IRC log for #koha, 2013-01-22

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:32 kohum joined #koha
00:32 cait left #koha
00:33 kohum to get 3.10.1 when i put the url in sources.list  should i just put "squeeze" and not "oldstable"
00:34 rangi thats right
00:34 rangi 3.10.2 will be out in a couple of days
00:35 kohum dang.  i got to finish this tonight.
00:35 rangi its easy enough, you can just do apt-get upgrade when 3.10.2 comes out :)
00:36 kohum so "squeeze" will get 3.10.1, right?  or should i use "oldstable"
00:36 kohum for now.
00:36 rangi oldstable will get you the latest 3.8.x release
00:37 rangi stable/squeeze gets you the latest 3.10.x release
00:37 kohum stable/squeeze it is. FYI i am wajasu,
00:40 * wizzyrea waves
00:43 kohum looks like  has both squeeze and old stable point to Dec30th things.
00:48 rangi yep
00:49 rangi because 3.8.8 and 3.10.1 both came out december 22, and packages update december 30th
01:07 kohum joined #koha
01:08 kohum can packages run both opac and staff client on one port  these days?(i.e. 80)  remember i was on 3.0
01:09 rangi you have always been able to
01:09 rangi since koha 1.0
01:09 kohum well i'll be
01:09 rangi just lots of people dont have control of their dns
01:10 rangi ports based is easier than name based virtualhosting if you don't know what you are doing :)
01:10 rangi hlt (the original Koha) has never run on anything other than 80 and 443 in the 12ish years they have been using it :)
01:13 kohum[…]ld_Stable_Version  is what i'm walking through
01:13 kohum INTRASUFFIX="-intra"  must be the differentiator.
01:13 wizzyrea debian packages?
01:13 wahanui debian packages are at
01:13 rangi packages?
01:13 wahanui i heard packages was at
01:13 rangi that one
01:13 wizzyrea yes use that
01:14 wizzyrea man do we need to prune the wiki.
01:14 rangi yep
01:15 kohum but using 8080 might be worth it because the internet pipe is small.
01:18 Irma joined #koha
01:18 jcamins_away kohum: huh?
01:19 eythian kohum: I don't think that makes sense
01:19 jcamins_away ^^ exactly
01:21 wizzyrea explain your reasoning
01:21 kohum if my staff use myhost.domain:8080 from within, the traffic won't go out to the internet router to the internethost.domain:80
01:21 wizzyrea please
01:21 kohum i had a sub 1MB pipe with folks sharing it.
01:21 jcamins_away That reasoning does not make sense.
01:23 jcamins_away Either you are using views, in which case you are not hitting the external interface, no matter what the port is, or you aren't, in which case you are hitting the external interface no matter what if you don't have different domains, or you have different domains anyway in which case the port doesn't matter.
01:23 jcamins_away And now it is time for dinner.
01:24 kohum it is time for dinner.
01:25 wizzyrea dinner and a question - regarding the user flags - I have a mostly done patch to fix up the wording in and around that
01:25 wizzyrea in the menu, it's "set permssions"
01:25 wizzyrea on the page it is "set privileges"
01:25 wizzyrea the button says "set flags"
01:25 wizzyrea which do we like best
01:25 rangi permissions
01:26 * wizzyrea is going to go with permissions until someone says otherwise
01:28 * wizzyrea goes a bit insane looking at the wording around some of those things
01:28 * wizzyrea mutters about "shoulda fixed that ages and ages ago"
01:29 wizzyrea but first... reading history export/report
01:29 wizzyrea then that.
01:29 wahanui then that is all you need
01:42 kohum after koha-create i will load my legacy koha 3.0  and remove all biblios.
01:42 kohum i wonder if/how i can configure ICU
01:44 jcamins_away I have never had problems with that, but other people have sworn it's impossible.
01:58 rangi http://www.librarytechnology.o[…]
01:58 rangi some good gems in there
01:58 rangi koha -- independent tops satisfaction for academic libraries
02:00 rangi the fork is consistently at or close to the bottom
02:02 ibeardslee win
02:02 rangi yup
02:04 rangi Libraries that have implemented Koha independently reflect higher satisfaction than those that rely on commercial support arrangements. One might suppose that this reflects their enthusiasm toward open source and that they are essentially evaluating themselves rather than an external organization. ByWater Solutions continues to reap high praise from their support customers. Libraries using the versions of Koha supplied and supported by LibLime reflected
02:06 rangi http://www.librarytechnology.o[…] interesting too
02:06 rangi specially the comments
02:07 ibeardslee I also note that the system that is at Agent75's school is lower than Koha in the 'Product Satisfaction: All responces'
02:07 wizzyrea ^.^
02:07 rangi :)
02:07 wizzyrea spyyyydussssss
02:08 MrAgent075 joined #koha
02:09 ibeardslee speak of the devil
02:10 ibeardslee MrAgent075: just commenting on http://www.librarytechnology.o[…], comparing your school's system against Koha
02:10 * wizzyrea waves
02:11 MrAgent075 Hello xD
02:11 cjh MrAgent075: welcome!
02:12 wizzyrea welcome *back*
02:13 MrAgent075 Still haven't got that e-mail from Spydus yet... ;D
02:13 cjh heh
02:13 wizzyrea haha geez
02:14 jcamins_away I have a test failing.
02:14 jcamins_away I'm not sure why.
02:15 jcamins_away Oh, fixed it.
02:23 mib_vczt1x joined #koha
02:23 alohabot Hi mib_vczt1x, Welcome to #koha. Feel free to use the '/nick yourname' command to choose a different name.  If you need any help, just ask - there's usually someone around to help :)
02:24 eythian @wunder nzwn
02:24 huginn eythian: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 24.0°C (3:00 PM NZDT on January 22, 2013). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 57%. Dew Point: 15.0°C. Pressure: 30.18 in 1022 hPa (Rising).
02:24 eythian 24 is a bit much really
02:24 * wizzyrea wants to go outside
02:25 * wizzyrea thinks 24 is the most perfectly perfect day she can possibly imagine
02:25 * MrAgent075 agrees.
02:26 jcamins_away @later tell mtj Could you please have alohabot tell mib_ers that it, wahanui, and huginn are bots?
02:26 huginn jcamins_away: The operation succeeded.
02:27 wizzyrea hurried commit messages are so funny
02:28 wizzyrea "Bug 9382 - updating permission labels
02:28 wizzyrea To test:
02:28 wizzyrea do stuff.
02:28 wizzyrea "
02:28 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9382 trivial, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Bold necessary permissions for staff client access.
02:28 wizzyrea oh that makes me laugh
02:28 cjh heh
02:28 wizzyrea (I did that, by the way)
02:30 eythian wizzyrea: the Kapai place on Cuba does good gelato shakes. I recommend them.
02:30 wizzyrea Ooooo
02:30 wizzyrea gelato shakes!
02:33 mib_vczt1x joined #koha
02:33 alohabot Hi mib_vczt1x, Welcome to #koha. Feel free to use the '/nick yourname' command to choose a different name.  If you need any help, just ask - there's usually someone around to help :)
02:33 wizzyrea for the time being, what is the "best" or "most correct" way to do database updates?
02:34 wizzyrea I think I have it mostly sorted
02:34 wizzyrea I have the bit in updatedatabase
02:34 rangi yep
02:34 wizzyrea but I just don't know where to change version numbers and where not to
02:34 rangi you never change numbers
02:34 rangi just make it XXX
02:35 rangi and never touch
02:35 wizzyrea hm ok I did that but my update never went. I'll try it again (it was late in the day when I last tried it)
02:35 jcamins_away Unless you are talking about as RMaint.
02:36 MrAgent075 wizzyrea: Bug 9382? Completely Trivial.. xD
02:36 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9382 trivial, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Bold necessary permissions for staff client access.
02:36 wizzyrea :)
02:36 wizzyrea well, actually
02:36 rangi just hit the update url manually, it wont trigger unless you mess with the version numbers, and you dont want to do that
02:37 wizzyrea the omnibus that my patch is going to end up being is less trivial.
02:37 rangi or run koha-update-schema if you use packages
02:37 wizzyrea ohhhhh I forgot about that
02:37 wizzyrea see this is why I ask.
02:37 wizzyrea ^.^
02:37 wizzyrea thanks :)
02:43 alohabot joined #koha
02:43 jcamins_away ^^ new syspref caching.
02:44 mtj ^^ hi jcamins_away, alohabot fixed  :)
02:44 jcamins_away Thanks!
02:44 jcamins_away Wait, no, just kidding.
02:45 jcamins_away There we go.
02:45 jcamins_away Now it has new caching.
02:46 jcamins_away It's too inefficient, though.
02:46 * jcamins_away will work on that.
02:46 mtj haay, whats specifically being cached?
02:46 jcamins_away Sysprefs.
02:46 wahanui sysprefs are "System Preferences", found on my Koha admin homepage
02:47 jcamins_away How do I use NYTProf with Plack...
02:47 mtj aah ok, using memcached - or other?
02:47 jcamins_away Got it.
02:47 jcamins_away I don't remember, actually.
02:47 jcamins_away I'll check.
02:47 mtj :p
02:48 jcamins_away fastmmap.
