IRC log for #koha, 2010-03-18

All times shown according to UTC.

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06:40 Ropuch Morning #koha
07:13 chris hi Ropuch
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11:44 chris_n g'morning #koha
11:45 jwagner Morning, chris_n
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12:08 rhcl I thought I'd be the first person to log on this morning.
12:08 jwagner Nope.
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12:09 rhcl Well, I'm an hour different from you.
12:10 jwagner But those earlybird Europeans have us all beat :-)
12:10 rhcl I need the waitress to bring me some coffee.
12:10 * jdavidb wonders how rhcl got a gig with waitresses.
12:10 jdavidb We don't have any of those in our office here.
12:10 rhcl Yea, our library has waitresses for the staff.
12:11 rhcl Free coffee, lots of other amenities.
12:11 * jwagner thinks we need to have a discussion about amenities with our bosses....
12:11 jdavidb jwagner++
12:12 rhcl We're working on a fitness center with swimming pool, but that's going to be a hard one to swing.
12:12 jwagner Way back in my first library job, I kept suggesting that they turn the rare book room into a library staff spa, complete with hot tub.  They didn't listen to me :-(
12:12 jdavidb rhcl, knowing your library as I do, I'm kinda wondering where they'd *put* it.
12:13 * collum just wants a window.
12:13 rhcl Well, yea, of course we'd need to buy a new building.
12:13 jdavidb might build onto the back of the one you've got, away from the street frontage, maybe?  I don't know what's back there.
12:13 rhcl or kick out all the books downstairs
12:14 rhcl nothing in back.
12:14 * jdavidb wonders if rhcl's building was built by hobbits.  "Nassssty little hobbitsessss..."
12:15 rhcl No, it was build to some massive standards originally to support a paint store, one of the primary tenants
12:15 rhcl the floor is doubly reinforced to support the weight of xxx gallons of paint
12:16 jdavidb The whole notched-into-a-hill thing is just cool as heck, though, even though it doesn't give the library proper main-street frontage.  I was a little confused when I showed up there and saw the door where I came in..  ;-)
12:18 rhcl Yea, that's a common thought. We actually own the whole building, and would like someday to expand into all of our rented spaces, including the paint store.
12:18 rhcl That would give us all the upstairs too, which would be a better presentation.
12:19 jdavidb yep.  That's the first time I'd seen a Friends bookstore right there in the building, tho, and that was nifty, too.  Our Friends of the PL here has two standalone bookstores, plus a shelf or two at each branch, I think.
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12:25 jwagner OPAC search question for folks.  When you display a title now with XSLT, and the Related Subjects has an entry like College teachers -- United States -- Periodicals, the hyperlinked subject search only goes against the first part (College teachers in this case).  One of my sites wants it to go against all the subfields.  Would that be generally useful?
12:26 owen There is a bug for that already I'm pretty sure
12:27 jwagner So there is, Bug 4276
12:27 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4276 critical, P5, ---,, NEW, "Related subjects" search is OPAC doesn't work with chained subject terms
12:27 jwagner OK, I'll work on that one separately from the other changes I'm doing for them, & see if I can come up with a fix.
12:33 collum jwagner: I looked at that a couple of weeks ago.  The display is easy, but I believe the other subfields in the subject heading need to be indexed.
12:33 collum I've never played with indexing.
12:34 jwagner collum, I hadn't thought to check the subfield indexing; I will. Thanks.
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13:19 biglego good morning, I installed the latest koha 3.01 as of 3 weeks ago.  I'm wanting to update to the latest version is the command just 'git fetch' other than load data i've made not changes to commit back, which i'd be asking how to do that as well right now
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13:28 biglego okay dummy me it was just a matter of understanding what I was reading 'git pull', do I now just rerun MakeFile.PL, make, make test, make install?
13:32 hdl_laptop you only have to do updatedatabase, and updates your translation
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13:49 biglego hdl_laptop, apologies but I'm not following.  I'm thinking you are assuming I did the dev installation, i performed a standard installation.
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13:49 hdl_laptop oh.
13:57 biglego so I'm thinking stop apache, and zebra daemons, MakeFile.PL, make, make test, make install, then run updatedatabase?  Restart the daemons and life should be good?
