IRC log for #koha, 2013-05-31

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:00 sivoais joined #koha
00:09 dcook Interesting campaign in NSW to stop smoking...the idea is that loved ones also pledge to quit something if you quit smoking
00:10 dcook I don't smoke but giving up vanilla coke and chocolate...perhaps I see where they're coming from...
00:14 mtj i'll give up anchovies and sardines
00:14 dcook This ->[…]nity-website.html
00:15 dcook Unfortunately, Canlii is still not an "official" source of the law, so you can't use anything you find in court (if I recall correctly), but it is a rather wonderful site for finding out the law (and then you go to the authoritative source which is identical anyway)
00:16 dcook Rather neat idea to provide a community forum for legal experts. Again, it wouldn't be "official" or legal legal advice, but...definitely would help people out
00:16 dcook Open source the law!
00:20 dcook mtj: I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not :p
00:21 mtj dcook, yep… very sarcastic!
00:21 dcook Hmm, I thought that might be the case
00:21 dcook Some people love their fish though?
00:24 mtj ive always been squeamish about seafood, since i was a kid... :)
00:25 mtj but insects and spiders… yum!
00:27 dcook Spiders? I never thought of that
00:27 dcook Despite that whole eating spiders in your sleep thing
00:27 dcook Personally, I'd like to try out snake
00:35 mtj i remember as a kid, seeing nat-geo pics of people roasting huge hairy spiders wrapped in a big leaf, over a fire
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00:41 mtj …a remote bush tribe, somewhere in papua new guinea, i think
00:42 dcook Hmm, I suppose you cook it then crack it open?
00:44 dcook[…]id_Assistive_Limb
00:44 dcook "What are you doing, Dave?"
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02:28 gmcharlt @quote random
02:28 huginn` gmcharlt: Quote #89: "<owen> We defy stereotypes: We're not afraid of commitment!" (added by jwagner at 04:32 PM, August 19, 2010)
02:43 dcook hehe
02:44 wizzyrea @quote random
02:44 huginn` wizzyrea: Quote #34: "<chris> oh except that time .. when katipo decided to write an ils just for fun, then forced HLT to use it" (added by gmcharlt at 06:23 PM, September 16, 2009)
02:44 wizzyrea @quote random
02:44 huginn` wizzyrea: Quote #48: "<sekjal> no, anything I said was my fault" (added by jwagner at 09:52 PM, December 09, 2009)
02:44 wizzyrea @quote random
02:44 huginn` wizzyrea: Quote #223: "kf: ... which has opportunities for great power and wizardry as well as grande disaster." (added by druthb at 02:06 PM, December 12, 2012)
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03:06 mtj gmcharlt, still about?
03:07 gmcharlt mtj: yep
03:07 wizzyrea @quote random
03:07 huginn` wizzyrea: Quote #203: "francharb: oh god… it's complicated" (added by wizzyrea at 03:48 PM, May 08, 2012)
03:08 mtj gmcharlt, how do the #evergreen peeps track marc21 updates?
03:09 gmcharlt mtj: effectively, wait until there is a sufficient dull roar of complaints that the tag list is too out of date :/
03:09 eythian ah, same as the Koha method then
03:09 gmcharlt pretty much
03:10 mtj lol, ok… i just thought i'd ask, in case EG had a better method
03:11 gmcharlt sure :)
03:11 mtj im curious whether anyone has a machine readable version of the spec… yet
03:11 mtj …other than scraping the loc website
03:12 dcook mtj: I've been wondering about this too
03:12 dcook Might not be a bad idea to ask bkriegel
03:12 gmcharlt I'm not aware of anything better than that
03:12 gmcharlt sort of things where ultimately best thing would be for LC to do it
03:12 dcook As he's been updating the authority frameworks, and I would love to know what he's used as his source of information. It might just be the LoC site, but..
03:12 mtj i'm thinking it might be worth asking the Q, on the code4lib list
03:13 gmcharlt dcook: well, short of whatever LC uses internally, it's not going to get more authoritative than the LC website
03:13 dcook gmcharlt: Right, but it would be a royal pain to go through every entry
03:13 dcook I just wonder if there are update digests where a person can see incrementally how the spec has changed over time
03:13 mtj dcook, there are, sort of….
03:13 gmcharlt the way back machine?
03:14 dcook mtj: Oh?
03:14 dcook gmcharlt: That sounds horrible
03:14 gmcharlt to be fair, the LC website does include some change log info on the pages themseves
03:14 dcook That bit at the bottom?
03:14 gmcharlt yep
03:14 dcook Yeah, that is pretty handy
03:15 eythian I'm surprised the MARC21 spec isn't published as XML that we can use to make framewords straight from
03:16 gmcharlt eythian: your sense of optimism reflected in that statement is refreshing :)
03:16 eythian they publish everything else in XML
03:16 eythian like the language codes that MARC uses
03:17 mtj dcook, actually - i might be wrong there :/
03:17 * gmcharlt suspects that there have been over _2 decades_ worth of ILS vendors and projects asking LC to put the tag, subfield, and value lists in a structured format
03:18 gmcharlt language codes and the like being available as XML is (relatively) recent
03:19 dcook Where are the language code, etc. XML?
03:19 mtj dcook, aah, here we go! ->
03:19 eythian they're linked from whereever the marc spec explains the need for them
03:20 mtj … i think thats about as good as it gets
03:20 eythian <-- dcook
03:20 dcook mtj: Ahhhh! That's totally what I was talking about.
03:20 dcook Neato
03:20 eythian <-- from here
03:21 dcook[…]hic/ecbdlist.html
03:21 dcook And that's a plain text version of what we'd like
03:21 dcook Mmm, ish
03:21 dcook "This document lists all valid and obsolete data elements that may appear in MARC 21 bibliographic records. It is intended to meet the need for a simple data element list to support MARC system development and online validation of MARC data elements. This listing does not include any descriptions or examples of MARC data elements. Descriptions and examples can be found in the MARC 21 Format for Bibliographic Data."
03:24 dcook I suppose someone could write a processor for this plain text...but that's rather suboptimal
03:26 mtj koha's framework was created around nov 2007, so a safe assumption is that koha's marc21 version is 'Update No. 8 (October 2007)'
03:27 mtj and the current marc21 spec is 'Update No. 16 (April 2013)'
03:32 dcook[…]l/mrcbxmlfile.dtd
03:33 dcook Looks like that file is only good up to...2008
03:36 dcook marc?
03:36 wahanui hmmm... marc is the standard that isn't
03:36 dcook marc?
03:36 wahanui The MARC specs live at - abandon hope all ye who enter here.
03:36 dcook marc?
03:36 wahanui marc is the standard that isn't
03:36 dcook Hmm, where's wizzyrea when you need her..
03:36 mtj hmm, that marcxml page looks promising tho
03:37 * dcook shrugs
03:37 dcook It hasn't been updated in 5 years
03:37 wizzyrea wot?
03:37 wahanui wot is d diff btw Staff client interface and OPAC
03:37 dcook wizzyrea: marc...death...stuff
03:37 cjh oh god.
03:37 wizzyrea oh
03:38 cjh use more marc?
03:38 cjh more marc?
03:38 wizzyrea we should use more marc
03:38 wahanui http://02varvara.files.wordpre[…]no-bear.jpg?w=800
03:38 dcook O_o
03:38 wizzyrea j/k, I'm not really getting pulled over.
03:38 cjh there wer are, ty
03:38 cjh wer... close enough.
03:39 trea <saidnooneever>we should use more marc</saidnooneever>
03:40 dcook Maybe it's my lack of familiarity with MODS, but those schemas look quite nice...[…]mods-schemas.html
03:41 rangi mods is a zillion times more sane
03:41 rangi never really caught on tho
03:43 wizzyrea I love those said no one ever memes.
03:43 trea use more marc is <reply>
03:43 trea wahanui use more marc is <reply>
03:43 wahanui i already had it that way, trea.
03:43 rangi[…]40305423972331520
03:44 wizzyrea ^.^
03:44 wizzyrea it's the twenteens version of "not"
03:44 trea i just wait till the memes have fallen out of favor, then start using them. it's completely deliberate.
