IRC log for #koha, 2010-01-15

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
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02:49 Jo afternoon all
02:53 Jo thinking about barcodes for patron cards in Koha 3.2 does "Code 25 Interleaved 2 of 5" sound like the 'type' we are after
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02:56 Joann or code 39 ...
02:56 Joann and does it even matter :)
02:57 chris_n2 Joann: code39 most likely
02:57 chris_n2 although it can do coop25
02:57 chris_n2 which is what I think code25 is
02:58 chris_n2 maybe
02:58 Joann Thanks Chris.
02:58 Joann commercial printer is suggesting code 39 - just wanted to check.
02:58 chris_n2 code39 allows for the greatest breadth of chars
02:58 Joann and the labelgenerator produces code39?
02:59 chris_n2 25 only allows digits 0-9
02:59 chris_n2 yes
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02:59 Joann there you go then : we need an alpha character :)
02:59 Joann 39 it is.
02:59 Joann Thanks for your help
02:59 chris_n2 we have cataloged nearly 7000 items printing our own code39 labels from koha
03:00 chris_n2 np
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03:41 Amit heya brendan
03:42 Amit good morning #koha
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04:10 chris_n2 howdy Amit
04:10 Amit hi chris_n2
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05:15 chris_n2 g'night #koha
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07:03 Ropuch Morning #koha
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07:54 Amit heya nicomo, Ropuch
07:54 nicomo hi Amit, Ropuch
08:02 paul_p hello #koha
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08:05 toins hello all
08:26 kf joined #koha
08:26 kf good morning #koha
08:30 magnus good morning all
08:34 nicomo morning magnus
08:34 nicomo and kf
08:34 magnus morning nicomo et al
08:36 kf hi magnus and nicomo
08:37 magnus hiya kf
08:55 Amit heya kf, magnus
08:55 magnus hi Amit
08:56 kf hi Amit
09:01 chris hi all
09:05 chris[…]management-system
09:12 kf hi chris
09:12 chris hiya kf
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11:07 Amit heya chris
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11:52 magnus for those not on twitter:[…]e-1-january-2010/
11:52 magnus nengard++
11:56 kf nengard++
11:57 kf reading it atm, great news :)
12:08 Amit happy weekend to all
12:09 chris_n2 you too Amit
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12:13 chris_n2 nengard++
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12:51 magnus nengard:[…]10-01-15#i_373568
12:51 magnus ;-)
12:52 nengard magnus - you know I was waiting all week for today to come so it would be published - and today I completely forgot!!! :)
12:52 nengard glad you all like it
12:52 nengard Now i need ot send it out to the mailing list ;)
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12:55 paul_p nengard: ++ for the koha newspaper. Can I suggest to have the chapter titles in the document as well ? (Events, News from libraries, Tips & Tricks)
12:55 nengard paul_p you can suggest anything!! :) And I will put them in :)
12:56 paul_p nengard: so, I suggest that ;-)
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12:56 nengard hehe - I'll get right on that - however it won't be in the email which has already been sent ...
12:56 paul_p mmm... someone from ptfs... hi jdavidb !
12:56 paul_p good morning !
12:57 jdavidb Bonjour, paul_p! :)  Happy Friday.
12:57 jwagner paul_p, I'm hurt! :-)
12:57 paul_p oh ! jwagner, you're here too !
12:57 jwagner Bonjour!
12:58 magnus good morning j-people ;-)
13:00 jdavidb Hi, magnus.  :)
13:00 hdl_laptop hi
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13:00 nengard can you guys tell me how to update the topic for the channel? I remember chris saying that anyone can do it
13:00 jdavidb The /topic command may be helpful, nengard.
13:01 nengard jdavidb do i use that command and then the topic?
13:01 nengard cause just that command shows me the topic :)
13:01 jdavidb (Here I am, doing reference work for a *librarian*....)  I would suggest a quick google search for "+irc +topic".
13:01 jdavidb ;-)
13:02 kf nengard: can you open the links to projects, libraries... in the newsletter in a new window?
13:03 nengard kf - i can
13:04 jdavidb (nengard:   try   /topic #koha <newtopicstring>  )
13:05 kf nengard: sorry, just a suggestion, it really looks great
13:05 nengard no prob at all - doing it now with paul_p's edits
13:07 kf thx!
