IRC log for #koha, 2013-06-11

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:01 dcook I totally never noticed the "browser", "collections", or "collections_tracking" tables before...
00:02 jcamins What are they?
00:02 wahanui they are quite expensive at the moment. i should check that with electricity prices :)
00:02 dcook Or "export_format"
00:02 dcook jcamins: No idea
00:02 dcook I assume browser might have something to do with the shelf_browser?
00:03 dcook I see a reference to
00:03 dcook I figured that might be the case...but not sure that's even a thing anymore
00:03 dcook That might've been an experiment or a lost function?
00:04 jcamins Oh, yeah, broken I think.
00:07 dcook Looks like export_format is for the CSV profiles...
00:09 dcook Apparently there is a "nozebra" table..
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00:26 gmcharlt dcook: that can *very* safely be ignored ;)
00:26 dcook gmcharlt: I was thinking that was the case, as I seem to remember folks talking about removing the Nozebra syspref completely as well. Time to nuke the table?
00:27 gmcharlt most likely, yes
00:31 dcook Hmm. Cool.
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02:12 eythian hi
02:20 mtj heya eythian
02:20 wahanui eythian is, like, an expert bot trainer
02:46 mtj any wtgn peeps planning to hang-about for the perlmongers later tonite?
02:49 eythian I don't know if I will, probably not.
02:56 mtj gotcha :) ^^
03:40 dcook mtj: What's the status of bug 5858?
03:40 dcook Are you waiting for a sign off to your follow up?
03:40 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5858 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, bgkriegel, Needs Signoff , Update default MARC21 framework to Update No. 16 (April 2013)
03:42 mtj hey big.d
03:42 mtj hmm, yeah, thats it
03:43 dcook Cool. I'll take a look right now.
03:43 dcook Thanks again for the z39.50 auth search sign off :). Glad to have another set of eyes on that one.
03:43 mtj updated bug with that info ^^
03:44 mtj np, it worked well :)
03:44 dcook :)
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03:58 dcook[…]on#Known_problems
03:58 cait joined #koha
03:58 dcook For a moment, I thought that was in reference to your terminal suddenly switching to French
03:58 * dcook glowers at his internet connection and/or git bz and/or python
03:58 dcook hey cait
03:58 dcook and possibly wizzyrea
03:59 trea` joined #koha
03:59 wizzyrea audi-whattie?
03:59 cait hi dcook and wizzyrea
03:59 wizzyrea good morning cait :)
03:59 wizzyrea why are we glowering at me?
03:59 dcook Wha?
04:00 dcook I meant to direct my hey to you as well
04:00 dcook Not the glower :)
04:02 wizzyrea oh
04:02 wizzyrea cool :)
04:11 dcook git bz is waiting for something...but I don't quite get what..
04:12 wizzyrea ?
04:13 dcook My git bz won't download some patches for some reason
04:13 wizzyrea has anyone ever seen a situation where the due dates for a specific borrower are 0000-00-00 00:00:00
04:13 * wizzyrea finds this problem quite mad
04:13 dcook Can't say that I have..
04:14 wizzyrea it seems like that shouldn't transpire. ever.
04:14 dcook Although if a person gave Mysql something it didn't like, it would default to that
04:14 dcook Maybe...or maybe that's 1970..
04:14 wizzyrea hm it would be easy to do that with the "set explicit due date"
04:14 * wizzyrea tests it
04:14 wizzyrea good idea thanks!
04:17 dcook Yeah, if I give it a crazy date, it goes to 0000-00-00 00:00:00
04:17 * dcook glowers more at git bz and then moves on
04:20 * cait wonders what poor git bz has done
04:20 wizzyrea dcook maybe you cleared your cookies?
04:20 wizzyrea for bugzilla?
04:21 * wizzyrea comes up with something nonsensical
04:21 dcook Nah, it's working for bugs that have one small patch
04:21 cait are the patches properly marked in bugzilla as patches?
04:21 dcook But waiting forever for a bug that has two patches of slightly more than small size
04:21 dcook I think so?
04:22 Oak joined #koha
04:22 * Oak waves
04:22 dcook Yep, they are both patches
04:22 * dcook waves to Oak
04:22 cait and what#s the command you use?
04:23 dcook git bz apply
04:23 dcook I'm thinking it's either the internet connection or the ssh server
04:24 eythian git bz doesn't use ssh.
04:24 dcook No, but I do :p
04:24 dcook But that wouldn't make sense in this case either...
04:24 dcook Well, maybe it does, I don't know
04:25 dcook I assume other people can apply bug 5858?
04:25 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5858 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, bgkriegel, Needs Signoff , Update default MARC21 framework to Update No. 16 (April 2013)
04:25 cait can't test right now
04:25 mtj dcook, i can ok
04:26 dcook Hmm, I thought so :/
04:26 dcook Probably the internet connection. Sometimes I've had it take forever to try to download a patch that's more than a few KB
04:27 eythian that sounds like an issue with MTU discovery
04:27 mtj fwiw, git-bz is alway snappy for me
04:29 wizzyrea me too
04:30 dcook I think I always have some lag, even with small patches
04:30 mtj dcook, curious… is downloading the patch via a manual wget, any faster?
04:30 mtj $ time wget[…]ment.cgi?id=18584
04:32 dcook real    0m7.619s
04:32 dcook user    0m0.032s
04:32 dcook sys     0m0.064s
04:32 mtj meh, acceptable...