02:48 jcamins_away Hold on while I mess with NYTProf.
02:48 mtj oooh, thats a new one
02:48 mtj np, bork away...
02:49 jcamins_away I see.
02:50 jcamins_away expunge is wrong.
02:54 jcamins_away purge, rather.
02:54 jcamins_away Okay, so, problem with fastmmap.
02:54 jcamins_away It's inefficient because it resorts the cache twice.
02:55 jcamins_away memcached does not have this flaw.
02:55 jcamins_away Naturally.
03:03 mtj hmm, weird behaviour -  the doco doesnt mention Cache::FastMmap doing  any sorting
03:04 jcamins_away Of course it does.
03:04 jcamins_away It's a hash.
03:09 mtj i always thought hashes were not sorted - by default, in perl
03:10 cjh afaik the keys are not guranteed to come out in any kind of order.
03:10 eythian hashes aren't sorted in a predictable fashion
03:10 mtj 'The keys of a hash are returned in an apparently random order.'  ->
03:11 eythian but they are still ordered
03:11 eythian just not an order useful for you
03:12 mtj 'Since Perl 5.8.1 the ordering can be different even between different runs of Perl for security reasons '
03:13 jcamins_away hashes are sorted by definition.
03:13 jcamins_away That's what makes them useful.
03:14 eythian I don't think I'd call them sorted.
03:14 eythian Their sort order isn't useful for anything except themselves.
03:14 jcamins_away eythian: sure they are.
03:14 jcamins_away They're sorted into a heap.
03:15 jcamins_away It may be there's a better term for that.
03:15 eythian uhm
03:15 eythian they're in the heap in the sense that heap is used for memory storage in general
03:16 jcamins_away They don't use b-tree heaps?
03:17 eythian For collision resolution?
03:17 cjh if you take the hash of the key and sort them, the order is not necessarily the same as the order you would get by sorting the keys.
03:18 eythian they might use trees internally, but trees aren't ideal except in not so common cases.
03:19 cjh I was guessing it would be a hash-based offset into an array, possibly with variable hash length or something else more fun.
03:19 jcamins_away Hm.
03:19 jcamins_away In that case, Cache::FastMmap is not using a hash.
03:20 eythian Perl hashs are an array pointing to linked list, according to the source code.
03:20 * jcamins_away is having his first look into xs code.
03:20 jcamins_away It's painful.
03:20 eythian I don't think I've had to do that before.
03:20 eythian I'm OK with that.
03:20 jcamins_away lol
03:21 jcamins_away Understandably.
03:21 cjh the perl source is still downloading for me :(
03:21 jcamins_away My favorite is the way they decided not to have any comprehensible variable names.
03:21 eythian cjh: all you need is hv.c
03:21 jcamins_away Because 'sv' 'pv' 'mu' 'pl' and 'hv' make oh so much sense.
03:22 cjh eythian: where are you looking at it though?
03:22 eythian[…]K/perl-5.8.8/hv.c
03:22 jcamins_away I think that's scalar value, pointer value, [no idea], [perl?], and hash value.
03:23 eythian jcamins_away: mu is undefined.
03:23 eythian <-- the most undefined value in perl 6, in fact :)
03:23 cjh hahaha
03:24 jcamins_away Okay, expiration *should* work.
03:24 jcamins_away According to the code.
03:25 jcamins_away I only had to go through five files until I found where it checked expiration.
03:35 jcamins_away Hm.
03:35 jcamins_away It should work.
03:35 jcamins_away Really.
03:35 sivoais joined #koha
03:43 eythian <-- creepy
03:43 wizzyrea brains are awesome
03:44 eythian go well with truffles
03:47 mtj has anyone spotted the 2012 'churn' stats on libwebcats?
03:48 rangi the turnover yep
03:48 rangi http://www.librarytechnology.o[…]
03:48 rangi that one?
03:48 rangi http://www.librarytechnology.o[…] <-- its pretty much realtime
03:49 wizzyrea wait no one left bywater last year?
03:49 wizzyrea hot diggity.
03:49 mtj perfect, thanks chris
03:50 rangi mtj: you saw the perceptions write up eh?
03:52 jcamins_away Oh, for crying out loud!
03:52 jcamins_away I figured out the problem.
03:52 mtj rangi, yeah - i just read them :)
03:52 jcamins_away If you are depending on your code to take at least one second to run and then use a faster cache...
03:53 jcamins_away all the tests go to hell.
03:59 jcamins_away Add one second to your sleep statements, and everything works beautifully.
03:59 eythian heh
03:59 rangi heh
04:01 jcamins_away Hm.
04:01 jcamins_away NYTProf under Plack does not like git installs.
04:34 jcamins_away This is weird. perlcritic is complaining that I don't unpack @_ first, and I do.
04:34 jcamins_away Oh!
04:34 jcamins_away I see.
04:36 jcamins_away I'm down to just one complaint:
04:42 jcamins_away mtj: (or anyone else) BTW, if you're curious:[…]fs/heads/cachetie
04:42 * jcamins_away goes to bed.
04:44 mtj nice!,  i'll take a proper look in a bit...
04:44 mtj jcamins++
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06:42 * magnuse waves
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07:22 cait morning #koha
07:28 reiveune joined #koha
07:29 reiveune hello
07:34 magnuse hiya cait and reiveune et al
07:34 reiveune hi everybody
07:35 magnuse looks like paul_p was having a good time at a conference yesterday? :-)
07:35 qu-bit joined #koha
07:41 alex_a bonjour
07:41 wahanui hello, alex_a
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08:48 alohabot Hi mib_n3b4bq, Welcome to #koha. Feel free to use the '/nick yourname' command to choose a different name. alohabot, wahanui, and huginn are bots. If you need any help, just ask - there's usually someone around to help :)
08:48 mib_n3b4bq hii
08:49 mib_n3b4bq need some help about zebra reindexing
08:50 mib_n3b4bq installed centos 6.2-32 bits and koha 3.8 and zebra 2.0
08:51 mib_n3b4bq zebra reindexing is not working
08:51 mib_n3b4bq with manual and also with cron
08:52 mib_n3b4bq full indexing is working with -r option
08:55 mib_n3b4bq any help ? what is to be check
09:08 govind joined #koha
09:08 govind hello
09:09 govind how to install koha on ubuntu 12.04
09:18 gerundio joined #koha
09:18 kf packages?
09:18 wahanui well, packages is at
09:18 kf govind: see link :)
10:33 gerundio joined #koha
11:00 gerundio joined #koha
11:45 vfernandes joined #koha
11:45 vfernandes good morning all :)
11:47 kf hi vfernandes
11:47 vfernandes it's today that I will finish the 3.10 translations to portuguese :D 99%
11:47 kf yay!
11:48 vfernandes right in time to the release of 3.10 new subversion
11:48 kf :)
11:54 gerundio joined #koha
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11:57 drojf hi #koha
11:58 kf hi drojf
11:58 drojf hi kf :)
11:58 kf :)
12:01 gerundio hey drojf
12:01 drojf hi gerundio
12:02 drojf ugh. somebody in the library keeps sneezing and sneezing
12:10 qu-bit_ joined #koha
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12:34 kf drojf: distracting? :)
12:38 magnuse or contagious...
12:44 drojf lol
12:44 drojf it stopped
12:44 drojf or he left
12:44 drojf some people started to laugh
12:44 drojf so i had sneezing from one side and laughing from the other :D
12:45 jcamins_away drojf: both distracting and contagious!
12:46 drojf i think i should enable ICU. i wish we had a google group to teach me how
12:47 jcamins_away Hehe.
12:49 vfernandes 3.10 fully translated to portuguese :D
12:50 vfernandes OMG i have almost 30K commits...
12:53 NateC joined #koha
12:55 kf drojf: maybe you should have your own google group
12:57 drojf oh. that might be the solution to all my problems
12:58 drojf or was that alcohol? :D
12:59 drojf i think a wise man once said "to alcohol, the cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems"
13:04 kf drojf: as long as its gluten free...
13:05 drojf booze usually is ;)
13:05 drojf i miss beer :(
13:06 kf there once will be drinkable gluten free beer
13:06 drojf when are the old bugs coming?
13:06 kf hm not sure
13:06 kf are all the old old bugs there?
13:06 kf slef slef slef *summon*
13:07 drojf i don't really think i'd have time for that today but just in case i get bored with paid work… ;)
13:08 kf you could go on and fix someof the old bugs if you get bored ;)
13:08 drojf i would probably look at bug 4888 again
13:08 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4888 enhancement, PATCH-Sent (DO NOT USE), ---, salva, Patch doesn't apply , pre-set of field indicators value
13:08 drojf i'd like to resurrect it
13:10 kf sounds like a ogod iea
13:10 kf hm with less typos
13:10 drojf lol
13:11 vkm joined #koha
13:11 drojf how is the "icu_chain locale" used? is it used at all. i think it cannot be empty, but apart from that?
13:11 jcamins_away I do not believe it has any impact.
13:11 drojf "is it used at all?" is supposed to be a question
13:11 kf i think jcamins_away did some tests
13:11 kf ah
13:11 kf there he is
13:11 drojf ok, thanks
13:12 vkm Z39.50 is not working 3.8.8, i am using over the intranet so pls let me know the problem or need any additional setting
13:12 jcamins_away vkm: what isn't working?