03:45 wizzyrea you're and anti-hipster.
03:45 rangi :)
03:45 wizzyrea an* even
03:45 trea i was a hipster before it was cool
03:45 eythian trea: so, the .eLM software uses the marc structure to store all its data, such as borrowers.
03:45 rangi all your base are belong to memes
03:45 trea ^
03:45 eythian I think it's a case of when all you have is marc, everything looks like a catalogue record.
03:46 trea sounds about right
03:48 eythian gmcharlt: it's improper that you should make me fix things to close to beer o'clock
03:49 trea if eythian gets too much blood in his beer stream, disaster will ensue.
03:49 eythian there will be problems
03:49 dcook eythian++
03:49 wizzyrea I drink your milkshake?
03:50 dcook @quote add eythian: I think it's a case of when all you have is marc, everything looks like a catalogue record.
03:50 huginn` dcook: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command).
03:50 gmcharlt eythian: oh dear, I didn't realize that being RM now came with such powers of insistence
03:50 dcook Murrrr
03:50 dcook Not cool huginn
03:51 * gmcharlt avoids temptation to set *all* bugs to patch does not apply ;)
03:51 gmcharlt seriously, it can, of course, wait
03:52 mtj afaict, this is about the best marc21 spec, loc have ->[…]hic/ecbdlist.html
03:52 eythian no, then it'll just sit there and fester
03:52 eythian also, I want to get this patch in
03:53 eythian gmcharlt: the conflict is in the perldoc :)
03:53 eythian easy fix
03:54 gmcharlt figured as much
03:55 gmcharlt mtj: yeah, that looks as good as it gets -- and actually, wouldn't be hard at all to write a parser for that
03:55 mtj yeah, i think so too
03:57 mtj the goofy thing is.. loc could easily dump that info in a much more user-friendly format, but frustratingly dont?! :/
03:58 gmcharlt eh, that's pretty friendly
03:59 gmcharlt (i.e., I will happily take that ;) )
03:59 mtj anyhoo, i'm really very happy to find that info - so not complaining here
04:08 mtj …and thanks heeps for the link eythian++ :D
04:08 eythian plenty more where that came from, I have a whole internet worth of links!
04:08 eythian though, most of them are pretty rubbish if I'm being honest.
04:25 mtj ^^ ohh, that link was actually from dcook++
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06:46 reiveune hello
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07:04 talljoy must be morning at biblibre!  bonjour!
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07:11 samueld hi everybody
07:13 asaurat hi
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07:29 gaetan_B hello
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09:15 drojf hi #koha
09:16 rangi hi drojf
09:16 cait hi drojf
09:16 drojf hi rangi and cait
09:17 cait and bye guess i should entertain my guests  - one has started to wash yesterdays dishes
10:13 vfernandes joined #koha
10:13 vfernandes hi :)
10:15 vfernandes one question people : migration from 3.0.6 to 3.12 is trivial (besides on update of items of 3.4)??
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12:29 tcohen morning #koha
12:29 oleonard Hi tcohen, #koha
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12:37 druthb o/
12:37 tcohen speedy-druthb
12:38 druthb not this morning, I'm not.
12:41 tcohen sorry, I don't belive you
12:42 druthb :P
13:02 * druthb updates her accomplishments list—today is my 80-day evaluation at cPanel!
13:02 oleonard Clear some space for the gold stars druthb
13:03 druthb Bah.  It's still woefully short, by my thinkin'.  But I managed to hit my stride on a  couple of things, so I'm finally starting to feel productive.
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13:18 druthb "Ladies and gentlemen, the performance will continue in ten minutes' time, when the role of druthb will be performed by Grumpy Cat."
13:42 oleonard Joubu: I don't understand what's going on with Bug 8662. I can use git bz to apply the patch on a fresh branch and it works with no problem.
13:42 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8662 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Signed Off , Remove unused famfamfam icons
13:48 tcohen heh
13:48 tcohen
13:50 tcohen typed wrong twice :-D
13:50 tcohen
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14:08 Joubu oleonard: hum, weird. I just try again now and I get the same error. I asked to jajm and he got it too.
14:09 * oleonard grumbles
14:13 jcamins oleonard: did you do a rebase after applying?
14:13 jcamins (and then a reupload)
14:14 jcamins Your repo is probably the only one with the needed deltas.
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14:16 oleonard jcamins: I created a new branch based on master and used git-bz to apply the patch. It applied with not problem. Rebasing works.
14:18 jcamins oleonard: right, but did you reupload the patch?
14:19 jcamins (after running `git rebase origin/master`)
14:26 oleonard I guess I didn't rebase before re-uploading yesterday
14:27 gmcharlt @quote random
14:27 huginn` gmcharlt: Quote #146: "rangi: when I was at brendans house we went to the farmers market and bought lots of almonds which I had to eat on the plane, cos can't bringthem into nz, so I was offering ppl nuts on the plane. cait: makes sense rangi: if its sensible for a crazy nzer to be waving almonds in ur face at 3am, then yes" (added by wizzyrea at 08:03 PM, July 28, 2011)
14:27 druthb @quote random
14:27 huginn` druthb: Quote #54: "<@gmcharlt> from my POV, bug wrangling expands to fill all available volunteers" (added by jwagner at 08:05 PM, February 09, 2010)
14:28 * oleonard tries again
14:29 jcamins oleonard: bug 8662?
14:29 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8662 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Signed Off , Remove unused famfamfam icons
14:29 jcamins The latest patch works for me.
14:29 * oleonard crosses his fingers
14:30 adam_m Hello, does anyone know of  a way to bulk upload suers
14:30 adam_m users*
14:31 gmcharlt adam_m: I prefer to keep the suers out ;)  seriously, there's a patron import tool available on the Tools page
14:32 gmcharlt it takes a CSV file as input
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14:33 adam_m gmcharlt: thanks
14:33 jcamins paul_p: There's a book here on Les Poulains de Corinthe. :D
14:33 paul_p jcamins = in french = "poulain" = "young horse"
14:34 jcamins paul_p: I prefer to imagine that you are descended from an important Corinthian dynasty. :)
14:38 adam_m gmcharlt: alright, so how does one go about creating a CSV file with profiles
14:38 gmcharlt adam_m: what's your starting point for the patron data?
14:38 huginn` New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 10326: doesn't restore value of CataloguingLog syspref <[…]a093cfdb727a6bb84>
14:40 adam_m gmcharlt: I've set everything up and added a few profiles already, I just want to see if i can add a bunch of profiles all at once rather than having to go through everything one at a time, even though I know ill need to set up passwords for everything later
14:41 jenkins_koha Starting build #1211 for job Koha_master (previous build: SUCCESS)
14:41 gmcharlt what do you mean by profiles?  patron categories?  staff users?  staff user permissions?
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14:41 jcamins adam_m: but where is the data coming from?
14:42 adam_m gmcharlt: i mean importing a batch of patrons for a category I've already created.
14:42 gmcharlt ah, OK
14:42 gmcharlt so the first line of the CSV file should be a header listing the fields you want to populate for the patrons you're loading
14:42 gmcharlt so let's say you make the patron category the first column (order doesn't) matter
14:43 gmcharlt first line wwould start with "categorycode"
14:43 gmcharlt subseqent lines (containing the patron records) would start with the code of the patron category you wanted assigned to each patron
14:43 gmcharlt alternatively...
14:44 gmcharlt the patron import tool lets you (from its form) set default values for fields you don't include in teh CSV
14:44 gmcharlt so if your file contains patrons that all go to the same category, you can set the default there
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14:46 adam_m gmcharlt: haha, ok well I'm not sure how to start with this. First I need to know how to actually create a CSV file, can I just do that with gedit or something.
14:46 gmcharlt one easy way to do it is to enter the data into a spreadsheet
14:47 gmcharlt then "export" or "save as" CSV
14:47 adam_m ok
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14:49 adam_m gmcharlt: alright so i opened up libreoffice, so in the first cell i have the categorycode, so for each profile im creating under that i need to list what exactly? would it just be the name i had used for the profile category?