04:34 dcook :/
04:35 dcook Right before it prompts with the option of applying (Y/N), it gets stuck waiting wait4(PID,
04:38 mtj hmm, pass.. :/
04:38 dcook hehe
04:39 mtj you are using a recent-ish version of git-bz, and python?
04:39 dcook I think so
04:39 dcook eythian is probably on track but not really sure what to do about that
04:40 eythian drop your MTU to 1000, see if it helps.
04:41 dcook I don't think I have access for that :/
04:42 eythian you just need root on your machine.
04:42 dcook Yep, don't have that :(
04:42 eythian ah, that'll be a problem then
04:42 dcook I have been meaning to set up a separate VM for development though...
04:45 dcook Hmm, and now I can't even download virtualbox...
04:45 eythian maybe you just have no internet
04:45 wizzyrea dcook++ it was the renewal datepicker
04:45 wizzyrea (I think)
04:46 wizzyrea or they fat-fingered the renewal date
04:46 dcook The latter was my hopeful guess
04:46 wizzyrea either way "Although if a person gave Mysql something it didn't like, it would default to that" pointed me in the right direction :)
04:47 * eythian hates on mysql for that stupid behaviour.
04:47 eythian if you don't understand it, you don't just make something up.
04:48 wizzyrea "Grenades! Grenades for everyone!"
04:48 wizzyrea -strax
04:49 cjh sorry what is that behavior?
04:49 eythian give mysql 2013-13-99 and it's likely to stick something like 0000-02-00 or whatever in there.
04:50 cjh heh
04:50 wizzyrea I"m not even sure where it got the 02 from
04:50 wizzyrea there was no 02 in the data >.<
04:50 wizzyrea stupid mysql.
04:50 cjh well 13 gives 3 - 1 = 02, simple >.>
04:50 cait wizzyrea: i have seen that happening for invalid dates in serials
04:50 * wizzyrea blinks
04:51 cait not sure why it does happen tho :(
04:51 eythian nah, it's always 02
04:51 eythian I don't know why
04:51 wizzyrea mark the date.
04:51 wizzyrea properly, so mysql doesn't puke
04:51 wizzyrea :)
04:51 * wizzyrea expects eythian will have the answer to that tomorrow
04:51 * eythian doesn't want to know
04:52 wizzyrea hehehehe
04:53 wizzyrea giving mysql an invalidly formatted date is <reply>[…]rukjygo1_1280.jpg
04:54 dcook 0000-02-00?
04:54 wahanui -2
04:54 dcook That's a special branch of special
04:54 dcook Can't say I've seen that yet
04:54 dcook 1970-01-00 or something like that I have seen...
04:54 eythian in mysql, 0000 or 00 for a date part means "don't care"
04:54 dcook wizzyrea: hehe
04:54 eythian I still don't know where the 02 comes from though
04:55 wizzyrea the result was Checked out to <patron>, Last renewed 24/05/2013, Due back on 02/00/0
04:55 wizzyrea and a very excruciatingly irritating error on issue
04:58 wizzyrea possibly this is a better description of what mysql does in that situation:[…]x250/37618858.jpg
05:00 dcook mysql said 0000-00-00 or 0000-02-00?
05:00 wizzyrea mysql said 0000-00-00 00:00:00, koha said 0000-02-00
05:00 * cait has to boot into windows - ew.
05:00 dcook Interesting..
05:00 wahanui hmmm... interesting is sometimes good and sometimes bad
05:00 wizzyrea when it wasn't exploding with grenades
05:03 dcook Grenades!
05:03 dcook It does make you wonder where that 02 comes from..
05:03 * dcook tries to remember what he was thinking about before grenades
05:04 * dcook also thought that one of the bugs in bugzilla was assigned to Jim Jarmusch
05:04 dcook Definitely belated monday today..
05:13 mtj git-bz :)
05:14 dcook :(
05:15 mtj dcook, my mtu is 1500, fwiw
05:15 mtj # ifconfig |grep en0
05:15 mtj en0: flags=8863<UP,BROADCAST,SMAR​T,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST> mtu 1500
05:16 eythian 1500 is ethernet MTU
05:16 mtj ok
05:17 mtj dcook, is your mtu 1500, too?
05:17 dcook Well, I don't have en0, but yep, mtu is 1500
05:17 mtj ah, you recommend dropping to 1000 eythian..
05:17 dcook Except for loopback
05:18 mtj meh, ok..
05:18 eythian yes, if it's an MTU path discovery issue, that tests it.
05:18 eythian quite possible someone has some broken firewalling somewhere.
05:25 * dcook is intrigued
05:26 Topic for #koha is now[…]location=timeline
05:26 mtj oops...
05:27 mtj hmm, now what was the previous topic :/
05:28 Topic for #koha is now Welcome to Koha...
05:29 mtj i'm quite surprised to find the channel's topic changable!
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05:29 AmitG hi
05:29 AmitG Srdjan Jankovic around?
05:31 AmitG @bug10209
05:31 huginn AmitG: I'll give you the answer as soon as RDA is ready
05:31 Topic for #koha is now Welcome to #koha this channel is for discussion of the Koha project and software
05:32 mtj hi AmitG, Srdjan -> papa
05:32 mtj bug 10209
05:32 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10209 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, amit.gupta, Needs Signoff , The ability to order multiple copies of the same item, from different fund classes, on the same order number
05:32 papa yes
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05:36 AmitG Papa around?
05:36 AmitG heya mtj
05:36 papa sure always :)
05:37 AmitG papa: i have recreate the patch can you look..
