IRC log for #koha, 2012-11-14

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:01 mtj yeah, a quick google says dbs on ssds is bad
00:01 mtj yeah
00:06 mtj hey trea , congrats on making it over, too! :)
00:08 trea hey thanks!
00:08 mtj did the bass rig make it over?
00:09 trea ha! should be here any day now.
00:10 mtj cool
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00:20 mib_9kf7xj hi i've tried unsuccesfully to use something link postfix, nullmailer, mailutils etc. to allow koha to send automated emails. I just don't know how to make it work. does anyone know of a good guide to set it up? the document files doesn't help me much
00:20 trea postfix?
00:20 wahanui postfix is found at (but you probably can skip the SASL stuff) or at
00:21 trea koha just needs a standard smtp mailer. nothing sophisticated beyond standard smtp administration is required.
00:22 mib_9kf7xj i tried following the steps on both those sites.. but I've not ever managed to get emails to work. I know it sounds stupid, but i've done everything else succesfullly, lan networking, koha set up etc. just the emails doenst
00:26 rangi[…]Postfix_on_Debian
00:52 eythian mib_9kf7xj: are you using packages, if so did you run koha-enable-email instancename
00:52 eythian or maybe it's koha-email-enable
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06:11 francharb joined #koha
06:12 francharb hi
06:12 wahanui hello, francharb
06:17 cait hi frn
06:17 cait hi francharb :)
06:18 francharb morning cait 0/
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07:12 alex_a bonjour
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07:26 * magnuse waves
07:26 lds joined #koha
07:32 magnuse kia ora jransom
07:32 magnuse ...and laurence sophie_m lds
07:32 lds hello
07:32 laurence hi magnuse
07:39 reiveune joined #koha
07:39 reiveune hello
07:41 laurence bonjour reiveune
07:41 reiveune coucou laurence :)
07:42 julian_m joined #koha
07:42 julian_m hello
07:43 cait hi all :)
07:43 cait and brb
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07:51 koyauni Defining circulation and fine rules, how can I clone the best rule for my university?
07:51 koyauni do you guys have any suggestion please?
07:58 sophie_m hi magnuse and #koha
08:03 matts hi !
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08:27 mib_zmd39n joined #koha
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09:27 mib_ozrkj4 hi all. When I set the delay time for advance notice of item due, ie pre-due notice.. do i use lets say 3 days or -3 days?
09:27 gerundio joined #koha
09:27 kf positive values
09:27 kf due date + 3 days
09:27 kf um sorry
09:28 kf 3 days before due date
09:28 kf now it makes more sense
09:28 mib_ozrkj4 oh thanks, i wasn't sure about this
09:28 mib_ozrkj4 so i just put a positive number in for predue notices right?
09:29 mib_ozrkj4 i see what you mean, put in 3, which means "notice will be sent 3 days before due date"
09:32 kf hm
09:33 kf where are you putting those numbers?
09:33 kf it's a pull down in my installation with positive values
09:36 mib_ozrkj4 in the overdue notice/status triggers. is this where you set pre-due notices..or another place?
09:36 mib_ozrkj4 is this purely for overdue notices?
09:41 kf no that are overdue notices
09:41 kf predue are set somewhere else
09:41 mib_ozrkj4 do you know where please?
09:41 kf first you need to activate your enhanced messaging in the system preferences
09:41 kf manual?
09:41 wahanui i guess manual is at
09:42 kf and then take a look at patron category configuration in administration
09:42 kf and look into individual patron accounts
09:42 kf and search the manual for predue :)
09:46 mib_ozrkj4 oh thanks, the thing is i updated to 3.8.6 today from 3.8.4 and messaging options wasn't available under patron category
09:46 mib_ozrkj4 thanks.. i didn't see this in the manual, late at night now i need sleep
09:48 kf sleep well :)
09:48 kf koha will still be here in the morning
09:48 kf the syspref turned on will fix it
10:29 kf @later tell drojf ping me when you are around? :)
10:29 huginn kf: The operation succeeded.
10:41 drojf1 joined #koha
10:41 drojf1 good day #koha
10:44 gerundio joined #koha
10:45 kf hi drojf1 :)
11:06 drojf1 :)
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12:00 magnuse hey libsysguy, did you mention something about a mechanized testing suite?
12:01 libsysguy yeah, did you read my morning company email ;)
12:01 magnuse nope :-)
12:01 magnuse think it was mentioned at the last meeting ?
12:02 * magnuse is curious to see it :-)
12:02 libsysguy yes it was
12:02 libsysguy actually after doing a bit of research i found there is a FOSS project doing exactly what I was trying to do
12:02 libsysguy Selenium
12:02 wahanui Selenium is, like, more things like "perform this action, ensure that this is the result"
12:03 libsysguy and it has a generator for Perl
12:03 magnuse ah yes, i think someone already did a little bit of work on that and koha?
12:03 libsysguy if wahanui knows about it probably so
12:03 libsysguy I was going t us WWW::Mechanize initially with HTTP::Recorder
12:04 libsysguy but selenium makes life a bit easier than re-inventing the wheel
12:05 magnuse hehe
12:05 magnuse there is a selenium/ folder:[…]=selenium;hb=HEAD
12:06 libsysguy ahh yup
12:06 libsysguy those are some selenium scripts
12:06 libsysguy I wonder why it was abandoned
12:07 magnuse no idea
12:07 * libsysguy is now nervous
12:08 libsysguy anyway, thats the first step I'd like to take toward automated testing
12:08 magnuse cool
12:08 magnuse so it's an ongoing project?
