IRC log for #koha, 2010-10-11

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:47 jcamins is now known as jcamins_b
02:21 robin So it turns out that Liberty can't output well-formed CSV files. In other news, my CSV-to-MARC script can now handle badly formed CSV files :)
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02:44 jcamins_b @wunder 11105
02:44 munin jcamins_b: The current temperature in Astoria, Astoria, New York is 19.5�C (10:49 PM EDT on October 10, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 50%. Dew Point: 9.0�C. Pressure: 29.73 in 1006.7 hPa (Steady).
02:44 jcamins_b is now known as jcamins_a
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03:13 RedDragon hola soy cubano, hay alguien que quiera platicar conmigo?
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03:19 richard darn, just as i'd looked up a translation on google
03:28 robin yeah, I did the same :)
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03:51 Amit heya chris
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05:12 mib_hub1l hello
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05:57 chris @wunder Wellington nz
05:57 munin chris: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 9.0�C (6:00 PM NZDT on October 11, 2010). Conditions: Rain Showers. Humidity: 93%. Dew Point: 8.0�C. Pressure: 30.51 in 1033 hPa (Rising).
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06:21 mib_8fv8w hi! all
06:24 mib_8fv8w im installing koha on debian lenny i have a problem my system always out of memory
06:25 mib_8fv8w did somebody know how to resolve this kind of problem
06:27 mib_8fv8w pls. help me
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06:50 chris mib_8fv8w: that sounds like a linux problem, you might be better off asking on a linux specific forum
06:50 chris evening all
06:59 paul_p morning from Europe chris
06:59 paul_p D-9 before takeoff :D
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07:01 ivanc good morning #koha
07:02 magnus g'day #koha
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07:05 mib_8m3l9 hi all
07:06 mib_8m3l9 we opened the ports for z39.50, but some securtiy threat persists
07:07 mib_8m3l9 how can I secure our server from security reasons while keeping open ports for z39.50
07:09 chris thats a linux question, not really a koha one, you are better off asking that in a linux specific forum, im unsure what threat you have by opening on outbound port to  a specific ip
07:10 chris paul_p: not long now ;)
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07:11 cait hi #koha
07:11 ivanc guten morgen cait
07:11 cait hi ivanc
07:14 mib_8m3l9 chris: our system administrator said, that these ports breaches serious types of security
07:14 mib_8m3l9 asked any koha user, who have implemented koha with setting securtiy also
07:23 hdl hi chris.
07:24 mib_8fv8w when i check the process that is the result   2957 www-data  20   0  112m  27m 4024 R   14  1.4  26:19.85
07:24 cait hi hdl and chris
07:25 hdl hi cait.
07:26 chris mib_8m3l9: can your system administrator tell you why those ports breach security? if all you have listening on them is a z3950 server, there has to be something listening on a port for anything to happne, open ports with nothing listening to them isnt a problem so surely the number of the port has nothing to do with it, its more whats listening on that number
07:29 mib_8fv8w all the process is 3184 www-data  20   0 97664  25m 4024 R   13  1.3  10:40.86
07:32 mib_8fv8w when i check free -m just like this koha:~# free -m  total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached Mem:          1990       1863        127          0          7         89 -/+ buffers/cache:       1765        224
07:32 mib_8fv8w the memory free is 127mb
07:32 mib_8m3l9 chris: ok
07:39 mib_8fv8w if i restarted the system the size is going normal but the the client is going to login the memory will become smaller until the system is become slow because is out of memory
07:42 chris mib_8fv8w: maybe reduce the number of threads apache starts
07:44 mib_8fv8w right now i restarted my koha system because the memory free is almost 48mb.
07:44 chris you probably need to tune your apache, to open less threads
07:45 mib_8fv8w maybe
07:45 mib_8fv8w did you know how to tune up
07:47 chris nope, you would be better off asking on an apache forum or a linux one
07:48 mib_8fv8w ah ok]
07:49 mib_8fv8w hi chris where are you from?
07:50 chris new zealand
07:51 mib_8fv8w me philippines
07:51 mib_8fv8w thnks for helping me.
07:52 chris no problem
07:58 mib_8fv8w chris are you  the one developer on koha system
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08:00 mib_8fv8w im switching koha 3 months ago but before im using hunter system.
08:00 mib_8fv8w i like koha but my problem i am newbie in linux.
08:01 CGI938 hello. somebody help. i installed koha on windows and i need to connect to it remotely. i was able to connect to it by using the ip address (e.g. http://172.xx.x.x) but it always connects me to the opac but i want to connect to the admin part of the koha not the opac. anybody help, it wil be deeply appreciated. thanks. Eugene librarian from the Philippines
08:03 ivanc CGI938: apache is installed correctly?
08:06 mib_8fv8w is now known as jovax
08:07 jovax hi chris still there?
08:07 CGI938 yes it is i was able to connect to it but opac is the default
08:08 CGI938 i want to connect to the admin part remotely
08:10 jovax check the virtual host opac 172.x.x.x:80  , admin 172.x.x.x:8080
08:11 ivanc look ad address 172.x ... is the loopback device
08:12 jovax just example
08:12 ivanc s/172/127/
08:12 CGI938 thanks jovax
08:12 CGI938 will try
08:12 jovax no problem
08:13 CGI938 still can't connect 172.xx.x.x:80 am able to connect to opac
08:13 CGI938 while 172.xx.x.x:8080 unable to connect
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08:19 cait CGI938: which version of koha have you installed?
08:20 CGI938 2.2.9 which is working in windows
08:23 slef I thought the windows one used 8080, but can you connect locally to the admin?
08:35 CGI938 yes i can connect locally. i can't connect remotely to the admin but can connect remotely to opac
08:35 CGI938 is it possible to connect remotely to the admin which the koha is installed in windows
08:43 CGI938 is it possible to connect remotely to the admin which the koha is installed in windows?
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08:48 CGI938 anybody help with my query on connecting remotely to windows server of koha. thanks
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08:58 CGI938 gtg guys thanks for answering my queries..