13:58 gmcharlt biglego: there is a make update target you can use - see the INSTALL doc for details
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14:03 biglego thanks I think that answers my question
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14:54 nengard jwagner around?
14:59 chris_n she's probably on chocolate break :)
14:59 sekjal mmmm, chocolate
15:06 jwagner No, have been eyeballs-deep in a lot of stuff.  I WISH I had a chocolate break!
15:06 * jwagner thinks about a trip to the vending machine.
15:08 jwagner nengard, did you need me for something?
15:09 nengard I did - but I think I got it - was documenting the new features added in the fix for bug 3482
15:09 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3482 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---,, NEW, Print overdue and hold notices for patrons without email addresses
15:09 nengard I think I got it all - and will commit it now and you can check my work :)
15:11 nengard one thing for you or jdavidb - there is no perldoc for
15:11 hdl_laptop jwagner: anychance one of you checks the patches I sent about that ?
15:12 jwagner OK.  We also need to check that commit -- we added one more piece to it, but I'm not sure if that was before the git pull request or after.
15:12 jwagner hdl_laptop, I'll test it as soon as I get a chance, and also see if we need to update with the last thing we added.  FYI, that was a syspref to allow sites to specify how many items to list on the print notices.
15:12 nengard can you give me a one liner on what does?
15:13 jwagner That's intended for sites using z-mailers where they have to limit the page length.
15:13 hdl_laptop good
15:13 jwagner nengard, there are two parts of print notices.  For regular overdue notices, the print piece is incorporated into the overdues script and print notices are generated there.  However, hold notices don't go through a script -- Koha generates them immediately.
15:14 nengard jwagner so the script is only for hold notices?
15:14 jwagner the gather_print_notices script runs nightly and looks through the message queue.  If there was no email address for a patron, & thus the regular hold notice couldn't go, it grabs them & generates a print notice based on the HOLD_PRINT notice file.
15:14 wizzyrea ooh jane that's a cool feature
15:15 wizzyrea does that supercede some of the koha extras stuff that right now is an addon to koha?
15:15 jwagner Both sets of notices are wrapped in <pre> tags so the layout in the notice setup is used (lines down, spacing across, etc.).  The scripts also do a page break between notices -- the output is an html file that staff call up & print, so this means one notice per page.
15:16 jwagner wizzyrea, I'm not familiar with the koha extras stuff -- what are you referring to?
15:16 nengard thanks!!
15:16 nengard okay I'll write this up and then send you the link
15:17 jwagner nengard, I've been working on internal documentation, including screen shots, for all our features.  That's the documentation meant for library staff; it should probably be incorporated into your manual as well.
15:17 nengard great - you can send it to me as a patch or an email
15:18 jwagner It's a humongous Word document right now -- how about I send you pieces as stuff gets added :-)  It's still under construction.
15:18 nengard jwagner - here's what I wrote:[…]839712fe6f2a72d96
15:19 nengard some of the updates in there were just spacing issues - but you should be able to find the stuff I wrote
15:20 jwagner Looks like that syspref did make it in, but we'll still check the head version.  For the writeup on the syspref, it needs to be modified (I didn't understand it properly originally).  Use:
15:20 jwagner the print notice script will only print the number of items in that syspref and truncate the list of items at that point, with a note that the patron should check the full list of overdues in the OPAC.  Calculate that figure by counting number of lines in your notice text.  Then decide how many lines/items can print and still stay within the page length.  This setting only affects print notices.
15:21 jwagner So the syspref is the number of _items_ that should be included, not the total page length.
15:22 jwagner nengard, what's your email address?  I'll send you that part of the writeup with screen shots.
15:22 nengard
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15:34 jwagner nengard, note that the screen shot shows a <pre> tag in the notice text, but it's not necessary to include it there.  It's in the script (so that no one accidentally removes it when editing the notice text).
15:35 nengard k
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15:47 rhcl Do you have to catalog from the managed file or can you catalog from the circ catalog? When you do a search from the circ search nothing shows up until you have a full record. (you have to go into edit to save the record).
16:05 jwagner rhcl managed file = reservoir?
16:11 wizzyrea ok peeps, I need a list of Frequently Asked questions re: koha
16:11 wizzyrea are they on the wiki?
