IRC log for #koha, 2013-05-06

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:01 wizzyrea ty :)
00:04 mtj hm, down for me , too :/
00:06 wizzyrea that's stinky, but great
00:06 wizzyrea thanks for checking
00:06 cjh mtj++
00:06 wizzyrea mtj++
00:08 mtj port 7000 is up.. but not doing much :/
00:09 wizzyrea 7090 was the one I was trying
00:10 mtj Address:
00:10 mtj Port: 7190
00:10 mtj either/or… they are both down :p
00:11 eythian 7000 connects, 7090 will time out, 7190 gets connection refused.
00:11 eythian which implies that 7190 is not correct even when things are working.
00:12 mtj 7190 was up last week, i'm sure - i tested if for dcook
00:12 * wizzyrea goes with "it's broken"
00:12 wizzyrea seems safe.
00:12 dcook dinger :/\
00:12 dcook :/ *
00:13 mtj[…]3-04-30#i_1215202
00:13 * dcook almost has a mostly working z39.50 authority search :)
00:13 dcook Search interface is working. Just looking at the import function right now...
00:13 wizzyrea 7190 is innz
00:14 mtj Index New Zealand (INNZ)
00:14 mtj Address:
00:14 mtj Port: 7790
00:14 mtj ^^[…]ion%20Information
00:14 eythian 7790 now?
00:15 eythian Z39.50 needs a standard port allocation.
00:15 mtj heh, they arent big on uptime :D
00:15 wizzyrea 7190 is refused anyway
00:16 wizzyrea same with 7790
00:16 eythian which is why I don't think either of those are correct, they're hitting a firewall or something
00:17 wizzyrea well it's changed either way
00:17 wizzyrea apparently to 7000
00:17 wizzyrea that's annoying.
00:17 eythian I wouldn't be so sure, they're not likely to just up and change it.
00:18 cait left #koha
00:29 jcamins mtj: just to make sure you're all clear, you're aware that your proposal boils down to entirely eliminating what has heretofore been called a "theme" in Koha, right?
00:29 jcamins *we're all clear
00:30 mtj and thats a bad thing? :)
00:30 mtj kidding!
00:32 mtj well... what was 'heretofore been called a "theme" in Koha' was a pretty problematic design
00:32 jcamins I can't say I care one way or the other, but I don't think it is right to couch the proposal in terms of "let's improve Koha's theming support" when the proposal is "let's eliminate Koha's theming support."
00:32 jcamins Because we could also simply remove all options for a "theme" and tell people to use a different opac.css and colors.css.
00:33 mtj i think my proposed redesign is not 'entirely eliminating' at all
00:34 jcamins Okay, just wanted to let you know how I interpreted the proposal.
00:34 jcamins I think reorganizing generally makes sense, though.
00:34 mtj its not eliminating it at all - it is improving it - nothing is lost
00:34 jcamins Other than the ability to customize anything other than CSS.
00:35 mtj ok, there's what  is lost, the includes dir
00:35 jcamins And module templates.
00:35 mtj ^^ thats lost already
00:36 jcamins It works fine.
00:36 jcamins We don't use them in CCSR because I spent several days integrating changes.
00:36 mtj ah, ok
00:37 mtj woah - so, you think its a step forward to maintain seperate module dirs, for each theme?
00:37 jcamins No.
00:38 jcamins I'm fine with eliminating it.
00:38 mtj hmm, ok - i may have misread you...
00:39 jcamins I just find it very problematic to describe it as if the proposed reorganization does not have significant functional repercussions.
00:39 mtj ok, so tell me a better way to do it?
00:41 jcamins A response saying "yes, I suggest that we eliminate the existing themes functionality that allows for differing templates between themes and replace it with CSS-only themes" would do it.
00:41 jcamins Just so that everyone understands what they're voting on.
00:42 mtj yep, thats pretty much what im suggesting :)
00:42 jcamins Then you should let people know. :)
00:43 mtj well, i did attempt too express all that
00:43 mtj my email
00:43 mtj sorry if you though i was not explicit enuff, about my idea
00:45 mtj i personally think that a theming design that was any more complex than custom css and images, would be too difficult to maintain
00:45 mtj … so i offer my idea of a redesign as an 'improvement'
00:46 jcamins It may well be an improvement, I don't dispute that.
00:47 jcamins But your e-mail makes it sound like our current themes can't do anything more than CSS at the moment either, which is why it troubled me.
00:47 jcamins At least, that's how I interpreted the e-mail.
00:48 mtj nope, our current themes allow us to do much more than css, and thats great!
00:48 mtj ...but its also a mainatainance nightmare
00:49 mtj the main point of my redesign to to fix that mainatainance 'problem'
00:50 jcamins Fair enough.
00:50 mtj there is no 'couching' from me
00:51 mtj i though i presented everything quite honestly
00:59 mtj jcamins, the thing i am curious about is.. afaik - both the PROG and CCSR themes can be maintained by their CSS alone
00:59 * dcook doesn't think that's quite the case atm
01:00 jcamins mtj: nope.
01:00 jcamins CCSR has different includes.
01:00 mtj wel, they have sperate include dirs
01:00 mtj yep, ok… that small point taken
01:00 jcamins Right, that's because they require different contents.
01:01 dcook Not that I overly want to get involved in the discussion, but I think jcamins has a point. It's worth mentioning that the directory re-structuring would allow for themes driven by CSS rather than CSS and content.
01:01 jcamins The separate include dir isn't *required*.
01:02 dcook khall mentioned the possibility of widgets at one point as well, which could be interesting in terms of customizability, but they would increase our use of javascript
01:02 dcook Unless we used includes as widgets..
01:02 mtj so that basic issue is... is it worth the hassle of having seperate include dirs, or not?
01:03 dcook mtj: I don't think jcamins is criticizing your idea. Rather, I think he's saying that you could just be a bit more explicit/comprehensive in your description
01:03 mtj the includes dir thing a feature, or a bug?
01:03 jcamins It's a feature, but not necessarily a good one.
01:04 mtj dcook, i have tried to be a explicit as i can!
01:04 jcamins Yeah, that e-mail is perfect.
01:04 jcamins Thanks.
01:05 mtj the accusation that i havent, is pretty offensive :/
01:05 * jcamins is sorry that he offended you.
01:05 jcamins That was not his intention.
01:06 mtj remember this is start of a discussion, pulled from my ass, on a sunday evening
01:08 mtj ok, no probs
01:09 mtj i have heard others recently saying, that a merging of the 2 themes, was a way forward...
01:10 mtj (owen and kyle?) -  i happen to agree, too
01:10 mtj so my redesign idea reflects that
01:11 jcamins I agree with taht.
01:11 jcamins *that
01:11 mtj so, jcamins is it a feature worth having?
01:11 jcamins I don't know. I certainly am not working on it anymore.
01:11 mtj ..the feature of seperate include dirs, per theme?
01:12 jcamins Right.
01:12 jcamins After the incredible volume of complaints about my volunteering my time to get CCSR working, I am not spending any of my time that is not *very* well recompensed on this sort of project.
01:13 mtj well, youve done a great job with the CCSR stuff, so far
01:14 jcamins Sure, but in hindsight, that was not a good use of my time. Koha could've done without a usable mobile interface another year or two longer.
01:15 jcamins So I'll offer a voice of support to any project that is moving forward, but nothing more than "attaboy."
01:16 mtj oh, when i said 'merging of the 2 themes' before ^^ , i meant 'sharing as much common code between all themes'
01:16 jcamins I know.
01:16 jcamins I thnk that's a laudable goal.
01:16 mtj just checking ;)
01:17 mtj see, before your time, koha had 2 themes… with nothing shared between them
01:18 mtj ...and we bumped into many problems :)
01:18 mtj as you might guess
01:18 jcamins Heh. Yes.
01:19 mtj a salesperson might describe that as a 'powerfully customisable feature'
01:19 jcamins lol
01:19 mtj but the reality was, it was a nitemare
01:20 * wizzyrea maintained two themes for a while. Nightmare doesn't really begin
01:21 mtj … so, i am speaking with some definite hindsight here, wrt: my current opinion on themes
01:21 jcamins As I said, I don't object to the proposal at all.