13:13 vkm it does not search documents always says, nothing found and connection time out
13:13 jcamins_away What hosts are you using?
13:13 vkm 80 for opac and 8080 for staff
13:14 jcamins_away What Z39.50 hosts are you using?
13:15 vkm1 joined #koha
13:15 jcamins_away What Z39.50 hosts are you using?
13:15 vkm1 i am using host 80 for opac and 8080 for staff, but z3950 is not fetching any result
13:16 jcamins_away I don't know what that means.
13:16 drojf is word-phrase-utf.chr completely unneccessary/ unneeded with ICU? or do i have to turn all the things in there into some magic words-icu.xml format?
13:16 jcamins_away You just told me the port numbers you are using for your OPAC and staff client.
13:16 jcamins_away That has nothing to do with Z39.50.
13:16 jcamins_away drojf: that is correct. word-phrase-utf.chr is not used by ICU.
13:17 vkm2 joined #koha
13:17 jcamins_away vkm1: when you say "Z39.50" does not work, what does that mean?
13:17 vkm2 i am using 80 for opac and 8080 for staff
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13:19 jcamins_away vkm3: I know that, and but what does that have to do with Z39.50?
13:19 vkm3 it says no data found in LOC etc
13:19 vkm3 means data is available on loc but why it does not fething
13:20 vkm3 it always never fetch for data
13:20 jcamins_away Okay.
13:20 jcamins_away What _hosts_ are you searching?
13:20 jcamins_away LOC?
13:20 jcamins_away Somewhere else?
13:24 vkm3 loc host is and port is 7090, mine port for staff access is 8080
13:25 jcamins_away I don't need to know what port you are using. What boxes are you checking when searching Z39.50?
13:25 jcamins_away LOC?
13:25 jcamins_away Something else?
13:25 jcamins_away vkm3: based on how many times you've been disconnected in the last few minutes, the most likely problem is that your internet connection is not stable enough for Z39.50.
13:26 jcamins_away It could also be that your firewall is not allowing the connection to port 7090.
13:26 vkm3 you may be right, our internet is having so many public IP which always changes during the browsing
13:27 jcamins_away Z39.50 cannot handle that.
13:29 vkm3 i am checking all three boxes for three z39 server and feeding nanotechnology in tile only
13:30 jcamins_away Which three boxes are they?
13:30 vkm3 even searching in LOC only it gives same result, nothing found and connection time out
13:30 jcamins_away So there are two possibilities: 1) your Internet connection, and 2) there is a firewall blocking that port.
13:30 jcamins_away Or those ports.
13:31 jcamins_away There's nothing you can do from Koha to address either of those issues.
13:31 vkm3 columbia, smithsonian and LOC
13:31 jcamins_away Okay, I use all of those regularly and they work, so it's not a problem with the servers.
13:31 jcamins_away Sorry- I wish I had better news for you.
13:36 vkm3 so should i contact to our computer center or i can enable firwall from koha server
13:37 jcamins_away You'll have to contact your computer center.
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13:41 vkm3 ok, one more thing my hold limit is always picking limit from system preference setup not from circulation previleges
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14:04 nengard hey all, anyone know what table the log of notices sent to patrons is kept in (the Notices tab on the patron's record shows these)
14:06 druthb the message_queue.
14:06 wahanui the message_queue is good for reporting
14:06 * druthb pokes wahanui with her pointy stick
14:07 nengard thanks
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14:09 druthb kf:  Got your permissions error cleared up.
14:10 vkm3 is it possible to restrict purchase sugession users category wise?
14:11 vkm3 i.e only perticular category can place purchase sugession
14:12 druthb vkm3: Not currently,'s either on for everyone, or off for everyone.
14:14 kf druthb: thx
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14:20 gerundio vfernandes, are you around?
14:24 gerundio guys, I'm trying to signoff a patch
14:24 paul_p joined #koha
14:24 gerundio can I do it on a production like installation?
14:25 gerundio I finished installing a pre-production/development koha instance
14:26 gerundio in order for it to be as similar as the production setup as possible I chose to install in /usr/share/koha with and /etc/koha
14:27 gerundio and not the option for a development environment where the source package directory would be used
14:27 gerundio so now I guess I can apply patches directly as stated in[…]gn_off_on_patches, right?
14:28 kf gerundio: not sure I am following you
14:29 gerundio there are 2 flavours of koha setups, right?
14:29 kf but I think you can't apply patches to an installation done as standard
14:29 kf in opposite to dev
14:29 kf because the file paths will be wron
14:29 kf g
14:29 gerundio exactly
14:30 gerundio after unpacking the source tar.gz the directory structure is "all at the same level" so to speak
14:30 gerundio which match the patches' paths
14:31 gerundio so the next question that comes to mind is, what is the right way to apply a patch on a production environment?
14:33 mtj gerundio, the short answer is … there isnt :/
14:34 kf gerundio: production environments are ot dev environments... supposed to run stable code
14:34 mtj (… its one on my big peeves with koha currently)
14:34 kf gerundio: I think what others do is building their own packages
14:35 kf gerundio:  you apply the patch to a dev installation, you bilt no packages and deploy them to your production system
14:35 kf hope I explained that right :)
14:35 drojf joined #koha
14:35 gerundio you did
14:36 magnuse[…]es_-_The_Easy_Way
14:36 gerundio just not sure how the patch package building works
14:36 drojf joined #koha
14:36 gerundio and magnuse for the saving :D
14:36 drojf grr
14:37 kf he beat drojf to it
14:37 drojf ?
14:37 kf ah, you were referring to your wobbly internet connection... never mind .)
14:37 kf gerundio: I have done it to test package related patches, it seems to work
14:38 drojf works for me
14:39 drojf do i have to reindex after adding 880 linking fields?
14:39 magnuse gah! #marcmustdie!
14:39 gerundio btw, the only difference between the dev environment and the production one is the location of the files?
14:40 magnuse bibsys uses subfield 700$ø for something, and now i have <subfield code="�">trois mousquetaires</subfield> in my marc blobs...
14:40 gerundio after this talk I'm thinking of setting up a proper dev installation to test patches and such
14:40 drojf 700$ø ?
14:40 drojf lol
14:40 kf 880 is not indexed by default :(
14:40 magnuse gerundio: sounds like an excellent idea ;-)
14:40 kf magnuse: it might be valid, check marc documentation :P
14:40 magnuse drojf: no lol, just sob...
14:40 kf magnuse: inf act I think you can use some weird things there
14:41 drojf kf: what? as in, you have to add the index to zebra?
14:41 magnuse kf: well, it seems koha (or probably zebra) does not like it...
14:41 drojf i don't remember doing that
14:41 gerundio if I use a clone DB from the production I'll be able to have a pre-production like environment, right?
14:41 kf drojf: exactly as in that
14:41 drojf magnuse: isn't that an encoding problem and not marc's fault (this time)?
14:42 drojf kf: meh
14:42 kf drojf: I had hoped it would be part of the dom indexing
14:42 kf drojf: but I think there was no time to include it
14:42 drojf make it! make it now!
14:42 drojf :(
14:42 gerundio kf++ magnuse++ mtj++ drojf++
14:42 kf drojf: dom would make it really interesting because then you coudl split 880 and assign them to the proper indexes (author, title... )
14:42 magnuse drojf: it's all MARC's fault in my eyes ;-)
14:43 drojf magnuse: you are probably right :D
14:46 drojf omg the sneezing starts again
14:47 magnuse and i wouldn't mind 700$ø if it wasn't for the fact that records that contains that field gives an ugly "utf8 "\xC3" does not map to Unicode at /usr/lib/perl/5.10/ line 174." when you do a search that turns up one of them
14:58 chris_n joined #koha
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15:03 drojf @&!))(=?!§$
15:03 huginn drojf: I've exhausted my database of quotes
15:04 kf magnuse: ouch.
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15:09 magnuse and yes, emptying some 700$ø fields made that error go away
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15:23 vfernandes need help: configure Z39.50 for Koha?
15:24 vfernandes I want to "expose" my record via Z39.50... there is any wiki to do that?
15:26 drojf vfernandes: you have to edit koha-conf.xml, i think there are comments with explanations
15:27 vfernandes but I have to install something?
15:28 drojf z39.50 server is done by zebra, so i think no
15:29 kf vfernandes: no additional installation needed (I have tested it sometime ago, works nicely :) )
15:30 drojf icu seems to work. which is not that useful without 880 of course :/
15:31 vfernandes in which version?
15:31 wahanui in which version is, like, it possible
15:31 drojf vfernandes: i don't understand your question
15:32 gerundio just finished some operations regarding the setup of the dev environment
15:32 vfernandes works on 3.2 for example?
15:32 gerundio 1st access to the web installer and I get this error:
15:32 gerundio Template process failed: file error - /usr/share/koha/intranet/htdocs/intranet​-tmpl/prog/en/modules/installer/ not found at (...)/C4/ line 127.
15:32 drojf 3.2 is really old so i have no idea. but my guess is that it does not make a difference how old koha is but what version of zebra you use
15:33 vfernandes zebra is the last version
15:34 gerundio any idea what's the origin of this error?
