IRC log for #koha, 2010-08-23

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:24 robin chris: looks like the fix to zebra will be getting into debian, I just tested it and it seems to work.
00:24 chris sweet :)
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00:35 reva Hi jcamins: Have another two questions. What is the maximum number of characters allowed for the variable fields (say for example, in 500 $a). Or is it limitless?
00:40 reva guess I got an answer googling: it is 1230 in a variable field.
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01:01 jcamins reva: I'm just about to leave, but you also need to be careful that the records don't exceed a total of 9999 characters.
01:03 jcamins So you have to be careful with a serials which have a lot of items.
01:03 jcamins Good night, #koha.
01:03 jcamins is now known as jcamins_a
01:05 reva Thanks jcamins: good night!
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02:43 wizzyrea_ *yawn*
02:44 robin yeah, mondays are a bit like that.
02:44 wizzyrea_ man I wish I were through my monday.
02:44 chris isnt it like 10pm sunday?
02:44 wizzyrea_ I wish it were over and it hasn't even started yet >.<
02:45 wizzyrea_ yep
02:46 wizzyrea_ oh i meant to ask
02:46 wizzyrea_ the pubdate sort for the opac sorts on the 260$c? Right?
02:48 chris think so, would have to check the bib1.att thingy to be sure
02:48 wizzyrea_ oh I can look tomorrow
02:48 wizzyrea_ since I now know where to look
02:48 chris well one of those zebra files :)
02:48 wizzyrea_ ugh. catalogers
02:49 wizzyrea_ this $c makes me cry: _c[2010], p2009.
02:49 chris hehe
02:49 wizzyrea_ i'm sure it's perfectly correct
02:49 chris well its not all their fault, the spec allows that
02:49 wizzyrea_ but it really does confuse the results
02:49 wizzyrea_ at least, it confuses how the results *look*
02:49 chris yes, the M in MARC is not for Machine, its for Mental
02:50 wizzyrea_ as in "you must be mental to try and use this"
02:50 chris or you must be mental to expect a machine to be able to use this
02:51 wizzyrea_ that too
02:53 larsw what has been the Koha community's experience with CGI IRC sites that allow anyone with a browser come to #koha to talk?
02:53 wizzyrea_ um, usually pretty good. suggests mibbit, people seem to get along with it ok
02:54 wizzyrea_ I think the worst thing about it is people refusing to give themselves a nick
02:55 larsw someone's just suggested that Debian set up something, and since #koha is the only place where I've seen people use them, I thought I'd ask here about experiences
02:56 wizzyrea_ I think overall it's a positive service to provide on a project website
02:57 wizzyrea_ because your least sophisticated users probably aren't going to have a client, and you don't want that to be their barrier to entry
02:58 wizzyrea_ at least, that's my opinion
02:58 wizzyrea_ the only caveat with mibbit is that you can't link to freenode rooms.
02:58 larsw have there been any other problems apart from name/nicklessness?
02:59 wizzyrea_ I can't think of any, maybe someone else can
02:59 chris every so often you get some trolls
02:59 richard i think the only problems have been with kids getting into the channel via the cgi app on
02:59 chris yeah
03:00 wizzyrea_ that was more of a problem before we had ops
03:01 larsw one gets trolls in any case
03:03 chris tis true
03:04 wizzyrea_ ok, i'm trying to be non-librarian-y
03:04 wizzyrea_ I want to say "select the type of material you would like to know about" but I think that "material" is a librarian word
03:04 wizzyrea_ item type, same thing
03:05 chris yeah
03:05 wizzyrea_ select the type of stuff you are looking for?
03:05 wizzyrea_ stuff seems to casual
03:05 larsw "hey, you there, what are you interested in? tell me now! I want to know!"
03:05 wizzyrea_ :D
03:06 wizzyrea_ Select the category you are interested in?
03:06 wizzyrea_ that seems somewhat less librarian-y
03:06 wizzyrea_ maybe I don't even have to say it
03:06 wizzyrea_ that would be neat
03:07 larsw "Select what you're interested in"?
03:07 wizzyrea_ Are you looking for the newest stuff in the NExpress Collection? Clicking any category will bring up a list of the newest stuff in our collection. Enjoy!
03:08 chris newest stuff in that category ?
03:08 wizzyrea_ i'm a g-d english major and i'm totally flummoxed by this
03:08 robin "What kind of item are you looking for?"
03:09 chris "Pick a category yo!"
03:09 wizzyrea_ We've got shizzle you might like, pick a type, yo.
03:09 chris heh
03:09 chris fo rizzle
03:09 * wizzyrea_ giggles
03:10 robin
03:10 wizzyrea_ rofl
03:10 wizzyrea_ I love
03:10 * wizzyrea_ just snorted
03:10 larsw[…]/08/msg00268.html (what I wrote about web irc)
03:12 chris larsw:;a=summary
03:12 wizzyrea_ larsw++
03:12 larsw chris, that's even packaged in Debian, it seems
03:13 chris yup
03:13 larsw but I'll let those in Debian who actually want to work on this figure that out ;)I
03:13 chris :)
03:13 wizzyrea_ hehe
03:13 * larsw goes look for book stores that sell DRM-free e-books instead
03:13 robin <-- larsw
03:14 larsw just got there :)
03:14 larsw a friend gave me this:
03:14 larsw[…]shers_without_DRM
03:14 robin actually, I was reading on of their collections, and part way through it had an obit to Jim Baen that focussed on his strong anti-DRM stance.
03:14 wizzyrea_ oh this is totally one of my peeves re: libraries
03:14 larsw next I need someone to tell me what I want to buy ;)
03:15 wizzyrea_ everybody knows that libraries should have ebooks
03:15 wizzyrea_ but nobody knows how to implement it because of the DRM
03:16 wizzyrea_ and the most popular devices don't always support non-drm content.
03:16 wizzyrea_ so that leaves the libraries in the position of basically becoming free support hubs for multinational corporations
03:16 wizzyrea_ which I think is bogus. </rant>
03:17 larsw wizzyrea, indeed
03:17 robin really? I thought everything (except locked-in devices like Kindle) did non-DRMed files.
