IRC log for #koha, 2013-03-13

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:13 trea left #koha
00:13 bag hey has anyone in here ever talked about using goodreads for reviews OR even having the export option listed among the twitter facebook etc ones ?
00:14 bag if I missed that please fill me in :)
00:14 dcook O_O
00:14 dcook I was thinking about it over the holidays
00:14 bag I think I have an idea to add for the hackfest next week :)
00:14 dcook I would LOVE if someone has done some work on that
00:14 * dcook hearts goodreads something fierce
00:14 bag ok so you haven't heard of it either :)
00:15 bag dcook I was just looking here -->
00:15 dcook Yeah, I took a look at the api back in...December I think
00:15 dcook I was thinking about ways of interegrating my actual reading habits with my library experience and my bookstore experience
00:16 dcook AKA I like adding books to goodreads at the bookstore, and then looking for them in the library :p
00:16 bag that could be a pretty cool thing to add to the memberdetail page in the opac
00:16 dcook Or tracking books I've read from the library on goodreads
00:16 bag or even finding another book to read :)
00:16 dcook Mm that too
00:17 dcook Yeah, I was wondering what the best way to integrate it might be
00:17 bag even a I've read biblionumber :)
00:17 dcook I think it would certainly make the catalogue more interactive and relevant
00:17 dcook I would love this as well ->
00:19 * dcook plotted a little bit to add goodreads to Koha
00:19 dcook Then convince my local public library to switch to Koha ;)
00:19 bag dcook: go for it! :D
00:19 bag on both accounts :D
00:19 dcook The library staff I was chatting with the other day were grumping about having to use Aurora and I mentioned that I worked on Koha..
00:20 dcook They didn't seem to know much about it, so maybe sometime I'll go in and chat to them and try to get the ear of their director
00:20 bag I try to talk with my local librarians - and they are all grumpy - so I don't bother anymore
00:20 dcook Now even for them to be clients of ours. Just for them to use Koha in general
00:20 dcook Not*
00:20 dcook :(
00:20 bag yeah Koha in general :)
00:20 dcook Sad to hear bag
00:20 bag they are grumpy!
00:21 * dcook is trying to remember the status of public libraries in California
00:21 dcook I want to say that I was hearing scary things a year or two ago?
00:21 dcook Or maybe that was Oregon..
00:23 bag budgets maybe
00:23 dcook Makes sense
00:24 dcook The librarians were pretty friendly at mine the other day. It's probably one of the wealthier public libraries I've lived by I think
00:24 dcook flat  screens all over the place and such
00:24 wizzyrea if libraries still use CRT's they're really really in bad shape.
00:25 dcook I mean flat screen tvs
00:25 wizzyrea you haven't even been able to buy one for a few years now.
00:25 wizzyrea oh, ha
00:25 wizzyrea yea that's unusual ;)
00:25 dcook hehe
00:25 dcook Beautiful place
00:34 dcook The only downside of being in Australia is that it's considerably more difficult to find French books...
00:34 dcook Lots of Chinese and Italian but not so much French..
00:34 jcamins dcook: in the eighties it was very hard to find foreign wine.
00:34 jcamins Though not as hard as in NZ.
00:34 * dcook tries to remember if he drinks foreign wine
00:35 dcook The Australian wine is pretty cheap and delicious
00:35 jcamins Actually, we drink mostly German and Australian wine.
00:35 dcook :D
00:36 jcamins There was a particular vineyard in Georgia that had fantastic wine, but they were invaded, so that was the end of them selling wine.
00:36 dcook :(
00:37 dcook Easy to forget about such things in these parts of the world
00:37 dcook Well, not that terrible things don't continue to occur here either
00:37 wizzyrea there are some really fantastic ones in NZ
00:38 jcamins wizzyrea: I knew that, actually. :)
00:39 dcook Koha wine fest in NZ? :D
00:39 wizzyrea you can come to my house :)
00:40 dcook Careful, I'll take you up on that offer :p
00:40 wizzyrea you kidding? having koha people over is fun. :)
00:40 dcook ^_^
00:41 dcook There was some talk last year about me coming over last year to hang out with you Catalyst folks in August, but ran out of time :/
00:41 dcook Might have to work something out for later this year
00:44 * wizzyrea can't speak to the nature of wellington winters
00:44 wizzyrea (yet)
00:44 wizzyrea though they tell me this summer wasn't exactly typical
00:45 dcook This is your first year in Wellington?
00:45 wizzyrea yep
00:45 dcook Neato :)
00:45 dcook I wasn't a huge fan of Sydney winter last year..
00:46 dcook I wasn't exactly prepared clothing-wise and my apartment was dreadful.
00:46 dcook Mind you, this year my current house is probably even worse in terms of weather-proofing, but at least I have a few things reasonably thick so I don't freeze (errr chill) to death
00:47 ibeardslee yes an unusually warm, sunny and dry summer in Wellington
00:48 wizzyrea looks like rain this weekend though
00:48 trea joined #koha
00:49 dcook Sunny today though :)
00:50 wizzyrea yea, been a bit weird - much like the summer we had last year in kansas, just day after day of sunny weather.
00:50 wizzyrea but nowhere near as hot of course.
00:50 wizzyrea 20C instead of 40+
00:53 dcook It gets to 40+ in Kansas?
00:53 dcook I suppose I shouldn't be surprised
00:53 dcook Saskatchewan can get into the high 30s and it's considerably farther north
00:54 wizzyrea yea, highest we saw last summer was 43ish
00:54 wizzyrea mental.
00:54 dcook Ugh..
00:54 dcook When I was house hunting this year, it was around 43-46
00:54 rangi bag: i already did goodreads
00:54 dcook Not as bad I thought it would be, but still not very fun
00:54 dcook rangi: O_O
00:55 rangi[…]49/in/photostream
00:55 dcook ?
00:56 rangi you can pull in reviews without needing an api key, that pulls them in via isbn number
00:56 rangi the rest of their api is kinda clunky
00:56 wizzyrea rangi++
00:56 rangi and uses OAuth
00:56 rangi which is balls
00:57 rangi i might send a patch for the reviews stuff
00:57 dcook I think the Add to my Books widget would be pretty nice as well
00:58 dcook That might just be personal bias, but I personally don't read reviews. I use the lists and that's where I see the real value of goodreads.
00:58 rangi it might be
00:59 rangi but you cant do add to my books without oauth
00:59 bag oh nice rangi
01:00 rangi adn requires you to have a goodreads account of course :), reviews are free
01:00 dcook Fair enough
01:01 rangi ill probably do it someday when i can face trying to make oauth not be an insecure crap pile again :)
01:07 dcook Hmm, the widget looks like it uses an iframe
01:07 dcook I don't know if it's ideal, but it does look pretty simple
01:09 rangi yeah the widget is easy, but kinda naff, the value comes in being able to it from you koha lists etc
01:10 rangi or from your cart
01:10 dcook Mmm, that would certainly be more convenient
01:10 dcook Or from the search results
01:10 rangi you could throw the html widget into the social network stuff
01:10 rangi and it would show up on the detail page
01:10 rangi easy peasy
01:10 dcook But limited, I see what you're saying
01:10 rangi but yeah, being able to do a bit more
01:10 rangi id like you to be able to go heres my list of must reads
01:10 rangi on goodreads
01:11 rangi how many are in this koha
01:11 dcook Agreed
01:11 wizzyrea ^ would be wicked
01:11 dcook How many are in Koha, let me place holds on them
01:11 rangi and it makes a koha list with them and then you can place reserves and check it every so often etc
01:11 rangi yep
01:11 wizzyrea haha I was going to type that.
01:11 dcook hehe
01:12 rangi if you can get the oauth stuff going im happy to do the rest :-)
01:12 dcook It could be a good opportunity to look more into authentication..
01:12 rangi
01:21 rangi  <-- eythian
01:22 eythian hmm, could be handy
01:23 Irma joined #koha
01:24 dcook I'm intrigued that their example requires a developer key...
01:24 dcook intrigued = annoyed
01:24 rangi yeah
01:24 dcook Perhaps I'll take another gander later down the track
01:24 dcook At the moment, it's back to non-Koha work :(
01:24 jcamins I want no-bake oatmeal cookies.
01:25 eythian oh, doesn't work on squeeze :/
01:25 rangi ahh probably too new
01:25 eythian about time I made a wheezy vm for testing builds with anyway
01:25 dcook jcamins: It's like you know when I'm most hungry and choose those moments to say delicious things
01:26 jcamins dcook: I think it's just that at 9pm I tend to be thinking about baking.
01:26 rangi interesting
01:26 wahanui rumour has it interesting is sometimes good and sometimes bad
01:26 rangi koha-common: broken-symlink /usr/share/koha/intranet/htdocs/intranet-​tmpl/prog/en/js/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce -> ../../../../../../../../../tinymce2/www
01:26 dcook Hmm, coincidental timezones make more sense than mindreading I suppose
01:26 rangi koha-common: py-file-not-bytecompiled /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/SIP/
01:27 rangi otherwise its pretty happy
01:27 eythian the link probably should be fixed, though the .py one I don't think we care about.
01:28 rangi *nod*
01:36 jcamins Coconut... yes or no?
01:37 * dcook thinks yes
01:37 wizzyrea everything is better with coconut
01:37 dcook I've been craving coconut lately...
01:37 eythian generally I'd say yes
02:01 jcamins They are delicious, BTW
02:45 bag rangi can I do a git branch -D m*  (* for wildcard)
02:46 rangi dont think so
02:46 rangi however
02:46 rangi you can do something like
02:48 bag was hoping for b*  I've got millions of old bug_xxx branches and I never do house cleaning
02:52 rangi try this for me
02:53 rangi git branch | grep "^  b"
02:53 eythian bag: why don't you try it and let us know? :)
02:53 bag I did try :P
02:53 bag ok rangi on it
02:53 rangi if that gives you a list of all you bug branches
02:53 rangi then
02:54 rangi git branch | grep "^  b" | xargs git branch -D
02:54 rangi will kill them
02:54 bag yeah that killed them
02:55 bag back to one page :D
02:56 dcook Should put that on the wiki...
02:57 rangi i had to do that with tags when paul accidentally pushed all the biblibre tags once
02:57 rangi xargs rules
02:58 bag yeah and something like grep - which is awesome!  I always forget to use.  and it's simple too
03:00 druthb_away joined #koha
03:01 dcook[…]elete_your_Branch
03:01 dcook yay
03:01 bag heya druthb_away
03:01 dcook allo druthb_away
03:02 druthb_away joined #koha
03:03 druthb There we go.
03:06 bag hey druthb
03:06 bag fancy seeing you in these parts :P
03:06 bag :P
03:08 druthb :P
03:08 bag still in kansas?
03:08 druthb until Thursday, yah.
03:09 druthb The house is very, very empty, though.
03:27 gmcharlt boo!
03:27 gmcharlt @quote random
03:27 huginn gmcharlt: Quote #150: "<libsysguy> jcamins is the wizard that forges queries in the deep fires of zebra" (added by wizzyrea at 03:07 PM, August 30, 2011)
03:27 wahanui i already had it that way, huginn.
03:27 druthb Hi, gmcharlt!