13:10 brendan Later everyone - hopefully we see some of you in Boston.  If not we'll be back :)
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13:19 nengard okay updates made
13:19 nengard thanks all for submitting news!! you guys helped me make this great!!
13:20 nengard community++ :)
13:21 magnus nengard: i could do "koha in norway" for the next issue, if you are interested? won't be very long... ;-)
13:21 nengard Yes Yes Yes :)
13:21 nengard we don't need long
13:21 nengard I personally think shorter entries are better
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13:23 chris_n g'morning
13:25 schuster chris_n - was it you that indicated that you are printing barcodes for items?
13:25 chris_n it sure was
13:26 chris_n nearly 7k so far without too much difficulty
13:26 schuster What type of printer are you using to print those just curuios.
13:26 * chris_n is sure that is a small number for TX ;-)
13:26 chris_n om
13:26 schuster om is that a brand or?  and it lets you print one at a time?
13:26 chris_n a Ricoh AP400N
13:26 chris_n no
13:27 chris_n this is a network laser
13:27 chris_n we print sheets
13:28 schuster hm...  Guess I should develop a printer that allows you to print labels one at a time and isn't heat sensative!  We are using the Dymo labelwriters to print spine
13:28 chris_n Avery 5160
13:28 schuster labels one at a time, but after about 5 years or so some of the labels are fading depending on the tape the librarian may have put on them.
13:28 chris_n we use a clear book tape from 3M iirc
13:29 chris_n I'm not sure how they'll do in the long run
13:29 schuster We used to be using dot matrix printers but they were so big, these dymos are nice.  We use JLAR-crystal clear which has been a great tape for over 14 years.
13:29 chris_n but I would think that thermal labels might present that sort of problem over time
13:29 * chris_n wonders if that tape is cheaper than 3M's
13:30 schuster yes the thermal depending if the glue on the tape is a gas type adhesive accelerates the fading.
13:30 schuster We even had some nock of labels that we put on books and after a week they all faded so we went back to the Dymo brand.
13:31 chris_n we had some issues with the type cracking on some of our labels
13:31 schuster My test was to print labels and put different tapes on them and hang them in my car for a week in the summer to see which ones faded.
13:31 chris_n but a new fuser unit corrected that
13:32 chris_n probably a good test considering that is where many books end up residing while check out I'm sure
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13:33 chris_n morning owen
13:33 owen Hi
13:35 schuster Hey owen!
13:35 owen Good morning jdavidb and jwagner, nice to have you back :)
13:35 jwagner Thanks owen.  We missed you guys :-(
13:36 schuster owen - have you had any brainstorms on my question the other day about an icon driven search? and limiting to a specific location?
13:36 schuster (kidspac for k-3rd grade)
13:37 schuster You may not have given it any thought and that is ok too.
13:41 owen schuster: /msg'ing you.
13:44 Topic for #koha is now Koha Newsletter #1 Released:
13:46 owen nengard++ # for the Koha newsletter!
13:46 nengard thanks owen
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13:51 chris_n shouldn't installer rewrite the zebra startup scripts even in dev mode?
13:53 chris_n :q
13:53 chris_n opps :-)
13:55 magnus trying to close irc without saving?
13:55 magnus :-)
13:55 chris_n heh
13:55 chris_n xchat does not seem to take vim commands well
13:59 jdavidb Chatzilla doesn't, either, chris_n.  I've tried, repeatedly.
13:59 chris_n lol
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14:20 owen Regarding the kudos discussion earlier, I'm wondering the same thing as brendan: "I don't see much incentive for a developer/"vendor" to join - if he's not consider a full member."
14:22 * chris_n gave some feedback with the hope that there will be some clarification/reconsideration
14:40 wizzyrea >.>[…]new-day-for-koha/
14:45 chris_n wizzyrea++
14:45 chris_n very nicely said
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14:46 wizzyrea ty, was tired of being quiet :/
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14:47 magnus wizzyrea++ # “coopetition” is good - did you come up with it or is it an established term?
14:47 wizzyrea nope, I got it from gmcharlt, who got it from... somewhere else
14:47 wizzyrea he told me but I can't remember
14:48 wizzyrea he said it at kohacon, stuck with me :
14:48 wizzyrea :)
14:48 magnus ok, nice!
