Time Nick Message 23:54 paul we'll get there, just need some time to get how it all works straight in our heads 23:54 paul so chris keeps reminding me 23:52 slef learn how to find stuff our yourself if you can... it's the best investment 23:51 paul thanks - trying to adjust to life without chris holding our hand 23:50 slef cool, congratulations 23:50 chris http://library.hauraki-dc.govt.nz/ 23:50 paul that's me, we been live 2 weeks now 23:49 chris the newest group of public libraries running koha in nz 23:49 chris thats paul from hauraki district libraries 23:49 slef I think I will have to bg and disown it. 23:48 slef chris: I'm still waiting for an export to complete, would you believe. 23:48 slef erm, which paul is that? 23:45 paul figured it was time to try this out again, had kinda forgotten 23:45 paul for sure, very late 23:44 chris was just chatting with mj in the UK .. who is still awake at this crazy hour 23:44 paul hey, that was fast 23:44 chris hi paul 23:42 chris hehe 23:41 slef chris: maybe me+you+paul_p+??? should get badges saying "I was Koha Release Manager before LibLime even existed" 22:58 munin slef: The operation succeeded. 22:58 slef @later tell SJeffery http://lwn.net/Articles/386284/ might include a worthwhile independent summary of the history 22:58 slef damn! Just as I find http://lwn.net/Articles/386284/ SJeffery leaves 22:52 wasabi ok, back to work.... 22:50 chris their trademark attempt in NZ was for KOHA too 22:48 wasabi ... related to a trademark they 'acquired' in the USA, i think? 22:47 wasabi yeah, its ptfs/liblimes new dis-information attempt on the project 22:45 slef hehe 22:45 munin slef: Quote #96: "< owen> If your vendor calls it KOHA you know it's not really Koha." (added by wasabi at 01:56 AM, October 08, 2010) 22:45 slef @quote get 96 22:45 munin wasabi: Error: The "Quote" plugin is loaded, but there is no command named "show" in it. Try "list Quote" to see the commands in the "Quote" plugin. 22:45 wasabi @quote show 96 22:45 chris on the new liblime site 22:44 chris yeah they have 22:44 munin slef: Error: The "Quote" plugin is loaded, but there is no command named "95" in it. Try "list Quote" to see the commands in the "Quote" plugin. 22:44 slef @quote 95 22:44 munin chris: Quote #95: "< robin> to be honest, I think if you mention Koha and Perl, your CV could say your hobbies include puppy-kitten cage-fights, and you'd be snapped up :)" (added by chris at 05:36 PM, October 06, 2010) 22:44 chris @quote get 95 22:44 munin chris: Error: The "Quote" plugin is loaded, but there is no command named "show" in it. Try "list Quote" to see the commands in the "Quote" plugin. 22:44 chris @quote show 95 22:44 slef (have PTFS upcased Koha in their new logo?) 22:44 slef oh but was wasabi going for a range of sly digs? 22:43 chris that one is a good one :) 22:43 munin slef: Quote #15: "<|Lupin|>ricardo: you are like the Portuguese Hitchcock!!" (added by wizzyrea at 10:58 AM, July 10, 2009) 22:43 slef @quote random 22:43 munin slef: Quote #2: "<jwagner> Hope springs eternal in little kitty hearts. Better watch the doors :-)" (added by gmcharlt at 12:04 PM, June 03, 2009) 22:43 slef @quote random 22:41 wasabi 'its Koha, not KOHA, ok?' 22:41 wasabi hmmm, a bunch of different badges would be sweet, with a selection of sassy phrases 22:38 wasabi w0w, thats impressive!!! 22:37 chris http://www.craft2.org/blog/ 22:37 chris well, the person who started craft2.0 is coming to the conference 22:36 wasabi oooh, the nerds are getting crafty, oooooh so scared!!! 22:36 * brendan is waiting for the "social network" like movie - here 22:35 chris from the badge shop 22:35 chris ohhhh good idea 22:35 wasabi i'll make some sweet badges! 22:34 wasabi http://www.resurrectionsong.com/images/uploads/pedro.jpg 22:32 chris maybe the kohacon10 logo? 22:32 slef chris: if you do, please put the egg logo on them, else it'll be very abstract. 22:31 wasabi thats my current fav. 22:30 wasabi 'all ur KOHA belong teh us' 22:30 brendan slef - I like the "support Nicole" motto - interesting 22:30 LBA Free Nicole! 22:29 chris can we make i support nicole tshirts? 22:29 chris wasabi++ 22:29 chris slef++ 22:25 chris back 22:20 wasabi slef: I couldn't resist either. Just commented on chris.c's email to the list re: nicole 22:10 slef I couldn't resist it. Just commented on nengard's blog again. 21:50 slef gmcharlt: I expect if someone bought a UK server and enough bandwidth, they could fool the BBC. 21:49 slef gmcharlt: I wish this Englishman could get access to all of it :-/ Rubbishy Flash apps. 21:48 SJeffery Very small :) 21:48 gmcharlt there's a (admittedly) small subset of USians who would happily pay the UK TV tax to get access 21:46 gmcharlt slef: BBC online video? I only wish this benighted colonial could get access to it 21:34 slef others might like this cartoon posted during a discussion of the rubbish online video services of BBC and other UK Public Service Broadcasters http://xkcd.com/676/ 21:20 russ cool 21:20 chris cya in a sec russ 21:20 chris ok meeting time 21:16 russ s/use/us 21:16 wizzyrea only had 5 entries, and they were all guys. 21:15 wizzyrea is that like the madame curie lookalike contest? 21:15 russ gmcharlt: most of use will need stilts then 21:14 * gmcharlt thinks of a new activity for KohaCon - the Chris Cormack look-alike contest ;) 21:13 chris russ will be around too 21:13 chris as long as i look the same :) 21:13 slef Yeah, this'll be the second time I'll've seen you... 21:12 slef I've checked and it was right on pgp.net... it just didn't reach debian.org somehow. 