IRC log for #koha, 2011-09-05

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:20 Callender joined #koha
00:23 druthb joined #koha
00:23 druthb o/
00:55 lastnode hi #koha
00:56 Irma joined #koha
01:07 druthb left #koha
01:21 jenkins_koha Starting build 41 for job Koha_3.4.x (previous build: SUCCESS)
01:45 jcamins_away left #koha
02:02 jenkins_koha Project Koha_3.4.x build #41: SUCCESS in 40 mn: http://jenkins.koha-community.[…]ob/Koha_3.4.x/41/
02:02 jenkins_koha * oleonard: Fix for Bug 2539 - kohaspsuggest is deprecated, notes outmoded
02:02 jenkins_koha * frederick.capovilla: Bug 6479 Converts all the serialseq variables to UTF-8.
02:02 jenkins_koha * Chris Cormack: Bug 6834 : Removing last of the $template->{param_map}
02:02 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=2539 normal, PATCH-Sent, ---, oleonard, ASSIGNED , kohaspsuggest is deprecated, notes outmoded
02:02 jenkins_koha * henridamien.laurent: bug 6834 followup removing param_map
02:02 jenkins_koha * Katrin.Fischer.83: Bug 6595:[ENH] [SIGNED-OFF] Add German translation of purchase suggestion mails
02:02 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6479 normal, PATCH-Sent, ---, fcapovilla, NEW , Encoding problem in "recievedlist" when the numbering formula contains utf-8 characters
02:02 jenkins_koha * Katrin.Fischer.83: Bug 6595: [ENH] [SIGNED-OFF] Fixing German translation and address formatting (HOLD_PRINT)
02:02 jenkins_koha * alex.arnaud: bug 4966: Add a button in for confirm end receiving
02:02 jenkins_koha * nengard: bug4966 - follow up to 4966 changes language from 'end' to 'finish'
02:02 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6834 major, PATCH-Sent, ---, chris, NEW , $template->{param_map} is deprecated with the introduction of Template::Toolkit
02:02 jenkins_koha * alex.arnaud: Bug 4966 - follow up - add xhtml closure for input tags
02:02 jenkins_koha * oleonard: Fix for Bug 6768, Two unused include files can be removed
02:02 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6595 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, katrin.fischer, ASSIGNED , Add German translation for purchase suggestion mails
02:02 jenkins_koha * oleonard: Fix for Bug 5028 - Remove references to
02:02 jenkins_koha * christophe.croullebois: Bug 6121: Holds awaiting pickup
02:02 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4966 major, PATCH-Sent, ---, alex.arnaud, NEW , no way to finish receiving
02:02 jenkins_koha * paul.poulain: Bug 6121: follow-up = using overloo instead of reserveloo
02:02 jenkins_koha * magnus: Bug 6516 - Make borrowernumber of staff user configurable in koha-create
02:02 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6768 minor, PATCH-Sent, ---, oleonard, ASSIGNED , Two unused include files can be removed: and
02:02 jenkins_koha * magnus: Bug 4877 [ENH] - Update man page for koha-create
02:02 jenkins_koha * robin: Bug 4877 [ENH] - [SIGNED-OFF] more man page improvements
02:02 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5028 normal, PATCH-Sent, ---, oleonard, ASSIGNED , Remove references to
02:02 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6121 minor, PATCH-Sent, ---, kyle.m.hall, NEW , waitingreserves: branchname instead of branch code
02:02 jenkins_koha * Chris Cormack: Updating history and about file
02:02 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6516 normal, PATCH-Sent, ---, magnus, ASSIGNED , koha-create makes assumptions about borrowernumber of staff user
02:02 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4877 enhancement, P1, ---, magnus, NEW , koha-* scripts have no manual pages
02:03 Callender left #koha
02:13 huginn New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 6732] Missing Title for Manual Invoice <[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6732>
02:49 huginn New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 6665] advancedMARCeditor preference not functioning <[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6665>
02:53 wizzyrea_away is now known as wizzyrea
02:54 rangi heya wizzyrea
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03:06 wizzyrea hi there
03:14 wizzyrea is now known as wizzyrea_away
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03:47 wizzyrea_away is now known as wizzyrea
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04:12 lastnode hello friends
04:12 lastnode anyone here?
04:13 eythian Nope.
04:13 eythian cait: it's very early in the morning. Go back to sleep.
04:15 lastnode just wondering if any of you will be kohacon
04:16 lastnode i didnt realise it's in India, adn even though I'm very new to the community, it's tempting, seeinghow close it is
04:16 eythian I'm going
04:18 cait hehe
04:18 cait nope
04:18 cait hi all, hi robin, hi lastnode
04:19 lastnode i dont think id have much to contribute, eythian, but seeing ill probably be running koha for my school for a while
04:20 lastnode couple of years at least, do you think it will be worth my while?
04:20 rangi kohacon clashes with a couple of other conferences id already said yes to, so not me
04:20 eythian yeah, definitely
04:20 lastnode im tempted because it's just a hop, step anda jump for me
04:20 eythian You're likely to learn a lot
04:20 eythian and meet people, find contacts, that sort of thing.
04:20 lastnode i can prolly find accomodation too, so it will just be plane ticket
04:20 lastnode and food, which is uber cheap
04:20 * lastnode is seriously tempted
04:21 cait in my experience it's even worth it when it'son the other side of the world :)
04:22 lastnode id feel like a bit of newb though
04:22 lastnode ive been running koha for all of 3 weeks
04:22 rangi its mostly for newbs
04:22 lastnode and not even production, yet
04:22 rangi the developer conference afterwards is for the more experienced users
04:22 lastnode speaking of whic, rangi, can you edit[…]on_Debian_Squeeze
04:23 lastnode im not sure if the debian scripts are supposed to do this
04:23 eythian do what?