08:58 CGI938 tomorrow again
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11:15 magnus @wunder bodo, norway
11:15 munin magnus: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 6.0�C (12:50 PM CEST on October 11, 2010). Conditions: Light Rain Showers. Humidity: 76%. Dew Point: 2.0�C. Windchill: 1.0�C. Pressure: 29.89 in 1012 hPa (Steady).
11:16 * magnus has a fire going in the livingroom...
11:16 nengard magnus that sounds lovely
11:17 nengard the fire - not the cold outside ;)
11:17 magnus :-)
11:31 cait hi magnus and nengard
11:31 magnus hiya cait
11:32 nengard hiya cait
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11:56 cait bye all :)
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11:57 chris_n` is now known as chris_n
11:57 nengard morning chris_n
11:57 chris_n heya nengard
11:57 nengard morning wasabit and collum too!
12:02 gmcharlt good morning
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12:04 owen Hi everyone
12:05 * owen pops in for a few minutes before a grueling all-day staff meeting begins
12:12 nengard that sounds terrible
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12:13 owen It usually is :)
12:13 nengard one of the things i dont miss about being in the library :) all day staff meetings (specifically those that were supposed to be 1 hour)
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13:09 larsw nengard, hey, sympathies and cheers!
13:09 nengard hi lars
13:18 jcamins_a is now known as jcamins
13:18 jcamins Good morning, #koha
13:26 jcamins All-day staff meetings... ick.
13:41 nengard koha demo time - be back alter
13:41 nengard later
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13:47 jcamins I think I may have a sponsorship for a non-MARC cataloging entry form.
13:48 slef non-MARC?
13:49 jcamins Yes. Something that looks more like a citation manager interface.
13:49 jcamins So that a user doesn't have to know that the ISBN goes in 020.
13:50 slef So that a user doesn't have to know that the ISBN goes in 020 labelled "INTERNATIONAL STANDARD BOOK NUMBER"? :-/
13:50 jcamins I will be doing nothing with the underlying data storage.
13:50 jcamins Well, that one's pretty straightforward, actually.
13:50 jcamins Bad example.
13:50 jcamins A better example would be 300a.
13:51 jcamins "Physical description - Extent"... what?
13:51 slef I am sceptical about simplified cataloguing. I think Koha used to have it and the MARC-linked one became far more widely used for a reason.
13:51 jcamins I know what it means, and I still have no idea what the word "extent" means in this context.
13:51 slef It means the extent, doesn't it?
13:51 jcamins Oh, yes. Librarians much prefer to use MARC.
13:51 slef Like number of pages?
13:51 slef @marc 300$a
13:51 munin slef: unknown tag 300$a
13:52 slef @marc 300 a
13:52 munin slef: Extent The number of pages, volumes, cassettes, total playing time, etc., of the described item. (Repeatable)
13:52 jcamins Yeah, as I said, I know what it means, but I would never know to define "extent" as "number of pages" if you didn't include the phrase "300 a." ;)
13:52 slef now I'm no librarian, but that seems straightforward to me
13:52 jcamins It may just be that "extent" isn't a word that I've ever heard used, then.
13:53 slef extent has many meanings... it's not the most common one, but it's valid
13:54 jcamins Okay, so maybe that's not such a good example either. (note to self: try and use "extent" in conversations more)
13:54 slef Anyway, what I'm trying to express is that I'm a bit ambivalent about helping people to catalogue without learning a little cataloguing terminology because it may result in poor-quality catalogues and Koha getting blamed for it.
13:55 jcamins I think there would have to be a note to the effect that "this interface is limited to only the most basic data entry."
13:56 slef Probably flag something in the record to say "this is incomplete and you should either complete it or use any other MARC record in preference"
13:56 jcamins Yeah.
13:56 slef @marc 005
13:56 munin slef: Sixteen characters that indicate the date and time of the latest record transaction and serve as a version identifier for the record. They are recorded according to Representation of Dates and Times (ISO 8601). The date requires 8 numeric characters in the pattern yyyymmdd. The time requires 8 numeric characters in the pattern hhmmss.f, expressed in terms of the 24-hour (00-23) clock. []
13:56 slef that's not the one I was trying to remember :)
13:56 jcamins LDR/17
13:57 jcamins Have it always set to '5' with this interface.
13:57 slef anyway, if you note something like that in the RFC or Enh, I'll be happy
13:57 jcamins Sounds good.
13:58 jcamins It'll probably be a few days before I write the RFC, and somewhat longer before I can actually start working on it, but for my clients, at least, this will be a much-wanted feature.
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14:28 wizzyrea has anybody installed from the tarball?
14:28 wizzyrea did you have trouble with Authen:CAS:Client
14:28 wizzyrea or whatever it is
14:32 jcamins Our server doesn't have it.
14:33 jcamins (currently on
14:34 slef wizzyrea: not yet. It's on my todo but so is the world. :-/
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14:39 trea hello koha folk. i'm having a problem installling koha. can you help?
14:41 trea i'm using debian 2.6.26-2-686, and am attempting an install of the release candidate (i'm helping to test) and I have gotten all the way to the web installer portion of the documentation. However, it says that PDF::API2::Simple  is missing.
14:42 trea i've run apt-get install libpdf-api2-perl, and it says that the package already exists; furthermore when I attempt to install this package via CPAN I get the following errors:
14:42 trea Can't locate inc/Module/ in @INC (@INC contains: /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/perl/5.10.0 /usr/local/share/perl/5.10.0 /usr/lib/perl5 /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.10 /usr/share/perl/5.10 /usr/local/lib/site_perl .) at Makefile.PL line 1.
14:42 trea BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at Makefile.PL line 1.
14:42 trea Warning: No success on command[/usr/bin/perl Makefile.PL INSTALLDIRS=site]
14:42 trea REDTREE/PDF-API2-Simple-1.1.4u.tar.gz
14:42 trea /usr/bin/perl Makefile.PL INSTALLDIRS=site -- NOT OK
14:43 jcamins trea: try sudo apt-get install libmodule-install-perl
14:44 trea thanks jcamins, i'll let you know the result
14:44 wizzyrea jcamins: is that one that we need to add to the installer?
14:44 wizzyrea the package installer I mean (maybe we did and I have weekend amnesia)
14:45 jcamins wizzyrea: yes, I thought we did that.
14:45 jcamins I'll check...
