IRC log for #koha, 2013-06-13

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:02 mtompset I'd like to confirm... if ($a=$b) { ... } is the same as $a=$b; if ($a) { ... } correct?
00:04 jcamins It means the same thing, yes.
00:04 jcamins But it is wrong.
00:04 jcamins Because it will not be understood.
00:05 gmcharlt definitely the sort of contruct that if you used it (and please don't) woudl require a comment saying "yes, I really mean it that way"
00:05 NateC joined #koha
00:08 mtompset Because I'm thinking of taking a line from tools/ and changing the logic to use AddMember_Opac if the cardnumber is not set and AddMember if it is set, and then just use if ($borrowernumber) instead of if ($borrowernumber = AddMember(%borrower)) { ... }
00:08 mtompset Because I'm about to submit a locking patch for AddMember_Opac, which would then remove the FIXME.
00:10 gmcharlt er, and thereby remove the ability for patron imports to set patron passwords?
00:17 gmcharlt also, upon reading scrollback, are you proposing to add code to actually lock the borrowers table?
00:18 dcook joined #koha
00:19 mtompset Ah... good point... forgot about the random string mess.
00:20 dcook Oh, Koha. Why you so crazy...
00:21 pastebot "mtompset" at pasted "AddMember_Opac testing" (7 lines) at
00:21 mtompset The others prevent silent errors in the error log file.
00:22 mtompset But the time is under a second for the lock, so I don't see a problem.
00:22 mtompset I put in a 90 second lock to see how it affected other accesses.
00:22 jcamins Do you need to lock action_logs?
00:23 gmcharlt we shouldn't need to lock *anything*
00:23 mtompset It generates an error log entry otherwise.
00:23 gmcharlt innodb has row-level locks
00:23 mtompset if you don't then the fixup_cardnumber doesn't generate a unique number in some cases.
00:24 gmcharlt which is something that IMO calls for a solution that just about anything other than diong table locks
00:25 mtompset I can conceptually agree to that. The problem is that I want the assurance of something that works now.
00:26 dcook O_o
00:28 jcamins If you're still working on SAML, why don't you just not use the built in automatic card number generator, which has always been not-best-practice?
00:30 jcamins Something like SAML domain + ID, or whatever SAML exposes.
00:31 mtompset automatic card number generator? What function are you thinking of? Or is this something you are suggesting I build?
00:31 gmcharlt mtompset: table locks are *specifically* not recommend for innodb; see[…]ble-locking.html; one possible alternative might be creating a table with an auto_increment key whose sole purpose is to emulatie a sequence
00:32 mtompset A hidden syspref? With row locking?
00:33 jcamins mtompset: the problem you are trying to deal with is generating cardnumbers automatically, right?
00:33 mtompset Yes. That is the problem that I am seeing.
00:37 mtompset fixup_cardnumber is okay, but it does no locking... and a second process could grab the same calculated number before AddMember is called.
00:37 mtompset Locking tables makes it atomic.
00:37 mtompset Which, I do admit is ugly, but it is functional.
00:39 * dcook would love to know how Koha turning a null in Mysql into "33"...
00:42 gmcharlt mtompset: it is not functional unless one assumes that there will never be simultaneous writes to the borrowers table; it doesn't matter how short the average lock period is
00:43 mtompset Okay, the "not recommended"
00:44 mtompset that makes the lockink tables a bad idea.
00:44 mtompset that makes the locking tables a bad idea.
00:44 gmcharlt dcook: '33'?  weird?  converting null to '', I would understand
00:44 gmcharlt rather, weird, not weird?
00:44 dcook gmcharlt: I know, right?
00:44 jcamins dcook: base e logic.
00:45 dcook jcamins: I figured there had to be some sort of logic to it :p
00:45 dcook Although I don't know why it would be happening in virtualshelves and nowhere else..
00:46 * dcook is checking out master atm
00:46 dcook I just noticed it in 3.8
00:46 jcamins dcook: it's shelf e^-1. That's why.
00:47 dcook wth...
00:47 jcamins dcook: that was nonsense, BTW. :P
00:47 jcamins mtompset: fixup_cardnumber is not okay if it doesn't work. I was suggesting a way to have something that works now.
00:47 dcook jcamins: I caught on eventually :p
00:47 gmcharlt mtompset:[…]equence-in-mysql/
00:47 gmcharlt particular comment #8
00:48 dcook But there does have to be a logic to it...
00:48 jcamins dcook: e^0 would have been harder to figure out.
00:49 dcook jcamins: When I look on my dev system, it shows 34
00:49 * dcook 's brain explodes
00:49 gmcharlt dcook: which column?
00:50 pastebot "dcook" at pasted "virtual shelves null issue" (7 lines) at
00:50 dcook size
00:50 dcook When I run the SQL, my results are showing the size column as a primary key as idea why that's happening...
00:50 mtompset Can you do stored procedures with DBI, gmcharlt?
00:51 gmcharlt mtompset: sure -- following the example, one would just grab the results of "select nextval('abc');"
00:53 mtompset Okay... so then really AddMember could be tweaked to add either the hash directly, or the hash plus a generated number in a single SQL statement, which should not need locking.
00:54 mtompset then references to fixup_cardnumber could be removed.
00:56 rangi if you want atomic, use transactions
00:57 rangi thats what they are for
01:00 mtompset so START TRANSACTION fixup_cardnumber AddMember COMMIT END TRANSACTION?
01:01 mtompset But how will that prevent a second process from starting the same transaction? Does MySQL only run one transaction at a time?
01:04 mtompset I do think a transaction patch in AddMembers would work.
