IRC log for #koha, 2010-02-25

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
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02:41 gmcharlt @quote random
02:41 munin gmcharlt: Quote #10: "< pianohacker> You helped start an open source project; clearly your sense of what to avoid to make your life easier has been impaired for a while :)" (added by chris at 03:59 PM, June 23, 2009)
02:44 Genji okay.. can someone give me an understanding of authorities, and how to create a tree of topical terms based on 653 instead of other marc fields?
02:48 brendan Genji are you asking for an understanding of the koha code for authorities or for a definition of what authorities are?
02:48 brendan if you want to add a new authority start with the authority frameworks
02:52 braedon|work Genji: if you are after what authorities are, here is my attempt of an explanation from yesterday:[…]10-02-24#i_399232
03:03 chris afternoon
03:12 wajasu found out what was causing my 16000 imported records to make end with --> [warn] previous transaction didn't reach commit
03:13 chris oh?
03:13 wajasu 1st if fixed 020 (ISBN) datafields that had repeating subfields (i.e multiple $a)
03:13 wajasu then I saw that the 007 control field was marked invalid for length
03:14 chris that'd do it
03:14 wajasu i removed all the 007 fields then successfully imported all 16000 records and worked.
03:15 wajasu now i guess I can figure out which record and why that field is so important.
03:16 wajasu it must influence zebra and cause some inconsistency.
03:17 wajasu i hate that zebra indexing can be taken out by bogus records.
03:17 braedon|work @wunder tauranga nz
03:17 munin braedon|work: The current temperature in Tauranga Aerodrome Aws, New Zealand is 22.0�C (4:00 PM NZDT on February 25, 2010). Conditions: . Humidity: 92%. Dew Point: 21.0�C. Pressure: 29.96 in 1014 hPa (Falling).
03:17 chris well marc is strict
03:17 chris but zebra should just drop that record, not choke
03:18 chris valid marc is valid marc tho, we shouldnt allow invalid records, but we should skip and continue on reindex
03:20 wajasu maybe some sort of validator can be flagged to run at import(or staging) and provide a link/explanation so they can be fixed, and not lost, especially if we know the zebra will choke.
03:21 wajasu and/or a librarian may need to be alerted when zebra isn't committing anymore (via email?)
03:21 chris yep thatd be good
03:22 wajasu maybe a that tails/mointors the log and when it sees certain situations, email the admin.
03:23 chris well the script itself knows an error occured
03:23 wajasu i just now tried the OPAC.  its cool.  (bookfinder, amazon,...)
03:23 chris it doenst have to monitor the logs
03:23 chris it can just do something when it sees an error
03:23 chris ( that is)
03:25 wajasu i was doing, and it kept giving me --> [warn] previous transaction didn't reach commit, which i assume prevents all future indexes to complete from that point on.  Thats why I suggested an alert.
03:25 chris yep, rebuild_zebra should deal with that bettr
03:26 chris i dont think there is a need for another script to monitor rebuild_zebra
03:26 chris since it reported it back to you, so it obviously knows it happened ;-)
03:27 chris when running as a cron job, that could trigger an email alert instead
03:27 chris (doesnt bust the whole index unless you have the -r switch on)
03:27 chris it just doesnt add the new records
03:28 wajasu Oh.  rebuild just needs to know and report which record caused such a problem.  (yes I had -b -r -v 1)
03:28 chris so if it warned the admin that new records have been added that arent valid, the search would keep on working without those records
03:28 chris yep
03:28 chris thats where marclint comes in
03:29 wajasu haven't tried that one yet.
03:29 chris i think mason suggested that yesterday, rebuild_zebra could say, one of you records is invalid run rebuild_zebra with the -k switch to keep the exported records from koha, then run marclint on them
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03:30 wajasu ahh
03:30 amit hi all
03:30 chris hi amit
03:30 amit heya brendan, chris,
03:31 brendan hi amit
03:31 brendan Amit - are you going to new zealand for KohaCon10 ?
03:32 amit not sure
03:34 wajasu i'm happy cause i got the library into koha.  even 952 records showing as items.
03:34 chris sweet
03:34 wajasu i even put 952$8FIC and 952$8NFIC   based on leader 008/33 being 0 or 1   (was that a good idea or not?)
03:34 chris maybe :)
03:35 wajasu CCODE
03:36 wajasu what benefits are there to having the CCODE.  my library is 95% non-fiction.  though some would argue :)
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04:29 brendan night
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07:25 wajasu just to get my research as to why zebraidx/ failed to commit a transaction, it was because the imported marc records had 7 records with  '007  cr\cn-'    as these were [electronic resource] records.  Also, as chris pointed out (I used the -r option with zebraidx).
07:28 wajasu gnight
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08:00 kf good morning
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08:17 wajasu For the record,  if i pull this 019511213X   ISBN from   and import it as part of my marc record file, it causes the zebra transaction to not commit, when it has the '007 cr\cn-' field in it. (and using -b  -v).
08:17 wajasu I am really saying gnight this time.
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08:35 Amit heya kf
08:37 kf hi Amit
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09:42 magnus yaaar - we're all pirates now:[…]llectual-property
09:49 * imp takes a look at the date, rubs his eyes and looks puzzled - whatever they have been drinking...