21:12 chris stink 21:12 slef apparently - it seems I can't vote because the key loaded into the vote has an old expiry time :-/ 21:11 chris at least i should get you to sign mine 21:11 chris oh yeah, we should do keysigning at kohacon 21:11 chris it did? 21:10 slef of all the AAF moves... when did keyring.debian.org stop sync'ing with pgp.net? 21:06 chris in my whole life 21:06 chris ive only had one winter xmas 21:06 * wizzyrea has 1st hand experience of being snowed in on xmas day... in a house not her own 21:05 chris :) 21:04 wizzyrea better than being snowed in though 21:03 wizzyrea it would definitely be a trip to spend xmas on the beach 21:02 chris january/feb are the hot months 21:02 chris for kohacon 21:02 chris somewhere round that 21:02 chris we will most likely have 13-18 21:02 wizzyrea that's like the most perfectly perfect day you'll ever have in kansas 21:01 * wizzyrea squees 21:01 chris yeah 21:01 wizzyrea 75? really? 21:01 chris 20-24 is nice 21:01 wizzyrea oooo 21:01 chris 40 is wtf 21:01 chris 30 is retarded 21:01 chris above 24 21:01 wizzyrea in wellington? 21:01 wizzyrea what do you classify as hot? 21:00 chris its clear, and not too hot, so you can walk lots 21:00 chris actually today is great sightseeing weather 21:00 chris heres hoping 21:00 wizzyrea you are saving the perfect weather for when we get there, right? ;) 21:00 chris but not bad at all today 21:00 chris it was really cold yesterday 20:59 wizzyrea rainy, not chilly tho 20:59 munin wizzyrea: The current temperature in Channel 6 Downtown, Lawrence, Kansas is 17.4�C (4:08 PM CDT on October 11, 2010). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 89%. Dew Point: 16.0�C. Pressure: 29.79 in 1008.7 hPa (Rising). 20:59 wizzyrea @wunder lawrence ks 20:40 munin chris: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 11.0�C (9:00 AM NZDT on October 12, 2010). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 71%. Dew Point: 6.0�C. Pressure: 30.54 in 1034 hPa (Steady). 20:40 chris @wunder wellington nz 20:40 chris much nicer day here today than yesterday too 20:23 slef back 20:15 brendan wow hot day again 20:15 munin brendan: The current temperature in Northwest Goleta, Goleta, California is 24.7�C (1:24 PM PDT on October 11, 2010). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 60%. Dew Point: 16.0�C. Pressure: 29.88 in 1011.7 hPa (Falling). 20:15 brendan @wunder 93117 20:07 wizzyrea thks munin. 20:07 munin wizzyrea: The operation succeeded. 20:07 wizzyrea @later tell nengard I sent you that doc patch to look over (INSTALL.debian) plz let me know if it applies ok for you. 19:50 ebegin thanks chris! 19:47 ebegin ok, that what I thought. 19:47 chris its more informational 19:47 chris not really no 19:46 ebegin Does koha enforces the upper and lower age limit based on the date of a user date of birth? 19:34 chris http://planet.debian.net/ 19:33 munin wizzyrea: Quote #80: "<robin> heh thanks, that makes me seem a lot more edumacated :)" (added by gmcharlt at 09:54 PM, June 23, 2010) 19:33 wizzyrea @quote random 19:33 wizzyrea facepalm. 19:33 munin wizzyrea: Quote #70: "<wizzyrea> owen: I have a jquery... um... query for you" (added by jdavidb at 10:30 AM, April 01, 2010) 19:33 wizzyrea @quote random 19:33 munin wizzyrea: Quote #69: "<schuster> Now if I could only figure out how to control those daemons... or at least the ones in my head..." (added by jwagner at 10:02 AM, March 17, 2010) 19:33 wizzyrea @quote random 19:32 munin wizzyrea: Quote #37: "< nelsonf> I'm pretty sure I deleted this one in the name of being thorough..." (added by chris at 07:27 PM, October 04, 2009) 19:32 wizzyrea @quote random 19:32 wizzyrea woot I got quote 100! 19:32 munin wizzyrea: The operation succeeded. Quote #100 added. 19:32 wizzyrea @quote add chris: well, one of them is overhauling the whole templating system jcamins: Koha's other swiss army chainsaw 19:31 chris back 19:21 chris Ok my stop bbiab 19:20 chris Cya 19:19 jcamins Good night, #koha 19:19 jcamins Time to close up. 19:12 jcamins (I really like that phrase) 19:12 chris :) 19:12 jcamins Koha's other swiss army chainsaw. 19:11 chris Oh well one of them is overhauling the whole templating system 19:08 nengard k - time to head out - be back later 19:07 chris I'm sure they will be fine, nice ppl and smart 19:07 jcamins ;) 19:07 jcamins Of course, I have the good sense not to ask them to overhaul any swiss army chainsaws. 19:07 SJeffery Oh god that reminds me I have a long-term temp starting next month *shudder* 19:06 jcamins Our interns are fantastic. 19:06 * chris doesn't want flinging 19:06 chris I hope I have more success with the 2 working on koha at catalyst 19:05 SJeffery Same problem with using interns. 19:04 SJeffery Sure! I will just have my small army of trained gorillas work on it (I tried monkeys, but there was far too much flinging going on that was starting to impact productivity). 19:03 jcamins SJeffery: that's a good idea. Think it'll be done by October 15? ;) 19:03 slef SJeffery: how do you document a swiss army chainsaw? 19:03 SJeffery Solution: Make the reports function a lot easier to use so less has to be documented? 19:03 slef gtg, bbl 19:02 chris Yeah that's a tricky problem 19:02 jcamins I mean, I don't understand *everything*, but I understand the basics. 19:02 chris gmcharlt knows at least as much as me too 19:02 jcamins chris: the problem is that I understand it, and I'm trying to document how to deal with reports for people who don't understand it. 19:01 chris So I don't have to remember it :) 19:01 chris Then write it down 19:01 chris Ask away jcamins 19:00 munin wizzyrea: The operation succeeded. Quote #99 added. 19:00 wizzyrea @quote add slef: #kohaaaaargh for PTFS blog posts? 19:00 jcamins The problem with schema diagrams is that they only help if you know a fair amount about RDBMSes. 19:00 slef gmcharlt: #kohaaaaaargh for PTFS blog posts? 19:00 wizzyrea oh that made me laugh a lot 18:59 gmcharlt SJeffery: #koha-linky-recs ? 18:59 trea koha.am.not.a.lawyer 18:59 SJeffery Slef: I think that name would be entirely appropriate. 18:59 slef SJeffery: let's start using the hashtag #kohaAnal 18:59 nengard so what i meant to paste was the url to the db documentation spec: http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/DB_Documentation_for_3.4_Proposal 18:59 SJeffery Nah, e-mail is so not web 2.0-ish. We need to create some sort of Twitter-mashup-wiki-Friendster kind of thing. 