IRC log for #koha, 2012-07-27

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:00 dcook Signifies the same thing?
00:00 rangi @karma for IE
00:00 huginn rangi: for IE has neutral karma.
00:00 rangi @karma for ie
00:00 huginn rangi: for ie has neutral karma.
00:00 rangi what!
00:00 rangi ie--
00:00 rangi @karma for ie
00:00 huginn rangi: for ie has neutral karma.
00:00 rangi hmmm
00:00 rangi explorer--
00:00 dcook :O
00:01 rangi ahhh
00:01 rangi @karma IE
00:01 huginn rangi: Karma for "IE" has been increased 0 times and decreased 42 times for a total karma of -42.
00:01 rangi there we go
00:01 * dcook thinks that he may have found his problem. Damn case sensitivity
00:01 rangi @karma ie
00:01 huginn rangi: Karma for "ie" has been increased 0 times and decreased 42 times for a total karma of -42.
00:01 dcook IE--
00:01 rangi @karma explorer
00:01 huginn rangi: Karma for "explorer" has been increased 0 times and decreased 1 time for a total karma of -1.
00:01 dcook Damn straight
00:02 dcook Well, I suppose the case sensitivity is a JS issue, but IE changing how it capitalizes html elements is irritating..
00:03 rangi yep
00:03 dcook Mind you, it could be that my code is problematic
00:03 rangi i try never to write straight js anymore
00:03 rangi always just use jquery
00:03 rangi mostly cos it handles the crossbrowser issues better than i could
00:04 dcook I'm thinking that's what I had better do
00:05 dcook Mind you, if the jQuery datatables were better, I wouldn't have to do anything :p
00:06 rangi :)
00:06 rangi id drop owen a note theres not a lot he doesnt know about jquery
00:07 dcook Hmm, good idea
00:07 dcook I tried using jQuery.inArray() last night, but I couldn't get it to work..
00:07 dcook I'll have to ask him if I continue to meet roadblocks
00:10 dcook Hmm, now I try it...and it works. Funny how you can spend a few continuous hours without success, but if you just wait until the next morning, everything flows easier.
00:10 dcook I think that takes care of the case sensitivity and the lack of support for indexOf. Go jQuery!
00:11 melia left #koha
00:11 rangi sweet
00:12 dcook Thanks for the reminder to give it another go ;)
00:16 dcook Hmm, actually, case sensitivity still a problem. Just .inArray is definitely a good replacement..
00:23 jenkins_koha Starting build #110 for job Koha_3.8.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
00:46 Justin joined #koha
00:47 Justin Hi. I am introducing Koha to one of our schools and the librarian has some questions. I was wondering if I could direct her to here to see if she could get some answers?
00:48 rangi yep, here or the mailing list
00:48 Justin Thanks. I will forward her a link for both
00:49 rangi depending on the time of the day there are varying numbers of people actually at their keyboards here
00:49 Justin No problem. Thanks. Bye for now
01:24 ago43 joined #koha
01:26 jenkins_koha Project Koha_3.8.x build #110: SUCCESS in 1 hr 3 min: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]b/Koha_3.8.x/110/
01:26 jenkins_koha * jcamins: Bug 8204: Add user friendly authority view to OPAC
01:26 jenkins_koha * jcamins: Bug 8204: fix UNIMARC display
01:26 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8204 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, Pushed to Stable , Authority viewer in OPAC ugly, unfriendly, and mostly useless
01:34 logbot joined #koha
01:34 Topic for #koha is now Koha 3.8.3 and 3.6.7 Now Available | Koha Community Website - | General IRC meeting, 8 August 2012 at 02:00 UTC+0
02:44 mtompset joined #koha
02:46 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
03:09 mtj attn: #koha any chance we could get more people 'following' the 'offical' koha repo on github? please...?
03:10 mtj ->
03:10 mtj ->
03:10 mtj why? for all the obvious reasons... ;)
03:13 mtj s/following/watching/
03:20 mtompset git?
03:20 wahanui well, git is[…]Control_Using_Git
03:21 mtompset Is it the one listed here? ...
03:21 mtompset The URL doesn't match.
03:21 mtj no, its the offical koha repo... on github
03:22 mtompset why would I choose github over koha-community?
03:22 mtompset I'm just asking as a person who is new to the whole use of git.
03:22 mtj if was down.... you could use that repo - its a mirror , sync-ed every hour
03:23 mtj thats why...
03:23 mtompset Okay...
03:23 mtj and some pretty graphs....
03:23 mtompset So, what if it was the other way around?
03:23 mtompset Is there a way to tell git the "backup location"?
03:24 mtj not automagically
03:25 mtj afaik
03:25 mtompset because that would be useful to do.
03:25 mtj thats potentially a dangerous feature, so it hasnt happened
03:25 mtompset I can see the danger.
03:26 mtompset But still... dangerous doesn't mean don't implement. :P
03:51 dcook mtj: you mean that you want people following it but only using it as a "next" resort, yes?
03:52 mtj yeah, i want people click teh little 'watch' button on it :)
03:53 mtj thats all...
03:54 dcook Sounds good
03:55 dcook Being a joiner is fun!
03:55 dcook ...
03:57 mtompset I can be a slacktivist -- unless I have to subscribe. :)
03:58 mtompset GAH! I have to subscribe.
03:59 mtompset I did click 'watch' though, mtj
03:59 mtj cool, thanx for doing that :)
04:00 dcook Signed up and watching as well
04:01 mtompset keener! :P
04:01 dcook C'est moi
04:02 dcook Does anyone use any file merging tools such as WinMerge?
04:03 * mtj reciprocates dcook's favour , and follows him back...
04:03 dcook o rly?
04:04 mtj sure i did - one good turn, deserves another
04:05 dcook Reciprocity is pretty awesome
04:05 dcook Github says you're not following me and that I'm not following you though :o
04:06 cait joined #koha
04:12 mtj says i'm following you - where $i eq 'kohaaloha'
04:13 dcook It says the same, but my back-end stats for "followers" and "followed" haven't changed
04:13 mtj ' Koha-Community' is a organistation on github - not a user
04:13 dcook Am I looking for bugs in github? Maybe...
04:14 mtj ... so it cant 'watch' anything, as such
04:14 dcook I know. I followed KohaAloha
04:14 dcook Actually, it says KohaAloha has no followers on the organization/community page as well
04:14 mtj ps: the 'watcher' refresh on github is slow - for some specific pages
04:15 mtj my hunch is you're on one of those pages ;)
04:15 * dcook shrugs
04:16 dcook Ca m'est égal. I clicked :P
04:17 mtj yep, thats all i'm asking... :)
04:19 mtj dcook:  and no to winmerge, yes to git
04:20 dcook The plan is to develop in git
04:20 dcook However, we can't use packages, since we're on opensuse
04:21 mtj ah yep... i know a great fix for that....
04:21 dcook Change OS? :P
04:21 wahanui dcook: that doesn't look right
04:21 wahanui joined #koha
04:24 cait morning :)
04:24 dcook morning, cait :)
04:25 mtj yeah, i'm having lots of problems trying to do koha-development on my xbox?! :/
04:25 mtj please helps!
04:27 mtj nah, just kidding...
04:28 dcook Right...
04:29 mtj but seriously, ask yourself - is it worth the additional time/pain/problems of running koha on suse
04:29 dcook That's a question for someone other than me ;)
04:29 * dcook is not the server admin
04:29 mtj theres a reason why i run everything on debian...
04:30 mtj ... and that reason is because everyone else here does
04:30 dcook That makes sense
04:30 dcook I was talking to rangi the other day about how I will use Debian when I do my personal install
04:30 rangi A valid other response would be packaging for side
04:31 dcook But...there are times when people don't necessarily have the option of using Debian
04:31 rangi Suse
04:31 mtj if i discover a horrible ,horrible problem with my system - theres a very good chance someone else here has too
04:31 rangi Opensuse have a build system
04:32 rangi That does lots of rpm based stuff. It just needs someone to maintain rpm packages
04:32 mtj i dont wanna be the only guy in the world running production koha+openbsd systems
04:33 mtj ... only to discover a strange bug, that no-one can help me with :/
04:34 mtj i'm the little baby gnu, that sticks close to the herd :)
04:34 mtj (safety in numbers, and all that...)
04:34 rangi Unfortunately I know nothing about packaging other than debian
04:35 dcook Mmm, I do remember you mentioning rpm before, rangi
04:36 rangi Quite a few Indian koha + suse users
04:36 rangi Just need someone to package it
04:37 rangi I'd like to see koha packaged and in all distros
04:38 dcook Agreed. Variety is the spice of life
04:38 dcook With packages...
04:38 dcook You're packaging up all the files from the git and putting them out, yes?
04:38 rangi Pretty much yes
04:39 rangi Putting them in the right places
04:39 dcook So each time you update your installs, you're really re-installing?
04:39 rangi Not quite
04:40 rangi Most of the install is configuration
04:40 rangi Copying files is the easy bit
04:40 rangi Upgrading copies files and updates the evening
04:41 rangi And pulls in New dependencies
04:41 rangi (In packages that is)
04:41 rangi It doesn't reconfigure
04:41 rangi Evening = database
04:42 rangi Thanks autocorrect
04:42 rangi And now I need to go.
04:43 dcook Thanks for the info, as always, rangi  :)
04:51 mtompset OpenSuse?!
04:51 mtompset GAH!
04:51 mtompset I was reading the install file for that. UGLY!
04:51 mtompset Hey, there was a PS2Linux which was short lived. :)
04:52 mtompset mtj, I run Ubuntu. :P
04:53 druthb joined #koha
04:53 mtompset And now I'm caught up. :)
04:53 * mtompset goes back to real non-koha work. :(
05:19 Oak joined #koha
05:22 mtompset Greetings, Oak
05:23 Oak hello mtompset :)
05:24 Oak guten morgen cait
05:24 Oak kia ora #koha
05:26 dcook afternoon, Oak
05:26 Oak afternoon dcook :)
05:39 cait hi Oak :)
05:53 francharb joined #koha
05:55 francharb morning
05:58 laurence joined #koha
05:59 dcook morning, francharb
05:59 francharb hi dcook
06:07 cait hi francharb :)
06:07 francharb hello cait
06:09 alex_a joined #koha
06:10 alex_a bonjour
06:10 dcook salut alex_a
06:10 alex_a dcook: hello
06:10 wahanui que tal, alex_a
06:12 laurence joined #koha
06:29 julian_m joined #koha
06:31 julian_m hi
06:31 wahanui salut, julian_m
06:44 reiveune joined #koha
06:44 reiveune hello
07:02 * clrh tunnel bfm limoges
07:07 Oak joined #koha
07:10 asaurat joined #koha
07:14 dcook_away 'night/'morning everyone!
07:20 paul_p joined #koha
07:21 paul_p good morning #koha
07:22 mveron joined #koha
07:23 mveron hi #koha
07:24 asaurat joined #koha
07:25 gaetan_B joined #koha
07:25 gaetan_B hello
07:25 wahanui hola, gaetan_B
07:34 kf joined #koha
07:34 kf good morning #koha :)
07:34 mveron good morning kf
07:35 kf hi mveron
07:37 mveron Is there kind of bug omnibus for the Koha manual (e.g. for http://manual.koha-community.o[…]lfcheckout.html)?