04:23 lastnode but i needed on 3 recent squeeze koha installs, to 'a2enmod rewrite'
04:23 lastnode because mod rewrite was not enabled
04:23 eythian oh, yeah
04:23 rangi lastnode: its a wiki, anyone can edit it ;)
04:23 lastnode and it's not in thehowto
04:23 eythian it's kinda by design.
04:23 lastnode oh
04:23 eythian although it _should_ be in the wiki
04:23 lastnode shall i add it?
04:23 eythian yes
04:24 rangi yes please, you will need to sign up, and confirm your email (to stop spammers)
04:24 lastnode wow your captcha is throwing me, guys
04:24 lastnode 90 - 6?
04:24 wahanui 84
04:24 lastnode im an English teacher damnit
04:24 lastnode oh thanks wahanui
04:24 eythian wahanui is a robot :)
04:24 rangi but its great to get more people editing the wiki
04:24 eythian hence, good at math
04:24 eythian I want to make koha-create detect if rewrite is on, and if not have it abort.
04:24 lastnode i have heard
04:24 lastnode oh, you're the debian guy eythian?
04:24 eythian but it's against debian policy to actually change it.
04:24 eythian jup
04:25 lastnode im going to add it under QUick Start just after the msyql server apt-get
04:25 eythian sure
04:26 cait @wunder Konstanz
04:26 huginn cait: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 16.5�C (6:24 AM CEST on September 05, 2011). Conditions: Light Rain. Humidity: 95%. Dew Point: 16.0�C. Pressure: 29.91 in 1012.8 hPa (Steady).
04:26 eythian hey, if you're an English teacher, you'd be good at writing man pages for the commands ;)
04:26 Technicus joined #koha
04:27 lastnode sudo a2enmod rewrite <-- syntax is correct?
04:27 cait hi Technicus
04:27 lastnode eythian: i can certainly try, ive contributed to foss projects before
04:27 eythian yep, that's it
04:27 lastnode <-- former project, now dead
04:27 Technicus Hello!
04:28 lastnode hi Technicus
04:28 eythian lastnode: well, if you're keen, bug 4877 is where we do that.
04:28 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4877 enhancement, P1, ---, magnus, NEW , koha-* scripts have no manual pages
04:29 lastnode actually eythian
04:29 lastnode sure eythian let me haev a look at that soetime
04:29 eythian oh handy
04:29 lastnode eythian: it was wactually written for peeps in #ubuntu for support
04:30 lastnode but canonical developed a project that replacedit
04:30 lastnode or were, anyway
04:30 eythian ah right
04:30 cait Technicus: where are you from? :)
04:31 eythian cait: $20 on Wisconson
04:31 lastnode eythian:[…]on_Debian_Squeeze
04:31 eythian lastnode: looks good
04:31 lastnode eythian: is having packages for ubuntu a goal of the packagers atm
04:31 cait ah :)
04:31 lastnode ?
04:32 rangi lastnode: like this
04:32 eythian Debian, and Ubuntu by proxy. Eventually yeah, but there's a lot of work to be done first. In particular, cleaning up of copyrights and so forth. But also getting packages for languages etc.
04:32 lastnode oh right
04:32 rangi the main goal is get the packages into debian proper, then they will get it into ubuntu, but for now there are packages for natty at those ppas
04:33 Technicus cait: I am right here.
04:33 lastnode right
04:33 lastnode do you have a sponsor in mind for debian, rangi? a DD or a DM?
04:34 Technicus Any suggestions for software that could be used in a bike shop?  Keeping track of inventory and jobs?
04:34 rangi yeah we have a few dd at catalyst, and there are a few others involved in koha
04:34 lastnode neat :)
04:34 lastnode i look forward to seeing koha in main in wheezy
04:34 rangi but the main thing is sorting out the copyright headers and tidying up the packages a bit more, they are pretty close
04:35 lastnode sweet
04:35 lastnode ill def havea look at the man pages when i can, eythian
04:35 eythian that's one of the things that needs to be done for getting in Debian ;)
04:35 lastnode though iev never written anything as srs as man pages before
04:35 lastnode as we all know, man pages are srs bznz
04:35 eythian also, writing man pages is a handy skill if you don't know how already.
04:36 lastnode i wrote some man  pages for that project i linked you to iirc
04:36 lastnode but it was a tiny project
04:36 eythian ah yeah. Well, this is just a number of tools, each of which is pretty small itself.
04:36 lastnode but in terms of reach, koha is huge
04:37 lastnode which is what i meant, really. ill need to do some reading before i begin, but ill def get down to it after term starts tomorrow
04:37 lastnode till then im just focusing on hardening the vps i haev setup and then adding 100 books as a pilot
04:37 lastnode and getting the librarian familiarised with koha
04:37 eythian cool.
04:38 lastnode btw im not sure if it's useful, but i ran into this bug
04:38 lastnode running koha remove
04:38 lastnode[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6416
04:38 huginn Bug 6416: normal, P5, ---, robin, NEW , koha-remove fails when dropping user
04:38 lastnode do welink to bugs fromteh  wiki?it might be useful. i tore my hair out for a while before googling and realising it was a bug
04:38 eythian yeah, that's a weird one. I've not been able to reproduce it.
04:39 eythian It's fine to link to bugs.
04:39 eythian A "known or suspected issues" thing would probably be helpful.