14:49 gmcharlt the category code
14:51 adam_m right ok, so in my case ill just use STUDENT or STAFF
14:52 gmcharlt yep, sounds right
14:52 adam_m gmcharlt: as for the other information, I'll need to enter the user name and other data like that, is there a list of headers somewhere
14:53 gmcharlt yes -- if you go to the patron import tool, it includes a list of headers on its first screen
14:53 adam_m gmcharlt: also does this allow me to assign some sort of default password this way
14:53 jcamins Or, of course, you could fix whatever underlying bug you're encountering, which is what I usually do when I encounter a bug.
14:53 jcamins talljoy: ^^ whoops, wrong window
14:53 gmcharlt adam_m: yes, you can
14:53 * gmcharlt makes sure jcamins encounters ALL THE BUGS
14:54 adam_m gmcharlt: excellent, you guys are awesome
14:54 jcamins gmcharlt: the trick is to make me encounter the bugs while working as opposed to while faffing around.
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15:03 pianohacker good morning
15:04 oleonard Hi pianohacker
15:10 pianohacker hey oleonard
15:10 wahanui hmmm... oleonard is still here, if you just wish hard enough. or Koha's master UI designer
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15:24 reiveune bye
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15:53 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #1211: UNSTABLE in 1 hr 12 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]Koha_master/1211/
15:53 jenkins_koha Janusz Kaczmarek: Bug 10326: doesn't restore value of CataloguingLog syspref
15:53 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10326 minor, P5 - low, ---, januszop, Pushed to Master , turns off  CataloguingLog sys pref
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16:10 huginn` New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 10350 - Capitalization: Home Library column in staff detail items table <[…]a076130a966be23bd>
16:11 jenkins_koha Starting build #1212 for job Koha_master (previous build: UNSTABLE -- last SUCCESS #1210 1 day 0 hr ago)
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16:43 chris_n khall++ #Rolling Hard Due Dates
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16:52 druthb http://devopsreactions.tumblr.[…]sees-git-workflow
16:54 druthb oleonard:  http://devopsreactions.tumblr.[…]someone-elses-css
16:54 oleonard :D
16:55 druthb That tumblr is full of good ones.
16:59 pianohacker I could watch that git gif all day, that's mesmerizing
17:00 druthb yes.  There's an even better one, a few pages in, "Initial Git Training."
17:00 * oleonard digs the Heathers quote: http://devopsreactions.tumblr.[…]t-the-data-center
17:00 * oleonard retitles, "After delving into"
17:01 druthb talljoy:  http://devopsreactions.tumblr.[…]86169/go-live-day
17:02 talljoy HAHAHA!  that describes my day today!!!
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17:05 pianohacker oh god, so true. that gif is best with "Sail" though
17:12 * tcohen is thinking what is the benefit of using packaged javascript libraries instead of those shipped with koha in .deb packages
17:17 pianohacker oleonard: This is probably the best though: http://devopsreactions.tumblr.[…]internet-explorer
17:18 druthb pianohacker++
17:18 druthb ie--
17:18 pianohacker ie--
17:18 pianohacker old ie mostly, but the new one could turn on us at any moment
17:19 * gmcharlt would appreciate comments on bug 10385
17:19 jcamins tcohen: consistency.
17:19 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10385 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , item-level_itype checks need to be refactored
17:19 wahanui i think consistency is always a good thing. It will make using DBI::Class that much easier.
17:21 gmcharlt wahanui: consistency is the hobgoblin of programmer's minds
17:21 wahanui ...but consistency is always a good thing. It will make using DBI::Class that much easier....
17:21 gmcharlt consistency?
17:21 wahanui consistency is always a good thing. It will make using DBI::Class that much easier.
17:22 jcamins wahanui: no, consistency is the hobgoblin of programmers' minds.
17:22 wahanui ...but consistency is always a good thing. It will make using DBI::Class that much easier....
17:22 jcamins consistency?
17:22 wahanui consistency is always a good thing. It will make using DBI::Class that much easier.
17:22 jcamins wahanui: forget consistency
17:22 wahanui jcamins: I forgot consistency
17:22 jcamins wahanui: consistency is the hobgoblin of programmers' minds.
17:22 wahanui OK, jcamins.
17:22 pianohacker D:
17:22 jcamins consistency?
17:22 wahanui it has been said that consistency is the hobgoblin of programmers' minds.
17:22 pianohacker nooooooo
17:24 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #1212: STILL UNSTABLE in 1 hr 13 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]Koha_master/1212/
17:24 jenkins_koha Owen Leonard: Bug 10350 - Capitalization: Home Library column in staff detail items table
17:24 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10350 trivial, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Master , Capitalization: Home Library column in staff detail items table
17:25 tcohen consistency with what jcamins?
17:25 tcohen will the wheeze version match squeeze's?
17:25 tcohen do they even match the one from the tarball?
17:25 jcamins tcohen: with other Debian packages.
17:29 tcohen as long as there are no API changes between the shiped versions everything is fine
17:30 jcamins Right.
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17:31 jenkins_koha Starting build #1213 for job Koha_master (previous build: STILL UNSTABLE -- last SUCCESS #1210 1 day 1 hr ago)
17:33 tcohen oleonard: do u know of any important change between YUI 1.8 and 1.9?
17:34 oleonard No idea
17:37 oleonard Why those versions tcohen?
17:38 tcohen those are the versions shipped with squeeze and wheeze respectively
17:38 tcohen versions of libjs-yui I mean
17:39 oleonard Those don't seem to line up with YUI version numbers
17:40 jcamins tcohen: well, Koha includes version 2.8.0r4, and since we know the packages work fine under Squeeze, I think we can probably safely assume there were no changes between 1.8 and 2.8.
17:40 tcohen i wrote it wrong, it was 2.8 and 2.9, sorry
17:45 maximep iirc yui 2.9 fixes tons of stuff for ie9
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17:46 maximep should be all fixes
17:46 tcohen this is the changelog[…]adMe/Rollup_2.9.0
17:47 jcamins maximep: so with YUI 2.9 you get a huge message filling your entire window saying "IE SUCKS! USE A REAL BROWSER!"?
17:47 tcohen i raise this issue as we are about to support wheeze if i'm not mistaken
17:48 jcamins You'll just have to try it, I think.
17:49 tcohen i guess i'll ask a Debian-er to do it :-P
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17:52 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
17:53 tcohen I belive we should ship our own and use that one anyway. we QA against the one we ship
17:53 oleonard Speaking of YUI, time to submit a patch for Bug 9779
17:53 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9779 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, ASSIGNED , Remove global include of YUI assets from the staff client
17:54 gmcharlt heh
17:54 * oleonard gives basket groups the evil eye
17:54 tcohen heh
17:54 jcamins oleonard++
17:54 jcamins tcohen: you should ask liw about that.
17:54 tcohen *but* that won't go into 3.12 for now
17:54 tcohen liw?
17:54 wahanui BACKUPS ARE AWESOME!
17:55 gmcharlt :)
17:56 pianohacker jcamins: bahahaha
17:56 pianohacker ... I have no idea why I put jcamins: there. assuming you did something funny
17:57 mtompset tcohen: Debian-ist. :P
17:57 druthb wahanui:  pianohacker?
17:57 wahanui i haven't a clue, druthb
17:57 druthb !
17:58 oleonard pianohacker was gone so long wahanui forgot him.
17:58 druthb pianohacker is a brilliant young whooper-snapper.
17:58 mtompset wahanui: mtompset?
17:58 wahanui you are disliking the silent warnings flooding his error logs.
17:58 mtompset Still true!
17:58 druthb wahanui:  druthb?
17:58 wahanui Well, she finally snapped, like we all knew she would.
17:58 tcohen Leisure Industry Week
17:58 pianohacker hahaha, it was something random and weird
17:58 oleonard "whooper?!" Whipper!
17:59 * mtompset nods, "It's Whipper."
17:59 druthb oleonard: I'm from Redneckistan.  Whooper.
18:00 mtompset Harder to google for, druthb.