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10:21 Musab Hi
10:21 Musab Hello
10:24 magnus hi Musab
10:30 Musab Hi
10:30 Musab I'm having a problem
10:30 Musab for the past 2 days
10:30 Musab with Koha virtual image
10:30 Amit hi Musab
10:31 Musab Hi Amit
10:31 Musab with IP address
10:32 Musab I excuted this commans "sudo sh -c "cat /dev/null > /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules"  "
10:32 Musab but still the same problem
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12:27 nengard i'm very annoying this morning - hubby's school district is ignoring the 'SEVERE' winter warning and making him drive in this weather
12:27 nengard wunder @19030
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12:28 nengard hmmm ... did i type that wrong?
12:28 magnus nengard: annoying or annoyed? ;-)
12:28 nengard magnus - see - i'm so ANNOYED I can't type!!
12:28 magnus @wunder 19030
12:28 munin magnus: The current temperature in JAT Observatory, Fairless Hills, Pennsylvania is 0.4�C (7:15 AM EST on February 25, 2010). Conditions: Light Snow. Humidity: 95%. Dew Point: -0.0�C. Windchill: 0.0�C. Pressure: 29.54 in 1000.2 hPa (Rising). Winter Storm Warning in effect until noon EST Friday...
12:29 magnus @wunder bodo, norway
12:29 munin magnus: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is -1.0�C (1:20 PM CET on February 25, 2010). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 75%. Dew Point: -5.0�C. Windchill: -6.0�C. Pressure: 29.50 in 999 hPa (Steady).
12:29 imp @wunder hannover germany
12:29 munin imp: The current temperature in Hannover, Germany is 10.0�C (1:20 PM CET on February 25, 2010). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 71%. Dew Point: 5.0�C. Windchill: 7.0�C. Pressure: 29.39 in 995 hPa (Steady).
12:29 nengard @wunder 19030
12:29 munin nengard: The current temperature in JAT Observatory, Fairless Hills, Pennsylvania is 0.4�C (7:15 AM EST on February 25, 2010). Conditions: Light Snow. Humidity: 95%. Dew Point: -0.0�C. Windchill: 0.0�C. Pressure: 29.54 in 1000.2 hPa (Rising). Winter Storm Warning in effect until noon EST Friday...
12:30 jwagner @wunder 20740
12:30 munin jwagner: The current temperature in Hollywood, College Park, Maryland is 1.4�C (7:29 AM EST on February 25, 2010). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 89%. Dew Point: -0.0�C. Windchill: 0.0�C. Pressure: 29.63 in 1003.3 hPa (Falling).
12:30 * imp declares the weather as broken, 3 days ago it was still around 0
12:31 * magnus takes the dogs out for a short walk in the snow
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13:25 magnus anyone noticed a small problem with sorting by call number in the opac? see hit # 412 here:[…]y=call_number_asc shouldn't that have come before 410 411? can't seem to find a bug for it
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13:27 sekjal magnus: at first blush, it looks like period is 'earlier' than space...
13:28 magnus sekjal: yep, something like that
13:28 gmcharlt magnus: an oops, for sure
13:29 gmcharlt file a bug if you can reproduce it in a HEAD database
13:29 sekjal I'll see if I can it again in the same catalog on another set of records
13:29 magnus gmcharlt: i'll check in HEAD
13:30 jwagner We've seen a problem with the way Koha sets up the call number sort field -- jdavidb has been looking at that.  I think that's what's happening here.
13:32 sekjal again around records 33 and 34:[…]y=call_number_asc
13:33 owen Uh oh, I come in and find my catalog being used as an example. That could be good or bad.
13:33 * gmcharlt wonders what items.cn_sort looks like for those two records
13:33 owen I can tell you gmcharlt. Which two?
13:33 owen 33 and 34?
13:33 gmcharlt owen: your catalog has been abusing the nice decimal system invented by Dui - shame, shame
13:33 gmcharlt in that result set, yes
13:34 jdavidb @quote random
13:34 munin jdavidb: Quote #20: "<wizzyrea> you will see no wedgie-ing from me" (added by jdavidb at 11:50 AM, July 31, 2009)
13:35 owen items.cn_sort is 158.1 Sk and 158 Ho, respectively.
13:35 gmcharlt oy
13:35 gmcharlt what about items.class_source
13:36 gmcharlt er, cn_source
13:36 owen NULL for both
13:37 gmcharlt try setting that to ddc in the item editor and saving them
13:37 jwagner The problem we saw is for LC call numbers, but it might be similar in Dewey.  The system pads only the first segment of the call number, not all segments.  So the first segment of cn_sort sorts OK, but the rest don't.
13:40 owen Records updated
13:40 gmcharlt jwagner: I see that too
13:41 magnus harrumph - now i can't even get the call numbers to display in list view (on HEAD), is there a syspref for that that i can't find?
13:41 magnus s/list view/result view/
13:42 gmcharlt magnus:  OPACItemsResultsDisplay
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13:45 magnus gmcharlt: thanks!
13:46 owen I see the same sort problem in HEAD
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13:53 magnus i have a problem with  OPACItemsResultsDisplay - it doesn't do anything! The options are "Show/Don't show an item's branch, location and call number in OPAC search results." but when i check in mysql it says "options: statuses|itemdetails". The syspref toggels value between 1 and empty, but it should be setting it to statuses or itemdetails?
