IRC log for #koha, 2012-10-26

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:02 melia left #koha
00:11 tcohen joined #koha
00:12 papa joined #koha
01:11 jcamins_away cait1: why are you still awake?
01:11 * cait1 hides
01:19 rangi
01:19 rangi @quote get 221
01:19 huginn rangi: Quote #221: "I used to be sane like you, until I took a MARC data to the knee" (added by chrisc at 09:28 PM, October 23, 2012)
01:20 cjh hahaha
01:20 jcamins lol
01:20 cait joined #koha
01:22 jcamins Another cait?!?
01:22 cait more fun!
01:45 cait left #koha
01:47 tcohen joined #koha
01:57 tcohen joined #koha
04:17 brylie joined #koha
04:27 WaylonR joined #koha
04:28 WaylonR hiya all. SearchMyLibraryFirst ... what is it supposed to do in opac, with no userenv.. i.e no user logged in?
04:53 mtj probably nothing
04:54 mtj … theres no way for koha to know what your $library is
04:54 mtj in that state, currently
05:47 papa joined #koha
05:49 francharb joined #koha
05:51 francharb morning
05:57 mtj heya francharb
05:57 wahanui francharb falls asleep easily at sea.  Don't believe me?  Just ask Brooke.
05:59 francharb 0/ mtj
05:59 mtj .. after eating a few of those little hambuger things, and all that walking -  i was feeling pretty sleepy too
05:59 francharb :)
06:09 laurence joined #koha
06:17 mtj hmm, i've got some weird OPAC behaviour with searching for 'available' items, on a koha 3.8.5, using DOM
06:18 mtj i get an ERROR from zebrasrv too, doing that search
06:18 mtj "19:17:28-26/10 zebrasrv(4) [request] Search biblios ERROR 114 1 1+0 RPN @attrset Bib-1 @and @attr 1=1016 @attr 4=6 @attr 5=1 quest @and @not @attr 1=_ALLRECORDS @attr 2=103 '' @attr 1=8024 @attr 2=103 '' @attr 1=8002 @attr 4=109 @attr 2=3 0"
06:19 mtj the same 'availability' search seems to work OK using the old GRS1 stuff
06:19 mtj … anyone else spotted this/knows how it fix it, etc?
06:23 mtj ive just done a fresh make/make install, so the latest zebra/dom files are def. current
06:24 mtj .
06:25 mtj or phrased another way… does anyone have a DOM koha, with 'limit to available items' searches working?
06:36 alex_a_ bonjour
06:45 julian_m joined #koha
06:46 julian_m hello
06:53 asaurat joined #koha
06:57 lds joined #koha
07:03 hdl joined #koha
07:05 * magnuse waves
07:12 clrh_ hello
07:12 wahanui bonjour, clrh_
07:12 magnuse @wunder boo
07:12 huginn magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 4.0°C (8:50 AM CEST on October 26, 2012). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 87%. Dew Point: 2.0°C. Windchill: -1.0°C. Pressure: 29.09 in 985 hPa (Steady).
07:21 sophie_m joined #koha
07:23 reiveune joined #koha
07:23 reiveune hello
07:23 wahanui hola, reiveune
07:24 sophie_m hi #koha
07:24 matts hi !
07:28 francharb joined #koha
07:42 paul_p joined #koha
07:45 cait joined #koha
07:45 cait hi #koha
07:49 magnuse kia ora cait
07:49 cait hi magnuse :)
08:18 drojf good morning #koha
08:19 cait good morning drojf
08:23 drojf hi cait
08:25 cait drojf++ mveron++ and all other translators I might have missed
08:54 mveron joined #koha
08:54 mveron Hi #koha
08:54 cait hi mveron!
08:54 cait just discovered how far the gemran translation already is
08:54 cait that is awesome
08:55 mveron Thanks :-)  I hope I did not to much mistakes :-)
09:07 magnuse mistakes can be improved later :-)
09:08 * magnuse hopes fredericd can figure out the problem with the nb-NO prefs file
09:20 Oak joined #koha
09:20 * Oak waves
09:21 Oak magnuse
09:21 Oak Guten tag cait
09:22 Oak kittens will be fine. yes.
09:23 gerundio hi everyone, good morning
09:24 magnuse Oak - gah, not quick enough... :-)
09:24 cait hi Oak :)
09:24 gerundio during a meeting with our faculty librabry coordinator I was told that a Koha community event is going to take place in Portugal, in the capital Lisbon I guess, sometime this year
09:24 gerundio does anyone has any info on that?
09:24 * magnuse has not heard about it
09:25 cait me neither - maybe there is somethong on the spanish speaking mailing list?
09:25 gerundio I found this reference online:
09:26 cait ah, there you go :)
09:26 magnuse cool
09:37 gerundio I see is just a Portguese community event
09:38 gerundio I was hoping it was a more general one :)
09:38 gerundio well, you won't have the chance to visit sunny Portugal this time
09:38 drojf which reminds me
09:39 drojf someone at kohacon wanted to da a european koha thing, maybe in portugal
09:40 magnuse a EuroKohaCon?
09:42 cait hm
09:42 cait we shoul dhave one in Germany... it's nice and central... ;)
09:43 magnuse yay
09:43 magnuse was that cait volunteering to organize i heard?
09:44 drojf i am in germany all the time. and southern germany is not central at all :P i vote for northern norway or portugal. or croatia ;)
09:44 cait not sure...
09:45 cait see that dagger i nmy back...
09:45 drojf :P
09:45 gerundio Portugal is nice and an entry point in Europe
09:45 cait I hink we have too many countries in europe... we can argue about this forever :)
09:45 * gerundio was born in Germany too actually :D
09:46 cait we should do it in nz again
09:47 drojf yeah, eurokohacon in nz  \o/
09:47 cait heh
09:47 magnuse lol
09:47 gerundio cait, I think you want some far away vacation :p
09:47 cait it's lovely there, you would like it
09:47 gerundio I'm sure I would
09:47 magnuse well, no reason to argue - whoever volunteers to host it first is the winner!
