Time Nick Message 02:12 rangi gmcharlt is on the case 02:16 dcook ? 02:16 rangi koha-community.org 02:16 wahanui i think koha-community.org is actually updated and right 02:23 dcook I would write the question mark again but I'll just smile and nod :p 03:19 dbs @wunder p3e2c6 03:19 huginn` dbs: The current temperature in Hwy 69 @ Richard Lake, Sudbury, Ontario is -15.0°C (10:10 PM EST on February 24, 2014). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: -999%. Dew Point: -60.0°C. Windchill: -20.0°C. Pressure: 30.03 in 1017 hPa (Rising). 03:20 dbs Humidity -999% eh? Wow. 03:21 dcook Sudbury, eh? 03:21 rangi @wunder nzwn 03:22 huginn` rangi: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 18.0°C (4:00 PM NZDT on February 25, 2014). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 64%. Dew Point: 11.0°C. Pressure: 30.06 in 1018 hPa (Steady). 03:22 dcook I probably knew that...that's neat 03:22 dcook @wunder sydney, australia 03:22 huginn` dcook: The current temperature in Sydney, New South Wales is 28.0°C (2:00 PM EST on February 25, 2014). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 42%. Dew Point: 14.0°C. Pressure: 29.95 in 1014 hPa (Steady). 03:22 dcook Sounds about right.. 03:22 dcook dbs: -15 wouldn't be so bad about now.. 03:23 * dbs occasionally wonders why he is in Sudbury, when he has been to Sydney and Brisbane... but he does love winter sports 03:24 dbs dcook: yes, I'll take cold over heat :) 03:24 dcook Some nice bush around Sudbury, iirc. Good times snow shoeing and sledding. 03:25 dcook Well, that was more so over by North Bay, but close enough 03:25 dbs dcook: I'm not into the motorized side of things, but there's great mountain biking trails around here which make me very happy 03:25 dbs close enough indeed :) 03:26 dcook Once upon a time, I thought about looking for library work around Sudbury. Glad to know there was good company! 03:29 dbs There are those who will argue about how "good" my company is :) 03:31 dcook Oh, I'm a total bastard, so no worries there :p 03:32 rangi i call bs 03:34 dcook Sometimes I forget that I'm remarkably open on Facebook 03:34 * dcook tries to hide all the cute cat photos 03:34 rangi heh 03:35 mtompset Greetings, #koha. 03:37 rangi aleisha++ # coming in to catalyst after school to sign off patches (just signed one off now) 03:37 aleisha :) 03:38 dcook aleisha++ 03:39 rangi @karma aleisha 03:39 huginn` rangi: Karma for "aleisha" has been increased 2 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 2. 03:43 dcook I should decrease my karma sometime or really start testing more... 03:57 ibeardslee excellent 03:58 ibeardslee not dcook decreasing his kamra, aleisha coming in to Catalyst 03:58 dcook hehe 03:58 dcook I wasn't going to jump to any conclusions :p 04:11 mtompset But jumping to conclusions is crazy fun, dcook. :P 05:26 mtompset dcook: signed off 11575 for you. :) 05:27 mtompset Greetings, cait. 05:27 cait morning 05:29 mtompset I tried duplicating your <TEST> problem, cait, and couldn't. Sorry. 05:29 cait ? 05:29 cait bug 11575 05:29 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=11575 normal, P5 - low, ---, dcook, Signed Off , OPACBaseURL sometimes set by ENV variable and not system preference 05:29 * mtompset tries to remember the bug cait posted. 05:30 mtompset 11741 05:30 cait bug 11741 05:30 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=11741 normal, P5 - low, ---, katrin.fischer, Needs Signoff , < > not displaying correctly in XSLT result list 05:30 cait did you use the -x switch for indexing? 05:30 mtompset Yes. 05:30 mtompset Though, I suspect it might be a data entry thing. 05:31 cait i don't think so 05:31 mtompset I entered the record under MASTER. 05:31 cait i did as well 05:31 cait tcohen could reproduce 05:31 mtompset and then switching to 3.6, 3.8, 3.10, 3.12, and 3.14 I couldnt get it to display weird. 05:31 mtompset There must be other system preferences to set. 05:34 cait you checked the results list? 05:34 mtompset Hmmm... I'll try again... I only had it going straight to detail, because I only have one seuss record. :) 05:35 cait detail is fine, it's only the result list 05:35 cait because both use data from diffrent places 05:35 cait but my patch probably won't make it in I think - it's patching it up, but not really fixing it 05:36 cait not fixing the problem at its source 05:36 cait i jsut got up... i might not make sense 05:37 mtompset cait: If the other fix line made it into master, then I think your two lines should. 05:37 cait well if it's signed off we can find out ;) 05:37 mtompset I'm trying to replicate the problem. 05:37 mtompset Since you said it was results. I just tweaked an entry. 05:37 mtompset And am reindexing. 05:41 mtompset okay... master ok... changing to 3.12.x 05:42 cait it's in master too, really 05:42 cait i filed the bug against master 05:42 mtompset Nope... works fine. 05:42 cait how did you reindex? 05:43 mtompset .../rebuild_zebra.pl -b -a -r -x -v 05:43 cait and you are looking at the result list? 05:43 mtompset I typed fancy into the search text box and clicked go. 05:43 mtompset and it's the first entry. 05:44 cait hmm interesting 05:44 wahanui interesting is sometimes good and sometimes bad 05:44 mtompset Is this Ubuntu or Debian? 05:44 cait tested on both 05:44 cait debian at work ubuntu at home 05:44 mtompset same problem on both? 05:44 cait yep 05:45 cait and tcohen could reproduce as well 05:45 mtompset which zebra version are you using? 05:45 cait i should ask him how far he got digging 05:46 cait what is packaged i would say 05:46 cait 2.0.44 05:47 * mtompset shrugs. 05:47 mtompset Well, I can't exactly sign something off based on my eyeball of it. 05:48 cait it's ok 05:48 cait just leave it 05:48 mtompset Just annoying, because it is a nice tiny patch which should be easy to sign off. 05:48 cait i am too tired to figure out what hte difference is really 05:48 cait i need at least another hour before my brain wakes up 05:49 dcook Thanks, mtompset :) 05:49 * dcook was going to test something but then got distracted by local stuff.. 05:55 cait thx for testing mtompset :) 05:55 mtompset I tried. 05:56 mtompset I've fallen a bit behind having been sick, and losing funding. :( 05:56 cait could you try a las tthing? leaving out the -a of the indexing command, just doing bibliographic? 06:00 mtompset Okay... leaving out -a. 06:01 mtompset how do I generate invoices? 06:01 cait you receive something in acq 06:01 cait the invoice will be generated then 06:03 mtompset ah... there. 06:04 mtompset reindexing stilll.... *whistles* 06:05 mtompset Nope... works fine. 06:05 cait ok 06:05 cait thx 06:09 mtompset the whole invoicing thing is a weird mess. 06:11 cait it's acq. 06:21 mtompset Well, okay... Acquisitions is a whole mess. 06:21 mtompset I know nothing of the process, and it was weird to see the things I had to click to get things to do what I needed for testing. 06:22 mtompset This can't possibly reflect the way people think about the process in reality. 06:29 dcook I don't suppose anyone has noticed this error: "Barcode generation failed for item %s with this error: %s" when trying to print barcode labels? 06:30 dcook mtompset: Acquisitions is always horrifying in libraries. 06:30 * dcook has worked in libraries for 7-8 years and has found this to always be true. 06:40 mtompset is report 21 one of the default sample reports? 06:40 dcook \o/ 06:41 * dcook dances around a bit 06:41 dcook Turns out that Code39 is case sensitive 06:41 dcook http://search.cpan.org/~larslund/PDF-Reuse-Barcode-0.05/Barcode.pm 06:41 * dcook was wondering why a "b" was causing an invalid character exception... 06:42 * magnuse waves 06:44 dcook yo, magnuse 06:44 dcook salut laurence 06:44 laurence salut dcook 06:46 cait mtompset: there are no default sample reports 06:46 mtompset Ah. Thanks, cait. 06:48 mtompset There... now, three more sign offs later, and I'll be back to where I'm happy. :) 06:50 mtompset magnuse: You snuck in! Greetings. 06:50 mtompset Greetings, laurence. 06:51 laurence hi mtompset 06:52 mtompset Hmmm... Julian Maurice is Biblibre too, right? 06:52 cait yep 06:53 dcook BibLibre is everywhere ;) 06:53 mtompset I was wondering if someone from Biblibre could take a look at my revision patch on bug 6874. It's the only thing needing sign off on this bug that seemed to start from Biblibre. 06:53 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6874 enhancement, P3, ---, julian.maurice, Needs Signoff , File upload in MARC 06:54 mtompset Because that would be a nice feature to get into 3.16 06:59 mtompset Anyways... I best take off. I need to get rest. 06:59 mtompset Have a great day, cait dcook magnuse laurence #koha. 07:31 cait running out of time :( 07:31 cait bye all 07:33 reiveune hello 07:33 wahanui hola, reiveune 07:59 Joubu salut 07:59 wahanui bidet, Joubu 08:02 * magnuse waves again 08:02 magnuse @wunder boo 08:02 huginn` magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 5.0°C (8:50 AM CET on February 25, 2014). Conditions: Light Rain Showers. Humidity: 93%. Dew Point: 4.0°C. Windchill: -1.0°C. Pressure: 29.56 in 1001 hPa (Rising). 08:02 magnuse @wunder marseille 08:02 huginn` magnuse: The current temperature in Realtor, CABRIES, France is 6.8°C (9:02 AM CET on February 25, 2014). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 70%. Dew Point: 2.0°C. Windchill: 5.0°C. Pressure: 30.06 in 1018 hPa (Steady). 08:03 matts hi ! 08:08 gaetan_B hello 08:12 magnuse bonjour! 08:13 magnuse dev meeting in 6 08:13 magnuse hours 08:13 magnuse 46 08:13 magnuse minutes 08:13 magnuse 12 08:13 magnuse seconds 08:14 magnuse oops 08:24 magnuse kia ora paul_p 08:26 paul_p 'morning magnuse 08:49 Joubu Marcel around? 08:59 huginn` GERMS!!!! 08:59 wahanui germs is probably http://i.imgur.com/5UfhT.jpg 08:59 cait good morning #koha and wahanui 09:03 ashimema mornin' cait et al' 09:05 ashimema worth putting the dev meeting in the motd? 09:06 ashimema #meetings 09:07 cait hm thnk it would be a good idea but not sure how to 09:15 gaetan_B which is the webservice koha actually uses to fetch covers from amazon ? 09:15 gaetan_B is it this one : 09:15 gaetan_B https://affiliate-program.amazon.com/gp/advertising/api/detail/main.html ? 09:18 clrh hello 09:18 wahanui hello, clrh 09:35 magnuse gaetan_B: i think koha just constructs URLs for the images, there is no webservice as such 09:37 magnuse gaetan_B: <img src="http://images.amazon.com/images/P/[% itemsloo.normalized_isbn %].01.TZZZZZZZ.jpg" alt="" class="thumbnail" /> 09:37 magnuse that sort of thing 09:54 gaetan_B magnuse: hmm so we're not using a webservice or an api ? 09:54 gaetan_B does that mean we are not sticking to any TOS ? 10:17 magnuse gaetan_B: i think it's sort of a grey area... 10:20 magnuse there is some discussion about it on bugzilla, but i'm not sure exactly where... 10:25 barton morning all 10:26 petter Hi Koha! 10:27 magnuse hiya petter! 10:27 magnuse and hiya barton 10:40 magnuse petter++ for the RFID RFC 10:41 petter thanks, I'm not sure there are any other libraries with needs like us.. 10:41 petter But hopefully if we get some feedback we can improve the solution 11:02 cait hi petter :) 11:02 cait when do you arrive on Sunday? 11:06 cait petter: I am trying to organize dinner für the early arriving 11:06 * ashimema now wishes he was arriving sunday too 11:07 cait just don't miss monday :) 11:09 ashimema I should be turning up before lunch on monday 11:10 magnuse just don't miss lunch ;-) 11:10 cait yep don't miss lunch 11:10 cait lebanese... i think 11:13 sophie_m hello #koha 11:16 sophie_m Are some of people coming to the hackfest in Marseille interested by a walk in "calanques" on Sunday (http://www.marvellous-provence.com/other-places/sights-and-attractions/calanques/south-of-marseille) 11:18 cait sophie_m: might be arriving too late for that :( 16:00 11:18 cait my coworker tells me every year to go there, but i never managed 11:21 sophie_m cait, paul_p is organising a diner where we can have a brief point of view. it's not the same as walking in it, but it could give you the taste for next time :-) 11:21 cait :) do you know when he plans to do it? 11:21 paul_p cait probably tuesday 11:22 cait ah hi paul_p 11:22 paul_p will send a mail soon about that 11:23 cait paul_p: :) 11:24 cait i think i might send a mail to the early arriving proposinga meeting point near the harbour 11:24 cait might be difficult to reach everyonee otherwise - but probably next week - ideas welcome :) 11:27 cait sophie_m: when where you thinking for the walk? 11:30 ashimema anyone know where the stuff that i a dev install ends up in kohaclone/installer/ goes in a packages install.. 11:30 ashimema I was hoping to grab some of the default sql to post fill frameworks on my system. 11:31 sophie_m cait: if possible in the morning. But I can adapt 11:32 cait ashimema: sorry, not sure about the paths there 11:32 ashimema hmm 11:32 cait sophie_m: my train is already booked, i won't be available before 5pm i think, so I will aim fo rmeeting people for dinner 11:33 sophie_m it's a good plan too :-) 11:33 cait :) 11:33 magnuse ashimema: try /usr/share/koha/intranet/cgi-bin/installer/ 11:34 magnuse (or e.g. "locate kohastructure.sql") 11:34 ashimema aha, magnuse your awsome. 11:34 ashimema of course.. why didn't I tihnk of 'locate' 11:34 magnuse :-) 11:34 ashimema brain is not good today. 11:34 * magnuse rewards himself with lunch 12:21 * barton thinks that cait should alias 'locate' to 'locait'. 12:21 cait lol 12:23 ashimema :) 12:36 tcohen morning #koha 12:36 tcohen hi cait 12:53 tcohen anyone with experience maintaining a CPAN module? 12:53 tcohen fredericd? 12:53 wahanui fredericd is probably translation manager for 3.8 13:04 cait hi tcohen :) 13:06 tcohen hi cait 13:07 tcohen i can reproduce your problem (< >) 13:07 tcohen and your patch does the job 13:07 tcohen a proper solution would break people's Koha use 13:07 tcohen do u want me to sign it? 13:08 cait tcohen: i would be happy if you did 13:08 nlegrand hey 13:09 cait and if you could add some notes why it would break other people't things 13:09 cait i think you know more about the problem right now than i do 13:09 tcohen we are doing ad-hoc fixes anyway 13:09 tcohen your patch doesn't hurt 13:10 cait yeah, we already do some ampersand magic 13:23 oleonard Hi #koha 13:27 magnuse kia ora oleonard NateC 13:36 cait tcohen: grs1! the missing piece! 13:36 cait i really was too tired this morning it seems :) 13:41 fridolin hie all 13:42 tcohen hi fridolin 13:42 fridolin i'm releasing today 3.14.04 13:43 tcohen fridolin++ 13:43 cait :) 13:45 ashimema fridolin++ 13:45 ashimema damn.. that means my list of tasks just grew ;) 13:45 tcohen heh 13:52 magnuse fridolin++ 13:52 magnuse dev meeting in 1 hour 7 minutes! 