Time Nick Message 01:11 jcamins_away cait1: why are you still awake? 01:11 * cait1 hides 01:19 rangi http://librarianfacts.tumblr.com/ 01:19 rangi @quote get 221 01:19 huginn rangi: Quote #221: "I used to be sane like you, until I took a MARC data to the knee" (added by chrisc at 09:28 PM, October 23, 2012) 01:20 cjh hahaha 01:20 jcamins lol 01:22 jcamins Another cait?!? 01:22 cait more fun! 04:28 WaylonR hiya all. SearchMyLibraryFirst ... what is it supposed to do in opac, with no userenv.. i.e no user logged in? 04:53 mtj probably nothing 04:54 mtj … theres no way for koha to know what your $library is 04:54 mtj in that state, currently 05:51 francharb morning 05:57 mtj heya francharb 05:57 wahanui francharb falls asleep easily at sea. Don't believe me? Just ask Brooke. 05:59 francharb 0/ mtj 05:59 mtj .. after eating a few of those little hambuger things, and all that walking - i was feeling pretty sleepy too 05:59 francharb :) 06:16 tweetbot` [off] twitter: @ranginui: "The two students working on #kohails finished up for the year today, hope to see them back next year" 06:17 mtj hmm, i've got some weird OPAC behaviour with searching for 'available' items, on a koha 3.8.5, using DOM 06:18 mtj i get an ERROR from zebrasrv too, doing that search 06:18 mtj "19:17:28-26/10 zebrasrv(4) [request] Search biblios ERROR 114 1 1+0 RPN @attrset Bib-1 @and @attr 1=1016 @attr 4=6 @attr 5=1 quest @and @not @attr 1=_ALLRECORDS @attr 2=103 '' @attr 1=8024 @attr 2=103 '' @attr 1=8002 @attr 4=109 @attr 2=3 0" 06:19 mtj the same 'availability' search seems to work OK using the old GRS1 stuff 06:19 mtj … anyone else spotted this/knows how it fix it, etc? 06:23 mtj ive just done a fresh make/make install, so the latest zebra/dom files are def. current 06:24 mtj . 06:25 mtj or phrased another way… does anyone have a DOM koha, with 'limit to available items' searches working? 06:36 alex_a_ bonjour 06:46 julian_m hello 07:05 * magnuse waves 07:12 clrh_ hello 07:12 wahanui bonjour, clrh_ 07:12 magnuse @wunder boo 07:12 huginn magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 4.0°C (8:50 AM CEST on October 26, 2012). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 87%. Dew Point: 2.0°C. Windchill: -1.0°C. Pressure: 29.09 in 985 hPa (Steady). 07:23 reiveune hello 07:23 wahanui hola, reiveune 07:24 sophie_m hi #koha 07:24 matts hi ! 07:45 cait hi #koha 07:49 magnuse kia ora cait 07:49 cait hi magnuse :) 08:18 drojf good morning #koha 08:19 cait good morning drojf 08:23 drojf hi cait 08:25 cait drojf++ mveron++ and all other translators I might have missed 08:54 mveron Hi #koha 08:54 cait hi mveron! 08:54 cait just discovered how far the gemran translation already is 08:54 cait that is awesome 08:55 mveron Thanks :-) I hope I did not to much mistakes :-) 09:07 magnuse mistakes can be improved later :-) 09:08 * magnuse hopes fredericd can figure out the problem with the nb-NO prefs file 09:20 * Oak waves 09:21 Oak magnuse 09:21 Oak Guten tag cait 09:22 Oak kittens will be fine. yes. 09:23 gerundio hi everyone, good morning 09:24 magnuse Oak - gah, not quick enough... :-) 09:24 cait hi Oak :) 09:24 gerundio during a meeting with our faculty librabry coordinator I was told that a Koha community event is going to take place in Portugal, in the capital Lisbon I guess, sometime this year 09:24 gerundio does anyone has any info on that? 09:24 * magnuse has not heard about it 09:25 cait me neither - maybe there is somethong on the spanish speaking mailing list? 09:25 gerundio I found this reference online: http://www.koha.pt/?p=60 09:26 cait ah, there you go :) 09:26 magnuse cool 09:37 gerundio I see is just a Portguese community event 09:38 gerundio I was hoping it was a more general one :) 09:38 gerundio well, you won't have the chance to visit sunny Portugal this time 09:38 drojf which reminds me 09:39 drojf someone at kohacon wanted to da a european koha thing, maybe in portugal 09:40 magnuse a EuroKohaCon? 09:42 cait hm 09:42 cait we shoul dhave one in Germany... it's nice and central... ;) 09:43 magnuse yay 09:43 magnuse was that cait volunteering to organize i heard? 09:44 drojf i am in germany all the time. and southern germany is not central at all :P i vote for northern norway or portugal. or croatia ;) 09:44 cait not sure... 09:45 cait see that dagger i nmy back... 09:45 drojf :P 09:45 gerundio Portugal is nice and an entry point in Europe 09:45 cait I hink we have too many countries in europe... we can argue about this forever :) 09:45 * gerundio was born in Germany too actually :D 09:46 cait we should do it in nz again 09:47 drojf yeah, eurokohacon in nz \o/ 09:47 cait heh 09:47 magnuse lol 09:47 gerundio cait, I think you want some far away vacation :p 09:47 cait it's lovely there, you would like it 09:47 gerundio I'm sure I would 09:47 magnuse well, no reason to argue - whoever volunteers to host it first is the winner! 09:47 magnuse nz++ 09:48 gerundio I'm trying to plan my next long course vacation trip 09:48 gerundio I was thinking to go to Germany as a matter of fact 09:48 gerundio it's been almost 30 years since I've left and never got back 09:48 drojf it's overrated ;) 09:48 cait ignore drojf 09:49 cait gerundio: du sprichst deutsch? :) 09:49 gerundio I still have family in Köln 09:49 gerundio no cait :( 09:49 gerundio I left at a very young age 09:49 drojf did you grow up here? 09:49 gerundio and my parents always talked Portuguese around the house 09:50 gerundio so I never picked up any German at all 09:50 cait ah 09:50 gerundio drojf, I grew up in Portugal 09:50 cait we can teach you :P 09:51 cait but... sticking with english is probably a lot easier 09:52 WaylonR hmm.. kohacon 2013... whats the chances of getting livestream/ustream.tv feeds set up for the talks? 09:53 cait I don't know - gues sit depends on the costs and the host 09:53 drojf WaylonR: ask the hosts? 