IRC log for #koha, 2010-02-05

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
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00:26 rhcl_away Hey Jo, you still here?
00:26 rhcl_away is now known as rhcl
00:30 rhcl Jo: catch you later, I'm leaving for the day
00:30 rhcl is now known as rhcl_away
00:30 chris_n @wunder 28334
00:30 munin chris_n: The current temperature in Dunn, North Carolina is 4.6�C (7:24 PM EST on February 04, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 37%. Dew Point: -9.0�C. Windchill: 5.0�C. Pressure: 30.00 in 1015.8 hPa (Steady). Flood Watch in effect from Friday afternoon through late Friday night...
00:31 * chris_n prepares his raft
00:46 Jo yep
01:36 chris_n gmcharlt about?
01:37 chris_n @later tell gmcharlt: it does not look as if this patch made it in yet:[…]hment.cgi?id=1401
01:37 munin chris_n: The operation succeeded.
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03:06 * chris_n works through his buglist for a bit
03:31 chris_n ok, mini-bugsqush session over
03:31 chris_n g'night #koha
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03:35 Amit hi brendan
03:35 Amit morning #koha
03:40 braedon|work would someone be able to check searching nat library of NZ using the z39.50 search in Koha for me? It doesn't seem to work from Koha, but goes fine from my own perl script.
03:40 SelfishMan aaaaaafafl;jflfjfdffdddfd
03:40 SelfishMan s
03:40 braedon|work ...
03:40 braedon|work ok SelfishMan
03:40 SelfishMan oops.  xon/xoff issue with screen
03:41 braedon|work lol
03:46 braedon|work so no one around that could check nat lib for me?
03:47 braedon|work damn
03:55 braedon|work well, goodnight #koha
03:56 braedon|work natlib will have to wait until monday
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04:01 brendan hi Amit
04:01 brendan good day to you
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07:02 Ropuch Morning #koha
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08:57 chris hi europe
08:58 kf hi chris :)
09:00 nahuel hi Kiwiz
09:00 Ropuch Hi kf, chris, nahuel
09:01 nahuel hi Ropuch
09:01 nahuel and kf
09:01 nahuel and chris
09:01 nahuel and all :)
09:03 Ropuch While adding an item to a basket i get "No ACQ framework, using default. You should create a framework with code ACQ, the items framework would be used"
09:16 kf you can add one call it acq and modify 952 fields to your needs in acquisition
09:23 Ropuch kf: thanks!
09:25 kf I think its a really nice idea - would think one specific framework for serials would be nice too :)
09:26 Ropuch Yup
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09:26 Ropuch :)
09:35 kf ropuch: have you an alpha-installtion where you can test something for me?
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09:50 Ropuch kf: i have head
09:50 Ropuch But I can set up alpha if you give me 5 minutes
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09:52 kf no head is fine
09:53 kf can yu tell me your current setting for QueryAutoTruncate?
09:57 kf we have problems with search when its turned off - turned on works fine. I just want to know if this is a general problem before filing a bug
09:59 Ropuch Sorry, phonecall
09:59 Ropuch I have QueryAutoTruncate set to auto
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10:05 Ropuch kf: and it works like it's supposed to be
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10:08 Ropuch kf: my other search settings are:
10:09 Ropuch I'm pretty sure these are default settings
10:14 kf ok
10:14 kf sorry was afk
10:15 kf we had it off
10:15 kf can you try setting it off?
10:19 kf "only if * is added"
10:20 kf and make a keyword search?
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10:25 kf in our installation it breaks search :(
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10:32 Ropuch kf: it's working
10:33 kf hm
10:33 kf somehow I hoped it would cause you problems too
10:33 kf have you a new installation or an updated one?
10:34 Ropuch Updated
10:34 kf ok, we came from 3.1.61
10:35 kf its just so strange
10:35 Ropuch Hm actually my update was unusual
10:36 Ropuch I clean-installed head version and then imported my 3.00.05 dump before running web installer
10:36 kf hm ok
10:36 kf thank you for testing Ropuch
10:37 kf will try to talk to gmcharlt about it later, he made some suggestions yesterday what we could do or check
10:38 Ropuch But after few more searches i think  QueryAutoTruncate isn't working at all - when i search for querry 'Brand' with (only if * is added) I have Brand(t)meister in the results (QueryStemming is off)
10:39 Ropuch And all the books with title/subject Brandt
10:40 Ropuch kf: if you need any further testing, just ping me ;>
10:40 kf thank you :)
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11:41 kf gmcharlt: around?
11:41 gmcharlt hi kf
11:42 kf ah hi
11:42 kf we have some problems with our test installation
11:42 kf patched 3.01.61 - HEAD standard install
11:43 kf we found out that switching QueryAutoTruncate ON = atomatically solves our search problem
11:43 kf switching it to OFF = only if * is added breaks search
11:44 kf I asked Ropuch to test it in his installation, but is works with both settings for him, except that it always seems to truncate searches
11:45 gmcharlt interesting - based on that, I thnk I definitely would need to see your Zebra config files to debug further
11:45 kf my colleague said its standard now
11:45 kf no icu
11:45 kf no additional indexes we added etc.
11:46 kf but I can ask him for them of course
11:46 gmcharlt thans
11:46 kf there is another problem
11:46 kf I cant access rotating collections and patron card creator - the files were not created
11:47 gmcharlt rotating collections will be moved out of 3.2, but I know what's wrong re patron card creator and will fix that
11:47 kf can this be a problem caused by our standard install?
11:47 gmcharlt Makefile.PL needs to be updated
11:47 kf ah
11:47 kf should I file a bug for this?
11:48 gmcharlt no need, I'll take care of it in a couple minutes
11:48 kf I got a bit unsure if its just a problem with our installation
11:49 kf ok, thank you
11:50 kf which files do you need? bib1.att, records.abs, a special folder from zebra?
11:50 gmcharlt the whole /etc/koha/zebra directory
11:56 kf my colleague told me he compared the files yesterday to those in git
11:57 kf and they are the same
11:57 kf and search works fine when switching it on - should the problem not be located elsewhere in this case? or perhaps a bad sys pref combination?
12:01 gmcharlt hmm, if they're identical, then please send me the values of all of the search related sysprefs
12:03 kf just made a screenshot
12:03 kf :)
12:03 kf
12:03 kf thats what Ropuch had - QueryFuzzy setting is different from our
12:04 kf ah, ok, wrong screenshot - this is the working configuration, change QueryAutoTruncate and it stops working
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12:19 gmcharlt kf: re autotruncation, when queryautotruncate is off, it doesn't work for any search, even if the search term is a whole word?
12:20 kf my example is israel
12:24 kf oh israel* works when its set to off
12:25 kf but not israel
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12:26 kf same with another word: query is off: stuttgart = 0 stuttgart* = 1109
12:26 jdavidb g'mornin, #koha.
12:27 kf good morning jdavidb
12:28 kf seems like "only if * is added* means that you have to add * to get results at all :(
12:34 jdavidb @wunder 20852
12:34 munin jdavidb: The current temperature in Flower Valley, Rockville, Maryland is -0.4�C (7:23 AM EST on February 05, 2010). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 75%. Dew Point: -4.0�C. Windchill: 0.0�C. Pressure: 29.99 in 1015.5 hPa (Steady). Winter Storm Warning in effect from 10 am this morning to 10 PM EST Saturday...
12:35 jdavidb Sounds about right...the calm before the storm.
12:36 kf @wunder Konstanz
12:36 munin kf: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Germany is 2.0�C (1:29 PM CET on February 05, 2010). Conditions: Light Rain. Humidity: 95%. Dew Point: 1.0�C. Windchill: 2.0�C. Pressure: 29.82 in 1009.7 hPa (Steady).
12:39 gmcharlt @later tell chris_n patch added
12:39 munin gmcharlt: The operation succeeded.
12:40 kf gmcharlt: can you reproduce it in your installation?
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12:42 gmcharlt kf: no - instead, I'm seeing the behavior Ropuch seems, where the auto-truncate setting is ignored entirely
12:42 kf oh my :(
12:43 gmcharlt ah, wait, hold on ...