13:53 tcohen bug 11096 13:53 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=11096 major, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, Signed Off , Koha cannot retrieve big records from Zebra 13:53 * magnuse will miss the first one, maybe the second one too 14:03 francharb good morning #koha 14:04 magnuse hiya francharb and talljoy 14:04 talljoy hiya magnuse! 14:04 francharb o/ magnuse 14:04 druthb o/ 14:04 talljoy hi druthb! 14:05 cait magnuse: ooh :( 14:15 rhcl @wunder 64507 14:15 huginn` rhcl: The current temperature in Wyatt Park, St Joseph, Missouri is -6.3°C (8:15 AM CST on February 25, 2014). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 78%. Dew Point: -10.0°C. Windchill: -6.0°C. Pressure: 30.38 in 1029 hPa (Rising). 14:15 rhcl -63°C It's really cold out there. And it's snowing. 14:16 rhcl @wunder boo 14:16 huginn` rhcl: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 6.0°C (2:50 PM CET on February 25, 2014). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 76%. Dew Point: 2.0°C. Windchill: 2.0°C. Pressure: 29.83 in 1010 hPa (Rising). 14:16 rhcl Ah! Tropics in Norway. 14:16 rhcl @wunder konstanz 14:16 huginn` rhcl: The current temperature in Konstanz, Germany is 8.0°C (3:00 PM CET on February 25, 2014). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 48%. Dew Point: 1.0°C. Pressure: 29.99 in 1015 hPa (Falling). 14:16 oleonard @wunder 45701 14:16 huginn` oleonard: The current temperature in OHDOT 31-Athens County Garage, Athens, Ohio is -4.4°C (8:30 AM EST on February 25, 2014). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 88%. Dew Point: -6.0°C. Windchill: -4.0°C. Pressure: 30.17 in 1022 hPa (Falling). 14:17 rhcl @wunder houston, tx 14:17 huginn` rhcl: The current temperature in SE-Svc-Cntr, Houston, Texas is 18.1°C (8:17 AM CST on February 25, 2014). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 99%. Dew Point: 18.0°C. Pressure: 30.05 in 1018 hPa (Steady). Dense fog advisory in effect until 10 am CST this morning... 14:18 rhcl k-c.org is UP 14:19 tcohen yay! https://metacpan.org/pod/Memoize::Memcached 14:19 magnuse yeah, it sure is warm up here 14:19 rhcl :) 14:20 magnuse we had snow on saturday and sunday, but now it's all gone 14:20 magnuse weekend snow - i can live with that :-) 14:21 ashimema tcohen++ 14:22 ashimema didn't realise you maintained memoize? 14:22 tcohen i've just started heh 14:22 tcohen the owner gave me the rights to do it 14:22 tcohen so i've just patched an old deprecation bug it had 14:25 jenkins_koha Starting build #178 for job Koha_3.12.x (previous build: SUCCESS) 14:27 Joubu y 14:28 cait hi Joubu :) 14:28 tcohen hi Joubu 14:29 Joubu I tested my 'y' key, it works great 14:29 tcohen i can confirm that Joubu 14:29 oleonard :) 14:30 Joubu thanks tcohen! 14:30 Joubu ;) 14:30 ashimema nice work! tcohen++ again 14:32 oleonard Shouldn't I be able to view the course reserves page even if I don't have permission to edit? 14:34 wajasu i think there is a syspref to turn it on. 14:36 cait y key passed QA :) 14:36 cait oleonard: if there is a sep permission, I'd think so 14:37 tcohen Joubu: hopefully gmcharlt will push it and we'll cherry-pick it for the stable keyboards 14:37 wajasu UseCourseReserves in circ preferences 14:37 oleonard wajasu: Right. If UseCourseReserves is enabled I would think one would be able to access course reserves even without permission to edit/delete/manage 14:38 magnuse tcohen++ 14:38 gmcharlt @quote random 14:38 huginn` gmcharlt: Quote #43: "< Ropuch> Uh - beware of tea: it can burn your throat" (added by chris at 08:35 AM, October 30, 2009) 14:44 marcelr hi #koha 14:44 tcohen gmcharlt: is cpan.org slow to update from what is uploaded to pause? 14:44 Joubu oleonard: did you understand my comment on 11718? I'm not sure it is understandable... 14:45 gmcharlt tcohen: I've seen it take anywhere between 1 and 4 hours 14:45 gmcharlt meeting in 15 minutes 14:45 tcohen oh, thanks gmcharlt. I should be patient then 14:45 tcohen :-D 14:45 oleonard Yes Joubu 14:46 Joubu oleonard: cool :) 14:46 wajasu oleonard: so you don't have read access as a non superlibrarian? i have access in the OPAC to view as a Patron(PT) without the special add/edit/delete perms 14:46 cait wajasu: I think oleonad meant the staff side 14:46 oleonard wajasu: I'm only talking about the staff client 14:51 Joubu marcelr++ for the qa feedback on bug 9016! 14:51 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9016 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Signed Off , Multi transport types for notices 14:51 oleonard Joubu: Note that I didn't remove sorting from any columns in my patch for Bug 11718, I only added sorting on creation date 14:51 marcelr hi Joubu: will return to that later on.. :) 14:51 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=11718 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, ASSIGNED , Use new DataTables include in reports templates 14:52 wajasu did anyone bake cookies for the meeting? 14:53 * oleonard has Girl Scout cookies 14:53 cait oleonard: with lemon? 14:53 cait druthb has some with lemon.... 14:53 oleonard I don't think I have any of those 14:53 cait what do you have? 14:54 gmcharlt Joubu: oleonard: marcelr: please note the follow-up on bug 10865 14:54 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10865 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, In Discussion , Don't show list permissions when adding public lists/sharing lists is not allowed 14:55 gmcharlt and, apparently, 18065 ;) 14:55 marcelr hi gmcharlt: will have a look soon 14:55 jenkins_koha Project Koha_3.12.x build #178: SUCCESS in 33 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_3.12.x/178/ 14:55 jenkins_koha * Tomas Cohen Arazi: Update release notes for 3.12.11 release 14:55 jenkins_koha * Bernardo Gonzalez Kriegel: Translation updates for 3.12.11 release 14:55 jenkins_koha * Tomas Cohen Arazi: Increment version for 3.12.11 release 14:55 marcelr bug 18065 ? too high.. 14:55 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=18065 was not found. 14:56 gmcharlt marcelr: yeah, I just noticed a typo in my follow-up patch to 10865, hence the joke about 18065 14:56 oleonard cait: Mint, peanut butter, and coconut cookies 14:56 marcelr gmcharlt: bug 10363 likes your comments too 14:56 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10363 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Failed QA , There is no package for authorised values. 14:56 cait mmmh coconut 14:57 cait i think we are ready for the meeting 14:57 marcelr koffie 14:57 ashimema you've made me hungry now cait. 14:57 cait :P 14:57 marcelr =coffee 14:57 * cait blames oleonard 14:57 marcelr good start 14:58 gmcharlt ok, may as well begin 14:59 gmcharlt #startmeeting Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 15:00 UTC 14:59 huginn` Meeting started Tue Feb 25 14:59:17 2014 UTC. The chair is gmcharlt. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 14:59 huginn` Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 14:59 huginn` The meeting name has been set to 'koha_dev_meeting__25_february_2014_15_00_utc' 14:59 gmcharlt #info Agenda http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Developers_IRC_Meeting,_February_25,_2014 14:59 gmcharlt #topic Introductions 14:59 wahanui #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient 14:59 oleonard #info Owen Leonard, Athens County Public Libraries 14:59 marcelr #info Marcel de Rooy, Netherlands 14:59 gmcharlt #info gmcharlt = Galen Charlton, 3.16 RM, Equinox, USA 15:00 paul_p #info Paul Poulain, BibLibre 15:00 ashimema #info Martin Renvoize, PTFS Europe 15:00 Joubu #info Jonathan Druart, BibLibre, France 15:00 ColinC #info Colin Campbell PTFS-Europe 15:00 cait #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ 15:00 rhcl #info rhcl = Greg Lawson, Rolling Hills Consolidated Library -ro 15:00 fredericd #info Frédéric Demians, Tamil 15:01 thd #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City 15:01 jajm #info Julian Maurice, BibLibre, France 15:02 matts #info Matthias Meusburger, Biblibre, France 15:02 slef #info MJ Ray, software.coop, England 15:03 gmcharlt OK, folks can continue to chime in as they arrive 15:03 gmcharlt first, some annouceents 15:03 gmcharlt #topic Announcements 15:04 gmcharlt #info gmcharlt will be clearing the passed QA queue prior to the beginning of the hackfest in Marseille 15:04 cait gmcharlt++ :) 15:04 gmcharlt that means that I'm committing to push (or if need be in certain cases, reject) everything targetted for master by then 15:04 ashimema gmcharlt++ 15:04 gmcharlt to give a clear slate 15:05 paul_p gmcharlt++ 15:05 slef #info the hackfest in Marseille is 10-14 March 15:05 gmcharlt after discussing this with cait, I'd like to request that for the next week, that QA team members focus on (1) needs-signoff and (2) kitten-rescue 15:05 paul_p gmcharlt what to you mean by "targetted for master" ? 15:05 tcohen #info Tomas Cohen Arazi, Universidad Nacional de Cordoba 15:05 gmcharlt paul_p: there are one or two in passed-QA that are targetted for maintenance branches 15:06 marcelr no further new qa's you mean? 15:06 gmcharlt a 3.8.x one, in fact, although I think khall tried applying it but ran into trouble with it 15:06 gmcharlt not sure of the details 15:06 gmcharlt marcelr: yes - let's say end of day tomorrow as a cutoff for new passed QA if you're in the middle of something? 15:06 cait gmcharlt: I think continuing on things you are in the midst of should be ok, but not starting on new patches? 15:06 huginn` New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 11803: use $dbh consistently in _koha_modify_item <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=a07b32f4f9090ba0c50c3e510f0be56b8805faeb> 15:07 gmcharlt are there any other announcements folks wish to make at this time? 15:07 cait i thik we can add another #agreed for the cutoff :) 15:07 cait or info 15:07 gmcharlt cait: go for it 15:08 cait #info end of tomorrow will be cutoff for new passed QA until the hackfest in Marseille, QA team to focus on sign offs and kitten rescue 15:08 paul_p gmcharlt = do you think you'll have time to deal with the 84 waiting patches before the hackfest ? 15:08 gmcharlt paul_p: it's going to be my sole focus for Koha work 15:08 jcamins #info Jared Camins-Esakov, C & P Bibliography Services 15:08 paul_p gmcharlt = would it be wise to start by new feature/enh ? so hackfest participant can concentrate on testing master ? 15:08 gmcharlt (unless security issues intervene) 15:09 gmcharlt paul_p: I'm going to be doing the small fry first, then go to enh 15:09 gmcharlt enh/new 15:10 gmcharlt i.e., oleonard's DataTables stuff won't take much time in any event 15:10 gmcharlt btw 15:10 jenkins_koha Starting build #362 for job master_maria (previous build: SUCCESS) 15:10 gmcharlt oleonard++ # cleanup wizard 15:10 cait oleonard++ 15:10 gmcharlt the next thing I'm going to do is to toss out some general questions 15:10 cait #thx for adding consistency to everything 15:10 gmcharlt they do *not* require an immediate response 15:11 gmcharlt #topic RM questions 15:11 gmcharlt #info What is the state of UNIMARC/DOM Zebra indexing? Are UNIMARC users ready to adopt it? 15:11 gmcharlt #info How many folks are using QueryParser in production? 15:12 gmcharlt #info Is deprecating GRS-1 a viable option for 3.16? 15:12 paul_p gmcharlt = I'll add the unimarc topic for the hackfest. We will have many french unimarc librarians at hand to test ;-) 15:12 gmcharlt paul_p++ 15:12 marcelr anyone using SRU with DOM indexing ? 15:12 cait paul_p: my impression was there are still some bugs to shake out, but might not be hard to fix 15:12 gmcharlt #agreed paul_p will add discussion/testing of UNIMARC Zebra-DOM to Marseille hackfest 15:12 ashimema gmcharlt, I'd love to see GRS-1 go the way of the dodo. 15:13 jenkins_koha Starting build #1644 for job Koha_master (previous build: SUCCESS) 15:13 gmcharlt #info anyone using SRU with DOM indexing ? 15:13 ashimema marcelr, we have a few customers using SRU with DOM.. i believe 15:13 gmcharlt marcelr: are you seeing any issues with it? 15:13 tcohen SRU+DOM+UNIMARC? 15:13 marcelr i tried some time ago and it did not work at that time (out of the box or so) 15:13 ashimema not unimark from us. 15:14 ashimema I believe I had to modify at least one config file to get it outputting a sensible format.. it was outputting plain indexes to start with. 15:14 gmcharlt #info Is anybody actively testing or developing on Debian Jessie at the moment? 15:14 cait marcelr: I think there might have been a fix for that, worth trying again maybe 15:14 ashimema i can't remember the details.. it was a while ago and hasn't come up again since 15:14 paul_p gmcharlt = added to workshop list : "DOM indexing in UNIMARC We must test DOM indexing in UNIMARC to see if GRS-1 can be deprecated. Some patches pushed" 15:14 gmcharlt paul_p++ 15:14 wajasu should ICU be the default oor such, if or when GRS1 goes away? or is there search value in CHR? 15:15 cait I'd be for ICU by default 15:15 cait a lot of libraries stumble on that 15:15 paul_p ICU by default++ 15:15 ashimema icu for default... ++ 15:15 ColinC One issue with Jessie may be that Queryparser's tests fail on newer perls 15:15 tcohen +1 15:15 gmcharlt is there a singular ICU config that folks like? 15:15 cait OpacSuppression + Queryparser don't work, that's kind of a blocker for the library that we tested it with 15:15 gmcharlt or shoudl we consider going a bit further to generate language-of-record specific configs that folks can use sysprefs to select? 15:16 paul_p Franziska = hello. Just seen your email now. happy to see that you could fix the problem to join us 15:16 gmcharlt ColinC: indeed - it's heavily depending on hash sort order, for some reason 15:17 cait paul_p: maybe testing QueryParser could also be a topic for the hackfest? 15:17 gmcharlt also - folks, please feel free to chime in on proposing these sorts of architectural/deprecation/compatbility questions now 15:18 ashimema testing QueryParser has been on my todo list for a while now, I'de be happy chipping in testing at hackfest should it become a topic 15:18 Franziska Hello from Koha Gruppo Italiano - Rome 15:18 cait the librarian testing force is strong at the hackfest usually 15:18 cait they have done some great testing int he past, also with plack 15:18 tcohen gmcharlt: do u think 11096 could be ready for 3.16? 15:18 marcelr bug 11096 15:18 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=11096 major, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, Signed Off , Koha cannot retrieve big records from Zebra 15:19 gmcharlt #info is there a reasonable Plack configuration that we could include in 3.16, and encourage as a first-class install option? 