IRC log for #koha, 2013-08-21

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:00 wizzyrea I'm waiting on specifics
00:00 dcook Mmm, could be
00:00 dcook I think RDA might get rid of the "rule of three" for authors
00:00 dcook Where cataloguers are supposed to only add up to three additional authors in the 7xx fields
00:01 dcook If you do get specifics, it would be great if you could record them somewhere
00:01 dcook As far as I can tell, the average person needs to pay for specifics
00:01 * dcook looks at the rdatoolkit pricetag and all the RDA workshop ads.
00:02 rangi only record them if the license allows
00:02 dcook rangi: I've wondered about that
00:02 dcook I can understand not cutting and pasting from licensed documents
00:02 dcook However, what about summaries?
00:02 rangi nope
00:03 rangi Licensor hereby grants to Licensee a non
00:03 rangi -
00:03 rangi exclusive, non
00:03 rangi -
00:03 rangi transferable, non
00:03 dcook How do people get away with posting AACR2 guidelines at universities?
00:03 rangi -
00:03 rangi assignable license to access materials include
00:03 rangi d in
00:03 rangi RDA Toolkit
00:03 rangi under the terms and conditions set forth herein.
00:03 rangi Each
00:03 rangi separate Site requires its own RDA Toolkit
00:03 rangi license regardless of subscription mechanism.
00:03 rangi they break their license agreement
00:03 rangi or, it doesnt have one as draconian as the rda toolkit
00:03 dcook Could be
00:04 dcook Oh law...
00:04 rangi Neither Licensee nor Authorized Users acquire ownership rights to the RDA Toolkit.
00:04 rangi The RDA Toolkit may not be
00:04 rangi resold or transferred.
00:04 dcook But people can say "we need this" or "we need that"
00:04 rangi you lease it
00:04 rangi you dont buy a copy
00:04 wizzyrea[…]rom-aacr2-to-rda/
00:04 dcook Yeah, I've used the RDA toolkit a few times and looked at their pricing/user info
00:05 dcook True enough. Lots of info out there already.
00:05 dcook Actually, I posted a link to the rdatoolkit where they gave away some info..
00:06 dcook[…]nt.php?id=jscmap1
00:09 dcook Hmm, that's not a half-bad blog post
00:10 wizzyrea that site isn't bad generally
00:11 dcook[…]d-carrier-fields/
00:11 dcook "These fields are not display fields."
00:11 dcook LoC displays them and I had a library wanting them displayed though
00:11 wizzyrea heh
00:12 rangi its a clustefuck
00:12 wizzyrea yea exactly
00:12 wizzyrea what he said.
00:12 rangi piling more crap on top of crap
00:12 dcook Although personally...they probably would be better used as replacements for fixed field data (since a lot of people don't use the fixed fields as the spec says they should)
00:12 rangi and wasting everyones time and money
00:12 dcook rangi: Pretty much
00:12 wizzyrea These fields are not display fields. Sirsi (or LMxAC) will have to design a way for the information contained in the 336-338 fields to map to a display in the OPAC.
00:13 rangi good luck with that
00:13 wizzyrea that kind of only works if you are super consistent?
00:13 dcook Yep
00:13 dcook Which isn't likely to work with free text fields
00:13 wizzyrea yea naw.
00:13 wizzyrea stupid. stupid. stupid.
00:13 dcook Which is why they had fixed value fields...except people couldn't figure out the codes
00:13 rangi lemme just build a natural language parser into my opac
00:14 * wizzyrea sighs.
00:14 * wizzyrea sighs a lot
00:14 dcook hehe
00:14 dcook Poor wizzyrea
00:14 wizzyrea meh, not poor me
00:14 dcook I've had those same sighs
00:14 wizzyrea iti's just so head shakingly bad.
00:15 dcook No one is really offering a viable alternative though
00:15 dcook At least, not yet.
00:15 dcook Mind you, even if we don't have MARC, we still have RDA
00:15 wizzyrea I know right!
00:15 dcook Either RDA/AACR2/ISBD or no standard
00:16 wizzyrea whoever did this blog, which I suspect we should archive RIGHT NOW
00:16 wizzyrea talks about that
00:16 dcook Yeah?
00:16 dcook I noticed the part where they said RDA wasn't designed with MARC in mind
00:16 dcook Which...I suppose is a blessing and a curse
00:16 wizzyrea (because I suspect that if they knew the info was available, they would make him/her take it down)
00:17 dcook (Probably)
00:18 * wizzyrea wonders what storage medium they had in mind - xml maybe?
00:18 dcook I'm not sure they thought that far ahead necessarily
00:18 dcook They probably only thought about it from a bibliographic angle
00:18 dcook Which...yeah...blessing and a curse
00:19 wizzyrea anyway - there's clearly work to be done there
00:19 wizzyrea to cope with RDA records
00:19 dcook Well...
00:20 dcook To be honest, a lot of RDA seems to do with description rather than encoding
00:20 dcook Like the rule of three bit and the elimination of standard abbreviations
00:20 dcook Which doesn't really matter in our cases
00:20 dcook If I'm not mistaken, the XSLTs already handle limitless 7xx fields for authors, I think
00:21 dcook I could submit a patch at some point for the 336, 337, 338, and 264
00:21 dcook Other than that...a lot of it is frameworks/slight mods of the subfield selects in the XSLTs
00:21 wizzyrea ^ work
00:21 dcook hehe
00:21 wizzyrea to be done
00:21 dcook Touché
00:22 dcook That's not much work though. I did the extra fields pretty quickly.
00:22 dcook The subfield selects...those will probably come up
00:22 dcook I suppose the requirement gathering is where the real work is
00:22 wizzyrea right lunch
00:23 dcook I was rambling to someone about this recently. As a Koha developer, is our job to give people what they want or to push ahead and try to give them what might be good?
00:23 dcook Maybe both..
00:23 wahanui maybe both are related
00:30 gmcharlt dcook: to answer your question, yes
00:30 dcook Makes sense
00:30 dcook I suppose I wish that more library world people were involved in trying to push ahead as well
00:31 dcook Mind you, it's tough breaking out of 50+ years of tradition
00:31 dcook Well, maybe 40+
00:31 gmcharlt maybe 100+, not all of it bad :)
00:32 dcook Certainly not all of it bad :)
00:32 dcook Libraries are great (even if they charge you a 1.80 fee for reserves...*grumbles*)
00:33 dcook I suppose it's hard to start fresh when the data isn't fresh.
00:33 dcook And any attempt to migrate that data while preserving all that data will almost necessarily involve copying across some of its not so great conventions as well...
00:34 dcook Baby steps I guess
00:36 dcook Without a doubt, I'm glad to be working on Koha where these things are possible :)
00:51 dcook ie--
01:04 BobB joined #koha
01:15 druthb o/
01:15 dcook \o
01:20 bag heya druthb and dcook
01:20 dcook hey bag
01:21 dcook Haven't seen you around in a while
01:21 bag been busy - and this week - no daycare so I'm with Ginny all week :) :D
01:21 dcook Yay for time with Ginny :)
01:22 dcook When I have a sprog, I hope I get to have hometime with them.
01:22 bag it's the best!
01:23 bag well with a happy happy girl like Ginny!  she makes me laugh and is always happy!
01:23 dcook hehe
01:24 dcook \o/
01:24 * mtj waves to druthb, dcook  and bag
01:24 dcook hey ya mtj :)
01:24 bag hey Mason!
01:25 mtj hi! hi!
01:25 * druthb waves to mtj
01:31 wizzyrea sprog hehe
01:32 bag heya wizzyrea
01:32 wahanui wizzyrea is a fan of selecting hunks for committing.
01:32 wizzyrea whaddup
01:36 dcook @karma ie7
01:36 huginn` dcook: Karma for "ie7" has been increased 0 times and decreased 1 time for a total karma of -1.
01:36 dcook ie7--
01:36 dcook Don't like media queries, eh? Jerk...
01:37 mtj let the selecting of hunks commence!
01:38 * wizzyrea has already done her selecting ;)
01:38 dcook wizzyrea has all the hunks and sprogs
01:38 wizzyrea *A* hunk and *A* sprog. :P
01:38 gmcharlt heh
01:39 dcook Well, if you want to be accurate :p
01:47 dcook I think...I might be stumped. IE7 doesn't seem to embrace media queries in the @import rule.
01:47 dcook Short of using IE specific comments in the HTML, I don't see a way around this..