14:52 slef coopetition is a fairly common idea among cooperatives
14:52 slef we have cooperation among cooperatives as a basic principle, but sometimes we are selling similar services
14:53 wizzyrea that was my understanding of the term
14:54 slef am mildly amused by this week's machinations because I'm pretty sure at least one of those has asked if the co-op was for sale (which is a #coops comprehension #fail)
14:54 wizzyrea it would be ok if you were wholly amused by this weeks machinations :)
14:55 wizzyrea it certainly triggered a certain amount of nervous, ironic, and gleeful giggling here
14:56 slef no, it's not wholly amusing when one foss player (at least in theory, even if it was going to be abandonware from now on) has been bought by a mixed proprietary+foss player
14:56 slef it's going to be good for our financial goals, but probably bad for our social goals
14:57 slef Have the reasons for the merger been stated explicitly beyond the press release and letter to customers?  I don't really buy that spin.
14:58 owen Not that I've heard.
14:58 owen Let the speculation run wild.
14:59 owen I think it was getting on time to write off that player as a foss player, fwiw.
14:59 slef There's a classic line in the letter where Josh is "impressed by their resources" or something like that.
14:59 * chris_n ducks
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15:00 wizzyrea I"m with owen
15:00 wizzyrea yea well, that's fairly common post-acquisition butt-licking.
15:01 wizzyrea erm, sorry
15:01 owen :P
15:01 chris_n I'd say one company was in its death-spiral and another stepped in and caught it before it hit the deck
15:01 slef That's my impression, based on the experiences that companies clam up as they start the spiral.
15:02 slef owen: like they say about the success of the French Revolution, it was too early to tell.
15:02 slef biab
15:03 nengard wizzyrea++  YOU ROCK!!!! Thank you!!
15:03 * slef basks in the lack of context
15:09 owen I wonder if PTFS Europe's request to be listed on will be approved now?
15:09 slef I wonder if Kyle's request will be approved now.
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15:12 nengard i wonder if the community's request to control the website will be approved so we can work together and decide what gets approved
15:15 chris_n slef: the noise of the free-fall usually drowns out the ability to converse once things are nose down
15:16 slef nengard: do you think PTFS is less worried about being sued by PTFS than LibLime were?
15:16 nengard slef ... huh?
15:17 nengard you mean librarians less worried?
15:18 owen slef is referring to past unpleasantness bewteen LL & PTFS
15:19 nengard oh - i have no clue
15:19 slef yes, owen++, fear of being sued for contraversial remarks about other vendors was ostensibly the reason for kick-banning all non-LL webmasters, wasn't it?
15:20 slef I'm not sure it was ever explicitly said that it was PTFS they feared, but that's my assumption because I think that's the only one ever criticised on the site.
15:20 nengard i thought it was just lack of trust for anyone else
15:20 slef I'm sure I was told it was some legal advice.
15:20 slef Although I don't know who from.
15:20 nengard we were all told things ...
15:21 slef ok, now to sort out a web shop
15:24 rhcl just catching up on reading...looks like wizzyrea put a little bit of cayenne pepper on her bacon this morning
15:33 chris_n heh
15:39 chris_n anybody about running pazpar2?
15:46 kf wizzyrea++ #blog post
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16:17 jwagner Am I correct in believing there is no way to turn off holds overall in the system?  There's a syspref for not allowing them in the OPAC, but there doesn't seem to be any way to turn them off in staff mode.  Would such a switch be desirable?
16:19 owen jwagner: Other than defining zero as the maximum number of holds, I don't think there's a global switch
16:19 owen A global switch would let you hide all the holds links and such
16:20 jwagner owen, yes, that's my problem. I can set the zero for max holds, but the links still show up.  This is a specialized system that will never allow holds.  I could do a screen change to remove the button, but I wondered if others would find a syspref switch useful.
16:21 owen It's conceivable I suppose, but I've never heard a request for it
16:21 jwagner It would only be applicable for special libraries, I think.  I've never heard of a public/academic that didn't want to allow holds.
16:23 owen One of these days I'm going to hear of a Koha using library that doesn't want to check out books, place holds, search for books, or anything at all.
16:23 owen It'll probably be one of your customers jwagner ;)
16:23 jwagner Quite likely -- we do get some very specialized requirements!
16:23 jwagner schuster, you online?
