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Message |
| 00:09 |
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| 03:16 |
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| 03:17 |
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Amit |
heya chris |
| 03:21 |
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chris |
hi Amit |
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| 06:56 |
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kf |
good morning #koha |
| 06:57 |
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| 06:58 |
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Ropuch |
Morning #koha |
| 06:58 |
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kf |
hi Ropuch :) |
| 07:20 |
|
Amit |
heya kf, Ropuch |
| 07:38 |
|
kf |
hi Amit |
| 07:42 |
|
chris |
wow that was fairly random of the national library |
| 07:52 |
|
kf |
hm? |
| 07:53 |
|
chris |
email to koha-devel, for katipo but to the whole list, i dont think they understand Koha :) |
| 07:53 |
|
chris |
to use to proprietary vendors |
| 08:12 |
|
kf |
ah |
| 08:12 |
|
kf |
perhaps it's an old entry in their address list |
| 08:13 |
|
chris |
hmm cant be that old, we only shifted the lists recently :) |
| 08:17 |
|
kf |
chris++ thx for the reminder mail :) |
| 08:20 |
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davi joined #koha |
| 08:35 |
|
kf |
chris: pootle seems a bit unhappy: An error has occurred. Thank you for your patience. database is locked |
| 08:35 |
|
kf |
tried to change my account settings |
| 08:36 |
|
chris |
i officially hate django and pootle |
| 08:36 |
|
kf |
:( |
| 08:36 |
|
chris |
there's probably nothing i can do about that |
| 08:37 |
|
kf |
I get an internal server error when I click on logout |
| 08:37 |
|
kf |
I was not able to deny/accept suggestions and wanted to check my permissions |
| 08:38 |
|
kf |
kartouche seemed more stable, but the search was missing |
| 08:38 |
|
chris |
and it wasnt being developed, and had about 1/10th the number of people using it |
| 08:39 |
|
chris |
i tried restarting it |
| 08:39 |
|
chris |
it might be better now |
| 08:39 |
|
kf |
ok, thx |
| 08:40 |
|
kf |
yep, seems better |
| 08:41 |
|
kf |
yay - can edit suggestions now :) |
| 09:13 |
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| 10:06 |
|
chris |
quiet tonight |
| 10:19 |
|
kf |
lunch time :) |
| 10:26 |
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| 11:34 |
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| 11:39 |
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kf |
hi jwagner :) |
| 11:39 |
|
jwagner |
Hi kf |
| 11:47 |
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| 12:08 |
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Fred joined #koha |
| 12:09 |
|
Fred |
Hello |
| 12:10 |
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| 12:10 |
|
kf |
hi Fred |
| 12:13 |
|
Fred |
Is someone having a clue about an OPAC displaying no results while in the meantime the staff client works perfectly? (got some lines in error log too about : HTML::Template::Pro:in TMPL_LOOP at pos 410: PARAM:LOOP:next_loop(0): callback returned null scope) |
| 12:17 |
|
kf |
Fred: which koha version? problem happens for all languages? xslt on? |
| 12:20 |
|
Fred |
xslt off, just trying it in fr |
| 12:21 |
|
kf |
do you have the same problem with english? |
| 12:22 |
|
kf |
I am running in a lot of translation related problems, so this is the first thing I check |
| 12:23 |
|
Fred |
no did not try the english version yet |
| 12:25 |
|
Fred |
no change with english |
| 12:31 |
|
kf |
which koha version? |
| 12:34 |
|
Fred |
3.01.00.140 |
| 12:35 |
|
kf |
hm 140 is not current |
| 12:36 |
|
kf |
this is not a stable version and not the current HEAD |
| 12:38 |
|
Ropuch |
Hm, back then with 3.0.x turning hidelostitems on worked in some cases |
| 12:40 |
|
Fred |
ok |
| 12:42 |
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| 12:43 |
|
kf |
someone using patron notification of new issues (serials)? |
| 12:48 |
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| 12:49 |
|
Fred |
not yet |
| 12:53 |
|
Fred |
i ve two 3.01.00.140 installed and only one got that problem with OPAC, intersting :) |
| 12:53 |
|
kf |
nengard: around? |
| 12:53 |
|
nengard |
yes |
| 12:54 |
|
kf |
i was wondering if you have an example notice for new issues arrived notices |
| 12:54 |
|
kf |
and if it would be a good idea to add one to the sample notices |
| 12:55 |
|
nengard |
I don't ... koha doesn't have that ability yet ... does it? |
| 12:56 |
|
kf |
hm, if you add a notice to the sub you get a link in the opac where you can subscribe to email notifications |
| 12:57 |
|
kf |
so far it looks quite good - but the notice I chose is RLIST |
| 12:57 |
|
kf |
not really what I want it to look like, I will try to invent one |
| 13:01 |
|
kf |
nengard: I will let you know if koha can do it :) |
| 13:01 |
|
nengard |
oh wait you're talking about new issues of serials? |
| 13:02 |
|
nengard |
that's the routing list |
| 13:02 |
|
nengard |
or are you talking about new items in general |
| 13:02 |
|
kf |
new issues of serials |
| 13:02 |
|
kf |
subscribing to email notification via opac |
| 13:12 |
|
|
jcamins_a is now known as jcamins |
| 13:12 |
|
jcamins |
Good morning, #koha |
| 13:12 |
|
jcamins |
Fred: there's something in the manual about searches working in staff but not OPAC. |
| 13:12 |
|
jcamins |
Sadly I can't remember what, or where. |
| 13:12 |
|
Fred |
Hello |
| 13:12 |
|
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| 13:13 |
|
Fred |
Oh really? that's great! i will check it right now then, thanks! |
| 13:13 |
|
jcamins |
Wait, I think I remember! |
| 13:13 |
|
jcamins |
OPACSuppress. |
| 13:14 |
|
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| 13:15 |
|
Fred |
got it |
| 13:16 |
|
Fred |
wow great! it works perfectly now! |
| 13:17 |
|
jcamins |
If only I could type. |
| 13:17 |
|
jcamins |
But you managed to find it even though I told you the wrong name. |
| 13:18 |
|
Fred |
:) |
| 13:18 |
|
Fred |
thanks a lot for that essential clue |
| 13:24 |
|
kf |
jcamins++ :) |
| 13:26 |
|
kf |
Undefined subroutine &C4::Letters::GetMember called at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Letters.pm line 278. :( |
| 13:28 |
|
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| 13:28 |
|
jcamins |
kf: That doesn't sound good. :/ |
| 13:29 |
|
kf |
no |
| 13:29 |
|
kf |
still trying to send me an email notification |
| 13:30 |
|
kf |
I get this error now when receiving new issues |
| 13:36 |
|
rhcl |
how's it going? |
| 13:36 |
|
kf |
jwagner: what is curriculum used for? :) |
| 13:36 |
|
rhcl |
oops |
| 13:39 |
|
jwagner |
kf, it's a feature for schools -- the 658 contains curriculum terms, and this adds a search for them. |
| 13:40 |
|
jwagner |
See the LC entry on the 658: http://www.loc.gov/marc/biblio[…]oncise/bd658.html |
| 13:40 |
|
kf |
ah |
| 13:40 |
|
kf |
thx :) |
| 13:41 |
|
kf |
we have no school libraries yet, but I they will be happy about it |
| 13:41 |
|
jwagner |
It was one of our school library systems that requested it :-) |
| 13:42 |
|
kf |
is the search option always shown? |
| 13:42 |
|
jwagner |
It's under Advanced Search, More Options |
| 13:43 |
|
jwagner |
Bug 5193 is more specialized |
| 13:43 |
|
munin |
Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5193 enhancement, P5, ---, jwagner, ASSIGNED, Add specialized auction indexes and search options to Advanced Search |
| 13:44 |
|
jcamins |
jwagner: did you see bug 4480? |
| 13:44 |
|
munin |
Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4480 normal, P5, ---, gmcharlt, NEW, MARC21 033 tag and Zebra date indexing |
| 13:45 |
|
jcamins |
Specifically, 033 can contain the computer-readable auction date. |
| 13:45 |
|
jwagner |
jcamins, no, I hadn't seen that one. But our site wanted separate fields for date, auction house, and code |
| 13:45 |
|
jcamins |
Yeah, they'll still need those, but they probably also want the 033. ;) |
| 13:48 |
|
kf |
:) |
| 13:48 |
|
kf |
jwagner++ |
| 13:48 |
|
jwagner |
This one is controlled by a syspref because not too many sites will want to work with auction catalogs. |
| 13:49 |
|
jcamins |
Very sensible of them! |
| 13:49 |
|
jcamins |
I don't want to work with auction catalogs, either! ;) |
| 13:51 |
|
sekjal |
what we really need to for the Zebra indexes to be completely user-controllable through the staff client, but that's no small feat |
| 13:51 |
|
jcamins |
That would be amazing. |
| 13:51 |
|
kf |
yes |
| 13:52 |
|
sekjal |