13:56 magnus i did "update systempreferences set value = 'itemdetails' where variable = 'OPACItemsResultsDisplay';" and now the call numbers are displayed
13:56 nengard acq question - when adding a fund - what do i enter in encumbrance and expenditure?
13:58 gmcharlt nengard: checking, but probably nothing
13:58 nengard k .... so why do we want them on the add form?
13:58 nengard :)
13:59 owen I don't see OPACItemsResultsDisplay in opac.pref. Isn't that where it should be?
14:00 magnus owen: the category in the staff client is searching, not opac
14:00 gmcharlt magnus: good catch - definition of OPACItemsResultsDisplay is wrong in searching.pref
14:01 magnus i havn't had the time to look at those .pref files yet, but if you say so... ;-)
14:03 magnus and i have the same sorting problem in HEAD:[…]number_asc&addto=
14:03 magnus i'll file a bug
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14:08 gmcharlt nengard: hmm, the budget expenditure and encumbrance fields don't do anything at all
14:08 * gmcharlt scratches head
14:08 gmcharlt hdl_laptop^^
14:08 nengard k - bug report time?
14:09 gmcharlt yep
14:09 hdl_laptop ?
14:09 gmcharlt are aqbudgets.budget_encum and budget_expend supposed to do anything?
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14:10 hdl_laptop they are there to store the encumbrance and expenditure of your budget.
14:10 hdl_laptop (assuming it is not a root budget.
14:10 hdl_laptop )
14:10 gmcharlt guessed as much
14:11 gmcharlt but I see no code that actually updates them as orders get placed and invoiced
14:11 hdl_laptop You can then check against those figures that you enforce that.
14:11 hdl_laptop Well it is for budget planning.
14:12 hilongo Hello everyone  :)
14:12 nengard but it's on the 'add fund' form ... it doesn't show on the budget planning form...
14:12 gmcharlt so they're supposed to be maximum  expenditure and encumbrance limits?
14:12 hdl_laptop I want to spend 10% of my root budget on that part.
14:12 hdl_laptop gmcharlt: yes.
14:12 hdl_laptop nengard: sorry I may not be uptodate in vocabulary
14:12 gmcharlt functional gap there - limits that don't get enforced aren't limits at all
14:13 hdl_laptop there should be a warning when you try to spend more.
14:13 hdl_laptop I thought it had been done.
14:14 hilongo hdl_laptop: hi hdl .. I was asking about icu indexing method and I was told that you are THE ONE to ask  ... :)
14:14 hdl_laptop too bad if there is only one person to enswer you :P
14:15 nengard hdl_laptop gmcharlt i'll just put a bug in with this discussion so that it can be investigated further
14:15 hilongo hdl_laptop: yes ... but at least there is one :)
14:15 hdl_laptop can assign that to me
14:15 gmcharlt hdl_laptop: looks like aqbudgets.budget_amount is checked
14:16 gmcharlt but not budget_encum or budget_expend
14:16 hdl_laptop I will discuss with paul
14:16 hdl_laptop because encum and expenditure are used for amount calculation
14:17 gmcharlt amounts ordered or invoiced and paid are used
14:17 gmcharlt but those two columns in acqbudgets aren't used
14:18 gmcharlt and there are actually several different ways encumbrance and expenditure limits for a budget could be set
14:18 gmcharlt based on experience with other acq systems
14:18 gmcharlt e.g., as percentage of the budget amount
14:18 gmcharlt or absolute amounts
14:18 gmcharlt and there could be staff user consequences, e.g., whether one is allowed to override such a limit
14:19 nengard remember there is a budget planning page - i assume that controls the percents/amounts spent
14:19 nengard cgi-bin/koha/admin/​dget_period_id=1&authcat=MONTHS
14:19 gmcharlt good question - does it control it in the sense of setting limits or warning the operator if the plan is exceeded?
14:20 nengard no clue - haven't tested that far - cause this whole thing confuses the heck out of me :)
14:20 nengard I've never been good with numbers - and I've never done aq in real life ... so it's all new to me
14:26 nengard k - time to get organized for training - hope I can explain acq clearly ...
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14:37 wizzyrea good morning
14:37 gmcharlt hi wizzyrea
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14:37 nengard i'm back - had a question in yesterday's training that i haven't seen an answer to -- anyone know how to answer this?
14:37 nengard When you change the Authorized Value flag on a tag, what (if anything)
14:37 nengard will be done to existing records that use that have an unauthorized
14:37 nengard value?
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14:39 owen nengard: You're talking about a MARC tag right?
14:39 nengard yes
14:39 gmcharlt nengard: nothing happens to them
14:40 nengard k
14:40 nengard so they keep their old values
14:40 gmcharlt correct
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14:40 ebegin good morning.
14:41 ebegin chris, around?
14:41 owen too early for chris I suspect
14:41 nengard k - going to train now
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14:41 ebegin am i the only one having a problem with
14:42 gmcharlt ebegin: nope, I checked and see the error messages
14:42 ebegin ok.  thanks.
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14:52 hilongo hdl_laptop: I sent you an e-mail explaining my problem with zebra index to see if icu method would solve it ... did you get it or was it lost in the ethereal world?
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15:20 adegroff good morning all
15:21 gmcharlt hi adegroff
15:21 owen Hi adegroff
15:22 * owen reluctantly wades into some YUI js
15:23 hilongo hello adegroff
15:31 brendan morning adegroff
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16:39 jwagner hdl_laptop, still online?