01:48 dcook When I say doesn't embrace, IE7 doesn't import the stylesheet if there is a media query attached to the rule.
01:48 * dcook sighs
01:54 dcook Perhaps that's a "cross that bridge" when it comes to it..
02:15 druthb hrm.
02:15 * druthb grumps.
02:18 dcook :(
02:19 druthb Set BiblioAddsAuthorities to "Allow", but still can't add a 700 on a UNIMARC.  Still locked out.
02:20 dcook Did you clear your cache?
02:20 druthb 'sec.  lemme try that.
02:20 dcook I've had that happen quite a few times and it ended up being caching
02:22 jcamins druthb: why are you using UNIMARC?
02:23 druthb dcook:  Wasn't that.  nuts.
02:23 dcook Damn :/
02:23 druthb jcamins:  Signing off a patch.
02:23 dcook druthb++
02:23 wizzyrea the framework is properly configured?
02:24 druthb Unsure, wizzyrea; this is from M. Saby's test DB.
02:24 jcamins druthb++
02:26 jcamins *Now* I understand:[…]/20/naming-is-key
02:32 dcook hehe
02:34 rangi aarrrrrgggh
02:34 wizzyrea ?
02:34 rangi i accidentally read a mail
02:34 jcamins lol
02:35 wizzyrea hate it when that happens!
02:37 * druthb grumps s'more.
02:38 gmcharlt druthb is making s'mores!  great!
02:39 * druthb melts a UNIMARC record...
02:42 * druthb sets this patch aside for now, in frustration.
02:45 dcook poor rangi :(
02:45 dcook :(
02:45 dcook That second one was for druthb
02:46 * druthb waves, and goes to do something else for a bit.
03:36 * dcook tries to remember which sub allows you to get an authorized value's description..
03:36 dcook C4::Biblio::GetAuthorisedValueDesc looks about right...
04:03 dcook Whoever designed C4::Biblio::GetAuthorisedValueDesc is awesome.
04:03 dcook I so want to give them a highfive
04:04 dcook Or rather the lines near the bottom
04:04 dcook @karma hdl
04:04 huginn` dcook: Karma for "hdl" has been increased 69 times and decreased 1 time for a total karma of 68.
04:04 dcook hdl++
04:10 dcook Ah, perhaps I spoke too soon for all the praise...
04:44 cjh awesome http://kohadevreactions.tumblr[…]-well-pretty-much
05:05 dcook What web browsers do people use on Linux?
05:05 dcook The default options seem rather horrible
05:07 cait joined #koha
05:35 dcook Hey ya cait
05:35 * dcook should go eat lunch...
05:35 cait probably :)
05:35 cait isn't it late for lunch?
05:38 dcook Pretty late
05:44 dcook I wasn't feeling hungry before though..
05:47 cait hm it started when i came online?
05:47 * cait hands you a cookie
06:05 halcyonCorsair joined #koha
06:20 dcook Cookie!
06:20 dcook Apparently I'm a bit slow
06:20 dcook looks kind of neat...
06:24 papa joined #koha
06:25 * magnuse waves
06:31 dcook Hey ya magnuse
06:31 dcook papa++
06:31 papa hi there
06:33 magnuse hiya dcook and papa
06:37 drojf joined #koha
06:37 drojf good morning #koha
06:38 magnuse moin drojf
06:39 drojf hei magnuse
06:40 dcook hey ya drojf
06:41 cait hi papa, magnuse and drojf!
06:41 magnuse guten morgen cait
06:42 drojf hi dcook and cait
06:43 * dcook tries to remember when daylight savings time is around the world
06:44 dcook I keep thinking there's a time when you folks show up earlier than just before I'm supposed to leave :p
06:44 cait hm takes a bit longer i think
06:46 cait bbl
06:46 cait left #koha
06:47 reiveune joined #koha
06:47 gaetan_B joined #koha
06:47 gaetan_B hello
06:47 wahanui niihau, gaetan_B
06:47 reiveune hello
06:48 magnuse dcook:[…]g_time_by_country
06:48 magnuse bonjour reiveune et gaetan_B
06:48 magnuse @wunder marseille
06:48 huginn` magnuse: The current temperature in Marseille, France is 21.0°C (8:30 AM CEST on August 21, 2013). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 60%. Dew Point: 13.0°C. Pressure: 30.06 in 1018 hPa (Steady).
06:48 magnuse @wunder konstanz
06:48 huginn` magnuse: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 14.0°C (8:45 AM CEST on August 21, 2013). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 86%. Dew Point: 12.0°C. Pressure: 30.27 in 1025 hPa (Steady).
06:48 magnuse @wunder sydney
06:48 huginn` magnuse: Error: No such location could be found.
06:49 magnuse @wunder sydney, australia
06:49 huginn` magnuse: The current temperature in Sydney, New South Wales is 16.0°C (4:30 PM EST on August 21, 2013). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 27%. Dew Point: -3.0°C. Pressure: 29.92 in 1013 hPa (Steady).
06:49 magnuse @wunder boo
06:49 huginn` magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 10.0°C (8:20 AM CEST on August 21, 2013). Conditions: Light Rain Showers. Humidity: 87%. Dew Point: 8.0°C. Pressure: 29.83 in 1010 hPa (Steady).
06:49 dcook salut gaetan_B, reiveune
06:49 reiveune hi magnuse, dcook :)
06:49 dcook Hmm, chilly again today..
06:49 magnuse ooh, *parts* of australia has daylight savings time?
06:50 magnuse awesome!
06:50 wahanui That'll be $1 for the awesome jar, magnuse
06:50 magnuse ouch
06:50 drojf @wunder berlin, germany
06:50 huginn` drojf: The current temperature in Alter Schlachthof, Berlin, Germany is 16.3°C (8:50 AM CEST on August 21, 2013). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 78%. Dew Point: 12.0°C. Pressure: 30.33 in 1027 hPa (Steady).
06:50 dcook That's the same back in Canada
06:50 gaetan_B hi magnuse, dcook
06:50 dcook I grew up in Saskatchewan where we don't have daylight savings time
06:50 gaetan_B nihau wahanui
06:50 dcook I've only encountered it...5 times in my life really
06:50 magnuse heh
06:50 dcook Made me late for coffee with someone once :p
06:50 dcook Well, actually, she knew that I'd be late because I would forget about the time change
06:50 dcook We actually wound up at different coffee shops with the same name
06:51 dcook Which actually were only 9 blocks away from each other...
06:52 alex_a joined #koha
06:52 alex_a hello
06:52 wahanui salut, alex_a
06:52 dcook bonjour alex_a
06:53 alex_a salut dcook
06:53 dcook I still have a hard time wrapping my head around this concept..
06:53 dcook So in October...
06:54 dcook It will be 7:55am rather than 8:55am in Germany?
06:54 dcook Or 9:55am?
06:56 dcook Aha, diagrams..
06:56 dcook 7:55am
06:57 dcook So I'll still see cait but no one else :o
06:57 magnuse me?
06:57 wahanui you are, like, afraid that we added another 10000 bugs while he was eating pizza
06:57 dcook lol
07:02 magnuse next gbsd?
07:02 wahanui i think next gbsd is[…]bug_squashing_day
07:02 magnuse gbsd?
07:02 wahanui gbsd is Global Bug Squashing Day
07:03 magnuse dcook++ papa++ cait++ for doing signoffs
07:05 dcook I did a sign off?
07:05 dcook That doesn't sound right
07:05 * dcook tries to remember
07:05 papa maybe this is an incentive..
07:07 dcook Ahh...I see
07:07 dcook It wasn't legitimate
07:07 dcook It was me changing a bug back to signed off from failed qa
07:08 dcook For my own bug...:/
07:08 dcook papa: Almost certainly. If only I weren't so swamped :S.
07:08 dcook I'm already staying late at work..
07:08 magnuse ah, i better be more careful with my ++s next time ;-)
07:09 dcook Well...the public library is open until 8...maybe I can get in an actual test once I finish up this report I'm writing..
07:11 dcook Oh...I think I've nearly got it..
07:12 dcook group_concat using a newline separator so that the SQL report can show multiple values for the patron :D
07:16 dcook Not very useful in the web view but handy when you download as CSV..
07:26 rangi fly spaghetti monster save us from people helping with bad advice about cron
07:27 rangi our starting their own wiki with old instructions
07:27 rangi i assume they mean well .. but not actually helping
07:27 dcook ^^ all comments
07:27 dcook Those!
07:28 cjh amen.
