IRC log for #koha, 2013-09-03

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:44 dcook joined #koha
01:04 rangi @quote random
01:04 huginn` rangi: Quote #35: "<sekjal> it seemed like a good idea at the time...." (added by jwagner at 06:58 PM, September 17, 2009)
02:58 rangi @quote get 273
02:58 huginn` rangi: Quote #273: "rangi: The main thing I came to realise is -- 'Your cataloguing standards are bad, and you should feel bad' - which translates to - 'friends don't let friends use RDA'" (added by wizzyrea at 01:04 AM, August 30, 2013)
02:59 rangi ibeardslee: ^^
02:59 dcook hehe
02:59 wizzyrea your good ones always end in 3
03:19 ibeardslee rangi: is that in relation to that other discussion?
03:20 rangi that was in relation to the 'dont design a cataloguing standard thing, when stephen said think of yourself as a librarian'
03:20 ibeardslee ahh
03:34 eythian wahanui: two kinds of people
03:34 wahanui eythian: i'm not following you...
03:35 eythian wahanui: two kinds of people is those who belive in false dichotomies, and everyone else.
03:35 wahanui eythian: bugger all, i dunno
03:35 eythian wahanui: two kinds of people is those \who belive in false dichotomies, and everyone else.
03:35 wahanui OK, eythian.
03:35 dcook hehe
03:50 wizzyrea 10 kinds of people are those who understand binary, and those who don't.
04:24 eythian[…]hat-thing-he-s-on <-- wizzyrea
04:25 wizzyrea hehe
04:33 dac joined #koha
04:34 dac Hmm
04:34 dcook yata!
05:31 cait joined #koha
05:31 dcook make me a little crazy...
05:31 dcook hey ya cait :)
05:32 dcook Actually, maybe it's just the code I'm looking at right now which is mindboggling bad...
05:32 cait hi dcook
06:31 cait bbl :)
06:32 dcook ta cait :)
06:32 rangi[…]74781442825256961
06:32 reiveune joined #koha
06:33 reiveune hello
06:33 wahanui hello, reiveune
06:33 cait lol
06:33 cait no idea what accessit is
06:34 dcook Me either
06:34 * dcook is looking up info
06:35 dcook So far I'm getting a buzzwords and pure marketing.
06:35 cait hm yeah and microsort
06:35 cait microsoft
06:35 cait but i have to go :)
06:35 cait brb
06:35 rangi its some nz schools thing
06:36 rangi
06:36 dcook Yeah, that's the link I'm reading now
06:36 dcook Visiting rather
06:38 rangi im never really one for feature vs feature comparisons, specially when its apples to oranges, like free software vs proprietary
06:38 rangi features are for today, freedom is forever
06:39 dcook True that
06:41 dcook Not really digging their website. It's very  much "Buy our software. It's on the Internet!"
06:41 dcook I don't know. Once you go open source, I don't know why you'd want to go back.
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06:59 gaetan_B joined #koha
06:59 gaetan_B hello
07:00 kf joined #koha
07:01 lds joined #koha
07:20 * kf waves
07:21 rangi hi gaetan_B abd kf
07:21 kf hi rangi :)
07:25 drojf joined #koha
07:25 dcook Hey ya drojf
07:25 dcook Night everyone else
07:25 drojf good morning #koha
07:25 drojf dcook is too fast for at this time of day
07:26 kf :)
07:26 kf morning drojf
07:26 kf did you write your 3 pages?
07:26 rangi hi drojf
07:26 drojf hi kf and rangi
07:26 drojf i wanted four ;) i think i got more but i did not latexify it yet
07:27 kf i just wanted to be nice ;)
07:28 drojf :)
07:33 rangi gaetan_B: can you get croinuts in marseille ?
07:33 gaetan_B croinuts ?
07:33 rangi its a cross between a donut and a croissant
07:33 gaetan_B o_O
07:34 gaetan_B never heard of those
07:34 gaetan_B i'll look out for them then !
07:34 rangi
07:34 rangi they are really really good :)
07:34 gaetan_B i'm in paris so it might be easier to find them here
07:34 rangi ahh true
07:35 rangi it's lucky that bakery is not on my way to work
07:35 rangi or i would eat them every day
07:35 paul_p joined #koha
07:37 gaetan_B is it new zealand english or are they actually writing english in the french style
07:37 gaetan_B "our dear customers"
07:37 gaetan_B ?
07:38 rangi english in the french style :)
07:38 rangi i think they only moved to nz about 5 years ago
07:38 gaetan_B ok :)
07:39 rangi  <-- this is my favourite french cafe in wellington
07:41 kf rangi: if you ate them every day i would be worried about your health
07:41 kf but i bet they are delicious
07:42 kf all evil things are :)
07:42 drojf "the Cronut (the name is trademarked)". so "croinuts" is the free and open source bakeware version?
