IRC log for #koha, 2012-12-06

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:50 jcamins gmcharlt++
00:51 wizzyrea gmcharlt - is there any way to up the amount of time you get before the wiki kicks you out and makes you relogin?
00:51 wizzyrea (and is there a reason not to do that since we are approving users)
00:52 gmcharlt wizzyrea: yes; I'll look into it
00:52 rangi my login doesnt kick me out for days
00:52 wizzyrea bless you kind sir
00:52 rangi do you use openid wizzyrea ?
00:52 rangi cos i dont
00:52 wizzyrea it must be something to do with openid then?
00:52 rangi sounds likely
00:52 gmcharlt yeah
00:52 wizzyrea hmmmm
00:53 * wizzyrea was trying to be fancy pants and use openid
00:53 wizzyrea but really it mostly annoys me.
00:53 wizzyrea sso seems like such a good idea
00:53 wizzyrea excpet when it's not
00:53 eythian openid shouldn't matter, I'd expect it to be the cookie time.
00:53 eythian maybe it's a session cookie?
00:55 eythian wiki.koha-community.orgsession/wikidb_s​essionc4d9d98b4c80d38dcdf5ea695972fe91
00:55 eythian err that looks ugly
00:55 eythian hmm
00:55 * eythian invalidates his session
01:06 wizzyrea man mine kicks me out after like 20 mintues or something
01:07 eythian weird. Well I've just switched to openid, so I'll keep an eye on it. I don't expect that to make a difference though.
01:07 * eythian wishes browserid was a thing yet.
01:09 eythian oh hey, it pretty much is a thing now
01:09 eythian we should use that.
01:10 wizzyrea ... maybe it's a stupid setting I have in my account
01:10 wizzyrea i admit that I didn't look >.<
01:10 eythian[…]elease-of-persona <-- a bit over a month ago
01:11 rangi i gotta finish my implementation for koha
01:11 rangi its about half done
01:11 rangi i did it at kohacon
01:11 eythian cool
01:11 rangi its actually quite similair to the PKI stuffs
01:12 rangi matching a user with an email
01:12 eythian ah OK
01:12 rangi just that we get the info from persona, not a cert
01:28 gmcharlt wizzyrea: I've tried something that *might* increase the timeout for you to 24 hours -- please let me know if you see any change
01:32 wizzyrea oh bless you
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02:23 eythian <-- Microsoft MS-DOS 5 upgrade training
02:23 wizzyrea ...oh no
02:24 trea oh dear
02:25 wizzyrea that's alarming.
02:25 wizzyrea 45k of memory!
02:25 wizzyrea at LEAST
02:26 trea i got 1:19 in before my ears started bleeding
02:26 eythian heh
02:26 wizzyrea oh you missed them rapping about a graphical shell
02:26 jcamins Oh my.
02:26 wizzyrea I know you wanted to know about that.
02:26 wizzyrea also, it comes on 5in floppies
02:27 jcamins Oh... my.
02:27 * jcamins got to the graphical shell bit.
02:29 wizzyrea 5 1/4in I guess
02:31 eythian well, they were the standard disk size around that time
02:31 trea indeed
02:32 eythian (June '91 specifically)
02:33 wizzyrea what they had... 1.4 MB on each one?
02:33 eythian depends
02:33 wizzyrea or was that 3.5 in
02:33 eythian 1.2MB for the HD, 320K for the DD, or something along those lines
02:33 eythian *740 maybe
02:33 eythian I think it was 320 per side
02:34 * druthb remembers those.  320 for SD, 640 for DD (flip 'em over!), and 1.2 MB for HD.
02:34 wizzyrea there you have it :)
02:34 * druthb had a C64 that could only read SDs...flip the disk to save moolah.
02:34 druthb cut an extra write-protect notch, and you're good to go.
02:34 trea ah, the good ol' days
02:38 rangi mtj: stirrer :)
02:39 jcamins lol
02:39 mtj well… i reckon its a point worth noting, for all...
02:39 rangi yup
02:42 mtj … they might not be aware of the incompatibility between CC and GPL?
02:44 mtj there is a small possibility it was a genuine mistake :)
02:51 eythian there is something odd about link_bibs_to_authorities, it seems to be starting from bibnumber 1, even when my bib number range starts much higher than that.
02:51 eythian but I can't see why it would do that.
02:52 mtj the SQL is selecting on a bibnumber, even?
02:52 eythian SELECT biblionumber FROM biblio $bib_where ORDER BY biblionumber ASC
02:52 eythian yes
02:53 jcamins eythian: are you using --where='biblionumber > 5432'?
02:53 eythian no
02:53 eythian Could not retrieve bib 139611 from the database - record is corrupt.
02:53 eythian Could not retrieve bib 139614 from the database - record is corrupt.
02:53 eythian ... processed 139600 records
02:53 eythian my numbers start around that mark
02:53 eythian so now it's going happily
02:53 jcamins Oh, I meant --bib-limit
02:54 eythian no, no options at all
02:54 jcamins Did you possibly clear out biblioitems but not biblio?
02:55 eythian ah
02:55 eythian hmm
02:55 eythian yes
02:55 eythian bother
02:56 eythian I did clear items twice, to be sure, apparently.
02:57 eythian delete from biblio where biblionumber<139615;
02:57 eythian Query OK, 139583 rows affected (3.11 sec)
02:57 eythian there, problem solved
02:57 jcamins Hehe.
02:57 rangi[…]ial:RecentChanges
02:57 rangi first user moderated
03:10 jcamins Yay!
03:11 wizzyrea huzza
03:11 wizzyrea h
03:14 mtj[…]/2322205106.shtml
03:14 mtj That Blurry Line Between Commercial & Non-Commercial Use Still Troubling For Creative Commons
03:15 mtj ^^ something i've always been confused about too
03:16 eythian oh yeah, there've been lots of surveys to try to pin down what that really means
03:16 rangi lawyers love that
03:16 rangi mo money mo money
03:16 mtj stupid Q but… is Koha non-commerical use?