14:45 wizzyrea k cool. So it's just the tarball that's mucked atm then
14:45 trea AHA! that got it!
14:45 trea thanks jcamins!
14:46 jcamins Hm.
14:46 jcamins wizzyrea: I could have sworn we added it, but I can't find the patch.
14:47 jcamins Oh, I never got the patch from you.
14:47 jcamins Actually, I'm not sure I've gotten any patches at all.
14:48 trea alright, my koha install finished, and now I must goto a staff meeting. thanks again for your help
14:50 jcamins thd is so diplomatic. "Somewhat antiquated."
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15:15 jcamins How do you rebase onto a tag?
15:15 jcamins git rebase v3.00.06?
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15:33 jcamins What text editor does one use on a completely vanilla Debian installation?
15:36 slef nano, vi or ed I think
15:36 jcamins ed! That's the one I forgot about.
15:36 jcamins nano doesn't appear to come installed by default.
15:36 jcamins Thanks.
15:36 slef oh wait
15:36 slef /etc/alternatives/editor should get you the best possible
15:37 slef also editor or sensible-editor
15:37 jcamins Cool, thanks.
15:37 slef just remember it's debian :)
15:38 jcamins I always use vi, but it has occurred to me that most librarians probably wouldn't know how to use it.
15:38 Elwell_ unkind. (but sadly true)
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15:40 jcamins That doesn't seem unkind to me. Merely an observation that the majority of librarians were doing library-related things in 1984, not reading Introducing the Unix System. ;)
15:41 slef ed and vi have their place.  It's probably 1984.
15:42 jcamins Yes, but if that's what I can rely on being on *any* Debian server, that's what I'm going to recommend learning.
15:57 paul_p nengard, mail from me in your mailbox
15:57 paul_p (good morning USA !)
15:57 nengard paul_p good morning - heading over there now
15:57 paul_p nengard, it's 6Pm in France, not really morning anymore :D
15:58 nengard actually not morning here anymore either - where did the time go!!
15:58 paul_p right...
15:59 slef jcamins: I'm pretty sure nano is in most debian tasks. It all depends what you mean by "vanilla".
16:00 jcamins Whatever you end up with after running the Debian installer according to the Koha installation instructions.
16:00 wizzyrea I always find that I need build-essentials and nano and ssh when I install
16:01 wizzyrea the bad thing is that the install instructions assume a spanky new debian install
16:01 wizzyrea but I suppose that an admin competent enough to already be running a debian server probably wouldn't have much trouble with koha
16:01 jcamins Isn't that a good thing? It means it won't ask for anything you don't have.
16:09 jcamins nengard: do you mean for collection-level records, or records for individual letters, etc.?
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16:14 wizzyrea hmm, I'm looking at the currently selected default data
16:14 wizzyrea for an installation
16:14 nengard jcamins - are you asking about my email?
16:15 nengard the person who asked me just asked if I have any examples of people using Koha to catalog archives
16:15 nengard paul_p - email coming your way
16:15 wizzyrea I feel like holidays, item types, sample news, z servers, and authorized values ought to be optional, but checked by default
16:15 jcamins nengard: yes.
16:16 jcamins Okay, I'll assume it's collection-level records that are of interest, and respond to that.
16:16 wizzyrea and the message transports!
16:16 nengard thanks jcamins
16:17 wizzyrea maybe we need to define a "suggested" install.
16:17 nengard wizzyrea i agree with all except item types
16:17 nengard most libraries have their own and it's not as simple as clicking 'delete all' to get rid of the defaults
16:17 wizzyrea that's fair
16:17 nengard which brings up a feature I'd like to see in many more places - checkboxes and delete checked options :)
16:18 nengard anywhere we have individual delete links
16:18 wizzyrea ^^ YES
16:18 * wizzyrea is reminded about one of her annoyances with the label creator
16:19 nengard my biggest complaint is with the framework editor
16:19 wizzyrea I think I'll file a bug about that, it bears discusison I think
16:19 wizzyrea frameworks are another one
16:19 nengard that one has a bug already
16:19 nengard frameworks
16:19 nengard i'll fidn it
16:19 wizzyrea I'd like to see "Suggested"
16:19 nengard find
16:20 wizzyrea I mean, what should be checked for sample data
16:20 wizzyrea it should all be optional, but I think we should suggest some.
16:20 wizzyrea (well not all optional, there's obviously mandatory stuff)
16:21 nengard can't find it - i know i reported it though ... gonna report it again :)
16:21 nengard i like that idea - 'suggested'
16:21 slef wizzyrea: why can't I edit your pages or contact you about them except in public? I think I wanted to fix the nabble mailing list archive link and stop it going to spam.
16:22 slef I can edit nengard-created pages AFAICT.
16:22 nengard i can't edit wizzyrea's pages either :) i think it's cause she's logged in as an admin when she writes them
16:25 wizzyrea yes, sorry I will fix that
16:28 wizzyrea it's going to take me a little bit to catch them all, but that particular page should be ready for your edit.
16:31 wizzyrea slef: please let me know if you run across any others like that, I'll fix them. There are a few pages I've done special tricks on to make things work, that I don't want people to edit, but most everything else is fair game.
16:32 slef wizzyrea: am I overlooking an easy way to contact you from/about the site?
16:33 wizzyrea nope, I will add that too.
16:34 slef I went to pick a random email address for you off the list, but got interrupted before I got there.
16:34 nengard k - lunch time - will be back soon
16:34 wizzyrea fwiw you can always email or
16:34 wizzyrea :)
16:35 wizzyrea zoinks! almost lunchtime here too! where did this morning go!
16:36 paul_p bon... time to go back home. See you tomorrow #biblibre (for a D-8 before take off :D )
16:36 paul_p s/#biblibre/#koha/ sorry ;-)
16:37 wizzyrea paul_p: you leave tomorrow?
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16:37 paul_p wizzyrea, no, in 8 days ;-)
16:37 wizzyrea OH derrr
16:37 slef wizzyrea: I have no memory capacity spare :)
16:37 wizzyrea I have D-4 :D:D:D
16:38 paul_p 19oct => to Kuala Lumpur, 1 day in KL, then to Auck
16:38 slef D-8 here too. I think.