oh, and while we're at it, make Koha support more than just MARC for metadata |
| 13:54 |
|
kf |
there is always a lot of room for improvement |
| 13:55 |
|
sekjal |
I love that there's so much that can be done, but I hate that I don't have enough time to do it all |
| 13:55 |
|
sekjal |
fortunately, it's not just me coding for this project :) |
| 13:55 |
|
kf |
me too :( |
| 13:56 |
|
jcamins |
Does Koha support subdivision authority records? |
| 14:02 |
|
kf |
jcamins: I have no idea what this is :) |
| 14:03 |
|
jcamins |
For example: |
| 14:03 |
|
jcamins |
600 $aWashington, George[$xCoin collections$vCatalogs] |
| 14:03 |
|
jcamins |
An authority record for the part of the heading that's in brackets. |
| 14:04 |
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| 14:05 |
|
kf |
hm |
| 14:05 |
|
jcamins |
I haven't tried it yet, but I thought someone might know the answer. |
| 14:05 |
|
jcamins |
I also don't know how I would try it. |
| 14:16 |
|
rhcl |
hey munin, go fetch me bug 4239 |
| 14:16 |
|
munin |
Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4239 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, gmcharlt, NEW, Allow holds on multiple items of selected titles |
| 14:16 |
|
kf |
rhcl: munin does even know marc |
| 14:16 |
|
kf |
@marc 001 |
| 14:16 |
|
munin |
kf: The control number assigned by the organization creating, using, or distributing the record. The MARC code for the organization is contained in field 003 (Control Number Identifier). [] |
| 14:17 |
|
kf |
@eightball will I be able to configure sendmail? |
| 14:17 |
|
munin |
kf: You're kidding, right? |
| 14:18 |
|
jcamins |
kf: that's why I use postfix. |
| 14:19 |
|
kf |
how easy is it? |
| 14:20 |
|
jcamins |
Easier than sendmail, anyway. |
| 14:20 |
|
jcamins |
Do you know, in ten years I have never managed to get sendmail to work? |
| 14:20 |
|
jcamins |
I still need to set postfix up on my new server, but it wasn't too hard last time I did it. |
| 14:20 |
|
kf |
ok, I will keep it in mind |
| 14:21 |
|
kf |
will ask a coworker to help me tomorrow |
| 14:21 |
|
jcamins |
Exim is supposed to be nice too. |
| 14:21 |
|
wizzyrea |
I prefer postfix |
| 14:40 |
|
rhcl |
I prefer gmail |
| 15:02 |
|
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| 15:03 |
|
hilongo |
Hello koha fellows :) |
| 15:04 |
|
hilongo |
I have a question about search results |
| 15:06 |
|
hilongo |
I noticed that they are not really sorted ... by relevance nor any other criteria |
| 15:18 |
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| 15:23 |
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| 15:23 |
|
nengard |
hilongo it is sorted by relevance - but it's relevance according to zebra |
| 15:23 |
|
nengard |
it's a magic algorithm that no one has been able to define to me yet ... |
| 15:29 |
|
Fred |
someone told me it s about black magic from Denmark... |
| 15:30 |
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| 15:30 |
|
Braedon |
ask the blotch. The blotch knows! |
| 15:31 |
|
* Braedon |
realizes this is probably the wrong channel for that reference... |
| 15:32 |
|
hilongo |
hmm.. I see ... that is what I felt after trying it to do what I want :P |
| 15:36 |
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| 15:39 |
|
hilongo |
And how about Stopwords? Cause I don't want zebra to be retrieving records that contain 'of' 'the' etc |
| 15:39 |
|
hilongo |
I see the syspref to ignore them when searching, but only if Zebra is off |
| 15:42 |
|
Braedon |
shouldn't zebra handle that itself? |
| 15:44 |
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| 15:45 |
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| 15:48 |
|
hilongo |
maybe it does ... I have to deeper test it ... |
| 15:49 |
|
Braedon |
http://www.mail-archive.com/ko[…]org/msg00546.html |
| 15:51 |
|
hilongo |
BUT .. what have me troubled now is that I have imported the records of a library, and they all apear in the last pages of a search result |
| 15:52 |
|
jcamins |
hilongo: perhaps it's sorting by id? |
| 15:58 |
|
wizzyrea |
but what if you have a book titled "the" |
| 15:58 |
|
jcamins |
Much like "War and Peace" in a large university's next-generation discovery tool, you won't be finding it in the catalog. ;) |
| 15:59 |
|
wizzyrea |
heh heh heh |
| 16:00 |
|
hdl |
hilongo: by default, if no sort correct or error on zebra indexes, then relevancy is recordid |
| 16:02 |
|
jcamins |
wizzyrea: actually, there's a poetry journal from the 70s called "The." |
| 16:02 |
|
wizzyrea |
I know! |
| 16:02 |
|
wizzyrea |
which is why I have come around to the "stopwords are bad" philosophy |
| 16:03 |
|
jcamins |
I never did manage to find it in the NYPL catalog. |
| 16:03 |
|
hdl |
hilongo: lower priorty |
| 16:04 |
|
jcamins |
Of course, Koha doesn't easily provide the ability to do a full-field search, does it? |
| 16:04 |
|
hdl |
But still, I worked on relevancy... And I think it got into 3.2 so maybe you could try and add all the indexes used there. It is in C4/Search.pm |
| 16:05 |
|
hdl |
jcamins: does an xpath search an easily way for you ? |
| 16:05 |
|
hdl |
/record/datafield[@tag="123"]/subfield[@code="a"] |
| 16:06 |
|
hdl |
and enable xpath |
| 16:06 |
|
jcamins |
You can use that for searching on the OPAC? |
| 16:07 |
|
hdl |
in the big box : pqf= @attr 1=/record/datafield[@tag="123"]/subfield[@code="a"] Myvalue |
| 16:07 |
|
jcamins |
Cool! |
| 16:07 |
|
hdl |
will search for Myvalue in 123$a |
| 16:07 |
|
jcamins |
Not the most user-friendly search method ever, but at least now I can do it. :D |
| 16:10 |
|
hdl |
I think it could work |
| 16:10 |
|
jcamins |
I don't need to do the search right now, but it's good to know it's possible. |
| 16:10 |
|
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| 16:11 |
|
cait |
hi #koha |
| 16:11 |
|
hdl |
hi cait |
| 16:11 |
|
jcamins |
Hello. |
| 16:15 |
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| 16:19 |
|
hilongo |
If I set defaultSortOrder and defaultSortField in SysPrefs .. shouldn't the idrecord relevancy be omitted? |
| 16:20 |
|
hdl |
mmm no |
| 16:21 |
|
cait |
hi hdl :) |
| 16:21 |
|
hilongo |
Even more ... TO the left of the search results page .. there is a filter that lets you select a Library to see only the records belonging to that one |
| 16:22 |
|
hilongo |
BUT .. it only lists the libraries that are visible on the current search result 'page' ... not all the libraries that have matching records |
| 16:24 |
|
hilongo |
thus... with recently added library... not only their records appear at the last pages, but their library name is not even listed in the Library selector |
| 16:25 |
|
wizzyrea |
hilongo: yep, that's very frustrating for those of us with more than 5 or so libraries |
| 16:25 |
|
wizzyrea |
do you have a branch created for your new library? |
| 16:25 |
|
wizzyrea |
have you actually created the library in koha? |
| 16:26 |
|
hilongo |
Yes .. I have set up branch for the new library |
| 16:27 |
|
hilongo |
if I skip to the last pages I can see the results belonging to it, and the library name is listed in the Filter |
| 16:30 |
|
wizzyrea |
hehehe! |
| 16:30 |
|
wizzyrea |
http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/7046237/ |
| 16:31 |
|
wizzyrea |
My librarians are awesome |
| 16:32 |
|
sekjal |
oooh, cake pans! |
| 16:32 |
|
wizzyrea |
:D |
| 16:33 |
|
wizzyrea |
I did a lightning round at our Tech day on xtranormal: I sold it by telling my librarians that "you know how you always want to make videos, but you never want to *appear* in the videos? This lets you do that" |
| 16:33 |
|
wizzyrea |
and omg. They loved it. |
| 16:34 |
|
wizzyrea |
someone told me that the library xtranormals were the first ones they'd seen that didn't include cursing. ;0 |
| 17:01 |
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| 17:10 |
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| 17:14 |
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| 17:22 |
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collum |
wizzyrea: That's cool! |
| 17:22 |
|
collum |
The xtranormals and the cake pans. Both. |
| 17:27 |
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| 17:59 |
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joetho |
general meeting less than one hour from now, correct? |
| 18:00 |
|
cait |
yes |
| 18:05 |
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joetho |
thx |
| 18:06 |
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| 18:31 |
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joetho |
T minus fifteen minutes, more or less. |
| 18:44 |