01:22 mtj ''powerfully customisable' themes are a bug, disguised as a feature
01:22 mtj cool
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01:31 mtj ok, so lets put that topic aside for a while… :p
01:39 wizzyrea does anyone else have trouble with the custom xslt stylesheets not loading the slimutils from a given URL?
01:40 wizzyrea as in, I have edited the xsl file to import from a url, the xsl file itself is coming from a 3rd party site.
01:40 jcamins wizzyrea: the one time I tried it, it worked. But that was only once.
01:40 jcamins And quite a while ago.
01:41 rangi  <-- tourists
01:41 wizzyrea I don't see a reason why this particular thing isn't working. It works with it given a path
01:41 wizzyrea (if both the file and the slimutils are local)
01:41 jcamins wizzyrea: ooh, wait... is this a recent git installation?
01:41 wizzyrea hm no
01:41 jcamins Hm.
01:41 wizzyrea packages actually
01:42 jcamins Okay, packages should work fine.
01:43 wizzyrea lolooool
01:44 wizzyrea anyway, the setup is like so - URL in the syspref https://dl.dropbox/therestofit
01:45 wizzyrea url in the xsl http://url-to-running/slimutils.xsl
01:45 wizzyrea but it claims it can't load it.
01:45 wizzyrea but I can get it with a web browser.
01:45 wizzyrea anyway, I'll keep poking at it.
01:45 eythian if that dropbox url is the one you're actually using, it won't work...
01:46 wizzyrea no
01:46 wizzyrea that's not the actual url
01:46 wizzyrea[…]tranetResults.xsl
01:46 eythian hmm. Possibly a cross-domain restriction?
01:46 wizzyrea maybe.
01:46 eythian (assuming the xslt parser implements that)
01:46 rangi its doing it in C4/XSLT right?
01:47 wizzyrea yea
01:47 rangi should be able to throw some warns in to find out
01:47 wizzyrea yep, i'm going to poke it
01:47 rangi i think its the https
01:47 eythian but you're pulling one file in from within another XSLT, right? So that might be internal to the parser.
01:47 eythian that's also possible, yeah
01:47 rangi ERROR: cannot verify's certificate, issued by `/C=US/O=GeoTrust, Inc./CN=RapidSSL CA': Unable to locally verify the issuer's authority.
01:47 rangi To connect to insecurely, use `--no-check-certificate'.
01:47 rangi if i wget https://library.plantandfood.c[…]RC21slimUtils.xsl
01:47 wizzyrea hmmmm
01:48 wizzyrea well also the url is just wrong. anyway, I'll figure it out
01:48 wizzyrea I really just wanted to know if anyone else had had that problem.
01:48 eythian also, what are you trying this from? is it a server that's firewalled?
01:49 wizzyrea since the consensus is "no it's just you, noob" it must be just me ;)
01:49 rangi yeah thats a intranet url on the opac :)
01:49 jcamins wizzyrea: I haven't tried recently, though.
01:49 rangi https://library.plantandfood.c[…]RC21slimUtils.xsl  <-- try that
01:49 wizzyrea the user will have to, I don't have access to the dropbox.
01:49 rangi ah ha
01:49 wizzyrea the file is public tho
01:49 rangi i suspect thats the problem since the thing 404s
01:50 wizzyrea I think there are several problem.s
01:50 rangi or put the intranet url
01:50 eythian the one I'd start with is that 404 though
01:50 jcamins wizzyrea: have you tested it with a remote stylesheet on your local VM?
01:50 wizzyrea actually, I've proved that the file itself is ok, given a slimutil url that works
01:51 rangi yep
01:51 rangi so they just need to fix that url
02:02 dcook Hmm, anyone familiar with the "ImportBreeding" sub?
02:02 dcook in
02:06 * dcook never really thought about terms like Fall 2013 being problematic until moving hemispheres..
02:09 jcamins dcook: what problem have you encountered?
02:09 dcook With dates or the sub?
02:09 dcook :p
02:10 jcamins The sub.
02:10 dcook No real problems per se
02:10 dcook The overwrite_biblio flag is...interesting though
02:10 dcook We check if the biblio is already in the database then in the breeding/import pool...but only stop the process if a certain overwrite_biblio flag is provided
02:11 dcook In the case of the z39.50 searching, we do those checks but bypass the results
02:11 dcook Mind you, the checks are just done for things like isbn/issn/title
02:11 dcook So it's always possible that you're actually wanting to bring in a newer bib...
02:12 jcamins Wow.
02:12 jcamins That's bizarre.
02:12 dcook Well, maybe not...
02:12 dcook If it's about showing results
02:13 jcamins I mean the $overwrite_biblio flag generally.
02:13 dcook Mmm, true taht
02:13 dcook that*
02:13 dcook Since I'm writing a new sub for importing z39.50 authorities. I don't necessarily just want to replicate existing code. Hence the scrutiny.
02:26 dcook Hmm. Perhaps I'll leave it for now and it can be up for discussion during testing
02:43 eythian dcook: that sub actually imports Marshall Breeding into your library.
02:43 dcook eythian: Before I opened the file, I totally thought that might be the case ;)
02:46 dcook I think I'm getting there...the search interface is working, the records are importing correctly into the DB...
02:46 dcook Just need to import them into the edit authority form and maybe make a flag in the z39.50 server table to distinguish between authority and bibliographic databases
03:37 dcook Yay! It's alive!!!
03:38 dcook eythian: I have a few more changes to make, but I should have a testable version of the z39.50 authority searching up tomorrow :)
03:38 eythian nice
03:38 dcook Feedback/testing would be more than welcome :)
03:40 eythian I might be able to do a little bit of that. Though it'd be worth a post to the list, probably a bit of interest in this sort of thing.
03:42 dcook Yeah, we've had a few people express an interest in it. I think the function is there, but the code could probably be optimized.
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03:48 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
03:49 * dcook waves
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04:19 eythian wahanui: cooking help is
04:19 wahanui OK, eythian.
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04:28 zebran00b anybody familiar with CPAN?
04:30 eythian Yes, kinda...
04:33 zebran00b it looks like I installed CPAN under root and that's why isn't running properly under kohauser
04:33 zebran00b its not really a CPAN issue so much as a permissions issue
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04:34 zebran00b so I'm trying to figure out if I need to edit the sudoer env_keep option or something else
04:34 eythian what platform are you on?
04:34 eythian and exactly what errors are you seeing?
04:35 zebran00b Debian, Koha 3.10
04:35 eythian then why are you messing with cpan?
04:35 zebran00b when I run manually as kohauser, it says Can't locate Koha/ in @INC
04:35 eythian that has nothing to do with cpan.
04:36 eythian That's most likely a perl path issue.
04:36 eythian are you running from git?
04:36 zebran00b I think so
04:36 eythian OK. so, what's the command you're running that gives you that error?
04:37 zebran00b ./home/koha/misc/migration_tools/ -z -b -a
04:38 eythian OK, so you have Koha installed into /home/koha then, so you need to tell Perl that it's there.
04:38 eythian so like:
04:38 eythian PERL5LIB=/home/koha /home/koha/misc/migration....
04:38 eythian (and don't have the '.' in front of the path, that'll make things weird and you don't want that.)
04:39 eythian all this said, I would recommend that you use the packages unless you're planning on doing development.
04:39 eythian it takes care of all the paths for you
04:39 zebran00b where do I change the PATH? And if I install the package, how do I uninstall everything?
04:40 zebran00b understood about the .
04:40 eythian If you want to uninstall what you've done, you undo whatever you've done to get where you are.
04:42 zebran00b Where do I add PERL5LIB=/home/koha /home/koha/misc/migration_tools?
04:43 eythian no, the ... was to indicate that it's just continuing what you already have
04:44 eythian so where you're typing the command you gave, instead you tpye the command I gave you.
04:44 eythian It'll probably have another error, but I'd have to see it to know how to change things next.