03:28 gmcharlt hi druthb
03:52 eythian[…]hecking-out/27656
04:03 trea left #koha
04:17 bag gmcharlt: I was hoping your RM proposal would include creating a professional catalogers interface within koha :P
04:17 bag but I much prefer
04:17 bag you said kill MARC
04:17 bag :D
04:18 gmcharlt bag: funny you should mention that ... at the very least, I'd like to port the EG free-text MARC editor to Koha
04:19 bag cool :)
04:19 bag and let's have a way to import not marc :)  but I'll see what magnuse has cooking in a week...
04:20 bag didn't pianohacker right a free-text editor before?
04:20 bag I think he did - but it never made it to koha - since there were problems with parts of it IIRC
04:20 gmcharlt yeah, that's my recollection as well
04:20 gmcharlt also, I have no idea where that code ended up
04:21 bag I saw it three years ago….
04:21 bag let me see if I can find it again
04:22 bag ah gmcharlt[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6707
04:22 huginn Bug 6707: enhancement, PATCH-Sent (DO NOT USE), ---, pianohacker, Failed QA , Add alternative, textual MARC editor
04:22 gmcharlt bag++
04:23 bag I wonder if that would even apply right now
04:23 bag hmm...
04:24 bag not easily :P
04:26 bag sadly gmcharlt it was easier for me to search for that in my email than it was in BZ (I just have never figured out how to search in BZ - and I have an MLS too :( )
04:36 druthb :P
04:36 bag yeah that's a big tongue sticking out :P
04:37 druthb gmcharlt:  if bag suggests moving from BZ to something else, like...oh, RT, maybe...and says he knows someone who knows how to do that, then just tell him :P
04:37 gmcharlt heh
04:37 * druthb knows how to do that, but it is an *amazing* load of pain and suffering.
04:37 bag I was never the one who said move :P
04:37 druthb yet
04:38 druthb :P
04:39 Irma joined #koha
04:40 * druthb hunts for her toolbox.  Need a bigger hammer for this translation server.
04:47 bag I need more toolboxs
04:48 bag I find that the further I get into a car project - the more often I have to run to autozone or something for the one special part
04:52 cjh gmcharlt++
04:52 druthb @karma
04:52 huginn druthb: Highest karma: "rangi" (750), "oleonard" (654), and "jcamins" (509).  Lowest karma: "<!" (-116), "failed" (-101), and "-" (-73).  You (druthb) are ranked 13 out of 2413.
04:52 druthb @most increased
04:52 huginn druthb: "rangi": 756, "oleonard": 659, "jcamins": 511, "wizzyrea": 391, "gmcharlt": 361, "cait": 356, "chris_n": 313, "paul_p": 275, "kf": 255, "sekjal": 245, "nengard": 237, "magnuse": 216, "druthb": 180, "slef": 175, "eythian": 159, "fredericd": 96, "marcelr": 79, "drojf": 74, "biblibre": 70, "hdl": 69, "mveron": 66, "mtj": 61, "hdl_laptop": 60, "tcohen": 59, and "jwagner": 54
04:52 mtj hey peeps, is the meeting starting in 10 mins, yeah?
04:53 bag @karma bag
04:53 huginn bag: Karma for "bag" has been increased 9 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 9.
04:53 bag mtj: I think it's tomorrow?
04:53 eythian mtj: UTC
04:53 bag nine times :P
04:53 eythian you're still in the future, remember
04:53 bag @karma brendan
04:53 huginn bag: Karma for "brendan" has been increased 28 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 28.
04:53 bag that's better :)
04:53 bag @karma bywater
04:53 huginn bag: Karma for "bywater" has been increased 35 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 35.
04:53 bag nice :)
04:53 cjh mtj: I thought it was tomorrow morning, 7am here.
04:54 druthb 1300 next, for me, IIRC
04:54 mtj aah, so it is
04:55 bag ah but hey mtj how goes it :)
04:55 * mtj reads his screen more gooder
04:55 bag HA
04:55 bag hey are you planning on going to kohacon13?
04:55 mtj aww, pretty good over here
04:56 mtj bag, i would really like to, but no :/
04:56 bag oh bummers
04:56 bag hey I just sent you a picture of a evil wizard
04:56 bag s/a/an
04:58 mtj lol, just got it
05:02 bag yeah I thought you'd get a kick out of that :)
05:07 mtj bag, shes looking pretty focused
05:07 bag :)
05:10 mtj ok, gotta scoot now
05:11 mtj i cant attend tmrws meeting, will be on a bus… :/
05:11 mtj looking forward to reading the meeting logs after, tho
05:11 mtj gmcharlt++
05:15 dcook gmcharlt++
05:15 dcook Nice proposal :)
05:16 * druthb waves to dcook
05:17 dcook hey druthb :)
05:17 druthb :)
05:36 cait joined #koha
05:37 druthb hi, cait! :)
05:37 bag hi cait
05:38 dcook hallo cait :)
05:38 cait :)
05:38 cait mornin :)
06:15 dcook Time for this moose to scoot.
06:15 dcook Morning/night all!
06:22 drojf joined #koha
06:22 drojf mrnng
06:23 cait morning drojf
06:24 cait and bye all
06:24 cait left #koha
06:24 druthb Hi, drojf! :)
06:25 drojf hi druthb
06:25 drojf (and hi cait for the log ;)
06:25 drojf standing up at 7am. i'm getting old :D
06:27 drojf oh, meeting today. maybe that should go in the topic?
06:27 drojf hahah it is :/
06:27 drojf my windows was too small
06:27 drojf getting up≠being awake
06:37 druthb lol
06:40 bag ok heading home to walk the doggie catch you all later
06:53 aquaghost hello
06:56 rangi hi aquaghost
06:57 aquaghost how are you?
06:57 rangi not too bad, keeping busy, hows the new gig?
06:59 aquaghost good thanks hows things with you
06:59 aquaghost this is not aquahost
06:59 aquaghost this is aquadehost
07:00 aquaghost bye
07:00 aquaghost :)
07:00 aquaghost xxx
07:02 aquaghost lol, soz, gf was on comp
07:02 rangi :)
07:04 sophie_m joined #koha
07:08 laurence joined #koha
07:25 * magnuse waves
07:29 rangi hi magnuse
07:29 christophe_c joined #koha
07:30 christophe_c hello #koha
07:30 rangi hi christophe_c
07:30 christophe_c hi rangi
07:31 magnuse hiya rangi and christophe_c
07:31 magnuse @wunder marseille
07:31 huginn magnuse: The current temperature in Marseille, France is 5.0°C (8:00 AM CET on March 13, 2013). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 76%. Dew Point: 1.0°C. Pressure: 29.42 in 996 hPa (Steady).
07:31 magnuse ouch!
07:31 bag @wunder 93102
07:31 huginn bag: The current temperature in Near Mission - TC, Santa Barbara, California is 10.7°C (12:28 AM PDT on March 13, 2013). Conditions: Fog. Humidity: 72%. Dew Point: 6.0°C. Pressure: 30.08 in 1018 hPa (Steady). Dense fog advisory in effect until 9 am PDT Wednesday...
07:31 magnuse @wunder boo
07:31 huginn magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is -8.0°C (8:20 AM CET on March 13, 2013). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 86%. Dew Point: -10.0°C. Windchill: -16.0°C. Pressure: 29.65 in 1004 hPa (Steady).
07:31 bag yup lots of fog out there
07:31 christophe_c hi magnuse
07:32 bag -8 ouch!
07:32 magnuse yeah, it's a bit on the cold side - lovely weather though
07:32 magnuse yesterday was magnificent with crisp white snow and lots of sun
07:32 bag too cold :P
07:33 magnuse we were hoping to meet the spring in marseille, but it doesn't look too promising at the moment, does it?
07:34 magnuse 10-11 degrees next week[…]rseille/long.html
07:34 magnuse bag: are you trying to get used to european time?
07:34 bag nah just up late
07:35 bag I'm hanging with Ginny for most of the afternoon tomorrow so my wife (Sonja) can take care of a few things - so trying to get my work done tonight
07:35 bag :)
07:36 laurence joined #koha
07:39 drojf @wunder berlin, germany
07:39 huginn drojf: The current temperature in Prenzlauer Berg, Berlin, Germany is -3.6°C (8:13 AM CET on March 13, 2013). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 62%. Dew Point: -10.0°C. Windchill: -4.0°C. Pressure: 29.65 in 1004 hPa (Steady).
07:46 reiveune joined #koha
07:47 reiveune hello
07:51 lds joined #koha
07:52 * rangi is watching history unfold on parliamentary tv
07:54 rangi (marriage equality vote)
08:01 alex_a joined #koha
08:02 alex_a bonjour
08:03 magnuse bag: sounds like a good plan :-)
08:03 rangi hi alex_a
08:03 alex_a hello rangi
08:03 gaetan_B joined #koha
08:03 gaetan_B hello
08:05 Joubu hi #koha
08:06 drojf rangi: so you live in a country that has left the middle ages? i don't :(
08:06 rangi not quite yet, but hopefully very soon
08:07 rangi (we have civil unions now .. but this will make total equality)
08:07 rangi its the 2nd reading
08:08 rangi[…]eaaade358509e.htm
08:08 rangi (takes 3 readings to be passed into law)
08:08 drojf we have civil unions too but that does not give any financial plus a married couple gets. to think beyond that you would have to consider what's best for kids, but »OMG they want to have kids too???«
08:10 rangi yeah
08:19 mib_rqwkis joined #koha
08:19 alohabot Hi mib_rqwkis, Welcome to #koha. Feel free to use the '/nick yourname' command to choose a different name. alohabot, wahanui, and huginn are bots. If you need any help, just ask - there's usually someone around to help :)
08:19 rangi this MP is the most boring man alive
08:21 mib_rqwkis hi I need help with marc control field processing
08:23 mib_rqwkis can you help me  ?
08:23 rangi we wont know until you ask your question
08:25 cait joined #koha
08:26 rangi hi cait
08:27 drojf mib_rqwkis: what is itthat you want to know?
08:27 mib_rqwkis I try recognize a numbers of filelds in record.mrc file
08:28 drojf i don't think you can recognize much in the compiled mrc file. if you plan on editing that, i think that is not really possible
08:28 drojf (if tha tis what you are trying to do)
08:31 cait hi rangi :)
08:31 drojf moin cait
08:31 drojf how is leipzig?
08:31 cait snowy and cold!
08:31 cait @wunder leipzig
08:31 huginn cait: The current temperature in APRSWXNET Willi-Bredel-Strabe DE, Leipzig, Germany is -5.0°C (9:03 AM CET on March 13, 2013). Conditions: Light Snow. Humidity: 91%. Dew Point: -6.0°C. Windchill: -9.0°C. Pressure: 29.62 in 1003 hPa (Steady).
08:31 cait enjoying some quiet time before the rush
08:31 drojf and the conference? how did your talk go?
08:32 cait i think it went ok
08:32 cait bit hard to tell for me - but relieved it's over :)
08:33 drojf :)
08:33 cait no mean questions and someone said something nice on twitter
08:33 drojf mib_rqwkis: it would help to know what you are trying to do
08:33 drojf oh, about mean questions… how did kuali go? :P
08:34 mib_kqiakf joined #koha
08:34 alohabot Hi mib_kqiakf, Welcome to #koha. Feel free to use the '/nick yourname' command to choose a different name. alohabot, wahanui, and huginn are bots. If you need any help, just ask - there's usually someone around to help :)
08:36 magnuse cait: it doesn't get much better than that ;-)
08:36 mib_kqiakf I try processing marc record from file
08:36 magnuse mib_kqiakf: what do you mean by "processing"?