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12:45 gmcharlt querryfuzzy = on seems to be required
12:45 kf guten morgen jwagner
12:46 kf gmcharlt: no difference here
12:46 kf have fuzzy to try and autotruncate to only if... and only truncated searches get results
12:47 jdavidb mornin', jwagner.
12:48 gmcharlt kf: ok, found it, at least for my install - queryweightfields must be on
12:48 kf oh
12:48 kf I think this is the one that icu does not like
12:49 jwagner morning all.
12:50 kf gmcharlt: with queryweightfields on, fuzzy off, truncate off it seems to work correctly here too
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12:53 gmcharlt is anybody else having problems getting a response from ?
12:53 kf gmcharlt: icu indexing did not work with some search sys prefs on - so we had to turn them off. we will need to test icu next with that settings.
12:53 kf gmcharlt: git - yes
12:56 gmcharlt I've emailed cfouts about it
12:56 hdl_laptop gmcharlt: I think I sent some patches about queryautotruncate.
12:57 jwagner gmcharlt, I get a response eventually -- at least the page has started to display.  But it's VERY slow.
12:57 hdl_laptop It is fixed on 3.0.x
12:58 kf hdl_laptop: could be part of our problem - our installation is patched from 3.1.61
12:59 gmcharlt I see no auto-truncate patches in the patch list queue - could you point them out to me?
13:00 hdl_laptop mmmm... maybe a smtp-server problem at that time
13:01 gmcharlt well, at this points commit IDs for cherry-picking from 3.0.x might be better anyway, assuming that the patches in question are reasonably self-contained
13:05 gmcharlt jwagner: whatever it was, problem was transitory
13:06 jwagner gremlins....
13:06 hdl_laptop gmcharlt: you will have them in
13:06 hdl_laptop patches resent
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13:11 nengard hmm - I'm working on adding the acq preferences back into Koha - but for some reason when I type 360,000.00 the system changes it to 360000  -- ideas?
13:12 gmcharlt nengard: try setting the syspref type to float
13:13 nengard gmcharlt - i worded that poorly - it's in the db fine, it's just displaying on the screen funny - but I solved it by adding text to the pull down
13:13 owen Hi all
13:13 nengard now - hdl_laptop - are we still using the pdformat preference? or was that replaced by OrderPdfFormat?
13:14 hdl_laptop I think OrderPdfFormat
13:14 nengard that's what it looks like
13:14 nengard thanks!
13:22 hdl_laptop gmcharlt: the patches I just sent donot seem to be the latest ones I thought I should send
13:25 gmcharlt hdl_laptop: ok, I'll ignore the 17 patches you just emailed and await a corrected submission
13:25 gmcharlt make the 20 patche you just emailed
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13:34 schuster nengard you here?
13:34 nengard here
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13:35 schuster I was just reading Jo's post to the list about trademarks - do you have any Librarian Lawyer friends that deal with international laws?
13:35 schuster The whole Global thing gets tricky...
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13:37 gmcharlt nengard: hdl_laptop: what are valid choices for OrderPdfFormat ? as is, that syspref is rather unfriendly
13:37 nengard gmcharlt - no idea :) it was a text box in the old interface so I just copied that
13:38 nengard schuster - I don't know - I can check when I'm done patching today - but many of the law librarians I know charge for research and I haven't worked with them for 3+ years now - so favors are getting less frequent :(
13:40 chris_n g'morning
13:42 nengard hdl_laptop does casServerUrl require you enter the http:// or not?
13:42 nengard morning chris_n
13:44 chris_n nengard: patron card code should be all patched up now for you continued testing enjoyment
13:44 nengard awesome
13:45 nengard will do when i'm done patching :)
13:45 nengard trying to add the missing sys prefs in
13:45 chris_n patching is the word of the day
13:45 nengard patching is the word of the month :)
13:45 nengard 3.2 is the goal!!!
13:45 chris_n let's keep gmcharlt busy ;-)
13:45 chris_n as if he is not busy enough already
13:46 * gmcharlt continues the tradition started yesterday, hides
13:46 matts nengard, yes, it does require the https:// part
13:46 nengard thanks matts
13:46 matts you welcome
13:51 * jwagner sets the bloodhounds on gmcharlt's trail
13:54 nengard okay - another preference question - it used to be that you set  AnonSuggestions  to a borrower ID and used that patron for suggestions - but now it says on/off or allow/don't allow - so which is it?
13:55 rhcl_sleeps is now known as rhcl_awake
13:56 rhcl_awake what are all you people doing on here so early in the morning? coffee ain't even boiled yet
13:56 jdavidb Early?
13:57 imp it's nearly 15:00 ;)
13:57 * jdavidb checks the clock... then looks out a window... no, the Snowpocalypse hasn't started yet.
13:59 chris_n lol jdavidb :-)
13:59 chris_n the rainpocalypse is in progress in NC
13:59 jdavidb We're expecting 18-24" in the next 36 hours here.
14:00 imp nice :)
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14:00 rhcl_awake well, we got an inch last night
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14:00 owen Freezing rain here, schools are already closed.
14:01 * owen hopes he doesn't have to spend the weekend at work
14:01 * owen will call a 48-hour bug-squashing marathon if so
14:02 gmcharlt owen++
14:02 nengard :)
14:02 * gmcharlt calls up owen's boss ;)
14:02 nengard LOL
14:03 jdavidb owen++  ;I'd be in for that.
14:03 hilongo oohh.. if tou could see how pretty is everything around here ... with all the sun and flowers and birds  :P
14:03 owen :D
14:03 hilongo @wunder mendoza, Argentina
14:03 munin hilongo: The current temperature in Mendoza, Argentina is 25.0�C (10:00 AM ART on February 05, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 47%. Dew Point: 13.0�C. Pressure: 29.74 in 1007 hPa (Steady).
14:03 jwagner hilongo, you is asking for trouble!
14:04 owen Wow, that's the place to be hilongo!
14:04 jwagner @wunder 20740
14:04 munin jwagner: The current temperature in Hollywood, College Park, Maryland is 1.2�C (9:01 AM EST on February 05, 2010). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 69%. Dew Point: -4.0�C. Windchill: 1.0�C. Pressure: 30.31 in 1026.3 hPa (Steady). Winter Storm Warning in effect from 10 am this morning to 10 PM EST Saturday...
14:05 * hilongo puts away his 'margarita' to type
14:05 * owen thinks hilongo should hire us all to conduct on-site Koha seminars
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14:05 rhcl_awake sun and flowers and birds, and I've got cold and snow and a whinny cat
14:05 hilongo yep ... it's nice today aver here ... don't count me in for the bug-squashing marathon ;)
14:05 rhcl_awake but coffee is served now, so things are looking up
14:07 rhcl_awake @wonder 64505
14:07 munin rhcl_awake: Error: "wonder" is not a valid command.
14:07 rhcl_awake @wunder 64505
14:07 munin rhcl_awake: The current temperature in St Joseph, Missouri is -0.7�C (8:04 AM CST on February 05, 2010). Conditions: Light Snow. Humidity: 94%. Dew Point: -2.0�C. Windchill: -1.0�C. Pressure: 29.94 in 1013.8 hPa (Falling). Winter Weather Advisory in effect until 6 PM CST this evening...
14:07 owen The patches folder in my email is filling up before my eyes
14:10 rhcl_awake rhcl mutters to self "I went to school in College Park, MD"
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14:10 nengard i'm working on sys pref bugs - and in the circuation preferences there is a comment that reads:
14:10 nengard broken, omitted: emailLibrarianWhenHoldIsPlaced, holdCancelLength, WebBasedSelfCheck
14:10 nengard anyone know about these prefs?
14:10 nengard I havne't had probs with WebBasedSelfCheck ...
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14:11 nengard @wunder 19030
14:11 munin nengard: The current temperature in JAT Observatory, Fairless Hills, Pennsylvania is -0.9�C (9:00 AM EST on February 05, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 60%. Dew Point: -8.0�C. Windchill: -1.0�C. Pressure: 30.27 in 1024.9 hPa (Rising). Winter Storm Warning in effect from 6 PM this evening to 7 PM EST Saturday...
