IRC log for #koha, 2010-01-11

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
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04:02 * chris_n2 's Koha on Win32 work stops being fun
04:02 chris_n2 so I'm off to sleep
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04:55 schuster anybody hanging out and awake?
04:57 schuster chris_n gave me a couple of clues for my libgdm-dev issue with XML-LibXSLT but I'm not able to apt-get libgdm-dev it tell sme invalid operation libgdm-dev or even lgdbm.
04:58 schuster When I run the Makefile.PL int he XML-LibXSLT-1.70... directory it tells me it can't find -lgdbm and errors out.  suggestions?
04:59 schuster When I run the make to install koha it tells me I don't have prerequisite XML::LibXSLT 1.59 so can't figure out how to get this one going.
04:59 schuster thanks talk to ya all tomorrow!
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06:31 Amit heya nicomo
06:33 Amit @wunder New Delhi India
06:33 munin Amit: The current temperature in New Delhi, India is 9.0�C (11:30 AM IST on January 11, 2010). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 82%. Dew Point: 6.0�C. Windchill: 8.0�C. Pressure: 30.12 in 1020 hPa (Falling).
06:40 nicomo hi Amit
06:42 chris @later tell schuster apt-get install libgdm-dev
06:42 munin chris: The operation succeeded.
06:42 chris hi nicomo
06:42 nicomo hi chris
06:44 * chris is working on his presentation for the education mini-conf as part of lca2010
07:23 Ropuch Morning #koha
07:24 chris hi Ropuch
07:25 Ropuch Hi chris
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08:42 chris paul_p:[…]oha-benchmarking/
08:47 imp chris: can i download the benchmarkscript somewhere?
08:48 chris its in the git repo
08:48 chris in misc/load_testing
08:52 paul_p chris: you write "seems fine under mod_perl", but i'm sure there is a major problem is you have multiple Koha on your server ! (unless you use a specific apache configuration you'll told me ;-) )
08:52 chris no, you just have to be careful with environment variables
08:53 imp chris: thanks
08:53 chris imp: you will have to tweak it some (change the user:password etc)
08:53 imp yeah, cookiejar
08:55 chris paul_p: or they will all end up using the same koha_conf
08:55 chris the main worry is that i bet it leaks ram, because there are some circular dependencies
08:55 imp meeeh, somebody bricked the forwarding for my koha...
09:01 chris paul_p: the way i get round it is is a different for each virtualhost
09:01 paul_p ok, so each library has his own "mod_perl" (or something like that)
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09:02 chris same apache2 same mod_perl, different variables (ie using different koha_conf)
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09:04 chris it still needs a lot of testing and there will need to be work done fixing circular dependencies before we can use it in production
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09:12 Peach hi all
09:12 chris hi Peach
09:13 Peach :) I'm new here. Tried several times to get in but I used the web-based one and couldn't see any messages I typed...
09:13 Peach so happy I can now see them!!
09:14 Peach Um... I have a question about upgrading koha.
09:15 chris fire away
09:15 Peach I just installed koha-dev last week. I wonder what approach I should take when the new version of koha comes out.
09:15 chris koha-dev ?
09:16 Peach i mean the dev install, sorry
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09:16 chris from which branch?
09:16 Peach i didn't use git
09:16 Peach i downloaded the tarball from koha website
09:16 chris ahh well then you dont have a real dev install :)
09:16 Peach oh - -"
09:17 Peach well i never used git and actually quite new to ubuntu
09:17 chris dev install is meant for installing from git
09:17 Peach i see
09:17 chris (where you dont need to upgrade)
09:19 Peach ah... i see but i don't know if the modifications i made are okay to be up there
09:19 Peach oh... ok ok i just update not commit
09:19 Peach hmm... so i should learn how to use git then
09:19 chris you commit too :)
09:19 chris git is a distributed version system
09:20 chris so everyone has a repo
09:20 Peach - -" the change might not be clean...
