IRC log for #koha, 2010-01-14

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:00 IrmaCalyx Is their "Digital Library System" available only a SaaS or hosted
00:00 IrmaCalyx ?
00:00 chris dont think so, but it isnt open source
00:01 chris which is fine, the license allows that, its only when its low level (code level) integration that they would need to gpl it
00:01 chris api level integration is fine
00:02 IrmaCalyx Libraries are still locked out of participating in the Koha Community when they contract with such companies...
00:02 IrmaCalyx in the reality of life
00:04 IrmaCalyx with all the demands on librarians time they will focus on their relationship with their vendor and often not engage with the OSS community
00:05 chris yes and no
00:05 chris ptfs to date have behaved well
00:06 chris committing code back, answering questions on the mailing list, in fact the qa manager for 3.4 is looking to be a ptfs europe employee
00:06 chris so its up to the libraries to do the same
00:06 chris they are only out if they choose to be
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00:06 IrmaCalyx libraries gain much when they get involved
00:08 IrmaCalyx PTFS Europe, how large is the company?
00:08 chris yep, but ultimately its up to them to choose wether to be involved or not
00:08 chris pretty big i think, not sure
00:09 chris Colin is who it is, and he has already proven himself a huge asset, with 20+ patches under his belt
00:09 IrmaCalyx Thks Chris. Must work
00:09 IrmaCalyx Colin ++
00:11 IrmaCalyx Pity, I wont be in NZ next week but Bob looks forward to the visit. He has an action packed agenda!
00:11 chris excellent i hope to catch up for a beer for part of it ;)
00:12 IrmaCalyx excellent ;-) ...
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01:59 SelfishMan I fear for the community
02:04 chris really?
02:04 chris way i see, we at least have a chance now
02:07 chris ptfs are active in the community, send patches, do work, talk on irc, talk on mailing lists, thats a big step forward
02:07 chris or does me being release manager worry you that much? :)
02:12 gmcharlt perish the thought! ;)
02:17 thd whatever happens PTFS is approachable and talks
02:19 thd The things whch went wrong with PTFS and the rest of the Koha community in the past happened when communication was not engaged well enough.
02:19 chris *nod*
02:20 chris open communication is the key
02:21 thd John Yokley is on record for openness when the LEK issue came up.
02:21 thd I will be certain that he does not forget that.
02:40 * chris_n2 tries to imagine chris cracking a whip over the Koha code mules :-)
02:40 chris_n2 and trembles with fear
02:43 chris heh
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02:57 chris_n2 nice to see joe drop in for a bit today
02:58 chris yeah that was cool, i hope it becomes a habit
03:20 chris_n2 I ended up ditching debian etch and loading up ubuntu 9.10 on my production box today
03:20 chris etch .. thats pretty old
03:20 chris ok, brb
03:20 chris_n2 yeah, things got too messed up
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03:21 chris_n2 wb brendan
03:21 chris_n2 @wunder 28334
03:21 munin chris_n2: The current temperature in Dunn, North Carolina is -2.9�C (10:17 PM EST on January 13, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 34%. Dew Point: -15.0�C. Windchill: -3.0�C. Pressure: 29.88 in 1011.7 hPa (Steady).
03:21 brendan heya chris_n2
03:21 brendan @wunder 06516
03:21 munin brendan: The current temperature in Third Avenue Park, West Haven, Connecticut is -2.7�C (10:09 PM EST on January 13, 2010). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 59%. Dew Point: -10.0�C. Windchill: -3.0�C. Pressure: 30.21 in 1022.9 hPa (Steady).
03:21 chris_n2 how'd your stew go over?
03:21 brendan excellent - vension stew
03:21 brendan yummy
03:21 * chris_n2 tries to keep from drooling on his keyboard
03:22 chris_n2 yeah, we made some venison and wild goose vegetable stew a few weeks ago
03:22 chris_n2 it was fantastic
03:22 brendan wild goose sounds good
03:23 * brendan heads to read the transcripts/logs from IRC today... missed most of it
03:23 chris_n2 it was a good meeting
03:25 masonj i just got round to running my dev-box with a BIGMEM kernel
03:26 masonj Linux fugu 2.6.30-bpo.1-686-bigmem #1 SMP
03:26 chris_n2 masonj: cool
03:27 masonj im hoping it will allow mysql to be allocated more than 2gigs of mem..
03:27 chris_n2 ahh, nice
03:27 masonj app. theres a 2gig per-process limit on a vanilla 32bit linux kernel
03:27 * chris_n2 would like to run a huge solid state drive
03:27 chris_n2 and kill the mechanical latency
03:28 masonj im curious too about SSD's
03:28 chris_n2 still a bit pricey for me yet, though
03:29 masonj im planning to buy a new dev box, for xmas
03:29 chris_n2 what kind of specs?
03:29 masonj 6 or 8 gig, with a duo cpu (or AMD equiv?)
03:29 chris back
03:30 chris_n2 nice
03:30 masonj so i can start experimenting with 64bit linux
03:30 masonj and mysql-innodb tuning..
03:30 masonj yada yada... :)
03:33 chris_n2 the proxy server I admin runs a 2.53G Core2 Duo
03:33 chris_n2 w/ 8GB
03:33 masonj yow, overkill?
03:33 chris_n2 heh
03:33 chris_n2 a bit
03:33 chris_n2 but no complaints about latency by the users :-)
03:34 masonj thats one grunty squid-box
03:34 masonj dual cpus look to be the way to go , for prod koha3s..
03:35 chris_n2 it never pages memory
03:36 masonj heh, i bet
03:36 chris_n2 I love it... 386 days since the last reboot
03:36 chris_n2 lets see win32 do that
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04:05 chris hometime
04:06 richard ooh
04:06 richard hometime
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04:17 chris_n2 bedtime... g'night
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06:30 CGI896 Buna
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07:20 Ropuch Morning #koha
07:24 chris hi Ropuch
07:25 Ropuch Hello chris
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08:11 paul_p hello #koha
08:11 paul_p will today be a quiet day? ;-)
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08:19 Ropuch Hi paul_p, hdl_laptop
08:19 toins hello all
08:21 Ropuch Interesting, in english 'M�nchhausen' is written without "h" (so it's derived from english film title with incorrect spelling)
08:21 Ropuch AHi toins
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08:23 toins hi Ropuch
08:24 paul_p hi toins
08:24 toins hello paul_p
08:45 chris wow, toins :)
08:45 chris how are things?