07:42 rangi must be
07:43 drojf :)
07:45 drojf 'cronuts are "a bold step forward for pastry,"' <-- rofl
07:46 gaetan_B actually the idea of deep frying a croissant is quite outrageous if you ask me :D
07:46 rangi hehe
07:46 rangi paul_p: are you on the code4lib mailing list?
07:47 paul_p hi rangi. Yes I do, except I don't read all the messages, there are too many
07:47 rangi[…]edu/msg20174.html
07:48 paul_p lol :D
07:49 kf paul_p: guess you have to come up with a plan on how to import french cheese into US now - although I think they probably don't let you in with dangerous things like that :)
07:49 rangi oh yes
07:49 paul_p strange, I have no message since aug 28th
07:49 rangi[…]edu/msg20175.html
07:50 paul_p kf = yes I will. I already tried in 2009, and having some cheese properly packed is OK. at least it was for this man that was on the borders ;-)
07:50 rangi :)
07:51 kf paul_p: i might try swiss chocolate - even if i am not directly in switzerland - but maybe it counts that you can just cross the border from the inner city :)
07:54 gerundio joined #koha
08:23 drojf1 joined #koha
08:33 drojf @wunder berlin, germany
08:33 huginn` drojf: The current temperature in Alter Schlachthof, Berlin, Germany is 16.9°C (10:30 AM CEST on September 03, 2013). Conditions: Light Drizzle. Humidity: 93%. Dew Point: 16.0°C. Pressure: 30.18 in 1022 hPa (Steady).
08:33 rangi @wunder nzwn
08:33 huginn` rangi: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 10.0°C (8:00 PM NZST on September 03, 2013). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 76%. Dew Point: 6.0°C. Pressure: 30.21 in 1023 hPa (Steady).
08:40 kf @wunder Konstanz
08:40 huginn` kf: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 17.7°C (10:40 AM CEST on September 03, 2013). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 74%. Dew Point: 13.0°C. Pressure: 30.36 in 1028 hPa (Steady).
08:40 * kf wins
10:52 vfernandes joined #koha
10:54 vfernandes hi :)
10:54 vfernandes guys i'm having a strange problem in koha 3.12
10:56 vfernandes if I try to add one item to one migrated record the items cataloguing fields appear
10:57 vfernandes if I create a new record, when trying to add new items the items cataloguing fields are hidden
10:57 vfernandes what could be?
10:59 vfernandes wait... my bad :/ the models are different and the subfields are invisible in the editor
11:10 trendynick joined #koha
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11:37 jwagner joined #koha
11:40 samueld joined #koha
11:40 samueld hi everybody :-)
11:42 samueld i've a question: when i enabled the system preferences "patronimages", photo of borrower can be imported in koha but where these photos are located in koha? Where i have to define the source where i dowload photos?
11:50 vfernandes they are saved in the database
11:51 vfernandes patronimages table or something like that
11:51 drnoe joined #koha
11:51 kf samueld: there is a tool for mass uploading and you can upload the photo from the patron record
11:51 kf samueld: there is no automated download
11:52 kf samueld: the photos are stored in a database table linked to your borrower record, i think it's patronimages
11:53 vfernandes for mass uploading you need to have a zip file with the images, where each image needs to have borrowernumber as name
11:53 kf oh sorry vfernandes - i missed your answer
11:54 kf should read more carefully
11:54 vfernandes kf I've already solved my problem
11:55 vfernandes the subfields where hidden in one framework
11:55 vfernandes thanks anyway :)
11:56 samueld thank you vfernandes :-)
11:59 collum joined #koha
12:29 tcohen joined #koha
12:32 tcohen morning #koha
12:35 tcohen @later tell dcook, please share your merge. it looks like the ajax call is not given a json content-type
12:35 huginn` tcohen: The operation succeeded.
12:37 Dyrcona joined #koha
12:49 druthb o/
12:52 tcohen hi druthb
12:53 druthb hi, tcohen. :)
12:53 kf hi dc
12:53 kf hi druthb and tcohen
12:54 tcohen #koha: is HTML5 stuff like file drag and drop acceptable for the staff interface?
12:54 tcohen (cover images upload)
12:55 tcohen please, don't flood the IRC with your responses :-P
12:55 tcohen hi kf
13:06 kf tcohen: i thik jcamins did something with drag and drop for the opac plugins
13:06 talljoy joined #koha
13:06 kf i am a bit worried about accessibility - not sure if you could do a fallback?
13:07 tcohen we currently have a way to upload cover images on the tools section
13:08 tcohen a fallback mode can be done, using a simple file upload dialog i guess
13:12 kf if there is another way that seems ok, but i am not really an expert
13:12 kf file upload sounds good too
13:15 jcamins I don't really see any problems with accessibility.
13:16 kf cool :)
13:16 kf hm
13:16 jcamins If your browser doesn't support HTML5, you're going to have problems no matter what.
13:16 kf someon else having problems accessing git?