09:20 chris the change is local
09:20 chris committing just keeps it in your repo
09:20 chris its not like cvs or svn
09:20 chris you have to send a patch, if you want it to go in the main repo (for others to use)
09:20 Peach oh i get the picture now. thanks a lot :)
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09:21 kf hi #koha
09:21 chris hiya kf
09:21 Peach hi kdf
09:21 Peach kf
09:22 kf hi chris and Peach
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09:51 Amit heya kf
09:53 kf hi Amit
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12:46 greenmang0 @wunder mumbai
12:46 munin greenmang0: The current temperature in Mumbai, India is 29.0�C (5:40 PM IST on January 11, 2010). Conditions: Smoke. Humidity: 55%. Dew Point: 19.0�C. Pressure: 29.83 in 1010 hPa (Steady).
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13:00 Nate Hello Everyone
13:01 jwagner Mornin'
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13:15 chris_n g'morning
13:15 chris_n @wunder 28334
13:15 munin chris_n: The current temperature in Dunn, North Carolina is -6.1�C (8:09 AM EST on January 11, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 67%. Dew Point: -11.0�C. Windchill: -6.0�C. Pressure: 29.91 in 1012.8 hPa (Steady).
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13:35 jdavidb @wunder 20852
13:35 munin jdavidb: The current temperature in Flower Valley, Rockville, Maryland is -6.4�C (8:33 AM EST on January 11, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 63%. Dew Point: -12.0�C. Windchill: -6.0�C. Pressure: 29.97 in 1014.8 hPa (Falling).
13:52 chris_n heya owen, jdavidb
13:52 jdavidb howdy.
14:10 owen Hi
14:13 * jdavidb suggests that we just give Monday-Thursday a miss this week, and skip right to Friday.
14:13 jwagner I have a better idea.  Let's skip to Saturday.
14:13 * magnus agrees
14:14 owen But I have three kids. Where will I sleep if not at work?
14:14 jwagner The public library?  (*grin*)
14:14 schuster joined #koha
14:15 paul_p owen: you have 3 kids ? that's one more than what I thought. there is a new baby with the new year ?
14:15 owen Hang on...
14:16 * owen counts on his fingers
14:16 owen Yes, 3!
14:16 owen Petra was born in May 2009
14:16 paul_p hello jdavidb & chris_n & Nate & jwagner & schuster, and anyone else on #koha
14:16 jwagner Good morning paul_p
14:17 chris_n howdy paul_p
14:17 paul_p owen: I think I knew this one. I should have missed the 2nd one. Or maybe i become too old & have memory problems (just reached 42 this week end ;-) )
14:17 schuster Hey all.  owen was very nervous to attend Kohacon2009 due to baby on the way!
14:18 owen That's right, I almost forgot
14:18 owen The middle one, Thatcher, was born 3 years ago next week
14:18 jdavidb paul, you're not old enough to have memory problems.  If you are, I should be worried; I'll be 42 in June.
14:19 paul_p jdavidb: :D
14:19 schuster memory leaks...  Can I get more?
14:19 schuster I'll be 41 in May...
14:19 * chris_n will also be 41 in May
14:19 chris_n what day schuster?
14:20 jwagner I have you all beat, but I'm not saying by how much :-)
14:20 paul_p today /me investigates some resumes for hiring a new developer... a very very very good one, but very very very expensive too... will probably investigate a very good one, for a good -including for us- salary ;-)
14:21 schuster cinco de mayo!  May 5th
14:21 chris_n you got me beat... I'm on the 17th
14:21 schuster Drat I hate being the oldest!  Even though I'm the youngest of 8 in my family!
14:21 chris_n and the guy in the next office to me is on the 19th... he'll be 41 this year as well
14:22 schuster Good Catholic parents in the cold Minnesota weather!
14:22 schuster Paul_p good luck!!!  Good Developers++++
14:22 owen A belated happy birthday to you paul_p !
14:23 jwagner Yes, happy birthday paul_p!
14:23 paul_p ahhh... enfin... /me though noone would understand I was waiting for a happy birthday :D
14:23 jwagner paul_p, it's still early in the morning here.  Subtle cues are wasted....
14:24 paul_p is was not very happy in fact: my wife bought me gift, and it was stolen while she was looking somewhere else in the mall. So no new watch...
14:24 owen :O
14:24 magnus congrats, paul_p!
14:25 paul_p fortunatly: I missed ALL birthday of my 4 childrens last year, so they promised "we won't be there for your dad", but in fact, they stayed at home, and we eated a good cake ;-)
14:26 schuster What day Paul?  My youngest had a birthday on Jan 6th...  He is now 5.  We had a lego party at our house this weekend 15 5 year olds!  ahhhh....