04:45 zebran00b ah, got it
04:45 zebran00b ran it, no errors
04:46 eythian that surprises me. Did it give you output that was meaningful?
04:46 zebran00b but on the other hand, updates aren't appearing in search
04:46 zebran00b zero output
04:46 eythian actually, maybe it needs -v to give output
04:46 zebran00b just a new command line
04:46 eythian run it with -v, see what that says.
04:47 zebran00b Zebra configuration information ================================ Zebra biblio directory      = /var/lib/koha/zebradb/biblios Zebra authorities directory = /var/lib/koha/zebradb/authorities Koha directory              = /usr/share/koha/intranet/cgi-bin BIBLIONUMBER in :     999$c BIBLIOITEMNUMBER in : 999$d ================================ ==================== exporting authority ====================  Records exported: 0  Records exported: 0 =================
04:47 zebran00b I added a new record, and I know if I run under root, that new record will be indexed and appear in search results. But it doesn't if I rebuild_zebra under root.
04:48 zebran00b sorry, it doesn't if I rebuild under *kohauser*
04:48 zebran00b mistyped that last word
04:48 eythian ah right
04:48 eythian is that all of the output?
04:48 eythian it doesn't did biblios as well?
04:48 eythian use this:
04:48 eythian wahanui: paste
04:48 wahanui I eat paste! It's tasty!
04:49 pastebot "zebran00b" at pasted "PERL5LIB=/home/koha /home/koha/misc/migration_tools/ -z -b -a -v" (31 lines) at
04:50 eythian OK, so you have no records in your database according to this
04:50 eythian are you sure you don't have multiple koha-conf.xml files pointing to multiple databases, and sometimes you use one, sometimes you use another?
04:50 zebran00b there's actually two, one of which is already indexed and appears in search, but it was indexed under root (discovering that's where permissions seem to be working)
04:51 eythian wait
04:51 eythian get right of -z
04:51 eythian err
04:51 wizzyrea rid*
04:51 eythian get rid
04:51 zebran00b so -b -a -v?
04:51 eythian yeah
04:51 eythian -z is saying to only do new stuff
04:52 pastebot "zebran00b" at pasted "PERL5LIB=/home/koha /home/koha/misc/migration_tools/ -b -a -v" (27 lines) at
04:53 zebran00b very interesting
04:53 zebran00b new record still doesn't show up in OPAC search results
04:53 eythian that's more like what I'd expect
04:54 zebran00b but 2 exported now
04:54 eythian you do have your zebra daemon running?
04:54 zebran00b I believe so - how do I check that again?
04:54 eythian ps ax|grep zebra
04:55 pastebot "zebran00b" at pasted "ps ax|grep zebra" (3 lines) at
04:55 zebran00b that look right?
04:56 eythian yeah
04:56 eythian what user are you running as now?
04:56 eythian and what's the result of 'echo $KOHA_CONF'?
04:56 zebran00b current koha
04:57 eythian like, that's what comes out if you type out 'whoami'?
04:57 zebran00b whoami=koha, echo $KOHA_CONF results in a blank line!
04:58 eythian ok, the user is good, but the KOHA_CONF thing is weird
04:58 eythian you should get an error from rebuild_zebra if that's not set.
04:59 zebran00b so KOHA_CONF is set under root but not koha?
04:59 eythian well, when you ran the rebuild before, you ran it as koha right?
04:59 zebran00b yes
04:59 eythian and it clearly worked out where your koha-conf is, as it outputs the path to it
04:59 zebran00b everything during this discussion is under koha
04:59 zebran00b yup
05:00 eythian ah wait
05:00 eythian what does 'locate koha-conf.xml' give you?
05:01 zebran00b locate koha-conf.xml
05:01 zebran00b locate: can not stat () `/var/lib/mlocate/mlocate.db': No such file or directory
05:01 eythian oh
05:01 eythian then run 'sudo updatedb'
05:02 zebran00b done
05:02 eythian now try the locate again
05:02 pastebot "zebran00b" at pasted "locate koha-conf.xml" (4 lines) at
05:02 zebran00b much better
05:03 eythian yeah. so you have two koha-conf files. I wonder if that's confusing things. Which one does the web side use?
05:04 zebran00b that's an excellent question!
05:04 eythian this said, I expect the zebra daemon and the rebuild-zebra to be using the same one.
05:04 eythian but it'd pay to check.
05:05 zebran00b was Koha installed twice? Should it have directories both in /etc/ and /home/?
05:05 zebran00b we're only trying to run a single instance here
05:05 eythian well, it's not uncommon. It looks like you've done an install and are also running things out of the directory you installed from. But it's hard to be sure.
05:06 * eythian recommends the packages because this is all done for you.
05:07 zebran00b yeah, I think I may just delete the whole Debian profile on my server and start from zero
05:08 eythian I can go from blank to up and running in about 30 minutes, most of which is waiting for downloads and installs.
05:08 eythian Mind you, I have done this a few times :)
05:08 eythian (using the packages, that is)
05:08 eythian it's a good time to experiment if you don't have real data in there.
05:09 zebran00b once I have LAMP running, do I need to install anything perl-related prior to using the package, or is that all baked in?
05:10 zebran00b I'm looking at and it doesn't go into prerequisites
05:10 eythian you just follow the instructions on the wiki. It's just installing koha-common and mysql-server if you want a local db server.
05:10 eythian it's because packages do that for you
05:11 zebran00b right, but I need to create a mySQL database and set up Apache before I run it
05:11 eythian nope
05:11 zebran00b really? just plain old Debian?
05:11 eythian once you've got the packages installed, you do need to a2enmod rewrite
05:12 eythian and make a file with your settings
05:12 eythian but that's about it.
05:12 eythian koha-create creates your database, sets up permissions, configures apache, etc.
05:12 zebran00b cool
05:14 eythian you need to set up some DNS to point to your server, maybe tweak the apache settings if you want something custom, but that's about it.
05:14 eythian also, there are a bunch of 'koha-*' commands to handle common tasks
05:16 eythian mtj: 3.6 is not packaged.
05:17 zebran00b nice, thanks. We'll wipe the slate and run the package. Thanks for all the help - don't be surprised if I'm here again later this week, though.
05:17 eythian sure thing :)
05:20 eythian @marc 999$c
05:20 huginn` eythian: unknown tag 999$c
05:20 eythian hmph
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05:25 cait good morning #koha
05:33 cait hm
05:33 cait quiet :)
05:34 cjh morning cait :)
05:35 cait evening cjh :)
05:37 cait mailinglists
05:37 wahanui mailinglists are mailing list.
05:37 cait mailing list
05:37 wahanui i think mailing list is at[…]ha-mailing-lists/
05:39 cjh and its home time, night #koha
05:40 eythian hi cait
05:41 cait hi eythian
05:42 cait still raining?
05:42 cait probably going to regret that mail
05:42 eythian hmm, I can't tell. I think it's eased off a bit. Windy with chance of earthquakes at the moment mostly.
05:43 cait ah right, I saw wizzyrea's comment on facebook
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06:45 reiveune hello
06:45 wahanui bonjour, reiveune
06:45 asaurat hi
06:45 alex_a bonjour
06:48 jajm hello
06:48 wahanui hey, jajm
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06:56 * magnuse waves
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07:09 gaetan_B hello :)
07:10 magnuse bonjour gaetan_B
07:16 magnuse ooh, new release of DBIx::Class with good speed improvements! http://jjnapiorkowski.typepad.[…]-super-speed.html#.UYdYghxShhk
07:17 marcelr joined #koha
07:17 marcelr hi #koha
07:19 magnuse hiya marcelr
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07:26 marcelr hi magnuse
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07:41 huginn` GERMS!!!!
07:41 wahanui it has been said that germs is
07:42 kf good morning to you wahanui
07:46 marcelr hi kf
07:47 kf hi marcelr :)
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08:09 mtj kf, just replied u :)
08:09 mtj eythian, did you ping me before?
08:10 mtj <eythian> [17:16:04] mtj: 3.6 is not packaged.