16:11 wizzyrea (working on the website)
16:12 gmcharlt wizzyrea: there is FAQ-like material there, I'm sure, but I don't think anybody's done a full FAQ in quite a while
16:12 jwagner wizzyrea, from which perspective?  Admins?  Library staff?  Patrons?
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16:30 wizzyrea all of the above
16:30 wizzyrea want different sections
16:30 wizzyrea nengard, as docmanager do you want to help with this project?
16:31 wizzyrea I mean, i can think of questions like "I can't search, why?"
16:31 wizzyrea I want to customize X, can I? How?
16:32 wizzyrea where x = something specific like UI
16:32 nengard what project? sorry was away
16:34 nengard wizzyrea - there are old faqs here:
16:34 nengard a lot i pulled together from messages on the mailing list
16:34 nengard i haven't gotten them all into the new manual yet
16:34 nengard but some are here:[…]-manual/?ch=a9503
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16:37 nengard i am also up for working on a different style of FAQ if that will help people more!!
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16:41 gmcharlt regarding jwagner's comment, having different types of FAQs makes sense to me
16:41 gmcharlt and an FAQ for patrons of Koha libraries would be a novelty
16:44 nengard we can probably find an FAQ plugin for WP and add it to the koha site
16:44 gmcharlt +1
16:47 SJeffery One day someone will put a default framework of "Brief record" in and make my life a whole lot easier.
16:47 jwagner That would be useful.  I can probably come up with some questions/answers whenever I have some of that mythical free time....
16:48 jwagner SJeffery, there is one in the latest code (Fast Add)
16:48 SJeffery Free time. I have heard of that. Isn't that what we get when we retire (which is about six weeks before we keel over)?
16:49 jwagner I _HOPE_ not....
16:49 SJeffery What code? Development or production?
16:49 jwagner is now known as jwagner_lunch
16:49 gmcharlt SJeffery: current HEAD
16:50 SJeffery I have no idea what HEAD means in this context.
16:52 gmcharlt sorry, the current development version
16:52 wizzyrea nengard: that part is already done
16:52 wizzyrea I just need the content
16:52 nengard oh the faq plugin?
16:52 nengard k - well i gave you links to lots of content i already have compiled
16:52 nengard we just have to copy paste
16:53 SJeffery Any idea when that version will go into production (roughly)? I will hold up deployment if it is soonish.
16:53 nengard or find a way to scrape it
16:53 wizzyrea sweet, thanks for the links nengard
16:53 nengard np :)
16:53 nengard i can help move them over
16:53 wizzyrea yea, let me do a little setup on it this afternoon and then we can start that project in earnest
16:53 nengard okey dokey
16:54 wizzyrea and I lurve the idea of a faq for patrons
16:54 gmcharlt SJeffery: beta for that version should be out in a cuople weeks, but it's possible to extract and aply the fast-add template sooner than that
16:54 gmcharlt as long as you have a version of Koha that's post-3.0.0
16:55 wizzyrea it has it's flummoxing quirks, and it might be nice to include a link to the general patron faq on the default OPAC somewhere
17:00 owen-away is now known as owen
17:01 nengard wizzyrea - as long as we make it clear that the faq is written assuming koha is set to the default
17:01 nengard i've seen lots of customizations that might make a patron faq confusing :)
17:08 wizzyrea yea, it ought to be a preference to show it or not. Maybe put it on the default Nav area instead of the "put your text here" notice that's on current new installations
17:08 wizzyrea Actually, yes, I like that
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17:22 owen gmcharlt: Is it still your plan to remove Rotating collections from 3.2?
17:22 gmcharlt owen: yes, or at least disable it for now
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17:42 rhcl test
17:42 jwagner rhcl, pass/fail or a grade?
17:44 jdavidb @quote random
17:44 munin jdavidb: Quote #69: "<schuster> Now if I could only figure out how to control those daemons... or at least the ones in my head..." (added by jwagner at 10:02 AM, March 17, 2010)
17:45 jdavidb @karma jdavidb
17:45 munin jdavidb: Karma for "jdavidb" has been increased 18 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 18.
17:45 jdavidb @karma jwagner
17:45 munin jdavidb: Karma for "jwagner" has been increased 22 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 22.
17:45 * jwagner snickers
17:45 * jdavidb grumps a little.