16:24 Ropuch Evening #koha
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16:24 owen Hi Ropuch, how are things in your part of the world?
16:25 Ropuch Good, thanks
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16:32 kf Guten Abend Ropuch :)
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16:38 CGI120 how can I found out my user name and password to start working with Koha?
16:41 owen CGI120: Did you just install Koha?
16:42 CGI120 yes
16:42 hdl_laptop t'is your koha database user name and password
16:44 owen ...which you can find in koha-conf.xml if you've forgotten it.
16:44 Ropuch ...which is in /etc/koha ;>
16:45 owen You'll want to immediately create a patron record with superlibrarian privileges to act as your administrative user.
16:51 * slef merges koha with wordpress on one site, doing Very Evil Things to keep them isolated
16:52 slef at least at a systems security level
16:55 * owen is sifting through all his bug-fix branches trying to find out which have been merged with biblibre-community
16:56 * chris_n wonders why people have a hard time following simple directions
16:57 * chris_n hopes no patches get dropped during the great merge
16:58 owen chris_n: I'm trying to clean house so that I'll know if any of mine have been missed.
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16:59 * owen is flexing his conflict-resolving muscles today
17:00 jwagner owen, that sounds like an ...interesting... avocation.  Or do you just limit it to code conflicts?
17:01 * jwagner has vision of owen as general marriage, work, all-purpose counselor
17:03 chris_n lol
17:04 hdl_laptop owen some more coming soon
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17:14 owen Do y'all use git-mergetool? Useful? If so, what tool do you use?
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17:23 nengard owen - I went through my patches and fixed those that weren't merged into the community branch - so I too did some cleanup
17:30 kf bye #koha and a have a nice weekend everybody
17:30 owen bye kf
17:30 kf left #koha
17:30 * owen doesn't understand how Meld does one any good if you can't see the lines that are being compared
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17:32 schuster jwagner you need something?  I've been busy working with Owen on a special project
17:33 owen Mysterious.
17:33 jwagner no, not really -- I'll catch up with you later.
17:34 schuster OK - well that's all for me today I have meetings all afternoon and then it is a 3 day weekend!!  Monday off!
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17:42 jwagner Question for folks.  The action_logs table records patron edits among other things, and I've used it to produce a list of patrons who had their records touched within X timespan.  How can I get a list of patrons who HAVEN'T had their records touched within X timespan?  There's no timestamp in the borrowers table, and if they haven't had any edits there wouldn't be an entry in action_logs.
17:44 chris_n maybe you could script it and select all from borrowers who were not in action_logs
17:44 moodaepo wizzyrea++ #blog post
17:45 jwagner chris_n, that's vaguely what I was thinking, but couldn't quite grasp the logic I'd use.
17:46 * chris_n thinks action_logs.user should have a fk constraint...
17:50 chris_n jwagner: you might even be able to do it with a sql join
17:51 jwagner Hrmmm.  Will have to dig a bit.  Thanks.
17:52 chris_n you might be able join action_logs.user on borrowers.borrowernumber in a way that would allow you to retrieve records which did not join from the borrowers table
17:52 jwagner I'll ask one of our SQL experts on that one.  (I'm not an expert, I just play one on TV....)
17:53 jwagner But I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something, like a timestamp in some other table or anything.
17:53 jwagner It is the action_logs that I need?
17:53 thd is now known as thd-away
17:55 jwagner is now known as jwagner_lunch
17:55 chris_n borrowers does not have a timestamp field, but probably should have on on update timestamp
17:55 chris_n this would make such reporting much easier I'd think
17:56 chris_n apart from that, I think you are right
17:56 jwagner_lunch Yes, I'd think so -- items & other things have a timestamp, it would be useful for patrons too.
17:56 jwagner_lunch Thanks.  (lunch is calling....)
18:07 chris_n jwagner_lunch: actually, that is over simplified, but action_logs is the table you want I think
18:08 chris yeah left join, and all the rows where the action_logs table is not null and the date there is after a certain time, that will do it
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18:15 cait hi all
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18:22 chris hi cait
18:22 chris_n hi christ
18:22 chris lol
18:23 chris_n jwagner_lunch: something like this might be workable for you:
18:23 owen Now hang on chris_n, he's not RM yet
18:23 chris_n SELECT surname, firstname FROM borrowers WHERE borrowernumber NOT IN (SELECT b.borrowernumber FROM borrowers AS b LEFT JOIN action_logs AS a ON b.borrowernumber = a.object WHERE a.action <> 'CREATE' AND a.timestamp < '2008-03-11') LIMIT 0,10;
18:23 chris_n opps
18:23 chris_n chris, even
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18:23 cait hi chris
18:24 jwagner_lunch is now known as jwagner
18:24 jwagner Thanks, chris_n -- I'll give that a try.