15:19 gmcharlt tcohen: in a word, yes 15:19 cait gmcharlt: i think most use the out of the box icu now, but there is a wiki page on how to tweak it for arabic 15:20 cait gmcharlt: we had added some additional rules for umlaut indexing in the past, not sure how flexible configuration can be made here 15:20 jcamins I use the out-of-the-box configuration. 15:20 jcamins (for ICU, FWIW) 15:20 gmcharlt cait: OK, I"m going to tweet a request for folks to add their custom ICU configs to the wiki page 15:20 ashimema we use out of the box icu configs in lots of places. 15:21 ColinC ICU out of the box handles arabic cyrillic and chinese fairly well 15:21 cait gmcharlt: can we add icu by default as a question? or did i miss it? 15:21 ashimema gmcharlt.. I spent a fair bit of time testing the Plack during install bug on bugzilla.. It had a few issues. 15:21 clrh #info Claire Hernandez, BibLibre, France (late sorry) 15:22 paul_p gmcharlt = we have a working plack configuration at SAN-OP 15:22 gmcharlt ashimema: did you write up the issues? 15:22 jcamins I use ICU mostly for Russian, Arabic, and Hebrew. 15:22 gmcharlt paul_p: did you write up the config anywhere? 15:22 cait we use it with hebrew, out of the box icu, no complaints so far 15:23 paul_p for both OPAC & staff. We faced one problem with it though = we restarted plack every night, and sometimes, it stopped badly, and did not restart 15:23 gmcharlt all: did you write up the FOO anywhere? ;) 15:23 ashimema bug 9316 15:23 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9316 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Needs Signoff , Add Nginx install options with plack 15:23 paul_p gmcharlt = not sure, will check & wiki-fy it 15:23 gmcharlt ashimema: thanks 15:24 paul_p both plack config & nightly crontab script 15:24 ashimema I need to look into it again.. not checked for a while.. i'll try to take a look between this meet and the next ;) 15:24 cait #info Can we make ICU indexing default for new installations? 15:24 ashimema nothing major.. just minor gripes really. 15:24 cait so it doesn't get lost :) 15:24 ashimema from memory 15:25 gmcharlt OK, I'm going to try to keep the meeting to an hour, so I'm going to move on 15:25 gmcharlt #topic ElasticSearch 15:25 gmcharlt it looks like we have two different ElasticSearch projects going on 15:25 gmcharlt and ... for obvious reasons it would be great if the efforts were coordinated 15:25 paul_p Franziska = look, it's for you now !!! 15:26 gmcharlt I imagine the NZers will be participating in the second version of this meeting today, of coruse 15:26 paul_p gmcharlt = what do you mean by "2 projects going on" ? 15:26 Franziska Great! Stefano will present the project in Marseille. Please join us on March 11th 15:27 ashimema Agreed, we need some collaboration going on this. 15:27 paul_p because what italians announced is not -yet- a project with code. It's a project to see how things could/should be done, and -try to- fund it 15:27 Franziska Additional information will be available on http://www.kohagruppoitaliano.moonfruit.com/ shortly 15:27 paul_p so it's not too late to coordinate. It's the perfect timing I think. 15:27 ashimema Franziska, are you in touch with Chris et al? 15:28 paul_p gmcharlt = the "other" ES project is made by chris & sponsored by bywater, isn't it ? 15:28 gmcharlt yes 15:28 Franziska No not yet, but we really hope to work with him on this project 15:28 gmcharlt and since it has code developing, it's going to set the tone 15:28 gmcharlt so Franziska, I *strongly* encourage you to get in touch with Chris ASAP 15:29 paul_p gmcharlt = so I hope things will be coordinated, because the "italian" project have American University in Rome, that is a ByWater customer ! 15:29 Franziska Our goal is to help the community to make it happen 15:29 cait Franziska: being in NZ they won't make it to the hackfest in Marseille 15:30 gmcharlt they also tend to use IRC a lot; I recommend that you hang out in #koha 15:30 Franziska we are not assisted by Bywater...Stefano is in charge of our catalog 15:30 cait I think it would be great to see this worked out - funding and development :) 15:30 Franziska we are independent. Bywater is in charge of the American Academy's catalog. 15:30 gmcharlt right 15:31 paul_p Franziska oups, sorry, failed once again between AAR and AUR ... 15:31 paul_p I'll be successful one day... (maybe not this year :D :D ) 15:31 gmcharlt paul_p: then we'll throw more acronyms at you 15:31 gmcharlt just to keep you on your toes ;) 15:31 Franziska For us it is a important to work out the way between funding and development 15:32 paul_p ABR ? ACR ? ADR ? AER ? 15:32 cait rangi left a note on the agenda - saying they will try to have something to play with for the hackfest 15:32 gmcharlt that should help 15:32 cait maybe this can help see where things are going and help getting started on coordination 15:32 Franziska what we essentially do is to promote Koha in Italy 15:33 paul_p what annoys me is that it seems that the work we made on solr won't be re-used at all. And I think/feel it's a shame. 15:33 paul_p (energy lost) 15:33 paul_p (not because we wrote it) 15:33 Franziska Sorry, my mistake - the promotion goes over the world 15:33 marcelr paul_p couldn't that be rescued somehow? 15:33 clrh marcelr: things are pushed in master 15:34 clrh marcelr: there is a base to wrote more things on many search engin as you want... 15:34 ashimema Franziska... do you guys have plans for A) Where the money should be coming from and B) What developers your hoping to employ to do the work. I'm just thinking it should probably go to one of the bigger players already working in searhc for koha, as aposed to somone new implimenting in yet another way.. 15:34 ashimema basically what paul_p just said ;) 15:35 Franziska The community has to choose amoung Solr and ElasticSearch 15:35 paul_p marcelr = I feel it could, I sent an email to rangi about that, and got no feedback. 15:35 marcelr unfortunate 15:36 paul_p Franziska = the best would be to have an search layer independant from any search engine. So we can plug ES, Solr, Zebra, whatever 15:36 gmcharlt I think it's fair to say that there's been an long-running technical disagreement about that. There's no need to rehash it now, but I expect that once the ES stuff for testing at Hackfest is available, it may clarify things 15:36 cait also people from ByWater will be there 15:37 cait who have been working with Catalyst IT to make it happen 15:37 paul_p gmcharlt which one ? not clear to me (except the fact that we started to REPLACE zebra by solr, and the community wanted to have a CHOICE) 15:37 Franziska Koha Gruppo Italiano has no conflict with choice 15:38 paul_p gmcharlt and maybe another one with Moose, but not worth forgetting everything we made I think 15:38 thd paul_p: Could some of BibLibre work on the user interface for user configuratâ€ion of indexing not be taken from the Solr/Lucene work and added to Elastic Search. 15:38 thd ? 15:39 paul_p thd = I really don't know. Everything is in master, we're open to questions. 15:39 clrh thd: erf do not understand the question >< 15:39 gmcharlt I actually think that's going to be a big question for 3.16 or possibily 3.18 -- how much of the Koha::SearchEngine stuff will remain 15:39 Joubu thd: the Solr config page (the one in master) can be used for ES too. 15:40 gmcharlt because, ATM, it's code that isn't actively used 15:40 paul_p right. 15:40 paul_p I don' tthink it's a reachable goal for 3.16 15:40 paul_p for 3.18, it should be a goal. 15:41 cait maybe we could do experimental 15:41 gmcharlt I'm actually hoping that the question gets settled by 3.16 - at least in terms of our having a pretty good idea about what parts will be staying in for the long run 15:41 cait if it doesn't break anything, nto sure how far they are 15:41 thd The issue would be for a librarian interface to control how the indexing functions. 15:41 cait oh, i misunderstood... i thought elastic search going in 15:41 cait not reading fast enough 15:41 gmcharlt considering that two piece of completely dead code contributed to the security release recently -- I'm feeling a bit less lenient about keeping in code that isn't used 15:42 gmcharlt cait: we'll see about when ES goes in - it's a bit too early to know for sure 15:42 gmcharlt *however* - I think we've exhausted this topic for now until the later meeting 15:42 gmcharlt so going to move on 15:42 slef I've some of the same concerns about ES as Solr. It's another Java app so another complication for Koha servers. 15:43 gmcharlt yeah, I think there will be a place for fast, self-contained search engines for a while yet 15:43 gmcharlt #topic DBIx::Class 15:44 gmcharlt so I think one of the issues here is this 15:44 gmcharlt how much abstraction to use 15:44 wajasu can we get the entire DB API coded in a test for DBIx and possibly reconcile historical names (borrower vs member, issue vs ...) Then code won't bubble that up into the UI with varying concepts 15:44 gmcharlt the current DBIC suppport already provides basic data access classes 15:45 gmcharlt my current thinking is that for simple things, the DBIC schema classes can safely be used directly 15:45 gmcharlt and that we should interpose container classes only when needed 15:45 gmcharlt for example - the concept of a bib is one that I think lends itself to such an intermediate class 15:46 gmcharlt particularly since we're contemplating doing things like merging biblio and biblioitems 15:46 ColinC They are intended to give you usuable objects 15:46 paul_p gmcharlt my counter comment is "how will anyone know what it 'simple' and what is not" ? for newbies, won't it be less readable ? 15:46 gmcharlt but things like authorised values? I see less of a reason write wrapper classes 15:46 gmcharlt (though more scope to add methods to the base DBIC schema class if called for) 15:47 paul_p having the same container schema everywhere may be a little bit boring to write, but changes nothing to readability or efficiency, and will be clearer 15:47 marcelr lots of relative empty classes 15:47 paul_p and what if one day something simple become no more simple ? 15:47 marcelr create a class 15:47 cait more code to maintain 15:47 gmcharlt yes, piling on more code to maintain is not my preference 15:48 gmcharlt and too many layers of delegation can impose a performance penalty 15:48 paul_p gmcharlt the perf penalty is small (and tiny with plack) 15:48 Joubu In my opinion, if the code is easy to understand, it is not a problem to have more code 15:48 ColinC would be a good idea to do some concentrated work on an area of the application and learn a bit 15:49 Joubu Is there already an example on how to implement an OO class using DBIC into Koha? 15:49 gmcharlt paul_p: I do agree, however, that some syntactical sugar would be nice to get a schema class with less typing would be nice 15:49 gmcharlt schema object, rather 15:49 gmcharlt Joubu: well, the basic DBIC objects aren't hard to understand 15:50 Franziska I am leaving the meeting,Thank you for your attention. 15:50 gmcharlt so I don't per se see that more layers improve readability /necessarily/ 15:50 gmcharlt I could be swayed by a specific counter-example 15:51 gmcharlt ColinC: yeah, that seems sensible 15:51 Joubu gmcharlt: I already submit propositions and all have been rejected, I just would like someone to show me how to do 15:51 Joubu Moreover, should we (QA team) authorize to use DBIC directly in pl scripts, or only in packages in the Koha namespace? 15:51 wajasu but should we provide getRenewal vs. ??? wrap only were needed. if we write good tests for the data access "API", we can NYTProf and such and make it solid the layer testable. 15:51 cait I think maybe some notes, good practice examples ont he wiki would help to clear confusion 15:52 marcelr Joubu i think we wanted to use them from the Koha namespace? 15:52 cait the RFC on the wiki is not quite what we have right now I think 15:52 marcelr only 15:52 ColinC The logic would be to use the objects directly in .pl scripts DBIC does the hiding of DBI for you 15:52 Joubu marcelr: it is not everybody's opinion 15:52 gmcharlt Joubu: IMO, direct use of DBIC in scripts is fine 15:52 marcelr ColinC: now we move them to modules 15:53 vfernandes hi :) 15:53 marcelr but it is just theory; in many cases you will need the module 15:53 gmcharlt one second, digging up an example of something 15:53 paul_p examlpe++ 15:53 ColinC adding an extra layer adds a place to add complucations and bugs 15:54 vfernandes one question: i have a koha installation with 5 libraries... it's possible to block the user access to only some of that libraries? 15:54 marcelr this extra layer is now in C4? 15:54 Joubu gmcharlt: yes, I know :) But I disagree :) 15:54 cait vfernandes: can you waita bit longer? we are currently havign a meeting and it's hard to concentrate on 2 things atonce :) 15:54 vfernandes sorry :) 15:56 gmcharlt ok, didn't find what I was looking for 15:56 gmcharlt however, I agree with the general point that we need specific examples of recommended usage 15:56 marcelr the move from C4 to Koha is now interfering with the DBICifying 15:56 gmcharlt so I'll add that as a topic the March 5 meeting and work some up 15:56 ColinC how? 15:56 cait marcelr: there is not so much in Koha yet, maybe the newer ones could just use it? 15:57 cait marcelr: when we need one that is 15:57 gmcharlt #action gmcharlt will work on some DBIC examples; requests others to experiment as well 15:57 marcelr should we refrain from adding DBIC into C4 ? 15:57 wajasu for what was generated in master, did someone get that "work around" DBIC_????? flag out and was the schema adjusted to make DBIC happy (NULL foreign keys)? 15:58 ashimema i feel the line between C4 and Koha has become rather hazy at best.. I often find myself a bit confused as to where something should go now. 15:58 gmcharlt wajasu: yes 15:58 wajasu great 15:58 marcelr true and it will probably stay for some time :) 15:58 cait i feel new modules into Koha ideally, but harder to tell when just adding new bits and pieces 15:59 ColinC I think the difference is Koha modules have less history to support the are meant to be new thought 16:00 Joubu gmcharlt: Note: I encountered an issue on writing UT for bug 8007 (cf patch UT). The transaction does not work, we use 2 handlers on the same DB 16:00 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8007 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Discharge management 16:00 marcelr i also submitted a report this afternoon on some warnings on the connect bug 11835 16:00 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=11835 normal, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Warnings from DBIx about Moo::_Utils and Class::XSAccessor in Koha::Schema 16:03 cait we are getting close to the hour now - maybe we need to talk about having another meeting/actions? 