IRC log for #koha, 2014-01-21

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:01 dcook Damn, this is addictive...
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00:24 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
00:30 mtompset Okay... the OPAC XSLT stuff grabs the MARCXML field, parses and formats it, and then pumps it out to the opac-detail page.
00:31 mtompset If I want to HIDE fields, is there a nice way to do it without converting it to a marc record so I can fliter it against the marc_subfield_structure table for the biblio's frameworkcode?
00:32 eythian probably not
00:33 mtompset Okay, yuck. :)
00:33 mtompset Let the ugliness begin.
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00:58 mtompset Progress, but not quite.
00:58 eythian mtompset: what are you doing? because it sounds like something we will need soon also.
00:59 mtompset The properly hides things based on the hidden value in marc_subfield_structure
00:59 mtompset does not.
01:00 eythian ah
01:00 eythian yeah
01:00 mtompset I'm fixing it so will match
01:00 eythian if you make a nice generic function to filter marc, I'll be able to use that too.
01:00 mtompset So if you do crazy things like hide 100$a, it will.
01:00 eythian I'll be needing something so that logged in users have different rules to anon users.
01:00 mtompset different?!
01:01 mtompset That actually sounds like something WE could use. ;)
01:01 wizzyrea If you're gonna do it, should DO IT.
01:01 eythian basically, they want a public catalogue, but they want notes to be hidden unless you're logged in, as they are potentially a little politically inflammatory.
01:02 mtompset In our case, we want to hide authors which would link the book to an organization that some countries would be unhappy about. :)
01:03 mtompset or publishers. not everything, just not liked parts.
01:03 eythian ah yep
01:03 mtompset So, the hiding functionality needs to work properly across views.
01:03 eythian yeah, same here
01:04 mtompset If you give me a week, I'll have it all nicely up on bugzilla for you, eythian, so you can extend it as you want.
01:04 eythian that'd be cool
01:10 mtompset just my luck, the template toolkit website is timing out on me.
01:16 eythian doh
01:16 eythian might have docs in /usr/share/docs
01:16 eythian (I'm not sure)
01:19 dcook Yeah, the TT manual is on the system.
01:19 dcook Or at least some are...
01:19 * dcook was looking at them the other day
01:20 dcook -> /usr/lib/perl5/.../Template/Manual
01:21 dcook mtompset: ^
01:21 dcook At least, that's on my OpenSUSE
01:21 mtompset for future reference.
01:28 eythian so routing list notes are terribly broken.
01:29 eythian it looks like someone assumed they worked one way, when they in fact work a different way, and now they don't work at all.
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01:45 mtompset oh joy!
01:45 mtompset does anyone know how to DELETE a tag from a MARC::Record?
01:47 dcook MARC::Field documentation would tell you that, I believe
01:48 wizzyrea @quote add A sad story: "it looks like someone assumed they worked one way, when they in fact work a different way, and now they don't work at all."
01:48 huginn wizzyrea: The operation succeeded.  Quote #291 added.
01:49 wizzyrea an all too common story :((
01:50 mtompset That triggered this musical flashback
01:50 mtompset
02:02 eythian I'm not convinced the routing list notes have ever worked
02:02 eythian they seem to have been introduced in '06, and the queries look broken then.
02:04 wizzyrea ^ this is what I thought when I was looking at it, but didn't feel qualified to make any pronouncements :/
02:07 eythian Oh, I just make pronouncements and if I'm wrong, it's safe to assume that everyone has forgotten about them before long anyway.
02:07 dcook I think I've looked at the routing list notes, but only barely
02:19 * mtompset grins.
02:19 mtompset Question... if I decide to hide 260$a,b,c but not the other subfields of 260.
02:20 mtompset Should the label "Publisher:" show if nothing else is printed?
02:20 * wizzyrea strives to be more like eythian
02:20 mtompset -- this seems to be a pain to do in the XSLT stuffs.
02:20 eythian mtompset: if there are no other subfields, there should be no 260 in the resulting record.
02:21 eythian and so it should behave exactly as though there was no 260 to start with.