13:17 kf ah now it worked :)
13:26 kf powerpoint--
13:27 tcohen impress 4.1 worked great for me
13:36 kf tcohen: the problem is always the drawings and diagrams for me
13:37 mtompset joined #koha
13:37 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
13:38 kf tcohen: using existing slides
13:38 lds joined #koha
13:38 mtompset Greetings, kf tcohen lds. :)
13:41 khall joined #koha
13:44 druthb Hi, mtompset! :)
13:45 mtompset Greetings, druthb. :)
13:45 tcohen hi mtompset
14:00 maximep joined #koha
14:10 McCloud joined #koha
14:27 McCloud Is anyone here familiar with how Git or GitHub is set up during the Debian package install process?
14:30 mtompset I thought it was on the wiki page.
14:31 mtompset oh... packages don't set up git.
14:31 rambutan joined #koha
14:32 mtompset git?
14:32 wahanui hmmm... git is[…]Control_Using_Git
14:32 mtompset That page is probably best for you, if you intend to install a development system.
14:33 mtompset packages?
14:33 wahanui i heard packages was at
14:33 mtompset That page is best if you are doing a production system installation. :)
14:33 kf McCloud: do you want to do development?
14:40 McCloud I'm trying to understand this concept of version control system on my Debian system, compared to say a Ubuntu system. I basically want to know if setting up Debian installs Git or is it set up during the install of Koha?
14:40 jcamins McCloud: no. Ideally installing Koha for production should never involve version control.
14:41 jcamins And development is not particularly tied to the Linux flavor, though you'll have a lot more luck with with Koha using Debian/Ubuntu/Mint than using Fedora/CentOS/RHEL.
14:41 kf McCloud: you only need git if you want to do local changes/development.
14:43 McCloud thank you
14:46 jcamins McCloud: there is a tool you can use to convert a package installation to use git, if you want to do development while still having all the scripts that come with the packages.
14:47 mtompset gitify?
14:47 wahanui gitify is at
14:47 mtompset I see someone did program it. :)
15:13 * McCloud[A] is now away - Reason : Auto-Away after 30 minutes
15:20 rambutan left #koha
15:37 gaetan_B bye !
15:53 drojf joined #koha
15:55 drojf evening #koha
15:55 kf evening drojf
15:56 drojf hi kf
15:58 druthb hi, drojf! :)
15:59 trendynick joined #koha
16:08 tcohen hi drojf
16:09 drojf hi druthb and tcohen
16:18 nengard joined #koha
16:19 reiveune bye
16:19 reiveune left #koha
16:26 tcohen eythian++ # new packages built
16:36 mtompset evening, drojf. Greetings, nengard.
16:37 nengard hiya
16:44 kf bye all - cya later
16:45 druthb Hi, nengard! :)
16:45 kf left #koha
16:49 JesseM joined #koha
17:02 mtompset YAY! Self-rolled 3.12.4 works in my QA system. :)
17:12 mtompset or not...
17:12 mtompset Hmmm...
17:13 mtompset When you upgrade a packages system... how do you update the koha-conf.xml file?
17:15 tcohen you don't mtompset
17:15 mtompset Okay, manual fix the file it is. :)
17:15 tcohen on some ocassions I printed a message on the koha-upgrade-schema run
17:17 mtompset Where is the default plugins directory supposed to be?
17:18 tcohen packages install?
17:19 mtompset Yes.
17:19 mtompset It seems related to bug 9890 in part.
17:19 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9890 normal, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Pushed to Stable , Fix the new plugin system for package installs
17:19 tcohen /var/lib/koha/$name/plugins
17:20 tcohen i know :-P
17:21 tcohen did it work for you?
17:30 cait joined #koha
17:33 mtompset still working on it... distracted. :)
17:34 cait hi #koha
17:36 mtompset Oh right... the configuration of the plugin.
17:36 tcohen <pluginsdir>/var/lib/koha/​$name/plugins</pluginsdir>
17:37 tcohen <enable_plugins>1</enable_plugins>
17:38 mtompset Shoot... I must have forgotten to package
17:39 tcohen why?
17:39 tcohen ssh-add
17:40 tcohen eythian?
17:40 wahanui go back to bed, eythian
17:41 mtompset The plugin isn't listed in my drop down list... I'm attempted to backport 6874
17:41 mtompset bug 6874
17:41 wahanui it has been said that bug 6874 is epic
17:41 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6874 enhancement, P3, ---, julian.maurice, Patch doesn't apply , File upload in MARC
17:42 tcohen oh, you're talking about something completely different :-D
17:44 mtompset tangentially related. :P
17:48 tcohen to rebase or not to rebase (an old patch), that's the question
17:50 cait :)
17:53 mtompset I had it working... now its broken again.
17:53 mtompset Have to remember what I did to get it working.
18:01 mtompset Running through the sysprefs first...
18:02 mtompset What is  CatalogModuleRelink?
18:03 jcamins mtompset: http://manual.koha-community.o[…]talogModuleRelink
18:04 jcamins None of the sysprefs have anything to do with the plugins that show up, though.
18:05 mtompset Only the koha-conf.xml?