16:38 slef I really should check my details :)
16:38 paul_p slef you'd better... missing your plane would be ... quite annoying :D
16:38 slef paul_p: I have help.
16:38 paul_p this time, bye !
16:38 slef ciao
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16:39 wizzyrea bye paul_p
16:39 * wizzyrea gets little butterflies everytime she thinks about the possibility of missing the plane
16:39 wizzyrea more like buzzing hornets
16:40 jcamins I missed a flight from London to Salzburg when I was Eurail-ing around Europe.
16:40 jcamins We didn't know that DST is different in the UK than in the US.
16:41 jcamins That was very stressful.
16:42 nengard D-9
16:42 slef jcamins: as in switchover date?
16:42 jcamins Right.
16:43 nengard if we're talking about days until we leave :)
16:43 slef jcamins: UK is with EU, has been for a few years but I think I remember when it wasn't.
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16:45 slef as in synchronisation of DST dates
16:46 jcamins Now, of course, DST in the States is even weirder.
16:47 SJeffery Don't forget that some of us don't follow that crazy DST thing.
16:48 jcamins SJeffery: and very sensible of you, too.
16:49 SJeffery On the downside, there is still quite a bit of software out there that doesn't support an Arizona time zone (including one of the major forum packages).
16:56 wizzyrea jcamins, can I send you a patch to see if you can apply it?
16:57 slef Talking of forums, does someone here have a Nabble2 login?
16:57 wizzyrea with my recent patch formatting stupidity I don't want to send it to the list :/
16:58 jcamins wizzyrea: sure.
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17:07 jcamins Yay! owen survived!
17:08 owen Just coming up for air
17:08 jcamins Okay, well, yay! owen's not dead yet!
17:09 nengard wizzyrea what happened to the patch i was proofing?
17:11 nengard hi owen!!
17:11 nengard how's it going?
17:13 owen I get to sit out the discussion of health insurance because I'm covered by my wife's
17:14 slef #weLoveTheNHS
17:15 * owen can only hope... some day...
17:15 slef I remember being told that US spends 16% on health. I wonder how much higher it would be if costs of such discussions were included?
17:16 owen Unfortunately rationality doesn't have much part in the politics of it
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17:18 chris morning
17:18 slef Oh well. Let's use silly posters then.[…]&oid=249360150703
17:18 larsw hi, chirs
17:18 slef hi chris
17:18 larsw er, chris
17:18 chris heh
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17:21 nengard slef that's funny
17:21 nengard hi chris
17:24 slef my XSLT's performance must suck. It's much slower than the much longer one I downloaded
17:24 jcamins slef: are you using axes?
17:28 slef jcamins: as in? (save me looking up)
17:29 jcamins preceding-sibling:: is the really inefficient one, but t I'm pretty sure following-sibling:: and ancestor:: are also slow.
17:29 slef I've a xsl:template match='node()[@tag="nnn"]' and a match='@*|node()' and that's all.
17:30 slef hrm, do I need a match on the last xsl:template?
17:30 jcamins Hm. I'm not an expert, but I can't see why that would be slow.
17:34 jcamins @karma xslt
17:34 munin jcamins: Karma for "xslt" has been increased 3 times and decreased 4 times for a total karma of -1.
17:34 jcamins Heh. I kind of figured that xslt would have negative karma.
17:41 SJeffery *facepalms at the most recent blog post*
17:41 slef SJeffery: which?
17:42 SJeffery The PTFS/Liblime one
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17:43 slef ah. Yes.
17:43 slef Lots of facepalming about that over the weekend.
17:43 SJeffery This is why I don't log in over the weekend, I get it all on monday:D
17:45 jcamins But then you are catching up until mid-afternoon.
17:45 nengard wish i hadn'ed logged in this weekend....
17:45 nengard yikes- can't type
17:45 slef I was at a conference on Saturday. Might as well login in the dull talk. (Shush, don't tell anyone their talk was dull.)
17:45 nengard wish I hadn't logged in this weekend...
17:45 slef nengard: you are channelling me. Be afraid.
17:46 nengard hehe
17:47 nengard larsw wrote a lovely post :
17:47 slef ok, what's the current quick way to delete someone's whole never-used catalogue? delete all rows in biblio, biblioitems, items, issues... what else?
17:47 slef I could drop the db and reload, but I'm being lazy :)
17:48 schuster left #koha
17:48 slef heh, I could have written lars's post from what I've read so far
17:49 jcamins larsw++
17:49 slef "Tags for this page: koha  rant"
17:50 chris slef: thats about it, if its never used ... if it has been used delete rows in statistics too
17:50 slef chris: ta.
17:51 slef larsw++
17:51 slef chris++
17:51 slef mmm, was http://library-matters.blogspo[…]ive-and-well.html really only a week ago?
17:52 chris its like a premonition
17:52 chris i must ask jo the lotto numbers
17:54 chris bbiab
17:56 nengard hehe
17:56 nengard one commentor felt that Jo's post caused all this
17:56 nengard commentor on my post
17:56 slef If you'd like more anti-corporate rhetoric,
17:57 slef[…]-1.html#codes0326 for a much shorter version.
18:05 chris_n larsw++
18:05 chris_n chris++
18:06 chris_n ptfs--
18:06 * chris_n suddenly realizes he already said that last line once in this discussion
18:10 sekjal joined #koha
18:12 jcamins Looks like chris will now have company from other bus-riding #koha-ers.
18:15 slef I haven't.
18:15 slef ptfs--
18:15 slef jcamins: ??
18:15 jcamins sekjal is signed in from his Android phone.
18:16 jcamins ;)
18:16 jcamins I figure that one wouldn't sign in while driving, walking, or biking, and there's generally no phone reception on subways, which leaves the bus.
18:16 jcamins Or the train.
18:16 slef oic
18:17 SJeffery 11:30am on a Monday and the day is already a cluster...a sign of the week ahead perhaps?
18:17 slef so if we successfully exploit his host now, we get to make phone calls?
18:17 slef SJeffery: speak for yourself.
18:17 wizzyrea mua hahahahaha
18:17 slef SJeffery: it's 1930 here. :)
18:17 sekjal out at lunch, actually. but was missing #koha
18:17 slef sekjal: we miss you too!