16:04 gmcharlt indeed 16:04 gmcharlt but very breifly, first 16:04 wajasu i did successfully code tests with http://search.cpan.org/~chisel/Test-DBIx-Class-Schema-1.0.2/lib/Test/DBIx/Class/Schema.pm 16:04 gmcharlt #topic Large enhancements 16:04 gmcharlt here's what I know of 16:04 gmcharlt #info Rancor (cataloging editor) 16:04 gmcharlt #info ElasticSearch 16:04 gmcharlt what else? 16:04 cait hm Accounts rewrite? 16:04 wajasu account rewrite 16:05 paul_p gmcharlt = how do you define "large" ? 16:05 cait #info Accounts rewrite 16:05 Joubu I have a lot of "large" enh in the queue 16:05 gmcharlt paul_p: in this case, things that would require special effort to for signoff and QA by their nature 16:06 marcelr when is the cutoff date? 16:06 cait maybe we can add the multi transports as well 16:06 Joubu bug 7180 16:06 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7180 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Signed Off , Order from staged file improvements 16:06 Joubu bug 9016 16:06 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9016 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Signed Off , Multi transport types for notices 16:06 bag morning 16:06 wahanui hmmm... morning is a state of cat 16:06 Joubu bug 10212 16:06 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10212 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Signed Off , Columns configuration for tables 16:06 Joubu the history search 16:07 Joubu bug 10858 16:07 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10858 new feature, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Signed Off , Browse selected biblios 16:07 cait Joubu: big enhancements, but bit smaller than the other 3 i think, thankfully 16:07 marcelr Joubu: bug 10858 will have my attention again very soon 16:07 cait smaller is good in that case 16:07 marcelr hopefully before end of tomorrow :) 16:07 Joubu cait: yes but they require special effort for so and qa 16:08 jenkins_koha Project master_maria build #362: SUCCESS in 1 hr 0 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/master_maria/362/ 16:08 jenkins_koha Marcel de Rooy: Bug 11803: use $dbh consistently in _koha_modify_item 16:08 thd What is involved in a 'special effort' for signoff? What distinguishes a 'special effort'? 16:08 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=11803 trivial, P5 - low, ---, m.de.rooy, Pushed to Master , Consistent use of $dbh in _koha_modify_item 16:08 Joubu bug 9011 is quite large too 16:08 gmcharlt marcelr: I'm not setting a firm cutoff date just yet, but will do so by the March 5 meeting 16:08 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9011 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, In Discussion , Add the ability to store the last patron to return an item 16:08 Joubu bug 9811 16:08 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9811 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Patrons search improvements 16:08 marcelr gmcharlt: ok 16:08 cait thd: everything gets special effort from the QA team ;) 16:08 marcelr :) 16:08 wajasu what about considering enduser migration from squeeze to wheezy. or mysql vs postgres vs mariadb 16:08 gmcharlt thd: it's a bit of a gut feeling 16:08 cait thd: but some things are harder, like touching lots of functionality, sensitive spots like holds, etc 16:09 marcelr wajasu: isn't that linked to the dbic efforts.. 16:09 gmcharlt but basically, something that isn't just an incremental additional to existing functionality 16:09 cait gmcharlt: i think another thing we need to fix eventually is the apache configuration for the new apache version 16:09 gmcharlt most of Joubu's aren't quite so "large" 16:09 gmcharlt (they're important, though, I'm not trying to minimize that) 16:10 gmcharlt wajasu: I don't know of any particular blockers for folks to upgrade to Wheezy 16:10 gmcharlt and they should do so soon, as Squeeze will be going away 16:10 gmcharlt MariaDB is already a valid option, IMO 16:10 clrh gmcharlt: not sure to understand what you are waiting for with this topic 16:10 wajasu I am running mariadb on archlinux now so can test that. 16:10 ashimema wajasu, we've updated lots of squeeze to wheezy.. none had any issues. 16:10 gmcharlt as far as Pg, it will be more better in 3.16, but I don't expect it to be a first-class option prior to 3.18 at the earliest 16:11 gmcharlt clrh: what I"m looking for is this, basically 16:11 cait we are using wheezy, i just checked 16:11 gmcharlt #info what big Koha dev projects have people been working on that they might like to get included soon, that they haven't really publicized or made avaialble for early testing 16:12 gmcharlt and I think we can leave it at that 16:12 gmcharlt #topic Follow-up 16:12 gmcharlt #info There will be a second running of today's meeting at 21:00 UTC 16:12 gmcharlt as far as follow-up, are folks amenable to an IRC meeting during hackfest? 16:12 ashimema I've been working on a refactoring of the patron import tools.. to introduce a command line version.. but it's not close to ready yet.. 16:13 cait i think if it's not too late and interfering with lunch... 16:13 gmcharlt :) 16:13 wajasu i want to add font configuration support for unicode fonts that support many languages like gentium/SIL and that can be used to print labels (TTF) as dobrivica is promoting. 16:13 ashimema gmcharlt.. a followup during hackfest sounds like a pretty good idea. 16:13 gmcharlt paul_p: what say you? 16:15 wajasu aybe for plack it might be doable to support/use systemd for servers, and that might give us a watchdog to restart our server if it crashes. 16:15 paul_p sorry, was with my kids. reading the logs... 16:15 gmcharlt the immediate question is my proposal to hold a follow-up dev IRC meeting during hackfest 16:15 paul_p yep, another meeting diring the hackfest is a good idea 16:15 gmcharlt maybe include Google Hangout and the like as an option 16:16 gmcharlt are there any days that are best during hackfest? 16:16 Joubu ashimema: we have worked on that too 16:16 Joubu (patron import tools) 16:16 ashimema question: is anyone working towards bug 8190 going in? 16:16 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8190 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Passed QA , Add a logging module to Koha 16:16 paul_p gmcharlt HG++, we use it all the time, 16:16 paul_p gmcharlt not monday nor friday. I would say wed 16:16 paul_p monday = not everybody here. friday= some already left. 16:17 paul_p tuesday = let's start 16:17 paul_p wed or thu = we're full power :D 16:17 ashimema Joubu.. we should chat.. I've been following the various open bugs and merging in stuff.. but my work is high refactoring so didn't want to publicise it untill at least some of it works ;) 16:17 gmcharlt does 15:00 UTC on 12 March work, then? 16:17 clrh ashimema: passed qa for 8 months what are you looking for ? Joubu worked on this bz 16:17 gmcharlt ashimema: Joubu: great, that's exactly the sort of thing I want to see 16:18 cait paul_p: wed or thu sound good to me too 16:18 matts ashimema, do you already have a BZ for that work ? 16:18 gmcharlt clrh: and to be blunt - it needs work; IMO a logging module that does not include syslog support right away, and reinvents standard CPAN modules, was problematic 16:19 ashimema not yet.. I'll put one up soon iminently.. was one of those things.. I started playing around with it and got lost in the details. 16:19 Joubu gmcharlt: so the status is failed qa? 16:19 clrh gmcharlt: but it adds value no ? 16:19 gmcharlt Joubu: IMO yes, and I apologize for not being more direct about it 16:20 ashimema gmcharlt, clrh: I'd love to see some decent logging in koha.. my recollection was that gmcharlt was going to post an counter proposal.. 16:20 wajasu i was looking at Badger maybe Badger::Log 16:20 Joubu gmcharlt: I didn't reinvent CPAN module, I used Log::LogLite anyway 16:20 gmcharlt clrh: adding value isn't the only criteria 16:20 gmcharlt ashimema: yes; time has gotten away form me 16:20 clrh gmcharlt: depends the point of view 16:20 ashimema okies.. no worries.. jsut wondered on status and thought today a good time to give it a nudge ;) 16:21 gmcharlt clrh: long-term supportability matters too, and in this case, there are better ways to do it 16:21 marcelr sounds more like In Discussion than Failed QA 16:21 cait clrh: i think the statsu shoudl probably have been In Discussion 16:21 Joubu gmcharlt: In my opinion, if a patch improves the existing code/behavior, it is worth pushing it. 16:21 cait as a lot of people have expressed concerns on the implementation 16:21 clrh for me adding value for a user a developper is time won - if it is better than today, what is the problem ? 16:21 Joubu gmcharlt: if it is not perfect, it could be improve later 16:21 ashimema too many ways to skin a cat. 16:21 gmcharlt Joubu: this is where we have a disagreement 16:22 gmcharlt please consider the concept of technical debt 16:22 wajasu we have alot of debt 16:22 marcelr :) 16:22 gmcharlt I woudl argue that we've incurred much more of it than we need to because of being a bit too willing to push anything that reaches us 16:22 ashimema that we do.. 16:22 gmcharlt but I recognize that there's a balance 16:22 gmcharlt and room for valid disagreement 16:22 thd gmcharlt: What is mnt by 'technical debt'? 16:22 Joubu gmcharlt: I am quite reactive, I think. And I can provide follow-up quickly if it is needed. It is really hard to maintain 80 patches and to rebase them every weeks. 16:23 ashimema sorry.. didn't mean to start a war ;) 16:23 thd s/ment/meant/ 16:23 gmcharlt thd: bascially, deferred technical maintenance on a codebase 16:23 gmcharlt the C4 => Koha switch is an example of a project to try to pay off some of that debt 16:23 Joubu cait: yes, there were concerns, but no proposition :) 16:23 cait i think rangi tried to show some code on how to do it different 16:24 marcelr remember he proposed another cpan module 16:24 cait I think we need to get better at communicating in general - and communicating early on 16:24 gmcharlt cait: he had; a bit more is needed, which was what I was aiming for but didn't get to 16:24 gmcharlt but let's pause a minute and settle the meeting time 16:24 ashimema agreed 16:24 gmcharlt 15:00 UTC and 21:00 UTC on 12 March 2014 for the next dev meeting? 16:25 clrh ashimema: talking about disagreements and trying explain ourselves about what we live everyday is not a war I think :) 16:25 thd gmcharlt: Do you mean that many small changes are difficult to push now because attention needs to be concentrated fixing historic problems? 16:25 gmcharlt thd: http://martinfowler.com/bliki/TechnicalDebt.html 16:26 gmcharlt I can bring up the schedulign question at the 5 March meeting 16:26 ashimema clrh, it was meant lightheardedly.. 16:26 cait Joubu: for things in QA t might help to communicate - we communcate where we start with QA and then you can stop rebasing the other sin the meantime, if that would help 16:26 gmcharlt but can I have some initial +1/-1 on the date? 16:26 ashimema light-heartedly 16:26 gmcharlt ashimema: so you whispered it? ;) 16:26 thd +1 16:27 oleonard +1 16:27 ashimema :p 16:27 tcohen +1 16:27 cait +1 16:27 ashimema +1 16:27 Joubu +1 16:27 marcelr +1 16:27 paul_p gmcharlt = will the meeting last 1 hour ? 16:27 matts +1 16:27 ashimema +1 16:27 ashimema for a hour.. 16:28 wajasu +1 16:28 gmcharlt paul_p: yeah 16:28 ashimema don't want to eat into hacking time too long ;) 16:28 paul_p +1 then 16:28 gmcharlt paul_p: I'll rely on you to manage the chatterboxes in Marseille ;) 16:28 paul_p IRC or hangout ? 16:28 ashimema hangout +1 16:29 tcohen hangout++ 16:29 cait how many hanging out can the wifi support? :) 16:29 gmcharlt #agreed Next dev meeting will be at 15UTC/21UTC on 12 March 2014 (pending confirmation from the second half of today's meeting) 16:29 ashimema hangout on big screen maybe? 16:29 ashimema we can work that out closer to the time though me thinks. 16:29 gmcharlt possibliy both IRC and Hangout 16:29 paul_p ashimema in BibLibre office, we can HG on a projector 16:29 Joubu there is a limitation at 9 users on hg I think 16:29 gmcharlt given the limit, yes 16:30 ashimema think you can get around the limit using a google apps for business account? 16:30 paul_p all hackfest attendees can share the same HG, so it could work 16:30 ashimema sure I could offer ours if that's the case 16:31 gmcharlt ashimema: please find out 16:31 gmcharlt OK 16:31 gmcharlt #endmeeting 16:31 huginn` Meeting ended Tue Feb 25 16:31:29 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) 16:31 huginn` Minutes: http://meetings.koha-community.org/2014/koha_dev_meeting__25_february_2014_15_00_utc.2014-02-25-14.59.html 16:31 huginn` Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community.org/2014/koha_dev_meeting__25_february_2014_15_00_utc.2014-02-25-14.59.txt 16:31 huginn` Log: http://meetings.koha-community.org/2014/koha_dev_meeting__25_february_2014_15_00_utc.2014-02-25-14.59.log.html 16:31 rhcl gmcharlt: RHCL generally supports the move to Unimarc as long as most of the user-end effects are textual. Currently we have to manually remove accent marks, especially in ES, when entering data. 16:32 thd gmcharlt: Please help me to understand a little better the consequence of giving consideration to technical debt in Koha. 16:32 cait rhcl: i think you might be confusing things :) 16:33 ashimema gmcharlt.. will take a look. 16:33 rhcl cait: quite possibly 16:33 gmcharlt thd: in a nutshell - there is the possibility that a particular implementation of a new idea may inevitably incur more than the usual amount of cleanup required later 16:33 thd gmcharlt: Do we hold back patches for minor incremental improvements pending a change in architecture? 16:33 cait rhcl: I think you mean ICU - that would fix the accents 16:33 vfernandes can I ask now? :P 16:33 gmcharlt thd: that sort of technical debt is a tax on the ability of developers to add new features in the future 16:34 cait rhcl: you can type them or not type them, both will find what you are looking for 16:34 gmcharlt thd: and consideration should be given to avoding that 16:34 wajasu vfernandes: yes 16:34 ashimema vfernandes.. go ahead.. 16:34 cait rhcl: and you can already have that now :) 16:34 gmcharlt thd: however, I encourage you to read and ponder the Martin Fowler piece and the links from it first 16:35 cait UNIMARC is like MARC21 - just a bit different and used mostly in France and I think Spain? 16:35 jcamins cait: Portugal. 