08:37 mib_kqiakf read file and recognize some datafileds and subfields
08:39 cait drojf: I thik ok - there is no version to really test it yet
08:39 rangi *cough* vapourware *cough*
08:40 drojf cait: did you ask what is open about it? :P
08:40 mib_kqiakf but I don't see in this file tags
08:40 drojf mib_kqiakf: the formats for humans to do that are .mrk or marcxml. mrc is a compiled file. while it should be possible to do it somehow, you will at least get severe headache.
08:41 drojf all field numbers are in the first line, with the control fields. in an order that i do not understand
08:41 drojf or is that the second line? :D
08:42 drojf mib_kqiakf: where did you get the mrc file from?
08:42 drojf and what are you trying to do with the fields? are you trying to learn from it (like, what fields to use), oder to edit them?
08:42 mib_kqiakf this is 4 lines form file 01038nam a2200313 i 4500008004100000015001800041020001500059040001500​0740410013000890800026001021000034001282450089001​6224600810025126000290033230000260036149000190038​7504001200406650003200418650003600450650002400486​6550018005107000049005287100026005778300019006039​9800100062292000310063299900130066399900480067
08:43 cait directory
08:43 rangi its not supposed to be read by a human
08:43 drojf at the end, in triplets, are field numbers. so you know in general that there is a 067, 480, 900, 999 and so on in your record. 999 looks like you have data from a non-koha system
08:43 cait yep
08:43 rangi the M in MARC is for Machine
08:44 * cait nods
08:44 cait think it was made for magnetic... something?
08:44 rangi if you are on a machine that has Koha installed
08:44 rangi run
08:44 rangi marcdump yourfile | less
08:44 drojf magnet readable catalogue? magnets, how the fuck do they catalogue :D
08:44 rangi and you will get it in a human readable format
08:45 cait drojf: the medium it was used to be saved to... not sure how to say that
08:45 lds joined #koha
08:45 rangi we should use more marc
08:45 wahanui http://02varvara.files.wordpre[…]no-bear.jpg?w=800
08:45 drojf hehe
08:46 drojf cait: i know what you mean, just kidding
08:46 cait drojf: you are mean :P
08:46 mib_kqiakf but I try processing this file in programing language like c#  and I looking for help to do that
08:46 rangi hmm ... that really isnt to do with Koha
08:47 drojf and it is not what you want
08:47 rangi and c# is not an open language, so I cant really help you with that
08:47 cait there are other languages with good tool for processing marc records...
08:47 cait like perl
08:47 rangi or python, or ruby
08:48 drojf to do whatever with marc data (if it is not "put it in the system wher eit expects that kind of data") you would want the uncompiled thing. use marcdump as rangi said and take a look at the output
08:48 rangi pymarc and some marc gem
08:49 drojf when paul_p writes +10 i read that as biblibre shouting it alltogether
08:49 rangi heh
08:50 cait :)
08:51 mib_kqiakf I try marcdump and take a look at the output thx
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09:17 magnuse bbl
09:23 rangi 2nd reading passes 77-44
09:28 drojf nice. with those numbers it seems not very likely it won't pass in the end
09:28 rangi yeah its very rare for something to fail at the 3rd reading
09:31 rangi drojf: i think this is awesome too
09:31 rangi[…]11770325924859906
09:31 rangi a conversation between one of my friends and a member of parliament
09:32 drojf lol
09:45 drojf magnuse: are you aware that the normarc biblio-zebra-indexdefs.xml file in a package installation (i did 3.10) likely has the wrong file name? it should be biblio-koha-indexdefs.xml for the xMl, it is biblio-zebra-indexdefs.xsl ("koha" vs "marc" in the middle part) for the xSl.
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10:18 drojf anyway i fail to switch from grs to dom for a package installation
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10:34 Viktor Is there any known documentation of when it is ok to use the 'back' button in the browser - and when it's not ok?
10:36 Viktor In Koha that is :)
10:37 drojf i think it is  "if there is another way, use that" ;)
10:38 Viktor I suspect so to drojf :)
10:39 Viktor But there are some situations where it's useful and there is no meaningful way to go back with breadcrumbs etc in the navigation.
10:39 Viktor Oh well.
10:41 drojf i don't remember a real problem with that in firefox. if you can't go back the page is blank and you can go forth again and find another way
10:41 Viktor Aha! Thanks.
10:42 Viktor We are forced to use IE :(
10:42 drojf oh
10:42 drojf i'm sorry! ;)
10:43 Viktor :)
10:44 Viktor Oh another question - is it possible to return a book from the item view?
10:44 Viktor Or should we create a button for it? :)
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11:38 magnuse back
12:22 jenkins_koha Starting build #1074 for job Koha_master (previous build: FIXED)
12:25 jcamins magnuse: I need you to test something for me: do you by any chance not have patrons with names starting with any of the Norwegian letters with diacritics?
12:25 huginn New commit(s) kohagit: Merge branch 'bug_6898' into 3.12-master <[…]daf2dd79c96a9eaef> / Bug 6898: Increment version number <[…]525797366b3f7fea1> / Bug 6898 - circulation librarians can't run overdues without reports permissions... <
12:26 tcohen joined #koha
12:26 magnuse jcamins: i don't have patrons myself ;-)
12:26 magnuse what should i test?
12:27 jcamins Go to the patrons module, browse to patrons with a name starting with a letter with a diacritic, and refresh the page three times.
12:27 jcamins Actually, refresh it twice.
12:27 jcamins Then if nothing unexpected happens, refresh it again.
12:28 * magnuse enters some fake patrons
12:29 jcamins You shouldn't need any patrons.
12:29 jcamins In fact, you definitely don't.
12:29 magnuse huh?
12:30 jcamins There needn't be any results when you click Ä.
12:30 jcamins I don't have any, and my server still goes weird.
12:30 magnuse how?
12:30 Dyrcona joined #koha
12:30 magnuse i don't see any ill effects
12:31 magnuse testing here:[…]=1&surname=%C3%98
12:31 jcamins Good.
12:31 jcamins In my case, I got a nice dramatic stacktrace.
12:32 magnuse clicking on Ã… ( = &Aring; ) gives me patrons that start with A (capital a) though...
12:32 jcamins Yeah, I've noticed that.
12:32 magnuse jcamins: wow!
12:32 jcamins The first two times.
12:32 jcamins The third time I get a stack trace.
12:33 magnuse using plack or anything else fancy?
12:33 jcamins Plack.
12:33 * magnuse has no idea if that is relevant
12:33 jcamins Ooh. With use strict in C4/ I can trigger it first try.
12:34 jcamins Almost certainly that's the culprit
12:34 jcamins No, maybe not...
12:35 * jcamins sighs.
12:36 magnuse sorry, gotta run
12:39 jcamins Bye.
12:41 tcohen morning #koha
12:45 jcamins Okay, seems to be a data thing.
12:45 jcamins Good morning.
12:52 drojf joined #koha
12:53 tcohen where an I download an EDI message?
12:55 jcamins tcohen: no idea, sorry.
12:55 tcohen hi jcamins
12:56 edveal joined #koha
12:56 edveal Good morning
12:57 jcamins Is anyone running current master at the moment?
12:57 jcamins If so, what is your Version syspref set to?
12:57 jcamins Because mine is set to "weird."
12:57 jcamins Well... 3.9901004.
12:57 jcamins And that doesn't make much sense to me.
13:01 drojf but it looks cool
13:01 * drojf is not at home, no koha here
13:05 tcohen 3.1100027 jcamins
13:05 jcamins tcohen: thanks.
13:06 tcohen will NoZebra stuff be removed fir 3.12?
13:06 jcamins tcohen: good question.
13:07 tcohen there was a bug for that, right?
13:07 jcamins There was.
13:08 tcohen bug 7440
13:08 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7440 major, P3, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Vestiges of NoZebra should be removed
13:16 huginn New commit(s) kohagit: Merge branch 'bug_9458' into 3.12-master <[…]5ae72982cbcd8c16e> / Bug 9458 - Add sorting to lists - QA Followup 4 <[…]2cc113dcb85c8002f> / Bug 9458 - Add sorting to lists - QA Followup 3 <[…]mitdiff;h=1ac83c0
13:19 trendynick joined #koha
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13:24 lds1 joined #koha
13:29 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #1074: UNSTABLE in 1 hr 7 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]Koha_master/1074/
13:29 jenkins_koha * Mathieu Saby: Bug 8853: Suppress links in basketgroups list
13:29 jenkins_koha * Kyle M Hall: Bug 6898 - circulation librarians can't run overdues without reports permissions
13:29 jenkins_koha * Fridolyn SOMERS: Bug 6898 - circulation librarians can't run overdues without reports permissions followup
13:29 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8853 major, P5 - low, ---, mathieu.saby, Pushed to Master , clicking basketgroup name in closed basketgroups reopens it
13:29 jenkins_koha * Jared Camins-Esakov: Bug 6898: Increment version number
13:29 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6898 major, P3, ---, fridolyn.somers, Pushed to Master , circulation librarians can't run overdues without reports permissions
13:31 jenkins_koha Starting build #1075 for job Koha_master (previous build: UNSTABLE -- last SUCCESS #1073 1 day 13 hr ago)
13:42 * magnuse waves
13:43 magnuse jcamins: my installation of master has Version syspref = 3.1100026
13:47 jcamins magnuse: yeah, I have no idea how I ended up with such a weird version.
13:50 paul_p joined #koha
13:50 magnuse jcamins: myshkin walking across your keyboard? ;-)
13:51 jcamins magnuse: heh. Probably.
13:51 magnuse kia ora paul_p!
13:52 magnuse paul_p: do you think you could add some more info about the "something" you already started, to[…]wdfunding_for_big.2C_boring_improvements.3F ?
13:52 paul_p hi magnuse
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14:24 * jcamins contemplates strawberry muffins.
14:26 tcohen big day jcamins, ah?
14:26 jcamins tcohen: only two baking projects planned.
14:26 jcamins Muffins and cookies.
14:26 jcamins :P
14:26 tcohen (a.k.a freedom)
14:27 jcamins lol
14:27 jcamins Yeah, I'm pretty pleased.
14:27 * jcamins considered write-protecting the Roles for 3.14 wiki page so that gmcharlt couldn't remove himself.
14:27 magnuse hehe
14:29 gmcharlt jcamins: don't worry, I haven't thought better of my decision
14:29 tcohen heh
14:29 jcamins gmcharlt: isn't it absurdly early where you are?
14:29 jcamins Hmmm... I guess only 6:26.
14:29 gmcharlt no, 7:26
14:30 jcamins 7:26?
14:30 jcamins Huh.
14:30 jcamins It's hardly early at all, then.
14:30 gmcharlt indeed not ;)
14:30 jcamins I need a good muffin recipe.
14:30 * gmcharlt watches for suitably horrified expressions on the night owls
14:31 jcamins I just don't have one.
14:31 jcamins I have _okay_ muffin recipes, but no recipes that make you say "wow! This is the best muffin recipe ever!"
14:31 drojf magnuse: did you see what i wrote about the normarc indexdef files?
14:31 jcamins drojf: yeah, there's a patch for it.
14:31 drojf ah, alright
14:32 jcamins :)
14:32 * magnuse created a bug but not a patch...
14:32 jcamins Oh.
14:32 drojf still i wonder how to set up dom
14:32 jcamins There's a bug.