01:06 mtompset And that would solve my problem. I'm going to give that a whirl shortly. Bug report title to change shortly. ;)
01:42 dcook Hmm, so Koha is generating an itemloop where size = undef
01:42 dcook And somehow...Template Toolkit is translating undef as 33 (or 34)...
01:45 dcook But...that can't be quite right...
01:45 dcook Because pages can equal undef but it doesn't come out as 33 or 34..
01:57 dcook Today is the day of bugs...
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02:36 dcook mtj: Just found an instance of when usmarc is used over marcxml
02:36 dcook sub MARCfindbreeding in
02:37 dcook GetImportRecordMarc. I imagine it could be GetImportRecordMarcXML instead. I think the MARC module can create a MARC object from MARCXML and not just the serialization...
02:45 mtompset That's the phrase I was trying to remember... critical section.
02:46 mtompset transactions don't create critical sections. Though, the do make things atomic.
02:46 mtompset transactions don't create critical sections. Though, they do make things atomic.
02:47 mtompset This is what locking does create. But since it isn't recommended on Inno DB's, that really isn't a good solution.
02:48 mtompset I suppose gmcharlt's table with autoincrement for ID is good for that, but the problem is cardnumber isn't always numeric. :(
02:49 dcook Man...there is some weird code in Koha...
02:50 mtompset Yes there is, dcook. Sadly, there is.
02:51 dcook The code controlled by "z3950NormalizeAuthor" and "z3950AuthorAuthFields"...
02:51 dcook As a MARC21 user, there's no reason to have them turned on
02:51 dcook But if you do...yeesh
02:52 dcook Even if you were a UNIMARC user...
02:52 dcook It deletes things and tries adding them before even checking that the variable has been set
02:52 dcook Koha has a bit of a hissy fit..
02:53 wizzyrea "hissy fit" is a term that is not used often enough in relation to Koha
02:54 dcook hehe
02:54 dcook I'm not even sure where to start with re-writing it. Since it's for UNIMARC, it looks completely alien
02:55 dcook I suppose wrapping it in a check "MarcFlavour" might be enough for now...
02:55 dcook And filing a bug to tell someone who knows unimarc to probably look at it
02:58 dcook I don't know why one would want to "normalize" the author...
02:58 gmcharlt dcook: I don't know, some authors are *very* strange
02:59 dcook gmcharlt: Agreed.
02:59 gmcharlt I mean, just look at Stephen King
02:59 dcook Personally, I rather remove the whole block and the system preferences...
02:59 dcook But I'm sure "someone" uses it
02:59 dcook So perhaps damage control is best...:/
02:59 dcook gmcharlt: Too true.
02:59 dcook I'll never understand the end of "Needful Things"
03:00 gmcharlt dcook: it's pretty ancient code, though; worth asking the UNIMARC users if it still servers a purpose
03:00 dcook It's like he wasn't even trying
03:00 dcook (I mean Stephen King)
03:00 gmcharlt gotcha
03:00 dcook gmcharlt: Sounds good. I'll file a bug and post it to the koha-devel listserv
03:01 mtj hey dcook, thanks for the info ^^
03:01 dcook mtj: Np. I think there are a few other instances of that scattered through Koha as well. If we do get rid of the serialization, we'll want to be pretty thorough about checking where it's still being used...
03:01 dcook Anyway, lunch time
03:01 dcook Bbiab
03:01 mtj i might log a bug to remove the bi.marc field, just as a start...
03:04 mtj (hopefully that will provoke someone to attempt to justify it's existence)
03:13 mtj bug 10455, there we go...
03:13 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10455 normal, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , remove redundant 'biblioitems.marc' field
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03:20 bag evening all
03:32 mtompset Greetings, bag.
03:32 cjh hey bag :)
03:33 bag hello
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04:06 Oak joined #koha
04:06 * Oak waves
04:07 * dcook waves to Oak
04:07 dcook mtj++
04:10 wizzyrea cjh++ I'm blind and stuff, and he is not
04:10 cjh luck :)
04:10 wizzyrea PFFFF
04:12 * cait waves
04:12 dcook hey ya cait
04:12 dcook Nice one, cjh. Whatever it is that you did :)
04:12 cjh hi cait :)
04:12 cait hi all :)
04:13 mtompset does anyone remember where the multi-select branch limit is?
04:14 cjh dcook: :) just spotted a missing </script> tag
04:14 dcook Must be those keen 20s eyes
04:14 dcook Maybe I should enlist your help to figure out this virtualshelves issue :p
04:14 cjh hahaha
04:14 dcook It's...mind-boggling
04:14 wizzyrea probably he's brilliant.
04:15 dcook I must be blind or...something
04:15 wizzyrea ^ sounds familiar
04:15 dcook hehe
04:15 wizzyrea though i recall oleonard tying himself in knots working on virtualshelves.
04:15 dcook The code certainly has changed a lot between 3.8 and master. That's for sure...
04:15 dcook Really glad though. Very useful work!
04:15 dcook oleonard++
04:17 trea any idea why yaz-client would respond with "Database Unavailable" errors despite specifying the correct dbname from irspy?
04:17 wizzyrea user/pass?
04:17 trea[…]3A210%2Fbcls_koha
04:18 trea none specified
04:18 bag trea is that the right URL?
04:19 trea yeah it connects fine. it just doesn't return results
04:19 wizzyrea Don't forget to choose the database before running a query: base biblios
04:19 wizzyrea Regards,
04:19 wizzyrea Jared
04:19 wizzyrea ^ mailing list
04:19 trea yep, i base it using the dbname, and it doesn't throw an error
04:19 trea just says unavail when doing the search
04:19 trea unless having a db with an underscore in the name causes a problem
04:19 wizzyrea hum.