07:28 dcook I have a blog where I occasionally talk about my adventures with Koha but I think I've tried my best to not actually reference anything specific
07:28 dcook I should probably go back and check some time though..
07:28 dcook I think people do think they're helping but such a bad idea
07:29 dcook mtompset++
07:29 dcook Improving the wiki instructions seems like the way to go
07:33 dcook Ooo, bugs to sign off..
07:35 matts hi !
07:35 dcook hey ya matts
07:40 dcook There we go, magnuse. An actual sign off :p
07:41 rangi gah
07:41 dcook gah?
07:41 rangi that wiki is so wrong
07:41 rangi they set up the package source
07:41 drojf joined #koha
07:41 rangi[…]Install_Ubuntu_12.04_LTS_server_software_on_a_b​are_metal_or_virtual_machine.
07:41 rangi then go on and do the tarball .. wtf
07:42 magnuse oh noes...
07:42 dcook What the..
07:42 wahanui the is probably a stop word
07:42 dcook Indeed, wahanui. Indeed.
07:42 magnuse dcook++ for the actual signoff
07:43 dcook Thanks :)
07:43 dcook I'll look at doing another.
07:43 dcook I want to pick up the rest of Akira but the library doesn't close for a while..
07:44 rangi have you seen the kurosawa movie of the same name?
07:44 dcook The method of installation and setup described below is called the "original tarball" installation method. Do not confuse it with any other installation method.
07:44 dcook *facepalm*
07:44 * dcook facepalm
07:44 wahanui facepalm is a tiny member of the Arecaceae family whose preference for warm, humid environments makes it a perfect choice for cultivation in the human nasal cavity.
07:44 dcook hehe
07:44 dcook rangi: Yep, although it's been a couple years.
07:45 dcook Seems pretty different from what I can tell so far
07:45 dcook Although apparently Otomo also did the script for the movie I think..
07:45 rangi yeah
07:45 dcook Wait...
07:46 dcook I don't think Kurosawa was on the film
07:46 dcook I think Otomo did the whole thing himself
07:46 rangi you might be right
07:46 rangi confusing it with ikiru
07:47 dcook I've never seen Ikiru..
07:47 dcook Actually, Seven Samurai might be the only one I've seen of his
07:48 rangi oh you are missing out
07:48 dcook I might have The Hidden Fortress somewhere though. Keep meaning to watch that..
07:48 rangi yojimbo is great
07:48 rangi as is sanshiro sugata
07:49 * cjh hasnt seen any of those
07:50 dcook I'll have to check them out sometime :)
07:51 dcook cjh: They're pretty classic
07:51 dcook Mind you, Seven Samurai is nearly 4 hours long..
07:51 dcook So you have to be willing to sit for a while
07:51 dcook Admittedly, I watched it in stages :p
07:52 rangi that was his homage to spaghetti westerns
07:52 rangi theny they went and made the magnificent seven, which was a homage to seven samurai
07:52 rangi full circle
07:52 cjh heh
07:52 dcook hehe
07:53 kf joined #koha
07:53 dcook I knew Magnificient Seven was a homage to Seven Samurai but I didn't know that Seven Samurai was itself an homage to spaghetti westerns as well. Sweet.
07:53 * kf waves
07:53 dcook hey ya kf :)
07:53 * cjh takes notes
07:53 rangi hi kf
07:54 rangi when i had i went through a phase where i watched all of the kurosawa movies
07:54 cjh :o that may be the reason to get fatso that I have been looking for.
07:56 dcook Interesting.  I'd never heard of the site before. Good ol' NZ
07:56 rangi only has one
07:57 dcook I think I got both Kurosawa films from the library back home :)
07:57 dcook Still disappointed about the libraries here charing for reservations..
07:57 dcook Mind you, I only have two branches at mind so I guess that's not a huge problem..
07:57 rangi[…]ira_Kurosawa/8113
07:57 dcook I wonder if that will/has come up with Koha
07:57 rangi yep
07:57 cjh I have been thinking of signing up to fatso for scifis, an '50s, '60s and '70s japanese movie education might just tip me over the edge.
07:58 rangi :)
07:58 rangi may as well do the free trial
07:58 dcook hehe
07:58 * cjh is currently watching all the bond films
07:58 rangi ran
07:58 cjh they are hilarious.
07:58 rangi that was great too
07:59 rangi kurosawa remakes king lear :)
08:00 drojf reminds me i still have not watched sátántangó. 7 hours of quiet hungarians in black and white. had to download it, never watched it. i should still have it somewhere
08:00 dcook Ooh. Ran does sound good..
08:01 dcook Love me a good Shakespeare remake
08:16 rangi lots of KOHA today
08:16 dcook I seem to notice it more and more all the time :/
08:19 rangi i replied saying if the webinar can be delivered via free software, id be interested
08:25 dcook Not sure I've noticed that one
08:26 rangi ah on the main list, from eifl
08:28 dcook Mm, I'll take a look
08:29 dcook Hmm...
08:30 dcook Having troubles loading the email archive. Might be an issue on my end though..
08:30 dcook Up now..
08:40 Viktor joined #koha
08:40 rangi oh good grief
08:40 rangi im moved on from assuming they are wanting to help
08:40 rangi to assuming they are grandstanding now
08:40 kf grandstanding?
08:40 rangi latest email on the koha list
08:41 rangi kf: To perform ostentatiously so as to impress an audience.
08:41 rangi a new english bit of slang for you :)
08:41 kf thx :)
08:42 rangi now im doubly glad i replied to the eifl mail
08:42 dcook Perhaps this is the week of grandstanding :p
08:42 * dcook checks the archive
08:44 dcook Oh dear...
08:52 Callender joined #koha
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08:59 dcook Hmm..might not make it to the library now
08:59 dcook Tricksy magnuse getting me to stay uber late..
09:00 magnuse moahahaha
09:02 kf Joubu++ :)
09:08 dcook Three legitimate ones to make up for my not so legitimate one :p
09:11 dcook Have a good day/night all.
09:11 dcook Public library time!
09:11 * dcook crosses his fingers that he gets there in time
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11:50 marcelr joined #koha
11:51 marcelr hi #koha
11:56 Viktor joined #koha
12:01 oleonard joined #koha
12:02 oleonard Hideley-ho koharinos
12:14 * magnuse wonders what oleonard had for breakfast ;-)
12:15 oleonard I had a bowl full of angry condemnation of Internet Explorer 7.
12:15 jcamins lol
12:15 oleonard (re: Bug 10772)
12:15 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10772 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , IE7 not loading reset-fonts-grids.css in staff client
12:16 oleonard Are there really people out there using Windows 2000 who can't upgrade to IE8?
12:16 oleonard Windows XP is so old Microsoft doesn't even support it anymore, and even that can run IE8.
12:16 jcamins Probably.
12:17 oleonard Who are these IE7 users and what the hell is wrong with them/their IT departments?
12:21 edveal joined #koha
12:22 drojf windows 2000 was the last windows i had installed in a non-VM version. good times. i might consider using it again if koha works with IE7 :P
12:25 drojf actually win2k only had IE6 i think
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12:39 * oleonard ought to see if we can fund Bug 6615 this year...
12:39 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6615 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle.m.hall, NEW , Add shelving location option to transfers page
12:40 druthb g'morning, #koha!
12:41 kf hi druthb
12:41 * druthb wriggles happily
12:44 oleonard Where did this empty pbr folder come from and why isn't it filled with cheap beer?
12:47 tcohen morning #koha
12:49 kf morning tcohen
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13:56 magnuse is there a known limit to how many patrons can be imported at once with the "import patrons" tool?
13:58 kf hm not aknown one
13:59 kf but it can take a while
14:10 gmcharlt and too long (by default, 10 minutes), and the Apache backend process times out
14:25 mcooper joined #koha
14:41 tcohen @later tell eythian I need your advice for including a config file in case a suggested dependency is installed (bash-completion)
14:41 huginn` tcohen: The operation succeeded.
14:43 kf tcohen:  i think he is still on vacation
14:43 kf might take a bit until you hear back
14:43 tcohen thanks for telling kf
14:46 kf np
14:49 huginn` New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 10761: (follow-up) use explicit return in C4::Reports::Guided::delete_report() <[…]557ea371b42b124d0> / Bug 10761: (follow-up) change return in C4::Reports::Guided::delete_report() <[…]40991bf8fa0e3b720> / Bug 10761: UT: add unit tests for save_report an
14:52 drojf tcohen kf eythian is still on vacation and really looking forward to hundreds of "@ later"s :P
14:57 jenkins_koha Starting build #60 for job master_maria (previous build: SUCCESS)
14:58 oleonard eythian should have set up a vacation @later autoresponder
15:00 drojf heh
15:01 jenkins_koha Starting build #1380 for job Koha_master (previous build: SUCCESS)
15:04 drojf wahanui: @later tell eythian is <eythian> i am out of office right now. thank you for leaving a message. if i do not get back to you within one hour, please leave me another message.