14:32 jcamins Not a patch.
14:32 jcamins Whatever.
14:32 jcamins :)
14:32 magnuse bug 9804
14:32 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9804 normal, P5 - low, ---, magnus, NEW , Wrong name for NORMARC biblio-koha-indexdefs.xml
14:32 drojf the wiki way minus all the errors does not work
14:32 drojf or i am too stupid
14:32 magnuse gah, for a moment there i thought someone else had made the patch :-)
14:32 drojf heh
14:32 jcamins has a recipe.
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14:33 jcamins Maybe I'll try that one.
14:33 jcamins A half cup of butter?!?
14:33 magnuse jcamins: sounds like a good start?
14:33 jcamins If I use an entire stick of butter on the muffins, how will I make the cookies?
14:34 magnuse jcamins: with more butter that you get from the closest shop?
14:34 jcamins All the muffin recipes I've used in the past have used oil and not butter.
14:34 drojf mailorder butter
14:34 jcamins magnuse: ah, right.
14:35 jcamins Actually, I still have two pounds left after using this stick of butter.
14:35 drojf that reminds me of the great norwegian butter crisis
14:36 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #1075: STILL UNSTABLE in 1 hr 5 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]Koha_master/1075/
14:36 jenkins_koha * Owen Leonard: Bug 9647 - Replace YUI buttons on Z39.50 servers administration page with Bootstrap
14:36 jenkins_koha * Owen Leonard: Bug 9695 - Use alphabet system preference on page used to browse patrons for patron card batches
14:36 jenkins_koha * Liz Rea: bug 9784: add koha-shell to the koha-common man page
14:36 jenkins_koha * Robin Sheat: Bug 9035 - delete
14:36 jenkins_koha * Marcel de Rooy: Bug 9760: Simplify local use preferences
14:36 jenkins_koha * Kyle M Hall: Bug 9458 - Add sorting to lists
14:36 jenkins_koha * Kyle M Hall: Bug 9458 - Add sorting to lists - QA Followup
14:36 jenkins_koha * Kyle M Hall: Bug 9458 - Add sorting to lists - QA Followup 2
14:36 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9647 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Master , Replace YUI buttons on Z39.50 servers administration page with Bootstrap
14:36 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9695 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Master , Use alphabet system preference on page used to browse patrons for patron card batches
14:36 jenkins_koha * Kyle M Hall: Bug 9458 - Add sorting to lists - QA Followup 3
14:36 jenkins_koha * Kyle M Hall: Bug 9458 - Add sorting to lists - QA Followup 4
14:36 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9784 minor, P5 - low, ---, liz, Pushed to Master , koha-shell missing from koha-common man page
14:36 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9035 trivial, P5 - low, ---, robin, Pushed to Master , remove deprecated '' file
14:36 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9760 enhancement, P5 - low, ---,, Pushed to Master , Simplify local use preferences
14:36 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9458 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Pushed to Master , Add sorting to lists
14:38 magnuse drojf: gah! this winter we apparently had butter produced in france, but after norwegian recipies, and there was no talk about it in the media, which was kind of weird
14:38 magnuse i think the crisis was smaller than last winter... :-)
14:39 jcamins Almost $100 a pound!
14:40 drojf magnuse: secret french butter? :D
14:40 jcamins ...
14:41 jcamins If Jasper Fforde's Thursday Next books didn't predate the crisis, I would've said he changed "butter" to "cheese" and just wrote about the crisis in his novels.
14:41 * drojf wonders what special butter recipes norwegians use
14:42 drojf i need cookies. probably now-cookies and meeting-cookies
14:43 drojf too much now-cookies could lead to meeting-sleep though
14:43 jcamins And is that a bad thing?
14:43 * magnuse needs to set some cookies from dancer
14:44 drojf jcamins: i thought i am supposed to vote for koha people ;)
14:44 jcamins drojf: oh, that meeting.
14:44 jcamins Yes.
14:44 drojf a job meeting i would prefer sleeping
14:44 paul_p magnuse = done (on the wiki page[…]wdfunding_for_big.2C_boring_improvements.3F)
14:45 paul_p just FYI : the northen half of France is under snow, but, fortunatly, Marseille is on the south, the weather is really good
14:45 paul_p @wunder Marseille
14:45 huginn paul_p: The current temperature in Marseille, France is 10.0°C (3:30 PM CET on March 13, 2013). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 50%. Dew Point: 0.0°C. Pressure: 29.36 in 994 hPa (Steady).
14:45 paul_p (well, for ppl coming to Marseille next week ;-) )
14:46 magnuse paul_p: my wife will be glad to hear that, she is freaking out a bit about the temperatures... :-)
14:46 paul_p 10°0... if you're outside, under the sun, it feels much more than this
14:46 magnuse and paul_p++ for adding to the agenda - good since it seems both of us might iss the meeting
14:46 paul_p last sunday, it was 16-17, and we had lunch in the garden
14:46 magnuse paul_p: yeah, a little sunshine helps
14:46 magnuse and not too much wind
14:47 magnuse lots of rain on sunday it seems[…]rseille/long.html
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14:58 libsysguy morning everyone
14:59 magnuse hiya libsysguy
15:00 libsysguy hia magnuse
15:04 tcohen do we have a coverage tool for the Koha code available?
15:05 magnuse test coverage?
15:05 magnuse jenkins does that, i think
15:06 tcohen I want to check if a function/method is ever used (at least) in a fancier way than grep
15:06 libsysguy Devel::Cover?
15:07 magnuse tcohen: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]075/HTML_Report/?
15:07 rambutan joined #koha
15:07 tcohen Devel::Cover, exactly
15:07 magnuse the jenkins thing is "Generated by Devel::CoverReport"
15:08 tcohen is there info around to run it for my current checkout?
15:08 libsysguy I think a lot of Devel::Cover depends on what tests are available
15:09 tcohen it relies on the Unit tests then
15:09 tcohen it is not a static code analysis tool
15:09 jcamins tcohen: we do not do static code analysis.
15:10 magnuse would Devel::NYTProf be any use?
15:12 jcamins magnuse: still requires the code to be run.
15:13 magnuse ah
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15:38 * tcohen wants to remove NoZebra and be sure no cruft remains
15:42 jcamins tcohen: me too!
15:43 jcamins But I'd rather someone else did the removing.
15:43 tcohen we have a problem:[…]ules/
15:43 tcohen I think tt files shouldn't be accesible
15:44 tcohen and the rest of the template stuff not browseable
15:44 jcamins tcohen: I've thought about that, and decided I don't care.
15:44 jcamins It'd be easy to fix.
15:46 tcohen hmmm
15:46 tcohen is it possible to match Directory blocks using regexps?
15:47 tcohen because of the language thing...
15:47 jcamins I'm not sure.
15:47 jcamins The actual solution is to move the tt out of htdocs.
15:48 jcamins If you think about it, anything that isn't tt doesn't get translated anyway.
15:48 jcamins tt/xml
15:48 jcamins *xslt
15:49 tcohen 1) there's a DirectoryMatch block that could provide a quick fix
15:49 tcohen 2) you're 100% right a proper solution would be removing the templates from htdocs
15:50 * jcamins would push a patch providing a quick fix.
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16:03 oleonard Hi #koha
16:03 rambutan hi oleonard
16:07 melia joined #koha
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16:11 juan-sieira joined #koha
16:18 * jcamins clarifies his position on 3.14, just in case anyone was confused.
16:18 bag morning all :)
16:19 laurence left #koha
16:19 rambutan AM bag
16:20 juan-sieira left #koha
16:21 jcamins Is anyone confused?
16:21 jcamins Good.
16:22 oleonard jcamins: So what you're saying is that you'll probably do lots of volunteering
16:22 oleonard ?
16:22 oleonard and we should assign the hard bugs to you?
16:22 jcamins Exactly, only, the opposite.
16:27 drojf meeting?
16:28 wahanui meeting is at 6, so I need to leave in about two and a half hours.
16:28 drojf no link? aaaw
16:28 jcamins I think 1:35.
16:28 oleonard[…]ng,_13_March_2013
16:29 drojf thanks :)
16:29 * drojf should have waited with searching the wiki for a minute
16:31 drojf and i ate all cookies already. zzZZzz
16:51 nancyk joined #koha
16:54 jcamins Hm. I guess I had the time wrong.
16:54 jcamins Fortunately I'm here either way.
16:55 drojf huh? it's in an hour, isn't it?
16:55 druthb It is in an hour, yes.
16:55 jcamins drojf: I thought it was, but druthb and nancyk just showed up, so I figure they know something I don't.
16:56 * druthb showed up because she is awake and otherwise unoccupied.
16:56 nancyk hate figuring UTC
16:56 drojf 18utc is 19 here, that is in an hour
16:56 drojf i wouldn't mind it to be now though
16:57 oleonard[…]g&iso=20130313T18
16:57 drojf it won't take too long with less folk too :P
16:57 * oleonard lets the internet do his figuring for him
16:58 jcamins drojf: agreed.
17:00 christophe_c left #koha
17:10 nancyk zzzzzzzz
17:11 jcamins nancyk: you had cookies too?
17:11 nancyk not enough coffee yet.
17:11 jcamins Hehe.
17:13 oleonard Remember, people who sleep through meetings get elected for things.
17:14 jcamins This is true.
17:14 nancyk that woke me up!
17:14 drojf lol
17:14 jcamins That's how I ended up RM.
17:15 nancyk Will you be RM this October?
17:16 jcamins No!
17:16 jcamins gmcharlt put in a proposal to be sacrificial lamb^H^H RM
17:16 oleonard I think that's a timing question, not a role question jcamins ;)
17:16 nancyk Wanna do a presentation anyway?
17:16 jcamins oleonard: oh.
17:16 jcamins nancyk: yeah, I will put in a proposal.
17:17 jcamins I should decide what I'm proposing to talk about.
17:17 nancyk thanks
17:17 oleonard How does Bug 9458 choose which item's call number to sort on?
17:17 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9458 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Pushed to Master , Add sorting to lists
17:17 jcamins oleonard: whichever is first.
17:17 gmcharlt what determines first?
17:18 jcamins gmcharlt: PRNG.
17:18 * gmcharlt secretly installs trigger to reshuffle rows every time items is updated
17:18 gmcharlt ;)
17:19 oleonard Please Restrain Nervous Giggling?
17:20 gmcharlt pseudorandom number generator
17:20 druthb Please Recycle Noisy Gits?
17:21 oleonard Looks like it sorts on the first item, but doesn't show the items in the same order as they are when it determines which is first
17:22 tcohen jcamins, is -Indexes relevant or just forbidding modules/xslt/includes would be enough for a quick fix?
17:24 tcohen anyone?
17:24 wahanui rumour has it anyone is free to organize one at any time :-)
17:25 jcamins tcohen: might as well disable idnexes.
17:26 tater joined #koha
17:26 drojf nice. a german court ruled pro LGPL, violater has to pay 15000€ for the use of some library in his closed software
17:27 jcamins Excellent!
17:28 * libsysguy made it back in time for the meeting
17:28 libsysguy woot
17:34 drojf only in germany...[…]er_ueberblick.php
17:34 jcamins drojf: wow, yeah, you're right.
17:34 mtate joined #koha
17:36 drojf german wurst engineering!