04:20 dcook trea: yep
04:20 dcook base biblios
04:20 dcook Pj
04:20 dcook Oh*
04:20 dcook Sorry, I should've read more
04:21 wizzyrea wait you base using the dbname?
04:21 dcook It should be base biblios
04:21 wizzyrea base biblios
04:21 dcook Not base <kohadatabasename>
04:21 wizzyrea or base bcls_koha
04:21 trea if i run
04:21 trea yaz-client
04:21 trea it's already based
04:21 cait hm trying to remember what I did last time
04:22 dcook I've used yaz quite a bit..
04:22 cait but i think lizis right, there might be something you have to do before you can actually start searching
04:22 dcook What's the rest of the error?
04:22 dcook It might relate to your query
04:22 dcook No, it's probably the basing..
04:22 wizzyrea your command gives me
04:22 pastebot "trea" at pasted "Z> f laser Sent searchRequest." (9 lines) at
04:23 trea doing it the way listed above has always worked correctly for me in the past
04:23 pastebot "wizzyrea" at pasted "Connecting...OK. Sent initrequ" (8 lines) at
04:25 dcook trea: What do you get when you do "list_all"?
04:25 pastebot "trea" at pasted "Z> list_all Connected to : tcp" (18 lines) at
04:26 dcook Interesting...
04:26 wahanui interesting is sometimes good and sometimes bad
04:26 dcook Looks good
04:27 trea oh, that's set based on the current "base" command
04:27 dcook You did base biblios and that's what you got?
04:27 trea right
04:27 dcook Can you try searching again?
04:28 wizzyrea that's a former they-who-shall-not-be-named customer eh?
04:28 trea oh, is it?
04:28 pastebot "trea" at pasted "Z> base biblios Z> f laser Sen" (11 lines) at
04:28 dcook Interesting
04:28 wahanui Interesting is probably sometimes good and sometimes bad
04:28 trea in this case, it's the former
04:29 trea or latter
04:29 wizzyrea it's gotta be something weird they did with the z db names
04:29 dcook yep
04:29 trea probably so. and i'm out of time. will have to pick it up again later o/
04:29 dcook Definitely
04:29 trea sorry to query and run
04:29 dcook np. Check their koha-conf.xml next time.
04:30 trea if i had that level of access, but alas
04:30 trea it's a remote target, that we don't admin
04:30 dcook first question?
04:30 wahanui "What are you trying to do?" or "What is the goal?"
04:31 dcook Sorry. I know you ran out of time.
04:31 wizzyrea probably use it as a target from another koha, if I had to guess
04:31 * dcook is just curious.
04:32 dcook I'm surprised that using the db "bcls_koha" gives an error with '' rather than 'bcls_koha'
04:33 dcook Unless maybe it's an authentication issue?
04:33 dcook I think that would present earlier though..
04:49 dcook trea: Just thinking...if it used to work for you...maybe it's an issue on their end (or the information you have available)? It looks like they're using Metaproxy rather than Zebra as their z39.50 server...
04:51 wizzyrea def @later him
04:51 dcook Yeah, I was just thinking that..
04:51 wizzyrea he's afk, but I will tell him to check :)
04:51 dcook lol
04:51 dcook No worries
04:51 dcook It's a weird situation. I can't even find that actual library system or Koha instance
04:52 dcook I think maybe it amalgamated with another..
04:53 wizzyrea looks like it's a NEKLS type
04:53 wizzyrea also, it may have been disbanded
04:53 wizzyrea now that I think about it
04:53 dcook NEKLS?
04:53 wahanui i think NEKLS is North East Kansas Library Service
04:53 wizzyrea forget nekls
04:53 wahanui wizzyrea: I forgot nekls
04:54 wizzyrea NEKLS is <reply> the fine folks at Northeast Kansas Library System
04:54 wizzyrea NEKLS?
04:54 wahanui the fine folks at Northeast Kansas Library System
04:56 dcook My curiosity is insatiable :S
04:56 wizzyrea yea I think they have gone away
04:57 wizzyrea -> not responding
04:57 dcook I think so too
04:57 dcook Yeah, I saw that
04:57 dcook[…]erLabsProject.pdf refers to libraries "formerly" served by them as well
04:57 wizzyrea texas had some pretty massive library cuts
04:57 wizzyrea they could have been a victim
04:57 wizzyrea you know who would know
04:57 wizzyrea druthb
04:57 wizzyrea ask her ;)
04:57 dcook Mmm, good call
04:58 dcook Didn't California have huge cuts too a while ago?
04:58 wizzyrea yea, and ohio
04:58 dcook There was some talk in Vancouver
04:58 dcook Which is a shame since it's a beautiful system in many ways (although not so much in others)
04:59 dcook I think "Big Country Library System" might still exist in name..
04:59 dcook But just as a loose affiliation
04:59 dcook Or maybe these are all just really out of date websites
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05:00 wizzyrea This page last modified on June 25, 2012.
05:00 wizzyrea for the site listing for bcls
05:00 wizzyrea so a year old
05:00 dcook That's the one I'm looking at now
05:00 wizzyrea which isn't thaaaaat long
05:00 dcook Someone should do a study of Google research speeds
05:01 dcook My curiosity is satisfied for now.
05:01 dcook Although that error message was still weird..
05:02 wizzyrea I think it has gone away
05:03 eythian It apparently last responded with a blank page in May.
05:03 wizzyrea http://www.librarytechnology.o[…]wc&RC=24240&Row=3
05:04 wizzyrea that is interesting
05:04 wizzyrea clicking through to their online catalogue sends you to
05:05 wizzyrea http://anspl.tlccat.bywatersol[…]it=branch%3AANSPL
05:06 wizzyrea lookit that list of libraries
05:06 wizzyrea that, peeps, is a library consortium - TLC
05:07 dcook Yeah, I noticed the click through took you to, but that Bywater seems to support some of the former libraries?