08:13 kf mtj: I am still not sure I understand you
08:13 kf and I am pro keeping the logic we just repaired
08:13 kf if someone wantst o take it up to use their own templates - it shoudl be their choice
08:14 kf and the community doesn't have a problem at all, as long as we don't support 2 themes officially
08:14 mtj ok, if people are ok with that… then i'm ok with that too :)
08:15 rangi im ok with a policy of supporting one theme officially and letting people do their own
08:15 rangi we have a kids theme
08:15 kf rangi: that's a cool eample why we shoudl keep it
08:16 rangi the thing that works well, is it is like the languages
08:16 rangi it falls back
08:16 rangi so you only need to change the little bits you want
08:17 kf yeah
08:17 rangi and id like to extend it so people can pick their theme int he opac, as well as language
08:17 kf I can imagina a library with some special use case that wants to change a page like th request page or similar
08:17 rangi so you can switch the opacs in the kids room to the kids theme etc
08:17 kf rangi++
08:18 rangi you can do lots with css
08:18 rangi but not quite everything
08:18 rangi when we run html5 everywhere maybe
08:19 kf yeah but I still think it will always be a bit limited in some ways, why destroy a feature we just got back to work nicely?
08:19 rangi im all for not supporting more than one officially tho
08:19 rangi because that does get hard fast
08:19 mtj hey…so someone reply to my email, and tell me to shut the f*ck up, please? :)
08:19 magnuse one theme to rule them all!
08:19 * rangi does :)
08:20 mtj cheers, very much appreciated!
08:22 mtj well, heres another good idea re: themes…. for those themes that want to, they could *choose* to symlink to the offical theme
08:22 rangi hmm what for?
08:23 kf mtj: it already falls back
08:23 rangi *nod*
08:23 kf you don't need symlinking
08:23 mtj aaah, ok
08:23 mtj problem solved
08:23 kf if you don't provide your own version of the template file, it uses the prog one
08:23 rangi you can make a theme that includes precisely one template
08:23 kf that's why it's a cool feature and probably useful :)
08:23 mtj aah, i never knew that
08:23 rangi its like the languages
08:24 rangi if it can't find one it falls back to en
08:24 magnuse that does sound excellent
08:24 rangi its useful for just changing images and stuff
08:25 mtj lol, that actually solves a bunch of my 'perceived' theme problems
08:25 rangi so you can different itemtype images for different themes
08:25 rangi which you cant do with css
08:25 rangi ie nice cartoon itemtype images for the kids etc
08:26 rangi you could do with jquery i guess, but youd slow the page down
08:26 drojf oh look, a themes discussion :)
08:26 cjh that is so cool
08:27 cjh having a theme depend on the logged in user or chosen branch sounds amazing.
08:28 drojf one theme per user! ;)
08:29 rangi yeah just need a cookie, just like the language easy peasy
08:29 rangi i just havent got round to it
08:29 marcelr where do we actually say which theme is the officially supported one btw?
08:29 cjh drojf: I really meant the user's category, but that isn't impossible :)
08:29 drojf cjh: i know :)
08:29 cjh drojf: I would be very impressed if my library had a theme just for me xD
08:30 drojf that would be cool, right?
08:30 drojf based on your borrowed books maybe :D
08:30 cjh and a header with my name is big bold letters
08:31 rangi heh
08:32 mtj ive been holding off submitting an OPAC theme for a while, coz i was dreading all the duplication fail
08:32 rangi even the ccsr only has a few includes different
08:32 mtj … but its nice to discover the fall-thru thing, today
08:32 rangi check it out
08:33 rangi 5 includes and some css
08:34 rangi so most opac changes mean you only have to change prog
08:34 rangi its quite cool like that
08:35 drojf mtj: thanks for answering me on the mailing list :D
08:35 drojf multichannel_communication++
08:35 rangi marcelr: we did a long time ago with the prog theme, but im not sure its written anywhere now
08:36 mtj tho, ftw, the 'lib' stuff could be moved up to a shared top-level dir?
08:36 rangi yup
08:37 rangi that would fix that for languages too, i think there is a bug/patch for that already
08:38 mtj drojf, no problemo ^^
08:42 mtj i guess that other thing to do would be to update the prog includes dir, with the ccsr mobile stuff
08:43 mtj would be nice for the offical opac theme, to have some responsive stuff, too
08:43 magnuse i think oleonard is working on merging prog and ccsr?
08:43 drojf yeah i think that is already happening :)
08:43 mtj snap
08:43 drojf or at least planned
08:44 magnuse oh, he's working on it
08:44 drojf have a best-of-both-worlds theme
08:44 * magnuse has seen screenshots
08:45 kf mtj: he showed screenshots and said he got cart working... so I think for 3.14 :)
08:47 mtj yeah, i saw some last week too - they looked awesome
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08:48 kf and using bootstrap, so i guess even better than the ccsr
08:49 kf well, in getting rid of yui that is :)
08:51 cjh \o/
08:55 marcelr rangi: yeah, i think we should say somewhere "this is the main theme" :)
09:01 magnuse isn't the main theme just the one you get by default when you install?
09:01 marcelr should be
09:02 kf i think as we will probably remove the ccsr separate option, there might be no need to specify
09:02 kf if there is only one in the pulldown by default
09:03 kf and we could amend the description of the pref for some next release to make it clerer how it works
09:03 magnuse does anyone have experience with huge numbers of items in koha? like 1400 attached to one record for one library, and 4000 total for that record?
09:04 marcelr kf: yes, we should write it in the pref descr too
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09:12 marcelr kf: opacthemes just shows all theme folders it finds
09:13 kf marcelr: true :) just meant one is going ot go away again at some time
09:13 drojf magnuse: 4000 items for one record?? what kind of record/item is that?
09:15 magnuse drojf: it's a consortium of schools, so there would be one book per student/pupil
09:17 drojf oh, i see
09:24 kf magnuse: maybe just try?
09:24 kf magnuse: you could add the items quite easily ai guess with the duplicate feature
09:25 magnuse yeah, that was not a problem at all
09:26 magnuse but now i get "zero items" in the opac...
09:26 kf hm andno link to show more?
09:26 kf i know that when there are more than x it doesn't show them all
09:26 kf if someone broke the link that would be bac
09:26 kf bad
09:32 magnuse hm, there is something weird with my demo install
09:32 magnuse all the books say no copies available
09:32 magnuse but they do show on the marc detail view
09:32 magnuse was there a bug about that?
09:34 rangi they all have a branch/itemtype set?
09:34 magnuse it was my public demo, so maybe someone experimented with the opac suppression stuff
09:34 magnuse trying another instance now
09:34 rangi ah yeah
09:35 rangi if you turn that on without one item being suppressed it does that
09:36 kf magnuse: for the school - maybe try out the new prefs for separate holdings
09:36 kf that should help a bit organising the items
09:38 magnuse ah yes, i get the "click here to see all" link when i try another instance
09:39 magnuse there are new prefs for separate holdings?
09:39 kf yes in 3.12
09:39 magnuse ah found it
09:39 kf separate tabs for your logged in branch items and the other items
09:39 magnuse only works for logged in users, though
09:39 kf yeah, but it's still nice I guess
09:40 kf and maybe you could enhance it to take an URL parameter?
09:40 kf or cookie?
09:40 wahanui The cookie jar is on the RM's desk, so you'd better ask him about that.
09:40 magnuse that reminds me: it would be nice if you could 1) choose your branch without logging in 2) have links that choose the "active" branch when you click on them
09:43 magnuse (so when you click on a special link you get a cookie that sets your chosen library - similar to how it works for languages, i guess)
09:44 magnuse and that should automatically limit searches to your chosen library too
09:44 magnuse hm...
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09:57 kf can we get a sign off on our newest evil blocker bug?