18:59 slef 8 letters I mean 18:59 wizzyrea ROFL 18:59 slef SJeffery: koha-anal@lists.koha-community... anyone? 18:58 slef SJeffery: I think we should abbreviate it to 8 characters to reduce typing. 18:58 slef SJeffery: no, let's make an email list. 18:58 chris Hehe 18:58 SJeffery I think we need to open #kohanalytics or something:D 18:58 slef ah right, PEBCAK 18:58 magnus wizzyrea: we all do! ;-) 18:58 nengard hehe 18:58 wizzyrea I was trying to stop the paste speeeeew. 18:58 nengard i was moving to fast for myself 18:58 nengard slef - i did hit enter 18:58 wizzyrea but I still love you 18:58 nengard nengard is making a confused face 18:57 slef nengard: you need a better client that doesn't send lines until you *press* enter. 18:57 trea ?!?!?! 18:57 magnus heh, would love to see te expression on nengards face now... ;-) 18:57 wizzyrea I banned you! 18:57 nengard what happened? 18:57 chris Hehe remove the ban now :) 18:57 nengard i thought i copied th URL and didn't 18:57 nengard http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/DB_Documentation_for_3.4_Proposal 18:56 nengard so sorry!!! 18:56 nengard oops 18:56 slef auto-rejoin fail 18:56 nengard Linda 18:56 chris Gah 18:56 nengard Thanks for asking, Nicole! 18:56 nengard use Koha for archival collections. 18:56 nengard other archives or libraries with archival materials about how to best 18:56 nengard On a personal note, I would be very interested in sharing ideas with 18:56 nengard a problem and somebody can tell me how to do this? 18:56 nengard Summer issue of 1995 of a serial. Hopefully, I'm wrong about this being 18:56 SJeffery Oh god, not the analytic discussion again. 18:56 nengard person may really want to see the Spring and Fall issues of 1994 and the 18:56 nengard collections with linked item level analytical records) - because a 18:56 nengard make only one hold request per title - a real problem with serials (and 18:56 nengard Another problem is that Koha seems to only allow for the borrower to 18:56 nengard serial's record. 18:56 chris Paste fail 18:56 slef where's an op when we need one? 18:56 nengard be able to tie the analytic record to the particular issue of the 18:56 nengard analytic records for specific articles in certain issues and we need to 18:56 nengard handled as analytics. We also have a number of journals which have 18:56 jcamins Oh, wait, never mind. 18:56 nengard because many of our collections have item-level descriptions which are 18:56 slef nengard: ??? 18:56 nengard support ( http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Analytic_Record_support ) 18:56 nengard The real problem we have with Koha is the lack of analytic record 18:56 nengard originals where they exist. So, I like Koha. 18:56 chris Eek 18:56 nengard track in-house use of our materials and link to digitized copies of the 18:56 nengard Description (EAD). Koha can handle 2 out of three, plus allow us to 18:56 nengard (Describing Archives: A Content Standard), MARC, and Encoded Archival 18:56 nengard There are three standards central to archival description: DACS 18:56 nengard Cc: koha <koha@lists.katipo.co.nz> 18:55 nengard To: 18:55 nengard Subject: Re: [Koha] Koha Cataloging Archives 18:55 nengard Date: Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 2:20 PM 18:55 nengard From: Linda Culberson <lculber@mdah.state.ms.us> 18:55 nengard ---------- Forwarded message ---------- 18:55 jcamins It says it's for 3.0.3. 18:55 nengard slef i can find it 18:55 slef chris: and with regeneration instructions? 18:55 slef chris: current? 18:55 chris There is a schema on thw wiki 18:55 slef nengard: can you find it or shall I? 18:54 slef ? 18:54 slef Was tajoli going to do that 18:54 nengard wasn't someone going to add notes to those tables so that we knew what each one was for? 18:54 wizzyrea even worse since he's always around buses! 18:54 * jcamins adds writing "Koha database structures for report writers" to his to-do list. 18:54 slef and can figure things out from the source 18:54 wizzyrea yikes, we have a serious bus problem. 18:54 slef and the rest of us know bits 18:53 slef jcamins: we have chris 18:53 jcamins That's what I thought. 18:52 wizzyrea only the schema from git really 18:52 jcamins Do we have any "Koha database structure for dummies" page? 18:47 slef Quebec wins with 70%. For countries, Finland with 62%. 18:46 jcamins Yeah, cait was installing Koha on Ubuntu over the weekend, and we got stuck because the wrong version of yaz was in the IndexData repository. 18:45 jcamins I guess looking ahead to 3.4, Makefile.PL should generate a default crontab which can be installed with crontab $FILE 18:45 gmcharlt jcamins: you're correct about Ubuntu: http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=idzebra-2.0 18:45 slef fun facts: 20% of Brits are members of co-ops. In the USA, it's 25%. NZ 40% 18:44 wizzyrea fair enough. 18:44 wizzyrea lol 18:44 jcamins ;) 18:44 jcamins My preferred solution is banging my head against the desk until I forget about the problem, but if everyone here did that, there wouldn't be any Koha anymore. 18:44 wizzyrea (and I won't be insulted, I promise) 18:43 wizzyrea (I like commentary) 18:43 wizzyrea true, how best to address that though? 18:43 jcamins (I think the updated instructions are great) 18:43 jcamins (not that I'm proposing an alternative, just commenting) 18:43 wizzyrea well, that's not really up to me, actually, that's why I asked for a double check 18:43 jcamins Although the instructions still make the assumption that the person following the instructions will be able to deal with the text editor with crontab -e. 18:42 wizzyrea and the ones that are, won't have any more trouble with these than they did with the old ones. 18:42 wizzyrea They weren't cryptic to sysadmins, but most librarians aren't sysadmins. 