07:37 kf I think there is a module documentation
07:38 kf perhaps better file individual bugs?
07:38 mveron Ok, thanks
07:49 eythian joined #koha
07:52 kf morning eythian
07:54 eythian hi
08:12 paul_p hi eythian Nice trip to NL ?
08:12 paul_p eythian i've seen there has been some problems on the TGV line. I hope you've not been affected
08:13 eythian paul_p: it was, yeah. Got a good bit of work done on the train.
08:13 eythian No, not at all, everything ran pretty much exactly to time.
08:14 paul_p eythian = lucky man. Seems that someone tried to steal some valuable cables (yes, really...), and broke the TGV line for more than 24 hours... all trains 2 hours late !!!
08:14 eythian oh wow
08:14 paul_p (copper cables cost a lot, and we have frequent stories like that of some ppl sealing 1km or more of copper cable !!!)
08:14 eythian glad I missed that then
08:14 eythian Yeah, I've heard about that kind of thing now I think about it.
08:18 mveron_ joined #koha
08:19 kf ok... that is werid.
08:19 mveron joined #koha
08:19 kf I have a student for which no notices have been generated and I don't see why :(
08:21 kf the borrower category says notices should be generated, the notice triggers are configured for the library and the category, there are notice templates, there is an email in the patron record and all other mails are there
08:24 gaetan_B kf, did you know that in the search field in pootle, you can choose several possible fields in which to search, including locations ?
08:25 gaetan_B francharb, and i figured this out recently and it can be *very* useful...
08:26 kf I did know - but it's still a pain combining template(location) and single words :(
08:27 kf but it really can be very useful finding a special string you are looking for that appears in a lot of pages
08:29 gaetan_B yes exactly, actually it's the only way to properly translate all those isolated bold words
08:29 gaetan_B and the sentences around them
08:37 * kf nods
08:39 * gaetan_B is a bit ashamed to have only figured this out now
08:40 kf it's very easy to miss :(
08:40 kf I should have probably put a note somewhere so people canfind that feature
08:41 paul_p_ joined #koha
08:42 kf ok, I foudn the problem with my notices - Koha was right :)
08:42 reiveune1 joined #koha
08:42 kf magnuse: around?
08:43 asaurat joined #koha
08:43 magnuse kf: yup!
08:44 kf should we start advertising the 10th for gbsd - searching bugs?
08:45 magnuse kf: yeah!
08:45 kf can I bribe you to write the email to the list?
08:46 magnuse hopefully
08:46 magnuse what do we want to say?
08:46 kf hmm
08:46 magnuse maybe start with a wiki page?
08:46 kf date, a link to the new dashboard, link to the bug squashing page in the wiki
08:46 kf yep
08:49 magnuse huh, did the update to 3.8.3 change when the updates for package installs are run?
08:50 magnuse s/updates/backups/
08:52 magnuse here's a basic page:[…]bug_squashing_day
08:53 magnuse the GBSD template needs some editing, at least to include the dashboard
08:53 eythian magnuse: I don't think so
08:53 eythian I think it just runs in cron.daily
08:53 eythian I think sometimes some machines run that at a different time
08:54 magnuse ah, that would do it, yes
08:57 magnuse i think maybe i changed when the daily cron should run, and it got changed back when i apt-get upgrade'd
08:58 magnuse kf: my brain feels empty today, could you take a look at the wiki page and see if anything else needs changing or adding?
09:01 kf sorry, was running around at work
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09:01 kf yep I can take a look
09:01 magnuse thanks
09:01 kf magnuse: maybe we can get rid of some links tomake it a bit easier?
09:02 kf not sure how to edit the template vs. editing the page - mediawiki confuses me
09:02 kf we could put some bountiews on the what to do stuff
09:02 kf if we had bounties...
09:04 magnuse you can edit the template here:[…]squad&action=edit
09:09 Oak joined #koha
09:13 magnuse Oak
09:16 Oak magnuse
09:16 Oak :)
09:17 magnuse yay!
09:18 magnuse kf: should we encourage people to pay extra attention to bug 8233?
09:18 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8233 major, P2, ---, jonathan.druart, Signed Off , New search engine layer - introduce solr without breaking anything else
09:18 kf notsure people can do much here
09:18 kf I would like to encourage to test modules
09:18 kf and confirm bugs, file new bugs
09:18 kf not only concentrating on signing off, but doing a bit to get a better pciture of where we are now and what needs to be fixed before release
09:19 magnuse a good plan! feel like putting that into the wiki page?
09:20 kf will try
09:20 kf but perhaps this afternoon
09:20 kf have some  support tickets to deal with first
09:21 magnuse np!
09:24 julian_m joined #koha
09:38 vfernandes joined #koha
09:39 vfernandes hi guys
09:40 vfernandes It's possible to change the bibliographic model to have some fields with the indicators already filled?
09:41 kf vfernandes: I think there was some work done about indicators - have you checked bugzilla?
09:43 vfernandes[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7149
09:43 huginn Bug 7149: normal, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , authorized values for indicators don't work
09:53 vfernandes ok there is a bug in the indicators... but if I want to have two subfields $a already filled?
09:53 vfernandes default value...
09:54 kf yes
09:54 kf but I think no default values for indicators yet
09:55 vfernandes ok... but how i put two $a already filled... i can only put one... :/
09:55 drojf default values for indicators would be nice
09:56 drojf i encourage you to send a patch ;)
09:56 drojf good day #koha
09:58 kf good drojf :)
09:59 drojf good kf ;)
09:59 kf lol
09:59 kf don't read what I write... read my mind... ah, better not.
10:00 drojf heh
10:00 drojf @wunder berlin, germany
10:00 huginn drojf: The current temperature in Prenzlauer Berg, Berlin, Germany is 27.5°C (11:12 AM CEST on July 27, 2012). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 36%. Dew Point: 11.0°C. Pressure: 29.98 in 1015 hPa (Steady).
10:00 drojf real summer
10:00 drojf but new thunderstorms tomorrow
10:01 kf same said for here, but I don't believe in it yet
10:02 kf lunch time!
10:03 drojf vfernandes: you want to repeat subfield a for a field?
10:09 magnuse @wunder boo
10:09 huginn magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 13.0°C (11:50 AM CEST on July 27, 2012). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 72%. Dew Point: 8.0°C. Pressure: 30.04 in 1017 hPa (Steady).
10:10 drojf why is that guy answering all these old emails on the koha list?
10:10 drojf hi magnuse
10:11 magnuse drojf: because ha can? ;-) and hi!
10:11 drojf lol
10:22 paul_p_ joined #koha
10:24 drojf mmmh freshly rebased bug 8377 get it while it's hot, nom nom nom
10:24 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8377 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, mirko, Needs Signoff , Show HTML5 video/ audio for media files in OPAC and staff client
10:25 drojf and for dessert we recommend a light bug 8492
10:25 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8492 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, mirko, Needs Signoff , Restrict OpacSuppression to IP adresses outside of an IP range
10:36 kf_lunch lol
10:36 kf_lunch wish I could test those yummy bugs
10:43 drojf well you already have lunch ;)
10:43 kf right :)
10:43 * drojf goes to take a shower
10:44 kf *sigh*
10:50 mtompset joined #koha
10:50 mtompset Greetings, #koha. Day has ended, the koha coding can begin.
10:52 magnuse mtompset++
10:52 mtompset Thanks, magnuse.
10:53 mtompset jcamins_away and I have been dialoguing about this script I have been working on.
10:54 mtompset It lists dependencies missing from the repos, dependencies found in the repos, and then dependencies not listed in install_misc/ubuntu.{version}.packages files
10:54 kf cool :)
10:54 mtompset It assumes that the is correct. :)
10:55 mtompset I'm working on tweaking it to compare against DEBIAN repos under Ubuntu, and vice versa
10:55 mtompset as long as you have an appropriate sources.list file.
10:58 mtompset One drawback, even if I got the script working is that the repos don't have an Index file usable by apt-file.
10:58 mtompset I think jcamins_away will be working on solving that problem. :)
10:59 mtompset Because then when a new release is about to go out, run the script against 2 debian and 2 ubuntu sources.list files including the k-c repo, and then we'll know if something is missing and where to fix it.
11:04 magnuse cool
11:09 magnuse has there been any progress on the "replace online help with text from the manual" front while i was away?
11:12 kf magnuse: sadly no - but some progress on making po files for the manual
11:12 kf led by the arabic koha translation team :)
11:13 kf I think if we got more translations, it would be a logical next step
11:18 magnuse yup
11:21 mtompset po files for the manual?!
11:22 mtompset Isn't that going to be huge?!
11:24 kf not huger than the staff
11:24 kf it would even reduce the staff translation file in size, if we managed to create some magic link between both
11:24 kf because at the moment we translate the context help files within the staff file
11:24 mtompset Well, that much is true.
11:25 mveron @wunder Basel
11:25 huginn mveron: The current temperature in Basel, Switzerland is 32.9°C (1:18 PM CEST on July 27, 2012). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 36%. Dew Point: 16.0°C. Pressure: 29.95 in 1014 hPa (Falling).
11:25 mtompset But aren't there extra explaining sentences in the manual? That's why I think it would be larger than the staff or opac clients.
11:26 kf hm I think it would probably be a little less than the staff file at least
11:26 kf because you have to translate the interface, the help, all error message setc.
11:26 kf the point is translating it once in the future
11:26 kf and provide a translated manual and translatedonline help
11:26 mtompset That would be awesome.
11:28 mtompset Does anyone know the name of a perl library which is in Debian, but not in Ubuntu?
11:29 kf pass
11:30 amw joined #koha
11:30 amw Hi all
11:31 amw 3What is the easiest way to install all koha Perl modules
11:31 mtompset what OS are you using?
11:32 amw 3I am using Debian
11:32 mtompset then use the packages.
11:33 amw 3what packages ?
11:33 mtompset[…]on_Debian_Squeeze
11:33 jwagner joined #koha
11:34 mtompset those instructions are likely best for your scenario.
11:34 amw 3mtompset: Thanks does the link show all the dependencies ?
11:34 mtompset Will you be doing development and helping generate patches for koha?
11:34 mtompset No.
11:35 mtompset It tells you how to set up, in such a way that you don't need to ask that question.
11:35 mtompset which install to use?
11:35 wahanui If you're developing, you should use git. If you're not developing on a deb-based system, you should use packages. If you're not developing on a different flavour of Linux, you should use the tarball.
11:36 mtompset git?
11:36 wahanui git is, like,[…]Control_Using_Git
11:37 nengard joined #koha
11:40 mtompset Greetings, nengard
11:40 nengard hello
11:40 wahanui bonjour, nengard
11:42 drojf left #koha
11:44 amw 3 10Q mtompset
11:44 amw 3I am using tarball for production use
11:44 amw 3I got it
11:44 mtompset Why not use packages?
11:44 mtompset It's much easier under Debian that way.
11:45 awm joined #koha
11:45 mtompset Why not use packages?
11:45 mtompset It's much easier under Debian that way.
11:45 awm ok
11:46 awm tnxs
11:46 mtompset You're welcome.
11:52 jcamins_away 06:51 #koha: < mtompset> jcamins_away and I have been dialoguing about this script I have been working on.
11:52 jcamins Sorry.
11:52 mtompset Not a problem.