04:40 lastnode ok
04:40 lastnode i ran into it, so ill try and reporduce it on my vm, eythian
04:40 eythian cool. A fix wouldn't go astry, either ;)
04:40 lastnode haha, ill have a look
04:40 lastnode but im not a great coder
04:40 eythian I'm not confident just putting in 'localhost' is ideal, especially if you're using a remote server.
04:41 eythian hmm
04:41 eythian I bet it needs a 'like'
04:41 lastnode btw koha will eventually replace koha-common?
04:41 lastnode package i mean,the koha package
04:41 eythian not really
04:41 eythian What I want is for the koha package to be a pre-setup thing
04:41 lastnode at the moment, koha-common is preferred. this implies that in teh future it will change
04:41 eythian so, you install koha and it all works.
04:41 lastnode ok
04:42 eythian as if you did 'koha-create --createdb koha'
04:42 lastnode right
04:42 eythian but that turned out to be harder than I thought.
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04:47 lastnode on a koha production box
04:47 lastnode is it recommended i run iptables
04:48 lastnode adn filter out everything except ssh and 80/8080 (I run intranet on 8080)
04:48 lastnode do we have security recommendations?
04:48 eythian that's standard good practice
04:49 lastnode ok
04:49 eythian the packages do fairly good security as it is, user separation and so on
04:49 lastnode also, i setup koha as root because i hadntcreated a non-root ssh user yet.
04:49 lastnode there's no difference in going back
04:49 lastnode and runnin geveryting as sudo again right
04:49 lastnode (afteri have a non-root ssh user setupo)
04:50 lastnode as in, there are no non-root commands in thesetup process, right?
04:51 eythian no, completely no difference
04:51 eythian all the koha stuff runs as "koha_*instance*" anyway.
04:51 eythian that's right
04:51 lastnode cool
04:51 lastnode sudo is just so people wont rm -rfrandom stuff
04:51 lastnode i guess
04:51 lastnode which i actually did, as root i rm -rf /etc/koha/ instead of /etc/koha/sitename
04:52 lastnode speaking of which, in thatintsance i did an apt-get purge
04:52 eythian heh yes, it makes that harder.
04:52 lastnode and i reinsttalled, but /etc/koha never came back
04:52 lastnode during the reinstall
04:52 eythian that seems surprising to me
04:52 lastnode is tehre something else i should have done?
04:52 lastnode in my paranoia, i nowhave my 10gig main fs on my vps
04:52 lastnode cloned
04:53 lastnode so if i do a foobar like that, illjust restore
04:53 eythian not sure. I think there is something that that can be done to force it to restore conf-files. I would have thought a purge would allow them to come back though
04:53 lastnode ok
04:54 eythian (/etc stuff is handled differently, as it's expected that the user'll modify it)
04:54 lastnode ok
04:55 lastnode eythian: what is teh recommended backup procedure for koha atm
04:56 lastnode if i write a bash script, should i make it run koha-dump, then grab the files and scp them somewhere
04:56 lastnode or is tehre another method?
04:56 eythian the next release will have bug 6275 included. This means you can just grab them from /var/spool/koha
04:56 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6275 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, robin, RESOLVED FIXED, Automated backups of data and config
04:56 lastnode ok
04:56 lastnode and apt-get upgrade will pull the new release in?
04:56 eythian but yeah, for now just have a cron job that runs koha-dump
04:56 eythian yep
04:57 lastnode eythian: also, i notice in /etc/apache2/sites-enabled/mykohasite
04:57 lastnode it has #transferlog and #rewritelog commented out for both virtualhosts
04:57 eythian yeah
04:57 eythian people want different setups, so I just have a default that can be edited.
04:57 lastnode (opac and intranet). and /var/log/apache2/access.log doesnt show hits to those sites
04:58 lastnode ok, so by default, transfer log is turned off?
04:58 lastnode adn i turn it on by uncommenting?
04:58 eythian no, by default it ends up under virtualhosts_access.log or something along those lines
04:58 lastnode oh, at whatpath?
04:58 eythian /var/log/apache2 I think
04:58 eythian but yeah, I usually turn it on
05:01 lastnode oh yeah it's tehre, eythian thanks
05:01 lastnode and there is a chinese ip who has hit :8080
05:01 eythian it'll be a bot
05:01 lastnode only 2 people know this VPS exists lol
05:01 lastnode yeah, spam bots?
05:02 lastnode i guess they just scan linode subnets
05:02 eythian probably
05:02 eythian yeah, that'd be likely.
05:03 lastnode - - [03/Sep/2011:23:16:18 -0400] "GET //jmx-console/HtmlAdaptor HTTP/1.1" 302 202 "-" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows 98)"
05:03 lastnode it's looking for some JBOSS resource
05:04 lastnode anyway yeah, gotta keep an eye on the access log. if i enable #TransferLog for both vhosts, eythian, it will also log to other_vhosts_access.log?
05:10 eythian don't think so, no
05:10 eythian you can probably tell it to log to two places
05:10 eythian (actually, to be fair, I haven't checked to see if it logs to both or now)
05:11 eythian it appears it doesn't
05:11 lastnode ok, thanks eythian
05:11 lastnode i think having it in one access log makes sense for me
05:11 lastnode so the default option works fine
05:11 lastnode eythian++
05:12 eythian I like to split it up when I'm hosting more than one on a server, just to see what sort of use each one is getting.
05:12 eythian But it's obviously up to what you want to do with it :)
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05:15 cait ok, it stopped raining :)
05:16 cait time to go
05:16 cait left #koha
05:17 lastnode eythian: the configs themselves, like System PReferences, Libraries Items etc. are all in the db right?
05:17 eythian yep
05:17 lastnode just trying to understand when i run koha-dump
05:18 lastnode which parts go to .sql.gz and which go to .tar.gz
05:18 eythian the .sql.gz is the most important, the rest can be recreated without too much difficulty.