14:11 nengard i'm on a roll owen :)
14:11 gmcharlt nengard: emailLibrarianWhenHoldIsPlaced and holdCancelLength are definitely broken
14:12 gmcharlt WebBasedSelfCheck is not
14:12 nengard that's what i thought ;)
14:12 nengard I'll put it back in
14:12 magnus @wunder bodo, norway
14:12 munin magnus: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is -5.0�C (2:50 PM CET on February 05, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 59%. Dew Point: -12.0�C. Windchill: -14.0�C. Pressure: 30.06 in 1018 hPa (Steady).
14:13 magnus at least it's almost the weekend here... ;-)
14:13 schuster WebBasedSelfCheck works great - we only have one problem is dealing with holds...  But I havn't put any money back into that.  I'll create a bug to track it.
14:13 gmcharlt nengard: ping me when you're done with prefs patches for the day - I'll push 'em en masse
14:13 schuster Meaning the self check won't allow you to checkout a book on hold for someone else and there isn't an easy way to override it - the librarian has to get involved.
14:14 nengard will do gmacharlt
14:14 schuster actually that isn't a bug but a workflow issue. so I won't bug it...
14:14 schuster FYI we LOVE WebBasedSelfCheck... as it is...
14:14 gmcharlt schuster: it's an enhancement request though, so please *do* put it into ;)
14:15 schuster I don't know how you would enhance it...  I guess maybe a message with a prompt for override by someone with appropriate credentials?
14:16 gmcharlt by providing options - (a) silently allow the loan and rejigger the holds queue (b) add an ability for staff member to enter override on the spot (c) stick with current bheavior
14:16 gmcharlt depends on what the library wants
14:16 gmcharlt e.g., if on-shelf hold requests are allowed, library may want the hold request to trump
14:18 moodaepo @wunder Mankato. MN
14:18 munin moodaepo: The current temperature in South on Monks, Mankato, Minnesota is -1.4�C (8:15 AM CST on February 05, 2010). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 87%. Dew Point: -3.0�C. Windchill: -5.0�C. Pressure: 30.09 in 1018.8 hPa (Falling).
14:19 gmcharlt @wunder Gainesville, FL
14:19 munin gmcharlt: The current temperature in Central Gainesville, Gainesville, Florida is 19.1�C (9:16 AM EST on February 05, 2010). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 95%. Dew Point: 18.0�C. Pressure: 29.89 in 1012.1 hPa (Rising). Lake Wind Advisory in effect from 10 am this morning to 10 PM EST this evening...
14:19 moodaepo gmcharlt wins!
14:20 * moodaepo wonders what the heck is "Lake Wind Advisory" : )
14:20 gmcharlt keep your small children weighted down
14:20 schuster @wunder Plano,TX
14:20 munin schuster: The current temperature in Crooked Lane, Plano, Texas is 4.7�C (8:17 AM CST on February 05, 2010). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 93%. Dew Point: 4.0�C. Windchill: 3.0�C. Pressure: 29.95 in 1014.1 hPa (Rising).
14:21 magnus left #koha
14:21 schuster brrr...
14:21 schuster I've put in a but @bug 4120 for the enhancement on web based self check.
14:21 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4120 enhancement, P5, ---,, NEW, WebBasedSelfCheck
14:27 schuster question so if I'm on 3.00.x - I should be able to do the 3.2 tarbal as an upgrade on a test system correct and start playing with 3.2?
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14:31 chris_n @wunder 28334
14:31 munin chris_n: The current temperature in Dunn, North Carolina is 1.3�C (9:28 AM EST on February 05, 2010). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 52%. Dew Point: -8.0�C. Windchill: -3.0�C. Pressure: 29.77 in 1008.0 hPa (Steady). Flood Watch in effect from noon EST today through late tonight...
14:47 rhcl_awake left #koha
14:47 schuster seeing the discussion on sounds again - @bug 1080 - love the discussion!
14:47 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=1080 enhancement, P2, ---,, REOPENED, How about telling the template to make a noise on circulation errors?
14:53 * owen notices that saving a MARC record now redirects you to the MARC detail page rather than the additem screen
14:53 gmcharlt hmm - when did that happen?
14:54 * owen doesn't know
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14:54 gmcharlt hdl_laptop: ^^ commit is 709e3b - why was change made?
14:54 gmcharlt seems like it should be a cataloger preference
14:55 gmcharlt (actually, staff operator preferences, as opposed to system preferences, would be nice to add for 3.4)
14:56 gmcharlt owen: ok, looks like creating new bib sends you to item form, editing bib does not
14:56 owen I guess that makes a certain amount of sense.
14:56 gmcharlt makes sense to me too
14:57 owen Beware of changing catalogers' expectations about their workflow!
14:57 * owen will have to warn them
14:57 gmcharlt so whether operator pref is needed will be decided by whether I get a herd of angry catalogers outside my door
14:57 jwagner I prefer it this way -- it's always annoyed me that editing a bib record takes me into item creation instead of back to the display.
14:58 owen Maybe a button that says "save and add items?"
14:58 gmcharlt +1 (no need for syspref, then)
14:58 owen I wonder if that redirect should obey the bibliodefaultview preference
14:59 gmcharlt would be nice
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15:13 hdl_laptop owen when you modify a record, it is quite logicial to be redirected to the display of the record.
15:14 hdl_laptop when you create a new record, then redirection is on additem
15:14 hdl_laptop this was asked
15:14 nengard gmcharlt - i think i'm done with the sys prefs patches
15:14 owen hdl_laptop: Do you agree that this redirect should follow the  IntranetBiblioDefaultView  system preference?
15:19 gmcharlt nengard: I've pushed them - I'll leave it to you to deal with updating/closing the bugs
15:20 rhcl_away is now known as rhcl
15:21 hdl_laptop owen: yes.
15:21 * owen will see if he can make it so
15:22 nengard thanks gmcharlt
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15:57 gmcharlt owen: if you're feeling even more ambitious, a new C4 function to create the IntranetBiblioDefaultView redirect would be nice
16:01 * owen grumbles about this circ error message:[…]error-message.png
16:01 gmcharlt very zen-like
16:04 jwagner Again??? That one keeps showing up....
16:06 schuster ???circ error message???
16:07 owen jwagner: Did you think it was fixed?
16:07 jwagner I know it's shown up & I thought it was patched.
16:07 jwagner But I could be mistaken....
16:09 jwagner There's Bug 4036, but I thought there was an earlier bug/patch too
16:09 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4036 critical, P5, ---,, NEW, Two conditions missing from circ template messages: USERBLOCKEDOVERDUE  and USERBLOCKEDREMAINING
16:11 owen Thanks, I couldn't remember if I'd filed a bug before
16:11 wizzyrea for you east coasters
16:11 wizzyrea
16:11 wizzyrea and good morning
16:12 chris_n am I correct in the thought that it appears at present we do not check for/limit duplicate userid's
16:12 * owen obeys wizzyrea and hits the liquor store
16:12 jwagner wizzyrea -- Harrumph!
16:13 * jwagner falls in the totally screwed category....
16:13 jdavidb I love that graphic, wizzyrea!
16:13 jwagner chris_n, you mean patron barcodes?  I thought it wouldn't let you save a duplicate?
16:13 wizzyrea yea, you'll note that I also fall in the "hit the liquor store" area :D
16:13 chris_n jwagner: no borrowers.userid
16:14 owen chris_n: I tried to save a patron record with a duplicate username and password and I got an error
16:14 owen "Login/password already exists."
16:14 jwagner The OPAC login?
16:14 owen Yes
16:14 chris_n owen: tnx
16:14 owen This from
16:14 jwagner (I think chris_n falls in the "buy a boat" area)!
16:14 * chris_n thinks the that column should be defined as unique
16:14 * chris_n prepared his raft last evening ;-)
16:15 * jdavidb makes that pic his desktop background.  The evil minion will laugh her ears off at that.
16:15 wizzyrea hehehe
16:15 chris_n all of the essentials: food and wireless internet
16:15 joetho joined #koha
16:15 owen ...but really it's warning about the OPAC login, not the password.
16:15 chris_n I'll open a bug for it
16:16 chris_n it bears more looking into and fixing as well
16:16 wizzyrea owen: I know you're terribly busy... you said you had an alternate koha logo for the temp website?