02:22 mtompset Hmm... the XSLT is still putting out Publisher, even if the 260 field is all hidden, which I suspect is not there.
02:22 mtompset (I delete fields when there are no subfields)
02:24 eythian mtompset: in that case, just leave it alone. It's not your problem, at least as part of this.
02:24 mtompset So, what is "<xsl:if test="marc:datafield[@tag=260]">" actually looking at?
02:24 eythian that ought to catch it.
02:24 mtompset It should.
02:25 mtompset OOOOO!
02:26 mtompset I have an idea... the delete_subfield fails on the last subfield.
02:26 eythian ahh
02:26 mtompset now to test that idea.
02:26 eythian I don't like that behaviour myself.
02:27 eythian I'd rather it either deleted it, and the field too, or issued an exception so you know you have to handle it.
02:27 mtompset I haven't tested the idea, but that's the only thing I can think of right now.
02:28 mtompset bingo!
02:29 mtompset Oh this is awesome. I'm really close now.
02:29 eythian awesome :D
02:29 mtompset Basically, opac/ grabs GetMarcBiblio.
02:29 mtompset This is a Marc::Record
02:30 mtompset I think delete fields/subfields based on hidden values from marc_subfield_structure
02:30 mtompset ^think^then^
02:31 eythian sounds like a good way to do it.
02:31 mtompset I then wrote a function which attempts to takes a partial kohafield and relate it back to the MARC fields/subfields.
02:32 mtompset And create a hash of whether it is hidden or not.
02:32 mtompset I did have to tweak, because it wasn't hiding title properly.
02:33 mtompset And had to tweak C4/ to delete out fields which have no subfields.
02:33 mtompset but it doesn't actually check hidden at all.
02:33 mtompset it's just a fix.
02:34 mtompset oh, and GetMarcSubjects... [ { '', undef } ] is useless to push.
02:34 mtompset so I added a check, so the Subjects hides correctly. :)
02:35 mtompset I suppose I should hide/unhide subtitle correctly in the template.
02:35 mtompset But it looks weird to hide the title and NOT the subtitle.
02:36 eythian mtompset: don't make semantic decisions
02:36 mtompset exactly.
02:36 eythian if people hide title and not subtitle, then that's their own problem.
02:36 mtompset exactly.
02:36 eythian and maybe they have a reason for it anyway
02:36 wizzyrea @quote get 123
02:36 wahanui
02:36 huginn wizzyrea: Quote #123: "rangi: #thingsihavelearnt if there is a mad scheme a library somewhere will be doing it ... except madder" (added by wizzyrea at 09:20 PM, March 30, 2011)
02:36 mtompset I can't think of a reason to hide the title and not the subtitle.
02:36 wizzyrea ^
02:36 eythian mtompset: I can.
02:36 eythian BRAIN WORMS!
02:36 mtompset Really?!
02:37 mtompset That doesn't count as a GOOD reason. :P
02:37 eythian you didn't ask for a good one
02:37 wizzyrea Things I've learned: it doesn't have to be a good reason, it just has to be a reason.
02:37 wizzyrea good reasons are better, of course :P
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02:46 mtompset but brain worms?! That's not even realistic. :P
02:54 eythian I beg to differ.
03:02 mtompset URL to a scientific study. :P
03:06 * wizzyrea recalls the study where toxoplasmosis makes rates run towards cats, instead of away
03:06 eythian
03:06 wizzyrea rats*
03:07 wizzyrea not quite a worm, but a parasite. :P
03:07 eythian toxoplasmosis is the disease
03:07 eythian Toxoplasma gondii is the parasite
03:08 wizzyrea just like you are nauseated, instead of nauseous.
03:08 mtompset oh shoot! This has side effects.
03:08 eythian wizzyrea: no, I'm nauseous, you're nauseated :)
03:08 wizzyrea well I meant it how I said it, but you're right now. ;)
03:09 mtompset GetCOinSBiblio -- triggers warnings when there is no 245 field. :)
03:09 wizzyrea you, a person, feel nauseated. Something else makes a person feel nauseous.
03:10 eythian No, something that is nauseous makes someone feel nauseated.