05:18 eythian but having both of them means you can do a really fast recovery
05:18 eythian as it won't even need to reindex zebra
05:19 lastnode ok
05:19 lastnode recovery process is
05:19 lastnode koha-create --createb samedatabasename
05:19 lastnode and hten koha-restore samedatabasename
05:19 lastnode right?
05:19 lastnode assuming i ddid koha-dump samedatabasename on a remote box
05:20 eythian no, for using koha-restore, just do koha-restore instance.sql.gz instance.tar.gz (or similar)
05:20 eythian it'll do the create etc. itself.
05:20 lastnode oh, right
05:20 lastnode gotcha
05:20 eythian tbh, I usually find myself just using the db dump and importing from it.
05:20 lastnode i think someone toldme otherwise here a while back
05:20 lastnode yeah as in using mysql itself?
05:20 eythian yeah
05:20 lastnode what does tar.gz have though
05:20 lastnode just zebra indexes?
05:20 eythian[…]ages#koha-restore
05:21 eythian the contents of /var/koha/instancename and /etc/koha/instancename
05:21 lastnode oh, right.thanks eythian
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05:42 kf good morning #koha
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06:05 alex_a hello all
06:06 kf hi alex_a
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06:07 lastnode hi kf hi alex_a
06:07 lastnode o/
06:08 alex_a hi lastnode
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06:47 reiveune hello
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06:54 lastnode hi reiveune
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07:12 hdl hi
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07:25 lastnode hi hdl
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07:41 kf_away hm
07:42 kf_away is someone aware of a problem with adding items from staged marc import?
07:42 kf_away the report tells me 13 items were added, but I see none of them on my records
07:47 kf_away foudn the problem...
07:47 kf_away a problem in my data, but I wonder why it said successful
07:49 lastnode kf_away: could it have something to do with this bug? -[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6713
07:49 huginn Bug 6713: critical, PATCH-Sent, ---, chris, ASSIGNED , marc import not matching
07:49 kf_away lastnode: thx :)
07:50 kf_away lastnode: I was not using matching rules, so no. I had the branch code wrong in my data, trying again now
07:50 lastnode ok
07:50 lastnode you might want to to file a bug repor then, kf_away?
07:50 kf_away yeah, will try to
07:50 kf_away have to finish this tests first
07:53 rangi evening
07:56 kf_away hi rangi
08:01 kf_away @wunder Konstanz
08:01 huginn kf_away: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 15.2�C (9:59 AM CEST on September 05, 2011). Conditions: Light Rain. Humidity: 93%. Dew Point: 14.0�C. Pressure: 30.00 in 1015.8 hPa (Rising).
08:08 kf_away Checked out to Benutzer A : due 26/09/2011 On hold for Benutzer B expected at BSZ-Bibliothek since 05/09/2011 ?
08:15 kf_away does this make sense?
08:27 rangi yep
08:28 kf_away ok
08:28 kf_away I don't understand the expected part
08:28 kf_away because it's still checked out and the due_date is 26th
08:29 kf_away so why would it be expected to be at the bsz-bibliothek since 5th?
08:31 rangi because it was marked as on transfer to there on the 5th
08:31 rangi but someone then issued it out after that
08:31 kf_away hm
08:31 kf_away doesn't make sense to me
08:31 kf_away my item was not on transfer
08:32 rangi it was marked waiting on the 5th
08:32 kf_away hm
08:32 rangi so was returned then
08:32 kf_away still doesn't make sense
08:32 rangi does to me
08:32 kf_away because: new item
08:32 kf_away checked out to a
08:32 kf_away hold for b
08:32 kf_away and that's the status after that
08:33 kf_away I was creating test cases for sip testing, so I did everything from scratch
08:33 kf_away this item has never been returned
08:33 rangi and you didnt place the hold before you added the item?
08:33 kf_away how would I do that?
08:34 kf_away you can't place holds on records without items?
08:34 rangi on the biblio
08:34 rangi i can
08:34 kf_away hm never tried it, but no
08:34 kf_away I imported record and item together
08:34 rangi id check the db, check the reserves table, and the transfers table
08:35 rangi see if the status is w
08:35 kf_away reserves has one hold
08:35 kf_away found is null
08:36 kf_away hm tansfers table?
08:36 kf_away which is that?
08:36 kf_away ah branchtransfers
08:37 kf_away almost empty, only one entry for different itemnumber
08:37 rangi [% IF ( itemloo.waitingdate ) %]                                                           at[% ELSE %]expected at
08:37 rangi is waitingdate set?
08:37 kf_away null
08:37 rangi right
08:38 rangi so if the item has a reserve date
08:38 rangi but no waitingdate
08:38 rangi it will say expected at
08:38 rangi if it has a waitingdate it will just say at
08:38 kf_away I feel dumb
08:38 kf_away but I don#t get the expected part really
08:39 kf_away why not say, on hold since....
08:39 rangi since
08:39 kf_away or expected at due_date
08:39 rangi [% IF ( itemloo.waitingdate ) %][% itemloo.waitingdate %]
08:39 rangi [% ELSE %]
08:39 rangi [% IF ( itemloo.reservedate ) %][% itemloo.reservedate %][% END %]
08:39 rangi [% END %]
08:39 rangi lemme git blame it
08:40 rangi right its pre template toolkit
08:40 kf_away but does it still make sense to you? or is it me not getting what it's trying to tell me?
