IRC log for #koha, 2010-08-04

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
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03:21 Amit heya chris, brendan
03:21 brendan heya amit
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03:43 Snail Hi,  I'm from Palmerston North LUG.  We are looking for speakers for Software freedom day (20 Sept).  Can anyone suggest a representative from the Koha community who might be able to help?
03:43 chris hmmm
03:43 chris how technical do you want?
03:44 chris ie, do you want a librarian, or a developer type presentation?
03:44 richard rosalie is next door - literally
03:44 chris yup
03:44 Snail Quote: On Software Freedom Day (Sept 20) we're going to hold a Palmerston North Linux Users Group Super Meeting - venue to be advised.  We need some local businesses to talk for 5 minutes about how they use Open Source. If you know any businesses that may be interested in this free advertising opportunity please get them to contact me.  Examples of organisati
03:46 Snail Examples of organisations that might be interested include Churches, ISPs, computer support, telephony, design, programming, schools, etc.:
03:46 chris You could approach the Horowhenua Library Trust, in Levin, who started Koha
03:47 Snail I saw a reference to a P Nth school that had recently switched to Koha but cannot find the link.
03:47 chris hmm im not aware of any
03:48 Snail Do you have a contact phone no. or email address?  Their website is vague on such matters.
03:49 chris
03:50 Snail Who do I ask for at the Levin library?
03:51 chris Joann Ransom
03:52 Snail Thanks.  I'll call her now.  Would Koha be the most widely adopted free software suite from NZ do you think?
03:53 chris not sure,
03:53 chris tons of ppl use R
03:54 robin Defining 'from NZ' is tricky.
03:54 chris
03:54 chris id just say 'a' widely adopted
03:54 robin[…]chine_learning%29 <-- also weka, although less so probably
03:55 Snail Of course!  Even more if you count Gnumeric users!
03:55 chris there's greenstone too
03:55 robin And firefox :)
03:57 Snail Firefox is pushing it a bit.  And it's NZer-inspired usability is slipping of late.
03:58 robin I agree, was more suggesting that defining 'from NZ' isn't so easy.
03:58 robin My own spare-time app must have a thousand or two users, I'm not really sure.
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04:49 robin[…]-of-two-languages <-- chris, and other devs in here
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06:28 kf good morning #koha
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07:47 kf @wunder Konstanz
07:47 munin kf: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 15.6�C (9:52 AM CEST on August 04, 2010). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 87%. Dew Point: 13.0�C. Pressure: 29.95 in 1014.1 hPa (Falling).
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08:08 chris evening
08:10 kf hi chris
08:11 Amit heya kf
08:12 kf ah, I have a question for you: do you know about planned development for child and parent accounts?
08:12 kf i found bug 3591
08:12 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3591 enhancement, P4, ---, chris, NEW, "Family administrator" account for OPAC
08:12 kf and hi Amit
08:12 kf a library asked me about those account, our academic libraries don't use them
08:14 chris yeah
08:15 chris the way it works now, children can be attached to a parent (or a guardian) as a guarantro
08:15 chris guarantor even
08:15 chris which means if the books go missing or whatever there is a adult the library can fine
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08:16 chris but they cant do anything like renew the kids books etc
08:16 chris this will allow them to see what their kids have out, renew them, those kind of things
08:16 chris all from their account in the opac
08:17 chris does that make sense?
08:18 chris its not actually that hard to do, mostly its designing the interface
08:42 kf ok
08:42 kf thx chris
08:43 kf the public library I presented koha to asked about this features
08:47 chris yep, its on my todo list
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09:34 kf is it possible that serials does not respect dataformat? (at all?)
09:36 magnus what do you mean by "respect dataformat"?
09:38 kf dateformat sys pref
09:38 kf metric/us/iso
09:41 magnus ah, ok. sorry, i have no idea about the actual question...
09:41 kf no problem :) was thinking loud
09:41 kf and I don't see this behaviour in my other installation :(
09:41 kf which is slightly older...
09:44 kf ok my fault... just ignore me
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09:53 kf lunch :)
09:53 dagentoob hello.... I am having some troble with the Koha LDAP authentication. I can bind to the dir but the password hash doesn't match... anyone have any ideas?
09:56 dagentoob if I enable auth_by_bind I don't get any errors in either error log but it still won't log me in
09:57 dagentoob if I enable it I get "LDAP Auth rejected: invalid password for user 'me'. LDAP error #5: LDAP_COMPARE_FALSE,"
10:17 Amit heya dagentoob
10:19 dagentoob heya amit
10:19 dagentoob it is supposed to be dagentooboy.... after the Gentoo distro but it cut it off :D
10:21 dagentoob so any ideas on my LDAP wowes?
10:22 dagentoob woes
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11:32 smustafa Good day all :)
11:32 smustafa It seems that with Koha 3.00.00 Z39.50 Search engine does not search by LC Call Number:
11:32 smustafa Any ideas?  I am searching like TH7414 .S65 1997.
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11:40 dagentoob no ideas on the LDAP?
11:44 kf smustafa have you tried to search for parts of the call number?
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11:51 smustafa yes I have actually
11:51 smustafa I tried searching for TH7414 only and nothing
11:51 smustafa same for TH7414 .S65
11:51 smustafa nothing....
11:53 kf which search option?
11:53 kf which field is LC call number?