11:53 mtompset Just giving you some credit for what I'm coding up.
11:53 mtompset just playing with apt-file -s now to see how to integrate it into the script.
11:54 mtompset Thanks for the source files.
11:55 mtompset Did you know that debian has bugzilla3 integrated, but ubuntu doesn't?
11:55 mtompset Well, at least something with "perl" in it. :)
11:55 drojf joined #koha
11:57 mtompset Sadly, the k-c repo doesn't have Index files to download a Contents file.
11:58 jcamins @later tell eythian Could you add the line "Contents: . .gz" to each distribution in conf/distributions on
11:58 huginn jcamins: The operation succeeded.
11:58 kf maybe talk to eythian about adding one?
11:58 * jcamins has dealt with the issue. :)
11:59 mtompset Great. I hope to have the apt-file stuff working later tonight/this morning. Yep, a coding blast. :)
11:59 mtompset It's the Weekend. Woo hoo!
12:03 * mtompset cranks up the youtube...
12:06 drojf oh it's this "not available in your country" website
12:07 kf ah
12:07 mtompset black eyed peas: Let's Get It Started.
12:07 kf drojf: I think I have seen that one... *sigh*
12:07 mtompset youtube is not available in your country?
12:08 mtompset jcamins: Question... will you be wanting to purge the apt-file cache between check_deps?
12:08 jcamins mtompset: I don't see any reason.
12:09 drojf mtompset: "gema" is forcing youtube to block a lot of songs. they claim to be the only german organisation to collect money for performance rights
12:10 mtompset that's a downer, drojf.
12:10 drojf "claim to be" is possibly wrong, at the moment they are
12:10 kf yeah
12:10 kf but other things are not available at all
12:10 drojf there is a creative commons group in the making
12:10 kf grooveshark
12:10 drojf because gema rips of the smaller artists too
12:11 mtompset jcamins: So, then perhaps it would not be unreasonable to take a long time to apt-file update on ALL the .lists in --list-dir, even if only one will be specified?
12:12 mtompset because if they are all up to date, it's not too long.
12:12 jcamins mtompset: that seems reasonable to me.
12:12 mtompset and if they are out of date, it will speed up the next check.
12:13 mtompset and interestingly... if you do have an apt-file cache in your home dir...
12:13 mtompset the default one is the only one checked when you don't specify one of the sources.list
12:14 mtompset So, I don't think this will affect the apt-gets whatsoever. :)
12:15 mtompset I'll know about other OS's, but not be stuck installing the wrong things.
12:15 mtompset This script is working out conceptually and actually well. :)
12:16 oleonard joined #koha
12:17 kf hi paul_p and oleonard
12:17 oleonard Hi
12:18 paul_p hi kf & good morning oleonard
12:18 paul_p (& jcamins & mtompset & drojf & everybody)
12:18 mtompset Bonjour, paul_p
12:18 mtompset Greetings, oleonard
12:23 oleonard I have a question about patron attributes
12:23 oleonard On the patron entry screen where you enter patron attributes, there is a "clear" link
12:24 oleonard Is there any reason why that link should not clear all kinds of inputs, including password type fields?
12:24 oleonard ...because right now the "clear" link excludes password fields
12:25 kf hm
12:25 kf can't think of a reason
12:25 jcamins julian_m++
12:25 jcamins julian_m++
12:25 jcamins (once for each patch)
12:25 kf oleonard: are you working on the display of patron attributes?
12:25 kf I was wondering if we should not only show the description and hide the code
12:25 oleonard No, just testing Bug 8431
12:25 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8431 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Needs Signoff , Increase the borrower attribute field size from 64 characters to 255
12:26 oleonard kf I don't see any reason to show the code either
12:26 kf I think it's a bit ugly the way it is to be honest
12:27 oleonard I wish we didn't display them in a table. Maybe I should work up a patch for that to help convince others
12:27 julian_m jcamins, do you check your emails every minutes? 0_0 you're amazing ! :)
12:28 * mtompset nods. Here, here for jcamins. ;)
12:29 jcamins julian_m: I reported that bug. :)(
12:29 kf oleonard: that sonds like an excellent idea - because I am sure you could make it look pretty :)
12:29 jcamins -(
12:29 oleonard julian_m: This is jcamins' work area:[…]ideas-560x420.jpg
12:29 kf lol
12:29 * mtompset laughs!
12:29 jcamins Hehe.
12:29 jcamins Actually, I don't even have an external monitor.
12:29 mtompset 4 screens is enough.
12:30 mtompset I'm working on an external to reduce heat in my poor netbook. :)
12:30 julian_m I understand better :-D
12:31 oleonard mtompset's work area:[…]ernal_samsung.jpg
12:32 mtompset Not quite that large, but yes.
12:40 ago43 joined #koha
12:42 mtompset Is about to test his changes... more youtube cranking...
12:42 mtompset (Kenny Loggins -- Danger Zone)
12:44 drojf1 joined #koha
12:48 nengard question (working on the manual) - this preference UpdateTotalIssuesOnCirc says "(WARNING! This increases server load significantly; if performance is a concern, use the cron job to update the total issues count). " -- does that mean you can use that cron instead of logging at the time of checkout? or do you need that in conjunction with this preference?
12:51 mtompset I would think... I don't know... that using both would be bad (tm)
12:52 mtompset And the way it is worded does make it sound like you can use the cron instead.
12:57 drojf joined #koha
12:57 jcamins_away nengard: use the cron job instead of the preference.
12:57 nengard that's what I figured - thank :)
12:57 nengard thanks
12:59 mtompset That was an interesting typo.
13:00 mtompset , instead of : returned the last character instead of truncating it. :)
13:03 reiveune1 left #koha
13:04 reiveune joined #koha
13:07 Oak joined #koha
13:07 oleonard Hi Oak
13:07 Oak hello oleonard :)
13:08 libsysguy joined #koha
13:08 kf Oak.
13:08 mtompset greetings, Oak
13:08 mtompset greetings, libsysguy
13:11 libsysguy morning mtompset
13:12 * mtompset feels the 2L of mountain dew kicking in.
13:12 tcohen joined #koha
13:12 libsysguy do the dew
13:12 oleonard Long night ahead for you mtompset?
13:12 mtompset I want to finish this script I'm working on.
13:14 tcohen hi #koha
13:15 mtompset Greetings, tcohen
13:15 tcohen how r u doing mtompset? how are those scripts working?
13:16 mtompset With jcamins_away's help, I've almost got it cross platform'd.
13:16 mtompset You can do DEBIAN checks under UBUNTU.
13:16 Oak kf
13:16 mtompset and vice versa, and different releases of the same distribution.
13:17 * Oak 's battery is low... fasting
13:18 oleonard What is the purpose of the password associated with patron attributes?
13:19 oleonard Seems like something that might have come from a very specific request. I'm curious what the origin is.
13:20 kf perhaps having login data for a separate application in Kohaß
13:20 kf ?
13:20 magnuse hm, i have a feeling i have seen it explained somewhere...  the manual?
13:20 oleonard Sounds risky: the password is not encrypted
13:20 tcohen CAS?
13:22 oleonard Looking in the manual is so crazy it just might have worked. But no, nothing there.
13:22 magnuse the manual says "Check 'Allow password' to make it possible to associate a password with this attribute."
13:23 magnuse which, i must confess, did not make me a lot wiser ;-)
13:23 nengard i'd love for more info on that :)
13:23 kf I know that the table has a separate column for password
13:23 nengard sometimes i'm just guessing :)
13:23 kf but that's about it
13:25 magnuse http://lists.koha-community.or[…]8-May/000988.html says: "password_allowed (if set, staff patron editor will allow a password to be associated with a value; this is mostly a hook for functionality to be implemented in the future.
13:25 kf magnuse++
13:25 magnuse looks like gmcharlt is the author of that
13:26 gmcharlt magnuse: indeed; it's a hook to allow associating a second login and password with a patron account via the extend attributes mechanism
13:26 mtompset Well, how does a patron currently set their password, and can they change it? Is it possible to prevent them from changing it?
13:27 oleonard Ah, so it must do something amazing in Liblime Enterprise Kurlha
13:27 * gmcharlt knows not
13:29 mtompset That is like 4+ years ago. Quite easy to forget an idea from that long ago. :)
13:30 magnuse yup
13:33 slef heheh kurlha
13:38 nengard i need some git help!
13:38 edveal joined #koha
13:38 nengard I broke things on the manual and want to scrap my local changes and revert the last commit
13:39 nengard I tried git revert and the commit number
13:39 nengard but it didn't work
13:39 julian_m joined #koha
13:39 nengard it keeps saying
13:39 nengard Cannot rebase: You have unstaged changes.
13:39 nengard Please commit or stash them.
13:40 gmcharlt nengard: git reset --hard, then try the revert again
13:40 nengard thanks - giving it a whirl
13:41 gmcharlt mtompset: there's a syspref called OpacPasswordChange you can turn off
13:41 * chris_n greets gmcharlt
13:41 gmcharlt hi chris_n
13:44 mtompset Thanks, gmcharlt
13:48 nengard gmcharlt i can reset and revert, but i can't push my revert
13:49 gmcharlt nengard: if you don't have anything on that branch you want to keep, a slightly more drastic variation to try is
13:49 gmcharlt git fetch origin; git reset --hard origin/master
13:50 nengard whew that worked!
13:50 satyag joined #koha
13:51 gmcharlt mtompset: but n.b. bug 8515
13:51 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8515 minor, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , OPAC password change does not obey OpacPasswordChange
13:51 mtompset I was attempting to learn, not actually do. Thanks. :)
13:57 oleonard I think my kids take that to heart: Don't learn how to do something or mom and dad will start asking you to do it
13:57 nengard is solr integration done? I see that there is a SearchEngine preference in master
13:57 nengard is that just there for when we add solr?
13:59 tcohen is the proposed SolR setup multi-instance capable?
14:01 tcohen I mean, can we have a single SolR server and several koha instances?
14:01 nengard i don't know ? all i know is that I'm updating the manual with new stuff and there is a new preference that lets you choose Solr or Zebra
14:01 nengard I think it's just there as a placeholder ? but want confirmation
14:02 magnuse i think 8233 is mostly pushed?