16:39 hdl_laptop jwagner ?
16:40 jwagner I was looking at doing a patch for a problem I had with import patrons, the instructions for loading patron_attributes.  However, when I look at current head, that field isn't in the sample csv file.  Did you remove it?
16:41 jwagner Oops, never mind -- looks like it doesn't show up unless patron attributes is enabled.
16:41 hdl_laptop it seems quite sensible
16:42 * jwagner crawls back into my cave....
16:44 * hdl_laptop imagines jwagner in her batcave
16:47 * jwagner makes bat noises -- Eeeek Eeeeek
16:49 wizzyrea well she is a superhero after all
16:49 jwagner Me?  REALLY???
16:49 jwagner What you been smokin' wizzyrea???
16:49 hdl_laptop you have your name in the Koha History.
16:49 * owen is feeling like stuporhero today
16:49 wizzyrea lol owen
16:49 wizzyrea PAC! MARC!
16:50 jwagner owen, on the other hand, really IS a superhero.  Leaps .css files and jqueries in a single bound!
16:50 gmcharlt capes for all!
16:51 nengard we should sell capes at the conference :)
16:51 jwagner No capes!  No capes!  (see The Incredibles)
16:51 nengard we can all buy a koha cape :)
16:51 * owen is sucked into a vortex
16:52 jwagner Better than being sucked into a jet engine....
16:52 * collum would wear a cape, but draws the line at tights.
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16:56 wizzyrea lol, I would pay to see you all in capes
16:57 nengard no no - you too!!
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17:08 wizzyrea ok, by popular demand:[…]ha-community-org/
17:08 wizzyrea but please read the instructions if you have already created an account
17:08 wizzyrea :)
17:10 gmcharlt wizzyrea++
17:14 wizzyrea for that matter I would pay to see collum in tights
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17:19 gmcharlt htting the road - bbl
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17:32 wizzyrea have any of you ever seen a problem where one item is scanned, but another comes up? And if you have, was it 1. the barcode 2. the scanner or 3. the software
17:33 wizzyrea or 4. something else
17:34 jdavidb 4.  Phase of the moon?        4.  Clueless User Tricks?
17:35 jdavidb The only time I've had any similar issue, I got "item not found" in ever cause, because of the auto-prefixing settings on the scanner being wrong.  Otherwise, It Just Works.
17:39 ebegin Quick question: is the hold on a specific future date is available in 3.0.x or this is a feature in 3.2?
17:41 jwagner hdl_laptop, still online?
17:42 hdl_laptop yes
17:42 hdl_laptop ebegin: 3.2 iirc
17:43 ebegin ok, thank henry
17:43 ebegin damien :)
17:43 jwagner hdl_laptop, can you take a quick look at Bug 4210?  I think I've found where to patch that problem in current head, but it's a big code change from 3.01.  Want you to confirm it.
17:43 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4210 minor, P5, ---,, ASSIGNED, Acquisitions suggestion templates have library name field, but data is not passed
17:44 owen Man, Koha Express customers are really getting the finger from LibLime.
17:44 wizzyrea ...yea
17:45 wizzyrea buy this! We'll support you! <library buys>
17:45 hdl_laptop jwagner: In my opinion, you should get the library name from the branchcode of the borrower.
17:45 hdl_laptop Not the "Libraryname.
17:45 hdl_laptop But I may be wrong.
17:45 wizzyrea ?LL laughs evilly?
17:46 wizzyrea idk what they're thinking
17:46 jwagner hdl_laptop, so it should be the branchcode description?
17:47 jwagner A lot of U.S. libraries do central ordering, so it's the main branch who'll be dealing with the purchase.  Also, it might be easier to pull it from the syspref than to do a join to get the description.  (I could be wrong on that, of course...)
17:49 jwagner At any rate, am I in the right section of code?
17:50 hdl_laptop jwagner: is it to add LibraryName to the letter or to the screen ?
17:51 hdl_laptop $template->param is for screen display
17:51 jwagner The templates for the emails that are supposed to be sent to the users when suggestions are acted on have lines like Dear <!-- TMPL_VAR NAME="LibraryName" --> user,
17:51 jwagner But there's no value being passed for LibraryName.  That's what I'm trying to fix.
17:51 hdl_laptop For Letter you would change parameters added to EnqueueLetter
17:52 hdl_laptop And add Libraryname to that.
17:52 jwagner Found it, in -- I'll add it there.  Thanks.
17:53 jwagner There's still a problem with those emails not getting sent out -- I'll create a bug report on that.  Assign to you?
17:54 chris horrendous_customer_service_r​uining_it_for_everyone_else--
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17:56 chris pootle is starting to annoy me slightly, fixed again
17:57 cait hi chris
17:58 cait good evening #koha
17:58 jdavidb Hi, chris and cait.  :)
17:58 chris hi jdavidb
17:58 cait hi jdavidb :)
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18:02 * jdavidb noticed in the news that Twitter is moving from MySQL to Cassandra, and wonders how that'd work for Koha.  The mind boggles.
18:03 * jwagner predicts tragedy but no one believes me....
18:04 chris heh
18:04 chris cassandra is cool as hell, but what it isnt is a relational db
18:04 chris it could be done, but itd be years of work
18:05 jdavidb The whole data model would have to change, first, then every.  single.  query redone, to account for it.