09:53 gerundio my parents still speak a little German from time to time 09:53 drojf would be nice of course 09:53 magnuse WaylonR: depends on the bandwidth of the venue too, i think 09:54 WaylonR would be fantastic. 09:54 WaylonR Since im not able to go for money reasons. 09:55 cait :( 09:55 drojf i wish we could have a stream. it would be so important for all koha users in the european world 09:55 * drojf hides 09:55 cait lol 09:57 WaylonR And as my org only uses a porton of Koha, may not see the relevance of me going to Con. Also, it would be classed as income, the travel and accom... and nz social security would count it as such, then adjust my benefit for the year accordingly, penalising me for it. 09:57 * WaylonR idly wonders how much such a trip could cost... 09:58 cait this sounds really complicated 09:59 WaylonR yea, which is the reason most beneficaries don't earn money. Too difficult to manage. 10:01 WaylonR omg! Reno, Nevada, is a huge place for couch surfing. 10:01 drojf anyway, we could try to revive that european thing. i remember paul_p and rafael from portugal came to me to talk about it. maybe have a european section on the website and try to have more "local" events, things like that. as long as it is not about fragmenting the community (like having a european google group…) i think that would not be a bad idea 10:01 WaylonR Couchsurfing = Free accomodation in exchange for.. well.. being yourself. 10:07 gerundio drojf, community fragmentation is always a risk in those cases, but if I remember it correctly, Drupal pulled it off 10:08 gerundio from what I can tell their community as events worldwide as is working as one 10:08 gerundio here are their guidelines http://drupal.org/community 10:10 * WaylonR nods. "Would love a Koha hackcon in Wellington someday/week. 10:10 WaylonR Group motivated koha hacking, yeah! 10:10 cait it's the best koha hacking :) 10:11 WaylonR Right now, alone, its hard to get motivated. I got so many tasks to port to current, and so little motivation. 10:11 drojf we have a regular hackfest in france (organized by biblibre) but apart from that there is not much inner-european stuff going on as far as i can tell. and the hackfest is nothing a "normal" librarian would visit i suppose. there are local workshops of course. 10:11 cait hm they had librarians testing last time 10:11 cait quite a lot of them actually 10:11 drojf ah ok 10:11 cait and translating 10:11 wahanui it has been said that translating is ok of course :) 10:11 drojf cool 10:11 drojf i didnt know that 10:12 WaylonR hackfest? 10:12 wahanui hackfest is probably slowly seing hackers leaving... 10:12 WaylonR huh? 10:12 WaylonR wahanui, forget hackfest 10:12 wahanui WaylonR: I forgot hackfest 10:12 drojf still its very nerdy, not something like the "main" kohacon 10:12 cait but I guess more the system librarians, having knowledge how to test 10:13 cait and I think biblibre helped setting up the servers with patches for them to test 10:13 WaylonR hackfest is awesome! Group motivated koha hacking is the best koha hacking :) 10:13 WaylonR hackfest? 10:13 wahanui rumour has it hackfest is awesome! Group motivated koha hacking is the best koha hacking :) 10:13 WaylonR thanks cait 10:13 drojf which reminds me i should write something up about our workshop 10:13 cait oh yep 10:18 gerundio off-topic: is Koha's UI built around any usability guidelines? 10:19 drojf i like when people feel they have to label their koha-questions "off-topic" in #koha :P 10:20 gerundio :) 10:20 cait gerundio: there are some design patterns 10:20 cait and oleonard described them on the wiki 10:20 cait but I think that is not exactly what you were asking about? 10:22 gerundio not really cait, I meant usability for the amblyopic (I hope Google Translator got this one right :p) and color blind for instance 10:23 cait ther is a bug to improve accessibility with some ongoig work 10:24 cait bug 8712 10:24 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8712 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , We should use WAI-ARIA guidelines to help with accessibility -OMNIBUS bug 10:25 gerundio nice :) 10:26 gerundio just yesterday, during that meeting with our library coordinator, I was introduced to this new color codes for colorblind people 10:27 gerundio from what I can tell it looks like it's going to be big 10:27 gerundio http://coloradd.net 10:28 gerundio this new color identification system is already being ported to cloth info tags 10:28 gerundio our subway system for line identification 10:29 drojf but is that "the standard" or "one standard"? what is w3c saying about it? 10:30 gerundio don't really know 10:30 gerundio take a look at the overall chart http://www.colblindor.com/2010/01/13/coloradd-a-color-coding-system/ 10:30 gerundio don't really know if this as that much publicity close to web developers' communities 10:31 * magnuse had not seen http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Interface_patterns before 10:32 gerundio and I don't think it caught w3's eye yet 10:41 gerundio ok, now the fun part of the meeting 10:41 cait hm? 10:41 gerundio I have some questions to check if I can manage to do some things in Koha 10:43 drojf ask? 10:43 wahanui Don't ask to ask, just ask. 10:57 drojf i suppose he meant to ask his people and not us then? 11:02 magnuse probably 11:04 magnuse @later tell jcamins bug 8805 needs a new patch when your new patch on bug 8665 gets pushed, right? 11:04 huginn magnuse: The operation succeeded. 12:08 jcamins_away bug 8805 12:08 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8805 major, P5 - low, ---, magnus, Needs Signoff , Add a biblio-zebra-indexdefs.xsl for NORMARC 12:08 jcamins_away bug 8665 12:08 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8665 critical, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, Needs Signoff , DOM indexing fails to index some bib records 12:09 jcamins_away magnuse: yes. 12:10 magnuse jcamins_away: ok, i'll obsolete my patch 12:10 * jcamins_away should sign off on 8805 once that happens. 