11:53 kf I think . are ignored
11:56 kf @karma Colin
11:56 munin kf: Karma for "Colin" has been increased 14 times and decreased 2 times for a total karma of 12.
11:56 kf Colin++
11:57 kf smustafa: I can look in the code, but plz tell me the marc field
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11:59 dagentoob anyone that could shed some light on the LDAP situation?
12:00 kf dagentoob: perhaps try the mailing lists
12:01 kf dagentoob: I think ldap is not used by a lot of people
12:01 kf on the mailing list more people will read your question
12:01 dagentoob yeah I know... I have found links to some documentation but wiki.koha doesn't seem to exist anymore
12:01 dagentoob thanks
12:02 kf it is
12:03 kf a backup of the old wiki can be found here: but content might be out of date.
12:08 smustafa I will look into the log files and see if there are any errors first, give me a minute
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12:11 smustafa It says
12:11 smustafa Use of uninitialized value in subroutine entry at /usr/local/lib/perl/5.10.0/ line 493, <DATA> line 522., referer:[…]g/
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12:12 smustafa sub search_pqf {     my $this = shift();     my($pqf) = @_;      my $_rs = Net::Z3950::ZOOM::connection​_search_pqf($this->_conn(), $pqf);     $this->_check();     return _new ZOOM::ResultSet($this, $pqf, $_rs); }
12:12 smustafa I think $pqf is uninitialized....hmmm why not sure :)
12:13 kf ah, you tried to search for lc call number in cataloging z39.50?
12:13 smustafa Yes :)
12:13 kf I thought in catalog
12:14 kf not sure how that works, perhaps it depends on the client target
12:14 smustafa no in thde z39.50 search :)
12:14 kf not sure all targets support this search option
12:14 smustafa no idea either sadly...I will have to trace it, until some one else comes on and knows the fix :)
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12:20 kf hi owen and schuster
12:21 owen Hi
12:23 jwagner Morning, all...
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12:32 kf good morning jwagner
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12:53 owen gmcharlt around?
12:53 gmcharlt hi woen
12:53 gmcharlt owen, even
12:54 owen Hi gmcharlt, I'm digging into the matching rules interface and have a question if you have time
12:54 gmcharlt sure
12:54 owen Under match points, there are two groupings: search index and score, and tag, subfields etc.
12:55 owen Is that a significant distinction?
12:56 gmcharlt the second group is repeatable
12:56 owen It is? How?
12:58 gmcharlt search index and score correspond to matcher_matchpoints
12:58 gmcharlt tag, subfields, etc corresponding to matchpoint_components;
12:59 owen Theoretically repeatable, or I should be able to do it via the interface? I don't think there is a control to make them repeat
13:01 kf owen, I think you can when you add a new rule, there is a + -
13:03 owen I see links to "add matchpoint" and to "remove matchpoint" but I don't see any link to duplicate the matchpoint_components specifically
13:03 kf let me check
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13:04 kf ok, I meant those links: Add matchpoint              Remove this matchpoint
13:05 owen That duplicates both the matcher_matchpoints and matchpoint_components. Perhaps that isn't correct?
13:05 kf oh, I also see a link add match check
13:06 owen I think that's another thing entirely
13:06 kf ok, I m confused
13:06 kf :)
13:06 kf owen: what is the problem?
13:06 owen I don't know, I'm waiting for gmcharlt to tell me if there is one :)
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13:07 gmcharlt it's more fucntionality that could be implemented in the UI
13:07 kf can you take a look at bug 5088 while waiting? :)
13:07 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5088 normal, P5, ---, oleonard, NEW, HTML tags in Amazon reviews
13:07 gmcharlt but not commonly used
13:07 kf now you were too fast gmcharlt :)
13:08 owen gmcharlt: So if it was possible to duplicate the matchpoint_component fieldset the duplicated data could be saved by Koha?
13:08 gmcharlt yes
13:08 owen Okay, thanks
13:09 owen kf: See also Bug 2712
13:09 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=2712 minor, P3, ---, gmcharlt, NEW, Invalid 3rd party content ( eg Amazon ) can break page layout
13:11 * owen gets grumpy around Amazon content
13:12 kf cookie? :)
13:12 * jwagner catches up a bit
13:12 * kf tries to bribe owen ... hope thats not illegal on #koha
13:13 owen I'm too deep into Bug 5006 at the moment. But please, don't every hesitate to bribe :)
13:13 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5006 normal, P5, ---, oleonard, ASSIGNED, Invalid XHTML in record matching rules template
13:13 jwagner Speaking of matching rules, one of the things I normally do for my new sites is create a combined rule -- OCLC @, LCCN, ISBN, ISSN, etc. so they can use just one rule instead of trying to pick out separate ones.  Would this be a useful enhancement.
13:14 kf owen: it's not urgent, only annoying
13:17 schuster howday all!
13:17 owen One more question gmcharlt: I see "Normalization rule" is also marked up with its own ID.
13:17 owen Can that one repeat as well?