16:16 owen Yeah, thanks for reminding me
16:20 chris_n ok, dup userid's are caught when creating new patrons
16:21 chris_n but dups are not caught by the script
16:23 Kivutar left #koha
16:29 jdavidb is now known as jdavidb_away
16:33 nengard got a question - does  OpacPrivacy control whether the patron reading history is kept in the staff client as well? cause if the data is kept at all then it's not really private ....
16:36 * jwagner thinks I'll head for the liquor store, er, fast food joint
16:36 jwagner is now known as jwagner_lunch
16:42 owen wizzyrea: How about this?
16:42 wizzyrea yes, delightful :D
16:43 wizzyrea done
16:43 wizzyrea beautiful, owen
16:45 wizzyrea oh
16:45 wizzyrea can o worms
16:45 wizzyrea Presumably there will need to be some sort of licensing information on the new site
16:45 wizzyrea CC or ..
16:45 wizzyrea for the site content itself
16:48 nengard manual is licensed under the CC - just fyi
16:48 nengard and i ahve that in the xml
16:48 owen Since we're going through this with the wiki: ...
16:49 owen Should we stick to GPL 2 for other content?
16:50 nengard gmcharlt - no matter what i set WebBasedSelfCheck to i can access the web self checkout page ... so maybe the notes were right in saying that the pref didn't work
16:52 owen hdl_laptop?
16:52 wizzyrea I know slef usually has an opinion on these things, that's why I asked :/
16:52 hdl_laptop yes
16:52 owen hdl_laptop: could you look at Bug 4036?
16:52 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4036 critical, P5, ---,, NEW, Two conditions missing from circ template messages: USERBLOCKEDOVERDUE  and USERBLOCKEDREMAINING
16:53 owen I'm trying to understand what conditions cause USERBLOCKEDREMAINING and USERBLOCKEDOVERDUE
16:53 hdl_laptop AH.....
16:53 gmcharlt nengard: you're right, mark that as a blocker for 3.2  - getting WebBasedSelfCheck to actually work is easy
16:53 nengard wil do
16:53 hdl_laptop there is work on that part at the moment.
16:54 hdl_laptop But it is a rewrite and changes the debarred behaviour to be a date
16:54 joetho Bug 4036
16:55 hdl_laptop IsMemberBlocked is simply trying to see if the user is debarred or not
16:56 Ropuch Ugh! I've just finished reading an article about new OPACs, and although Koha is mentioned, it is said that "Koha is developed by librarians rallied round LIbLime"
16:56 wizzyrea omg
16:56 wizzyrea link
16:56 Ropuch The text is full of error
16:56 Ropuch wizzyrea: I can scan it
16:56 wizzyrea ohh a print article
16:57 gmcharlt what journal?
16:57 Ropuch On monday
16:57 wizzyrea yes, what journal?
16:57 wizzyrea rallied around liblime... <grumble>
16:57 Ropuch Yep
16:57 Ropuch the article is shitty anyway
16:58 Ropuch and i was pretty sure it's just a copy of another one
16:58 wizzyrea where rallied = planning our escape (or rather, hoping that PTFS will save us... we're optimistic)
16:58 Colin left #koha
16:58 Ropuch Our library science is on its way down
16:59 Ropuch The author refers to WordPress as "blogging management system"
16:59 kf g
17:00 kf :)
17:00 kf have a nice weekend all!
17:00 kf left #koha
17:00 Ropuch You too
17:00 Ropuch ;>
17:00 wizzyrea well, it does that too lol
17:00 laurence left #koha
17:00 wizzyrea and that *was* it's original purpose
17:01 nengard what's the citation? I can find a copy of it if I have a citation
17:02 hdl_laptop nengard: could be in polish ;)
17:02 nengard ah
17:02 Ropuch nengard: it is in polish :)
17:02 nengard i could still find it - just not read it :)
17:02 hdl_laptop maybe translated into polish FROM english
17:02 wizzyrea google translate?
17:03 hdl_laptop and maybe ggltranslate
17:03 nengard k - if someone gives me the citation i'll see what i can do
17:03 Ropuch It's from 'Uniwersum pi�miennictwa wobec komunikacji elektronicznej'
17:03 Ropuch [;
17:03 Ropuch[…]uct/1,733568.html
17:03 Ropuch Here
17:03 Ropuch But the article is nothing special, really
17:05 Ropuch Tha main problem is that there's a hole between librarians and 'library scientists' teaching at the University
17:05 nengard it's worth contacting the author and telling them that they're idiots
17:05 Ropuch "scientits' know noyhing about real work
17:06 Ropuch nengard: I intend to
17:06 nengard :)
17:06 nengard cool
17:06 Ropuch They don't like me anyway
17:07 Ropuch I talked too much inconvenient things bacj then when I was workinh in the institute
17:08 Colin joined #koha
17:08 Ropuch But someone had to say that emperor is naked
17:12 jdavidb_away is now known as jdavidb
17:19 wizzyrea So, licensing. Guess I should just send that to the list then?
17:19 wizzyrea or would that ignite a firestorm?
17:20 owen Better to find out now.
17:20 brendan @wunder 93117
17:20 munin brendan: The current temperature in Northwest Goleta, Goleta, California is 11.1�C (9:17 AM PST on February 05, 2010). Conditions: Rain. Humidity: 91%. Dew Point: 10.0�C. Pressure: 29.98 in 1015.1 hPa (Rising). Wind Advisory in effect until 4 PM PST this afternoon...
17:21 brendan @wunder forecast 93117
17:21 munin brendan: The current temperature in Northwest Goleta, Goleta, California is 11.1�C (9:17 AM PST on February 05, 2010). Conditions: Rain. Humidity: 91%. Dew Point: 10.0�C. Pressure: 29.98 in 1015.1 hPa (Rising). Wind Advisory in effect until 4 PM PST this afternoon...
17:22 francharb left #koha
17:23 * jdavidb hands wizzyrea an nomex bodysuit, just in cae.
17:23 Ropuch geez, they even claims that freeware and open source is the same thing
17:23 wizzyrea thanks, I may need it.
17:27 wizzyrea here goes nothin...
17:27 * wizzyrea ducks
17:27 chris_n gmcharlt: email sent
17:27 chris_n and this update would fail if there exist duplicate ids
17:29 * chris_n thinks we need to settle on a licensing scheme to cover all things Koha once and for all
17:29 wizzyrea i agree with you on that, then we'd never have to have this argument again
17:29 wizzyrea >.<
17:30 wizzyrea I am loathe to have any drama surrounding
17:31 wizzyrea it is our shining beacon of kumbaya singing community happiness, and I want to keep it that way
17:31 owen wizzyrea: The difficulty about licensing with the Wiki was based on the long history of different contributors. At least we won't have that with the new site
17:32 wizzyrea not if we get the license statement put on while we still only have 3 proper contributors :)
17:32 wizzyrea easy for gmcharlt, nengard, and me to agree :)
17:33 wizzyrea and chris
17:33 nengard i agree :0
17:33 owen And don't forget someone sent you an image :P
17:33 nengard whatever we decide i agree - i know it will be open :)
17:33 wizzyrea and owen
17:33 wizzyrea ;)
17:33 * owen demands royalties for each pageview
17:33 * wizzyrea glares at owen
17:34 * wizzyrea gets out the MOM glare
17:34 wizzyrea you know the one
17:34 nengard k - lunch time - did patching did documenting - probably have more of both after lunch
17:34 wizzyrea don't make me use it, owen ;)
17:34 owen I know the one, and I know the appropriate response.
17:34 * owen runs away laughing
17:36 jdavidb owen, it's been a pleasure working with you.  You realize you're doomed, right?
17:43 wizzyrea owen you crack me up
17:44 * owen just wishes his DAD glare worked better
17:46 wizzyrea if you're going to kohacon maybe Mr. Wizzyrea can show you his, it's frightful
17:47 * jdavidb never needed a DAD glare with his kids.  Just lucky, I guess.
17:47 wizzyrea this radar is awesome[…]11101111&loop=yes
17:47 wizzyrea yay for backwards moving storms!
17:49 * chris_n glowers at the rain, wishing it were snow :-(
17:51 * jwagner_lunch wonders if it's safe to come back in, with all the glaring and glowering going on....
17:51 jwagner_lunch is now known as jwagner
17:51 wizzyrea lol
17:53 jwagner Personally, I find that just looking over the tops of my glasses usually works....