18:41 jcamins slef: sure. 18:41 slef jcamins: I'm not sure about "very". Can we agree on "too"? 18:41 slef wizzyrea: ok, I'm a bad person to look as I didn't think they were too cryptic before. Buggy other ways. 18:40 wizzyrea the reason is that my goal wasn't to change *how* it works, just to make sure that they are at least a little less cryptic. :) 18:40 slef lovely? fall? day?? 18:39 sekjal alright, lunch is done. time to enjoy some of this lovely fall day. take care, all! 18:39 slef those install docs - is there a reason why we use cpan instead of deb-make-perl in 1.5? That's another thing in my todo... 18:38 jcamins wizzyrea: much improved! 18:38 slef SJeffery: please don't curse. SharePoint indeed. 18:38 wizzyrea cool. 18:37 slef no, we'll nuke apt-get-debian-*sh from orbit when the time comes :) 18:37 sekjal oh dear. 18:37 wizzyrea >.< 18:37 SJeffery sekjal: Nah, worst case scenerio is they force us to use SharePoint for our library catalog as "it can do everything we need." *facepalm* 18:36 wizzyrea i'd imagine we'd have a different install_misc/apt-get-debian-squeeze.sh when the time comes 18:36 jcamins gmcharlt: oh, then maybe it was just for the latest version of Ubuntu. 18:36 wizzyrea right, these are for lenny (since it's stable) 18:36 slef they control the horizontal 18:36 slef all hail the release managers 18:35 slef or it should be in squeeze 18:35 slef http://packages.debian.org/idzebra - it's in squeeze but not lenny 18:35 slef wizzyrea: without installing lenny from a businesscard CD, I don't know what it should say, sorry :-/ 18:35 gmcharlt jcamins: chris: not sure about that - I don't see idzebra in the regular Debian package search 18:33 wizzyrea what do you want it to say? 18:33 wizzyrea sorry, I just mean I didn't change that part from the original 18:33 jcamins Yesterday chris said something about it not being necessary on the latest versions. 18:33 slef wizzyrea: which bit should I be looking at then? 18:33 sekjal SJeffery: we'll do what we can to help, but if they wind up putting you in something not-Koha, there'll only be so much we can do 18:33 slef wizzyrea: 1.2 should use wget -O- http://ftp.indexdata.dk/debian/indexdata.asc | sudo apt-key add - (avoids leaving indexdata.asc junk lying around) 18:33 wizzyrea (slef) 18:33 wizzyrea didn't touch any of that stuff, what specifically would you like to address? 18:32 jcamins wizzyrea: wait, check with chris about the IndexData repos. 18:32 slef wizzyrea: "1.1 Install Debian Lenny via Businesscard CD" needs some hint on what installation options/tasks to choose. 18:32 jcamins If that was in response to "not really up to me," yes, I think the adverb you want is "very" common. 18:31 slef wizzyrea: looking. 18:31 slef jcamins: very common? 18:31 jcamins slef: I think you mean "very." 18:31 slef such a shame, but fairly common 18:31 wizzyrea updated install docs, please look them over? http://pastebin.com/m8mZ5SPt 18:28 SJeffery *shrug* Not really up to me. 18:27 slef SJeffery: future customer? If you've not signed, there's time to shop around, surely? 18:27 slef I'm still mopping up after falling out with kados, like 2 or 3 years ago. 18:27 SJeffery We are a future customer of said company, so I guess I have to prevent myself from reading it then! 18:26 slef Awkward position. 18:26 slef ah! I see! 18:26 nengard wizzyrea does work for a library group - a library group who get support (in theory) from said company 18:26 slef I'll write a "here's what we've seen" if it's useful to the community, but I can only handle so much crap being flung in my direction at once. 18:25 * jcamins must also recuse himself 18:25 * slef looks up wizzyrea 18:25 slef I thought you worked for a library group? 18:24 wizzyrea < can't really say much either. 18:23 slef SJeffery: I'll help answer, but even through I work for the co-op, we're open to the "you would say that because you're competing" accusation so I won't post it myself. 18:23 nengard meaning I chat with them while i'm eating alone 18:23 nengard sekjal when i travel i'm usually eating dinner with wizzyrea and chris on IM :) 18:22 SJeffery I keep hearing bits and pieces, but have not run across anything comprehensive that can be used to show someone what is going on. 18:22 slef I'm not sure anyone reported the last evil action http://stats.workbuffer.org/irclog/koha/2010-08-28#i_492736 18:22 wizzyrea starting with the open letter, or even before 18:22 wizzyrea imo it probably needs to go back to what happened even before kohacon last year 18:22 slef ah no, the one I was reading was from Harley's release 18:20 slef SJeffery: I was reading one earlier, not sure how recent, but from my point of view little has changed recently. 18:19 SJeffery Has anyone (relatively recently) written an overview of all the goings-ons with PTFS vs all? 18:19 wizzyrea lol 18:19 wizzyrea read : GTFO 18:19 slef jcamins: mold, the permanent battle of wet climates. 18:19 sekjal I'm on my own. my wife has to work at home today, and wanted me to get some air 18:19 wizzyrea no way I could do that whilst out to dinner with my family 18:19 jcamins slef: Not having a smartphone, I'm safe from that particular sin. ;) 18:19 wizzyrea fortunately I was with coworkers that time, and they didn't require my attention 18:18 jcamins Although actually, I shouldn't be so pessimistic... my wife hasn't gotten sick again yet, so it looks like this week our apartment is mostly mold-less. 18:18 wizzyrea *giggle* 18:18 slef won't do it again 18:18 slef annoyed the hell out of my wife 18:18 slef ooooh I've done that 18:18 wizzyrea hehe one time I attended an IRC meeting from a restaurant 18:18 jcamins SJeffery: I'm going to go with "yes." 18:17 slef sekjal: we miss you too! 18:17 sekjal out at lunch, actually. but was missing #koha 18:17 slef SJeffery: it's 1930 here. :) 18:17 wizzyrea mua hahahahaha 18:17 slef SJeffery: speak for yourself. 18:17 slef so if we successfully exploit his host now, we get to make phone calls? 