15:04 wahanui drojf: de rien
15:06 tcohen hehe
15:11 drojf omg, i made filemaker do an sql query. i feel like a mad scientist doing frankenstein-y things.
15:11 drojf filemaker--
15:25 druthb mad_scientists++
15:25 druthb drojf++   # I am so stealing "frankenstein-y".
15:27 reiveune bye
15:27 reiveune left #koha
15:27 drojf druthb: i'm going to allow this :)
15:28 kf :)
15:29 huginn` New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 10743: Add styles to 'my privacy' page in OPAC <[…]e6ddd6e22a151d6bf>
15:34 jenkins_koha Project master_maria build #60: SUCCESS in 37 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]/master_maria/60/
15:34 jenkins_koha * Owen Leonard: Bug 3134: add ability to selelct multiple reports to delete at once
15:34 jenkins_koha * Owen Leonard: Bug 3134: [Follow-up] Ability to select multiple reports to delete at once
15:34 jenkins_koha * Jonathan Druart: Bug 3134: highlight all selected reports when confirming deletion of multiple reports
15:34 jenkins_koha * Jonathan Druart: Bug 3134: (follow-up) improve ID and peport name sorting on saved reports page
15:34 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3134 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Master , Ability to select multiple reports to delete at once
15:34 jenkins_koha * Jonathan Druart: Bug 3134: (follow-up) Reindent delete_report
15:34 jenkins_koha * Kenza Zaki: Bug 10761: UT: add unit tests for save_report and delete_report in C4::Reports::Guided
15:34 jenkins_koha * Jonathan Druart: Bug 10761: (follow-up) change return in C4::Reports::Guided::delete_report()
15:34 jenkins_koha * Galen Charlton: Bug 10761: (follow-up) use explicit return in C4::Reports::Guided::delete_report()
15:34 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10761 normal, P5 - low, ---, kenza.zaki, Pushed to Master , UT: saved_report and delete_report in need unit tests.
15:34 jenkins_koha Starting build #61 for job master_maria (previous build: SUCCESS)
15:59 meliss1 joined #koha
15:59 meliss1 left #koha
16:06 gaetan_B bye !
16:12 jenkins_koha Project master_maria build #61: SUCCESS in 37 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]/master_maria/61/
16:12 jenkins_koha Nicole C. Engard: Bug 10743: Add styles to 'my privacy' page in OPAC
16:12 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10743 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, nengard, Pushed to Master , add style to privacy rules
16:16 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #1380: UNSTABLE in 1 hr 15 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]Koha_master/1380/
16:16 jenkins_koha * Owen Leonard: Bug 3134: add ability to selelct multiple reports to delete at once
16:16 jenkins_koha * Owen Leonard: Bug 3134: [Follow-up] Ability to select multiple reports to delete at once
16:16 jenkins_koha * Jonathan Druart: Bug 3134: highlight all selected reports when confirming deletion of multiple reports
16:16 jenkins_koha * Jonathan Druart: Bug 3134: (follow-up) improve ID and peport name sorting on saved reports page
16:16 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3134 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Master , Ability to select multiple reports to delete at once
16:16 jenkins_koha * Jonathan Druart: Bug 3134: (follow-up) Reindent delete_report
16:16 jenkins_koha * Kenza Zaki: Bug 10761: UT: add unit tests for save_report and delete_report in C4::Reports::Guided
16:16 jenkins_koha * Jonathan Druart: Bug 10761: (follow-up) change return in C4::Reports::Guided::delete_report()
16:16 jenkins_koha * Galen Charlton: Bug 10761: (follow-up) use explicit return in C4::Reports::Guided::delete_report()
16:16 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10761 normal, P5 - low, ---, kenza.zaki, Pushed to Master , UT: saved_report and delete_report in need unit tests.
16:18 jenkins_koha Starting build #1381 for job Koha_master (previous build: UNSTABLE -- last SUCCESS #1379 23 hr ago)
16:18 mtompset joined #koha
16:18 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
16:18 mtompset How do I delete dangling blobs?
16:19 * druthb waves to mtompset
16:19 mtompset Greetings, druthb. :)
16:22 mtompset So any ideas on how to reset a git repo without a full reclone?
16:23 jcamins mtompset: for dangling blobs I generally recommend seeing a specialist.
16:23 jcamins But, A) why are you trying to do this, and B) git gc.
16:24 mtompset because a series of git am's and git bz's (ordering and attempts all lost) have created a git mess.
16:24 jcamins In what way?
16:24 mtompset I now have dangling blobs.
16:24 mtompset I have files in a branch that I wasn't expecting.
16:25 mtompset I have files with contents that are in another branch.
16:25 * drojf recommends fire
16:25 mtompset I just want to reset without a full reclone.
16:25 mtompset downloading is a pain!
16:25 jcamins So you are saying that you accidentally added commits to the wrong branch?
16:26 mtompset I may have and not noticed until now, but it seems strange that a 'git diff origin/master' didn't pop out these difference.
16:27 jcamins And are you sure they are actually on your branch?
16:27 jcamins How do you know you have dangling blobs? Did you get an error message?
16:27 mtompset git fsck
16:28 mtompset nevermind... I'm taking the pain AGAIN.
16:28 kf mtompset: not sure it's necessary
16:28 jcamins Dangling blobs are not a problem.
16:28 kf but without telling us what the problem is a bit better it's hard to tell :)
16:30 kf it's really hard to break git actually
16:31 jcamins I managed once.
16:31 jcamins Catastrophic disk failure FTW.
16:31 kf that doesn't count really, does it?
16:32 jcamins However, since mtompset did not say "how do I recover data from a disk that has suffered a catastrophic failure and corrupted 90% of my files?" I suppose that's not the problem we're dealing with.
16:32 jcamins kf: well... git was unhappy.
16:32 mtompset No, that wasn't the problem.
16:33 mtompset I don't know how but my one branch tracking origin/master had edits in it, but 'git diff origin/master' wasn't showing differences.
16:33 liw I  broke git today, by having my laptop crash
16:33 jcamins mtompset: just as a thing-for-next-time, did you check to see that the files that were actuall committed?
16:33 jcamins *that were changed were actually
16:33 mtompset They were.
16:34 jcamins Interesting.
16:34 wahanui interesting is sometimes good and sometimes bad
16:34 mtompset I really need to keep track of what I am doing, so I don't keep doing this.
16:34 jcamins I have three screens full of dangling blobs.
16:34 mtompset I was trying to apply that bug you mentioned yesterday, jcamins. But was having difficulty.
16:35 jcamins In case you were wondering.
16:35 mtompset There has to be a nice way to remove dangling blobs/trees.
16:35 jcamins Yes, I told you. git gc. But that's not your problem.
16:35 mtompset git gc didn't remove them.
16:36 jcamins You have to look in the documentation to find the correct argument to forcibly remove them.
16:36 jcamins git tries to save you from doing something you'll regret like forcibly deleting possibly-useful data.
16:36 mtompset Yes, I discovered that.
16:38 kf bye all :)
16:38 kf left #koha
16:39 huginn` New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 10761: (follow-up) remove inadvertant dependence on Perl 5.14 <[…]f26751db09cf90231>
16:42 jenkins_koha Starting build #62 for job master_maria (previous build: SUCCESS)
16:55 tcohen @later tell kf I think it is, because bgkriegel is not available till past-release time
16:55 huginn` tcohen: The operation succeeded.
16:55 drojf left #koha
17:18 jenkins_koha Project master_maria build #62: SUCCESS in 36 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]/master_maria/62/
17:18 jenkins_koha Galen Charlton: Bug 10761: (follow-up) remove inadvertant dependence on Perl 5.14
17:18 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10761 normal, P5 - low, ---, kenza.zaki, Pushed to Master , UT: saved_report and delete_report in need unit tests.