12:11 jcamins mtj: "Limit to available" doesn't work. 12:11 jcamins Period. 12:11 jcamins Not in GRS-1 or DOM. 12:12 magnuse jcamins: a signoff would be great :-) 12:12 cait jcamins: maybe we should hide it :( 12:13 magnuse sounds like it 12:13 cait jcamins: what's the big problem? shouldn't it just limit onloan being something? 12:13 cait or not being? 12:14 jcamins cait: I think we should, yes. 12:14 jcamins cait: that would make sense, but that's not what it does. 12:15 cait :( 12:15 magnuse fix it or remove it (temporarily), i'd say 12:15 cait do I want to ask? probably not 12:15 cait I am more for fixing it... but not sure how hard itis 12:15 cait it's a popular feature in opacs 12:15 jcamins cait: very. 12:15 cait but can't leave it like it is 12:15 magnuse jcamins: very popular or very hard to fix? 12:16 jcamins magnuse: very hard. 12:16 magnuse :-( 12:17 cait :( 12:17 jcamins It is impossible to make it work with GRS-1, and making it work with DOM will be impractical at least until I've finished the funded parts of the search rewrite. 12:17 cait hm 12:17 jcamins At that point, it will merely be very difficult. 12:17 cait so what should it do? 12:17 magnuse sounds liek we should comment it out in the template until someone gets around to fixing it then 12:18 cait limit the search to records, that have at least one entry with onloan being empty? 12:18 cait ok, you would kick out electronic and serials this way, but it would do somewhat would you expcet 12:18 jcamins cait: we can't do that. 12:18 cait and what if we said something like... onloan not starting with 2? 12:19 cait something stupid? 12:19 jcamins The best we can do with GRS-1 is limit to records that do not have any checked out items. 12:19 cait becuse it has a date... so when there is one onloan field in the record that is not having a date... it would bring it up 12:19 cait jcamins: oh? 12:19 cait I was thinking about the itemtype limits 12:19 cait where is the big difference here? 12:20 jcamins cait: item types have data. 12:20 cait yeah 12:20 cait that's why I mant: not have a date 12:20 jcamins I think changing everything to understand onloan being set to a true value that isn't a date would be just as problematic as fixing the indexes. 12:21 WaylonR wow.. i would of thougth that bug was a huge bug... as in critical. 12:21 cait WaylonR: I think we agree with you... 12:22 WaylonR how has libraries, such as HLT, coped without it? 12:22 jcamins Libraries that only have a single copy of a given book aren't affected. 12:22 cait WaylonR: I think most libraires don't notice 12:22 cait you wouldn't think that 12:22 cait I agre 12:22 cait but they don't 12:22 cait I never got any bug report about it 12:23 WaylonR sounds like the librarians never tried the flag. 12:23 WaylonR and patrons didn't really mind the problem enough to complain. 12:24 jcamins Exactly. 12:24 WaylonR or never had the will to complain.. "oh.. huh.. doesn't work. Okay.. hrm." 12:25 WaylonR Or didn't know who to complain to. 12:25 WaylonR But sooner or later, someone will notice, someone will complain, and we'll have to have a fix. 12:25 tcohen morning #koha! 12:26 tcohen its friday! 12:26 jcamins Yes, I would love to have it fixed. 12:26 jcamins I was hopeful it would be fixed as part of the DOM indexing project. 12:26 WaylonR DOM supports all the features of GRS-1? 12:27 jcamins And a lot more. 12:29 WaylonR how difficult is it to convert all the GRS-1 configs, to DOM? 12:29 cait that's been done I think 12:29 cait the problem is we don't want to convert them the way they are... I guess 12:29 cait bcause that means not making use of the dom features we want? 12:30 jcamins WaylonR: we already did that. It wasn't that hard. 12:31 magnuse jcamins: is that conversion just a starting point, or will we continue to generate the dom configs from the grs-1 config? 12:31 jcamins magnuse: just a starting point. 12:31 jcamins The GRS-1 to DOM script should *never* be run again. 12:31 * WaylonR has a GRS-1 custom config that i need to convert. 12:32 jcamins Unless someone has a custom record.abs they want to keep. 12:32 jcamins Which, granted, is probably going to be pretty common. 12:32 cait ah 12:32 WaylonR custom record.abs, modified bib1.att, and ccl.properties. 12:32 cait so I think I misunderstood what you wrote to the list earlier 12:33 WaylonR so yea.. an automated conversion process would be much appreciated. 12:34 jcamins WaylonR: you can keep your bib1.att and ccl.properties files. 12:34 WaylonR ah? dom only replaces record.abs? 12:34 jcamins Right. 12:34 jcamins It replaces indexing configuration. 12:35 magnuse jcamins: "The GRS-1 to DOM script should *never* be run again" --> that is once we start editing and improving the dom config? 12:36 WaylonR how do i get this GRS-1 to DOM script? 12:36 jcamins magnuse: right. 12:36 magnuse jcamins: thanks 12:36 jcamins Once the configuration has been created and signed off, DOM configs will necessarily start diverging. 12:36 jcamins WaylonR: misc/maintenance/grs1-to-dom or something like that. 12:37 magnuse WaylonR: http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=blob;f=misc/maintenance/make_zebra_dom_cfg_from_record_abs;hb=HEAD 12:37 jcamins That's the one. 12:38 magnuse this is also involved: http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=blob;f=etc/zebradb/xsl/koha-indexdefs-to-zebra.xsl;hb=HEAD 12:38 jcamins Right. 12:38 jcamins koha-indexdefs-to-zebra.xsl is still used. 12:39 magnuse i followed the two steps at the very bottom here to generate the dom config : http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Switching_to_dom_indexing 12:46 oleonard Hi #koha 12:47 WaylonR Oh yeah! my secure search mod works well. 12:48 jcamins WaylonR: what does it do? 12:48 WaylonR so, from one koha install, one koha db, one apache server, multiple virtuhosts can equal multiple libraries, and those libraries, unless the user is logged in, will only be able to access their own records. 