IRC log for #koha, 2011-02-04

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:02 chris_n so which images are athorized value images?
00:03 chris_n authorized even
00:03 rangi hmmm
00:03 rangi pass
00:03 * chris_n tested the patches for 5687
00:03 chris_n they apply
00:04 rangi but not sure how to test them?
00:04 chris_n not exactly
00:04 rhcl is wahanui1 a bot?
00:04 rangi maybe update the bug and ask marcel to explain more
00:04 chris_n apparently these images were there before
00:04 rangi rhcl: yep
00:04 chris_n now they just are conditional based on the new syspref
00:04 rangi ah right
00:04 rhcl is now known as rhcl_away
00:04 chris_n but nothing changes with my test data
00:05 chris_n so I probably don't have these images setup
00:05 * chris_n goes to dig through the code a bit
00:27 chris_n well the bug is updated at any rate
00:28 hudsonbot Starting build 341 for job Koha_Master (previous build: SUCCESS)
00:32 huginn New commit(s) kohagit: Fix for Bug 5115, Tags JavaScript includes many untranslatable strings <[…]2cdeb7019fbfadeb6> / Merge branch 'new/bug_5690' into kcmaster <[…]454251d16b9d5ce0e> / Bug 5690 <[…]5b5c230249581a973
00:40 Nate_ left #koha
00:42 huginn New commit(s) kohagit: Fix for Bug 5532 - sysprefs editor should show names of saved prefs <[…]2c93c96d6894ff821> / Fix for Bug 5689 - System preference notifications are not translatable <[…]4c76629020c392bca>
00:52 hudsonbot Project Koha_Master build #341: SUCCESS in 24 min: http://hudson.koha-community.o[…]/Koha_Master/341/
00:52 hudsonbot * Chris Cormack: Updating history docs
00:52 hudsonbot * Henri-Damien LAURENT: Bug 5690
00:52 hudsonbot * Owen Leonard: Fix for Bug 5115, Tags JavaScript includes many untranslatable strings
00:53 hudsonbot Starting build 342 for job Koha_Master (previous build: SUCCESS)
01:15 chris_n @later tell atz[…]ngscratchpad.html
01:15 huginn chris_n: The operation succeeded.
01:18 chris_n @later tell jwagner[…]t:hard_coded.html
01:18 huginn chris_n: The operation succeeded.
01:18 chris_n @later tell jwagner but I don't think that helps much as what they mean apparently never got filled in
01:18 huginn chris_n: The operation succeeded.
01:21 hudsonbot Project Koha_Master build #342: SUCCESS in 28 min: http://hudson.koha-community.o[…]/Koha_Master/342/
01:21 hudsonbot * Owen Leonard: Fix for Bug 5689 - System preference notifications are not translatable
01:21 hudsonbot * Owen Leonard: Fix for Bug 5532 - sysprefs editor should show names of saved prefs
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01:49 chris_n @later tell jwagner here is an updated version based on my parsing through irc logs and code
01:49 huginn chris_n: The operation succeeded.
01:49 chris_n @later tell jwagner[…]Hard_Coded_Values
01:49 huginn chris_n: The operation succeeded.
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02:07 zpinhead interested in using koha for 'special collections'.
02:07 zpinhead see the product 'aeon' by atlas systems.
02:08 zpinhead 1) preserve user information for ever.
02:08 zpinhead 2) items always stay in room -- user gives back at end of day
02:08 zpinhead uses next day, or for several days.
02:09 zpinhead request items from ead files -- request at level of 'box' or 'folder'
02:09 zpinhead depending on configuration of 'collection'.
02:09 zpinhead anyone have any clues as to if this might have been done before?
02:09 zpinhead thanks.
02:11 zpinhead here is a url for the 'aeon' product.
02:11 zpinhead
02:11 druthb ....
02:13 druthb I suspect *something* could be done, although Koha is pretty MARC21/UNIMARC-centric.
02:13 druthb EAD records would be something unexpected for it, so some hacking would likely be needed.
02:14 zpinhead i think maybe one key is that you don't have a whole thing.
02:15 zpinhead you (the patron) borrow a part of a thing -- like, from a particular collection,
02:15 druthb yah, how you define *item* is something kind of incompatible with Koha's notion of *item.*
02:15 zpinhead like 'Ezra Cornell's paper'  box 32 -- folder 12 -- it's kind of like
02:16 zpinhead borrowing one volume of a serial.
02:16 druthb If you designated a folder as the item, and have a herd of items hooked to the bib, which could be a box or a whole collection, you could make it work.  Loading the data would be a little gnarly, but do-able.
02:17 zpinhead there is also a scheduling aspect.  folks come from far away to use
02:17 zpinhead a thing for a few days -- so you need to have check-out's queued up.
02:17 druthb could maybe use the holds mechanism for part of that, with a little hacking.
02:18 zpinhead need to make sure schedules don't conflict.
02:18 zpinhead also some items are also in library catalog -- and need to be fetched
02:18 zpinhead from 'library annex', but some (many) are of the EAD type.
02:18 zpinhead and many users are not actually registered at the university --
02:19 zpinhead so you need to create users on the spot.
02:19 druthb Easy enough, that.
02:19 druthb The Really Big Stinker, as I see it, is the EAD format...Koha knows nothing whatever about that.
02:21 zpinhead is there a 'call slip' mechanism for koha?
02:22 druthb no, though I think it's been talked about.