18:00 druthb :P
18:01 oleonard We need one of these for "whooper" vs. "whipper" http://strangemaps.files.wordp[…]/popvssodamap.gif
18:02 druthb it's an easy one…see all the red areas on that map?  that's where it's "whooper."
18:02 druthb In Redneckistan.
18:05 tcohen ok, Lars Wirzenius
18:07 administrator joined #koha
18:08 mtompset Nice map, oleonard.
18:08 administrator is this koha channel
18:08 administrator is anyone here
18:08 oleonard administrator: Yes, just like the topic says.
18:09 administrator hey.. I'm on my third time installing .. can u help
18:09 pianohacker administrator: sure, what's your problem?
18:09 administrator many
18:10 administrator first.. I'm a monk.. sadhu (thanks) for your help in the dharma!
18:10 administrator I am on koha squeeze ubuntu 13.04
18:10 administrator i do the instructions and I get "it worked"
18:11 administrator then problems happen
18:11 oleonard Installing from packages? Which instructions are you following?
18:11 * liw has been invoked?
18:11 liw or summoned
18:11 mtompset it worked?
18:12 administrator I once got it to work.. but I had to use a different port 8080  I'm not sure if I can remember how to do that.  also I  created a few users by mistake with koha create and when I deleted them.. pooff  broken again!
18:12 jcamins Default Apache.
18:12 mtompset That sounds like your apache server isn't configured to point at koha yet.
18:12 administrator hold on
18:12 jcamins administrator: are you using the IP address to access Apache?
18:12 administrator[…]ubuntu_-_packages
18:12 mtompset Yes, that's likely his problem, jcamins.
18:12 jcamins liw: we were discussing why the packages use the system version of YUI.
18:13 administrator i also use[…]on_Debian_Squeeze
18:13 mtompset okay...
18:13 administrator but I just use that for the repository stuff
18:13 administrator what is yui
18:13 wahanui yui is BSD license, according to Home › About Koha › Licenses
18:13 liw jcamins, ah... that'd be because Debian frowns upon embedded code copies (it make security updates harder); since Koha isn't getting uploaded into Debian, it's OK for Koha to embed its own copy of YUI
18:13 tcohen i was exposing my fear that not shiping our own might be cause of problems
18:14 oleonard yui is unrelated to your problem. Different topic.
18:14 tcohen as squeeze and wheeze don't share the same version/patchset
18:14 jcamins administrator: tht was for liw, not you. Nothing to worry about.
18:14 jcamins *that
18:14 administrator i'm confused
18:15 mtompset administrator: You will need to sort through multiple conversations on the channel at once.
18:15 administrator koha-common is 50% finished now..
18:15 jcamins administrator: ignore everything about YUI, that is a separate conversation happening at the same time.
18:15 mtompset administrator: so what steps have you done so far? I'm looking at[…]ubuntu_-_packages
18:16 mtompset you have installed Ubuntu, correct?
18:16 mtompset (and not debian)
18:16 administrator IF my computer name is LibraryPC what do I put in this for the domain name (LAN only for now)
18:16 administrator DOMAIN=""  # Any library instance will be a subdomain of this string.
18:16 administrator INTRAPORT="80"  # TCP listening port for the administration interface
18:16 administrator INTRAPREFIX=""  # For administration interface URL: Prefix to be added to the instance name.
18:16 administrator INTRASUFFIX="-intra"  # For administration interface URL: Suffix to be added to the instance name.
18:16 administrator DEFAULTSQL="/usr/share/koha/defaults.sql.gz"  # only needed if you're pre-populating from another Koha database
18:16 administrator OPACPORT="80"  # TCP listening port for the users' interface (if you skip this, the apache default of 80 will be used)
18:16 administrator OPACPREFIX=""  # For users' interface URL: Prefix to be added to the instance name.
18:16 administrator OPACSUFFIX=""  # For users' interface URL: Suffix to be added to the instance name.
18:16 administrator ZEBRA_MARC_FORMAT="marc21"  # Specifies format of MARC records to be indexed by Zebra. Possible values are 'marc21', 'normarc' and 'unimarc'
18:16 administrator ZEBRA_LANGUAGE="en"  # Primary language for Zebra indexing. Possible values are 'en', 'fr' and 'nb'
18:16 administrator I installed ubuntu
18:16 administrator I did the updates
18:17 mtompset administrator: please use the paste site.
18:17 administrator clean
18:17 mtompset paste?
18:17 wahanui paste is probably found at
18:17 mtompset That way you don't flood the channel with your cut and pastes.
18:18 gaetan_B bye !
18:18 pastebot "Administrator" at pasted "file listed in instructions" (10 lines) at
18:18 mtompset If you follow the blue boxes in the instructions without changing anything, you should get a working and machine working.
18:18 mtompset But the question is, administrator, do you have a network or system administrator to talk to?
18:18 administrator http://paste.koha-community.or[…]submit=Format+it!
18:19 administrator is that right
18:19 mtompset Step back from the contents of that paste, and tell me if you have a system administrator or network administrator to help you, administrator?
18:19 administrator we do.. sort of..he is well.. difficult
18:20 * mtompset chuckles, "Aren't all of them?"
18:20 administrator heee hee
18:20 administrator he does not like this project.. because he wants a bsd server
18:21 administrator we have a cheap pc
18:21 mtompset Okay, which version of ubuntu did you install? server or desktop?
18:21 administrator it works if we can just get it to work
18:21 administrator 13.04
18:21 administrator desktop
18:21 mtompset okay... desktop. So, you plan on using this on this machine only?
18:22 administrator koha common is 87% finished
18:22 mtompset that's fine... but are you expecting someone to access it over the internet to search your library?
18:22 administrator yes.. but we will have other machines searching on the lan
18:22 tcohen so koha-common hasn't downloaded yet administrator?
18:22 administrator no or not in the close future
18:23 administrator almost finished.. 92%
18:23 administrator 94%
18:23 mtompset okay... you will need to talk to your network administrator then. Sorry.
18:23 administrator what do I put in teh domain name
18:23 administrator what do we need to ask?
18:23 mtompset wait... I haven't gotten there yet, administrator.
18:24 mtompset The problem is a lan usually is set up to use DHCP and not necessarily static IP addresses.
18:24 administrator static
18:24 administrator fixed ip..
18:24 mtompset your machine has a static/fixed ip address on the lan?
18:24 administrator I think i was confused.. the answer is no internet needed
18:24 mtompset Well, then you are set!
18:25 administrator ok. . that problem is finished..
18:25 administrator do I put the computer name in the dns box or just leave that file empty
18:25 mtompset WAIT!
18:25 mtompset we haven't gotten a full understanding of your network layout and how you are attempting to use it yet.
18:25 administrator ok
18:26 administrator we have one main computer to run koha and  this will be used for people .. clients patrons to use
18:26 oleonard Bye #koha
18:26 mtompset Now, there are multiple ways to solve this, the quick and dirty way is to just follow the blue boxes in the instructions (making sure to read the instructions around to see if the blue box applies).
18:26 tcohen bye oleo
18:27 administrator everyone is leaving.. sorry
18:27 mtompset The problem with this solution is... you will need to tweak every single hosts file for all the machine that will access koha. The better solution is to get some DNS entry set up by the network administrator.
18:28 administrator ok we will ask
18:28 administrator for a name.. that can't cost much (in favors)
18:28 mtompset And then you should ask him... what to fill in for the domain name.
18:28 administrator then what
18:28 administrator was this the problem instead of the computername
18:29 mtompset because that's going to be part of the setup.
18:29 administrator ok..
18:29 mtompset I'm not sure what you are asking.
18:29 administrator what name shoudl we ask for .. we can do it now.
18:29 mtompset you know that you are going to koha-create... library... (can't recall the command right now)
18:30 mtompset so it will be library.<whatever the network administrator tells you>
18:30 mtompset for the OPAC client.
18:30 mtompset and library-intra.<whatever the network administrator tells you> for the Staff client.
18:30 administrator sudo koha-create --create-db instancename
18:31 administrator ok my friend is running now...