12:08 libsysguy yeah I am planning on working on it from now until the end of december full time
12:08 libsysguy at least
12:08 magnuse i got the impression from the meeting log that it was just waiting to be revealed to the world :-)
12:09 magnuse oh very cool
12:09 * magnuse wonders if jcamins_away has an opinon on selenium vs test::www::mechanize
12:09 libsysguy heh
12:10 libsysguy jcamins_away: has an opinion about everything :p
12:10 magnuse :-)
12:10 libsysguy jcamins_away: once told me that he found the color of my socks appalling
12:10 libsysguy ^^ only kidding
12:10 magnuse hehe
12:11 kf libsysguy: I ran into some problems with selenium - it might not work as well as your approach
12:12 libsysguy i think an important part of getting more robust testing is forcing devels to submit tests with their code
12:12 libsysguy kf, what kind of problems?
12:12 kf I was using the browser plugin
12:12 kf and had problems recording some things
12:12 kf also with the base urls
12:13 kf it seems recording was fine, but replaying it after a week or so, or in another installation...
12:13 kf I gave up on it
12:13 libsysguy ahh I gotcha
12:13 libsysguy it records on ID's so that may have been the problem you were seeing but WWW::Mechinize would suffer the same fate
12:14 kf I think francharb tried out selenium too
12:14 * magnuse has written test::www::mechanize teste for the digital signs and didn't find it horrible :-)
12:14 kf what's the problem with http:recorder?
12:15 kf magnuse: yeah, I did one with rangi at kohacon
12:15 kf seemed not too hard and being able to see more about what is going on
12:15 libsysguy it does the exact same thing as selenium
12:15 magnuse kf: but you didn't submit it?
12:15 kf nah, it was only for playing :)
12:15 kf to learn how to use it
12:16 libsysguy it seems like whoever submitted the selenium stuff didn't update the baseurl or host
12:16 magnuse ah
12:16 libsysguy HDL...
12:16 libsysguy :p
12:21 magnuse how would i run the existing tests in selenium/ ? just as regular perl scripts? or through something like prove?
12:23 libsysguy i think you can run them as perl scripts
12:23 magnuse okelydokely
12:23 libsysguy though you will probably have to change the host
12:23 magnuse yeah, looks like it
12:23 magnuse i'll have to investigate some more later, i guess
12:26 libsysguy well don't worry I've got all day dedicated to it
12:26 libsysguy I can post the results somewhere if you guys want
12:30 libsysguy ha I got it to work with the old test
12:32 libsysguy but I think these tests were written for an old version
12:32 magnuse yeah, probably
12:32 libsysguy so with test you did have to run them with prove
12:33 libsysguy but I think for the WWW version you can just run the script
12:33 magnuse looks like they were added in 2009 - 3 years ago now
12:33 libsysguy yeah I think oleonard would agree…too old for the current UI
12:34 * magnuse likes prove :-)
12:34 libsysguy it is handy for sure
12:34 libsysguy they need subfunctions "prove by contrapositive"
12:37 francharb kf, I tried selenium, yep! but the firefox plugin doesn't work with firefox last versions .... I didn't have time to retest rangi httprecorder script but I guess it's a better option for now...
12:40 jcamins_away magnuse: libsysguy: I prefer Test::WWW::Mechanize where it is sufficient.
12:40 jcamins_away Selenium requires a web browser.
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12:41 magnuse jcamins_away: requires a web browser - for creating the tests, or for running them too?
12:41 libsysguy running them
12:41 libsysguy so it can also run the javascript
12:42 kf libsysguy: as I found selenium not well working for me, I kinda like http::recorder more at the moment
12:42 jcamins_away magnuse: running them.
12:44 libsysguy :'(
12:46 magnuse ah, being able to run (and test) javascript is cool, though
12:46 libsysguy yeah that is why I like it
12:47 libsysguy we can do both
12:47 libsysguy but its really nice to be able to verify the page looks the way its supposed to
12:49 kf hm guess the javascript is a plus again :)
12:50 libsysguy I think so, considering we are relying on it more heavily
12:50 magnuse i suspect we will not be too choosy - if "someone" makes lots of selenium tests that do a good job they will hardly be turned away because they are written for the wrong framework?
12:51 libsysguy well my goal is to make it stupidly easy for libraries to write their own tests
12:51 magnuse yay :-)
12:51 libsysguy and I think selenium does that
12:52 libsysguy it has a FF plugin
12:52 kf libsysguy: it's is not sutpidly easy
12:52 kf even with the plugin :(
12:52 kf I had problems when the page took too long to load and stuff like that
12:52 libsysguy well maybe not now…I want to make it that way :p
12:52 kf but that was a few versions ago
12:53 kf and maybe it was just me being too stupid :)
12:53 libsysguy whatever kf you're a smarty-pants
12:54 kf lol
12:54 kf I can just pretend the software has improved a lot since last time I used it - whatever happens :)
12:54 libsysguy I'm just happy to be working on something other than the calendar
12:55 libsysguy is about ready to torch the calendar
12:55 magnuse hehe
12:56 libsysguy speaking of the calendar
12:56 libsysguy when is DBIx::Class going to get some QA love :p
13:01 magnuse dbic++
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13:31 oleonard Hi #koha
13:32 libsysguy hi oleonard
13:32 oleonard fredericd around?
13:45 jcamins_away magnuse: no, of course, any Selenium tests will be joyfully accepted.
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13:48 oleonard Hm, ccsr theme has no favicon.