08:46 toins hi chris !!
08:46 toins i'm fine
08:46 * chris still remembers riding in toins car between marseille and cassis
08:47 * toins remembers too !
08:48 toins chris : congrats for being RM for koha 3.4 !
08:49 chris thank you
08:50 toins i've just read your proposal
08:50 toins it will be a huge work to rewrite all templates using T::T !
08:53 chris actually i have a script to convert them
08:53 magnus script++
08:53 toins chris : wow good !
08:53 chris that part is not too hard, its converting C4::Output and changing the .pl files that will take a little while
08:55 * toins now goes to a meeting... brb
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09:25 CGI672 hellooooo
09:30 CGI672 e cineva aici???
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10:14 CGI372 00000
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11:00 kf hi #koha
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11:02 zico hi
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11:41 zico hi
11:41 zico last night chris gave me a link of owen where it showed about "upcoming book" feature adding
11:41 zico there. i saw... i need to "populate my current database"
11:42 zico i am doing this manually... but... is there any way to do it in a little bit easy form?
11:42 zico i am inserting each and every author, title, isbn number of each and every book
11:42 zico but... u know.. .it`s too hard for 10,000 + books
11:42 zico is there any other way to do it?
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13:04 chris_n g'morning #koha
13:05 kf good morgning chris_n
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13:13 Ropuch Ho kf, chris_n
13:13 Ropuch s/Ho/Hi
13:14 kf hi Ropuch
13:20 nengard hiya all
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13:25 kf hi nengard
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13:28 schuster zico - couldn't you do it with a mysql report?
13:29 owen zico, why would you want to do 10,000 books?
13:29 owen If you want to show "new and upcoming" I would think that would be just a few
13:32 Nate Good morning chris_n,kf,Ropuch,nengard,schuster, and owen!
13:35 owen Hi Nate
13:35 paul_p good morning Nate, nengard, Ropuch, kf, chris_n, owen schuster & everybody
13:35 owen So how can we top yesterday?
13:35 Nate hiya paul_p
13:36 schuster PTFS coming out telling us exactly what they are planning to do with community!!!  that is the answer on topping yesterday!
13:37 nengard I think we have to wait for the press conference for that
13:37 nengard those of you going to ALA midwinter will have to fill the rest of us in
13:37 owen schuster I think you and nengard are both correct.
13:37 * chris_n agrees with schuster
13:38 chris_n I wonder if we'll see the PTFS folks around until after ALA?
13:38 owen Someday a library sugar-daddy will decide I need to go to ALA meetings and I'll get to see these things in person.
13:38 kf when is ALA midwinter?
13:38 chris_n 19th... iirc
13:38 chris_n or maybe 18th
13:38 nengard chris_n - no it starts tomorrow and ends the 19th
13:38 schuster This weekend!  15-18th?
13:38 owen I noticed jwagner and jdavidb were significantly absent yesterday. News blackout?
13:38 chris_n opps :-(
13:39 schuster that's what I suspect owen...
13:39 chris_n owen: yes, absent for both meetings
13:39 chris_n this one and the last
13:39 Nate suprising
13:39 schuster They also could be in Boston setting up booths for this large conference coming up since it is so close to them.
13:39 chris_n probably trying to avoid awkward situations
13:39 * chris_n does not blame them
13:40 Nate I would think that telling us news via irc is less awkward than at ALA in a press conference?
13:40 nengard Nate at ALA there are fewer people to ask the hard questions
13:40 Nate just my opinion
13:40 chris_n I was thinking that they might not be authorized to speak on behalf of their employer
13:40 nengard mostly people there to absorb info - not try and get more info
13:41 Nate ahh that could be it chris_n
13:41 chris_n I'm sure that some statement will be forthcoming as PTFS is not ignorant of what has transpired of late
13:41 chris_n Yokley will probably have some statement to make
13:42 Nate I'm sure he will, I just hope it answers some of our questions
13:42 * chris_n too
13:42 Nate I have all the confedence in them, however
13:43 chris_n yes, the press release did quote Yokley as speaking of resolving community issues
13:43 Nate so far they have done nothing to suggest they would do otherwise
13:43 Nate Exciting Times!!
13:43 chris_n yup
13:44 chris_n this certainly could be a major point in Koha's history
13:45 * chris_n wonders off to finish rebuilding his production Koha server
13:46 * owen is optimistic, considering no time travelers have come back from the year 3000 to warn us of the great Koha wars
13:52 nengard schuster want to give your lexile rant here? I just read your email and have to admit that I hadn't heard of lexiles until working with koha
13:52 nengard are you saying libraries use lexiles to limit what kids can read?
13:53 nengard I was reading adult level books in 5th grade already
13:58 owen I can see parents using it as a guide to what books might be appropriate for their kids' reading level
13:59 schuster owen and nengard - exactly - you have heard of Accelerated reading?  well many of the same arguments apply.
13:59 collum I'm reading[…]/lexile-overview/
13:59 nengard thanks for the link collum
13:59 collum Is "metametrics" a computer algorithm?
13:59 schuster Lexile is a number assigned a book based on word length and sentence structure.
14:00 schuster metametrics is a company that owns the lexile "formula"  Lexile is a formula they developed to analyze a book and assign it a lexile.
14:00 nengard okay - that's just silliness - I suck at test taking but I rock at reading - I would have been a really low level according to the test
14:00 collum Are the numbers assigned by humans or machine?
14:01 owen I don't like that a company "owns" it. :(
14:01 schuster If you look at their Lexile database they have maybe 125,000 books "Officially" lexiled.  My favorite example is John Grisham who writes books with a range of lexiles.
14:01 nengard bleh
14:01 nengard yeah - i can see why you wouldn't like this
14:02 schuster Some of his books are 300 others are 1800.  When a new book comes out if it isn't officially lexiled they may use a "range" which would be an "average" based on previous books.
14:02 schuster So therefore may not have an accurate rating.
14:02 nengard i forget what library asked me about lexile searching when i was training them ... i'm now assuming it wasn't you schuster
14:03 schuster Texas in the last 2 years has put lexile scores on the state test telling parents what their child's range is.