18:05 chris yup
18:06 chris twitter use a db as a straight data store, cassandra wins
18:06 chris cluster of redundant nodes = win
18:07 chris we could use cassandra for sessions
18:07 chris easy peasy
18:07 jdavidb I'm having trouble wrapping my brain around the conceptual model; like the relationship between an item and a patron (which we do in the issues table)..  it almost looks like you'd *move* the item data over to "live" with the patron, until the item is returned.
18:07 chris and things like the logs, statistics etc
18:08 chris yeah, its a mind shift, and for things like issues, i thnk relational actually works better
18:09 jdavidb A couple of my concerns relate to single-point-of-failure and choke-point problems in the current structre of things.  Extra mysqls and apaches are not a huge problem, and I've got something I want to test with our ops folks on zebra.
18:10 chris you can have multi zebras too
18:10 chris mason has that set up at kapiti
18:11 chris you have to edit
18:11 chris and that edited one connects to the slave db
18:12 chris and it goes all the rows in zebraqueue marked 1 (indexed by primary zebra)
18:12 chris ill index, and mark 2
18:12 chris and so on, and so forth
18:12 jdavidb oooo...that's clever.
18:12 jdavidb Then use DNS round-robining, or a proxy, to divvy up the reads.
18:13 chris pazpar2 even
18:13 chris but yeah round robin, or an nginx, or someother load balancer
18:14 * jdavidb makes some notes
18:14 chris what kapiti have, is a totally realtime replication going to another server, mysql and zebra, so they have full DR
18:14 jdavidb chris++
18:14 chris but you could easily make that into a load sharing system
18:17 wajasu futher testing with what make zebra stop indexing.  I have a lone record that just has a 007 controlfield.
18:18 chris you should run that file through marclint and see what it says about it
18:18 wajasu if i run it with -b -k -s -d /tmp/wcEwUsBdCX -v 1
18:18 wajasu ok i'll try marclint
18:19 wajasu i perused marclint and i didn't see any code that looks at 007
18:19 wajasu but i'll try it.
18:19 chris marcdump might give a nice error message too
18:19 wajasu mercedit does, and complains about the length of the field
18:19 chris someone who knows the marc standard can probably tell you why its invalid marc better than me :)
18:20 chris ah that would be righ
18:20 chris t
18:20 chris marc has lots of fixed length fields
18:20 wajasu i noticed that it is an olcl [electronic resource] record (and available at
18:21 wajasu marcdump said no errors
18:24 chris i think you need to find a cataloguer :)
18:24 chris ok time to start getting ready for work
18:24 chris have a 9am meeting to talk about koha servers
18:25 wajasu marclint says no errors
18:25 schuster Did you have a MARC question?  I don't wear the hat, but understand it as a librarian generally.
18:26 wajasu it just the presence of having an 007 that make zerba index with no results, and that warning, so it doesn't commit its transactions from that point on.
18:26 chris i dont think so, i have records with 007
18:26 chris that index
18:27 schuster I have thousands of records with 007's and they index fine so I suspect there is a problem with the records
18:27 chris *snap*
18:27 schuster Have you used marcEdit?  It has a verify marc option that tells you about irregularities with your records that you can fix.
18:27 schuster Or should I say need to be fixed.
18:28 chris http://www.library.northwester[…]marc007.html#007c
18:28 wajasu yes, i used marcedit and when i remove the 007 field, then zebra will index and commit the transaction, otherwise it fails.
18:28 chris 007 has some complicated rules
18:28 chris yeah, cos your 007 is invalid
18:28 schuster Really large records can break indexing as well - then I suspect there is an error in one or several of the 007 fields in the MARC.
18:29 wajasu my 007 is:    007 cr\cn-          where \=blank.
18:29 schuster If you take ONE record with the 007 and run it through marcedit and marcverify what does marc edit tell you about the record?
18:29 wajasu - is undefined
18:29 chris The data elements in field 007 are positionally defined and the number of character positions in field 007 depends upon the code contained in 007/00. Character position 00 contains a code that identifies the category of material.
18:30 wajasu it complains about the 007 field length
18:30 Ropuch Evening #koha
18:30 chris bbiab
18:31 wajasu
18:31 schuster pulling up a record be back in a minute
18:31 wajasu i looked at the def or a computer file (i.e. c), which is what I have.
18:32 schuster =007  vfumgaizs\\\  - this is a record in MarcEdit and the 007 field.
18:33 wajasu do you have any 007/00 = c?
18:33 schuster position 00 in my example is actually the v
18:33 wajasu these are for electronic books (i.e. online) that are turning up
18:34 schuster just a minute
18:35 wajasu change your 007 to what I mentioned, import it, or try to rebuild from a directory on it and you will see what i mean.
18:35 schuster cr un ---uuuua  - this is an 007 currently in my Koha database for an ebook.
18:35 wajasu if someone imports just one of these, through a z39.50 search during the day, all rebuild indexing stops from then on.
18:36 schuster 007/00 with a c
18:36 wajasu i'll try that in mine.
18:36 schuster have to go eat lunch otherwise it will be time to do home!
18:42 collum left #koha
18:42 wajasu that worked
18:43 wajasu now i see that the 007 i have is missing 06-13 fields
18:43 owen wizzyrea: I've just been told by my staff that they've seen this issue of one thing getting scanned and another thing getting checked in
18:44 owen And they add, oh by the way, that it happens all the time. I guess no one thought it might be worth mentioning.