14:02 magnuse bug 8233
14:02 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8233 major, P2, ---, jonathan.druart, Signed Off , New search engine layer - introduce solr without breaking anything else
14:03 tcohen yeah, i've been reading it
14:03 kf nengard: you can make it work, but it's experimental
14:03 tcohen and is pushed into master
14:03 nengard okay, I'll wait to document it
14:03 kf tcohen: I think it's not working with packages yet -eythian would know
14:03 magnuse paul_p says: "Follow-up provided, I agree it passes QA now, so pushing !"[…]g.cgi?id=8233#c24
14:03 huginn Bug 8233: major, P2, ---, jonathan.druart, Signed Off , New search engine layer - introduce solr without breaking anything else
14:04 kf nengard: you could perhaps put a warning in that it's experimenta
14:04 kf l
14:04 tcohen i was asking if the solr setup can be used for having multiple instances
14:04 nengard well technically master is experimental
14:04 kf yes, it's in
14:04 tcohen or if it is being taken into account at least
14:04 kf nengard: yep, but also the feature is :)
14:04 nengard but until it's integrated and i can actually use it and set it up I can't really document it accurately
14:04 NateC joined #koha
14:05 paul_p nengard = for now, just write "solr is highly experimental, and the syspref must be set to zebra"
14:05 nengard since this is the 3.10 manual - it's easier to just wait
14:05 nengard once it's there i'll put it in the manual
14:05 kf nengard: the thing is you can make it work - it's only not recommended if you don't know what you are doing
14:06 kf like we did with other things in the past
14:06 paul_p kf is right nengard. it's like plack for staff for 3.8
14:06 paul_p (except plack was not using a syspref)
14:06 nengard I'm sorry I started such a windstorm
14:06 paul_p (so it was hidden for most ppl)
14:07 paul_p nengard (I don't see a windstorm ;-) )
14:07 nengard I'm not going to igore the feature, just waiting to document it until it's ready ready ready - think of the 3.10 manual like master branch of Koha - it's a work in progress :)
14:07 nengard I have a doc I keep telling me what features need documenting still :)
14:07 nengard It's listed in there
14:07 kf nengard: sorry too - only wanted to say, there is nothing missing or waiting to be pushed. it's functional :) I think you could even try it - but I don't knwo what else is needed. probably installing lots of packages .)
14:08 nengard Okay, is there a list of those packages on the bug report - i haven't read it yet - really hungry so i need to grab a bite
14:08 nengard brb
14:08 kf paul_p: that right?
14:09 jcamins kf: to use solr you have to install a lot of things from CPAN.
14:09 nengard back
14:09 paul_p yes, well, yes it is. more or less, because authorities, for example, are far from working well
14:10 nengard so what i'm going to need to know is how to document this for the regular users - something like "if you choose zebra you need to have your sys admin install and set up this stuff and if you choose zolr you need your sys admin to set up and install this stuff"
14:10 nengard not now
14:10 nengard but when we're ready
14:11 jcamins nengard: how about, "for Zebra, follow the instructions in INSTALL.debian. Do not use solr unless you are a developer working on it, in which case you can take a look at [wiki page]"?
14:12 paul_p nengard = if you want to play with sold =[…]hEngine_Layer_RFC (well, i'm not sure you'll find it is a funny game :D :D )
14:12 nengard HA
14:12 nengard not fun at all :)
14:12 nengard well ? not fun for me :)
14:12 nengard I know some people who woulkd disagree
14:15 paul_p nengard = some ppl are strange in what they like. It is rumored that some [wo]men are pleased when ... cataloguing in MARC21 !!! I can't believe it !!!
14:15 nengard LOL
14:15 jcamins paul_p: hehe.
14:15 nengard not just women
14:15 jcamins Not me.
14:16 nengard I know men who like it too
14:16 nengard I do have a question on another topic -the patron import tool
14:16 nengard there has been some comments to me recently about documentation not being quite right ? here's what i have
14:16 paul_p nengard = thus the [wo]men, which mean that it's men & women ;-)
14:16 nengard first, does the csv require that all of the headings are there even if there is no data?
14:17 nengard second, how do you format the date - i always say  YYYY-MM-DD but the page says you can use your local format
14:17 jcamins We should redo the patron import tool incorporating some of druthb's brilliant patron import scripts.
14:18 nengard third, i submitted a bug for: 8504
14:18 wizzyrea bug 8504
14:18 nengard bug 8504
14:18 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8504 normal, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , patron import explains attributes import wrong
14:18 wizzyrea keke
14:18 nengard :)
14:18 * wizzyrea highfives nengard
14:18 nengard :)
14:19 gmcharlt nengard: to answer your first question, you don't need to supply all of the headings, just the ones for the mandatory fields and fields you wish to upate
14:19 nengard jcamins i agree - but for now - what is right?
14:19 nengard thanks gmcharlt
14:19 nengard what about borrowernumber - do we want to remove that column or leave it and keep it blank? I know we had some issues with this in the past and I was saying to remove that column
14:19 jcamins (just commenting)
14:20 jcamins bug 8504
14:20 jcamins nengard: I don't know. I don't use it. I was just making conversation. ;)
14:20 kf nengard: I think the dateformat setting is used
14:20 kf nengard: actually pretty suere - for the formatting of the dates
14:20 nengard conversation?? I'm all business this morning ;) hehe
14:20 nengard kf so it does have to be YYYY-MM-DD
14:20 gmcharlt nengard: I'd say keep it -- in principle it is useful as a way to update records if you know the patron ID
14:20 kf well, if that is your dateformat setting
14:20 gmcharlt for example, if you send your patron records out to have their addresses updated
14:20 kf for me it's 01/01/2012
14:21 mtompset high fiving is business? Sounds like business is too fun. ;)
14:21 nengard Oh you said you DO think it's used - i need to read more carefully
14:21 nengard gmcharlt that makes sense
14:21 nengard and thanks kf that too make sense
14:21 nengard so I was wrong on the date
14:21 mtompset YYYY-MM-DD rarely gets misunderstood.
14:22 mtompset It's a lovely date format. :)
14:22 nengard I agree
14:22 nengard but most librarians do not
14:22 nengard they are fussy about that date format
14:22 nengard and want it M/D/YY
14:22 magnuse which is totally loony
14:22 magnuse ;-)
14:22 nengard non programmer librarians I should say
14:22 nengard and I agree!!
14:22 nengard loony
14:22 mtompset Yes, but if you open the CSV in Excel, it will convert it to that.
14:23 nengard that's loony too - i hate when excel changes my date formats on me
14:23 nengard drives me bonkers
14:23 nengard but yes, you are right
14:23 mtompset Yes, but it gives those non-programming librarians what they want.
14:23 wizzyrea they need to change what they want. :P
14:23 nengard exactly!!
14:23 mtompset Don't change the back-end, let them change the front-end.
14:24 mtompset and if they double click in windows, they won't know the difference!
14:25 mtompset (because of Excel's annoying defaults)
14:25 wizzyrea (I recognize that asking them to change what they want is kind of rude. However, if you are changing your ILS, you're already asking for a whole boatload of changes that you will be forced to adapt to. Why not one more. :P)
14:26 mtompset Say that international standards prefer YYYY-MM-DD for cross-compatibility with a host of Operating Systems and Applications.
14:27 wizzyrea naw, it's not about the tech
14:27 wizzyrea because that causes rebellion
14:27 wizzyrea it is that way because it is
14:27 kf nengard: I will look at my sample patron data import to make absolutely sure
14:28 kf nengard: yep, I have DD/MM/YYYY in there and it worked so far :)
14:28 * magnuse wanders off to make pizza (soon)
14:28 jcamins Lucky magnuse!
14:28 * mtompset nods.
14:28 mtompset I wish I was in Canada. I would so be ordering pizza right about now.
14:29 mtompset (assuming it was Friday night)
14:29 mtompset jcamins, could you confirm that CGI::Session::Driver::memcached is not in Debian 6.0.X?
14:30 jcamins mtompset: confirmed.
14:30 mtompset Sweet.
14:30 mtompset do you happen to have a debian 7.0.X lying around?
14:30 jcamins Nope.
14:31 mtompset Anyone here have a debian 7.0.X lying around?
14:31 jcamins Actually, right now I'm slumming and using Windows.
14:31 jcamins Alas.
14:31 * mtompset grins.
14:31 nengard who's in charge of updating schema.k-c?
14:31 nengard Lots of new db documentation patches were pushed recently but don't show on that page
14:32 nengard it was last updated in May
14:32 jcamins It should say on the wiki.
14:35 wizzyrea rangi and/or eythian updates schem
14:35 wizzyrea schema
14:35 nengard hmmm it's not[…]te_Administration
14:35 nengard we should add that
14:35 wizzyrea they use a tool, and it's easy to use too, you can generate your own schema
14:35 * wizzyrea tries to remember what it is
14:36 nengard @later tell rangi can you update schema.k-c there were new documentation patches pushed that don't show there :) thanks!!!
14:36 huginn nengard: The operation succeeded.
14:36 wizzyrea schemaspy
14:36 nengard schemaspy
14:36 nengard jinx
14:36 * wizzyrea curses (silently)
14:36 nengard hehe
14:36 mtompset Where's the high five? ;)
14:36 nengard she doesn't want to high five me for jinxing her
14:36 wizzyrea ^^
14:37 ago43 wizzyrea owes nengard a coke.
14:37 wizzyrea ^^
14:37 * nengard doesn't drink soda
14:37 * wizzyrea either
14:37 nengard but thanks :)
14:37 mtompset beverage of her choosing.
14:37 nengard hehe
14:37 chris_n green tea perhaps...
14:37 nengard YUM
14:37 nengard that I do like
14:37 * wizzyrea tries to remember… fruity cocktails?
14:37 wizzyrea not beer...
14:38 nengard I have a cabinet in my kitchen that has just tea in it - two whole shelves
14:38 wizzyrea tea it is then :)
14:38 nengard wizzyrea is right - cocktails
14:38 jcamins nengard: just two? :P
14:38 nengard my favorite at home is the Bananasplitini at my local bar
14:38 nengard jcamins they're tall and deep
14:38 jcamins nengard: okay, then.
14:38 nengard :)
14:38 jcamins I have very short shelves full of teas... four of them.
14:38 nengard I came home from KohaCon with 4 new teas
14:39 nengard one of them i drank a lot while i was there cause i was sick ? it was lemon green
14:39 chris_n lemon_grass++
14:39 * paul_p would be happy to eat an american cookie for 4PM (that the clock says it is here ;-) )
14:39 mtompset Well, the apt-file updates are painfully slow in my test system jcamins. But I think I have a viable script now.
14:39 * chris_n had a couple of pounds from Singapore that was excellent
14:40 jcamins mtompset: slow is fine.
14:40 jcamins Our favorite tea is from Russia. It's labeled (in English! with no Russian anywhere) "Milky Oolong."
14:40 * chris_n hands paul_p a whole box of cookies
14:40 mtompset Oolong is good, but I can't understand people putting milk in tea.
14:41 jcamins mtompset: no, there's no milk in it.
14:41 mtompset Here in the Philippines there is a 5-in-1 tea... let me see if I can find a reference to it.
14:41 jcamins We figure it was a mistranslation of something.
14:42 mtompset never mind... I confused it with coffee.
14:42 jcamins Oolong... coffee?
14:42 jcamins o.O
14:43 mtompset -- no 5-in-1 coffee.
14:43 mtompset No, Oolong is tea.
14:43 jcamins mtompset: yes, I know. That's why I was so confused.
14:44 mtompset I thought the 5-in-1 was tea.
14:47 ago43 Is there any way to limit a search by "starts with"?  For example, a Dewey call number that starts with '151', and gets all '151.*', but not '*151*' results.
14:47 jcamins ago43: there is.
14:48 mtompset And the magic way is?
14:48 * jcamins is looking.
14:48 ago43 yes, how?
14:48 mtompset BTW, seems like the missing library is 6.0.5 is in 7.0.X
14:50 jcamins callnum,rtrn:151
14:50 jcamins Might work.
14:50 jcamins Otherwise, just use PQF.
14:51 jcamins Frankly, though, I think you'll have a lot more luck with PQF.
14:51 jcamins (@attr 5=1)
14:52 * jcamins uses this as an opportunity to point out that a search rewrite really *is* necessary.
14:53 ago43 I'd agree with the last comment.