02:23 zpinhead fetch this item from the stacks, and deliver it to a particular
02:23 zpinhead circ place?
02:26 druthb yeah, I've seen 'em before.  But Koha has no tool for that.
02:29 zpinhead this:http://www.librarytechnology.o[…]
02:29 zpinhead says koha has call slips.  but i don't see anything
02:30 zpinhead on
02:30 druthb If you're looking at, you're looking in the wrong place.
02:30 zpinhead as for EAD, like you said -- each EAD would be one bib record,
02:31 zpinhead and then, some how connect the boxes, and folders as holding info.
02:31 druthb LibLime Enterprise Koha is a product supported by PTFS/LibLime, based on an older Koha base...  The Koha that's talked about here is based at
02:32 druthb might use the item enum-chron field for box-folder info.
02:33 zpinhead tricky bit is: if someone has borrowed a box -- which contains
02:34 druthb yah, could be tedious to check out all the folders in the box.
02:35 zpinhead some folders -- need to know that those folders are checked out.
02:35 zpinhead need some sort of 'enclosed' or 'dependency' relations between
02:35 zpinhead things, entities.
02:36 druthb yep.
02:46 zpinhead ead is really hard to parse also -- lots of options, lots of levels
02:47 zpinhead of nesting -- but i guess we could tailor it to our own needs.
02:47 druthb mhm
02:48 zpinhead you can have boxes in boxes in boxes in folders in folders.
02:49 zpinhead -- one can do that.  but one institution usually has one set of
02:49 zpinhead conventions -- so could tailor to that.
02:51 druthb If you build the notion of "Container" right, then it'll work for any level of nesting.
02:54 druthb "A biblio may hold a Container, which may, in turn, hold, zero-or-more other containers.
02:54 druthb (If a container holds zero others, then it's a folder, the lowest level of stuff you'll put over the circ desk.
02:55 druthb Then when you check out any container, it should check out all nested objects contained by it, as deep as needed.
02:57 * druthb looks to the "digital space" in her head...
02:58 druthb That could be done by adding one field to the Koha items table, which would contain the itemnumber of the parent item.  a NULL there indicates a top-level item, and an item with no children pointing at it is a bottom-level.
02:59 druthb There'd be lots of display, editing, circ hacks to be done, but the change to the data structures would not be insane for that.
03:00 druthb Such a hack would have some value in other contexts, such as kits--barcode the individual objects, and the box they're in.
03:05 druthb I'm gonna head out for the evening.  zpinhead, please do come back by during US working hours--lotsa folks here and talking, then.  Someone may have other ideas that could help.
03:05 zpinhead thanks druthb.
03:06 zpinhead i will sign on tomorrow in working hours.   my library is
03:06 druthb you bet.  Some interesting ideas that jump off the screen at me...
03:06 zpinhead looking at aeon -- i would really like to have something else but i
03:06 zpinhead cannot find anything else in the space.
03:06 zpinhead cheers.
03:06 zpinhead tty.
03:06 zpinhead ttyl.
03:06 druthb Koha would require a fair bit of hacking to get there.  It's not un-do-able, but it's non-trivial
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03:13 kmkale Namaskar #koha
03:17 kmkale @weather Mumbai
03:17 huginn kmkale: The current temperature in Mumbai, India is 25.0�C (8:10 AM IST on February 04, 2011). Conditions: Smoke. Humidity: 54%. Dew Point: 15.0�C. Pressure: 29.95 in 1014 hPa (Rising).
03:27 brendan__ @wunder 93109
03:27 huginn brendan__: The current temperature in K6LCM - Westside / Mesa, Santa Barbara, California is 9.5�C (7:28 PM PST on February 03, 2011). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 88%. Dew Point: 8.0�C. Windchill: 9.0�C. Pressure: 30.31 in 1026.3 hPa (Falling).
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05:28 kmkale @quote random
05:28 huginn kmkale: Quote #28: "<owen> I'm glad munin doesn't follow me around all day remembering *everything* I say." (added by jdavidb at 01:14 PM, September 01, 2009)
06:31 rangi @wunder wellington nz
06:31 huginn rangi: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 20.0�C (7:00 PM NZDT on February 04, 2011). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 94%. Dew Point: 19.0�C. Pressure: 29.92 in 1013 hPa (Steady).
06:31 rangi sticky
06:43 kf joined #koha
06:43 kf good morning #koha
06:44 rangi hi kf
06:47 kf hi chris
06:53 kmkale hi chris kf
06:55 francharb joined #koha
06:56 francharb morning #koha
06:56 rangi hi francharb
06:57 kf hi francharb and kmkale
07:07 kf rangi++
07:07 kf lots of messages from git in my inbox
07:07 kf chris_n++
07:07 brendan__ left #koha
07:30 rangi Yep, getting the biblibre stuff attached to bugs, signed off and merged in
07:30 rangi chris_n has been a big help
07:39 kf you both are great
07:44 kf chris_hall++
07:44 kf for his template work :)
07:47 Brooke_ joined #koha
07:47 Brooke_ kia ora
07:50 kf hi Brooke_
07:50 Brooke_ :)
07:57 kmkale namaste Brooke_
07:57 Brooke_ namaste :D
07:59 * Brooke_ is going to try and relax then go to sleep. Not like...
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09:47 kmkale I am trying to figure out which marc tag information is available in opac-results.tmpl. Cant figure out where <!-- TMPL_VAR name="pages" --> is getting populated in Any hints?