17:53 wizzyrea
17:53 wizzyrea outside my house earlier
17:53 wizzyrea fluffiest snow ever
17:57 * jdavidb suggests that jwagner look over the tops of her glasses at the snowstorm brewing outside.
17:58 jdavidb We get that fluffy stuff here, too, wizzyrea.  Lindsey had never seen that before the December storm; it does *not* do that in West TX, ever.
17:58 wizzyrea and it's not too cold, which is the part I like
17:58 wizzyrea @wunder 66047
17:58 munin wizzyrea: The current temperature in Lawrence Live-Courtesy of the Khoury's, Lawrence, Kansas is 1.4�C (11:56 AM CST on February 05, 2010). Conditions: Snow. Humidity: 100%. Dew Point: 1.0�C. Windchill: 1.0�C. Pressure: 29.88 in 1011.7 hPa (Falling). Winter Weather Advisory in effect until noon CST today...
17:59 wizzyrea above freezing, even
17:59 wizzyrea which means you can go out and PLAY!!!
17:59 jdavidb @wunder 20852
17:59 munin jdavidb: The current temperature in Flower Valley, Rockville, Maryland is 2.9�C (12:53 PM EST on February 05, 2010). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 73%. Dew Point: -1.0�C. Windchill: 3.0�C. Pressure: 29.94 in 1013.8 hPa (Steady). Winter Storm Warning in effect until 10 PM EST Saturday...
17:59 jdavidb :D
18:00 * jwagner sneers at the storm. I've seen worse!
18:05 brendan left #koha
18:08 Colin left #koha
18:15 chris morning
18:15 owen Hi chris, I hope you're on the mend?
18:15 chris as long as i keep taking the drugs and getting rest should be all good
18:16 jwagner chris, a tip from one who's been there -- don't try coding on drugs :-)
18:16 jwagner (And all sympathies for the pain!)
18:19 chris its actually eating is the hard part, but i have to take the drugs with food
18:20 jwagner I can imagine.  Does ice cream count as food?
18:20 chris owen:
18:20 chris jwagner: yeah its actually good, dairy is good for lining your stomach
18:21 owen Are you able to change the markup of the last <li> ?
18:21 owen <li class="radio">
18:21 chris its the not being able to open your mouth wide enough to get the spoon in that is annoying
18:21 chris can do
18:21 owen I would also remove the "border: 1px solid #EEE" from the fieldset CSS
18:22 chris fixed the li, editing the css now
18:22 chris border: 1px solid #EEE;
18:22 chris that line?
18:23 owen yeah, I don't think you need that border
18:23 chris delete it totally?
18:23 chris okie dokie
18:25 chris hmm took that out, but there must be another fieldset one
18:25 chris cos now the border is bigger :)
18:25 owen Oh sorry, didn't anticipate the default.
18:26 owen border : 0;
18:26 chris wil do
18:27 pianohacker joined #koha
18:27 pianohacker nengard++
18:28 nengard no prob - you just have to tackle a few things i didn't know how to do :)
18:28 chris got it
18:28 brendan joined #koha
18:29 nengard pianohacker you should also probably report bugs for all of the items you decided to not include in the sys prefs because they didn't work or whatever
18:29 chris ok, i think that is good to go now
18:30 chris if someone who is planning to come wants to test the form out, that would be sweet :)
18:30 schuster wizzyrea is probably on it!
18:32 chris heh
18:34 Ropuch Hi chris
18:35 chris hi Ropuch
18:49 * chris_n greets chris
18:49 chris_n good to see you getting back well
18:49 nicomo left #koha
18:58 chris
18:59 jwagner chris, you aren't leaving your sickbed to go frolic, are you???
19:00 chris hehe i shouldnt, but the kids would love that
19:00 chris and sickbed is crowded with them all in it too hehe
19:00 jwagner Let Laurel take them while you get some peace and quiet :-)
19:10 wizzyrea seems to work!!
19:10 chris cool
19:11 chris yep, and you are stored in the db
19:11 chris officially registered now
19:11 wizzyrea yessss
19:12 Ropuch Lucky ;>
19:14 jwagner I wanna go :-(
19:15 * jwagner pouts
19:15 Ropuch I;m just writing a reply to some poor written article - scriblio works regardles of ILS?
19:15 chris in theory yes Ropuch
19:15 Ropuch I know that one can import marc records into it
19:16 pianohacker brb work
19:16 pianohacker left #koha
19:17 Ropuch I've made my point alredy - the author said that Scriblio works only with particular ILS, which is not true (with marc importing)
19:17 chris yeah the point was that it should work with any, might be some mucking around, but it should be possible
19:18 Ropuch Although there's not much sense in integrating it with Koha, I'll give it a try
19:18 Ropuch I'm curious
19:18 Ropuch And want some facts in my reply :)
19:20 chris you might want to talk to the biblibre guys
19:20 chris they did sopac (The drupal one) integration with koha
19:29 wizzyrea nengard:[…]ok-with-wordpress
19:29 nengard WOO HOO
19:29 nengard clicking now
19:29 wizzyrea dk if it will help us, but we'll see
19:30 Ropuch chris: I know, but in the article only Scriblio, Encore and Aqua browser are mentioned
19:32 chris aqua browser is horrible, fwiw
19:32 chris :)
19:32 chris that article is too hard for my brain to comprehend nengard will read again when im not on drugs
19:32 nengard no prob at all - that's why i put it in email so it was saved :)
19:33 wizzyrea yea, I'm not quite comprehending it either lol
19:33 nengard chris i agree - aqua browser is horrible!!
19:33 * wizzyrea was hoping for a plugin :P
19:39 Ropuch chris: I just want to inform the author  that Encore isn't the only one opac-addon that can work with different ILS ;>
19:41 chris yeah, vufind, blacklight, sopac, scriblio etc
19:42 Ropuch I know, but our library scientist don't - yet they are publishing articles without conducting proper searchs first
19:42 Ropuch Which pisses me off
19:43 Ropuch And freeware and open source is equal for them
19:43 nengard wizzyrea i had already looked for a plugin - no luck
19:44 wizzyrea humbug
19:44 Ropuch Ask someone to write one for you ;-)
19:44 nengard Ropuch wanna write one for me :)
19:45 Ropuch last time i was using wp... ;>
19:46 wizzyrea actually that would be a super awesome wordpress plugin
19:46 wizzyrea very useful
19:47 chris[…]lob/master/README
19:53 * chris tries something out
19:54 * owen braces himself
19:58 Ropuch nengard, wizzyrea: what such a plugin is supposed to do? Step-by-step: nengard writes documentation and exports it in this wp-friendly output and then what?
19:59 nengard it needs to translate docbook XML into HTML for dispaly
19:59 nengard display
19:59 wizzyrea what she said
19:59 wizzyrea and then the ability to easily embed that in a WP page
19:59 wizzyrea like
19:59 wizzyrea hmm
19:59 wizzyrea maybe, point the plugin at a git repo that holds the docs
20:00 wizzyrea cache the conversion on a schedule
20:00 Ropuch Ok, I get it
20:00 wizzyrea then a tag to output it in a page
20:00 nengard chris has a script he uses to generate the HTML now
20:00 Ropuch Yes, I saw the docs :)
20:02 Ropuch I was sure docBook can export documents to html
20:02 Ropuch But maybe I was thinking about asciidoc
20:02 pianohackr|work joined #koha
20:03 wizzyrea What I really want, if we're talking pie in the sky...
20:04 wizzyrea is something that git pulls the XML/HTML, converts it, then outputs it on a schedule without anybody having to touch it.
20:04 wizzyrea which might mean that nicole has a special branch for writing, and one for display
20:04 chris ok
20:05 wizzyrea (she probably always does)
20:05 chris so if i have a koha3-2manual.wp.php
20:05 chris how do i upload that to the site?
20:05 Ropuch wizzyrea: wish i was more proficient with php/wordpress
20:05 wizzyrea Ropuch: it's ok
20:06 chris cos i do have the file now, i just dunno how to put it up on the site
20:06 Ropuch Nah, such a plugin is nice challenge
20:06 joetho I have a pretty big php mess on my own server that I don't have time to troubleshoot
20:07 wizzyrea this is just a php script? or a plugin?