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| 18:45 |
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slef |
hi all |
| 18:46 |
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| 18:46 |
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gmcharlt |
hello folks |
| 18:46 |
|
hdl |
hi |
| 18:48 |
|
Colin |
evening all |
| 18:48 |
|
nengard |
afternoon |
| 18:48 |
|
chris |
morning |
| 18:48 |
|
nengard |
hehe |
| 18:48 |
|
gmcharlt |
meeting time |
| 18:48 |
|
|
thd-away left #koha |
| 18:48 |
|
gmcharlt |
agenda is at http://wiki.koha-community.org[…]_1_September_2010 |
| 18:48 |
|
|
thd-away joined #koha |
| 18:48 |
|
gmcharlt |
and the agenda items are |
| 18:48 |
|
gmcharlt |
Update on Roadmap to 3.2. |
| 18:48 |
|
gmcharlt |
Update on Roadmap to 3.0. |
| 18:48 |
|
gmcharlt |
Update on Roadmap to 3.4. |
| 18:48 |
|
gmcharlt |
Koha Holdings data fields (9xx). |
| 18:48 |
|
gmcharlt |
Follow-up on actions from General IRC Meeting, 11 August 2010. |
| 18:48 |
|
gmcharlt |
Agree times of next meetings. |
| 18:49 |
|
chris |
start with intros? |
| 18:49 |
|
gmcharlt |
indeed |
| 18:49 |
|
|
thd-away is now known as thd |
| 18:49 |
|
chris |
Chris Cormack, Catalyst IT, RM 3.4 |
| 18:49 |
|
* gmcharlt |
= Galen Charlton, 3.2RM |
| 18:49 |
|
* cait |
= Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany |
| 18:49 |
|
* nengard |
Nicole C. Engard, Doc Manager & ByWater Solutions |
| 18:49 |
|
jwagner |
Jane Wagner, PTFS |
| 18:49 |
|
* sekjal |
Ian Walls, ByWater Solutions |
| 18:49 |
|
* hdl |
Biblibre, RMaint 3.0 |
| 18:49 |
|
* slef |
= MJ Ray, extremely overworked co-owner of software.coop Koha support |
| 18:49 |
|
Colin |
= Colin Campbell PTFS-Europe |
| 18:49 |
|
joetho |
Joe Tholen SEKLS / Kansas |
| 18:50 |
|
* jcamins |
= Jared Camins-Esakov, consultant |
| 18:50 |
|
thd |
Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City |
| 18:50 |
|
|
irma joined #koha |
| 18:50 |
|
rhcl |
Greg Lawson, Rolling Hills Consolidated Library, St. Joseph, MO, USA |
| 18:51 |
|
gmcharlt |
thanks |
| 18:51 |
|
gmcharlt |
on to 3.2 |
| 18:51 |
|
gmcharlt |
on 8/24 BibLibre submitted a patch for bug 4310 |
| 18:51 |
|
munin |
Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4310 blocker, PATCH-Sent, ---, henridamien, NEW, No Migration for budgets from 3.0 to 3.2 |
| 18:51 |
|
irma |
Irma Birchall, CALYX information essentials, Sydney, Australia |
| 18:52 |
|
gmcharlt |
regarding the upgrade of acquisitiosn budgets from 3.0 to 3.2 |
| 18:52 |
|
rafael |
rafael antonio, Consultant, Portugal |
| 18:52 |
|
gmcharlt |
Colin: did you happen to have a chance to test that patch and determine if it results in a succesful upgrade of funds? |
| 18:53 |
|
Colin |
No. I'll see what it does. |
| 18:53 |
|
|
lculber joined #koha |
| 18:54 |
|
gmcharlt |
thanks |
| 18:54 |
|
gmcharlt |
at this point bug 4310 is the primary blocker; the result I'm prepared to bump to 3.4 |
| 18:54 |
|
joetho |
you mean in the agenda, right? |
| 18:55 |
|
gmcharlt |
joetho: wha? |
| 18:55 |
|
gmcharlt |
no, the classification of the bugs |
| 18:55 |
|
* wizzyrea |
Liz Rea NEKLS |
| 18:56 |
|
chris |
result = rest? |
| 18:56 |
|
hdl |
the rest of bugs ? |
| 18:56 |
|
gmcharlt |
sorry, yes, "rest" |
| 18:56 |
|
Nate |
Nate Curulla: ByWater Solutions (sorry im late) |
| 18:56 |
|
hdl |
So bugs will now be declared in 3.4 |
| 18:56 |
|
chris |
id hope some could be fixed for 3.2.1 :) or 3.2.2 |
| 18:56 |
|
thd |
'bump' is almost invariably ambiguous in actual usage |
| 18:56 |
|
hdl |
And cherrypicker onto 3.2 ? |
| 18:57 |
|
chris |
yep |
| 18:57 |
|
gmcharlt |
yep, that would be up to chris_n |
| 18:57 |
|
Colin |
are there any bugs in your queue for 3.2 not yet applied? |
| 18:57 |
|
hdl |
maybe we should ask folks to try and send on 3.2 and 3.4 if 3.2 and 3.4 diverge enough |
| 18:58 |
|
hdl |
Colin: who are you talking to ? |
| 18:58 |
|
gmcharlt |
Chris Nighswonger has been pretty explicity that he will not permit that kind of divergence |
| 18:58 |
|
Colin |
To Galen |
| 18:58 |
|
gmcharlt |
and I hope we all work to hold him to that |
| 18:58 |
|
chris |
lets all try to make it possible for him to do that |
| 18:59 |
|
hdl |
Can you be more explicit in how we could help him ? |
| 18:59 |
|
chris |
dont submit features for 3.2 |
| 18:59 |
|
hdl |
Yes... |
| 18:59 |
|
gmcharlt |
Colin: at this point 4310 is my primary concern |
| 19:00 |
|
chris |
everything goes to master, and is backported |
| 19:00 |
|
gmcharlt |
since we're veering into 3.4 |
| 19:00 |
|
gmcharlt |
let's go to the next item on the agenda |
| 19:00 |
|
* chris_n |
steps in late |
| 19:00 |
|
hdl |
But sometimes new features helps some bug fixing |
| 19:00 |
|
gmcharlt |
hdl: update on 3.0.x? |
| 19:00 |
|
chris |
and remind him, if he does put features in 3.2 that arent in master, that its a bad idea and please take it out |
| 19:01 |
|
hdl |
I had vacation for 2 weeks. |
| 19:01 |
|
* chris_n |
nails in a few more nails into the "no new features in 3.2.x" lid |
| 19:02 |
|
chris |
chris_n++ |
| 19:02 |
|
gmcharlt |
chris_n++ |
| 19:02 |
|
hdl |
And little time to package 3.0.7 and now, I would like to ask community if such a release would be really a good thing. |
| 19:02 |
|
chris |
hdl: im not sure it would be |
| 19:02 |
|
sekjal |
but new features that are already in HEAD would be alright to add to 3.2.x? Am I understanding that correctly? |
| 19:02 |
|
gmcharlt |
sekjal: if they can be cleanly cherry-picked |
| 19:03 |
|
cait |
chris_n++ |
| 19:03 |
|
nengard |
hdl i don't see us needing it if 3.2 is around the corner.. |
| 19:03 |
|
hdl |
Since imho, 3.2 release shouldnot be coming along with a 3.0 release |
| 19:03 |
|
chris |
hdl++ |
| 19:03 |
|
gmcharlt |
and any thing that involves a database update is carefully so that 3.0->3.4 and 3.2->3.4 woudl hvae the same result |
| 19:03 |
|
chris |
that would just be confusing |
| 19:03 |
|
slef |
Basic question: are there any really nasty bugs in 3.0.6? |
| 19:04 |
|
hdl |
well, we still had some. |
| 19:04 |
|
slef |
(I don't remember. We run git.) |
| 19:04 |
|
hdl |
there are bugs with holdings |
| 19:05 |
|
chris |
hdl: data loss bugs? |
| 19:05 |
|
hdl |
No. |
| 19:05 |
|
slef |
anything blocker or critical? |
| 19:05 |
|
hdl |
But hold notices not being sent. |
| 19:05 |
|
thd |
slef: the nastiest bugs are the ones essentially unreported especially if they are presumed to be features :) |
| 19:05 |
|
hdl |
(which from a librarian pov would be not only critical) |
| 19:06 |
|
gmcharlt |
if a bugfix release of 3.0.7 is warranted and ready to go, I don't have any particular objection to hdl doing it |
| 19:07 |
|
gmcharlt |
not all 3.0.x users are going to want to jump to 3.2.0 instantly anyway |
| 19:07 |
|
hdl |
But is there 3.0.x users ? |
| 19:07 |
|
thd |
gmcharlt makes a good point that users may choose to wait before migrating to 3.2 |
| 19:07 |
|
|
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| 19:07 |
|
gmcharlt |
hdl: presumably |
| 19:20 |
|
slef |
There are 3.0.x users who approach software.coop for support/upgrades. |
| 19:20 |
|
hdl |
we have some, but most of them are on a git version of 3.0.x |
| 19:20 |
|
|
mib_473wj left #koha |
| 19:20 |
|
hdl |
now |
| 19:20 |
|
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logbot left #koha |
| 19:20 |
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logbot joined #koha |
| 19:20 |
|
|
Topic for #koha is now Koha, a free integrated library system - http://koha-community.org/. Logged: http://stats.workbuffer.org/irclog/koha/. Pastes: http://paste.koha-community.org |
| 19:21 |
|
hdl |
So 3.0.7 on the way |
| 19:21 |
|
gmcharlt |
anyway - I think upshot is that if hdl wants to do a 3.0.7 release, no objections; if he doesn't want to, that would also be fine |
| 19:21 |
|
gmcharlt |
cool |
| 19:21 |
|
gmcharlt |
moving on to next item on agenda |
| 19:21 |
|
gmcharlt |
3.4 - chris? |
| 19:21 |
|
|
Elwell joined #koha |
| 19:22 |
|
chris |
right |
| 19:22 |
|
rafael |
We in PT are now confident on 3.0.6 and would like to still some time with a stable environment |
| 19:22 |
|
hdl |
tx rafael |
| 19:22 |
|
chris |
so id like to open it up to people to start sending in patches for 3.4 |
| 19:23 |
|
gmcharlt |
+1 |
| 19:23 |
|
chris |
i intend to use a system like this |
| 19:23 |
|
chris |
http://patches.workbuffer.org/ |
| 19:23 |
|
nengard |
will patches sent to head that haven't made it to 3.2 be considered for 3.4? |
| 19:23 |
|
chris |
yes |
| 19:23 |
|
nengard |
k |
| 19:24 |
|
chris |
i will try to fill that awaiting_qa directory with those :) |
| 19:24 |