09:51 thd-away is now known as thd
09:51 kmkale I want to know which marc tags are available in addition to author, title etc in opac-results.tmpl. And if I need a particular tag, say 653$a, how to get it to display. Please help..
09:52 thd kmkale: I should be asleep but perhaps I can help.
09:52 thd Are you using the XSLT view or the standard record detail view?
09:52 kmkale thd: please
09:53 kmkale thd: standard
09:54 thd kmkale: I assume that you do not mean the MARC view.
09:54 kmkale thd: no. the view
09:56 thd kmkale: In the standard view for one record I think that you need to alter how the subject field is stored in the SQL database or alter the template to grab the data from another place.
09:57 thd s/another place/additional field/
09:58 kmkale thd: I am looking into sub searchResults {. Cant figure how stuff like <!-- TMPL_IF name="pages" etc is getting populated
10:00 kf kmkale: I don't hink it's search om
10:00 kf pm
10:01 kf or not sure, when i added the Controlnumber to the opacsearchtitlein I added it to
10:01 kf there are methods to get things like subjects
10:01 thd kmkale: Do you mean one record or a set of brief records?
10:01 kmkale calls @newresults = searchResults( then populates $template->param(SEARCH_RESULTS => \@newresults,
10:02 kmkale kf: so I should use directly in
10:03 kf I think the opac detail view gets the information from the methods in
10:04 kf so I thought you might want to look there and check
10:04 kmkale kf i am on opac results page
10:04 kmkale ok
10:05 kf we are using the xslt views, but there is none for results in staff
10:07 thd kmkale: kf is correct that you should look at
10:08 kmkale thd: looking.
10:08 thd GetMarcSubjects
10:08 kmkale GetMarcBiblio from
10:15 thd kmkale: yes in you were right
10:16 thd kmkale: subjects in opac-detail do not use the Koha SQL database anymore.
10:17 thd kmkale: Perhaps the framework hidden value for 653 $a is hiding the data from the OPAC.
10:21 thd kmkale: the hidden value is 0 which should make 653 $a visible in the OPAC.
10:24 thd kmkale are you certain that the record which you are expecting to see something from 653 $a has a value in 653 $a?
10:24 kmkale thd: yes
10:24 kmkale also I am trying to get this value in the search page. Not the detail page
10:25 kmkale fpr that I will need to populate the template->param(SEARCH_RESULTS in ( I think )
10:26 kmkale which gets its values from @newresults = searchResults( method in ( I think )
10:31 thd kmkale: The design of the result set page makes my wince when I see it.
10:32 kmkale thd: For a non perl person like me its a code nightmare
10:33 kmkale I have no clue whats going on in
10:34 thd kmkale: is complicated and has been the source of much contention in the wake of KohaCon with BibLibre rewriting it for Solr/Lucene instead of Zebra support.
10:35 kmkale I have read those threads with interest
10:35 thd kmkale: However, you only need to find what happens when the result set is returned not when the query is sent which is the more complicated part.
10:36 kmkale thd: yup
10:36 thd The query formation is the most complicated part.
10:36 kmkale # loop through all of the records we've retrieved
10:36 kmkale for ( my $i = $offset ; $i <= $times - 1 ; $i++ ) {
10:36 kmkale my $marcrecord = MARC::File::USMARC::decode( $marcresults[$i] );
10:37 mtj kmkale:  use XSLT for opac, its better
10:38 mtj better = easier for you to customize
10:38 thd mtj: kmkale is trying to change the result set with multiple records which is unaffected by the XSLT stylesheets
10:40 mtj if he turned on xslt syspref for opac, it *would* be affected
10:40 mtj … by the xslt stylesheets
10:42 mtj[…]cfa1770bb;hb=HEAD
10:43 thd mtj: I had not realised that the result set was affected.
10:44 kmkale In the searchResults( ) method in, does the my $marcrecord  object contain ALL the marc tags for the record?
10:45 mtj kmkale:  add your 653 stuff to MARC21slim2OPACResults.xsl file
10:45 thd kmkale: It should contain everything in the record
10:45 kmkale mtj: never used xslt. will have a look. Thanks for the info
10:46 thd kmkale: most libraries using MARC 21 prefer to use XSLT for the ease of making changes.
10:46 mtj xslt makes the opac look much prettier too
10:47 mtj [[citation needed]]
10:47 mtj ;) pass, i dont know that...
10:47 kmkale :)
10:47 thd kmkale: You should be warned that the XSLT work in Koha is very incomplete and maximally inefficient if your goal is to report very complete record information.
10:48 mtj most libraries using MARC21 dont know about xslt?
10:48 kmkale thd: mtj any idea if xslt *might* have any issues with Unicode stuff like India scripts?
10:48 mtj nah, its more complete than the other option
10:49 kmkale s/India/Indic/
10:49 thd mtj: Almost all of LibLime's customers had XSLT turned on for them.
10:49 mtj meaning more of your bib info is displayed using xslt, than the no-xslt option
10:49 thd kmkale: Unicode should display fine for any option.
10:50 kmkale ok. WIll have a look see.
10:51 mtj well, most liblime customers didnt make changes to their XSLT files ;)
10:51 thd mtj: If you want to display any arbitrary record data with the XSLT design you have to add the entire MARC standard to the XSLT filter.
10:51 mtj but hey, a silly topic... :)
10:52 kmkale thd: you are scring me
10:52 kmkale s/scring/scaring/
10:52 thd kmkale: It is not scary.