03:10 wizzyrea ^ that's saying the same thing, I think.
03:10 eythian I don't think so.
03:10 mtompset so is the former an adjective and the other a verb?
03:10 eythian you can't feel nauseous.
03:10 eythian mtompset: I think they're both adjectives
03:10 wizzyrea ugh, yes I know!
03:11 wizzyrea we're saying the same thing only I'm saying it poorly
03:11 eythian the nauseous cheese, the nauseated person.
03:11 eythian ah right
03:11 wizzyrea ^.^
03:13 mtompset Actually, I think you can feel nauseous, but wouldn't it be like "I think I'm feeling like I cause others to be nauseated"? ;)
03:13 eythian yes, that's true :)
03:16 mtompset What is GetCOinSBiblio for?
03:17 mtompset # COinS format FIXME: for books Only
03:18 mtompset <span class="Z3988" title="[% ocoins %]"></span>
03:19 mtompset Okay... some other technology which I must not touch.
03:21 eythian yeah, coins is a thing people use
03:22 eythian I think it lets browser plugins scrape a page for biblio daa
03:22 eythian *data
03:22 eythian so, e.g., citation managers.
03:22 eythian I think that's that one, anyway.
03:30 mtompset Well, if people do crazy things like hide 254$a, that's going to get floody in the error log.
03:31 eythian hmm, it'd be nice if it didn't, if it's an easy fix, I guess.
03:31 eythian if it's not an easy fix, then I'd say it's safe to ignore.
03:53 eythian do authorities always use DOM?
03:56 dcook eythian: I think there's an option but that DOM might've been the default for a while?
03:57 eythian I'm trying to figure it out.
03:58 eythian ahh
03:59 eythian I was looking in the template, but not realising that it had variables in there, so my searches weren't working.
03:59 eythian silly me
04:10 mtompset okay... if I can figure out why XSLT vs. non-XSLT differs in hiding the subtitle, I'll post up my patch.
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04:24 eythian you know what we haven't had in a while: test failures when building packages.
04:24 eythian I like this.
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04:35 mtompset okay... dumb question.
04:35 wahanui there are no dumb questions.
04:35 mtompset What is the point of fieldmapping vs. marc_subfield_structure?
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04:39 mtompset Does anyone actually have anything in their fieldmapping table?
04:40 eythian I tend to grep through the code and see where it's being used, in those cases.
04:41 eythian I just checked on db and it was empty
04:47 dcook mtompset: We use it on our 3.8, but that's for some local stuff that I want to eliminate
04:47 dcook Maybe
04:47 dcook I'm probably lying
04:47 mtompset which is part of my confusion.
04:47 mtompset I also noticed I don't have a 254$b in my BKS framework.
04:47 dcook Mmm, I think it should have subtitle in it at the very least
04:48 mtompset in marc_subfield_structure.
04:48 dcook 254 or 245?
04:48 wahanui 255
04:48 dcook Love you too, wahanui
04:48 wahanui dcook: i'm not following you...
04:48 mtompset I'm pretty sure 254.
04:48 mtompset because 254$a is title, and 254$b is subtitle.
04:49 mtompset well, remainder of title.
04:49 dcook[…]oncise/bd254.html
04:49 dcook $a - Musical presentation statement
04:49 dcook[…]oncise/bd245.html
04:49 dcook $a - Title (NR)
04:49 dcook $b - Remainder of title (NR)
04:49 dcook :)
04:49 mtompset okay, okay...
04:49 mtompset I'm lysdexic. :P
04:49 dcook That said, they should both be there anyway :p
04:59 mtompset oh... is anyone else getting a C4::Context modulus error on line 1250?
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05:16 cait morning magnuse
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05:41 Bahruz good morning
05:52 mtompset Anyone want a quick sign off? :)
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06:05 mtompset Could someone else confirm this problem. 3.14.x Koha/List/ uses IsSuperLibrarian, but C4/ does not have that function.
06:08 mtompset @later tell gmcharlt Please confirm 3.14.x Koha/List/ use of IsSuperLibrarian against C4/'s lack of that function. bug 10565? Not sure.
06:08 huginn mtompset: The operation succeeded.