09:47 magnuse nz++
09:48 gerundio I'm trying to plan my next long course vacation trip
09:48 gerundio I was thinking to go to Germany as a matter of fact
09:48 gerundio it's been almost 30 years since I've left and never got back
09:48 drojf it's overrated ;)
09:48 cait ignore drojf
09:49 cait gerundio: du sprichst deutsch? :)
09:49 gerundio I still have family in Köln
09:49 gerundio no cait :(
09:49 gerundio I left at a very young age
09:49 drojf did you grow up here?
09:49 gerundio and my parents always talked Portuguese around the house
09:50 gerundio so I never picked up any German at all
09:50 cait ah
09:50 gerundio drojf, I grew up in Portugal
09:50 cait we can teach you :P
09:51 cait but... sticking with english is probably a lot easier
09:52 WaylonR hmm.. kohacon 2013... whats the chances of getting livestream/ feeds set up for the talks?
09:53 cait I don't know - gues sit depends on the costs and the host
09:53 drojf WaylonR: ask the hosts?
09:53 gerundio my parents still speak a little German from time to time
09:53 drojf would be nice of course
09:53 magnuse WaylonR: depends on the bandwidth of the venue too, i think
09:54 WaylonR would be fantastic.
09:54 WaylonR Since im not able to go for money reasons.
09:55 cait :(
09:55 drojf i wish we could have a stream. it would be so important for all koha users in the european world
09:55 * drojf hides
09:55 cait lol
09:57 WaylonR And as my org only uses a porton of Koha, may not see the relevance of me going to Con. Also, it would be classed as income, the travel and accom... and nz social security would count it as such, then adjust my benefit for the year accordingly, penalising me for it.
09:57 * WaylonR idly wonders how much such a trip could cost...
09:58 cait this sounds really complicated
09:59 WaylonR yea, which is the reason most beneficaries don't earn money. Too difficult to manage.
10:01 WaylonR omg! Reno, Nevada, is a huge place for couch surfing.
10:01 drojf anyway, we could try to revive that european thing. i remember paul_p and rafael from portugal came to me to talk about it. maybe have a european section on the website and try to have more "local" events, things like that. as long as it is not about fragmenting the community (like having a european google group…) i think that would not be a bad idea
10:01 WaylonR Couchsurfing = Free accomodation in exchange for.. well.. being yourself.
10:07 gerundio drojf, community fragmentation is always a risk in those cases, but if I remember it correctly, Drupal pulled it off
10:08 gerundio from what I can tell their community as events worldwide as is working as one
10:08 gerundio here are their guidelines
10:10 * WaylonR nods. "Would love a Koha hackcon in Wellington someday/week.
10:10 WaylonR Group motivated koha hacking, yeah!
10:10 cait it's the best koha hacking :)
10:11 WaylonR Right now, alone, its hard to get motivated. I got so many tasks to port to current, and so little motivation.
10:11 drojf we have a regular hackfest in france (organized by biblibre) but apart from that there is not much inner-european stuff going on as far as i can tell. and the hackfest is nothing a "normal" librarian would visit i suppose. there are local workshops of course.
10:11 cait hm they had librarians testing last time
10:11 cait quite  a lot of them actually
10:11 drojf ah ok
10:11 cait and translating
10:11 wahanui it has been said that translating is ok of course :)
10:11 drojf cool
10:11 drojf i didnt know that
10:12 WaylonR hackfest?
10:12 wahanui hackfest is probably slowly seing hackers leaving...
10:12 WaylonR huh?
10:12 WaylonR wahanui, forget hackfest
10:12 wahanui WaylonR: I forgot hackfest
10:12 drojf still its very nerdy, not something like the "main" kohacon
10:12 cait but I guess more the system librarians, having knowledge how to test
10:13 cait and I think biblibre helped setting up the servers with patches for them to test
10:13 WaylonR hackfest is awesome! Group motivated koha hacking is the best koha hacking :)
10:13 WaylonR hackfest?
10:13 wahanui rumour has it hackfest is awesome! Group motivated koha hacking is the best koha hacking :)
10:13 WaylonR thanks cait
10:13 drojf which reminds me i should write something up about our workshop
10:13 cait oh yep
10:18 gerundio off-topic: is Koha's UI built around any usability guidelines?
10:19 drojf i like when people feel they have to label their koha-questions "off-topic" in #koha :P
10:20 gerundio :)
10:20 cait gerundio: there are some design patterns
10:20 cait and oleonard described them on the wiki
10:20 cait but I think that is not exactly what you were asking about?
10:22 gerundio not really cait, I meant usability for the amblyopic (I hope Google Translator got this one right :p) and color blind for instance
10:23 cait ther is a bug to improve accessibility with some ongoig work
10:24 cait bug 8712
10:24 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8712 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , We should use WAI-ARIA guidelines to help with accessibility -OMNIBUS bug
10:25 gerundio nice :)
10:26 gerundio just yesterday, during that meeting with our library coordinator, I was introduced to this new color codes for colorblind people
10:27 gerundio from what I can tell it looks like it's going to be big
10:27 gerundio
10:28 gerundio this new color identification system is already being ported to cloth info tags
10:28 gerundio our subway system for line identification
10:29 drojf but is that "the standard" or "one standard"? what is w3c saying about it?
10:30 gerundio don't really know
10:30 gerundio take a look at the overall chart[…]or-coding-system/
10:30 gerundio don't really know if this as that much publicity close to web developers' communities
10:31 * magnuse had not seen[…]nterface_patterns before
10:32 gerundio and I don't think it caught w3's eye yet
10:41 gerundio ok, now the fun part of the meeting
10:41 cait hm?
10:41 gerundio I have some questions to check if I can manage to do some things in Koha
10:43 drojf ask?
10:43 wahanui Don't ask to ask, just ask.
10:57 drojf i suppose he meant to ask his people and not us then?
11:02 magnuse probably
11:04 magnuse @later tell jcamins bug 8805 needs a new patch when your new patch on bug 8665 gets pushed, right?
11:04 huginn magnuse: The operation succeeded.