13:52 francharb` joined #koha
13:52 oleonard The code which chooses the "default" include if it's not present in ccsr probably ignores favicon.ico. Not sure why favicon.ico is in includes anyway.
14:26 tcohen how was the pprocedure to change a commit message?
14:26 tcohen (we run out of coffee this morning, sorry)
14:27 kf tcohen: different ways to do it I think - git commit --amend maybe?
14:28 tcohen thanks kf
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14:51 oleonard There are not packages for Data::Pagination , Data::Paginator, or Template::Plugin::HtmlToText ?
14:51 tcohen there are
14:51 tcohen for squeeze-dev i think
14:52 * oleonard is on Ubuntu 12.04
14:53 senator joined #koha
14:53 tcohen oh, sorry, i was talking about
14:53 tcohen eythian packaged those, but you need to add k-c repository
15:01 tcohen http://debian.koha-community.o[…]a/pool/main/libt/
15:02 tcohen oleonard: looks like Data::Pagination doesn't have a package yert
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15:05 kf tcohen: I think it's onl yneededfor solr - jcamins would now
15:05 kf know
15:05 kf sorry, bad typing
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15:06 tcohen khall, when you did those tests for holidays, what did the RM say about adding them to all languages?
15:06 tcohen thanks kf, i was answering oleonard
15:07 tcohen jcamins_away
15:07 wahanui well, jcamins_away is probably not here, but you don't have to take my word for it!
15:07 tcohen r u there?
15:07 sophie_m joined #koha
15:07 * oleonard is trying an install of 3.10.x with an empty database
15:07 khall tcohen, it's been a while, what's the bug number on that one?
15:08 tcohen bug 8110
15:08 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8110 normal, P1 - high, ---, kyle.m.hall, Pushed to Master , Add tests for Calendar modules
15:08 tcohen i'm just about to post some more tests
15:09 tcohen and needed to know whether i should add them to all languages or not
15:09 kf tcohen: ah sorry, should read back first :)
15:10 khall tcohen: I would err on the side of all languages ( you can always make them a separate patch )
15:11 tcohen oh, i remember fr didn't have the MPL branch defined
15:11 kf bye all
15:12 kf left #koha
15:12 khall tcohen, I think the answer is to add an MPL branch for all languages
15:12 tcohen thanks khall
15:12 tcohen (i agree)
15:13 khall always glad to help!
15:16 oleonard Is the system preferences Local Use tab supposed to be reserved for prefs which shouldn't really be changed?
15:17 oleonard If so, should it include OpacPrivacy and printcirculationslips?
15:17 jcamins tcohen: I am now.
15:17 tcohen i'm writing a few db-dependant tests
15:17 tcohen (holidays)
15:18 jcamins oleonard: the Local Use tab is for sysprefs that are being used for something other than system preference-y data.
15:18 jcamins (and local sysprefs)
15:18 tcohen would the RM want them on all languages?
15:18 tcohen or just en for sandbox testing?
15:18 jcamins tcohen: your tests should pass under all languages.
15:19 jcamins They do not have to be translated, however.
15:19 tcohen jcamins, do all db_dependent pass on all languages right now?
15:19 jcamins tcohen: all but the branch-related ones, I think.
15:20 jcamins (missing sample data)
15:20 tcohen so it is possible that Holidays.t fails fr non-en languages right now
15:20 tcohen (MPL branch is used)
15:21 jcamins Yeah, MPL is the branch that is missing from the non-en sample data.
15:21 chris_n g'morning
15:22 tcohen oops, exception holidays are not passing my tests :-(
15:23 tcohen i guess they will once 8800 is pushed
15:24 jcamins tcohen: that'd be a good thing to test.
15:24 jcamins *check
15:24 jcamins We like tests that fail when there's a bug and succeed when there isn't.
15:26 tcohen no, it won't fix it
15:26 tcohen theres another bug
15:26 jcamins Don't you hate that?
15:26 jcamins Fix a bug, and you find more.
15:28 tcohen with infinite time we'll fix them all
15:28 tcohen :-D
15:29 magnuse yay!
15:29 jcamins Something just struck me.
15:30 tcohen jcamins, is it ok if I make the patch depend on bug 8800?
15:30 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8800 blocker, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Needs Signoff , SpecifyDueDate && useDaysMode=Datedue wrong behaviour
15:30 jcamins tcohen: of course.
15:30 jcamins Right now, C4::VirtualShelves is not really Plack-safe, since any time the database connection times out, it fails to detect the new connection.
15:31 jcamins However, I seem to be the first person to have noticed this.
15:31 jcamins Does that mean that under Plack + MySQL database connections *never* time out?
15:33 drojf joined #koha
15:33 * drojf sneaks in
15:36 * jcamins waves
15:40 * magnuse waves
15:44 magnuse jcamins: in some side remark on some authority-related bug you mentioned something about automating the creation of narrower/broader heading, so if i say "A is broader than B", "B is narrower then A" is automatically added. any concrete plans for that?
15:48 jcamins magnuse: not yet.
15:48 magnuse okelydokely
15:51 tcohen jcamins, fr-F R doesn't even have an 'optional' dir
15:51 jcamins tcohen: it's called something different.
15:51 tcohen (so it-IT and nb-NO)
15:52 jcamins tcohen: 1-Optionel
15:52 tcohen ok
15:52 tcohen it-IT doesnt have an alternate name
15:52 tcohen (nb-NO does)
15:53 jcamins It may simply be missing.