16:35 wahanui rumour has it portugal is nice and an entry point in Europe 16:35 cait and ES will be Elastic search 16:35 vfernandes with independentbranches on the librarian can only edit items of her librarian 16:35 cait which is not quite there yet :) 16:36 vfernandes can I give a librarian access to a group of libraries 16:36 thd gmcharlt: I should have stated that I read and understood the Martin Fowler explanation of a well acknowledged problem. 16:36 vfernandes for example I have an installation with 5 independent libraries... but to a librarian I want to give access to 3 of that 5 libraries 16:36 vfernandes it is possible? 16:37 thd gmcharlt: I am trying to discover what practical effect considering 'technical debt' is intended to have on prospective patches. 16:37 vfernandes ps: UNIMARC is common in Portugal :) 16:39 wajasu did we every try getting Test::DBIx::Class::SchemaManager::Trait::Testmysqld or Test::DBIx::Class::SchemaManager::Trait::Testpostgresql running? 16:39 * ashimema heads off to QA bug 11096 16:40 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=11096 major, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, Signed Off , Koha cannot retrieve big records from Zebra 16:40 gmcharlt thd: it is one of several criteria that could lead to a patch being rejected or deferred if it is judged to impose to much debt 16:40 vfernandes can I give a librarian access to more than 1 library using independentbranches on= 16:40 vfernandes ? 16:40 thd gmcharlt: Thank you, that was the answer which I was seeking. 16:42 * cait cheers ashimema on 16:42 thd druthb: are you now here? 16:42 druthb for some value of "here" 16:44 thd druthb: I am interested in further clarification on the right to left language issue for MARC. 16:44 cait vfernandes: you could add another account, but apart from that you will have to wait for some features that khall was working on 16:44 wajasu somebody give me something to test/signoff on. i am having a hard time finding things that aren't in some state of gridlock. 16:44 cait vfernandes: currently it's totally divdided or all together,not much in between 16:44 vfernandes damn it :D 16:45 vfernandes i was afraid of that 16:45 thd druthb: You were told that a MARC display should be generally left to right for MARC even when cataloguing in a right to left language, if I understood correctly. 16:47 oleonard Is there something I need to enable in order to be able to schedule reports? 16:47 oleonard I get "Failed to add scheduled task" when I try to do so. 16:47 oleonard Oh, and I see an error in the log: "You do not have permission to use atq." 16:47 thd druthb: Should the content of the textual subfields, however, not be right to left within the individual subfield while the record as a whole and coded non-textual subfields would be left to right? 16:47 cait oleonard: i never got around that :( 16:50 thd druthb: Is the problem for MARC in right to left languages really one of lack of granularity for how Koha had been treating right to left for the record editor in particular? 16:52 wajasu cait. i was able to make the xslt subject headings an html list, but ran into the complex case where 505a was a big chunk of subjects delimited by -- in a format note. So i did not have time to get into search/replace coding in xslt. 16:54 thd druthb: Is my question about record editor presentation in right to left languages clear? 16:54 wajasu as is the case for http://library.redeemerseminary.org/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?biblionumber=16081&query_desc=kw,wrdl:%20vines 16:56 oleonard Is the task scheduler run via cron job? 16:57 wajasu atq i believe is the linux "at" command for running a one time job with cron. 16:58 wajasu http://linux.about.com/library/cmd/blcmdl1_atq.htm 16:58 wajasu atq lists jobs 17:00 gmcharlt I would appreciate feedback on bug 11836, as I see a couple different directions for centralizing the cataloging toolbar management code 17:00 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=11836 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , population of template variables used by cat-toolbar.inc should be centralized 17:03 oleonard I'm trying to test saved reports with some data in the "saved results" column and I don't know what to do. I successfully scheduled a report but it doesn't seem to have run. 17:03 wajasu i'd go with the later option, since its presentation specfic. But if you want a test written, the class you mentioned might be easier to write one for. 17:04 wajasu oleonard: let me try in my environment. I was working on some yesterday. 17:06 gmcharlt bug 11837 is similar 17:06 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=11837 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , generation of template-variables used by members-toolbar.inc should be centralized 17:06 wajasu i have the same problem trying to schedule. let me look at the code. 17:06 gmcharlt wajasu: actually, I don't think it's any harder to write test cases for template plugins 17:07 gmcharlt e.g., t/db_dependent/Koha_template_plugin_Branches.t 17:07 wajasu ok. a plugin. 17:07 wahanui a plugin is jquery.qtip.js. It's used somewhere in budgets admin I think 17:07 oleonard wahanui: forget a plugin 17:07 wahanui oleonard: I forgot plugin 17:11 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #1644: SUCCESS in 2 hr 1 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_master/1644/ 17:11 jenkins_koha Marcel de Rooy: Bug 11803: use $dbh consistently in _koha_modify_item 17:11 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=11803 trivial, P5 - low, ---, m.de.rooy, Pushed to Master , Consistent use of $dbh in _koha_modify_item 17:14 mtompset Greetings, #koha. 17:14 Joubu gmcharlt: The patch you proposed on bug 10865 looks good to me, good catch! 17:14 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10865 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, In Discussion , Don't show list permissions when adding public lists/sharing lists is not allowed 17:16 gmcharlt oleonard: do you want to apply some styling to it now? 17:17 gmcharlt Joubu: thanks for testing it 17:17 gmcharlt and thanks for fixing my typo ;) 17:17 * oleonard will take a look 17:21 * gmcharlt wonders if DataTables can be induced to let one specify sortable columns by (say) header row ID or class rather than numeric postion 17:23 wajasu if this is the library we use http://yuilibrary.com/yui/docs/api/classes/DataTable.Sortable.html i believe so. then we won't have bugs creep up when columns added. 17:23 gmcharlt YUI is dead to us 17:23 gmcharlt http://datatables.net/ is what I'm referring to 17:26 gmcharlt and to answer my question - looks like yes, via aoColumnDefs/aTargets 17:30 oleonard Yeah gmcharlt that method is used in some places I think. 17:30 oleonard I 17:31 oleonard try to pick the least verbose config for each case 17:32 tcohen @later tell eythian I've just released a patched Memoize::Memcached. Its my first CPAN contribution and is a trivial patch. Would you take a look at it and comment on problem you find? 17:32 huginn` tcohen: The operation succeeded. 17:35 gmcharlt oleonard: I just sent an email to koha-devel about it 17:35 gmcharlt in this case, I suspect that a bit more verbosity may help us in the long run 17:36 gmcharlt tcohen++ 17:36 reiveune bye 17:37 gmcharlt tcohen: where does the source repo for it live, nowadyas? 17:37 tcohen there wasn't any, i started a gitorious one 17:37 gmcharlt were you able to reach the original maintainer at all, or did you have to request a takeover from CPAN? 17:38 tcohen i coordinated it with the original author 17:38 gmcharlt cool 17:38 tcohen he gave me the rights 17:39 mtompset Sweet! 17:39 mtompset Greetings, gmcharlt tcohen oleonard. 17:40 mtompset Greetings, wajasu Joubu. :) 17:40 wajasu Hiya! 17:42 wajasu if anyone sees something testable I should try or rescue just give me a bg number 17:43 oleonard wajasu: http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/buglist.cgi?cmdtype=dorem&list_id=90381&namedcmd=Needs%20Signoff&remaction=run&sharer_id=1 17:43 wajasu i'm not sure bug 1993 is working. at least not for me on master. 17:43 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=1993 major, P3, ---, sophie.meynieux, In Discussion , Task Scheduler Needs Re-write 17:49 mtompset Is 20GB a good recommendation for minimal disk space required? 17:51 mtompset wajasu: Doesn't that task scheduler use at? 17:51 mtompset I vaguely remember having to do something I didn't want to do in order to get it to run. 17:52 wajasu probably add http to /etc/at.allow and such. its got some other problem. got to debug. 17:53 gmcharlt mtompset: one can go lower for a toy database, but there's a point where I prefer not to encourage people to skimp too m9uch on disk space 17:53 gmcharlt heck, not even toy, a small library can live on 20G 17:53 gmcharlt but generally disk is cheap 17:56 mtompset The reason I ask is because someone thought, "Oh, 4GB should be enough for an Ubuntu install with a Koha git install," and discovered it wasn't. 17:57 mtompset So they created bug 11830, and I pointed out that I've got a 15GB VM and only have 2.7G free now. 17:57 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=11830 minor, P5 - low, ---, mtompset, Needs Signoff , Document disk space requirements for git install on Ubuntu 17:57 mtompset So, I redid what they patched, but with 20GB. 17:58 mtompset I can't wait until 14.04 comes out. I love new LTS releases. :) 17:58 wajasu they were creating a VM. i have one now at 4G and am at 91% full. I'm sure they put 6GB so as not to hava VM thats too big. 17:59 * tcohen knows storage space is expensive 17:59 gmcharlt heh 17:59 gmcharlt my perspective may be a bit skewed 17:59 mtompset wajasu: But then your data set must be microscopic. 18:00 gmcharlt but absent cases where one really cannot get more spaces, I still prefer recommending a little high 18:00 mtompset wajasu: Also, are you using Ubuntu? I thought you were some crazy thing like arch linux. 18:00 wajasu yes. but I use a script to create new VMs and can adjust the size. 18:00 gmcharlt I've seen just one too many setup have issues because they ran out of disk space 18:00 wajasu i run on archlinux, but i create a VM doing an automated debian install. 18:02 tcohen bye #koha 18:02 mtompset oh shoot... did I miss the DBIx meeting stuff? 18:02 wajasu i just tweek a preseed.cfg script for different distro, and I sshfs /home/koha/kohaclone to my archlinux host, so I can git clone and use my tools on my host OS. 18:03 gmcharlt mtompset: you can have another go during the second part of the meeting 18:03 mtompset when is that? 18:03 wajasu 3pm CST 18:03 fridolin I'm on Lubuntu, you should try it, it realy light and so powerfull 18:03 wajasu who is doing the marc editor in javascript? 18:04 gmcharlt pianohacker is the primary dev on that project 18:05 mtompset Ah, 4pm EST, okay. 18:05 mtompset How long did the first one go, gmcharlt? 18:06 gmcharlt about 1.5 hours 18:07 gmcharlt I'll be trying to keep the second one closder to 1 18:08 mtompset Okay good. Because I have to leave at 5:30pm EST. 18:22 wajasu i'm trying to place ahold in the OPAC. I have all the admin settings on. where does a link or button show up for placing a hold. 18:27 * cait is back 18:27 cait :) 18:30 gaetan_B bye ! 19:03 pianohacker yo 19:03 magnuse yoyoyo 19:06 * rangi reads the log 19:07 cait morning rangi 19:10 rangi hopefully round 2 will be less whiny and more productive 19:14 mtompset whiny? 19:15 wajasu folks wanting stuff with no plan of action for every wish mentioned. 19:21 rangi maybe i need to show people rebase -i --onto sometime 19:22 cait for easier rebasing? 19:22 * cait loves it :) 19:22 cait using it to manage our few customisations 19:22 rangi yep 19:23 rangi running local branches, with small commits, then merge squash to attach etc 19:23 rangi makes life a lot easier 19:23 magnuse put it on the wiki? :-) 19:23 rangi im not sure people ever read the wiki ;) 19:24 rangi what we do need is a librarian or 3 19:24 magnuse http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Tips_and_tricks 19:24 rangi to become curators of the wiki 19:24 magnuse yeah, that would be super cool 19:24 rangi because its really hard to find stuff unless you know what you are after 19:24 magnuse maybe "announce the positions" on the mailinglist? 19:25 rangi hmm could be worth a try 19:30 wajasu oleanard: i was testing 11702, and it seems to work without the patch. i just used the calendar widget to select the suspend-until date. does it have to do with manual date entry? 19:31 wajasu oleonard: i mean ^^^ 19:31 rangi oleonard: loving the datatables patches, they are great for getting the high school kids to test with the sandbox, 3 more yesterday :) 19:31 cait but 11702 19:31 cait bu 11702 19:31 cait bug 11702 19:31 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=11702 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , Can't specify date for automatic resumption of suspended hold 19:34 oleonard Oh I hadn't seen rangi's comment on that bug. 19:35 oleonard wajasu: It doesn't have to do with manual date entry 19:35 rangi oh yeah i wastnt sure about that, gmcharlt http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=11702#c2 19:35 huginn` 04Bug 11702: normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , Can't specify date for automatic resumption of suspended hold 19:36 oleonard rangi: I simply looked for date-handling code which worked that I could steal. 19:37 wajasu i placed a hold with and without your patch and i queried reserves and got the same behavior. 19:37 mtompset wajasu++ # wanting to support an SIL font. ;) 19:38 rangi oleonard: yep exactly what i would have done, im just not sure about the state of C4::Dates 19:38 oleonard wajasu: You suspended the holds and it saved a valid date? 19:39 wajasu well, with my selection of a date from the widget. i just saved with a blank field though and its null. 19:41 wajasu so maybe the null is getting transformed to 000-00-00 in some other hold processing code, and what we need to do is validate the input field. 19:41 Joubu rangi: do you think I was whiny? :) 19:41 oleonard wajasu: A hold can either be suspended until a certain date or indefinitely 19:41 wajasu ok. so null is fine then. 19:42 rangi Joubu: not just you, just the general tone 19:44 gmcharlt oleonard: rangi: use of Koha::DateUtils is more idiomatic, nowaways 19:44 gmcharlt so that patch appears to signal a problem with that module 19:47 rangi *nod* 19:47 Joubu rangi: I am often grumpy, but I know git rebase --onto, and it does not help me very much (a lot of patches with several branches to maintain). 19:48 wajasu maybe you saw 000-00-00 when working bug 11694? 