14:03 nengard hmm
14:03 collum How would you rate something like "Clockwork Orange?" A book with lots of made up vocabulary.
14:03 schuster Books have a specific number, but a person may have a range - 400-475
14:03 collum Kentucky is doing the same.
14:03 schuster bbiam
14:04 schuster
14:04 schuster I just searched clockwork orange and it has a lexile of 1310L
14:05 schuster Probably because of the made up words, but its sentence structure is probably pretty complex as well.
14:05 schuster The theory is that you find books in your "range" and you will become a more successful reader.
14:06 collum It would be nice if they showed the criteria by which a book was rated.
14:06 schuster So many picture books are NOT lexiled because they have so few words - and the process falls apart.  That's when you have the parents after parent/teacher conferences going to the public
14:06 schuster library asking for books with a lexile range and the public libraries have no clue.
14:07 schuster You can lexile a book - take a paragraph from something and run it through their algorithm.
14:07 schuster
14:08 schuster Mind you if you take a paragraph from the first of the book, middle and end you will probably come up with totally different numbers.
14:08 owen nengard: You can lexile your blog and find out if you're using enough big words ;)
14:08 nengard LOL
14:08 nengard I doubt I am
14:09 schuster That is very true...  You will see lexiles on Ebsco and Gale product articles too...
14:09 collum With my spelling I would probably get a high rating. :)
14:09 nengard owen - i'd have to register
14:09 owen :P to them.
14:09 nengard yup
14:10 collum Donuts in the breakroom. bbiab. priorities.
14:13 schuster oooo.... Donuts...
14:16 schuster Ok that's the end of my tirade on lexile - fyi registration is free to lexile.
14:18 schuster On another note...  I see on DC everest catalog it looks as though their locations are in alpha order on the summary screen...
14:18 schuster[…]x=kw&istp=1&lex1=
14:18 schuster My Librarians would LOVE that.
14:19 owen schuster is that a PTFS client?
14:20 schuster self hosted
14:20 owen Are you referring to this screen?[…]iblionumber=17081
14:20 schuster self supported I believe.  Cory Yeager was at KohaCon09 and stayed for the development days after.
14:24 owen schuster: Or are you referring to the summary of copies available on the search results screen?
14:25 schuster Search result screen where all the titles are listed and then in green locations are noted.  On my install they are as they were added to the database.  Theirs looks to be alpha.
14:26 schuster Not the detail but the summary
14:26 owen Seems likely that theirs were added in that order too, just came out to be alpha for them.
14:26 owen But I don't know.
14:26 schuster I'll contact Cory and see what he has to say.
14:27 nengard owen that's my guess too - they entered them in alpha order
14:27 owen As soon as you switch it to be alphabetical by default you'll get a library who says, "But we want our MAIN library to be listed first, then each other in descending order of importance!"
14:28 nengard LOL
14:28 nengard that is so true
14:28 schuster hmmm ok I'd just like them in alpha!
14:28 nengard I would too - but i see what owen is saying
14:29 owen schuster why not file a bug report?
14:29 schuster I could do that thanks.
14:29 schuster I also understand owens comment.
14:30 nengard this is why there are so many sys prefs
14:30 owen We should have a sys pref for how many sys prefs there are.
14:30 nengard and i know why people want fewer prefs - but at the same time the more we have the more people can customize on their own
14:30 collum Another option, if the patron is logged in, would be to have the patron's home branch listed first, and the alphabetical.
14:30 collum I'm back.
14:30 nengard hehe
14:33 schuster There is a pref for if they are logged in to search local holdings
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14:51 owen Hi liz-nekls
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14:59 liz-nekls hey everybody
14:59 liz-nekls is now known as wizzyrea_
15:00 Nate Hi wizzyrea_!
15:01 wizzyrea_ Hi Nate :)
15:17 Nate I just ate Frosted Flakes for the first time in like 20 years!
15:17 wizzyrea_ how were they?
15:17 Nate you set me up for that one
15:17 wizzyrea_ hehe I walked into that
15:18 wizzyrea_ you're welcome :D
15:18 Nate but honestly they were pretty dang good
15:18 nengard Nate are you in a hotel? that's something that hotels with breakfast always seem to have available
15:19 wizzyrea_ if I had to guess Nate is at ALA
15:19 Nate nope just at home raiding the cabinet
15:19 Nate not yet
15:19 nengard I know he's going - just not sure if he was there yet
15:19 nengard got it
15:19 Nate heading up tommorow morning
15:20 Nate Brendan is reading over my shoulder and says hi to everyone
15:20 wizzyrea_ man, I wanted to go to ALA just to go to the party >.>
15:20 nengard i'm going to take a long long steamy shower - hoping the steam will relieve my sinus pressure :(
15:20 Nate he's complaining about the cold
15:20 nengard Hi Brendan!
15:20 Nate boo hoo
15:20 nengard Oh poor baby
15:20 nengard you have no sympathy from me
15:20 owen :D
15:20 wizzyrea_ poor nengard. Heh, I had a dream about you last night... I dreamt you were at NEKLS for a book signing.
15:20 nengard I'm in my house and my toes feel like they're going to fall off
15:21 nengard ooo - wizzyrea you should invite me to do that :) hehe
15:21 nengard not sure what else would get me to kansas again now that most of you are on Koha already
15:21 nengard okay - I'll be back soon - hopefully without a headache
15:21 wizzyrea_ good luck
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15:26 hdl_laptop @seen kyle
15:26 munin hdl_laptop: kyle was last seen in #koha 1 week, 1 day, 20 hours, 20 minutes, and 34 seconds ago: <kyle> Kyle Hall, Crawford County Federated Library System, Meadville, PA
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15:27 hdl_laptop hi nengard
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15:41 brendan morning #koha
15:41 brendan @wunder 06516
15:41 munin brendan: The current temperature in Third Avenue Park, West Haven, Connecticut is 2.1�C (10:39 AM EST on January 14, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 51%. Dew Point: -7.0�C. Windchill: 2.0�C. Pressure: 30.31 in 1026.3 hPa (Rising).