|
nengard |
sounds good |
| 19:24 |
|
chris |
i would love for others to apply patches, sign off and resend them too |
| 19:25 |
|
hdl |
would some branches not be more useful for ppl. |
| 19:25 |
|
gmcharlt |
hdl: topic branches? yes, I would think so |
| 19:25 |
|
hdl |
lik a qa brach ? |
| 19:25 |
|
chris |
there will be branches too |
| 19:25 |
|
hdl |
and ft branches ? |
| 19:25 |
|
hdl |
ok |
| 19:25 |
|
hdl |
good |
| 19:25 |
|
chris |
its just a bunch easier to see a list of patches in a dir |
| 19:25 |
|
slef |
I think we need some tracking. Looking at chris's link. |
| 19:25 |
|
chris |
than git log |
| 19:25 |
|
gmcharlt |
Colin: are you intend to set up a QA tree? |
| 19:26 |
|
Colin |
That seems logical. I should probably look at what's been posted the last couple of months and not applied |
| 19:27 |
|
hdl |
chris resending patches on list would rapidly mess all the interest of list, unless we agree on a tag in subject. |
| 19:27 |
|
chris |
hdl: it would be better if people would send them first to someone else to signoff |
| 19:27 |
|
hdl |
say [sign-off] or [tested] |
| 19:27 |
|
chris |
then to the list |
| 19:28 |
|
nengard |
chris who is that someone? |
| 19:28 |
|
chris |
itd be nice to have patches to the list be signed off by at least one other person, if possible |
| 19:28 |
|
chris |
nengard: different people all the time |
| 19:28 |
|
nengard |
the idea being that at least someone else has looked at it? got it |
| 19:28 |
|
chris |
usually there is at least one other person interested in the bug/enhancnement |
| 19:28 |
|
jwagner |
How do people working on things know where/who to send patches to? |
| 19:28 |
|
chris |
they talk |
| 19:29 |
|
nengard |
:) |
| 19:29 |
|
hdl |
hehe jwagner++ |
| 19:29 |
|
chris |
attaching the patch to the bug |
| 19:29 |
|
chris |
with a message please apply and signoff |
| 19:29 |
|
chris |
is a good way to do it |
| 19:29 |
|
jwagner |
That was a serious question, by the way. Are we supposed to go on the listserv every time? |
| 19:29 |
|
slef |
chris: Can you somehow link to the mails on -patches as well as having files in that AutoIndex? |
| 19:29 |
|
gmcharlt |
jwagner: it can be any number of approaches |
| 19:29 |
|
nengard |
chris's answer was serious too i think |
| 19:29 |
|
chris |
jwagner: id expect all ptfs patches to at least have 1 other ptfs person |
| 19:29 |
|
gmcharlt |
formal relationships between entities to test each others patches |
| 19:29 |
|
gmcharlt |
requests on IRC |
| 19:30 |
|
gmcharlt |
on the mailing lists |
| 19:30 |
|
sekjal |
my plan has been to put any specifications to which I'm developing up on the wiki, so folks can provide feedback, criticism, ideas, etc. then from the traffic on that page I'd have a good idea who's interested |
| 19:30 |
|
jwagner |
Yes, chris and I crossed in midstream |
| 19:30 |
|
jwagner |
His approach sounds feasible. |
| 19:30 |
|
chris |
sekjal: good plan |
| 19:31 |
|
slef |
It would be nice to crossreference the patches mails, the bugs and the release management process, but I'm unsure how best to do that. |
| 19:31 |
|
chris |
at the moment, i sign off robins, he signs off mine at catalyst, i signed off one for wizzy the other day .. more of that would be good |
| 19:31 |
|
Colin |
It would be a good idea where there's a default assignee in bugzilla that you ask them |
| 19:31 |
|
|
gbengaada joined #koha |
| 19:31 |
|
chris |
Colin++ |
| 19:32 |
|
gmcharlt |
ok |
| 19:32 |
|
hdl |
sekjal: have been doing but sending a mail on koha-devel list to announce that could also be interesting. |
| 19:32 |
|
|
irma left #koha |
| 19:32 |
|
gmcharlt |
upshot: chris will start accepting patches for 3.4; discussion of sign-offs |
| 19:32 |
|
gmcharlt |
moving in the agenda |
| 19:32 |
|
chris |
slef: bug ids in commit messages helps |
| 19:32 |
|
gmcharlt |
we have |
| 19:32 |
|
gmcharlt |
4. Koha Holdings data fields (9xx). |
| 19:32 |
|
|
irma joined #koha |
| 19:33 |
|
chris |
ahh this was zeno |
| 19:33 |
|
chris |
who isnt here? |
| 19:33 |
|
gmcharlt |
right |
| 19:33 |
|
thd |
I could comment |
| 19:33 |
|
chris |
do you know what he was asking thd? |
| 19:33 |
|
slef |
thd wrote a conversion guide back for 2.x, so it would be an interesting comment IMO |
| 19:33 |
|
hdl |
I could too. |
| 19:33 |
|
thd |
I remember the question which he posed on the mailing list. |
| 19:33 |
|
gmcharlt |
thd: go for it |
| 19:34 |
|
slef |
I'm looking for a link to the question. Which list? |
| 19:34 |
|
hdl |
koha-devel and koha iirc |
| 19:34 |
|
thd |
Zeno was asking about standardised use of holdings. |
| 19:35 |
|
thd |
slef: search both koha and koha-devel for 995 in the subject |
| 19:35 |
|
hdl |
To define default 9xx fields for Unimarc setup in alllanguages |
| 19:36 |
|
slef |
http://comments.gmane.org/gman[…]s.koha.devel/4775 |
| 19:36 |
|
slef |
key point: unimarc "on local fields English and French are not compatible" |
| 19:37 |
|
thd |
I did not have time to give a nuanced answer but the answer which Zeno was given on the list is that it was up to the library to define the links between the Koha MARC holdings field and the items column in the database in an appropriate manner for the particular library |
| 19:37 |
|
slef |
zeno's proposal "We re-write English setup in 9xx fields" so that they are compatible. |
| 19:37 |
|
thd |
There are problems |
| 19:37 |
|
gmcharlt |
I wonder how many English-speaking UNIMARC users there actually are |
| 19:38 |
|
slef |
I think all current software.coop clients are MARC21, even some non-English ones, but davi might correct me on that. |
| 19:38 |
|
hdl |
gmcharlt: in fact, UNIMARC english frameworks are installed by default. |
| 19:38 |
|
gmcharlt |
but at least for indexing of item records, there would be a way to make it a non-issue, at least for item fields that are stored in the items table outside of more_subfields_xml |
| 19:38 |
|
cait |
our german libraries are all marc21 too |
| 19:39 |
|
thd |
Recommandation 995 is designed initially to facilitate interlibrary loans and is insufficient as holdings format. |
| 19:39 |
|
slef |
cait++ |
| 19:39 |
|
gmcharlt |
and that would be to change the serialization of the item records for indexing purposes |
| 19:39 |
|
gmcharlt |
e.g., wrap bib MARCXML plus items expressed as XML |
| 19:40 |
|
gmcharlt |
and use DOM mode for indexing bibs |
| 19:40 |
|
gmcharlt |
at least in the context of the current Zebra setup |
| 19:40 |
|
hdl |
thd: you can use non standard item subfields. |
| 19:40 |
|
thd |
Fortunately, even the latest version of Recommandation 995 leaves some fields undefined. |
| 19:40 |
|
rafael |
Continental European countries are mainly UNIMARC so to become KOHA universal we need to accept a common framework |
| 19:40 |
|
thd |
hdl: yes. there are gaps in the standard. |
| 19:40 |
|
gmcharlt |
that way, the specific 995, 952, etc. serialization of item records embedded in bib data is less relevant to indexing |
| 19:40 |
|
hdl |
gmcharlt: this would also be quite interesting in order to get items out of biblioitems.marcmxl |
| 19:40 |
|
chris |
s/KOHA/Koha/ :) |
| 19:41 |
|
* chris |
has one of his pet peeves poked |
| 19:41 |
|
hdl |
thd: very little gaps. |
| 19:41 |
|
gmcharlt |
of course, as rafael implies, there would be data interchange reasons for UNIMARC users to achieve more consitency of 995 field usage |
| 19:41 |
|
thd |
gmcharlt could you explain the XML wrapping idea more fully? |
| 19:41 |
|
hdl |
http://www.adbdp.asso.fr/IMG/pdf_r995.pdf |
| 19:42 |
|
chris |
so i think we might be getting off topic a bit |
| 19:42 |
|
chris |
since this wont be done for 3.2 |
| 19:42 |
|
hdl |
definitely. |
| 19:42 |
|
hdl |
But still, for 3.4 |
| 19:42 |
|
chris_n |
sounds like a list discussion to me |
| 19:42 |
|
chris |
maybe move it to an rfc for 3.4 |
| 19:43 |
|
hdl |
getting out items from biblioitems should be given a try. |
| 19:43 |
|
chris |
or an rfc and a list discussion :) |
| 19:43 |
|
pastebot |
"gmcharlt" at 98.70.42.64 pasted "for thd - how a bib record could be sent to Zebra for indexing" (8 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/59 |
| 19:43 |
|
slef |
chris: but PTFS say it's KOHA and they own us, right? |
| 19:43 |
|
* slef |
runs |
| 19:44 |
|
* Braedon |
hides slef |
| 19:44 |
|
cait |
not sure this was really necessary |
| 19:44 |
|
gmcharlt |
chris: hdl: thd: yep, ultimately an RFC or list discussion |
| 19:44 |
|
thd |
if the discussion scope is limited to 3.2 then I see no significant problem with Zeno's proposal other than French libraries for which 995 is relevant have a different mapping. |