03:17 robin the stupid Baen free books have meant that I need to buy the remainder of a couple of series from them. First hit is free, and all that :)
03:17 wizzyrea_ the kindle, sony ereader, and I think the nook don't do non-drm (I think)
03:18 wizzyrea_ there are non-drm readers for iphone
03:18 wizzyrea_ and android, presumably
03:18 robin yeah, I had one on android.
03:18 robin But I can't read on that.
03:19 wizzyrea_ < has read most of doctorow's stuff on her iPhone (shh. I recognize the relative hypocrisy of my above rant given my choice of mobile device, but I can't afford to replace it atm, and I like it <ashamed>)
03:19 larsw I've read most of doctorow's stuff on my n900 :)
03:20 robin The small glowing screens get a bit much for my eyes quite quickly.
03:20 * robin <3's his Kobo reader :)
03:20 wizzyrea_ I'm really excited for the kobo US release
03:20 wizzyrea_ yea, I have to turn the brightness way way way down
03:21 wizzyrea_ but I do most of my reading at night while everybody is asleep, so not needing an additional light is nice :P
03:21 larsw I played with the kobo at a Wellington bookstore again (this time they had a working demo device) -- I'm still not convinced i like e-ink screens; I like that my phone's screen is illuminated
03:21 larsw but that's the point, sort of -- one should not have to be tied to a specific kind of device for reading books
03:21 robin I turn the light on.
03:21 robin You can also attach booklights to it
03:22 wizzyrea_ I think I got it: "We're adding things to NExpress every day. Pick your favorite category and see what's new!"
03:22 chris that works
03:22 larsw ooh! a new bujold, and in the vorkosigan series no less
03:22 larsw (sorry, totally off-topic)
03:23 robin I'm currently getting through the 16xx series at the moment. But I have the first two of the 'dragon tattoo' books in dead-tree format that I need to get into, too.
03:25 wizzyrea_ I just started the Hunger Games
03:25 wizzyrea_ which is really really good so far.
03:27 robin hmm, looks interesting
03:27 wizzyrea_ I think it's technically a YA title
03:27 robin according to wikipedia, it is
03:28 wizzyrea_ doesn't really read like one though. YA stuff has gotten really good lately, imo
03:29 robin I don't frequent libraries enough to keep up on it. I'm too prone to owing late fees, so I buy, which means I go for the safety of what I know.
03:29 robin If only the local library would use Koha, I could put something in so I would never owe fees....;)
03:29 wizzyrea_ hehe!
03:30 wizzyrea_ a great number of my libraries don't do fines
03:30 chris well the advance notices in koha help with that actually
03:30 larsw robin, heh, I stopped using libraries in 1994 since it was cheaper for me to buy books than pay late fees
03:31 robin chris: yeah. I don't think the welly library does them. At least, my flatmate always ends up owing.
03:31 robin larsw: yeah. And now ebooks are cheap...
03:31 chris naw, im not sure many systems apart from koha have that
03:31 wizzyrea_ so if the library didn't charge fees, you would use it more?
03:32 robin possibly, yeah.
03:32 robin well
03:32 robin fees I'm OK with.
03:32 larsw wizzyrea, if I kept staying in the same hemisphere as the library, I might
03:32 chris heh
03:32 wizzyrea_ hehe
03:32 robin But my natural laziness combined with fines never ends well
03:32 robin although, given I work so close to the library, I should reevaluate that.
03:33 wizzyrea_ I'm lucky to um, yea, have an account that never gets fined.
03:33 robin but, for now I have a backlog of my own owned books to get through.
03:33 larsw meh, using unfamiliar web sites to try to choose a book from authors I've never heard of is hard
03:33 wizzyrea_ but... heh
03:33 chris the reason i dont use welly library is
03:33 wizzyrea_ because of the way our consortium works
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03:33 wizzyrea_ I can order a book
03:33 chris their catalogue software sux
03:33 wizzyrea_ and it shows up on my desk at work >.>
03:33 chris and i cant find anything on it
03:33 chris thats what 400k a year gets ya
03:33 wizzyrea_ sirsi?
03:33 chris TLC
03:33 wizzyrea_ ah, even better.
03:34 wizzyrea_ I hated how in sirsi you could never bookmark a search
03:34 chris
03:34 wizzyrea_ because it all used sessions
03:34 chris its so good, you have buy another piece of proprietary software
03:34 chris to stick over the top
03:35 chris[…]tBasicTerms+11418  <-- out of the box
03:35 wizzyrea_ UGH aquabrowser
03:35 chris yeah
03:35 chris non pastable urls either
03:35 wizzyrea_ what kind of a name is "aquabrowser"
03:35 larsw 400k/year sounds like it would buy a lot of support for Koha...
03:35 chris whats that bout
03:35 larsw support + custom development
03:35 chris considering version 1 costs $60k
03:36 chris yep :)
03:36 chris s/costs/cost/
03:36 wizzyrea_ um, yea, it would buy a lot of koha.
03:36 chris so yeah, i cant find any albums by 'the the'
03:36 chris in either of their interfaces
03:37 chris and i know they have some
03:37 wizzyrea_ you can in koha?
03:37 chris yeah we dont do stop words
03:37 robin it uses frames, which makes it tricky to bookmark too.
03:37 chris COS THEY ARE STUPID!
03:37 wizzyrea_ lol tell us how you really feel
03:37 chris i mean, use them for sorting by all means
03:37 chris but silently dropping them from your search .. is just silly
03:38 larsw ugh... baen advertises an ebook by vinge, and then when I try to buy it, it is not currently available... meh, publishing industry is a pain
03:38 wizzyrea_ meh indeed.
03:38 robin larsw: keep in mind that they have a 'pre-release' scheme, so it may be part of that
03:38 robin via webscriptions
03:38 larsw robin, pre-release? for a four-year-old book?
03:39 robin ah, then no
03:39 robin this is, you get books in quarters or so as it's being proofed.
03:40 larsw actually, I don't hate the publishing industry, I just wish they'd not keep shooting themselves in the foot
03:41 larsw I like reading e-books (less to carry when moving...), but it's too hard to buy them, unless I give in to proprietary stuff like the kindle or iphone/ipad
03:41 larsw but I won't, so I suffer
03:41 robin It's easier to buy them if they're DRM free :)
03:42 robin I see people having all kinds of hassles with the Adobe DRM manager thing
03:42 robin and that presumes they're on a platform it supports.