19:48 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=11694 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , Improve handling of individual hold suspension in Bootstrap OPAC 19:48 Joubu So, I hope you will be more productive than "us" too :) 19:48 Joubu good luck 19:48 Joubu have a good meeting everyone, see you tomorrow 19:49 oleonard Hey all o' y'all gotta get your demos up and running and/or up to date and/or containing bibliographic holdings. Thanks. 19:49 oleonard http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_Demo_Installations 19:50 oleonard Until then I beseech someone to test to see if suspending an individual hold in the OPAC works correctly 19:53 mtompset oleonard: How does that tie in with http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Sandboxes 19:59 oleonard I don't know what you mean mtompset 20:01 ashimema @later tell marcelr You asked about SRU with DOM.. the bug I was thinking about was bug 9612 20:01 huginn` ashimema: The operation succeeded. 20:01 mtompset http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Sandboxes#Available_Sandboxes 20:01 oleonard mtompset: I am aware of the sandboxes. 20:02 mtompset Are sandboxes different than demos? 20:02 ashimema We gave up on our demo site.. it now 'is' one of our sandbox instances ;) 20:02 gmcharlt yes 20:02 gmcharlt the BL sandboxes are desgined to let somebody claim one, apply a patch series from a bug, and test it 20:02 ashimema but yes.. a demo is differnt to a sandbox.. ours just hapens to be running upon a sandbox so always follwoing master ;) 20:03 ashimema gmcharlt.. ptfs europe host a few sandboxes now too.. I've added a umber for the hackfest.. 20:03 ashimema right.. time for some dinner before the next meetins 20:04 * mtompset is putting on his chauffeur hat. 20:05 gmcharlt ashimema: ah cool, I wasn't aware of that 20:05 _ashimema ;) 20:09 cait ashimema++ and ptfs_europe++ 20:10 _ashimema thanks cait ;) 20:11 cait it's really cool :) 20:11 _ashimema been looking over my nginx/plack testing.. that patch isn't in bad shape actually.. with a medium amount of effort it should be ready for signoff/qa 20:12 cait :) 20:13 mrenvoize i'm thinking a followup would be needed to ensure compatability with packages mind.. but then the patch i'm thinking of was only ever originally designed for testing purposes. 20:13 cait i am a bit worried about the new apache version 20:13 cait it already gives me trouble with ubuntu on my laptop 20:13 rangi yeah we need to finish that bug 20:13 cait would be good to see that moving too 20:14 mrenvoize I remember reading through that bug.. whats holding it up, I can't remember 20:14 cait hm maybe it was packages 20:14 cait because needs to be changed there too? not sure 20:15 * mrenvoize goes off to read the bug 20:15 mrenvoize ack 20:16 oleonard So... scheduling saved reports. Is that simply not working? Or am I missing something? 20:16 cait it did never work for me 20:16 cait but i think _ashimema might know something 20:16 cait but i think you can't do it from th einterface, only manually adding a cronjob maybe? 20:18 jcamins oleonard: I don't think that's ever worked. 20:18 jcamins Certainly when I started using Koha in 2009 I was told that the feature didn't work. 20:18 wajasu it doesn't look like it should work as it is now. i'm looking ate tools/scheduler.pl on master and its still got EXPORT in caps. 20:20 mrenvoize you can do this in both packages and dev installs 20:21 barton I'm tryiing to get an understanding of what the file 'ccl.properties' does. http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Understanding_Zebra_indexing only says "for searching purposes". 20:21 mrenvoize but yeah.. the staff client scheduling has never worked since i've been working with koha.. though I'de love to see that change... it's on my todo list.. but not very high up it 20:22 rangi mrenvoize: https://soundcloud.com/high-rankin/high-rankin-the-eye-feat-paul <-- nz/uk collaboration 20:24 cait hm i think 20:24 cait mapping the bib1 attribute to the index? 20:24 cait but others will know better :) 20:24 ashimema nice.. 20:24 ashimema barton.. just diggin out my notes on that 20:25 cait ashimema: don#t forget your dinner! 20:25 ashimema pressure cookers are great.. 2 hours dinner cooked in minutes ! 20:25 barton ashimema: I actually found something on this -- http://manual.koha-community.org/3.6/en/searchguide.html 20:25 ashimema tasty ragu 20:25 ashimema cool 20:27 ashimema barton.. pming you my notes anyways. they're rather concise.. it took me ages to work them out. 20:27 cait ashimema++ :) 20:28 ashimema rangi: awesome song. 20:29 * cait is also listening to it :) 20:32 ashimema barton: here's my zebra braindump in a more edible format: http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/MRenvoize/zebra 20:33 barton ashimema++ 20:33 rangi https://soundcloud.com/loopcrew/08-love-and-not-the-lesson <-- paul mclaney .. but this time with module who is from island bay (my suburb) 20:33 jcamins NOOOOOOO!!!! 20:34 jcamins ashimema: ummm... step two of the additional steps for DOM indexing is not so good. 20:34 jcamins That step instructs you to run make_zebra_dom_cfg_from_record_abs. 20:34 ashimema there are further notes as to why that's a bad idea.. 20:35 ashimema or did i copy the wrong page from our internal wiki. 20:35 jcamins Wrong page, I think. 20:35 ashimema checking now.. 20:35 jcamins That just tells you to make a few manual changes after regenerating the DOM config. 20:37 ashimema yeah.. needs more thinking through.. but I was hoping to just get the point of ccl.properties accross really.. 20:37 ashimema not meant to be a 'public' per say page.. 20:38 cait maybe just delete the part about dom for now? 20:38 cait no confusion :) 20:38 jcamins The rest of it's right. 20:38 ashimema barton: jcamins is right.. if your using grs-1 it's fine.. jsut ignore the dom extra's.. if your want dom. ask hree for further clarification 20:38 * ashimema goes and cleans out the dom bit of that page. 20:39 * cait thinks that page has nicer formatting than most of our other pages 20:39 jcamins cait: it does. 20:39 ashimema jcamins.. how would you go and update dom configs now then.. (i still use those scripts, then diff their output with a backup of the original copying across the extra's form the old to the new) 20:40 ashimema yeah.. I like wiki's ;) 20:40 ashimema unfortunately our 'private wiki' has turned into my personal brain dump now as they the company decided to switch to google sites (which is horrible) 20:41 ashimema and.. the formatting would be nicer if it community ran up to date mediawiki.. there's folding and all sorts on that page.. but it doesn't work with community version of mediawiki ;) 20:41 barton ashimema actually, I *am* using DOM. 20:41 ashimema dang.. 20:41 rangi ashimema: just making the GHCQ's job easier 20:41 cait ? 20:41 ashimema ok.. I'll have a go at updating the docs 20:41 ashimema indeed 20:41 rangi sorry gchq 20:42 ashimema lol.. I almost got a job with them before koha ;) 20:42 rangi heh 20:42 jcamins ashimema: you have to edit koha-indexdefs.xml and then generate the xsl from that. 20:42 jcamins It's just the first part of that step that's bad. 20:43 jcamins The problem is that running that first command could be very, very bad. Especially if you have a large database, and decide to reindex. 20:43 * jcamins shudders at the thought. 20:43 ashimema yeah.. I've never taken the time to understand koha-indexdef.xml well enough to edit it directly yet though jcamins ;) 20:43 gmcharlt it's not that complicated 20:43 jcamins It's very simple. 20:43 ashimema hense why I use the script, then vimdiff with my backup.. it works well enough. 20:43 ashimema lol.. i've barely ever opened the file.. 20:43 jcamins Sometimes a little too simple, alas. 20:43 gmcharlt though as is common with XML formats, I wouldn't be surprised if the verbosity gets in the way for a lot of folks 20:44 gmcharlt jcamins: complexifying patches welcome ;) 20:44 * jcamins has versions of the Zebra indexdefs that are handwritten, alas. 20:44 ashimema mostly I was pulling accross customisations for customers during upgrades.. so the changes had been made pre-dom. 20:44 jcamins gmcharlt: eh, I have had nowhere near enough problems to justify complexifying it, just observing that it can happen. 20:45 ashimema well.. with any luck we'll be withdraing non-dom support.. then i don't have to bother trying ot keep the two configs synced ;) 20:48 ashimema is it worth me sanitizing my zebra page and sticking it in the wiki proper then?.. there is a page on there that already attempts to explain it.. but it's a bit less 'clear' 20:49 jcamins You could update the existing page by copying in your text. I think the existing page is mostly just a copy of things that were said in IRC. 20:50 ashimema yup 20:50 gmcharlt #3 isn't quite true if QP is on 20:50 ashimema of course.. that makes sense 20:51 ashimema QP uses pqf right? 20:51 gmcharlt yep 20:51 gmcharlt second half of the meeting starts in 9 minutes 20:51 * rangi gets coffee 20:52 ashimema or was is cql.. or forget.. jcamins care to pipe up ;) 20:52 jcamins PQF. 20:52 ashimema i remeber you exmplaining it.. but don't remeber which tla was which ;) 20:52 ashimema cheers mate 20:53 ashimema pqf, but falls back to ccl for a number of cases does it not? 20:53 jcamins It falls back to non-QP existing code if it can't handle the query, yeah. 20:54 ashimema coolios.. 20:55 wajasu how about some cookies 20:59 thd gmcharlt: Is the second half of the meeting intended to have a partly different agenda or merely serve a different timezone? 20:59 eythian_ There's a meeting thing about now, right? 21:00 gmcharlt thd: same agenda 21:00 cait yep eythian 21:00 thd eythinan_: yes 21:01 gmcharlt #startmeeting Koha Dev Meeting, 25 February 2014 21:00 UTC 21:01 huginn` Meeting started Tue Feb 25 21:01:00 2014 UTC. The chair is gmcharlt. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 21:01 huginn` Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 21:01 huginn` The meeting name has been set to 'koha_dev_meeting__25_february_2014_21_00_utc' 21:01 gmcharlt #link http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Developers_IRC_Meeting,_February_25,_2014 21:01 gmcharlt #topic Introductions 21:01 wahanui #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient 21:01 mtompset #info Mark Tompsett 21:01 gmcharlt #info gmcharlt = Galen Charlton, 3.16 RM, Equinox, USA 21:01 eythian_ #info Robin Sheat, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ 21:01 JesseM #info Jesse Maseto - ByWater 21:02 rangi #info Chris Cormack, Catalyst IT, Wellington, NZ 21:02 thd #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City 21:03 ashimema #info Martin Renvoize, PTFS-Europe, UK 21:03 cait #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ 21:04 gmcharlt ok, I'm going to recap announcements from the previous meeting 21:04 gmcharlt #topic Announcements 21:04 gmcharlt #info gmcharlt will be clearing the passed QA queue prior to the beginning of the hackfest in Marseille 21:04 gmcharlt #info end of tomorrow will be cutoff for new passed QA until the hackfest in Marseille, QA team to focus on sign offs and kitten rescue 21:04 rangi cool 21:05 gmcharlt #info the hackfest in Marseille is 10-14 March 21:05 wahanui i already had it that way, gmcharlt. 21:05 jcamins #info Jared Camins-Esakov, C & P Bibliography Services 21:05 mtompset -- kitten rescue? 21:05 gmcharlt mtompset: resucing patches in failed QA or does not aply status 21:05 mtompset thank you. 21:05 ashimema everybody love saving kitten mtompset 21:05 gmcharlt any other announcements folks care to make? 21:07 gmcharlt ok 21:07 rangi ill cover mine when we get to elasticsearch 21:07 gmcharlt #topic RM questions 21:07 gmcharlt I'm passing over the UNIMARC questions and repeating this one: 21:07 gmcharlt is there a reasonable Plack configuration that we could include in 3.16, and encourage as a first-class install option? 21:07 gmcharlt #info is there a reasonable Plack configuration that we could include in 3.16, and encourage as a first-class install option? 21:08 ashimema I looked over my notes for bug 9316 as promised at the earlier meeting. 21:08 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9316 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Needs Signoff , Add Nginx install options with plack 21:08 ashimema It's not in bad shape really.. probably a worthwhile one to work through for getting plack easily usable by all 21:09 eythian_ from a packaging point of view, it's close but there is one major issue with it that I haven't tried to solve yet, and that's that it won't do shared sites well at all at the moment. 21:09 ashimema it was, however, mostly aimed at making plack more easily installable and therfore testable.. I don't know if it's the 'best' way of doing it, or how it plays with packages. 21:09 gmcharlt another issue that rangi has mentioned, but which I'm not sure is in a bug yet, is management of connections to Zebra 21:09 eythian_ i.e. if you have 10 workers sitting around, and 10 sites on there, that's going to end up with 100 workers running, and no memory. 21:10 gmcharlt in particular, zebrasrv will time out connections, but there's apparently no good way for the ZOOM API to detect that 21:10 gmcharlt so users can run into a backend that has lost its Zebra connectin 21:10 rangi thats exactly it 21:10 ashimema ooh. not thought of either of those points. 21:10 eythian_ we do have a handy script that'll turn a regular package installation into a plack installation. 21:11 ashimema cool.. eythian.. any chance of sharing that? 21:11 rangi only the opac tho 21:11 ashimema would hapily help with testing here. 21:11 eythian_ https://github.com/mkfifo/koha-gitify <-- ashimema 21:11 eythian_ no wait 21:11 eythian_ hmm, not sure where it lives. 21:12 rangi on git.catalyst 21:12 rangi 2 secs 21:12 ashimema cheers. 21:12 eythian_ http://git.catalyst.net.nz/gw?p=koha-plack.git 21:12 eythian_ ^-- there 21:12 rangi thats it 21:13 rangi however for the search to work consistently 21:13 rangi you need something like this 21:13 rangi http://git.catalyst.net.nz/gw?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=459c750e4b0aa0fe5dba601e423e78070383b97b;hp=2c9581f75fdb1f76e60c83f86e253cb4dfe04597 21:14 rangi (but nicer obviously) 21:14 mtompset Hmmm... that reminds me of a patch I recently signed off. 21:14 eythian_ Ideally we'd build the proxy into the install. 21:14 mtompset or read. 21:15 ashimema so.. in short it needs a bit more thought and testing 21:15 rangi yes 21:15 rangi the opac, apart from that problem works well 21:15 gmcharlt that confirms my suspicions 21:15 eythian_ but when it works, it works really nicely. 21:15 rangi the intranet needs a ton more testing 21:15 ashimema I thought paul_p had it running somewhere.. surprised he's not pointed out the search issues 21:16 cait hm he said something about having to restart it or something? 