18:07 jcamins You're working with a cataloging plugin, so koha-conf.xml has nothing to do with it either.
18:08 mtompset So, why isn't the plugin icon displaying?
18:10 jcamins Possible options: you didn't enable it.
18:10 jcamins You need to restart memcached.
18:10 jcamins You are using Plack and need to restart the Plack process.
18:10 mtompset I'm not using memcached.
18:10 mtompset A newer version is?
18:11 mtompset Okay... I did enable it, but now it isn't there.
18:11 mtompset I go to re-enable it, and the file I am expecting in the list, isn't listed.
18:12 jcamins No, memcached is not enabled by default, I was listing possibilities.
18:13 jcamins In that case, I'd guess that probably the file isn't there, isn't executable, or is otherwise unusable.
18:13 mtompset I think that is it... Going to recreate it.
18:18 mtompset found it... cataloguing/value_builder/
18:18 mtompset fixing...
18:18 wahanui well, fixing is better than wiping, but it's up to you.
18:29 mtompset GAH! Shoot... just lost my patch.
18:30 drojf iit's the internet. you are allowed to say shit
18:31 jcamins But I reserve the right to be offended.
18:31 drojf i can live with that. :D
18:31 mtompset And I reserve the right to censor myself as a practice of self control. :P
18:32 drojf if you insist ;)
18:53 paul_p joined #koha
18:54 paul_p hello #koha !
18:56 cait hi paul_p
18:57 cait paul_p: let's hope some more show up :)
18:58 paul_p cait Joubu said he will be here
18:58 cait i got an auto-reply from bag, so I think he won't
18:58 cait haven't heard from marcelr
18:59 cait i suggest we wait until 5 past or so
18:59 bag ok I am taking a lunch break from training so I can be here
18:59 cait oh hi bag :)
18:59 paul_p hi bag !
18:59 cait nice!
19:00 bag bb in one sec
19:01 khall hey all!
19:01 cait hi khall :)
19:01 bag back
19:01 cait ok, i am a little less worried now :) but some more would be good
19:02 cait gmcharlt? mtj? Joubu? rangi?
19:02 bag I am training a library in San Francisco - it is such a beautiful library (old brick building - completely restored)  /me feeling lucky being here
19:02 cait :)
19:02 cait how is it going? :)
19:03 bag so far cait I think they understand OPAC and Patrons…  onto Circ after lunch :)
19:04 cait I am travelling to train a library tomorrow - training on thursday and friday :)
19:04 cait it's always exciting
19:05 bag I love it
19:05 cait ok, people think we should start?
19:06 paul_p cait = we can I think
19:06 cait #startmeeting QA Team Meeting
19:06 huginn` Meeting started Tue Sep  3 19:06:29 2013 UTC.  The chair is cait. Information about MeetBot at
19:06 huginn` Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
19:06 Topic for #koha is now  (Meeting topic: QA Team Meeting)
19:06 huginn` The meeting name has been set to 'qa_team_meeting'
19:06 cait #topic introductions
19:06 wahanui #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient
19:06 Topic for #koha is now introductions (Meeting topic: QA Team Meeting)
19:06 cait ok, quick poll - who is around? :)
19:07 cait #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ
19:07 bag #info Brendan Gallagher
19:07 paul_p #info Paul Poulain, BibLibre
19:07 khall #info Kyle M Hall, ByWater Solutions
19:07 cait #topic Agenda
19:07 Topic for #koha is now Agenda (Meeting topic: QA Team Meeting)
19:07 Joubu #info Jonathan Druart, BibLibre
19:07 cait ah :)
19:08 cait ok, today's agenda is on the wiki
19:08 Joubu (sorry for being late)
19:08 cait #info Agenda:[…]rd_September_2013
19:08 cait we are not as many as I had hoped for
19:08 cait but maybe we can still discuss a few things and gather some ideas
19:09 cait is there something missing on the agenda? or something we should leave out for today? Discuss first?
19:10 paul_p cait = joubu & I have discussed of what we putted on the agenda, you added a few things that I agree with, so the agenda is OK for me
19:10 cait do i need to bribe you all with cookies?
19:10 paul_p ;-)
19:10 khall looks good to me!
19:10 druthb #info Ruth Bavousett
19:10 druthb I'm here, with cookies!
19:10 cait :)
19:10 cait ok, i think we got another agenda item
19:10 cait ruth has offered to help out with QA
19:11 khall druthb++
19:11 cait #topic QA team
19:11 Topic for #koha is now QA team (Meeting topic: QA Team Meeting)
19:11 cait khall: i think that was a yes? :)
19:11 khall absolutely!
19:11 druthb Not sure how much time I'll have, but I'll try to throw a few in, particularly on the UNIMARC patches that are needing signoff, and other things that Her Caitness needs me to do.
19:11 paul_p druthb++ (yes for me as well
19:11 paul_p )
19:11 cait any more opinions?
19:11 bag I can test SIP - but all SIP2 patches in agenda are from khall so I can't…  perhaps I can schedule sometime with cait to help QA those?