03:42 robin (which I'm not)
03:43 larsw for physical books, I'm spoiled by Amazon, which makes things really easy for me as a customer; however, for e-books they have convinced me I'm not welcome
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03:45 larsw and now when I find a book I want and it is available, the store wants me to enter irrelevant personal information, such as phone numbers
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06:56 robin larsw: how do you feel about writing us an open source version of MARCEdit before you head off? ;)
06:58 larsw robin, I don't think I have time for that anymore (we're heading for the mountains tomorrow...), but if you can find someone to pay me, I'll be happy to discuss that in two weeks, when I'm in Edinburgh
06:58 robin I make no promises :) I just have the feeling that hacking Perl scripts to munge MARC into funny shapes is going to get old fast.
07:01 larsw cool :)
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07:05 kf morning #koha
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07:12 kf hi hdl and francharb
07:12 francharb hello kf
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07:14 kf morning magnus
07:15 hdl hi kf
07:15 magnus hiya kf, hdl et al
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07:19 greenmang @wunder mumbai
07:19 munin greenmang: The current temperature in Mumbai, India is 30.0�C (12:40 PM IST on August 23, 2010). Conditions: Haze. Humidity: 74%. Dew Point: 25.0�C. Pressure: 29.74 in 1007 hPa (Steady).
07:19 greenmang !thanks
07:20 magnus @wunder bodo
07:20 munin magnus: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 12.0�C (9:20 AM CEST on August 23, 2010). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 88%. Dew Point: 10.0�C. Pressure: 29.44 in 997 hPa (Steady).
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07:25 kf @wunder Konstanz
07:25 munin kf: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 20.4�C (9:35 AM CEST on August 23, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 89%. Dew Point: 19.0�C. Pressure: 29.83 in 1010.0 hPa (Steady).
07:27 kf hm, reveived old koha mails in the last minutes
07:27 kf from last week or older
07:32 magnus me too
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07:39 chris hello europe
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07:49 magnus hello new zeeeeland!
07:52 kf hi chris :)
07:54 * chris sends his standard send a patch email
07:54 chris it seems i do it at least 3 times a week :)
07:56 kf I hope they write an RFC :)
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07:56 kf I am curious (as always)
07:58 chris im sure they will
07:58 chris osslabs are very organised
08:03 chris robin & larsw: i just wish we could convince the guy who writes it, to release it under a free software license
08:04 chris problem is, its written in c#, so to run it on linux it needs mono
08:04 chris ptfs released another 'freeware' but not free software marc utility suite
08:04 chris which is missing the point imho
08:05 chris the only reason i could think of to do that, would be ego
08:06 chris 'im the smartest person in the world, no one could possibly fix any of my bugs except me'
08:06 chris </rant>
08:07 kf you talking about marcedit?
08:07 chris yep
08:07 chris 19:06 < robin> larsw: how do you feel about writing us an open source version of MARCEdit before you head off? ;)
08:07 kf ah
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08:49 jcamins_a @later tell wizzyrea the whole pubdate/copydate indexing issue is very confusing.
08:49 munin jcamins_a: The operation succeeded.
08:50 Amit heya kf
08:51 kf hi Amit
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09:04 DaGentooB ok can someone explain the marcrecord and biblio hashes to me?
09:05 DaGentooB in
09:05 DaGentooB this for loop goes around through 213 search results and when i=21 it can't find biblio numbers for the biblio hash
09:06 DaGentooB I really need to get this working
09:10 chris what version of koha
09:11 DaGentooB
09:11 chris ill look
09:11 DaGentooB ok
09:11 chris but ive never looked at the labels stuff
09:12 chris for those type of questions the koha-devel list is a better place than here, lots more people will see it
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09:12 DaGentooB well I put this line in warn sprintf('biblionumber = %s biblio = %s marcrecord = %s i = %s hits = %s', $biblio->{'biblionumber'}, $biblio , $marcrecord, $i , $hits);
09:13 DaGentooB right after         my $biblio = TransformMarcToKoha( C4::Context->dbh, $marcrecord, '' );
09:13 DaGentooB and it returns biblionumber =  biblio = HASH(0x9ad1614) marcrecord = MARC::Record=HASH(0x9a4cf6c) i = 182 hits = 213
09:13 DaGentooB on one of them
09:14 DaGentooB biblionumber is not making it through
09:15 chris its probably better to do
09:16 chris use Data::Dumper;
09:16 chris warn Dumper $biblio;
09:16 chris then you can see whats actually in the hash
09:17 DaGentooB this is where the guy that knows C gets in trouble in perl
09:17 DaGentooB I will try and let you know
09:17 chris you could dump the marcrecord too
09:23 DaGentooB after result 21 they all loook like this
09:23 DaGentooB [Mon Aug 23 11:43:49 2010] [error] [client] [Mon Aug 23 11:43:49 2010] $VAR1 = {};, referer: http://library:8080/cgi-bin/ko[…]3&amp;type=labels [Mon Aug 23 11:43:49 2010] [error] [client] [Mon Aug 23 11:43:49 2010] $VAR1 = bless( {, referer: http://library:8080/cgi-bin/ko[…]batch_id=3&amp;ty
09:26 chris there we go
09:27 chris that explains why no biblionumber, biblio is an empty hash
09:27 chris was there more for the $record ?
09:28 DaGentooB that was all it showed
09:29 chris hmm
09:29 DaGentooB I left my line in so I just copied everything from one result to the next
09:29 chris it must have got truncated
09:29 chris in the log
09:29 DaGentooB I am going to do it again to be sure
09:30 DaGentooB well the first 20 are HUGE
09:30 chris yup
09:31 chris so if the record is empty, then the biblio will in turn be empty
09:32 DaGentooB ok.... so why does it return #21 empty every time I search anything?
09:32 chris not sure, it doesnt for me
09:33 DaGentooB hmmm what version are you using?
09:33 chris master
09:33 chris so the same as you
09:34 chris maybe dump marcresults->[$i]
09:34 DaGentooB also do you have a list of the perl modules you have installed?