11:18 jwagner joined #koha
11:19 drojf1 joined #koha
11:28 paul_p joined #koha
11:47 nengard joined #koha
11:53 nengard joined #koha
11:54 NateC joined #koha
12:08 jcamins_away bug 8805
12:08 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8805 major, P5 - low, ---, magnus, Needs Signoff , Add a biblio-zebra-indexdefs.xsl for NORMARC
12:08 jcamins_away bug 8665
12:08 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8665 critical, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, Needs Signoff , DOM indexing fails to index some bib records
12:09 jcamins_away magnuse: yes.
12:10 magnuse jcamins_away: ok, i'll obsolete my patch
12:10 * jcamins_away should sign off on 8805 once that happens.
12:11 jcamins mtj: "Limit to available" doesn't work.
12:11 jcamins Period.
12:11 jcamins Not in GRS-1 or DOM.
12:12 magnuse jcamins: a signoff would be great :-)
12:12 cait jcamins: maybe we should hide it :(
12:13 magnuse sounds like it
12:13 cait jcamins: what's the big problem? shouldn't it just limit onloan being something?
12:13 cait or not being?
12:14 jcamins cait: I think we should, yes.
12:14 jcamins cait: that would make sense, but that's not what it does.
12:15 cait :(
12:15 magnuse fix it or remove it (temporarily), i'd say
12:15 cait do I want to ask? probably not
12:15 cait I am more for fixing it... but not sure how hard itis
12:15 cait it's a popular feature in opacs
12:15 jcamins cait: very.
12:15 cait but can't leave it like it is
12:15 magnuse jcamins: very popular or very hard to fix?
12:16 jcamins magnuse: very hard.
12:16 magnuse :-(
12:17 cait :(
12:17 jcamins It is impossible to make it work with GRS-1, and making it work with DOM will be impractical at least until I've finished the funded parts of the search rewrite.
12:17 cait hm
12:17 jcamins At that point, it will merely be very difficult.
12:17 cait so what should it do?
12:17 magnuse sounds liek we should comment it out in the template until someone gets around to fixing it then
12:18 cait limit the search to records, that have at least one entry with onloan being empty?
12:18 cait ok, you would kick out electronic and serials this way, but it would do somewhat would you expcet
12:18 jcamins cait: we can't do that.
12:18 cait and what if we said something like... onloan not starting with 2?
12:19 cait something stupid?
12:19 jcamins The best we can do with GRS-1 is limit to records that do not have any checked out items.
12:19 cait becuse it has a date... so when there is one onloan field in the record that is not having a date... it would bring it up
12:19 cait jcamins: oh?
12:19 cait I was thinking about the itemtype limits
12:19 cait where is the big difference here?
12:20 jcamins cait: item types have data.
12:20 cait yeah
12:20 cait that's why I mant: not have a date
12:20 jcamins I think changing everything to understand onloan being set to a true value that isn't a date would be just as problematic as fixing the indexes.
12:21 WaylonR wow.. i would of thougth  that bug was a huge bug... as in critical.
12:21 libsysguy joined #koha
12:21 cait WaylonR: I think we agree with you...
12:22 WaylonR how has libraries, such as HLT, coped without it?
12:22 jcamins Libraries that only have a single copy of a given book aren't affected.
12:22 cait WaylonR: I think most libraires don't notice
12:22 cait you wouldn't think that
12:22 cait I agre
12:22 cait but they don't
12:22 cait I never got any bug report about it
12:23 WaylonR sounds like the librarians never tried the flag.
12:23 WaylonR and patrons didn't really mind the problem enough to complain.
12:24 tcohen joined #koha
12:24 jcamins Exactly.
12:24 WaylonR or never had the will to complain.. "oh.. huh.. doesn't work. Okay.. hrm."
12:25 WaylonR Or didn't know who to complain to.
12:25 WaylonR But sooner or later, someone will notice, someone will complain, and we'll have to have a fix.
12:25 tcohen morning #koha!
12:26 tcohen its friday!
12:26 jcamins Yes, I would love to have it fixed.
12:26 jcamins I was hopeful it would be fixed as part of the DOM indexing project.
12:26 WaylonR DOM supports all the features of GRS-1?
12:27 jcamins And a lot more.
12:29 WaylonR how difficult is it to convert all the GRS-1 configs, to DOM?
12:29 cait that's been done I think
12:29 cait the problem is we don't want to convert them the way they are... I guess
12:29 cait bcause that means not making use of the dom features we want?
12:30 jcamins WaylonR: we already did that. It wasn't that hard.
12:31 magnuse jcamins: is that conversion just a starting point, or will we continue to generate the dom configs from the grs-1 config?
12:31 jcamins magnuse: just a starting point.
12:31 jcamins The GRS-1 to DOM script should *never* be run again.
12:31 * WaylonR has a GRS-1 custom config that i need to convert.
12:32 jcamins Unless someone has a custom record.abs they want to keep.
12:32 jcamins Which, granted, is probably going to be pretty common.
12:32 cait ah
12:32 WaylonR custom record.abs, modified bib1.att, and
12:32 cait so I think I misunderstood what you wrote to the list earlier
12:33 WaylonR so yea.. an automated conversion process would be much appreciated.
12:34 jcamins WaylonR: you can keep your bib1.att and files.
12:34 WaylonR ah? dom only replaces record.abs?
12:34 jcamins Right.
12:34 jcamins It replaces indexing configuration.
12:35 magnuse jcamins: "The GRS-1 to DOM script should *never* be run again" --> that is once we start editing and improving the dom config?
12:36 WaylonR how do i get this GRS-1 to DOM script?
12:36 jcamins magnuse: right.
12:36 magnuse jcamins: thanks
12:36 jcamins Once the configuration has been created and signed off, DOM configs will necessarily start diverging.
12:36 jcamins WaylonR: misc/maintenance/grs1-to-dom or something like that.
12:37 magnuse WaylonR:[…]ecord_abs;hb=HEAD
12:37 jcamins That's the one.
12:38 magnuse this is also involved:[…]zebra.xsl;hb=HEAD
12:38 jcamins Right.
12:38 jcamins koha-indexdefs-to-zebra.xsl is still used.
12:39 reiveune1 joined #koha
12:39 magnuse i followed the two steps at the very bottom here to generate the dom config :[…]g_to_dom_indexing
12:43 alex_a joined #koha
12:45 oleonard joined #koha
12:46 oleonard Hi #koha
12:46 sophie_m joined #koha
12:47 WaylonR Oh yeah! my secure search mod works well.