18:24 chris_n you'd have to exclude create actions, because there will be one for every patron
18:26 jwagner I'm trying to do it as a saved report, and it's complaining about the CREATE command.
18:26 chris_n and drop the limit clause of course
18:28 chris_n wow, creating sql reports seems to be busted in HEAD, can anyone confirm that
18:28 chris it wasnt last time i tried
18:29 chris_n om
18:29 chris_n k, it works
18:29 * chris_n was too quick on the trigger there
18:30 chris_n jwagner: yeah, the "security" check is false triggering there
18:30 chris_n that module attempts to keep the user from executing malicious sql
18:31 chris_n ie. DROP, CREATE, etc.
18:31 jwagner I tried stripping out the create section, and then it complained something about return of 1
18:32 chris_n it works here
18:33 chris_n except the limit clause for some reason
18:33 jwagner Just got a version of it to work too.  I dunno....
18:34 chris_n hmm.... the query parser code needs work probably
18:35 * chris_n did some work on that code a while back for the company you guys just acquired :-)
18:35 chris_n it seems that reports wanted a good going over, though iirc
18:35 chris there is patch for the limit
18:35 chris its in the queue
18:35 chris to make the limit actually work
18:35 chris_n cool
18:36 * chris did the initial reports module, when working at the acquired company too
18:37 * owen 's library sponsored initial development of that module at said acquired company
18:38 chris :)
18:38 jwagner So that means we can call on all of you, right???
18:38 * jdavidb points at jwagner and says, "What she said!"
18:39 chris the limit code should make it a lot more useful (the fix)
18:39 chris and that create one is a hard one
18:39 chris because that could be a subquery
18:39 jwagner Hmmm.  chris_n, I ran a version like this: SELECT borrowernumber, cardnumber, surname, firstname, dateenrolled FROM borrowers WHERE borrowernumber NOT IN (SELECT b.borrowernumber FROM borrowers AS b LEFT JOIN action_logs AS a ON b.borrowernumber = a.object WHERE a.timestamp < '2009-02-02')
18:40 jwagner Then I picked one of the borrower numbers from the results & queried the action_logs for that borrower # -- it's showing lots of transactions more recently than the date I used.
18:41 jwagner timestamp is one of those date plus time fields, but I thought the <> operators would work with just a date input.
18:41 chris yep they do
18:41 chris its implicitly 00:00:00
18:41 chris_n what he said
18:42 jwagner It also occurs to me that if the date check worked, it would still pick up people who had log entries both before & after the date.  Correct?
18:42 chris_n we'd be in trouble if irc was connected directly to our brains ;-)
18:42 chris yes
18:42 chris cos its saying not in
18:42 chris so it drops on the transaction
18:43 chris but not all transactions
18:43 chris so if they have one before and one after, they  will get counted, because of the after one
18:44 chris or maybe not, its saturday morning and i havent had coffee
18:44 chris so ignore me
18:44 jwagner Right, and I think that's the problem -- they only want to find records that have NO log entries after the specified date.  I also think the where clause needs an extra and a.module = 'MEMBERS' -- the borrower number I picked turned out to match a biblio number
18:46 chris yeah that could happen
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19:09 chris_n jwanger: that's right... the a.object may not always be a member
19:09 * chris_n thought of that, but failed to mention it
19:10 chris_n heya gmcharlt
19:10 gmcharlt hi chris_n
19:12 chris hows boston? had some um beans?
19:13 owen Never has being at an ALA meeting been so appealing, and for entirely unproductive reasons :)
19:14 * jwagner almost wishes my foot were well enough to let me travel -- I'm missing all the fun :-)
19:17 gmcharlt I'm attending the RMG president's program now
19:17 gmcharlt chris: I've consumed no beans yet ;)
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19:19 chris whats the other famous thing, clam chowder?