17:30 NateC joined #koha
17:31 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #1381: STILL UNSTABLE in 1 hr 13 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]Koha_master/1381/
17:31 jenkins_koha Nicole C. Engard: Bug 10743: Add styles to 'my privacy' page in OPAC
17:31 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10743 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, nengard, Pushed to Master , add style to privacy rules
17:32 jenkins_koha Starting build #1382 for job Koha_master (previous build: STILL UNSTABLE -- last SUCCESS #1379 1 day 0 hr ago)
17:36 * magnuse pokes his head in again
17:37 * druthb waves to magnuse
17:38 * magnuse waves to druthb
17:41 NateC joined #koha
17:43 magnuse kia ora NateC!
17:43 magnuse um, is it really necessary that "Import patrons" says "Parsing upload file test.csv" for each and every line in the imported file?
17:52 NateC joined #koha
17:57 magnuse @wunder boo
17:57 huginn` magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 10.0°C (7:50 PM CEST on August 21, 2013). Conditions: Rain Showers. Humidity: 100%. Dew Point: 10.0°C. Pressure: 29.86 in 1011 hPa (Rising).
17:57 magnuse humidity-induced ouch!
17:57 mtompset joined #koha
17:58 mtompset Greetings again, #koha.
17:58 mtompset Got to love wireless issues.
17:59 mtompset Okay, so, I'd like to play with the bug that you mentioned yesterday, jcamins, but it says it is against 3.14, but there is no such tag, so I tried master, but it conflicts like crazy. So, how could it be signed off?
18:00 jcamins It's against master.
18:00 jcamins Get someone to rebase it.
18:00 * jcamins didn't write it, and last looked at it ages and ages ago.
18:01 mtompset or suffer the pain of rebasing it myself?
18:01 oleonard Which bug?
18:01 mtompset (if you want something done quickly, yourself is usually better)
18:01 mtompset bug 6874
18:01 wahanui bug 6874 is, like, epic
18:01 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6874 enhancement, P3, ---, julian.maurice, Needs Signoff , File upload in MARC
18:01 jcamins Right.
18:02 NateC joined #koha
18:03 cait joined #koha
18:04 cait DND? :)
18:04 * cait waves
18:05 oleonard DND is Do Not Disturb
18:05 oleonard DND is also Dungeons 'n' Dragons
18:05 wahanui okay, oleonard.
18:05 cait i was thinking about the second one :)
18:09 drojf joined #koha
18:09 cait hey drojf
18:09 drojf hi cait
18:12 NateC joined #koha
18:13 druthb cait!  drojf!
18:13 drojf druthb!
18:13 cait druthb!
18:13 drojf lol
18:13 cait hehe
18:13 druthb :D
18:13 * druthb shares cookies, and fruit-and-nut bars.
18:14 drojf cookies!
18:14 wahanui Cookies are delicious delicacies
18:16 cait cookies :)
18:17 pianohacker joined #koha
18:25 bgkriegel joined #koha
18:29 Lee_in_Butte joined #koha
18:29 oleonard Hi Lee_in_Butte!
18:30 Lee_in_Butte hey there
18:31 Lee_in_Butte just checking to be sure this irc link still works....on my end. I wanna catch the meeting today
18:31 oleonard meeting?
18:31 mtompset Meeting?
18:31 mtompset You owe me a coke. ;)
18:32 oleonard Didn't say jinx! Jinx!
18:32 oleonard You owe *me* a coke!
18:32 mtompset What?! That's not the rules.
18:32 Lee_in_Butte LOL sorry its on the 28th
18:32 Lee_in_Butte not the 21
18:32 Lee_in_Butte duh
18:32 oleonard It's okay Lee_in_Butte, just hang out til then.
18:32 mtompset Still good to know the IRC link is working. :)
18:33 * magnuse waves to Lee_in_Butte
18:33 Lee_in_Butte yeah... nothing else I rather do than hang with you O
18:33 jcamins There's a meeting on the 28th?
18:34 oleonard KohaCon meeting jcamins
18:34 Lee_in_Butte There will be an IRC meeting on Wednesday August 28 to update everyone on the KohaCon 13 progress.  Meeting time is 18 UTC.
18:34 pastebot "mtompset" at pasted "Is this good code? Why not use GetMarcFromKohaField in C4::Biblio?" (3 lines) at
18:34 jcamins Ah.
18:34 Lee_in_Butte posted on the listserv by nancy Keener
18:35 jcamins mtompset: at a guess because it doesn't map to a Koha field.
18:35 magnuse Lee_in_Butte: http://kohadevreactions.tumblr[…]a-while-pops-back
18:36 mtompset So, the 856$u field gets put into the MARCXML field or something?
18:37 jcamins That is true of most fields, so, based on that snippet, I'm speculating that is true of the 856$u too, yes.
18:37 mtompset okay. Then I guess hard coding is the way to do it. :)
18:45 jenkins_koha Yippie, build fixed!
18:45 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #1382: FIXED in 1 hr 14 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]Koha_master/1382/
18:45 jenkins_koha Galen Charlton: Bug 10761: (follow-up) remove inadvertant dependence on Perl 5.14
18:45 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10761 normal, P5 - low, ---, kenza.zaki, Pushed to Master , UT: saved_report and delete_report in need unit tests.
18:47 jenkins_koha Starting build #1383 for job Koha_master (previous build: FIXED)
18:53 NateC joined #koha
18:59 magnuse confetti!
18:59 wahanui confetti is, like,[…]1qh8hleo1_400.gif
19:00 magnuse @confetti!
19:00 huginn` magnuse: I've exhausted my database of quotes
19:02 cait :)
19:02 cait i have heard there is gbsd this friday? :)
19:02 cait confetti!
19:02 wahanui confetti is[…]1qh8hleo1_400.gif
19:05 jcamins My new favorite LCSH classification: "general special."
19:06 jcamins Rather, LC classification.
19:06 jcamins Because real people will *totally* understand that.
19:08 drojf confetti?
19:08 wahanui o/ '`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`
19:08 drojf more confetti?
19:08 wahanui o/ '`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'​`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'
19:08 NateC joined #koha
19:08 drojf @later tell eythian test
19:08 huginn` drojf: The operation succeeded.
19:08 drojf unfair
19:09 drojf bad wahanui, no cookie
19:10 mtompset general special?! Isn't that like saying stupid smart?
19:11 mtompset Or flying purple people eater without punctuation?
19:11 jcamins No, more like stupid stupid.
19:12 jcamins Ba dum pssshhh.
19:12 jcamins :P
19:16 * cait wonders where to put a page for a qa team irc meeting in the wiki
19:17 drojf "QA_IRC_meeting_<date>" as opposed to "General_IRC_meeting_<date>"?
19:18 cait hm
19:18 cait mediawiki still puzzles me
19:18 drojf because it is too easy to use? :)
19:18 jcamins drojf: are we talking about the same wiki?
19:20 drojf is it not? maybe i did not try the fun stuff
19:20 mtompset Greetings, tcohen cait drojf.
19:23 cait hi mtompset
19:23 cait[…]g,_22_August_2013
19:24 oleonard So what if I redesigned the OPAC place hold screen? Rough:
19:24 tcohen hi mtompset
19:25 cait hm placing holds for multiple items from the result list?
19:25 mtompset Is there a before shot?
19:25 gmcharlt oleonard: looks OK, but the checkboxes seem to be free-floating; I think they should preceed the title
19:26 * mtompset nods in agreement with gmcharlt.
19:26 oleonard gmcharlt: Sure, I just wanted to float the general idea
19:26 cait oleonard: i wonde about the edit notes link a bit
19:26 jcamins I like the idea, but I think the Edit notes link might be confusing.
19:26 oleonard Okay, but the VERY GENERAL IDEA people are okay with?
19:26 jcamins Yes.
19:26 oleonard :)
19:27 gmcharlt yes
19:27 nitpicker but... but... but...
19:27 mtompset cait? Is it a yes or no?
19:27 gmcharlt ;)
19:27 mtompset one more yes and he goes to hollywood. ;)
19:28 cait oleonard: i am undecided :(
19:28 cait i have no idea how it looks now actually
19:28 mtompset I did ask about a before shot. ;)
19:29 oleonard Geez don't you guys ever place holds from the OPAC? :P
19:30 mtompset Nope. :P
19:30 oleonard
19:31 cait only from one record
19:31 cait after the other
19:31 mtompset Hmmm... you lost the title "Place on" related to the radio buttons.
19:31 tcohen bye #koha
19:32 tcohen heading home to do some rmaint tasks
19:32 cait oleonard: i think i like yours better :)
19:32 oleonard Okay, I will keep tinkering with it... tomorrow.