18:17 SJeffery 11:30am on a Monday and the day is already a cluster...a sign of the week ahead perhaps? 18:16 slef oic 18:16 jcamins Or the train. 18:16 jcamins I figure that one wouldn't sign in while driving, walking, or biking, and there's generally no phone reception on subways, which leaves the bus. 18:16 jcamins ;) 18:15 jcamins sekjal is signed in from his Android phone. 18:15 slef jcamins: ?? 18:15 slef ptfs-- 18:15 slef I haven't. 18:12 jcamins Looks like chris will now have company from other bus-riding #koha-ers. 18:06 * chris_n suddenly realizes he already said that last line once in this discussion 18:06 chris_n ptfs-- 18:05 chris_n chris++ 18:05 chris_n larsw++ 17:57 slef http://mjr.towers.org.uk/blog/2005-1.html#codes0326 for a much shorter version. 17:56 slef If you'd like more anti-corporate rhetoric, http://mjr.towers.org.uk/blog/2008/index 17:56 nengard commentor on my post 17:56 nengard one commentor felt that Jo's post caused all this 17:56 nengard hehe 17:54 chris bbiab 17:52 chris i must ask jo the lotto numbers 17:52 chris its like a premonition 17:51 slef mmm, was http://library-matters.blogspot.com/2010/10/school-yard-bullying-is-alive-and-well.html really only a week ago? 17:51 slef chris++ 17:51 slef larsw++ 17:50 slef chris: ta. 17:50 chris slef: thats about it, if its never used ... if it has been used delete rows in statistics too 17:49 slef "Tags for this page: koha rant" 17:49 jcamins larsw++ 17:48 slef heh, I could have written lars's post from what I've read so far 17:47 slef I could drop the db and reload, but I'm being lazy :) 17:47 slef ok, what's the current quick way to delete someone's whole never-used catalogue? delete all rows in biblio, biblioitems, items, issues... what else? 17:47 nengard larsw wrote a lovely post : http://blog.liw.fi/posts/in-defense-of-nicole/ 17:46 nengard hehe 17:45 slef nengard: you are channelling me. Be afraid. 17:45 nengard wish I hadn't logged in this weekend... 17:45 slef I was at a conference on Saturday. Might as well login in the dull talk. (Shush, don't tell anyone their talk was dull.) 17:45 nengard yikes- can't type 17:45 nengard wish i hadn'ed logged in this weekend.... 17:45 jcamins But then you are catching up until mid-afternoon. 17:43 SJeffery This is why I don't log in over the weekend, I get it all on monday:D 17:43 slef Lots of facepalming about that over the weekend. 17:43 slef ah. Yes. 17:42 SJeffery The PTFS/Liblime one 17:41 slef SJeffery: which? 17:41 SJeffery *facepalms at the most recent blog post* 17:34 jcamins Heh. I kind of figured that xslt would have negative karma. 17:34 munin jcamins: Karma for "xslt" has been increased 3 times and decreased 4 times for a total karma of -1. 17:34 jcamins @karma xslt 17:30 jcamins Hm. I'm not an expert, but I can't see why that would be slow. 17:30 slef hrm, do I need a match on the last xsl:template? 17:29 slef I've a xsl:template match='node()[@tag="nnn"]' and a match='@*|node()' and that's all. 17:29 jcamins preceding-sibling:: is the really inefficient one, but t I'm pretty sure following-sibling:: and ancestor:: are also slow. 17:28 slef jcamins: as in? (save me looking up) 17:24 jcamins slef: are you using axes? 17:24 slef my XSLT's performance must suck. It's much slower than the much longer one I downloaded 17:21 nengard hi chris 17:21 nengard slef that's funny 17:18 chris heh 17:18 larsw er, chris 17:18 slef hi chris 17:18 larsw hi, chirs 17:18 slef Oh well. Let's use silly posters then. http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=4811663&o=all&op=1&view=all&subj=249360150703&aid=-1&id=598219281&oid=249360150703 17:18 chris morning 17:16 owen Unfortunately rationality doesn't have much part in the politics of it 17:15 slef I remember being told that US spends 16% on health. I wonder how much higher it would be if costs of such discussions were included? 17:15 * owen can only hope... some day... 17:14 slef #weLoveTheNHS 17:13 owen I get to sit out the discussion of health insurance because I'm covered by my wife's 17:11 nengard how's it going? 17:11 nengard hi owen!! 17:09 nengard wizzyrea what happened to the patch i was proofing? 17:08 jcamins Okay, well, yay! owen's not dead yet! 17:08 owen Just coming up for air 17:07 jcamins Yay! owen survived! 16:58 jcamins wizzyrea: sure. 16:57 wizzyrea with my recent patch formatting stupidity I don't want to send it to the list :/ 16:57 slef Talking of forums, does someone here have a Nabble2 login? 16:56 wizzyrea jcamins, can I send you a patch to see if you can apply it? 16:49 SJeffery On the downside, there is still quite a bit of software out there that doesn't support an Arizona time zone (including one of the major forum packages). 16:48 jcamins SJeffery: and very sensible of you, too. 16:47 SJeffery Don't forget that some of us don't follow that crazy DST thing. 16:46 jcamins Now, of course, DST in the States is even weirder. 16:45 slef as in synchronisation of DST dates 16:43 slef jcamins: UK is with EU, has been for a few years but I think I remember when it wasn't. 16:43 nengard if we're talking about days until we leave :) 16:42 jcamins Right. 16:42 slef jcamins: as in switchover date? 16:42 nengard D-9 16:41 jcamins That was very stressful. 16:40 jcamins We didn't know that DST is different in the UK than in the US. 16:40 jcamins I missed a flight from London to Salzburg when I was Eurail-ing around Europe. 16:39 wizzyrea more like buzzing hornets 16:39 * wizzyrea gets little butterflies everytime she thinks about the possibility of missing the plane 16:39 wizzyrea bye paul_p 16:38 slef ciao 16:38 paul_p this time, bye ! 16:38 slef paul_p: I have help. 16:38 paul_p slef you'd better... missing your plane would be ... quite annoying :D 16:38 slef I really should check my details :) 16:38 slef D-8 here too. I think. 