20:07 chris who knows
20:07 wizzyrea lol
20:07 wizzyrea send it to me plox :)
20:07 chris its what that docbook-kit generated for me
20:07 wizzyrea AH
20:07 chris to your nekls address?
20:07 wizzyrea ya
20:07 * owen suspects CanBookBeRenewed is messing up somewhere but can't figure out where
20:08 joetho chris- the cowboy way would be to put your html directory into a zip file and send it to liz to post as a directory
20:08 * owen sees an empty "renew" column on for a patron with checkouts from today
20:09 chris on its way
20:09 wizzyrea ty ty
20:09 wizzyrea totally new territory for me, sorry
20:09 joetho I think that the 3.2 activity of the last few days is going to make the 3.2 dox pretty popular
20:09 chris probably missing all the images
20:09 wizzyrea possibly
20:09 chris but that shouldnt be hard to fix
20:10 chris just wanna see how horrible it looks :)
20:10 owen Can anyone confirm? Renew column empty on checkout page for patrons with checkouts from today?
20:10 joetho so put a disclaimer that the dox project is being moved so may look a little rough
20:11 chris did you know liz@ doesnt work, you should fix that :-)
20:11 wizzyrea haha. oh sigh.
20:11 wizzyrea lrea does though ;)
20:11 chris yep, on its way to the right address now
20:11 wizzyrea woot!
20:12 wizzyrea hey look at that
20:12 nengard i wanna see!! :)
20:12 nengard where do i go to see?
20:14 joetho
20:14 nengard LOL - not that silly :) that's empty
20:14 joetho well NOW it is
20:14 wizzyrea no, I mean, email at the speed of light >.>
20:14 wizzyrea nm
20:14 wizzyrea just a min lol keep your panties on
20:15 nengard that saying is so silly :) hehe
20:15 nengard i love the manual and all -- but not that much
20:15 joetho but I bet that's where it will be soon, and my panties are not moving, regardless
20:15 nengard LOL
20:15 * jdavidb did *not* need to know about joetho's panties.
20:17 joetho can't you use an html directory in wp?
20:17 Ropuch Warning: require(../../../wp-blog-header.php) [function.require]: failed to open stream: No such file or directory in /home/koha-community/public_html/wp-cont​ent/themes/cordobo-green-park-2/docs.php on line 8
20:18 joetho although I am one to talk, my php project on my server at has been dead in the water for months
20:18 wizzyrea hmm
20:18 wizzyrea yes yes
20:18 wizzyrea sheesh
20:18 wizzyrea lol
20:18 wizzyrea try it now
20:18 wizzyrea it seems to have put some junk in
20:18 wizzyrea but it is there
20:18 nengard ick - and the bullets aren't there
20:19 wizzyrea yes, that is probably a function of the kit we used
20:19 joetho well it IS friday afternoon
20:19 nengard also it's all on one page - and that's a BUTTLOAD of content for one page ... the old script Chris used at least spit it into pages
20:19 wizzyrea yea, relax chum, we'll get there ;)
20:20 wizzyrea i know it's exciting :)
20:20 joetho I wonder if it would be better to make it a freestanding directory, completely out of the wp thing.
20:20 nengard not -unrelaxed
20:20 wizzyrea mmm probably not
20:20 nengard just pointing things out :)
20:20 Ropuch Maybe I'll set up a wordpress and read some xslt docs
20:20 wizzyrea not if you want it to match the rest of the site
20:20 wizzyrea which I think we do
20:21 nengard wizzrea i can apply the same CSS to the manual as the one we use on WP
20:21 nengard and then it will look seamless
20:21 joetho those big bars on the side?
20:21 nengard the reason the manual looked the way it did on Chris' server was cause of the CSS I wrote up/edited
20:21 wizzyrea Ah
20:21 wizzyrea doesn't matter to me, the link to the theme is at the bottom of every page
20:22 chris lemme try something gimme 5 mins
20:22 nengard brb
20:27 chris yeah with some work you could marry manual.css and style.css into something useful
20:29 nengard that's what i figured
20:29 nengard also we would want to remove the right column from the manual for space sake
20:29 nengard and just have the header and footer from the wp theme
20:29 chris not me tho :) but when someone does, and updates the css in git, my script will start using it
20:30 chris then i could just scp the dir somewhere
20:30 chris but now im off to rinse my mouth with saltwater
20:30 joetho We should all rinse our mouths with saltwater
20:30 brendan yummy saltwater
20:30 brendan @wunder 93117
20:30 munin brendan: The current temperature in Northwest Goleta, Goleta, California is 11.6�C (12:22 PM PST on February 05, 2010). Conditions: Rain. Humidity: 91%. Dew Point: 10.0�C. Pressure: 29.95 in 1014.1 hPa (Falling). Wind Advisory in effect until 4 PM PST this afternoon...
20:30 joetho make mine a double
20:31 brendan should be flooding munin -> not high winds
20:31 chris_n @wunder 28334
20:31 munin chris_n: The current temperature in Dunn, North Carolina is 5.9�C (3:25 PM EST on February 05, 2010). Conditions: Rain. Humidity: 92%. Dew Point: 5.0�C. Windchill: 3.0�C. Pressure: 29.44 in 996.8 hPa (Falling). Flood Watch in effect through late tonight...
20:31 brendan chris_n munin got that one right for you
20:31 nengard i'll look into it and see if I can get the stylesheet working on the copy on your site chris
20:31 nengard when does it update? I'll need to see it in action to see if I did it right :)
20:31 joetho @wunder lawrence, ks
20:31 munin joetho: The current temperature in Channel 6 Downtown, Lawrence, Kansas is 0.6�C (2:29 PM CST on February 05, 2010). Conditions: Light Snow. Humidity: 95%. Dew Point: -0.0�C. Windchill: 1.0�C. Pressure: 29.84 in 1010.4 hPa (Rising).
20:32 nengard @wunder 19030
20:32 munin nengard: The current temperature in JAT Observatory, Fairless Hills, Pennsylvania is 2.7�C (3:15 PM EST on February 05, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 42%. Dew Point: -9.0�C. Windchill: 3.0�C. Pressure: 30.13 in 1020.2 hPa (Falling). Winter Storm Warning in effect from 6 PM this evening to 7 PM EST Saturday...
20:32 jdavidb @wunder 20852
20:32 joetho @wunder mission, ks
20:32 munin jdavidb: The current temperature in Flower Valley, Rockville, Maryland is 1.1�C (3:23 PM EST on February 05, 2010). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 80%. Dew Point: -2.0�C. Windchill: 1.0�C. Pressure: 29.83 in 1010.0 hPa (Steady). Winter Storm Warning in effect until 10 PM EST Saturday...
20:32 munin joetho: The current temperature in Overland Park, Overland Park, Kansas is 0.4�C (2:15 PM CST on February 05, 2010). Conditions: Light Snow. Humidity: 95%. Dew Point: -0.0�C. Windchill: 0.0�C. Pressure: 29.79 in 1008.7 hPa (Rising). Winter Weather Advisory in effect until 6 PM CST this evening...
20:32 nengard joetho -when your advisory ends mine starts
20:32 jdavidb "overcast", my missing foot!  It is that, but how come it doesn't say "Snow"?
20:32 brendan nengard you getting any snow yet?
20:33 nengard not yet, looks like it will start after dark
20:33 joetho my girlfriend is driving to Lawrence this afternoon, I *think* to see Liz
20:33 joetho either that, or the dance troupe downtown
20:34 wizzyrea ooh la la
20:35 wizzyrea nengard: no actual content, but this is what it could look like
20:35 wizzyrea
20:36 nengard yup yup
20:36 nengard that's what i was thinking
20:36 nengard guess we just ignore 'sidebar.php' and ta da it's done
20:37 joetho I kind of like it in Latin.
20:37 wizzyrea that and the content divs
20:40 moodaepo @wunder 56001
20:40 munin moodaepo: The current temperature in South on Monks, Mankato, Minnesota is 1.6�C (2:35 PM CST on February 05, 2010). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 81%. Dew Point: -1.0�C. Windchill: -3.0�C. Pressure: 30.07 in 1018.2 hPa (Falling).