09:34 chris nope
09:34 chris but everything koha needs is installed
09:38 DaGentooB [Mon Aug 23 12:00:10 2010] [error] [client] [Mon Aug 23 12:00:10 2010] $VAR1 = '842';, referer: http://library:8080/cgi-bin/ko[…]3&amp;type=labels
09:38 DaGentooB from 21 on down
09:39 chris thats for marcresults->[$i] ?
09:39 DaGentooB yeah
09:40 chris so you get 20 records, then 842 .. again an again?
09:40 chris have you tried a full zebra reindex?
09:40 DaGentooB no
09:40 DaGentooB 842
09:40 DaGentooB 840
09:40 DaGentooB 84
09:40 DaGentooB 839
09:40 DaGentooB 837
09:40 DaGentooB 835
09:40 kf ?
09:41 DaGentooB the #VAR11 =
09:41 DaGentooB the number changes every time
09:41 DaGentooB I just copied one
09:41 DaGentooB I am using the nozebra
09:42 DaGentooB + normal search results work GREAT
09:42 chris thats probably the problem then
09:42 DaGentooB nozebra?
09:42 chris yeah
09:42 DaGentooB oh wow
09:42 DaGentooB I was hoping to avoid Zebra
09:42 DaGentooB is there a transition guide somewhere?
09:42 chris well nozebra has lots of issues, and youve just found one :)
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09:43 DaGentooB k
09:44 DaGentooB is there any guide on where to get started on that?
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09:45 DaGentooB about Perl Modules says Graphics::Magick need updated.... that wouldn't cause this right?
09:46 DaGentooB I tried to update it but Koha doesn't see  the new one
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09:47 chris no
09:47 chris this is the search returning bad results
09:48 DaGentooB k
09:48 DaGentooB does your version print the label boarders on the PDF?
09:48 chris havent trid
09:48 DaGentooB k
09:48 chris i just tried the search now
09:48 DaGentooB ajd
09:48 DaGentooB ahd
09:48 chris first time ive ever looked at the labels stuff
09:48 DaGentooB ok I can type
09:48 DaGentooB and?
09:49 DaGentooB it is nice if you want to have a label on everything
09:50 chris yeah the search works fine with zebra
09:50 DaGentooB k
09:50 DaGentooB any advice on how to set it up?
09:51 chris take a look at the INSTALL.debian file
09:51 chris starting at around line 170
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09:52 chris once you have got zebrasrv running, and have the index built, then switch the syspref
09:52 DaGentooB ok thanks
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10:26 kf lunch time, bbl
10:30 chris mmmm lunch
10:30 chris that must mean its nearly bed time for me
11:08 kf :)
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11:37 kf hi jwagner
11:37 kf have you already chosen your desk to hide under for today? ;)
11:39 jwagner kf, hi, I haven't come out from last week yet!
11:40 kf oh, if you want a change I can invite you over :)
11:40 jwagner At least things should ease up for a while now (she hopes).  Four sites going live in six weeks was a bit much.....
11:40 kf today is one of these typical mondasys...
11:40 * jwagner is packing my bags!
11:41 kf but all ok now?
11:43 jwagner At least they're all up and running, and now it's just the post-golive tweaks and panics....
11:45 kf ah
11:45 kf I found out today, that one of our libraries was still sending emails with our address... and no one ever noticed
11:46 kf post-golive problems ;)
11:46 jwagner Yep.  They happen....  Not that anyone WE know ever panics or anything.....
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11:49 kf hi druthb :)
11:49 druthb hi! :)
11:50 mib_xxkay Hey all. ......any news on a 3.2 release yet??
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12:03 magnus mib_xxkay: don't think so, not a set date anyway
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13:06 jcamins_a Good morning, #koha
13:06 jcamins_a is now known as jcamins
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13:15 Danke i'm setting up a koha install for a small community center, they've mostly got children's toys. i really need to simplify the program as much as possible... should i make a new marc record and basically delete almost everything?
13:15 Danke marc framework sorry
13:15 jcamins Danke: I'd suggest hiding everything.
13:15 jcamins In case you later decide that you need some of the fields that you hid.
13:16 Danke how do i do that? i've pretty much just finished installing koha, i don't know my way around it myself
13:16 Danke ah, that sounds like a good move
13:16 jcamins There are instructions in the manual... let me find them.
13:17 Danke ah, brilliant. is there a pdf or anything for the manual?
13:17 jcamins[…]?ch=x3727#AEN3730
13:17 jcamins search for "hidden" on that page.
13:18 jcamins Actually, it's worth it to just read the entire page, but the part you want is under "hidden."
13:18 Danke okay, thank you very much. i'll read through now
13:19 Danke i should probably go through the whole thing, i know my way around linux... but i know next to nothing about running libraries! haha
13:19 jcamins In that case you should definitely read the entire manual.
13:19 jcamins I'd recommend twice.
13:19 jcamins Or three times, like I did. ;)
13:20 Danke :) i've got till wednesday before they start cataloging everything on paper. should be fine then!
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13:22 Danke to move an install to a new machine can i basically copy the mysql databases?
13:23 jcamins I don't know, but you can use mysqldump and then restore everything onto the new computer.
13:23 Danke brilliant, thank you :)
13:25 mib_xxkay I am getting this email for overdues "These messages were not sent directly to the patrons." does anyone know where to start t/shooting? v3.0.6
13:25 jcamins You're welcome.
13:25 mib_xxkay sorry v3.0.5
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13:26 jcamins mib_xxkay: I don't know anything about 3.0.x or overdues, but perhaps someone else can help.
13:28 mib_xxkay thanks.......hope so!
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13:37 tcohen hi, if  a preference is not defined, what does the calling script receive? empty? null?
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13:47 druthb should be NULL, tcohen.
13:48 tcohen druthb: thanks
13:49 druthb you betcha.
13:49 * druthb waves to schuster
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14:05 jwagner My brain has frozen -- need some help on a holds problem.  Multiple branches, they allow holds between branches.  Placing holds works on the test server but doesn't on production (claiming things are unavailable or need override).  Where should I be looking for policy differences?
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14:05 wizzyrea_ default rules?
