IRC log for #koha, 2010-01-05

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
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01:18 ricardo Sleep time. Take care everyone!  :)
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01:34 rhcl_home ping wizzyrea
01:34 rhcl_home @seen wizzyrea
01:34 munin rhcl_home: wizzyrea was last seen in #koha 4 hours, 2 minutes, and 58 seconds ago: <wizzyrea> tomorrow :P
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01:46 rhcl_home @seen kyle
01:46 munin rhcl_home: kyle was last seen in #koha 4 weeks, 4 days, 5 hours, 39 minutes, and 38 seconds ago: <kyle> A late thought, instead of having a version number battle, why not move to a date based versioning system like Ubuntu? Koha 9.12?
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03:21 brendan @wunder 93117
03:21 munin brendan: The current temperature in Northwest Goleta, Goleta, California is 10.9�C (7:19 PM PST on January 04, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 61%. Dew Point: 4.0�C. Pressure: 30.03 in 1016.8 hPa (Steady).
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03:32 Amit hi brendan, chris
03:32 brendan Hi Amit
03:34 chris @wunder wellington, nz
03:34 munin chris: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 20.0�C (4:00 PM NZDT on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 43%. Dew Point: 7.0�C. Pressure: 30.04 in 1017 hPa (Falling).
03:35 chris gotcha brendan :)
03:35 brendan blew me outta the water
03:38 liz-nekls @wunder 66057
03:38 munin liz-nekls: Error: No such location could be found.
03:38 liz-nekls @wunder 66047
03:38 munin liz-nekls: The current temperature in Lawrence Live-Courtesy of the Khoury's, Lawrence, Kansas is -14.7�C (9:36 PM CST on January 04, 2010). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 79%. Dew Point: -18.0�C. Windchill: -15.0�C. Pressure: 30.50 in 1032.7 hPa (Falling).
03:39 liz-nekls typing fail
03:39 liz-nekls yesss
03:39 brendan wow that's too cold
03:39 liz-nekls it's effing freezing here
03:39 chris when it gets past -10, its just mental
03:39 liz-nekls seriously, it's freeze your fat off cold
03:39 chris @wunder scott base, antartica
03:39 munin chris: Error: No such location could be found.
03:39 chris @wunder macmurdo, antartica
03:39 munin chris: Error: No such location could be found.
03:39 liz-nekls @wunder scott base, antarctica
03:40 munin liz-nekls: Error: No such location could be found.
03:40 chilts @wunder antarctica
03:40 chris @wunder mcmurdo sound, antartica
03:40 munin chilts: Error: No such location could be found.
03:40 munin chris: The current temperature in McMurdo, Antarctica is -1.0�C (4:00 PM NZDT on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Light Snow. Humidity: 62%. Dew Point: -6.0�C. Pressure: 29.65 in 1004 hPa (Falling).
03:40 liz-nekls @wunder south pole, antarcctica
03:40 munin liz-nekls: Error: No such location could be found.
03:40 chris got it
03:40 chilts nice :)
03:40 chris you are colder than antartica
03:40 liz-nekls ah there you go
03:40 liz-nekls oh jesus
03:40 * liz-nekls faints
03:40 chilts lol
03:40 chilts hope you're ok :)
03:40 liz-nekls lol yea
03:41 liz-nekls though I guess it's summer down there
03:41 chilts heh lol even more :)
03:41 chilts summer started this morning I think, so yeah, you're just right :)
03:41 chilts been terrible
03:41 chilts on that note, time for me to brave windy Wellington
03:41 * chilts &
03:42 liz-nekls "down there" meaning both NZ and antarctica
03:42 chris is it hometime already?
03:42 chris feels like i just got here
03:50 Amit @wunder Bangalore india
03:50 munin Amit: The current temperature in Bangalore, India is 18.0�C (8:30 AM IST on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Haze. Humidity: 81%. Dew Point: 16.0�C.
03:50 brendan @wunder north pole, alaska
03:50 munin brendan: The current temperature in Speedway, North Pole, Alaska is -26.7�C (6:46 PM AKST on January 04, 2010). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: -999%. Dew Point: -67.0�C. Windchill: -27.0�C. Pressure: 30.03 in 1016.8 hPa (Steady).
03:51 brendan gotta beat liz-nekls
03:51 Amit @wunder Dehradun, India
03:51 munin Amit: The current temperature in Dehradun, India is 8.0�C (8:30 AM IST on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Heavy Fog. Humidity: 95%. Dew Point: 8.0�C. Pressure: 29.92 in 1013 hPa.
03:51 brendan sorry gotcha beat there
03:51 liz-nekls oh snap
03:51 liz-nekls yea, it's winter in the arctic lol
03:51 Amit @wunder New Delhi
03:51 munin Amit: The current temperature in New Delhi, India is 10.0�C (9:00 AM IST on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Fog. Humidity: 94%. Dew Point: 9.0�C. Windchill: 8.0�C. Pressure: 29.98 in 1015 hPa (Rising).
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04:46 liz-nekls this is kind of a silly non-koha question
04:47 liz-nekls say I have a file, 9 lines, and I want to get 8 of those lines and append some more text in a bash script
04:47 liz-nekls the appending I think I get but how to get the first 8 lines
05:05 liz-nekls never mind mind! I got it :D
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05:42 schuster asking again - hope someone is here - what command to use to pull the 3.2 release for alpha testing.
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06:53 Ropuch Morning #koha
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06:59 chris moring europe
07:00 Ropuch Morning chris
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07:02 chris i saw an email from you the other day ropuch, all talking about someone wanting to make a new library system? google translate did an ok job, I think you answered them well :-)
07:06 Ropuch Oh
07:06 Ropuch On polish forum? ;>
07:06 chris yes
07:06 chris my saved search found it
07:09 Ropuch I hoped that some of  'let's start yet another ils-wannabe piece of software' people will get interested in Koha (and lend me hand with translation), but thre's no response till now
07:10 chris there is always the temptation for people want to start again
07:10 chris its usually how you spot a developer new to free software :-)
07:11 chris the ones who have been around a while would much rather find an existing piece of software to work on :)
07:11 chris we certainly would have built on an existing one if one existed when Koha started
07:13 Ropuch Well, fresh ideas are good, but most people are not aware that full featured, MARC compliant  ILS is quite complex software
07:13 liz-nekls lordy that's the understatement of the century lol
07:14 Ropuch when I was speaking about koha on Open Solaris conf, I talked to some no-library relted IT guys
07:14 liz-nekls "it's just a database, right?"
07:14 liz-nekls ^.^
07:14 Ropuch "C'mmon, what is this all about, library software, 4 tables and here we go"
07:15 liz-nekls how about 30 libraries with individual rules and 1k interlibrary loans a day?
07:15 liz-nekls all in one database
07:15 liz-nekls silly guys.