17:36 drojf "Who can benefit from toasting sausages? Any customer facing business seeing an opportunity to earn money by  including Bratwurst into its sales and marketing channels. "
17:37 drojf koha workshop and bratwurst sale, what can possibly go wrong?
17:37 jcamins If it's worth doing, it's worth doing with lots of chrome.
17:38 drojf maybe i'll write a book about it too. "the bratwurst opportunity". from bratwurst toaster to millionaire
17:39 drojf omg and you need a special bratwurst. which they sell. hahahahaha that is the best thing ever
17:40 oleonard You gotta have the right gauge brats right?
17:41 drojf lol yeah.  "It is especially created for the sausage toaster, achieving shorter grilling times and having greater taste with less fat. "
17:41 cait joined #koha
17:42 tcohen bug 9812
17:42 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9812 minor, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, Needs Signoff , Several files shouldn't be exposed or browseable through a URL
17:43 oleonard cait: drojf is recruiting us all to his new business venture:[…]er_ueberblick.php
17:43 cait these crazy germans...
17:44 davidnind joined #koha
17:44 jcamins cait: and it uses metre-gauge bratwurst rather than standard gauge bratwurst.
17:44 cait and only 7kg...
17:45 cait quite light for such an incredible device
17:45 * jcamins can't stop giggling over the idea.
17:45 drojf it's fantastic, isn't it :D
17:46 jcamins It is!
17:46 drojf cait: do you know "wer anderen eine bratwurst brät, der hat ein bratwurstbratgerät"? now i know what that is
17:46 ColinC joined #koha
17:47 cait lol
17:47 cait no; didn't know that one yet
17:47 jcamins bratwurstbratgerät?
17:48 jcamins Google translate has no explanation.
17:48 drojf bratwurstfryingdevice. as you know german can build words as long as you like. i don't konow who came up with that one, i remember it from irc quit messages from ages ago
17:49 bgkriegel joined #koha
17:49 jcamins A person who fries bratwurst has a bratwurst frying device?
17:50 drojf a person who fries bratwurst for others has a bratwurst frying device
17:50 cait something like that
17:50 cait can't he fry bratwurst for himself?
17:50 jcamins cait: apparently the device is unnecessary in that case.
17:50 cait is the meeting in 13 mins?
17:50 druthb yis
17:51 cait interesting
17:51 wahanui i think interesting is sometimes good and sometimes bad
17:51 oleonard It may be postponed for more bratwurst jokes.
17:51 cait no sure the chair will allow that
17:51 drojf there is "wer anderen eine grube gräbt, fällt selbst hinein". i think that is some kind of nonsense variation
17:51 JesseM joined #koha
17:52 cait marcelr++ btw
17:52 drojf the internet says the english equivalent to the grube proverb is "Curses, like chickens, come home to roost."
17:52 drojf so maybe it is chicken bratwurst
17:52 thd oleonard: What happened to your need for including Apache 2 licensed code and hence GPL 3 or AGPL 3?
17:53 cait we decided to update the koha license
17:53 cjh good morning
17:53 oleonard thd: I needed GPL3 to be able to include the Bootstrap library, which we are now doing.
17:53 jcamins thd: we have done so.
17:53 cait which is quite awesome isn't it?
17:53 cait :)
17:53 cait hi cjh :)
17:53 thd jcamins: We had scheduled a vote which never occurred.
17:54 jcamins thd: we voted three times.
17:54 drojf i remember voting on something
17:54 oleonard I don't think that's right thd. We voted in the meeting.
17:54 jcamins We voted to vote to vote, we voted to vote, and we voted.
17:54 drojf invoteception
17:55 thd I had understood that we voted to have the vote at the following meeting.
17:55 jcamins We did. Then we voted at the following meeting.
17:55 jcamins So the license discussion is not on the agenda.
17:55 cait yep
17:55 thd I know that it is not on today's agenda.
17:56 oleonard Bug 9440
17:56 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9440 trivial, P5 - low, ---, mtj, Pushed to Master , update Koha's LICENSE file from GPL2 to GPL3
17:56 oleonard Boom.
17:56 margo joined #koha
17:58 thd Maybe I was at a different meeting from other people or was disconnected without realising.
17:58 thd I will have to check the logs.
17:59 davidnind Change to GPL 3 agreed at 5 December 2012 meeting - http://meetings.koha-community[…]2-12-05-18.05.txt
17:59 wahanui davidnind: that doesn't look right
17:59 wahanui joined #koha
18:00 thd Bug 9440 is inadequate description of what ought to change but it will satisfy for the moment.
18:00 jcamins Who is chairing?
18:00 wahanui chairing is easy with meetingbot :)
18:00 jcamins thd: patches are always welcome.
18:01 cait i can
18:01 cait if you want me to
18:01 drojf People Present (lines said)  * thd (22)
18:01 gmcharlt cait++
18:01 jcamins Yes please!
18:01 drojf yay cait
18:01 cait #startmeeting
18:01 wahanui if there is a meeting then Brooke must want me
18:01 huginn cait: Error: A meeting name is required, e.g., '#startmeeting Marketing Committee'
18:01 wahanui i already had it that way, huginn.
18:01 thd jcamins: Many files need a header patch which specifies their source license and not GPL 3+.
18:01 cait Welcome all :)
18:02 cait please introduce yourself with #info
18:02 tcohen hi cait
18:02 jcamins thd: yes, patches are welcome. Now we have a meeting.
18:02 cait #topic introductions
18:02 wahanui #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient
18:02 gmcharlt cait: hold on - you need to redo the #startmeeting
18:02 cait ah sorry
18:02 drojf cait: there was an error. is that usual?
18:02 libsysguy did it actually start the meeting
18:02 cait #startmeeting Koha IRC Meeting
18:02 huginn Meeting started Wed Mar 13 17:59:33 2013 UTC.  The chair is cait. Information about MeetBot at
18:02 huginn Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
18:02 Topic for #koha is now  (Meeting topic: Koha IRC Meeting)
18:02 huginn The meeting name has been set to 'koha_irc_meeting'
18:02 cait #topic Introductions
18:02 Topic for #koha is now Introductions (Meeting topic: Koha IRC Meeting)
18:02 wahanui #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient
18:02 tcohen #info Tomas Cohen Arazi, Universidad Nacional de Cordoba
18:02 oleonard #info Owen Leonard, Athens County Public Libraries
18:02 jcamins #info Jared Camins-Esakov, C & P Bibliography Services, RM for 3.12
18:02 gmcharlt #info Galen Charlton, Equinox Software
18:02 thd #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
18:02 drojf #info Mirko Tietgen, Berlin
18:02 cait ok :) Welcome all - please introduce yourself with #info
18:02 druthb #info D Ruth Bavousett, TM 3.12, speaking for m'self.
18:02 libsysguy #info Elliott Davis, Houston Tx, QAA 3.12
18:02 cait #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ Germany
18:03 jwagner #info Jane Wagner, LibLime/PTFS
18:03 margo #Margo Duncan University of Texas at Tyler
18:03 JesseM #info Jesse Maseto, ByWater Solutions
18:03 davidnind #info David Nind, Wellington, New Zealand
18:03 nancyk #info Nancy Keener, Washoe County, Reno Nevada
18:03 cjh #info Chris Hall, Catalyst IT, New Zealand
18:03 margo #info Margo Duncan, University of Texas at Tyler
18:03 ColinC #info Colin Campbell, PTFS Europe Ltd
18:03 bgkriegel #info Bernardo Gonzalez Kriegel, Córdoba, Argentina
18:03 bag #info Brendan Gallagher, ByWater Solutions
18:03 cait ok :)
18:03 cait going to change the topic :)
18:03 cait #topic Announcements
18:03 Topic for #koha is now Announcements (Meeting topic: Koha IRC Meeting)
18:04 slef #info MJ Ray,, England
18:04 cait do we have announcements or amendments to the agenda?
18:04 libsysguy only one from me
18:04 libsysguy I forgot to attache it
18:04 cait yes?
18:04 libsysguy I am still planning on donating the domain names to HLT as of 4/3/2013
18:04 libsysguy that is as soon as I can release them
18:05 slef 2013-04-03
18:05 wahanui 2006
18:05 drojf that was days ago
18:05 drojf :P
18:05 drojf in europe
18:05 libsysguy heh
18:05 libsysguy I can put it in DT format if you wish
18:05 cait ok :) any questions about this or further announcements?
18:05 slef drojf: #include <jokes/time/laggy/usa>
18:05 thd libsysguy: Which  names?
18:05 libsysguy 2013-04-03 00:00:00
18:06 drojf slef: yay :D
18:06 libsysguy I bought a gamut of koha based names a month or so ago
18:06 thd OK
18:06 libsysguy and have an arrangement to transfer them to HLT
18:06 libsysguy domain_names_on_sale++
18:07 libsysguy anywho, that's all I have
18:07 JDatTeTakere joined #koha
18:07 gbengaadara joined #koha
18:07 cait ok
18:07 cait moving on
18:07 cait #topic Update on 3.8
18:07 Topic for #koha is now Update on 3.8 (Meeting topic: Koha IRC Meeting)
18:07 melia #info melia meggs, bywater solutions (late, sorry)
18:07 khall #info Kyle M Hall, ByWater Solutions
18:08 cait I think rmaint is not here?
18:08 edveal #info Ed Veal, ByWater Solutions
18:08 jcamins Seemingly not.
18:08 cait heh
18:08 JDatTeTakere #info JD/Joanne Dillon, Te Takere
18:08 cait I guess it's best we move on to 3.12?
18:08 * slef checks bugs
18:08 gbengaadara #info Olugbenga Adara, Projektlink Konsult
18:08 jcamins Fine by me.
18:08 cait #topic Update on 3.12
18:08 Topic for #koha is now Update on 3.12 (Meeting topic: Koha IRC Meeting)
18:08 jcamins Koha 3.12 is still on schedule.
18:08 cait jcamins: ? :)
18:09 jcamins I've been thinking about writing a belated RM newsletter.
18:09 cait jcamins
18:09 cait jcamins++
18:09 jcamins When that will happen exactly I couldn't say, but I do plan on writing one.
18:10 gmcharlt jcamins++
18:10 cait maybe after hackfest would be a good time?
18:10 tcohen jcamins++
18:10 jcamins I also plan to release an alpha tarball/package at the start of the feature flush, and a beta a few days after the feature freeze.
18:10 drojf aaand we have a pope
18:10 cait we do?
18:10 drojf sorry ^^
18:10 slef jcamins: should I be looking at Version 3.12 or Version master in bugs?
18:10 jcamins Better not be me!
18:10 oleonard drojf: Was that on the agenda? And no vote?
18:10 JDatTeTakere joined #koha
18:10 jcamins slef: version master.
18:11 drojf oleonard: intransparency galore
18:11 slef jcamins: so 2 blockers
18:11 slef bug 9324
18:11 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9324 blocker, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Reserves cannot be deleted with DEBUG on under Plack
18:11 jcamins On the subject of the schedule, I would like to remind people of a few key dates.
18:11 slef bug 9591
18:11 wahanui bug 9591 is a weird one
18:11 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9591 blocker, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Set Library changes after viewing Holds Queue >> reserves item
18:11 cait I think we might go through a bunch of bugs next week - probably some need updating
18:12 jcamins Feature slush is March 15.
18:12 cait drojf: oh, white smoke
18:12 jcamins Any patch for a feature or enhancement that has not already been submitted by Friday *IS NOT GOING INTO KOHA 3.12*.