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06:26 mtompset Have a great day (24 hour period), #koha.
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06:38 cait @wunder Konstanz
06:38 huginn cait: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 3.1°C (7:35 AM CET on January 21, 2014). Conditions: Light Rain. Humidity: 94%. Dew Point: 2.0°C. Windchill: 3.0°C. Pressure: 29.83 in 1010 hPa (Rising).
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07:17 * magnuse waves
07:17 cait @wunder Konstanz
07:17 huginn cait: The current temperature in Konstanz, Germany is 3.0°C (8:00 AM CET on January 21, 2014). Conditions: Light Rain. Humidity: 88%. Dew Point: 2.0°C. Pressure: 29.88 in 1012 hPa (Rising).
07:18 magnuse @wunder boo
07:19 huginn magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is -2.0°C (7:50 AM CET on January 21, 2014). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 43%. Dew Point: -13.0°C. Windchill: -11.0°C. Pressure: 30.12 in 1020 hPa (Steady).
07:19 magnuse windchill--
07:19 magnuse and hiya cait
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07:23 mram3 hi everybody
07:24 mram3 it's normal that the script link bibs to authorities runs ok with dom indexing, but not with grs1?
07:25 mram3 bareword "geographicsubdiv" it's indexed with dom but not with grs1? , I'm right?
07:25 jcamins Yes.
07:25 jcamins That is normal.
07:25 cait jcamins: go to sleep.
07:25 mram3 thnk you ¡
07:26 jcamins GRS-1 indexing can't handle headings.
07:26 dcook Great Scot!
07:26 dcook jcamins: 2:26am?
07:26 jcamins cait: I'm running link_bibs_to_authorities...
07:26 mram3 it was driving me crazy...
07:26 mram3 ok
07:26 jcamins And, errr, finishing my book.
07:28 cait sleep? :)
07:29 jcamins 12k records to go. I have some other scripts I want to kick off when this is done.
07:34 cait bbiab
07:34 cait go to sleep jared!
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07:37 reiveune hello
07:37 wahanui niihau, reiveune
07:38 * magnuse waves to jcamins and reiveune
07:38 * dcook should go home but is reading about GPG
07:38 * dcook waves to reiveune and magnuse\
07:39 * reiveune just say "hello" to dcook magnuse rangi kathryn
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07:49 magnuse bonojur paul_p
07:50 magnuse s/bonojur/bonjour/
07:54 dcook Yay! All the way through the GPG user manual!
07:54 dcook Outdated but mostly good!
07:54 magnuse dcook: yay! now you just have to start using it? :-)
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07:55 dcook Yarp!
07:55 dcook I'm not entirely how best to do that at this point
07:55 dcook I mean...I have a work computer and a home computer which would be two different identities...
07:55 alex_a bonjour
07:55 wahanui hi, alex_a
07:55 dcook Well, not necessarily two identities
07:57 paxed is it just me, or is the sample frequency nro 7 wrong? ('1/month', 'month', 1, 1, 7) but [% IF ( subscription_LOO.periodicity7 ) %]3 months
08:04 dcook Mmm, I could just have a subkey on my work computer..
08:05 paul_p good morning #koha
08:06 dcook bon matin, paul_p
08:08 paul_p hello dcook (in french, we don't say "bon matin", we only have "bonjour" ("good day") and "bonsoir" ("good evening") -in one word- )
08:09 paul_p and we usually switch from "bonjour" to "bonsoir" when the sun goes down, so the hour depends on the season
08:09 dcook (Interesting! Thanks for the tip :D)
08:10 dcook Is "bonne nuit" just for when you're about to go to sleep?
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08:11 Joubu hi
08:11 wahanui privet, Joubu
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08:21 gaetan_B hello
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08:43 Joubu thank you cait for passing qa on 7825! :)
08:46 cait np
08:46 cait hope it's ok and i didn't miss something :)
09:02 magnuse bug 7825
09:02 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7825 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Passed QA , Change OPACItemHolds syspref to be of type Choice, choices being "no", "yes", "force"
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09:10 MrAgent075 Evening all, who have we got tonight?