07:15 Ropuch It's not me who you want to convince
07:15 Ropuch :)
07:16 chris like i said at kohacon in texas
07:17 chris its just a database ... with insane rules
07:18 chris its the business logic that makes it hard, not the db structure :-)
07:20 chris its the exceptions to the exceptions of the exceptions
07:20 chris and now i must go do the dishes :)
07:21 Ropuch I don't really know how are the things going in other countries, but in Poland being librarian is almost equal to some mental illnes: payments are the lowest, there's no respect associated with the job (librarian? laZy fat ass who could not get a normal job, just sitting here, drinking coffee all day)
07:21 Ropuch Or "you neeed to graduate to be librarian? And what are you doijng during study - meomorizng location of the books?"
07:22 liz-nekls oh, yea, there's a conception in the states that all librarians do is sit in the library and read books
07:24 magnusenger not too different from norway, then...
07:27 liz-nekls it may be fairly universal :D
07:27 Ropuch What a relief ;>
07:29 Ropuch liz-nekls: we're supposed to have exams on drinking coffe and saying "Shh, quiet" techniques
07:30 liz-nekls ooh, I aced shushing
07:30 liz-nekls j/k lol
07:30 Ropuch hehe
07:30 liz-nekls I have a killer "mom look"
07:30 liz-nekls the "if you do that again you'll never have cookies again" look
07:31 Ropuch Damn
07:31 * Ropuch pass the master shushing bel to liz-nekls
07:32 liz-nekls confession: I don't have a library degree -- mostly because I didn't/don't feel they would teach me what I want to know. At least not the schools near me.
07:33 * liz-nekls conjures her best Gandalf and shouts "SILENCE!"
07:33 Ropuch Well, I don't regret becoming librarian, but honestly our librarianship and information scienece studies focus too much on history
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07:35 Ropuch I remeber having an argue in last month with some "Big Librarian Fishes" about using IM and microbloging in libraries
07:37 liz-nekls oh man, you might be interested in this:
07:37 Ropuch Instead of making and twitter account and just tweet, they would rather make a "From incunabule to tweeter" conference ;>
07:37 liz-nekls training for librarians re: social technologies
07:40 Ropuch I've ordered "Social software in libraries" - will post a rewiev whet it comes
07:40 liz-nekls I think NEKLS owns that book...
07:41 Ropuch Problem is: in smaller libraries there's often people without proper education (resources and will) to make library a place where people like to be, in university libraries there is "they come to us anyway" thinking
07:42 liz-nekls yea, we struggle with that here as well
07:43 liz-nekls but we have really awesome librarians in our state, i think. For the most part they really "get" that the library in a small town is really a gathering place for the community
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08:39 CGI308 hello, anyone?
08:43 CGI308 i have a query, i install a fresyh koha server then i want to transfer the old database of our previous koha, what file im going to copy from the old koha server? im using the koha for windows
08:43 Ropuch You need to dump your database into file
08:45 CGI308 how? technically im a moron with this thing
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08:46 paul_p chris: about ?
08:48 Ropuch CGI308: hym, it would be easier if you had Koha installed on linux, if it's windows I can only guess
08:48 Ropuch Ypu should have some mysql database installed on your win box
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09:06 slef is there a meeting about now, or am I confused?
09:07 Colin 19:00 Chris has sent out a correction email
09:07 slef not opened that mailbox yet
09:07 slef thanks
09:07 Colin I got here before I did too
09:08 slef I was delayed by pouring coffee over a neighbouring office
09:09 slef oh well, I'll go do other stuff for a while :-)
09:15 Kivutar why is C4 named C4?
09:20 magnusenger something about HLTs old system being called C2, so someone thought naming the new system C4 would make it twice as good, i think? i may be remembering this wrong...
09:22 magnusenger ah, here it is:[…]_config_and_so_on
09:23 magnusenger hm, the bit about translations further down on that page seems somewhat out of date...
09:26 * magnusenger added a link to - better than nothing...
09:34 chris back now
09:35 paul_p hi chris. did you see marc roberson has a new position ?
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09:36 chris Kivutar: magnusenger is mostly right, C4 was a working name, C4 being twice as good ... or it will explode (c4 being the name of a explosive)
09:36 chris paul_p: yes i did
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09:42 Kivutar :)
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12:56 nengard morning all
12:56 jdavidb Hi, nengard! :)
12:57 nengard trying to decide where to start :)
12:58 jwagner A cup of caffiene might be a good place....
12:58 * jwagner heads off to get tea
13:05 paul_p morning nengard & jwagner & jdavidb
13:05 jwagner Bonjour paul_p
13:05 jdavidb morning, paul_p! :)\
13:05 paul_p jdavidb (& others) : did you see that Marc Roberson has left LL ?
13:06 jdavidb I did see that, Paul.
13:06 gmcharlt good morning
13:06 gmcharlt not many left
13:06 paul_p good morning gmcharlt
13:06 paul_p gmcharlt: ???
13:07 gmcharlt at LL, I mean
13:07 nengard Congrats to Marc!!
13:08 paul_p jdavidb: true. not that good for their customers, for sure.
13:09 slef we also have no employees, but we're a partnership, so that's OK
13:10 nengard :)
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13:15 nengard if you're on LinkedIn - I added KohaCon as an event you can mark your interest in:[…]n-2010/pub/195161
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13:40 jwagner @wunder 20817
13:40 munin jwagner: The current temperature in Langley Fork Park, McLean, Virginia is -3.2�C (8:38 AM EST on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 63%. Dew Point: -9.0�C. Windchill: -3.0�C. Pressure: 29.92 in 1013.1 hPa (Steady).
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14:01 schuster wizzyrea you here?
14:03 ColinC is now known as Colin
14:12 paul_p happy new year schuster !
14:13 schuster Thanks same to you!  It's started off with me finally getting an old laptop running debian lenny last night about 11:30 pm Finally! agh.
14:18 owen @wunder 45701
14:18 munin owen: The current temperature in Athens, Ohio is -8.0�C (8:54 AM EST on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Light Snow. Humidity: 79%. Dew Point: -12.0�C. Windchill: -15.0�C. Pressure: 30.09 in 1019 hPa (Steady).
14:19 paul_p Colin: thanks for your cleaning patches !
14:21 nengard cleaning is a great way to start the new year
14:28 Colin There's plenty of cleaning to do
14:44 brendan @wunder 93117
14:44 munin brendan: The current temperature in Northwest Goleta, Goleta, California is 5.5�C (6:38 AM PST on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 70%. Dew Point: 1.0�C. Windchill: 6.0�C. Pressure: 30.07 in 1018.2 hPa (Rising).
14:47 owen Nice. I wish our windchill was higher than the air temperature!
14:59 liz-nekls @wunder 66047
14:59 munin liz-nekls: The current temperature in Lawrence Live-Courtesy of the Khoury's, Lawrence, Kansas is -13.1�C (8:57 AM CST on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 85%. Dew Point: -15.0�C. Windchill: -13.0�C. Pressure: 30.48 in 1032.1 hPa (Rising).
14:59 liz-nekls how can it be colder here than ohio?!
14:59 liz-nekls that's just not right
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15:01 owen liz-nekls: Sorry to break it to you, but at least compared to this part of Ohio Kansas weather is almost always worse.