10:53 thd kmkale: record display in Koha is weak either way.
10:53 mtj koha's xslt marc stuff references  xmlns:marc=""
10:53 mtj so its gonna be pretty complete?
10:54 mtj hah, a dead url :/
10:54 thd kmkale: The problem with XSLT efficiency is that the Koha implementation is actually merely a feature of YAZ with no concern for anything other than a minimal display.
10:55 kmkale thd: I did not understand anything from the above statement ;)
10:55 kf kmkale: don't be scared - xslt is changeable
10:56 kf kmkale: if you need some help to make it show something, perhaps I can help you sometime
10:56 kmkale <quote> add the entire MARC standard to the XSLT filter.</quote> sounds scary
10:56 thd kmkale: YAZ is from IndexData and the Koha XSLT filters are essentially copied from YAZ.
10:56 thd kmkale: The goal of the filters was to show very little information.
10:57 * kmkale is aware of YAZ. In the form of yaz-client
10:57 thd kmkale: YAZ can also convert records using XSLT filters.
10:57 kmkale kf thanks. May take you up on that help offer
10:59 thd kmkale: The problem from an efficiency point of view is that the XSLT filters search the record for a list of fields and subfields.
10:59 mtj i guess my point is, if you dont use XSLT to have to make a nasty mod in, *and* opac-results.tmpl
10:59 mtj if you use XSLT , you just have to make a mod to MARC21slim2OPACResults.xsl
11:00 thd kmkale: The XSLT filters should be reading the record sequentially and only doing something for actual record content.
11:00 kf mtj: good point :)
11:00 kf I like xslt
11:00 mtj and your XSLT mod is more likely to not break when you upgrade your koha
11:01 thd kf: XSLT is good.  The implementation in Koha is weak.
11:01 mtj i like XSLT for making my system easier to upgrade, for custom display-mods
11:02 mtj yep, so add the stuff thats missing ;)
11:02 mtj … for at least your clients koha
11:02 mtj like a 652 block
11:02 mtj s/652/653/
11:02 thd mtj: The problem with adding what is missing is that it would require parsing the entire MARC standard to be complete.
11:03 thd mtj: That is why I mean that the XSLT implementation is written backwards.
11:03 mtj pass, that hasn't been my experience yet
11:03 thd mtj: There should be no need to parse anything not in the record.
11:04 thd mtj: The evidence is there in the code.
11:04 mtj im curious, which file/s ?
11:05 thd mtj: The exact ones which you have identified
11:05 mtj theres a *lot* of stuff re: xslt i dont understand yet,
11:06 mtj but ive manged to display any bib subfield i want, so far
11:06 thd mtj:  The files for OPAC detail are the most problematic.
11:06 mtj by modding the .xsl file
11:07 thd mtj: Yes you can have it display anything you want by specifying what you want.
11:07 mtj yep, that works ok for me
11:07 kmkale changed to xslt and 1st tghing is subjests are NOT displayed in the results page
11:07 kmkale but are displayed in the details [page
11:07 thd mtj: However, if you want to display everything which might ever be in any record then the design inefficiency is revealed.
11:08 mtj aaaahhh, a speed issue
11:08 thd mtj: yes I only refer to speed and precious CPU cycles
11:10 mtj i imagine the xslt parsing stuff hasnt had a speed tweak yet , tho
11:10 mtj both things are know problems with workarounds
11:10 thd mtj: No mere tweak required.  It is written backwards.
11:11 thd mtj: It should parse the record content against what you want to do with the content.
11:11 mtj add more content to your .xsl file and get a faster box
11:12 thd mtj: In contrast, it parses what you want to do with the content against the record content.
11:13 mtj are you saying koha does this the wrong/slow way?
11:13 thd mtj: It simply does not scale for presenting all possible record information even if faster boxes are cheap.  Enough users displaying enough records will slow anything.
11:13 thd mtj: Yes backwards.
11:14 mtj ah, ok
11:14 thd mtj: The parsing logic reversed.
11:15 mtj ok, sounds like a good thing to fix in the future
11:15 thd mtj: If the list of fields you want to display is small the issue is moot.
11:15 thd mtj: I have discussed fixing the issue with fredericd.
11:16 thd mtj: There is a general problem that most of the XSLT files only work with MARC 21 and not UNIMARC.
11:17 mtj ok, yes, i only run marc21 kohas
11:19 thd kmkale: The problem may be that the record prepared for the result set page may already be a subset of the  record.
11:20 kmkale thats what I suspect. That was the reason of the ALL marc question above
11:20 mtj thd:  its great to hear you have been doing work in this xslt area, those problems are all new to me
11:21 thd mtj: fredericd had asked me about XSLT a couple of years ago and so I investigated deeply.
11:23 thd mtj: There has never been substantial effort on XSLT specifically for Koha.  The functionality was essentially invoked from YAZ.
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11:25 mtj yeah, it works well enuff for most usage
11:25 mtj it just needs improvement, to make it complete and faster
11:26 thd mtj: Yes, I am one of the unreasonable people never satisfied with what most people find acceptable.
11:26 thd mtj: The trouble is that fixing it would not be a minor tweak.
11:27 thd mtj: Fixing the problem would mean redesigning how it functions.
11:28 kmkale uncommenting use Data::Dumper; print STDERR "-" x 25, "\n", Dumper($results_hashref); in seems to indicate that all marc info is retrieved
11:28 thd mtj: XSLT needs to call its own version of a MARC framework.