05:07 wizzyrea[…]tlc-koha-support/
05:07 wizzyrea ^ this just happened
05:08 dcook http://www.librarytechnology.o[…]
05:08 dcook Is that what you were linking to?
05:08 dcook "In 2013 the Big Country Library System and the Big Country Library System combined to form Texas Library Consortium Catalog or TLCcat. The consortium operates through a partnership between the Texas State Library and Archives Commission and e-Libris Technologies."
05:08 wizzyrea yep
05:08 wizzyrea they were absorbed
05:08 wizzyrea big country
05:08 wizzyrea so
05:08 wizzyrea that probably means their ztarget changed
05:09 wizzyrea which means we really need to know the problem that he's trying to solve
05:09 wizzyrea :P
05:09 dcook Yep, lol
05:09 dcook It sounds...sad
05:09 dcook But yay ByWater!
05:10 wizzyrea yea, that was pretty epic
05:10 wizzyrea a 42 library consortium in like 3 days
05:10 dcook O_O
05:10 wizzyrea from not-koha to koha
05:10 dcook Well, in NSW, the public library system wanted to put 2,000+ libraries up rather quickly
05:11 dcook I'm actually really interested to hear how that goes...
05:11 * wizzyrea too
05:11 wizzyrea well over like 3 years
05:12 dcook Ah, that's a lot slower than I originally was led to believe
05:12 dcook That seems more plausible
05:12 eythian wizzyrea: you're thinking of the schools one perhaps?
05:13 wizzyrea dcook was
05:13 wizzyrea :)
05:13 eythian ah right :)
05:13 wizzyrea i might have heard of that
05:13 dcook No one tells me nothin' :p
05:13 eythian (I assumed there was a public one I hadn't heard of :)
05:22 dcook gmcharlt++
05:22 dcook Good call on the renaming of system preferences...
05:28 dcook Oh so the day of bugs...
05:30 cait gmcharlt++ for being an awesome rm :)
05:44 dcook All the bugs..
05:44 dcook But fixing bugs...which is good...
06:03 dcook I think this training session has yielded the most bugs ever
06:03 dcook And by ever...I mean in my short experience recently
06:21 dcook Eeee...a student from my alma mater wants some help setting Koha up at a volunteer library :)
06:24 cjh awesome
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06:36 reiveune hello
06:36 wahanui hi, reiveune
06:41 dcook hey ya paul_p, reiveune
06:41 dcook cjh: Alas, I've suggested that Koha might not be the right solution for them
06:42 dcook While I have confidence in the current volunteers, it would be tough to make sure that current and future volunteers are all able to maintain and upgrade Koha
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06:43 christophe_c hello #koha
06:43 dcook salut alex_a, christophe_c
06:43 christophe_c hello dcook ;-)
06:44 alex_a salut dcook
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06:44 alex_a et salut christophe_c
06:44 drojf good morning #koha
06:44 christophe_c hi alex_a
06:44 alex_a good morning drojf
06:45 dcook Guten morgen, drojf :)
06:45 drojf hi alex_a and dcook
06:50 paul_p hello everyone !
06:50 bag heya paul_p
06:50 paul_p hi bag !
06:52 bag ok paul_p is in - that means it's way to late to be at the office - night everyone I'm heading home
06:53 dcook About time, bag!
06:53 dcook I'm about to head home and I'm on the other side of the world...
06:53 dcook ta bag
06:55 dcook If anyone wants an easy sign off... bug 10457
06:55 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10457 minor, P5 - low, ---, dcook, Needs Signoff , Export selected items data doesn't work when using checkall checkbox
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07:03 marcelr hi #koha
07:03 dcook hey ya marcelr
07:03 marcelr hi dcook
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07:06 mtompset Good day, everyone.
07:12 wizzyrea whaddup homies
07:12 marcelr mtompset left quite fast
07:13 marcelr dcook: your bug 10456 is more about cataloguing, i suppose
07:13 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10456 normal, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , z3950NormalizeAuthor and z3950AuthorAuthFields cause problems for MARC21 (and are sloppily written)
07:13 dcook marcelr: Sort of
07:14 dcook Except that it's irrelevant without z3950
07:14 dcook I think...
07:14 * dcook checks
07:14 dcook It's been a crazy day
07:15 dcook Yeah, that sub is only called if there is a breedingid
07:15 dcook Which should only be there if one is importing via z39.50
07:16 dcook But it looks like the unimarc-specific code is wrapped with the marcflavour preference in master (I was looking in 3.8. I thought I checked master, but I must have had my git branch wrong.)
07:18 marcelr choosing the component is sometimes very arbitrary
07:18 dcook true that :)
07:18 dcook Feel free to change it if you like
07:18 dcook I'm not really attached to the component
07:18 marcelr looks like you are abandoning it already
07:18 dcook Pretty much :/
07:19 dcook Besides wrapping it (which is already done), I suppose it would be an idea to add some checks for the variables...but I wonder why the code is necessary at all
07:19 dcook Do you use UNIMARC at all?
07:19 dcook I'm keen to chat to someone who can explain why that code is necessary :S
07:20 dcook That said, I actually have to run in a moment...
07:20 dcook Dumplings ^_^
07:21 dcook good night #koha
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08:37 gaetan_B hello
08:40 rangi hi gaetan_B
08:51 marcelr hi gaetan_B and rangi
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09:31 marcelr Joubu around?
09:32 marcelr Joubu: wouldn't it be easy to just replace LogLite with Log4Perl ?
09:35 Joubu marcelr: yes, maybe
09:36 marcelr could that not resolve the discussion?