08:41 kf_away it only occurs for item level holds
08:41 kf_away if that helps
08:41 kf_away my title level holds only say: checked out to
08:41 rangi been like that since 2004
08:41 kf_away hmpf
08:41 rangi sorry 2007 december 24
08:42 kf_away not much better
08:42 kf_away I ould file a bug report and see what others say - perhaps liz can make sense of it
08:43 rangi well it makes sense to me, its saying the oldest reserve has been there since the 5th, and it needs to go to such and such branch to fill it
08:44 kf_away oh
08:44 kf_away bug 4298
08:44 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4298 enhancement, P5, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , title detail display: improve the verbiage related to item level holds
08:44 kf_away and I see, I got the order wrong
08:44 kf_away to me it sounds like: it's expected since , but the date still belongs to the hold part
08:45 kf_away On hold for Benutzer B expected at BSZ-Bibliothek since 05/09/2011
08:45 kf_away so more clear (to me) would be: On hold for ... since ... expected at ...
08:45 rangi right
08:46 rangi id change expected to
08:46 rangi if you are going to rearrange it
08:46 rangi on hold for .. at .... since ...
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08:49 kf_away that good too
08:49 kf_away I think the expected part makes it confusing
08:56 kf_away I am updating the bug
08:58 kf_away rangi++
08:58 kf_away thx for helping me figure  it out :)
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09:04 huginn New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 6318] fields missing when editing a layout <[…]w_bug.cgi?id=6318>
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10:17 slef grrr turnkey linux
10:17 slef hi all
10:17 rangi you saw taht too?
10:18 slef tried to reply, got AV test
10:18 rangi yep
10:20 kf_away hi slef
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10:38 slef anyone know if the koha blogs yahoo pipe is OK?
10:38 rangi hmm not me
10:39 slef[…]17a5ee0e15ed6ca48
10:39 slef and bleah, nengard is the only admin and is afk right?
10:40 slef even
10:41 rangi shes on vacation, well deserved and yeah pipes is lame like that, pity theres nothing that does the same thing
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11:03 lastnode kf_away: there?
11:03 wahanui there is no spoon.
11:03 lastnode botsnack wahanui
11:07 kf_away lastnode: half
11:07 kf_away wahanui botsnack gummibärchen
11:07 wahanui thanks kf_away :)
11:14 lastnode kf_away: im just wrapping my head around dewey/cutter. was wondering if i could ask you some noob questions
11:14 * lastnode is not a librarian
11:15 lastnode the librarian at school is not a trained one either. it is a small library and we are both still learning
11:24 kf_away I am not sure I can help you with dewey
11:24 kf_away it's not widely used in Geramny
11:25 lastnode ohok
11:25 lastnode what do you guys use?
11:25 kf_away there are different things
11:26 kf_away public libraries often use asb, academic sometimes use rvk
11:26 kf_away a lot of libraries have their own classifications
11:26 kf_away lastnode: what did you wan to know?
11:30 lastnode when koha pulls in stuff from z39.50 searches
11:30 lastnode adn pulls in the dcc number
11:30 lastnode can i safely assuem it is a standard
11:30 lastnode ?
11:34 mtj dcc is[…]al_Classification
11:34 mtj dcc?
11:34 wahanui rumour has it dcc is[…]al_Classification
11:35 kf_away ddc is a standard
11:35 kf_away but I think how far you go using it depends on the library
11:36 kf_away how deep down in the hierarchy
11:37 lastnode ok
11:38 lastnode im talking after the decimal mainl,y kf_away
11:38 lastnode and i meant ddc, not dcc, my bad
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11:38 lastnode (before the decimal is pretty easy)
11:39 kf_away wahanui: ddc is[…]al_Classification
11:39 wahanui ...but ddc is a standard...
11:39 kf_away forget ddc
11:39 wahanui kf_away: I forgot ddc
11:39 kf_away ddc is[…]al_Classification
11:39 kf_away perhaps jcamins can help you here
11:40 jcamins What's the question?
11:40 jcamins My hosting provider had a major DOS incident overnight.
11:41 lastnode jcamins: im trying to wrap my head around dewey/cutter because the librarian at the school i work is not a real librarian (administrative assistant onwhom 'librarian' was thrust)
11:41 lastnode and we're both trying to get the basics down as we deploy koha
11:42 jcamins Ah.
11:42 jcamins Well, DDC is pretty straightforward, really.
11:42 lastnode im familiar now with ddc number / cutter number / work mark
11:42 lastnode but the decimal is confusing (seconday classification)
11:43 jcamins[…]22print/intro.pdf
11:43 jcamins What's confusing about it?
11:45 lastnode jcamins: more than one discipline etc. but this pdf is great, thanks
11:45 lastnode jcamins: is there a (semi)central dewey authority/server
11:45 lastnode i can just query when im not sure?
11:46 lastnode will z39.50 searches/imports from reputed targets (LOC etc.) return a fairly standard dcc call number for every entry?
11:46 jcamins There is no central server other htan OCLC.
11:46 jcamins LC will always have a DDC.
11:46 jcamins I don't think anyone else is guaranteed to have one.
11:46 lastnode ok jcamins
11:46 wahanui jcamins is supposed to be an outstanding cook. or well-traveled and brilliant. or trying to think of a solution, but short of a set of three sysprefs (ShelfBrowserUsesLocation, ShelfBrowserUsesCcode, and ShelfBrowserUsesHomeBranch), I don't really have any ideas. or awesome fixing broken email notifications or the wizard that forges queries in the deep fires of zebra
11:47 jcamins Looks like OSS Labs is busy.
11:47 lastnode by ocllc you mean right?
11:47 lastnode server is timing out atm
11:47 jcamins No.
11:48 jcamins I mean you have to have a subscription to OCLC.
11:48 jcamins The paid version of Worldcat.