03:16 rangi no
03:17 jcamins No.
03:17 jcamins Most definitely not.
03:17 jcamins Koha is GPLed.
03:17 jcamins The GPL protects my right to sell Koha, provided that I give my clients the source code.
03:18 rangi it protects the rights of libraries to use koha
03:18 rangi and lots of libraries are commercial enterprises
03:18 rangi including public libraries
03:18 rangi not for profit != non commercial
03:19 jcamins rangi: that's arguably grayer than my (personal) right to sell Koha.
03:19 rangi grey areas are what lawyers live for
03:19 mtj lol, so true
03:19 rangi if opus a for profit company uses koha, for commercial use
03:20 rangi if it was under a NC license they couldnt
03:20 rangi it doesnt just preclude your right to distribute
03:20 mtj wow, nice example
03:20 rangi it precludes your right to use
03:25 rangi NC makes sense for a photograph ... maybe ... but not really even then
03:27 eythian if you want people to show it and not sell it, yeah
03:27 eythian though it's still vague
03:27 eythian I mean, do ads on your blog count as commercial?
03:28 rangi exactly
03:31 jcamins Three and a half hours to prepare a bibliography just over three pages.
03:33 * eythian just used BibTeX to do it all
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04:01 user00 rangi: bit of bad weather around auckland?
04:01 eythian 3 people dead sort of bad weather, yeah
04:02 user00 news reported a tornado, indicated tornados aren't very common in NZ
04:03 ibeardslee not common at all ... but we do seem to be seeing more of them .. a sign of global warming?
04:03 eythian we've always had them
04:03 eythian but there have been a few more in the past couple of years
04:04 eythian auckland typically gets a couple per year
04:04 eythian only every few years do they cause damage
04:04 eythian (well, notable damage)
04:06 ibeardslee ok .. maybe I've just noticed them on the news more often
04:06 user00 ic. Well tornados are common around here, including associated deaths and property damage. Hope that doesn't become the case there.
04:07 eythian[…]reaks#New_Zealand <-- I'm not convinced this is a statistically significant change
04:07 eythian keeping in mind that this is just the reasonably significant ones
04:08 rambutan still, 7 or so every half century? That's pretty rare.
04:09 eythian yeah, most of ours aren't damaging.
04:09 eythian We probably get them in Wellington but nobody notices.
04:10 mtj hmm, do recommend using other licenses for software, rather than ones?
04:10 mtj
04:11 eythian I'd expect them to point to the FSF.
04:11 rambutan[…]n_public.html.csp   <- very destructive tornado about 340km from her
04:11 rambutan e
04:11 eythian yeah, I heard about that
04:11 mtj ahh, they do -> http://wiki.creativecommons.or[…]ense_for_software.3F
04:11 mtj 'Can I apply a Creative Commons license to software?
04:11 mtj We do not recommend it. '
04:12 mtj 'We recommend considering licenses made available by the Free Software Foundation or listed at the Open Source Initiative. Unlike our licenses, which do not make mention of source or object code, these existing licenses were designed specifically for use with software. Furthermore, our licenses are not compatible with the GPL, the most frequently used free software license.'
04:12 mtj wow, from the horses mouth
04:14 mtj … you know you've chosen the wrong license, when its creator tells you not to use it, for that specific purpose
04:15 eythian yep
04:15 rangi[…]t-new-zealand.htm
04:16 rangi From NIWA who are koha users
04:16 rangi As of a few mins ago :)
04:16 eythian well, I haven't seen them access their staff client just yet :)
04:17 mtj awesome news
04:17 eythian then again, they may be saving that for tomorrow morning.
04:18 rangi :)
04:32 rambutan and I'll be back in the morning too...time for my sleep quantum
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06:13 francharb joined #koha
06:13 francharb hello #koha
06:51 * magnuse waves
07:00 cait joined #koha
07:00 cait hello #koha
07:20 magnuse hiya cait and #koha
07:22 rangi evening
07:23 cait hi rangi and magnuse
07:29 magnuse kia ora rangi
07:31 magnuse rangi: thanks for nudging me in the direction of dancer - i like!
07:33 rangi cool :)
07:40 alex_a_ hello
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07:41 reiveune hello
07:41 wahanui bonjour, reiveune
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08:00 julian_m joined #koha
08:00 julian_m bonjour
08:09 asaurat joined #koha
08:31 kf joined #koha
08:32 kf good morning #koha
08:40 francharb` joined #koha
08:40 magnuse wow, MARC is crazy
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09:08 drojf good morning #koha
09:08 drojf and a very snowy morning too
09:08 rangi hi drojf
09:08 drojf magnuse: you realized that now? :D
09:08 drojf hi rangi :)
09:10 drojf @wunder berlin, germany
09:10 huginn drojf: The current temperature in Prenzlauer Berg, Berlin, Germany is -0.4°C (9:43 AM CET on December 06, 2012). Conditions: Snow. Humidity: 82%. Dew Point: -3.0°C. Windchill: 0.0°C. Pressure: 29.65 in 1004 hPa (Steady).
09:11 rangi @wunder nzwn
09:11 huginn rangi: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 15.0°C (10:00 PM NZDT on December 06, 2012). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 77%. Dew Point: 11.0°C. Pressure: 29.42 in 996 hPa (Steady).
09:12 gaetan_B joined #koha
09:12 slef @wunder egfc
09:12 huginn slef: Error: No such location could be found.
09:12 gaetan_B hello
09:12 wahanui hi, gaetan_B
09:14 slef @wunder egyh
09:14 huginn slef: Error: No such location could be found.