09:36 marcelr if log4perl is syslog compliant, that is a plus
09:36 marcelr i would leave it in a module
09:38 Joubu marcelr: Yes I think we should have a module. log4perl is maybe a better solution but I never used it.
09:38 marcelr well could be worth a try now..
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12:04 samueld hi everybody :-)
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12:20 oleonard Hi #koha
12:24 * oleonard hopes to be around more than a half hour today, electricity willing.
12:27 nengard storms?
12:28 Oak pakistan?
12:35 NateC joined #koha
12:36 oleonard Someone stole copper wire from the substation
12:36 oleonard Took 9 hours to repair, for some reason.
12:37 jcamins oleonard: really? You read about that, but I didn't realize people actually did that.
12:38 oleonard The sheriff said on Facebook they were surprised they didn't find a charred body on the scene, given the kind of equipment they were messing with.
12:44 nengard yikes
12:46 oleonard The commenters on that Facebook post sounded like a lynch mob.
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13:02 tcohen morning #koh
13:02 tcohen a
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13:21 druthb o/
13:26 tcohen hi druthb
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13:30 tcohen oleonard?
13:30 wahanui i heard oleonard was still here, if you just wish hard enough. or Koha's master UI designer
13:30 oleonard Yes
13:30 tcohen what do u think of adding the autocomplete feature on placing a hold
13:30 tcohen ?
13:30 oleonard Patron autocomplete?
13:30 tcohen exactly
13:31 oleonard It's fine with me, but I would tie it to the circautocomplete system preference
13:31 tcohen you are right
13:32 marcelr have to go; bye all
13:35 huginn New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 6536] Z3950 Enhancements: SRU targets, MARC conversion, additional XSLT processing (umbrella report) <[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6536>
13:38 rambutan joined #koha
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13:38 druthb joined #koha
13:39 druthb well, this is…annoying.  The construction on the third floor is apparently *right above my office*.
13:40 jcamins druthb: yay! Day off!
13:41 druthb If I did not have a 12:30 meeting, I'd be grabbing the lappy and working from home.
13:47 oleonard Heh... Lappy.
13:54 maximep joined #koha
13:57 BigRig joined #koha
13:57 druthb :P
14:02 gmcharlt @quote random
14:02 huginn gmcharlt: Quote #146: "rangi: when I was at brendans house we went to the farmers market and bought lots of almonds which I had to eat on the plane, cos can't bringthem into nz, so I was offering ppl nuts on the plane. cait: makes sense rangi: if its sensible for a crazy nzer to be waving almonds in ur face at 3am, then yes" (added by wizzyrea at 08:03 PM, July 28, 2011)
14:08 druthb @quote random
14:08 huginn druthb: Quote #98: "drulm: TGIF=Thank Galen It's Friday" (added by wizzyrea at 07:15 PM, October 08, 2010)
14:09 gmcharlt too soon!
14:09 druthb Indeed.
14:09 drnoe left #koha
14:09 drnoe joined #koha
14:09 libsysguy premature friday alert
14:09 * druthb thanks Galen that it's Thursday, though.
14:10 druthb hey, libsysguy—are the banging and paint fumes intense for you guys up on 5?
14:10 libsysguy we can hear some banging if we turn down the heavy metal
14:10 libsysguy but we are fume free
14:10 druthb duuuude.
14:10 druthb They are *right above* my office.
14:11 libsysguy email david
14:11 libsysguy :p
14:11 druthb If I didn't have a 12:30 meeting, I'd be out of here.  It's freaking *intense* down here.
14:12 jcamins druthb: ask if you can use a different office?
14:12 jcamins Or reschedule the meeting?
14:12 libsysguy David was talking about it last night. Were you in on that convo?
14:12 libsysguy I bet Dean and Draper is pissed
14:13 jcamins You cPanelians have the weirdest IRC nicks. "dean_and_draper"?
14:14 druthb libsysguy:  no, I wasn't in on that.
14:14 druthb Yeah, the Dean and Draper folks are probably not happy right now.
14:15 libsysguy druthb David said D&D were mega complaining
14:15 libsysguy if we can hear it on 5 I know they are getting it hard
14:15 libsysguy heh dean_and_draper
14:15 druthb jcamins: I may shift to a different space shortly—the learning room, maybe.  The meeting is kind of immovable, since there's a bunch of folks in on it.
14:15 libsysguy anybody remember when I was library_systems_guy
14:15 druthb me!
14:16 libsysguy first nengard didn't want to type library_systems_guy so I shortened it to libsysguy, then khall wanted it to be lsg :p
14:16 nengard heh
14:17 druthb "li<tab>"…  how hard can it be?
14:17 khall it's more efficient!
14:17 * khall should switch to kmh
14:18 jcamins libsysguy: the problem is that you're not the only one with li<tab>.
14:18 jcamins khall: why? You're the only one with kh<tab>
14:19 khall but is *two* characters shorter! That's like a 40% increase in efficiency, right?
14:19 khall ; )
14:20 talljoy joined #koha
14:20 jcamins khall: actually, you're the only one with k<tab>
14:20 khall yeah, I just discovered that from your previous comment. Never knew about it!
14:21 jcamins Alas, I am the only one with jc, but one of many with j.
14:21 * jcamins should've chosen zjcamins as a nick.
14:21 khall it reminds me of when I showed a friend you could open a browser link with a middle click, he literally freaked out!
14:21 khall lol
14:21 libsysguy oh my
14:22 khall you'd think I'd demonstrated a super power or something
14:22 jcamins oleonard: any suggestions on making these buttons fit in to the page and general Koha styling better?
14:24 oleonard Hmm...