12:48 jcamins WaylonR: what does it do?
12:48 WaylonR so, from one koha install, one koha db, one apache server, multiple virtuhosts can equal multiple libraries, and those libraries, unless the user is logged in, will only be able to access their own records.
12:48 jcamins Oh.
12:48 jcamins Right.
12:48 jcamins You told me about this.
12:48 WaylonR yup
12:49 cait hey oleonard :)
12:49 cait it's good to see you
12:49 cait and your many patches!
12:49 cait oleonard++
12:49 jcamins Now you can submit a patch. :)
12:49 magnuse @arewethereyet
12:49 huginn magnuse: Not yet - wait 27 days
12:49 magnuse ooh...
12:50 gmcharlt good morning
12:50 cait hi gmcharlt :)
12:50 WaylonR then, once the user is logged in, if they have been given access to other libraries, in secure mode, they are able to search their branch + assigned others, assigned by branchcode extended attributes.
12:50 cait we were discussing dom and indexing questions earlier
12:51 cait WaylonR: sounds good :) whatabout records with items from mulitple libraries?
12:51 jcamins My electrical bill is almost reasonable this month.
12:51 jcamins Well- reasonable for this apartment.
12:51 jcamins Which is not reasonable at all.
12:51 WaylonR And, if multiple library searching mode is on, they get the abilty to select via checkboxes on a dropdown, which libraries to do a search on, in advanced search.
12:52 WaylonR yes, cait.. it searches based on branch:
12:52 WaylonR so.. that means home branch of an item?
12:52 talljoy joined #koha
12:52 cait do you see the items of other branches on the records? we were discussing ways to limit to the library only at work
12:53 alex_a_ joined #koha
12:53 cait oh, and records without any items (serials)
12:53 WaylonR records without any items.. ah.. don't show up.. yeah, didn't think about that.
12:54 WaylonR not sure how to handle that.
12:54 julian_m joined #koha
12:54 WaylonR all our pdfs get given branches to belong to.
12:54 * jcamins heads into the city.
12:55 WaylonR and items get automatically created accordingly.
12:55 reiveune joined #koha
12:55 WaylonR hmm.. heres an explaination of our library..
12:55 WaylonR waylon?
12:55 wahanui waylon is, like, the 33rd developer of Koha, currently working for, a digital library archive. Hes currently porting koha 3.0 modifications to Koha 3.10
12:56 WaylonR so... journals have volumes, then issues, then articles.
12:56 WaylonR so.... we have a journal table, that says what branches a journal belongs to.
12:57 WaylonR each time we enter a article in, it gets the journal inputted.
12:57 WaylonR and system creates an item or items in the branches accordingly.
12:57 WaylonR make sense, cait?
12:58 paul_p joined #koha
12:58 cait hm
12:58 cait trying :) but I guess it does :)
12:59 alex_a__ joined #koha
13:05 sophie_m joined #koha
13:09 edveal joined #koha
13:10 WaylonR cait, so, in your case... hmm.. yeah, in searches, you'd be restricted to items in your specific branch or branches allocated. But you'd see that they are in other branches you don't have access to.
13:10 WaylonR since thats an output of XSLT right?
13:10 WaylonR locations available.
13:10 cait hm not strictly only the xslt
13:10 cait xslt in results
13:11 WaylonR right.
13:11 cait items table from the database in details
13:11 gerundio joined #koha
13:11 julian_m joined #koha
13:11 WaylonR yes.... but yea.. can't see how to stop users from seeing that other branches exist.
13:11 WaylonR other than not show them locations available.
13:19 gerundio joined #koha
13:20 gerundio ... and back
13:20 gerundio all universities in Portugal just suffered a internet outage :|
13:22 gerundio cait, drojf, wahanui still around?
13:22 cait yes
13:22 gerundio lets see if I can post my questions now :)
13:22 gerundio earlier I was saying that
13:23 gerundio we have an in-house academic managment system with all our to-be patron details
13:24 gerundio is it possible to extend the patron's profile with a new attribute who's value would be a contatenation of a fixed URL + an id mapped from LDAP?
13:24 cait i am not sure I understand what you want/need to do
13:25 cait you can define your own patron attributes in koha but I think there is a patch waiting for sign off to make this work with ldap
13:25 cait you could also always reuse one of the existing fields I think
13:25 gerundio yes, I'll be testing that later on
13:26 gerundio the doubt here is if the field can be a sum of a fixed part + a value from LDAP
13:27 gerundio lets assume the fixed URL part is http://koha:8080/cgi-bin/koha/[…]l?borrowernumber=
13:27 gerundio and the borrowernumber would come from a field in LDAP
13:28 cait what do you want to use that for?
13:28 gerundio I know this is far fetched
13:28 gerundio but I got asked about this
13:28 cait I mean if the part is fix for all borrowers... do you really need to have it there?
13:28 cait couldn't the system using the value just add it?
13:28 cait in display?
13:29 gerundio the borrower URL was just ment as an example
13:29 cait yep I know
13:29 cait but if the fixed part is fixed...
13:29 gerundio library staff want a direct link from the koha patron details screen to our own academic record where there are additional details
13:30 cait ah
13:30 cait you could use jquery to do that
13:30 cait you will have to use jquery, to add the anchor tag anyway
13:30 gerundio ok, so the straight answer is "no possible" :D
13:30 gerundio not ^
13:30 cait well everything is possible - it's open source :)
13:30 cait and free software
13:30 gerundio I know
13:30 cait heh
13:31 cait I think easiest way to do is safe it into the database
13:31 cait and do some jquery magic to make the informatoin appear as a link and add the fixed part there
13:31 cait because only a link in the field will still require copy and paste
13:31 cait hm or
13:31 cait you could enhance the patron attributes to have a new option for an ulr
13:31 cait url
13:31 cait that should not be so hard
13:32 cait hm hope that makes sense
13:32 gerundio but our premise around here is "use what's provided on the official package so we can reduce maintenance costs over time"
13:32 cait yep
13:32 cait i was thinking giving that back as a new feature :)
13:32 cait because it would be nice
13:33 cait so change once ... and get it in standard koha before your next update
13:34 cait and jquery would also be a way to do it safe
13:35 gerundio that's our premise too, like the LDAP patch :)
13:35 gerundio but this feature is low priority, so I wouldn't get the expectations too high
13:36 cait yeah I understand
13:36 cait as I said, adding some local jquery should work I think to give you a link
13:36 cait I have to do some reading now - will be bck later :)
13:36 gerundio 2nd question: is it possible to assign two different categories for a single patron?