15:01 liz-nekls *sob*
15:01 jdavidb @wunder 20852
15:01 munin jdavidb: The current temperature in Flower Valley, Rockville, Maryland is -1.6�C (9:53 AM EST on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 56%. Dew Point: -9.0�C. Windchill: -6.0�C. Pressure: 29.63 in 1003.3 hPa (Steady).
15:02 jdavidb Balmy here, by comparison.
15:02 owen liz-nekls: Witness the first snow I experienced here after I moved here in high school: There was an inch or less on the ground and I dutifully trudged to the bus stop only to be told school had been canceled.
15:02 jdavidb jwagner wondered out loud why I wasn't wearing a heavier coat this morning.  The answer:  because we are not in Kansas.
15:03 liz-nekls owen: hahahaha
15:03 liz-nekls we've got like 8 inches on the ground, it's the most I can remember in a loooong time
15:03 liz-nekls it's not DC snowpocalypse, but it's enough
15:04 owen 8 inches would be a snowpocalypse around here
15:05 jdavidb 8 inches is the Magic Number here, too.  (That's the height above ground of the electrified third rail on the Metro.  8" triggers the shutdown of all aboveground segments, which would strand me at home, pretty-much.
15:05 magnusenger @wunder bodo, norway
15:05 munin magnusenger: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is -10.0�C (3:20 PM CET on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 67%. Dew Point: -15.0�C. Windchill: -19.0�C. Pressure: 29.89 in 1012 hPa (Steady).
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15:06 owen there you go liz-nekls, you're colder than Norway!
15:06 liz-nekls Ooh, do I win a bad weather prize?
15:06 liz-nekls ok, now i really must get up and get the wee one ready for playtime and get into work.
15:07 owen The bad weather prize is a bronze statuette in the shape of that dirty ice that builds up in back of your tire when you drive in the snow.
15:07 jdavidb Owen!  ew!   There's a great huge car-sized pile of that stuff in the grass next to my bus stop, still.
15:07 magnusenger hehe - but we've got windchill of -19
15:08 owen magnusenger: True. You'll have to share the prize, like a Nobel prize for bad weather.
15:08 magnusenger cool! (pun intended...)
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15:27 moodaepo @wunder 56001
15:27 munin moodaepo: The current temperature in MSU Physics Dept, Mankato, Minnesota is -24.4�C (9:25 AM CST on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 67%. Dew Point: -29.0�C. Windchill: -24.0�C. Pressure: 30.39 in 1029.0 hPa (Steady).
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15:45 nengard site set up for koha newsletter - now i just need some articles to include :)
15:45 nengard they can be as short as 2 lines - if you have something to share with the koha world, please email me :)
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16:02 hdl_laptop @seen pianohacker
16:02 munin hdl_laptop: pianohacker was last seen in #koha 16 hours, 2 minutes, and 33 seconds ago: <pianohacker> Off to work on college applications, have a great evening, everybody
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16:04 rhcl ping wizyrea
16:04 rhcl oops wizzyrea
16:09 rhcl @seen jdavidb
16:09 munin rhcl: jdavidb was last seen in #koha 1 hour, 1 minute, and 21 seconds ago: <jdavidb> Owen!  ew!   There's a great huge car-sized pile of that stuff in the grass next to my bus stop, still.
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16:20 owen Hey liz-nekls, rhcl was lookin' for you
16:20 rhcl liz liz, are you there?
16:22 liz-nekls I saw your message rhcl, i'll have to think about it
16:22 * liz-nekls is in a meetiing :(
16:23 rhcl rog
16:32 nengard thanks to all who have emailed me so far - we're at 6 items in the newsletter!! woo hoo!!
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16:34 nengard i think I'm going to set the publication date to the 15th of each month
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16:43 paul_p nengard++
16:44 brendan agreed paul_p
16:44 brendan nengard++
16:50 ColinC is now known as Colin
16:51 jdavidb rhcl:  pong?
16:53 rhcl jdavidb: just a sec
16:57 jdavidb okies.
16:58 nengard Colin - re: bug 3945 -- are you saying that it works for you?
17:00 Colin nengard: Works for me and on customer sites
17:00 nengard strange - it's always been an issue for me - and i've installed new dbs - like this one
17:01 nengard anyone have the issue i mentioned in 3945?
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17:01 Colin if you select the blank line which supplier is retrieved?
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17:09 nengard Colin - nada - nothing - zilch :)
17:10 nengard is it possible that I see that row because I have subscriptions without suppliers? something that should be allowed - the page warns you that you won't be able to claim if you don't enter a vendor - so those subscriptions shouldn't show at all on that page
17:13 Colin Possible.. leave it with me and I'll try and duplicate it (and maybe even fix it!!)
17:15 jdavidb colin++
17:19 rhcl is now known as rhcl_brb
17:23 nengard colin++ :)
17:24 Colin nengard: Stage one done.. I now display claims where there's no one to claim to
17:24 nengard ahhh :)
17:24 nengard i love hearing i'm not crazy :)
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18:11 * chris is gonna try to catch an early bus
18:12 chris i may be a little late to the meeting
18:12 chris but will try to get to the office before 8am
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18:30 * chris_n may be a few minutes late to the meeting
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18:44 jransom Morning all.
18:45 jransom Can someplease point me to the agenda for the meeting
18:45 owen-away is now known as owen
18:45 thd[…]etingnotes10jan05
18:47 thd jransom: meetings have their own namespace so that you can go to en:events:meetings:irc_meetings and find them all
18:48 jransom t. I had a poke around but couldn't find them (must still be in holiday mode :)
18:48 thd jransom: any higher point in the hierarchy such as en:events should have links to what is below
18:50 thd jransom: The simple way may be to find the general link from the main page by searching for meetings within the page at
18:50 jransom Thd: I have the first draft of rules for Koha foundation here. is it posssible to load them onto this wiki or stick them somewhere else, like the Trust's Kete?
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18:51 nengard jransom it should be a new page on the wiki - and/or on the kete
18:51 nengard just so long as we can find a link to it
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18:54 thd jransom: a caution from recent experience of nengard.   Uploading documents can go wrong where a PDF is not written correctly and then will not open directly in the web browser for many users.  Trying again and making a new link to the successful attempt will fix the issue.
18:55 thd ... the original name for the upload apparently cannot be overwritten without the assistance of the site administrator.
18:55 hdl_laptop hi jransom
18:55 jransom alrighty. I have put it on our Kete:[…]e_Rules_Jan10.pdf
18:57 nengard jransom can you add that link to the meeting page
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18:58 ColinC is now known as Colin
19:00 thd That wording 'intellectual property' gives rise to consternation from Richard Stallman where such 'property' is of a sufficiently different kind that he thinks the common word property is misapplied in referring to it collectively.
19:00 chris back
19:00 jransom done
19:00 chris yeah, i hate the term IP too
19:01 chris i think calling thigns what they are, trademarks, copyright etc is much more honest
19:02 * jdavidb feeds thd's last back through his English language parser again.
19:02 jransom thd: this is absolutely the first cut and I havn't read it thoroughly yet either. Welcome all comments and dicussion. I would prefer them on the Kete site as either added comments or in the body of the wiki article.