15:45 kf morning brendan
15:45 kf @wunder Konstanz
15:45 munin kf: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Germany is 2.2�C (4:40 PM CET on January 14, 2010). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 89%. Dew Point: 1.0�C. Windchill: 2.0�C. Pressure: 29.74 in 1007.0 hPa (Steady).
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15:49 hdl_laptop hi brendan
15:49 hdl_laptop hi kf
15:50 kf hi hdl_laptop
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15:54 schuster OK need some information here...  When a book is loaned and checked out to another location it is driving my librarians nuts that on the display screen it is showing current location rather than home location so they never know if they own that book or not.
15:55 schuster Does that bother anyone else?
15:55 nengard where are they looking? cause the item record summary shows both locations ...
15:56 schuster in pac or staff when you search for a title?
15:56 moodaepo @wunder 56001
15:56 munin moodaepo: The current temperature in South on Monks, Mankato, Minnesota is -4.2�C (9:53 AM CST on January 14, 2010). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 93%. Dew Point: -5.0�C. Windchill: -10.0�C. Pressure: 30.01 in 1016.1 hPa (Rising).
15:56 schuster I don't see it unless you click on the barcode and look at home location.
15:56 nengard got it
15:57 nengard i'm not in a library so i have no clue if it bothers librarians ;) hehe was just wondering where you were looking
15:57 schuster I'm thinking that "Location" should really be linked to the home library not current.
15:57 owen schuster: We're the opposite. We usually want to know where it is, not where it belongs. But that's because we can tell where it belongs from the barcode. :|
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15:58 nengard well since it's the staff client we could put in an enhancement request to show both on the summary below the bib record details
15:58 schuster But if you are doing collection development and search for a title (this is where it is problematic) you order another one because yours is on loan to another location.
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15:58 nengard I wouldn't recommend doing it in the pac
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16:05 owen hdl_laptop: I've filed a bug I hope you can investigate: Bug 4045
16:05 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4045 critical, P5, ---,, NEW, No check for maximum number of allowed holds.
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16:23 schuster owen - question about the table sorter.  I'm playing a bit - in the opac it is part of the opac-detail.tmpl - in staff the table I want to sort is part of so can I still use this?
16:25 owen yes, you could add the table sorter to the staff side if you wanted
16:25 schuster I would stick it into the  that still will work?
16:25 owen detail.tmpl. You'd have to make sure the tablesorter js referenced the right element ID from detail.tmpl
16:26 owen My understanding was that because some libraries have huge numbers of holdings having the tablesorter on the staff side would slow things down too much.
16:26 owen That might apply to you
16:27 schuster doesn't hurt to give it a try though and see what kind of screams I hear... ;)
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16:38 * chris_n google chats with his 3 year old :-)
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16:42 chris_n and considers trying google translate on the messages
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16:45 schuster so owen we could do the same to request.tmpl?
16:45 schuster Basically anyplace that has a table?
16:45 owen Yes
16:45 schuster hmmm  the possibilities.
17:01 nengard okay - disclaimer before I ask this - I do not want to use powerpoint - i have to --- now does anyone know a good place to get tempaltes for powerpoint for Mac?
17:03 toins nengard:
17:03 nengard Thank you!!!!
17:04 nengard Oh - yeah I found that one already it only had 4
17:13 rhcl rhcl has a goose too
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17:24 * chris_n thinks appamor == headache
17:25 paul_p chris_n++
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17:54 cait hi #koha
17:54 brendan hiya cait
17:54 chris morning
18:00 Nate hi cait and chris
18:00 chris hey nate, brendan still complaining about the cold?
18:00 Nate always!
18:01 brendan Yup got a hat and gloves on - so please excuse any typos (from fat fingers)!
18:01 chris_n hi chris, cait
18:01 Nate actually its a balmy 38 F here
18:02 Nate thinking about wearing my shag carpet sandals out today
18:02 nicomo left #koha
18:02 chris thats pretty close to freezing eh?
18:02 Nate close enough
18:02 chris brr
18:03 chris @wunder wellington nz
18:03 munin chris: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 14.0�C (6:00 AM NZDT on January 15, 2010). Conditions: Light Rain Showers. Humidity: 82%. Dew Point: 11.0�C. Pressure: 29.98 in 1015 hPa (Steady).
18:03 chris stupid clouds
18:04 Nate ok so youre pretty warm this time of year
18:05 chris we have actually been unseasonably cold
18:05 chris it seems like the seasons are flattening
18:05 cait @wunder Konstanz
18:05 munin cait: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Germany is 0.7�C (7:00 PM CET on January 14, 2010). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 92%. Dew Point: -0.0�C. Windchill: 1.0�C. Pressure: 29.79 in 1008.7 hPa (Steady).
18:05 chris winter was warmer than usual, summer colder than usual
18:06 chris 2009 was our warmest year on record tho
18:06 chris (cos of those high winter averages)
18:06 chris the weather is mental
18:08 francharb joined #koha
18:09 chris and all this rain is ruining cricket season
18:11 Nate I definately want to see a cricket match when we are up for Koha '10!
18:12 Nate or maybe ill join the beige brigade for a week to kick some kiwi rumps!
18:12 chris :-)
18:12 Nate BTW I weigh 135lbs soaking wet
18:13 chris we might just catch the end of rugby season too
18:13 hdl_laptop hi chris
18:14 chris hiya hdl_laptop
18:16 chris speaking of kohacon... i need to talk to some more potential sponsors and pay the deposit, i think in a week or so after which is on next week
18:16 chris (im speaking about koha there at the education miniconf)
18:17 Nate you know to count us in!
18:17 paul_p chris: deposit ? which deposit ?
18:17 chris oh you are already on the site Nate :
18:18 chris )
18:18 chris
18:18 chris paul_p: for the venue
18:18 francharb left #koha
18:18 Nate awsome!
18:18 paul_p chris: how many $ are you seeking ?
18:19 chris we need around 4k nz all up
18:19 * paul_p remember receiving a mail asking if BibLibre want to sponsor, but did not answer it, and wated to ask for some details...