13:18 gmcharlt yes, a matchpoint_component can more than one norm
13:18 gmcharlt jwagner: yes, that sounds like useful default data to add
13:18 owen So an additional enhancement would be to enable duplication of that form field as well
13:20 gmcharlt ye
13:23 * jwagner HATES trying to figure out HTML. Just sayin'
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13:28 dagentoob if anyone was wondering I kindof solved the LDAP thing
13:28 dagentoob change line 118 in Auth with
13:28 dagentoob to $principal_name = sprintf("uid=%s,cn=users,dc=​yourserver,dv=com",$userid);
13:29 dagentoob what was happening was that it was trying to bind as just uid.... for some reason my ldap server wouldn't accept that
13:30 dagentoob so I formatted the string just like the other bind() command above
13:31 dagentoob anyone know what Patron category you need to get into the backend? I tried staff and it isn't working
13:33 owen It's not by patron category, it's by individual patron privileges
13:34 owen The first thing to do after a new install is log in as your kohaadmin user, create a new patron record for yourself, and give yourself superlibrarian privileges
13:35 owen dagentoob: Do you know where that option is?
13:36 dagentoob no I don't know where that option is
13:38 dagentoob k I just found it
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13:39 dagentoob is there a way to make all the LDAP admins have that privledge?
13:39 * owen has no idea
13:39 kf jwagner: I like html :)
13:40 jwagner kf, want to do all of mine???  I'll make the cookies!
13:40 jwagner It just took me half an hour to figure out something that most properly-trained web developers could probably do in 30 seconds.  Sigh.
13:41 kf ok, send cookies first ;)
13:42 jwagner What, you want payment in ADVANCE????
13:43 * jwagner Are Not A Web Developer!
13:43 jcamins_a jwagner: if it makes you feel any better, I only know about six HTML tags, and three of those are html, head, and body.
13:43 jcamins_a is now known as jcamins
13:44 * jwagner feels a little better, thanks.
13:44 * jcamins is also very impressed by the ability of everyone on #koha to do things with jQuery.
13:46 kf jcamins: I have a cheat sheet for jQuery - changing snippets I learned from owen and others
13:47 jwagner kf, I have one too :-)
13:47 kf and sometimes looking up things on the website
13:47 jwagner I still think if all the Koha libraries in the world would band together & contribute a few bucks, we could hire owen to do fulltime development for us :-)
13:47 jcamins I should learn jQuery. It just seems daunting, and not what I want to spend all my time on. Can't I just plug my brain in somewhere and learn it all instantly?
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13:49 jcamins ;)
13:49 owen jwagner: I'm willing to evaluate the weight of that sack of money
13:49 owen jcamins: HTML first, then jQuery :P
13:50 sekjal owen: did you have a favourite resource for learning jQuery?
13:51 jwagner owen, you DID say that bribes were welcome!
13:52 owen I highly recommend this book for a good foundation of understanding of JavaScript and HTML manipulation:[…]blionumber=166222
13:52 owen I think that book gives you a really good starting point for understanding what jQuery does
13:52 owen ...even though it doesn't talk about jQuery at all
13:53 owen Everything I know about jQuery I learned piecemeal though. Besides the official jQuery docs, I go back to this time and time again:
13:54 sekjal owen: thanks!
13:55 owen Also:
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14:00 CGI290 So I'm importing bibliographic records and I ran into a problem...
14:01 CGI290 I want to input information into marc fields but the records that I imported do not have those fields
14:02 CGI290 Does anyone know how I can add additional fields to the marc records which I have imported?
14:02 owen CGI290: Besides editing each one individually?
14:04 druthb owen:  I thought you were writing a mind-reading plugin...or was that for circulation?  ;-)
14:04 CGI290 I'm importing the records one by one so adding additional fields to each one individually would not be a problem
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14:04 owen CGI290: You could either use a tool like MarcEdit to amend the records before import, or you could use the MARC editor in Koha after import
14:05 owen When editing in Koha you'll have to make sure the framework you're editing your records with has the fields you want
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14:13 briceSanc hi
14:14 briceSanc I'm trying to import RVM Laval in my Koha, Do i need to use or another script ?
14:19 CGI290 owen, I'm using the default framework
14:19 owen does it have the tags you want?
14:21 owen If so then you'll be able to edit those tags in the editor. If not then you'll have to amend the framework so that those tags are present
14:23 CGI290 When I look at the default framework in "Koha Administration", the tags show up.  However, not all of the tags which show up there appear when I import a record
14:24 owen CGI290: Do you have an example?
14:24 owen What tag doesn't show up?
14:24 CGI290 tag 880...alternate graphic representation
14:24 CGI290 that is the specific tag that I want to add to the records I'm importing
14:26 ebegin briceSanc, RVM are authorities, not bibliographic records
14:26 owen CGI290: It looks like that tags subfields are all hidden in the MARC editor because of the configuration of the default framework
14:27 kf CGI290: which version of koha are u using?
14:27 kf 880 tags will show up in opac/staff with xslt and 3.1... not in 3.0.x
14:28 CGI290 koha 3.01
14:28 kf 3.0.1?
14:28 owen kf: But we're talking about the tag showing up in the editor
14:28 kf owen: sorry :)
14:28 CGI290
14:29 owen CGI290: Do you know how to edit a tag's subfields in framework administration?
14:29 kf CGI290: ok, it will display with that version - and owen is right, first you need to add them in the editor
14:29 * kf is silent now
14:31 CGI290 owen: i can go to "koha administration" then "marc bibliographic framework"
14:32 CGI290 that shows me a list of frameworks: default, audio cassettes, books, etc
14:32 CGI290 is that correct?