18:12 slef (23 critical, 84 major, 280 normal, 82 minor, 17 trivial, 496 enhancements, 11 new features)
18:12 jcamins Feature freeze starts March 22.
18:12 slef #info 2 blockers, 23 critical, 84 major, 280 normal, 82 minor, 17 trivial, 496 enhancements, 11 new features
18:13 slef #info Feature slush is March 15, freeze starts March 22
18:13 jcamins Any feature or enhancement that has not been pushed by March 22 *IS NOT GOING INTO KOHA 3.12*.
18:13 cait thx slef
18:13 drojf jcamins: that includes followups?
18:13 cait i got distracted by the pope :)
18:13 slef #info Any feature or enhancement that has not been pushed by March 22 *IS NOT GOING INTO KOHA 3.12*
18:13 jcamins drojf: follow-ups fixing bugs in features already pushed will be accepted post-freeze.
18:13 slef cait: it's usually the priests to blame and the pope just hushes it up.
18:14 jcamins And QA follow-ups/revisions are allowed during the slush.
18:14 slef there are 84 enhancements and 1 new feature Needs Signoff
18:14 drojf ok that is what i meant
18:14 cait i think we have to decide in some cases if it's a rewrite or QA follow up
18:14 cait slef: most new features probably not marked correctly
18:14 jcamins cait: yes. And I will tend to err on the side of "it's a rewrite."
18:14 jcamins So, basically:
18:14 cait jcamins: your call :)
18:15 slef jcamins: what would you like us to prefer?  Bugfixes or enhancements?
18:15 cait bugfixes
18:15 wahanui bugfixes are still fair game
18:15 jcamins #info If you are in doubt about whether or not an enhancement/feature is eligible for 3.12, it isn't.
18:15 cait but you didn't ask me :)
18:15 jcamins Bugfixes.
18:15 wahanui bugfixes are still fair game
18:15 jcamins Absolutely bugfixes.
18:15 jcamins I'd love to see more enhancements and features go in, of course, but our goal is a rock-solid release.
18:15 drojf rock-solid++
18:16 jcamins 3.14 is coming out in November, so anything that gets bumped shouldn't be waiting too long.
18:16 cait I saw some weridness in presenting koha today... will try to track these things down and check
18:16 jcamins And that's all I have to say.
18:16 cait ok
18:16 slef any javascript gurus around?
18:16 jcamins Unless there are more questions.
18:16 cait so I would like to move on :)
18:16 cait slef: is your question related to 3.12?
18:16 slef cait: it's a major bug in master, so sort of.
18:17 cait maybe that is better for after the meeting?
18:17 oleonard File a bug, discuss after the meeting
18:17 cait yep
18:17 slef cait: as you wish.
18:17 cait #topic KohaCon2013
18:17 Topic for #koha is now KohaCon2013 (Meeting topic: Koha IRC Meeting)
18:17 nancyk #info We have 18 people registered so far, 6  programs proposed, we need more.
18:17 cait nancyk? :)
18:17 slef oleonard: is a bug. Was hoping to smoke out someone to review the fix ;-)
18:18 nancyk #info I will send out an email calling for papers, and asking for subjects we would like to see covered.  This email will also include links to register, volunteer to do a program, and other stuff.
18:18 cait nancyk++ :)
18:18 jcamins #link
18:18 bag perhaps include a deadline for submissions for talks?
18:18 * slef goes to close the kohacon12 registration forms
18:18 oleonard I would like to present at KohaCon2013 if anyone has good ideas for what kind of front-end/UI stuff might be of interest
18:19 drojf slef: noooo
18:19 slef drojf: 12, not 13
18:19 drojf i know
18:19 nancyk #info We have a meeting next week on Tues 19th  19 UTC, I’ll send out a reminder.
18:19 drojf :P
18:19 thd oleonard: ui magic show :)
18:19 slef drojf: o_O
18:19 nancyk #info I would like to set up some panel discussions … what would be good?
18:19 cait oleonard: maybe some conceptual ideas to get some feedback from libraries?
18:20 drojf nancyk: will it be possible to do a streaming presentation? i might consider doing that, but i will 99,9% sure not be able to come to reno
18:20 bag nancyk: panels should be fine
18:20 nancyk we can certainly try.
18:21 nancyk That's all I have for now
18:21 jcamins drojf: a prerecorded talk seemed to work for last time. Perhaps slef can advise nancyk on how he set that up.
18:21 tcohen do we have some deadline regarding kohacon13 participation?
18:21 bag nancyk++
18:21 drojf jcamins: yeah that is probably more safe
18:22 nancyk No deadlines yet
18:22 drojf and try a live hello/q&a afterwards
18:22 slef oh wow you don't want to know
18:22 slef playback was easy, but I was using a GSM phone with a headphone jack into the PA
18:22 tcohen thanks nancyk
18:23 slef for the live Q+A
18:23 drojf i was more thinking of jitsy
18:23 slef I hope drojf doesn't mind, but I'd prefer live speakers if you can.
18:23 cait nancyk: ok to change topic?
18:23 drojf jitsi even
18:23 cait and thank you for the update!
18:23 nancyk yes
18:23 cait #topic KohaCon14
18:23 Topic for #koha is now KohaCon14 (Meeting topic: Koha IRC Meeting)
18:24 cait not sure who added it to the agenda
18:24 dpavlin_ #info Dobrica Pavlinušić, FFZG Zagreb, Croatia (sorry, late)
18:24 drojf slef: no i perfectly understand that
18:24 cait hi dpavlin_ :)
18:24 drojf hi dpavlin_
18:24 drojf please propose for kohacon 14 :P
18:24 dpavlin_ hi all, not to hijack KohaCon14 topic :-)
18:24 drojf aaaw
18:25 * jcamins cheers! Zagreb for KohaCon14!
18:25 gmcharlt I think it's a little early, unless there are folks eager to start proposing sites
18:25 tcohen ;-)
18:25 slef nancyk: it looks like someone has edited the kohacon12 registration form, but left them coming to the co-op. Should I change the recipient address and forward the forms over?  Can you /msg slef the email address, please?
18:26 jcamins I think what we've heard from previous organizers is that having extra time to think is a good idea, so that there could be some sort of planning discussion at the previous year's KohaCon.
18:26 jcamins That leaves us several months, since KohaCon13 is in October.
18:26 jcamins And I don't know who put it on the agenda either.
18:26 slef someone check RecentChanges. I'm up to my eyeballs in website
18:26 cait slef: lotsof registrations? :)
18:27 cait ok
18:27 slef cait: I think I saw a few come in. I was going to check when things quietened down (hah!)
18:27 cait so if we don't have something to vote or discuss right now - I am going to move on :)
18:28 druthb dooo eeet
18:28 cait but zagreb would certainly be nice :)
18:28 cait #topic Roles for 3.14
18:28 Topic for #koha is now Roles for 3.14 (Meeting topic: Koha IRC Meeting)
18:28 cait i think now starts the main event for tonight?
18:28 nancyk I will fix the registration page.
18:28 slef nancyk: I have the admin open, so can do it if you prefer.
18:28 cait ok, not to sound silly, but are we going to vote tonight?
18:29 jcamins Apparently we are voting at the April meeting.
18:29 bag I don't think it's bad to talk about it now - the more choice we have or the more people thinking about hosting next one the better :)
18:29 cait ah, because I think it was advertised somewhere that we will vote today
18:30 bag probably just a - hey we need some volunteers in the next 8 months :P
18:30 jcamins From February 6: vote for release team is in two meetings time (wizzyrea, 02:42:38)
18:30 gmcharlt yep
18:30 slef oh the form has been edited out of the kohacon12 registration page
18:30 bag yep April
18:30 drojf we are not voting today?
18:30 bag no voting today
18:30 cait I guess there was some confusion
18:30 jcamins We are not.
18:30 cait maybe we shoudl make it an early april meeting then
18:30 drojf and i stayed up all night? man
18:30 drojf kidding
18:30 cait drojf: it's not even 8
18:31 nancyk send them to me
18:31 ColinC I had the virtual white smoke ready
18:31 slef nancyk: will do.
18:31 druthb ColinC++
18:31 oleonard drojf is in Kazakhstan starting his bratwurst cart business cait
18:31 oleonard It's later there.
18:32 cait ColinC: heh
18:32 cait ok, so no voting
18:32 cait any questions about the roles?
18:32 thd Yes
18:33 thd I would like gmcharlt to clarify any thoughts he has about post-MARC Koha
18:33 cait thd: I think this kind of question takes a longer time to be answered
18:33 thd I mean of course very briefly.
18:33 cait gmcharlt?
18:33 wahanui i think gmcharlt is an expert in all things library technology.
18:34 gmcharlt thd: it's pretty simple, at least in theory: I would like Koha to be able to treat metadata formats other than MARC21 as first-class options for data entry, search, and indexing
18:34 gmcharlt in particular (to start), qualified Dublin Core and (if the tuits appear) EAD
18:35 druthb no one is saying get rid of MARC handling, right, gmcharlt?  There seems to be confusion over that.
18:35 gmcharlt more generally, to take advantage of the capacities of the current search engine options to index arbitrary XML
18:35 gmcharlt druthb: correct, and to be clear: the proposal is not to remove MARC support from Koha
18:35 gmcharlt that's EASILY a decade away
18:35 bag death to MARC!
18:35 bag heh
18:35 druthb gmcharlt++
18:35 thd gmchart: The arbitrary format issue is the answer to my question.
18:35 cait gmcharlt++ sounds interesting for sure!
18:36 thd gmcharlt++++
18:36 cait ok
18:36 cait any more questions?
18:36 cait magnuse: you around?
18:36 tcohen yes: can we vote for gmcharlt so he can't run away?
18:36 dpavlin_ so we would have biblio in any format, what about items?
18:36 cait tcohen: I have been pondering that
18:36 oleonard magnuse said he wouldn't be here
18:37 cait oleonard: I had a pm from him earlier :)
18:37 cait so just checking
18:37 cait ok next toic
18:37 cait #topic Crowdfunding for big boring improvements (see agenda)
18:37 Topic for #koha is now Crowdfunding for big boring improvements (see agenda) (Meeting topic: Koha IRC Meeting)
18:37 * druthb is headed out to other engagements.  be well, all.
18:38 cait maybe we can gather some gneeral thoughts on that?
18:38 slef I should find the video of my awful kohacon12 talk ;)
18:38 gmcharlt one general thought -- there would be some legalities to consider
18:39 jcamins The idea seems good in theory. The problem is just the lag time on any sort of large refactoring. Patch A depends on patch B depends on patch C, and each one takes a long time to get in, so we may end up making very little progress.
18:39 gmcharlt for example, should we form an entity that is empowered to collect and distribute funds (or join an exisiting umbrella organization for F/OSS projects)?
18:39 indradg joined #koha
18:39 tcohen I belive the main problem is the choice of some framework
18:39 indranil joined #koha
18:40 gmcharlt or consider an approach where somebody comes up with a plan to do such a project, then seeks funding?
18:40 cait gmcharlt: or join one
18:40 davidnind Piwik (Google Analytics) has successfully used crowdfunding for new features.  See:
18:40 slef gmcharlt: or ask HLT if it would process them.
18:40 davidnind s/be free software Google Analytics alternative
18:40 thd Is there any problem with HLT  serving as the collecting and dispersement entity?