18:31 administrator he will ask now
18:31 mtompset where you change instance name to the part of the machine's name, and it needs to match what the DNS entry for the network says.
18:31 administrator I appreciate your help.. we don't want to do the lbuntu cd
18:32 mtompset so "sudo koha-create --create-db library"
18:32 administrator hmm.. koha common just asked me for a name I used librarypc
18:32 administrator is that a problem now
18:32 mtompset Oh, no... this is why you need to READ.
18:32 mtompset What package was koha-common setting up?
18:32 mtompset nullmailer?
18:33 administrator yah.. its the first box that comes up
18:33 administrator a few boxes come up
18:33 administrator then it installs
18:33 mtompset Yes, and it probably asked about MySQL too.
18:33 administrator yah
18:33 mtompset Again, this is why your network administrator should set this up.
18:33 administrator it does not say this in the blue boxes :)
18:33 administrator ok
18:33 mtompset I meant blue boxes in the instructions.
18:34 mtompset in the web browser.
18:34 mtompset not as part of the install.
18:34 administrator from my link.. am i on the right instructions
18:34 mtompset[…]ubuntu_-_packages
18:34 administrator[…]ubuntu_-_packages
18:34 administrator ok..that's what im using
18:34 mtompset so you are in the midst of "sudo apt-get install koha-common"
18:35 administrator yup.. maybe finished.. let me check
18:35 mtompset which is in a blue box (your browser may make it another colour)
18:35 administrator yup finished
18:36 administrator shall I apt-get remove.. I bet that won't let me start allover
18:36 administrator ;)
18:36 mtompset okay, the librarypc thing you typed... does not affect koha, except in that you probably configured mail incorrectly now.
18:36 administrator no prob...
18:36 mtompset Don't worry about mail.
18:37 administrator we are far away from mail.. a small monastery with 2k books maybe
18:37 mtompset like I said, before you do the next step... you need to talk with your network administrator.
18:37 mtompset he will tell you the value for domainname.
18:37 administrator i'm waiting on my friend as we speak.
18:37 mtompset he will tell you the value for domain.
18:37 administrator in the mean time..
18:37 administrator how to get it to work with out the ports.. or is that the dns thing
18:38 administrator ?
18:38 mtompset that is a DNS thing, in that the DNS will set up a name that you can use to access it, and the name will distinguish between staff client and OPAC.
18:39 mtompset that is what those prefix and suffix values are about.
18:39 administrator I guess that means yes (way above me)
18:39 administrator another question ..
18:40 administrator When I got halfway successed.. the apache said.. "success it worked"
18:40 mtompset Now, if you don't want to wait for the administrator... you CAN change the port for INTRAPORT to 8080 (for example), and then you don't need a name.
18:40 mtompset That means you have apache2 set up.
18:40 mtompset That does not mean anything for koha.
18:40 administrator getting to the webinstaller was difficult
18:40 administrator once we are there.. we are golden
18:41 administrator can we change that later?
18:41 mtompset you can't, because it is too difficult to describe how.
18:41 administrator ok
18:41 mtompset but it is possible.
18:42 mtompset It is best to set it up correctly the first time.
18:42 administrator yah anything is possible if you have time and money (my favorite quote as a lay person)
18:42 administrator another thing.
18:42 wahanui another thing is different
18:42 administrator The users on ubuntu.. what is that?
18:42 mtompset wahanui: forget another thing
18:42 wahanui mtompset: I forgot another thing
18:42 administrator I deleted them once and it fried
18:43 administrator we were so close then
18:44 mtompset Okay, there only really need to be three users on the machine: root, yours, and library-koha (assuming you create an instance call 'library')
18:44 administrator what are the users.. I think khha create does them.. I had a 2 extra users because I typed the command twice
18:44 mtompset exactly.
18:44 administrator when I deleted them.. poof
18:44 administrator :(
18:44 mtompset when you type koha-create it creates them.
18:44 administrator apache died
18:45 mtompset sounds like you had an almost working koha and you broke it really well. :)
18:45 administrator is there a way to restart if I screw up.. I tried to remove the pkgs but it did not work.  I removed teh  koha dir and mysql dir and that was not good enough to restart
18:45 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #1213: STILL UNSTABLE in 1 hr 14 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]Koha_master/1213/
18:45 administrator it was just a username :)
18:46 administrator does that mean I downloaded a loser
18:46 mtompset administrator: do not go deleting things that you don't understand.
18:46 administrator got that right :)
18:47 administrator jenkins:  does that mean I downloaded a loser
18:47 mtompset if you mess up the koha-create and create something you shouldn't have, use koha-remove.
18:47 mtompset[…]kages#koha-remove
18:47 administrator hey.. that's a cool
18:47 mtompset Another useful page to keep bookmarked.
18:48 administrator I just hope I dont need to reinstall ubuntu again .. and lose my bookmarks
18:48 administrator :)
18:48 rambutan joined #koha
18:48 rhcl joined #koha
18:48 administrator we got a dns
18:49 tcohen it should get updated mtompset, but its quite useful!
18:49 mtompset The commands wiki page, tcohen?
18:49 administrator dhamma-pc  is our dns
18:49 tcohen yes
18:49 administrator now what
18:49 wahanui now is good time with holidays coming up
18:49 administrator do we need .com  or .org
18:49 mtompset No.
18:50 administrator what about our mail server.. no prob right?
18:50 mtompset You just need to be consistent in using dhamma-pc everywhere.
18:50 administrator oops..
18:50 administrator reinstall?
18:50 mtompset Are you planning on emailing out overdue notices?
18:51 administrator maybe in the future
18:51 administrator far future
18:51 administrator 6 months
18:51 mtompset Then, in 6 months, bug your network administrator to fix the mail on your koha machine. :P
18:51 khall_away joined #koha
18:52 administrator laugh.. but really .. can we do it now
18:52 administrator what does it entail
18:52 mtompset nope, because I don't know how to. :)
18:52 administrator how to undo?
18:53 administrator control z
18:53 mtompset undo what?
18:53 wahanui undo is not included in paul_p's proposal.
18:53 mtompset wahanui: forget undo
18:53 wahanui mtompset: I forgot undo
18:53 administrator the mail thing.. the first pop up boxes before the koha installs itself
18:53 mtompset you don't want to do that.
18:54 mtompset because it will be like a sweater with a loose thread.
18:54 mtompset You pull the thread, and the sweater is no more.
18:54 mtompset Let the thread dangle.
18:54 administrator shall i reinstall ubuntu and lose my bookmarks you just gave me?
18:54 mtompset NO!
18:55 mtompset The problem is configuring email under Ubuntu.
18:55 administrator ohh..ok..
18:55 mtompset Seriously... ignore that problem. Let the thread dangle. The sweater must exist. :)
18:55 administrator My friend is an apache expert.. what program does this run
18:55 jcamins postfix?
18:55 wahanui postfix is probably found at (but you probably can skip the SASL stuff) or at
18:55 jcamins ^^ I use the Postfix mail server, and those are instructions for setting it up.
18:56 jcamins Your network administrator will know how to deal with it, though.
18:56 administrator ok lets forget it.. my friend can help. or our admin
18:56 administrator I'm going to run some more commands
18:56 mtompset WAIT!
18:56 administrator ok.. thanks for catching me
18:57 administrator see[…]ubuntu_-_packages
18:57 administrator under the download the latest koha release..
18:57 administrator there is a mention of a bug
18:57 mtompset You didn't edit the /etc/koha/koha-sites.conf file.
18:57 administrator and some commands
18:57 mtompset -- that's why the instructions have oldstable.
18:57 administrator are these still current (i skipped)
18:58 mtompset Don't worry... keep going.
18:58 administrator i can run them if you want
18:58 administrator he latest version package (3.10.x using squeeze repository) seems to break slightly under Ubuntu. Simply:
18:58 administrator sudo rm /etc/apt/sources.list.d/koha.list
18:58 jcamins mtompset: why do the instructions have oldstable?
18:58 jcamins (tl;dr version, please)
18:58 administrator i donno
18:59 mtompset Because when I last edited them there was a install bug.
18:59 mtompset They should be updated to reflect the correction.