19:32 cait with a bit more styling :)
19:32 oleonard Now I will leave.
19:32 mtompset Bye, tcohen.
19:32 oleonard Bye #koha
19:33 mtompset I think your rough draft is an impro--vement.
19:33 cait bgkriegel++ # being an awesome German translator!
19:45 maximep man, is the best thing ever -_-
19:46 cait wizzyrea++
19:59 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #1383: SUCCESS in 1 hr 13 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]Koha_master/1383/
20:02 talljoy joined #koha
20:04 cait @wunder Konstanz
20:04 huginn` cait: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 18.6°C (10:00 PM CEST on August 21, 2013). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 59%. Dew Point: 10.0°C. Pressure: 30.18 in 1022 hPa (Steady).
20:05 druthb nice and pleasant in Germany!
20:05 cait heh
20:05 druthb @wunder 77063
20:05 cait you mean not super hot?
20:05 huginn` druthb: The current temperature in Briargrove Park, Houston, Texas is 34.7°C (3:05 PM CDT on August 21, 2013). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 37%. Dew Point: 18.0°C. Pressure: 30.00 in 1016 hPa (Steady).
20:06 rangi morning
20:06 * cait suggests that all koha people move to Konstanz
20:06 cait morning rangi :)
20:06 druthb suits me, cait.
20:06 rangi are there any RDA proponents there?
20:06 rangi cos they are still arguing with me on twitter
20:06 druthb lol
20:06 druthb wahanui:  RDA?
20:06 * wahanui huh, good god y'all, what is it good for, absolutely nothing
20:06 druthb lol
20:07 jcamins rangi: really?
20:07 wahanui really is off now
20:07 rangi yup
20:07 jcamins Who argues that RDA isn't crap?
20:07 rangi[…]70234771286147073
20:07 jcamins Unless you're arguing that, in which case, OH MY GOD SOMEONE KIDNAPPED RANGI AND REPLACED HIM WITH AN ALIEN!
20:08 druthb lulz
20:08 druthb wahanui:  botsnack RDA proponents.
20:08 wahanui thanks druthb :)
20:09 rangi i understand RDA could potentially be good ... im just saying that at the moment it isnt :)
20:09 rangi but i seem unabel to make that point
20:12 drojf and good morning rdangi ;)
20:18 rangi right time to go to school
20:23 mtompset 3.4?
20:23 wahanui 3.4 is, like, Koha 3.4.0 was released 22 April 2011
20:27 tcohen joined #koha
20:34 wizzyrea rangi++ for fighting the good fight with librarians re: RDA
20:35 cait doens't he always? :)
20:36 wizzyrea mtompsett++
20:36 wizzyrea for good advice on the mailing list
20:36 drojf mtompset++
20:36 wizzyrea mtompset++ even
20:37 mtompset I didn't spend hours on end to write bad instructions, only to have someone confuse the masses. :)
20:38 mtompset plus, my tarball instructions are better, but I didn't link to them. ;)
20:38 drojf "webapp" is a funny word for an ILS
20:38 wizzyrea ...perhaps we should use them in install.ubuntu or install.debian instead of what's there?
20:39 wizzyrea just sayin.
20:39 mtompset We have an earlier variation of my tarball instructions in the install.ubuntu type files.
20:39 mtompset I'm hoping to generalize to "source based install".
20:40 mtompset and then clean up the excessive ubuntu install instruction files.
20:40 wizzyrea mmm yea wouldn't generalise
20:40 mtompset but I haven't gotten to it yet.
20:40 wizzyrea often that gets really confusing for people.
20:40 mtompset wizzyrea: You are in the minority opinion on that.
20:40 wizzyrea it's not confusing for people who know what they're doing already
20:41 fredy joined #koha
20:41 mtompset I understand where you are coming from, and would love a INSTALL.ubuntu.git and INSTALL.ubuntu.tar, but the fact is, it isn't about the tar or git... it is about the dev, standard, or single.
20:41 mtompset you can do a standard install from a git directory.
20:42 mtompset you can do a dev install from a tarball.
20:42 wizzyrea right - just don't generalise away from distro specific instructions.
20:42 wizzyrea you said generalise and I heard "instructions for everybody in one monolith"
20:42 mtompset oh no... it would be ubuntu specific.
20:43 mtompset I would generalize away the git vs. tarball.
20:43 gmcharlt reorganize so that we have INSTALL & INSTALL.special, perhaps?
20:43 wizzyrea speaking of trivial changes, I promised a humans. txt
20:43 cait humans.txt?
20:44 jcamins Speaking of humans.txt, Myshkin feels discriminated against.
20:44 wizzyrea kek.
20:44 mtompset gmcharlt: INSTALL.{OS}.{dev|standard|single}?
20:44 wizzyrea when myshkin submits a patch, I'll add felines.txt
20:44 wizzyrea ;)
20:44 ibeardslee humans.txt = "Ask a non-human sysadmin to read the INSTALL.TXT" ?
20:44 wizzyrea no
20:45 * mtompset is going to pick up his son from daycare.
20:45 gmcharlt mtompset: too much, IMO -- at least at the top level
20:45 tcohen joined #koha
20:45 * jcamins thinks that single should probably be abolished.
20:45 gmcharlt why I'm spitballing is having the top-level install docs be few(er) in number, and focus on the most common, recommended scenarios
20:46 wizzyrea ^^^
20:46 jcamins The argument for it was that "it'll work on shared hosting," but that is absolutely not the case anymore.
20:46 tcohen lets make standard == packages
20:46 jcamins +1
20:46 gmcharlt and relegate some of the more obscure scenarios down in docs/
20:46 wizzyrea so much this.
20:48 wizzyrea ibeardslee:
20:48 tcohen i forgot my own work on putting memcache stuff in apache conf :/
20:49 ibeardslee wizzyrea: ahh .. good idea
20:50 wizzyrea we already have a history file, I think, why not use that for humans.txt?
20:50 wizzyrea that way every koha has one ;)
20:50 gmcharlt
20:50 wizzyrea haha
20:50 jcamins lol
20:51 cait lol
20:51 * cait sends greetings to myshkin
20:51 cait jcamins: are you still visiting the blue cat?
20:52 jcamins cait: not recently.
20:52 cait ooh
20:52 tcohen smurf cat?
20:52 drnoe left #koha
20:53 jcamins Hehe.
20:53 jcamins No, this cat was just blue.
20:54 tcohen that's possimpible
20:56 ryan joined #koha
21:00 fredy joined #koha
21:13 jcamins I have 5 tomatoes, 3 cucumbers, 2 tiny bulbs of fennel, and 2 green peppers.
21:13 jcamins What should we have for dinner?
21:14 wizzyrea mediterranean salad
21:14 tcohen what is using C4/ ? everything?
21:14 wizzyrea i seem to recall it had something to do with the borrower search
21:14 gmcharlt tcohen: some bits here and there, including patron search
21:15 jcamins Nearly everything.
21:15 wizzyrea snap!
21:15 gmcharlt but something that can go away once DBIC is in
21:15 cait jcamins: sounds like salad yes
21:15 tcohen so, memcached config variables are needed in both apache and koha-conf.xml
21:15 cait jcamins:  or antipasti
21:15 jcamins tcohen: just in Apache at the moment, I think.
21:16 jcamins Though it should be changed so that it can be done in koha-conf.xml, now that it's possible to cache koha-conf even with the settings there.
21:16 wizzyrea I changed the wording slightly here to yet more strongly suggest packages
21:16 wizzyrea
21:16 jcamins Excellent!
21:18 rangi back
21:19 cait wb
21:19 tcohen my memcached for packages patch is wrong then, it relies on koha-conf.xml, which is wrong
21:19 jcamins tcohen: I did not look at it.
21:20 tcohen jcamisn: changing "so that it can be done in koha-conf.xml" means rewrite some stuff, right?
21:21 tcohen it looks like SQLHelper needs those settings on koha-conf.xml, and the rest uses ENV
21:21 tcohen C4/    my $servers = C4::Context->config('memcached_servers');
21:21 jcamins It means looking at C4::Context->config('memcached_servers').
21:21 jcamins Oh, lovely.
21:21 rangi tcohen: no yours is right, memcache settigns in the httpd conf are wrong :) (imho)
21:22 jcamins rangi: well, sure, but the settings should do something.