18:41 gmcharlt slef: indeed, ready, willing, *and* equipped to do so
18:41 tcohen crowdfunding is not the problem, but what to do
18:41 slef Is Bob our HLT contact?
18:41 gmcharlt thd: that is an open question -- it would mean work for HLT; we certainly can't just assume
18:41 drojf thd: for one, they would have to agree to do that?
18:41 cait and i guess being as inteantional as we are there might be difficultis of all sorts to move money around and billing
18:42 gmcharlt cait: and potential conflicts of interest
18:42 jcamins JDatTeTakere: any thoughts before HLT is volunteered?
18:42 * cait wishes things weren't so complicated all the time
18:42 slef cait: I suspect that is going to suck no matter what we do and be rather unpredictable, so I wouldn't include it as a reason, based on past experience.
18:42 thd Asside from the question of the willingness of HLT, is there a problem for some organisations giving to HLT?
18:43 cait I think just donating without a bill for something could be a problem for some public institutions
18:43 slef cait: unless someone can get a banker to give a promise ;-)
18:43 slef thd: giving: yes; paying for a promise of koha work: probably not.
18:43 margo if you could structure it to show that an insitution is paying for something
18:43 cait but thta's to be sorted out when we have some proposal
18:43 JDatTeTakere I was just trying to work out what HLT stood for :-)
18:44 slef wahanui: HLT?
18:44 wahanui HLT are hosting it?
18:44 slef wahanui: forget HLT
18:44 wahanui slef: I forgot hlt
18:44 JDatTeTakere Horowhenua Library Trust
18:44 jcamins HLT is Horowhenua Library Trust
18:44 jcamins hlt?
18:44 wahanui hlt is Horowhenua Library Trust
18:44 slef wahanui: HLT is Horowhenua Library Trust
18:44 wahanui ...but hlt is Horowhenua Library Trust...
18:44 slef wahanui: forget HLT
18:44 wahanui slef: I forgot hlt
18:44 slef wahanui: HLT is Horowhenua Library Trust
18:44 wahanui OK, slef.
18:45 JDatTeTakere We're currently working on some improvements for Kete but would certainly love to be involved in Koha ones.
18:45 cait ok
18:45 cait I think we won't come to a decision about that atonight
18:45 jcamins Agreed.
18:45 cait so I am moving on to Actions from last meeting
18:45 cait #topic Actions from last meeting
18:45 Topic for #koha is now Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: Koha IRC Meeting)
18:46 cait trying to hurry things along a bit ;)
18:46 tcohen how can we come to discuss choosing a framework or minimal set of tools for that?
18:46 cait can someone check the logs please?
18:46 jcamins We have no outstanding actions.
18:46 jcamins tcohen: send a message to the mailing list.
18:46 oleonard http://meetings.koha-community[…]-02-07-02.05.html
18:46 gmcharlt well, just the one
18:46 gmcharlt ACTION: interested parties should submit their proposals for release team duties to the wiki, and mail the link to the devel list (wizzyrea, 02:41:09)
18:46 cait tcohen: I think doing it on the fly without preparation now is too hard - but could be discussed on the mailing list /a wiki page
18:46 * gmcharlt reiterates call for more bug wranglers
18:46 jcamins gmcharlt: interested parties already did that, I think.
18:47 tcohen indeed
18:47 cait well if we got more interested parties... that would not hurt
18:47 slef gmcharlt: say it as #action for maximum volume?
18:47 jcamins True.
18:47 cait btw gmcharlt+++++ :)
18:47 cait #action please consider being a bug wrangler!
18:48 gmcharlt #action Folks interested in 3.14 roles, particularly QA and bug wranglers, should submit proposals and update[…]ki/Roles_for_3.14
18:48 cait ok, can someone help me find the right time for next meeting please? drojf?
18:48 drojf i forgot which way around we rotate
18:48 trendynick joined #koha
18:48 slef last was 2am
18:48 gmcharlt I suggest that we do shoot for earlier in April, and suggest April 3rd as the day
18:49 cait I think backwards
18:49 slef so next is 10 UTC = 11 BST = 12 CEST = arrrgh?
18:49 drojf i think it is 12is
18:49 jcamins April 3, 1000UTC?
18:49 jcamins Yes.
18:49 cait gmcharlt: ok for me
18:49 drojf yeah i think so slef
18:49 jcamins 10UTC
18:49 drojf good voting time
18:49 drojf (for europe...)
18:49 cait wlel not for nz
18:49 cait bit late
18:49 drojf we could do 2 times for vote meetings
18:50 cait I think we better send them coffee if the altenrative is 2 meetings :)
18:50 drojf if there are people to chaitr, and people to sort out people taking part in both
18:50 JDatTeTakere It's 11pm NZ time - not too bad.
18:50 cait #agreed  next meeting: April 3rd, 10UTC
18:50 jcamins drojf: I don't think that's necessary. People can note their votes on the wiki, if anyone wants to vote against the anticipated majority.
18:50 cait hope I got that right?
18:50 jcamins You did.
18:50 cait well consider this meeting ended :)
18:50 thd drojf: Would that mean voting twice or once across two meetings?
18:50 * jcamins seconds the movement to end the meeting. :)
18:50 cait #endmeeting
18:50 Topic for #koha is now Welcome to #koha this channel is for discussion of the Koha project and software Next general IRC meeting 13 March 2013 at 18:00 UTC
18:50 huginn Meeting ended Wed Mar 13 18:47:59 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)
18:50 huginn Minutes:        http://meetings.koha-community[…]-03-13-17.59.html
18:50 huginn Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community[…]3-03-13-17.59.txt
18:50 huginn Log:            http://meetings.koha-community[…]13-17.59.log.html
18:50 drojf jcamins: good point
18:51 cait hm 48 without votes...
18:51 cait :P
18:51 drojf thd: the latter i thought
18:51 davidnind cait++ for chairing O:-)
18:51 gmcharlt cait++
18:51 cjh cait++
18:51 drojf cait++
18:51 jcamins cait++
18:51 Topic for #koha is now Welcome to #koha this channel is for discussion of the Koha project and software Next general IRC meeting 3 April 2013 at 10:00 UTC
18:51 * cait hides
18:51 indranil cait++
18:52 slef cait: you ready with the #startvote for next meeting? ;-)
18:52 cait oh
18:52 cait not yet
18:52 cait I forgot bout it really - are there docs for it somewhere?
18:52 slef cait: syntax is #startvote Question? A, B, C
18:52 slef cait: then people go "#vote A" or whatever
18:53 cait mybe tell me that again before the meeting?
18:53 slef cait: then you go #endvote
18:53 gmcharlt cait:
18:53 slef cait: I'll try ;)
18:53 cait bit talked and tired out tonight - 3 days of library conf
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18:54 thd cait++ of course, however, I have checked the logs and we are following the vote over GPL 3+ but all within one meeting.
18:55 cait yes, I think we changed plans back nd forth during the meting bit
18:55 cait but there was a bug and i think something on the maling list too
18:55 slef coding guidelines?
18:55 wahanui coding guidelines are[…]Coding_Guidelines
18:55 cait it would not make much sense to question it now in my opinion
18:55 thd cait: Yes, my problem was that I lost my connection at least once during the meeting.
18:55 jcamins The vote to upgrade to GPLv3+ did not have to be unanimous, and there were plenty of opportunities for people to object, so Koha master/3.12+ is licensed GPLv3+. Period.
18:55 thd 18:45:42 <thd> Am I reconnected?
18:55 gerundio joined #koha
18:56 slef also, are there any javascript gurus around?
18:56 slef jcamins: is it not GPLv3+ period, but rather GPLv3+ with the two exceptions?
18:56 drojf jcamins: with that kind of attitude you will make a great pope! looking forward to that
18:56 drojf btw you should get to rome now
18:56 jcamins slef: right, not "GPLv3+ period," but "the license is changed, period."
18:57 slef hrm
18:57 thd jcamins: I am not objecting.  I was never an objector.  I was merely concerned about the propriety of the process when their had been a controversy on the mailing list at one point.
18:58 slef shoudl we be encouraging <li style="display:none;"> rather than the CSS, or is that acceptable because it affects all themes, or should there at least be an id attribute?  Coding guidelines seem silent about this
18:58 oleonard What is the context slef?
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18:58 slef oleonard: fields being hidden in admin so that they can still be shown with jquery if anyone is using them
18:58 thd jcamins: I have always been a strong proponent of GPL 3+ and AGPL 3+, however, I merely wanted to give every opportunity to those who would object.
18:58 slef (or presumably with CSS)
18:59 datadoctor display:none is standard css, locally applied
18:59 datadoctor slef are you talking about where the css is defined, locally or globally?
19:00 oleonard slef: Usually I would say that jQuery should be used to hide those fields on page load, meaning no in-page CSS hiding them.
19:00 datadoctor makes sense
19:00 JDatTeTakere Question about the meeting.  Is magnus the person I need to speak to about "Crowdfunding for big, boring improvements?" before the next meeting?
19:00 slef datadoctor: I'm wondering if it's OK to use the style attribute.
19:00 libsysguy inline_css--
19:01 slef oleonard: why not CSS?
19:02 drojf i thought opac has to work without js. wouldn't css make more sense then?
19:02 oleonard slef: It's a general guideline which applies more to situations where JavaScript isn't necessarily required (which it is in the staff client) so the rule isn't hard and fast
19:02 slef drojf: to be fair, it's in the staff client. bug 4266
19:02 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4266 major, P5 - low, ---, mathieu.saby, Needs Signoff , encumbrance and expenditure not used in code
19:03 cait JDatTeTakere: magnuse was suggesting it - I am not sure he has a project in mind
19:03 thd gmcharlt: Have you experimented with BibFrame?
19:03 gmcharlt thd: not yet
19:03 drojf RA: if you came for the meeting, you have missed it
19:04 tcohen jcamins: feature removal is an enh?
19:04 jcamins tcohen: it depends.
19:04 jcamins Removing NoZebra is a bugfix.
19:04 JDatTeTakere Thanks cait
19:04 tcohen heh, ok
19:04 tcohen bye jcamins , #koha
19:04 jcamins In fact, I hereby upgrade it to blocker.
19:04 jcamins ... provided there's a patch supplied. :)
19:05 thd gmcharlt: I have raised some problems with the principle developers in person and over telephone to obtain clarification without unnecessarily mistaking intent on the bibframe list.
19:05 slef cait, JDatTeTakere: I think magnuse, paul_p, myself, Bob and rangi all had views on this at kohacon12. nengard too.
19:06 thd gmcharlt: I have mixed discoveries of the claim for the intention of lossless mapping of data from MARC.
19:07 JDatTeTakere OK.  I'm hoping to chat with rangi with week so I'll run it past him and jransom so that I'm able to give a response from HLT at the April meeting.
19:07 slef JDatTeTakere: thanks, that's brilliant!
19:08 thd gmcharlt: One reason that arbitrary XML metadata support should be especially necessary is that BibFrame might in the end need unofficial patches to actually avoid data loss from all MARC records.
19:09 drojf[…]YAA1ugX.jpg:large
19:10 oleonard drojf: I thought he resigned?
19:10 drojf they all look the same
19:10 drojf in their red shoes
19:10 * slef remembers bug 9322 and goes looking for the discussion
19:10 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9322 major, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Needs Signoff , If multiple transfers exist (from circ/, completing one completes them all
19:10 thd gmcharlt: There are ideological convictions over how data ought to be structured and what the role of the Library of Congress ought to be competing with how people including cataloguers at LC envision metadata.