09:11 cait hm? :)
09:11 cait hi MrAgent075
09:12 MrAgent075 hi cait, how's it goin'?
09:13 cait tuesday morning, long to do list :)
09:14 cait how are you doing?
09:26 MrAgent075 I'm doin' alright. Might get back into the work tomorrow - resetting routers a thousand times is not the best thing to sit through... :/
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11:22 cait magnuse++
11:34 magnuse cait: huh?
11:35 cait email to dev list
11:38 magnuse ah, we get pluses for asking dumb questions? ;-)
12:22 cait pluses for communicating
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12:32 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
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12:58 francharb good morning
13:00 magnuse khall++ for answering
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13:08 tcohen_ morning #koha
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13:19 magnuse hola tcohen_
13:19 tcohen_ hi magnuse !
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13:26 oleonard Hi #koha
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13:30 magnuse wheee
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13:32 magnuse sophie_m: could be :-)
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13:40 tcohen morning?
13:40 wahanui morning is, like, a state of cat
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14:00 tcohen fridolin?
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14:02 fridolin joined #koha
14:02 fridolin hie all
14:03 * cait waves
14:05 * druthb waves
14:05 tcohen hi cait druthb
14:05 tcohen druthb: did my email reach koha-translate?
14:06 cait the one about arabic?
14:06 cait i saw something form you
14:07 druthb tcohen:  yup!
14:08 tcohen good
14:08 tcohen its just that I expected being flooded by answers heh
14:09 druthb The Arabic community for Koha is not large, partly because of issues like that one.  Give it a little time.
14:09 druthb a hunt through the archives for Karam might get his address, and you could write him directly.
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14:22 magnuse i think i found a problem at the intersection of DBIC and koha-gitify:
14:22 magnuse no time for proper testing at the moment, though
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14:40 tcohen cait: there are 32 strings to translate in german 3.12
14:41 cait that's not much :)
14:41 cait i amon it
14:44 druthb super-cait!
14:52 tcohen portuguese translator?
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15:36 mtompset Karam? He's trying to link to me on LinkedIn. ;)
16:02 tcohen Joubu: steps to reproduce?
16:02 wahanui steps to reproduce are on comment 1
16:03 Joubu tcohen: I applied yours patches, launch a search and... that's all
16:03 tcohen UNIMARC grs-1?
16:03 tcohen or DOM?
16:03 wahanui DOM is the answer...
16:03 Joubu tcohen: grs1
16:04 Joubu unimarc
16:05 tcohen
16:09 cait translations are all done :)
16:13 druthb cait++
16:13 druthb hm.
16:13 druthb @most increased
16:13 huginn druthb: "gmcharlt": 18, "cait": 11, "oleonard": 9, "rangi": 8, "khall": 5, "magnuse": 5, "jcamins": 5, "tcohen": 5, "eythian": 5, "Joubu": 4, "petter": 3, "francesca": 3, "community": 3, "fridolin": 3, "davidnind": 3, "wizzyrea": 3, "druthb": 3, "ashimema": 3, "paul_p": 2, "ebegin": 2, "MrAgent075": 2, "pianohacker": 2, "jatara": 2, "*+++++++++": 1, and "davidtennant": 1
16:19 fridolin see you
16:19 fridolin left #koha
16:20 mtompset YAY! I'm not on the hit list of blame. ;)
16:24 mtompset ARG! Just when I thought I was good... [ view plain ] has to come along!
16:36 cait left #koha
16:42 mtompset How do I turn the contents of marcxml into a MARC::Record?
16:42 mtompset (and vice versa)
16:55 reiveune bye
16:55 reiveune left #koha
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16:59 Joubu mtompset: MARC::Record->new_from_xml ?
16:59 JesseM joined #koha
16:59 JesseM Hello
16:59 Bahruz hi all
17:00 Joubu hi / bye :)
17:00 Joubu left #koha
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17:07 gaetan_B bye !
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18:07 * magnuse waves
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18:56 * mtompset struggles to stay away.
18:56 mtompset stay AWAKE.
18:57 druthb lolz
18:57 mtompset Just caught the tail portion of a meeting online.