18:19 chris so any little bit helps
18:19 paul_p that's not too much
18:19 chris yeah i tried to keep it as low as possible
18:19 chris because i know everyone has travel costs too
18:20 chris im sure my work can cover a good amount of that too
18:20 chris i will talk to them, and then send out an email in next couple of weeks
18:20 CGI185 joined #koha
18:21 chris if we get extra, it can go on snacks/coffee etc
18:21 chris
18:21 chris i started making maps hehe
18:25 chris catalyst is a major sponsor of LCA .. which starts on sunday, so its pretty busy with that at the moment, when that finishes, then i will get back to kohacon planning, im hoping to be able to delegate most of it away now
18:25 chris now the venue and dates are confirmed, i hope i can leave the rest of the planning to others :) ... seems like im gonna be busy enough this year :)
18:26 chris here endeth the monologue :)
18:27 paul_p chris: lol
18:28 * paul_p leaves in a few minuts. Have a good day everybody !
18:29 chris cya paul_p
18:29 nengard chris the links off of that page do not work - like the tabs at the top and the links in the menu on th eright
18:29 nengard the right
18:30 chris yeah thats cos its not finished
18:30 chris im gonna delegate that to
18:31 chris the ones that work, are the ones that have been done
18:31 chris like the trains and buses one etc
18:32 chris the rest are placeholders to remind us what needs to be done still :)
18:37 chris the big things are, the programme (no really???) and more info about accomodation/travel
18:37 brendan hey nengard
18:38 nengard hiya brendan -- aka big baby :) hehe wearing gloves - i mean really :) hehe
18:38 jwagner joined #koha
18:38 jwagner Hi, folk!
18:38 jwagner folks, even!
18:38 nengard hiaya jwagner
18:38 brendan hi jane
18:38 nengard hiya even :) hehe
18:39 brendan err..  jwagner
18:39 nengard so - none of us can type today
18:39 jwagner Congratulations to BibLibre and Bywater -- sounds like a great move!
18:39 nengard thanks :)
18:39 nengard and congrats to ptfs
18:39 jwagner Thanks.
18:40 jwagner To head off the bombardment, let me say what I can say at this point.
18:40 jdavidb joined #koha
18:40 nengard hi jdavidb
18:40 jdavidb Hi, nengard! :)
18:41 jwagner We are still in the due diligence phase of the deal, so nothing is final.  That means of course that no decisions on matters of interest will be made yet.
18:41 jwagner Those decisions will be made above our (jdavidb & mine) pay grade.  We cannot speak for the company on those issues.
18:41 brendan howdy jdavidb
18:41 jdavidb howdy, brendan.
18:42 jwagner Our first priority is to maintain and enhance customer support for all the customers, and to continue/complete the development projects currently underway.  That will have to be what jdavidb & I focus on during the transition.
18:44 brendan @wunder 06516
18:44 munin brendan: The current temperature in Third Avenue Park, West Haven, Connecticut is 2.7�C (1:39 PM EST on January 14, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 61%. Dew Point: -4.0�C. Windchill: 3.0�C. Pressure: 30.26 in 1024.6 hPa (Falling).
18:44 chris_n hi jwagner && jdavidb
18:45 chris hiya jwagner and jdavidb
18:46 chris that sounds fair enough
18:46 wizzyrea_ can we squee now?
18:47 jwagner Yes, wizzyrea_, you can squee all you like :-)
18:47 jdavidb please do!
18:47 wizzyrea_ queeeee!
18:47 jwagner It's going to be busy around here, for sure!
18:47 chris i think that a lot of the future of koha, in the US, is up to the libraries in the US
18:48 chris public squeeing, and joy about return to open source ... will help people move in the right directions
18:48 chris thats just my 2cents
18:50 jwagner Incidentally, when I say "jdavidb and I" that includes the rest of our staff who don't normally log into the IRC -- we'll ALL be busy!
18:51 atz jwagner: how closely do you work w/ your European counterparts?
18:52 jwagner PTFS Europe is an independent company, but we have some licensing and consulting arrangements, and that will almost certainly continue.
18:52 chris and colin will be doing QA manager ... unless someone else is mad^H^H^H brave enough to volunteer
18:52 chris so ptfs europe will be busy too
18:53 jwagner Yep.  Colin's helped us out on a number of things, and I think he'd be a great QA manager.
18:56 chris so do it
18:56 chris s/it/i/
18:57 brendan hey atz - hope you're feeling better :)
19:00 atz yeah, back in decent health now
19:00 atz thx
19:00 chris good to hear
19:00 chris ok, bus time, back in 40 mins or so
19:00 chris i wish more than just the airport bus had free wifi
19:01 * chris wanders off
19:01 nengard chris that's more than any bus I know of in the US
19:02 jdavidb Some of the regional bus route-operators up here have wifi on the bus.  Bolt Bus and Peter Pan Lines do.  ($20 to NYC from here.  With wi-fi and power outlets for all.  <3  )
19:08 CGI185 left #koha
19:11 schuster chris - where will the hackfest be?
19:12 * chris_n wonders about the accuracy of this statement: "copyrights for the majority of the documentation and source code for the Koha software" made here:[…]le/CA6714841.html
19:12 wizzyrea_ chris is afk, bus
19:13 schuster I know he will followup when he gets there...
19:18 nengard chris_n yeah that line stuck with me too
19:18 nengard schuster i think he said it was going to be at a local library
19:18 nengard or he was trying to get in at a local library - something like that
19:18 nengard in short - not the same place as the conference
19:19 wizzyrea_ those copyrights are only for 3.0 though, right?
19:19 wizzyrea_ so new stuff = not their copyright
19:20 wizzyrea_ except LEK, of course
19:21 pianohacker joined #koha
19:24 chris_n out of 1802 occurrences of the word 'Copyright' in the codebase, it appears that 94 of them are followed by the word 'LibLime' according to grep
19:25 chris_n 242 are followed by the word 'Katipo'
19:26 chris_n 42 by 'BibLibre'
19:27 chris_n 26 by 'Team' ... presumably 'Koha Dev Team'
19:27 gmcharlt joined #koha
19:27 nengard wizzyrea yes, everything I'm writing now is join copyright Me, BibLibre and ByWater
19:28 nengard chris_n do you know how a file gets a copyright note added to it?  If I come in and edit a file copyright Katipo doesn't that mean I too belong in that copyright note?
19:28 chris_n of course that includes all of the Yahoo stuff, etc as well
19:29 atz nengard: technically, sorta.  it's just lame though to try to assert authorship if you are just bugfixing or extending.