09:14 slef @wunder egfd
09:14 huginn slef: Error: No such location could be found.
09:14 slef huginn: you suck ;)
09:14 huginn slef: I suck
09:15 slef @wunder Leverington
09:15 huginn slef: Error: No such location could be found.
09:15 slef @wunder Holbeach
09:15 huginn slef: The current temperature in Holbeach, United Kingdom is -1.0°C (8:50 AM GMT on December 06, 2012). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 86%. Dew Point: -3.0°C. Windchill: -6.0°C. Pressure: 30.01 in 1016 hPa (Rising).
09:15 slef snow on the ground here, too
09:30 magnuse @wunder boo
09:30 huginn magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is -5.0°C (10:20 AM CET on December 06, 2012). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 54%. Dew Point: -13.0°C. Windchill: -12.0°C. Pressure: 29.86 in 1011 hPa (Steady).
09:32 magnuse you'd have to get up to 3-400 meters above sea level to find some old patches of snow here...
09:58 drojf magnuse: didn't you have 10° or 15° like a week ago or two?
10:01 drojf is it possible at all to use solr with 3.10 from packages? on squeeze i had to build a lot of packages manually to get module happy but it still isn't working. i tried building moose (not sure if i have to) but gave up somewhen. if i'd upgrade to wheezy, koha-common and other stuff from the koha repo would be deinstalled.
10:02 rangi nope you cant use the solr stuff on squeeze
10:02 rangi unless you install moose from cpan rather than packages ... hence you cant use the packages
10:03 magnuse drojf: yeah, it's been cold for a long time, but no snow!
10:04 drojf wee need a wheezy repo then ;)
10:04 rangi when it's released :)
10:05 drojf it's debian. so in 10 years? :P
10:05 rangi nope
10:06 rangi it only started in march 2011
10:06 drojf ah it's frozen june 2012. what does that mean for ETA? june 2013?
10:07 rangi
10:07 rangi when that green line gets to the bottom
10:07 rangi release
10:07 drojf thanks
10:08 drojf so no solr for the library that asked me. i hope they are not crazy enough to run it from git
10:09 drojf i, of course, will… :) but only for fun. the indexing field interface is very promising
10:09 drojf just that i cannot build the index atm :D
10:10 rangi you can run it from packages you just have to install all the moose related modules from CPAN
10:10 rangi ie, you cant do it just from pacakges
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10:11 drojf i am not going to recommend that ;)
10:11 rangi nope :)
10:15 * rangi heads to sleep
10:17 drojf good night rangi
10:18 francharb` hello all
10:22 drojf hi francharb` :9
10:22 drojf :)
10:22 francharb` 0 /
10:22 francharb` oups
10:22 francharb` 0/ drojf
10:22 francharb` ;)
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12:18 slef nudged bug 9052 - should we switch to libjs-yui?
12:18 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9052 blocker, P5 - low, ---, robin, In Discussion , YUI assets installed in the wrong place by packages
12:19 kf slef: I think we are almost done with phasing out the YUI js libraries
12:19 slef kf: it'll be with us for 3.10, right?
12:19 kf the css grid
12:19 kf not the js I think
12:20 slef the css grid is in libjs-yui too AFAICT
12:20 kf but we would have a lot more files than we actually need
12:21 slef true, but I think 3.10 includes them all already
12:21 kf hm sure, I haven#t checked
12:21 kf looking for the yui bug rightnow
12:21 * slef hands huginn to kf
12:21 kf bug 5481
12:21 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5481 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, ASSIGNED , Replace YUI JS libraries with Jquery UI
12:23 kf oleonard will know :)
12:27 slef ASSIGNED enhancement probably means not in 3.10, right?
12:28 kf all attached sub bugs are resolved
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12:51 kf hi drojf
12:51 drojf hi kf
12:58 kf hm I have no idea if the new person requesting a wiki account is real or not
12:59 * kf opts for yes
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13:08 drojf kf: i was wondering how you do that
13:09 kf I googled and it seems there is a person with the name at least... so hopefully
13:09 drojf do the spam accounts have real names?
13:10 drojf real-sounding
13:12 kf not sure
13:12 kf we will find out
13:12 drojf i thought there were a lot of garbage-y things like shfsklhfsk@something.tld when i looked at the list once
13:13 kf yeah, so I think it was a real person :)
13:13 drojf which could be a regular mail address of course :)
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13:30 jcamins You know what I would like? I would like the "Add to list" dropdown on the OPAC to not open a pop-up if you're selected a specific list to add the items to.
13:31 jcamins Am I the only one who feels that way?
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13:40 drojf jcamins: not a big fan of popups in general, the situation you describe sounds like it's superflous. but can't try it at the moment
13:40 kf jcamins: I agreewith you :)
13:41 jcamins All other issues aside, it keeps on running afoul of my pop-up blocker.
13:45 drojf i have all pop-ups open in a new tab. that is why i don't like them. but i dislike them even more if they pop up
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13:56 huginn New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 8240: Remove dead code from orderreceive <[…]8c78cc3aff3a4597f> / Bug 9167: Standardize the sort field copyrightdate for lists <[…]951f62271f9b6f23d>
13:57 HB hey Koha
13:57 jcamins Good morning, HB.
13:58 HB annyone ever had this[…]a/ris%20error.jpg i get is if i want to download a ris file or just do a download of a list
13:58 jcamins It looks like you're missing some of Koha's dependencies.
13:58 jcamins In this case, Text::CSV::Encoded.
13:59 jcamins If you're on a Debian or Ubuntu system, you should install it using `sudo apt-get install libtext-csv-encoded-perl`
13:59 HB ubuntu
13:59 jenkins_koha Starting build #968 for job Koha_master (previous build: UNSTABLE -- last SUCCESS #966 2 days 0 hr ago)
13:59 jcamins Yeah, that command will work fine for you then.