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19:39 mtompset oh come on! I hide 0,3,5, and 8!
19:40 * mtompset yells at his VM.
19:41 * oleonard shakes his walking stick menacingly at mtompset's VM
19:41 mtompset Try something crazy... uncheck the visibility for 0,3,5, and 8.
19:42 mtompset Then go look at opac-MARCdetail for that framework.
19:42 mtompset click [ view plain]
19:42 mtompset Still shows!
19:44 oleonard Is this surprising because you simply expect things to work or because the script appears to be written such that it should work?
19:45 mtompset I've been fixing this whole hiding mess.
19:45 mtompset I hid everything for this one record I'm looking at.
19:46 mtompset except 999$c, 999$d, and 245$b.
19:46 mtompset I suppose the conversion from MARC::Record back to MARCXML probably creates those.
19:47 magnuse sounds like something gmcharlt would know :-)
19:50 mtompset oh... perhaps I have to code the @ trick.
19:54 magnuse mtompset scores an 'at-trick!
19:54 * druthb rolls her eyes.
19:56 * magnuse watches druthb's eyes rolling past his desk
19:57 druthb lol
20:00 mtompset Sorry... only a partial @ trick.
20:00 mtompset Still working on the LEADER field. ;)
20:00 mtompset But that was it. :)
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20:46 mtompset I'm going to give up on trying to hide the leader record.
20:46 mtompset I got everything else workings, as far as I know.
20:46 mtompset I mean leader field.
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20:52 rhcl @seen bag
20:52 rhcl huggin?
20:52 wahanui i think huggin is a bot
20:52 rhcl yea, well, where is (s)he?
20:53 rhcl @wunder 64507
20:53 rhcl d* bot is off on a bender somewhere
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21:14 tcohen @seen Joubu
21:15 wizzyrea you will note that huginn is not in the user list at the moment.
21:15 wizzyrea ping gmcharlt, when you have a moment, huginn needs a kick :)
21:18 tcohen oh, thanks wizzyrea
21:21 pablito joined #koha
21:22 pablito hi all
21:23 pablito my koha 3.14 doesn't send overdue messages to patrons
21:23 pablito the triggers are setup
21:23 pablito but the process table is not populated
21:33 tcohen joined #koha
21:40 wizzyrea Does anyone out there have a (hopefully nice) comment about the work the academy kids did?
21:40 wizzyrea hehe.
21:45 gmcharlt joined #koha
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21:49 wizzyrea there he is!
21:49 rhcl bum
21:49 gmcharlt @quote random
21:49 huginn gmcharlt: Quote #15: "<|Lupin|>ricardo: you are like the Portuguese Hitchcock!!" (added by wizzyrea at 02:58 PM, July 10, 2009)
21:49 rhcl @seen bag
21:49 huginn rhcl: bag was last seen in #koha 1 week, 4 days, 22 hours, 34 minutes, and 19 seconds ago: * bag makes a loud banging noise
21:49 wizzyrea pablito: I'm going to guess you have the cron jobs set up?
21:50 pablito the is already setup by default
21:51 pablito wizzyrea: now, I try to run that script manually and it gives me this error: unable to locate Koha configuration file koha-conf.xml at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/ line 372.
21:51 pablito Can't call method "config" on unblessed reference at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/ line 797.
21:52 eythian pablito: how have you installed Koha?
21:52 wizzyrea also wb gmcharlt
21:53 pablito eythian: I did apt-get install koha-common in Ubuntu
21:53 eythian OK
21:53 eythian do you have email configured on your server.
21:53 eythian ?
21:53 pablito that's the thing, I remember ever setting up the email server for Koha
21:53 pablito I DON'T remember ...
21:54 pablito it didn't ask me to setup the email server
21:58 wizzyrea why oh why do we still allow the DB user to log in to the regular staff client. Why. WHY.
21:59 pablito wizzyrea: ???
21:59 wizzyrea it's not related to you ;)
22:00 wizzyrea unless you are loggin in as the database user. In which case, don't do that.
22:00 eythian wizzyrea: because if you didn't, you couldn't create a user.