13:36 cait no
13:36 cait the category dictates the issuing rules
13:37 cait if you need more, maybe using the bsort statistics fields and/or patron attribures will help
13:37 WaylonR okay... hmm... am i missing something here....
13:37 gerundio we have this rule for books which are bought from our research projects
13:38 paul_p_ joined #koha
13:38 WaylonR two different borrower categories?
13:38 WaylonR or two different branches?
13:38 cait gerundio: what is the rule?
13:39 WaylonR Yes, thats the best question.
13:39 gerundio sorry, got a visit in office :s
13:39 WaylonR I'll hold.
13:40 gerundio so just picture this, lets say I'm a teacher here at the faculty
13:40 reiveune1 joined #koha
13:41 gerundio I'm assign to a teacher patron category which allows me to do 15 checkouts for a loan period of 150 days
13:41 gerundio on another perspective I'm also doing reaserch on some project
13:42 gerundio and bought a few books which are given to the library and are a part of the catalogue
13:43 cait hm if you can't use different itemtypes, you will have to use the specify due date feature and or different patron accounts with different categories i think... something like that
13:43 alex_a joined #koha
13:43 gerundio so, the exception is that if I checkout one of this project books I can have them for unlimited (or a lot longer period) time
13:44 gerundio have you been faced with this problem before?
13:44 cait if the project books are a special part of the collection, you could give them a separate itemtype
13:49 cait oleonard: the preselected new search terms is a really bad idea
13:49 cait I commented on the bug. - I had a library requesting this for a project... no fun.
13:50 oleonard I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks so. I feel like I'm coming off as belligerent in that bug
13:50 cait no you are doing good
13:51 oleonard What do you think about adding "and" to the basic form? Useful? Too much information?
13:51 cait and would it work with the cloning of fields? I have only taken a short look at the codeand your comment
13:51 cait I think it's what people expect, so we don't need to show it
13:52 maximep joined #koha
13:52 cait if you enter more than one term... you want your results to have both
13:52 cait I think?
13:52 oleonard Yeah I wouldn't expect an inexperienced user to think they would get an "OR" search
13:53 paul_p__ joined #koha
13:53 drojf no idea what bug you are talking about but +1 from me. everything else than default "and" is crazy and useless and makes me angry
13:53 oleonard I can see the accessibility argument that the fields need labels though. Not sure how important it is
13:54 cait bug 8712
13:54 oleonard How I might style it:
13:54 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8712 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , We should use WAI-ARIA guidelines to help with accessibility -OMNIBUS bug
13:54 alex_a_ joined #koha
13:54 drojf and i think if i want to be able to change this, i have an advanced search page to do that
13:54 cait drojf: the discussion is about the more and fewer options
13:55 cait oleonard: hm, I think I like it better the way it is
13:55 cait but if we need it, yours doesn't look bad
13:55 cait :)
13:55 reiveune joined #koha
13:56 cait oleonard: btw - I have a bug reported for the bad behaviour of koha here... somewhre in bugzilla
13:56 oleonard I like getting suggestions about accessibility, but I don't like hearing them second-hand. It'd be nice to have a discussion on the list
13:56 cait yeah
14:01 sophie_m joined #koha
14:02 sophie_m joined #koha
14:03 libsysguy joined #koha
14:15 julian_m joined #koha
14:18 oleonard Ha, I Googled for studies on advanced search form usability and found a report from 1999 comparing HotBot, AltaVista, and Lycos!
14:19 BigRig joined #koha
14:25 jcamins oleonard: how to AltaVista and Lycos stack up? :P
14:25 oleonard I don't know, after the screenshots started my eyes started to hurt and I left
14:25 jcamins Hehe.
14:26 jcamins You know, I don't think I ever used the advanced search screen on the OPAC.
14:27 oleonard When I do it's usually to limit by collection code (which in my library means audience+format)
14:27 jcamins Oh, you're right.
14:27 jcamins Occasionally I do it for limiting.
14:27 alex_a joined #koha
14:28 cait same here
14:28 cait and searching for new books using date range
14:29 cait I never use the search options I think, only the limits
14:29 cait and the date range
14:29 wahanui the date range is in the item record and nengard's records don't have items
14:32 jcamins I think I mostly use yr,gt:2000, but possibly I've used that feature, too.
14:32 nengard joined #koha
14:32 sophie_m hello : could someone send me the list of languages to load as authorised value LANG in authroised_values table in english (I've only got it in french). Thank you
14:33 jcamins sophie_m: that's not a default category.
14:33 jcamins You'll have to just translate the French to English, I think.
14:34 cait sophie_m: i think it#s currently only used in UNIMARC for cataloguing
14:35 sophie_m cait: it is also use to limit search on languages, don't you use it in marc21 ?
14:35 wahanui okay, sophie_m.
14:35 jcamins sophie_m: that's not from authorized values.
14:35 jcamins That's from the language stuff.
14:36 cait the advanced search builds on the language tables
14:36 cait the descriptions and pull down there
14:36 cait and in cataloguing catalogers enter the codes and use the plugin for the controlfield
14:36 cait jcamins: that right?
14:37 jcamins You can look in installer/data/mysql/en/mandatory/subtag_registry.sql
14:37 jcamins That's correct, yes.
14:37 cait ok, i am off to the super market - bbiab
14:38 sophie_m thank you cait and jcamins
14:38 jcamins For fennel? :)
14:38 cait jcamins: hm I have fennel, maybe a mango
14:38 cait bread most of all
14:38 jcamins Yay!
14:38 cait :)
14:53 edveal left #koha
15:06 phasefx hey guys, for the OPACNoResultsFound system preference, are there any macros/variables available there where we could say, propogate search terms to other catalogs/engines via the HTML placed there?