05:37 Topic for #koha is now Welcome to #koha -- this channel is for discussion of the Koha project and software Next general meeting is 10 July 2013 at 10:00 UTC
05:37 * mtj waves to AmitG and papa
05:40 AmitG @wunder Bangalore
05:40 huginn AmitG: The current temperature in Bangalore, India is 22.0°C (8:30 AM IST on June 11, 2013). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 77%. Dew Point: 19.0°C.
05:41 AmitG @wunder Delhi
05:41 huginn AmitG: Error: No such location could be found.
05:41 AmitG @wunder Dehli
05:41 huginn AmitG: Error: No such location could be found.
05:41 AmitG @wunder Mumbao
05:41 huginn AmitG: Error: No such location could be found.
05:41 AmitG @wunder Mumbai
05:41 huginn AmitG: The current temperature in Mumbai, India is 30.0°C (10:40 AM IST on June 11, 2013). Conditions: Haze. Humidity: 84%. Dew Point: 27.0°C. Pressure: 29.62 in 1003 hPa (Steady).
05:41 AmitG @wunder  Delhi India
05:41 huginn AmitG: Error: No such location could be found.
05:41 AmitG @wunder  Dehradun
05:41 huginn AmitG: The current temperature in Dehradun, India is 24.0°C (8:30 AM IST on June 11, 2013). Conditions: Light Rain. Humidity: 95%. Dew Point: 23.0°C. Pressure: 29.56 in 1001 hPa.
05:47 * magnuse waves
05:47 magnuse @wunder boo
05:47 huginn magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 8.0°C (7:20 AM CEST on June 11, 2013). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 81%. Dew Point: 5.0°C. Windchill: 6.0°C. Pressure: 29.95 in 1014 hPa (Steady).
05:49 eythian @wunder nzwn
05:49 huginn eythian: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 14.0°C (5:00 PM NZST on June 11, 2013). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 94%. Dew Point: 13.0°C. Pressure: 29.98 in 1015 hPa (Steady).
05:50 gmcharlt @quote random
05:50 huginn gmcharlt: Quote #2: "<jwagner> Hope springs eternal in little kitty hearts. Better watch the doors :-)" (added by gmcharlt at 04:04 PM, June 03, 2009)
05:50 gmcharlt g'night
05:58 magnuse sleep tight gmcharlt :-)
06:00 AmitG heya magnuse
06:01 magnuse hi AmitG
06:05 dcook "emailLibrarianWhenHoldIsPlaced" is a weird syspref
06:06 dcook It sends an email either to the KohaAdminEmail or to the email address of the library of the user that places the hold
06:06 dcook But it should send an email to the library that holds the item
06:06 dcook But that's only possible if the hold is for a specific item
06:07 dcook In the case where it's "next available", there's no way to send an email until the moment when a library staff member is presented with the screen "Hey, you should transfer this book because it's on hold"
06:07 dcook Which makes the whole syspref kind of backwards O_o
06:14 dcook On the plus side, finally was able to reproduce a different bug ^_^
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06:23 drojf good morning #koha
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06:30 christophe_c hello #koha
06:35 reiveune joined #koha
06:36 reiveune hello
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06:48 * cait-m waves
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06:53 drojf hi cait-m
06:53 drojf cait-m: teaching?
06:53 cait-m hi drojf
06:53 cait-m soon, but not yet
06:54 drojf i guess training is the right word in english ;)
06:54 cait-m wish me luck?  :-)
06:54 drojf oh you are startung today? i thought you did it already yesterday
06:54 drojf *starting
06:55 drojf good luck :)
06:55 cait-m just travelling yesterday
06:56 cait-m bye  :-)
06:56 drojf i see. have fun :)
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07:00 asaurat hi
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07:50 magnuse @later tell jcamins: could/should the " Work-in-progress patch for:" patch on bug 10240 be obsoleted?
07:50 huginn magnuse: The operation succeeded.
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08:01 magnuse @later tell gmcharlt: thanks for the heads up on bug 10218, i have added it to my todo list
08:01 huginn magnuse: The operation succeeded.
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08:29 gaetan_B hello
08:29 wahanui what's up, gaetan_B
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11:08 drojf hello again ;)
11:09 magnuse moin drojf
11:09 drojf hei magnuse
11:11 drojf brb
11:12 drojf joined #koha
11:12 drojf why would the font in pidgin suddenly change without me doing anything? :(
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11:22 jwagner morning
11:33 magnuse g'day jwagner
11:33 magnuse drojf: because it can?
11:33 jcamins magnuse: it could and has been.
11:36 magnuse jcamins: yay. i hope i can find some time to look at it, if no one beats me to it (feel free, folks!)
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11:56 drojf magnuse: but why can it? :/
11:58 magnuse drojf: to keep you entertained ;-)
11:58 drojf :(
11:58 jcamins drojf: it dares do all that may become an IM program. Who dares more is none.
11:59 gaetan_B joined #koha
11:59 drojf lol
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12:09 tcohen morrrning
12:09 tcohen #koha
12:09 drojf hi tcohen
12:09 * tcohen is kinda lazzzzy today
12:10 drojf tcohen: i thought that was my job
12:10 tcohen heh
12:10 tcohen latam filial maybe?
12:11 tcohen s/filial/subsidiary/
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12:12 jcamins I am using more than half of the 1TB external hard drive I bought a month ago.
12:14 jcamins That's kind of extraordinary.
12:15 drojf i thought the nsa saves all your stuff now? :P
12:15 jcamins Sure, but they're a bear when it comes to retrieval.