13:59 HB ok ill try
14:00 jcamins What version of Koha, out of curiosity?
14:00 HB 3.81
14:00 HB gonna install 3.10 tomorrow
14:00 HB or monday :OP
14:00 jcamins If you're missing that package, there's a good chance that you're missing others as well.
14:00 jcamins If you look in the About page in the staff client, you can see what else you need.
14:02 jcamins Yay, no backlog in the "Passed QA" queue!
14:03 HB[…]/koha/missing.jpg
14:03 HB there it is
14:03 jcamins Okay, Text::CSV::Encoded is the only one that you definitely need.
14:03 HB the red ones are bad probably :)
14:03 jcamins However, I'd encourage you to install all of them.
14:04 HB ok i gonna try that thx for the advice
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14:09 HB did help
14:09 HB :)
14:10 HB is there a list of the dependensie names somewhere so i can install the other ?
14:16 magnuse jcamins++ for no backlog
14:17 slef @later tell gmcharlt the reg form says "I have read and agree to abide by the Terms of Service of Koha Wiki. The name I have specified under "Real name" is in fact my own real name."  Either we need to add "Real name" or rephrase that.
14:17 huginn slef: The operation succeeded.
14:17 slef @seen gmcharlt
14:17 huginn slef: gmcharlt was last seen in #koha 12 hours, 48 minutes, and 59 seconds ago: <gmcharlt> wizzyrea: I've tried something that *might* increase the timeout for you to 24 hours -- please let me know if you see any change
14:18 jcamins HB: you can just add "lib" at the beginning, replace '::' with '-' and add '-perl' at the end to get the package names.
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14:28 kf jcamins++ :)
14:31 HB thx its done
14:31 jcamins That looks right. :)
14:31 HB learning stuff here :)
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14:34 HB ok i try my other problem the people from the it department gave me an ip adress for the mail server but i did put it in the nullmailer conf file but still cant mail is there something i can do or read about that
14:36 jcamins Get rid of nullmailer.
14:36 * jcamins hates nullmailer.
14:36 jcamins I recommend postfix.
14:36 jcamins postfix?
14:36 wahanui postfix is found at (but you probably can skip the SASL stuff) or at
14:36 jcamins ^^ that first one is the guide I used.
14:36 jcamins Everyone says that nullmailer is super-easy, but I've never managed to configure it.
14:37 HB if you cant how will i ever do it :)
14:37 HB ill try postfix
14:37 HB i start reading firrst
14:39 drojf what jcamins says about nullmailer. it never worked for me.
14:39 HB lol :)
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14:53 gmcharlt slef: the ConfirmAccount extension has flags to enable requiring "Real Names"
14:53 gmcharlt I turned those off for the initial deployment, but what you're seeing is a bit of leftover
14:53 gmcharlt easily removed, of course, but I suppose that raises a question to consider: requiriing "real names"?
15:09 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #968: STILL UNSTABLE in 1 hr 10 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]/Koha_master/968/
15:09 jenkins_koha * jonathan.druart: Bug 9167: Standardize the sort field copyrightdate for lists
15:09 jenkins_koha * jonathan.druart: Bug 8240: Remove dead code from orderreceive
15:09 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9167 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to Master , The sort field copyrightdate is not standardized
15:09 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8240 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to Master , There is dead code in
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15:30 slef gmcharlt: I think not. After all, what is "real" anyway?
15:31 slef gmcharlt: can we see the biog when reviewing the moderation queue?
15:33 slef nm I see that we can
15:33 slef that should be enough
15:34 gmcharlt cool
15:37 jcamins Myshkin just figured out how to use my external keyboard to change the brightness of my laptop screen.
15:38 kf he is so clever
15:38 jcamins He is.
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15:47 gaetan_B bye !
16:03 reiveune bye
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16:37 gerundio requirements?
16:37 gerundio system requirements?
16:38 jcamins hardware requirements?
16:38 jcamins I thought it was system requirements.
16:38 jcamins wahanui: are you there?
16:38 wahanui jcamins: bugger all, i dunno
16:38 jcamins Well, wahanui isn't locked up, so I guess it doesn't have anything about system requirements.
16:39 gerundio :|
16:48 gerundio this seems to be the closest I found:[…]aring_your_system
16:48 francharb` hey there!
16:48 francharb` just a little question
16:49 francharb` I just checked the documentation but just a part of answer
16:49 francharb` how many notices
16:49 francharb` are display
16:49 francharb` within the notices tab
16:49 francharb` on the borrower account?
16:50 kf bye all
16:50 kf left #koha
16:50 francharb` I guess it depends on the mysql message queue table
16:51 francharb` but are all notices display without  limit?
16:52 francharb` can a patron see the notice he got 5 years ago?
16:53 gerundio jcamins, what would you consider to be a good memory value to set for a Koha production environment?
16:55 francharb` apparently, there is no limit to the number of notices displayed
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16:56 francharb` C4::Letters::GetQueuedMessages says you can put a limit on how many notices will be return by the fonction
16:57 francharb` but the didnt mention any limit when using the function
16:57 francharb` great
16:57 francharb` I just answered myself
16:57 francharb` perfect!
16:57 francharb` sorry for the annoyance
16:57 francharb` ;)
16:57 smeagol Hi all...tryin' to do a dev git install and get error from installer that says, "ERROR 1166 (42000) at line 1871: Incorrect column name 'closed '" Not sure why i'm getting this mysql error, anyone?
16:58 jcamins gerundio: not less than 1GB.
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17:00 gerundio I have 1GB at the moment
17:00 gerundio but I feel like it's not enough
17:00 jcamins How many records/users do you have?