09:58 kf bug 10185
09:58 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10185 blocker, P5 - low, ---, julian.maurice, Needs Signoff , remove all reserves
09:58 kf it also contains a fix to not kill all suspended holds on update
10:19 magnuse 1400 items on one record does not seem to be a big problem, btw. it takes a while to display the whole list, of course, but circ seems to be the same speed as "ordinary" records
10:19 magnuse so hooray for getting the items out of the marcxml! :-)
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11:48 kf hm no drojf
11:48 kf @later tell drojf ping me
11:48 huginn` kf: The operation succeeded.
11:48 NateC Hello everyone
11:48 magnuse kia ora NateC
11:48 NateC sup magnuse!
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11:49 magnuse wassaaap!
11:49 christophe_c hello #koha
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12:13 oleonard Hi #koha
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12:20 kf hi oleonard :)
12:34 kf oleonard++ the screenshots look awesome :)
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12:40 oleonard Speaking of OPAC directory structure, why do we now have a "text" directory with a single template in it? And a "search" one with another single template?
12:41 kf oleonard: ugh?
12:41 kf what is in text?
12:41 kf because it's probably not translatable
12:42 jcamins The text directory is translatable.
12:42 kf wher is it?
12:42 jcamins Or, at least, it was when we tested it.
12:42 kf wanted to take a look :)
12:42 jcamins in modules.
12:43 kf ah
12:43 kf it's not really text
12:43 kf it's in TT things
12:43 jcamins oleonard: we have the text directory because we needed somewhere to put non-HTML text for translation.
12:43 kf that could be translatable
12:43 jcamins And I have no idea what the search directory is for.
12:43 kf i will have to recheck
12:44 kf hm wonder where that is used
12:44 kf title="Search for works by this author" < looks unfamiliar
12:45 jcamins ?
12:45 kf oh something with bookbags?
12:45 jcamins Oh, I see where you're looking.
12:45 kf[…]0f251b13de5e4c773
12:45 jcamins I suspect it's part of the solr "support" BibLibre added.
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12:50 oleonard jcamins: What does it matter that it's non-HTML if it's a template like the others?
12:50 tcohen morning #koha
12:50 jcamins oleonard: it's not accessed through C4::Templates so it made sense to me to separate it from the ones that are.
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12:58 Joubu jcamins, kf: yep, opac/ and the tt/search dir are introduced by the Solr draft.
12:58 oleonard Joubu: Why keep it separate from other templates?
13:00 huginn` New commit(s) kohagit: Merge branch 'master' of git:// into 3.14-master <[…]1794674b3e7ee9da7> / Merge branch 'bug_8896' into 3.14-master <[…]8789b083868b7040b> / Bug 8896 QA Followup for regex <[…]ha.git;a=commitdi
13:00 Joubu It seemed better to have a specific directory for templates related to search
13:02 Joubu oleonard: I could not add my changes to the existing
13:03 oleonard I think it would make more sense to start putting search results template stuff into includes which can be added to "Normal," "grouped," "Solr," etc.
13:08 jenkins_koha Starting build #25 for job Koha_3.12.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
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13:18 oleonard jcamins++ # For adding a follow-up to Bug 10166 and for having the optimism to think someone might someday fix the maxholds issue
13:18 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10166 major, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Master , Can't place holds on multiple titles if one or more are un-holdable
13:23 kf oleonard: is there a bug for that? or is it the longtanding maxreserves one?
13:24 oleonard Bug 8238
13:24 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8238 critical, P5 - low, ---, koha.sekjal, NEW , Hold limits broken
13:24 oleonard Bug 4045
13:24 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4045 critical, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, In Discussion , No check for maximum number of allowed holds.
13:24 oleonard Not sure why 8238 exists, and didn't notice 4045 was "in discussion" now
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13:30 druthb o/
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13:38 kf @query maxreserves
13:38 huginn` kf: Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6976 major, P1 - high, ---, colin.campbell, REOPENED , User hold limit can be avoided by users in OPAC
13:38 huginn` kf: Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7710 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle.m.hall, Needs Signoff , multiple holds per title
13:38 huginn` kf: Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4045 critical, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, Failed QA , No check for maximum number of allowed holds.
13:38 kf oleonard: probably also 6976
13:39 magnuse bug 6976
13:39 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6976 major, P1 - high, ---, colin.campbell, REOPENED , User hold limit can be avoided by users in OPAC
13:44 oleonard In short: Hold limits busted.
13:44 kf yep
13:44 kf ever since maxreserves was added to circ matrix :(
13:47 jenkins_koha Project Koha_3.12.x build #25: SUCCESS in 39 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]b/Koha_3.12.x/25/
13:47 jenkins_koha * Karam Qubsi: Bug 10176: Solve the Invalid URLs in 'Refine Search Results' when it uses UNICODE symbols
13:47 jenkins_koha * Jonathan Druart: Bug 10183: Remove single pixel on the serials collection page
13:47 jenkins_koha * Owen Leonard: Bug 10166 - Can't place holds on multiple titles if one or more are un-holdable
13:47 jenkins_koha * Jared Camins-Esakov: Bug 10166: Increment holdable counter
13:47 jenkins_koha * Lyon3 Team: Bug 8896: Delete serials no more missing from missinglist
13:47 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10176 major, P5 - low, ---, karamqubsi, Pushed to Master , Invalid URLs in 'Refine Search Results' when it uses UNICODE symbols
13:47 jenkins_koha * Marcel de Rooy: Bug 8896 QA Followup for regex
13:47 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10183 normal, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to Master , Serials collection table is displayed with a single pixel before and after
13:47 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10166 major, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Master , Can't place holds on multiple titles if one or more are un-holdable
13:47 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8896 normal, P5 - low, ---, koha, Pushed to Master , Delete serials no more missing from missinglist
13:48 jenkins_koha Starting build #1164 for job Koha_master (previous build: SUCCESS)
13:53 tcohen quick question, koha-create --usedb expects the DB stuff being already created, right (or at least that should be the behaviour)
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14:14 gmcharlt @quote random
14:14 huginn` gmcharlt: Quote #30: "< pianohacker> Dealing with me can indeed be painful" (added by chris at 09:34 PM, September 02, 2009)
14:14 gmcharlt tcohen: I believe so
14:14 oleonard gmcharlt: You always seem to get the pianohacker quotes
14:17 tcohen hmm, no gmcharlt, looks like the only way we can create an instance without koha-create trying to create the db user and the db is the two-step --request-db then --populate-db
14:19 gmcharlt tcohen: looks like --create creates the db + user; --use doesn't create the db but does create the user
14:20 gmcharlt and yes, --populate-db assumes that by db + dbuser are in plae
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14:27 jcamins kf: actually, maxreserves broke before it was added to the circ matrix.
14:27 jcamins So... at least we're consistent?
14:28 kf oh yay ;)
14:40 oleonard Would changes to a link URL be okay after string freeze? Bug 10201
14:40 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10201 major, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, ASSIGNED , Old OPAC patron update system should be removed
14:40 jcamins Yes.
14:41 oleonard Good, I hope this bug has a chance. I'll submit a patch today.
14:42 oleonard There is a reference to in but it doesn't look like it really does anything. Not sure what to do with it.
14:43 jcamins oleonard: one clarification: when you say that you want to change a link URL, you're talking about a 1-line change, right?
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14:44 oleonard One line in, one line in
14:44 jcamins Right.
14:44 jcamins Thanks.
14:47 oleonard Whoops, two lines in
14:48 jcamins But each change is 1-line only.
14:48 oleonard Yes
14:49 jcamins We'll test- I am convinced that it does not cause any string changes, but always good to be safe.
14:50 oleonard jcamins: How do you think I should handle the reference to in
14:51 jcamins oleonard: ummm...
14:51 jcamins why's it there?
14:51 oleonard Part of "my ( $template, $borrowernumber, $cookie ) = get_template_and_user("
14:51 oleonard But the script doesn't output to any template
14:51 jcamins Ohh.
14:51 jcamins I understand.
14:52 jcamins It should be replaced with the appropriate authentication call.
14:52 jcamins C4::Auth::check_cookie_auth
14:52 jcamins Or something like that.