15:35 drojf vfernandes: have you looked at koha-conf.xml? if it has a part about z39.50 i guess you are good to go
15:36 drojf gerundio: if you have set it up with git then you have to change some paths. because your koha should not be uin /usr/share/koha
15:37 gerundio I used a tar.gz not git
15:37 gerundio I'm looking at the koha-conf.xml and all paths seem fine
15:37 drojf ok that is different. and i don't know about your error
15:38 gerundio neither does google for that matter :D
15:40 drojf did you get a tar.gz of master? maybe it's broken at the moment?
15:40 kf could be broken templates
15:40 kf old translation file
15:41 kf gerundio: are you looking at 'not english'?
15:41 gerundio don't have any additional language set
15:41 kf and there is none installed?
15:41 kf in hte system?
15:41 gerundio kf, it's a clean install
15:42 gerundio drojf, not tar.gz from the master... got the one for koha-3.08.05
15:44 gerundio kf, your a saviour
15:44 drojf what did you mean by dev then?
15:44 gerundio memcached from the previous installation :D
15:44 gerundio kf++
15:45 kf gerundio: I didn't tell you memcache, all your own idea .)
15:45 SJeffery joined #koha
15:45 drojf (16:30:11) gerundio: just finished some operations regarding the setup of the dev environment
15:45 drojf i thought you are talking about a koha dev version
15:45 gerundio I know, but the hints about a previous installation did the trick
15:46 gerundio drojf, dev as in a environment with the same version I currently have in production
15:46 gerundio but installed with the dev option
15:46 gerundio so I test patches and create the packages
15:48 gerundio just not the standard definition for dev you have in mind I guess :)
15:48 oleonard joined #koha
15:48 oleonard Hi #koha
15:49 drojf hi oleonard
15:51 SJeffery Can anyone explain why in the frameworks editor there would be no subfields in the 008 field even in the default framework (though they appear in the cataloging module)? What is the solution, add them in manually to have them recognized?
15:51 druthb Fields below 010 do not have subfields, in the MARC standard.
15:52 SJeffery So how do I edit the defaults for "fixed length data elements - general information"?
15:53 kf SJeffery: you can't
15:54 rambutan joined #koha
15:54 kf SJeffery: well you can, but you have to give a default for the whole field and the plugins may not play nicely
15:55 SJeffery Well that is certainly odd:)
15:55 JesseM joined #koha
15:55 druthb In the MARC Framework Editor, it shows a subfield "@", which is the whole could give it a default there, but see kf's note there.
15:55 kf SJeffery: the subfield you can do that for is @ because it is no subfield structure in the field
15:56 SJeffery I am going to chalk this one up to "features of Koha that were (oddly) never developed"
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16:00 reiveune bye
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16:35 sturmtruppen hi everyone. when i click on "Mark bibliographic framework test" i get "invalid authority types". I do nothing after Debian installation by packages
16:41 sturmtruppen no idea?
16:51 laurence left #koha
16:51 sturmtruppen ok, how can i add a library?
16:52 sturmtruppen sorry, wrong idea... add a z3950 server...
16:54 sturmtruppen find it, no need answer
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17:12 jcamins_away I set defaults for 008 all the time.
17:12 jcamins_away I have had zero problems with it.
17:23 cait joined #koha
17:34 gerundio chris_n, I've heard you're the person to talk to in terms of labels... did I heard correctly? :)
17:38 oleonard gerundio: chris_n did most of the original work, but as far as I know isn't continuing development of the feature.
17:39 gerundio ok oleonard
17:39 wahanui i guess oleonard is not really here.  He said so.  He did!
17:39 gerundio any idea who I might talk to regarding this feature?
17:40 jcamins_away chris_n is the closest you're going to find to an expert.
17:41 jcamins_away He's pretty expert.
17:41 libsysguy pro
17:41 oleonard gerundio: I said what I said in case you were going to ask "Could you make it do this...?" :)
17:42 gerundio not really
17:43 gerundio I'm having troubles with label printing
17:43 rambutan oleonard et al: I have this note in my notes: " add autocomplete="off" to borrowernumbers and barcode forms". It's not clear to me now what I meant then. Can anybody decypher that?
17:43 gerundio I'm getting empty XML and CSV files when I export
17:43 gerundio and just a blurry PDF
17:44 oleonard rambutan: We add that attribute to input fields which receive book or patron barcodes
17:44 gerundio I wasn't able to find any info on that subject
17:44 gerundio and someone pointed me to chris_n
17:45 rambutan so is that a syspref or setting somewhere?
17:45 oleonard rambutan: It's a template authoring practice/guideline.
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18:06 chris_n heya gerundio
18:06 wahanui gerundio are you moving principal_name to auth_by_dn_bind
18:07 gerundio wahanui, ?!? in that LDAP bug ticket?
18:07 wahanui gerundio: bugger all, i dunno
18:07 gerundio hey chris_n, read up if you can
18:07 nengard joined #koha
18:08 gerundio wahanui, look at bug 7973
18:08 wahanui gerundio: huh?
18:08 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7973 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, Needs Signoff , Allow for new type of LDAP authentication
18:08 chris_n gerundio: well, besides learning that I'm an expert, I also learned you are having label issues
18:08 gerundio that's right
18:08 wahanui no it's not.
18:08 chris_n what do you mean by "blurry PDF"?
18:09 * chris_n tells wahanui to put a cap on it or a plug in it
18:09 * gerundio has been caught me off guard by the bot
18:09 gerundio instead of a well defined barcode I get a blurry one
18:09 chris_n the bot is good at doing that
18:10 gerundio with no barcode other info on it
18:10 chris_n strange
18:10 chris_n what version of koha are you using?
18:10 chris_n we're using the latest stable release without issues
18:10 gerundio 3.8.5
18:11 gerundio the weirdest part, as I've been told, is that the feature works as expected for imported records
18:11 chris_n I'm not aware of any issues in 3.8.x
18:11 gerundio but for the new catalogued items it doesn't
18:11 chris_n so its just locally created records which manifest the problem
18:12 gerundio yeah, I've looked for any reference and didn't found any either
18:12 gerundio yes
18:12 chris_n strange indeed
18:12 chris_n any chance you can send along some of the "broken" records in marc format for me to look at?
18:12 gerundio let me see if I can put an example somewhere for you to look at
18:12 chris_n ok
18:13 * chris_n wonders if jacamins_away noticed the plot against cats in nz?
18:13 wizzyrea joined #koha
18:13 chris_n jcamins_away rather
18:14 gerundio does it help if I give you URLs in my OPAC for 1 record that works and 1 that doesn't?
18:14 chris_n we can see
18:14 jcamins_away chris_n: I did not. There's a plot against cats in NZ?!?
18:15 chris_n <chris_n> [off] ouch...[…]-thought-18281918
18:15 gerundio chris_n, working:[…]iblionumber=32210 not working:[…]iblionumber=60855
18:15 jcamins_away Wow.
18:15 * chris_n looks
18:16 chris_n jcamins_away: I'm sure we can depend on rangi and wizzyrea to put a stop to it
18:17 gerundio ??
18:18 jcamins_away gerundio: the cats are eating the birds.
18:18 gerundio home owned cats?
18:18 jcamins_away Apparently.
18:18 * jcamins_away has an indoor cat.
18:18 gerundio so people are feeding those birds to their cats?
18:19 jcamins_away We should ask rangi and wizzyrea why they're letting their cats out to eat birds. ;)
18:20 gerundio jcamins_away, are you giving tweety to your sylvester?
18:20 jcamins_away gerundio: hehe.
18:20 * jcamins_away would, if it weren't for the fact that the battle would get feathers everywhere.
18:20 jcamins_away We're both very allergic to feathers.
18:20 jcamins_away :P
18:20 gerundio call me crazy, but lets say ppl don't get a replacement cat like he's saying
18:21 gerundio what's the probability for a stray cat to eat a bird VS a home cat of doing it?
18:21 jcamins_away I would think that the house cats would not make a significant difference.
18:21 gerundio chris_n, any breakthrough regarding those records?
18:21 druthb My two indoor cats are so terrified of the outside that it's not an issue.
18:21 jcamins_away Myshkin likes the idea of going outside.
18:23 gerundio druthb, I ear you... I've heard a lot of reports on that behaviour from the felines
18:24 druthb My big one...if you try to take him outside, you *will* need first-aid.  He's almost 10 kg, and has all his claws.  When he gets upset, he's quite a handful.
18:26 rangi Home cats kill a huge number of birds
18:26 jcamins_away rangi: are stray cats not a problem in NZ?
18:26 rangi Not really no
18:27 druthb Different part of the world.  I didn't hardly see any stray cats in Mumbai, either.  *tons* of stray dogs, but sekjal and I only spotted a few cats.
18:27 chris_n gerundio: still looking
18:27 rangi Stoats and possums are a bigger problem
18:27 jcamins_away In Astoria, where we lived in a small enough building that we could see the cats wandering around, there was one pet cat that went outside, and about two dozen strays.
18:28 gerundio chris_n, thanks for the time :)
18:28 rangi Dudes a rich white economist
18:28 rangi Who is a super troll
18:28 rangi Best to just ignore him
18:28 jcamins_away Our landlord's girlfriend was trying to socialize them enough to catch them and get them fixed.