15:53 tcohen ok, i'll add the new sample holidays for those that have
15:53 tcohen and fill a bug for those that doesn't hace sample data
15:58 jcamins Sounds good, thanks!
16:00 magnuse for nb-NB it's mandator = Obligatorisk and optional = Valgfritt
16:00 magnuse i'm not sure using those names were a good idea, though
16:00 magnuse s/nb-NB/nb-NO/
16:20 cait joined #koha
16:23 * cait waves
16:28 gaetan_B joined #koha
16:39 reiveune bye
16:39 reiveune left #koha
16:57 libsysguy joined #koha
17:03 melia joined #koha
17:07 * oleonard shakes his fist at Firfox for crashing while he was entering a bug
17:10 libsysguy shoulda used chrome
17:10 libsysguy :p
17:32 jcamins We're nearing the release of 3.10.
17:36 jcamins libsysguy: bug 8800, bug 9074, bug 9078, bug 9041
17:36 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8800 blocker, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Needs Signoff , SpecifyDueDate && useDaysMode=Datedue wrong behaviour
17:36 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9074 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Needs Signoff , DB dependent tests for is_holiday
17:36 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9078 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, NEW , is_holiday should honour holiday exceptions
17:36 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9041 critical, P1 - high, ---, koha-bugs, RESOLVED DUPLICATE, Hourly fines does not work in koha 3.8.6
17:36 jcamins Oh, not 9041, sorry.
17:37 libsysguy geez somebody has been busy
17:44 * jcamins would like signoffs on those three today or tomorrow... I should e-mail the list.
17:44 jcamins tcohen: are you sure those two are enhancements?
17:44 tcohen they are not :-D
17:48 tcohen ouch
17:59 tcohen gotta leave
17:59 tcohen bye koha
18:17 cait oleonard++
18:19 rangi Morning
18:19 wahanui Morning is a state of mind. or whenever the cat wants breakfast.
18:19 cait morning rangi
18:19 jcamins Morning.
18:19 wahanui somebody said morning was a state of mind. or whenever the cat wants breakfast.
18:19 oleonard Did they indeed wahanui?
18:19 oleonard I wonder who said that.
18:19 jcamins wahanui: who told you that morning was whenever the cat wants breakfast?
18:19 wahanui jcamins: wish i knew
18:20 jcamins oleonard: so does wahanui.
18:21 jcamins Now is apparently a good time for the cats to get into trouble.
18:21 jcamins Now?
18:21 wahanui it has been said that Now is good time with holidays coming up
18:22 jcamins True.
18:22 chris_n hi rangi
18:22 cait my bet is on brooke
18:23 jcamins Hehe.
18:23 jcamins Probably.
18:24 oleonard Speaking of famfamfam, Bug 8662 would be so much fun to sign off on!
18:24 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8662 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , Remove unused famfamfam icons
18:27 rangi Hmm I should declare a 3.8.7 string freeze
18:28 rangi We are thinking you move 3.6.x to a 2 month cycle. So 3.6.11 in December
18:29 rangi There's only 2 patches so far
18:29 jcamins rangi: sounds good to me, so long as "you" was to someone other than me. :P
18:29 rangi Hehe I meant we
18:29 chris_n nice, broad, pronoun
18:30 rangi Wizzyrea and I
18:31 cait aw
18:34 oleonard Did y'all tell me that adding Bootstrap dependencies was not going to work until we upgraded Koha's license, because Apache 2.0 is incompatible?
18:34 jcamins oleonard: yes we did.
18:35 oleonard Okay, so let's officially restart the license discussion
18:35 jcamins +1
18:36 oleonard mtj proposed doing so a couple months ago but asked for someone else to volunteer. I don't think I understand the details well enough to do it. Is anyone else willing?
18:37 cait same for me - not sure about the details
18:38 * chris_n fears it will bog down again
18:38 rangi I'm tarnished
18:38 jcamins I'm grouchy.
18:39 rangi But I would push for gpl3
18:39 * druthb hands rangi the tarn-x, and hands jcamins a cookie.
18:39 rangi It was agpl3 that was contentious
18:40 rangi Moving from 2 or later to 3 or later shouldn't be an issue
18:40 rangi And doesn't even need permission but it is nice to get a consensus
18:40 jcamins Oh, you're right, it doesn't, does it?
18:41 * jcamins hadn't thought of that.
18:41 rangi Nope
18:41 jcamins Still a good idea to do it, of course.
18:41 rangi Just a general buy in
18:41 rangi Yep
18:42 rangi Ok my stop
18:43 cait but the other might be easier to achieve
18:43 jcamins cait: what other?
18:43 wahanui hmmm... other is to add additional counts.
18:43 jcamins GPL3?
18:43 wahanui i think GPL3 is rangi's default
18:43 jcamins Yeah, that was rangi's point. :)
18:44 oleonard Well if no one wants to start the conversation by lobbying for something I'll start it by explaining my goal
18:45 cait yeah, gpl3 seems easier
18:45 cait and would help with some things like bootstrap
18:46 cait oleonard++ #again :)
18:47 jcamins The kitten just fell off the table.
18:48 cait oh no!
18:48 jcamins It seems to be fine.
18:48 cait oh, but it was not myshkin
18:48 cait but the blue one
18:48 cait today is wednesday.
18:48 jcamins Actually, it was my client's new kitten.
18:49 cait oh a new kitten?
18:49 jcamins The blue cat is old enough that he doesn't fall off tables.
18:49 cait which color is it?
18:49 jcamins Gray.
18:49 jcamins[…]_1015748123_n.jpg
18:50 jcamins Cat attack!