19:19 gmcharlt yep
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19:20 chris_n clam_chowder++
19:20 jwagner chris, I lived in Boston for several years.  It's pronounced CHOW-dah :-)
19:21 jwagner Of course, a lot of things are pronounced differently in Boston...
19:24 owen I thought it was pronounced BWAH-ston
19:25 * jdavidb checked into rental of body armor, at the point when it looked like he was going to Boston...
19:25 chris :)
19:26 chris i remember the traffic being particularly scary
19:26 chris but the city itself was neat
19:26 chris expensive as a tourist, but lots of neat stuff to see
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19:27 gmcharlt kados is not speaking on the panel; replaced by PTFS' John Yokley
19:27 chris ohhh interesting
19:29 jdavidb Rob McGee is an interesting individual.  He consulted with the library consortium I was with several times, and the difficult relationships he has with ILS vendors is apparently the stuff of legends.
19:29 chris sounds like marshall had the right info
19:29 davi joined #koha
19:29 chris heh
19:29 jdavidb I thought Pat Sommers was gonna slug him once during our contract negotiations.
19:31 * owen finishes sorting through his bugfix branches: 9 unfinished jobs, 8 possibly forgotten sent patches
19:35 chris_n chris: so which pazpar2 package should I use?
19:36 chris um, the newest one
19:36 chris_n heh
19:37 chris_n there appear to be several variations on a theme of pazpar2 in there
19:39 chris ahh just the pazpar2 one .. near the bottom
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19:46 * chris_n gets pazpar2 running
19:46 chris_n tnx
20:01 owen does anyone know if there is a pending patch that fixes batch item editing?
20:02 owen I can't even find a bug report now, maybe one doesn't exist.
20:03 chris hmm not sure owen
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20:28 owen Damn I hate bugs that are hard to pin down! Batch item edit is behaving completely randomly.
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20:37 hdl_laptop owen: ?
20:38 owen hdl_laptop: Sometimes when I try a batch item edit nothing changes, other times it changes some fields and not others.
20:39 hdl_laptop mmm... is it really random ?
20:40 owen That's what I'm trying to figure out
20:40 hdl_laptop oh.... I guess I found what is making that bug.
20:40 hdl_laptop it is because of frameworks.
20:41 hdl_laptop try out the one on Univ_Lyon3 branch to see if it works better.
20:41 hdl_laptop I think we fixed that bug on that branch
20:47 hdl_laptop In fact, koha2MARC links should be used only on default framework.
20:47 hdl_laptop And especially items fields linking have to be the same for all the frameworks, if not, you may have such problems.
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21:12 chris_n bbl
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21:12 * chris wonders if anything interesting came out of hte rmg session
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21:14 chris ill take that as no comment
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21:15 owen hdl_laptop: Switching to Univ_Lyon3 is prompting me to update my database. Is that going to cause me problems when I switch back to 3.2_community?
21:16 hdl_laptop could be.
21:17 chris owen, what i would do
21:17 chris mysqldump the db
21:17 chris do the upgrade
21:17 chris when you switch back, reload the dump
21:18 chris then you are back how you weer
21:18 hdl_laptop indeed.
21:18 chris (i tend to do a mysqldump before any db upgrades, so i can roll back if needed)
21:19 hdl_laptop We only add fields. so ***should*** not break anything.
21:19 owen Do I need to pass any particular flag to mysqldump to make sure it includes "drop table if exists" etc.?
21:19 hdl_laptop But you have to be cautious.
21:20 chris i pass --opt
21:20 chris which does add-drop-table and a few other ones
21:20 hdl_laptop --add-drop-table
21:22 chris --opt
21:22 chris This option is shorthand; it is the same as specifying --add-drop-table --add-locks --create-options --disable-keys --extended-insert --lock-tables --quick --set-charset. It should give you a fast dump operation and produce a dump file that can be reloaded into a MySQL server quickly.
21:22 chris thats what i use
21:26 owen hdl_laptop: No luck. I put in one barcode, chose a new collection code. The result was no change.
21:27 hdl_laptop thanks for trying anyway.
21:27 hdl_laptop looks strange though. We sucessfully tested on a 3000 items.
21:28 owen I'm about to quit for the day, but if you think of anything I can do to help test let me know
21:29 hdl_laptop can you be so kind as to send me your database so that I can test ?
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