| 19:45 |
|
gmcharlt |
thd: if nobody is truly using the English UNIMARC setup, updating it to be a copy of the French 995 mapping (with different labels, of course), would be simple |
| 19:46 |
|
gmcharlt |
depends, I guess, on the starting point for the libraries that rafael mentioned |
| 19:47 |
|
thd |
The more interesting issue for me is the one brought up by ebegin about lack of consistency for numeric statuses in actual usage despite some values being defined in the code. |
| 19:47 |
|
thd |
I think that more interesting issue is also for 3.4 |
| 19:47 |
|
davi |
slef, you are right. All are MARC21 |
| 19:48 |
|
rafael |
which countries are using French mapping or English mapping ? |
| 19:48 |
|
gmcharlt |
thd: that can only go so far - common values for some statuses is achievable, but at some point there will be additional ones that a library might add to represent purely local considerations |
| 19:49 |
|
slef |
Can we run a call for people to comment on koha-community.org if they use English UNIMARC? Announce it to koha and code4lib and maybe others. |
| 19:49 |
|
thd |
English UNIMARC was created as noted in the file comment from some unchecked work of a librarian where I only tried to follow the standard for Recommandation 995 instead of French Koha use. |
| 19:49 |
|
hdl |
koha-infos |
| 19:49 |
|
slef |
rafael: do you have English UNIMARC mappings? |
| 19:49 |
|
slef |
davi: thanks for the info |
| 19:49 |
|
gmcharlt |
slef: zeno (or whoever) could certainly put on a blog post on k-c.org to try to solict more feedback |
| 19:49 |
|
thd |
As noted in the comments I do not consider unchecked work safe for actual use. |
| 19:50 |
|
thd |
I know there are important things missing from the English framework but only added the most obvious. |
| 19:50 |
|
Colin |
In a few years of experience I've only encountered Unimarc in Francophone Europe, Portugal, Italy |
| 19:50 |
|
slef |
rafael: I meant, do you have libraries using the English UNIMARC mappings? |
| 19:50 |
|
rafael |
well I was trying to follow English to maintain as much compability as possible and it works and is enough but may be we could try a common framework for 3.4 |
| 19:51 |
|
slef |
Colin: moi aussi... les allemands sont plus sages ;-) |
| 19:51 |
|
hdl |
Portugal and Italy are not francophone. |
| 19:51 |
|
cait |
slef: can you translate? |
| 19:51 |
|
gmcharlt |
I think for the moment we've talked this one out --- additional discussion to blogs or email |
| 19:51 |
|
hdl |
and Russia and Georgia are also using UNIMARC |
| 19:51 |
|
slef |
hdl: imagine a + sign, not a union |
| 19:51 |
|
thd |
fredericd had told me that one of his libraries was using it. I cautioned him about incompleteness. |
| 19:51 |
|
Colin |
That was a list francophone is Belgium Switzerland etc (part of in both cases) |
| 19:51 |
|
slef |
cait: probably. |
| 19:52 |
|
gmcharlt |
moving on in the agenda |
| 19:52 |
|
gmcharlt |
action items from General IRC Meeting, 11 August 2010. |
| 19:52 |
|
* slef |
hides in shame |
| 19:52 |
|
thd |
I have had delay from my computer but I am using it now. |
| 19:52 |
|
rafael |
We follow as much possible MARC concepts and UNIMARC for bibliographic description but 9xx could be common to everybody |
| 19:52 |
|
gmcharlt |
I think main pending one would be organizing vote for relicensing |
| 19:53 |
|
thd |
Tonight, I should post a message which SFLC sent me a month ago. |
| 19:53 |
|
davi |
Also, I think Koha should not use 952, as it is OBSOLETE as per http://www.loc.gov/marc/bibliographic/bd9xx.html |
| 19:53 |
|
davi |
? |
| 19:53 |
|
slef |
I've got at least two very unfun items on my todo list about the relicensing: vote format and one of the summaries. Nothing blocking them really, just the volume of paid work I've got to do. |
| 19:53 |
|
gmcharlt |
and at this point ... action on part of people to set up vote, define ballotts, etc. will determine if/when it takes place |
| 19:53 |
|
thd |
Sorry that ###gparted caused me such trouble in fixing my partitions. |
| 19:53 |
|
slef |
davi: that's a different discussion. Add it to next agenda? |
| 19:54 |
|
davi |
s/use/encourage the use/ |
| 19:54 |
|
davi |
ack |
| 19:54 |
|
slef |
rst |
| 19:54 |
|
davi |
yes, please add to next agenda |
| 19:54 |
|
gmcharlt |
davi: general comment - 9xx fields are specifically for local use |
| 19:54 |
|
davi |
I know but |
| 19:54 |
|
slef |
ok, I'll probably mention the 952/852 thing on list |
| 19:54 |
|
davi |
952 is OBSOLETE as per http://www.loc.gov/marc/bibliographic/bd9xx.html |
| 19:55 |
|
davi |
and so maybe Koha should not encourage its use |
| 19:55 |
|
gmcharlt |
davi: I suggest reading the description of that tag on that document |
| 19:55 |
|
rafael |
even if for local use do they have any impact on Koha scripts ??? |
| 19:55 |
|
hdl |
and MARC is dead... ;) |
| 19:55 |
|
gmcharlt |
LC is referring to an antique CAN/MARC usage; has nothing to do with Koha at this point |
| 19:55 |
|
slef |
rafael: bulkmarcimport takes item info from 952s |
| 19:56 |
|
rafael |
so we need to have a common framework.... |
| 19:56 |
|
gmcharlt |
rafael: more precisely, bulkmarcimport uses what ever tag has been defined as the item tag per the MARC frameworks/item mapping in effect in the Koha database |
| 19:56 |
|
gmcharlt |
rafael: so 952 if you're a MARC21 user, 995 if you're a UNIMARC user |
| 19:56 |
|
gmcharlt |
or something else if you've customized your frameworks |
| 19:56 |
|
rafael |
thanks |
| 19:56 |
|
hdl |
but only with one tag for item information |
| 19:57 |
|
gmcharlt |
final item of the agenda - decide next time |
| 19:57 |
|
thd |
davi: gmcharlt had the answer for you. I can explain more after the meeting. |
| 19:57 |
|
davi |
ack, thanks thd |
| 19:57 |
|
gmcharlt |
the first Wendesday in October is 10/6 |
| 19:57 |
|
gmcharlt |
10:00 UTC+0 ? |
| 19:57 |
|
* gmcharlt |
says, blearily in advance |
| 19:58 |
|
|
rafael left #koha |
| 19:58 |
|
gmcharlt |
so ... |
| 19:58 |
|
thd |
10 UTC is a very good time :) |
| 19:59 |
|
thd |
+1 |
| 19:59 |
|
davi |
+1 |
| 19:59 |
|
hdl |
what time is it for you gmcharlt? |
| 19:59 |
|
gmcharlt |
hdl: too dang early |
| 19:59 |
|
hdl |
4AM ? |
| 20:00 |
|
chris |
11pm for me, thats ok |
| 20:00 |
|
thd |
gmcharlt: There is plenty of time to sleep after the meeting :) |
| 20:01 |
|
chris_n |
thd: only if you don't go to work at a location too distant |
| 20:01 |
|
gmcharlt |
hdl: something like that; main reason is that we've been running the past few meetings at a bad time for those in India, so it's time to do a 10:00 UTC |
| 20:01 |
|
hdl |
+1 then |
| 20:01 |
|
indradg |
gmcharlt, +1 |
| 20:01 |
|
slef |
You can practice for kohacon jetlag early! |
| 20:01 |
|
* chris_n |
would rather that than 6 or 7 utc |
| 20:01 |
|
* wizzyrea |
will attend from bed |
| 20:01 |
|
chris_n |
+1 |
| 20:01 |
|
thd |
It is only fair to provide for globally appropriate times |
| 20:02 |
|
irma |
+1 |
| 20:02 |
|
gbengaada |
+1 |
| 20:02 |
|
gmcharlt |
ok, so it's set at 6 October, 10:00 UTC+0 |
| 20:02 |
|
indradg |
yes... its 1:32 in the morning here in India, so +1 |
| 20:02 |
|
davi |
+1 |
| 20:02 |
|
indradg |
:) |
| 20:02 |
|
gmcharlt |
thanks all - meeting adjourned |
| 20:02 |
|
hdl |
hi indradg. |
| 20:02 |
|
|
LBA joined #koha |
| 20:02 |
|
* wizzyrea |
realizes that is the week before she leaves for NZ... squees a little |
| 20:02 |
|
hdl |
see you. |
| 20:03 |
|
thd |
davi: I can explain more about 952 now |
| 20:03 |
|
* hdl |
can't wait meeting all those ppl |
| 20:03 |
|
davi |
thanks thd |
| 20:03 |
|
|
lculber left #koha |
| 20:03 |
|
|
nengard left #koha |
| 20:04 |
|
slef |
squees? |
| 20:04 |
|
davi |
Just I wanted to noted that maybe Koha should not encourage the use of 952 as it is marked as OBSOLETE at http://www.loc.gov/marc/bibliographic/bd9xx.html |
| 20:04 |
|
davi |
What do you think about it thd ? |
| 20:04 |
|
wizzyrea |
it's an expression denoting a squeal-like vocalization |
| 20:05 |
|
chris |
ok time to get the kids ready for the day |
| 20:05 |
|
jcamins |
davi: the 9xx fields are all local. Anyone can use them for whatever they want. That page from LC is talking about the old CANMARC standard. |
| 20:05 |
|
thd |
952 was chosen by Nelsonville Public Library sponsoring paul_p's work to create a MARC version of Koha for the first time out of non-MARC Koha. |
| 20:05 |
|
cait |
davi: 9xx fields are local, not part of the standard |
| 20:05 |
|
davi |
jcamins, Do you knwo some page which document the non-old MARC21 standard? |
| 20:06 |
|
jcamins |