18:29 chris_n gerundio: can you post a shot of a messed up label?
18:29 rangi Economists somehow think they have a divine right to pontificate about stuff they know nothing about
18:29 chris_n +1
18:30 jcamins_away rangi: wait... you mean the degree doesn't come with a card that allows them to do that?!?
18:30 rangi Hehe
18:30 druthb rangi:  Working on your pull requests now.  Okay to include a patch to the About/Translation page in there?
18:30 rangi Sure is
18:30 rangi Thanks
18:31 druthb Okie.  I'll need to send that *same* patch into master, too, Mr. jcamins_away RM-ly dude.
18:31 jcamins_away Thanks.
18:31 rangi Yep
18:33 gerundio chris_n, here:
18:34 chris_n gerundio: which record is that from?
18:35 chris_n and what is the size of your label?
18:35 jenkins_koha Starting build #262 for job Koha_Docs (previous build: STILL FAILING -- last SUCCESS #60 8 mo 29 days ago)
18:35 jenkins_koha Starting build #6 for job Koha_Docs_3.10.x (previous build: STILL FAILING)
18:35 jenkins_koha Project Koha_Docs build #262: STILL FAILING in 1 min 6 sec: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]ob/Koha_Docs/262/
18:35 chris_n it looks like you've run amuck of the scaling problem
18:35 jenkins_koha nengard: link to search indexes chart
18:35 jenkins_koha Project Koha_Docs_3.10.x build #6: STILL FAILING in 1 min 6 sec: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]ha_Docs_3.10.x/6/
18:35 jenkins_koha nengard: link to search indexes chart
18:35 jenkins_koha Starting build #14 for job Koha_Docs_3.8.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
18:35 gerundio chris_n, 2.5 x 5.1 cm if I'm not mistaken
18:36 jenkins_koha Project Koha_Docs_3.8.x build #14: SUCCESS in 19 sec: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]ha_Docs_3.8.x/14/
18:36 jenkins_koha nengard: link to search indexes chart
18:36 gerundio the record is the one I pasted before as the one that failed:[…]iblionumber=60855
18:41 gerundio chris_n, here the resulting PDF from batch with 3 records
18:41 gerundio[…]60_7327347_279773
18:43 gerundio 1st item barcode: 0037307 (works), 2nd: 0076742 (doesn't work) and 3rd: 0032358 (works)
18:43 talljoy joined #koha
18:43 gerundio 1st and 3rd records are from the import we've done using the MARC import tool
18:44 gerundio the 2nd record is a new one created using the new record cataloguing feature
18:46 chris_n gerundio: well, it looks like a broken record, but I'm not sure what is broken without throwing a lot of time at it
18:46 gerundio ok, just give me some hints on where I can debug the issue
18:46 chris_n we create in house records many times without any issues
18:47 druthb jcamins_away: Do you want me to create a *bug* for the update to the, or just send you the patch?
18:47 jcamins_away Stick it on the bug.
18:47 jcamins_away @query about
18:47 huginn jcamins_away: Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=2705 enhancement, P3, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Patron import should warn about invalid characters
18:47 huginn jcamins_away: Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6735 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, colin.campbell, NEW , Note about range isn't showing range
18:47 huginn jcamins_away: Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8404 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Show additional information about borrowers on routing list
18:47 huginn jcamins_away: Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7750 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, nengard, NEW , Release notes for stable releases should be in Master
18:47 huginn jcamins_away: Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5968 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , News display on is particular about browser language settings
18:48 druthb 9418?
18:48 wahanui 9418 is the usual git port.
18:48 jcamins_away Bug 7143.
18:48 wahanui bug 7143 is probably ready for an easy signoff
18:48 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7143 trivial, P5 - low, ---,, Pushed to Master , Bug for tracking changes to the about page
18:48 druthb Ah!
18:48 mib_2g34hj joined #koha
18:48 alohabot Hi mib_2g34hj, Welcome to #koha. Feel free to use the '/nick yourname' command to choose a different name. alohabot, wahanui, and huginn are bots. If you need any help, just ask - there's usually someone around to help :)
18:48 chris_n gerundio: something appears to be amiss with the record  in such a way that the fields are not retrieved properly when creating the label, so I'd say to start
18:48 chris_n in the script
18:48 chris_n[…]feaacb604;hb=HEAD
18:49 chris_n maybe dump the contents of the label object once it is created and see if anything is missing/messed up
18:49 gerundio ok
18:49 chris_n then work back from there
18:49 gerundio thanks a lot, I'll do that
18:49 gerundio chris_n++
18:50 gerundio got to go now
18:50 chris_n I have plans to move the creator foo from pdf to the browser using css.... just not time to do it
18:50 chris_n np
18:50 chris_n good luck
18:50 gerundio bye all, cya tomorrow
18:52 * chris_n notes that keeping one's house cat feed with domestic mice seems to offset the cat's appetite for birds
18:52 chris_n not that it matters much... except the mice are not as messy
18:55 Willliam joined #koha
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18:57 Brooke o/
18:58 William #info william
18:58 rangi William: hasn't started yet :)
18:58 William OK Thanks
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19:02 rangi #startmeeting
19:02 wahanui if there is a meeting then Brooke must want me
19:02 huginn rangi: Error: A meeting name is required, e.g., '#startmeeting Marketing Committee'
19:02 wahanui i already had it that way, huginn.
19:02 rangi #startmeeting Kohacon13
19:02 huginn Meeting started Tue Jan 22 19:00:32 2013 UTC.  The chair is rangi. Information about MeetBot at
19:02 huginn Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
19:02 Topic for #koha is now  (Meeting topic: Kohacon13)
19:02 huginn The meeting name has been set to 'kohacon13'
19:02 rangi #topic introductions
19:02 wahanui #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient
19:02 Topic for #koha is now introductions (Meeting topic: Kohacon13)
19:03 rangi #info Chris Cormack, Catalyst IT, RMaint 3.8.x and 3.10.x
19:03 oleonard #info Owen Leonard, Athens County Public Libraries
19:03 cait #info Katrin Fischer
19:03 libsysguy #info Elliott Davis, ByWater Solutions, QAA 3.12, Houston Tx
19:03 nancyk #chair nancyk
19:03 jcamins_away #info Jared Camins-Esakov, C & P Bibliography Services, RM 3.12
19:04 slef #info MJ Ray,, England, kohacon12 co-host
19:04 druthb #info D Ruth Bavousett, ByWater Solutions, TM 3.12
19:04 melia #info Melia Meggs, ByWater Solutions
19:04 aqualaptop joined #koha
19:04 rangi that everybody?
19:05 slef rangi: do you need to #addchair nancyk?
19:05 nancyk shall we start?
19:05 drojf #info Mirko Tietgen
19:05 drojf i accidentally into a meeting :D
19:05 slef drojf: ErrNoVerb
19:05 rangi #addchair nancyk
19:05 rangi i dont think that does anything slef
19:05 nancyk #addchair nancyk
19:05 nancyk ok
19:06 rangi #topic what needs to be done?
19:06 Topic for #koha is now what needs to be done? (Meeting topic: Kohacon13)
19:06 rangi over to you nancyk
19:06 slef rangi: hrm... I thought it let nancyk use #topic and so on
19:06 * slef RTFMs
19:06 nancyk #topic
19:06 nancyk #topic What needs to be done?
19:06 cait :)
19:07 nancyk #topic how about an update?
19:07 cait hm looks like only the one starting the meeting can do it?
19:07 rangi im going off the agenda here[…],_22_January_2013
19:08 slef #link[…],_22_January_2013
19:08 rangi so we are at what needs to be done .. do you want to talk about that nancyk ?
19:08 nancyk #info we are still waiting on the contract, but the days are set.
19:08 nancyk I am a slooow typer so please be patient
19:09 cait take your time :)
19:09 rangi i wont move on to the next topic until you say you are done :)
19:09 nancyk The first item on the agenda is what needs to be done, next
19:10 rangi yep thats the current topic
19:11 nancyk I sent an email that the venue is the Atlantis, the dates are Oct 16-22.
19:11 rhcl #info rhcl=Greg Lawson Rolling Hills Consolidated Library
19:12 rangi #info dates are set october 16-22 2013 at the Atlantis reno check the wiki for more info
19:12 nancyk information is posted on the wiki
19:12 cait nancyk++
19:12 nancyk[…]ategory:KohaCon13
19:12 rangi #link[…]KohaCon13_Summary
19:12 rangi #link[…]ategory:KohaCon13
19:13 nancyk So now I need a committee to create the structure and get the ball rolling
19:13 nengard_lunch #info Nicole C. Engard, ByWater Solutions
19:14 gbengaadara joined #koha
19:14 rangi so that brings us on to who can do what?
19:15 nancyk We need people to work on screening presentations
19:15 cait not sure I can attend yet, but if there is something that can be done online ...
19:16 rangi #topic Who can do what?
19:16 Topic for #koha is now Who can do what? (Meeting topic: Kohacon13)
19:16 nancyk We need people to help with registration, at the site
19:16 nancyk We need people to handle logistics
19:16 * druthb is willing to help with international hospitality--making sure non-US people have the info they need on visa logistics,etc.