22:00 wizzyrea logging*
22:00 wizzyrea then there needs to be another mechanism for that.
22:00 eythian it's also very handy for nipping in and tweaking a syspref
22:01 wizzyrea I agree that it's handy for power users.
22:01 eythian pablito: have a look at a user that should have got an email, see if it's in there and marked as sent.
22:01 wizzyrea for people who know better than to circ with that account.
22:02 eythian wizzyrea: There is a big screamy warning now, don't know if it works though.
22:02 wizzyrea it doesn't
22:02 wizzyrea bug 11590
22:02 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=11590 critical, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Needs Signoff , Librarian able to checkout item without setting branch first
22:03 wizzyrea GIANT WARNING ... does it anyway.
22:03 eythian pablito: if it says it has sent, then you probably have a misconfigured mail server on your system.
22:03 pablito eythian: where do I check for the message or the status "sent"?
22:04 tcohen_ pablito: apt-cache policy postfix
22:05 eythian http://manual.koha-community.o[…]ninformation.html <-- pablito, section 9.7
22:06 * eythian wishes you could link to sections
22:06 pablito tcohen_: Here's what I got after running that command:
22:06 pablito postfix:  Installed: (none)  Candidate: 2.9.6-1~12.04.1  Version table:     2.9.6-1~12.04.1 0        500 precise-updates/main i386 Packages     2.9.1-4 0        500 precise/main i386 Packages
22:10 eythian wizzyrea: that's also part of the reason we never give out the database passwords, so end users _shouldn't_ be able to do that. Also, giving out database passwords strikes me as a terrible idea.
22:11 pablito eythian: hmm, sect 9.7 it doesn't really tell me how to get to the message list
22:11 wizzyrea having the login be the db password seems like a bad idea to me :/
22:11 wizzyrea at all, ever.
22:11 wizzyrea except maybe for upgrades.
22:11 eythian wizzyrea: it's how you configure things
22:12 eythian pablito: it's the notices tab on the left hand side when you're viewing a user.
22:12 wizzyrea yea, I'm thinking of a mechanism by which you add a user and define your first library at install time
22:12 wizzyrea add a user, define your first library, and your first circ rule.
22:12 eythian wizzyrea: it'd make life a lot harder for us
22:12 pablito eythian: ah, I saw that there was no message.
22:12 eythian wizzyrea: because now we have no sure way of logging in ever
22:13 wizzyrea right, I thought of that as well - which could lead to things like a "vendor mode" which has a pre-defined login added as part of the koha-sites or something
22:13 eythian and then someone deletes it or something.
22:14 eythian dollars to doughnuts it'll just cause people to get stuck, and piles of questions asking how to log in the first time.
22:14 wizzyrea yep, it would have to be undeletable
22:14 wizzyrea ok, for arguments sake
22:14 wizzyrea wordpress requires a user be defined by the person installing at install time
22:15 wizzyrea it comes with a default username, highly suggesting you change it
22:15 wizzyrea allows the user to set the password then
22:15 wizzyrea it's an ok workflow, I think
22:16 eythian yeah, but we need a separation between "users we have" and "users they have" so that they can't lock us out.
22:16 wizzyrea right, I think that falls into what I might think of as "vendor mode"
22:17 wizzyrea rather like the wordpress multisites, a user of a site can't delete the administrator of the overall site
22:17 gmcharlt spitballing -- is "you must give us shell access on request in order to support you" a solution for you?
22:18 eythian gmcharlt: no, because we have shell access :) but often need to log in to flip a syspref or something. The easy way of doing that is to look up the password in koha-conf and log in using that to do it.
22:18 gmcharlt especially since it might solve the following problem from the user's POV: "my vendor has somehow gotten their internal database of credentials compromised, and I want to change all the passwords until they sort it out"
22:19 gmcharlt eythian: indeed, that's the easy way ;)
22:20 gmcharlt possibly an obvious step forward: even if we keep a koha-conf.xml-defined superlibrarian account, there is zero reason why it *has* to be based on the DB credentials
22:21 gmcharlt it can just be a username and password
22:21 eythian There is an issue with having a default database user like some install guides show, as it's hard to change and easy for someone to figure out.