14:06 jwagner That's where I'm looking, but in theory what's in place should work.
14:06 * jwagner isn't sure about theory sometimes.
14:06 jwagner I think all the sysprefs are set the same.
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14:08 schuster circ and fine rules by branch if they vary?
14:08 schuster have to shutdown and move my desk back in a bit.
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14:27 kf jwagner: which error message do you get?
14:33 jwagner No error -- the hold just doesn't place.
14:34 jwagner Am finding some things in the error log to wonder about, though.
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14:59 jwagner Found it -- error in this site's table structure.
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15:46 mib_xxkay Anyone around who might know why some overdue emails return this message----> "These messages were not sent directly to the patrons."
15:47 schuster no email in the borrower record?
15:47 mib_xxkay No, the address is there and valid!
15:49 wizzyrea_ is it possible that you have email addresses in the non-primary email fields?
15:49 wizzyrea_ because only the home email address sends notices
15:49 mib_xxkay interesting! Let me take a look
15:50 wizzyrea_ the rest are just there for staff reference
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15:51 mib_xxkay @wizzyrea - Thanks for that, the email is set to "work" and nothing in "home". That must be the problem as the other patrons all have "home" addresses. Thanks!!
15:51 munin mib_xxkay: Error: "wizzyrea" is not a valid command.
15:53 wizzyrea_ sure thing mib_xxkay
15:53 wizzyrea_ (we ran up against that one too, can you tell? ;))
15:53 jcamins Koha has spoiled me to other ILSes.
15:53 wizzyrea_ we even went so far as to add to the project a label to each field that generates notices that it does so
15:54 jcamins I am currently looking at a catalog which shows only author, title, and location.
15:58 wizzyrea_ :/
16:05 kf jcamins: I am spoiled to
16:05 jwagner We did a patch a while back so that the notices obey the AutoEmailPrimaryAddress syspref -- that should be in head now, I think.
16:05 kf can't stand catalogs where you can't bookmark every page
16:06 sekjal jwagner: yes, I recall that got folded in
16:07 kf to = too...
16:07 kf evil mondays...
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16:23 kf bye :)
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16:43 reva Hi again, good morning. I have a question: I am using DDC for some parts of our collection and ICS for Documentary Standards for other parts of our collection. Would defining 852 be the thing to do? and then choose Z (other classification scheme) for my default?
16:43 jcamins reva: I would recommend using items.
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16:44 reva I am not following? I need to tell the item record which tag to use to get the call number, correct?
16:45 jcamins Only if you want to change from the default settings (952). At least, so far as I know.
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16:47 reva Ok, so let us say, I leave 092ab (meant for local DDC nuber) in the Marc structure subfield edit. It works fine. But if I want to use ICS scheme for parts of the collection, and if I choose Z as my defaut, what happens? I am not quite sure how it will behave if you mix schemes.
16:48 jcamins reva: Oh, I see what you're asking about.
16:48 jcamins I enter call numbers directly into the item records.
16:49 jcamins We have very silly call numbers.
16:50 reva jcamins: ok, that is one possiblity, entering directly into the item record. The do I leave the provided defaults alone? silly how?
16:51 jcamins We don't have any classification system. Just Cutter numbers to put books in order.
16:51 jcamins We just left the default settings, and only put holdings information into items.
16:51 jcamins Well, usually.
16:52 jcamins But you don't have 165k records with problematic holdings data, so perhaps someone else could suggest a better way to do things.
16:52 reva jcamins: we have class numbers for our non- "documentary standard"s material. Like metrology in the 610s and books on ISO9000 (quality) would be in 389 (social services!)
16:54 jcamins Hm.
16:54 reva jcamins: fortunately not that many records. May be about 2000 total. maybe I am calling the fire-brigade for a kitchen fire??
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16:55 owen Hi all
16:55 * owen straggles in
16:55 hdl hi owen
16:55 reva Ok, I will also do the same thing, I mean put it in the item record, instead of in the bib-record.
16:55 wizzyrea_ hey owen
16:56 wizzyrea_ good morning. Rough weekend?
16:56 owen Oh you know me, up all night drinkin' and such.
16:56 owen No, actually I was with my daughter who was without entertainment or supervision for the day
16:57 wizzyrea_ ooh
16:57 cait hi all
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17:03 reva jcamins: I thought maybe I could define 852bhi (sub-location, classification, item) in the ItemCallNumber found under Administration->Global System Preferences->Cataloging and the Defaut Classification Source (found under the same path) to Z instead of DDC.
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17:06 reva Of course, then I would go to the 852 under MARC structure and un-hide the chosen subfield so we can input the call number. I will try it out in the liblime demo and see what it does.
17:07 wizzyrea_ well, the liblime demo isn't koha
17:07 wizzyrea_
17:07 wizzyrea_ u: bywater, p: bywater
17:08 wizzyrea_ is pretty close to current head
17:08 reva wizzyrea: I know; but isn't bywater also a vendor version, so will be substantially different from the community supported version?
17:08 wizzyrea_ nope
17:08 wizzyrea_ that demo is the current head of the communty version
17:08 wizzyrea_ they are hosting the mainline demo for the project
17:09 reva wizzyrea: ok, stand corrected.:)
17:09 sekjal reva: it's the community's demo, we're just hosting it (at least that's how I think of it)
17:09 wizzyrea_ ^^
17:09 reva wizzyrea, come to recall, I do get responses from bywater, which I have never from liblime!
17:10 wizzyrea_ they are awfully busy over at LL
17:10 reva any takers for the 852bhi for my mixed scheme call number needs?
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17:11 reva wizzyrea, you are surely saying that with sarcasm, I think.
17:12 wizzyrea_ nope, utter sincerity
17:12 reva ok, stand corrected again.
17:13 sekjal we're really busy over here at ByWater, too.  I'm never bored in this job
17:13 reva ok I will try my 852bhi cook up in bywater demo now.
17:13 jwagner reva, I know one of our people was in touch with you because he asked me some questions.  Haven't you heard back from him?
17:14 reva no, he kept answering the question that was already answered by Nicole (I forget the last name). It was as if he could only see a part of my email:(. I think it was Brendan.