19:16 nengard I can put up the proposal form again
19:17 nengard and help with the screening
19:17 Brooke yeah me too
19:17 * Brooke lives in the right place to bug people.
19:17 * druthb lives in the right place to bug Brooke.
19:18 * jcamins_away is the RM, making him an expert on bugs. :P
19:18 rangi #link[…]ers#Roles_to_Fill
19:18 nancyk #action brooke and nicole screen presentations
19:18 * cait is qam.... gets to see all the bugs before RM does :P
19:18 rangi perhaps people could sign up here
19:18 rangi and put their name under the roles they could do
19:19 nancyk nice idea
19:19 nancyk #action I'll flesh out the vol page on the wiki
19:20 rangi cool
19:20 nengard I think Brooke wanted to help druthb with bugging ;)
19:20 nancyk #topic What kinds of presentations do we want?
19:20 rhcl Maybe someone could fill in just a couple of brief bullets on the duties? For example, "International visitors help" would entail what, generally?
19:20 rangi #topic what kind of presentations do we want?
19:20 Topic for #koha is now what kind of presentations do we want? (Meeting topic: Kohacon13)
19:20 rhcl disregard, just answered
19:21 rangi rhcl: etsa .. gotta remember to apply for that BEFORE you take off or yoink! :)
19:21 nengard Presentations on how libraries are using Koha are always cool
19:21 rangi #info librarians/libraries telling their stories
19:22 rangi what she said :)
19:22 nengard hehe
19:22 nengard :)
19:22 rhcl we are going to send some librarians, so some "library topics" would be of more interest to them than dev or tech presentations exclusively
19:22 nengard sorry I should have used the #info
19:22 slef ah! I guess you mean "filter/review presentations", not as in prepare them for projection on a screen!
19:22 nengard right
19:22 nancyk #info I might be able to get something on virtualizing Koha
19:22 slef two peoples, divided by a common language...
19:22 rangi rhcl: we usually save tech stuff for the hackfest, we are pretty good about that
19:23 rangi i think that works well usually?
19:23 nancyk #info lost of new libraries, how about newbie tips?
19:23 rangi #info panel discussions are sometimes good too
19:23 cait I think some presentations that mix in a bit of tech are ok, but not too technical
19:24 rangi newbie tips are great, sometimes old hands learn new tricks that way too
19:24 nengard yeah super techie stuff is for the hackfest
19:24 rangi #info how about a slot for lightning talks? a cool tricks .. you have 7 mins to show you cool trick
19:24 nengard i think that last year was great, not to structured - not forcing everyone in to 30 or 45 min slots
19:25 drojf yeah for lightning talks
19:25 nengard and then the tech talks weren't there to confuse, but to enhance
19:26 nancyk #info new features in acquisitions
19:26 nancyk #info coolest OPACs
19:27 rangi #info i like "What we did wrong" talks too
19:27 cait maybe something like koha used in other countries?
19:27 rangi those can be really really useful
19:27 slef nengard++
19:27 Brooke cait++
19:27 rangi oh yeah, overseas stories
19:27 William ++
19:27 Brooke Those are super important
19:27 rangi #info international stories
19:27 nancyk boy we have lots of those!
19:28 rangi im hoping to get someone from NEU to come
19:28 cait that would be cool
19:28 rangi to talk about the 1112 branches moving/moved to koha
19:28 rangi ill keep pestering them :)
19:28 cait rangi++
19:28 * Brooke gets out the dead horse whip
19:28 rangi philipines converted all their public libraries to koha
19:29 Brooke I wish we had scholarships to prod folks to get there by taking the cost of travel out of the equation
19:29 rangi there is a good story there too :)
19:29 nancyk Ok, send me your late, but good ideas
19:29 rangi :)
19:29 cait maybe have another question and answers session?
19:29 drojf i wish we had scholarships to take get me there ;)
19:29 cait and some history of koha is always good too
19:29 rangi next topic nancyk ?
19:29 drojf err. without the "take"
19:29 nengard #info history of koha/what is koha for the new newbies
19:30 cait drojf: we could revive the *build a boat out of old books* plan
19:30 drojf hehe
19:30 nancyk #topic hackfest
19:30 nancyk what is it really?
19:30 nengard it's been a few things
19:30 rangi #topic hackfest
19:30 Topic for #koha is now hackfest (Meeting topic: Kohacon13)
19:30 rangi its a combination of presentations and coding
19:31 cait we had a bug squashing session in scotland, and some tutorials about how to do certain things like using git and writing unit tests in nz
19:31 nengard I'd love less talking and more coding :)
19:31 Brooke hackfest is usually a bunch of nerds in a room with lappies. Magic crap happens if you feed them cheetos and chocolate. :)
19:31 rangi imho the talking to each other is of far more value than the sitting quietly and working on code
19:31 rangi i can do that here :)
19:31 jcamins_away Much more valuable.
19:31 cait helping newbies who want to help out programming get started, show people how to test bugs, use bugzilla, git, the tools
19:31 Brooke Beer is another good nerd fuel.
19:31 nengard rangi - oh yes! talk to each other - but the presentations aren't always necessary I feel
19:31 druthb wahanui: hackfest?
19:31 wahanui hackfest is awesome! Group motivated koha hacking is the best koha hacking :)
19:31 cait coming up with bigger ideas and how things shoudl be done
19:31 cait or could
19:31 Brooke it's a whole lot of over the shoulder learning
19:31 * druthb likes Brooke's definition better.
19:32 cait because can't really make decisions there, but can note down ideas
19:32 nancyk #info will they bring a server?
19:32 rangi don't need one
19:32 jcamins_away nancyk: a server?
19:32 wahanui rumour has it a server is installed
19:32 cait everyone will bring a laptop :)
19:32 rangi laptops suffix
19:32 rangi suffice too
19:32 drojf or two
19:32 jcamins_away wahanui: forget server
19:32 wahanui jcamins_away: I forgot server
19:32 drojf and tablets
19:32 drojf lol
19:32 cait can run lots of kohas on a laptop :)
19:32 cait but internet is a big requirement
19:33 nancyk will people who want to be bug testers go?
19:33 rangi i hope so
19:33 cait :)
19:33 rangi thats why i ran the scoreboard last year
19:33 rangi #link
19:34 drojf aaaw all those kittens we saved
19:34 oleonard nancyk: Wireless internet is a big big requirement for conference *and* hackfest
19:34 nancyk got that ;)
19:34 cait :)
19:35 cait I think if there are people who want to learn about testing, there can be a session about that
19:35 rangi nancyk: making new developers is far far far far far far far far far more important than the existing ones working on code
19:35 cait the hackfest is normally less strictly planned than the conf
19:35 nancyk #topic donations
19:35 nancyk how do we go about that?
19:35 rangi so imo the hackfest is great for helping people new to testing/translations/etc to come up to speed
19:35 rangi #topic donations
19:35 Topic for #koha is now donations (Meeting topic: Kohacon13)
19:35 Brooke you ask, folks give
19:36 nancyk method of asking?
19:36 Brooke sometimes you don't even ask, and Magnus and folks show up with money anyway
19:36 rangi make it as simple as possible to give
19:36 Brooke :)
19:36 Brooke cause magnuse is quick like that
19:36 jcamins_away E-mail to the list with how much you need for what, and the simplest possible way to send money.
19:36 cait magnuse++
19:36 libsysguy donate button on the koha site?
19:36 rangi nancyk: we beat the streets, knocked on doors, and looked outside of just the koha support companies for sponsorship
19:36 cait I think there were problems with paypal last time
19:37 slef nancyk: email to the list, then if you need to raise more, direct mail based on the support list, then if you need to raise more, beg on IRC and in person.
19:37 libsysguy I was wondering if paypal would work…I guess not
19:37 libsysguy what is the donation goal?
19:37 slef libsysguy: arrrrrgh paypal froze kohacon12 donations at an awful time
19:37 jcamins_away Last year we had a Paypal button on the website, I think, but there were some problems with getting money out of it.
19:37 libsysguy figures…paypal is a pita sometimes
19:37 drojf most of the time
19:37 jcamins_away So if an easier option can be found, that'd be good.
19:37 Brooke paypal works, you just have to figure it out ahead of time
19:38 slef no
19:38 slef paypal is a complete loose cannon
19:38 slef I think the US may have other options.  Let me check our research
19:38 drojf paypal basically decides when you can get your money. or if you can at all
19:38 rhcl if you just ask for donations, we won't be able to give (politics), but if you have a suggested donation, we might be able to request that
19:38 nancyk #info donation method needs work, I get it
19:38 slef I think there were services we found but couldn't use because they only paid out to the US.
19:38 slef #info use paypal if you like, but try not to rely on it behaving
19:39 cait I think for in the US it might be fine
19:39 jcamins_away slef: yeah... there are two or three.
19:39 cait but better check
19:39 libsysguy[…]erchant/donations
19:39 slef cait: I think they serve the US from a Singapore-based subsidiary
19:39 cait how nice
19:39 rangi if you can get sponsorship from outside the community too
19:39 libsysguy oh kickstarter or indegogo
19:39 slef cait: I feel it's to avoid the regulators
19:39 rangi its much better
19:40 slef libsysguy: they take an extra %
19:40 nancyk #topic Anything else?