11:48 lastnode oh right
11:49 lastnode i guess ill stick with the LOC for now
11:49 lastnode *LC. thanks jcamins
11:50 jcamins You're welcome.
11:50 jcamins Good luck.
11:51 lastnode jcamins: most of the library is fiction. is it ok to just use 812 (for example) and then include a cutter number + work mark?
11:51 jcamins If it's fiction, I recommend against using call numbers at all.
11:51 lastnode ok
11:51 jcamins Or, rather, classification numbers.
11:51 lastnode just use cutter directly?
11:52 jcamins Use something like: J FIC COL
11:52 jcamins Faster for the cataloger.
11:52 lastnode jcamins: but we'dwant to use a classification system that is scalable
11:52 lastnode int eh long run, to include other books too
11:52 lastnode hmmm
11:52 jcamins For the nonfiction books, you need to use DDC.
11:53 jcamins That's the way most public and school libraries in the US work- fiction doesn't have classification numbers, just simple call numbers.
11:53 lastnode jcamins: bc then a ton of books have 812, for xample
11:54 lastnode and fiction is such a huge genre
11:54 lastnode right
11:54 jcamins Exactly.
11:55 lastnode jcamins: J FIC COL
11:55 lastnode i get FIC
11:55 lastnode whatis J and COL?
11:56 jcamins Juvenile and the first three letters of the author's last name, respectively. :)
11:57 lastnode jcamins: is there a guide for this classification?
11:57 jcamins Nope.
11:57 lastnode so what other variables go in the J column
11:57 lastnode Juvenile / Adult
11:57 jcamins Just J.
11:57 lastnode ok
11:57 jcamins In most libraries, it's either FIC COL for an adult book or J FIC COL for a juvenile book.
12:00 lastnode ok
12:02 lastnode jcamins: so for shakespeare it would be FIC SHA and then we'd need to have a unique number to identify the play itself
12:02 lastnode i apologise if many of these questions are very basic. i realise that this channel is full of librarians!
12:02 jcamins Well, that's not really fiction.
12:03 jcamins That's more like "literature."
12:03 lastnode right, that was maybe a bad example
12:03 lastnode so they would be DDC numbered
12:03 jcamins Right.
12:03 lastnode and i guess as we go alon gand make mistakes we can always reclassify
12:03 jcamins Yup.
12:03 lastnode but say if it's GRI for Grisham
12:03 jcamins Right.
12:04 lastnode we'd need anotherunique number for The Pelikan Brief
12:04 lastnode and another unique for each copy
12:04 jcamins Not necessarily.
12:04 jcamins The person reshelving needs to put the books in alphabetical order.
12:04 lastnode and the call number is basically for that, got it
12:04 jcamins If they're in alphabetical order, people will be able to find the book they need, even if several books share the same call number.
12:05 lastnode right, yeah
12:05 lastnode and i guess each book can have a serial/barcode for us to keep track of both editions and copies
12:05 jcamins Exactly.
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12:05 jcamins The serial/barcode is key.
12:05 jcamins The call number is for the user, the barcode is for the staff.
12:05 lastnode for barcodes, koha defaults to 000x or YYYY-000x
12:06 lastnode i guess YYYY-000x is morescalable
12:06 jcamins Yes.
12:06 jcamins At least, that's my opinion.
12:07 jcamins The benefit of the other scheme, though, is that it's easier to make preprinted labels.
12:09 matts is now known as matts_away
12:10 lastnode jcamins: thanks again
12:10 lastnode just leaving work ill be back online ina  while
12:14 slef this is the lastnode that I will say these words. I remember the firstnode. The first of many lies.
12:14 slef Sweep it into the corner, or hide it under the bed. Say these nodes they go away, but they never do.
12:15 slef Some node I wasn't sure of, but I was in the middle of. Some node I forget now, but I've seen too little of.
12:15 * slef thinks it's clearly time for lunch. Overwork is starting to show.
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12:57 mtj hmmm , koha list is down?
12:57 mtj
13:07 lastnode jcamins: oh, right. i guess you could potentially print 500 for each year? :)
13:11 druthb joined #koha
13:11 druthb mornin'.
13:11 lastnode hi druthb
13:13 jcamins lastnode: yeah, but how confident would you be that you're going to use all 500?
13:14 jcamins Morning, druthb. :)
13:14 druthb @wunder sioux falls, sd
13:14 huginn druthb: The current temperature in Sioux Falls, South Dakota is 8.0�C (7:56 AM CDT on September 05, 2011). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 93%. Dew Point: 7.0�C. Pressure: 30.26 in 1025 hPa (Rising).
13:17 matts is now known as matts_away
13:18 lastnode that's true, jcamins :)
13:18 lastnode jcamins: i guess starting frm 0000 makes it easier
13:18 lastnode if yo want to pre-preint labels
13:19 lastnode and it is an option. it's not like having the year makes it a lot easier to find stuff
13:19 jcamins The advantage of having the year is that it makes it easier to search through paper accession records.
13:20 lastnode that's true
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13:47 slef mtj: main site looks up. Worth an email to info@katipo you think?
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15:08 reiveune bye
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16:17 huginn New commit(s) needsignoff: [Bug 5916] Don't show the link to edit authorities to people who don't have permissions to edit <[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5916>
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18:35 cait joined #koha
18:35 cait hi #koha
18:35 druthb hi, cait! :)
18:36 cait hi druthb:)
18:57 jcamins Where should I have photos printed?
18:58 cait no idea :)
18:58 cait hi jared
18:58 druthb I've done photo printing at Kinko's before, and they did a good job.
18:59 jcamins Costco has 4x6 prints for $0.13.