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17:55 nengard hehe
17:56 nengard now children :) let's behave :)
17:56 jwagner Who, us????
17:57 nengard hehe
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18:37 jwagner @wunder 20817
18:37 munin jwagner: The current temperature in Langley Fork Park, McLean, Virginia is 21.2�C (2:36 PM EDT on March 18, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 25%. Dew Point: 0.0�C. Pressure: 29.82 in 1009.7 hPa (Rising).
18:37 * jwagner sings "it's a beautiful day in the neighborhood, a beautiful day in the neighborhood"
18:42 moodaepo @wunder 56001
18:42 munin moodaepo: The current temperature in South on Monks, Mankato, Minnesota is 13.6�C (1:36 PM CDT on March 18, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 57%. Dew Point: 6.0�C. Pressure: 29.89 in 1012.1 hPa (Falling).
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19:07 wizzyrea nengard: do you have a sec?
19:08 nengard yup
19:08 wizzyrea do you want the faq's all on one page or links to individual pages, I can't decide which is better
19:08 wizzyrea (all on one page is how it is now)
19:09 nengard i want them findable :)
19:09 * owen gets in line to speak to nengard
19:09 nengard If the plugin is part of wordpress then they'll be searchable
19:09 nengard so i think whatever looks the least scary is best
19:09 nengard maybe having different pages for categories makes sense
19:09 nengard anyone else have an opinion?
19:09 wizzyrea ok, well look at this
19:10 wizzyrea
19:10 wizzyrea so installing/upgrading is how the faq plugin displays them
19:10 wizzyrea the other categories haven't been populated yet
19:10 gmcharlt it's a balancing act - one question per page would be annoying, but 100 questions on a page would be scary
19:10 nengard why not a category per page
19:11 gmcharlt that works
19:11 wizzyrea that's what I was thinking, see below where it says "acquisitions, administration
19:11 nengard also - i did a search and the faq don't seem to be in the search ... which might mean we want to make it as easy as possible to navigate
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19:11 wizzyrea ok, so look at this then
19:11 wizzyrea one minute
19:12 wizzyrea ok, click that same link again
19:12 owen nengard: I think I have a fix for Bug 4173, but I have a question
19:12 nengard while she does that - what does owen need?
19:12 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4173 normal, P5, ---,, NEW, Statuses not appearing in the OPAC
19:13 owen In particular,  a fix to show Use Restrictions
19:13 nengard wizzyrea - yeah i think that makes sense
19:13 nengard and owen - clicking now
19:13 wizzyrea (remember, installing/upgrading is the only one with any populated questions
19:13 wizzyrea )
19:13 nengard owen - great - what's the question?
19:13 owen Since setting a value for Use Restrictions doesn't affect the availability of the item, I'm assuming it should display alongside the "available" status
19:13 owen Does that sound correct?
19:13 gmcharlt wizzyrea: that works. q though, is the order of the headings strictly alphabetical?
19:14 nengard maybe in parens - yeah
19:14 nengard my reply was to owen
19:14 gmcharlt i.e., installing/upgrading might be best going before the functionality categories
19:14 nengard the librarian in me wants it all alpha :)
19:18 gmcharlt AAA Installation and Upgrade ;)
19:18 nengard LOL
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19:24 bank question anout cron job to rebuild zebra index?
19:24 bank should that be run as root or my koha user?
19:26 oceb koha user
19:26 oceb ;)
19:26 wizzyrea nengard: it should be searchable now
19:27 wizzyrea needed to find a plugin that parsed the shortcode content
19:27 bank ok
19:27 bank that I did but I am getting no search results
19:28 wizzyrea oh it doesn't have to be alphabetical
19:28 wizzyrea sorry I was off making things searchable :P
19:28 wizzyrea in fact, nengard
19:28 nengard off to test :)
19:28 wizzyrea that plugin I did ought to do the manual as well, but I'm not SURE about that.