18:59 administrator yup
18:59 mtompset But at this point in time...
18:59 mtompset administrator: keep going.
18:59 jcamins Okay.
18:59 mtompset edit the /etc/koha/koha-sites.conf file.
18:59 administrator ok.. TELL ME what todo
19:00 jcamins (my interjections are in no way intended as instructions, I am simply curious about things that are said occasionally)
19:00 mtompset we are going to put ".dhamma-pc" in DOMAIN.
19:00 administrator ok.. i'm editing
19:00 administrator sadhu!  that means.. great in buddhist language!
19:00 mtompset everything else, the same as the example.
19:01 mtompset save the file.
19:01 mtompset now we're at the next command. sudo a2enmod rewrite
19:02 mtompset any output is irrelevant, because it is either already turned on, or it just go turned on.
19:02 mtompset next command... I'm thinking you are going with a local database.
19:02 mtompset sudo apt-get install mysql-server
19:02 mtompset please choose a good password for the root user, and DO NOT TYPE IT HERE.
19:03 mtompset If you have already installed mysql-server, then please remember the root user password. :)
19:04 administrator wait.. I made the file I want to post it.. but all I changed was the dns to .dhamma-pc
19:04 administrator pay attention to the dot in front
19:04 mtompset okay, use the paste your example, like I showed you before using the website.
19:04 administrator how to paste big things
19:05 mtompset paste?
19:05 wahanui I eat paste! It's tasty!
19:05 bag wahanui: sniff paste?
19:05 wahanui bag: i haven't a clue
19:05 bag heh
19:05 pastebot "Administrator" at pasted "my domain" (10 lines) at
19:06 mtompset Yes, that looks right.
19:06 mtompset did you save it?
19:07 mtompset did you save it, administrator?
19:07 administrator yup
19:07 administrator idid the rewrite
19:07 mtompset okay, did you install mysql-server yet?
19:08 administrator doing it now
19:09 administrator then I will do sudo koha-create --create-db library
19:09 mtompset Yes.
19:11 administrator did the sql pwd.. i read that 2% of users use "password" in 2600
19:12 mtompset Have you done that and moved on to the Ubuntu Security Tweak section?
19:12 administrator sql is finished..
19:12 mtompset So you are at the configuring ports section?
19:13 mtompset configuring apache, I mean.
19:14 administrator I tweaked
19:14 mtompset okay.
19:14 administrator sudo nano /etc/apache2/ports.conf  ??
19:14 administrator shall I do that now
19:15 mtompset Yes, the goal is to confirm all the ports needed are listed and that NameVirtualHosts is there too.
19:15 administrator i see.. NameVirtualHost *:80
19:15 administrator Listen 80
19:16 mtompset Uncommented?
19:16 mtompset No # in the front of them?
19:16 administrator yup
19:16 mtompset Okay, then there's nothing to do. Which is good. :)
19:16 mtompset close that.
19:16 administrator glad you updated it correctly
19:16 mtompset since this is your own stand alone machine,
19:16 mtompset sudo a2dissite 000-default
19:18 mtompset Then jump to the Enable Modules and Site section.
19:18 pastebot "Administrator" at pasted "a2dissite result" (5 lines) at
19:19 mtompset Don't worry about that feedback yet.
19:19 administrator shall i run reload
19:19 mtompset No.
19:19 mtompset Because the last comment in the Enable Modules and Site section does what you need.
19:19 mtompset last command.
19:20 mtompset have you run the commands in the Enabled Modules and Site section?
19:20 administrator no
19:20 mtompset Do that.
19:20 administrator the rewrite stuff
19:20 administrator ?
19:20 mtompset Yes.
19:20 administrator ok
19:20 mtompset and ignore all the outputs.
19:21 mtompset Because they will say you need to reload or restart.
19:21 mtompset But the last command does a restart.
19:22 administrator administrator@LIbraryPC:~$ sudo a2ensite library
19:22 administrator ERROR: Site library does not exist!
19:22 mtompset you didn't run the koha-create command?!
19:22 administrator no
19:22 mtompset run it now.
19:22 mtompset sudo koha-create --create-db library
19:22 administrator did goof
19:23 mtompset then continue the commands in Enable Modules and Site section.
19:24 pastebot "Administrator" at pasted "koha create" (11 lines) at
19:24 mtompset That's fine.
19:24 administrator ok good .. i thought i was toast
19:24 mtompset No, it's just a DNS complaint.
19:25 mtompset If you had an externally accessible website like
19:25 mtompset then you would have configured apache2 to use it.
19:26 mtompset oh, and that reminds me...
19:26 pastebot "Administrator" at pasted "enable results" (12 lines) at
19:27 mtompset Yes, administrator, that's fine.
19:27 administrator ok .. i really appreciate your help..
19:27 mtompset could you...
19:27 mtompset sudo vi /etc/apache2/sites-enabled/library
19:27 mtompset And then paste that?
19:27 administrator how bout gedit
19:28 mtompset whatever...
19:28 mtompset I'm a vi person.
19:28 mtompset gedit is just fine.
19:28 pianohacker I think that's the gedit motto, truthfully
19:28 pianohacker gedit is Just Fineâ„¢
19:29 pastebot "Administrator" at pasted "gedit no vanilla" (31 lines) at
19:29 mtompset good... just checking there wasn't a step missed in the instructions. :)
19:29 administrator sadhu
19:30 administrator no web installer?
19:30 administrator now web installer
19:30 mtompset Not yet... we're getting very close.
19:30 administrator ok
19:30 mtompset paste the output of your sudo ifconfig.
19:30 administrator why don't they have a script?
19:30 administrator ok
19:31 mtompset Because every installation could have variations in configuration.
19:31 pastebot "Administrator" at pasted "ifconfig" (28 lines) at
19:32 administrator ok
19:32 mtompset Hmm... okay... Now, I have a strange request...
19:32 administrator ok.. no complains?
19:32 mtompset I would like you to reboot the machine.
19:32 administrator ok
19:32 administrator i hope I can connect to irc again!
19:32 mtompset and paste the contents of sudo ifconfig.
19:32 administrator ok..
19:33 administrator you want the ip address again?
19:33 administrator so we don't get dhcp
19:33 mtompset Hmm...
19:33 mtompset could you sudo cat /etc/network/interfaces
19:34 pastebot "Administrator" at pasted "cat results" (7 lines) at
19:35 mtompset Strange, no reference to eth0.
19:35 mtompset Okay... no need to reboot.
19:35 administrator uh oh
19:35 administrator oh.. thats goog?
19:35 administrator good
19:35 administrator ?
19:35 mtompset I just want to make sure that your ip address on eth0 is going to stay the same.
19:36 administrator maybe I should reboot ? r u sure
19:36 mtompset If it isn't mentioned, but you have it, then I'm willing to guess it will stay the same.
19:36 mtompset Don't reboot.
19:36 administrator ok.
19:36 administrator web install
19:36 administrator ?
19:37 mtompset Let's get it working, and then if it breaks, because your ip address changes... just come back to here and someone might be able to help you fix that.
19:37 mtompset No.
19:37 mtompset Tweak Hosts file.
19:37 administrator i tried to go to dhamma-pc.. got error
19:38 administrator ok lets tweak.
19:38 administrator what to do?
19:38 mtompset administrator: Because you haven't tweak hosts file.
19:38 administrator oh i see
19:39 mtompset now, instead of use
19:39 mtompset and instead of use library.dhamma-pc
19:39 pastebot "Administrator" at pasted "tweak" (11 lines) at
19:39 mtompset and instead of use library-intra.dhamma-pc
19:39 administrator doing
19:39 mtompset You need to ADD two lines.
19:40 mtompset let's see the paste now.
19:42 mtompset administrator? Paste the revised /etc/hosts file with the two new lines.
19:43 administrator i'm working still
19:43 administrator wait gedit is easier
19:43 mtompset That's fine... nano, gedit, vi... use whatever works.
19:46 mtompset administrator? Paste the revised /etc/hosts file with the two new lines.
19:46 administrator shall I save?
19:46 mtompset Let's see the paste first.