14:26 paul_p schuster: jan, 9th
14:26 schuster Happy Happy Birthday oh Happy happy day...
14:37 kf happy birthday paul_p
14:49 chris_n ok git gurus...
14:49 chris_n any thoughts on going back and splitting up a commit made, say, 50 commits ago?
14:50 chris_n ie. the commit contains changes to two files, but there should have been a commit made for each file separately
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15:05 chris_n found the answer here:[…]tive-rebase-tips/
15:05 chris_n very cool info
15:14 owen If the ReturnToShelvingCart system preference is on, how and when does the "CART" location go away?
15:16 jwagner owen, see the cron script -- one of the parameters is how long (in hours) items should stay on the cart.  After that, they revert to their "real" locations.
15:16 owen Okay, thanks.
15:17 owen I can see the reaction of the shelving flunkies now: "Meh, no hurry, it'll say 'cart' for another 10 minutes."
15:17 jwagner The script itself should probably be run at least once an hour.
15:19 owen Oooh, this circ error message is new to me:[…]error-message.png
15:22 jwagner owen, I've seen that when there is some "condition" on a patron checkout but the message isn't displaying.  (Like too much $$ owed, other blocks, etc.)
15:22 jwagner Buggy code somewhere about eligibility for checkout.
15:30 owen Bug 4035 is the bug that keeps on bugging. It reappears every time Koha gets a significant upgrade.
15:30 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=4035 major, P5, ---,, NEW, Today's checkouts grouped with previous checkouts
15:43 owen That's the condition that the template isn't displaying an error message for jwagner
15:44 owen The comment in says "  ## remaining overdue documents"
15:44 owen ...except I don't have any overdues
15:44 jwagner owen, current head?
15:52 owen Yes
15:53 owen I see that USERBLOCKEDOVERDUE is also not accounted for in the template
15:55 chris_n @seen gmcharlt
15:55 munin chris_n: gmcharlt was last seen in #koha 6 days, 2 hours, 48 minutes, and 2 seconds ago: <gmcharlt> at LL, I mean
15:55 chris_n gmcharlt: ping
15:55 gmcharlt chris_n: pong
15:55 chris_n heya gmcharlt
15:56 chris_n I'll be submitting a pull req for the new patron card creator today or tomorrow
15:56 gmcharlt chris_n: cool
15:56 * chris_n is busy squashing 90 commits now
16:09 paul_p hi gmcharlt. How are you ?
16:09 gmcharlt paul_p: ok, how are you?
16:09 paul_p fine, thanks (although a little bit old -see below ;-) - )
16:10 paul_p did I miss something, or I didn't see any new push from you since thanksgiving in ?
16:11 gmcharlt paul_p: I'm working another final push of stuff in the next day or two to make up the 3.2 alpha
16:12 paul_p gmcharlt++
16:12 paul_p could you include all our patches (on ?
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16:25 gmcharlt paul_p: yep, I'll go through them
16:26 owen gmcharlt++
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16:35 wizzyrea ok I'm losing my mind... where's the opacfooter preference? I'm looking in the opac and it is just... not... there
16:35 owen opaccredits
16:35 wizzyrea opac preferences, that is
16:35 wizzyrea OMG
16:35 wizzyrea owen, thanks
16:35 chris_n just now loosing your mind?
16:35 wizzyrea HAHAHA
16:35 owen Named so because someone wanted to be able to put their logo in the OPAC footer ;)
16:36 wizzyrea Ahh. Well it's 1. a dumb name and 2. confusing
16:36 wizzyrea :)
16:36 wizzyrea so there
16:36 * owen agrees
16:38 owen A question about something I'm seeing in my test install: item statuses on the search results page are not matching with what is on the detail page
16:38 owen The search results page says things are checked out which aren't.
16:38 wizzyrea are those items on hold?
16:39 wizzyrea on the hold shelf?
16:39 owen No.
16:39 wizzyrea no clue then
16:39 owen My test install has biblio records imported from our live system, but nothing from issues
16:40 wizzyrea weird
16:40 owen Where else would Koha be getting information about what was checked out if not from the issues table?
16:41 owen I nulled-out items.onloan right after importing.