The LC website. |
| 20:06 |
|
davi |
thanks |
| 20:06 |
|
jcamins |
That *specific* page describes fields that were used in the old standard. |
| 20:07 |
|
davi |
good good, thanks |
| 20:07 |
|
jcamins |
We need to use a local field for holdings information, because the standard field doesn't have enough information. |
| 20:07 |
|
jcamins |
@marc 852 |
| 20:07 |
|
munin |
jcamins: Identifies the organization holding the item or from which it is available. May also contain detailed information about how to locate the item in a collection. (Repeatable) [a,b,c,e,f,g,h,i,j,k,l,m,n,p,q,s,t,u,x,z,2,3,6,8] |
| 20:07 |
|
thd |
Unfortunately, libraries use 9XX to do important things which creates something of an extended standard and some libraries somewhere have old records with 952 data from CAN/MARC. |
| 20:07 |
|
irma |
http://www.loc.gov/marc/bibliographic/ |
| 20:08 |
|
thd |
davi: The problem with using 852 is that what is needed for Koha does not match the usage of 852. |
| 20:08 |
|
* chris |
wanders off |
| 20:08 |
|
davi |
thd, Should Koha be modified to adapt to match the standard? |
| 20:09 |
|
davi |
I think the standard should be more important than the usage? |
| 20:09 |
|
thd |
I tried to make 952 usage more compatible with 852 for 3.0 development but my attempt at better conformity with the standard lost out to the need to include columns which are not standard in 852. |
| 20:09 |
|
irma |
davi, after kohacon10 @ the hackfest some some work will be done on this |
| 20:10 |
|
jcamins |
davi: I don't think that's reasonable, because 952 contains a lot of important information which is not in the 852. |
| 20:10 |
|
davi |
thanks |
| 20:10 |
|
gmcharlt |
davi: jcamins is right - there is *no* standard serialization that covers everything one might store in an item record, be the ILS Koha or anything else |
| 20:10 |
|
thd |
davi: Koha should be able to support standard holdings which uses multiple fields not just 852 for MARC 21. |
| 20:11 |
|
slef |
the standard should be more important than the usage, but sometimes performance (CPU or developer) needs override both |
| 20:11 |
|
davi |
I see 9XX is needed as exposed by somebody above |
| 20:11 |
|
cait |
thd: standard holdings are a bit of a nightmare and still missing fields |
| 20:11 |
|
cait |
thd: our union catalog can export marc21 holdings |
| 20:11 |
|
slef |
it would be nice if Koha tools imported/exported 852s more easily - conversion is not the most fun sort of work |
| 20:11 |
|
thd |
davi: The one MARC field design limitation requires a design change which is present in the LLEK fork and in a fork in Cyprus which inspired the feature in LLEK. |
| 20:12 |
|
|
anitsirk joined #koha |
| 20:12 |
|
davi |
About rel-licensing, if any |
| 20:13 |
|
davi |
Has been AGPLv3+, GPLv3+, proposals written? |
| 20:13 |
|
davi |
so I can review the AGPLv3+ ? |
| 20:13 |
|
thd |
cait: Do you mean that standard MARC 21 holdings does not track everything which the ILS tracks for holdings? |
| 20:13 |
|
|
irma left #koha |
| 20:13 |
|
cait |
thd: at least I am not sure about it |
| 20:14 |
|
|
irma joined #koha |
| 20:14 |
|
cait |
we don't have all information in the union catalog, so I don't know all fields |
| 20:14 |
|
thd |
davi: the *GPL discussion has merely been delayed by my broken and now fixed computer. |
| 20:14 |
|
gmcharlt |
thd: cait: they don't - simple as that. for example, the no MFHD or 852 standard encompasses the concept of an item statistical category |
| 20:14 |
|
cait |
but I think fields as overall checkouts, holds, renewals, last checkout date will not be part of the standard |
| 20:15 |
|
gmcharlt |
exactly |
| 20:15 |
|
davi |
ack thd |
| 20:15 |
|
thd |
I do not think it important for a holdings standard to retain all transient data. |
| 20:16 |
|
cait |
It's part of the item data is all ils I know |
| 20:17 |
|
gmcharlt |
thd: who is to define what is important or not for a data migration or, more generally, data interchange |
| 20:17 |
|
thd |
gmcharlt: everything is important for data migration |
| 20:17 |
|
gmcharlt |
your "transient data" is my discovery system's gold mine of statistical information that can improve search results, for example |
| 20:17 |
|
thd |
losing data is a sin |
| 20:18 |
|
thd |
data interchange importance is merely what people agree is important with whomever they wish to interchange data |
| 20:19 |
|
|
LBA left #koha |
| 20:19 |
|
indradg |
hdl, hi |
| 20:20 |
|
thd |
The problem is that one instance of [0-9a-z] from one field is not enough for everything which people want for holdings even on a long term basis and we need some method around that difficulty at least where indexing the data is important. |
| 20:23 |
|
cait |
ok, I already started on the upper case letters ;) |
| 20:23 |
|
thd |
Koha 3.0 design presumed that one instance of [0-9a-z] had to be enough because that was the existing design in Koha and the desire was to release 3.0 sooner than would have been practical with a redesign of holdings. |
| 20:23 |
|
davi |
What is the the library you have seen which more do a use more extensive of MARC21 ? |
| 20:24 |
|
thd |
cait: just be careful that the code does not clobber your data :) |
| 20:24 |
|
davi |
The library of Congress maybe? |
| 20:24 |
|
cait |
yeah, I am, but so far it seems to be no problem |
| 20:24 |
|
cait |
and it is standard compliant |
| 20:24 |
|
thd |
davi: What do you mean by more extensive? |
| 20:25 |
|
davi |
Using as much MARC fields |
| 20:25 |
|
davi |
Some libraries use just a very small subset, you know |
| 20:25 |
|
cait |
of 952 subfields or marc21 in general? |
| 20:25 |
|
thd |
davi: LC is the largest library, however, OCLC would have the most diverse set of records. |
| 20:26 |
|
davi |
both, as both are part of MARC21? |
| 20:26 |
|
davi |
I think 9XX is part also |
| 20:26 |
|
davi |
even if defined for local use only |
| 20:26 |
|
cait |
hm I think you could argue about the 9xx fields |
| 20:26 |
|
thd |
OCLC is a consortia, not a library of course. |
| 20:26 |
|
cait |
and x9x , xx0 |
| 20:26 |
|
davi |
thanks thd |
| 20:26 |
|
slef |
OCLC is a co-operative |
| 20:26 |
|
thd |
s/consortia/union catalogue/ |
| 20:27 |
|
thd |
as slef said |
| 20:27 |
|
cait |
I think they are great differneces in libraries |
| 20:27 |
|
jcamins |
davi: 9xx is not part of the MARC21 standard, because each library can choose a different meaning. |
| 20:28 |
|
thd |
davi: I will try to restart discussions on *GPL on the mailing list tonight. |
| 20:28 |
|
thd |
My computer had been fixed a week ago but I helped a couple of people move |
| 20:28 |
|
davi |
jcamins, However 9xx use for "local use" is defined in the MARC21 standard, isn't it? |
| 20:29 |
|
cait |
yes, but what fields and subfields you define, repeatable not repeatable is up to the library |
| 20:29 |
|
jcamins |
Oh, you're saying that MARC21-compliant records can have 9xx fields? |
| 20:29 |
|
davi |
thd, I think what we needed was just post draft of voting options (in wiki?) and then begin the review process in the mailing lists and so on, before beginning the voting? |
| 20:29 |
|
jcamins |
Yes, of course. But the meaning of any of those fields is not standard. |
| 20:29 |
|
thd |
davi: yes all of that |
| 20:29 |
|
davi |
ack |
| 20:30 |
|
cait |
for Germany the 9xx fields got divided between union catalogs, national library and some others |
| 20:30 |
|
cait |
so I know which I can use safely and will not get problems with data interchange in Germany |
| 20:30 |
|
davi |
jcamins, The meaning not, but the 9xx use yes |
| 20:31 |
|
cait |
not sure if this is done somewhere else too |
| 20:31 |
|
jcamins |
Yes, any field with a 9 in it (so, 9xx, x9x, or xx9) is local. |
| 20:31 |
|
* gmcharlt |
says, pendantically, except the 490 ;) |
| 20:31 |
|
thd |
davi: and I look to slef to supply one or more options for a vote to consensus process which allows revoting. |
| 20:32 |
|
indradg |
folks... sorry to barge in in the 9xx discussion, but I was wondering what do I need to do to feed Koha from a custom book cover source (i.e. non-amazon / google / syndatics)? |
| 20:32 |
|
|
richard joined #koha |
| 20:32 |
|
jcamins |
gmcharlt: apologies. I'm still in denial. |
| 20:33 |
|
* cait |
adds the $9 subfields |
| 20:33 |
|
davi |
thd, Allow re-voting and editing vote and so on is a good more IMHO |
| 20:33 |
|
cait |
not as exception, but as being local |
| 20:33 |
|
jcamins |
indradg: at the moment, there's no easy way to do it, I don't think. |
| 20:35 |
|
jcamins |
You can modify the XSLT stylesheet to include an <img>, if the cover images are named predictably. |