14:59 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #1164: SUCCESS in 1 hr 11 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]Koha_master/1164/
14:59 jenkins_koha * Karam Qubsi: Bug 10176: Solve the Invalid URLs in 'Refine Search Results' when it uses UNICODE symbols
14:59 jenkins_koha * Jonathan Druart: Bug 10183: Remove single pixel on the serials collection page
14:59 jenkins_koha * Owen Leonard: Bug 10166 - Can't place holds on multiple titles if one or more are un-holdable
14:59 jenkins_koha * Jared Camins-Esakov: Bug 10166: Increment holdable counter
14:59 jenkins_koha * Lyon3 Team: Bug 8896: Delete serials no more missing from missinglist
14:59 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10176 major, P5 - low, ---, karamqubsi, Pushed to Master , Invalid URLs in 'Refine Search Results' when it uses UNICODE symbols
14:59 jenkins_koha * Marcel de Rooy: Bug 8896 QA Followup for regex
14:59 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10183 normal, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to Master , Serials collection table is displayed with a single pixel before and after
14:59 huginn` Bug[…]_bug.cgi?id=10166 major, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Master , Can't place holds on multiple titles if one or more are un-holdable
14:59 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8896 normal, P5 - low, ---, koha, Pushed to Master , Delete serials no more missing from missinglist
14:59 jcamins Is anyone going to point out to this thread that Koha doesn't do anything special with ISBNs?
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15:13 reiveune bye
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15:17 oleonard Is the "borrow" permission used for anything?
15:17 nengard i too wonder this ...
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15:35 kf oleonard: should be easy to find out I think
15:36 oleonard gmcharlt: I don't know anything about Debian Bootstrap packages, nor how they might interact with the new theme.
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15:37 gmcharlt oleonard: fair enough
15:37 oleonard gmcharlt: Did you have something in mind?
15:37 gmcharlt I expect that can be attended to later; mainly I want to make sure that (assuming we use the Debian packages) that less tweaking is needed as compared to how we use YUI
15:38 gmcharlt but that doesn't, I think, materially affect how you would go about with your work on the new theme
15:38 kf hm
15:38 kf maybe someone has an idea
15:38 kf i have a repeatable subfield
15:39 kf and I want to generate a list wich all values for this subfield using an sql report
15:39 kf the problem is that ExtractValue always gives me all of them in one line... so i have a completely unusable list showing all the possible combinations
15:43 tcohen mysql sucks for that kf, you need a function to split it
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15:49 kf tcohen: meh
15:49 kf tcohen: i need a list of those codes
15:49 kf and only have sql right now
15:50 kf oh well.
15:51 maximep there's no SPLIT function in mysql ? so weird :S
15:54 kf cookies for anyone coming up with a solution? ;)
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15:57 jcamins maximep: it's a relational database. If you're SPLITing things, you're doing it wrong.
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16:04 gaetan_B bye !
16:07 tcohen question: currently an arbitrary instance name can be provided to koha-create
16:07 tcohen the problem with it is that both DB name and DB user have a lenght limit in MySQL
16:07 tcohen (64 and 16 respectively)
16:08 tcohen catching the db name length problem is straightforwrd
16:08 tcohen but the db usr name built from the instance name
16:08 tcohen should we impose a limit on the instance name?
16:09 tcohen automatic truncation could lead to user name collision...
16:09 jcamins tcohen: yes, I think imposing a limit is reasonable.
16:09 tcohen 11 chars limit actually
16:11 jcamins tcohen: given that Koha won't work with an instance with a longer name as it is, I see no problem with simply rejecting longer instance names.
16:13 oleonard Why are patron images stored based on card number rather than borrowernumber?
16:13 jcamins oleonard: no idea, but it sounds wrong.
16:14 tcohen oleonard: that sound bad
16:15 oleonard It works, anyway. Card number changes propagate to the patronimage table, but that seems unnecessary
16:15 oleonard Oh well.
16:16 kf oleonard: maybe the idea was that.. um. you don't know which number the patron ends up with and they had a file of cardnumbers and photos?
16:16 kf but it could still be stored in a sane way...
16:16 jcamins Actually, that makes perfect sense.
16:16 oleonard Yeah, that's probably it kf
16:16 jcamins Well done, kf!
16:17 kf i get suspicious when you 2 agree like that
16:18 kf btw - we really made koha lots prettier since 3.6 :)
16:18 kf working with old 3.6 today and missing lots of buttons and links
16:21 kf jcamins++
16:21 jcamins \o/
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16:37 kf drojf is still not here... tsk.
16:45 tcohen jcamins, there's no rush for what I sent u
16:46 jcamins Good, because I haven't even seen it. :P
16:47 tcohen i pretend to use u as a idiomatic validator heh
16:47 jcamins :)
16:47 tcohen not big deal anyway
17:06 magnuse tcohen: bug 7428
17:06 huginn` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7428 minor, P5 - low, ---, robin, NEW , koha-create should check for length of instancename
17:07 kf tcohen++ btw :)
17:07 magnuse yeah tcohen++ totally!
17:08 tcohen magnuse: did the checks already in the revisited script
17:13 magnuse tcohen: mark 7428 as a duplicate of your bug?
17:13 tcohen ok, haven't filled it yet
17:14 tcohen ^o)
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17:33 jcamins drojf: kf has been waiting for you all day, and you sign in ten minutes after she leaves?!?
17:34 jcamins Very sneaky.
17:34 * druthb gets the duct tape, to keep drojf in place until cait comes in.
17:35 drojf oh .( i didn't know
17:36 drojf :(
17:36 jcamins drojf: that looked like a wink to me. :P
17:36 drojf heh
17:38 drojf i'd see it more as "i sign on ten minutes before cait arrives" :)
17:39 drojf i could fall asleep before she arrives though. i accidentally got up at 5am
17:40 jcamins Accidentally?
17:40 drojf i did not close the curtains properly and it gets light outside pretty early these days. could not sleep in again after that
17:40 jcamins Ah.
17:42 drojf funny that i have just been to the asian market but i have to come here to remember i could have looked for rice flour :D maybe next time
17:42 jcamins drojf: :(
17:42 jcamins Rice flour is yummy!
17:42 jcamins Well, tasteless, actually.
17:44 drojf i still have some. but now i also got sweet potato vermicelli and tapioca vermicelli
17:45 drojf i hope i like the sweet potato ones, the package is huge :D
17:49 drojf now i'm curious what kf wanted. i hope i did not break the translation or something
17:51 drojf and i wonder what i'm going to do with that shrimp paste i bought out of curiosity
17:53 jcamins drojf: Shrim paste casserole?
17:53 jcamins *Shrimp
17:54 drojf it says "may contain fish" :D
17:56 druthb lol
17:57 * Dyrcona has a jar of peanuts that says "May contain nuts."
17:58 drojf it's always good to know ;)
17:58 jcamins Dyrcona: well, technically, aren't peanuts not nuts?
17:58 jcamins Yes.
17:58 jcamins They are legumes.
17:58 Dyrcona jcamins: Maybe, but people with nut allergies seem to allergic to them, too.
17:59 jcamins I know people with allergies to tree nuts, and I know people with allergies to peanuts, but I'm not sure I know anyone with allergies to both.
17:59 jcamins And shrimp technically isn't a fish either.
17:59 drojf true
17:59 jcamins So, useful warnings!
17:59 jcamins :P
18:00 drojf i was not sure if you would call it fish in english. and if they mean the shrimp-fish or some by-catch
18:03 cait joined #koha
18:03 * cait glares at drojf ;)
18:04 * drojf hides
18:04 cait so ne komische anfrage aus berlin
18:04 cait oh :)
18:04 cait oups
18:04 drojf lol
18:05 cait hehe :)
18:05 drojf log cleaner please ;)
18:05 jcamins Google translate doesn't make much sense of that.
18:05 cait lol
18:06 cait it's a secret
18:06 cait ;)
18:06 cait not really
18:06 druthb An un-funny request from berlin?
18:08 cait no actually just a request
18:17 tcohen can I move from mysql to mysqladmin for administrative stuff?
18:17 cait hm?