12:17 drojf lol
12:17 drojf i bet they use MARC for all that metadata ^^
12:17 jcamins That'd explain the latency.
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12:34 oleonard Hello #koha
12:34 drojf is there a reason why &SimpleSearch is exported twice from
12:34 drojf hi oleonard
12:34 jcamins drojf: it's twice as important as anything else in C4::Search.
12:34 jcamins (no)
12:34 drojf :D
12:35 drojf but we better keep it for backwards compatibility :P
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12:40 tcohen where should I put some style stuff for the OPAC?
12:40 tcohen opac.css?
12:40 wahanui opac.css is a great place to start...
12:41 jcamins Probably. What are you trying to do?
12:41 tcohen I want to make the minus/plus links in adv search feel like links
12:41 jcamins Yeah, opac.css.
12:41 tcohen thanks
12:42 tcohen i'll check there isn't already a bug for that heh
12:42 oleonard Thanks tcohen that's a worthwhile improvement
13:03 tcohen Bug 10444
13:03 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10444 minor, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , In advanced search(more), [+] and [-] should behave like links on hover
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13:18 tcohen any reference to the sort-string-utf.chr file syntaax?
13:18 jcamins It might be somewhere on IndexData's website.
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13:39 oleonard Well, that was an inappropriately long time to discover I typed "=" when I should have typed "=="...
13:40 tcohen you're not listening the right music while reading the code oleonard
13:41 oleonard Oh is that it? Is there a list somewhere?
13:41 tcohen rangi had one, I'm just listening Air
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13:45 drojf oleonard: it took me about that long to use the right PERL5LIB directory and see everything  just works
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13:54 tcohen jcamins: should I set encoding utf-8 on top of the sort-string-utf.chr file? looks like we don't do it in en
13:55 jcamins tcohen: I don't know, but that sounds like a reasonable idea.
14:02 gmcharlt @quote random
14:02 huginn gmcharlt: Quote #140: "<oleonard> That's why I'm the only one with a flying car. I just didn't figure anyone else would be interested." (added by gmcharlt at 12:39 PM, June 03, 2011)
14:02 * oleonard has no idea where that comment came from
14:03 jcamins oleonard: someone opted not to share a patch they wrote, I imagine.
14:03 tcohen hi gmcharlt
14:03 gmcharlt hi tcohen
14:03 * drojf changes libraries
14:04 jcamins postfix?
14:04 wahanui postfix is, like, found at (but you probably can skip the SASL stuff) or at
14:06 tcohen what's wrong with the SASL stuf?
14:07 jcamins tcohen: it's not necessary if you're not allowing any sort of non-local mail sending.
14:09 tcohen with anyone get angry if I post a followup for the 'es' stuff for zebra that add ru and uk too to Makefile.PL?
14:09 tcohen i'll fill a new one
14:17 tcohen bug 10447
14:17 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10447 normal, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Needs Signoff , Language definitions for 'ru' and 'uk' are not available during install
14:20 tcohen git bz?
14:20 wahanui well, git bz is so much fun :) or[…]_bz_configuration or just about anything except intuitive or AMAZING and WONDERFUL
14:21 gmcharlt opinions are slightly divded :)
14:21 * tcohen always forgets how to send two patches to koha-patches
14:21 jcamins gmcharlt: apparently so.
14:21 wahanui apparently so is just after fa
14:21 tcohen does anyone know what happened to attach -e ?
14:21 jcamins Nothing?
14:21 wahanui Nothing is a requirement, we have guidelines though
14:21 jcamins Is that a trick question?
14:22 gmcharlt tcohen: it works for me
14:22 gmcharlt just did, not even five minutes ago
14:22 tcohen it didn't for me yesterday and today, maybe tomorrow :-P
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14:35 jcamins tcohen: did you mention more than one bug in the commit messages?
14:35 jcamins If you mention more than one bug you have to specify the bug number.
14:36 tcohen you're talking about my loose use of git send-email?
14:36 jcamins No, git bz attach -e.
14:36 jcamins If you mention more than one bug in the commit message, this command will fail: git bz attach -e HEAD
14:37 jcamins Instead you have to do: git bz attach -e 10405 HEAD
14:37 * oleonard didn't know it was an option to not include the bug number
14:38 tcohen oh, i never used that feature jcamins, I always do git bz attach -e 10405 HEAD
14:39 tcohen its just that there's no 'Obsoletes' sentence
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14:39 jcamins Oh, in that case the problem is...
14:39 jcamins @excuse
14:39 huginn jcamins: My excuse for today is "LP0 is on fire"
14:40 oleonard Good one.
14:40 tcohen heh
14:41 tcohen Oh, I guess its my fault: the bug didn't contain a patch, but a .chr file
14:44 tcohen proof: if attachment.get("ispatch") == "1"
14:44 tcohen didn't think of that because @excuse
14:44 tcohen @excuse
14:44 huginn tcohen: My excuse for today is "LP0 is on fire"
14:44 wahanui i already had it that way, huginn.
14:44 oleonard My excuse for today?
14:45 * oleonard shrugs
14:45 jcamins wahanui: my excuse for today?
14:45 wahanui no idea, jcamins
14:49 drojf excuse?
14:49 wahanui drojf: The server at (port 666) appears to be down.