14:32 owen Then click 'MARC structure' for the default framework
14:32 CGI290 ok
14:32 owen Search for tag 880
14:33 CGI290 ok
14:33 owen Click the "Subfields" link for 880
14:33 CGI290 ok
14:33 owen Click the "Edit Subfields" button at the bottom of that page
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14:34 CGI290 ok
14:34 owen You should now be on a page titled "Tag 880 Subfield Constraints"
14:34 CGI290 yep
14:34 owen I don't know anything about tag 880, so I don't know which subfields you need
14:35 owen For the ones you want to show, click that tab, then click "display more constraints"
14:35 CGI290 ok
14:35 CGI290 should I do something to the "hidden" box
14:35 owen Yes. Does it say "-6" ?
14:35 CGI290 yes
14:36 CGI290 should I change it?
14:36 owen Scroll to the top of the page and click the help link [?] in the upper right hand corner of the screen
14:36 owen The help info shows all the different values for hidden and what they do
14:36 owen You probably want "0"
14:37 owen brb
14:38 CGI290 do I need to make that same change to all of the subfields?
14:43 kf CGI290: to all subfields you want to show, yes
14:43 CGI290 thnx
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14:46 owen I hope that means success
14:46 kf CGI290: in order to make the display work correctly you will need to add a correct $6 with tag and language code
14:48 kf CGI290: one of our libraries is using 880 for hebrew:[…]iblionumber=30613
14:50 kf owen: I tested your patch for bug 4924 - it works nice :)
14:50 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4924 major, P5, ---, paul.poulain, NEW, Public/Internal notes missing in staff normal view
14:50 kf but I will change the severity to enh and rel3_4 - it seems the notes were never displayed. ok for you?
14:52 owen No big deal to me
14:55 jwagner is now known as jwag_mtg
15:06 owen Interesting that's information about Koha Express no longer specifies which version you'll get.
15:06 owen " the most current Koha Project release." 3.0.6 ?
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15:06 owen If you go to the demo page it says "3.0.3."
15:07 owen Not exactly current.
15:07 owen Make it difficult to offer help in the mailing list
15:10 kf hm, she wrote it's not on the website, perhaps she can still check the about page?
15:13 * chris_n prepares to send * to the spam box >-(
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15:14 zer0c00l Hi, I am new to koha and i am no librarian . I am trying to stage  a marc record. Where can i get a sample marc record for upload?
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15:17 owen zer0c00l: You could save one from a public Koha OPAC:[…]iblionumber=16595
15:17 owen "Save record" in the menu on the right
15:18 zer0c00l owen: Thank you. Doing it
15:26 zer0c00l owen: How do i add new book information into koha? I added a  marc record. Do i have to edit the imported record to add new?
15:27 owen Do you mean to add copies?
15:27 zer0c00l owen: new book
15:27 zer0c00l not copies
15:27 owen You can create new bibliographic records from scratch.
15:28 owen Cataloging -> Add MARC Record
15:29 zer0c00l owen: There i see lot of numbers and descriptions. The librarian has very little idea about MARC records, is there any way to disable them and create user friendly bibliographic records?
15:30 owen You could create your own simplified framework, but it's a tedious process.
15:31 zer0c00l owen: ok
15:31 zer0c00l so each time i want to add a new  book into the system , do i need to "Add a MARC record" ?
15:32 owen If you want to create a record from scratch, yes.
15:32 owen You could also do a z3950 search to grab a record from someone else's system.
15:33 zer0c00l owen: ok. Thank you. I got it.
15:34 rhcl_away is now known as rhcl
15:53 zer0c00l I am creating a new MARC framework, i need to delete lot of tags to make it short , It is really pain to delete them individually. Is there any short way to do it?
15:54 owen Unfortunately the only alternative is to do it directly via MySQL
15:54 jcamins zer0c00l: I don't think so. You might better off just hiding all the tags instead of deleting them.
15:54 jcamins If you delete all the tags, I think that means that you wouldn't be able to do copy cataloging with Z39.50.
15:54 zer0c00l jcamins: How do i hide them?
15:55 zer0c00l owen: I will check the mysql tables :-)
15:55 jcamins It explains in the manual.
15:55 jcamins Let me find it for you. Hold on.
15:56 zer0c00l ok
15:57 jcamins[…]?ch=x3725#AEN3728
15:57 jcamins Under
15:57 jcamins Set hidden to 6 for each subfield you don't want to show.
15:58 zer0c00l jcamins: ok
15:58 jcamins It's very, very tedious.
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16:03 nengard jcamins i have an enhancement request in place for making editing the frameworks easier
16:04 jcamins nengard++
16:06 nengard jcamins can't seem to find it anymore ... hmmmm - off to hunt some more
16:06 nengard bug 1289
16:06 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=1289 enhancement, P5, ---, paul.poulain, NEW, Bulk/global edit for MARC frameworks
16:07 nengard wasn't me who reported it apparently
16:07 nengard but i'm on the cc list :) hehe
16:08 nengard i'd add that frameworks is 'developereese' and 'templates' is the language that catalogers use
16:10 owen That bug is going to take some funding. No one wants to wade into it unaccompanied I'm sure.
16:11 zer0c00l All i have to do is set the hidden column of marc_subfield_structure table to 6 :)
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16:12 kf owen: template question - is there a standard class or something to use on fields to make them longer or just increase the size attribute? (bug 4979
16:12 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4979 enhancement, P5, ---, oleonard, NEW, Acq: input fields for new record are too short
16:12 owen Input field length is determined by the input's "size" attribute
16:12 Drakmor Hey, how do I get kbarcode to connect to our server? I'm thinking I'm putting in the wrong information... but I'm not sure. Also, where can I find info about updating koha 3.0 to 3.2?