11:28 kmkale will verify this
11:30 thd kmkale: all the data is retrieved for, however, it may be subsequently filtered before being handed for result set display processing.
11:32 mtj thd: so the catch with a complete (read: HUGE) marc.xsl file, is that all of teh xsl needs to be evaluated, even if the bib is tiny?
11:33 thd mtj: exactly
11:33 mtj and its all that extra evaluating that the performance killer?
11:33 mtj ah
11:33 thd mtj: exactly
11:33 mtj ok, i get it :/
11:35 mtj so thats the cost of a complete marc.xsl file, the execution of the .xsl is a killer
11:35 thd mtj: a few users may not notice but given enough users and enough useful features yet to be written also taking the CPU, then the CPU needs to be used more efficiently. to be used better.
11:37 thd mtj: This issue is trivial compared to some looping problems people are fixing for Koha 3.4
11:37 mtj hmm, i wonder if there are hacks/tricks to optimise an .xsl file
11:37 mtj argreed there
11:38 thd mtj: Not writing to MARC for circulation is the easiest fix for performance people are implementing.
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11:40 mtj well, heres a good point, the .xsl for search results should be pretty brief
11:41 mtj ultimately it could be complete, but mostly commented-out
11:42 mtj so a speed win there for results display
11:44 thd mtj:Yes the result set should be brief in the OPAC.
11:44 mtj ok, i am off guys, cheers for the info
11:44 thd mtj: Where are you from?
11:44 mtj NZ,  mtj = mason.t.james
11:45 thd Hello mason
11:45 mtj i have a new nick
11:45 kf and you are awake at odd hours :)
11:46 thd I chose uniquely enough not to need a new nick.
11:46 kf my nick seems to be too short to be registered
11:46 thd kf: That is what Koha will do to you
11:46 mtj someone already had wasabi  :/
11:46 thd kf: Koha keeps people awake forever.
11:47 mtj kf: nah, 1am isnt that late
11:47 kf my trick is multiple personalities... hides the fact that I am almost always here a bit better
11:47 thd 6.50 AM where I am is late :)
11:47 kf 12:50 pm
11:47 kf still a lot of friday left for me
11:48 mtj 12:51am here
12:00 thd kmkale: I hope you solve the problem, I have to sleep.
12:00 kmkale getRecords seems to return complete marc set ( may be wrong as the dumper does not display mark tag numbers but the data is displayed.) but the searchResults method returns a subset. This subset is pushed in template param. so I think I need to change searchResults method in :(
12:00 kmkale by thd
12:01 kf xslt doesn't work?
12:02 thd kf: XSLT needs the data to be in the record parsed
12:02 kmkale kf: no 6xx displayed in results with xslt
12:02 kmkale its displayed in details
12:03 kf ah
12:03 thd kf: prefiltered records are the problem
12:03 * thd sleeps
12:03 thd is now known as thd-away
12:03 kf I understand
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12:20 kmkale kf using seems to be the way
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12:42 Nate__ morning #koha!
12:44 slef hi Nate__
12:44 kf kmkale: oh :(
12:44 Nate__ hiya slef
12:44 kmkale kf: I dont dxare touch
12:47 kf understandable
12:50 jcamins_away is now known as jcamins
12:53 paul_p 'morning americans south & north !
12:55 jwagner morning/afternoon/evening, the rest of the world....
13:08 hdl hi
13:08 wahanui1 hola, hdl
13:09 * kf waves
13:11 oleonard joined #koha
13:13 kf hi oleonard :)
13:13 oleonard Hi
13:13 wahanui1 hello, oleonard
13:15 tcohen left #koha
13:20 tcohen joined #koha
13:29 kf wahanui_1_?
13:35 jwagner The bots are cloning?
13:39 kf that would be scary
13:40 jwagner World domination is next on their agenda!!!
13:41 oleonard chris_n: Thanks for the signoffs yesterday
13:41 chris_n oleonard: yw
13:48 kf hehe
13:48 kf wahanui1 botsnack cookies
13:48 wahanui1 :)
13:49 kf better be nice to the bots
13:51 jcamins is now known as jcamins_away
14:13 sekjal joined #koha
14:15 oleonard *sigh* The perennial 3.2 question... Why can't I place a hold...
14:15 oleonard You'd think I've been through this enough times
14:17 * oleonard finds the errant pref
14:18 oleonard Okay, as per Bug 4806 holds now have a unique id in the reserves table
14:18 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4806 critical, PATCH-Sent, ---, gmcharlt, NEW, circ/circulation.tmpl: Add "reservenumber" in the reserved table
14:18 oleonard But it looks like the hold deletion process hasn't been updated to use it?
14:18 oleonard Duplicate holds are still deleted all together
14:19 * oleonard thought this was one of the primary motivations for adding the unique id
14:22 oleonard paul_p or hdl, Might this be a change Biblibre has made in one of your branches?
14:24 hdl oleonard: there are some work to be sent about that
14:28 tcohen wahanui1: hi there
14:28 wahanui1 salut, tcohen
14:28 oleonard hdl: I've created a new bug report for that: Bug 5696. It would be great if you could attach a patch to that when it's ready
14:28 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5696 normal, P5, ---, kyle.m.hall, NEW, Hold deletion should use reservenumber
14:41 oleonard Does anyone know how Bug 3929 works?