17:15 jwagner No Brendan is Bywater.  John Rose from PTFS/Liblime was in touch.
17:17 reva jwagner: I thought you are asking regarding Bywater.
17:18 reva Never heard of John Rose. The canned answer I got had the sing off Susan someone.
17:18 jwagner Sorry, am on phone call -- back in a bit
17:18 paul_p Susan Buchanan
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17:33 jwagner Am back, sorry about that
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17:52 owen slef around by any chance?
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18:30 rhcl any coders working on suspended holds?
18:33 sekjal PTFS's Harley has some code towards that, on branch bug3488.
18:34 rhcl hummm
18:37 sekjal looks like it's all in a single commit, so it may be cherry-pickable
18:37 sekjal does a lot of changes to the database, though
18:37 sekjal adds a whole new table for suspended reserves, and adds a reservenumber field to reserves
18:38 rhcl strange, I wouldn't intuitively think that should be required
18:38 rhcl maybe better to have somebody else try a fresh approach?
18:38 sekjal I would think it to be more of a 'status' marker, rather than a new table, but perhaps it's a speed decision
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18:39 sekjal I've done a lot of thinking about how to improve holds
18:39 sekjal putting a primary key field on the table was my first step
18:39 rhcl suspended holds is important to us
18:40 sekjal so the Harley code may be a good starting place
18:40 wizzyrea sekjal. Please. Please. Do. That.
18:40 wizzyrea wouldn't that begin to address the simultaneous holds issue?
18:40 sekjal yes
18:41 wizzyrea made of win. Win all over the place.
18:41 owen Yeah, leaving a primary key out of reserves is a long-standing omission
18:41 sekjal there would need to be some duplicate checking on the submission of the form
18:42 sekjal a subroutine would take care of that
18:42 wizzyrea that alone would fix a lot of stuff
18:42 wizzyrea owen, are you still a ways back on your production install?
18:42 wizzyrea or are you close to head?
18:42 owen We're a little ways back
18:42 * wizzyrea giggles a little
18:43 owen
18:43 chris sekjal: you can still race condition, if the checking is in the code
18:43 owen To ByWater's credit, they've asked us a couple of times if we're ready for an update :)
18:44 * owen is in "ain't broke" mode at the moment
18:44 chris putting the check and the insert inside a transaction at db level
18:44 * wizzyrea can't talk about that.
18:44 chris might be the way to go
18:45 sekjal chris: yeah!
18:45 chris sekjal: wasabi has been doing some holds work too
18:45 chris so you might want to touch base with him
18:46 sekjal chris: yes
18:46 sekjal definitely
18:46 chris fwiw i think a status column vs a new table is the win
18:46 chris index that column, it will be faster than a join
18:48 sekjal I'd like to see all the developers working on holds get together and talk about a unified specification
18:48 sekjal so we're all working towards the same end
18:48 sekjal and solving our problems in consistent ways
18:49 cfouts I think a reserves state-machine diagram would be a nice feature
18:53 reva just wanted tell jwagner:, I heard from a John Rose. But a good answer deserved another question. about some subfields not displaying though I have un-hid them and I can edit them. This is further puzzles on call number tags and mixed classification schemes.
18:55 reva and jcamins: remember, i was asking about the Print Constants (such as Contents, Partial Contents, etc. in 505) not displaying. They do in the OPAC, only not in the staff side. May be that is normal behavior for all ILS.
18:56 jcamins reva: sorry, I should have asked you that first.
18:56 reva it is not you, I always forget to check OPAC side.
19:00 cait good night all
19:01 jcamins reva: I (and I think many others) never worry about what the staff interface looks like: my staff understand MARC.
19:01 rhcl night night cait
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19:03 wizzyrea we worry very much about how the staff interface looks :P
19:04 reva I should make a pracitce of looking at both sides as I am training people for an abbreviated level cataloging. And I think I "see" oddities where it does not exist.:(
19:04 cait kf: we too - our librarians know nothing about marc
19:04 jwagner Sorry, I've been off working on something, did you have a question for me?
19:04 cait hmm I am really tired... speaking to myself..
19:05 cait ok, really leaving now :)
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19:06 jcamins wizzyrea: I think my statement must have been correct, though, because the staff interface had links to the OPAC for how long?
19:06 reva Yes, or for John Rose anyway. Ok, for example, when I set 092ab2 as my look-up field for local call number (I have un-hid all the three sub-fields and I can input values in them) but the edition sub-field ($2) does not show up. I have to manually enter it again in the item record for it to show. Am I missing a step?
19:07 wizzyrea can't be that long, because xslt detail hasn't been in that long.
19:08 reva that last was for jwagner: who I think was speaking for liblime, or am I tired?
19:08 wizzyrea yup, she would have been speaking for LL
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19:08 jwagner reva, I am, but I don't understand what you're asking.  Are you talking about the MARC record call number field not displaying, or the item record?
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19:14 reva In my example: i defined 852bhi (sub-location, class number, item number) as my local call number look-up fields. And in 942 I chose "Other/generic Classification Scheme" from the drop-down list. I unhid all the sub-fields (bhi) in the 852 tag by going into MARC structure sub-field edit. I can edit all of the sub-fields when creating the record, but $i sub-field does not display.  look at ISSN: 1940-2988 in Koha Express OPAC in Norm
19:15 * chris goes to catch his bus
19:16 reva now, from jcamins, I know that I can just put in the call number in the item record, and not worry with it in the bib-record. But I experimented.
19:19 jwagner reva, sorry, I have no experience with anyone trying to use the 852 for call number.  In general, the itemcallnumber syspref tells the system to use that field (e.g., 092) if it's present in the MARC record to create the item record's call number.
19:20 jwagner If the field is not in the MARC record, the item record creation can't find it and thus doesn't create a default call number
19:21 reva jwagner: that is strange. Please see: Global System Preference -> Itemcallnumber; it tells you that you can defind 852 for your local call number in the Expalnation column.!!
19:21 wajasu started a git clone last 14hrs ago from git:// kohaclone and its only 22% done.  Is that 4KiB/s rate normal?
19:21 jwagner Changing the display settings in the framework only controls the bib record edit screen.  The title display screen is based off a hardcoded template (or XSLT if you're using that)
19:21 reva that was supposed to be define, not defind
19:21 jwagner reva, you probably can.  I'm just saying that I have no experience with doing it that way.