19:02 jransom I would appreciate lots of brains and unput to this :)
19:03 chris :)
19:03 thd jransom: just making idle comment about what might actually be the best term to use by legal conventions.
19:03 nengard who's running this meeting? :)
19:04 jransom nominates Nicole
19:04 * jdavidb nominates nengard.
19:04 thd Is it not you nengard?
19:04 nengard LOL
19:04 nengard okay so - i call this meeting to order
19:04 chris yep, first one to ask, runs the meeting, its the rule
19:04 jdavidb That's three.  you're drafted.
19:04 slef heh, first person to ask
19:04 nengard and we should all start with introductions
19:04 nengard Nicole C. Engard, ByWater
19:04 slef MJ Ray, member of
19:04 francharb left #koha
19:04 jdavidb J. David Bavousett, PTFS
19:04 jwagner Jane Wagner, PTFS
19:04 owen Owen Leonard, Nelsonville Public Library
19:04 jransom Joann Ransom. HLT, NZ.
19:04 brendan Brendan Gallagher, ByWater Solutions
19:05 chris Chris Cormack, Catalyst, NZ
19:05 Colin Colin Campbell PTFS Europe
19:05 thd Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
19:05 rhcl Greg Lawson, Rolling Hills Consolidated Library, St. Joseph, MO
19:05 sekjal Ian Walls, NYU Health Sciences Libraries
19:05 collum Garry Collum, Kenton County Public Library, KY
19:05 chilts Andrew Chilton, Catalyst IT, NZ
19:06 kyle Kyle Hall, Crawford County Federated Library System, Meadville, PA
19:06 wizzyrea Liz Rea NEKLS
19:06 nengard today's agenda can be found online at:[…]etingnotes10jan05
19:06 nengard who will be taking notes?
19:06 Nate Nate Curulla ByWater Solutions
19:06 hdl_laptop Henri-Damien LAURENT, BibLibre
19:06 liz-nekls left #koha
19:06 magnusenger Magnus Enger, Libriotech, Norway
19:07 GeorgeSue joined #koha
19:07 schuster David Schuster - Plano ISD
19:07 nengard volunteers to take notes?
19:07 chris its being logged, so its more a volunteer to write it up from the logs
19:08 slef I noticed the last meeting was not noted - maybe it's a good idea not to compile short notes until some dust has settled.
19:08 nengard okey dokey - then our first agenda item
19:08 chris yeah i think write up the minutes from the log after the meeting might be best
19:08 nengard Report on forming HLT Koha foundation committee. (First draft of rules:[…]committee-of-hlt)
19:09 jransom Bob has kindly helped us by writing a starting point for the rules of the koha subcommittee of hlt.
19:09 jransom It is a starting point only.
19:09 nengard where should we send suggestions/edits to?
19:10 jransom I would like to take the HLT Trustees a starting point at the end of january
19:10 jransom I think on the Kete either as a comment or else in the body of the entry. its a wiki
19:10 slef What do the yellow bits mean?  To be decided?
19:11 jransom unknown
19:11 jransom the whole thing is to bedecided
19:11 Ropuch Heloo everybody
19:11 jransom there are gaps too
19:11 GeorgeSue Happy New Year everyone:
19:11 thd slef: Is there any reason not to have notes for the benefit of those who would not take the time to read the log?
19:12 slef Kete requires registration which is a pain and does HLT want a load of one-comment koha people registering?  Can we gather comments on the wiki or a thread?
19:12 nengard jransom, can you give us a link to the kete page? I only have a link to the PDF which I cannot comment on or edit
19:12 jransom Hey George ( Horowhenua Library Trust trustee)
19:12 jransom[…]bcommittee-of-hlt
19:12 jransom sorry folks
19:12 chris_n Chris Nighswonger, FBC
19:12 jransom would it better to take commenst on the koha wiki instead
19:12 slef thd: alerting the press and certain others who aren't taking time to participate.  That may or may not matter, depending on what is reported to this meeting.
19:12 jransom rather than take it offsite
19:13 slef let me see if I can convert the PDF to a wiki page
19:13 * Ropuch Piotr Wejman, Biblioteka CSNE
19:13 slef yes, that works OK-ish.  I'll convert that to a page immediately after this meeting
19:13 slef if that's OK with HLT?
19:14 thd slef: I partly meant to encourage involvement by more interested parties at future meetings.
19:14 jransom absolutely
19:14 chris slef: i think that thats a great idea
19:14 slef ok, I've landed myself more work :-/ ;-)
19:14 thd :)
19:14 nengard should we note what edits we've made? I know that the history keeps track of that - but it may not be easy to see what everyone added/changed/suggested using the history
19:15 slef thd: yes, I appreciate the arguments for noting.
19:15 chris_n nengard: good idea
19:15 slef thd: it's unusual that we have reasons not to note, so I mention it.
19:15 slef nengard: it should not matter who wrote what.
19:15 chris_n slef: unless someone would like clarification on a point
19:15 nengard well i like knowing who to contact for clarification
19:15 slef but this is an argument which has been circulating around the co-op for months, so ho hum.
19:15 nengard chris_n reading my mind
19:15 chris_n :-)
19:16 slef either the clarification can be provided by anyone or the point should be struck
19:16 slef just write FIXME next to it and leave it a while
19:16 jransom timeframes: I would like to get this doc on the next agenda, so he 2nd to last Thursday in Jan
19:16 pianohacker joined #koha
19:16 jransom however we don't have to make that deadline.
19:17 nengard so basically we all need to carve out some time to submit comments/edits/etc in the next couple weeks
19:17 chris thats the next HLT meeting jransom ?
19:17 jransom There is no panic or rush here but steady progress would be good.
19:17 jransom yes
19:17 chris seems like a good point to aim for
19:17 chris_n steady progress++
19:17 nengard jransom if something gets held up can you submit a draft at that meeting?
19:17 masonj hi everyone
19:17 thd Someone could attach his clear name or initials if they think that they may need to explain further about a comment in the wiki.
19:17 nengard thd works for me
19:18 masonj Mason James, KohaAloha NZ
19:18 thd s/they/his/g
19:18 jransom I could but we do try to get all papers out with the agenda so trustees have time to read and digest before the meeting; makes for better quality deciionmaking :)
19:18 nengard jransom - makes sense!
19:19 GeorgeSue We eill need a short minutes for each meeting for the records.
19:19 nengard okay - so can we all agree to try to take some time to make edits/additions?
19:19 slef +1
19:19 chris yep
19:19 thd ++
19:19 jransom yes
19:19 schuster +
19:19 chris_n +1
19:19 GeorgeSue yes
19:19 chris id also like to propose a motion of thanks to bob birchall at calyx for the initial draft
19:19 nengard awesome - so we'll try to finish the Weds before the meeting - does that work?
19:19 chris_n seconded
19:19 nengard what date is that?
19:20 schuster draft motion for Bob!+
19:20 nengard bob++
19:20 jransom bob++
19:20 jransom (i don't have a calender handy)
19:20 slef BobCalyx++
19:20 chris_n Jan 21 ??
19:20 slef thu 21 jan?