| 20:35 |
|
indradg |
jcamins, just as I thought |
| 20:35 |
|
Colin |
gmcharlt: did you see the other patch I sent a while back to get updatedatebase working? |
| 20:36 |
|
gmcharlt |
Colin: yep - I can push it, although hope to hear results of your testing the patch for 4310 |
| 20:36 |
|
cait |
gmcharlt: so only patches for the acq blocker will get into 3.2 now? no other bug fixes? |
| 20:36 |
|
jcamins |
I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to do, but if you just need to associate an image with each record, you can take a look at the image_library branch in my repository (http://github.com/jcamins/koha ). |
| 20:36 |
|
gmcharlt |
cait: I'll do a final round of pushing *safe* bugfixes when I push the acq upgrade fixes |
| 20:36 |
|
cait |
I have a lot of pending patches, just wondering :) |
| 20:36 |
|
Colin |
First attempt failed - I'm restoring for a closer look |
| 20:37 |
|
cait |
ah ok |
| 20:37 |
|
thd |
gmcharlt: Yes, the XML meta-record wrapper is what should be done for holdings. |
| 20:37 |
|
indradg |
jcamins, the case is this, my client - the principal govt library in my home state of West Bengal (india) is planning on a tie-up with local indian publishers for cover image syndication (nothing like this really exists for local (non-english) publications)... its not a Koha case yet, I'm trying to convince :) |
| 20:37 |
|
cait |
safe as not changing templates or include database updates? |
| 20:38 |
|
jcamins |
indradg: I see. In that case you'd need some sort of API, probably. |
| 20:39 |
|
thd |
gmcharlt: I have a more radical idea of making MARC merely an import and export format with lossless conversion to and from a more granular XML format. |
| 20:40 |
|
cait |
gmcharlt: I don't want to bug, just keeping track of my pending patches :) |
| 20:40 |
|
gmcharlt |
thd: interesting idea - although the irony is that MARCXML, for the most part, *is* the most granular of the variousXML metadata formats |
| 20:40 |
|
cait |
and working on one more to repair email notification of new serial issues |
| 20:41 |
|
gmcharlt |
cait: no string changes; DB udpates may be OK, but criteria is that fix be obviously correct |
| 20:41 |
|
cait |
ok, thx! |
| 20:41 |
|
jcamins |
thd: that's pretty radical. |
| 20:41 |
|
thd |
gmcharlt: I intend to extend the RDA enhanced XML schema whenever they have time to publish it |
| 20:43 |
|
thd |
jcamins: there should be no nonsense such as numeric values in the same subfield as the units being designated and no language specific strings encoding information such as pagination. |
| 20:43 |
|
jcamins |
It is a beautiful dream. |
| 20:44 |
|
cait |
yes |
| 20:44 |
|
jcamins |
I'm not quite sure how practical it is, but I certainly like the idea. |
| 20:44 |
|
thd |
jcamins, gmcharlt: Everything which can be normalised should be so the automation systems can actually use the data and not wait for the humans to interpret the data :) |
| 20:45 |
|
thd |
jcamins: RDA is built from such an XML format although less granular than what I describe. |
| 20:45 |
|
cait |
thd: can we get rid of the isbd punctuaton too? |
| 20:45 |
|
jcamins |
cait++ |
| 20:45 |
|
Colin |
cait++ |
| 20:46 |
|
thd |
cait: we will never be rid of it but we can relieve cataloguers of the need to create the punctuation. |
| 20:46 |
|
jcamins |
thd: unfortunately, RDA is too expensive to be a viable standard. |
| 20:46 |
|
jcamins |
At least, from my point of view it is. |
| 20:47 |
|
cait |
In my dream world the system will take care of it, even stripping it from incoming data or tables like biblio and biblioitems |
| 20:47 |
|
thd |
jcamins: I have been discussing a remedy for the cost with the publishers |
| 20:47 |
|
Colin |
When UK libraries went from UKMARC to marc21 I wrote lots of complex code to put the punctuation in going "This is wrong" to anyone who would listen |
| 20:47 |
|
jcamins |
Did anyone listen? |
| 20:47 |
|
cait |
same here |
| 20:48 |
|
cait |
the german exchange format does not include punctuation |
| 20:48 |
|
Colin |
yes but they could only sympathize |
| 20:48 |
|
cait |
but worldcat wants it and koha looks strange without |
| 20:48 |
|
cait |
so they had to write that complex code too |
| 20:48 |
|
thd |
jcamins: A free version of RDA will probably take a couple of years but the publishers are listening as is the president of W3C. |
| 20:49 |
|
sekjal |
goodnight, #koha! |
| 20:49 |
|
|
sekjal left #koha |
| 20:49 |
|
thd |
cait: Automation systems are responsible for creating ISBD publication in UNIMARC. |
| 20:50 |
|
cait |
thd: sorry, i dont understand |
| 20:50 |
|
thd |
s/publication/punctuation/ |
| 20:50 |
|
cait |
ah |
| 20:50 |
|
cait |
so UNIMARC uses isbd punctuation too? |
| 20:50 |
|
cait |
or can use? |
| 20:51 |
|
jcamins |
Well, let's hope that A) RDA turns out to be less of a disaster than it looks like coming down the pike and B) the high cost doesn't render it a lame duck before the publishers manage to make it affordable. |
| 20:51 |
|
cait |
our horizon systems use unimarc without isbd punctuation |
| 20:51 |
|
thd |
cait: UNIMARC defines the rules by which automation systems create ISBD publication. |
| 20:51 |
|
thd |
s/publication/punctuation/ |
| 20:51 |
|
thd |
:) |
| 20:52 |
|
thd |
cait: MAB had been similar in some respects. |
| 20:53 |
|
cait |
don't know MAB so well, Koha is the main reason I had to learn about bibliographic data formats |
| 20:53 |
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Colin |
gmcharlt: the 4310 fix does not work |
| 20:54 |
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thd |
cait: at the last MARBI meeting for the MARC 21 standard a proposal form DDB passed to set a fixed filed value designating that the record does not contain some ISBD punctuation and that consequently the automation system must supply the missing punctuation where needed. |
| 20:54 |
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cait |
ah yes |
| 20:55 |
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cait |
one of my coworkers was at the marbi meeting |
| 20:56 |
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cait |
I am still working on the hierarchies between titles... but I am very slow |
| 20:56 |
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thd |
cait: The MAB practise had still been to include much more ISBD punctuation than UNIMARC which leaves the problem to automation. |
| 20:56 |
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cait |
I m all for leave it to automation |
| 20:56 |
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| 20:56 |
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cait |
but I am not so happy with the decision to not have isbd punctuation, because it's a terrible mix now |
| 20:57 |
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cait |
download a record from loc and you have punctuation, download one from another source, no isbd punctuation |
| 20:58 |
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| 20:58 |
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thd |
cait: At the meeting, John Attig explained that leaving punctuation entirely to automation would be difficult to accomplish in MARC 21 where the user is editing the MARC record directly because MARC 21 did not have the advantage of arranging fields in ISBD order the way UNIMARC did. |
| 21:00 |
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cait |
hm. |
| 21:00 |
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thd |
cait: John Attig told me that the idea of having the cataloguer edit MARC records directly was an historical mistake which should never have been made. |
| 21:00 |
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jcamins |
_Now_ they tell us? |
| 21:00 |
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jcamins |
;) |
| 21:01 |
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thd |
John Attig has been around long enough to know the history. |
| 21:01 |
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| 21:01 |
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thd |
almost long enough |
| 21:02 |
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thd |
John Attig said that he was all for the idea of cataloguers using an easy to use interface where they would only need to know the tasks of cataloguing not fine details of a record exchange format. |
| 21:05 |
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jcamins |
That sounds wonderful. |
| 21:05 |
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thd |