14:53 mtompset jcamins?
14:53 wahanui jcamins is A-Grade developper on Koha willing to rewrite it from top to bottom. Good Luck jcamins
14:54 * mtompset grins.
14:54 jcamins Hey-! Someone just proposed a search rewrite.
14:54 mtompset I didn't put that. It's been there for days.
14:54 jcamins mtompset: I know.
14:55 jcamins mtompset: however, someone *did* just propose a search rewrite. Even put up an RFC on the wiki with itemized costs and everything.
14:55 jcamins Nifty, eh?
14:55 mtompset That is a good thing (tm)
14:59 ago43 what is PQF?  Prefix Query Format?
14:59 jcamins Yup.
14:59 jcamins pqf?
14:59 wahanui i think pqf is Prefix Query Format
14:59 jcamins Hehe.
14:59 mtompset Hey, you were referencing yourself. :P
14:59 oleonard Potted Quail Fondue
15:00 jcamins pqf is also at
15:00 wahanui okay, jcamins.
15:00 jcamins pqf?
15:00 wahanui hmmm... pqf is Prefix Query Format or at
15:00 limon joined #koha
15:01 mtompset Greetings, limon -- what's with the different nick?
15:01 limon Mood of the day (motd)
15:01 mtompset Whatever floats your boat. :)
15:02 mtompset jcamins, should I attach this script to a bug report?
15:02 jcamins mtompset: yes please.
15:02 jcamins It's actually for the release-tools repo, so I can format it into a patch and give you credit.
15:03 limon We're in a drought here, no need for a boat.
15:03 ago43 Pretty Quickly Fuzzled here.  Trying callnum,rtrn:151 didn't change the results.  Do I need to add anything to a standard Koha install?
15:03 mtompset okay, fits your fancy -- is that a better idiom? :)
15:03 jcamins ago43: well, as I said, I wasn't too optimistic about it working, notwithstanding the fact that callnum,rtrn should be valid, functional CCL.
15:04 jcamins Note point 1c on my rewrite proposal about our query parser.
15:04 jcamins (and awfulness)
15:04 jcamins ;)
15:04 ago43 okay, thanks jcamins!
15:04 limon @see slef
15:04 huginn limon: I've exhausted my database of quotes
15:04 limon @seen slef
15:04 huginn limon: slef was last seen in #koha 1 hour, 31 minutes, and 9 seconds ago: <slef> heheh kurlha
15:05 jcamins ago43: you'll just have to use PQF for the search... hopefully this is not a search that users will be performing manually.
15:05 slef huh?
15:05 ago43 well, a librarian was asking for it ...
15:06 jcamins ago43: ah. Well, suggest they might want to get involved in the search rewrite.
15:06 jcamins :)
15:07 wizzyrea yes, I think the above is the answer to most librarian questions
15:07 wizzyrea re: search
15:07 wizzyrea "help pay for the rewrite, it'll make it better and you'll have a say"
15:07 jcamins wizzyrea: true. Unfortunately, that's not even a marketing thing.
15:07 jcamins That's actually the answer.
15:08 slef wahanui: the answer to most librarian search questions is "help pay for the rewrite, it'll make it better and you'll have a say"
15:08 wahanui OK, slef.
15:08 mtompset *THE* answer. :)
15:08 slef 42
15:08 ago43 43 is better.
15:08 slef the sixth question?
15:08 wahanui somebody said the sixth question was "Why are you still asking wahanui?" or "How bored are you?"
15:08 * mtompset grins.
15:08 mtompset the fifth element?
15:08 wizzyrea the fifth element is love
15:08 wizzyrea the fifth element?
15:08 jcamins ago43: thinking about it, you'll have trouble if you want to use PQF, too.
15:08 wahanui i heard the fifth element was love
15:09 wizzyrea word.
15:09 * mtompset grins.
15:09 slef that's actually?
15:09 * wizzyrea highfives mtompset
15:09 * mtompset high fives wizzyrea back.
15:09 jcamins ago43: we do some PQF preprocessing, and the "151" bit is liable to get mistreated.
15:10 slef by the way, what?
15:10 wahanui by the way, is it ok to install the Gnome environment, or should I just stick to the Debian command-line (which I'd prefer not to do… very limiting to have to do every single thing via the command line)
15:10 slef network?
15:10 wahanui hmmm... network is very patchy
15:10 jcamins ago43: however, useful piece of advice: always double quote all search terms in PQF queries.
15:10 wizzyrea oh no, It's totally not a marketing thing
15:11 wizzyrea it really is the answer.
15:11 mtompset it really?
15:11 jcamins Hehe.
15:11 jcamins it?
15:11 wahanui it is not.
15:11 jcamins really?
15:11 slef wahanui: what's our favourite tea?
15:11 wahanui no idea, slef
15:11 slef wahanui: favourite tea?
15:11 wahanui i don't know, slef
15:11 jcamins really is <reply> Of course!
15:11 jcamins really?
15:11 wahanui Of course!
15:11 * slef eviscerates wahanui
15:12 * mtompset laughs, "Poor bot."
15:12 * wizzyrea stuffs wahanui's guts back in
15:12 * wizzyrea sews him up carefully
15:12 * wizzyrea pats him "it'll be ok"
15:12 gmcharlt @enable armour_plating
15:12 huginn gmcharlt: Error: You don't have the owner capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified.
15:13 jcamins @whoami
15:13 huginn jcamins: jcamins
15:14 jcamins @whoami
15:14 huginn jcamins: jcamins
15:14 jcamins wahanui: @whoami is <reply> 24601!
15:14 wahanui i already had it that way, jcamins.
15:14 jcamins @whoami
15:14 huginn jcamins: jcamins
15:14 jcamins @whoami?
15:14 wahanui 24601!
15:14 huginn jcamins: downloading the Perl source
15:17 mtompset Was that cascade intentional, jcamins?
15:17 kf have a nice weekend all :)
15:17 jcamins mtompset: I was having trouble getting wahanui to respond properly.
15:17 mtompset you too, kf
15:18 mtompset @whoami
15:18 huginn mtompset: I don't recognize you.
15:18 mtompset @whoami?
15:18 wahanui 24601!
15:18 huginn mtompset: I suck
15:18 mtompset WHAT?!
15:18 jcamins mtompset: see, still not ideal.
15:19 mtompset I'm just testing the script from a directory different than
15:19 jcamins Yes, very important.
15:22 mtompset I tested with the 4 sources.list files you gave.
15:22 mtompset found a bug. ....
15:23 oleonard Patron attributes in rows instead of a table:
15:23 asaurat left #koha
15:24 mtompset Forgot to include $KPD directory in the path for the final phase. DOH!
15:25 jcamins gmcharlt: BTW, any chance you could give me write access to the release-tools repo on
15:29 gmcharlt chris_n: no objection to jcamins request, I assume?
15:29 wizzyrea ohh that's pretty
15:29 chris_n gmcharlt: go for it :-)
15:29 * mtompset grins, "Is this because of the impending script, jcamins?"
15:30 gmcharlt jcamins: done
15:30 jcamins mtompset: actually, I've been meaning to ask gmcharlt for months.
15:30 jcamins gmcharlt++ # thanks
15:30 jcamins mtompset: you just reminded me shortly after a gmcharlt spotting. :)
15:31 mtompset Glad to be a reminder. :)
15:32 mtompset Any suggestions for the bug report title, jcamins?
15:32 jcamins "Script to automatically generate package lists"?
15:32 * mtompset shrugs, "Seems good enough."
15:33 mtompset Just doing another test run now.
15:34 mtompset version unspecified and say that it is useful in all versions?
15:35 jcamins Yeah, that makes sense.
15:35 alex_a1 joined #koha
15:35 jcamins I'll close it once the script has been incorporated into release-tools.
15:35 mtompset Component?
15:37 jcamins mtompset: contribs.
15:39 mtompset Okay. Working on making the (bug) Enhancement report.
15:41 oleonard gmcharlt: Re: Bug 8515, do you not see an error message when you navigate to the password change page?
15:41 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8515 minor, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , OPAC password change does not obey OpacPasswordChange
15:44 jcamins Apostrophes in searches on the OPAC. Remind me how we work around our stupid parser for those?
15:44 gmcharlt oleonard: ah, I see what you mean
15:45 gmcharlt hids the form elements
15:45 eythian joined #koha
15:45 oleonard gmcharlt: ...which is more than other pages do in cases where they can be "turned off"
15:46 oleonard Is there mechanism based on access which could better handle this kind of situation?
15:46 gmcharlt that said, there is still a bug there -- if somebody *also* supplies the form parameters, they can still change the password
15:46 alex_a1 left #koha
15:46 oleonard See: opac suggestions, messaging preferences, patron details
15:47 gmcharlt as far as the mechanism goes, I think as a general rule any CGI script that can be "turned off" should check whether it is allowed to run as one of the first actions it does
15:48 laurence left #koha
15:48 gmcharlt besides just adding the necessary code, one approach that may help enforce this would be adding an option so that get_template_and_user can be (ab)used to check preconditions on whether a feature is enabled
15:48 reiveune bye
15:48 gmcharlt and present a generic "feature is disabled page" if it isn't
15:48 reiveune left #koha
15:50 slef @query city
15:50 huginn slef: Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=1153 minor, P2, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , update to allow moderation, and templatize
15:50 huginn slef: Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3777 trivial, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Field Sizes Inconsistent
15:51 huginn slef: Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8148 critical, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , ldap authentication should FAIL if ldap contains NEW password, and user types the PREVIOUS password
15:51 huginn slef: Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8168 minor, P5 - low, ---, henridamien, NEW , ersatz CSV header in attachment of overdue notices sent to administrator
15:51 huginn slef: Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8287 minor, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , remove filter on checked out from overdues
15:51 slef @query city search
15:51 huginn slef: Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6554 critical, P3, ---, dpavlin, Needs Signoff , Broken encoding in members home/search page
15:51 huginn slef: Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5904 enhancement, PATCH-Sent (DO NOT USE), ---, paul.poulain, Patch doesn't apply , members improvements (Independant branches behaviour)
15:51 huginn slef: Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7544 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle.m.hall, Pushed to Master , Add ability search borrowers only on email / phone
15:51 huginn slef: Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7319 minor, PATCH-Sent (DO NOT USE), ---, oleonard, Pushed to Master , Improve specificity of title and breadcrumbs on acquisitions Z39.50 search pages
15:51 slef bug 7544 seems closest
15:52 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7544 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle.m.hall, Pushed to Master , Add ability search borrowers only on email / phone
15:52 slef but I'm adding fields, not removing them
15:55 wizzyrea bug 6151
15:55 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6151 major, PATCH-Sent (DO NOT USE), ---, jonathan.druart, Failed QA , IndependantBranches and HomeOrHoldingBranchReturn can prevent items from being checked in
15:55 wizzyrea @seen sekjal
15:55 huginn wizzyrea: sekjal was last seen in #koha 6 days, 22 hours, 35 minutes, and 28 seconds ago: <sekjal> melia:  8418 no longer applies
15:57 slef added street address searchfields option - shall I post it as a new enh or a followup patch to bug 7544?
15:57 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7544 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle.m.hall, Pushed to Master , Add ability search borrowers only on email / phone
15:59 oleonard I'd say a new bug slef
15:59 oleonard slef: Does it require an exact match?