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16:45 owen Hi nengard
16:45 nengard hiya
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16:50 owen Where does the staff client's search results page get its item status information?
16:56 owen my @fields = $marcrecord->field($itemtag);
16:56 owen Does that mean it's pulling from the MARCXML?
16:56 chris_n why do people insist on re-inventing the wheel?
16:56 chris_n http://www.librarytechnology.o[…]
16:57 chris_n what a perfect waste of money imho
16:57 chris_n dump it into an already existing FOSS ILS
16:57 chris_n like Koha :-)
16:57 chris_n or even EG
16:57 * chris_n stops ranting now
17:02 owen I wonder if The Andrew W. Mellon Foundation knows that they rejected existing systems in favor of doing it themselves.
17:04 chris_n I told them so, but I don't think I speak loud enough for an organization that big to hear :-P
17:05 owen If the MARCXML data in biblioitems is out of sync with the data in items, how to get them in line?
17:07 chris_n owen: there is a comment here which mentions koha and eg:
17:07 chris_n owen: I think there is a script for that
17:08 owen "One of the key motivations of this project is to be able to manage print and electronic collections equally, and for the most part, Koha and Evergreen are still based on traditional library systems focusing on print collections."
17:08 chris_n owen: see
17:09 owen Thanks chris_n
17:10 owen In other words, "Koha doesn't quite do what we want, so we have to start over" ?
17:11 chris_n these guys strike me as a bit arrogant in their responses:
17:11 owen This seems an odd question to me, from the overview comments: "Why doesn’t Koha circulation interoperate with Evergreen cataloguing for example?"
17:11 chris_n galen comments here:
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17:12 chris_n I commented here:[…]t-on-ole-project/
17:12 * chris_n sighs and goes back to squashing commits
17:14 jwagner Wierd cataloging problem here.  A user cataloged a title by hand, no import or z39.50.  He filled in 440$v volume & number info, and apparently Koha filled in by itself a 440$9 RLIN link.  The 440$9 was hidden from view; he can't have filled it in himself.  Where did that value come from?  There's no default value or link in the framework.
17:15 jwagner I un-hid the 440$9, but it won't let us delete that subfield.
17:16 wizzyrea O.o You squash commits?
17:16 * wizzyrea pouts
17:17 owen Why is that pout-making?
17:18 nengard anyone having trouble with
17:19 nengard I can get the page to open but when I click 'New' it's going way way way way slow
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17:21 owen It seems to be working for me okay nengard
17:22 nengard k - think maybe I'll restart and see how that goes
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17:23 gmcharlt chris_n: ultimately, we'll all have to wait and see what OLE actually produces
17:23 gmcharlt meanwhile, Koha and Evergreen will continue to grow and push out features
17:24 chris_n gmcharlt: *nod*
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17:27 wizzyrea text-transform: uppercase is my new nemesis
17:27 wizzyrea I hate it, I can't explain why
17:28 wizzyrea dk, that sounds like you're killing them off
17:28 wizzyrea poor little commits
17:28 wizzyrea I thought maybe it was a typo for squashing bugs
17:28 owen It's a git thing
17:28 wizzyrea ah
17:29 owen Commit one thing, commit another thing, then squash the two together so you can submit just one patch for both changes.
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17:38 schuster jwagner - $9 I believe is actually a link to the authority record in Koha not really the RLIN number.  I've seen that in my catalog when I export the entire database.
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17:45 kf schuster: you are right
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17:58 jwagner schuster, thanks, I'll take a look at that.
18:08 paul_p jwagner: schuster is right.
18:15 jwagner OK, any good way to tell it to stop making that link?
18:16 jwagner I don't see a link in the default framework to authorities.
18:20 schuster You don't want it to link to an authority record in Koha? jwagner? or you don't want it to export that?
18:28 jwagner The problem is that it shows the $9 in the OPAC as a clickable link.
18:28 jwagner Brute force approach would be to modify the template/XSLT, I suppose.
18:28 jwagner But it's confusing the users.
18:31 schuster Only if they look at MARC though and how many library patrons do you know who will be doing that...!
18:36 jwagner No, this was showing up in the regular title display page, like this:  Series:  . Vol. 31 No. 28 Link#
18:37 jwagner It was a live link that tried to do a series search on the number when you clicked it.