12:48 jcamins Oh. 12:48 jcamins Right. 12:48 jcamins You told me about this. 12:48 WaylonR yup 12:49 cait hey oleonard :) 12:49 cait it's good to see you 12:49 cait and your many patches! 12:49 cait oleonard++ 12:49 jcamins Now you can submit a patch. :) 12:49 magnuse @arewethereyet 12:49 huginn magnuse: Not yet - wait 27 days 12:49 magnuse ooh... 12:50 gmcharlt good morning 12:50 cait hi gmcharlt :) 12:50 WaylonR then, once the user is logged in, if they have been given access to other libraries, in secure mode, they are able to search their branch + assigned others, assigned by branchcode extended attributes. 12:50 cait we were discussing dom and indexing questions earlier 12:51 cait WaylonR: sounds good :) whatabout records with items from mulitple libraries? 12:51 jcamins My electrical bill is almost reasonable this month. 12:51 jcamins Well- reasonable for this apartment. 12:51 jcamins Which is not reasonable at all. 12:51 WaylonR And, if multiple library searching mode is on, they get the abilty to select via checkboxes on a dropdown, which libraries to do a search on, in advanced search. 12:52 WaylonR yes, cait.. it searches based on branch: 12:52 WaylonR so.. that means home branch of an item? 12:52 cait do you see the items of other branches on the records? we were discussing ways to limit to the library only at work 12:53 cait oh, and records without any items (serials) 12:53 WaylonR records without any items.. ah.. don't show up.. yeah, didn't think about that. 12:54 WaylonR not sure how to handle that. 12:54 WaylonR all our pdfs get given branches to belong to. 12:54 * jcamins heads into the city. 12:55 WaylonR and items get automatically created accordingly. 12:55 WaylonR hmm.. heres an explaination of our library.. 12:55 WaylonR waylon? 12:55 wahanui waylon is, like, the 33rd developer of Koha, currently working for Mandumah.com, a digital library archive. Hes currently porting koha 3.0 modifications to Koha 3.10 12:56 WaylonR so... journals have volumes, then issues, then articles. 12:56 WaylonR so.... we have a journal table, that says what branches a journal belongs to. 12:57 WaylonR each time we enter a article in, it gets the journal inputted. 12:57 WaylonR and system creates an item or items in the branches accordingly. 12:57 WaylonR make sense, cait? 12:58 cait hm 12:58 cait trying :) but I guess it does :) 13:10 WaylonR cait, so, in your case... hmm.. yeah, in searches, you'd be restricted to items in your specific branch or branches allocated. But you'd see that they are in other branches you don't have access to. 13:10 WaylonR since thats an output of XSLT right? 13:10 WaylonR locations available. 13:10 cait hm not strictly only the xslt 13:10 cait xslt in results 13:11 WaylonR right. 13:11 cait items table from the database in details 13:11 WaylonR yes.... but yea.. can't see how to stop users from seeing that other branches exist. 13:11 WaylonR other than not show them locations available. 13:20 gerundio ... and back 13:20 gerundio all universities in Portugal just suffered a internet outage :| 13:22 gerundio cait, drojf, wahanui still around? 13:22 cait yes 13:22 gerundio lets see if I can post my questions now :) 13:22 gerundio earlier I was saying that 13:23 gerundio we have an in-house academic managment system with all our to-be patron details 13:24 gerundio is it possible to extend the patron's profile with a new attribute who's value would be a contatenation of a fixed URL + an id mapped from LDAP? 13:24 cait i am not sure I understand what you want/need to do 13:25 cait you can define your own patron attributes in koha but I think there is a patch waiting for sign off to make this work with ldap 13:25 cait you could also always reuse one of the existing fields I think 13:25 gerundio yes, I'll be testing that later on 13:26 gerundio the doubt here is if the field can be a sum of a fixed part + a value from LDAP 13:27 gerundio lets assume the fixed URL part is http://koha:8080/cgi-bin/koha/members/moremember.pl?borrowernumber= 13:27 gerundio and the borrowernumber would come from a field in LDAP 13:28 cait what do you want to use that for? 13:28 gerundio I know this is far fetched 13:28 gerundio but I got asked about this 13:28 cait I mean if the part is fix for all borrowers... do you really need to have it there? 13:28 cait couldn't the system using the value just add it? 13:28 cait in display? 13:29 gerundio the borrower URL was just ment as an example 13:29 cait yep I know 13:29 cait but if the fixed part is fixed... 13:29 gerundio library staff want a direct link from the koha patron details screen to our own academic record where there are additional details 13:30 cait ah 13:30 cait you could use jquery to do that 13:30 cait you will have to use jquery, to add the anchor tag anyway 13:30 gerundio ok, so the straight answer is "no possible" :D 13:30 gerundio not ^ 13:30 cait well everything is possible - it's open source :) 13:30 cait and free software 13:30 gerundio I know 13:30 cait heh 13:31 cait I think easiest way to do is safe it into the database 13:31 cait and do some jquery magic to make the informatoin appear as a link and add the fixed part there 13:31 cait because only a link in the field will still require copy and paste 13:31 cait hm or 13:31 cait you could enhance the patron attributes to have a new option for an ulr 13:31 cait url 13:31 cait that should not be so hard 13:32 cait hm hope that makes sense 13:32 gerundio but our premise around here is "use what's provided on the official package so we can reduce maintenance costs over time" 13:32 cait yep 13:32 cait i was thinking giving that back as a new feature :) 13:32 cait because it would be nice 13:33 cait so change once ... and get it in standard koha before your next update 13:34 cait and jquery would also be a way to do it safe 13:35 gerundio that's our premise too, like the LDAP patch :) 13:35 gerundio but this feature is low priority, so I wouldn't get the expectations too high 13:36 cait yeah I understand 13:36 cait as I said, adding some local jquery should work I think to give you a link 13:36 cait I have to do some reading now - will be bck later :) 13:36 gerundio 2nd question: is it possible to assign two different categories for a single patron? 