19:22 sekjal wajasu: no, that's way to slow.  we'll take a look
19:22 jwagner If you're using it, does the 852 exist before you try creating the item?
19:22 reva well, even when I defined 092 for local Dewey, the edition sub-field ($2) will never display. Though I could input values when creating and editing.
19:23 jwagner Then the underlying template/script is probably not set up to display that subfield.
19:23 reva So I am saying it is not just 852 that exhibits this quirk, even 092 did. I was giving you my latest input so that you can see the record I just created.
19:24 jwagner What's the OPAC URL for the record?
19:25 reva No jwagner. I had to explicitly go into MARC structure sub-filed edit and un-hide the sub-fields I wanted to use (both for 852 and 092 which I experimented with a while back)
19:26 reva jwagner: the url: http://koha-community-demo.lib[…]?biblionumber=502 (that is the MARC view, but you can click on the Normal tab for that view.)
19:26 owen Boy do I hate the "koha-community" part of that URL. As if the waters weren't muddy enough
19:27 owen I think Liblime must mean "koha" whereas their other demos are "not-koha"
19:27 reva Iowen: though I know hazily about the break-up, you sound like a bitter spouse:).
19:28 owen Indeed reva, and I'm tired of PTFS/LL profiting off the confusion of those seeking Koha and finding LL's products
19:29 reva owen::):0
19:29 jcamins reva: by the way, why _are_ you using LibLime's demo? As I understand it, unless you're hiring them to manage your system, the system that you're running will work differently.
19:32 jcamins Or do you actually have an installation of LibLime's branded Koha? (in which case of course you should be using the same version)
19:33 reva I understand jcamins:. I wanted to see how it behaved before I messed with my set-up. ( Mine is a VirtualBox LiveCD install.)
19:33 reva mine is the community (the bona-fide community, I mean) open-source one.
19:34 jwagner reva, your problem seems to be that it is not using the subfield i to build the item call number?
19:36 reva correct, jwagner: i.e., in the case of 852 which I experimented with today; in the 092 that I tested sometime back, it was the $2 (the edition).
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19:40 jwagner I would say try it on your own system then.  If it doesn't work there, open a bug report.  To the best of my knowledge, we haven't done any work in that area, so it's likely to be a Koha problem from way back.
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19:41 wizzyrea haha
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19:45 pauleyd I have a problem with 3.0.6.  Migrated from an old server.  Everything looks good.  Click the "Limit to current available" in OPAC and nothing shows.  I can checkout, hold, etc...  I have run the fix on loan, all onloan in items are NULL, damaged, lost, etc all have zeroes.  Help?
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19:47 wizzyrea hi hdl
19:47 hdl hi wizzyrea
19:48 pauleyd also get varying responses for Copies Available in OPAC when the entries look pretty much the same.  Some show nothing, some show the school but no copies, but you can check them out.
19:48 pauleyd btw Hi
19:48 pauleyd :)
19:48 wizzyrea oh hi.
19:49 wizzyrea indexing?
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19:57 reva jcamins: I tried the 092 tag with ab2 subfields in my install(the open source, non-vendor version) and it still does not show $2 (edition number) though I can input the values when creating/editing the record. I can send you the snap shots of Normal and Marc from OPAC in paste bin tomorrow as we are closing for the day now.
19:58 reva I guess my last comment was also for jwagner:
20:01 jcamins reva: I can't really advise on this.
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20:03 reva ok, I was just telling that so you know I tested it on my system (about only two sub-fileds showing up) when displaying call number (when I enter it in the ib-record). But I might just follow your way and enter the call numbers in the item record.
20:03 reva that is supposed to be bib-record. Tired of typing for the day.
20:05 reva Item record call numbers over-ride the defaults anyway, so that would be the way to go, especially for a mixed schemes. Bye for now, jcamins. Good night from Antigua and Barbuda.
20:10 pauleyd @wunder Seattle, WA
20:10 munin pauleyd: The current temperature in Herrera Environmental Consultants, Seattle, Washington is 19.0�C (1:20 PM PDT on August 23, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 56%. Dew Point: 10.0�C. Pressure: 30.26 in 1024.6 hPa (Steady).
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20:19 richard hi
20:24 chris back
20:24 chris wizzyrea: haha is right
20:27 jcamins Good night, #koha
20:27 chris night jcamins
20:28 jcamins is now known as jcamins_a
20:28 chris reva1: 99.9% of vendors run koha, ... please dont lump us in with those who don't
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20:31 wizzyrea OH
20:31 wizzyrea I think i just understood reva's issue.
20:31 wizzyrea or maybe not
20:31 * wizzyrea might be a little slow.
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20:41 sekjal goodnight, #koha!
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20:46 nengard training day 1 done ... that means .. yup! ... bug reports heading your way :)
20:46 chris heh
20:47 nengard hey chris - are you working on the ability for a child to have more than one guarentor?
20:47 nengard i think I remember someone talking about it
20:47 nengard and i thought it was you
20:48 chris yeah, for 3.4
20:53 nengard awesome - thanks, i'll note that
20:54 nengard is there an RFC yet?
20:54 nengard or bug link?
20:54 chris there is a bug 2 secs
20:54 munin Bug[…]show_bug.cgi?id=2 normal, P2, ---, chris, RESOLVED FIXED, Need appropriate graphic for admin scripts
20:55 nengard silly muni
20:55 nengard munin
20:55 chris[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3591
20:55 munin Bug 3591: enhancement, P4, ---, chris, NEW, "Family administrator" account for OPAC
20:55 chris thats what i was working on
20:56 nengard thanks
20:56 chris meeting time bbiab
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21:05 wizzyrea nengard!
21:05 wizzyrea are you really in KC?
21:06 nengard wizzyrea i'm in st. joseph, mo
21:06 nengard but i did fly into KC
21:06 nengard are you close?
21:06 wizzyrea um YEA
21:06 wizzyrea like 1.5 hrs
21:06 nengard that's not close!! :)
21:06 wizzyrea well about 1 hour really
21:06 nengard but if you want to come to me you can :) hehe
21:06 wizzyrea it's close by kansas standards
21:06 nengard oh!