18:50 cait more a cute attack
18:50 cait maybe it will get to be blue when it#s grown up?
18:50 * gmcharlt looks at photo, dies from cuteness
18:50 jcamins You wouldn't find it so cute if it's clumsy little needle-sharp claws were flying at your face as it wiggled around trying to catch it's balance. :P
18:51 jcamins I don't think so. It's a different breed.
18:51 cait jcamins: I am not sure that would stop it from being cute
18:51 cait should we do something about gmcharlt?
18:51 jcamins lol
18:51 * jcamins is too busy cowering, sorry.
18:51 gmcharlt heh
18:52 cait ah he is back
18:52 cait phew
18:52 cait gmcharlt: as you are here...
18:52 cait I added a topic to the next meeting, I was wondering if we could find a way to stop spam on the wiki more effectively
18:52 cait maybe if there is no other way by getting more people to delete it
18:53 * cait holds up picturs of cute cats
18:53 gmcharlt cait: sure
19:01 rangi[…]ace=all&username=
19:02 rangi is what i watch
19:02 gmcharlt one option - do what EG does and have a group of people manually approving new accounts
19:02 rangi id be ok with that
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19:03 trea joined #koha
19:03 * jcamins is fine with that as long as he isn't one of those people.
19:04 rangi morning trea
19:04 trea morning rangi
19:05 cait morning rangi :)
19:06 cait gmcharlt: sounds ok to me too - if we get people from different timezones we should get it covered
19:06 gmcharlt sounds like a plan, then
19:07 gmcharlt and as long as we all survie jcamins' stream of cute kitty pictures...
19:07 rangi heh
19:07 cait lol
19:07 rangi bug 9072
19:07 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9072 enhancement, P3, ---, fridolyn.somers, Needs Signoff , Add sort order option to Linker
19:07 * jcamins approves of that.
19:07 rangi yeah it sounds good to me
19:08 jcamins Though if "History" and "History of Science" are both options for a link, that suggests there's something wrong with the UNIMARC Zebra configuration.
19:08 cait gmcharlt: will you be able to attend the next meeting? or maybe move to the mailing list?
19:15 gmcharlt cait: when is the next meeting?
19:15 cait next meeting?
19:15 wahanui next meeting is, like, 18 July 2012 at 10:00 UTC+0
19:15 cait hm wroooong wahanui
19:15 jcamins Hm. Probably not.
19:15 * gmcharlt dials up his TARDIS
19:15 cait forget next meeting
19:15 wahanui cait: I forgot next meeting
19:15 cait next meeting is December 5th 18 UTC
19:15 cait next meeting?
19:15 wahanui i guess next meeting is December 5th 18 UTC
19:15 gmcharlt cait: yeah, I"ll be there
19:15 cait now I only hope I got the time right :)
19:16 Topic for #koha is now Welcome to #koha this channel is for discussion of the Koha project and software The next general meeting is 5 December 2012 18:00 UTC
19:16 cait thx :)
19:37 * chris_n watches nengard's qod tutorial and notes a bug in qod feature
19:37 chris_n nengard++ # for an excellent qod tutorial
19:43 maximep oleonard: have you looked at ?
19:44 maximep pretty much same features as bootstrap, but mit license
19:44 maximep and based around sass
19:44 maximep I guess mit works with gpl2, right ?
19:44 cait does someone know where the opac news on the checkin slip is supposed to come from? I added news for opac in 2 languages and for slip, but none of those show up
19:46 jcamins maximep: the MIT license is compatible, but upgrading to GPLv3+ is a good idea anyway.
19:47 oleonard maximep: I haven't looked at it, but I'm more comfortable with Bootstrap just from the point of view of its large community
19:48 * jcamins isn't 100% comfortable with sass.
19:48 jcamins It requires a compilation step.
19:49 maximep yeah, but it is really amazing
19:49 maximep we switched to it on all our projects
19:49 oleonard maximep: It looks like it's mostly just a gride framework? It doesn't have the interface widgets that Bootstrap offers
19:49 maximep but I can understand
19:49 rangi gplv3 offers the patent protection
19:50 rangi which can't hurt
19:51 maximep oh youre looking to use bootstrap's widgets ? I didnt even know it included widgets
19:51 maximep I guess we only use it's grid
19:51 rangi right, training time
19:51 rangi bbl
19:52 maximep foundation has some
19:53 chris_n now, if it really is only that easy :-)
19:54 maximep i can understand not wanting to use sass, but bootsrap uses less, no ?
19:55 oleonard It can be built using less, but doesn't have to be.
19:56 maximep ha ok
19:57 * jcamins is not the final word on this- if oleonard said "we should use sass," I would be convinced.
19:57 * oleonard isn't convinced that sass or less would make a big difference for Koha
19:58 * maximep is
19:58 maximep because my coworker just convinced me
19:59 maximep you can have config files in foundation (in sass) and change all the fonts, colors
19:59 maximep etc, all in 1 config file
19:59 maximep I really think sass is the future
20:00 * cait sighs.
20:00 jcamins maximep: can't you do that in CSS too?
20:00 jcamins Isn't that the entire point of a stylesheet?
20:00 oleonard I could see that being a useful feature if we wanted to build a custom CSS configuration tool in the staff client, allowing users to generate their own theme
20:00 maximep yes, but you do it for every html tag
20:00 maximep sass has variables
20:00 oleonard ...but that's a big step from saying "let's use it"
20:01 maximep and sass requires ruby :/
20:01 maximep not always fun to install
20:01 maximep it sucks for windows folks :p
20:01 * jcamins will not be pushing anything that requires Ruby during 3.12.