18:46 Nate joined #koha
18:47 chris owen: and there is definitely not duplicate barcodes in the db?
18:47 owen No, the barcode of the item which gets checked in is different than the barcode which was just scanned.
18:48 owen The only thing I can't confirm definitively is that the scan was correct.
18:49 chris right, and if you type the barcode in, it works ok?
18:49 owen Yes, and I tried scanning that same barcode ten times in sequence and couldn't reproduce the problem.
18:49 chris and can you confirm that the item scanned wasnt checked in in the db? One theorem i have is it checks it in, and someone else checks something in, and you see what they checked in, and vice versa
18:49 chris so a reporting problem
18:50 chris or you both see what the other checked in
18:50 chris lemme check the code to see how we choose what to display
18:50 owen The item scanned was on the holds waiting shelf, so it wasn't checked out at the time
18:52 chris ohh
18:52 chris i wonder if its to do with that
18:52 * chris is just guessing, kinda hard if we cant reproduce it :(
18:53 jwagner hdl_laptop, still online? (again...)
18:53 adegroff joined #koha
18:54 jwagner nengard, what about you -- online?
18:56 nengard online - but about to go into a call - will read back what i'm being asked later
18:56 jwagner I'll do a bug report -- something changed in head but I'm not sure if it's a bug or a feature :-)
18:58 chris ok bus time
18:59 jwagner @later tell hdl_laptop see Bug 4274 -- is this one of your changes, and is it intentional?
18:59 munin jwagner: The operation succeeded.
19:00 jwagner nengard or anyone else, Bug 4274 has to do with emailing the cart at current head.
19:00 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4274 minor, P5, ---,, NEW, Cart now requires login before emailing contents
19:03 nengard left #koha
19:03 cait jwagner: its a feature, but im not sure I like it
19:04 jwagner I think at least it should be configurable -- let the library set a syspref to say whether they want to force a login.
19:05 cait jwagner: yes
19:05 jdavidb +1
19:06 cait jwagner: I know I have seen the patch, but cant find it now :(
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19:11 owen 9/21/09 [PATCH] (bug #3651) sending baskets and shelves
19:11 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3651 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---,, ASSIGNED, sending shelves and baskets
19:11 owen "this patch restrict the send of baskets and shelves to authenticated users only, and show their surname/firstname in the e-mail, so the receiver will know who sent the list."
19:14 cait thx owen
19:14 jwagner Yep, that's what did it.  Thanks, owen.  I updated my bug report to point to that one.  I don't know if there's a way to allow emails without logins while still preserving security.
19:18 schuster IF nothing else I would like on the form for it to ask for a name so when the cart is sent to a third party they know who it came from and it wasn't the library sending the cart randomly.
19:19 schuster I've had a few emails from Librarians asking me why I sent them this cart of books to pull.
19:19 adegroff left #koha
19:19 schuster wajasu - glad we could figure it out!  I figured it had something to do with the marc not Zebra since I havn't had problems with mine.
19:20 jwagner Also see jdavidb's Bug 3280 about cart security.
19:20 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3280 normal, P3, ---,, NEW, opac/ security leaky
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19:32 bigbrovar Hi guys I was wondering if its possible to get koha featured on floss weekly. Its a weekly podcast about free and open source software. Its one of the bestest podcast out there about foss with guest like Linus Torvald,KDE projects, drupal to name a few
19:32 bigbrovar It would be nice to have the Koha project featured.
19:33 wizzyrea yea, that would be cool
19:34 owen floss weekly eh? Now there's a schedule I can stick to.
19:34 richard joined #koha
19:34 richard hi
19:38 braedon|work joined #koha
19:38 braedon|work morning #koha
19:39 owen Hi braedon|work
19:39 zator joined #koha
19:40 seneca I love FLOSS Weekly (and most Leo does)
19:42 seneca Does anyone know where, on a koha server, I can throw extra images, etc I would like to use in the OPAC page(s)?
19:42 Nate left #koha
19:42 seneca I've checked the koha-httpd.conf and anything I put in the document root gets a 404 when I try to access it
19:43 wizzyrea chris_n the labels work you did made one of my librarians squee this morning
19:47 zator left #koha
19:47 owen seneca: How do you want to use them?
19:48 owen You could always put them in opac-tmpl/prog/images
19:49 bigbrovar wizzyrea: I thought as much. and its not heard. we just need to get the project heard at koha. to write Merlyn the dude who does the show with leo. once that is done am sure both can discuss on a schedule
19:50 chris back
19:51 seneca I tried that, owen, but I was getting 404s, unless I was using the wrong URL to get to it
19:52 ebegin chris, do you know which string is currently generated for entries that are flagged as fuzzy in pootle?
19:52 chris i can look
19:53 ebegin here one of the string to translate in koha 3.0.x: /cgi-bin/koha/
19:53 ebegin string # 90
19:53 chris thats in fr-CA ?