21:06 wizzyrea :)
21:06 wizzyrea you must be at RHCL
21:06 nengard you and hubby and little one want to meet for dinner one night? and yes RHCL
21:07 wizzyrea how long are you in town?
21:07 nengard we can do in between somewhere - you tell us
21:07 nengard I fly out Weds 6pm
21:07 wizzyrea ooh
21:07 nengard it's me and hubby here
21:07 wizzyrea well yea, it would prolly be me and the spud, but yea! I'd love to get together. i'll have to consult with greg to see where he recommends that is inbetween
21:08 nengard k - then dinner tomorrow, either you or have greg tell me where we're meeting :) I'm not a big red meat fan (i know not good in the south) but other than that no restrictions
21:08 wizzyrea pff south
21:08 wizzyrea :)
21:08 nengard wherever we are :)
21:09 wizzyrea honey, you're in flyover country. There's really no regional term that applies except that
21:09 wizzyrea ;d
21:09 wizzyrea :D
21:09 nengard when we landed bri said "boy that's a whole lot of nothing"
21:09 nengard hehe
21:09 wizzyrea (we mean it with love, of course)
21:09 wizzyrea hahahaha
21:10 nengard i finish training around 4pm
21:10 nengard and have a gps - so i just need an address :)
21:10 wizzyrea sweet
21:10 wizzyrea probably something in north KC
21:10 wizzyrea maybe mickey can swing by too, will have to ask him
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21:17 wizzyrea speak of the devil :)
21:18 wizzyrea rhcl: is weston too far to go for dinner?
21:18 wizzyrea it's about equidistant from here and there
21:19 nengard okay - not that many bug reports this time and one of them i was able to fix on my own :)
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21:28 chris yay!
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21:32 chris heya Braedon
21:32 Braedon hi chris
21:33 chris how goes uni?
21:34 Braedon frantic at the moment
21:34 Braedon two weeks until the first project deadline
21:34 Braedon and a couple of assignments due tomorrow
21:35 Braedon going to be a interesting couple of days :)
21:35 chris ahhh, sounds familiar
21:38 Braedon one of the assignments is for the general engineering sustainability paper - a 3000 word engineering report pretending you are a project manager on a project in your discipline 15 years in the future, outlining the sustainability steps are are taking,
21:39 chris yikes
21:39 Braedon no one in software knows how on earth we are supposed to write 3000 words on sustainable soffware development :P
21:39 chris heh yeah
21:40 Braedon it also has to be referenced, which is kinda interesting when relative to the report, the past 15 years have not happend yet...
21:40 chris heh yeah
21:40 chris so you can only reference work that is at least 15 years old
21:40 Braedon so yeah, fun times all around.
21:41 chris which in software engineering ... is pretty pointless
21:41 Braedon i'm considering giving as a world war sometime in the next 15 years
21:41 chris its quite likely
21:41 chris or at least escalation of the current oil wars
21:42 Braedon or perhaps the long fabled water wars
21:43 Braedon anyway, how is 3.2 coming along?
21:44 chris just waiting for galen to release an rc i think
21:44 gmcharlt yep; few more patches to go
21:44 chris anything i can do to help gmcharlt ?
21:44 wizzyrea gmcharlt!
21:45 * wizzyrea pounces gmcharlt with a big hug
21:45 gmcharlt chris: the acq upgrade is the biggest target
21:45 chris ahh yeah, that thing
21:45 wizzyrea we missed you.
21:45 chris lemme dig out how i did it for hlt
21:45 chris basically it was a select across the 2 old tables, into an outfile
21:45 nengard left #koha
21:45 chris then a load data infile
21:45 chris into the new ones
21:45 wizzyrea_ left #koha
21:46 chris ill see if i can find my notes and attach them to the bug
21:47 gmcharlt btw, does anybody know of a variation of the jQuery highlighter that does accent folding?
21:47 chris hmmm not me
21:55 pastebot "gmcharlt" at pasted "now there is one (very quick and dirty0" (41 lines) at
21:56 chris :)
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22:16 brendan @wunder 93117
22:16 munin brendan: The current temperature in Northwest Goleta, Goleta, California is 25.6�C (3:25 PM PDT on August 23, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 46%. Dew Point: 13.0�C. Pressure: 29.85 in 1010.7 hPa (Falling). Near record high temperatures expected Tuesday and Wednesday...
22:17 robin It's Tuesday now. I can tell you that there's no record high temperatures :)
22:17 brendan thanks
22:17 brendan :)
22:19 brendan predicted 28 - that doesn't seem that record shattering (but I've only lived here for 2 years)
22:31 chris_n` joined #koha
22:33 chris updated bug 4310
22:33 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4310 blocker, P5, ---, henridamien, NEW, No Migration for budgets from 3.0 to 3.2
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22:35 chobbs Afternoon all!
22:35 chris hi chobbs
22:35 chobbs Quickie: The docs say "TIP: Marking an item Lost via the edit item page will automatically put a fine on the patron's record for the replacement cost of the item". That's not happening on our system (3.00.05). Any ideas?
22:37 chris you have the fines system preference turned on eh? and other fines are going on ok?
22:37 chobbs Yes, fines are on and I ran the cron job manually to confirm that they're being charged. Are those books charge during the cron job?
22:37 chris nope, the lost charge should go on right away
22:37 chris meeting bbiab
22:38 chobbs that's what I figured.
22:38 chobbs no worries
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22:46 chobbs Is the IP Address info on Library config useful in any way?
22:47 chobbs I ask because our former ILS used client IP address to select branch for searching in OPAC.
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22:50 wajasu can anyone-> git clone git:// kohaclone     without it being slow and 6 KiB/s?
22:50 chris_n joined #koha
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22:54 chobbs wajasu:  Getting it here (northern california) at 1200KiB/s
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23:16 wajasu i've tried for a few days.  No luck cloning for me.  Got 20% after 14 hours.  my traceroute 12 hops each show <20ms.  I'm in Dallas, and I think the server is in san antonio, texas.
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23:46 wizzyrea_ hm that's kinda weird
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23:59 rich-away is now known as richard

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