19:12 khall bag: how about those ldap related patches?
19:12 cait bag: that would be helpful - i have figured out how to set up the sip server by now :)
19:12 bag I will do the LDAP one.  I can test that :)
19:12 cait great :)
19:12 cait let's move a bit slower so i can keep up
19:12 bag heh
19:12 cait i will note that we have ruth on the qa team now
19:13 cait #info druthb will join the QA team to help out qa'ing
19:13 paul_p bag & cait & others = in the previous release, the rule for QA was "anyone from the QA team, even someone involved in the patch or signoff, can QA once the patch is more than 1 month old". afaik, this rule has not been cancelled
19:13 cait no it has not, but the old ones are pretty complicated
19:13 cait so i think for those it's a bit difficult
19:14 cait let me st a new topic
19:14 cait #topic QA priorities
19:14 Topic for #koha is now QA priorities (Meeting topic: QA Team Meeting)
19:14 cait ok
19:14 cait we have bag for LDAP?
19:14 bag oh paul_p I did not know that
19:14 paul_p bag meeting already useful then ;-)
19:14 cait #action bag offered to QA LDAP patches - starting with bug 9299
19:14 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9299 major, P3, ---, nunyo, Signed Off , for loop in requires an extended patron attribute to be set or LDAP logins fail
19:15 cait #action bag also offered to help cait test SIP2 patches
19:15 cait ;)
19:15 khall nor did I. I assume QA'ing my own original patch would be a bad idea still? But QAing something where I only wrote a followup would be ok, assuming it's older than a month.
19:15 cait ok, and druthb would offer to look at UNIMARC?
19:15 cait khall: definitely
19:15 druthb yis.
19:15 cait and it's an emergency rule
19:15 cait and not for huge patches
19:16 cait #action druthb will try to take a look at UNIMARC patches
19:16 cait i am going to add you as a QA contact to those later?
19:16 bag what equals a HUGE patch?
19:16 bag bigger font? :P
19:16 cait bug 8015 is quite huge if you look at the list of patches there
19:16 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8015 new feature, P4, ---, kyle.m.hall, Signed Off , Add MARC Modifications Templates
19:16 cait i think big new features count as huge
19:17 * druthb hands cait the wiffle bat, to use as needed on rowdy Californians.
19:17 cait i think it would be better if you get worried about a bug to contact other qa team members who can take a look first
19:17 bag sounds like a good idea
19:17 mtj hi all
19:18 cait hi mtj
19:18 cait I know currently a lot of things are stuck in the queue
19:18 * mtj reads the scrollback...
19:18 cait that's part of the reason for the meeting... I think we need to try and lower the numbers
19:18 cait because the deadlines are getting really close
19:19 Joubu I started to qa 8015 and submitted a lot of followups, so I would prefer others pair of eyes look at it. But it looks very good to me!
19:19 cait bug 8015
19:19 wahanui bug 8015 is quite huge if you look at the list of patches there
19:19 cait Joubu: I am going to try - but i don't have a lot of spare time right now - september is busy month here, which is a problem
19:19 paul_p cait OTOH, without galen pushing, reducing QA queue won't be successfull (too bad gmcharlt is not around...)
19:20 cait paul_p: gmcharlt wanted to be here, but i think he has been travelling the last few days and only comes back today
19:20 cait I think even RM deserves some days off? :)
19:22 druthb no days off for the RM!
19:22 cait i know that developers are frustrated about their things not going in
19:22 cait it's understandable
19:22 cait but we only can change that by working together - i can't do a lot more than i have been doing the last few months - so I really need some help here to get things moving
19:22 bag how many passed QA are still waiting to be pushed?
19:22 khall we currently have 63 bugs set to Passed QA
19:22 drojf #info Mirko Tietgen, lurking
19:23 cait hi drojf
19:23 cait dashboard?
19:23 wahanui dashboard is at
19:23 * bag sends caffeine to gmcharlt
19:23 cait bag: the numbers are there, in color :)
19:23 drojf or is it over already? :)
19:23 bag cait I am THE dense sometimes :P
19:23 cait i think the one waiting to be pushed are not the problem, those numbers tend to get lower pretty fast when the RM is in action
19:24 cait and we can help out with giving things a second sign off there too
19:24 cait i think the queues we need to discuss are waiting for qa and needs sign-off
19:25 mtj agreed
19:26 cait I would reall ylike to try and get the number of bugs down in that queue first - because those get transported down into the maintained versions
19:26 paul_p cait = I agree we have to speak of the to-qa queue, but the pile of passed QA patches contains 10 patches that are pending since june. So I don't share your optimism about the QA queue being lowered when the RM pushes. But let's speak of the to-qa queue
19:26 cait and we should have them as stable as possible
19:27 cait paul_p: I know some of those are quite big
19:27 khall that's a sensible proposition. Is there anyway to filter bugzilla for just signed-off bugs? I haven't found one.
19:28 bag hmm do some of the to-qa patches depend on "passed QA" to be pushed?