17:00 gerundio no reason in particular... just a feeling :D
17:00 gerundio 60k records at the moment
17:01 gerundio users might go up to 5k maybe
17:01 gerundio not really sure at this moment
17:01 jcamins 1GB is definitely not enough.
17:02 gerundio 2 or 4?
17:02 wahanui 6
17:02 jcamins lol
17:02 gerundio lolol
17:02 jcamins If you have enough, I'd go with 4.
17:02 jcamins It's probably not necessary, but...
17:03 jcamins when it's necessary, it's desperately necessary, yesterday.
17:03 gerundio I have enough
17:03 gerundio I'm backed up by a good IT team
17:04 oleonard That's nice to hear :)
17:04 gerundio hopefully they won't mind to spend 4 GB for this VM :D
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17:10 rambutan gerundio, you're using a virtual machine? Is it the host machine that only has 1GB, or is only 1GB allocated in your VM manager>
17:11 gerundio all our servers are virtualized
17:11 gerundio ..oO(I'm not the best person to answer this to you :p)
17:11 gerundio I meant 4GB for the koha server
17:11 gerundio not the whole vm manager
17:14 rambutan ic. If you can you might try bumping the memory allocated to the VM in the manager to 2GB, but using Virtual Box on Linux I've found pretty decent productivity with just 1 GB,
17:15 rambutan although most of my base hardware is pretty decent--multi-core or multi-processor CPUs and 4-8GB of memory.
17:19 rambutan BTW, as a separate plug for VirtualBox I've found it remarkably easy and reliable to do basic virtualization with on LInux (caveat: use the official download from Oracle, not the OSE deb packages).
17:20 jcamins I've been using Vagrant on FreeBSD. It's pretty nice.
17:21 gerundio I think our virtualization is based on Xen
17:21 jcamins Yeah, that's what I'd use for production.
17:21 rambutan <obligatory acknowledgment on philosophical issues in dealing with proprietary vendors>
17:22 rambutan yea, Xen is good.
17:22 tcohen KVM is good too
17:23 rambutan yep, that too
17:23 tcohen Xen support paravirtualization, which is nice in some scenarios
17:23 rambutan at one point somebody was doing a Koha VM. Wonder if that's still available?
17:24 tcohen I prefer KVM as the hypervisor is inside the official kernel
17:24 tcohen (and maintained by them)
17:24 gerundio rambutan, I was at an event of the Koha PT community last week
17:24 rambutan PT?
17:24 gerundio they talked about a VM being made available for the users
17:24 gerundio Portuguese
17:24 rambutan ah
17:24 gerundio
17:25 jcamins rambutan: yeah, Kyle has been releasing one every release.
17:25 gerundio I think they've stored it deep in the forum somewhere
17:25 gerundio with mandatory user registration to be able to download
17:25 gerundio :p
17:26 jcamins No, it's just on sourceforge.
17:26 jcamins There isn't a 3.10 appliance yet, though.
17:28 rambutan I think there's a potentially good market for vendors to sell a prebuilt appliance. Wouldn't be hard to put a decent machine together.
17:28 rambutan appliance = hardware and preloaded OS + Koha
17:31 gerundio how about the disk size for this kind of setup?
17:32 jcamins Sorry folks, the fifty e-mail messages are all my fault.
17:35 gerundio btw, what's your take on VMWare vs Virtualbox?
17:40 drojf joined #koha
17:40 rambutan disks are cheap--solid state drives of 250GB are relatively inexpensive and would be sufficient for smaller databases, but you could plus it up as needed.
17:41 * jcamins heads into the city.
17:42 rambutan VMware is what you really have to have if you want to play in the big leagues--if you need to move massive running VM's from servers in Canada to servers in Singapore with just a drag and drop, you have to have VMware.
17:43 rambutan I've used their free VMware server in the past, and it worked well but eventually we just found VBox to be a good workable solution for our needs. But when we grow up, and have to manage 700 VMs around the world, we'll be using VMware.
17:44 rambutan I understand they give out pretty cool freebies, like coffee cups, if you buy into their systems.
17:45 rambutan Coffee cups are important.
17:45 gerundio rambutan, thanks for your input... my question was more regading for an at home small personal environment
17:46 rambutan VBox
17:46 drojf did i come into the right channel? what is all the nonfree software joy about?
17:46 rambutan IMHO, of course. Ack the above positive comments about Xen and KVM, of course
17:47 gerundio drojf, aren't off topics welcomed?
17:47 rambutan I've acknowledged those issues above.
17:48 rambutan gerundio: depends on the active chatters at the time.  :)
17:48 rambutan and the VM discussion is related to Koha....
17:49 drojf gerundio: without off topic talk there would be a lot of silence around here :P
17:49 drojf i was just confused entering into a praise for proprietary software
17:50 gerundio thankfully Koha's IRC users are very active
17:50 rambutan ah, not praise exactly, more like discussion of functional features
17:51 rambutan and there is an Deb-approved version of OSE VirtualBox, if you can get it to work
17:51 rambutan OSE=open source edition
17:52 drojf i don't think they have this classification anymore, the free one has just less functionality now and you need nonfree extras for some things
17:55 rambutan you may be right, I don't see the OSE now.
17:55 drojf Since version 4.0   The PUEL/OSE separation was given up in favor of an open source base  product and a closed source extension pack that can be installed on top  of the base product. As part of this change, additional components of  VirtualBox were made open source (installers, documentation, device  drivers)
17:55 rambutan However, you can build the GPLv2 from sources...
17:56 rambutan quote: "The VirtualBox sources are available free of charge under the terms and conditions of the GNU General Public License, Version 2."
17:56 drojf yup and it has what you need to run koha in that version
17:57 rambutan yep
18:16 rangi Morning
18:16 wahanui Morning is a state of mind. or whenever the cat wants breakfast.