16:00 slef oleonard: sames as the current searches
16:00 slef oleonard: so I don't remember. Do you? :)
16:01 oleonard Name searches obviously don't require an exact match, but email and phone searches do
16:01 oleonard ...a fact which severely limits their usefulness IMO
16:02 slef I think I know why the phone might - we have a problem with bracketed words, don't we?
16:03 * oleonard doesn't know
16:03 slef @query search brackets
16:03 huginn slef: Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6448 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, dpavlin, Signed Off , EAN-13 barcode support
16:03 huginn slef: Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5369 normal, PATCH-Sent (DO NOT USE), ---, katrin.fischer, Pushed to Stable , se queries with paranthesis fail
16:03 wizzyrea oh yea new bug for that slef
16:04 slef Bug 8516 Submitted
16:04 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8516 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Add a "Street Address" search option to the patrons search
16:05 mtompset Oooo... olympic opening ceremony in approx. 4 hours.
16:06 slef mtompset: did you like my status update this morning?
16:06 mtompset You're asking in the middle of a 2L Mountain Dew coding-run. My memory is shot. Refresh me.
16:07 slef mjray,  about 9 hours ago: At 0812, many bells in GB will be rung to warn of the invasion of the Olympics. Please RT to help warn ppl // from mustard [Kewstoke, Somerset, England, UK]
16:08 mtompset Ah. But haven't you see the olympic security?
16:08 slef mtompset: not yet. Maybe in the morning if I get this deployment finished (so probably not :( )
16:09 melia joined #koha
16:10 slef patch submitted for bug 8516
16:10 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8516 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Needs Signoff , Add a "Street Address" search option to the patrons search
16:11 satyag joined #koha
16:13 wizzyrea 4 hours!
16:13 wizzyrea eeeks
16:19 slef if anyone hasn't seen the olympic seconds scandal
16:19 slef security, not seconds
16:20 * oleonard wonders why any city would want to have the Olympics
16:20 slef although that's quite sympathetic... I understand there are actually 18000 army troops deployed now
16:21 slef oleonard: yeah... the Olympics being in London was part of the reason kohacon12 was in Edinburgh. Quite a few London hotels and venues were closed for refurbishment, creating a supply shortage, so increased prices.
16:21 gaetan_B bye !
16:22 slef anyone know an easy way to rename a git branch OTTOTH?
16:23 slef OTTOTH is Off The Top Of Their Head
16:23 slef OTTOMH?
16:23 slef wahanui: OTTOMH?
16:23 wahanui no idea, slef
16:23 jcamins git branch -m?
16:23 slef OTTOTH is Off The Top Of My Head
16:23 oleonard git branch -m <new name>
16:23 slef thanks!
16:24 slef I was sure there was one but wasn't seeing it :-/
16:24 slef I was looking around commit --amend which was the wrong place
16:24 jcamins Yup. If you want to move a single commit, you could use git cherry-pick.
16:25 slef I do, far too often :-/
16:25 slef and rebase
16:28 satyag joined #koha
16:38 jcamins nengard: do you have anything special in any of your sidebar prefs?
16:38 jcamins OPACNav or the other one(s)?
16:38 jcamins (re: bug 8204)
16:38 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8204 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jcamins, Signed Off , Authority viewer in OPAC ugly, unfriendly, and mostly useless
16:40 mtompset Shoot! found another bug... good thing it's a coding fest. :)
16:44 jcamins slef: here's how library catalogs are dealing with the cookie law: "We use cookies on this website. By continuing to use this site without changing your cookie settings, you agree that you are happy to accept our cookies and for us to access these on your device. Find out more about how we use cookies and how to change your cookie settings."
16:44 slef does anyone else type into the wrong text box on bugzilla and save a useless search named after the search terms you wanted to try next?
16:44 jcamins slef: yes.
16:45 slef jcamins: that's called implied consent and it's dodgy but legal in the UK at the moment... at least until someone bothers to appeal to the European courts
16:46 nengard jcamins i have html in my opav nav
16:46 jcamins nengard: anything unusual about it?
16:46 nengard not that i see
16:46 * jcamins isn't sure what would make it "unusual." ;)
16:46 nengard it's a basic list
16:47 pastebot "nengard" at pasted "my opacnav" (6 lines) at
16:47 jcamins Hm, yeah, nothing unusual about that.
16:47 jcamins I will look into it this weekend.
16:48 jcamins Bug 7716
16:48 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=7716 enhancement, P3, ---, mjr, ASSIGNED , Statistical/analytic item type
16:54 SJeffery joined #koha
17:01 limon joined #koha
17:07 * oleonard goes to get his ears lowered
17:08 mtompset jcamins: I was wondering... Is debian 4.0.x unsupported now?
17:08 jcamins mtompset: oh yes.
17:09 mtompset So basically, only one stable debian is active at a time?
17:09 jcamins mtompset: I suppose it might be a good idea to produce a list for Lenny (5.0) too, though I don't think anyone has tried installing Koha on Lenny since 3.2.
17:09 jcamins mtompset: I believe so.
17:09 SJeffery There's an academic library looking for info on Koha on the ACAT mailing list if anyone wants to take a shot.
17:09 jcamins liw would know for sure.
17:09 jcamins SJeffery: yeah, I sent her a message off-list.
17:10 jcamins mtompset: security updates for Debian Lenny (5) were discontinued on February 6, 2012.
17:11 cait joined #koha
17:11 mtompset So debian is really focused on a nice clean, stable install, rather than something that just works, even if it is the wrong way.
17:11 * cait waves
17:11 mtompset Hi, cait
17:11 cait hi mtompset
17:11 jcamins mtompset: I think they overlap by a few years, but the emphasis is on stability.
17:12 jcamins liw: is it fair to say that there is no reason to worry about whether Koha would install on Lenny or Etch?
17:13 mtompset though, once this script is working properly... you could tell easily. ;)
17:13 jcamins True.
17:17 mtompset Also, I was wondering... since it really doesn't make sense to check the debian.packages file (there is the koha-common package after all), will it be removed? or perhaps renamed for historical purposes (Lenny/Etch)?
17:18 jcamins mtompset: it should probably be removed.
17:18 slef jcamins: what numbers are lenny/etch?
17:18 cait hm
17:18 cait reading the mail on the list
17:18 cait what does date in predictions mean
17:18 cait ?
17:18 slef one is 4.0 and can be ignored, not sure how else
17:18 jcamins slef: Lenny=5, Etch=4.
17:18 slef cait: is that about serials?
17:18 cait thought it did calculate dates and also that we did have a quarterly pattern
17:18 jcamins cait: I have no idea.
17:18 cait yep
17:19 jcamins cait: as far as I know it does, and we do.
17:19 cait so I am confused that they say both is missing :(
17:19 cait must be something else?
17:19 cait ok, so it's not only me
17:19 slef I think it's easy to break with options. I've a bug report about it somewhere in the co-op which I need to check and maybe send on.
17:19 jcamins Maybe that's not in LLAK, or something?
17:19 slef sysprefs not options
17:20 * mtompset cheers, "My --full=0 and --full=1 output matches as expected!"
17:20 cait jcamins: I think it has always worked that way
17:20 cait we didn't change much in serials
17:20 slef jcamins: says that is discontinued too, so I don't think there's any reason to worry about them.
17:20 jcamins cait: well, there goes that idea.
17:20 jcamins slef: yeah, that was my thought, too.
17:20 slef not on 3.8+ anyway
17:21 mtompset I wasn't thinking 3.8 for lenny.
17:21 mtompset I was thinking 3.6
17:21 slef 3.6 maybe should continue to care for a few months, as it'll have some users on lenny still (because some people won't upgrade during the academic year)
17:22 * slef reads scrollback
17:23 slef mtompset: debian.packages should be removed once there is some script to run to tell people which packages to install (maybe what's used to generate debian/control ?)
17:23 mtompset I'm about to post a nice script. :)
17:24 mtompset It is based on the assumption that is up to date and correct. :)
17:24 mtompset (forgive any typos in the name)
17:24 slef mtompset: if it's not, we're dead six ways.
17:24 mtompset Yes, that's true.
17:25 mtompset What was that sources.list url you found, jcamins?
17:25 jcamins Uhhh...
17:25 mtompset I want to put it in the comments.
17:25 jcamins
17:27 slef RMaint?
17:27 wahanui RMaint are rangi and jcamins
17:28 slef 3.8.x RMaint?
17:29 slef 3.8.x?
17:29 wahanui it has been said that 3.8.x is known to be unstable.
17:29 slef wahanui: forget 3.8.x
17:29 wahanui slef: I forgot 3.8.x
17:30 slef @later tell rangi would you like to fix the print message in[…]85;hb=3.8.x#l5242 without comment or shall I open a brown-paper-bag bug? ;)
17:30 huginn slef: The operation succeeded.
17:36 mtompset Still attaching script... however, bug 8517, jcamins
17:36 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=8517 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Script to automatically generate package lists
17:37 jcamins mtompset: I saw. :)
17:39 mtompset How do you obsolete an attachment without adding one?
17:39 jcamins bugzilla?
17:39 wahanui bugzilla is found at
17:39 jcamins No, that's not the link.
17:39 jcamins Bugs?
17:39 wahanui well, Bugs is found at Please fix any bugs you find. :) or reporting them is helpful, too.
17:39 jcamins No, that's not the link.
17:40 jcamins I don't remember exactly how.
17:40 jcamins You click on "Details," and then click a few more times.
17:40 jcamins There's a page on the wiki with instructions.
17:40 mtompset found it... thanks.
17:41 mtompset where is this going again? release tools?
17:42 jcamins mtompset: that's my thought.
17:42 jcamins This is a script that RMaints and RMs will want to run frequently.
17:43 jcamins I suppose we could also include it in install_misc, if you think end users are likely to need it.
17:44 mtompset well, I know we prefer Debian.
17:44 slef they will if they install from tar.gz
17:44 mtompset Yes.
17:44 mtompset Installing from .tar.gz will.
17:44 jcamins slef: but we'll have the generated files and instructions to use them.
17:44 mtompset I know we install for Ubuntu.
17:45 jcamins I guess the problem is that you don't know *which* packages you're missing using those files.
17:45 mtompset Yes, this generates things to add to the end of existing files as dependencies increase.
17:45 mtompset No, you don't.
17:45 mtompset Except the dpkg command will. :)
17:46 jcamins mtompset: my thought is it will be run prior to any release, so that any tarball will include up-to-date dependency lists.
17:46 mtompset for ubuntu and debian.
17:46 mtompset But what other OS'?
17:47 slef they splat their disk with cpan, probably :-/
17:47 jcamins mtompset: the script won't work with non-apt distros.
17:47 mtompset True.
17:47 slef but hey if it's rpm-based, their disk is chaos anyway ;)
17:47 mtompset slef: this script is intended to help ELIMINATE the use of CPAN.
17:48 slef mtompset: on debian-derived ones, for which I commend you.
17:48 jcamins slef: it'd be nice to be able to offer a list of dependencies for RPM-based distros, but I'm not sure there is an equivalent.
17:48 mtompset Actually, that's a good question...
17:48 mtompset I have access to a CentOS box...
17:48 mtompset is there an apt-file for it...
17:49 jcamins rpm -qf?
17:49 mtompset if we could come up with equivalent rpm-based commands...