14:25 libsysguy add a pull-right class to add contact button
14:25 libsysguy imo
14:25 oleonard My instinct is to say that the contact details for each contact should be in their own fieldset inside a grouping fieldset
14:25 jcamins I was thinking of a pull-right on the Delete contact, and possibly putting it up at the top of the fieldset as well.
14:26 oleonard Within each individual fieldset is the delete button
14:27 oleonard Also, use 'icon-remove' for delete
14:28 oleonard Why put buttons on the right?
14:28 jcamins oleonard: I was thinking of putting the button in the top right so that it used less vertical space.
14:29 jcamins I disagree with libsysguy about moving the Add contact button.
14:29 jcamins Unless, of course, you decide you agree with him, in which case I think it's a great idea.
14:29 oleonard :)
14:29 libsysguy jcamins opinions have noted and marked as incorrect :p
14:29 oleonard I think I could go either way on the delete button but think the add button should stay left-aligned.
14:30 libsysguy less_vert_space++
14:30 oleonard On a long form like this I don't think vertical space is such a big deal. No way to avoid scrolling no matter what.
14:31 jcamins True.
14:31 libsysguy[…]ipt.html#collapse
14:31 jcamins I think I prefer the button on the left.
14:31 jcamins I just tried it on the right, and it doesn't really work.
14:31 jcamins libsysguy: yeah, I considered that.
14:32 oleonard We have the jQueryUI version already included in the staff client.
14:32 jcamins I'm not 100% sold on using a collapse control, though.
14:32 oleonard Yeah for an entry form I don't think it's appropriate. Better for display.
14:33 libsysguy forms in general have their own special set of rules
14:41 huginn New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 8662 - Remove unused famfamfam icons <[…]13b9a4e10f39b162f>
14:42 oleonard That was a tough patch to get in.
14:44 gaetan_B bye !
14:58 jcamins oleonard: does the for attribute always have to refer to an id?
14:58 oleonard Yes
14:59 pianohacker joined #koha
14:59 jcamins Figures.
14:59 wahanui I like *your* figure
14:59 pianohacker good morning
14:59 jcamins wahanui: why thank you.
14:59 wahanui de nada jcamins
15:02 jcamins oleonard: is wrapping controls in the label tag something that we are actively trying to avoid in Koha, or something that we just happen to not do?
15:09 jcamins Ah... that messes up the layout.
15:10 mcooper joined #koha
15:12 oleonard Which controls?
15:12 jcamins Text <input>s.
15:13 jcamins I'll just generate IDs.
15:19 cait joined #koha
15:20 * cait waves
15:21 libsysguy o/
15:21 * druthb wriggles happily
15:27 cait :)
15:28 NateC joined #koha
15:29 reiveune bye
15:29 reiveune left #koha
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16:22 oleonard gmcharlt++ # No FIXMEs
16:24 oleonard So. Many. FIXMEs.
16:25 * gmcharlt hands oleonard a paper bag to breath into
16:27 * gmcharlt will push patches with TODOs, but is not inclined to push patches that introduce new FIXMEs unless absolutely necessary
16:33 oleonard "TODO: Make this not broken."
16:34 jcamins oleonard: I've seen a few of those.
16:40 gmcharlt heh; yeah, I'll be using more than just grep to evaluate those
16:51 drnoe joined #koha
16:56 tcohen oleonard: do we really need to provide a render function for the autocomplete? isn't the fact that retrieves a JSON enough for rendering?
16:56 tcohen i'm not used to the autocomplete jquery plugin, just asking for learning purposes
16:57 oleonard I don't remember offhand tcohen, you'd have to give it a try.
16:57 oleonard I re-learn jqueryui autocomplete every time I do it again.
17:03 laurence left #koha
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17:05 * cait waves again
17:05 drnoe joined #koha
17:06 tcohen hi cait
17:12 cait hi tcohen
17:13 sophie_m joined #koha
17:13 tcohen i don't have cookies for you, but how about patron autocomplete for placing holds?
17:14 cait hmmmmm i can imagine that tastes yum? )
17:18 drojf joined #koha
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17:27 magnuse jcamins around?
17:30 jcamins I am.
17:30 magnuse ah
17:30 magnuse good evening, sir
17:30 magnuse i'm looking at bug 10240
17:30 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10240 new feature, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, Needs Signoff , Offline circulation using HTML5 and IndexedDB
17:30 jcamins Yay!
17:31 magnuse do you know if it is supposed to work when koha runs on localhost?
17:31 magnuse or does it have to be over the network to work?
17:31 jcamins ...
17:31 jcamins that is a good question.
17:31 jcamins I suspect it would not work on localhost.
17:31 magnuse i have vague feeling i have read something about local storage not working for localhost, but i'm not sure
17:32 jcamins Yeah, I read something about that as well, but I don't remember exactly where.
17:32 * magnuse is on a train
17:33 jcamins Which browser are you using?
17:33 tcohen bug 10464
17:33 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10464 minor, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , Patron search on placing a hold doesn't use jqueryui.autocomplete
17:33 jcamins It looks like possibly it doesn't work under Firefox, but might under Chrome.
17:34 magnuse jcamins: firefox
17:34 magnuse ah, i'll try that then
17:34 jcamins Are you getting any sort of error?
17:34 jcamins If you are I can try to add some handling for the error, at least.
17:36 magnuse no, i turn off apache and then when i try to access i just get server not found
17:36 mtompset joined #koha
17:36 magnuse like the offline html5 stuff is not working at all
17:36 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
17:36 mtompset Greetings, magnuse. :)
17:37 magnuse hiya mtompset
17:37 tcohen hi mtompset
17:37 mtompset Greetings, tcohen.
17:39 magnuse jcamins: nope, same thing with chromium
17:40 * magnuse has to get off the train now, see y'all later!