21:22 tcohen hi rangi, yes, but currently the code looks for them in apache
21:22 rangi yep
21:22 rangi i remember having a spaz when that was changed and losing that fight
21:23 tcohen as i see it, this intermediate state is a problem
21:23 rangi but yeah in my spare time someday, mayble ill change the apache config to look at the koha-conf.xml and set its variables
21:24 * gmcharlt apropos of nothign at all, whistles the bug 10503 tune
21:24 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10503 normal, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, Signed Off , incorrect initialization parameters passed to Memoize::Memcached
21:24 rangi :)
21:24 tcohen i'm pretty sure people have mixed settings all over the place, thinking they have a functional memcached setup
21:24 * cait gave up on trying to set it up
21:24 gmcharlt (along the lines of regardless of how the settings are passed, it helps if the current cache is actually fully used ;) )
21:24 * jcamins thinks that memcached is mostly unusable anyway thanks to our use of memoize_memcached.
21:25 rangi unfortunately yes, and we should remove those
21:25 rangi and do caching proplery
21:25 jcamins Fortunately we have a cache module that could do that.
21:25 rangi exactly
21:26 rangi we are 80% of the way to sane caching :)
21:26 jcamins And we even have a shim cache *object* for those people who don't want to actually think about caching.
21:26 jcamins Wait...
21:26 fredy joined #koha
21:26 jcamins did I push that?
21:26 jcamins Maybe we don't.
21:26 jcamins Well, at the very least, there's an example of a shim object somewhere in bugzilla.
21:26 rangi *nod*
21:26 jcamins Oh, yeah, I did push it.
21:27 jcamins So, those of you who have been thinking "I'd use caching if only I didn't have to call set and get myself, you're in luck.
21:27 rangi :)
21:27 rangi maybe thats a good hackfest task
21:27 rangi remove all traces of memoize
21:27 rangi and replace with saner caching
21:28 rangi we could even unit test it ... shock horror!!
21:28 rangi :)
21:28 gmcharlt rangi: as long as the replacement actually gets done, as opposed to the current incomplete state?
21:28 gmcharlt just a thought
21:28 rangi yeah
21:28 jcamins I wrote a patch that changed the sysprefs, but it didn't work on Squeeze, so I reverted it.
21:28 jcamins Arguably I should've fixed it, but as patch author and RM, no one had any opportunity to try and make me.
21:29 rangi heh
21:29 rangi the sysprefs have/had bigger problems
21:29 rangi they were doing in perl caching too
21:29 gmcharlt jcamins: cachhing sysprefs have always struck me as potentially the least bang for the buck -- mostly on account of the fact that MySQL does caching too
21:29 rangi which was yuck
21:29 tcohen how long ago was memoize introduced?
21:30 rangi a while, only recently was it fixed to actually ever expire
21:30 jcamins gmcharlt: caching sysprefs is an expensive and wasteful operation.
21:30 gmcharlt '09
21:30 jcamins It was a horrible idea.
21:30 jcamins But, some people are *very attached* to it.
21:30 gmcharlt you're telling me!
21:30 rangi caching the output of heavy functions
21:30 rangi thats what we should be doing, not the result of sql queries
21:31 rangi mysql can do them faster than we can fetch and deserialize
21:31 jcamins I had to scream and shout in order to get my patch that makes it possible to disable the syspref cache in.
21:31 tcohen paul's tests concluded caching sysprefs was not worth the trouble, yes
21:31 gmcharlt speaking of config
21:31 rangi im sure ive ranted about caching before too
21:31 rangi that it isnt for speed (at least not the first goal) but for scalability
21:32 gmcharlt how badly would folks be terried at the prospect of koha-conf.xml => zebra-conf.xml + //yazgfs/config from the old koha-conf.xml turning into a simpler text file
21:32 rangi but even with that in mind, youd struggle to ever reach the point where you overloaded the db with syspref queries
21:32 gmcharlt in particular, as a possible target for 3.14
21:32 rangi gmcharlt: id be fine with it, because its something that is provable
21:33 rangi ie you can test it works easily
21:33 jcamins rangi: yeah, but with sysprefs, that doesn't even apply, because scalability is only a reasonable argument if you're preloading, and it takes days to make up for the expense, especially with Apache.
21:33 rangi jcamins: exactly, apache will asplode well before mysql
21:33 jcamins If you're worried about syspref queries, reduce the number of times you query the same syspref.
21:33 rangi caching the rendered html snippets
21:34 rangi and the output of things like the getlanguages
21:34 rangi makes sense to me
21:34 gmcharlt and the MARC frameworks, which are indeed expensive to recalculate
21:34 rangi yep
21:35 rangi i made the first one really easy too
21:35 rangi with the TT plugin
21:36 gmcharlt rendered XSLT output
21:36 rangi yep
21:36 jcamins The next page of search results.
21:36 rangi http://perldoc.koha-community.[…]Plugin/Cache.html
21:36 jcamins 20ms response time on search results *rocks*.
21:36 gmcharlt jcamins: not for the coffee producers of the world!
21:37 rangi you could totally make the search results an include (including the rendered xslt)
21:37 * jcamins should know, he's spent the last half hour going back and forth in search results admiring the speed and responsiveness.
21:37 jcamins Okay, doing other things too.
21:37 rangi :)
21:37 jcamins But it's hard to resist just paginating back and forth.
21:37 wizzyrea ^ not koha eh?
21:38 jcamins lol
21:38 jcamins No.
21:38 jcamins I just added redis to Biblionarrator.
21:39 gmcharlt jcamins: which reminds me of a thought that's been wandering all alone through my mind -- redis is arguably a better session store than memcached
21:39 jcamins I don't entirely understand the difference between the two, but redis is pretty impressive.
21:40 rangi redis can write to disk
21:40 rangi so for sessions, yes
21:40 jcamins I chose redis because I was told "you should be using redis."
21:40 rangi another reason for memoize_memcached to die
21:43 rangi the Koha::Cache can do Memcached, FastMmap and Memory now, and could put Redis in there without much effort too
21:43 jcamins Easily.
21:43 gmcharlt OK, so are there any patches pending to completely drop direct memcached access?
21:44 jcamins There is the patch I abandoned.
21:44 jcamins Bug 8089
21:44 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8089 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, ASSIGNED , Use Koha::Cache everywhere
21:44 rangi oh yeah
21:45 rangi yep thats part of it, killing the sysprefs
21:45 rangi follow up would be the memoize_memcached
21:45 * rangi has a quick play with the patch
21:46 rangi can you remember what the problem with squeeze was?
21:46 jcamins I couldn't figure out why it was failing, actually.
21:46 rangi ohh its applies clean still
21:46 jcamins The tests passed for me, but not on jenkins, or on a second Squeeze VM I tried them on, and it was late, so I reverted.
21:47 jcamins Both late in terms of release cycle, and late in terms of I was probably tired because the problem appeared at 10pm.
21:47 rangi yeah
21:47 rangi they work on my ubuntu, ill have to test on squeeze too
21:48 jcamins I think my theory is that we may have been running afoul of the fact that the regular memcached library for Perl is BROKEN.
21:48 rangi hmm
21:49 rangi and we have since switched to Fast eh?
21:49 jcamins Yeah.
21:49 rangi well they seem to pass for me, i wonder if its worth pushing it up to jenkins and seeing if he still hates it
21:49 jcamins Well... it falls back if there's no other option. But I think my thought was that the failures might have been because on Squeeze memcached::fast doesn't work.
21:49 * rangi defers to gmcharlt
21:50 gmcharlt jcamins: I'll take a look at it
21:51 jcamins Wait...
21:51 jcamins I'm a little confused.
21:51 jcamins Hm.
21:51 gmcharlt hmm, wait
21:51 jcamins Where are we using memoize?
21:51 rangi C4/Languages
21:51 rangi we used to anyway
21:51 gmcharlt any pending patches that do more than just the syspref cache?
21:52 jcamins I wrote a patch that did.
21:52 gmcharlt jcamins: also C4/
21:52 jcamins And I have no idea where it is.
21:52 rangi C4::Koha
21:52 gmcharlt git-fetch jcamins-brain
21:52 rangi and C4::SQLHelper
21:52 rangi so 4 modules
21:52 jcamins Yeah, I remember patching those. We ran into problems on C4::SQLHelper, but fixed them.
21:53 gmcharlt or heck, just read the  first comment  in bug 8089 for the list :)
21:53 rangi 7 subroutines
21:53 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8089 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, ASSIGNED , Use Koha::Cache everywhere
21:53 rangi in total
21:53 rangi 6 using memoize_memcached
21:53 rangi and one using plain old memoize
21:53 jcamins gmcharlt: yeah, that's my report.