17:49 mtompset we could make the script truly generic.
17:49 jcamins No, that won't work.
17:50 jcamins That only tells you if the file has already been installed, I think.
17:50 jcamins Oh, no, maybe I'm wrong.
17:52 jcamins Or yum provides
17:52 limon rpm -qa | grep somepkg
17:52 * jcamins will let you test it on  your CentOS box.
17:52 jcamins limon: the problem is we want to find a package that hasn't been installed yet on the basis of a file name.
17:53 limon rpm -qpR {.rpm-file}
17:53 mtompset well... library name BLAH::Blah
17:53 mtompset apt-file find
17:53 limon[…]s-a-rpm-file-has/
17:53 limon ?
17:54 jcamins limon: the goal is to generate the dependency list, given a list of Perl modules that are needed.
17:55 mtompset paste bot?
17:55 mtompset paste?
17:55 wahanui i heard paste was found at
17:55 pastebot "mtompset" at pasted "How we hunt in debian-systems" (30 lines) at
17:55 slef yeah you probably want to be looking at yum not rpm
17:56 slef but I rarely use rpm-based systems now (yippee! At last we are moving on!)
17:56 jcamins slef: that is good!
17:56 jcamins mtompset: yum provides seems to be equivalent to apt-file find
18:03 mtompset yes, but I need an equivalent to apt-file list
18:05 limon   (does that link work?)
18:05 jcamins I don't think RPMs have consistent package names.
18:06 wizzyrea1 joined #koha
18:07 mtompset rpm -q --filesbypkg sed-4.1.5-8.el5
18:08 jcamins Yay!
18:08 mtompset I'd have to loop through rpm -qa
18:08 mtompset But I think I might be able to hack something together.
18:08 jcamins This is not nearly as important as the deb-based script, but it'd be cool to have.
18:09 jcamins dcook would certainly be grateful.
18:10 mtompset and RPM-based folks aren't going to install apt-get (if they are smart)
18:10 mtompset so, I think a simple 'which apt-get'
18:10 mtompset will help me decide which method to use. :)
18:11 slef @marc 952
18:11 wahanui The 952 field is used by Koha to store item data in MARC21 and is described at[…]_fields_%289xx%29
18:11 huginn slef: unknown tag 952
18:18 slef how standardised are Authorized values? Can I rely on NOT_LOAN = 2 meaning staff collection, for example?
18:21 mtompset is there a way to tell tr to only translate the FIRST character that matches and then stop?
18:22 mtompset I want to take something like:
18:22 mtompset blah-blah               /usr/.....
18:22 jcamins I don't know. That's how sed works.
18:22 mtompset and turn it into:
18:22 mtompset blah-blah             :usr/...
18:25 jcamins I'd use sed -e 's#/#:#'
18:25 slef as long as you know blah-blah will never contain /
18:25 slef that seems good
18:25 jcamins Right.
18:25 mtompset it won't
18:25 mtompset blah-blah is the package name.
18:25 jcamins Otherwise, 's#\t/#\t:#'
18:27 mtompset oh that works splendidly!
18:28 mtompset for i in `rpm -qa`; do rpm -q --filesbypkg $i | grep "\.pm$" | sed -e 's#/#:#'; done
18:29 mtompset remove the whitespace with a "tr -d' '" and "tr -d'{tab}'"
18:30 mtompset and we're cooking with gas!
18:30 mtompset perl-Pod-Simple           :usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.8/Pod/
18:30 mtompset see? Isn't that nice?
18:30 slef it looks to me like itemtypes.notforloan is only checked if C4::Context->preference('item-level_itypes') is set :-/ but I'll just check CanBookBeIssued to make sure
18:31 slef mtompset: or change | sed -e 's#/#:#' to | sed -e 's#/#:#;s/[[:space:]]//g'
18:31 wahanui slef: that doesn't look right
18:31 mtompset I'm almost tempted to try to adapt the script for rpm-based OS' now. :)
18:31 wahanui joined #koha
18:32 slef I wonder what wahanui liked there.
18:32 mtompset ooooh. even nicer, slef
18:32 slef wahanui: are you OK?
18:32 wahanui no idea, slef
18:32 slef wahanui: figures
18:32 wahanui I like *your* figure
18:32 jcamins mtompset: go for it!
18:32 slef wahanui: pervert!
18:32 wahanui slef: sorry...
18:32 mtompset maybe tomorrow afternoon.
18:33 mtompset I mean this afternoon.
18:34 mtompset I suppose I'll just disallow --list-dir, --dist, and --release until RPM versions.
18:34 mtompset ^until^under.
18:35 limon is wahanui gaining some modest measure of intelligence?
18:35 mtompset wahanui: are you intelligent?
18:35 wahanui mtompset: i haven't a clue
18:35 * mtompset grins.
18:36 cait slef: Ithink you can not really rely on it :(
18:36 cait slef: maybe make it configurable? the numeric value to be used for feature x?
18:36 limon allll righy. disregard previous query
18:36 cait slef: sys pref or the like
18:37 jcamins cait: I'm pretty sure it's already hardcoded.
18:37 cait staff collection?
18:37 cait I am not aware on any functionality there
18:37 cait but I might be wrong
18:38 cait I think only on order -1 has some
18:38 jcamins Ah, yeah, not staff collection.
18:38 jcamins But on order.
18:38 jcamins And not for loan.
18:38 wahanui somebody said not for loan was unset
18:38 cait but you never know with Koha :)
18:38 jcamins True.
18:38 limon mtompset: do I remember that you are from Canada?
18:38 cait but it's an optional value at installation... so was thinking that libraries could have used it for something else
18:38 cait I mean you can't be sure sadly
18:38 Oak night guys. night cait.
18:38 cait night Oak :)
18:38 mtompset Yes.
18:39 jcamins cait: yeah, you're right. I was thinking of not for loan and on order, which mean the same thing no matter what text you put in.
18:39 limon The Missouri State Library has taken note of some images of a library in Calgary, and passed the link to me knowing my interest.
18:40 slef cait: yeah I think I'll not rely on it.
18:40 cait in one of our libraries I have added more values, pretty much everything >0 works the same I think - but again, not sure of hidden features
18:40 slef thanks
18:40 limon[…]ningspacetoolkit/   <also a couple from Edinburgh>
18:42 martian523 joined #koha
18:42 mtompset Well, I don't know... should I stay awake for another 1:20 to watch opening ceremonies?
18:42 martian523 hi, i have question about marc display
18:43 mtompset Or sleep, because the Mountain Dew has worn off?
18:43 martian523 can koha show tag 880 instead of 245?
18:43 mtompset Have a great day (24 hour period), folks.
18:43 cait martian523: koha does show 880 fields
18:43 cait but not instead
18:43 cait besides
18:44 martian523 instead of manually copy and pasting 880 fields to 245, 250...etc.
18:44 cait so if you have a 880 for 245 in hebrew and a  245 with the transliteration, both show
18:44 * mtompset waves
18:44 cait if you download the record as marc you can see how it's cataloged
18:45 cait and it will only work in xslt displays of staff and opac so far
18:45 martian523 what i mean is i want the native characters to show in catalog instead of what's shown on marc
18:45 martian523 am i making sense here, sorry if i'm not
18:45 jcamins martian523: that is not possible.
18:46 slef cait: koha could show 880 instead of 245 if you edit xslt, couldn't it? And you'd need to update the indexing and so on... sounds like a big job
18:47 jcamins slef: massive job.
18:47 cait slef: it could display instead, yes, that's probably not so hard even
18:47 cait the problem is the indexing
18:48 cait you will have to use dom indexing to make it work right
18:48 jcamins You'd need DOM+ICU.
18:48 cait because only indexing 880 will throw all information together
18:48 cait true
18:48 martian523 let's say, the title is in chinese, however, in marc 245 is the transliteration, the actual chinese title is in 880 field
18:48 cait for hfjs we copy information into specific 9xx fields to make the indexing a bit smarter with grs
18:49 cait martian523: what you could also do is catalog in  245 directly...
18:49 cait I think for search and if you don't do transliterations at all that would work
18:49 martian523 I would like the library catalog to show the chinese characters instead of the transliteration
18:49 cait but jcamins will tell you perhaps that it's wrong doing that, I am not sure :)
18:49 jcamins No, you *should* catalog directly into 245.
18:49 cait but chinese also reads left to right, so it would not be bad for display at least
18:50 cait ah :)
18:50 jcamins martian523: to do that you will need a script to transfer the data from 880 to 245.
18:51 martian523 however, other libraries, let's say fuller seminary library, their marc view for 245 is transliteration, 880 in native character, but the title shown on library catalog is in the native language
18:52 martian523 so i thought there's a way in koha that can show 880 fields instead of 245 fields
18:52 jcamins martian523: they had to customize their OPAC.
18:52 cait martian523: you can do that, newer versions make it even easier
18:52 martian523 would that be a super big project
18:53 cait hae you tested some searches ?
18:53 cait in the fuller catalog? search is really the harder part
18:53 cait and if you get the opac deatail and staff results right, it will still be 245 showing up in the notices
18:53 jcamins You could modify it to do that, but I wouldn't recommend it.
18:53 cait and as a short title on other pages in Koha
18:53 cait using 245 directly will save you headache
18:54 jcamins Agreed.
18:54 martian523 well, since all patrons for my library are chinese, they would prefer to read and search everything in chinese
18:54 jcamins martian523: then don't use 880s.
18:57 jcamins martian523: regardless how you do this, it is going to take some programming. My recommendation would be to use vernacular script directly in 245 (etc.), so that everything remains consistent.
18:57 * oleonard didn't know schuster's library had gone independent
18:58 oleonard Good for them
18:59 cait :)
18:59 jcamins oleonard: yup.
19:00 cait Karam++ :)
19:00 oleonard ?
19:01 jcamins oleonard: Karam Qubsi has taken the initiative to make the manual translatable.
19:06 cait mainly happening on the translate list :)
19:07 cait but it's really cool :)
19:11 liw jcamins, both lenny and etch are quite old by now, so I'd be a bit surprised if Koha .debs installed on them
19:13 jcamins Actually, probably the version of Perl in Lenny is too old.
19:22 libsysguy for POD documentation, is it better to put the POD above the function or at the bottom of the file?
19:23 jcamins Keep the POD as close to what it documents as possible.
19:23 libsysguy ok
19:23 libsysguy thats the way I like it
19:23 jcamins Please refer to TAOCP for justification. :P
19:23 jcamins Also to cure insomnia. :)
19:23 libsysguy but that means I'll have to go fix Koha::Calendar :-/
19:23 libsysguy heh yayy documentation
19:24 libsysguy actually im getting my new book "Perl best practices" in today
19:24 jcamins libsysguy: you probably won't get dinged by QA for a single oversight in where you put POD.
19:24 jcamins Not including tests for all functionality, on the other hand, is an issue.
19:24 jcamins Biiiig issue.
19:25 jcamins If code coverage isn't darn close to 100%, that's bad.
19:25 * libsysguy is already rewriting the test this thing
19:25 libsysguy its a beast
19:27 cait libsysguy: give it cookies?
19:28 libsysguy im not sure cookies would appease this monster cait
19:28 cait hm
19:28 cait whip?
19:28 cait whip and cookies.