13:36 cait no 13:36 cait the category dictates the issuing rules 13:37 cait if you need more, maybe using the bsort statistics fields and/or patron attribures will help 13:37 WaylonR okay... hmm... am i missing something here.... 13:37 gerundio we have this rule for books which are bought from our research projects 13:38 WaylonR two different borrower categories? 13:38 WaylonR or two different branches? 13:38 cait gerundio: what is the rule? 13:39 WaylonR Yes, thats the best question. 13:39 gerundio sorry, got a visit in office :s 13:39 WaylonR I'll hold. 13:40 gerundio so just picture this, lets say I'm a teacher here at the faculty 13:41 gerundio I'm assign to a teacher patron category which allows me to do 15 checkouts for a loan period of 150 days 13:41 gerundio on another perspective I'm also doing reaserch on some project 13:42 gerundio and bought a few books which are given to the library and are a part of the catalogue 13:43 cait hm if you can't use different itemtypes, you will have to use the specify due date feature and or different patron accounts with different categories i think... something like that 13:43 gerundio so, the exception is that if I checkout one of this project books I can have them for unlimited (or a lot longer period) time 13:44 gerundio have you been faced with this problem before? 13:44 cait if the project books are a special part of the collection, you could give them a separate itemtype 13:49 cait oleonard: the preselected new search terms is a really bad idea 13:49 cait I commented on the bug. - I had a library requesting this for a project... no fun. 13:50 oleonard I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks so. I feel like I'm coming off as belligerent in that bug 13:50 cait no you are doing good 13:51 oleonard What do you think about adding "and" to the basic form? Useful? Too much information? 13:51 cait and would it work with the cloning of fields? I have only taken a short look at the codeand your comment 13:51 cait I think it's what people expect, so we don't need to show it 13:52 cait if you enter more than one term... you want your results to have both 13:52 cait I think? 13:52 oleonard Yeah I wouldn't expect an inexperienced user to think they would get an "OR" search 13:53 drojf no idea what bug you are talking about but +1 from me. everything else than default "and" is crazy and useless and makes me angry 13:53 oleonard I can see the accessibility argument that the fields need labels though. Not sure how important it is 13:54 cait bug 8712 13:54 oleonard How I might style it: http://screencast.com/t/AHX9xhM2 13:54 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8712 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , We should use WAI-ARIA guidelines to help with accessibility -OMNIBUS bug 13:54 drojf and i think if i want to be able to change this, i have an advanced search page to do that 13:54 cait drojf: the discussion is about the more and fewer options 13:55 cait oleonard: hm, I think I like it better the way it is 13:55 cait but if we need it, yours doesn't look bad 13:55 cait :) 13:56 cait oleonard: btw - I have a bug reported for the bad behaviour of koha here... somewhre in bugzilla 13:56 oleonard I like getting suggestions about accessibility, but I don't like hearing them second-hand. It'd be nice to have a discussion on the list 13:56 cait yeah 14:18 oleonard Ha, I Googled for studies on advanced search form usability and found a report from 1999 comparing HotBot, AltaVista, and Lycos! 14:25 jcamins oleonard: how to AltaVista and Lycos stack up? :P 14:25 oleonard I don't know, after the screenshots started my eyes started to hurt and I left 14:25 jcamins Hehe. 14:26 jcamins You know, I don't think I ever used the advanced search screen on the OPAC. 14:27 oleonard When I do it's usually to limit by collection code (which in my library means audience+format) 14:27 jcamins Oh, you're right. 14:27 jcamins Occasionally I do it for limiting. 14:28 cait same here 14:28 cait and searching for new books using date range 14:29 cait I never use the search options I think, only the limits 14:29 cait and the date range 14:29 wahanui the date range is in the item record and nengard's records don't have items 14:32 jcamins I think I mostly use yr,gt:2000, but possibly I've used that feature, too. 14:32 sophie_m hello : could someone send me the list of languages to load as authorised value LANG in authroised_values table in english (I've only got it in french). Thank you 14:33 jcamins sophie_m: that's not a default category. 14:33 jcamins You'll have to just translate the French to English, I think. 14:34 cait sophie_m: i think it#s currently only used in UNIMARC for cataloguing 14:35 sophie_m cait: it is also use to limit search on languages, don't you use it in marc21 ? 14:35 wahanui okay, sophie_m. 14:35 jcamins sophie_m: that's not from authorized values. 14:35 jcamins That's from the language stuff. 14:36 cait the advanced search builds on the language tables 14:36 cait the descriptions and pull down there 14:36 cait and in cataloguing catalogers enter the codes and use the plugin for the controlfield 14:36 cait jcamins: that right? 