15:06 jcamins phasefx: no.
15:06 lavamind joined #koha
15:06 jcamins There was a patch do add that, but it didn't work consistently.
15:07 jcamins Bug...
15:07 phasefx jcamins: thanks.  I tried suggesting something to someone involving javascript and parsing the location object, but it was a bit much
15:07 jcamins Bug 7620
15:07 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7620 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha, Needs Signoff , OPACNoResult, add search string to available parameters
15:07 phasefx jcamins++
15:07 jcamins Oh, there's a new patch.
15:07 jcamins You should test it and sign off if it works.
15:08 * phasefx shall so endeavor
15:08 lavamind Hi, I just upgrade my Debian Koha packages, but having a problem with indexing. now only works as root, running with the -koha user (while no error message appears) doesn't produce any *.mf index files...
15:08 jcamins lavamind: you should not be running directly when using packages.
15:09 jcamins Do a chown -R user-koha:user-koha /var/lib/koha/user/[whatever]
15:09 jcamins Then run sudo koha-rebuild-zebra --full user
15:09 jcamins (substituting your instance name for "user")
15:10 lavamind jcamins: I made sure to set the environment variables in the command, following whats in koha-rebuild-zebra
15:10 jcamins lavamind: ah, that was wise.
15:10 jcamins In that case, probably you just need to change the ownership on the files and rebuild.
15:10 jcamins Why were you running rebuild_zebra directly?
15:11 lavamind jcamins: I've checked ownership, everything is owned by the correct user...
15:12 jcamins lavamind: oh, did you use su -? If you just use su, sometimes the effective UID gets screwed up.
15:12 lavamind jcamins: I resorted to after trying koha-rebuild-zebra unsuccessfully, leading me to figure out that running it as root produced the files
15:13 lavamind no, sudo -u <user> -H command, as in koha-r-z
15:13 jcamins lavamind: hm. Definitely ownership issue then.
15:13 jcamins Okay, sudo -u sets the effective UID correctly.
15:13 jcamins And you just upgraded koha-common?
15:13 lavamind could  other directories or files be involved ?
15:13 jcamins From which version to which version?
15:14 lavamind 3.2.5 to 3.8.6
15:14 jcamins Wow. Big jump.
15:14 jcamins So you moved from a non-package install to a package install.
15:15 lavamind no, the previous install was from packages as well
15:15 jcamins 3.2.5?
15:15 lavamind yes
15:15 jcamins I didn't think Koha was packaged until 3.4.
15:15 jcamins Apparently I was wrong.
15:15 lavamind I can check my dpkg logs, one sec
15:16 jcamins No, I just checked.
15:16 jcamins There _were_ packages for 3.2.
15:16 lavamind /var/log/dpkg.log:2012-10-25 12:08:28 upgrade koha-common 3.2.5-1 3.8.6-1
15:16 * jcamins didn't know that.
15:16 jcamins Did you run koha-upgrade-to-3.4 or whatever the script is?
15:17 lavamind the package upgrade ran them automatically, as far as I can tell
15:17 reiveune bye
15:17 reiveune left #koha
15:17 lavamind after upgrading the packages and updating translations, everything looked pretty fine
15:19 lavamind I must say, aside from this zebra pain, I was surprised how streamlined the upgrade went, Koha has great Debian packagers
15:19 cait :) eythian++
15:19 jcamins Yeah, packages are great.
15:20 lavamind here's a log of as my koha user :
15:20 jcamins It has to be permissions, but I don't know exactly which directory it's likely to be.
15:20 lavamind with -v -v
15:21 gerundio cait, sorry for the long absence
15:21 gerundio hate to leave people hanging
15:21 gerundio even more when I'm the one asking the questions :)
15:21 cait gerundio: it's ok - I was at the super market in the meantime ;)
15:21 gerundio ;)
15:21 jcamins What does `ls -lR /var/log/koha` give you?
15:22 gerundio the project books are regular books for all that matters
15:22 gerundio if a patron, other than the project researchers, want to checkout one of these books
15:23 gerundio they would follow the normal circulation rules
15:23 lavamind jcamins: empty zebra-* logs
15:23 lavamind and root-owned intranet- and opac- logfiles (!)
15:24 cait sorry gerundio, I don't think koha has a feature specific for that workflow
15:24 gerundio I don't think it's possible to use koha to this extent
15:24 gerundio exactly my thoughts
15:24 jcamins lavamind: I'm interested in the ownership of the folders.
15:24 jcamins Wait.
15:24 jcamins I meant `ls -lR /var/lib/koha`
15:24 jcamins Sorry.
15:24 * jcamins was looking in logs for something else.
15:25 gerundio the only workaround I see is to define a specific item type to the books of each project
15:25 gerundio but even so, there's no way to identify the project members
15:25 gerundio as they can be students or teachers
15:26 gerundio I guess they'll just hear a 2nd no :)
15:26 lavamind jcamins:
15:26 cait hm
15:26 cait sorry, I have no idea for a work around
15:26 jcamins lavamind: what's the ownership on /var/lib/koha/prof and /var/lib/koha/prof/biblios?
15:28 lavamind drwxr-xr-x 53 root    root    4,0K 11 oct 11:59 koha  ---- drwxr-xr-x 6 prof-koha prof-koha 4,0K 25 oct 12:09 biblios
15:29 gerundio meanwhile I've started looking for that LDAP related bug you wanted me to sign off
15:29 gerundio bug 8919
15:29 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8919 critical, P1 - high, ---, dpavlin, Needs Signoff , ExtendedPatronAttributes not populated from LDAP
15:30 gerundio since I'm a noob at koha I'll need some guidance :)
15:30 lavamind jcamins: I think I've got it
15:30 jcamins lavamind: oh?
15:30 lds1 joined #koha
15:30 gerundio the ExtendedPatronAttributes refered in the bug are the ones defined in the Patron attribute types admin area, right?
15:30 lavamind jcamins: in /var/lock/koha/prof there's a couple of root-owned files
15:31 alex_a_ joined #koha
15:31 lavamind -rw------- 1 root      root      10 26 oct 10:29 state..LCK
15:31 jcamins lavamind: that might be it.