19:28 cait khall: not sure i understand you right : ) but thequeues on he dashboard are linked :)
19:28 paul_p cait I already have said that many times, but my conviction is that "push asap enhancement, and take time to test/check them before release" is the most efficent way to go
19:28 cait yeah, but noone is going to test
19:28 paul_p cait (an off topic question once again...)
19:29 cait noone is going to take that time
19:29 cait in my experience :) and i have said that before
19:29 khall I'm afraid I agree with both cait and paul_p ; )
19:29 cait if noone takes the time before they go oin - it's unlikely someone will once they do
19:30 cait pulling things out that have proven problamtic after being pushed has proved quite hard
19:30 cait and getting bugs fixed often as well
19:30 cait but we will always disagree on that I think :)
19:30 khall cait: I can search for all signed-off patches easily, but I'm not aware of any way to filter by "Importance"
19:30 bag doesn't signoff and QA help eliminate some of that problem though?  isn't that the point?
19:30 paul_p cait = i'd like to leave this question for later, and go back to agenda. But that's a topic for hackfest, probably...
19:31 cait khall: you can add severity and priority to the list as columns, the option is at the bottom of the bugzilla search result list
19:31 khall agreed, we could discuss this for hours
19:31 cait khall:  andsort by those
19:31 khall thanks cait!
19:31 cait bag: yep i think that is the point :)
19:31 cait ok, i think we are not ´moving here... so moving on seems like a good idea
19:32 cait #topic passing QA
19:32 Topic for #koha is now passing QA (Meeting topic: QA Team Meeting)
19:33 cait we have seen a lot of work on unit tests lately :) that's great
19:33 cait kenza++ again
19:33 cait i also find them really helpful when doing QA
19:33 cait and I think we should encourage them the best we can
19:34 cait I think currently we have been asking for tests for new subs and changes to existing ones
19:34 cait that seems to work quite well
19:35 paul_p agreed.
19:35 khall agreed
19:35 druthb +1
19:35 cait cool :) so we can agree! :)
19:35 bag +1
19:36 cait @agreed ask for unit tests when new routines get added to the API and existing ones are being changed
19:36 huginn` cait: I'll give you the answer just as soon as RDA is ready
19:36 paul_p side question = do we have a "qa rule" page on the wiki. I think we should
19:36 cait #agreed agreed ask for unit tests when new routines get added to the API and existing ones are being changed
19:36 cait no, we haven't one yet - but i think it's a good idea
19:36 bag yes that would be nice
19:37 cait #action add a page with information about QA to the wiki
19:37 Joubu I agree too, even if a lot of modules/routines are not easy at all to test without having a global unit tests file for this module
19:37 paul_p QA manager, you take care of creating it ?
19:37 cait i thik the unit test one could maybe go on the coding guidelines as well - if the RM agrees
19:37 cait i can
19:38 paul_p Joubu can you give more details about " a lot of modules/routines are not easy at all to test without having a global unit tests file" ? Could we quickly add an "empty" unit test file for all modules ?
19:38 mtj looks like we all agree about the unit tests :)
19:38 paul_p something like a framework
19:39 cait Joubu: is the problem creating the data?
19:39 khall cait: I'd say that's usually the most difficult part for me.
19:39 cait i think it got easier using transactions now
19:40 cait i have tried my hands on some and it's seems a lot easier than mocking
19:40 cait but i am still stuck on a patch where i need to mock a cgi object
19:40 cait ...
19:40 khall the biggest problem I see with requiring unit tests for exisiting subroutines are some are quite large and do far too much
19:40 Joubu C4::Circ, C4::Auth, C4::Acq don't have unit tests for all routines. It will be though to modify some routines in these modules.
19:40 Joubu tough
19:40 cait i thik we can still make exceptions in some cases, but without trying we won't get good examples to copy from
19:41 cait i am iwlling to make exceptions for bugs for example
19:41 cait if the solution can be tested well using a test plan
19:41 khall agreed. I think new subs need a strict requiremtn for unit tests, existing code a yes with case by case exemptions
19:42 cait i think maybe differentiate between adding new features and fixing bad behaviour there too
19:43 cait I'd like to postpone the discussion about the new module
19:43 khall yes. We don't want to hold up bugfixes any more than we have too
19:43 cait I'd like to get an opinion of gmcharlt on the possiblity of dbix for 3.14
19:44 bag that would be great
19:45 cait it would be
19:45 cait Joubu: i am sorry, i know that#s your topic, i will try to follow up on that
19:46 cait ok to move on to the next topic? should I add something more to the minutes?
19:47 Joubu I asked Galen to give his opinion on bug 10363, but I didn't have any feedback
19:47 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10363 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, In Discussion , There is no package for authorised values.