20:02 * cait supports jcamins
20:03 maximep well it requires ruby for developers
20:03 maximep sass generates good old css
20:03 jcamins maximep: right. No Ruby dependencies.
20:05 oleonard I think sass and less are much more useful when you're frequently building sites from scratch. I don't see them as being so useful with the kind of incremental changes we usually deal with.
20:06 jcamins Bootstrap doesn't require Ruby, does it?
20:07 oleonard No
20:07 jcamins Good.
20:07 maximep less requires node.js... way worst. But I guess bootstraps doesnt *require* less :p
20:08 maximep you don't like ruby ?
20:08 maximep :P
20:08 jcamins maximep: no, Ruby's fine.
20:08 jcamins Just so long as it's not on my server.
20:08 maximep o_O
20:10 cait maximep: I think we shouldn't start making use of every language possible, but that's only my opinion :)
20:10 cait we already got java in the mix now with solr
20:10 maximep haha
20:11 maximep I can't wait for solr in koha
20:11 jcamins maximep: it's there.
20:11 jcamins You just can't use authorities with it.
20:11 maximep used it in a couple of projects and I just love it
20:12 jcamins Once the search rewrite is finished (hint hint) it will be on the same level of support as Zebra.
20:12 maximep yeah... I can't wait for a stable and feature complete solr
20:12 maximep in koha :p
20:12 jcamins Good news!
20:12 wahanui hmmm... good news is it looks like it's running properly.
20:12 maximep well then I can't wait for the search rewrite haha
20:12 jcamins It is within your power to make that come sooner!
20:12 jcamins search rewrite?
20:12 wahanui search rewrite is[…]earch_Rewrite_RFC
20:13 jcamins Finished.
20:13 jcamins (with cataloging, not the search rewrite)
20:13 jcamins (but you can help with the completion of the search rewrite, just speak to your friendly neighborhood C & P representative about signing on as a sponsor)
20:14 oleonard Hey, what happened to that friendly neighborhood C & P representative?
20:15 jcamins_away oleonard: he hears all and sees all, fear not. :)
20:15 francharb` good night all
20:15 cait oleonard: can I just be imagining all those little and big things i find while testing?
20:15 oleonard ?
20:16 cait I am filing bugs while testing notices :(
20:17 cait and I am waiting for someone to tell me it's me
20:19 oleonard I'm guessing it's not you cait. I work with notices very little though.
20:19 cait we use almost all of them in various libraries
20:21 maximep well if I had 10000$ I would sponsor the rewrite :p
20:23 hankbank joined #koha
20:30 cait maximep: I think he takes smaller amounts too ;)
20:38 bag @seen sekjal
20:38 huginn bag: sekjal was last seen in #koha 3 weeks, 5 days, 4 hours, 41 minutes, and 45 seconds ago: <sekjal> this is one of the first times I've listened to music at work… that's definitey something I miss from my home office days
20:40 cait hi bag
20:40 bag heya cait
20:41 Manderson1 joined #koha
20:43 chris_n interesting:
20:43 chris_n Changes submitted for bug 9085
20:43 chris_n Email sent to:
20:43 chris_n no one
20:43 chris_n Excluding:
20:43 chris_n
20:43 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=9085 major, P5 - low, ---, cnighswonger, Needs Signoff , Installer will not run with DEBUG set
20:43 chris_n seems broken
20:43 chris_n should not updates to the status field be sent to someone?
20:44 cait hm
20:44 chris_n also, git-bz failed to set the status in spite of being told to do so
20:44 cait it looks a bit weird, yes, but my newly filed bugs went through I think
20:44 cait ah I know I think
20:44 cait it#s not sent to you, because you filed it
20:44 chris_n but it alos excludes koha-bugs
20:44 cait hm and it really didn't get there?
20:45 cait I see your change to needs signoff
20:45 cait and the patch
20:45 wahanui the patch is, like, in koha-patches
20:45 oleonard Me too
20:45 * chris_n hasn't had a mail from koha-bugs since may for some reason
20:46 chris_n hmm... bug spray must have worked too well
20:46 chris_n glad to know its working, though
20:47 chris_n tnx cait && oleonard
21:09 oleonard See ya #koha
21:13 tcohen joined #koha
21:19 eythian tcohen: I don't plan to package Data::Pagination as we aren't allowed to distribute it.
21:19 cait ouch
21:20 tcohen ouch
21:20 eythian and so shouldn't really be using it.
21:20 tcohen i thought all cpan modules where distributed under the same terms Perl is
21:20 eythian if so, that's great. This one has no license information at all.
21:21 * eythian looks to see if there's a standard rule for this
21:25 eythian[…]ensing_guidelines <-- here's the rules (even though it says guidelines) for licensing CPAN modules. This module violates the "must" rules by providing no licensing information.
21:27 cait eythian: so the author should fix it, I think? if he wants it on CPAN?
21:27 cait he/she
21:28 cait and hi eythian :)
21:28 eythian Well, it is on CPAN already. I've filed a bug against the module, and emailed the author, but had no response.
21:29 eythian hi cait
21:36 Sammy joined #koha
21:37 Guest5645 Hi. If I run: sudo koha-foreach --enabled --email /usr/share/koha/bin/maintenance/b​orrowers-force-messaging-defaults   - then this should enable the default messaging options for all patrons, correct? what is the default?
21:38 eythian Guest5645: it should, yes
21:38 eythian the default is whatever you set in the patron category settings section of administration
21:38 Guest5645 so what is the default? because it doesn't seem to have changed any thing in the messaging options, nothing is ticked.