15:32 jcamins lavamind: Do a `sudo service koha-common stop` followed by a `sudo service koha-common start` and see if that fixes it.
15:32 lavamind jcamins: running koha-rebuild-zebra -v --full prof
15:34 lavamind jcamins: what do you think about adding a line or two about which directories to check for ownership to[…]ch-stuff-up-help/
15:34 jcamins I think that's an excellent idea.
15:35 jcamins I'll just have to figure out who has write access who I can ask to add it.
15:35 lavamind jcamins: sucess! search is back
15:35 jcamins Hooray!
15:36 lavamind jcamins: so yeah, /var/lib/koha/<user> and /var/lock/koha/<user>
15:37 cait jcamins: interesting question with liz moving!
15:37 francharb joined #koha
15:40 lavamind jcamins: I'd be enclined to also remove the "(or root, depending on your setup)" passages 1) you're note supposed to run that stuff as root and 2) if you are, you'd better know what you're doing
15:41 jcamins lavamind: that's a good point.
15:42 sophie_m joined #koha
15:43 asaurat joined #koha
15:44 laurence joined #koha
15:44 alex_a_ left #koha
15:45 lavamind jcamins: perhaps introducing some kind of basic sanity check for ownership in koha-rebuild-zebra could also help
15:45 jcamins lavamind: brilliant!
15:49 lavamind jcamins: do you happen to know who's responsible for koha-common ?
15:49 jcamins lavamind: eythian. I reported a bug on the packaging, and with luck he'll be able to patch koha-rebuild-zebra before I can.
15:50 mib_78v6t5 joined #koha
15:50 mib_78v6t5 hello!!!!!!!!!!!!!
15:50 wahanui hello are u there?
15:51 mib_78v6t5 yeah
15:51 jcamins lol
15:51 jcamins Wonder who taught him that.
15:51 jcamins mib_78v6t5: wahanui is a bot.
15:51 mib_78v6t5 lol
15:51 mib_78v6t5 is my 1st time here
15:52 mib_78v6t5 I'm searching and learning how to use koha
15:52 mib_78v6t5 (:
15:52 jcamins Perhaps I shouldn't have told you... you could have provided a Turing test for him. ;)
15:52 mib_78v6t5 lol
15:52 mib_78v6t5 thanks for that, now is too late
15:52 mib_78v6t5 haha
15:52 jcamins A good place to start is the manual.
15:52 jcamins manual?
15:52 wahanui manual is at
15:52 mib_78v6t5 yes, I've read it
15:52 jcamins The Koha website is, of course,
15:52 jcamins Excellent!
15:53 mib_78v6t5 I really need to, we gonna use it from now on in this library
15:53 jcamins The latest stable version of Koha is 3.8.6.
15:53 mib_78v6t5 and I work here
15:53 huginn New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 8947: [SIGNED-OFF] XSLT fallback logic backwards <[…]b888da5af503b89c5> / Bug 8939 follow-up welcome to Robert Williams 194th contributor <[…]1d85d1470be52f135> / Bug 8939 : Fines being charged during the grace period <
15:55 jcamins Welcome to the Koha community. :)
15:55 mib_78v6t5 Thank you!
15:56 mib_78v6t5 Happy weekend to everyone, see you guys on Monday lol!
15:56 jenkins_koha Starting build #917 for job Koha_master (previous build: SUCCESS)
15:56 cait bye :)
15:58 melia joined #koha
16:08 lavamind jcamins: thanks for the bug report, I think that will make a great enhancement -- on the short-term though, I think updating the documentation page I brought up would still be pretty relevant. problems with zebra seem endemic amoing new/inexperienced koha admins
16:09 jcamins Agreed.
16:09 jcamins The person I'd usually ask to make the change is currently moving... 18 time zones.
16:10 libsysguy joined #koha
16:15 jcamins Alas, the hurristormpocalypse may cause our CSA pick up to be rescheduled.
16:16 cait jcamins: 18!
16:18 jcamins cait: GMT-6 to GMT+12
16:25 gmcharlt joined #koha
16:25 laurence left #koha
16:29 bag tag 010
16:30 jcamins @marc 010
16:30 jcamins huginn: noooo!!!! What has happened to you?
16:30 huginn jcamins: A unique number assigned to a MARC record by the Library of Congress. Valid MARC prefixes for LC control numbers are published in MARC 21 Format for Bibliographic Data. [a,b,z,8]
16:30 huginn jcamins: I suck
16:30 jcamins Oh. Nothing.
16:30 wahanui i guess nothing is a requirement, we have guidelines though
16:32 brylie joined #koha
16:36 bag thanks jared
16:37 jcamins You're welcome. You probably want 010$a.
16:37 huginn joined #koha
16:47 tcohen anyone, a jquery plugin for making ul collapsable? oleonard?
16:47 jcamins tcohen: the tree view one might do it.
16:47 jcamins Don't remember what it's called...
16:47 oleonard we don't use anything standard at the moment tcohen, but jqueryUI has the accordion plugin which might also work
16:48 jcamins jstree.
16:48 jcamins jstree is standard!
16:48 tcohen
16:48 tcohen ok!
16:48 jcamins I'm the only one using it.
16:48 jcamins :P
16:48 oleonard Where jcamins?
16:48 wahanui somebody said jcamins was too young to be the President of the United States.  Which is a pity, because he had the votes at the 3.12 election.
16:48 jcamins Ergo, 100% of our tree usage is jstree.
16:48 jcamins :)
16:48 jcamins oleonard: authority hierarchies.