19:28 libsysguy sounds kinky
19:28 cait it's a saying in german
19:29 cait i think expressing a mix of being nice and being strict works best
19:29 libsysguy haha i did call "use strict"
19:29 libsysguy :p
19:30 cait leo suggests it's  the carrot and the stick in english?
19:30 libsysguy yeah carrots and sticks
19:30 libsysguy stinking Americans get no cookies
19:30 libsysguy :'(
19:30 liw they need to have a shower firswt
19:31 cait lol
19:31 libsysguy heh
19:31 oleonard whip and cookies:[…]_cream_cookie.JPG
19:32 cait heh
19:32 * jcamins calls it a day.
19:33 jcamins I'll be back later, I suspect.
19:35 cait bye jcamins_away
19:54 * oleonard would like someone to please pick the winner of Bug 6209
19:54 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6209 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, In Discussion , Standardize on one javascript library for client-side form validation
19:57 cait hm
19:57 cait the best one?
20:03 * oleonard waves good-weekend to #koha
20:06 trea joined #koha
20:08 limon left #koha
20:08 trea is there anything required to enable ILS-DI in koha besides setting the ILS-DI syspref to "Enable" ?
20:09 cait not sure, maybe give it the allowed ip addresses?
20:10 trea yea, i'm wondering if it requires one defined
20:12 cait I am not sure too, but maybe worth a test? or a look at the code
20:26 wizzyrea od.
20:28 gmc_in_exile joined #koha
20:28 wizzyrea lol
20:28 cait gmc_in_exile: oh?
20:28 gmc_in_exile some linodes in their Atlanta data center are having network connectivity issues
20:28 wizzyrea oh no
20:29 gmc_in_exile affecting huginn (and my IRC proxy)
20:29 wizzyrea noooo
20:29 * wizzyrea wonders about bugzilla
20:29 gmc_in_exile different datacenter
20:29 wizzyrea ah it's ok
20:29 wizzyrea cool
20:31 huginn joined #koha
20:31 gmc_in_exile @quote random
20:31 huginn gmc_in_exile: Quote #150: "<libsysguy> jcamins is the wizard that forges queries in the deep fires of zebra" (added by wizzyrea at 03:07 PM, August 30, 2011)
20:31 wahanui i already had it that way, huginn.
20:32 libsysguy hehe
20:32 gmc_in_exile jcamins?
20:32 wahanui somebody said jcamins was A-Grade developper on Koha willing to rewrite it from top to bottom. Good Luck jcamins
20:32 cait @quite random
20:32 huginn cait: I've exhausted my database of quotes
20:33 cait @quote random
20:33 huginn cait: Quote #134: "<cait> birthday wishes go over crazy bugs :)" (added by gmcharlt at 06:49 PM, May 20, 2011)
20:36 gmcharlt joined #koha
20:37 gmc_in_exile gmcharlt: at last, you're back
20:37 gmc_in_exile left #koha
20:43 wizzyrea :D
20:45 JesseM_away left #koha
21:01 cait night #koha :)
21:07 trea left #koha
21:11 wizzyrea haha tim berners-lee was just in the olympic opening ceremonies
21:11 wizzyrea awesome.
21:42 rangi Did u see Mr bean?
21:42 jcamins_away Mr. Bean?
21:43 rangi Yep he was playing keyboard for chariots of fire
21:44 rangi James bond was there earlier too
21:44 jcamins Heh.
21:44 rangi It's been pretty fun watch
21:45 * jcamins is trying to decide how critical blue cheese is to buffalo tofu.
21:46 jcamins Thoughts?
21:47 rangi Hmm isn't the cheese what makes it buffalo?
21:47 jcamins I thought it was the spicy marinade.
21:48 rangi Could be
21:48 rangi It's a uniquely American thing
21:48 jcamins It's a tasty American thing.
21:52 rangi Here comes the countries
21:52 rangi Greece first as always
21:54 rangi 200 of them this will take a while
21:59 edveal left #koha
22:32 drojf where is supposed to be? it is not found by plack
22:32 drojf in master that is
22:33 jcamins installer
22:33 jcamins It's a problem with your plackup script.
22:33 jcamins You need use lib("/home/drojf/kohaclone/installer");
22:34 drojf ah, cool. thanks
22:38 drojf jcamins++ # that helped
22:38 jcamins Yay!
22:47 martian523 joined #koha
22:48 martian523 hi again
22:48 martian523 is there a way for koha to search for both 245 fields and 880 fields
22:49 jcamins At some point there will be, but not right now.
22:50 martian523 ok....
22:50 jcamins (the problem is one of time... several people would be capable of implementing that feature, but we all need to make sure that we're spending our time on the projects that pay best)
22:51 jcamins And unfortunately, when I say "it's easy to do!" I don't actually mean "I could be done in time for dinner." ;)
22:51 martian523 i see, thank you
22:51 martian523 but it would super help for non english titles
22:52 jcamins It certainly would.
22:52 martian523 instead of replacing 245 fields with 880 fields manually
22:53 jcamins And some of my clients have records with vernacular scripts, so it's possible one day one of them will be interested in paying for the time it would take me to implement it.
22:53 jcamins Manually?
22:53 jcamins Don't do it manually.
22:53 jcamins Write a script to do it for you.
22:53 martian523 how do you do that?  as you can see i'm not an IT person
22:54 jcamins Ah.
22:54 martian523 it would help me if you can give me some advice or a link to a help page
22:54 * jcamins wasn't aware of that, actually.
22:54 * jcamins thought you were the IT person in a library without a librarian.
22:55 martian523 it's actually the other way, i'm the librarian
22:55 martian523 trying to help the IT team to solve issues
22:55 jcamins That changes my advice somewhat.
22:56 martian523 IT team is also new to koha
22:56 martian523 sorry, all along you thought i was IT, you must have thought i was a stupid IT person. )
22:56 martian523 =)
22:57 jcamins martian523: it did cross my mind, but since you were clearly trying, I tried not to be too short with you.
22:57 martian523 hahaha so sorry
22:57 jcamins No problem.
22:57 jcamins So, here are your options:
22:57 jcamins Actually, let me back up.
22:57 jcamins How many records do you have?
22:57 JesseM joined #koha
22:58 martian523 well, let me tell you what we have now
22:58 JesseM I have a question. How do we set Koha so staff and patrons can place holds on lost items?
22:59 jcamins JesseM: there's a syspref for that. Something about lost.
22:59 martian523 we migrated about 20000 titles to koha, half of them are chinese titles, those are ok,
22:59 JesseM or is that possible at all
22:59 jcamins Do a search for it?
22:59 jcamins That was supposed to be a period not a question mark.
22:59 JesseM thx Jared
23:00 martian523 however, for new titles, we're trying to save time and download marc records from targets
23:00 jcamins No, not lost.
23:00 * jcamins tries again.
23:00 martian523 those marc records are actually correct ones compare to our migrated records
23:01 martian523 do you understand where i'm trying to go?
23:01 jcamins JesseM: actually, I was thinking about AllowHoldsOnDamagedItems.
23:01 jcamins martian523: yup.
23:01 martian523 thanks
23:01 jcamins I am pondering your situation.
23:01 JesseM Thats what I was just going to ask you
23:01 jcamins JesseM: I think you might be able to place holds on lost items if you have that set to allow.
23:02 martian523 these correct marcs have the correct 245, 240, 260, etc. fields and 880 fields
23:02 jcamins martian523: how many books do you add in a month?
23:03 jcamins martian523: also, my suggestion to write a script to change the records won't help at all.
23:04 martian523 plus for the migrated books, we will eventually want to import the correct marc from targets
23:04 jcamins So, let's say "a lot."
23:04 martian523 ok
23:05 jcamins Unfortunately, this greatly curtails your options.
23:05 jcamins Basically, you need indexing to handle the 880s.
23:05 martian523 i mean, if it requires a script, i can ask the IT person to write it if he understands what i'm saying
23:06 jcamins No, my suggestion to write a script was based on the assumption that the problem was the records you had migrated.
23:06 jcamins In fact, the migrated records are not a problem, it's the non-migrated records that are a problem.
23:06 martian523 yes, the newly downloaded marc
23:07 martian523 i don't understand how other libraries do it
23:08 martian523 as i mentioned earlier this morning, i import marc from fuller, their record has both 245 and 880
23:09 martian523 however, they can search both fields, whereas koha cannot
23:09 jcamins There aren't many Koha libraries using original script.
23:09 jcamins Those that do mostly only search transliterations anyway.
23:09 jcamins Right. Because someone paid for that ILS to have that feature.
23:09 jcamins In this case, they're using Worldcat.
23:10 jcamins This is where the open source nature of Koha comes in: you can easily hire someone to add this ability to Koha.
23:10 jcamins Or, if your IT department is comfortable, they can do it themselves.
23:10 jcamins (comfortable doing it)
23:10 martian523 so i guess it's pretty difficult
23:11 jcamins Well... yes and no?
23:11 jcamins (helpful, huh?)
23:11 jcamins On the one hand, it'd take a decent amount of time to do.
23:12 jcamins On the other, it's now possible to implement in Koha in a straightforward way.
23:12 jcamins Which is what open source is about, really: if it doesn't work for you, you can make it work.
23:14 martian523 so what should i suggest my IT to do?
23:14 jcamins Personally, I would recommend you see if you can find money in the budget to hire someone to do the development.
23:15 martian523 talking about budget, that's a no
23:15 martian523 well, actually, we have someone hired especially to work on koha
23:16 jcamins I can tell you which files you're going to need to modify, but explaining exactly how it works goes beyond what I can do.
23:16 jcamins There are three files that will be involved: etc/zebradb/marc_defs/marc21/bib​lios/biblio-zebra-indexdefs.xsl etc/zebradb/marc_defs/marc21/bi​blios/biblio-koha-indexdefs.xsl and etc/zebradb/xsl/koha-indexdefs-to-zebra.xsl
23:16 martian523 wok
23:16 martian523 ok
23:17 jcamins The first file is generated from the second two.
23:17 martian523 i'll copy this whole chat so he can read it
23:17 jcamins In order to not lose your changes at the first upgrade you do, you'll want to modify those second two, and submit the change back to the community.
23:17 jcamins Oh, and he needs to use git for development.
23:18 jcamins git?
23:18 wahanui it has been said that git is[…]Control_Using_Git
23:18 martian523 although i have no idea what you're talking about, but keep going, i'm sure he'll understand
23:18 jcamins ^^ that page is an important one to read.
23:18 jcamins I've pretty much finished.
23:18 jcamins Those files are self-documenting to the extent that they are documented.
23:18 martian523 thanks
23:18 martian523 i'll see if he understands
23:19 martian523 i think this is one step closer
23:19 jcamins Good luck.
23:19 jcamins If I ever have a chance, I hope to work on this, but, as I said, don't count on it being any time soon.
23:19 jcamins Work that I'm getting paid to do has to come first. :/
23:20 martian523 is there a way to save this chat?
23:20 jcamins You're using mibbit?
23:20 martian523 yes
23:20 jcamins Actually, silly question.
23:20 jcamins logs?
23:20 wahanui logs is
23:20 jcamins ^^ there you go. :)
23:20 martian523 haha
23:20 martian523 thanks
23:21 jcamins You're welcome.
23:21 jcamins Good luck.
23:30 JesseM left #koha
23:39 mtompset joined #koha

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