17:55 drojf fun fact: localstorage does not work if you have your cookie settings set to "ask every time". probably not magnuses problem, but i spent quite some time figuring that out
17:56 jcamins drojf: yeah, I had the same problem.
17:57 mtompset Greetings, drojf jcamins.
17:57 drojf hi mtompset
17:58 drojf up to 38°C in the coming days. time to switch from "it's way too cold for summer" to "omg it's way too hot"
17:59 mtompset That be true.
18:01 cait joined #koha
18:01 mtompset Ooooo.... I think I have an idea to deal with my critical section problem.
18:01 mtompset And it won't deadlock and should work.
18:03 * druthb gets the duct tape, and tapes cait to her chair
18:03 mtompset Creating a table to serialize (autoincrement, ID, value)... the process that needs a value generates a random string for an ID and does an insert into the table, but leaves value blank. It then calculates all the missing values, and grabs the last one for its own ID.
18:04 mtompset values don't duplicate because everything is serialized, and the processes won't deadlock, because even if two processes calculate a value for autoincrement value X, it should be the same value.
18:04 cait not sure that will work
18:04 cait we are going through all those tunnels soon
18:05 mtompset virtual duct tape isn't as good as the real thing. :P
18:05 drojf jcamins: did you get the DRUCK_ORT question from the new wiki page about old prints (in german) or is that a strange coincidence?
18:05 mtompset Greetings, druthb cait. :)
18:05 jcamins drojf: fromt he wiki page.
18:05 cait hm wonder if ids does it like we do
18:05 jcamins mtompset: that sounds like what gmcharlt suggested, but are you sure you wouldn't be better off using a non-autogenerated cardnumber as a way to actually move forward with your development?
18:05 druthb hi, mtompset.
18:06 drojf hi cait
18:06 cait hi drojf
18:06 drojf and hi druthb
18:06 jcamins *from the
18:06 druthb hi, drojf! :)
18:07 mtompset yes, very similar to what gmcharlt suggested. His link got me thinking that way.
18:08 mtompset Well, actually, do we need a cardnumber is a question that has been on my mind too.
18:08 bigbrovar joined #koha
18:08 jcamins Or you could even not have a cardnumber, yes.
18:09 oleonard tcohen: Your holds autocomplete works well, but once you've selected a patron and the page redirects there is a javascript error
18:09 mtompset Does that cause things to break in Koha elsewhere, though?
18:09 oleonard tcohen: I think you need to wrap that JS in [% UNLESS ( borrowernumber ) %]
18:09 tcohen i'll check it oleonard, thanks for the feedback
18:09 tcohen oh
18:11 jcamins mtompset: only things that require cardnumbers.
18:11 tcohen where did y find the error oleonard ?
18:12 oleonard tcohen: It appears in the Firebug console after you have selected one of the autocompleted items and the page redirects
18:14 tcohen it appears on current master i guess
18:14 tcohen not sure is related to the patch itself
18:15 cait oleonard: during the trianing we noticed a couple of things in intranet not working with ie
18:16 cait should we file those? i forgot to get the ie version number in the training room
18:16 cait if i can figure out the version of ie - how far back do we care?
18:17 oleonard We don't technically support IE at all in the intranet, but I do my best to fix stuff I can.
18:17 oleonard I probably wouldn't bother if it was only in IE7 or below
18:18 oleonard tcohen: The error does not happen in master
18:19 tcohen hmm, maybe some cache is hiding it from me
18:20 cait oleonard: ok :)
18:20 cait the problems were in acq and serials mostly
18:20 oleonard cait: JavaScript-related?
18:20 cait yeah
18:20 cait but not the drag and drop
18:21 cait one thing was that you couldn't order multiple items when ordering, because the item form didn't come back after clicking add for the first time
18:21 cait that was particuluarly annoying
18:21 cait but as i am not sure which verion that was, i will check that first
18:21 cait ie version i mean
18:22 oleonard Ugh, that page always sends me running away in fear.
18:22 cait understandable
18:28 tcohen i resent the patch
18:29 tcohen i fixed some koha-qa errors too oleonard
18:48 pianohacker hurr, id != class
18:49 pianohacker That's a new one... does anyone else also occasionally write id="#something" in their HTML?
18:49 jcamins pianohacker: only by accident.
18:49 pianohacker I'd hate to think you were doing it intentionally :)
18:49 mtompset YUCK! Why would you put a hash in front of your id?!
18:50 * tcohen goes check his latest patch *just in case*
18:50 oleonard Many are now recommending that people use 'class="#something"' and not use ids for styling at all.
18:50 jcamins mtompset: because you've been writing hundreds of lines of Javascript.
18:50 jcamins oleonard: really? Why?
18:51 oleonard 1. They think using ids for styling is bad. 2. They think 'class="#something"' conveys the same sense of importance others use an id to express.
18:51 druthb Roast beef hash is the best kind...
18:52 mtompset I could be wrong, but don't id's give you a kind of granularity to the styling?
18:52 druthb Good for breakfast, on toast, with a fried egg on top.
18:52 jcamins mtompset: so do classes if they are unique.
18:53 mtompset But creating that many classes seems overkill. Classes make for nice groupings of ids. Hence my granularity thought.
18:54 mtompset However, I'm no styling expert, so I would rather trust oleonard's opinion. :)
18:55 oleonard I'm not convinced, so I'm not telling anyone to do it any particular way.
18:55 * oleonard won't be using 'class="#something"' any time soon
18:55 cait it doesn't make sense to me
18:55 cait why would ids be bad?