16:38 paul_p 19oct => to Kuala Lumpur, 1 day in KL, then to Auck 16:37 wizzyrea I have D-4 :D:D:D 16:37 slef wizzyrea: I have no memory capacity spare :) 16:37 wizzyrea OH derrr 16:37 paul_p wizzyrea, no, in 8 days ;-) 16:37 wizzyrea paul_p: you leave tomorrow? 16:36 paul_p s/#biblibre/#koha/ sorry ;-) 16:36 paul_p bon... time to go back home. See you tomorrow #biblibre (for a D-8 before take off :D ) 16:35 wizzyrea zoinks! almost lunchtime here too! where did this morning go! 16:34 wizzyrea :) 16:34 wizzyrea fwiw you can always email lrea@nekls.org or wizzyrea@gmail.com 16:34 nengard k - lunch time - will be back soon 16:34 slef I went to pick a random email address for you off the list, but got interrupted before I got there. 16:33 wizzyrea nope, I will add that too. 16:32 slef wizzyrea: am I overlooking an easy way to contact you from/about the site? 16:31 wizzyrea slef: please let me know if you run across any others like that, I'll fix them. There are a few pages I've done special tricks on to make things work, that I don't want people to edit, but most everything else is fair game. 16:28 wizzyrea it's going to take me a little bit to catch them all, but that particular page should be ready for your edit. 16:25 wizzyrea yes, sorry I will fix that 16:22 nengard i can't edit wizzyrea's pages either :) i think it's cause she's logged in as an admin when she writes them 16:22 slef I can edit nengard-created pages AFAICT. 16:21 slef wizzyrea: why can't I edit your koha-community.org pages or contact you about them except in public? I think I wanted to fix the nabble mailing list archive link and stop it going to spam. 16:21 nengard i like that idea - 'suggested' 16:21 nengard can't find it - i know i reported it though ... gonna report it again :) 16:20 wizzyrea (well not all optional, there's obviously mandatory stuff) 16:20 wizzyrea it should all be optional, but I think we should suggest some. 16:20 wizzyrea I mean, what should be checked for sample data 16:19 nengard find 16:19 wizzyrea I'd like to see "Suggested" 16:19 nengard i'll fidn it 16:19 nengard frameworks 16:19 nengard that one has a bug already 16:19 wizzyrea frameworks are another one 16:19 wizzyrea I think I'll file a bug about that, it bears discusison I think 16:19 nengard my biggest complaint is with the framework editor 16:18 * wizzyrea is reminded about one of her annoyances with the label creator 16:18 wizzyrea ^^ YES 16:18 nengard anywhere we have individual delete links 16:17 nengard which brings up a feature I'd like to see in many more places - checkboxes and delete checked options :) 16:17 wizzyrea that's fair 16:17 nengard most libraries have their own and it's not as simple as clicking 'delete all' to get rid of the defaults 16:17 nengard wizzyrea i agree with all except item types 16:17 wizzyrea maybe we need to define a "suggested" install. 16:16 nengard thanks jcamins 16:16 wizzyrea and the message transports! 16:16 jcamins Okay, I'll assume it's collection-level records that are of interest, and respond to that. 16:15 jcamins nengard: yes. 16:15 wizzyrea I feel like holidays, item types, sample news, z servers, and authorized values ought to be optional, but checked by default 16:15 nengard paul_p - email coming your way 16:15 nengard the person who asked me just asked if I have any examples of people using Koha to catalog archives 16:14 nengard jcamins - are you asking about my email? 16:14 wizzyrea for an installation 16:14 wizzyrea hmm, I'm looking at the currently selected default data 16:09 jcamins nengard: do you mean for collection-level records, or records for individual letters, etc.? 16:01 jcamins Isn't that a good thing? It means it won't ask for anything you don't have. 16:01 wizzyrea but I suppose that an admin competent enough to already be running a debian server probably wouldn't have much trouble with koha 16:01 wizzyrea the bad thing is that the install instructions assume a spanky new debian install 16:00 wizzyrea I always find that I need build-essentials and nano and ssh when I install 16:00 jcamins Whatever you end up with after running the Debian installer according to the Koha installation instructions. 15:59 slef jcamins: I'm pretty sure nano is in most debian tasks. It all depends what you mean by "vanilla". 15:58 paul_p right... 15:58 nengard actually not morning here anymore either - where did the time go!! 15:57 paul_p nengard, it's 6Pm in France, not really morning anymore :D 15:57 nengard paul_p good morning - heading over there now 15:57 paul_p (good morning USA !) 15:57 paul_p nengard, mail from me in your mailbox 15:42 jcamins Yes, but if that's what I can rely on being on *any* Debian server, that's what I'm going to recommend learning. 15:41 slef ed and vi have their place. It's probably 1984. 15:40 jcamins That doesn't seem unkind to me. Merely an observation that the majority of librarians were doing library-related things in 1984, not reading Introducing the Unix System. ;) 15:38 Elwell_ unkind. (but sadly true) 15:38 jcamins I always use vi, but it has occurred to me that most librarians probably wouldn't know how to use it. 15:37 slef just remember it's debian :) 15:37 jcamins Cool, thanks. 15:37 slef also editor or sensible-editor 15:36 slef /etc/alternatives/editor should get you the best possible 15:36 slef oh wait 15:36 jcamins Thanks. 15:36 jcamins nano doesn't appear to come installed by default. 15:36 jcamins ed! That's the one I forgot about. 15:36 slef nano, vi or ed I think 15:33 jcamins What text editor does one use on a completely vanilla Debian installation? 15:15 jcamins git rebase v3.00.06? 15:15 jcamins How do you rebase onto a tag? 14:50 jcamins thd is so diplomatic. "Somewhat antiquated." 14:48 trea alright, my koha install finished, and now I must goto a staff meeting. thanks again for your help 14:47 jcamins Actually, I'm not sure I've gotten any patches at all. 14:47 jcamins Oh, I never got the patch from you. 14:46 jcamins wizzyrea: I could have sworn we added it, but I can't find the patch. 