14:41 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3929 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, paul.poulain, NEW, parameters in guided reports
14:56 kmkale bye all. have a nice weekend
14:56 kmkale left #koha
14:57 * oleonard finds info on reports parameters in the help file of all places ;)
15:03 oleonard paul_p++ # for guided reports runtime paramters
15:03 paul_p thx oleonard
15:04 oleonard It's a very thoughtful implementation. I like the option to use authorised values
15:04 wizzyrea paul_p++ for thoughtful implementations
15:06 kf oleonard: do branches work for you?
15:07 oleonard Using branches as a parameter?
15:07 kf yep
15:07 kf i have a note here somewhere... to retest that
15:07 oleonard It worked for querying items.homebranch
15:09 kf ah cool
15:10 kf can you share the syntax?
15:10 kf perhaps I had a mistake there
15:11 kf oleonard: I found that if you use it to put in an integer valuse, like x days ago
15:11 kf it does not work without an additional trick
15:11 kf because of the ' ' aroudn the value
15:11 oleonard Good point, I didn't test that. I tested with strings and dates.
15:12 kf those work fine
15:12 kf I did a trick in sql to make it work
15:12 kf cast(<<Days ago>> as decimal)
15:13 kf this worked - but I am sure there are better ways to do it
15:13 oleonard I obviously don't have pastebot0's ear.
15:13 oleonard
15:13 druthb joined #koha
15:13 oleonard Sorry for the CONCATs in that, I just tested the last query I'd used
15:13 oleonard Good morning druthb
15:14 kf it's perfect, thx
15:14 wizzyrea oleonard did you tell pastebot which channel to send your paste to?
15:14 oleonard Tricky pastebot0!
15:14 druthb hi, oleonard! :)
15:14 wizzyrea (I sometimes forget and have the same problem you just did)
15:16 * oleonard thinks that when it comes to channels there is only one
15:16 wizzyrea :)
15:16 wizzyrea I never really understood why it defaulted to "none"
15:19 kf hm, so you don't accidently share the wrong things?
15:20 wizzyrea i suppose if you're using the koha paste to share naughty literature with your clandestine online love interest you might not want it to default to the channel
15:20 wizzyrea so I suppose you have a point there
15:20 wizzyrea ;)
15:20 kf lol
15:21 * druthb chuckles.
15:23 tcohen wahanui1: is bug 3929 important?
15:23 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3929 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, paul.poulain, RESOLVED FIXED, parameters in guided reports
15:24 tcohen wahanui1: you lost the magic
15:24 wahanui1 tcohen: huh?
15:24 druthb wahanui1: wizzyrea?
15:24 wahanui1 hmmm... wizzyrea is a nerd
15:24 druthb hasn't lost all its' marbles, apparently.
15:25 oleonard I wonder how difficult it would be to get guided reports screen output to automatically link to biblios (for biblio.title, biblio.biblionumber), patrons (for borrowers.surname) etc.
15:25 druthb oleonard++
15:25 rhcl_away wahanui1: wahanui1?
15:25 wahanui1 i am onboard I think
15:26 oleonard Let's hear some real enthusiasm wahanui1!
15:26 rhcl_away dude needs some coffee
15:26 rhcl_away is now known as rhcl
15:27 oleonard wahanui1: forget wahanui1
15:27 wahanui1 oleonard: I forgot wahanui1
15:27 oleonard wahanui1 is excited and ready for anything!
15:27 rhcl he probably just needs some training
15:27 oleonard wahanui1: wahanui1?
15:27 wahanui1 i am excited and ready for anything! or ready to help!
15:28 wizzyrea oleonard: LOL @ dalek
15:29 oleonard wizzyrea: Except your friends now think I want him to be exterminated!
15:29 wizzyrea hehe unlikely :)
15:35 oleonard kf: Can you describe the kind of query you were doing where a numeric parameter failed?
15:35 oleonard I tried doing one with AND items.itemlost = <<Number>> and it worked
15:42 kf one second
15:44 pastebot0 "kf" at pasted "select concat('<a href="/cgi-b" (12 lines) at
15:45 kf it's one of my reports related to fines and notices
15:45 kf for finding borrowers with things overdue since x days
15:45 kf so you can write them another mail or letter
15:46 oleonard "Seit" ?
15:50 kf Since
15:50 kf sorry, thought I had translated everything
15:51 kf oh, translated to much
15:51 kf OD since = Seit column
16:00 druthb left #koha
16:00 kf bye all and have a nice weekend
16:00 kf left #koha
16:02 chris_n is there a way to mass renew patron accounts from the staff interface?
16:06 paul_p chris_n, not that I know.
16:06 oleonard If there is it must be a closely-guarded secret
16:06 * chris_n thinks there should be
16:06 paul_p but in our queue (sponsored by a new customer) there is a "bulkedit" of patrons ;-)
16:06 chris_n especially for schools :)
16:06 chris_n that might work
16:07 jwagner Our Bug 3468 is patron batch edit as well
16:07 huginn Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3468 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, jwagner, ASSIGNED, Enhanced patron searching, patron batch edit/delete
16:13 * chris_n resorts to a little sql magick on the back end
16:14 chris_n basically we are coordinating our patron accounts with the student id card expiration date
16:14 chris_n makes life easier administratively
16:14 oleonard Sounds like paul_p's batch edit might work well for that
16:14 chris_n yup
16:18 zpinhead joined #koha
16:18 oleonard Hi zpinhead
16:19 zpinhead hi.
16:19 zpinhead druthb suggested i ask about this.