21:53 jcamins Oh, patch included.
21:54 rangi brb coffee
21:54 jcamins Ohhh. I see.
21:54 jcamins We decided to revert it because dpavlin said he was working on a better patch.
21:54 gmcharlt yeah, what was the diposition of[…]hment.cgi?id=9577 ?
21:55 gmcharlt snap
21:55 jcamins Sadly, the better patch never materialized.
21:56 BobB joined #koha
21:59 gmcharlt jcamins: my inclination is to unobsolute attachment 11400, write some test cases, and have another go
21:59 huginn` Attachment[…]11400&action=edit patch, Bug 8089: Use Koha::Cache for all caching, Bug-8089-Use-KohaCache-for-all-caching.patch
22:00 rangi im down with that
22:00 jcamins Sounds good to me.
22:01 cait :)
22:01 jcamins Darn. I should've started cooking wheatberries an hour ago.
22:01 cait i had problems with setting up caching in thepast - for testing i will need some help when you are done :)
22:01 cait but for now i go to sleep :)
22:01 cait good night all
22:01 rangi mtompset++
22:02 gmcharlt g'night!
22:02 cait left #koha
22:23 tcohen how many members does the koha list have?
22:23 tcohen we've just reached 409 in the koha-es list
22:27 rangi bug 10411
22:27 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10411 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, robin, Pushed to Stable , Add cache control headers to static resources in the apache config
22:27 papa joined #koha
22:28 tcohen any problem with that rangi?
22:28 mtompset *sigh* Just when I thought I had something done, I realized that a missing piece is probably hiding in one of the 56 obsolete'd patches. ARG!
22:29 rangi nope
22:29 rangi just that + varnish
22:29 rangi = really fast
22:29 rangi without doign anything
22:29 jcamins And varnish is a lot faster than nginx?
22:29 rangi probably about the same
22:30 rangi but varnish is a cache
22:59 maximep dont you have to do a lot of configuration in varnish to make it useful, ie to be used for anything with sessions ?
23:02 rangi by default it speeds up everything where people arent logged in
23:02 maximep our sysadmins do magic with it, but not sure I understand it yet -_-
23:02 rangi which is 90% of the opac
23:02 maximep ok
23:02 rangi but yes, you cna do magic with sessions/cookies too
23:02 rangi to get the staff side fast
23:02 maximep didn't notice much speed diff vs nginx
23:02 rangi yeah it wouldnt vs nginx
23:02 rangi it would be a ton faster vs apache tho
23:03 maximep but what isn't :P
23:04 maximep anyway gtg... noting to ask sysadmins about it tomorrow to learn more =)
23:04 maximep left #koha
23:10 tcohen is there a benchmark for apache + mod_itk?
23:10 tcohen the event module should not be that slower that nginx/lighttpd
23:11 rangi nginx is seriously fast
23:11 rangi apache2 is way way way behind
23:12 rangi it also does a ton more too
23:12 rangi[…]mance-comparison/ is quite interesting
23:16 tcohen this is the main problem:
23:17 rangi yep
23:17 rangi the main win for me with nginx, is the much lower memory footprint
23:17 rangi i OOM my testing box before i OOM the nginx server
23:17 rangi i can overwhelm apache with 100 concurrent requests
23:18 rangi it just hits swap, and we are dead in the water
23:18 tcohen heh, been there
23:19 tcohen we ended up putting an haproxy in front of our apache's
23:19 tcohen and load balancing
23:20 rangi yeah
23:20 tcohen (just because our sysadmins don't want to try an event-based http server)
23:21 rangi ahh right
23:21 dcook joined #koha
23:21 rangi has varnish and nginx
23:21 rangi in front of apache
23:22 tcohen several hosts?
23:23 rangi yep
23:23 rangi lots
23:23 mtompset is there a nice way to change the default repository one is using?
23:24 tcohen found jcamins' blue cat[…]k-on-planet-Earth
23:24 tcohen %s/old_one/new_one/g
23:24 mtompset and where is a list?
23:24 * dcook is so lost at the moment
23:24 mtompset I was hoping for a command line type of command.
23:24 rangi what do you mean default repository?
23:25 rangi do you mean git remote?
23:25 mtompset sudo apt-get update...
23:25 rangi there is no such thing as a default in that case
23:25 mtompset well, you select it on install.
23:25 rangi its wahtever you have in your /etc/apt/sources.list
23:25 rangi and whatever is in /etc/apt/sources.lists.d/
23:25 wahanui Hmm.  No matches for that, rangi.
23:25 mtompset is there a way to re-select it?
23:26 rangi edit those files
23:26 tcohen a perl oneliner maybe?
23:26 mtompset Well, where do I get a list of possibilities?
23:26 wizzyrea what's the problem you're trying to solve?
23:26 rangi there are as many possibilites as there are grains of sand
23:27 tcohen perl -i -pe  's/ca.ubuntu/ar.ubuntu/g' /etc/apt/suorces.list  :-P
23:27 tcohen repository for what mtompset ? Debian? Ubuntu?
23:28 mtompset debian, actually. :)
23:28 rangi
23:29 jcamins What are you trying to do?
23:29 mtompset Fix my networking. I just rebooted the VM, all is good. Don't know why though.
23:29 mtompset I blame virtualbox. :)
23:30 tcohen ksplice is free for Ubuntu? gotta give it a try
23:31 dcook tcohen: Sounds interesting
23:32 rangi oracle own it now
23:32 rangi they'll wreck it
23:32 rangi its what they do
23:33 dcook Own all the things!
23:33 rangi and wreck them all!
23:34 tcohen hehe
23:34 rangi i tel you what is cool tho
23:34 rangi openshift
23:35 rangi
23:35 rangi + dancer
23:35 rangi check this out
23:35 wizzyrea hmmm
23:36 dcook dancer sounds familiar..
23:36 rangi it runs the dashboard
23:37 rangi and other stuff
23:37 wahanui other stuff is, like, cool too
23:37 dcook I was thinking it might be the dashboard..hmm
23:37 jcamins Ummm...
23:37 jcamins what is OpenShift?
23:37 rangi redhats PAAS
23:37 jcamins Another one of those deploy-via-git development services?
23:37 wizzyrea oh that *is* interesting
23:37 rangi platform as a server
23:37 rangi service even
23:37 jcamins There are a bunch of services like that, aren't there?
23:37 rangi yep
23:37 rangi openshift has about the best perl support
23:38 rangi heroku is ok too
23:38 jcamins Yeah, I've heard of heroku a lot.
23:38 rangi openshift also does this
23:38 wizzyrea and you can run your own? am I reading that right?
23:39 jcamins Microsoft has one on Windows Azure. I don't think I could recommend it.
23:39 tcohen its RedHat's OpenStack product
23:39 wizzyrea I am seriously envious of their documentation site:
23:39 rangi
23:40 jcamins Nice!
23:40 rangi ie it runs it through jenkins, if it fails, it wont deploy
23:40 rangi handy
23:41 tcohen is it the answer to Juju? (or vice-versa)
23:42 dcook Whoa...if I'm reading this right...they have a free version and a premium version?
23:42 dcook So I could sign up for  the free version and just putz around a bit?
23:42 rangi thats what im doing
23:43 dcook Sweeet
23:43 rangi you get 3 applications
23:43 rangi its great for testing/showing something
23:47 dcook Hmm, I might have to keep that in mind
23:47 mtompset Question: Koha is GPL 3, right?
23:48 rangi from 3.12 yeah 3+
23:48 rangi was 2+ before that (so its all 3 as well if you want)
23:48 mtompset What if someone writes a modules releasing it under GPL 2 or later for Koha.
23:48 mtompset Do they need to change it to 3 or later?
23:49 rangi if its 2 or later
23:49 rangi when its bundled with koha it becomes 3 or later
23:49 rangi otherwise its still 2 or later
23:49 rangi if its 2
23:49 rangi without the or later
23:49 rangi it cant be released with koha
23:49 rangi unless it is changed
23:50 mtompset bug 6874 -- the author has code which is 2 or later.
23:50 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6874 enhancement, P3, ---, julian.maurice, Needs Signoff , File upload in MARC
23:51 mtompset I'm trying to back port to 3.12.x, so I can use the functionality before 3.14 (if it makes it in).
23:51 rangi they probably just copied and pasted from an old file
23:51 jcamins Nah, that code predates 3+.
23:52 mtompset Yes, it does.

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