20:41 brendan hi moodaepo
20:45 chris @wunder wellington nz
20:45 munin chris: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 19.0�C (9:00 AM NZDT on February 06, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 83%. Dew Point: 16.0�C. Pressure: 30.36 in 1028 hPa (Steady).
20:45 jwagner It's been snowing for over 4 hours, but it's finally starting to stick rather than just turning wet.  Now, about that two feet of snow forecast....
20:45 chris_n wow.. documentation in latin... very good nengard ;-)
20:45 nengard i know - i'm good :)
20:46 chris_n heatwave moodaepo?
20:46 nengard chris wizzyrea i just realized - we're not taking about editing the css - we're talking about putting an include at the top and bottom of the manual - to include the head and the footer -- is that possible?
20:47 nengard some of it is CSS ...
20:47 wizzyrea dk why it wouldn't be
20:47 nengard but those are the big parts
20:47 moodaepo brendan allo
20:47 nengard wizzyrea - okay it's friday my brain is fried - it's been a crazy week for me - lots of work - so maybe i think about this tomorrow or next week
20:48 wizzyrea nengard: i'm pretty sure it can be done
20:48 wizzyrea :)
20:48 nengard for now - if we can get the manual up in any searchable format that would make me happy - we can make it pretty later - as long as it's searchable and readable i'm a-ok
20:48 wizzyrea just stay safe in the nasty weather
20:48 nengard i'm home under a blanket already :)
20:48 moodaepo chris_n: You betcha it's usually the other end of brendan's temp gauge up here
20:48 nengard and there is no snow here yet - it will come tonight
20:48 brendan but during the summer - you will most likely beat me on a daily basis
20:49 brendan my temp doesn't change much all year
20:49 moodaepo Yea damn swamp country er I mean land of lakes.
20:50 wizzyrea mmmm butter
20:50 jdavidb butter, wizzyrea?
20:50 wizzyrea yea, land o lakes butter?
20:50 wizzyrea you may not have this where you are
20:50 jdavidb ah...
20:51 jdavidb Yeah, we have that brand here; just not what I buy.
20:52 pianohackr|work homemade butter is also good
20:52 wizzyrea yes, indeed
20:52 wizzyrea but you have to have VERY fresh cream to make it
20:52 wizzyrea like, from the cow, practically
20:52 wizzyrea and un-homogenized
20:53 Ropuch docbook2html produces quite nice output with images
20:53 wizzyrea I mean you can do it with heavy whipping, but it takes a while
20:53 wizzyrea Ropuch: link?
20:53 jwagner I grew up on a farm.  Cream fresh from the morning milking on the breakfast cereal.  Yum.
20:53 mib_vwww48 joined #koha
20:53 pianohackr|work wizzyrea: Hmm. In a churn, or an electric mixer?
20:53 Ropuch wizzyrea: gimme sec, i have it locally
20:53 wizzyrea electric mixer
20:53 jdavidb I've been trying to "slow-food" more.  Found some lovely local providers at the Dupont Circle farmer's market.  yummmmy butter n cheese...
20:53 wizzyrea o cool
20:53 chris Ropuch: like this[…]l_en/ch01s04.html
20:54 wizzyrea oh that is pretty
20:54 chris thats what my script does
20:54 chris
20:54 chris and i have a search
20:54 wizzyrea you don't want that to stay on your server, right chris?
20:54 chris nope
20:54 Ropuch chris: yes
20:54 chris i only have 40 gig a month on my home machine
20:54 Ropuch Kinda
20:55 wizzyrea yea, we don't want that
20:55 wizzyrea bandwidth for KLOW is very cheap
20:55 wizzyrea pennies/mo
20:56 chris
20:56 chris try it out, its pretty fast
20:58 chris (uses xapian)
20:58 Ropuch I must talk to my boss and our IT guy
20:58 Ropuch Maybe we can spare some bandwitch
20:59 Ropuch s/bandwitch/bandwith
20:59 chris time omindex --db default/ --url / /var/www/stats/manual_en
20:59 chris real    0m0.564s
20:59 chris super fast indexer
21:00 Ropuch Simply running docbook2html koha3-2manual.xml produces
21:01 Ropuch 4.01 Transitional
21:01 Ropuch Source is really ugly ;>
21:02 nengard left #koha
21:05 owen Wow ugly is right
21:05 Ropuch I was trying to be nice when I said 'ugly' ;>
21:06 Ropuch But let's what tidy can do about it
21:11 chris_n enough fun for one day.... bbl
21:13 jwagner Enjoy the snow, everyone who lives in the target region.  The rest of you, enjoy whatever the weather gods send you :-)
21:13 jwagner left #koha
21:14 * owen leaves to brave the terrifying, er, rain.
21:15 owen left #koha
21:26 jdavidb left #koha
21:30 Ropuch Ok, much better after tidy
21:52 wizzyrea ok, giving up
21:52 wizzyrea going home, this snow is just silly
21:52 wizzyrea have a good weekend, stay safe east-coasters :)
21:53 wizzyrea left #koha
22:04 ricardo joined #koha
22:04 ricardo Hi everyone!
22:06 ricardo Does anyone have the same problem that I do: in 3.0.X, a bulkmarcimport seems to get slower as it progresses loading an ISO file with some tens of thousands of records. That is, the first 1000 records are quickly imported, but the next 1000 records take a bit longer than that... and when it has loaded 10000 records or so, it seems to be "crawling"...
22:08 ricardo (this is a Virtual Machine with 512 Megs RAM allocated, running SUSE, if that's relevant)
22:09 schuster ZEBRA has probably kicked in causing things to slowwwww downnnn...
22:10 schuster with that tip I'm gone for the weekend!
22:11 schuster left #koha
22:12 ricardo Rats... Schuster has given a friendly tip and then run off. I would reply that I'm NOT using Zebra.
22:13 joetho ricardo - does your system seem normal otherwise?
22:14 joetho the slowdown seems to be triggered by the import?
22:14 ricardo joetho: Yep
22:15 ricardo Cpu(s):  9.4%us, 13.4%sy,  0.0%ni,  0.3%id, 74.9%wa,  0.0%hi,  2.0%si,  0.0%st
22:15 ricardo Mem:    505820k total,   498460k used,     7360k free,   134544k buffers
22:15 joetho hmmm
22:15 ricardo Swap:   771080k total,       88k used,   770992k free,   224892k cached
22:15 joetho what kind of shape are the records in?
22:16 ricardo joetho: I think they are a bit rectangular...  ;-)
22:16 joetho I wonder if some records have huge fields
22:16 joetho not long and pointy?
22:16 joetho isosceles trapezoidal?
22:17 ricardo LOL!
22:17 ricardo Eheh... OK, seriously: some of them have relatively large abstracts, but not many of them, I think
22:17 ricardo @add joetho: what kind of shape are the records in?
22:17 munin ricardo: Error: The command "add" is available in the Alias, Bugzilla, Herald, Lart, News, Quote, and Todo plugins.  Please specify the plugin whose command you wish to call by using its name as a command before "add".
22:18 joetho I have experienced slowdowns with other processes involving large numbers of giant records, but I haven't imported tens of thousands of records at once
22:18 joetho and anyway I don't think this causing your slowdown
22:18 joetho is this a production server?
22:18 ricardo joetho: Right... I wonder if I broke down the ISO file in several ones, would that accelerate the process? Not sure
22:18 ricardo @quote add joetho: what kind of shape are the records in?
22:18 munin ricardo: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command).
22:19 joetho HA
22:19 joetho I guess I get to say anything I want.
22:19 ricardo LOL!
22:20 gmcharlt joetho: no you don't :)
22:20 gmcharlt @quote add joetho: what kind of shape are the records in?
22:20 munin gmcharlt: The operation succeeded.  Quote #53 added.
22:20 ricardo gmcharlt: LOL!
22:20 ricardo gmcharlt++
22:20 ricardo ;-)
22:20 joetho well I do on that OTHER channel
22:21 ricardo gmcharlt: Any tips / info /suspicions regarding my issue?
22:21 joetho anyway, I was going to suggest smaller imports if possible,
22:21 ricardo joetho: *nod*
22:21 Ropuch Anyone proficient with regexp/php?
22:21 joetho then if one batch hung up, why, blame the records
22:21 Ropuch joetho: you look like one! ;>
22:21 joetho I look like a small import?