16:14 kf owen: just wanted to make sure - I dont want to change something when there is a better method or something that is used everywhere else
16:14 owen kf: But inputs sie can be affected by CSS if you want to. You'd have to target that particular set of inputs
16:15 owen I'm not sure where that "sie" came from.
16:15 kf owen: I know, but I thought this change would be useful for everyone
16:15 owen In this case altering the template is the correct thing to do
16:16 kf but I will hide some things in acq with css - fields I could not make any sense of :)
16:16 kf display:none can be really helpful
16:17 owen There's lots in acq I can't make sense of
16:18 sekjal Drakmor: Koha 3.2 will automatically upgrade your 3.0 database when installed.
16:18 Drakmor ok, I just install it like a new system?
16:18 sekjal Drakmor: did you install your 3.0 instance from the tar file, or from git?
16:19 Drakmor I used the live CD.... so I don't know the method the author used.
16:19 sekjal Drakmor: ah.  well, in either case, you'd want to run: perl Makefile.PL --prev-install-log /path/to/koha-install-log
16:19 sekjal to keep all the same configurations
16:20 sekjal you'l have to find koha-install-log, first, which will be in a different place depending on the install type
16:20 Drakmor sure... at this point, the only reason I'm considering an upgrade is to get the improved barcoding... if kbarcode works, I would perfer to use it
16:21 hdl left #koha
16:21 Drakmor I've installed it, but it doesn't seem to want to connect....
16:21 sekjal hmmm, haven't messed with kbarcode before...
16:22 Drakmor ok... I'm probably just putting in the wrong stuff to request a connection.
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16:59 owen is now known as owen-away
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17:31 mib_mike Hi guys
17:31 mib_mike Is there any way to delete a group of item or bib records by a list of barcodes or bibnumbers?
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17:36 kf mib_mike: 3.2 will have a tool for bulk delete
17:37 kf for items, not sure about bib records, but I think that will not be possible
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17:40 jwag_mtg is now known as jwagner
17:53 mib_mike Why wouldn't it be possible?
17:54 kf I think there is no built in feature to bulk delete records.
17:55 kf not in the UI, but I think you can script something - perhaps someone else knows how you can do that on command line or with scripts
17:56 pianohack joined #koha
17:57 mib_mike If someone can whip up some recommended SQL, I'd appreciate it.
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17:59 owen-away is now known as owen
18:02 brendan joined #koha
18:15 kf sql is not the only thing you need to think of, it's a lot of tables and reindexing (and perhaps you will get problems if items were issued, ordered in acq...)
18:16 kf not sure how to do that
18:17 kf perhaps ask on list or a bit later when people from a different time zone are awake
18:22 kf bye all
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19:10 owen Use of uninitialized value in string ne at /opac/ line 143
19:10 owen ?
19:27 mib_mike left #koha
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19:39 cait joined #koha
19:39 cait hi #koha
19:40 jwagner hi cait
19:41 cait will you tell me to stop working?
19:41 owen Stop working!
19:41 cait I was talking to jwagner... ;)
19:42 chris_n @wunder 28334
19:42 munin chris_n: The current temperature in Erwin, North Carolina is 34.0�C (3:40 PM EDT on August 04, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 67%. Dew Point: 27.0�C. Pressure: 29.95 in 1014 hPa (Falling). Heat advisory in effect from 11 am to 7 PM EDT Thursday...
19:42 cait owen: thx for my amazon bug :)
19:42 jwagner OK, cait, STOP WORKING!
19:42 cait hmpf.
19:42 jwagner (your wish is my command....)
19:42 owen @wunder 45701
19:42 munin owen: The current temperature in Ohio University, Athens, Ohio is 22.8�C (3:45 PM EDT on August 04, 2010). Conditions: Light Thunderstorms and Rain. Humidity: 83%. Dew Point: 20.0�C. Pressure: 29.74 in 1007.0 hPa (Falling). Severe Thunderstorm Watch 567 in effect until 9 PM EDT this evening...
19:42 * chris_n thinks a heat index of 47.2 C is too hight
19:42 cait ok, she is convincing...
19:42 cait @wunder Konstanz
19:43 munin cait: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 15.3�C (9:48 PM CEST on August 04, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 86%. Dew Point: 13.0�C. Pressure: 29.80 in 1009.0 hPa (Falling).
19:44 brendan @wunder 93117
19:44 munin brendan: The current temperature in Northwest Goleta, Goleta, California is 19.4�C (12:45 PM PDT on August 04, 2010). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 71%. Dew Point: 14.0�C. Pressure: 29.96 in 1014.4 hPa (Falling).
19:45 cait jwagner: does the wish thing work with cookies too?
19:46 wizzyrea @wunder lawrence KS
19:46 wizzyrea @wunder 66047
19:46 munin wizzyrea: The current temperature in Lawrence Live-Courtesy of the Khoury's, Lawrence, Kansas is 30.3�C (2:52 PM CDT on August 04, 2010). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 66%. Dew Point: 23.0�C. Pressure: 29.89 in 1012.1 hPa (Rising).