14:46 jcamins Hm. 14:45 trea thanks jcamins! 14:45 trea AHA! that got it! 14:45 wizzyrea k cool. So it's just the tarball that's mucked atm then 14:45 jcamins I'll check... 14:45 jcamins wizzyrea: yes, I thought we did that. 14:44 wizzyrea the package installer I mean (maybe we did and I have weekend amnesia) 14:44 wizzyrea jcamins: is that one that we need to add to the installer? 14:44 trea thanks jcamins, i'll let you know the result 14:43 jcamins trea: try sudo apt-get install libmodule-install-perl 14:42 trea /usr/bin/perl Makefile.PL INSTALLDIRS=site -- NOT OK 14:42 trea REDTREE/PDF-API2-Simple-1.1.4u.tar.gz 14:42 trea Warning: No success on command[/usr/bin/perl Makefile.PL INSTALLDIRS=site] 14:42 trea BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at Makefile.PL line 1. 14:42 trea Can't locate inc/Module/Install.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/perl/5.10.0 /usr/local/share/perl/5.10.0 /usr/lib/perl5 /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.10 /usr/share/perl/5.10 /usr/local/lib/site_perl .) at Makefile.PL line 1. 14:42 trea i've run apt-get install libpdf-api2-perl, and it says that the package already exists; furthermore when I attempt to install this package via CPAN I get the following errors: 14:41 trea i'm using debian 2.6.26-2-686, and am attempting an install of the release candidate (i'm helping to test) and I have gotten all the way to the web installer portion of the documentation. However, it says that PDF::API2::Simple is missing. 14:39 trea hello koha folk. i'm having a problem installling koha. can you help? 14:34 slef wizzyrea: not yet. It's on my todo but so is the world. :-/ 14:33 jcamins (currently on 3.1.0.135) 14:32 jcamins Our server doesn't have it. 14:28 wizzyrea or whatever it is 14:28 wizzyrea did you have trouble with Authen:CAS:Client 14:28 wizzyrea has anybody installed from the tarball? 13:58 jcamins It'll probably be a few days before I write the RFC, and somewhat longer before I can actually start working on it, but for my clients, at least, this will be a much-wanted feature. 13:57 jcamins Sounds good. 13:57 slef anyway, if you note something like that in the RFC or Enh, I'll be happy 13:57 jcamins Have it always set to '5' with this interface. 13:56 jcamins LDR/17 13:56 slef that's not the one I was trying to remember :) 13:56 munin slef: Sixteen characters that indicate the date and time of the latest record transaction and serve as a version identifier for the record. They are recorded according to Representation of Dates and Times (ISO 8601). The date requires 8 numeric characters in the pattern yyyymmdd. The time requires 8 numeric characters in the pattern hhmmss.f, expressed in terms of the 24-hour (00-23) clock. [] 13:56 slef @marc 005 13:56 jcamins Yeah. 13:56 slef Probably flag something in the record to say "this is incomplete and you should either complete it or use any other MARC record in preference" 13:55 jcamins I think there would have to be a note to the effect that "this interface is limited to only the most basic data entry." 13:54 slef Anyway, what I'm trying to express is that I'm a bit ambivalent about helping people to catalogue without learning a little cataloguing terminology because it may result in poor-quality catalogues and Koha getting blamed for it. 13:54 jcamins Okay, so maybe that's not such a good example either. (note to self: try and use "extent" in conversations more) 13:53 slef extent has many meanings... it's not the most common one, but it's valid 13:52 jcamins It may just be that "extent" isn't a word that I've ever heard used, then. 13:52 slef now I'm no librarian, but that seems straightforward to me 13:52 jcamins Yeah, as I said, I know what it means, but I would never know to define "extent" as "number of pages" if you didn't include the phrase "300 a." ;) 13:52 munin slef: Extent The number of pages, volumes, cassettes, total playing time, etc., of the described item. (Repeatable) 13:52 slef @marc 300 a 13:51 munin slef: unknown tag 300$a 13:51 slef @marc 300$a 13:51 slef Like number of pages? 13:51 jcamins Oh, yes. Librarians much prefer to use MARC. 13:51 slef It means the extent, doesn't it? 13:51 jcamins I know what it means, and I still have no idea what the word "extent" means in this context. 13:51 slef I am sceptical about simplified cataloguing. I think Koha used to have it and the MARC-linked one became far more widely used for a reason. 13:51 jcamins "Physical description - Extent"... what? 13:50 jcamins A better example would be 300a. 13:50 jcamins Bad example. 13:50 jcamins Well, that one's pretty straightforward, actually. 13:50 jcamins I will be doing nothing with the underlying data storage. 13:50 slef So that a user doesn't have to know that the ISBN goes in 020 labelled "INTERNATIONAL STANDARD BOOK NUMBER"? :-/ 13:49 jcamins So that a user doesn't have to know that the ISBN goes in 020. 13:49 jcamins Yes. Something that looks more like a citation manager interface. 13:48 slef non-MARC? 13:47 jcamins I think I may have a sponsorship for a non-MARC cataloging entry form. 13:41 nengard later 13:41 nengard koha demo time - be back alter 13:26 jcamins All-day staff meetings... ick. 13:18 jcamins Good morning, #koha 13:09 nengard hi lars 13:09 larsw nengard, hey, sympathies and cheers! 12:13 nengard one of the things i dont miss about being in the library :) all day staff meetings (specifically those that were supposed to be 1 hour) 12:13 owen It usually is :) 12:12 nengard that sounds terrible 12:05 * owen pops in for a few minutes before a grueling all-day staff meeting begins 12:04 owen Hi everyone 12:02 gmcharlt good morning 11:57 nengard morning wasabit and collum too! 11:57 chris_n heya nengard 11:57 nengard morning chris_n 11:56 cait bye all :) 11:32 nengard hiya cait 11:31 magnus hiya cait 11:31 cait hi magnus and nengard 11:17 magnus :-) 11:17 nengard the fire - not the cold outside ;) 11:16 nengard magnus that sounds lovely 11:16 * magnus has a fire going in the livingroom... 