19:20 hdl_laptop +1
19:21 nengard So Weds the 20th - is that enough time? and remember we're talking the 20th in NZ time
19:21 chris thats the 19th for most of youse fullas
19:21 jransom yep. Thats good.
19:21 chris_n looks fine to me
19:21 slef ok to me
19:21 nengard okay - so next item on the agenda
19:21 nengard Report on status of negotiations over assignment of trademarks and domains.
19:21 nengard is Vikki here?
19:22 jransom no.
19:22 schuster No but I am in her place kind of.
19:22 schuster David Schuster
19:22 jransom I have apologies and a statement from her
19:22 jransom from Vicki: I've had conversion with Joshua Ferraro at LibLime and there will be opportunity for continued discussion and negotiation.  I ask for a postponement to allow negotiations to continue."
19:23 nengard which kind of brings us to #3 Possible suggestions on unresolved negotiations.
19:23 GeorgeSue Sorry away form 18 to 2nd Feb, My apologies,, may not have coverage
19:23 thd We should be sure to have the NZ time translated to be clear.
19:23 jransom The 16th Jan has been requested as a postponement date
19:23 jransom David: anthing to add?
19:23 thd Which negotiations are unresolved?
19:24 nengard those to get the koha domain and trademarks transferred to HLT
19:24 schuster No you are right on. FYI that is also the American Library Association Conference.
19:24 thd or are we referring to LibLime still?
19:24 jransom as Nicole said.
19:25 jdavidb vicki++ , for having those conversations with Josh.
19:25 chris i think if negotiations are still continuing, it is in our best interest to let them continue a bit more
19:25 nengard okay - so does anyone want to say anything about postponing until ALA Midwinter - aka 16th of Jan
19:25 jransom (stunned silence)
19:25 wizzyrea I am for it
19:25 chris_n I agree w/chris
19:25 jransom me to
19:25 owen +1
19:25 thd there is an issue in parallel
19:25 Nate +1
19:25 masonj +1
19:25 Ropuch +1
19:25 thd ++
19:25 slef I do not support it, but will not oppose.
19:25 sekjal +1
19:25 GeorgeSue me too
19:26 nengard I'm with slef - i'll go with the majority
19:26 thd I would like to introduce the parallel issue
19:26 nengard k
19:26 schuster +
19:26 nengard thd what issue?
19:26 * chris_n thinks it best to let LL slam the door
19:26 jransom renaming, rebranding and relaunch with 3.2
19:26 thd As part of my communication with the Software Freedom Law Center ...
19:27 thd in the context of relicensing the wiki content the US trademark came up
19:27 thd they are interested in researching the possibility of having the US trademark nullified
19:27 jransom :)
19:28 chris_n nice
19:28 nengard thd and what would that entail?
19:28 schuster Interesting...
19:28 rhcl ? details? we're all ears
19:28 GeorgeSue What does that mean
19:28 thd they also mentioned a possibility that control of the domain might be challenged independently of trademark control
19:28 slef What does that mean?  Would that leave it open to future registration, or make Koha a generic term?
19:28 * chris hopes for the latter
19:28 chris cos thats how it is in NZ already
19:29 thd I wanted community approval and participation to help them with their research
19:29 jransom Oh I'll vote a big yes
19:29 nengard thd - what does that require from us?  how do we help exactly?
19:29 * chris_n too
19:29 nengard i am by the way on board as well - just want to be clear on where we go next
19:29 chris_n it can certainly provide greater leverage on all fronts
19:29 jdavidb I would support that.  It won't hurt a thing to find out the how-and-what-it-means.
19:29 thd Well they have no background really and I did not want to act unilaterally
19:30 thd the only background they have is my brief verbal explanation
19:30 nengard thd I have some background research that I did already after the last meeting and can send that to you or to them
19:30 jransom would love to see the word Koha treated internationally as it is in NZ
19:30 jransom (would protect kete as well..)
19:30 thd I have a contact person there with whom I consulted about the wiki
19:31 slef thd: I'd be happy for you to continue exploring this, but would like that you to "the community" in some way before acting on it.
19:31 schuster I would also suggest that maybe their questions be written and posted on listservs/wiki so many people could respond to them with contact information?
19:31 thd They would also of course need any information which anyone could find that might be thought of as legal grounds
19:31 chris id agree with that
19:32 jransom I think Brendan raised an issue once about this
19:32 thd exactly slef, I have been very cautious because I certainly do not want to even be perceived as acting unilaterally
19:32 thd remember though we are only speaking about researching the possibility
19:32 chris_n thd: I have an email which outlines several pertinent points which could be forwarded
19:33 nengard my suggestion on this issue is that we research between now and the new deadline - the 16th - and if negotiations go well then we can stop research - and if not we can see what is needed to move forward
19:33 nengard how's that work for you all?
19:33 thd I also think that the issue is too important to leave to one set of lawyers and we should seek alternate advice via EFF for example
19:34 chris_n EFF?
19:34 thd Electronic Frontier Foundation
19:34 hdl_laptop nengard++
19:34 thd they also have lawyers who volunteer time to free software projects
19:34 schuster Too many lawyers creates too much confusion and who is right.???
19:35 Nate nicole, i agree with you, but think we should try to have as many ducks in a row as possible before the 16th
19:35 slef The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) is an international non-profit advocacy and legal organization based in the United States with the stated purpose of being dedicated to preserving the right to freedom of speech, such as protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, in the context of today's digital age (see also digital rights)...
19:35 thd big projects like Debian SPI consult several sets of lawyers do they not slef?
19:35 slef only one per issue, generally, I think
19:35 chris_n imho, we should work all possible fronts at the same time to provide maximum pressure
19:35 thd ok I stand corrected
19:36 thd SFLC seems enthusiastic and has a legal director who is a patent and trademarks expert
19:36 slef SPI has two sets of lawyers but I think they ask whoever is more available
19:36 nengard might I jump in and remind you all about law librarians :) they too can help :)
19:37 thd We need all the help that we can get on this issue
19:37 chris_n thd++
19:37 thd Even if the trademark might not be actively used against the community at this moment there is always the uncertainty of the future
19:37 schuster thd - we have some possible positive action with the group you are currently working with so I think it would be good to exhaust that before turning elsewhere, and not to move to far until we know what the outcome of the Jan 16th deadline is.
19:38 nengard schuster research is always worthwhile
19:38 nicomo left #koha
19:38 richard joined #koha
19:38 richard hi
19:38 thd I agree that I am corrected schuster
19:38 schuster nengard - agreed - in all maters!
19:38 sekjal having_more_information++
19:38 nengard we should know what our rights are - and I think we should see what these people have to say
19:38 jransom protetcting the futre ++
19:39 nengard we can make it clear that we're in negotiations
19:39 schuster future ++
19:39 thd I have very convenient access even directly to this lawyer although SFLC has been busy recently with busybox lawsuits but I do not want to be the exclusive contact person
19:40 nengard okay - so where are we on this issue? research done in the open while negotiations continue until the 16th of Jan
19:40 chris_n I propose that we authorize thd to continue communications with SFLC on behalf of the koha community
19:40 thd being situated in NYC where SFLC is gives me an advantage
19:40 chris doing_stuff_in_the_open++
19:40 chris chris_n: +1
19:40 nengard chris_n +1
19:40 nengard chris +1
19:41 thd I would like to coordinate things with at least one other person for what might be necessary
19:41 Ropuch chris_n +1
19:41 jransom thd: if you need anything from HLT just ask
19:41 hdl_laptop chris_n++ chris++
19:41 sekjal chris_n +1
19:41 rhcl +1
19:41 thd However, I think that information could be passed openly on the mailing list unless there is some fear about some particular bit of information
19:41 schuster thd - it would make sense for HLT to be in the loop on these discussions..