18:55 cait and if you do that.. no validator is going to tell you that you have used your intentionally unique id on more than one element on the page
18:58 oleonard cait: Those who argue for that method are not saying you shouldn't use ids in HTML and with JavaScript, just not as a hook for CSS
18:58 * oleonard is trying to find the argument he read
18:58 cait aah
18:58 cait ook
18:58 cait the train has to go slower because of a weather warning :(
18:58 * cait is not amused
19:00 nengard left #koha
19:01 oleonard Not the one I was thinking of, but:
19:01 * oleonard hates remembering reading a link from Twitter and not being able to find it again
19:04 oleonard[…]ain-in-the-class/
19:04 oleonard[…]d-classes-in-css/
19:06 pianohacker ...
19:07 pianohacker I... feel like he's inventing problems
19:08 jcamins pianohacker: I've seen the problem he describes in legacy code.
19:08 pianohacker jcamins: how so?
19:08 pianohacker Because while I'm no battle-hardened web expert, the lack of reusability, js/css coupling and specificity fighting have never been huge issues
19:09 oleonard Yeah, I wonder if the specificity conflicts are a problem with different kinds of projects? I dunno.
19:09 jcamins Where an ID selector from way up overrides the class selector, and the developer worked around it by adding !important instead of fixing the underlying problem, which is that div#content is a rather vague selector, really.
19:10 jcamins I think the site I was shaking my head over that had that problem used Joomla.
19:10 oleonard Well, .... Joomla. :P
19:11 jcamins oleonard: that's why I said there was a problem with legacy code.
19:11 jcamins If you look up "legacy" in an online dictionary, it says "see Joomla."
19:12 cait does someoen remember what joomla was called before it was joomla?
19:12 cait m..
19:12 cait hm.
19:13 jcamins Mambo.
19:13 cait oh right thx
19:13 cait hm it sounds weird reading it
19:15 tcohen joined #koha
19:15 * druthb dances a lil mambo.
19:16 drojf that's what you get from smoking roast beef hash
19:17 pianohacker #koha is all kinds of good drugs today
19:18 cait heh
19:30 cait left #koha
19:30 mtompset jcamins: !important?! I encountered that issue with Koha. :P
19:33 oleonard Urgh, the logic with which to tell if an "action" link will appear in OPAC search results is really convoluted...
19:34 oleonard ...but I don't want to show an empty "actions" label no options are enabled
19:34 oleonard Uh... "if" no options are enabled...
19:37 oleonard Hm, it would certainly simplify things if "SEARCH_RESULT.norequests" were true for available items if AllowOnShelfHolds is off...
19:38 oleonard I have 9 minutes to discover how hard that would be before leaving for a week of vacation.
19:39 libsysguy Random: \o/   ^o^   o[    /o\
19:41 mtompset oleonard: Yes, yes it is. God be with you. :)
19:42 mtompset libsysguy: What is o[? Don't you mean o<? :P
19:42 libsysguy oh yes, I did mean that
19:42 libsysguy I was trying to get some elbow action in there with trex arms
19:43 oleonard Quick trip into right before quitting time? Never a good idea.
19:43 libsysguy what is it druthb says, is so dense not even good search results can escape
19:45 mtompset oleonard: Good Lord! Say you didn't do that. Say you didn't enter the labyrinth.
19:45 rangi the queryparser that jcamins did is a zillion times better
19:45 * druthb never said that!
19:46 libsysguy oh thats right, just washington DC
19:46 libsysguy :p
19:46 druthb Right.
19:46 libsysguy bah, traffic is already bad....wwwwwhhhyyyyyy
19:47 mtompset Because. :P
19:53 * druthb blinks…  now I've heard everything.  Scott Joplin's "Pine Apple Rag"…on handbells.
19:53 mtompset Have a great day (24 hour period), everyone.
20:03 kathryn joined #koha
20:49 Brooke joined #koha
20:49 Brooke o/
21:12 bag heya Brooke
21:13 tcohen joined #koha
21:18 Brooke how's it shakin on the left siiiiiide?
21:19 cait joined #koha
21:19 Brooke its' Cait!
21:20 * Brooke hands cait an Akoma Chocolate Chip Cookie
21:20 cait hi Brooke and thx
21:20 cait just got home, cookies welcome
21:26 drnoe joined #koha
21:26 Brooke wow, you were out late
21:26 Brooke unless you're in the states, in which case WHERE!?
21:28 cait lol no
21:28 cait travelling for work
21:28 cait for started on monday, came back tonight
21:28 talljoy joined #koha
21:32 Brooke oh wow
21:32 Brooke hope it was fun
21:32 Brooke I gots to go though
21:49 drnoe joined #koha
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22:04 mtompset joined #koha
22:04 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
22:04 drnoe joined #koha
22:04 mtompset Now I'm on my desktop computer... let's get coding. :)
22:24 drnoe joined #koha
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23:18 drnoe joined #koha
23:28 dcook joined #koha
23:29 pianohacker bye
23:30 sijobl joined #koha
23:38 drnoe joined #koha
23:49 mtompset Is there a nice way to silence errors and determine there was one?
23:50 rangi[…]2/lib/Try/
23:51 mtompset I'm trying that, but it isn't working.
23:51 rangi you arent confusing warns with errors again?
23:52 mtompset perhaps.
23:52 mtompset I don't want output.
23:52 mtompset I know there will be messages like "db doesn't exist' or "db already exists".
23:53 mtompset I want to handle them myself.
23:54 mtompset DBD::mysql::st execute failed: Table 'kohadata.TRYMEOUT2' doesn't exist at ./ line 21.
23:55 eythian the DBD docs tell you about that I think
23:55 eythian or DBI rather
23:57 mtompset Ah... RaiseError in the connect statement.
23:57 jcamins rangi:[…]bal.git;a=summary
23:58 rangi awesome

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