19:29 nengard makes sense
19:30 chris_n nengard: what I have done is this: if I add to the file significantly, I add my "name" to the list of copyright holders
19:30 nengard however i did write most of the help files in Koha - but didn't copyright them ... should I have?
19:30 atz chris_n: LL acquired Katipo's interests in Koha back when i was working there.
19:30 schuster Just thinking about hotel accomodations for those lucky enough to make it to NZ...
19:30 chris_n if I totally re-write or originate, I copyright it
19:30 chris_n if I bugfix, I do nothing
19:30 nengard schuster chris is working on getting discounts and such
19:31 chris_n atz: so 316 of those 1802 belonged to LL
19:31 schuster ah...  Just looking at the website and the hotels near the convention center got me wondering about the hack fest later.  The Holiday Inn didn't charge us for the room because of the fill rate we had there.
19:31 chris_n along with PTFS's 4, that makes 320 occurrences belonging to PTFS when the deal closes
19:31 atz nengard: probably would be fine to.  you can make one statement to cover all the help files though.
19:31 chris_n hardly a majority
19:31 nengard schuster - but a library has free wi fi and - well - it's a library :) better than a hotel :) hehe
19:32 nengard atz - not really asking if I can - more if I should have thought of that ... I don't need to copyright them, just wondering what the rules are
19:32 richard joined #koha
19:32 * chris_n remembers an article about a library hotel somewhere in the news some time ago
19:32 nengard chris_n yes - it's in NYC
19:32 nengard each room has a genre
19:33 atz chris_n: i examined this claim before.  it's basically junk.  it made *some* sense regarding MARC21-only since 3.0 features, including documentation, including all the (large) amount of code in LEK.
19:33 nengard looks awesome - but NYC - so expensive I assume
19:33 chris_n it seems that the holders of the DDC were suing it
19:33 nengard DDC?
19:33 chris_n dewey
19:33 nengard oh - duh :)
19:33 jdavidb yep.  They were decorating the rooms according to the Dewey classification of the room number.
19:33 * chris_n hands nengard some coffee
19:33 nengard yes, each room has a Dewey number - but that's just stupid
19:33 jdavidb (sompin like that)
19:33 nengard to sue them
19:34 * chris_n agrees
19:34 nengard can I get sued if I use Dewey at home?
19:34 chris_n I think the idea is neat
19:34 atz but it was fair to say, at some point in the past, that LL was originating the majority of commits, and majority of quality code in Koha.  but that's not the case (for public Koha) anymore.
19:34 jdavidb nengard:  probably so, since OCLC now owns Dewey.  They're fussy.
19:34 nengard LOL
19:34 nengard well - i would be LC anyway - I have never used Dewey
19:34 nengard not even as a kid
19:35 chris_n atz: LL's past contributions certainly cannot be ignored nor should they be disregarded, I agree
19:36 * chris_n wonders how they can "owen" Dewey when his work is over 100 years old iirc
19:36 chris_n own, even
19:36 * chris_n apologizes to owen
19:36 nengard isn't it 75 years after the death?
19:37 jdavidb to me, owning Dewey is like owning a cat.  If you have it around you, it owns *you.*.
19:37 nengard plus if changes have been made by them they can own them ...
19:37 chris_n I think it boils down to 100 years from the date of first copyright if a renewal is applied for
19:37 chris_n changes, I understand
19:37 schuster I just posted to the lists the agenda for KUDOS on Saturday - if you can't attend the KUDOS board would still like to get your comments and feedback on the proposed dues and memebership structure.
19:39 chris_n jdavidb: lol :-)
19:45 chris schuster: no not a library, my work place
19:45 chris we have seminar and training rooms, and good internet, and espresso machines and such
19:46 chris and i can swing it for free
19:46 schuster OK - that was just a concern in how people would get from their hotel to your workplace and how much that might cost etc...
19:46 chris plus its 5-10 mins walk from the convention centre
19:46 schuster Ah then that makes it easy...
19:46 schuster cool
19:46 chris so any hotel you get close to the convention, works for it too
19:47 chris plus wellington is small, and has good public transport, no where is far away (less you live out in the burbs like me)
19:47 chris and even that is a 15 min taxi ride, or 40 min bus :)
19:49 chris yeah that copyright thing i chalked up us marketing, and we all know marketing only needs to be within 12 blocks of actual truth :-)
19:50 nengard left #koha
19:51 schuster In the US Technically working for a school district anything I create while at work is owned by the district.  I can't put my name on it.
19:52 schuster Now if I do it from home I can put my name on it, but need to show proof it was done from home.
19:52 chris its the same most places, apart from the proof bit
19:52 moodaepo What about the documentation on the site?
19:52 chris_n schuster: similar thing here
19:52 chris moodaepo: there is a new documentation repo
19:53 chris which will hopefully go up on the site, soon
19:53 chris its all in docbook xml
19:53 moodaepo chris: Ok..just checking : )
19:54 chris i send patches from chris@bigballofwax when its my homework, and from @catalyst or @liblime or @katipo whatever the case may be, when its work work
19:54 schuster wizzyrea still here?
19:56 chris ohh i bet that's gonna start arguments, im not touching the kudos email :-)
19:57 brendan +1
19:57 nengard joined #koha
20:06 wizzyrea_ schuster: sup?
20:07 jdavidb left #koha
20:10 chris song of the day time
20:10 chris[…]I+M+Dead/19630248
20:14 nengard left #koha
20:28 chris we need a library in russia
20:29 chris i know there is one
20:29 chris i just want it on the map
20:29 chris
20:29 chris im sure there is at least one in the ukraine too
20:44 rhcl does this look like a koha opac?
20:44 rhcl based on this:[…]0-td14980243.html
20:45 rhcl .asp - I'm thinking not koha
20:46 ccurry joined #koha
20:49 gmcharlt rhcl: almost certainly not Koha; certainly the OPAC isn't
20:50 hdl_laptop hi gmcharlt
20:50 hdl_laptop Happy New year
20:51 gmcharlt hi hdl_laptop - happy new year to you as well
20:51 gmcharlt chris: which KUDOS email?  the agenda?
20:53 ccurry This is a basic question and I'm going to feel like an idiot when I get an answer, but I've spent way too long trying to figure it out.  I'm trying to allow access to my koha mysql server from my workstation, running Windows & MySQL Administrator.  I'm used to using MySQL on windows and I like the gui admin for MySQL.  It seems silly to learn all of the cl commands now.  I guess I could...