19:41 jransom thd: Chris C?
19:42 chris dear god no
19:42 jransom lol
19:42 chris im juggling 5 million balls at the moment already
19:42 masonj chris_n +1
19:42 thd nothing should be pursued without consulting HLT
19:42 jransom but youknow stuff from early days og koha
19:42 chris im happy to help out with historical stuff if needed
19:43 chris_n thd: did you have anyone in mind?
19:43 schuster As HLT is going to be the holder - it wouldn't hurt for someone jransom or GeorgeSue? to be involved to understand what the US Lawyers are saying.
19:43 thd Each of us may have some information about historical stuff which we might have heard or discover in the public record of the mailing list etc. if we would look.
19:43 chris but cant offer much more time than that
19:43 jransom Schuster: nods
19:44 thd schuster: I intend for HLT to be consulted on every step and I think that most communication can be forwarded to the mailing list
19:44 jransom sounds excellent - mailing list for evrything wherever possible
19:45 chris yes, i agree
19:45 chris_n +1
19:45 schuster thd - I thought you were asking for another individual to be involved with your direct discussions.
19:45 nengard +1
19:45 hdl_laptop +1
19:45 masonj +1
19:46 chris thd often thinks aloud, it's a process i appreciate
19:46 jransom It should probably be from hLT since we are the parent org fr koha community
19:46 chris_n jransom +1
19:46 jransom but it may not be the most useful 2nd person.
19:46 thd We need to find anything we think might help such as statements that LibLime intended to hold assets in question for the community until a community organisation was ready etc.
19:46 GeorgeSue HLT will help
19:47 chris_n thd: I went through some of that a while back
19:47 schuster If items are found where are we posting/linking/sending for future reference?
19:47 chris_n it may be in an email or the channel log
19:47 GeorgeSue Hlt will help where possible
19:47 thd well GeorgeSue could be a contact person at HLT.
19:47 brendan left #koha
19:47 brendan joined #koha
19:48 schuster GeorgeSue ++ if willing
19:49 thd I would actually like a contact person at BibLibre because in addition to anyone else becuase their co-operation could be essential for any actual challenge on at least one possible point.
19:49 nengard okay so the next agenda item I think we can skip since negotiations are not concluded: 'Next issues if negotiations have concluded.'
19:49 GeorgeSue I think Jo should  be the the contact person as I will be out of coverage
19:49 hdl_laptop thd: you can count on me.
19:49 jransom me too
19:49 thd thanks hdl_laptop and jransom
19:50 nengard great so hdl_laptop and jransom will work with thd in communicating with the lawyer and we will all share research and info on the mailing list
19:50 jransom yes
19:50 schuster nengard - I don't know about skipping - getting things in place physically is a good idea as well or at least an outline of a plan.
19:50 nengard okay - so then the next agenda item is:   Next issues if negotiations have concluded.
19:51 chris well, cant really answer that
19:51 jransom well concluded negotiations can be of 2 sorts: we have the stuff or we don't
19:51 nengard that's what i thought :)
19:51 chris cos negotiations might conclude in 12 different ways
19:51 chris or 23
19:51 chris or 431
19:51 nengard hehe
19:51 chris_n lol
19:51 nengard okay so i repeat okay so the next agenda item I think we can skip since negotiations are not concluded: 'Next issues if negotiations have concluded.'
19:52 jransom We are still posiitioning us incase we have to relaunch aye...
19:52 nengard which brings us to the final agenda item of coming up with a next meeting
19:52 jransom like grabbing wiki and bugzilla copies?
19:52 thd One of the next issues is if the answer from LibLime is complete silence do we put up or some such which is where researching the trademark may become immediately important not that the presence of the trademark should stop us
19:52 chris i think if silence is the result
19:52 chris we need to break the silence
19:52 chris and by we, i mean libraries
19:52 slef openkoha is still a awful name
19:53 chris_n libraries-break-silence++
19:53 nengard libraries-break-silence++++
19:53 * chris_n thinks they should in any case
19:53 chris as you all know by now, im sick of being attacked when i point out things
19:53 nengard but then again i said that already openly and was shot down by libraries
19:53 jransom We must be seen to be actively taking positive steps to reclaim Koha for the community. I like open koha :)
19:53 thd slef: It is not my favourite either but please win favour for a beter one
19:53 slef thd: let's cross that bridge if we need to.
19:53 chris and im not prepared to do it anymore
19:53 nengard :(
19:53 masonj i like 'openkoha' too
19:53 chris if the libraries are not willing to back us up
19:54 thd not prepared to do what chris?
19:54 nengard argue for librarians
19:54 nengard he wants them to stand up for themselves
19:54 slef well, one of our libraries has asked me to report what happens here
19:54 chris what she said
19:54 jransom I think a Liblime client problem has become a Koha community problem.
19:55 nengard are we getting off topic - should we come up with a next meeting and then close this meeting?
19:55 chris i think perhaps so
19:55 jransom and LL need to be honest about problems and take steps to resolve them.
19:55 schuster LibLime clients are trying to be legally correct in dealing with our vendor.  Working in the background until Jan 16th.
19:55 nengard okay  - so do we do the first Tues of Feb at this time
19:55 schuster Yes please.
19:55 * chris just had to put that out there, it was making me deeply unhappy and ive resolved not to let it anymore
19:55 chris_n feb 2+
19:56 chris_n +
19:56 schuster chris ++
19:56 jdavidb chris++ #for all sorts of reasons.
19:56 nengard okay so the next meeting is Tuesday, 2 February 2010 at 19:00 UTC+0
19:56 GeorgeSue My apology
19:56 nengard I hearby close this meeting - let the ranting begin
19:56 nengard or continue or whatever :)
19:56 jransom ok. Thanks Nicole.
19:56 jransom thanks everyone.
19:56 thd I think that jransom raises an important point that, if I interpret correctly, it is unrealistic to expect customers to overtly risk damaging their relationship with a company while they have an ongoing contract with the company.
19:56 chris thanks nengard
19:56 hdl_laptop thanks nengard
19:56 nengard no prob all :)
19:57 schuster But...  Deadlines are Jan 16th and 20th so we'll sit on things until Feb 2nd - ??
19:57 jdavidb Good job, nengard.  nice and quick.
19:57 Ropuch :)
19:57 jransom good point
19:57 chris schuster: we can always call a special meeting if somethign happens such that one is needed
19:57 nengard schuster - the info after the 16th can be shared on list and then what chris said
19:57 Nate thd: isn't that a bit backwards
19:58 chris Nate++
19:58 masonj nate++  lol
19:58 nengard Nate++
19:58 thd Nate: Is what backwards?