19:46 administrator shall I save
19:47 mtompset NO.
19:47 mtompset I said ADD... I did not say change.
19:48 administrator oopss.. ok
19:48 pastebot "mtompset" at pasted "Use this" (12 lines) at
19:49 administrator i bet 127 is not ok
19:50 mtompset administrator: It's fine.
19:50 mtompset Leave it.
19:50 administrator save
19:50 administrator ?
19:50 mtompset Yes.
19:50 administrator ok
19:50 administrator fini
19:50 mtompset Now... let's see how close we are.
19:50 mtompset open a web browser to http://library.dhamma-pc/
19:51 administrator shall i library.dhamma-pc
19:51 mtompset You should get a maintenance warning.
19:51 mtompset Well?
19:52 pastebot "Administrator" at pasted "web results" (9 lines) at
19:53 administrator i only typed library.dhamma-pc
19:53 administrator firefox
19:53 mtompset fine...
19:53 administrator I've been here before
19:53 administrator what next
19:53 wahanui next is translation manager
19:53 mtompset did you get a maintence page?
19:54 mtompset No... next is NOT translation manager.
19:54 mtompset translation manager is AFTER everything is installed.
19:54 administrator ok
19:55 mtompset did you get a maintence page?
19:55 administrator what maintenence page.. I posted
19:55 administrator web results
19:55 administrator error
19:55 mtompset YAY! valid error.
19:56 mtompset Good error.
19:56 mtompset Now...
19:56 mtompset we need to look up the password.
19:56 administrator ok.. ??  it should say in the instructions.. I've been here before
19:56 administrator ;(
19:56 mtompset sudo xmlstarlet sel -t -v 'yazgfs/config/pass' /etc/koha/sites/library/koha-conf.xml
19:56 administrator ok
19:57 administrator fini
19:57 mtompset you only get that error if you have NEVER run the web install set up for Koha.
19:57 administrator ok
19:57 administrator shall i web again
19:57 mtompset WAIT...
19:57 mtompset you have the password?
19:57 mtompset don't tlel me it!
19:57 mtompset do not tell me it.
19:58 mtompset Do you have the password?
19:58 administrator ok .. it's not "password"
19:58 mtompset :)
19:58 administrator yes
19:58 administrator oh shoot
19:58 mtompset now... instead of library.dhamma-pc
19:58 mtompset use library-intra.dhamma-pc
19:58 administrator The monk here wanted a different password
19:58 administrator I'm not sure they will match
19:59 mtompset Don't worry about that!
19:59 administrator ok
19:59 administrator sql asks for a passord.. did koha create ask for one too?
19:59 administrator if not we are ok
19:59 administrator i've done a few installs ..maybe confused
19:59 mtompset Stop asking questions.
19:59 administrator ok
20:00 administrator what next\/
20:00 mtompset Go to library-intra.dhamma-pc
20:00 administrator oops!
20:00 mtompset You should get a log in screen.
20:00 mtompset Did you get a log in screen?
20:00 administrator you are god (smallg)
20:00 mtompset No, I'm just a man with a time limit. :)
20:00 administrator The wiki needs to say this stuff
20:00 mtompset Sorry if I come across as rude.
20:01 administrator I thought you were joking
20:01 mtompset Go to library-intra.dhamma-pc
20:01 mtompset You should get a log in screen.
20:01 mtompset Did you get a log in screen?
20:01 administrator i did .. that s why you are a small g god
20:01 administrator yup got it
20:01 mtompset okay... good, we are now in the web installer steps. YAY!
20:01 administrator lets try to log in wait... I know this part
20:02 mtompset Yes.
20:02 mtompset It should be pretty simple now.
20:03 mtompset Though, when it gives you a whole bunch of optional and mandatory things to check... I would check most of them... no sample patrons or libraries though.
20:04 mtompset Now, if you get stuck, ask questions.
20:04 administrator i'm in
20:04 administrator thank you.
20:04 administrator will you be here for a while
20:05 administrator what is your email..or does this irc get archived
20:06 edveal joined #koha
20:08 mtompset irc?
20:08 wahanui rumour has it irc is
20:08 mtompset You can go there to find this conversation and others.
20:08 mtompset Also...
20:08 mtompset You are in with the ultimate user password.
20:09 mtompset You need to create a library branch and patrons.
20:09 administrator ok step 3ing
20:09 mtompset And it is the patron username and password that you match to what the other people want.
20:09 mtompset And if they need higher permissions you can set them.
20:10 tcohen jcamins++ #didn't see those cute release notes before
20:10 administrator ok.. need to get my friend.. to check the things... its his project..
20:11 administrator when I checked 'em he said he could not delete things because of interconnectedness
20:11 administrator it is sort of buddhist you know
20:11 mtompset please refer to appropriate manual:
20:11 administrator i'm on it.
20:11 administrator did the marc21 and now checkingadn unchecking
20:11 mtompset but your first task is to set up branches, and patrons.
20:11 administrator how
20:12 mtompset please refer to appropriate manual:
20:12 rambutan joined #koha
20:12 administrator step 3 is to check options
20:12 mtompset finish the web install.
20:12 rhcl joined #koha
20:12 mtompset you're not done yet.
20:13 mtompset once you are done the web install.
20:13 mtompset log into the staff client using the same user name and password you used to set koha up.
20:13 mtompset and make sure to go to the administration area and set up the things that need setting up (like your library branch and patrons)
20:13 mtompset patrons include staff.
20:14 mtompset the difference is find in the permissions.
20:14 administrator ok.. time to get my friend for step 3
20:14 administrator i'm out for 5 min
20:14 mtompset No, your friend is needed at initial log in. :)
20:14 mtompset But I supposed he'll want to check/uncheck things.
20:15 mtompset So, okay.
20:19 administrator he aint around
20:19 administrator if we do standard things the way it should be done.. then no problem.. he doesn't know anything either
20:20 administrator he was here before.. if I weren't a monk...!!!
20:20 tcohen have a nice weekend mtompset, #koha
20:21 administrator but I am .. so i'll forgive him..
20:21 administrator I'll check and uncheck all but the sample patrons and library
20:21 mtompset Sorry for the slow reply, tcohen. Have a good one too.
20:22 mtompset Did you intentionally format the release notes into the pretty format, jcamins? What application did you use?
20:23 mtompset I have to leave now.
20:23 mtompset administrator: You should have a workable system now.
20:23 administrator wait..
20:24 administrator can i postpone step 3 or do i need to do it all ow
20:24 administrator now
20:25 administrator the optional stuff.. can i add it later and just do the mandatory
20:25 mtompset I don't know, administrator.
20:25 administrator he had trouble removing
20:25 mtompset I have to leave.
20:25 administrator ok..
20:26 mtompset Bye, #koha. Have a great day.
20:26 administrator thanks for your help.. have an ice weekend
20:26 administrator nice weekend
20:30 * rangi tries to route around the damage on the list
20:31 rangi[…]poisonous-people/
20:31 NateC joined #koha
20:40 administrator bye
20:41 administrator left #koha
20:55 jenkins_koha Starting build #127 for job Koha_3.10.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
20:57 jcamins @later tell mtompset Of course that was intentional. I did it in InDesign. The French version was done in LibreOffice, and isn't as nice.
20:57 huginn` jcamins: The operation succeeded.
20:58 pianohacker jcamins: Is there any good open-source equivalent to InDesign that you know of that is open-source? Scribus is the closest, but has a twitchy, awkward ui
20:59 rangi pianohacker: ill ask the design team at work
20:59 pianohacker sweet, thanks
20:59 pianohacker rangi: You're like a friendly, kiwi :)
21:01 rangi heh
21:01 jcamins pianohacker: not that I know of.
21:01 jcamins I tried scribus for a while, but, ugh.
21:01 pianohacker yeah, that was my reaction
21:01 rhcl pianohacker: our publicity person is married to Quark, and I help him all the time; Scribus seems just as logical to me as Quark does.
21:01 pianohacker I just do everything in Inkscape these days, and as twitchy as that text layout engine, it's easier to understand than Scribus
21:02 pianohacker rhcl: Okay, fair enough. Do you know any good tutorials?