20:53 ccurry ...install a desktop environment on Debian and install MySQL administrator there, but that seems like overkill.  Anyway, I can grant access to external hosts by replacing the "bind-address =" in my my.cnf, line 47, with the ip address of the server.  When I do this, however, zebra can no longer access the db to index new items.  Can anyone explain how I can get around this problem...
20:53 ccurry ...without having to setup an SSH tunnel (or is that what I should do?)
20:56 jwagner left #koha
21:04 ccurry nevermind...just researched ssh tunneling, and it's a lot easier than I thought.
21:09 gmcharlt left #koha
21:10 chris @later tell gmcharlt it was the voting thing
21:10 munin chris: The operation succeeded.
21:11 schuster wizzyrea - do you all have a document you use as you add a new location?  I just don't want to miss any steps.
21:11 chris ccurry: you can change the koha-conf.xml too
21:12 chris so that it connects to the ip you put in, instead of
21:12 ccurry That should have been an obvious place for me to look too.  Thanks.
21:12 chris (you can have your mysql server on a totally different machine to your webserver and zebrasrv if you want and koha still works)
21:12 schuster chris - the reason behind vendors not voting - was the possibility in the future as a service - development projects that might be contracted so there wouldn't be any concern with ethical practices.
21:12 chris assuming the koha-conf is set up
21:13 chris how do you cater for non vendor developers?
21:13 ccurry Great. I'd prefer that to using a tunnel.  Cheers!
21:13 chris ie chris_n for example
21:13 chris or me when im working on my weekends?
21:13 schuster chris - since you brought this up - mysql, zebra and apache = what guestimate would you have for load?
21:13 chris that was the issue that i could see problems with
21:14 chris schuster: for koha, apache works the least hard of those 3
21:14 chris mysql the hardest
21:14 chris whatever partition zebra is on, needs to have fast disk
21:14 schuster Generally our thinking was if you are paid by a library to work with Koha - then you could influence the vote through your institution.
21:14 chris what if you arent paid
21:14 chris no one is paying chris_n for his windows work
21:14 * chris is playing devils advocate
21:14 schuster Then you could be considered a developer and be in at $10 but no vote.
21:15 chris but i think its a valid issuer
21:15 * chris_n is paying dearly for it, though ;-)
21:15 chris so the d in kudos is for show only/
21:15 chris ?
21:15 schuster Yes that is why we put that together to discuss...
21:15 chris my fear is forcing a user/developer split
21:16 chris ie going proprietary model
21:16 schuster In the bylaws KUDOS doesn't acutally spell anything out...  You and I know what it originally stood for, we want to engage developers, and get input from them, but our concern was the ethical practices when time comes to use a vendor for something like development.
21:16 chris_n imho, there should be a voting membership level for free-lance developers
21:16 wizzyrea_ chris_n++
21:16 ccurry left #koha
21:17 schuster make a comment to the posted agenda so we can all take it into consideration.
21:17 chris it feels to me like 1990 users groups
21:17 chris im unlikely to have much direct contact with kudos in that respect
21:17 schuster We're forging new waters here folks so anything you suggest we are open to...
21:18 * chris is just thinking out loud
21:18 schuster As long as you don't shoot the messenger!
21:18 chris_n seems that you could have some sort of "weighted" voting system if you wanted to "balance" interestes
21:18 chris i dont think i ever do that
21:18 chris well at least i hope i dont
21:19 chris i always try to play the ball not the man
21:19 chris but feel free to put me in check if im out of line
21:19 chris i guess another consideration for kudos is
21:20 schuster what would you suggest chris_n?
21:20 chris what relationship does it plan to have with HLT in the short term (as hlt was elected to hold community property) and the foundation in the longer term
21:20 rhcl The proposed fee schedule seems quite modest. I see I'm paying $106 USD for ALA + LITA
21:20 schuster As you see we are already weighting individual library memberships...
21:20 chris rhcl: price was certainly not the issue i was speaking of
21:21 chris im just unsure bigger should equal more votes
21:21 rhcl No, my comment was intended to be stacatto
21:21 schuster We are more of a users group and not overly interested in holding things.  Our primary interest is education and sharing.
21:21 chris seems a bit dangerous
21:21 chris_n initially I was thinking that a library's vote could be weighted based on bibs and a vendor just gets 1:1
21:21 chris schuster: wasnt so much in holding things, more do you plan to work with them etc (im sure the answer is yes)
21:22 schuster Bigger - provides some equality...  Why should Sioux Falls public library get one vote and Plano ISD with 67 locations get 1 vote..  I was in a group like that before and it was always very unfair I could never get anything to happen.
21:22 chris_n but you could have a big library attempting unethical things too
21:22 schuster Yes you could, but there would be more than ONE big library ...
21:23 schuster keeping the cost low also provided for almost ANY library to be a member - that was a key focus.
21:23 chris *nod* i like that
21:23 chris i think that most of the issues i have
21:23 * chris_n likes the dues schedule too
21:23 chris could be resolved by total transparency
21:23 schuster Yes KUDOS would want to be the voice of its membership and open and productive dialog is important.
21:24 chris ie if everyone can see what is being discussed and going on, no ambushes
21:24 chris and less chance to annoy developers, id hate to see an us and them develop, with one notable exception koha has a great history of collaboration
21:24 schuster Yes we plan to post minutes of each meeting the board holds.  Right now we are in that formative stage - we have a facebook account and that is about all besides the site Kyle Hall as up.
21:25 wizzyrea_ I think you're likely going to see more actual librarian developers in a few years
21:25 schuster We don't want the us/them either, but were thinking down the road if we had to contract for things how would that work...  ie training opportunities, development work etc... and we needed a vendor that we had to pay.
21:26 schuster Yes wizzyrea, but they I suspect will be covered as a library
21:26 chris_n so what about ethics and a library staffed with developers?