18:18 jcamins SJeffery: I'm going to go with "yes."
18:18 wizzyrea hehe one time I attended an IRC meeting from a restaurant
18:18 slef ooooh I've done that
18:18 slef annoyed the hell out of my wife
18:18 slef won't do it again
18:18 wizzyrea *giggle*
18:18 jcamins Although actually, I shouldn't be so pessimistic... my wife hasn't gotten sick again yet, so it looks like this week our apartment is mostly mold-less.
18:19 wizzyrea fortunately I was with coworkers that time, and they didn't require my attention
18:19 jcamins slef: Not having a smartphone, I'm safe from that particular sin. ;)
18:19 wizzyrea no way I could do that whilst out to dinner with my family
18:19 sekjal I'm on my own. my wife has to work at home today, and wanted me to get some air
18:19 slef jcamins: mold, the permanent battle of wet climates.
18:19 wizzyrea read : GTFO
18:19 wizzyrea lol
18:19 SJeffery Has anyone (relatively recently) written an overview of all the goings-ons with PTFS vs all?
18:20 slef SJeffery: I was reading one earlier, not sure how recent, but from my point of view little has changed recently.
18:22 slef ah no, the one I was reading was from Harley's release
18:22 wizzyrea imo it probably needs to go back to what happened even before kohacon last year
18:22 wizzyrea starting with the open letter, or even before
18:22 slef I'm not sure anyone reported the last evil action[…]10-08-28#i_492736
18:22 SJeffery I keep hearing bits and pieces, but have not run across anything comprehensive that can be used to show someone what is going on.
18:23 nengard sekjal when i travel i'm usually eating dinner with wizzyrea and chris on IM :)
18:23 nengard meaning I chat with them while i'm eating alone
18:23 slef SJeffery: I'll help answer, but even through I work for the co-op, we're open to the "you would say that because you're competing" accusation so I won't post it myself.
18:24 wizzyrea < can't really say much either.
18:25 slef I thought you worked for a library group?
18:25 * slef looks up wizzyrea
18:25 * jcamins must also recuse himself
18:26 slef I'll write a "here's what we've seen" if it's useful to the community, but I can only handle so much crap being flung in my direction at once.
18:26 nengard wizzyrea does work for a library group - a library group who get support (in theory) from said company
18:26 slef ah! I see!
18:26 slef Awkward position.
18:27 SJeffery We are a future customer of said company, so I guess I have to prevent myself from reading it then!
18:27 slef I'm still mopping up after falling out with kados, like 2 or 3 years ago.
18:27 slef SJeffery: future customer?  If you've not signed, there's time to shop around, surely?
18:28 SJeffery *shrug* Not really up to me.
18:31 wizzyrea updated install docs, please look them over?
18:31 slef such a shame, but fairly common
18:31 jcamins slef: I think you mean "very."
18:31 slef jcamins: very common?
18:31 slef wizzyrea: looking.
18:32 jcamins If that was in response to "not really up to me," yes, I think the adverb you want is "very" common.
18:32 slef wizzyrea: "1.1 Install Debian Lenny via Businesscard CD" needs some hint on what installation options/tasks to choose.
18:32 jcamins wizzyrea: wait, check with chris about the IndexData repos.
18:33 wizzyrea didn't touch any of that stuff, what specifically would you like to address?
18:33 wizzyrea (slef)
18:33 slef wizzyrea: 1.2 should use wget -O- | sudo apt-key add - (avoids leaving indexdata.asc junk lying around)
18:33 sekjal SJeffery: we'll do what we can to help, but if they wind up putting you in something not-Koha, there'll only be so much we can do
18:33 slef wizzyrea: which bit should I be looking at then?
18:33 jcamins Yesterday chris said something about it not being necessary on the latest versions.
18:33 wizzyrea sorry, I just mean I didn't change that part from the original
18:33 wizzyrea what do you want it to say?
18:35 gmcharlt jcamins: chris: not sure about that - I don't see idzebra in the regular Debian package search
18:35 slef wizzyrea: without installing lenny from a businesscard CD, I don't know what it should say, sorry :-/
18:35 slef - it's in squeeze but not lenny
18:35 slef or it should be in squeeze
18:36 slef all hail the release managers
18:36 slef they control the horizontal
18:36 wizzyrea right, these are for lenny (since it's stable)
18:36 jcamins gmcharlt: oh, then maybe it was just for the latest version of Ubuntu.
18:36 wizzyrea i'd imagine we'd have a different install_misc/ when the time comes
18:37 SJeffery sekjal: Nah, worst case scenerio is they force us to use SharePoint for our library catalog as "it can do everything we need." *facepalm*
18:37 wizzyrea >.<
18:37 sekjal oh dear.
18:37 slef no, we'll nuke apt-get-debian-*sh from orbit when the time comes :)
18:38 wizzyrea cool.
18:38 slef SJeffery: please don't curse.  SharePoint indeed.
18:38 jcamins wizzyrea: much improved!
18:39 slef those install docs - is there a reason why we use cpan instead of deb-make-perl in 1.5?  That's another thing in my todo...
18:39 sekjal alright, lunch is done. time to enjoy some of this lovely fall day. take care, all!
18:40 slef lovely? fall? day??
18:40 wizzyrea the reason is that my goal wasn't to change *how* it works, just to make sure that they are at least a little less cryptic. :)
18:41 slef wizzyrea: ok, I'm a bad person to look as I didn't think they were too cryptic before.  Buggy other ways.
18:41 slef jcamins: I'm not sure about "very". Can we agree on "too"?
18:41 sekjal left #koha
18:41 jcamins slef: sure.
18:42 wizzyrea They weren't cryptic to sysadmins, but most librarians aren't sysadmins.
18:42 wizzyrea and the ones that are, won't have any more trouble with these than they did with the old ones.
18:43 jcamins Although the instructions still make the assumption that the person following the instructions will be able to deal with the text editor with crontab -e.
18:43 wizzyrea well, that's not really up to me, actually, that's why I asked for a double check
18:43 jcamins (not that I'm proposing an alternative, just commenting)
18:43 jcamins (I think the updated instructions are great)
18:43 wizzyrea true, how best to address that though?