19:47 cait Joubu: i will try to look after that one
19:48 cait which brings me to the next topic :)
19:48 cait #topic Ideas to improve throughput
19:48 Topic for #koha is now Ideas to improve throughput (Meeting topic: QA Team Meeting)
19:49 bag cloning Joubu and the rest of the team
19:50 cait bag:  not sure i can let that count :) but .... oh well
19:50 cait #idea clone the QA team :)
19:50 cait something else? :)
19:50 mtj falling back on the 1 month rule would indeed improve throughput
19:51 cait but in the wrong way.
19:51 Joubu I think QAers should not failed QA a patch for minor things (some tabs, etc.) but rather submit a followup themselves
19:51 cait Joubu: I agree
19:51 cait also capitalization maybe
19:51 cait small things, not changing logic
19:51 Joubu no, of course
19:52 cait #idea QA team can provide follow ups for small problems (tabs, typos, capitalization...)
19:52 mtj joubu, agreed, thats what i usually do
19:52 cait i have found it's easier to qa big patches when the developer is around to ask questions
19:53 cait i have done that a few times and it was quite productive
19:53 Joubu mtj: yes, me too
19:53 paul_p cait & joubu = that's what I made when I was RM and QAed patches. small things like capitalization or things like that are easy to fix & should be by the QAer
19:53 cait i think we see a similar effect during the hackfests too
19:53 jcamins Joubu: in cases where it would take longer to do the follow-up, I suggest just failing it. That was my rule during 3.12. If it's faster to fix than ask for a fix, fix it. Otherwise, kick it back and ask for a fix.
19:54 cait #idea set up a time with the developer to work on their patches - so you can ask questions
19:54 bag maybe have a QA day or sprint?  like we scheduled this meeting - or something similar to Global bug squashing day
19:55 cait GBSD might help with that - we could be around looking at patches of developers that are on IRC that time, give feedback more directly
19:55 cait ah, bag is typing faster :)
19:55 bag it's the coffee - not me
19:56 cait i was thinking maybe fold it into gbsd - but we could also do a special one
19:56 paul_p I really love the idea of setting up a time to discuss of a given bug. Something regular, like "every friday, at 6AM GMT"
19:56 druthb special_qa_sprint_day++
19:56 cait would it be possible that people dedicate some time to that idea?
19:56 cait if we set up a date?
19:56 bag if the date is set - I can clear my schedule with enough notice
19:56 druthb 6 AM GMT?  And here I thought that the French had given up on torture.
19:56 cait #idea have a QA sprint day
19:57 cait i guess it would have to be a global friday - we are really far spread around the globe
19:58 cait this time is late for europe, but actually the best option we have with the qa team widely spread
19:58 cait should we try and set a date for a qa sprint?
19:58 bag would be best to have RM present - maybe fridays aren't the best for him?  let's pole the RM
19:58 cait pole?
19:59 bag poll
19:59 paul_p druthb it was just an example. and we could have various options.
19:59 cait ah
19:59 cait maybe we could suggest a date
19:59 druthb paul_p:  :P
19:59 cait and see if that works
19:59 bag cait: let's do it and see what happens
19:59 cait what about....
20:00 * cait searches for her calendar
20:00 mtj how about a wednesday?
20:00 wahanui a wednesday is fine for me
20:01 cait wednesdy woudl work for me
20:01 Joubu It would be really great if wahanui could qa patches...
20:01 cait what about 11th?
20:01 mtj +1
20:02 drojf you know that there is the regular meeting too?
20:02 cait no, but might not be a bad thing
20:03 cait i mean it doesn't necessarily interfere
20:03 cait hm depends if we want to set a time too or make it a global one
20:04 cait we could also make it thursday
20:04 cait or friday
20:04 cait 12th or 13th
20:04 cait any preferences?
20:05 paul_p 12th could be possible for me. 13th (my) morning won't be possible
20:05 bag +1
20:05 Joubu +1
20:05 bag alright back to training for me - cya later
20:05 JoeLib001 joined #koha
20:06 cait that's for 12th?
20:06 cait #agreed 12th September suggested date for QA sprint
20:07 cait mtj: ok for you too? sorry i might have been too fast
20:07 hankbank joined #koha
20:07 cait ok, any more ideas?
20:07 mtj ok for me too :)
20:08 cait would someone be willing ot set up a wiki page for it?
20:08 cait i am travelling all day tomorrow and it would be nice to get that out and announced
20:08 mtj i can do the wiki page today
20:09 druthb mtj++
20:09 cait mtj: awesome!
20:09 wahanui That'll be $1 for the awesome jar, cait
20:09 cait mtj++
20:09 paul_p mtj++ !
20:09 cait #action mtj to create a wiki page for the first QA sprint
20:09 * druthb puts .76 Euro in the jar for cait.
20:10 cait thx druthb
20:10 cait do we want to set up another meeting?
20:10 cait or see how the qa sprint works out first?
20:11 paul_p cait I don't have a preference
20:11 paul_p cait both are possible
20:12 cait so let's see how the qa sprint goes
20:12 cait i#d love if as many qa people as possible coudl dedicate sometime
20:12 cait maybe send a note to the list or put on the wiki page when you can be around
20:13 cait working on qA
20:14 mtj cait, ill ping you when the wiki is done
20:14 cait thank you mtj
20:14 cait and thx for volunteering
20:15 cait maybe you could add a section for a little schedule? let's see if we can make use of being globally spread?