If John Attig does not see an objection, automation systems implementers could probably accomplish the task without having it rejected. |
| 21:05 |
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jcamins |
But now it's quitting time, which means I get at least an hour of MARC-free time (i.e. my commute home). :) |
| 21:06 |
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jcamins |
Good night, #koha |
| 21:06 |
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cait |
:) |
| 21:06 |
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cait |
good night jcamins |
| 21:06 |
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thd |
jcamins: MARC 21 cannot be reformed sufficiently, but your system can. |
| 21:06 |
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cait |
and i have to accept that I will not be fixing this bug today :( |
| 21:06 |
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thd |
good night jcamins |
| 21:06 |
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jcamins is now known as jcamins_a |
| 21:06 |
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cait |
bed time |
| 21:06 |
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cait |
sleep well #koha |
| 21:06 |
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| 21:07 |
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* thd |
heads to the post office. |
| 21:07 |
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thd is now known as thd-away |
| 21:12 |
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| 21:13 |
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| 21:18 |
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| 21:24 |
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chris |
back |
| 21:30 |
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* richard |
reads the meeting notes |
| 21:31 |
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chris |
was a nice short and useful meeting i thought |
| 21:31 |
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richard |
yeah |
| 21:36 |
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* richard |
thanks natlib for sending the info about MARC format to the devel list |
| 21:36 |
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chris |
heh yeah |
| 21:36 |
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chris |
random eh |
| 21:36 |
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chris |
they sent one to me as well |
| 21:37 |
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chris |
i guess the only address they had for katipo was the devel list? |
| 21:37 |
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richard |
didn't think of that |
| 21:37 |
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richard |
but better it goes to the devel list than to individuals |
| 21:37 |
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chris |
yup |
| 21:38 |
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chris |
the good news, its mostly some zebra indexing changes, framework change, and xslt change and its done (to the basic level they are talking about anyway) |
| 21:38 |
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richard |
cool |
| 21:53 |
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chris |
http://patches.workbuffer.org/awaiting_qa/ |
| 21:53 |
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chris |
first batch |
| 22:09 |
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| 23:23 |
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irma |
G'day #koha |
| 23:25 |
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irma |
Are you there Chris? |
| 23:27 |
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chris |
heya irma |
| 23:27 |
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| 23:30 |
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* wasabi |
waves from kapiti |
| 23:42 |
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jcamins_a |
Were there really no messages on the Koha mailing lists today? |
| 23:42 |
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jcamins_a |
Or is there something wrong with my e-mail? |
| 23:42 |
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jcamins_a is now known as jcamins |
| 23:43 |
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chris |
hmm i saw some |
| 23:43 |
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chris |
and one on koha-devel |
| 23:43 |
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chris |
jcamins: i count at least 5 to the main list |
| 23:44 |
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chris |
http://lists.katipo.co.nz/pipe[…]ember/thread.html |
| 23:44 |
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jcamins |
Hm. I guess either A) there's something wrong with my e-mail or B) someone downloaded all my e-mail. |
| 23:45 |
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chris |
that was me sorry |
| 23:45 |
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chris |
i read all your mail |
| 23:45 |
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chris |
:) |
| 23:45 |
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jcamins |
Heh. |
| 23:46 |
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jcamins |
Was there anything interesting? |
| 23:46 |
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chris |
i read so many peoples i cant keep it all straight ;) |
| 23:46 |
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chris |
shouldnt you be honeymooning somewhere? :) |
| 23:47 |
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jcamins |
I'm thinking there's a problem with my e-mail, since the webmail interface keeps on trying to download itself rather than display. Weird. |
| 23:47 |
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jcamins |
Shari's PhD classes started last Thursday, so no honeymoon this year. |
| 23:47 |
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jcamins |
Just homework. ;) |
| 23:47 |
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chris |
ahhh, that'd do it |
| 23:47 |
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jcamins |
Next year we'll have an actual reception and go on a honeymoon after. |
| 23:48 |
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chris |
so, what we need to do, is get kohacon in europe next year, and time your honeymoon to end as that starts :) |
| 23:49 |
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jcamins |
I like that idea! We'll be in Budapest until the very end of August. |
| 23:50 |
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chris |
ohhh |
| 23:50 |
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chris |
do we have any hungarian libraries i wonder |
| 23:50 |
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chris |
:) |
| 23:50 |
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jcamins |
So that might be a little early for Kohacon. |
| 23:50 |
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jcamins |
I don't know... I feel like CEU might use Koha, though. |
| 23:51 |
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chris |
well i figure if its northern hempishere, wont want to be end of october |
| 23:51 |
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chris |
that would be too cold |
| 23:51 |
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jcamins |
No, they use Millenium. |
| 23:51 |
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jcamins |
Good point. |
| 23:51 |
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chris |
maybe in the next month or so ill mail the list saying, now kohacon10 is nearly here, its time for people to start volunteering to organise/host kohacon11 |
| 23:53 |
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jcamins |
We should have it in Helsinki... or Tallinn! then I can make a research trip across to Saint Petersburg afterwards. :) |
| 23:54 |
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chris |
there ya go |
| 23:54 |
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chris |
norway isnt far |
| 23:54 |
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chris |
and we definitely have norwegian libraries :) |
| 23:54 |
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chris |
and a norwegian support company |
| 23:54 |
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chris |
not sure about any in finland yet |
| 23:54 |
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jcamins |
Well, Norway sounds pretty great. |
| 23:57 |
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