19:28 wizzyrea maybe not, now that I think about it
19:28 nengard i like the tabs across the top :)
19:29 nengard wizzyrea - yes having the manual searchable is a must - but if we can make it a separate search that would be best
19:29 nengard cause it's hard to search it and the entire koha site at once
19:29 nengard chris recommended a google search
19:30 nengard in the search results - or on the page itself (and then the search results) it would be nice to know that you just found an FAQ
19:30 bank oceb: my tail -f /var/log/syslog shows the (koha) CMD (KOHA_CONF=/home/koha/etc/koha-dev/koha-conf.xml /home/koha/kohaclone/misc/mig​ration_tools/ -b -a -z >/dev/null)
19:33 wizzyrea yea, I was looking at a google search, and I think it would work
19:34 wizzyrea except that I couldn't find the "free" one
19:34 wizzyrea the one I saw cost some (admittedly trivial) amount of money
19:35 wizzyrea gmcharlt: done, inst/upg is 1st in the list, the rest ar alpha
19:36 wizzyrea (and all of the categories aren't in yet, just fyi)
19:36 wizzyrea I wanted to work out the display before I went all crazy like >.>
19:36 gmcharlt question 1: do you want a dev install; answer: yes
19:36 gmcharlt ;)
19:36 wizzyrea roflcopter
19:37 wizzyrea question: enable/disable comments on these pages?
19:37 wizzyrea i like them clean, so off is my preference
19:37 wizzyrea but comments *are* helpful
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19:37 wizzyrea opinions?
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19:38 wizzyrea harro jdavidb
19:38 jdavidb harro wizzyrea!  :D
19:38 gmcharlt imo - if possible, enable comments, but don't show them by default - just show that there are comments that one could click through
19:38 nengard hmmm
19:38 nengard i like gmcharlt's idea
19:38 nengard and we'll have to wait for chris to come on to ask what search he meant
19:38 nengard maybe it was google or another ... i forget now
19:38 wizzyrea hm, that's one I haven't done before, but I'm sure it can be done
19:39 gmcharlt maybe with a statement to the effect that every now and again comments will be incoprorated into the FAQ , then purged
19:39 nengard makes sense
19:39 nengard wizzyrea - probably look at the homepage script - cause it shows the comment count but not the comment text
19:40 wizzyrea Yepper
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19:55 jwagner nengard, I'm catching up with things.  With regard to Bug 4173, how about adding it to the OPAC note display area?  If there's either an OPAC note or a Use Restriction entry in the item area, put it in that column?  That would separate it a bit from all the other status information, which might make it more visible to patrons.
19:55 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4173 normal, P5, ---,, NEW, Statuses not appearing in the OPAC
19:56 nengard jwagner that works too - owen what do you think?
19:56 nengard I'm not picky - it just needs to show
19:57 jwagner From what you were saying, the function of the entry is more like an OPAC note than a real status.
19:57 nengard true
20:03 chris morning
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20:03 jwagner morning chris
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20:05 nelsonf hi brendan et. al.
20:06 sekjal hi, nelsonf.
20:07 nelsonf hi sekjal!  long time.  I'm wearing my code4lib shirt proudly these days
20:09 sekjal most excellent.  I'm hoping to get a drawer-full before my days are done
20:11 nelsonf I have several koha challenges today I'd like to put out there and see if any of ya'll might comment...
20:13 nelsonf one relates to e-mail notifications DUE and PREDUE under advanceMessaging;  the second is how to find and install a patch; the third is that our db seems to be growing and I'm not sure why 24mb to 74mb in 2 months.
20:14 chris right
20:14 chris starting backwards
20:14 chris the db will grow, things like the statistics table, oldissues etc legitimately grow
20:14 chris but things like the sessions table
20:15 chris and the zebraqueue table
20:15 chris need to be cleaned out from time to time
20:15 chris both those tables can get big fast
20:15 nelsonf I guess this could be addressed in the daily crontab?
20:16 chris yup, i think there are some scripts to do it ... can anyone remember?
20:17 gmcharlt misc/cronjobs/
20:18 brendan hey nelsonf
20:18 brendan hi all too
20:19 chris thanks gmcharlt
20:20 nelsonf howdy brendan.  gmcharlt: I'll see if I can find this and then run it manually thru putty the first time?  I don't think it is in our crontab currently.
20:20 gmcharlt that will work
20:20 nelsonf back  in a few... :-)
20:20 jwagner nelsonf, you don't want to run it in the middle of the day because it will kick out anyone who's presently logged in.  Run it manually after/before hours, or cron it for overnight.