21:16 ashimema yeah.. good point cait. 21:16 cait also the problem is that a single library will never use all features 21:16 cait circ might work well, while some tool doesn't 21:16 thd` To what extent is work on elastic search being shared between Koha and Evergreen? 21:16 wajasu has anyone though of using systemd to manage start/restart/stop of servers. i believe systemd can be a watchdog and restart crashed services. 21:17 rangi thd`: we arent even up to that yet 21:17 thd` sorry, I was disconnected 21:17 ashimema indeed.. I was hoping to use a few of our more friendly customers as ginny pigs 21:17 eythian_ wajasu: the problem is mostly memory leaks and unreleased resources, I think. 21:17 gmcharlt replacing Evergreen's search engine is not on anybody's radar to my knowledge 21:17 rangi wajasu: its not a stopped/crashed server 21:17 rangi its a timed out connection 21:17 wajasu oh 21:17 rangi zebra very very very rarely crashes 21:18 rangi the ZOOM api has no way of knowing if a connection is live 21:18 rangi in fact z3950 21:18 rangi is not designed to be used in the way we use it 21:18 rangi however, 99% of the world try to do the same thing we do 21:19 rangi which is why yaz-proxy and things like it exist 21:19 rangi and why LOC use yaz-proxy in front of their ILS 21:19 gmcharlt indeed 21:19 gmcharlt I think this is a reasonable seque to... 21:19 gmcharlt #topic Elastic Search 21:19 * ashimema got left behind at the mention of yaz-proxy... 21:19 gmcharlt rangi: can you give a summary of where Catalyst is with it? 21:20 thd` rangi: In what way do you mean not designed for our use case? 21:20 rangi we have one client running the opac in production 21:20 gmcharlt ashimema: (briefly, yaz-proxy in front of Zebra will take care of trying and reopening the Zebra connect if it times out) 21:20 rangi with the above commit, to make it reconnect to zebra each search (exactly what happens under cgi) 21:20 ashimema thought that might be the case.. cheers gmcharlt 21:20 rangi it works great, and has stopped the site dying under big load which it used to do each month 21:21 rangi (when they publish a newsletter that pounded the opac to death) 21:21 eythian_ yeah, it barely broke a sweat with thousands of requests in a short space of time 21:21 ashimema I see, a worthwhile note.. 21:21 rangi we are planning to do a lot more testing on the intranet 21:21 eythian_ normally it'd be all OOM then die 21:21 rangi yep 21:21 rangi id happily run the opac under plack, with the ZConn fix 21:21 eythian_ (I did spend time tuning it to ensure it couldn't OOM under plack too, that's necessary but not hard._ 21:21 eythian_ ) 21:22 rangi in production 21:22 rangi thd`: holding connections open 21:22 ashimema so.. may worth working that installer patch out such that it cleanly adds the workaround so we can get more sites testing rigorously. 21:23 rangi but it would be better to get yaz-proxy in there, which will be useful under cgi too 21:23 * ashimema adds mental note 21:23 thd` rangi: If you do not hold connections open with Z39.50 your request fails. 21:23 * ashimema apologises for holding up conversation on ElasticSearch.. 21:23 eythian_ there's no reason we couldn't add it to the package install, perhaps as an option, aside from someone taking the time to do it. 21:23 rangi *nod* 21:24 gmcharlt ok, dragging us back on topic, please... 21:24 cait ashimema: things are clearer for me now too - so thx for holding up 21:24 cait :) 21:25 rangi right elastic search 21:25 rangi we have indexing (when a biblio is modified) and a basic search going 21:26 rangi eythian has done work on an iterator for biblios to allow for a batch index (amongst others) 21:26 eythian_ still not ready, but getting there. 21:26 rangi next on the cards is a browse search, whcih is one of hte requirements of the funding institution 21:27 rangi after that, intranet search 21:27 gmcharlt browse in this case meaning what, exactly? bib headings, authority headings, or both? 21:27 thd` rangi: How is browse search envisioned by the client? 21:28 rangi then time permitting, create a fully js search page, (since elasticsearch hands back JSON) 21:28 rangi gmcharlt: kinda both 21:28 cait rangi: what does basic search include? 21:28 rangi thd`: a library browse .. so something no one else on the planet would understand 21:28 rangi but apparently is vitally important to librarians 21:29 ashimema lol, I've never really understood what librarians mean by 'browse search' 21:29 rangi cait: just author, keyword, title at the moment 21:29 cait that's not too bad :) 21:29 eythian_ once the fundamentals are in place, adding more is easy. 21:29 rangi we aim to have a demo site up for playing with at the hackfest 21:29 gmcharlt WIP can be viewed where? 21:29 cait mostly alphabetic index i think - libraries here are asking for that as well 21:29 thd` rangi: Does that mean browsing the semantic space of classification or subject headings hierarchically? 21:29 rangi yep 21:30 rangi http://git.catalyst.net.nz/gw?p=koha.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/elastic_search 21:30 rangi thd`: no idea, im not gonna reread the spec thing now 21:30 thd` ;) 21:30 rangi blah blah millenium blah blah horizon .. blah blah 21:30 rangi thats what it said to me 21:30 ashimema silly question time.. how does it actually fit together in terms of side by side with zebra, drop in replacement.. does your work do anything to abstract so we could use variose search backends? 21:31 rangi im hoping we can do something that humans will actually understand though :) 21:31 rangi ashimema: its working side by side 21:31 rangi if you switch the syspref it indexes to elasticsearch TOO 21:31 rangi ie its still indexing zebra in the background 21:32 rangi so you can have elasticsearch on the opac and zebra on the back (like now) 21:32 ashimema I see.. 21:32 rangi it might be a switch, when the intranet searches work with it too 21:32 ashimema so keeping zebra for z39.50 (SRU) support, but using ES for OPAC and eventually intranet search 21:33 rangi eventually yeah 21:33 thd` rangi: Do you mean the your implementation is merely complementary to what Zebra provides because we have tied so much functionality to Zebra? 21:33 ashimema coolios. 21:33 rangi thd`: i dont want to write a z3950 or sru/sw server 21:33 rangi is the short answer 21:34 thd` rangi: of course, but I meant update triggers for the database etc. 21:34 ashimema z3950/SRU is what zebra is built for.. we may as well keep using it for that ;) 21:34 ashimema at least in the medium term. 21:34 rangi yeah, kaizen :) 21:34 rangi i figure small incremental improvements are easier to test, and less likely to bustinate everything 21:35 rangi the indexer is very simple, at the moment is marc only, but would be able to be other documents with minor changes 21:35 ashimema any comments on abstraction rangi.. is it likely we'll be ableto use this work to 'plug in' other indexers in the future via writing a 'driver'.. 21:35 rangi probably not 21:36 rangi i think that abstraction can actually make it more obtuse and slow 21:36 rangi http://git.catalyst.net.nz/gw?p=koha.git;a=blob;f=Koha/ElasticSearch/Indexer.pm;h=d7dd8dc011fa2d09fc452aa8e29351815f30dc1d;hb=dcb4ab577d305ec415d06b84a0eca7d58ea685b4 <-- indexer 21:36 ashimema fair point. 21:36 thd` gmcharlt: At the last Kohacon hackfest the issue of some shared work between Koha and Evergreen in relation to search was discussed. 21:36 gmcharlt rangi: ashimema: well that's a relief -- I was worried that we'd never have anything to talk about on koha-devel 21:36 rangi heh 21:37 gmcharlt now I know we're set for life! ;) 21:37 rangi we could make Koha::Indexer 21:37 gmcharlt thd`: the context was most likely QueryParser 21:37 rangi which abstracts over Koha::ElasticSearch::Indexer 21:37 gmcharlt I repeat, I know of no serious thoughts about changing Evergreen's search engine at present 21:38 ashimema QueryParser was going to be my next question.. in that. how does it fit in in the scheme of things with ES? 21:38 thd` gmcharlt: Was the consideration of shared work merely for the user interface parser to which any backend system could be used? 21:38 rangi id like that to abstract over Koha::ElasticSearch::Search 21:38 rangi http://git.catalyst.net.nz/gw?p=koha.git;a=blob;f=Koha/ElasticSearch/Search.pm;h=2efb53e04ab5e3b01958009ae925f3e1530cce51;hb=dcb4ab577d305ec415d06b84a0eca7d58ea685b4 <-- so tiny and cute 21:39 gmcharlt well, in QP-speak it woudl be more likely a driver that translates to ES queries 21:39 rangi yeah that :) 21:39 ashimema yeah.. that's what I meant.. 21:39 ashimema ;) 21:39 ashimema thanks gmcharlt 21:39 gmcharlt but unless you are about to tell me that ES uses ASN.666/BER, we're probably OK ;) 21:40 rangi nope 21:40 rangi its super simple 21:40 cait so we could use query parser to translate searches into elastic search searches? 21:40 * ashimema clueless again :$ 21:40 * cait tries to follow 21:41 gmcharlt #link http://git.catalyst.net.nz/gw?p=koha.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/elastic_search 21:41 rangi yes thats the plan 21:42 rangi http://search.cpan.org/~drtech/ElasticSearch-0.66/lib/ElasticSearch.pm#Query_methods 21:42 rangi if you are interested 21:42 rangi #info we plan to have a demo in time for the hackfest 21:42 cait very cool 21:42 cait totally curious :) 21:43 rangi its a well documented module, which is very handy 21:44 rangi thats about all i have 21:45 cait rangi++ eythian++ 21:45 ashimema ++ 21:45 rangi i feel like it will make life a lot better for the future and help with our move from MARC 21:45 * ashimema best go read the manual 21:45 bag here - sorry to be late 21:45 gmcharlt OK, next topic 21:45 mtompset actually... how does all this search stuff related to facets showing or not showing? 21:46 gmcharlt #topic DBIx::Class 21:46 bag ah I have something to add about Zebra - when it's back to that subject 21:46 gmcharlt oh, OK :) 21:46 gmcharlt #topic Searching 21:46 gmcharlt bag go for it 21:46 ashimema :) 21:47 bag I've talked with gmcharlt and rangi about this. but we've seen zebra fast indexing - when it's doing a merge 21:47 bag uses 100% of the I/O 21:47 bag just at that spot 21:47 thd` Even with MARC, anything which scales better is an advantage. 21:47 bag rangi or gmcharlt please feel free to say what I said more gracefully 21:47 rangi yeah, it becomes I/O bound on the merge step 21:48 eythian_ a merge will use a ton of IO, because it's beating up on the disk. 21:48 ashimema yup.. we've seen that too bag 21:48 gmcharlt and at present nobody's yet dived deep enough into the code to see if it can be readily remedied 21:48 bag we've done some testing and can only confirm that if you have mysql on the same disk then everything freezes for a bit 21:48 eythian_ a workaround would be to run it with ionice so that other things get priority. 21:49 gmcharlt indeed 21:49 thd` What are the conditions under which a merge happens with Zebra? 21:49 gmcharlt (and separating out I/O for DB vs. everything else is often a good idea for large installations) 21:49 eythian_ or have your DB on another server. I've also been meaning to look into having zebra on its own server, but haven't really had the need. 21:49 bag thd`: fast indexing - once you are TRYing to add to an index that is already created 21:50 rangi chunking the merges into smaller bits may be a solution too 21:50 rangi but not sure 21:50 wajasu maybe some unix command like renice or ionice can bind the IO for that process. - just a guess 21:51 bag rangi we've seen it with merges as little of 100 records 21:51 gmcharlt well, if it turns out to help, ionice could be incorporated into the script that launches rebuild_zebra.pl easily enough 21:51 rangi bag: maybe not then, darn 21:51 rangi gmcharlt: thats definitely worth trying 21:51 bag good thought - let's get a bug for that 21:51 rangi bag++ #pie 21:51 gmcharlt bag: rangi: zebraidx may end up doing index rebalancing regardless of the size of the merge, perhaps 21:52 bag heh 21:52 eythian_ totally trivial to test, too. 21:52 bag gmcharlt++ 21:52 gmcharlt bag++ 21:52 cait bag++ gmcharlt++ 21:52 gmcharlt of course, here's a crazy thought: 21:52 gmcharlt store the zebra files on a ramdisk 21:53 bag we've gotten around it by getting mysql on a different disk than zebra idx 21:53 rangi hmm thats not that crazy 21:53 eythian_ could have problems when they get large, also having to do a full rebuild on boot could take a long time. 21:53 bag but I'm not sure everyone could afford such a thing 21:53 rangi yeah 21:53 gmcharlt eythian_: yeah, that's the obvious tradeoff 21:54 gmcharlt of course, one could s/ramdisk/SSD/, but that still involves expense 21:54 rangi you could index on another machine 21:54 eythian_ I do think splitting the disks for the different things could be considered a best practice though. 21:54 rangi and rsync 21:54 thd` gmcharlt: If something like rebalancing is happening then the process should be batched to cron for late at night. 21:54 rangi that may still i/o bind you 21:54 gmcharlt indexing but once a data is a non-starter for general use 21:54 gmcharlt *once a day 21:54 eythian_ thd`: then you don't have updates in near realtime 21:55 bag eythian_: best practice yes - but may not be possible for all people installing koha 21:55 thd` eythian_: Yes but a non-thrashing system is important. 21:55 ashimema I've dabbled with sticing indexes on ssd whilst everything else is on hdd.. it 'felt' quicker, but I ran out of time to really benchmark it properly 21:55 eythian_ bag: yep. I'd slap an ionice in front of the rebuild command, see if that helps to start with. 21:55 mtompset bag++ #pie 21:55 mtompset gmcharlt++ 21:56 gmcharlt bag: is there a bug yet? 21:56 bag I don't know gmcharlt 21:57 gmcharlt if not, please file one -- I can't think of a better place at moment to aggregate informatino about zebraidx I/O perofrmance 21:57 bag if I don't find it - I will create one 21:57 gmcharlt thanks 21:57 gmcharlt and now I really will change topics 21:57 gmcharlt #topic DBIx::Class 21:57 bag thanks 21:57 gmcharlt to summarize the discussion this morning 21:57 gmcharlt there's some pending disagreement about appropriate use of DBIC 21:58 gmcharlt with opinions essentially ranging between using the DBIC schema classes as is, and only adding additional layers of abstraction where absolutely needed -- representing bib records is one example 21:58 gmcharlt versus wrapping an layer over DBIC objects across the board 21:59 gmcharlt and enforcing non-DBIC in the .pl files 21:59 gmcharlt I hope I've represented the range fairly 21:59 ashimema that about covers the conversation from earlier gmcharlt 21:59 * cait agrees 21:59 rangi right 22:00 gmcharlt my personal view is the former 22:00 gmcharlt given that there's a lot of places that simply need to shovel data from DB to presentation 22:01 wajasu and i wanted to get tests written across the data access layer, possibly with NYTProf stats. 