19:46 wizzyrea oh, well that could be worse I guess
19:46 JeremyLC what is the number? (GPS coords?)
19:47 jcamins JeremyLC: post code.
19:47 jwagner cait, with virtual cookies anyway :-)
19:47 JeremyLC oh, right
19:47 JeremyLC @wunder 76019
19:47 munin JeremyLC: The current temperature in Shady Valley West, Arlington, Texas is 36.2�C (2:52 PM CDT on August 04, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 46%. Dew Point: 23.0�C. Pressure: 29.87 in 1011.4 hPa (Falling). Heat advisory in effect until 9 PM CDT Thursday...
19:48 cait jwagner: that's a start
19:48 jcamins @wunder 11105
19:48 munin jcamins: The current temperature in Astoria, Astoria, New York is 31.9�C (3:50 PM EDT on August 04, 2010). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 62%. Dew Point: 24.0�C. Pressure: 29.79 in 1008.7 hPa (Falling). Heat advisory in effect from 1 PM this afternoon to 8 PM EDT Thursday...
19:48 jcamins At least it isn't as hot as Texas.
19:48 JeremyLC the high was 40 today
19:49 cait it's cold here - it's still supposed to be summer :(
19:49 JeremyLC and, supposedly, somewhere around 43 for the week (C, not F)
19:53 cait still fighting with bug 5090
19:53 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5090 critical, P5, ---, henridamien, NEW, New order from empty record does not save publication year and ISBN
19:55 jcamins cait: didn't jwagner tell you to stop working a little while ago?
19:55 cait oh...
19:55 * cait hides
19:55 jcamins jwagner: don't worry... _I_ still find you daunting. ;)
19:57 pianohac1 left #koha
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20:04 * jwagner has no wish to be daunting to anyone. Except druthb and whoever is annoying me that day.
20:06 pianohack left #koha
20:06 jwagner But I did bring a baseball bat into the office a week or two ago, when I was being exceptionally aggravated by certain persons who shall be nameless.
20:07 wizzyrea ...
20:07 jcamins wizzyrea: by the way, how did your curry coconut oatmeal chocolate chip cookies come out?
20:08 wizzyrea I haven't had a chance to make them yet >.<
20:08 cait what is the difference between biblio.copyrightdate and biblioitems.publicatonyear? one is used by marc21 and the other by unimarc *grumbles*
20:09 jcamins cait: I think publicationyear may be linked to the 260 in MARC21, whereas copyrightdate is linked to the 008. It's ugly.
20:09 cait nope
20:09 jcamins Oh.
20:09 cait copyrightdate is 260 c by default
20:09 cait and publicationyear is not mapped at all
20:09 jcamins Hm. Never mind then.
20:10 cait which is the reason you can't save the publication year in new orders in acq
20:10 cait jcamins: it would be to easy if you were right ;)
20:11 jcamins You won't be so sure when you start trying to understand dates in Zebra. :P
20:13 cait oh I know about them - forced my coworker to add 008 to the data we are migrating right now :)
20:19 briceSanc left #koha
20:19 chris monring
20:20 cait hi chris
20:20 jcamins Morning.
20:24 brendan morning chris
20:24 chris congrats on goddard college brendan
20:25 chris came at a very timely moment for us too
20:25 schuster left #koha
20:25 brendan "came at a very timely moment for us too"  - not following
20:25 brendan and thanks :)
20:26 chris well, its a move from vtls virtua ils right?
20:27 brendan yup
20:27 owen left #koha
20:27 chris will help us out with an rfp response
20:29 brendan chris++
20:33 cait :(
20:33 cait someone willing to help me with perl?
20:34 jwagner Willing, yes.  Able, it depends :-)
20:34 chris :)
20:34 richard joined #koha
20:34 richard hi
20:34 chris hi richard
20:35 richard hey chris
20:35 cait jwagner: give me a minute to reconstruct the original code
20:36 jwagner chris & others online can probably help -- they're better at Perl than I am
20:38 sekjal left #koha
20:39 cait I really need to work on the basics :(
20:39 cait
20:40 cait I think the addorder script must use different fields in koha-to-marc-mapping for unimarc and marc21 - publicationyear is not mapped for marc21, only for unimarc. marc21 has 260c mapped to biblio.copyrightdate
20:41 cait but I m not sure how to get my if clause in there... I tried repeating the whole block for a start, but after that it was complaining
20:41 jwagner Why are there two $$ with your variables?  e.g., "biblio.title"                => "$$orderinfo{title}"
20:41 jwagner Is that in your code, or just a screenpaste thing?
20:41 darling joined #koha
20:41 cait not my variables :)
20:42 cait no, it's in the code
20:42 cait but everything above ---- is the original code from acqui/
20:42 chris jwagner and cait $$orderinfo{title} is the same as $orderinfo->{title}
20:42 chris i prefer the latter as it is much more readable
20:42 cait you are right
20:42 jwagner OK, that explains the $$, then.  Never noticed that construction before.
20:43 cait I think the ? : construction checks if the variable exists? but why does it not check author - its not required in the form
20:43 jwagner Are you trying to do the syspref check within the my $record section?
20:44 cait oh, and isbn is not saving although it seems to be mapped correctly
20:44 cait hm, no.
20:44 chris do you really want to map publication year to copyrightdate?