18:17 tcohen both are distributed via mysql-client package
18:17 tcohen on koha-create
18:17 tcohen we do things like
18:18 jcamins cait: drojf: is this capitalized properly: Der Raum der Worte: polnische Avantgarde und Malerbücher 1919–1990.
18:18 tcohen mysql <long opts line> <<EOF multiline SQL sentences EOF
18:18 cait capitalized wonderfully
18:18 drojf yes
18:18 tcohen we could do
18:18 cait when are you moving to germany?
18:18 drojf what cait says
18:18 tcohen mysql --create-db name
18:19 tcohen I meant: mysqladmin create name
18:19 cait tcohen: no idea here - sorry :(
18:19 tcohen np, I doing some research on better error handling
18:20 tcohen i'll read the docs anyway, looking for shortcuts :-D
18:26 jcamins cait: drojf: Ein Balken quer über der Strasse, Kurzprosa und Gedichte <-- what is ein Balken?
18:26 jcamins In this context.
18:26 cait um
18:26 cait a log... maybe?
18:26 cait spire? i have to look it up, i am only guessing
18:26 cait ok, ntotally not spire
18:27 cait oh
18:27 cait beam
18:27 cait of course
18:27 cait *sigh*
18:27 cait sorry, tired brain
18:28 drojf well it's poetry, it could be everything ;)
18:29 jcamins Thanks.
18:29 jcamins That was actually a German translation of a title in Polish that I couldn't figure out.
18:30 cait ok?
18:30 drojf but translating from polish to english was too easy?
18:30 jcamins drojf: I couldn't figure out what the Polish words were.
18:30 jcamins It was in Futurist orthography.
18:30 jcamins (i.e. the spelling was made up)
18:31 drojf ah, so that translation was an "official" one of the german version
18:31 drojf not by google or something
18:31 drojf ?
18:33 jcamins Right.
18:39 drojf jcamins: "the feeling in the mouth slides crispily". is that english? :D
18:39 jcamins The words are. :P
18:39 oleonard :D
18:39 drojf hehe
18:40 * druthb blinks, and fails her Confusing saving throw.
18:42 oleonard It's Dadaist poetry night in #koha!
18:44 drojf i can read you the whole book of "sweet potato width vermicelli" if you like
18:46 mtompset joined #koha
18:46 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
18:47 mtompset How was the version of Test::WWW::Mechanize chosen? The default Ubuntu 12.04 version is only 1.36 vs. the suggested 1.44.
18:49 jcamins mtompset: I think it was just the version in Debian.
18:49 * druthb blames jcamins.  Justified or not, he's to blame.
18:49 jcamins The good news is, that's optional.
18:50 mtompset True enough.
18:50 * mtompset grins at druthb.
18:51 mtompset Now, now. Don't go blaming jcamins for a default version in Debian vs. Ubuntu, druthb. :P
18:54 mtompset Oh, as Paul P pointed out, wheezy is out. How will that affect the repository names?
18:55 * druthb blames jcamins for All The Things!
19:00 * oleonard pats his UPS affectionately and wonders how much longer the power will be out
19:02 jcamins oleonard: how long has it been out?
19:03 oleonard 5 minutes
19:07 mtompset How big is your UPS?
19:07 mtompset (i.e. how long will it last?)
19:07 oleonard Actually I'm not sure. It's a loaner because my other one went bad
19:08 oleonard It's an experiment!
19:08 maximep left #koha
19:10 rambutan joined #koha
19:22 ibeardslee joined #koha
19:23 talljoy_DND left #koha
19:31 drojf as a person who has never seen my little pony, this is not bad
19:36 oleonard joined #koha
19:37 * oleonard is back!
19:39 * druthb cheers wildly!
19:39 * drojf throws confetti
19:39 jcamins confetti
19:39 wahanui o/ '`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`
19:39 jcamins more confetti
19:39 wahanui o/ '`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'​`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'
19:40 drojf :D
19:40 druthb !
19:48 talljoy joined #koha
20:07 drojf it was a short party, but a lot of fun
20:10 cait :)
20:12 * oleonard thanks everyone for the presents
20:13 * oleonard leaves before the party gets really quiet and awkward
20:17 cait clever as always :)
20:18 drojf the last one has to clean up so i'm out ;) good night #koha
20:23 cait left #koha
20:52 * wizzyrea waves
20:54 wizzyrea bummer, missed oleonard's party
20:55 nengard left #koha
21:07 trea aww
21:30 drnoe_away left #koha
22:07 Dyrcona joined #koha
22:24 eythian mtj: you updated the wiki to say 3.6 is packaged, which it isn't.
22:25 mtj heya, aah gotta
22:25 mtj 3.6 *was* packaged, now that package has been removed?
22:26 jcamins Right, because it was in oldstable.
22:27 mtj cool, i'll correct the wiki page
22:28 eythian already done
22:29 eythian jcamins: I tried to package the beta, but I'm having repository issues (it doesn't want to understand that I added a new section to the repo for it.)
22:29 jcamins Thanks.
22:29 mtj eythian++ thanks for that
22:29 eythian I'll attack it again some time soon.
22:30 jcamins If we can't figure it out, I can always just continue uploading the .deb files to
22:30 eythian yeah
22:55 wizzyrea pretty quiet.
22:55 jcamins Boo!
22:55 jcamins ^^ not so quiet
23:00 wizzyrea :)
23:07 papa joined #koha
23:09 jcamins I have remembered something.
23:09 wizzyrea what's that
23:09 wahanui that is a good idea.
23:09 jcamins Discovery layers are awful.
23:10 wizzyrea hm yes
23:11 dcook joined #koha
23:15 jcamins Also, the cataloging at my local library is an embarrassment.
23:17 jcamins An embarrassment I say!
23:18 * dcook thinks he is missing some context here
23:18 jcamins dcook: I'm looking for books to request.
23:18 jcamins It's not going well.
23:18 dcook Mmmm
23:18 jcamins In fact, some might say it's going embarrassingly badly.
23:19 jcamins I've been looking for reviews of the books that were coming up in my searches.
23:19 jcamins Oddly, none of the books were sold by Amazon, even though these are recent mass market books.
23:19 jcamins Then I realized: the titles were transcribed wrong!
23:19 jcamins If I copy the title from the cover image, the book comes up in Amazon.
23:20 jcamins And by copy I mean "transcribe."
23:20 dcook O_o
23:21 jcamins Sort of like the catalogers obviously were NOT doing.
23:21 dcook What are they transcribing?
23:21 jcamins Well, their titles are similar.
23:21 jcamins Within the realm of believability.
23:21 jcamins Just, you know, different.
23:21 jcamins Changing singular to plural, removing clauses, that sort of thing.
23:22 dcook Wow...
23:23 jcamins And once again I find myself wishing I had bought myself a barcode scanner for at home.
23:23 jcamins Librarians get so spoiled.
23:24 jcamins Kindle books require an active wi-fi connection...
23:24 jcamins huh?
23:24 wizzyrea that's interesting, it's using solr - which makes me wonder if it's blacklight
23:24 dcook So that they can remove them from your Kindle?
23:25 jcamins No, so they can deliver them, I guess.
23:25 * dcook seems to remember a story where people suddenly found their Kindle ebooks missing
23:25 cjh jcamins: only to download the book
23:25 dcook Well, one ebook, which was censored/pulled/something
23:25 cjh once you have the book on your device wifi isnt needed
23:25 wizzyrea 1984, ironically
23:25 cjh heh
23:26 jcamins cjh: my Kindle doesn't have wifi.
23:26 wizzyrea it an old one?
23:26 cjh all kindles have either wifi or 3g ?
23:26 wizzyrea ^^
23:27 jcamins It has 3G, but I see no way to enter a password for my wireless network.
23:27 jcamins And, yeah.
23:27 cjh unless you are talking about the android/desktop applications, but they still have internet access
23:27 cjh jcamins: well in that case isnt the 3g free to use?