18:43 wizzyrea (I like commentary)
18:44 wizzyrea (and I won't be insulted, I promise)
18:44 jcamins My preferred solution is banging my head against the desk until I forget about the problem, but if everyone here did that, there wouldn't be any Koha anymore.
18:44 jcamins ;)
18:44 wizzyrea lol
18:44 wizzyrea fair enough.
18:45 slef fun facts: 20% of Brits are members of co-ops. In the USA, it's 25%. NZ 40%
18:45 gmcharlt jcamins: you're correct about Ubuntu:[…]words=idzebra-2.0
18:45 jcamins I guess looking ahead to 3.4, Makefile.PL should generate a default crontab which can be installed with crontab $FILE
18:46 jcamins Yeah, cait was installing Koha on Ubuntu over the weekend, and we got stuck because the wrong version of yaz was in the IndexData repository.
18:47 slef Quebec wins with 70%. For countries, Finland with 62%.
18:52 jcamins Do we have any "Koha database structure for dummies" page?
18:52 wizzyrea only the schema from git really
18:53 jcamins That's what I thought.
18:53 slef jcamins: we have chris
18:54 slef and the rest of us know bits
18:54 wizzyrea yikes, we have a serious bus problem.
18:54 slef and can figure things out from the source
18:54 * jcamins adds writing "Koha database structures for report writers" to his to-do list.
18:54 wizzyrea even worse since he's always around buses!
18:54 nengard wasn't someone going to add notes to those tables so that we knew what each one was for?
18:54 slef Was tajoli going to do that
18:54 slef ?
18:55 slef nengard: can you find it or shall I?
18:55 chris There is a schema on thw wiki
18:55 slef chris: current?
18:55 slef chris: and with regeneration instructions?
18:55 nengard slef i can find it
18:55 jcamins It says it's for 3.0.3.
18:55 nengard ---------- Forwarded message ----------
18:55 nengard From: Linda Culberson <>
18:55 nengard Date: Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 2:20 PM
18:55 nengard Subject: Re: [Koha] Koha Cataloging Archives
18:55 nengard To:
18:56 nengard Cc: koha <>
18:56 nengard There are three standards central to archival description: DACS
18:56 nengard (Describing Archives: A Content Standard), MARC, and Encoded Archival
18:56 nengard Description (EAD). Koha can handle 2 out of three, plus allow us to
18:56 nengard track in-house use of our materials and link to digitized copies of the
18:56 chris Eek
18:56 nengard originals where they exist.   So, I like Koha.
18:56 nengard The real problem we have with Koha is the lack of analytic record
18:56 nengard support  ([…]ic_Record_support )
18:56 slef nengard: ???
18:56 nengard because many of our collections have item-level descriptions which are
18:56 jcamins Oh, wait, never mind.
18:56 nengard handled as analytics.  We also have a number of journals which have
18:56 nengard analytic records for specific articles in certain issues and we need to
18:56 nengard be able to tie the analytic record to the particular issue of the
18:56 slef where's an op when we need one?
18:56 chris Paste fail
18:56 nengard serial's record.
18:56 nengard Another problem is that Koha seems to only allow for the borrower to
18:56 nengard make only one hold request per title - a real problem with serials (and
18:56 nengard collections with linked item level analytical records)  - because a
18:56 nengard person may really want to see the Spring and Fall issues of 1994 and the
18:56 SJeffery Oh god, not the analytic discussion again.
18:56 nengard Summer issue of 1995 of a serial.  Hopefully, I'm wrong about this being
18:56 nengard a problem and somebody can tell me how to do this?
18:56 nengard On a personal note, I  would be very interested in sharing ideas with
18:56 nengard was kicked by chris: nengard
18:56 nengard joined #koha
18:56 nengard other archives or libraries with archival materials about how to best
18:56 nengard use Koha for archival collections.
18:56 nengard Thanks for asking, Nicole!
18:56 chris Gah
18:56 nengard Linda
18:56 slef auto-rejoin fail
18:56 nengard was kicked by wizzyrea: nengard
18:56 nengard oops
18:56 nengard so sorry!!!
18:57 nengard[…]_for_3.4_Proposal
18:57 nengard i thought i copied th URL and didn't
18:57 chris Hehe remove the ban now :)
18:57 nengard joined #koha
18:57 nengard what happened?
18:57 wizzyrea I banned you!
18:57 magnus heh, would love to see te expression on nengards face now... ;-)
18:57 trea ?!?!?!
18:57 slef nengard: you need a better client that doesn't send lines until you *press* enter.
18:58 nengard nengard is making a confused face
18:58 wizzyrea but I still love you
18:58 nengard slef - i did hit enter
18:58 nengard i was moving to fast for myself
18:58 wizzyrea I was trying to stop the paste speeeeew.
18:58 nengard hehe
18:58 magnus wizzyrea: we all do! ;-)
18:58 slef ah right, PEBCAK
18:58 SJeffery I think we need to open #kohanalytics or something:D
18:58 chris Hehe
18:58 slef SJeffery: no, let's make an email list.
18:58 slef SJeffery: I think we should abbreviate it to 8 characters to reduce typing.
18:59 slef SJeffery: koha-anal@lists.koha-community... anyone?
18:59 wizzyrea ROFL
18:59 slef 8 letters I mean
18:59 SJeffery Nah, e-mail is so not web 2.0-ish. We need to create some sort of Twitter-mashup-wiki-Friendster kind of thing.
18:59 nengard so what i meant to paste was the url to the db documentation spec:[…]_for_3.4_Proposal
18:59 slef SJeffery: let's start using the hashtag #kohaAnal
18:59 SJeffery Slef: I think that name would be entirely appropriate.
18:59 trea
18:59 gmcharlt SJeffery: #koha-linky-recs ?
19:00 wizzyrea oh that made me laugh a lot
19:00 slef gmcharlt: #kohaaaaaargh for PTFS blog posts?
19:00 jcamins The problem with schema diagrams is that they only help if you know a fair amount about RDBMSes.
19:00 wizzyrea @quote add slef: #kohaaaaargh for PTFS blog posts?
19:00 munin wizzyrea: The operation succeeded.  Quote #99 added.