19:40 slef #info indiegogo was 3+(4 or 9)% + $25 + exchange rates
19:40 slef #info 33needs looked like 8%
19:41 slef #info Crowdrise looked liked 5%+$2.50; other options: Kickstarter, Profounder
19:41 libsysguy slef you're right I just saw at that
19:41 slef just checking for anything else
19:41 slef #info above are as at April 2012 or so
19:41 rangi #info hit up restaurants, print shops etc also
19:41 jcamins_away nancyk: don't use Kickstarter, or something where the payment _must_ be done through them, because at least some of the donors won't be able to donate through a venue like that.
19:41 slef ok I'm done
19:42 nancyk #topic Anything else?
19:42 jcamins_away (or use Kickstarter, but in such a way that donations can also be taken directly)
19:42 jcamins_away Okay, I'm done.
19:42 jcamins_away :)
19:42 rangi #topic anything else?
19:42 Topic for #koha is now anything else? (Meeting topic: Kohacon13)
19:42 talljoy joined #koha
19:42 slef rhcl: would you be able to buy "Enhanced Conference Tickets"?
19:42 rhcl yes, I'd guess
19:43 slef I think some "our policy is not to make donations" libraries suggested that to us.
19:43 drojf enhanced… by a pricetag? :)
19:43 rhcl and I'd (personally) fully support that type of thing to raise $$
19:43 libsysguy high_roller_package++
19:43 nancyk What's that?
19:43 wahanui rumour has it that is in march
19:43 nengard +1
19:43 rhcl we used to pay a fortune to send people to Sirsi conf
19:43 slef drojf: front-row seats?  Oh wait, it's a tech conference... back-row seats?
19:43 nengard hehe
19:43 drojf hehe
19:43 nengard table seats
19:44 drojf with power outlets
19:44 nengard nancyk that's something to be sure of - lots of tables - lots and lots of tables
19:44 William What are "Enhanced Conference Tickets"?
19:44 libsysguy n-band wifi
19:44 nengard the idea being that some libraries can't donate, but they can pay to attend the conference
19:44 nengard actually there is nothing enhanced about it
19:44 rangi William: the conference is free, but some libraries can not make donations, so we could have sepcial non-free tickets
19:44 nengard it's just a way to get more $$ for the conference
19:44 rangi for them
19:44 nancyk #topic next meeting time
19:44 rangi #topic next meeting time
19:44 Topic for #koha is now next meeting time (Meeting topic: Kohacon13)
19:45 slef I'd say just the ticket is enhanced. Printed on card instead of a sticker, maybe? ;)
19:45 slef and maybe get stickers that actually stick :-/
19:45 nancyk #info  Feb 19th same time?
19:45 slef ahem
19:45 rangi heh
19:45 nengard what stickers didn't stick?
19:45 rangi nancyk: works for me
19:45 slef nengard: the ones at kohacon12
19:46 rhcl will there be tables where we can leave stuff set up to demo? I'd like to show our OPAC (kiosk) software running.
19:46 Brooke that would be after Valentine's Day, so should be good :)
19:46 nancyk #info thanks all, I have a to do list for sure
19:46 slef nengard: on the plus side, they were very good in that they didn't mark clothes! ;-)
19:46 cait nancyk: thx for the meeting and info :)
19:46 cait slef: bcause they didn't stay there long enough ;)
19:46 nengard oh! the name stickers
19:46 nengard those never work
19:46 nengard ever ever
19:46 jcamins_away That's why I bring my own hanger.
19:47 nengard yeah i'll do the same this year
19:47 nengard i have a few
19:47 nancyk #action next KohaCon planning meeting Feb. 19   19:00 UTC
19:48 nancyk #endmeeting
19:48 cait rangi? :)
19:48 slef cait: maybe we should staple them on?
19:48 cait slef: I think I wouldn't like a stapler that close to me - thx
19:48 slef cait: or we could use a legbone to spear them on...
19:49 rangi #endmeeting
19:49 Topic for #koha is now Welcome to #koha 200 developers!! this channel is for discussion of the Koha project and software The next general meeting is 7 February 2013, at 2:00 UTC
19:49 huginn Meeting ended Tue Jan 22 19:47:05 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)
19:49 huginn Minutes:        http://meetings.koha-community[…]-01-22-19.00.html
19:49 huginn Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community[…]3-01-22-19.00.txt
19:49 huginn Log:            http://meetings.koha-community[…]22-19.00.log.html
19:50 rangi thanks nancyk
19:50 rangi and everyone else :)
19:53 druthb git-bz++
19:53 druthb jcamins_away: New patch on bug 7143, per your request.
19:53 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7143 trivial, P5 - low, ---,, Pushed to Master , Bug for tracking changes to the about page
19:53 jcamins_away druthb: thanks!
19:56 rangi druthb: thanks for the pull requests
19:56 druthb you betcha! :) Hope I did everything right.
19:57 rangi looks fine to me
19:58 druthb :)
20:04 wizzyrea oh that reminds me I need to get the new git bz
20:04 wizzyrea git bz?
20:04 wahanui i heard git bz was so much fun :) or[…]_bz_configuration or just about anything except intuitive or AMAZING and WONDERFUL
20:04 wizzyrea where is it living now?
20:05 jcamins_away
20:06 wizzyrea ty :)
20:06 libsysguy oh did gmcharlt get the wip repo working over the weekend?
20:07 gmcharlt sorry, not yet
20:07 * libsysguy crax the whip :p
20:07 libsysguy jk no rush
20:07 wizzyrea ! it has -m for MAIL
20:07 wizzyrea that is awesome!
20:08 wizzyrea test bug?
20:08 wizzyrea hmm
20:09 wizzyrea test bug is 6473
20:09 wizzyrea forget test bug
20:09 wahanui wizzyrea: I forgot test bug
20:09 wizzyrea test bug is bug 6473
20:09 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6473 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, wizzyrea, ASSIGNED , Test bug for Git-bz
20:09 wizzyrea test bug?
20:09 wahanui test bug is bug 6473
20:09 * wizzyrea likes this
20:11 * wizzyrea loves you guys so, so much.
20:12 wizzyrea that is really fantastic, thanks for your work on that.
20:13 wizzyrea whoever dd it
20:13 cait druthb++ :)
20:13 druthb eh?
20:13 wizzyrea git bz is also
20:13 wahanui okay, wizzyrea.
20:13 slef wizzyrea: but it's hardcoded to mail koha-patches so less useful elsewhere
20:14 druthb wha'd I do, cait?
20:14 wizzyrea I think it's fine to have a tool that works just for us
20:14 cait translation manager stuff :)
20:14 druthb oh.  okies. :)
20:14 wizzyrea and of course it can always be improved :)
20:14 wizzyrea but... just look at how far it has come.
20:15 wizzyrea slef++ for work on git-bz
20:15 wizzyrea git bz?
20:15 wahanui hmmm... git bz is so much fun :) or[…]_bz_configuration or just about anything except intuitive or AMAZING and WONDERFUL
20:16 wizzyrea oleonard: about?
20:16 oleonard Yes
20:17 wizzyrea question about sorting and tables - datatables can have their default sort changed right? I'm looking at thes aved reports interface, and it sorts by name as default
20:17 wizzyrea I think it should sort by number
20:17 paul_p joined #koha
20:17 wizzyrea hi paul_p
20:17 oleonard Yes you can change the default sort
20:17 wizzyrea ok with you if I change that?
20:17 wizzyrea for that particular table
20:19 oleonard Saved reports? That uses the old plugin so you'll have to update it to DataTables. I disagree that it should sort by number though.
20:19 oleonard wizzyrea: Can you make a case for number sorting?
20:20 cait I think newest first would be nice...
20:21 cait but maybe it will get better with the tabs/groups
20:21 cait at the moment libraries seem to miss that they have to set the max reports shown to a higher number or page
20:21 magnuse eythian: about?
20:23 wizzyrea I can, I think - unless a librarian is *very* disciplined, name sorting is pretty arbitrary as report names are user generated. Sorting them by number (which is the method by which I personally refer to them) lets you infer the age of the report, and gives you a sequence by which to find that number. Numbers are concrete references, names are easily misunderstood, often very similar, and generally confusing when trying to convey which
20:23 wizzyrea mean
20:23 cait hm
20:23 cait I think something good about name sorting is that you can influence it
20:23 cait I mean if you change the name it hsows up first if you want it
20:23 magnuse @later tell eythian: kia ora! any news on the funding for the images from multiple sources thing? just curious... :-)
20:23 huginn magnuse: The operation succeeded.
20:23 * magnuse wanders off again
20:23 oleonard wizzyrea: Perhaps cait's suggestion of newest first would help that?
20:23 cait for numbers you might have the best reports somewhere in the middle/end/begining
20:24 cait I am not sure what's good sorting here
20:24 wizzyrea right, but you *can* change the sort on the fly, right?
20:24 oleonard Yes
20:24 wizzyrea I think either date sorting or by number would be best
20:24 wizzyrea it's confusing *to me*
20:24 wizzyrea to have the ones with no name at the top
20:25 druthb @karma
20:25 huginn druthb: Highest karma: "rangi" (726), "oleonard" (618), and "jcamins" (489).  Lowest karma: "<!" (-114), "failed" (-99), and "-" (-70).  You (druthb) are ranked 13 out of 2359.