18:37 schuster my authority searches don't work right so can't help with that...
18:40 nengard has anyone used the FF offline circ plugin?  I can't seem to get it save the item i'm trying to checkout and i'm wondering if my settings are wrong
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18:44 schuster I have not nengard as I don't have 3.2 to test it against.
18:44 schuster yet.
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18:44 nengard schuster - that's a good point - I didn't think about the fact that it might be a bug with 3.2
18:44 nengard or a bug with the plugin against 3.2
18:45 nengard I'll wait to document it then
18:45 schuster nengard do you not have 3.2?
18:45 nengard i do - and i can't get the plugin to work
18:46 schuster Talk to your boss' didn't that come out of BibLibre?
18:46 nengard I forget, but that's my next move to contact the author
18:46 nengard for all we know it's my computer :)
18:46 nengard or the settings I'm putting in
19:02 JeremyLC incidentally, have there been any updates on when 3.2 is due out? (The only thing I found on the official website said it was dues in Nov 2009)
19:03 chris JeremyLC: the release manager is hoping to do a final push of commits in the next few days, and an alpha release
19:04 chris we are a bit behind schedule due to the fact that we lost a chunk of momentum when a company decided to withdraw from the community and it's staff needed to find new work, getting back on track now though
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19:04 JeremyLC Okay.  I've been eagerly awaiting its release.  It has (or should have) a feature we need to be able to use it at all
19:04 chris with this push of patches, we will hit 100 committers :)
19:04 chris what is the feature?
19:04 JeremyLC We need to track our checkouts by the minute, rather than by the date
19:05 JeremyLC we have a 4 hour max checkout time for students, and 1 week for profs.
19:05 JeremyLC Since we're a media lab, our students can get credit for their time spent here and we need to be able to track it
19:07 chris not sure that in is there, ill check for you, I think that was something liblime promised, then decided not to share
19:08 JeremyLC Oh, that may be an issue for us. (it was LibLime, IIRC)
19:08 chris most of those things, others have stepped up and implemented anyway, when it was clear the code was not coming
19:08 chris not sure if that is one of those
19:08 owen I'm pretty sure that feature was a LibLime promise.
19:08 * chris has to catch his bus, but will bbiab
19:10 JeremyLC I'm fairly certain we could do it in-house, but not fast enough to meet a looming deadline.
19:10 owen JeremyLC: "Hourly loans" is listed as one of the features of LibLime's proprietary version of Koha
19:11 JeremyLC I know, I have an EMail from Daniel Sweeney telling me they had it working, and that they were going to release it to the community
19:11 JeremyLC >:(
19:12 wizzyrea yea, they say that a log
19:12 wizzyrea lot*
19:12 JeremyLC They're welcome to do as they please, but it doesn't give me any incentive to do business with them
19:13 wizzyrea yea, I wouldn't get involved with them at this juncture
19:13 owen Maybe if we wait a little bit longer they'll release it.
19:14 JeremyLC It's a bit frustrating because I've been waiting since May (had other projects running, so not just sitting idle)
19:15 JeremyLC It looks to me like their pricing would be too much for us anyway
19:22 wizzyrea heh, you odn't have to talk to us about being frustrated with LL
19:22 JeremyLC I imagine not
19:22 wizzyrea because believe me, we understand
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19:22 JeremyLC Of course, this leaves me in a bind, unless someone else already added hourly loans
19:23 nengard I haven't seen anyone else working on it
19:23 nengard :(
19:24 JeremyLC Well.  I can look again at what it would take, but that may be a bit much for the time I have
19:24 nengard I understand
19:25 wizzyrea Dan doesn't work at LL anymroe
19:25 wizzyrea more*
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19:30 JeremyLC Hmm..
19:30 JeremyLC building git now, I'll grab the latest copy I can get and see what's there
19:35 nengard JeremyLC - you may also want to look at the BibLibre Community Branch
19:35 nengard it has some more than HEAD has
19:35 JeremyLC okay
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19:51 JeremyLC koha-biblibre.git ?
19:54 Ropuch git clone git:// whatever
19:54 Ropuch :)
19:54 JeremyLC yeah, I got it
19:55 JeremyLC are the newer versions any easier to install?