22:01 gmcharlt and other record types where only a few suplemntary methods would need to be added to the schema classes 22:01 mtompset Well, what was the purpose of bringing in the DBIC schema classes into Koha? Was it not DB-agnosticism? 22:01 gmcharlt I had made an action item for myself to write up some examples 22:01 rangi i agree 22:02 gmcharlt but I would appreciate if otehr folks would take up a small bit of functionality and also do some experimentation 22:02 rangi there is some in the elastic search stuff 22:03 gmcharlt one thing that seems reasonably clear to me, for example, is that adding some syntax sugar to concisely fetch a object of the appropriate schema type given a known idea would be nicer than Koha::Database->...->rs() 22:03 rangi yep 22:03 wajasu i did run Test:DBIx:Class::Schema against your master last week and it all ran through. 22:03 rangi sweet 22:03 rangi http://blogs.perl.org/users/ovid/2014/02/using-dbixclassschemaloader-to-find-design-flaws.html 22:03 rangi this is worth reading too 22:03 gmcharlt mtompset: DB-agnosticism, entering the OO-age, and reducing the need for manually-written SQL 22:04 gmcharlt but none of that is affected by the current discussion about how to structure use of DBIC 22:04 rangi exacterly 22:04 cait i think examples would be great 22:04 * ashimema looks forward to some examples that fall into the two camps. 22:05 ashimema cait.. you beat me to it again. 22:05 cait it didn't look too had when you showed us a bit at kohacon... but i haven't had a chance to look at it since 22:05 mtompset cait++ # always on the ball. 22:05 cait too hard... 22:06 gmcharlt OK, moving on 22:06 larryb apologies for joining late, but I wanted to throw out a comment regarding the index rebuild disk IO problem 22:06 gmcharlt #topic Pending Large Enhancements 22:06 gmcharlt larryb: please hold a few minutes if you don't mind 22:07 larryb sure gmcharlt 22:07 gmcharlt by large enhancements, I'm basically looking for works-in-progress that are hoped to make it in for 3.16 or 3.18, but which are not necessarily visible enough 22:07 gmcharlt and which are large enough or world-changing enough that a lot of special work may be required of the testers 22:07 gmcharlt the ones I know of include: 22:08 gmcharlt - ES 22:08 gmcharlt - the new cataloging editor 22:08 bag pianohacker: you here? 22:08 * ashimema hides.. it's at this point I brought up the logging bug in the last meeting 22:08 pianohacker yo 22:08 gmcharlt - Joobu's column-management stuff 22:08 rangi im pretty sure i wrote a patch using log4perl that did that, but i cant remember 22:08 bag alright if peeps have questions for pianohacker's rancor for large enhancements 22:08 rangi heres something to look at 22:09 gmcharlt particularly given the recent discusssions on the mailing list about ES, I want to make sure that we don't have folks quietly working on stuff 22:09 rangi bag: for pianohacker http://holloway.github.io/doctored/ 22:09 jcamins rangi: it's on the logging bug as an attachment. 22:09 * cait promises not to quietly work on world changing things :) 22:09 ashimema rangi: yeah, you did.. there's a passed qa bug that's really still in discussion.. hotely debated earlier 22:09 rangi click on document, then switch the schema to marc21 22:09 * bag has trouble being quiet :P 22:09 francharb_afk bye all 22:10 eythian_ ashimema: what is the logging bug? 22:10 bag ah pianohacker you catch that link from rangi ? 22:10 rangi ive been working on NCIP stuff, its kinda aside to Koha 22:10 ashimema we're working on a refactoring of borrower_imports, ColinC and I are trying to get EDI back on the playing field and i'm not sure where housebound is at from our front.. 22:10 rangi ie its not going to be committed to Koha 22:10 * ashimema thanks cait for reminding him about those 22:10 pianohacker rangi: yup, taking a look at it, very interesting 22:11 ashimema we're also working on ILL 22:11 bag ashimema: I'm very interested in the edi work - we've been using the stuff already submitted and not sure how much we've changed 22:11 rangi http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=working/NCIPServer.git;a=summary <-- here 22:11 rangi and 22:11 ashimema eythian_: bug 8190 22:11 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8190 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Passed QA , Add a logging module to Koha 22:11 rangi http://git.catalyst.net.nz/gw?p=NCIPServer.git 22:12 gmcharlt ashimema: say more about ILL? 22:12 eythian_ oh, I was thinking there was a bug in koha about logging :) 22:12 ashimema bag: I've spoken to khall about it.. we're on good ground with it at the moment between us. 22:12 bag awesome 22:12 ashimema should be a new patch shortly.. much cleaner and easier to maintain. 22:13 bag communication++ 22:13 cait communication++ 22:13 ashimema gmcharlt: ILL is not my baby i'm afraid.. colinc and mark have been working on it.. I believe it's currenty going through some refactoring to meet 3.16 guidlines 22:13 ashimema communication++ 22:14 gmcharlt ashimema: pointers to more information would be great, if you wouldn't mind poking them 22:14 pianohacker I can make a patch series fairly soon, but I'm curious as to what sort of functionality would be necessary for a first series; it can save to the catalog, edit existing editors, search, etc. 22:14 ashimema i've also got a rotating collections (of european style) under development.. but that won't be ready for a while... 22:14 gmcharlt it edits editors? wow! ;) 22:14 ashimema it's more thought than code at the mo. 22:15 ashimema i'll poke gmcharlt 22:15 pianohacker oh dangit 22:15 pianohacker *edit existing gmcharlts 22:15 cait pianohacker: waht i wondered - is rancor next to the existing interface for now or trying to replace? 22:15 gmcharlt pianohacker: permission denied 22:15 gmcharlt ;) 22:15 bag pianohacker: you are editing gmcharlt 22:16 pianohacker sudo rancor gmcharlt 22:16 gmcharlt pianohacker: the functions you've outlined (save to catalog, edit exiting records, and seach) sound plenty for a first cut 22:16 ashimema not 100% sure how current this is.. but colins ILL branch is at: https://github.com/colinsc/koha/tree/ill_wip 22:16 pianohacker cait: Stay next to; the old editor is intended to stay around as a basic editor 22:16 gmcharlt I *really* want something out there for folks to be actively testing outside of your demo environemtn 22:16 cait pianohacker: glad to hear that :) 22:16 ashimema it's been on hold for a few months with other priorities taking hold 22:16 cait we have small libraries not used to marc21 22:17 bag cool pianohacker submit some basics :) 22:17 pianohacker Yes, definitely. I'm working on polishing up the fixed field stuff a bit then I'll send it out 22:17 bag before marseille hackfest? 22:17 cait if it is next to existing, it could maybe be experimental 22:17 cait and if it's not messing up data :) 22:18 bag yes don't submit anything that messes up data 22:18 bag :) 22:18 cait :) 22:18 pianohacker yes, either this week or early next week 22:18 bag thanks :) 22:18 gmcharlt great 22:19 gmcharlt OK 22:19 pianohacker And it _should_ round trip cleanly, doesn't try to do anything fancy with whitespace or anything like that, and should be UTF-8 clean; are there any other likely issues? 22:19 gmcharlt pianohacker: eh, making sure it doesn't trim leading/trailing whitespace unexpectedly 22:19 cait pianohacker: translations? *hides* 22:19 gmcharlt e.g., from the fixed fields and the 010$a 22:19 gmcharlt ah, yes - i18n 22:19 bag cait let's talk about that and work on that at the hackfest 22:19 pianohacker gmcharlt: Yup, the LCCN was one of my concerns 22:20 pianohacker cait: I'm working hard to make it translatable, don't worry :) 22:20 gmcharlt #topic Next meeting 22:20 bag cait everything I've seen so far - isn't bad for translations 22:20 gmcharlt tenatively, a follow-up meeting has been agreed to 22:20 gmcharlt two-part like today, at 15UTC/21UTC on 12 March 2014 22:20 gmcharlt +1/-1 ? 22:20 wahanui -1 22:21 wajasu we also mentioned in prior meeting for ICU to maybe be the default for zebra. 22:21 gmcharlt right 22:21 rangi +1 22:22 pianohacker +1 22:22 cait +1 # does it count again? 22:22 eythian_ +1 22:22 gmcharlt cait: stop stuffing the ballot box ;) 22:22 cait sorry....:) 22:22 gmcharlt but seriously 22:22 gmcharlt #agreed Next dev meeting will be at 15UTC/21UTC on 12 March 2014 (pending confirmation from the second half of today's meeting) 22:23 bag +1 and good timing - during the hackfest 22:23 gmcharlt er 22:23 gmcharlt #agreed Next dev meeting will be at 15UTC/21UTC on 12 March 2014 (achivement unlocked: confirmation!) 22:23 gmcharlt #endmeeting 22:23 huginn` Meeting ended Tue Feb 25 22:23:25 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) 22:23 huginn` Minutes: http://meetings.koha-community.org/2014/koha_dev_meeting__25_february_2014_21_00_utc.2014-02-25-21.01.html 22:23 huginn` Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community.org/2014/koha_dev_meeting__25_february_2014_21_00_utc.2014-02-25-21.01.txt 22:23 huginn` Log: http://meetings.koha-community.org/2014/koha_dev_meeting__25_february_2014_21_00_utc.2014-02-25-21.01.log.html 22:24 cait thx gmcharlt :) 22:24 bag larryb: you still here 22:24 larryb I am 22:24 bag let's grab eythian_ and gmcharlt while they are still listening 22:24 bag and rangi 22:24 bag yes yes and the rest of you all too :) 22:24 bag heh 22:24 * eythian_ can't stay too long, I need to go to work soon, but I can be here for a few minutes or so. 22:24 larryb it was suggested earlier that we use ionice on the rebuild_zebra cron, do prevent the disk IO freeze-up 22:25 larryb I've already tried that, using ionice -c 2 -n 7 -t 22:25 wajasu if you index on a filesystem separate from others, you might look at changing some async, noatime, etc options. 22:25 larryb unfortunately it didn't help 22:25 gmcharlt larryb: to clarify, it didn't help in that other processes were visibily blocked? 22:26 larryb using ionice on the rebuild did not help, the system still froze up 22:26 eythian_ larryb: wouldn't -c 3 be better? 22:26 larryb that's why I posted the settings I used. 22:26 larryb to see if there were any suggestions for altering them 22:26 gmcharlt yeah, definitely trice -c 3 22:26 larryb I wasn't sure I wanted to go all the way to -c 22:27 gmcharlt *try 22:27 eythian_ though it would slow down rebuilding 22:27 larryb yeah, but we already use flock on it, so we don't have a problem with stacking rebuilds 22:27 * mtompset waves bye. 22:28 larryb for some sites we've gone as far as to turn rebuilding the in the afternoon, so a slower rebuild, if it doesn't freeze up the system, would be an improvement 22:28 mtompset Have a great day, #koha. :) 22:28 eythian_ you could also try nicing the rebuild process a bit. 22:28 larryb edit "turn rebuilding off in the afternoon" 22:29 larryb I can test ionice with -c 3 and see how much longer it takes for the same number of updates 22:30 larryb eythian_ would nicing rebuild really help much if we're already ionicing it? 22:30 eythian_ it might, it might not, I don't really know :) 22:30 larryb the problem doesn't seem to be the priority of the *process*, but just the disk IO 22:31 wajasu another option may be cgroups, if that is on your debian. http://www.janoszen.com/2013/02/06/limiting-linux-processes-cgroups-explained/ 22:31 wajasu http://fritshoogland.wordpress.com/2012/12/15/throttling-io-with-linux/ 22:31 larryb I'll check those out. thanks wajasu 22:32 * eythian_ has to go now, I'll be back on in ~30 minutes or so. 22:34 thd` rangi: Are you still here? 22:35 rangi yep, working on ncip 22:35 thd` gmcharlt had requested a topic focus so I had not continued earlier ... 22:36 thd` rangi: You had mention Koha's unusual use of a persistent connection with Zebra. 22:37 thd` The degree of persistence may certainly be unusual but one can err in the other direction. 22:38 mtj hey larryb , bag - re: the zebra disk problem, does moving zebra's /tmp dir to a ramdisk/ssd help things? 22:39 thd` rangi: My guess about the reason which the BibLibre Simple Server implementation never worked for me is that it would drop the connection before I could complete all the aspects of my request and obtain a final result set. 22:39 mtj i'm guessing the big IO is on the actual zebra index files, not any /tmp/* stuff 22:39 bag mtj: we haven't seen any problems with creating the /tmp files 22:39 ashimema ack.. connection died.. meeting still going on? 22:39 bag it's the actual merge of the .idx that causes the crazy I/O 22:39 bag ashimema: it's over brah 22:39 mtj yeah, ok… :/ 22:39 bag sorry :) 22:39 ashimema coolios. 22:40 bag but mtj is here and he loves to talk :D 22:40 ashimema i can go to bed then ;) 22:40 cait night ashimema :) 22:40 ashimema night cait.. 22:40 bag night night ashimema 22:40 ashimema lol.. night all 22:41 mtj bag, i guess you might need to resort to LVM to 'manage' system IO better…? 22:42 bag so mtj it's not so much of a problem for us - we just split zebra on a different disk - I'm just worried about the koha systems that can't afford to have two disks etc.... 22:42 mtj which is a pretty big hassle for the average library :/ 22:42 mtj yeah :/ 22:43 bag so this has to be known for all of us :D 22:43 mtj i have bumped into problems with zebra-indexing locking up the system, under load 22:44 mtj moving zebra to a new disk, fixed the problem nicely 22:45 mtj using an SSD would sort that problem, even better 22:46 mtj so, $100 for a 100GB SSD disk = problem solved :) 22:47 * mtj puts a positive spin on the problem :) 22:47 rhcl bag: more specifically are you putting mysql on a separate disk and/or only zebra? 22:47 mtj afaik only zebra ^^ 22:49 mtj bag, i guess if you system is busy enough to have a 'problematic' merge load, you can afford the SSD disk :p 22:49 mtj amirite? 22:49 wahanui http://zork.net/~spork/amirite.pdf 22:50 * dcook catches up on the logs 22:54 mtj i really thought ionice would have worked fine, on the zebra problem 22:55 rhcl I wonder if it happens enough to be regarded as a class-action problem? 22:58 mtj rhcl, curious, what is class-action? 22:59 rhcl ah, derrivation of US legal term meaning "broad problem" 22:59 rhcl I abused the term a bit 23:06 eythian hi 23:06 wahanui que tal, eythian 23:07 eythian seen tcohen 23:07 wahanui tcohen was last seen on #koha 5 hours, 5 minutes and 11 seconds ago, saying: bye #koha [Tue Feb 25 18:02:08 2014] 23:07 eythian @later tell tcohen I can take a look, though I can't promise I'll be useful :) where do I find it? 23:07 huginn` eythian: The operation succeeded. 23:46 dcook hehe