18:59 jcamins $0.09 at FedEx Office.
19:01 jcamins Apparently FedEx office uses Snapfish.
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19:37 rangi morning
19:37 druthb hi, rangi!
19:38 cait morning rangi :)
19:38 rangi heya traveller, where you at now?
19:38 druthb Sioux Falls, SD.  Lovely campground, but chilly early in the morning, for tenters.  was 7C this morning.
19:39 rangi ahh that sounds like wellington mornings :)
19:39 rangi @wunder wellington nz
19:39 huginn rangi: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 12.0�C (6:00 AM NZST on September 06, 2011). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 67%. Dew Point: 6.0�C. Pressure: 30.39 in 1029 hPa (Steady).
19:39 druthb @wunder sioux falls, SD
19:39 huginn druthb: The current temperature in Sioux Falls, South Dakota is 20.0�C (1:56 PM CDT on September 05, 2011). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 47%. Dew Point: 8.0�C. Pressure: 30.18 in 1022 hPa (Falling).
19:39 druthb Warmed up a bunch so far...
19:40 rangi 20 is nice
19:40 druthb yeah.  The minion thinks it's still cold.
19:40 cait @wunder Konstanz
19:40 huginn cait: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 14.7�C (9:38 PM CEST on September 05, 2011). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 87%. Dew Point: 13.0�C. Pressure: 30.22 in 1023.2 hPa (Steady).
19:40 cait brr
19:40 cait autumn like here :(
19:41 druthb I started a campfire this morning, let that run for a while, and worked at the picnic table close by. :)
19:41 tcohen left #koha
19:41 rangi sweet
19:41 druthb Got enough wood here for a fire tonight, too.  :)
19:44 rangi and marshmallows? :)
19:44 bg @wunder 93109
19:44 huginn bg: The current temperature in K6LCM - Westside / Mesa, Santa Barbara, California is 22.7�C (12:44 PM PDT on September 05, 2011). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 64%. Dew Point: 16.0�C. Pressure: 29.82 in 1009.7 hPa (Falling).
19:44 bg be hard to beat that today
19:45 rangi heya bg
19:45 bg hey a rangi
19:48 rangi quiet day in the us today eh?
19:48 druthb very
19:49 rangi u know it'd suck for the librarians working it
19:49 rangi but I think public holidays are the best day for them to be open
19:50 bg ok I'll bbiab
19:50 bg lunch time here
19:50 rangi cool
19:51 rangi its always the museums busiest days here
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20:13 cait good night all
20:14 rangi cya cait
20:14 cait :)
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20:47 rangi sup trea
20:49 druthb joined #koha
20:49 druthb o/
20:50 rangi wb druthb
20:50 druthb thanks! :)
20:55 yhager joined #koha
21:09 trea o/
21:09 trea hi rangi
21:10 druthb hi, trea!
21:21 em joined #koha
21:22 em Can anyone help me with zebra?
21:22 em i know absolutly nothing :(
21:22 em all of my searches are broken, i have re-indexed zebra and still nothing
21:22 em it stopped working after update :(
21:24 rangi what did you update?
21:25 em everything, went to newest update
21:25 rangi which is?
21:25 em 3.4.40
21:25 rangi didnt you install that already ?
21:25 em yes, but i cant get zebra to work
21:25 em i dont know anything about it
21:26 rangi is zebrasrv running?
21:26 em yes
21:26 rangi and you have zebra switched on system preferences?
21:26 em i am pretty sure i do
21:26 em i will check
21:26 rangi and when you reindex do you do it as the same user that is running zebrasrv
21:26 rangi also try the reindex with -v
21:27 rangi to see if it outputs any errors
21:27 em ok
21:27 em just a sec
21:27 em is zebra in sys prefrences?
21:28 rangi nozebra
21:28 rangi make sure its not set to use nozebra
21:28 em what does the prefrence NoZebraIndexes do?
21:28 rangi nothing
21:28 wahanui nothing is ever gone in git
21:28 em ok
21:28 em the prefrence NoZebra is set to USe
21:29 em is that good?
21:29 em ...
21:30 rangi im at work, gimme a minute
21:30 em ok
21:30 rangi yes, it should be set to use
21:30 em ok
21:30 em what should i rebuild?
21:30 em nozebra or zebra
21:30 rangi zebra
21:30 rangi never nozebra
21:30 em ok
21:30 rangi do it with -b -x -v -r
21:31 rangi as the switches
21:31 em ok
21:31 em doing it right now
21:32 em could not select database - error 109
21:32 rangi theres your problem
21:32 em and i would fix this how?
21:33 rangi are you 100% sure you are running zebrasrv and the rebuild_zebra as the same user?
21:33 em umm
21:33 em what user is the default? kohaadmin
21:33 rangi no
21:34 em what is the default?
21:34 wahanui the default is ports for those who dont have access/skills to run dns
21:34 rangi whatever you chose when installing
21:34 rangi how are you running zebrasrv?
21:34 em ubuntu
21:34 rangi no, how are you running it, how is it started?
21:34 em it does it by itself
21:35 em when i turn it on
21:35 em i used the koha live cd
21:35 em how do you switch users in the terminal?
21:35 rangi first we have to find what user is running zebrasrv
21:36 rangi look in /etc/init.d/
21:36 em ok
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21:36 rangi is there a file koha-zebra-daemon ?
21:36 em yes
21:37 rangi less that file
21:37 em what?
21:37 em open it?
21:37 rangi yes
21:37 em ok
21:38 em ok, what am i looking for?