14:53 tcohen added a followup for ccsr oleonard ([+])
14:59 bigbrovar_ anyone here experienced with setting ldap with koha.. I have everything setup.. here is my ldap config  I just want ldap to update user passwords through compare. My ldap server allows for anonymous bind.. problem I have is when I create a user on koha.. it takes a long time before that user is about to authenticate on ldap.. I have to keep restarting and restarting the server before the user can authenticate
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15:00 bigbrovar_ then after a while the user starts to authenticate .. but if the users ldap password is changed.. same process of waiting and takes awhile before the change is reflected in koha
15:00 pianohacker hello
15:01 jcamins bigbrovar_: I am not sure what that could be, but that sounds bizarre.
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15:13 bigbrovar_ jcamins: u can say that again. can u please take a look at my config to see if am doing anything wrong
15:14 jcamins I can't really help, sorry.
15:14 jcamins I avoid LDAP.
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15:20 bigbrovar .
15:24 tcohen @wunder wellington, nz
15:24 huginn tcohen: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 12.0°C (3:00 AM NZST on June 12, 2013). Conditions: Rain Showers. Humidity: 94%. Dew Point: 11.0°C. Pressure: 30.01 in 1016 hPa (Steady).
15:25 bigbrovar jcamins: could u please have a look at my ldap config for koha to see if I might be doing something wrong
15:25 jcamins I can't really help, sorry. I don't use LDAP with Koha.
15:34 tcohen can we fix this oleonard?
15:35 tcohen If you give me a hint i can work on it, np
15:35 oleonard Fix what?
15:35 wahanui Fix is probably going to be something else
15:35 tcohen oh, that long line on the search box
15:37 oleonard It has to do with the amount of space the tabs take up.
15:37 oleonard I don't think it's possible to make them match exactly in all languages
15:37 tcohen thats en!
15:38 oleonard I know. If you could fix it for en, what would you do for es, or de?
15:39 tcohen what language makes it work fine?
15:39 oleonard It isn't perfect in any language.
15:42 reiveune bye
15:42 reiveune left #koha
16:00 tcohen oleonard, it had to do with a fixed 500px lenght of the borrowerautocomplete input field
16:00 tcohen seems fixed in master
16:01 tcohen bug 10406
16:01 huginn Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10406 minor, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Master , Remove obsolete CSS related to YUI autocomplete
16:02 tcohen i was about to fill a bug for it!
16:06 jcamins gmcharlt: I seek advice on the creation of the C4::Supplier::Contact object.
16:06 jcamins Actually, not so much advice, as feedback on whether you have a preference for how I submit changes.
16:07 gmcharlt jcamins: go ahead
16:08 jcamins As RM would you prefer that I implement the object initially by populating it from the data already in aqvendors (or whatever the table is called), and submit that as a standalone patch with a subject something like "Vendor contacts should be refactored," or should I just go ahead with the new table from the get-go?
16:09 jcamins C4::Bookseller::Contact, rather.
16:09 gmcharlt those poor magazine sellers, left out in the cold
16:09 gmcharlt (thinking)
16:09 jcamins The first method is exemplified somewhat in this:[…]b4b9a6dd2817ad8e9
16:11 gmcharlt jcamins: if I understand the question correctly, ideally I'd like the submission to be a patch series, e.g., (1) new module + changes to use it (2) new table creation (3) updatedatabase logic to move the legacy contacts over
16:12 gmcharlt i.e., each patch self-contained, but they'd be pushed as a branch
16:12 gmcharlt does that answer your question?
16:12 jcamins Yes.
16:12 jcamins I wasn't sure if you'd like 1 and 2 combined or not.
16:12 gmcharlt I prefer them separate
16:13 jcamins Thanks.
16:23 melia joined #koha
16:24 melia talljoy here?
16:24 talljoy yes
16:25 mcooper joined #koha
16:28 libsysguy1 joined #koha
17:15 tcohen Is "Price of book" correct in the overdues report? Shouldn't it be "Price of item" (or "material")?
17:17 mtompset joined #koha
17:18 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
17:18 pianohacker tcohen: There's very little about that report that's correct
17:19 pianohacker wait, I don't see what you're talking about
17:19 pianohacker and hi mtompset :)
17:19 mtompset Greetings, pianohacker. :)
17:20 gmcharlt tcohen: hence[…]d99add957acc7bcfd
17:21 pianohacker that would be why! :)
17:22 tcohen heh
17:23 druthb o/
17:24 tcohen i wont pick it unless someone really needs it anyway
17:25 mtompset Greetings, tcohen gmcharlt. :)
17:25 tcohen hi mtompset
17:25 gmcharlt hi mtompset
17:28 mtompset Hmm.... I'm pleased to be making progress on my SAML authentication project. :) Just wondering if patron extended attributes would be a good place for storing the authentication source (i.e. authenication from OpenID or Corporate Website or Koha DB). Any ideas?
17:29 tcohen specific field in borrowers
17:30 mtompset I'd like to do as little DB schema changes as possible.
17:31 mtompset The extended attributes seems to be a way to extend the DB without changing the schema on a forward basis.
17:31 mtompset borrower_attributes
17:37 tcohen but are designed so the librarian can touch them
17:38 jcamins mtompset: they would not be a good place, no.
17:39 jcamins Unless you're envisioning the librarian choosing which authentication method should be used for each account.
17:39 mtompset That's what I am thinking.
17:39 mtompset The problem is not every account will have been created in Koha, some will be created having authenticated from an external source.
17:39 mtompset That's the scenario I'm pondering.
17:40 gerundio joined #koha
17:41 mtompset That's why I am thinking borrower_attributes would be okay. Oh, and when I say source, I don't mean forcing a user to authenticate a particular way. I mean where they authenticated.