21:39 Guest5645 brb...
21:43 mib_au53d5 joined #koha
21:44 Jurgens joined #koha
21:45 Jurgens Hi. had to go offline for a sec. i checked my default messaging options under home>administration>patron categories and its set to include item due and advance notice.
21:45 Jurgens when i ran the borrowers-force-messaging-defaults still no boxes are ticked.
21:46 eythian I haven't used that script, so I can't tell you for sure, but I would expect that to work.
21:46 eythian does koha-list --enabled --email do what you'd expect?
21:46 Jurgens I am able to have an email sent out when an item is checked in and out... but no other notices are being sent.. even when i run the process_message_queue script.
21:47 Jurgens and the overdues and advanced message script
21:48 Jurgens koha-list --enabled --email says grep: /etc/apace2/sites-available/library: Permission denied then on the next line prints library which is the instance name
21:49 eythian ok, that's an OK response.
21:49 eythian hmm
21:49 Jurgens so i just ran sudo koha-list --enabled --email and it prints the instance name. I have in the past told koha to enable sending emails.
21:50 Jurgens My question really is why am I automatically able to send check-in and check-out emails for manually adjusted for patrons, but the overdue messages doesn't work  - i thought that should always be able to be sent when you've enabled emails.
21:50 eythian you could try running the command by hand. Along the lines of: PERL5LIB=/usr/share/koha KOHA_CONF=/etc/koha/sites/library/koha-conf.xml /usr/share/koha/bin/maintenance/b​orrowers-force-messaging-defaults
21:51 eythian oh, prefix that with sudo -u koha-library env
21:51 eythian overdue notices should work, they are only calculated daily however.
21:52 eythian oh
21:52 eythian also, you should look at the docs for force-borrower-messaging-defaults
21:52 eythian as you need to pass it '--doit' to actually have it apply the changes.
21:52 eythian use '--help' for info
21:56 liw joined #koha
22:00 cait good night #koha
22:06 Jurgens when I try to pass the arguement --doit the terminal just spews up stuff saying it doens't understand it
22:08 eythian what exactly does it say?
22:08 eythian because this is in the code:
22:08 eythian my $result = GetOptions(
22:08 eythian 'doit'     => \$doit,
22:08 eythian so it almost certainly understands it
22:09 Ccorrales joined #koha
22:14 Jurgens so the standard line to my knowledge is: sudo koha-foreach --enabled --email /usr/share/koha/bin/maintenance/b​orrowers-force-messaging-defaults
22:15 Jurgens what is the best way to alter this  to get it to force messaging defaults.
22:16 Jurgens To be honest, this is of little concern to me at this point, i just don't seem to be able to get any overdue messages sent at all.
22:16 eythian put '--doit' at the end should work
22:16 Jurgens I would rather have overdues sent than advanced notices and hold notices etc...
22:16 Jurgens i did try --doit at the end.. did nothing.
22:16 eythian when you say nothing, what do you mean?
22:17 eythian <Jurgens> when I try to pass the arguement --doit the terminal just spews up stuff saying it doens't understand it
22:17 Jurgens oh wait.. it did work now
22:17 Jurgens yay!...
22:17 eythian because that isn't nothing
22:17 eythian :)
22:17 eythian excellent
22:17 Jurgens hi 5.
22:18 eythian so as for the overdues, does it create them and not send them, or not create them at all?
22:18 eythian you can tell my looking in the message_queue table
22:18 eythian *by
22:24 Jurgens ok.. so just checked the table - and confirmed in koha under the specific patron notices section that there are hold available for pick up notices.
22:24 Jurgens but no overdues.
22:24 Jurgens the status is pending
22:25 melia the status of the hold available is pending? or you see overdue notices with status pending?
22:25 Jurgens The status of the hold avialable message is pending.. there aren't any overdue notices that were generated,pending or sent at all. only hold messages.
22:25 melia have you set the triggers for overdue notices in Tools?
22:26 eythian pending means that it hasn't been sent yet. Sending happens whenever the process_messages cron job runs.
22:26 melia also, do you have the cron jobs set up correctly?
22:26 eythian typically every 15 minutes or so
22:26 melia you need the advance notice one, the overdue notice one, and process_message_queue all turned on for this to work
22:26 eythian in a package setup, these are all pre-configured for you.
22:27 Jurgens yes... packages setup
22:27 eythian but you will have to configure your triggers in Tools, as melia says.
22:28 melia (for the overdue notices, that is)
22:29 Jurgens yes triggers...3 days past due
22:29 rambutan joined #koha
22:29 Jurgens i set the specific library for 3 days... and the default as 3 days... does this confilct?
22:30 melia maybe something in here will help you:[…]shooting-notices/
22:31 melia that's about all of the ideas I have, anyway :)
22:32 Jurgens if i manually run the script.. if i say like sudo koha-foreach --enabbled --email /usr/share/koha/bin/cronjobs/  i get the following output
22:33 Jurgens use of uninitialized value in pattern matc (m//) at /usr/share/koha/bin/cronjobs/ line 670
22:33 Jurgens this is printed several times
22:33 melia did anyone already ask what version of Koha you are running? I remember some bugs a while back with overdue notices (like 8607)
22:34 Jurgens 3.8.6
22:34 melia well I don't think that bug's your problem then
22:37 eythian I'm not sure, it tends to work for me :)
22:37 Jurgens i think i found the problem.. it in the message body i have <item>"<<biblio.title>>.......but no closing </item>
22:37 eythian I think I have seen that error before, hasn't caused problems that I know of.