21:38 rangi less /etc/init.d/koha-zebra-daemon
21:38 rangi is what i would do
21:38 rangi at the top
21:38 rangi USER=something
21:38 rangi what is something
21:38 em USER=koha
21:38 rangi right
21:38 rangi so zebrasrv is running as koha
21:38 em ok
21:38 rangi so you need to run rebuild_zebra as koha
21:39 em how do i do that,
21:39 em sudo ...?
21:39 rangi where is your koha-conf.xml file?
21:39 rangi 2 ways you can do it
21:40 em ok
21:40 em i am searching for it
21:40 em /etc/koha
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21:40 rangi sudo -u koha KOHA_CONF=/path/to/koha-conf.xml perl -I /usr/share/koha/lib /path/to/ -b -x -v -r
21:41 em wow
21:41 em ok
21:41 rangi (fix the /path/to bits)
21:41 rangi or you can sudo su - koha
21:41 em ok
21:41 rangi and export KOHA_CONF and PERL5LIB etc
21:42 em wow, slow down here :) do i incude /koha-conf.xml ? or just /etc/koha
21:42 rangi include koha-conf.xml
21:42 em ok
21:44 em wait ...
21:45 em command not found
21:46 em nevermind
21:46 em cant open perl script
21:46 em nevermind again
21:47 em no errors, but in log it says permission denied zebra_lock_create fail
21:48 em search still broken
21:48 rangi right i suspect whats happened is you ran it as root once right?
21:48 rangi and the permissions are now all messed up
21:48 em opps
21:48 rangi so zebrasrv cant read the files
21:48 em opps
21:48 rangi does it give the full path?
21:48 em yes
21:48 rangi can you paste that in please
21:48 em ok
21:49 em i have to do manuly as i am on diff. computer
21:49 em did you want all of them or just one?
21:49 rangi is it /var/lib/koha ?
21:49 em no]
21:49 rangi /var/lock/koha ?
21:50 em it is /var/lock/koha/zebradb/biblios/norm..
21:50 rangi right
21:50 rangi can you do this
21:50 em it is /var/lock/koha/zebradb/biblios/shadow..
21:50 em ok
21:50 rangi sudo chown -R koha:koha /var/lock/koha
21:50 rangi and then
21:50 rangi sudo chown -R koha:koha /var/lib/koha
21:51 rangi then hit the up arrow a few times till you get the rebuild command back, and run that again
21:51 em ok
21:51 em :D
21:51 em i think it worked
21:51 em testing
21:52 em nope
21:52 em still broke
21:52 rangi you will have to restart zebrasrv
21:52 em but no errors as far as i can see
21:52 em ok
21:52 em how do i do that
21:52 rangi sudo /etc/init.d/koha-zebra-daemon restart
21:53 rangi (no more error 109 eh?)
21:53 em yep :)
21:53 em fatal error
21:53 em failed to find pid for koha-zebra-ctl.koha : no such file or directory
21:54 rangi k so it wasnt running
21:54 rangi sudo /etc/init.d/koha-zebra-daemon start
21:54 em oh, it said it was though
21:54 em Starting Zebra Server
21:54 rangi ps axf | grep "zebrasrv"
21:55 rangi check its running
21:55 em what do i enter after that
21:55 em it just goes to >
21:55 rangi you must have missed a " then
21:56 em opps, i did ;)
21:56 em how do i get out?
21:56 rangi ctrl-c
21:56 em thanks ;)
21:57 em it brings up a bunch of random things with zebrasrv in red
21:57 rangi is there one
21:57 rangi zebrasrv -f /etc/koha/koha-conf.xml
21:57 em ?
21:57 rangi that looks like that
21:57 em umm, looking
21:58 em it does not look like it
21:58 em oh
21:58 rangi what ones are there
21:58 em yes
21:58 rangi k, try a search now
21:58 em there is 2 lines of random crap, then it goes that
21:58 em nope
21:58 em search broken
21:58 rangi heh, theres nothing random about it
21:59 rangi ah well, im afraid im out of time, i have to do some work now
21:59 em ok
21:59 em :(
21:59 rangi but its definitely to do with you messing up the permissions
21:59 em should i re-do the update?
21:59 rangi no
21:59 rangi you might want to learn a bit about linux server administration though
22:00 em ok, how would i fix the perrmissions then?
22:00 rangi running a server isnt easy, and understanding basics like users and permissions etc are vital before you try to admin a server
22:00 em :/
22:00 rangi id suggest finding a good intro to linux book and reading it
22:00 em that sound boring ;)
22:00 * rangi goes back to work
22:01 em ok
22:01 em thanks for your help
22:01 em :)
22:03 em Anyone else wanna test there skils in koha and ubuntu ;) ???
22:04 Technicus left #koha
22:06 em meeting on september 7th ... that might be a good time to show up ;)
22:06 em well, if anyone has any help they could email me at --  i am going to find something to do :(
22:07 trea is now known as trea-away
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22:12 em still here ;)
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22:28 Topic for #koha is now 3.4.4 is now available; Next General IRC Meeting 7 September 2011 at 18.00 UTC. This is a nominations meeting.
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23:54 em i need help, error on make test for upgrade to 3.04.04 error : C4:PRINT  failed to find in @INC
23:54 em Failed test 'use C4::Print'
23:56 em anyone?
23:57 eythian you probably don't have Template::Toolkit installed
23:57 em how do i install that?
23:57 eythian well, are you upgrading from 3.2?
23:58 em yes
23:58 eythian you're on Debian/Ubuntu?
23:58 em yes
23:58 eythian sudo aptitude install libtemplate-toolkit-perl should do it
23:58 em ok\
23:58 em that will fix it?
23:58 eythian try it and find out
23:58 miguel joined #koha
23:58 em ok
23:59 eythian but I expect so
23:59 em ok

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