16:48 oleonard Oh right, I remember now
16:51 libsysguy1 joined #koha
16:58 tcohen thanks jcamins,oleonard
17:04 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #917: SUCCESS in 1 hr 7 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]/Koha_master/917/
17:04 jenkins_koha * mathieu.saby: Bug 8958: Make facets more UNIMARC compliant (revision 1)
17:04 jenkins_koha * williams: Bug 8939 : Fines being charged during the grace period
17:04 jenkins_koha * Paul Poulain: Bug 8939 follow-up welcome to Robert Williams 194th contributor
17:04 jenkins_koha * jcamins: Bug 8947: [SIGNED-OFF] XSLT fallback logic backwards
17:04 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8958 normal, P5 - low, ---, mathieu.saby, Pushed to Master , Facets are not fully UNIMARC compliant
17:04 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8939 major, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Pushed to Master , Fines Charged During Grace Period
17:04 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8947 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Master , Search does not work with CCSR theme and language = nb-NO
17:16 libsysguy joined #koha
17:21 libsysguy1 joined #koha
17:45 cait hmm
17:46 cait[…]nformation-system
17:47 jcamins Looks like they need to think about Koha. :)
17:48 cait hm thy don't say how big they are
18:02 edveal joined #koha
18:03 drojf can i put several things in one cookie value? something like 'piwik=yes+socialnetworks=no+amazon=no+google=yes' or is that bad for some reason? i would prefer not to use one cookie per possible privacy setting
18:04 gaetan_B joined #koha
18:04 jcamins drojf: sure. You just have to URLencode it, I think.
18:05 drojf cool
18:05 drojf i have baked cookies before, but setting them…
18:05 cait heh
18:06 drojf hm. i think i have to bake cookies. thanks, brain
18:07 cait cookies yay!
18:07 * cait tell your brain her address for the package
18:07 drojf he
18:08 drojf reminds me that i forgot to send in my broken headphones :(
18:08 drojf thanks again, brain
18:08 oleonard SJL's 2010 annual report says their circ was 177,077. Not very big.
18:09 cait ah nope
18:10 cait that's not exactly good publicity for wms
18:12 oleonard Why would they switch back to something that they know they have to switch away from again?
18:13 jcamins oleonard: anything is better than WMS?
18:13 cait oleonard: perhaps because the contract was still there?
18:14 oleonard Now I'm curious about how bad WMS is.
18:14 cait I mean they could go back to it maybe for less cost and no trainingfor staff
18:14 cait of course... everything is only a guess
18:14 jcamins drojf: around?
18:15 drojf jcamins: a minute maybe :9 why?
18:15 jcamins drojf: wondering about RAM usage for Plack without Starman.
18:17 jcamins What's the virtual memory size of Koha under Plack?
18:25 drojf sorry phone
18:25 drojf i think i have something around 60mb x2 for plackup, two more plackup with ~6mb and mysql with… 50mb or something
18:25 drojf for virtual size, let me have a look
18:26 drojf i don't think my numbers are fair anyway since it never ran really long or was heavily used
18:26 jcamins drojf: I'm wondering for a development machine.
18:27 jcamins I'm using starman instead of plackup, and I don't know how the memory usage compares.
18:27 drojf 2230 mysql     20   0  321m  53m 5664 S   0,3 22,9   0:07.12 mysqld                                                   2624 koha-koh  20   0 70588  54m 5132 S   0,0 23,4   0:29.31 /usr/bin/placku
18:27 drojf 2619 koha-koh  20   0 42880  31m 3360 S   0,0 13,5   0:08.08 /usr/bin/placku
18:27 drojf heh not very useful paste
18:28 drojf 321m  53m mysqld
18:28 drojf 70588  54m /usr/bin/placku
18:28 drojf 42880  31m /usr/bin/placku
18:29 drojf but i had just restartet it
18:29 drojf i have never managed to run starman. how much ram does that take?
18:29 jcamins A lot more.
18:30 drojf keep in mind i font have much more and i dont know if it would just die if it's "really" used
18:30 drojf s/font/don't/
18:31 drojf i will try it with the 512mb ram version next week i hope
18:31 jcamins I still haven't figure out _exactly_ how much it's using, but VSZ is 200-something MB, and the debug console reports memory usage as 64MB.
18:32 jcamins *figured
18:33 drojf how many threads did you enable in starman?
18:33 jcamins Ummm...
18:34 jcamins 2.
18:34 libsysguy joined #koha
18:34 jcamins No point in having lots if it's just me.
18:34 user00 joined #koha
18:37 bag @seen sekjal
18:37 huginn bag: sekjal was last seen in #koha 1 week, 0 days, 2 hours, 41 minutes, and 30 seconds ago: <sekjal> this is one of the first times I've listened to music at work… that's definitey something I miss from my home office days
18:49 user00 @seen nengard
18:49 huginn user00: nengard was last seen in #koha 23 hours, 20 minutes, and 30 seconds ago: <nengard> oleonard, i understand it all, but can't explain right now ;)
18:50 nengard hi
18:54 rhcl hey, u make it home ok? We had a 6 hour delay out of SFO
18:58 nengard i had a 30 min delay out of san jose
18:58 nengard and a 2 hour delay out of msp
18:58 nengard but yes, i made it home!
18:59 nengard 6 hour is crazy!!!
19:14 Brooke joined #koha
19:14 Brooke o/
19:14 jcamins o/
19:15 cait hi Brooke
19:15 Brooke hallo
19:16 Brooke wie geht's?
19:16 cait gut :)
19:32 cait @wunder wellington, nz
19:32 huginn cait: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 14.0°C (8:00 AM NZDT on October 27, 2012). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 72%. Dew Point: 9.0°C. Pressure: 29.74 in 1007 hPa (Steady).
19:32 * Brooke throws a pink flag.
19:32 Brooke Taunting. 15 Yard penalty. Loss of Down.
19:51 edveal joined #koha
20:06 nengard left #koha
20:40 francharb joined #koha
20:58 asaurat left #koha
21:17 cait left #koha
21:33 YoungPublicLibrarian joined #koha
21:35 YoungPublicLibrarian Okay, how do I get a report to return the "Librarians Only" messages in a query?
21:37 libsysguy joined #koha
21:39 drojf YoungPublicLibrarian: i think it is weekend in most parts of the world already
21:43 YoungPublicLibrarian Like, the "borrowers.borrowernotes" returns the notes in the Circ field under EDIT, "messages.message" gives the "Patron" messages, but nothing that I can find gives the "Librarians Only" messages...
21:43 YoungPublicLibrarian drojf: I thought that might be the case. I guess I'll try Monday or Wednesday...Just very odd that I can't find that one particular field in the schema...
22:29 edveal left #koha
22:52 maximep left #koha
22:53 JesseM left #koha

| Channels | #koha index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | plain, newest first | summary