22:21 gmcharlt although -- convenience aside -- it really ought to be hashed
22:21 wizzyrea ^ is kind of what I was thinking, a user added by koha-sites, and possibly flagged as undeletable
22:21 wizzyrea password randomly generated
22:22 wizzyrea different from the db user
22:22 eythian a similar option would be to have a user/pw in there that maps to a specially flagged user in the db that can't be deleted.
22:22 eythian if it is deleted, then it falls back into the current partially broken mode to allow you to recover it.
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22:23 wizzyrea I guess you can't guarantee that your first user won't be deleted if you say, truncate borrowers.
22:23 wizzyrea but wp would have the same issue. I've never tried it
22:23 eythian yeah exactly
22:24 wizzyrea idk what it does there.
22:24 wizzyrea I suspect it would be massively broken and you'd have to do gymnastics to get out of that situation
22:24 gmcharlt there has to be *some* point where one just sighs, and fires up koha-mysql ;)
22:24 wizzyrea well and if the #1 user doesn't exist
22:24 wizzyrea why wouldn't it just prompt you to create a new one?
22:25 eythian then anyone could just create an admin user
22:25 wizzyrea or "go set a variable in your conf to allow creation of a new user"
22:25 eythian (assuming it got deleted)
22:25 wizzyrea that's kind of like koha-mysql, you can do anything if you have sudo on the server
22:26 wizzyrea honestly it could go on the way it is, it's just... it seems it could be better. clearly the warning isn't being heeded.
22:26 * dcook whilst stumbling upon this conversation :
22:26 wizzyrea (actually I just a couple of weeks ago had a library that was using the DB user systematically as their only staff account.)
22:27 dcook (O_O)
22:27 wizzyrea it might have worked ok in 3.2, but 3.14? yea, naw, that won't really do.
22:27 eythian wizzyrea: not one of ours I hope?
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22:28 wizzyrea not one on our servers, no.
22:28 eythian that's why I'd be quite happy to turn off things like the circ function. And/or having an overlay that you have to click through on the main screen that tells you why you're a bad person for doing this.
22:28 dcook ^
22:29 wizzyrea to be fair, most places catch you if you try to do something that say, requires a branch
22:29 wizzyrea like circ.
22:29 wizzyrea this one spot, didn't
22:29 wizzyrea but I feel that's enabling people to do the thing we don't want them to do
22:30 eythian well, that's not hte whole problem. Not having a borrower account can cause problems.
22:30 wizzyrea yea, there's bad all over the place with the DB user.
22:31 wizzyrea probably instead of prompting to select a branch, we should just take them to the add user page. :P With giant red arrows "TICK HERE. AND HERE. AND DO THIS."
22:31 wizzyrea that's probably overkill ;)
22:34 eythian well, it's also good should someone do something with a syspref that locks them out or something
22:34 eythian I'd think blocking access to anything other than admin, borrowers, and so forth would be good. Along with a message saying why they're not available.
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22:43 wizzyrea either way, what started this whole thing was someone doing something they were told not to, then marking it critical. :P
22:43 wizzyrea that's like reading the law, breaking it anyway, then being mad at the people who wrote the law.
22:44 wizzyrea because they let you break ti.
22:44 wizzyrea fortunately, we are in the lovely position of rigidly defining the law so that it can't be broken. :P
22:53 magnuse joined #koha
22:58 cjh magnuse: just replied to your github koha-gitify issue :)
23:07 cait joined #koha
23:08 * cait waves
23:08 rhcl waves
23:08 * eythian calms
23:09 rhcl calms waves?
23:10 eythian well everyone else was waving, but it's not very windy outside.
23:11 rhcl ah, compare - contrast
23:13 cait :)
23:15 eythian gmcharlt: there seems to be a versioning issue with MARC-XML 1.0.2, debian things are seeing it as 1..2.
23:15 eythian I can work around it, and don't know where it's coming from, so just fyi
23:16 gmcharlt noted, thanks
23:18 BigRig joined #koha
23:21 eythian libmarc-xml-perl packages updated.
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