16:19 zpinhead interested in using koha for 'special collections'.
16:19 zpinhead lots of weird requirements.
16:19 zpinhead 1) preserve user information for ever.
16:19 zpinhead (traceability in case of theft, damage)
16:19 zpinhead items always stay in room -- user gives back at end of day
16:20 zpinhead then borrows in room next day.
16:20 zpinhead request items from ead files -- request at level of 'box' or 'folder'
16:20 zpinhead or item.
16:20 zpinhead like this product -- aeon from atlas systems.
16:20 zpinhead
16:22 zpinhead druthb suggested: "If you build the notion of "Container" right, then it'll work for any level of nesting."
16:22 zpinhead folks are talking about buying aeon -- very closed architecture.
16:22 zpinhead windows specific clients.
16:22 zpinhead would much prefer open source, but have no ready alternative.
16:22 zpinhead wondering how hard to do with koha.
16:24 oleonard zpinhead: Would your organization be willing to spend some of the money they'd have spent on Aeon to develop the required functionality for Koha?
16:24 oleonard That may be what is required.
16:24 wizzyrea short term outlay for long term benefit
16:24 wizzyrea and benefits to libraries like yours
16:24 oleonard[…]/Hourly_Loans_RFC
16:25 zpinhead well, i don't know.  but there is a budget, and a non-trivial one,  for yearly maintenance, and initial cost.
16:25 zpinhead aeon is non-trivial cost -- it's more down to how 1) time -- not sure anyone want to wait for dev.
16:26 zpinhead (they have been waiting, like, 30 years, for an adequate solution).
16:26 zpinhead so, from my perspective, what's a few more months.
16:26 zpinhead and 2) can i be persuasive about open source.
16:27 zpinhead my experience with atlas is: flashy windows interface -- poor integration with other tools, very
16:27 zpinhead little api -- sometimes none, and no interest in any.
16:28 wizzyrea sounds like all the worst things about a proprietary ILS
16:29 wizzyrea well, hourly loans are indeed on the horizon, that would help you. Patron records can be kept indefinitely (though probably you'd want to archive them periodically
16:30 * oleonard wonders if hourly loans are delayed or if they're being tested by the sponsor
16:31 wizzyrea wasn't that a sekjal thing?
16:31 wizzyrea or, it is now, anyway?
16:32 sekjal I've got to talk to my funding body, and get some wheels in motion as to implementation plan
16:32 jwagner oleonard, was that directed at me? Our hourly loans feature has still not been approved by the sponsor
16:33 zpinhead oleonard -- not sure they actually have fines for these things -- it's more like, they walk up
16:33 zpinhead to you and ask for it back.  the items never leave the guarded room, they have a map that shows
16:33 zpinhead where each person is sitting, and what that person has borrowed.
16:34 zpinhead @wizzyrea -- exactly.
16:34 huginn zpinhead: I'll give you the answer just as soon as RDA is ready
16:34 wahanui1 i already had it that way, huginn.
16:34 zpinhead and buying something like that now -- what a step back, except that there is no ready alternative.
16:35 wizzyrea well
16:35 wizzyrea you can either pay to be locked in, or pay (maybe a little less overall) to be free
16:36 wizzyrea free to modify, free to migrate, free.
16:36 wizzyrea and, you get an excuse to hang out with us :)
16:37 wizzyrea there is no system in place now
16:37 wizzyrea ?
16:37 brendan__ joined #koha
16:37 oleonard jwagner: No, it wasn't directed at you. I don't expect to ever see any of the LEK stuff out in the wild
16:38 jwagner we haven't given up hope....
16:38 oleonard Two years on?
16:38 jwagner Not quite one year with us
16:38 zpinhead @wizzyrea -- right now for special collections, they have three part forms -- pink, yellow, white,
16:38 huginn zpinhead: downloading the Perl source
16:38 wizzyrea !! paper!
16:39 wizzyrea ignore huginn, he's on a rampage today (he's a bot)
16:39 zpinhead the pink form goes on the shelf (in the vault) to show the item is out, the yellow goes in a box,
16:39 wizzyrea ah, so you'd need additional receipts (or the ability to dupe print receipts) as well
16:39 zpinhead and the white goes in a pocket type organizer that matches the chair numbers where people sit.
16:39 wizzyrea or triplicate paper :P
16:40 wizzyrea for your receipt printer
16:40 zpinhead definitely need to keep the pink for -- very important to have
16:40 zpinhead the shelf form.
16:40 wizzyrea and an impact receipt printer, since the heat ones won't do multicopy receipts
16:40 * wizzyrea goes off on the practicalities of this for a moment... sorry
16:40 zpinhead and they like their 'organizer'  shows at a glance what is where by who.
16:41 zpinhead also need a sort of call slip mechanism -- users request items, and they get 'paged' from
16:41 tcohen left #koha
16:41 zpinhead the vault.
16:42 wizzyrea like holds, but someone gets notified that something needs to be fetched
16:42 wizzyrea ?
16:42 zpinhead right.
16:42 wizzyrea koha can email a librarian every time a hold is placed, iirc
16:42 wizzyrea that, mostly, would depend on how you cataloged your items into koha
16:43 wizzyrea which might take some trial and error
16:43 zpinhead i think, maybe the biggest deal is treating EAD files like giant multi part MARC records.
16:45 wizzyrea yea, that's probably your worst challenge re:koha.