11:15 munin magnus: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 6.0�C (12:50 PM CEST on October 11, 2010). Conditions: Light Rain Showers. Humidity: 76%. Dew Point: 2.0�C. Windchill: 1.0�C. Pressure: 29.89 in 1012 hPa (Steady). 11:15 magnus @wunder bodo, norway 08:58 CGI938 tomorrow again 08:58 CGI938 gtg guys thanks for answering my queries.. 08:48 CGI938 anybody help with my query on connecting remotely to windows server of koha. thanks 08:43 CGI938 is it possible to connect remotely to the admin which the koha is installed in windows? 08:35 CGI938 is it possible to connect remotely to the admin which the koha is installed in windows 08:35 CGI938 yes i can connect locally. i can't connect remotely to the admin but can connect remotely to opac 08:23 slef I thought the windows one used 8080, but can you connect locally to the admin? 08:20 CGI938 2.2.9 which is working in windows 08:19 cait CGI938: which version of koha have you installed? 08:13 CGI938 while 172.xx.x.x:8080 unable to connect 08:13 CGI938 still can't connect 172.xx.x.x:80 am able to connect to opac 08:12 jovax no problem 08:12 CGI938 will try 08:12 CGI938 thanks jovax 08:12 ivanc s/172/127/ 08:12 jovax just example 08:11 ivanc look ad address 172.x ... is the loopback device 08:10 jovax check the virtual host opac 172.x.x.x:80 , admin 172.x.x.x:8080 08:08 CGI938 i want to connect to the admin part remotely 08:07 CGI938 yes it is i was able to connect to it but opac is the default 08:07 jovax hi chris still there? 08:03 ivanc CGI938: apache is installed correctly? 08:01 CGI938 hello. somebody help. i installed koha on windows and i need to connect to it remotely. i was able to connect to it by using the ip address (e.g. http://172.xx.x.x) but it always connects me to the opac but i want to connect to the admin part of the koha not the opac. anybody help, it wil be deeply appreciated. thanks. Eugene librarian from the Philippines 08:00 mib_8fv8w i like koha but my problem i am newbie in linux. 08:00 mib_8fv8w im switching koha 3 months ago but before im using hunter system. 07:58 mib_8fv8w chris are you the one developer on koha system 07:52 chris no problem 07:51 mib_8fv8w thnks for helping me. 07:51 mib_8fv8w me philippines 07:50 chris new zealand 07:49 mib_8fv8w hi chris where are you from? 07:48 mib_8fv8w ah ok] 07:47 chris nope, you would be better off asking on an apache forum or a linux one 07:45 mib_8fv8w did you know how to tune up 07:45 mib_8fv8w maybe 07:44 chris you probably need to tune your apache, to open less threads 07:44 mib_8fv8w right now i restarted my koha system because the memory free is almost 48mb. 07:42 chris mib_8fv8w: maybe reduce the number of threads apache starts 07:39 mib_8fv8w if i restarted the system the size is going normal but the the client is going to login the memory will become smaller until the system is become slow because is out of memory 07:32 mib_8m3l9 chris: ok 07:32 mib_8fv8w the memory free is 127mb 07:32 mib_8fv8w when i check free -m just like this koha:~# free -m total used free shared buffers cached Mem: 1990 1863 127 0 7 89 -/+ buffers/cache: 1765 224 07:29 mib_8fv8w all the process is 3184 www-data 20 0 97664 25m 4024 R 13 1.3 10:40.86 opac-reserve.pl 07:26 chris mib_8m3l9: can your system administrator tell you why those ports breach security? if all you have listening on them is a z3950 server, there has to be something listening on a port for anything to happne, open ports with nothing listening to them isnt a problem so surely the number of the port has nothing to do with it, its more whats listening on that number 07:25 hdl hi cait. 07:24 cait hi hdl and chris 07:24 mib_8fv8w when i check the process that is the result 2957 www-data 20 0 112m 27m 4024 R 14 1.4 26:19.85 opac-reserve.pl 07:23 hdl hi chris. 07:14 mib_8m3l9 asked any koha user, who have implemented koha with setting securtiy also 07:14 mib_8m3l9 chris: our system administrator said, that these ports breaches serious types of security 07:11 cait hi ivanc 07:11 ivanc guten morgen cait 07:11 cait hi #koha 07:10 chris paul_p: not long now ;) 07:09 chris thats a linux question, not really a koha one, you are better off asking that in a linux specific forum, im unsure what threat you have by opening on outbound port to a specific ip 07:07 mib_8m3l9 how can I secure our server from security reasons while keeping open ports for z39.50 07:06 mib_8m3l9 we opened the ports for z39.50, but some securtiy threat persists 07:05 mib_8m3l9 hi all 07:02 magnus g'day #koha 07:01 ivanc good morning #koha 06:59 paul_p D-9 before takeoff :D 06:59 paul_p morning from Europe chris 06:50 chris evening all 06:50 chris mib_8fv8w: that sounds like a linux problem, you might be better off asking on a linux specific forum 06:27 mib_8fv8w pls. help me 06:25 mib_8fv8w did somebody know how to resolve this kind of problem 06:24 mib_8fv8w im installing koha on debian lenny i have a problem my system always out of memory 06:21 mib_8fv8w hi! all 05:57 munin chris: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 9.0�C (6:00 PM NZDT on October 11, 2010). Conditions: Rain Showers. Humidity: 93%. Dew Point: 8.0�C. Pressure: 30.51 in 1033 hPa (Rising). 05:57 chris @wunder Wellington nz 05:12 mib_hub1l hello 03:51 Amit heya chris 03:28 robin yeah, I did the same :) 03:19 richard darn, just as i'd looked up a translation on google 03:13 RedDragon hola soy cubano, hay alguien que quiera platicar conmigo? 02:44 munin jcamins_b: The current temperature in Astoria, Astoria, New York is 19.5�C (10:49 PM EDT on October 10, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 50%. Dew Point: 9.0�C. Pressure: 29.73 in 1006.7 hPa (Steady). 02:44 jcamins_b @wunder 11105 02:21 robin So it turns out that Liberty can't output well-formed CSV files. In other news, my CSV-to-MARC script can now handle badly formed CSV files :)