19:55 JeremyLC when I first tried 3.0 it was brutal
19:55 Ropuch Hm
19:57 owen JeremyLC: I managed my first Koha install on Ubuntu fairly well recently
19:57 Ropuch Can't tell, my first install went smooth
19:57 chris back
19:57 JeremyLC I did it on a Debian system, configured for that purpose, and it took a lot of work
19:58 Ropuch JeremyLC: good thing with dev versions is that they're shipped with just english, and install && test are really quick
19:58 * chris_n growls at git
19:58 chris debian lenny is pretty easy now
19:58 chris_n hi chris, Ropuch, JeremyLC
19:58 Ropuch Hi chris_n, chris_n owen ;-)
20:01 chris_n git behaves badly during multiple interactive rebases
20:02 chris_n about every dozen times run in succession, git suddenly decides to load up *all* commits (500+) into the to-do list
20:03 chris what version of git?
20:03 chris_n
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20:04 chris i have
20:04 JeremyLC looks like it still uses only date rather than datetime
20:04 chris_n I'll update and see fif that fixes it
20:04 chris_n if, even
20:04 chris worth a crack
20:05 chris JeremyLC: it wouldn't actually be much work to add it, its just that because LL said they were, no one else was working on it
20:08 JeremyShellhase I am working with Koha 2.29 windows XP - system is refusing to create item records, any ideas?
20:09 chris unfortunately no JeremyShellhase, 2.2.9 is a very old and pretty much unsupported version of koha
20:10 JeremyShellhase is there a later version for running under windows
20:11 chris chris_n is working on it for 3.2.0 .. i think he is getting there
20:11 chris_n inch by inch... or cm by cm whatever your preference
20:11 JeremyLC chris: which version should I work with if I want to be able to submit my changes back in? (I want my organization to have an available upgrade/support path after I'm gone)
20:11 chris to be truthful, it isn't really a priority for a lot of the developers as we all work with FOSS
20:11 chris but chris_n is doing some great work
20:12 chris JeremyLC: master branch, of
20:12 chris if you format patches based off that, that will be the way to go
20:13 chris_n JeremyShellhase: 3.2 on win32 is hopeful for 3.2, but no guarantees as it depends on a one line change in a core module of Perl itself
20:13 chris_n the change will *probably* be made, but things move slowly in that world
20:14 * chris_n goes back to flexing the power of git
20:20 JeremyShellhase Thanks chris_n, it was working with 2.29 for a while but no more
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21:24 chris hi irma
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21:42 chilts calcu
21:43 chilts oopse, ww
21:50 chris_n ok, 90 commits is now 35... 8 hours later :-P
21:50 chris_n bbl
21:52 richard is now known as rich-away
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22:04 schuster back.
22:04 schuster Ok finally got a chance to do the apt-get install libgdm-dev again and I get error package not found.
22:06 chris thats cos its gdbm sorry typo
22:06 chris libgdbm-dev
22:15 schuster giddy with excitement that might be it! whew! thanks Chris and Chris_n
22:15 chris what the hell is 'community source' ?
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22:16 chris[…]normal/12849.html
22:16 schuster well off to the homefront - with community meetings tonight!!
22:16 chris have fun :)
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22:17 owen chris: Not only do they want to reinvent the wheel, they want to reinvent the term
22:17 chris i bet it's some half arsed not really open source thing
22:18 chris[…]munitysource.mspx
22:18 chris using the same term as M$ use to create FUD about FLOSS .. nice work
22:18 chilts bet it runs on Windoze too
22:19 chris well it doesnt exist yet .. but yeah, its probably likely
22:19 owen Maybe that was the thing Koha and Evergreen lacked :)
22:22 chris theres nothing that EG and Koha lack that 2.4 million US couldnt fix
22:22 chris :-)
22:22 chilts that's a lot of money
22:22 chris you're darn tooting it is
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23:13 Nate goodnight All!
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23:35 * chris_n2 could do *a lot* of coding on Koha for just a part of 2.4 million
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23:38 chris heh
23:39 chris i bet most of it disappears
23:39 chris if its anything like when i used to work for a university
23:39 chris a big chunk will disappear in 'overheads'
23:39 chris id estimate less than 1 goes to the actual coders
23:40 brendan overheads--
23:45 chris was something like 40% or something horrid
23:45 chris_n2 sad, but most likely true
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