18:16 rangi I use virt-manager and kvm (fwiw)
18:23 oleonard Hi rangi
18:24 rangi Hey oleonard
18:24 wahanui oleonard is not really here.  He said so.  He did!
18:25 rangi @wunder nzwn
18:25 huginn rangi: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 14.0°C (7:00 AM NZDT on December 07, 2012). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 63%. Dew Point: 7.0°C. Pressure: 29.39 in 995 hPa (Steady).
18:31 smeagol ERROR 1166 (42000) at line 1871: Incorrect column name 'closed, anyone ever see this on an install?
18:33 rangi Looks like some zealous person removed the back ticks on a mysql file
18:33 rangi I done warned them :)
18:34 rangi Can you look in kohastructure.sql please
18:35 rangi And see if you can find the column closed
18:35 rangi And put backticks around the word closed that might fix it
18:36 rangi I'm on my phone or is try
18:36 rangi Is=I'd
18:39 oleonard Could a space cause that problem? I see  "`closed `"
18:39 rangi Hmm yes
18:40 rangi That could break it too
18:45 smeagol Um..should i wait, or try to install a diff version?.and thanks for yor response
18:46 melia left #koha
18:46 melia joined #koha
18:48 tcohen mrning rangi
18:51 tcohen s/rn/orn/
18:53 rangi smeagol: is it 3.10.0 ?
18:53 trea joined #koha
18:53 rangi hey trea, nicer weather today eh?
18:53 rangi hiya tcohen
18:53 trea i'll say
18:56 rangi hmm no file seems ok there
18:56 rangi oleonard: where did you see the space  .. in master?
18:57 oleonard Yes. I was looking at gitweb, it's in the patch for Bug 8782
18:57 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8782 new feature, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to Master , Add a feature to close a subscription
18:57 rangi right
18:57 rangi yeah its fine in 3.10.x and 3.8.x
18:58 rangi smeagol: are you trying to install master ? from git?
18:58 * rangi was worried we had released something like that ... phew
19:02 rangi either way, id file a bug
19:03 smeagol i did git clone git:// kohaclone
19:04 rangi right, so you are running master .. (the pre release code) this is in dev right eh, just for developing/testing ?
19:11 rambutan joined #koha
19:12 smeagol Actually, no I wanted to install stable (i guess) so i can create a branch and contribute code
19:13 smeagol I guess I have to state what version I want to track/install?
19:13 rangi you should contribute code based on master
19:13 smeagol Not too familiar with git yet
19:13 rangi if you want to use koha, you should run from the releases
19:13 rangi if you want to develop, then master is fine
19:13 smeagol This is just for development purposes
19:13 rangi your first patch could be removing that space :)
19:14 smeagol I haven't submitted a patch yet
19:14 jcamins_away Right, so if you want to submit code, you must track master.
19:15 smeagol Right. But this happened when i tried to run the installer:8080
19:15 jcamins_away Yeah, so the first thing you do is remove the space.
19:15 jcamins_away Then you go through the installer.
19:15 jcamins_away And if it worked, you submit a patch removign the space.
19:16 smeagol Well, I'm just trying to INSTALL koha, at this point on my server. I don't know how it's "removing" a space..
19:16 tcohen RM jcamins_away sir, what will u do about 8519?
19:17 jcamins_away bug 8519
19:17 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8519 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Passed QA , Make koha-index-daemon run on startup
19:17 oleonard tcohen: Get to it when he can, I'm guessing?
19:17 jcamins_away tcohen: I was going to push it.
19:18 jcamins_away :)
19:18 tcohen :-D
19:18 jcamins_away I am comfortable with including it, even if it's not going to be generally used yet.
19:18 jcamins_away smeagol: in order to install Koha you need to remove the extra space from the kohastructure.sql file, right?
19:18 jcamins_away (answer: yes)
19:18 tcohen its the only way to get it polished i guess
19:18 jcamins_away So the first thing you have to do is remove that space.
19:18 jcamins_away Then you can install Koha.
19:22 jcamins_away Checking out an older version and then upgrading would be extra work, and removing that space is a patch that will make it into Koha very quickly, so you can have a commit to your name next week. :)
19:22 smeagol ok..i'll look into that. Haven't really seen that in install notes. thanks
19:22 jcamins_away It's not in the install notes.
19:22 jcamins_away It's a bug.
19:22 jcamins_away Which you just discovered.
19:22 jcamins_away Actually, let's start over.
19:22 jcamins_away first question?
19:22 wahanui "What are you trying to do?" or "What is the goal?"
19:24 jcamins_away (the instructions will change drastically if I have misunderstood and your goal is not to write code to contribute to Koha)
19:25 smeagol Install koha git dev on my server here, create a branch, hack away, and submit code to the community, hopefully..if all goes well!
19:25 jcamins_away Okay, good. I understood correctly.
19:25 jcamins_away So the reason you can't install Koha is because you have discovered a new bug.
19:26 jcamins_away Your best course of action is to fix this new bug, install Koha, and submit the patch for it.
19:26 smeagol Yes, apparently
19:26 jcamins_away Earlier oleonard indicated there is an extra space after "closed" but before a backtick in installer/data/mysql/kohastructure.sql.
19:27 smeagol ok..i think i got you now. I'll get back to you.
19:27 jcamins_away The first step no matter what, of course, is to report a bug on :)
19:28 smeagol ok. will do.
19:28 smeagol I thought that it was something I was doing wrong during the install..
19:29 jcamins_away Nope. Just a bug.
19:30 smeagol ok..i'll call Zed..we have to protect the galaxy...
19:36 smeagol thx
19:45 cait joined #koha
19:46 cait hi #koha
19:46 rangi hi cait
19:46 trea joined #koha
19:47 * jcamins_away waves from the distance.
19:47 cait hi jcamins_away and rangi :)
19:47 * wizzyrea waves
19:47 cait my tablet arrived *squeee*
19:47 wizzyrea ! what kind did you get?