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20:21 nelsonf fortunately the patrons are in South Africa,  so now will work just fine!
20:22 jwagner One case where time zones are your friend :-)
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20:51 nelsonf gmcharlt: I'm not finding the at /usr/share/koha/bin/cronjobs  Does another cronjobs folder exist?  I don't seem to have a root  /misc/.. folder.
20:51 gmcharlt nelsonf: what version are you running?
20:52 nelsonf koha
21:00 nelsonf another problem is that I went into crontab -e, but can't seem to close the file with the usual :q! that I learned from you guys at code4lib.  How to close without saving changes (from within putty)?  The file says --- INSERT --- at the bottom.
21:00 SJeffery Anyone know the status of Koha for Windows? Doesn't seem like it has been updated in several years.
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21:01 gmcharlt nelsonf: hit escape, then try saving
21:01 gmcharlt may not be in that version Koha
21:01 nelsonf you are SO right.  Escape worked.
21:02 nelsonf re, can I download and put it in the cronjob folder?
21:03 gmcharlt yes, or upgrade to at least 3.0.4
21:04 nelsonf I would much prefer to upgrade. can I download and run a command or two, or would I need to know more than this?
21:05 nelsonf I think you guys said something about getting into a git stream, so that upgrades become easier...
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21:08 nelsonf also, I'm aware that the need for the patch that I mentioned at the beginning of this conversation would not be necessary as the bug was fixed in a later version.
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21:35 jwagner gmcharlt, still online?
21:36 gmcharlt jwagner: yep
21:36 jwagner See Bug 3164 -- was there ever a revised fix sent?
21:36 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3164 major, P5, ---,, NEW, OPAC-placed holds broken in SingleBranchMode
21:37 gmcharlt not as far as I can tell
21:38 jwagner OK, thanks.
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21:51 Jo hi all
21:52 moodaepo @wunder 56001
21:52 munin moodaepo: The current temperature in South on Monks, Mankato, Minnesota is 15.6�C (4:46 PM CDT on March 18, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 51%. Dew Point: 6.0�C. Pressure: 29.83 in 1010.0 hPa (Falling).
21:54 CGI990 joined #koha
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21:54 CGI990 Hi guys
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21:55 CGI990 I've made a change that's helped my system, but I'm not sure my system is a reliable basis for generalization
21:57 CGI990 Can somebody confirm that the behavior I was experiencing was not unique to my system?
21:58 pastebot "CGI990" at pasted "missing circ error message" (34 lines) at
21:58 wizzyrea what do you guys think about this:
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22:01 CGI990 Have all the wizards gone home?
22:01 wizzyrea the US ones, anyway
22:02 wizzyrea speaking of which
22:02 wizzyrea is now known as wizzyrea_away
22:03 hdl_laptop CGI990: makes sense
22:04 CGI990 Is there somewhere I should put this to get it into wider circulation then?
22:04 gmcharlt CGI990: koha-devel, perhaps
22:05 CGI990 Is that another irc?
22:05 gmcharlt ah, no the koha-devel mailing list
22:06 gmcharlt but that particular issue is also being worked on so that it will be possible to let a loan through with an override if the user has overdues
22:06 gmcharlt or to also allow the current behavior of forbidding such loans outright
22:08 CGI990 It seems to me the idea of a hash for "errors" and a hash for "overrides" isn't a good one.
22:08 CGI990 A hash of circ preferences co-responding to errors seems a better way to go.
22:09 gmcharlt well, it could probably be more flexible, but there are legitamately cases when a loan is in fact impossible
22:09 CGI990 Perhaps, but why make assumptions.  If a library wants to make a policy rule, give them the option.
22:10 CGI990 I suppose that makes configuration more complicated, though
22:11 gmcharlt I'm not disagreeing
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22:39 Fallor joined #koha
22:39 Fallor hi all
23:00 Fallor hmm... nobody here now, obviously
23:00 Fallor so i'm off too
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23:43 chris gmcharlt: about?
23:45 chris GetRenewCount is currently busted
23:46 chris its trying to use renewalsallowed on itemtypes
23:46 chris but we the rest of the renewal code now uses issuingrules
23:46 chris -we
23:46 chris ill try to fix it and send a patch
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