19:53 ebegin yep
19:53 chris looking now
19:54 ebegin BTW, it's weird that we have to translate it, but I can understand that it's part of the template... but the default suggestion is a different URL, so this could be problematic if the proposed version is set instead of the original one :)
19:54 chris #, fuzzy
19:54 chris msgid "/cgi-bin/koha/"
19:55 chris msgstr "%s/cgi-bin/koha/opac-searc​;format=atom"
19:55 chris yeah that translation is wrong .. hit copy and submit :) thats what i do :)
19:55 chris its tha #, fuzzy
19:55 chris that tells ya
19:57 owen Okay, who pasted a long line? Now Chatzilla's got a horizontal scrollbar.
19:57 ebegin ok.  this means that we can have a lot of problem with those fuzzy string then...  thanks, i'll complete the 3.0.x translation and hopfully, the 3.2 too
19:58 chris cool thanks
20:00 seneca left #koha
20:01 chris yay for openid
20:02 schuster seneca - did you get your images to display?
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20:10 wajasu schuster: Thanks.  I just work about catalogers that copy catalog and get bad a 007 field, which causes the rebuild_zebra to fail from that point onward.  It seems that it could go un noticed for days.
20:10 nengard okay - meeting over - jwagner - what were you asking me before I closed this window?
20:10 jwagner I tend to create a Local directory under the images directory, then call the image like this: <img src="/opac-tmpl/prog/images/Local/imagename.gif">
20:10 wajasu s/work/worry/
20:11 jwagner nengard, see earlier discussion about Bug 4274
20:11 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4274 minor, P5, ---,, NEW, Cart now requires login before emailing contents
20:11 adegroff joined #koha
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20:12 jwagner nengard, I was just going to ask you if you'd seen that during testing, but we progressed beyond that point.
20:13 nengard ah - well i don't have emailing working
20:13 nengard so no i didn't see it :)
20:13 schuster wajasu - another good reason to run things through MarcEditVerify!!!
20:14 schuster nengard - question about Inventory - have you documented that for 3.2?
20:14 nengard schuster - a bit -[…]-manual/?ch=x4916
20:17 wizzyrea left #koha
20:23 owen schuster: Are you planning an inventory? We're going to try to do one soon
20:25 jwagner owen and schuster, reverting to the earlier discussions about call number sort -- we first spotted that problem when one of our sites was trying to do inventory.  The inventory scripts are sorting by call number, not cn_sort, so results were really off.  When we changed it to cn_sort, we saw the padding problem.
20:27 owen jwagner: Did this site encounter any other problems with inventory that I should worry about?
20:27 jwagner Not that I know of, just wanted to give you a heads up about the sorting.
20:28 * jwagner makes mental note to do patch fixing the sort to use cn_sort, at least....
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20:33 nengard what is the "later" syntax?
20:34 nengard @later tell chris_n I need some help documenting layouts for labels ... see documentation git repo to see what I have so far
20:34 munin nengard: The operation succeeded.
20:34 jdavidb off to catch the bus...  *wave*
20:34 jdavidb left #koha
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20:36 schuster owen - our librarians as much as they hated it before can't wait to do one now, but with 3.0 it was a bit buggy.  I was hopeful that 3.2 would be better.
20:36 schuster I need to do some testing before we do anything.  It won't be anywhere what they were used to getting were it helped to actually clean up the WHOLE collection not just identify if items were there.
20:37 owen I don't think much has changed has it? What kind of problems did you encounter?
20:37 schuster I even have the handheld scanners from our previous automation system working to do the scanning to create the file so we can upload a barcode file.
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20:37 schuster I hadn't done one before, but was reading "issues" with it from the koha archives.
20:38 schuster I believe biblibre did some "enhancements" to it for 3.2?
20:38 chris wasaju: that is only a problem when you run with -r .. which you shouldnt do (except after a big import)
20:38 chris -z will skip the bad record, but keep on going with the rest
20:41 schuster owen - now I remember after looking at documentation - it didn't skip items that were already on loan...
20:42 owen That sounds like an inventory show-stopper.
20:42 schuster There are still reports that I would like to see created to help with cleanup etc...  There isn't much there right now for the librarian to run and I would end up in the middle I think.
20:43 schuster But that is why we test!
20:43 ricardo joined #koha
20:43 ricardo Hi everyone
20:44 ricardo Has Koha 3.0.6 been released? And, if NOT, does anyone have any idea why a file called "koha-3.00.06.tar.gz" has been published in  ?
20:45 ricardo ( The file has "Last Modified date" of 16-Feb-2010, according to )
20:45 wizzyrea_ !!
20:46 chris no it hasnt been released, bugs were found .. hence no release announcement
20:46 adegroff left #koha
20:46 chris if the release maintainer had access that file would disappear
20:47 ricardo chris: Right... I just noticed that file because a user called "Leonardo Bruno" posted a link to that URL, in the "Koha" mailing list, thinking that it would download 3.0.5
20:48 chris yeah, the joys of not having appropriate access bite us again
20:48 ricardo chris: *nod*
20:50 ricardo chris: That's why I think setting up "" was a great idea. Unfortunately, it hasn't many "Google Juice" yet -
20:50 chris yeah, that just takes time and more people linking to it
20:51 braedon|work yeah, everyone needs to make a converted effort to update their links
20:51 braedon|work and relink
20:51 ricardo chris: *nod*  again... you'll get me a neck pain if you keep doing that  ;-)
20:51 owen So there is a request out there to remove 3.00.06 which hasn't been heeded?