19:58 Nate I thought the customer made their vendor fear for damaging a relationship
19:58 chris_n if expressing dissatisfaction with QOS puts relations at a risk, then the relationship was already sour
19:58 sekjal Nate++
19:58 thd Nate++
19:58 thd yes
19:59 thd at least as it should be Nate
19:59 schuster OK thanks for the meeting Nicole - Feb 2nd!  Looking forward to good news between now and then.  Have a great day everyone off to another meeting!  This one F2F!
19:59 chris_n and "being legally correct" does not exclude the right to express dissatisfaction imho
19:59 Nate Well, it is with some companies :)
19:59 nengard chris_n i think you're required to express disatisfaction - otherwise how does the company know they need to fix something?
20:00 nengard and how do others know what to expect from the company?
20:00 chris_n nengard: exactly ;-)
20:00 Nate AMEN!
20:00 thd for the immediate record my contact person at SFLC
20:00 thd Aaron Williamson
20:00 slef LMSes are mission-critical, so librarians seem to be a bit scared of upsetting them.
20:00 thd Counsel
20:00 thd Software Freedom Law Center
20:00 thd 1995 Broadway, 17th Fl.
20:00 thd New York, NY 10023
20:00 thd (212) 461-1911 direct
20:00 thd (212) 580-0898 fax
20:00 thd
20:00 nengard slef - but the thing with Koha is - if you upset the vendor you still get to use/keep the software
20:00 slef Given the postponement, I don't think there's any harm in noting this meeting.
20:01 slef nengard: not LLEK...
20:01 nengard but the libraries who are upset don't want LLEK - they have Koha and want to keep Koha
20:01 nengard and they're not speaking up
20:01 thd at least he has been the contact person about the wiki and volunteered to research the trademark issue
20:01 masonj thd: thanks for your effort with SFLC, too
20:01 slef yeah, that's a bit odd
20:01 nengard they're sending me emails out of the public eye and nagging chris to do something
20:01 slef thd: where in the namespace should the draft rules go?
20:02 slef en:organisations:koha_proj​ect_organisation:hlt:rules ?
20:04 slef nengard: write a really good canned reply saying you'd love to help, but you cannot be the lone gunmen any more.
20:04 slef The Lone Gunmen are a trio of fictional characters, Richard "Ringo" Langly, Melvin Frohike and John Fitzgerald Byers, who had recurring roles on The X-Files and also starred in a short-lived spin-off, also called The Lone Gunmen. The name was derived from the lone gunman theory of the John F. Kennedy assassination.
20:04 nengard I wrote it publically :) don't want to be a hypocrite and ask others to be public when I wouldn't :)
20:05 slef sure, I saw that - be ready to email the link out lots too ;-)
20:05 slef I think I commented... quite often, you can post to blogs which I can't/won't because they discriminate against users with disabilities
20:06 slef posting at the namespace location I said
20:08 thd slef: I am not the arbitrator of namespace rules :)
20:08 thd slef: just create one if you do not find one suitable
20:08 thd However I can help
20:09 thd I spent all of a weekend putting some things in namespaces when I could not find discussions about the foundation in one place
20:09 thd they were not in fact linked in the wiki only in email messages
20:09 slef[…]isation:hlt:rules posted
20:10 tirabo left #koha
20:10 thd I was so exhausted by my effort from that weekend that I neglected to note what I had done for the mailing list.
20:11 thd The real problem was that I had trouble initially using the correct syntax for namespaces
20:11 slef yeah, it's quite unlike any other wiki I've seen
20:11 thd I kept getting pages when trying to create namespaces
20:12 thd Hence, my effort to describe how to do it so that it actually works
20:12 slef damn... when I was editing the rules for wiki markup, I remember seeing something and thinking "that looks odd" but now I can't remember what ;-)
20:14 thd I was merely reconstituting something from KohaCon 2006 DevWeek which was apparently lost when peirrick left the community in consequence of INNEO leaving
20:16 slef fond it in section 6
20:16 slef found, even
20:16 slef and another in section 5
20:17 chris_n what TZ is the wiki in?
20:17 magnusenger left #koha
20:18 slef probably Ohio USA
20:18 slef no, -0800 AFAICT
20:19 chris its on ec2 somewhere i think
20:19 slef It's at Spry Hosting, Seattle
20:19 chris ahh that'd be right
20:20 slef you know more than my traceroute ;-)
20:20 chris :)
20:20 slef Does it lock more nicely if you edit sections not the whole thing?
20:21 slef I'll come back and play again after dinner, probably
20:21 chris sweet thanks for doing that slef
20:21 thd slef: yes, sections are good for avoiding locking conflicts
20:21 chris i wonder thd do you want to email the list about the SFLC ?
20:21 slef fbcit has it locked I think
20:23 thd chris: I could do that immediately but I was wondering if I should wait for some answer from SFLC about they type of information which they would find helpful in case I might miss something in my first announcement which will get the most attention
20:23 chris not sure, i think it might be good for the community to know that legal advice is being sought
20:24 thd I agree completely
20:24 thd I just do not want to miss the participation of someone who would ignore everything after the first post
20:25 chris_n slef: unlocked now... sorry
20:26 thd I will try to obtain an immediate answer about what might be helpful and then post what I can think of with a stay tuned message.
20:26 chris_n slef: did you see my post about the patron card tool?
20:28 Colin left #koha
20:32 wizzyrea EC2 is either in US Eastern or US Pacific
20:33 wizzyrea (I learned that this week, aren't you glad)
20:34 * chris_n feels very enlightened on learning that bit of knowledge ;-)
20:35 chris :)
20:35 chris wizzyrea: you should do a blog post about mpm-tik
20:35 chris it would be useful for koha too
20:36 chris specially for anyone running more than one koha instance on the same machine
20:36 chris that way you can tighten the privileges on koha-conf.xml right up
20:36 wizzyrea ooh
20:36 * wizzyrea puts that on her to do list
20:36 owen mpm-tik?
20:37 wizzyrea seriously, mpm-tik = WIN
20:37 chris apache2-mpm-tik ... ill let wizzyrea explain :)
20:37 nengard k  time for me to log off - i'll probably be back - as you all know i can't stay away :) hehe
20:37 nengard left #koha
20:37 wizzyrea ooh, I don't really have time to explain right now owen, but ask me later, okies?
20:38 * owen will
20:40 collum cool!
20:43 wizzyrea collum: I KNO!!!
20:44 wizzyrea it's so great.
20:44 wizzyrea so. So. Great.
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20:46 davi slef, I was late in the meeting because I did not know about it. Reading the log now.
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21:12 chris_n bbl
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21:14 collum @wunder 41017
21:14 munin collum: The current temperature in Taylor Mill, Taylor Mill, Kentucky is -6.1�C (4:10 PM EST on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Light Snow. Humidity: 83%. Dew Point: -8.0�C. Windchill: -6.0�C. Pressure: 28.84 in 976.5 hPa (Rising). Winter Storm Watch in effect from Thursday morning through Thursday evening...