17:42 jcamins What is it you are trying to accomplish?
17:42 jcamins Because my initial response is that unless it is intended to be a prescriptive switch for librarians to set, should they so desire, it shouldn't go in extended attributes.
17:42 jcamins And even then I question it.
17:45 rambutan joined #koha
17:45 rhcl joined #koha
17:45 mtompset We are setting up independent branches for a number of libraries inside and outside of our organization. The goal is to know who to give access and to what. The problem with multiple instances is there is no way to integrate searches.
17:46 jcamins Okay.
17:46 jcamins What is the right way to merge one hash into another hash?
17:47 mtompset Is this the same thought, or a separate one?
17:47 jcamins That was completely separate.
17:47 jcamins While waiting for you to explain what you're trying to solve with the extended attributes, I was asking a Perl question.
17:48 mtompset[…]ge-0.12/
17:48 jcamins @hash1{ keys %hash2 } = values %hash2;
17:50 druthb hm.  ~dmuey…  I know him!  He works a few offices down from me.  :D
17:50 oleonard @later tell khall[…]_bug.cgi?id=10212
17:50 huginn oleonard: The operation succeeded.
17:50 huginn Bug 10212: enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Columns configuration for tables
17:50 mtompset Greetings, druthb oleonard. :)
17:51 druthb hi, mtompset. :)
17:52 tcohen mtompset: you could have a new table for that, right?
17:52 mtompset We are sort of treating branches like collections, and there are certain collections you do not want publicly searchable. And the non-searchable branches need to be excluded for external partners.
17:53 mtompset tcohen: I suppose, but if I'm going to create a new table, I think I'd prefer to add a column into borrowers. :P
17:54 tcohen not if you are about to write a class for "Authentication sources"
17:54 tcohen bbs
17:54 jcamins I'm still waiting to hear what you need to do?
17:56 mtompset We are sort of treating branches like collections, and there are certain collections you do not want publicly searchable. And the non-searchable branches need to be excluded for external partners.
17:56 mtompset I think that covers it.
17:56 mtompset internal and external partners will authenticate from different sources.
17:58 mtompset It's about limiting access based on how you authenticate, because how you authenticate is going to define you as an internal or external partner.
17:58 jcamins Okay, but that doesn't explain the borrower attributes.
17:58 jcamins You mean you then want to use those attributes to modify the search?
17:58 mtompset the authentication source.
17:58 mtompset Yes, I believe so.
17:58 jcamins Ah.
17:59 mtompset Non existent koha db user -> authenticate at internal partner site -> create user as internal partner -> login -> OPAC away.
18:00 mtompset Non existent koha db user -> authenticate at external partner site -> create user as external partner -> login -> OPAC away (with limitations)
18:00 * druthb thinks mtompset is trying to do heinous, painful things, and pities him a little.
18:00 * mtompset grins.
18:00 jcamins I don't think that's a good idea.
18:00 rhcl left #koha
18:01 mtompset Can you explain why?
18:03 jcamins Based on the description, it doesn't sound generalizable, and would be a lot of mess for what seems like very little gain.
18:03 mtompset Thanks for the pity, druthb.
18:03 jcamins How many people are going to limit based on *method* of authentication?
18:04 mtompset Not so much method as where... OpenIdP, Facebook, WindowsLiveID, Corporate Site, Koha DB.
18:05 jcamins Right, it sounds like you'll be greatly decreasing entropy in C4::Search for tenuous advantages.
18:06 tcohen how can i test right-to-left theme?
18:06 jcamins At least, that's how I interpret what you're trying to do.
18:07 jcamins Lucky for you, since I'm only the former RM, you don't actually have to persuade me.
18:07 jcamins tcohen: install ar-Arab?
18:07 druthb mtompset:
18:07 mtompset Yes, but if the idea makes sense to you, then it may make sense to others.
18:09 mtompset Actually, there is already a way to hide items from the OPAC search, but the branch name, in which matching items which are not show, still shows up in the filtering for OPAC.
18:10 tcohen that's it jcamins? no syspref or something?
18:11 jcamins tcohen: well, you have to switch to the RTL language.
18:12 tcohen it looks pretty
18:13 jcamins It's a bit buggy, but it looks a million times better than it did before 3.12.
18:18 mtompset jcamins makes things pretty. :)
18:20 tcohen oleonard, do u agree the 'borrowerautocomplete' div from is obsolete too?
18:27 jcamins On the uncertain prices page... is the contact information display as appalling as I think it is?
18:28 jcamins It looks to me like everything is just run together in one appalling mess.
18:28 jcamins Does it look that way to anyone else?
18:28 oleonard tcohen: I couldn't say for sure without testing it
18:29 tcohen oops, just issued <Enter> on my git-bz
18:29 tcohen obsolete it if not appropriate
18:30 tcohen i tested removing it as i saw it was there to assign the input box a class and id
18:31 tcohen but you removed the related css selectors...
18:32 jcamins There must be a better way to display that.
18:34 jcamins Oh well. I guess refactoring means not changing things.
18:34 * jcamins sets it back to the way it was.
18:35 jcamins Regretfully.
18:35 oleonard jcamins: It looks jumbled to me too.
18:35 oleonard jcamins: Should the contact information even be on that screen?
18:36 oleonard We could put vendor info into the sidebar like it is with patrons
18:36 jcamins oleonard: ooh, good idea!
18:36 jcamins I'll leave it as is in this patch, though.
18:36 jcamins Better not to change too much or the RM might get crotchety.