21:03 rhcl I can google around a bit; at one time I was playing with it (Scribus) and had gotten a general feel for it, but that was a couple of years ago.
21:05 jcamins rhcl: in terms of interface, Scribus isn't too bad.
21:06 jcamins When it works.
21:06 rhcl then?
21:06 jcamins The major problems I encountered were: 1) it absolutely cannot handle multiple displays.
21:06 jcamins That was a biggy.
21:06 jcamins I had to edit by hand the configuration every time I wanted to open a file.
21:07 rhcl well, I don't think I ever had to mess with the cfg, but again, that was a couple of years ago for me
21:07 jcamins 2) The color support is very poor.
21:07 pianohacker Yeah, that's the thing. Bugs in piles and heaps
21:08 jcamins Even when working the CMYK colorspace, it insists that you're using CMY.
21:08 jcamins Which sucks.
21:08 jcamins A lot.
21:08 rhcl we have a brand new Savin higher-end copier. Color with Quark has great variation between the ps and pcl drivers
21:09 rhcl we're still working on those things--the Pantone charts help some
21:09 jcamins 3) I was not happy with the PDFs/PS it produced for high-res printing.
21:10 jcamins I don't necessarily expect good color matching without custom profiles, but using CMY without any K is not really acceptable for a file consisting of black text and a few color images.
21:10 rhcl jcamins: and you ruled out idiosyncrasies with the printer and printer driver?
21:10 rhcl I
21:10 rhcl oops
21:10 jcamins rhcl: yeah, it's an issue in the screen-rendered PDF too.
21:10 jcamins After that I just bought InDesign.
21:11 rhcl
21:11 jcamins Though maybe there's a new improved version of Scribus.
21:11 * jcamins will download the latest.
21:12 rhcl disclaimer: don't know anything about the above
21:12 jcamins I have 1.4.1.
21:13 jcamins Bah. They're only up to 1.4.2
21:13 * jcamins downloads it anyway.
21:13 jcamins You never know.
21:13 rangi
21:14 rangi right now i need to go get the kindergarten set up for the big party
21:14 pianohacker ' * 1.4.2: Oh, that's what UIs are for! Cor!'
21:14 rangi[…]-birthday-is-Maui  <-- for those that missed it :)
21:14 pianohacker man it would have been nice if ted nelson were less crazy, he was a massive visionary
21:16 rhcl 1.5 is on the website?
21:16 jcamins Ouch, 1.5.0 is a long way away, isn't it:[…]_Release_Schedule
21:16 jcamins rhcl: 1.5.0svn = master
21:17 rhcl this page:[…]_Management_setup   acks color display problems with pdf, says to use Evince for the pdf viewer
21:17 pianohacker evince++
21:18 pianohacker libpoppler specifically, but it's a wonderfully pure PDF viewer
21:18 jcamins Actually, maybe 1.5.0 isn't so far away:
21:18 pianohacker jcamins: Do you do graphic design work? It sounds like you've poked at this a lot
21:19 rhcl jcamins: configure, make, make install?
21:19 jcamins pianohacker: I produce catalogs.
21:20 jcamins rhcl: I don't use development versions of software unless I'm certain I am prepared to deal with what that entails.
21:20 jcamins When I am preparing a document for printing, I am decidedly not prepared to deal with what it entails.
21:20 pianohacker jcamins: What exactly are those? I've heard the term many a time but never seen one
21:20 jcamins lol
21:20 pianohacker * catalogs
21:20 jcamins I don't think any of mine are available publicly.
21:21 pianohacker master = masterful = obviously the best choice for production, right?
21:22 jcamins In addition to doing the cataloging, I tend to end up writing the introductions as the expert on the subject-at-hand.
21:23 pianohacker Ahh, okay. So more exhibit, less metadata
21:24 jcamins Then I got annoyed when clients were taking my intellectually beautiful cataloging, and providing them in Times New Roman-filled pages accompanied by low-quality photocopies.
21:24 jcamins Right.
21:24 pianohacker what sort of people ask for these?
21:24 pianohacker book collectors?
21:25 jcamins Dealers, collectors, and appraisers, in order from most-frequent to least-frequent requestors.
21:26 pianohacker makes sense
21:26 pianohacker cool! very different side of cataloging than the MARC-heavy world I'm used to
21:26 jcamins Yeah, I am not pro-MARC.
21:27 jcamins This may somewhat clarify why I call it Biblio*narrator*. :)
21:28 jcamins Actually, I just printed off copies of my best catalogs from the last year or so.
21:28 pianohacker Yeah. It would be fantastic to have something that isn't just "chop catalog cards into labeled pieces", and worked better to convey information to the computer and could be formatted nicely for the user
21:28 jcamins Well, my best illustrated catalogs that were not published by someone else.
21:28 jcamins Over a hundred pages. I hadn't quite appreciated how many illustrated catalogs I'd done.
21:29 pianohacker When I was first learning, I thought AACR2 punctuation was an irritation; then I learned why it was there, and now I just think it's an archaic abomination
21:29 jcamins (some of the catalogs for dealers are as few as 3-4 pages)
21:29 pianohacker and the smaller ones would be more densely packed?
21:29 jcamins Generally.
21:30 jcamins AACR2 is an abomination, but more because of what we do with it than because it is inherently evil to have the cataloger entering punctuation, IMO.
21:31 jcamins Sorry, AACR2 (well, ISBD) punctuation.
21:32 jcamins AACR2 is also generally an abomination, but that's something else.
21:32 wahanui okay, jcamins.
21:32 jcamins I am very particular about how my catalog entries are punctuated. Initial punctuation, terminating punctuation, those matter a great deal to the overall impression of a catalog, and they are not always derivable from the "fields" that I am using.
21:32 jcamins aacr2?
21:32 wahanui aacr2 is an abomination, but more because of what we do with it than because it is inherently evil to have the cataloger entering punctuation, IMO.
21:32 jcamins aacr2?
21:32 wahanui aacr2 is probably generally an abomination, but that's something else.
21:32 jcamins Heh. Good enough.
21:34 jcamins rhcl: looks like part of my problem was reported in 2006. Ouch.
21:34 pianohacker Yeah, punctuation is quite important. Not to the AACR level though
21:35 jcamins I think it's dinner time.
21:35 jcamins To the dinner table and salad!
21:35 * jcamins will probably be back a bit later.
21:35 rhcl yea, ic
21:36 jcamins pianohacker: here's a catalog I did not do: http://www.mckittrickrarebooks[…]Kittrick_SS16.pdf
21:36 jenkins_koha Project Koha_3.10.x build #127: SUCCESS in 41 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]/Koha_3.10.x/127/
21:36 jenkins_koha Owen Leonard: Bug 6399 - tooltip for tags that says 'separate by comma'
21:36 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6399 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Stable , tooltip for tags that says 'separate by comma'
21:37 pianohacker jcamins: okay, cool. thanks
21:53 maximep left #koha
21:57 dani joined #koha
22:05 rhcl left #koha
22:26 cait joined #koha
22:27 mtj rangi++, just watching now… very interesting! ->
22:28 mtj "...painting the bike shed"
22:29 jcamins We do that a lot.
22:29 mtj i strongly disagree with your statement!
22:30 jcamins lol
22:31 jcamins mtj++ # nicely done
22:31 * cait waves
22:31 cait good night
22:31 wahanui I'll be waiting for you to come back, cait.
22:32 mtj jcamins, bookmark that url for later… it looks like a good one :)
22:32 mtj hey cait
22:32 cait :)
22:32 mtj hi and bye
22:33 cait just checking some mail before going to sleep
22:54 pianohacker grrrrrrrr. Does anyone know of a way to to a git-push in stages? I am being actively thwarted by some sort of upload-throttling in the building's wifi
22:54 jcamins pianohacker: you can do it a few patches at a time.
22:55 jcamins git push myremote commithash:remotebranch
22:55 pianohacker Probably the easiest way
23:00 jcamins Life is good with mail filters.
23:01 jsangalli joined #koha

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