19:01 chris Ask away jcamins
19:01 chris Then write it down
19:01 chris So I don't have to remember it :)
19:02 jcamins chris: the problem is that I understand it, and I'm trying to document how to deal with reports for people who don't understand it.
19:02 francharb left #koha
19:02 chris gmcharlt knows at least as much as me too
19:02 jcamins I mean, I don't understand *everything*, but I understand the basics.
19:02 chris Yeah that's a tricky problem
19:03 slef gtg, bbl
19:03 SJeffery Solution: Make the reports function a lot easier to use so less has to be documented?
19:03 slef SJeffery: how do you document a swiss army chainsaw?
19:03 jcamins SJeffery: that's a good idea. Think it'll be done by October 15? ;)
19:04 SJeffery Sure! I will just have my small army of trained gorillas work on it (I tried monkeys, but there was far too much flinging going on that was starting to impact productivity).
19:05 SJeffery Same problem with using interns.
19:06 chris I hope I have more success with the 2 working on koha at catalyst
19:06 * chris doesn't want flinging
19:06 jcamins Our interns are fantastic.
19:07 SJeffery Oh god that reminds me I have a long-term temp starting next month *shudder*
19:07 jcamins Of course, I have the good sense not to ask them to overhaul any swiss army chainsaws.
19:07 jcamins ;)
19:07 chris I'm sure they will be fine, nice ppl and smart
19:08 nengard k - time to head out - be back later
19:08 nengard left #koha
19:11 chris Oh well one of them is overhauling the whole templating system
19:12 jcamins Koha's other swiss army chainsaw.
19:12 chris :)
19:12 jcamins (I really like that phrase)
19:19 jcamins Time to close up.
19:19 jcamins Good night, #koha
19:20 jcamins is now known as jcamins_a
19:20 chris Cya
19:21 chris Ok my stop bbiab
19:24 magnus left #koha
19:31 chris back
19:32 wizzyrea @quote add chris: well, one of them is overhauling the whole templating system jcamins: Koha's other swiss army chainsaw
19:32 munin wizzyrea: The operation succeeded.  Quote #100 added.
19:32 wizzyrea woot I got quote 100!
19:32 wizzyrea @quote random
19:32 munin wizzyrea: Quote #37: "< nelsonf> I'm pretty sure I deleted this one in the name of being thorough..." (added by chris at 07:27 PM, October 04, 2009)
19:33 wizzyrea @quote random
19:33 munin wizzyrea: Quote #69: "<schuster> Now if I could only figure out how to control those daemons... or at least the ones in my head..." (added by jwagner at 10:02 AM, March 17, 2010)
19:33 wizzyrea @quote random
19:33 munin wizzyrea: Quote #70: "<wizzyrea> owen: I have a jquery... um... query for you" (added by jdavidb at 10:30 AM, April 01, 2010)
19:33 wizzyrea facepalm.
19:33 wizzyrea @quote random
19:33 munin wizzyrea: Quote #80: "<robin> heh thanks, that makes me seem a lot more edumacated :)" (added by gmcharlt at 09:54 PM, June 23, 2010)
19:34 chris
19:41 richard joined #koha
19:44 bankhead joined #koha
19:46 ebegin Does koha enforces the upper and lower age limit based on the date of a user date of birth?
19:47 chris not really no
19:47 chris its more informational
19:47 ebegin ok, that what I thought.
19:50 ebegin thanks chris!
19:59 collum left #koha
20:07 wizzyrea @later tell nengard I sent you that doc patch to look over (INSTALL.debian) plz let me know if it applies ok for you.
20:07 munin wizzyrea: The operation succeeded.
20:07 wizzyrea thks munin.
20:15 brendan @wunder 93117
20:15 munin brendan: The current temperature in Northwest Goleta, Goleta, California is 24.7�C (1:24 PM PDT on October 11, 2010). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 60%. Dew Point: 16.0�C. Pressure: 29.88 in 1011.7 hPa (Falling).
20:15 brendan wow hot day again
20:21 bankhead left #koha
20:23 slef back
20:25 davi left #koha
20:26 davi joined #koha
20:27 davi left #koha
20:28 davi joined #koha
20:39 alan joined #koha
20:39 alan left #koha
20:40 chris much nicer day here today than yesterday too
20:40 chris @wunder wellington nz
20:40 munin chris: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 11.0�C (9:00 AM NZDT on October 12, 2010). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 71%. Dew Point: 6.0�C. Pressure: 30.54 in 1034 hPa (Steady).
20:42 davi left #koha
20:42 indradg left #koha
20:56 trea left #koha
20:59 wizzyrea @wunder lawrence ks
20:59 munin wizzyrea: The current temperature in Channel 6 Downtown, Lawrence, Kansas is 17.4�C (4:08 PM CDT on October 11, 2010). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 89%. Dew Point: 16.0�C. Pressure: 29.79 in 1008.7 hPa (Rising).
20:59 wizzyrea rainy, not chilly tho
21:00 chris it was really cold yesterday
21:00 chris but not bad at all today
21:00 wizzyrea you are saving the perfect weather for when we get there, right? ;)
21:00 chris heres hoping
21:00 chris actually today is great sightseeing weather
21:00 chris its clear, and not too hot, so you can walk lots
21:01 wizzyrea what do you classify as hot?
21:01 wizzyrea in wellington?
21:01 chris above 24
21:01 chris 30 is retarded
21:01 chris 40 is wtf
21:01 wizzyrea oooo
21:01 chris 20-24 is nice
21:01 wizzyrea 75? really?
21:01 chris yeah
21:01 * wizzyrea squees
21:02 wizzyrea that's like the most perfectly perfect day you'll ever have in kansas
21:02 chris we will most likely have 13-18
21:02 chris somewhere round that
21:02 chris for kohacon
21:02 chris january/feb are the hot months
21:03 johnindep left #koha
21:03 wizzyrea it would definitely be a trip to spend xmas on the beach
21:04 wizzyrea better than being snowed in though
21:05 chris :)
21:06 * wizzyrea has 1st hand experience of being snowed in on xmas day... in a house not her own
21:06 chris ive only had one winter xmas
21:06 chris in my whole life
21:10 slef of all the AAF moves... when did stop sync'ing with
21:11 chris it did?