16:46 cait joined #koha
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17:11 snail morning all
17:29 jwagner is now known as jwagner_away
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17:36 hdl left #koha
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18:31 rangi morning
18:33 cait hi rangi
18:33 cait left #koha
18:35 brendan__ left #koha
18:43 hudsonbot Starting build 343 for job Koha_Master (previous build: SUCCESS)
18:46 rangi does this work for people[…]med&namedcmd=5574
18:49 huginn New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 5691 - Delete all items respects independentbranches system preferences <[…]04dfbac882744c3df>
18:49 cait joined #koha
18:50 rangi yay cait
18:50 cait ?
18:50 rangi can you check something for me please?
18:50 rangi does this work for people[…]med&namedcmd=5574
18:50 cait and I thought you were happy to see me... ;)
18:51 rangi of course, i always am
18:51 cait There is no saved search        named '5574'.
18:52 cait what are you working on?
18:52 rangi dang
18:52 rangi trying to figure out how to do public saved searches
18:53 jcamins_away is now known as jcamins
18:54 cait hm
18:55 cait have you checked your preferences page?
18:55 cait oh
18:55 cait i see your shared search there
18:58 rangi ah yeah i just switched it on
18:58 rangi so if you click on it does ti work?
18:59 rangi[…]med&namedcmd=5574  hopefully pasting this url now works too
19:00 oleonard Clicking "run" on the "needs signoff" saved search works
19:00 rangi yay
19:01 rangi and the 5574? if so ill send it to biblibre
19:01 oleonard I don't see a 5574 search
19:01 oleonard That link doesn't work for me either.
19:01 cait rangi: no
19:01 rangi ohh interesting
19:01 rangi i wonder why one does but the other doesnt
19:01 cait the link you pasted does not work
19:02 rangi is there a no status one showing?
19:02 cait he same as before
19:02 cait unknown search
19:02 rangi how odd
19:02 cait in the preferences I see 2 saved public searches: needs sign-off and Koha 3.4 enhancemants from paul
19:03 oleonard And I see, in addition, a "signed off" one from cait
19:03 cait :)
19:04 cait i logged out/in - no change
19:09 rangi wow, mohan is persistent .. .and wrong
19:09 hudsonbot Project Koha_Master build #343: SUCCESS in 26 min: http://hudson.koha-community.o[…]/Koha_Master/343/
19:09 hudsonbot Chris Cormack: Bug 5691 - Delete all items respects independentbranches system preferences
19:13 rangi eek and he uses boxbe
19:13 jcamins What?
19:13 jcamins Sorry, I'm with you now.
19:13 jcamins I thought that was your response to your latest commit. ;)
19:15 cait boxbe?
19:15 rangi means if you send him mail you have to go fill in an online form before he gets it, with a captcha
19:16 rangi tis a pretty over the top anti spam thing, also means that boxbe reads all your mail
19:16 jcamins Oh, I never fill those out when people ask for help on a mailing list.
19:17 rangi yeah
19:17 jcamins They can do without my advice.
19:33 sekjal_away is now known as sekjal
20:01 jcamins Where would I look to find out who the staff person who checked a book out was?
20:02 cait statistics or action_logs
20:02 cait I am quite sure you can see it in the log viewer
20:02 cait I used it to check the self check in the beginning
20:04 jcamins Yeah, that's what I need to do.
20:06 jcamins describe statistics;
20:06 jcamins That's the third time I've done that this week.
20:07 brendan__ joined #koha
20:08 jcamins cait: any chance you have the report you used?
20:09 cait no report
20:09 cait only the log viewer from tools
20:09 jcamins Aww.
20:09 jcamins Oh, I see.
20:09 cait but it should not be hard to find out
20:09 jcamins No, I just figured it out, I think.
20:10 jcamins Oops.
20:10 jcamins Don't do a SELECT DISTINCT on a TEXT field.
20:10 jcamins Just don't.
20:10 jcamins ;)
20:13 jcamins Why is action_logs.action a TEXT field?
20:22 cait don't ask me
20:22 cait I tried to clean up borrowers
20:22 cait but it's an unfinished project :(
20:24 cait and lots of unused columns
20:24 cait ok, time to read a book :)
20:25 cait bye all :)
20:27 cait left #koha
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20:43 jwagner_away is now known as jwagner
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21:05 Brooke_ kia ora
21:16 wizzyrea hi brooke
21:17 Brooke_ :)
21:26 jcamins Does anyone know anything about translated XSLTs not working?
21:26 jcamins We're getting this error, and it seems like I should remember why: /home/koha/kohaclone/koha-tmpl/opac-tmpl/pr​og/hi/xslt/MARC21slim2OPACResults.xsl:264:
21:26 jcamins parser error : Opening and ending tag mismatch: img line 263 and xsl:if </xsl:if>
21:26 jcamins Oops, sorry, I meant that to be on one line.
21:43 jcamins Is it safe to run perl translate fr-FR
21:43 jcamins on a live system?
21:47 snail rolled back COI edit on the LibLime page[…]me&action=history
21:50 snail jcamins looking at that error, it suggests that unclosed images tags, which work fine in HTML but not XSLT
21:50 jcamins snail: I think the problem is that we need to re-run the translate script.
21:50 snail the img tag needs to look like:   <img ...... />
21:50 gmcharlt snail: actually, I think it's a mismatch in the XSLT itself, not an an image tag generated by it
21:51 gmcharlt jcamins: and that sounds plausible
21:51 snail oh, ok, sorry
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