18:39 oleonard If the RM gets too crotchety he will crochet this for you and make you wear it:[…]7232227222040.jpg
18:39 jcamins lol
18:39 jcamins Wow.
18:39 jcamins That's impressive.
18:39 gmcharlt that's one way of putting it
18:46 tcohen oleonard, master looks great in both arab and en on Firefox
18:47 tcohen on Chrome the input box is smaller than the width of the tabs
18:47 pianohacker oh god I think that coat wants to eat me :(
18:48 mtompset Okay, that was weird.
18:50 oleonard On which page tcohen?
18:51 tcohen i'm sutk on the patron-search box
18:52 oleonard I don't see the problem you describe, so I wonder which page you're looking at.
18:54 oleonard Oh yay, the slow checkout times thread is back!
18:54 * oleonard pops some popcorn
18:59 raj joined #koha
19:00 oleonard_ joined #koha
19:00 oleonard_ So, leaning on the power button and I reached back to plug in a peripheral was not the best idea
19:01 tcohen super pretty staff page (firefox):
19:01 tcohen not so pretty staff page (chrome):
19:01 oleonard_ Same link tcohen
19:02 tcohen yeah, it always happens to me :-(
19:02 tcohen
19:08 rambutan joined #koha
19:59 laurence left #koha
20:05 kathryn joined #koha
20:45 cait joined #koha
21:25 trea logs?
21:25 wahanui i think logs is
21:49 tcohen joined #koha
21:52 tcohen noon #koha
21:52 cjh morning
22:18 eythian hi
22:22 tcohen morning eythian
22:22 eythian hi tcohen
22:25 maximep left #koha
22:35 bag @seen druthb
22:35 huginn bag: druthb was last seen in #koha 4 hours, 28 minutes, and 17 seconds ago: <druthb> mtompset:
22:41 jcamins eythian: yeah, I read that, thought about saying something, and decided I didn't want the personal response that was almost inevitable if I did.
22:43 eythian heh
23:00 rangi mtj: see joys mail to the list, it seems a sep framework for RDA is more correct than overloadnig your aacr2 frameworks
23:00 * rangi goes back to fighting self check machines
23:00 rangi aka
23:01 pianohacker rangi: I think that was missing a few curse words, but yeah, about right
23:03 mtj rangi, just read the email now...
23:06 mtj fyi, that all sounds fine to me
23:10 dcook joined #koha
23:13 mtj hmm, so a vaild AACR2 of RDA record could be created using the latest MARC21 spec…?
23:13 dcook O_o
23:13 rangi only if you put the PYF and IAKA:DC in the right places
23:14 rangi dont forget the AIJUW@
23:14 pianohacker ... please tell me that was keyboard mashing oh lord
23:14 dcook hehe
23:14 dcook mtj: RDA is essentially AACR3
23:14 dcook Well..
23:14 jcamins mtj: I think you're confusing formats (MARC21) and style guides (AACR2 and RDA)
23:15 mtj right, im slowly clicking to the difference
23:15 dcook (Although RDA did require changes to the MARC21 format as well)
23:15 jcamins AACR2 and RDA have minutely different rules about unimportant things.
23:15 jcamins dcook: sure, but so have LCRIs for AACR2.
23:15 jcamins ^^ not just keyboard mashing.
23:15 dcook Mmm, I forgot about those
23:16 jcamins The Numismatic Society had them in paper up to about 2006. So we used AACR2 ca. 2006.
23:16 dcook Wasn't that the last revision of AACR2?
23:17 jcamins Well, when we weren't trying to actually provide useful information to patrons.
23:17 jcamins dcook: as far as I'm concerned, LCRIs are part of AACR2 in the US.
23:17 dcook Fair enough.
23:17 jcamins Therefore, despite the official standard being fixed in 2002, it continued to change thanks to copious amounts of red tape from our non-national library.
23:18 eythian mtj: USMARC is the on-disk format (so is MARCXML), MARC21 is the schema used to allocate fields etc, AARC2/RDA are the style guide telling you how the fields should be used.
23:18 dcook And how to transcribe the information from the item into the metadata record
23:19 mtj so, for koha… RDA and AARC2 frameworks would basically be the same, but with small changes for various default values?
23:19 dcook RDA changing many of the unimportant rules of transcription
23:20 eythian mtj: well, I suspect that MARC21 was also updated to account for RDA, so things will need to be changed to account for that.
23:20 dcook eythian: Right
23:20 dcook mtj: Hence the updates to MARC21 for the bibliographic and authority frameworks
23:21 mtj yes, im assuming the latest marc21 spec here
23:21 dcook You need different frameworks for RDA and AACR2, because you're recording information in different MARC tags
23:21 dcook mtj: Yeah, I think update 16 or whatever it was is up to date
23:21 dcook mtj: Also, some of the fixed fields (such as the 008) have different options available in RDA
23:22 dcook Which is something I don't think we've necessarily looked at yet...
23:22 mtj ok, that all makes sense :)
23:22 dcook Yay! :)
23:22 dcook So really...if we have MARC frameworks that match the most up to date version of the MARC21 spec, then people can do whatever they want
23:23 dcook To be honest, I've never worked in a library that followed AACR2 100%
23:23 jcamins dcook: our fixed field plugins are up-to-date.
23:23 mtj example - new RDA 336, 337, 338 fields *aren't* valid for AACR2 records, so they would be disabled for the AARC2 fwrk?
23:23 dcook jcamins: Sweet. They weren't last I looked but that was probably a few months ago now.
23:23 jcamins dcook: yeah, I pushed fixes at the eleventh hour before the string freeze.