14:37 jcamins You can look in installer/data/mysql/en/mandatory/subtag_registry.sql 14:37 jcamins That's correct, yes. 14:37 cait ok, i am off to the super market - bbiab 14:38 sophie_m thank you cait and jcamins 14:38 jcamins For fennel? :) 14:38 cait jcamins: hm I have fennel, maybe a mango 14:38 cait bread most of all 14:38 jcamins Yay! 14:38 cait :) 15:06 phasefx hey guys, for the OPACNoResultsFound system preference, are there any macros/variables available there where we could say, propogate search terms to other catalogs/engines via the HTML placed there? 15:06 jcamins phasefx: no. 15:06 jcamins There was a patch do add that, but it didn't work consistently. 15:07 jcamins Bug... 15:07 phasefx jcamins: thanks. I tried suggesting something to someone involving javascript and parsing the location object, but it was a bit much 15:07 jcamins Bug 7620 15:07 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7620 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha, Needs Signoff , OPACNoResult, add search string to available parameters 15:07 phasefx jcamins++ 15:07 jcamins Oh, there's a new patch. 15:07 jcamins You should test it and sign off if it works. 15:08 * phasefx shall so endeavor 15:08 lavamind Hi, I just upgrade my Debian Koha packages, but having a problem with indexing. rebuild_zebra.pl now only works as root, running with the -koha user (while no error message appears) doesn't produce any *.mf index files... 15:08 jcamins lavamind: you should not be running rebuild_zebra.pl directly when using packages. 15:09 jcamins Do a chown -R user-koha:user-koha /var/lib/koha/user/[whatever] 15:09 jcamins Then run sudo koha-rebuild-zebra --full user 15:09 jcamins (substituting your instance name for "user") 15:10 lavamind jcamins: I made sure to set the environment variables in the command, following whats in koha-rebuild-zebra 15:10 jcamins lavamind: ah, that was wise. 15:10 jcamins In that case, probably you just need to change the ownership on the files and rebuild. 15:10 jcamins Why were you running rebuild_zebra directly? 15:11 lavamind jcamins: I've checked ownership, everything is owned by the correct user... 15:12 jcamins lavamind: oh, did you use su -? If you just use su, sometimes the effective UID gets screwed up. 15:12 lavamind jcamins: I resorted to rebuild_zebra.pl after trying koha-rebuild-zebra unsuccessfully, leading me to figure out that running it as root produced the files 15:13 lavamind no, sudo -u <user> -H command, as in koha-r-z 15:13 jcamins lavamind: hm. Definitely ownership issue then. 15:13 jcamins Okay, sudo -u sets the effective UID correctly. 15:13 jcamins And you just upgraded koha-common? 15:13 lavamind could other directories or files be involved ? 15:13 jcamins From which version to which version? 15:14 lavamind 3.2.5 to 3.8.6 15:14 jcamins Wow. Big jump. 15:14 jcamins So you moved from a non-package install to a package install. 15:15 lavamind no, the previous install was from packages as well 15:15 jcamins 3.2.5? 15:15 lavamind yes 15:15 jcamins I didn't think Koha was packaged until 3.4. 15:15 jcamins Apparently I was wrong. 15:15 lavamind I can check my dpkg logs, one sec 15:16 jcamins No, I just checked. 15:16 jcamins There _were_ packages for 3.2. 15:16 lavamind /var/log/dpkg.log:2012-10-25 12:08:28 upgrade koha-common 3.2.5-1 3.8.6-1 15:16 * jcamins didn't know that. 15:16 jcamins Did you run koha-upgrade-to-3.4 or whatever the script is? 15:17 lavamind the package upgrade ran them automatically, as far as I can tell 15:17 reiveune bye 15:17 lavamind after upgrading the packages and updating translations, everything looked pretty fine 15:19 lavamind I must say, aside from this zebra pain, I was surprised how streamlined the upgrade went, Koha has great Debian packagers 15:19 cait :) eythian++ 15:19 jcamins Yeah, packages are great. 15:20 lavamind here's a log of rebuild_zebra.pl as my koha user : http://pastebin.com/3e9VwCUp 15:20 jcamins It has to be permissions, but I don't know exactly which directory it's likely to be. 15:20 lavamind with -v -v 15:21 gerundio cait, sorry for the long absence 15:21 gerundio hate to leave people hanging 15:21 gerundio even more when I'm the one asking the questions :) 15:21 cait gerundio: it's ok - I was at the super market in the meantime ;) 15:21 gerundio ;) 15:21 jcamins What does `ls -lR /var/log/koha` give you? 15:22 gerundio the project books are regular books for all that matters 15:22 gerundio if a patron, other than the project researchers, want to checkout one of these books 15:23 gerundio they would follow the normal circulation rules 15:23 lavamind jcamins: empty zebra-* logs 15:23 lavamind and root-owned intranet- and opac- logfiles (!) 15:24 cait sorry gerundio, I don't think koha has a feature specific for that workflow 15:24 gerundio I don't think it's possible to use koha to this extent 15:24 gerundio exactly my thoughts 15:24 jcamins lavamind: I'm interested in the ownership of the folders. 15:24 jcamins Wait. 15:24 jcamins I meant `ls -lR /var/lib/koha` 15:24 jcamins Sorry. 15:24 * jcamins was looking in logs for something else. 15:25 gerundio the only workaround I see is to define a specific item type to the books of each project 15:25 gerundio but even so, there's no way to identify the project members 15:25 gerundio as they can be students or teachers 15:26 gerundio I guess they'll just hear a 2nd no :) 15:26 lavamind jcamins: http://pastebin.com/gfaDJ4qb 15:26 cait hm 15:26 cait sorry, I have no idea for a work around 15:26 jcamins lavamind: what's the ownership on /var/lib/koha/prof and /var/lib/koha/prof/biblios? 