19:12 gmcharlt thd: interesting points ... have you gathered them up in a blog post orthe like?
19:15 thd gmcharlt: There are currently large areas of data loss in BibFrame  over anything dependent on data sequence or orderliness which is a lot in many millions of records with everything from subdivided subject headings, multiple places of publication, sound recordings, etc..
19:17 thd gmcharlt: I have not yet raised the issues on the mailing list or any blog.  I had have had somewhat satisfactory answers in person from the principles but I am afraid of the answer to the question of the real test.
19:18 jcamins thd: once the 3.14 cycle starts you might want to send a link to the koha-devel mailing list to a blog post detailing these issues.
19:18 thd jcamins: These are issues which actually had to be corrected in Koha in the past.
19:20 datadoctor We may have granted the pope of the LOC too much power, much as I respect the institution. I am thinking of the DMCA exemption powers, regarding mobile device content.
19:20 datadoctor Not really a Koha issue though :)
19:20 drojf tcohen is pope. congratulations
19:20 datadoctor tcohen++
19:21 datadoctor time to shake the foundations! ;)
19:21 thd datadoctor: They are not a Koha problem unless we blindly follow LC also.
19:22 thd datadoctor: I have hope that they will be fixed because they are of deep concern to many inside LC.
19:22 bgkriegel joined #koha
19:22 datadoctor I hear you. Cataloging is complex, we depend on the LOC a lot, how do we decide where their structure works and where it doesn't?
19:24 thd datadoctor: You can test their model with tricky record data which are not the most common cases being examined.
19:25 thd datadoctor: There are python scripts on Github for testing and an online form which you can use for testing.
19:26 datadoctor Thank you thd! I am interested in the issue and will try to learn more about it. I will look at the github info.
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19:28 thd datadoctor gmcharlt: Myself and others will in future be calling for a round trip MARC to BIBFRAME and back to MARC test as the only satifactory validation that conversion will be lossless.
19:30 * thd has to make an excursion to work
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19:47 * drojf heads home
19:47 drojf left #koha
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20:08 sekjal joined #koha
20:09 * druthb tacklehugs sekjal
20:09 edveal joined #koha
20:09 edveal Webinar done now time to for call to NE Harbor.
20:09 rangi morning
20:10 oleonard Hi rangi
20:12 jcamins edveal: possibly you just said that in the wrong channel.
20:12 jcamins sekjal: hello!
20:12 edveal Yes sorry
20:12 jcamins edveal: no problem. Tell them #koha says hi. :)
20:12 sekjal hi, jcamins
20:12 sekjal hi, druthb!
20:12 oleonard hey sekjal, come to volunteer to be RM? You'll have to arm wrestle gmcharlt for it
20:13 gmcharlt hi sekjal
20:13 jcamins oleonard: just so long as one of them remains standing at the end.
20:13 sekjal I totally missed the meeting, huh?  I blame daylight savings, and my wife's broken foot
20:13 * wizzyrea prefers both
20:14 gmcharlt ah, my sympathies to your wife
20:14 wizzyrea indeed, poor wife!
20:14 sekjal thanks, gmcharlt.  she's recovering well, but still on crutches.  surgey was only last Thursday
20:16 rangi hi sekjal
20:16 rangi hmm am i reading this wrong is Mesfin asking Koha to relabel his items?
20:17 sekjal hi, rangi
20:17 jcamins Probably not, and probably, respectively.
20:17 jcamins But I didn't see the message.
20:18 rangi heh
20:19 jcamins Surely Koha comes with a built-in developer who will appear and do all the work for free?
20:20 rangi hey i resemble that remark!
20:20 rangi :-)
20:23 indranil__ lol
20:23 jcamins rangi: I found the e-mail.
20:24 cait hi rangi and sekjal
20:24 sekjal hi cait!
20:25 cait :)
20:25 cait rangi: I read it like that as well and chose ot to answer it righ tnow
20:26 jcamins I answered it.
20:26 indranil__ jcamins, lmao over the reply
20:27 jcamins I decided to charitably assume that Mesfin simply had never worked in a library environment and therefore didn't know the difference between an item and a bib.
20:27 jcamins I further decided that more detail than that would probably not help to clarify the matter.
20:27 rangi true
20:28 rangi often that is correct
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20:44 gmcharlt jcamins: we always have the option of utterly horrifying catalogers and actually adding a feature to switch the call numbers stored in the item records :)
20:45 jcamins gmcharlt: and then someone would try it and complain when it moved all their fiction to P*.
20:45 gmcharlt note: I will never write such a feature -- at least, not without a *TON* of caveats, warning messages, and a physical red button to push
20:46 cait lol
20:46 jcamins Speaking of red buttons, I wrote a demo once that would only work if you turned a serial A/B switch to B.
20:48 Dyrcona Speaking of red buttons, I just had one of mine pushed.
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20:51 cait Dyrcona: should we seek hm coverage?
20:51 Dyrcona ????
20:52 rangi whats hm coverage?
20:52 jcamins cover
20:52 cait oh
20:52 cait :)
20:52 jcamins cait was trying to think of the word. :)
20:52 cait the dictionary was not clear :)
20:52 jcamins And, better is "take cover." :)
20:52 cait jcamins knows me well :)
20:53 * Dyrcona is calm now.
20:54 sekjal time to catch my bus; g'night, #koha
20:54 * jcamins heads out to learn how to not electrocute himself while installing outlets, having learned how to not flood his downstairs neighbors' apartments last week.
20:55 wizzyrea good luck :)
20:55 rangi :)
20:56 cait jcamins: very useful knowledge - have fun :)
20:56 Dyrcona jcamins: Drop by my place, I'll show you.
21:09 rangi did you know
21:09 rangi pootle can now be hooked into google translate
21:09 wizzyrea whaaaat
21:11 rangi yep
21:11 rangi since 2.1
21:11 rangi http://translate.sourceforge.n[…]chine_translation
21:12 wizzyrea !
21:14 libsysguy I was wondering about that
21:15 libsysguy google translate is getting better
21:15 cait it can't replace a human translator
21:15 rangi nope
21:15 cait it mostly translates to english well
21:15 cait not the other way
21:16 rangi but it can certainly help people understand the english
21:16 rangi by giving a suggestion
21:16 cait of course
21:19 druthb rangi, are you suggesting that we feed it the untranslated stuff, and save the machine-gen stuff as suggested?
21:19 rangi im suggesting we let pootle do that for us :)
21:20 rangi Since version 2.1, Pootle has the ability to use online Machine Translation (MT) Services to give suggestions to translators.
21:20 rangi you basically need an api key
21:20 druthb easy enough.
21:20 rangi and to edit the
21:20 rangi and it should do it
21:20 rangi worth trying i figure
21:20 druthb okie.  I'll add that to my to-do!
21:20 rangi sweet
21:20 druthb Sure!
21:21 eythian hi
21:21 druthb hi, eythian. :)
21:22 * wizzyrea waves hello
21:22 druthb wizzyrea: we got Pixel some anti-anxiety pills from the vet for the trip to Houston, and test-drove one today.  He took it readily, but is high as a kite now.
21:22 wizzyrea LOL!
21:22 druthb He's meowing a lot, and very snuggly.
21:22 wizzyrea i can only imagine.
21:23 druthb but a stranger (to him) was over here earlier, and he actually came out and snuggled with her.  Definitely stoned.
21:23 wizzyrea lol.
21:23 druthb Lindsey took he and Cap to the vet last week, with only minor drama.
21:24 wizzyrea I have had him in the car before - he usually does all right after a short time
21:24 druthb Pixel is in fine health, happy, good weight, and his coat is very nice, according to the vet.  :)
21:24 wizzyrea short drives = vet, long drives he's mostly ok with in my experience
21:24 wizzyrea hehe
21:25 druthb 4.65 kg; he's gained a lil weight.
21:26 wizzyrea *nod*
21:27 druthb I was a lil worried about him when we first adopted him; I'm not near as awesome as you are, so worried he might not settle in well.  But he's fine. :)
21:34 wizzyrea pft, he just needed a chance to get comfortable with his new people :)
21:36 druthb yep.  He *loves* snuggling up to me when I'm in bed reading.
21:37 cait night all :)
21:37 cait left #koha
21:41 drojf rangi: where did you find the machine translation thing? i fail to see that in the pootle changelog
21:44 rangi http://translate.sourceforge.n[…]chine_translation
21:45 drojf thanks!
21:45 tcohen joined #koha
21:46 drojf habemus tcohen
21:46 tcohen that's correct drojf
21:47 mbalmer joined #koha
21:49 drojf ha! you can use apertium as machine translator too. that's cool, it might show up in my thesis somehow
21:49 * drojf is excited
21:49 samuel joined #koha
21:52 drojf i love it when the parallel universes i spend my time in collide from time to time
21:56 samuel hi everybody
21:58 mbalmer left #koha
22:00 tcohen has anyone used Padre
22:01 * drojf tries hard not to make a pope joke
22:01 rangi i tried once and got annoyed and went back to vim tcohen
22:02 tcohen now we got a pope our higher goal is named KohaCon14
22:02 mib_nawbdt joined #koha
22:02 alohabot Hi mib_nawbdt, Welcome to #koha. Feel free to use the '/nick yourname' command to choose a different name. alohabot, wahanui, and huginn are bots. If you need any help, just ask - there's usually someone around to help :)
22:03 rangi tcohen: nice
22:03 rangi tcohen: feel free to start a kohacon14 section on the wiki
22:03 rangi its never too early to start planning
22:04 tcohen rangi, have you tried eclipse+epic?
22:04 rangi yep
22:04 tcohen (for any Perl project)
22:04 tcohen annoyed too?
22:04 rangi it annoyed me too
22:04 rangi yep
22:04 rangi i think if i always worked a the same machine
22:04 rangi i might get less annoyed
22:05 rangi but vim + git suits me pretty well as I am often on different machines
22:05 trea joined #koha
22:06 tcohen and what do u think of Moo BTW?
22:06 tcohen[…]000008/lib/
22:06 mib_nawbdt hi I need some help with leader 00900nam a2200289 i 4500 when I count chars in this marc file i have 895 why?
22:07 rangi tcohen: i like moo and mouse
22:08 rangi after listening to schwern i like mouse probably a bit better
22:08 rangi but moo is cool too
22:10 tcohen hmm Any::MOose
22:10 wahanui rumour has it Any::MOose is available on Debian
22:16 tcohen reading a bit found people that says mouse is heavier than moo, and moo claims to be straightforward to migrate to moose if decided
22:17 tcohen we might choose between one of them for the pre-plack move if moose was to be used by that time
22:20 maximep left #koha
22:22 bag no dcook today eh?
22:22 trea joined #koha
22:25 wizzyrea not yet - he mentioned something about going back to non-koha work
22:26 wizzyrea yesterday
22:26 wahanui rumour has it yesterday is all your troubles seemed so far away
22:38 tcohen hi wizzyrea
22:43 * libsysguy attempts to flash ubuntu touch on his galaxy note 10.1
22:43 libsysguy standby
22:45 drojf good luck
22:45 trea joined #koha
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23:47 wizzyrea http://devopsreactions.tumblr.[…]ter-a-new-release
23:48 wizzyrea http://devopsreactions.tumblr.[…]ecial-corner-case
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