21:11 chris oh yeah, we should do keysigning at kohacon
21:11 chris at least i should get you to sign mine
21:12 slef apparently - it seems I can't vote because the key loaded into the vote has an old expiry time :-/
21:12 chris stink
21:12 slef I've checked and it was right on it just didn't reach somehow.
21:13 slef Yeah, this'll be the second time I'll've seen you...
21:13 chris as long as i look the same :)
21:13 chris russ will be around too
21:14 * gmcharlt thinks of a new activity for KohaCon - the Chris Cormack look-alike contest ;)
21:15 russ gmcharlt: most of use will need stilts then
21:15 wizzyrea is that like the madame curie lookalike contest?
21:16 wizzyrea only had 5 entries, and they were all guys.
21:16 russ s/use/us
21:20 chris ok meeting time
21:20 chris cya in a sec russ
21:20 russ cool
21:21 Nate left #koha
21:34 slef others might like this cartoon posted during a discussion of the rubbish online video services of BBC and other UK Public Service Broadcasters
21:46 gmcharlt slef: BBC online video?  I only wish this benighted colonial could get access to it
21:48 gmcharlt there's a (admittedly) small subset of USians who would happily pay the UK TV tax to get access
21:48 SJeffery Very small :)
21:49 slef gmcharlt: I wish this Englishman could get access to all of it :-/ Rubbishy Flash apps.
21:50 slef gmcharlt: I expect if someone bought a UK server and enough bandwidth, they could fool the BBC.
22:00 LBA joined #koha
22:10 slef I couldn't resist it. Just commented on nengard's blog again.
22:20 wasabi slef: I couldn't resist either. Just commented on chris.c's email to the list re: nicole
22:25 chris back
22:29 chris slef++
22:29 chris wasabi++
22:29 chris can we make i support nicole tshirts?
22:30 LBA Free Nicole!
22:30 brendan slef - I like the "support Nicole" motto - interesting
22:30 wasabi 'all ur KOHA belong teh us'
22:31 wasabi thats my current fav.
22:32 slef chris: if you do, please put the egg logo on them, else it'll be very abstract.
22:32 chris maybe the kohacon10 logo?
22:34 wasabi[…]uploads/pedro.jpg
22:35 wasabi i'll make some sweet badges!
22:35 chris ohhhh good idea
22:35 chris from the badge shop
22:36 * brendan is waiting for the "social network" like movie - here
22:36 wasabi oooh, the nerds are getting crafty, oooooh so scared!!!
22:37 chris well, the person who started craft2.0 is coming to the conference
22:37 chris
22:38 richard is now known as rich-away
22:38 wasabi w0w, thats impressive!!!
22:41 wasabi hmmm, a bunch of different badges would be sweet, with a selection of sassy phrases
22:41 wasabi 'its Koha, not KOHA, ok?'
22:43 slef @quote random
22:43 munin slef: Quote #2: "<jwagner> Hope springs eternal in little kitty hearts. Better watch the doors :-)" (added by gmcharlt at 12:04 PM, June 03, 2009)
22:43 slef @quote random
22:43 munin slef: Quote #15: "<|Lupin|>ricardo: you are like the Portuguese Hitchcock!!" (added by wizzyrea at 10:58 AM, July 10, 2009)
22:43 chris that one is a good one :)
22:44 slef oh but was wasabi going for a range of sly digs?
22:44 slef (have PTFS upcased Koha in their new logo?)
22:44 chris @quote show 95
22:44 munin chris: Error: The "Quote" plugin is loaded, but there is no command named "show" in it.  Try "list Quote" to see the commands in the "Quote" plugin.
22:44 chris @quote get 95
22:44 munin chris: Quote #95: "< robin> to be honest, I think if you mention Koha and Perl, your CV could say your hobbies include puppy-kitten cage-fights, and you'd be snapped up :)" (added by chris at 05:36 PM, October 06, 2010)
22:44 slef @quote 95
22:44 munin slef: Error: The "Quote" plugin is loaded, but there is no command named "95" in it.  Try "list Quote" to see the commands in the "Quote" plugin.
22:44 chris yeah they have
22:45 chris on the new liblime site
22:45 wasabi @quote show 96
22:45 munin wasabi: Error: The "Quote" plugin is loaded, but there is no command named "show" in it.  Try "list Quote" to see the commands in the "Quote" plugin.
22:45 slef @quote get 96
22:45 munin slef: Quote #96: "< owen> If your vendor calls it KOHA you know it's not really Koha." (added by wasabi at 01:56 AM, October 08, 2010)
22:45 slef hehe
22:47 wasabi yeah, its ptfs/liblimes new dis-information attempt on the project
22:48 wasabi ... related to a trademark they 'acquired' in the USA, i think?
22:50 chris their trademark attempt in NZ was for KOHA too
22:50 SJeffery left #koha
22:52 wasabi ok, back to work....
22:58 slef damn! Just as I find SJeffery leaves
22:58 slef @later tell SJeffery might include a worthwhile independent summary of the history
22:58 munin slef: The operation succeeded.
23:41 slef chris: maybe me+you+paul_p+??? should get badges saying "I was Koha Release Manager before LibLime even existed"
23:42 chris hehe
23:43 paul joined #koha
23:44 chris hi paul
23:44 paul hey, that was fast
23:44 chris was just chatting with mj in the UK .. who is still awake at this crazy hour
23:45 paul for sure, very late
23:45 paul figured it was time to try this out again, had kinda forgotten
23:48 slef erm, which paul is that?
23:48 slef chris: I'm still waiting for an export to complete, would you believe.
23:49 slef I think I will have to bg and disown it.
23:49 chris thats paul from hauraki district libraries
23:49 chris the newest group of public libraries running koha in nz
23:50 paul that's me, we been live 2 weeks now
23:50 chris
23:50 slef cool, congratulations
23:51 paul thanks - trying to adjust to life without chris holding our hand
23:52 slef learn how to find stuff our yourself if you can... it's the best investment
23:54 paul so chris keeps reminding me
23:54 paul we'll get there, just need some time to get how it all works straight in our heads

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