15:28 lavamind drwxr-xr-x 53 root root 4,0K 11 oct 11:59 koha ---- drwxr-xr-x 6 prof-koha prof-koha 4,0K 25 oct 12:09 biblios 15:29 gerundio meanwhile I've started looking for that LDAP related bug you wanted me to sign off 15:29 gerundio bug 8919 15:29 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8919 critical, P1 - high, ---, dpavlin, Needs Signoff , ExtendedPatronAttributes not populated from LDAP 15:30 gerundio since I'm a noob at koha I'll need some guidance :) 15:30 lavamind jcamins: I think I've got it 15:30 jcamins lavamind: oh? 15:30 gerundio the ExtendedPatronAttributes refered in the bug are the ones defined in the Patron attribute types admin area, right? 15:30 lavamind jcamins: in /var/lock/koha/prof there's a couple of root-owned files 15:31 lavamind -rw------- 1 root root 10 26 oct 10:29 state..LCK 15:31 jcamins lavamind: that might be it. 15:32 jcamins lavamind: Do a `sudo service koha-common stop` followed by a `sudo service koha-common start` and see if that fixes it. 15:32 lavamind jcamins: running koha-rebuild-zebra -v --full prof 15:34 lavamind jcamins: what do you think about adding a line or two about which directories to check for ownership to http://koha-community.org/faqs/zebra-indexing-wont-work-fix-it-aka-search-stuff-up-help/ 15:34 jcamins I think that's an excellent idea. 15:35 jcamins I'll just have to figure out who has write access who I can ask to add it. 15:35 lavamind jcamins: sucess! search is back 15:35 jcamins Hooray! 15:36 lavamind jcamins: so yeah, /var/lib/koha/<user> and /var/lock/koha/<user> 15:37 cait jcamins: interesting question with liz moving! 15:40 lavamind jcamins: I'd be enclined to also remove the "(or root, depending on your setup)" passages 1) you're note supposed to run that stuff as root and 2) if you are, you'd better know what you're doing 15:41 jcamins lavamind: that's a good point. 15:45 lavamind jcamins: perhaps introducing some kind of basic sanity check for ownership in koha-rebuild-zebra could also help 15:45 jcamins lavamind: brilliant! 15:49 lavamind jcamins: do you happen to know who's responsible for koha-common ? 15:49 jcamins lavamind: eythian. I reported a bug on the packaging, and with luck he'll be able to patch koha-rebuild-zebra before I can. 15:50 mib_78v6t5 hello!!!!!!!!!!!!! 15:50 wahanui hello are u there? 15:51 mib_78v6t5 yeah 15:51 jcamins lol 15:51 jcamins Wonder who taught him that. 15:51 jcamins mib_78v6t5: wahanui is a bot. 15:51 mib_78v6t5 lol 15:51 mib_78v6t5 is my 1st time here 15:52 mib_78v6t5 I'm searching and learning how to use koha 15:52 mib_78v6t5 (: 15:52 jcamins Perhaps I shouldn't have told you... you could have provided a Turing test for him. ;) 15:52 mib_78v6t5 lol 15:52 mib_78v6t5 thanks for that, now is too late 15:52 mib_78v6t5 haha 15:52 jcamins A good place to start is the manual. 15:52 jcamins manual? 15:52 wahanui manual is at http://www.koha-community.org/documentation 15:52 mib_78v6t5 yes, I've read it 15:52 jcamins The Koha website is, of course, koha-community.org. 15:52 jcamins Excellent! 15:53 mib_78v6t5 I really need to, we gonna use it from now on in this library 15:53 jcamins The latest stable version of Koha is 3.8.6. 15:53 mib_78v6t5 and I work here 15:53 huginn New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 8947: [SIGNED-OFF] XSLT fallback logic backwards <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=9ea2bb7eca37ded5637be28b888da5af503b89c5> / Bug 8939 follow-up welcome to Robert Williams 194th contributor <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=be3441d64833a48b26912141d85d1470be52f135> / Bug 8939 : Fines being charged during the grace period <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb 15:55 jcamins Welcome to the Koha community. :) 15:55 mib_78v6t5 Thank you! 15:56 mib_78v6t5 Happy weekend to everyone, see you guys on Monday lol! 15:56 jenkins_koha Starting build #917 for job Koha_master (previous build: SUCCESS) 15:56 cait bye :) 16:08 lavamind jcamins: thanks for the bug report, I think that will make a great enhancement -- on the short-term though, I think updating the documentation page I brought up would still be pretty relevant. problems with zebra seem endemic amoing new/inexperienced koha admins 16:09 jcamins Agreed. 16:09 jcamins The person I'd usually ask to make the change is currently moving... 18 time zones. 16:15 jcamins Alas, the hurristormpocalypse may cause our CSA pick up to be rescheduled. 16:16 cait jcamins: 18! 16:18 jcamins cait: GMT-6 to GMT+12 16:27 tweetbot` [off] twitter: @hbraum: "Come work for us! @nekls in Lawrence, KS is hiring a Systems Administrator http://t.co/mF5eEIWS #wordpress #opensource #libraries #kohails" 16:29 bag tag 010 16:30 jcamins @marc 010 16:30 jcamins huginn: noooo!!!! What has happened to you? 16:30 huginn jcamins: A unique number assigned to a MARC record by the Library of Congress. Valid MARC prefixes for LC control numbers are published in MARC 21 Format for Bibliographic Data. [a,b,z,8] 16:30 huginn jcamins: I suck 16:30 jcamins Oh. Nothing. 16:30 wahanui i guess nothing is a requirement, we have guidelines though 16:36 bag thanks jared 16:37 jcamins You're welcome. You probably want 010$a. 16:47 tcohen anyone, a jquery plugin for making ul collapsable? oleonard? 16:47 jcamins tcohen: the tree view one might do it. 16:47 jcamins Don't remember what it's called... 16:47 oleonard we don't use anything standard at the moment tcohen, but jqueryUI has the accordion plugin which might also work 16:48 jcamins jstree. 16:48 jcamins jstree is standard! 16:48 tcohen https://github.com/jzaefferer/jquery-treeview 16:48 tcohen ok! 16:48 jcamins I'm the only one using it. 16:48 jcamins :P 16:48 oleonard Where jcamins? 16:48 wahanui somebody said jcamins was too young to be the President of the United States. Which is a pity, because he had the votes at the 3.12 election. 16:48 jcamins Ergo, 100% of our tree usage is jstree. 16:48 jcamins :) 16:48 jcamins oleonard: authority hierarchies. 