20:44 cait I tried repeating the whole block (although I know its not good, but to have something working I could try to make better)
20:44 cait chris: I see no better solution
20:45 chris but surely publication year should map to publicationyear?
20:45 cait it is not mapped like this now
20:45 cait marc21 maps to copyrightdate
20:45 jwagner I've generally found it easier to do the syspref check before the my $record type section, enter the value in a generic variable, then use that variable instead of the $$orderinfo{publicationyear}
20:45 cait don't ask me wh
20:45 cait y
20:45 cait ah
20:46 jwagner so pseudo code would be if UNIMARC, $mypubyear = the one field, elsif MARC21, $mypubyear = the other field, then in the record construct, biblioitems.publicationyear = $mypubyear
20:47 chris cait: ahh i see what you mean in marc21 publicationyear is not mapped to anything
20:47 cait yep
20:48 cait bug 5090
20:48 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=5090 critical, P5, ---, henridamien, NEW, New order from empty record does not save publication year and ISBN
20:48 chris ok what i would do
20:48 chris is leave it being saved to biblioitems.publicationyear
20:48 chris but if its MARC21 also save it to biblio.copyrightdate
20:48 chris lemme just write it up for ya
20:49 cait chris: thx, I have something working now... but I think it's not the best code
20:49 cait your solution sounds better
20:49 cait not depending on a marcformat :)
20:49 jwagner Yes, definitely easier than coding it.
20:50 cait <- what jwagner said (or at least I think so :) )
20:51 pastebot "chris" at pasted "if ( $orderinfo->{quantity} ne" (17 lines) at
20:52 jwagner cait, that isn't quite right -- you can't have the $publicationyear as the first piece on line.  See chris's version
20:52 cait but it works
20:52 cait :)
20:53 cait chris: I am not sure I understand your comments
20:54 chris mapping publicationyear to copyrightdate is a bad hack
20:54 cait remove the line or the comment after the bug is fixed?
20:54 chris its not the same thing at all
20:54 cait ah
20:54 cait ok
20:54 chris the whole line
20:54 chris copyrightdate should go to copyrightdate ;)
20:54 cait but if its the standard for 260c - I think it would be much more complicated to change that
20:54 moodaepo @wunder 56001
20:54 munin moodaepo: The current temperature in South on Monks, Mankato, Minnesota is 30.9�C (3:59 PM CDT on August 04, 2010). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 44%. Dew Point: 17.0�C. Pressure: 29.92 in 1013.1 hPa (Falling).
20:54 chris 260c is not copyright
20:54 cait oh
20:55 chris @marc 260c
20:55 munin chris: unknown tag 260c
20:55 cait no
20:55 chris @marc 260
20:55 munin chris: Information relating to the publication, printing, distribution, issue, release, or production of a work. (Repeatable) [a,b,c,e,f,g,3,6,8]
20:55 chris @marc 260 c
20:55 munin chris: Date of publication, distribution, etc. May contain multiple dates (e.g., dates of publication and copyright). (Repeatable)
20:55 chris or not just copyright anyway :)
20:55 chris marc is stupid
20:55 cait not my fault
20:55 cait ;)
20:55 chris yep
20:56 chris @marc 260 a
20:56 munin chris: Place of publication, distribution, etc. May contain the abbreviation [S.l.] when the place is unknown. (Repeatable)
20:56 chris @marc 260 e
20:56 munin chris: Place of manufacture  (Repeatable)
20:56 cait but you can not easily change that... I think even with a database update it would be not easy
20:56 cait because people can change that
20:56 chris yes, but we should still be saving BOTH
20:57 cait and will have different settings in their installations... I am not sure looking those fields up this way is a good solution
20:57 cait so why only save both for marc21 and not for unimarc too?
20:57 chris we arent saving both for either
20:58 chris not in the marc records
20:58 chris what we are doing, is at least storing it in the db for marc21 as publicationyear
20:58 cait it will not save
20:59 chris the real fix is have both publicationyear and copyright mapped to a different field
20:59 cait hm perhaps I am missing something in marc21 here
20:59 chris because they arent the same thing
21:01 cait If the date of copyright acts as a surrogate for the date of  publication,  it must be recorded in subfield $c (Date of publication, distribution,  etc.)  preceded by the appropriate copyright or phonogram copyright symbol.   Additionally, it may be recorded in subfield $g (Copyright date) of  field 542 (Information relating to copyright status).
21:01 chris yeah
21:01 cait confusing
21:01 chris so if you dont know the date of publication
21:01 chris use the copyrightdate
21:01 jcamins 542 is mostly only used in archives, to the best of my knowledge.
21:02 chris if you do know both the copyrightdate and publicationdate you are out of luck because marc is retarded
21:02 jcamins Not that this my knowledge is definitive, of course.
21:02 cait ok, we already knew that
21:03 cait any idea why I can't save the isbn?
21:03 chris to get round this, i would store the copyright in 542g
21:03 cait I found a reason for the publication year but the mapping for isbn seams correct to me
21:03 chris and publicationdate in 260c
21:03 chris then at least you dont lose data
21:03 cait chris: but what will we do with all the installations that used copyrightdate to store the publicationdate?
21:03 chris fix them
21:04 chris what if you want to search on publicationdate
21:04 chris you cant
21:04 chris we dont have it
21:04 chris because its hard to fix isnt a reason to leave it broken :)
21:04 cait ok. why do I always find these confusing bugs?
21:04 cait I started with a small template change today...