19:48 jcamins_away cait: so tonight you're going to install Koha on it? :)
19:48 cait not sure koh aworks on android
19:48 wizzyrea this seems - impractical
19:48 wizzyrea lol.
19:48 cait well...... quite sure it does not probably
19:48 jcamins_away cait: it will after you've made it work!
19:48 wizzyrea I'm sure it could be done but...
19:48 cait I might better spend this time on qa and other things :)
19:48 jcamins_away True.
19:48 cait the plan is to install koha on a server sometime soon and access that from the tables
19:48 cait tablet
19:49 wizzyrea that will work fine
19:58 cait wizzyrea: it's cute and tiny :)
20:00 drojf cait: run a virtual machine with debian on it :P
20:02 oleonard Seriously, spam on Bugzilla? Yuck.
20:02 jatara joined #koha
20:02 jatara Hi...which files/directories within Koha deal with permissions for staff users?
20:03 oleonard What are you trying to do/understand jatara?
20:03 drojf oleonard: really? what is the goal of that? make us accidentally push it into koha? :D
20:03 * drojf will not sign off on a spambug
20:04 oleonard I don't know drojf, rangi deleted a spam attachment but I didn't see what it was
20:04 drojf maybe some cool functionality!
20:04 jatara not a spambug..just a computer geek who is trying to see if i can isolate the source of a bug i filed yesterday 9220
20:04 jcamins_away jatara: permissions-related code is all over.
20:04 jcamins_away jatara: no, there was a spam bug earlier today. :)
20:05 oleonard Bug 9220?
20:05 drojf jatara: i did not mean you .)
20:05 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9220 major, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Unchecking "create SQL reports" prevents staff member from being able to run reports
20:05 drojf :)
20:05 jatara thanks for not breaking out the RAID on me :)
20:05 tcohen guys, i've sent a patch to DSpace, i can now say I LOVE the way the Koha team works
20:05 jcamins_away jatara: I expect the problem is going to be in the reports/ scripts.
20:06 jatara off-topic by the way, why do the commercials say "kills bug dead"? isnt' that rather redundant?
20:06 jatara @jcamins_away i'm thinking that as well
20:06 huginn jatara: I'll give you the answer just as soon as RDA is ready
20:06 jcamins_away My guess is reports/ has some bug in it.
20:07 pastebot "oleonard" at pasted "Example from" (9 lines) at
20:07 oleonard jatara: That link is for you
20:08 oleonard I don't know that that is where the problem is, but it's an example of permissions being defined
20:08 drojf tcohen: that bad?
20:08 drojf the way it works at DSpace i mean
20:08 jatara Thanks so much! Just need to find out where $flagsrequired is being set
20:08 jatara because that's where it's going awry
20:09 oleonard It's being set right there.
20:10 rangi drojf: it was just a piece of html, wasnt a patch just wanted ppl to see it
20:10 rangi tcohen: what happened with dspace, they threw the patch on the floor?
20:11 drojf rangi: ah, ok. some sophisticated patch spamming would be interesting ;)
20:12 drojf and an automatical spam rebaser
20:12 jcamins_away lol
20:13 cait hmpf.
20:13 cait I have to charge it for 8 hours before first use.
20:13 jcamins_away cait: yes, Shari was very unhappy about that too.
20:13 drojf can't you use it while it charges?
20:14 cait jcamins_away: did she manage to wait?
20:14 jcamins_away However, I have good news! There are patches to test while it's charging!
20:14 jcamins_away Yes, I think so.
20:14 drojf cait: what a tablet did you get?
20:15 drojf tcohen seems to have had a shock timeout from that dspace thing
20:15 rangi thats probably the java
20:15 rangi it destroys the internet
20:15 drojf lol
20:15 rangi one user at a time
20:16 jcamins_away lol
20:17 cait asus transformer
20:17 wizzyrea cait won't tell us what she got!
20:17 wizzyrea oh
20:17 wizzyrea nm lol.
20:17 francharb joined #koha
20:17 wizzyrea cool, you'll like
20:17 wizzyrea it
20:17 * wizzyrea had one of those
20:17 cait I heard so from several people :)
20:17 cait oh had?
20:17 wizzyrea I erm, traided it for a nexus 7
20:17 cait hehe
20:17 wizzyrea traid? trade.
20:17 wizzyrea sheesh
20:17 cait I wanted the keyboard
20:17 wizzyrea ah yea.
20:18 wizzyrea it was a nice tablet, too big for me though. Nexus is much better for me.
20:18 cait :)
20:18 wizzyrea I use it a lot more, if that's a metric by which one judges tablet success.
20:18 cait I hope to use it when travelling, typing things
20:18 cait looking at distance study stuff
20:18 wizzyrea ah yep and it'll last for ages
20:18 wizzyrea and ages
20:18 wizzyrea and ages
20:18 cait I hope so :)
20:19 wizzyrea on it's double battery
20:19 cait it'a lot less heavy than my laptop - that's for sure
20:20 drojf if you are like me you will carry around both in the future
20:21 cait ... I certainly see that happening
20:21 oleonard The woman next to me at the conference had an iphone and an ipod touch along with her laptop and she used them all to chat and check facebook
20:22 jatara a touch and an iphone? why?
20:22 oleonard I don't know!
20:23 wizzyrea oleonard: it wasn't heather was it
20:23 cait jcamins++ # you were busy
20:23 drojf "my music is on the ipod, no idea how i would copy it over (or don't know i could)"
20:23 jcamins_away cait: busy doing what?
20:23 wizzyrea she'd have an iphone, an ipad, and at least one laptop
20:23 jcamins_away Oh, right.
20:23 jcamins_away The bugs.