20:15 cait ok, i am going to close the meeting now
20:15 cait #agreed new meeting to be determined after QA sprint day
20:15 cait #endmeeting
20:15 Topic for #koha is now Welcome to #koha this channel is for discussion of the Koha project and software The next general meeting is 11 September 2013 at 18:00 UTC. Please use for long pastes
20:15 huginn` Meeting ended Tue Sep  3 20:15:48 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)
20:15 huginn` Minutes:        http://meetings.koha-community[…]-09-03-19.06.html
20:15 huginn` Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community[…]3-09-03-19.06.txt
20:15 huginn` Log:            http://meetings.koha-community[…]03-19.06.log.html
20:15 cait thx for coming everyone
20:15 mtj so, any idea for the frequency of the sprints… ? say every 2 or 4 weeks?
20:15 druthb cait++
20:16 drojf cait++
20:16 cait every 2 would be good ad we are getting so close to the deadlines, but not sure we can make it happen
20:16 mtj thanx cait++
20:16 cait let's work together on making this first a good start
20:16 Joubu cait++ thanks !
20:16 mtj yeah, 2 weeks is good, i think
20:16 cait Joubu++ thx for adding to the agenda
20:17 rangi cait++ #for caling the meeting and for valuing stability over speed
20:18 mtj i really like this qa-sprint idea :)
20:18 cait i really hope it works :)
20:18 cait i think we can set a good example, maybe get some people testing etc.
20:18 Joubu cait: you are welcome, but I hope my "important" point could be discussed later :)
20:18 cait we can only do something together - blaming each other won't work :)
20:18 cait Joubu: it's not forgotten
20:20 rangi what was your important point?
20:20 * rangi will read back after he has dropped the kids at school
20:22 Joubu rangi: it is about bug 10363: should we wait the integration of DBIx into Koha before adding new modules?
20:22 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10363 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, In Discussion , There is no package for authorised values.
20:23 rangi ah yeah, i have some work that is waiting too
20:23 aquaman joined #koha
20:23 rangi[…]ffa46052ee38063ce
20:24 rangi and
20:24 rangi[…]b8d2723ea86a8ccd4
20:24 rangi +    my $borrowers = Koha::Borrower->new();
20:24 rangi +    my $borrower  = $borrowers->get_borrower( { 'cardnumber' => $userid } );
20:24 rangi +    my %row = $borrower->get_columns;
20:24 rangi ^^ so much nicer :)
20:25 cait maybe we could get together about dbix class sometimes? i would like to elarn more
20:25 rangi basically we need to fix the foreign key problems in the db
20:25 rangi then the dbix::class work can get pushed
20:25 rangi then all the stuff depending on it can
20:26 rangi i just need to check with gmcharlt that he is ok with me working to try to fix the db
20:26 rangi cos if we can do that
20:26 rangi we can remove that one problematic line
20:26 cait i am interested in helping
20:26 cait it would help my work on our deletion concept
20:26 rangi (byproduct is we would get better db out of it too)
20:29 Joubu rangi: yes but the patch refactors the AV code into a new module (without using DBIx), adding unit tests. The discussion is : should we rewrite the patch or include it as it is (since it improves the code)?
20:29 Joubu anyway, go to bed. bye #koha
20:29 cait bye Joubu
20:30 cait added minutes - now goin gto pack
20:50 nengard left #koha
21:13 rangi Joubu: ah that would totally be the RM call in that case
21:14 rangi id probably lean towards including, but with a big #REWRITE ME  all over it
21:42 eythian hi
21:44 drojf hi eythian
21:44 rangi  <-- if you look here from 0600 UTC and choose sea farer II
21:44 rangi yuo can watch the swimmer catalyst is sponsoring swimming the channel
21:47 drojf i hope it is at least FOSS swimming. :P
21:49 mtompset drojf: You mean you FOSS-t, right? ;)
21:49 mtompset DOH! I better grab some caffeine, that parsed badly.
21:50 drojf i have no idea what that meant. but i was blaming it on being awake too long :)
21:50 mtompset You were trying to make a pun on fast, right?
21:52 mtompset Almost recovered the patch now... but the silly window isn't popping up right.
22:34 mtompset YAY! Patch fixed again.
22:35 mtompset Well, I'll try placing it later tonight.
22:51 papa joined #koha
22:55 cait left #koha
23:02 eythian[…]-francois-marier/ <-- rangi
23:02 eythian <-- also rangi
23:02 rangi sweet
23:08 tcohen joined #koha
23:18 Brooke joined #koha
23:18 Brooke yo!
23:18 rangi hi Brooke
23:18 Brooke :) how's it?
23:19 rangi not too bad
23:19 tcohen hi rangi
23:20 Brooke good to hear
23:32 maximep left #koha

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