22:37 Jurgens because in line 670 of the script this is what it points to.
22:37 eythian hmm, OK. That shouldn't prevent the sending though.
22:37 melia I have seen that error, too, with no problems
22:37 eythian just make them look funny
22:38 melia are you seeing no overdue notice for a particular patron? or for all patrons?
22:38 melia if particular patron, does he/she have a valid email address?
22:38 melia because if not, he would go into the print overdue that gets sent to the library, so you wouldn't see any email on his notices tab
22:39 Jurgens no patrons, a few don't have email addressess. but most have valid ones. now i corrected the overdue notice i see errors in line 659 and 670...
22:40 melia is the code of the notice unique?  (i.e., you don't have more than one notice with code ODUE, do you?)
22:41 Jurgens nope... should the fines be run before the overdue script? manually i mean.. because I am not including fine values in the notice... but line 659 in the overdue script is about processing fines.
22:41 melia don't think fines will have any effect on whether or not notices are sent out
22:43 eythian yeah, afaik it doesn't
22:44 melia oh wait a minute - are you just running manually and then checking the patron's notices tab to see if there's a notice there? if so, you won't see it until you run process_message_queue, I think
22:44 melia just puts the message in the queue. it doesn't get emailed anywhere until runs.
22:45 eythian if you're seeing messages marked as "pending", you're looking in the right place.
22:45 Jurgens but what about the error messages i get when manually running the overdue script?
22:45 eythian so the cron file runs:
22:45 eythian koha-foreach --enabled --email /usr/share/koha/bin/cronjobs/ -t
22:45 eythian koha-foreach --enabled /usr/share/koha/bin/cronjobs/
22:45 eythian do you have '-t'? (not sure off the top of my head what it does)
22:46 melia it means the notice goes out only when the item hits the trigger
22:46 Jurgens no.. i accidentally forgot to add it.. when adding it error messages...
22:46 Jurgens that makes sense..thank you..
22:46 Jurgens next step..process the queue.. brb
22:49 Jurgens ok seems that this is all working fantastically now.
22:50 Jurgens i see sent messages.. and it appears to be sent to mailq succesfully
22:50 melia great!
22:50 eythian sweet :)
22:51 Jurgens now i will check to make sure that all the right members received emails and didn't miss any.. thank you so much for your help.
22:51 Jurgens it seems obvious now.. but when I tried it with the manuals .. i was just missing something. thank you very much
22:52 eythian no worries :)
22:55 Jurgens another quick question.. I was working offline.. I can delete the messages before its sent using postfix no problem.. is there away to flush the messages sent to members?
22:55 Jurgens so it doens't show in the notices section of each patron.
22:57 melia I don't know of any way to clean out the notices tab, sorry
22:57 Jurgens I guess I can trucate the messages table in mysql...
23:01 eythian Jurgens: yeah, truncate the table is what I'd do
23:01 eythian I'm not sure if there's a script that'll do that, but it's possible
23:01 eythian wait, there is
23:01 eythian koha-foreach --enabled --noemail /usr/share/koha/bin/cronjobs/ --mail
23:01 eythian it does that if you don't have mail enabled so the table doesn't get fuller and fuller
23:05 Jurgens oh yeah thats right.. thank you again.
23:05 Jurgens ok.. seems that I am set now. Cheers.
23:05 eythian cool
23:06 eythian Jurgens: where are you based?
23:06 Jurgens New Zealand.
23:06 Jurgens And you?
23:06 eythian Wellington, hence asking :)
23:06 Jurgens Auckland to be specific.
23:07 eythian cool, is this a new Auckland Koha library?
23:08 Jurgens Yeah I'm in the process of setting up a library for my Mom's Guild - they've got quite a few thousand books and magazines and they were on the old card system. But it was getting to the point were it was a nightmare to manage and sort and keep track off. So i suggested this.
23:09 Jurgens My problem is that I am a Chemical Materials Engineer - not software! So I had a steep learning curve - it seems to have gone well though. Things work now, and I just had the automated messages to learn.
23:09 eythian[…]a_Users_Worldwide <-- don't forget to add the details to this
23:09 Jurgens No doubt I will have a lot of learning still ahead, but I am catching up.
23:10 Jurgens Yes. Thanks for that.
23:10 eythian yeah, it's a fairly complex application, but once it's up and running, it tends to just keep going
23:10 Jurgens My biggest hurdle will be to train the next head librarian!
23:11 eythian haha :)
23:13 Jurgens Its the Auckland Patchworkers & Quilters Guild library - so mostly people focused on the artistic side! But I've noticed now that I've shown its possible they are keen to look at a lot more things like setting up blogs etc. So lots of excitement.
23:15 eythian awesome, a nice pretty public OPAC gets people quite keen on that sort of thing too
23:16 Jurgens yes, the next part of the implimentation - but probably a target of next year - is to get the OPAC hosted possibly using their website IT guys.
23:16 Jurgens I know it can be done by myself - as long as I have a domain for it - but something to look at over the summer.
23:18 Jurgens At the moment we are just using it on a closed network - the reason being they meet monthly so they don't have a permanent library. But once we have the OPAC available I'm guessing that at least people can have access to their accounts from home and search for items etc.
23:28 mtj Jurgens, congrats on your Koha :)
23:44 libsysguy joined #koha
23:44 libsysguy wow this sounds familiar[…]o-cyanogenmod-org
23:58 Jurgens joined #koha

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