21:04 jcamins Because you're an awesome tester? :)
21:05 cait bugnetic.. or something
21:05 chris does $$orderinfo{isbn} have data in it?
21:06 cait I have no idea how to test that, I tried reading the code and found nothing obviously wrong
21:06 cait it starts as a form in neworderempty.tmpl
21:07 chris warn $$orderinfo{isbn};
21:07 chris before that block, then look in the error log
21:07 chris maybe
21:08 Nate left #koha
21:08 chris warn "KATRIN TEST: isbn =  $orderinfo{isbn}";
21:08 chris warn "KATRIN TEST: isbn =  $$orderinfo{isbn}";
21:08 chris even
21:08 chris then you can go
21:08 chris tail -f /path/to/error.log | grep "KATRIN"
21:09 cait hm compilaton error
21:09 cait added your code and tried adding a new record
21:09 chris yeah im just typing into the window here
21:09 chris so i wouldnt guarantee im not making syntax errors
21:10 cait ok, found one mistake ; instead of ,
21:12 cait hm still unhappy
21:12 cait Global symbol "$record" requires explicit package name at /home/katrin/kohaclone/acqui/ line 205.
21:13 cait and 3 syntax errors in lines I did not touch
21:13 chris can you paste what you have
21:15 cait
21:16 chris yeah my bad
21:17 chris lets just take that if out
21:17 chris "biblio.copyrightdate"        => $$orderinfo{publicationyear},
21:17 chris like you say, no harm doing it for unimarc too
21:17 cait ah
21:18 chris also before the my $record line
21:18 chris you could put
21:18 chris use Data::Dumper;
21:18 cait isbn is suddenly showing...
21:18 chris warn Dumper $orderinfo;
21:18 cait but year not... will try with a new record
21:20 * cait is totally confused now
21:20 cait ok, added new record, filled out all fields, saved
21:20 cait now: year is not shown, but isbn
21:20 cait I never got it to show the isbn before, but why is the year not there?
21:20 chris yeah what you want to do is find out what is in the $orderinfo variable
21:21 JeremyLC hmm, using koha 3.1 it appears to have a fully implemented auth_by_bind feature, except for the part where it actually does anything :-/
21:21 chris so we can actually see what it is trying to save
21:21 cait ah, the year shows up in the marc record
21:21 cait so there is perhaps someting wrong with the display in acw
21:21 cait acq
21:22 chris could be
21:23 chris it might be trying to use biblioitems.publicationyear which isnt mapped
21:23 chris in marc21, so would work in unimarc
21:23 cait yeah, I think you are right, there is one more place
21:23 jwagner Unlike cait, I'm going to quit working overtime for the day :-) See you all tomorrow....
21:24 cait jwagner: thx for your help :)
21:24 chris cya
21:24 jwagner left #koha
21:24 cait I just want to solve it... or I will dream about it
21:29 cait chris: does this look ok? (it works... but still)
21:29 cait publicationyear  => $data->{'publicationyear'} ? $data->{'publicationyear'} : $data->{'copyrightdate'},
21:30 cait what I wanted to do is if publicatonyear has data, use it, otherwise use copyrightdate
21:30 chris that should work yes
21:30 cait cool :)
21:33 jcamins I'm going to follow jwagner's example.
21:34 jcamins Good luck.
21:34 jcamins is now known as jcamins_a
21:38 cait hm isbn is broken again :(...
21:44 JeremyLC with auth-by-bind enabled I can successfully bind with the user-supplied credentials and still be  told the username or password is invalid because the account cannot be looked up in the directory, this despite the fact that I have replication AND updating disabled (it shouldn't be looking me up, only authenticating)
21:44 cait and now publicaton year does not work
21:44 cait should go to bed
21:45 cait chris: thx for all your help - learned a bit more about perl :)
21:45 chris you really need a warn in there before you do the transform
21:45 chris to check what is in orderinfo .. then we can track the problem down properly
21:45 chris but get some sleep :)
21:48 cait at least the data is now saved in the marc record
21:48 chris yup
21:49 cait display problems... perhaps I can live with that until tomorrow
21:49 cait good night all :)
21:51 russ joined #koha
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21:59 cait chris: the publication year of my new records is not saved to copyrightdate or publicatonyear - so it can not be displayed :(
21:59 cait hope I will find out tomorrow
21:59 cait really leaving now :)
21:59 cait bye
21:59 cait left #koha
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23:04 chilts joined #koha
23:04 chilts morning all
23:05 chris hey chilts
23:05 chilts :)
23:05 chris how was takaka?
23:05 chilts good, apart from Sunday (wet and rain), it's hotter there than Wgtn is in the summer though :)
23:05 chilts saw the nieces and nephew lots, so that was fun
23:06 chris cool
23:06 chilts how goes it in Koha land?
23:06 chris busy, but good ;)
23:06 brendan joined #koha
23:06 chilts good :)
23:08 * chilts now has less than 10 irc channels open :)
23:44 imp chilts: using irssi?
23:45 chilts yep, it's all working now :)
23:46 chilts got my auto joins up and going and now have a small and simple config
23:46 imp hit esc and the one from {q,w,e,r,t,z} ;) -> window 11-15
23:47 chilts yep, know that one :)
23:47 imp ok :)
23:47 chilts just commenting that my list is now a lot smaller than it used to be
23:47 chilts back later

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