23:23 dcook mtj: Right
23:23 tcohen we should abandon the marc21 serialization format
23:23 dcook jcamins: Legend.
23:24 eythian tcohen: but it's great for accessing records stored on tape...
23:25 * pianohacker found a good time to leave ;)
23:25 dcook Rumour has it that usmarc is faster to index than marcxml
23:25 dcook At least when doing enough records to notice a difference
23:25 dcook i.e. hundreds of thousands
23:25 eythian hmm, I actually thought it was the other way around, but it's been a long time.
23:26 tcohen i found marcxml faster
23:26 eythian though definitely parsing, and processing usmarc is faster, so you're probably right.
23:26 jcamins dcook: actually, that rumor turns out to be wrong.
23:26 tcohen indeed, will try it again with that 1.5M records database I have
23:26 dcook jcamins: I can't say I'm surprised. It's second-hand info on my part.
23:27 dcook In that case, I see zero reason to keep the raw marc.
23:27 jcamins The serialization is a lot faster, but Zebra converts MARC to XML.
23:27 dcook Hmm...
23:27 dcook Are you sure about that?
23:27 dcook Isn't that a config option?
23:27 jcamins Nope.
23:27 jcamins I mean internally for indexing.
23:28 dcook Huh
23:28 jcamins That's why GRS-1 uses Zebra's "xpath."
23:28 dcook Didn't know that it did. Interesting.
23:29 dcook If that's the case, it seems rather backwards to hand Zebra usmarc, have it turn it into xml, then have it output usmarc
23:29 rangi thats why we hand it xml
23:29 jcamins DOM, of course, is XML throughout the pipeline.
23:29 dcook I wonder why Edmund found it faster to use usmarc than marcxml...
23:30 dcook jcamins: Makes sense
23:30 tcohen i guess there's an historical explanation for the use of usmarc
23:30 dcook Mmm
23:30 * dcook bets it might have to do with malformed xml records
23:31 dcook tcohen: I imagine
23:31 eythian dcook: you should never have malformed XML records.
23:31 eythian Not that it doesn't happen
23:31 mtj tcohen, yeah, raw usmarc was used in koha before there was a marcxml perl package, afaik
23:31 eythian but if you find them, then someone is doing a bad job and not using an XML parser/writer.
23:32 eythian and that person should be chastised.
23:32 dcook eythian: I couldn't agree more.
23:32 tcohen i cannot find the year MARCXML was standarized
23:32 wizzyrea they are bad and they should feel bad.
23:32 eythian possibly scourged and excoriated too.
23:32 mtj and afaik, we added/switched to marcxml - but didnt remove the biblioitems.marc field
23:32 wizzyrea the word excoriated is simply not used enough in common language.
23:33 wizzyrea scourged too.
23:33 dcook They're pretty good terms
23:33 dcook mtj: I believe that Koha still uses the serialization sometimes...possibly in
23:33 tcohen 2002
23:34 dcook Hmm, maybe not
23:34 tcohen a year and a half ago the docs told people to run rebuild_zebra without -x
23:34 tcohen (still)
23:35 eythian it started to become a problem when you got too many items for a usmarc record to handle
23:35 mtj eythian, yeah, that too
23:36 mtj is the bi.marc data currently used anywhere in koha,  or is it completely dead?
23:36 tcohen hmm, i have an idea of after-office activity for Reno which involves beer
23:36 dcook mtj: I'm certain it's used somewhere.
23:36 dcook tcohen: I heard beer.
23:36 * dcook perks up
23:37 tcohen we could try to take notes (like in history.txt) of important moments in koha's life
23:37 tcohen not only the adoption of certain technology, but funny or interesting stuff people remember
23:38 tcohen and, it should involve beer
23:39 rangi tcohen: i did do that
23:39 rangi awards and stuff
23:39 rangi but yes we can easily pad that history file out more
23:40 rangi its a tab separated file
23:40 rangi the 3rd column is for describing
23:40 rangi so you can put date\ttext\tsomething
23:41 rangi ie 20130622\t3.10.7 released\treleases
23:41 rangi 201301612\tTomas likes beer\trandomfacts
23:42 rangi the idea is it should reflect the history of the project, so its far more than just new developers and releases
23:42 rangi so
23:42 rangi be rangi
23:42 wahanui Send a patch!
23:42 rangi :)
23:45 dcook What the..
23:45 wahanui the is a stop word
23:45 dcook Quiet you
23:46 dcook Hmm, always nice when a bug is fixed and then gets created again down the road...
23:47 dcook bug 6067
23:47 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6067 normal, PATCH-Sent (DO NOT USE), ---, gmcharlt, CLOSED FIXED, When Add Duplicate changing framework would lose data
23:47 dcook Best to re-open the bug or create a new one?
23:47 dcook And reference the old one?
23:47 wizzyrea new with reference
23:47 * dcook thumbs up
23:48 bag heya oceana peeps
23:48 dcook hey ya bag
23:49 bag dcook, wizzyrea, rangi, eythian - the usuals
23:49 wizzyrea trea too :p
23:51 bag oh trea - he gets too much of me wizzyrea
23:51 wizzyrea such a thing is possible?
23:53 bag wizzyrea++
23:53 bag I don't think so
23:56 bag for fun
23:56 Topic for #koha is now just get on the long term plan - eventually there will only be one koha
23:58 rangi :)
23:58 bag ;)  winky smilely face is the way to go
23:58 dcook Does this mean that we get to carry swords?

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