21:15 collum snow
21:20 davi openkoha is a bad name
21:20 davi very bad I would say.
21:21 wizzyrea @wunder 66047
21:21 munin wizzyrea: The current temperature in Lawrence Live-Courtesy of the Khoury's, Lawrence, Kansas is -6.3�C (3:19 PM CST on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 68%. Dew Point: -11.0�C. Windchill: -6.0�C. Pressure: 30.39 in 1029.0 hPa (Falling).
21:21 hdl_laptop left #koha
21:22 davi At the right time I will propose a better name
21:22 davi 'open' is a very bad prefix.
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21:27 rhcl Is OpenOffice bad? OpenBSD? Open Sesame? OpenSuse?
21:28 pianohacker It is a bit generic, but others have used it
21:32 owen left #koha
21:32 rhcl Well, I certainly think it's possible to argue that we have too many Open* somethings now, but OpenKoha might indicate clearly that there is a "closed" Koha and an "open" Koha in the same sense that there is a closed Office and an Open Office.
21:32 * chilts like Open Koha ... it's implicit of it's meaning
21:32 chilts because of prior art
21:34 hdl_laptop joined #koha
21:34 Ropuch I like Open Koha too
21:34 rhcl It might be a poor second choice, since Koha should be truly free and open as it was originally designed to be, but the only other name I like is Koala, and nobody besides me seems to like that.
21:35 Ropuch There's Koala Player
21:35 chris i think i have to renounce my nz citizenship if we change the name to an australian animal
21:35 rhcl Well, there's lots of Koala bears too, but Koala ILS has a certain charm.
21:35 Ropuch chris: ;-)
21:36 richard aw mate, they are so cuddly :)
21:36 Ropuch rhcl: I thinkd we should preserve "Koha" part of name
21:36 davi rhcl, Completed the log reading
21:36 rhcl Let's see Koala Koha?
21:36 Ropuch Karmic Koala Koha?
21:36 Ropuch ;>
21:36 davi OpenOffice bad? OpenBSD? Open Sesame? OpenSuse?  There are better names
21:37 davi What about  LibreLib  ?
21:37 rhcl Hey, how about "Lemon Koha" since there is a "Lime Koha"?
21:37 davi OpenSource is weak
21:37 Ropuch It's like mix of LibLime & BibLibre
21:38 davi Free Software add the user freedom value
21:38 davi and LibreLib does not sound bad
21:38 pianohacker A bit awkward to pronounce
21:38 rhcl Just so :)
21:38 davi I will propose LibreLib in the next meeting
21:38 davi LibreLib
21:39 rhcl Note that many people would take to writing LibreLib as "LL"
21:39 pianohacker Also, I am extremely confident that I would hear it said "LeeberLib"
21:39 Ropuch davi: removing Koha from name is giving up 10 years of history and recognition
21:39 davi That can be even a good thing
21:39 chris yeah i will strongly resist removing koha from the name
21:39 davi You are right Ropuch
21:39 pianohacker Koha has, among other things, very obvious pronunciation in a lot of languages
21:39 davi What about LibreKoha
21:40 chris as a maori, im not having some american company removing a maori word from my usage
21:40 davi LibreLib Koha
21:40 chilts Open Koha is way easier
21:40 davi LibreLib (Koha)
21:40 Ropuch pianohacker: it sounds exactly like (he|she) loves in polish
21:40 davi LibreLib Koha
21:41 davi LibreLib (Koha)
21:41 davi LibreLib Koha
21:41 Ropuch Trying to make some asci art? ;>
21:41 davi I do not know. I am confused
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21:43 davi What about
21:44 davi LibKoha
21:44 davi ?
21:44 davi or
21:44 davi Lib Koha
21:44 davi or
21:44 davi Koha Lib
21:44 rhcl Tuatara?
21:44 pianohacker not bad. In any case, I have to head off, see y'all
21:44 pianohacker left #koha
21:46 rafael left #koha
21:49 lee8buttemib_bp I know I missed the IRC meeting can I get the link to the archives chat from someone?
21:52 davi I can send you it.
21:52 davi Can you let me know your email in private?
21:52 lee8buttemib_bp thanks
21:53 davi processing ...
21:58 davi Sent
21:58 chris[…]10-01-05#i_368182
21:58 davi Who you work for lee8buttemib_bp ?
21:58 lee8buttemib_bp many thanks
21:59 chris its all publicly logged
21:59 lee8buttemib_bp Butte Public Library
21:59 davi ack
21:59 lee8buttemib_bp hi Chris
21:59 lee8buttemib_bp long time no chat
22:00 thd hdl_laptop: I just had a conversation with the lawyer from SFLC who indicates that a message on the mailing list about researching the trademark / domain issue would be likely to be construed as antagonistic and harmful to the possibility of an easy painless resolution of the issue.
22:02 jransom joined #koha
22:02 thd If anyone thinks that it would be a mistake to take that legal advice against an announcement about legal research at this point on the mailing list please let me know.
22:03 chris ill defer to the lawyers on that
22:03 thd jransom: do you see my two messages above?
22:03 chris course, this is all publicly logged anyway
22:03 thd chris: I explained that to the lawyer.
22:03 Nate goodnight #Koha
22:03 Nate left #koha
22:04 thd chris: There is an issue of degree of forwardness and the interpretation of hostility despite the best possible research only explanation.
22:04 chris fair enough
22:05 thd jransom: are you there?
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22:10 slef chris_n: not yet (post about patron card tool)
22:18 slef thd: I have no problem with not posting this yet. The reasons seem similar to why I thought we might not want to compile notes of the meeting yet.
22:19 thd slef: yes I had imagined that had been your reasoning about the notes but it was not perfectly clear to me.
22:20 slef well, that and not tipping them off cheaply
22:20 chris anything you guys dont want in the public log
22:20 chris prefix with [off]
22:20 chris otherwise it all ends up there
22:21 chris just fyi
22:21 slef in line with[…]adows#Information
22:21 thd chris does off allow everyone logged in to see it but avoid logging?
22:21 chris_n2 yes
22:21 chris yes
22:22 slef chris: I didn't realise that.  Something earlier today makes more sense now.
22:22 chris_n2 thd: see[…]10-01-05#i_368756
22:22 slef I'm not particularly bothered to hide the TM questions, but I don't see any reason to actively publicise them just now.
22:22 chris_n2 where my comment with [off] does not appear
22:22 slef biab
22:24 thd |off| chris_n2: I think that we should be as public as we reasonably can and I would only favour using off for a meeting if there would be a direct and immediate threat to the community where we could not respond properly in the open
22:24 slef thd: square brackets [] not bars ||
22:37 chris off is more use when doing things like email addresses
22:37 chris or phone numbers
22:37 chris that you dont want in the log
22:37 chris imho
22:43 brendan I feel like I'm reading the movie airplane
22:43 chris_n2 lol
22:43 brendan [over]
22:45 chris hehe
22:49 slef[…]etingnotes10feb02 created
22:50 chris thanks slef
22:50 slef I'll read back the logs later and see if the agenda should change, but please beat me to it.
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