22:22 joetho I suppose.
22:22 gmcharlt ricardo: bulkmarcimport?  try adding a --commit 200 to the command line
22:22 ricardo joetho: So, the general conclusion is: "Size matters"?  ;-)
22:22 Ropuch joetho: you look like someone who nows php/regexps ;>
22:22 joetho wow, it must be Friday afternoon where you are
22:22 Ropuch s/nows/knows
22:22 joetho nope, not really
22:23 ricardo gmcharlt: I'll have to wait a bit before doing that (it's importing now), but yes, I'll try that in a while
22:23 ricardo joetho: Friday, 22H21 here
22:23 ricardo (yep, still at work...)
22:23 gmcharlt another thing to check - look at the process in top, see how much memory it's consuming
22:23 joetho west coast US?
22:23 ricardo joetho: West Coast, Portugal  ;-)
22:24 gmcharlt if it's bunches, there may be a memory leak involved, in which case it's slowing down because its abusing swap
22:24 ricardo ricardo: "27097 root      20   0 98.7m  87m 5088 S  1.3 17.7  23:27.18 bulkmarcimport."
22:24 ricardo gmcharlt: "27097 root      20   0 98.7m  87m 5088 S  1.3 17.7  23:27.18 bulkmarcimport."
22:24 gmcharlt was wondering why you were talking to yourself
22:24 gmcharlt but no, memory consumption looks OK
22:24 ricardo gmcharlt: Oh... I was just talking to my imaginary friend ;-)
22:25 ricardo It's around 18%
22:26 ricardo Ropuch: I haven't touched PHP in several years... But, if you wish, you may ask the question regarding "Regexps"
22:26 Ropuch I'm trying some really simple thing
22:27 Ropuch I have html file and want to extract everything between <body class="foo"></body>
22:28 ricardo gmcharlt: "commit the number of records to wait before performing a 'commit' operation" ... I'm NOT using "commit" and that might explain why this is taking this long (probably it's creating a very large "commit stack" now - my term... I don't know what is the "official" expression)
22:29 ricardo Ropuch: Hmmm.... I guess you can do that with RegExp, but I'm not sure if that will be the most efficient way of solving that problem. Let me try it something with some RegExp online tester
22:32 Ropuch ricardo don't bother, I'll try to figure/google it put myself :)
22:33 ricardo Ropuch: OK :)  If you can do that in Perl instead, I'm betting that there's some module in CPAN to help you. PHP also has some Regexp functions (and there's also PEAR that is a *lot* smaller than CPAN, but may also have some good module)
22:43 ricardo gmcharlt: I got fed up and aborted the process... Here's the times for the aborted process:
22:43 ricardo 21400 records
22:44 ricardo 578m32.482s
22:44 ricardo (that's almost 10 Hours for 21400 records)
22:45 ricardo I'm now using "--commit". Let's see if that's faster. If it's not, I'll run this again, redirect output to a file and head home
22:47 pianohackr|work ricardo: Do you have screen installed?
22:47 pianohackr|work You could run it inside a screen session, detach, then reattach later and see how it was doing
22:48 ricardo pianohackr|work: That's a very nice tip. I almost never used "screen", but this seems a terrific "use case" to use it
22:49 ricardo (I believe that, if there's a memory leak, it's persistent. Let me reboot this baby)
22:50 ricardo I know, I know: "Linux machines don't need reboots". But, when it's almost 23H and I'm still at work, I'll try anything
22:58 chris another thing to try ricardo
22:59 chris turn nozebra off (dont install zebra, just turn it off)
22:59 chris try the import
22:59 ricardo I think I'll try that *right now*. Thanks for the tip
22:59 chris it might be the building the nozebra index gets slower the more records are inserted
23:00 chris if so then you can do the imprt, then turn nozebra back on and do the
23:00 pianohackr|work chris: if index rebuilding is the problem, wouldn't just disable the cronjob fix it? I admit I understand nozebra as little as possible
23:00 ricardo chris: Sounds like a plan to me  :)
23:00 pianohackr|work s/disable/disabling/
23:01 chris pianohackr|work: nozebra doesnt use a cron job
23:01 ricardo chris: Holy Smokes! You just switched ON the "Turbo Mode"!  :D
23:01 chris it indexes continuously
23:01 chris so evertime you change something it indexes that change
23:02 chris hence nozebra is only for small record sets
23:02 chris ricardo: that means it will load fast, but the rebuild_nozebra will probably take a whi;e
23:02 brendan heya pianohackr|work
23:02 ricardo chris: *nod*
23:03 ricardo But this is A LOT faster. It's loading about 100 records every 3 seconds
23:03 chris that sounds about right
23:04 ricardo chris: Right... In the original one, it was taking about 5 minutes or so (per 100 records) in the later "batches"  :S
23:04 chris yeah the way the indexes work, it has to scan them ... so as they grow it just gets slower and slower
23:05 Nate Happy Weekend everyone!
23:05 chris heya Nate
23:05 ricardo chris: Is it safe to abort "" if I see that it's very slow? (And run it again, later, "sending" it to the background)
23:05 Nate hiya chris
23:05 Nate heard you were under the weather
23:05 chris ricardo: yep, the search wont work so well until its done tho
23:06 ricardo chris: Nod
23:06 chris Nate: getting better
23:06 pianohackr|work hi brendan
23:06 Nate Thats great to hear chris
23:06 ricardo chris: BEFORE running "" I should turn "NoZebra" back on, right? Or is it OK to only enable it after running "" (I guess not)
23:07 chris yeah before, to be safe
23:07 ricardo chris: right
23:09 ricardo Finished running
23:09 ricardo 22708 MARC records done in 478.975821018219 seconds
23:09 chris thats more like it
23:09 ricardo So, that's about 8 Minutes "against" more than 10 HOURS (!)
23:10 ricardo I call that a "slight" performance improvement!  ;-)
23:10 ricardo THANKS A LOT CHRIS! :D  (CAPS fully intended, eheh)
23:11 ricardo Turning NoZebra back on
23:12 ricardo Doing Backup of Koha's MySQL database ...
23:14 ricardo Running ""
23:15 ricardo "Building BIBLIO indexes".... seems to be running quickly. Good. BRB
23:26 ricardo chris: Done  :)
23:27 ricardo (it took 13 minutes to run "")
23:27 chris cool
23:27 ricardo chris: Way!  :)
23:28 ricardo chris: Again, many thanks. I wonder if this would warrant a patch to "" to disable NoZebra during its execution
23:30 pianohackr|work ricardo: A patch would at least be accepted. Others might notice issues we don't, but saving the current value of a syspref, setting to some value, doing stuff, then resetting has been done in a few batch jobs, I believe
23:32 ricardo pianohackr|work: *nod*... I could try to do that, but I won't probably be able to even *start* working on it before next Wednesday
23:32 pianohackr|work Never any hurry :)
23:32 ricardo :)
23:33 ricardo OK. I think that's the time for me to go home (23H30... gee).
23:33 chris have a good weekend
23:33 ricardo gmcharlt: Thanks for trying to help
23:34 ricardo chris: Many thanks... And if you'd like me to buy you a Book or something, just name it!  :)
23:34 chris no worries,just help someone else sometime :)
23:35 ricardo chris: Sure!  :)
23:36 joetho left #koha
23:39 ricardo I'll now follow joetho example. Have a great weekend everyone!  :)
23:39 ricardo left #koha
23:41 gmcharlt hmm ... + shouldn't be behaving like that.
23:43 chris with nozebra on the indexes are being built/updated after every record is added
23:43 gmcharlt the entirety of nozebra index?
23:44 chris nope, but the bigger it is, the slower it takes to update
23:44 * gmcharlt looks at, light dawns
23:45 gmcharlt grr
23:46 gmcharlt there's a reason why I try to pretend nozebra doesn't exist most of the time - and I keep rediscovering it
23:46 chris it doesnt actually use that
23:46 chris its the modzebra in Biblio
23:46 chris but yeah it locks tables and does all sorts of madness
23:46 gmcharlt exactly, that's what the light dawning was about
23:47 chris so its much faster to just build that indexes after
23:50 gmcharlt any, thanks for helping ricardo
23:50 chris np
23:52 Nate left #koha
23:56 brendan great to have chris back

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