20:25 mib_vczt1x wizzyrea: i think i fixed the zebra issue with the installation here[…]biblionumber=2743
20:25 druthb @most increased
20:25 huginn druthb: "rangi": 731, "oleonard": 623, "jcamins": 491, "wizzyrea": 367, "cait": 351, "gmcharlt": 345, "chris_n": 312, "paul_p": 274, "sekjal": 245, "kf": 237, "nengard": 234, "magnuse": 204, "druthb": 176, "slef": 174, "eythian": 150, "fredericd": 95, "marcelr": 69, "hdl": 69, "mveron": 66, "biblibre": 65, "drojf": 63, "hdl_laptop": 60, "mtj": 57, "tcohen": 57, and "jwagner": 54
20:25 mib_vczt1x i updated the wiki accordingly too
20:25 wizzyrea mib_vczt1x: awesome!
20:25 wizzyrea mib_vczt1x++ very good :)
20:25 mib_vczt1x i have one issue though
20:26 oleonard Is it still possible to create a report with no name?
20:26 wizzyrea yep
20:26 mib_vczt1x the biblio numbers are skipping so there is no 2744 but there is 2745
20:26 wizzyrea possibly you deleted 2744
20:26 mib_vczt1x any idea where i can turn that off if its an option
20:27 wizzyrea ?
20:27 wizzyrea the first question?
20:27 wahanui "What are you trying to do?" or "What is the goal?"
20:27 mib_vczt1x when the guys add a new record it seem to just skip
20:27 wizzyrea and this is bothersome because?
20:27 oleonard *sigh* A patch submitted for Bug 2969 but never followed-up on.
20:27 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=2969 major, PATCH-Sent (DO NOT USE), ---, amit.gupta, Failed QA , Report Name should be mandatory for saved reports
20:28 mib_vczt1x well  think the librarian use the biblio number as an indication of the number of records in the system
20:29 wizzyrea oh, just go to saved reports, and enter select count(*) from biblio
20:29 wizzyrea that will just tell you
20:29 wizzyrea how many there are
20:29 wizzyrea problem solved.
20:29 wizzyrea run it any time you want to know :)
20:30 wizzyrea i wouldn't use the biblionumber as a representation of how many records are in the system
20:30 cait I think reusing numbers would be much worse :)
20:30 wizzyrea because every record gets one, and it's unique, and if you delete it, that one goes away forever.
20:30 wizzyrea so you'll always have gaps
20:31 wizzyrea but counting the number of biblios in the table will always be accurate as to how many records (do note, not *items*) there are in your catalog
20:33 wizzyrea mib_vczt1x: make sense?
20:33 wizzyrea if you want to know how many items there are (you could have multiple items per biblio) it's select count(*) from items
20:37 mib_vczt1x i understand a biblionimber being marked as used and not available for integrity purposes when deleted
20:37 mib_vczt1x but the issue is that during the addition phase its skipping numbers..numbers that wouldnt have being used before
20:38 wizzyrea it's still not the way to count the numbers in your collection. I think what you're saying is "it bothers me that it skips numbers because I like things in order"
20:38 wizzyrea ;)
20:39 oleonard It is a curiosity.
20:39 mib_vczt1x is there a predefined report that count the number of biblios or would i need to access the db directly for that?
20:40 wizzyrea not a pre-defined one, but you can create a saved sql report in the reports interface
20:40 wizzyrea with the queries I gave you :)
20:40 wizzyrea one per saved report
20:40 wizzyrea and run that from the interface anytime
20:41 mib_vczt1x ok fair enough, will advise librarian accordingly
20:41 wizzyrea (do note, I'm not saying that liking things in order is *bad* just that it's better to be honest about why something is bothersome)
20:42 wizzyrea wanting to know how many bibs/items in the collection I can fix. Your desire for order, I can't ^.^
20:42 * wizzyrea is going away now.
20:43 mib_vczt1x well i understand ..i just need to explain to her why she need to use a different method for accounting on the population status
20:58 wizzyrea1 joined #koha
21:04 jenkins_koha Starting build #49 for job Koha_3.10.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
21:11 wizzyrea1 oleonard: oh no, now I'm into the file with the rest of the permissions. lol.
21:11 wizzyrea1 be afraid. be very afraid.
21:12 oleonard wizzyrea: Did you see Bug 9439?
21:12 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9439 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, dcook, Needs Signoff , Enforce superlibrarian mutual exclusivity of other permissions
21:13 wizzyrea hm interesting
21:13 wahanui interesting is sometimes good and sometimes bad
21:13 wizzyrea indeed.
21:14 oleonard wizzyrea: It doesn't conflict however.
21:14 wizzyrea I'm only changing the descriptions really
21:14 * rangi works on the 3.10.2 release
21:15 nengard left #koha
21:16 oleonard See you later #koha
21:16 wizzyrea bother I see what I did there - later oleonard
21:17 eythian hi
21:17 cait morning eythian
21:43 qu-bit joined #koha
21:46 jenkins_koha Project Koha_3.10.x build #49: SUCCESS in 41 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]b/Koha_3.10.x/49/
21:46 jenkins_koha Chris Cormack: Release notes for 3.10.2
21:46 wizzyrea \o/
21:46 jenkins_koha Starting build #50 for job Koha_3.10.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
21:57 jcamins_away You know what I was _just_ saying?
21:58 wizzyrea what's that
21:58 wahanui i heard that was in march?
21:58 jcamins_away I was _just_ saying "yes, please, I would like to make Koha absolutely unusable and a miserable experience for my users!"
21:58 wizzyrea ?!
21:58 rangi heh
21:58 jcamins_away wizzyrea: so I put the data in SharePoint.
21:58 jcamins_away :P
21:58 wizzyrea lol fair enough
22:00 rangi unfortunately, the library won't have any pull in this situation
22:00 rangi new CIO etc
22:00 jcamins Ouch.
22:01 rangi being a library in a largish multinational engineering company has it's downsides :)
22:02 rangi rennes++
22:03 rangi committing early
22:10 cait rangi++ rennes++ :)
22:23 cait left #koha
22:26 jenkins_koha Project Koha_3.10.x build #50: SUCCESS in 40 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]b/Koha_3.10.x/50/
22:26 jenkins_koha * druthb: Updated language files for 3.10.2
22:26 jenkins_koha * druthb: Bug 7143: Updating the About page with translation teams for Basque and Turkish
22:26 jenkins_koha * Chris Cormack: Bumping db version number for release
22:26 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7143 trivial, P5 - low, ---,, Pushed to Master , Bug for tracking changes to the about page
22:27 jenkins_koha Starting build #259 for job Koha_3.8.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
22:49 Irma joined #koha
22:58 rangi wizzyrea: i broke the website
22:58 rangi
22:58 wahanui is down?
22:59 rangi the link from 3.8.9 is broken
23:01 jcamins wahanui runs around waving his wings in the air.
23:01 wahanui jcamins: sorry...
23:03 jcamins (wahanui = raven, right?)
23:04 jenkins_koha Project Koha_3.8.x build #259: SUCCESS in 37 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]b/Koha_3.8.x/259/
23:04 jenkins_koha * druthb: Language updates for 3.8.9
23:04 jenkins_koha * druthb: Bug 7143: Updating the About page with translation teams for Basque and Turkish
23:04 jenkins_koha * Chris Cormack: Bumping version for 3.8.9 release
23:04 jenkins_koha * Chris Cormack: Release notes for 3.8.9
23:04 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7143 trivial, P5 - low, ---,, Pushed to Master , Bug for tracking changes to the about page
23:05 edveal left #koha
23:06 gmcharlt jcamins: huginn is a raven
23:06 gmcharlt I don't know about wahanui
23:07 eythian NZ doesn't have ravens, I think
23:07 wizzyrea they make an awful racket. Count yourselves lucky.
23:07 wizzyrea I guess you have tuis tho, they're pretty noisy.
23:08 rangi wahanui = big mouth
23:08 wahanui rangi: sorry...
23:08 eythian oh we do
23:08 eythian
23:08 eythian oh, we did
23:08 wizzyrea hah
23:08 rangi i know how to fix the cat problem
23:08 eythian "Conservation status: fossil"
23:08 rangi haast eagles
23:08 rangi's_Eagle
23:09 rangi just have to clone a few of them
23:09 * ibeardslee refuses to admit to ever having a Tui
23:09 rangi cats, dogs, sheep, small children
23:09 rangi all solved
23:09 * wizzyrea rather likes small children
23:09 wizzyrea most days.
23:09 wahanui most days are partly to mostly sunny, it's really pretty rare to get a totally clear day
23:10 rangi yeah but imagine how much better behaved they'd be if you could say "pick up those toys or ill put you outside with the eagles"
23:10 wizzyrea HAHA
23:10 wizzyrea i love it.
23:10 * wizzyrea might use that anyway.
23:11 eythian the eagles in LOTR are native, anyway :)
23:36 wizzyrea ^.^
23:40 BobB joined #koha
23:54 wizzyrea "yes"

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