21:26 chris oh
21:26 chris code of ethics
21:26 * chris_n tries to imagine a library/vendor
21:26 chris_n hybrid
21:26 chris id love something like kudos to develop one
21:26 chris that vendors can sign
21:26 wizzyrea_ well like owen kinda
21:27 wizzyrea_ he does dev work outside of his library
21:27 wizzyrea_ but he's an employee of a library as ewll
21:27 wizzyrea_ well*
21:27 chris yeah, thats the thing i was trying to say, but didnt very well
21:27 chris_n schuster: one thing to consider is publishing a list of benefits to non-voting, dues paying members
21:28 collum How about me. Developer - but our library is not on koha.
21:28 schuster Suggestions....
21:28 chris_n where should they be directed?
21:29 wizzyrea_ collum you do this just for fun? That's so cool
21:29 schuster At the meeting Saturday one of the items that will be discussed are what types of services KUDOS should try to offer.  email list probably but what else...  I'm thinking we could coordinate some development exchange concepts - and those libraries that want to pay can put money into KUDOS services and have a vote on what is developed.
21:29 schuster respond to the email ...
21:29 wizzyrea_ oh yea, I imagine that our development coordinating website isn't going to come about Schuster
21:29 wizzyrea_ through LL
21:29 wizzyrea_ anyway
21:29 chris speaking as newly elected RM for 3.4
21:30 schuster ugh oh I hear a soap box coming on.
21:30 chris you probably need to figure out some process of how you plan to interact with the RM's
21:30 wizzyrea_ hee
21:30 chris it probably needs to involve chocolate and coffee
21:30 wizzyrea_ lol chris
21:30 chris altho peanut butter for my wife is also acceptable
21:31 wizzyrea_ Jif or Peter Pan, I can never remember
21:31 wizzyrea_ and crunchy or smooth...
21:32 chris think of the most unhealthy
21:32 chris so Jif
21:32 chris :)
21:32 wizzyrea_ haha
21:32 brendan So vendors can vote on everything except the development aspirations of KUDOS
21:32 chris[…]ou-peanut-butter/
21:32 brendan saying that vendor = developer
21:33 chris that would work
21:34 wizzyrea_ ooh extra crunchy jif, good to kno
21:34 chris its crazy expensive to send, so i dont actually recommend doing it
21:35 brendan yeah but we can load up a suitcase - when we fly to NZ
21:35 rhcl Can't you buy peanut butter in NZ?
21:35 wizzyrea_ brendan++
21:35 collum left #koha
21:35 wizzyrea_ its all the sugar free natural stuff, right?
21:35 rhcl That's what I like - Smuckers Natural no sugar added
21:36 wizzyrea_ me too
21:36 schuster At this point we really don't know what we would be voting on so we were just concerned in dealing with service contracts.  As developers/vendors make comments to the email.
21:36 schuster I'm allergic to peanuts.
21:36 wizzyrea_ boo
21:36 wizzyrea_ peanut-allergy--
21:36 wizzyrea_ like deathly allergic?
21:37 chris rhcl: we can, but we have like health rules, our food isnt supposed to actually cause heart attacks
21:37 brendan I don't see much incentive for a developer/"vendor" to join - if he's not consider a full member.
21:37 chris so there is about 8 cups less sugar in our peanut butter
21:37 pianohacker well that just takes all the _fun_ out of it
21:37 brendan heya pianohacker
21:37 rhcl Well, we have no such silliness here. :)
21:37 pianohacker hi brendan
21:37 brendan got it right too :D
21:37 pianohacker no pain today
21:37 chris heya pianohacker, hows the school applications going?
21:37 brendan good question chris
21:37 pianohacker all sent off, just have to wait until april
21:38 brendan bummer
21:38 chris fingers and toes crossed for ya
21:38 pianohacker thanks :)
21:38 brendan maybe one will like you so much - that they will let you know earlier
21:38 wizzyrea_ ph! happy new year!
21:38 wizzyrea_ my son just identified a picture of pat robertson as grandma
21:38 * brendan happen to me with my alma matter
21:38 pianohacker oh, wow, that'd be nice
21:39 pianohacker hi wizzyrea_with_awesome_son
21:39 wizzyrea_ which made me laugh a lot
21:39 * chris refrains from commenting
21:39 chris that guy makes me homicidal
21:39 wizzyrea_ oh me too
21:42 chris *sad*
21:43 chris[…]dren-die-in-Haiti
21:44 chris days like this, working on is depressing as hell
21:46 wizzyrea_ :(
21:48 schuster itchy scratchy allergic.
21:59 chris_n bbl
22:11 schuster left #koha
22:13 chris ohh good catch pianohacker re export
22:25 chris_n2 yup
22:25 * chris_n2 stopped reading after the missing parameter :-O
22:27 gmcharlt joined #koha
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23:21 CGI500 HOla
23:22 CGI500 I have a question about where do I login as an administrator so that I can start working with koha
23:24 brendan CGI500 - did you just complete an install of koha?
23:24 CGI500 yes
23:25 brendan ok - it should be the username and password that you set during the install
23:25 CGI500 it is running under a liveCD
23:25 CGI500 it does not ha ve a graphic mode
23:25 CGI500 I got it from koha-UNLP from argentina
23:26 brendan hmmm...  I don't know that one.  maybe someone else will have an idea
23:26 CGI500 what is the website where I type in my username and password
23:26 russ CGI500 have you got the url for the public interface?
23:26 CGI500 for the opac? yes
23:26 russ and what is that
23:26 russ ?
23:26 russ (on your install)
23:27 CGI500[…]
23:29 brendan ah try
23:30 CGI500 this is what i get Your browser sent a request that this server could not understand. Reason: You're speaking plain HTTP to an SSL-enabled server port. Instead use the HTTPS scheme to access this URL, please.
23:30 CGI500 I had already try that before
23:30 brendan whoops typo here --
23:30 chris i think you will have to ask the koha-UNLP people
23:30 brendan chris++
23:31 chris its a non standard set up, so we are just guessing
23:32 CGI500 in our URL for our OPAC the https is cross over with red line?
23:32 chris probably an invalid certificate, like i say, its not a standard koha set up so we dont know what they have done im afraid
23:33 CGI500 ok thanks for your help
23:33 chris normally port 80 for opac port 8080 for intranet (the https means it will be port 443 for opac)
23:33 russ CGI500 is there a readme on the live CD
23:33 russ ?
23:34 russ if not it sounds like something the UNLP people should add :-)
23:47 Nate left #koha

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