20:51 chris i dont know, hdl_laptop might
20:53 braedon|work s/converted/concerted/
20:53 * braedon|work needs sleep. Thankfully uni is starting next week
20:54 ricardo braedon|work: Talking about "s/converted/concerted", I didn't know about the "Braedon" name. I guess we *do* learn something new every day  :)
20:54 braedon|work haha
20:55 * braedon|work 's made up name is a potential blessing but current curse in google rankings
20:56 owen left #koha
20:56 ricardo eheh
20:56 ricardo I prefer:
20:56 ricardo
20:56 ricardo compared to
20:57 ricardo[…].php?term=braedon
20:57 ricardo ;-)
20:58 braedon|work hahaha
20:58 rhcl Would it be correct syntactically to ask what the token separator is in a .mrc file? Does that even make sense? Or maybe I ask about the field separator instead.
20:58 braedon|work i wonder if someone i know wrote the urban dictionary entry :p
20:58 rhcl should ask
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21:01 mdhafen rhcl: field separator and token (record) separator are both good questions.  I don't know the answer though, sorry.
21:01 ricardo rhcl: I think those are special ASCII characters (29, 30 and 31)
21:02 ricardo
21:02 ricardo (hmmm... and 28 also, apparently)
21:03 ricardo rhcl: I think "Notepad++" shows you the right "acronyms" if you open the MARC file with it (GS = Group Separator, US = Unit Separator) and so on...
21:05 rhcl I suppose I could do an octal dump...too much work though
21:06 rhcl rocardo: you don't mean notepad on windows, do you? I use Linux, maybe kate would show something.
21:07 ricardo rhcl: I meant "Notepad++" - (GPL program... But yeah, reading the site again, it seems to be Windows only - I thought it was cross-platform)
21:12 mdhafen from the directory and fields end with the field terminator: ascii hex 1E.  There is a record terminator: ascii hex 1D, and a subfield deliminator: ascii hex 1F
21:12 mdhafen except the subfield deliminator is at the beginning of the subfield.  The rest are at the end.
21:13 ricardo mdhafen: Cool, thanks for the info.
21:13 ricardo Well, I really "gotta" go home now. Take care everyone!
21:13 mdhafen yeah, I have the MARC21 spec on bookmarked :)
21:13 chris cya ricardo
21:13 ricardo mdhafen: Eheh, nice
21:13 ricardo chris: Bye chris!  :)
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21:17 magnus_away jwagner?
21:22 magnus_away is now known as magnus
21:22 jwagner Yes?
21:23 magnus i *think* i have a fix for bug 4265...
21:23 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4265 normal, P5, ---,, NEW, Sorting by call number in OPAC is slightly off
21:24 jwagner I saw that.  I'll have jdavidb take a look in the morning.  He looked at the problem for us originally.
21:24 magnus great - i feel sort of out of my depth, but it seems to work...
21:24 jwagner It looks like you also changed the routine to use cn_sort instead of regular call number?
21:26 schuster ok so someone clarify for me about the call number sort stuff...  What causes it to be off?  someone mentioned ddc someplace which made me wonder
21:26 jwagner Oops, the one I have on my mental list is the inventory sorting, and you were looking at OPAC sorting.
21:26 magnus yes, was sorting by Local-classification, not cn-sort (the padded version of the call number)
21:27 jwagner schuster, see the bug report.  Two problems -- inventory was using regular call number instead of cn_sort for sorting, and the cn_sort was only getting the first segment of the call number padded, not every segment.  The second one is what magnus just patched.
21:27 ebegin Is it easy to do a request to zebra to get a list of specific bib id?
21:28 jwagner I'll have to go back & check now if inventory is using (and thus should be fixed now), or its own call (still would need patching).
21:28 mdhafen inventory probably sorts from the database
21:28 zator joined #koha
21:28 ebegin I'm looking for a way to use the XSLT file for result in order to display the content of the lists...  (unless that was done already)
21:29 magnus ... and so to bed
21:29 magnus left #koha
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22:01 schuster by all hope you had a great day!
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22:12 braedon|work :p
22:22 wizzyrea_ wtf yo, how do you get this to show up all the time, it it a syspref?
22:22 wizzyrea_ i've never seen that before
22:23 wizzyrea_ either way, I like it .... a lot
22:25 mdhafen yeah, that's new
22:26 mdhafen don't remember who submitted that.
22:26 wizzyrea_ ok, but I don't see it in a newer version of head
22:26 wizzyrea_ is it a nozebra thing?
22:26 wizzyrea_ (surely not)
22:27 mdhafen I doubt it
22:31 wizzyrea_ erg, i must figure it out
22:32 mdhafen that's how I feel, but I'm in the middle of something else now. :(
22:32 wizzyrea_ hehe I forgive you :)
22:32 mdhafen lol.  thanks.
22:35 braedon|work i saw that at some point also.. can't remember any details as to the setup sorry :(
22:35 braedon|work what version did you see it on?
22:36 mdhafen ah, OpacUrl has to be set
22:36 mdhafen I finished the other thing ;)
22:36 wizzyrea_ AH
22:36 wizzyrea_ nicole did it
22:37 wizzyrea_ mdhafen++
22:37 * wizzyrea_ goes to see if setting it works...
22:39 wizzyrea_ hm. I set it and it's not showing :/
22:42 mdhafen mystery to me then.
22:44 wizzyrea_ gerg. I like it, too.
22:45 mdhafen do you have xslt on?
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