20:23 wahanui rumour has it the bugs is found at Please fix any bugs you find. :) or reporting them is helpful, too
20:23 wizzyrea mac of course.
20:23 cait yep
20:24 drojf jcamins_away: do you have starman running on squeeze or wheezy? i remember now why i never installed it, it wants me to build a gazillion things myself
20:24 oleonard wizzyrea: Pretty sure it wasn't although I've never met heather. This woman seemed to have come just for the peace and quiet
20:24 jcamins_away drojf: I have it on Ubuntu 12.04.
20:25 drojf ah. that probably helps
20:25 jcamins_away I think I just installed a Starman package.
20:25 jcamins_away Yes, apt-get install starman
20:25 drojf ts. poser OS. :P
20:27 jcamins_away magnuse: bug 9202 may be of interest to you.
20:27 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9202 new feature, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, Needs Signoff , TT plugin to allow direct display of MARC::Records
20:27 drojf oh i have seen that and i think it's pretty cool
20:28 jcamins_away drojf: excellent! You should sign off. :P
20:28 drojf how do you want that tested? just go nuts with all optionsß
20:28 jcamins_away Yup.
20:29 jcamins_away It's a framework for future development.
20:29 jcamins_away It would make it easy to have user-defined record views, for example.
20:29 drojf ok i'll try to have some time to play with it tomorrow
20:30 jcamins_away I expect there will be a couple of bugs.
20:30 jcamins_away I wrote it for a non-Koha project then made it general purpose, rather than going the other way.
20:32 cait drojf++ :)
20:33 drojf vorschusslorbeeren ;)
20:35 cait hehe
20:35 cait nicht wirklich :)
20:36 drojf i think i'm done with the script and more or less the evaluation for the workshop. now if somebody could write something in english about it…
20:37 cait do it like I do it- write something and then ask a friend to proof read (not me, a native speaker)
20:37 cait especialy the not me part is important :P
20:38 drojf the problem is not writing in english but writing at all :D
20:38 cait hm yes
20:38 drojf i don't know what to tell so that is actually of any interest to someone reading the newsletter
20:38 drojf "we installed koha" isn't ;)
20:42 cait how many people attended
20:42 cait where it took place... problems you ran into and that everyone took home their very own koha installation
20:50 jcamins_away Google Translate?
20:51 jcamins_away (the message on the list)
20:52 oleonard "is it possible" meaning "Can someone please do this soon and free?"
20:53 drojf i have no idea wtah the question is
20:53 drojf the opac works with a tablet by default?
20:53 jcamins_away oleonard: the "consultation" bit is what makes me think that the e-mail started out as perfectly fluent something-not-English.
20:54 wizzyrea all of koha works with tablets as far as I know
20:55 drojf i'm pretty sure it does with mine :)
20:55 wizzyrea mine too
20:55 jcamins_away And the CCSR theme for the OPAC scales down well for much smaller devices.
20:55 drojf cait: to the test! ;)
20:55 jcamins_away drojf: in 7:30. :P
20:55 drojf oh, charging. sorry
20:55 wizzyrea drojf what kind of tab do you have?
20:55 drojf wizzyrea: hp touchpad
20:55 cait drojf: I have to wait 8 hours... remember
20:55 wizzyrea oh, heh
20:55 drojf cait: yes i remembered :(
20:55 wizzyrea but you run android on it?
20:56 wizzyrea or webos
20:56 drojf wizzyrea: no, webOS and a ubuntu chroot
20:56 wizzyrea I am glad that works for you
20:56 * wizzyrea would probably not go that route.
20:56 wizzyrea my best friend has a touchpad - she put android on hers
20:57 wizzyrea it's tolerable with android on it ^.^
20:57 * wizzyrea is not a fan of webos.
20:57 drojf i'm not a big fan of android (not that i have much experience). webOS is obviously not complete but i can live with it
20:58 drojf i only got it because it was 99€. i would not have bought it for >400€
20:58 wizzyrea oh definitely
20:58 wizzyrea I would not buy one of them for anything over 99
20:58 wizzyrea if you haven't used android in the last 18 months - it is not the same OS as what you would have seen 2 years ago
20:59 drojf it's ridiculous that HP sold them for full price in that state
20:59 wizzyrea no kidding.
21:00 drojf i was thinking of trying dual boot at some point, but since i only got 16gb and the chroot needs an extra partition that is not really an option. or i stuff the thing with operating systems and not use anything ;)
21:01 wizzyrea or nuke webos :P
21:01 wizzyrea ^.^
21:01 wizzyrea j/k, your way is perfect for you
21:01 drojf then i lose my ubuntu too
21:01 wizzyrea as long as you are happy
21:02 drojf one day i will have openwebOS. if they ever backport it ^^
21:03 jcamins_away drojf: did you install Koha on it yet?
21:03 drojf jcamins_away: not really. but i know i should ;)
21:11 oleonard See you later #koha
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21:56 eythian hi
21:58 cait hi eythian :)
22:03 trea left #koha
22:03 trea joined #koha
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22:06 eythian
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22:09 cait lol
22:09 cait wiggles and squirms, is evil
22:10 remi joined #koha
22:10 remi hi
22:11 cait hi remi
22:12 remi i'm thinking of installing koha on a server that's running my website
22:13 remi can i do it?
22:14 remi bit confused
22:14 drojf that is a pretty vague question
22:15 wizzyrea remi: that should be possible
22:15 drojf is that a root server? what os is it running…
22:15 remi debian
22:15 wizzyrea if you mean "I have a linux server that runs my website and I want koha to be an additional host on this machine"
22:15 wizzyrea (which is what I read)
22:16 remi yes
22:16 drojf if you have root access that sounds alright
22:17 nengard left #koha
22:19 francharb see ya all
22:20 rambutan joined #koha
22:22 drojf hm
22:45 jatara :)
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