23:27 jcamins cjh: Overdrive doesn't support 3G. :(
23:28 jcamins overdrive--
23:29 pastebot "wizzyrea" at pasted "for jcamins" (9 lines) at
23:30 wizzyrea[…]0690850#wifisteps
23:30 jcamins So I'm thinking if I don't have "Wi-Fi Settings" there that's probably a pretty strong sign that there's no Wi-Fi.
23:30 jcamins The Kindle is pretty old.
23:31 wizzyrea they didn't make those
23:31 wizzyrea afaik
23:31 jcamins In Kindle years.
23:31 wizzyrea it was wifi only or wifi+3g
23:31 jcamins Hmm.
23:32 jcamins Nice... I have the Kindle... "hahaha we decided not to include wifi, sucker."
23:32 jcamins[…]?nodeId=200798800
23:32 jcamins It's a Kingle DX.
23:33 wizzyrea sure enough, it's only got 3g
23:33 wizzyrea sayeth wikipedia
23:33 wizzyrea well that is upsetting.
23:34 jcamins overdrive--
23:34 cjh oh wow
23:34 wizzyrea guess you're going to get friendly with sideloading :/
23:34 jcamins That was going to be the only good thing I had to say about Queens Library, too.
23:34 jcamins They are failing my spectacularly.
23:34 cjh why doesnt it support 3g? do you have to be on an internal network to use it?
23:35 jcamins cjh: I don't know, Overdrive just says "no 3g."
23:35 wizzyrea probably because amazon asked them not to tax their 3g
23:35 wizzyrea because kindle owners don't pay for that
23:35 wizzyrea it doesn't even do wikipedia now, does it?
23:36 wizzyrea I thought it basically only talked to amazon
23:36 wizzyrea (the whispernet thing)
23:36 jcamins Hm.
23:36 jcamins Overdrive says that they support the Kindle DX.
23:36 wizzyrea they probably do, just not from the kindle
23:36 wizzyrea as in, you could put it on via USB
23:36 wizzyrea from your computer
23:37 wizzyrea that counts as "support"
23:37 jcamins I'm totally cool with that.
23:37 jcamins I load everything via USB.
23:38 jcamins Jeez.
23:38 jcamins That was absurd.
23:39 jcamins However, I managed to download the file.
23:39 jcamins It turns out that I have to use Shari's Amazon account if I want to download the file.
23:40 * eythian is pretty anti-Kindle, so he'd say throw it away and buy something that doesn't contain so many anti-features.
23:41 jcamins eythian: I didn't buy the Kindle, and you can't beat $0 for price.
23:41 jcamins And by "my" Kindle I actually mean "not mine."
23:42 * dcook is in favour of both eythian's and jcamins's positions...
23:42 jcamins I successfully loaded the book onto the Kindle.
23:42 dcook \o/
23:43 jcamins It took almost 20 minutes.
23:43 dcook :(
23:43 eythian but by using it, you are potentially indirectly reducing the viability of the non-Amazon book selling and library market in favour of giving them control over what you can access.
23:43 cjh I am not a big fan of the DRM on the kindle, but the amazon selection was much larger than any of the competitions back when I bought it. So I sold out :)
23:43 dcook cjh: Same reason why I bought an ipod :/
23:43 jcamins Folks: this is not user friendly!
23:43 dcook Well, the storage space. Not the collection. I hate itunes...
23:43 jcamins User friendly is Project Gutenberg.
23:43 ibeardslee actually that's not particularly user friendly
23:43 eythian jcamins: it's user friendly if you do it their way. You're fighting the system!
23:44 * wizzyrea has no need to carry her entire music collection on a mobile music device.
23:44 jcamins ibeardslee: sure, it could be better, but "double click" sure beats "click, enter password, enter password, log out, enter password, enter password, get told it doesn't work, get timed out, enter password, get told that you can't have the file, click around a bunch, download file, load file into Calibre, and copy file onto Kindle."
23:44 wizzyrea so 64GB is just fine.
23:45 dcook wizzyrea: I'm a bit of a nomad with a music hobby. I always need it all everywhere.
23:45 dcook I'm listening to music right now O_O
23:45 wizzyrea I don't think the words "user friendly" and "overdrive" have ever been in the same sentence. Except that last one.
23:45 jcamins eythian: I wouldn't know. I've actually never read an Amazon book.
23:45 jcamins wizzyrea: lol
23:46 dcook wizzyrea++
23:46 wizzyrea or at least, not together without the presence of "is not"
23:46 wizzyrea as in "overdrive is not user friendly"
23:46 dcook Never bought a book online, but you can get very affordable shoes...especially in the US
23:46 eythian I'm probably going to use google music more for my music, not as primary storage, but for getting into mobile devices. That said, I don't listen to music on mobile all that much.
23:46 wizzyrea google music is pretty alright.
23:46 dcook Google music?
23:46 wahanui Google music is, like, pretty alright
23:47 eythian dcook: I keep buying ebooks from tor, been rounding out my China Miéville collection recently.
23:47 dcook Nice. I just finished reading The City & The City
23:47 dcook Keen to read more of his stuff
23:48 eythian that's quite different from his other stuff, but they're all similary odd.
23:48 eythian And, imo, all very good.
23:48 eythian I started reading Railsea the other day, it's looking really fun.
23:48 dcook I'll have to keep that one in mind
23:49 dcook A friend of mine said that The City & The City wasn't quite as good as some of his other stuff, but I can't remember her recommendations now.
23:49 dcook I was very surprised by how much I liked it though
23:49 eythian If you like short stories, I recommend Looking for Jake.
23:49 dcook At first, I thought it was going to be generic crime fiction, and it was...but it wasn't.
23:49 eythian yeah, a lot of his stuff is "not too strange story set in a really odd setting"
23:49 * dcook needs to open up his goodreads..
23:49 eythian and the setting drives a lot of it.
23:50 dcook She said he belonged to a genre called "new weird"
23:50 eythian <-- dcook
23:50 wizzyrea It's weird, and done recently, hence, new weird.
23:50 eythian[…]amieville/railsea <-- ebook on sale, too
23:50 wizzyrea makes sense I guess
23:50 eythian yeah. It's like dark fantasy meets steampunk meets scifi. ish.
23:51 dcook but also urban
23:51 dcook Quite weird. I like it.
23:51 dcook Don't know if I see the Orwell/Kakfa/Dick comparisons, but...certainly the kind of author I like
23:51 eythian well, in City not so much
23:52 eythian but some of his other stuff is quite dark.
23:52 cjh PKD is fantastic, I have never actually read any Orwell :(
23:52 dcook Ahh, so Tor is an imprint of Macmillan? Is it all DRM free then?
23:52 eythian yep and yep.
23:52 dcook :D
23:52 dcook Even more my speed then
23:53 eythian plain old epub
23:53 eythian also mobi, if you swing that way.
23:53 dcook Hmm, I don't know mobi
23:53 eythian it's what kindles use
23:53 dcook Ahh
23:53 eythian everything else uses epub
23:53 dcook I tend not to be familiar with evil
23:53 dcook Errrmm
23:53 eythian but amazon doesn't control that, so they don't like it.
23:54 dcook cjh: Love love love PKD. Only read 1984 and wasn't much of a fan tbh
23:54 eythian I have a feeling mobi is an extension of PDB from the palmos days, which is terrorbad.
23:56 cjh dcook: PKD is probably my favourite author, absolutely adore his short stories.
23:56 eythian ah, .PRC, which is similar.
23:56 eythian I've read both, they're both very good. Though some of Orwell's stuff can drag on a bit.
23:56 eythian but his classic stuff is classic for a reason.
23:56 cjh dcook: I feel like I have to give 1984 a try, but it isnt high enough on my list to be a priority :)
23:57 eythian it's a pretty short read, iirc.
23:57 cjh I was going through the Dune series, lost steam in the 3rd book and it has just sat there unfinished.
23:58 dcook eythian: that's true
23:59 dcook cjh: Yeah, Dune is on the list of one day...
23:59 dcook But absolutely love PKD. It used to be a goal to read all the novels, although I think I've only managed 12-14 so far
23:59 dcook I heard rumour that the Terminator folk were going to to turn "Flow my tears, the policeman said" into a film

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