16:48 oleonard Oh right, I remember now 16:58 tcohen thanks jcamins,oleonard 17:04 jenkins_koha Project Koha_master build #917: SUCCESS in 1 hr 7 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_master/917/ 17:04 jenkins_koha * mathieu.saby: Bug 8958: Make facets more UNIMARC compliant (revision 1) 17:04 jenkins_koha * williams: Bug 8939 : Fines being charged during the grace period 17:04 jenkins_koha * Paul Poulain: Bug 8939 follow-up welcome to Robert Williams 194th contributor 17:04 jenkins_koha * jcamins: Bug 8947: [SIGNED-OFF] XSLT fallback logic backwards 17:04 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8958 normal, P5 - low, ---, mathieu.saby, Pushed to Master , Facets are not fully UNIMARC compliant 17:04 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8939 major, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Pushed to Master , Fines Charged During Grace Period 17:04 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8947 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Master , Search does not work with CCSR theme and language = nb-NO 17:45 cait hmm 17:46 cait http://www.sanjuanislander.com/island-newshome/more/library/5787-sji-library-to-return-to-former-information-system 17:47 jcamins Looks like they need to think about Koha. :) 17:48 cait hm thy don't say how big they are 18:03 drojf can i put several things in one cookie value? something like 'piwik=yes+socialnetworks=no+amazon=no+google=yes' or is that bad for some reason? i would prefer not to use one cookie per possible privacy setting 18:04 jcamins drojf: sure. You just have to URLencode it, I think. 18:05 drojf cool 18:05 drojf i have baked cookies before, but setting them… 18:05 cait heh 18:06 drojf hm. i think i have to bake cookies. thanks, brain 18:07 cait cookies yay! 18:07 * cait tell your brain her address for the package 18:07 drojf he 18:08 drojf reminds me that i forgot to send in my broken headphones :( 18:08 drojf thanks again, brain 18:08 oleonard SJL's 2010 annual report says their circ was 177,077. Not very big. 18:09 cait ah nope 18:10 cait that's not exactly good publicity for wms 18:12 oleonard Why would they switch back to something that they know they have to switch away from again? 18:13 jcamins oleonard: anything is better than WMS? 18:13 cait oleonard: perhaps because the contract was still there? 18:14 oleonard Now I'm curious about how bad WMS is. 18:14 cait I mean they could go back to it maybe for less cost and no trainingfor staff 18:14 cait of course... everything is only a guess 18:14 jcamins drojf: around? 18:15 drojf jcamins: a minute maybe :9 why? 18:15 jcamins drojf: wondering about RAM usage for Plack without Starman. 18:17 jcamins What's the virtual memory size of Koha under Plack? 18:25 drojf sorry phone 18:25 drojf i think i have something around 60mb x2 for plackup, two more plackup with ~6mb and mysql with… 50mb or something 18:25 drojf for virtual size, let me have a look 18:26 drojf i don't think my numbers are fair anyway since it never ran really long or was heavily used 18:26 jcamins drojf: I'm wondering for a development machine. 18:27 jcamins I'm using starman instead of plackup, and I don't know how the memory usage compares. 18:27 drojf 2230 mysql 20 0 321m 53m 5664 S 0,3 22,9 0:07.12 mysqld 2624 koha-koh 20 0 70588 54m 5132 S 0,0 23,4 0:29.31 /usr/bin/placku 18:27 drojf 2619 koha-koh 20 0 42880 31m 3360 S 0,0 13,5 0:08.08 /usr/bin/placku 18:27 drojf heh not very useful paste 18:28 drojf 321m 53m mysqld 18:28 drojf 70588 54m /usr/bin/placku 18:28 drojf 42880 31m /usr/bin/placku 18:29 drojf but i had just restartet it 18:29 drojf i have never managed to run starman. how much ram does that take? 18:29 jcamins A lot more. 18:30 drojf keep in mind i font have much more and i dont know if it would just die if it's "really" used 18:30 drojf s/font/don't/ 18:31 drojf i will try it with the 512mb ram version next week i hope 18:31 jcamins I still haven't figure out _exactly_ how much it's using, but VSZ is 200-something MB, and the debug console reports memory usage as 64MB. 18:32 jcamins *figured 18:33 drojf how many threads did you enable in starman? 18:33 jcamins Ummm... 18:34 jcamins 2. 18:34 jcamins No point in having lots if it's just me. 18:37 bag @seen sekjal 18:37 huginn bag: sekjal was last seen in #koha 1 week, 0 days, 2 hours, 41 minutes, and 30 seconds ago: <sekjal> this is one of the first times I've listened to music at work… that's definitey something I miss from my home office days 18:49 user00 @seen nengard 18:49 huginn user00: nengard was last seen in #koha 23 hours, 20 minutes, and 30 seconds ago: <nengard> oleonard, i understand it all, but can't explain right now ;) 18:50 nengard hi 18:54 rhcl hey, u make it home ok? We had a 6 hour delay out of SFO 18:58 nengard i had a 30 min delay out of san jose 18:58 nengard and a 2 hour delay out of msp 18:58 nengard but yes, i made it home! 18:59 nengard 6 hour is crazy!!! 19:14 Brooke o/ 19:14 jcamins o/ 19:15 cait hi Brooke 19:15 Brooke hallo 19:16 Brooke wie geht's? 19:16 cait gut :) 19:32 cait @wunder wellington, nz 19:32 huginn cait: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 14.0°C (8:00 AM NZDT on October 27, 2012). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 72%. Dew Point: 9.0°C. Pressure: 29.74 in 1007 hPa (Steady). 19:32 * Brooke throws a pink flag. 19:32 Brooke Taunting. 15 Yard penalty. Loss of Down. 21:35 YoungPublicLibrarian Okay, how do I get a report to return the "Librarians Only" messages in a query? 21:39 drojf YoungPublicLibrarian: i think it is weekend in most parts of the world already 21:43 YoungPublicLibrarian Like, the "borrowers.borrowernotes" returns the notes in the Circ field under EDIT, "messages.message" gives the "Patron" messages, but nothing that I can find gives the "Librarians Only" messages... 21:43 YoungPublicLibrarian drojf: I thought that might be the case. I guess I'll try Monday or Wednesday...Just very odd that I can't find that one particular field in the schema...