Time Nick Message 00:36 rhcl ping wizzyrea 01:18 ricardo Sleep time. Take care everyone! :) 01:34 rhcl_home ping wizzyrea 01:34 rhcl_home @seen wizzyrea 01:34 munin rhcl_home: wizzyrea was last seen in #koha 4 hours, 2 minutes, and 58 seconds ago: <wizzyrea> tomorrow :P 01:46 rhcl_home @seen kyle 01:46 munin rhcl_home: kyle was last seen in #koha 4 weeks, 4 days, 5 hours, 39 minutes, and 38 seconds ago: <kyle> A late thought, instead of having a version number battle, why not move to a date based versioning system like Ubuntu? Koha 9.12? 03:21 brendan @wunder 93117 03:21 munin brendan: The current temperature in Northwest Goleta, Goleta, California is 10.9�C (7:19 PM PST on January 04, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 61%. Dew Point: 4.0�C. Pressure: 30.03 in 1016.8 hPa (Steady). 03:32 Amit hi brendan, chris 03:32 brendan Hi Amit 03:34 chris @wunder wellington, nz 03:34 munin chris: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 20.0�C (4:00 PM NZDT on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 43%. Dew Point: 7.0�C. Pressure: 30.04 in 1017 hPa (Falling). 03:35 chris gotcha brendan :) 03:35 brendan blew me outta the water 03:38 liz-nekls @wunder 66057 03:38 munin liz-nekls: Error: No such location could be found. 03:38 liz-nekls @wunder 66047 03:38 munin liz-nekls: The current temperature in Lawrence Live-Courtesy of the Khoury's, Lawrence, Kansas is -14.7�C (9:36 PM CST on January 04, 2010). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 79%. Dew Point: -18.0�C. Windchill: -15.0�C. Pressure: 30.50 in 1032.7 hPa (Falling). 03:39 liz-nekls typing fail 03:39 liz-nekls yesss 03:39 brendan wow that's too cold 03:39 liz-nekls it's effing freezing here 03:39 chris when it gets past -10, its just mental 03:39 liz-nekls seriously, it's freeze your fat off cold 03:39 chris @wunder scott base, antartica 03:39 munin chris: Error: No such location could be found. 03:39 chris @wunder macmurdo, antartica 03:39 munin chris: Error: No such location could be found. 03:39 liz-nekls @wunder scott base, antarctica 03:40 munin liz-nekls: Error: No such location could be found. 03:40 chilts @wunder antarctica 03:40 chris @wunder mcmurdo sound, antartica 03:40 munin chilts: Error: No such location could be found. 03:40 munin chris: The current temperature in McMurdo, Antarctica is -1.0�C (4:00 PM NZDT on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Light Snow. Humidity: 62%. Dew Point: -6.0�C. Pressure: 29.65 in 1004 hPa (Falling). 03:40 liz-nekls @wunder south pole, antarcctica 03:40 munin liz-nekls: Error: No such location could be found. 03:40 chris got it 03:40 chilts nice :) 03:40 chris you are colder than antartica 03:40 liz-nekls ah there you go 03:40 liz-nekls oh jesus 03:40 * liz-nekls faints 03:40 chilts lol 03:40 chilts hope you're ok :) 03:40 liz-nekls lol yea 03:41 liz-nekls though I guess it's summer down there 03:41 chilts heh lol even more :) 03:41 chilts summer started this morning I think, so yeah, you're just right :) 03:41 chilts been terrible 03:41 chilts on that note, time for me to brave windy Wellington 03:41 * chilts & 03:42 liz-nekls "down there" meaning both NZ and antarctica 03:42 chris is it hometime already? 03:42 chris feels like i just got here 03:50 Amit @wunder Bangalore india 03:50 munin Amit: The current temperature in Bangalore, India is 18.0�C (8:30 AM IST on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Haze. Humidity: 81%. Dew Point: 16.0�C. 03:50 brendan @wunder north pole, alaska 03:50 munin brendan: The current temperature in Speedway, North Pole, Alaska is -26.7�C (6:46 PM AKST on January 04, 2010). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: -999%. Dew Point: -67.0�C. Windchill: -27.0�C. Pressure: 30.03 in 1016.8 hPa (Steady). 03:51 brendan gotta beat liz-nekls 03:51 Amit @wunder Dehradun, India 03:51 munin Amit: The current temperature in Dehradun, India is 8.0�C (8:30 AM IST on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Heavy Fog. Humidity: 95%. Dew Point: 8.0�C. Pressure: 29.92 in 1013 hPa. 03:51 brendan sorry gotcha beat there 03:51 liz-nekls oh snap 03:51 liz-nekls yea, it's winter in the arctic lol 03:51 Amit @wunder New Delhi 03:51 munin Amit: The current temperature in New Delhi, India is 10.0�C (9:00 AM IST on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Fog. Humidity: 94%. Dew Point: 9.0�C. Windchill: 8.0�C. Pressure: 29.98 in 1015 hPa (Rising). 04:46 liz-nekls this is kind of a silly non-koha question 04:47 liz-nekls say I have a file, 9 lines, and I want to get 8 of those lines and append some more text in a bash script 04:47 liz-nekls the appending I think I get but how to get the first 8 lines 05:05 liz-nekls never mind mind! I got it :D 05:42 schuster asking again - hope someone is here - what command to use to pull the 3.2 release for alpha testing. 06:53 Ropuch Morning #koha 06:59 chris moring europe 07:00 Ropuch Morning chris 07:02 chris i saw an email from you the other day ropuch, all talking about someone wanting to make a new library system? google translate did an ok job, I think you answered them well :-) 07:06 Ropuch Oh 07:06 Ropuch On polish forum? ;> 07:06 chris yes 07:06 chris my saved search found it 07:09 Ropuch I hoped that some of 'let's start yet another ils-wannabe piece of software' people will get interested in Koha (and lend me hand with translation), but thre's no response till now 07:10 chris there is always the temptation for people want to start again 07:10 chris its usually how you spot a developer new to free software :-) 07:11 chris the ones who have been around a while would much rather find an existing piece of software to work on :) 07:11 chris we certainly would have built on an existing one if one existed when Koha started 07:13 Ropuch Well, fresh ideas are good, but most people are not aware that full featured, MARC compliant ILS is quite complex software 07:13 liz-nekls lordy that's the understatement of the century lol 07:14 Ropuch when I was speaking about koha on Open Solaris conf, I talked to some no-library relted IT guys 07:14 liz-nekls "it's just a database, right?" 07:14 liz-nekls ^.^ 07:14 Ropuch "C'mmon, what is this all about, library software, 4 tables and here we go" 07:15 liz-nekls how about 30 libraries with individual rules and 1k interlibrary loans a day? 07:15 liz-nekls all in one database 07:15 liz-nekls silly guys. 07:15 Ropuch It's not me who you want to convince 07:15 Ropuch :) 07:16 chris like i said at kohacon in texas 07:17 chris its just a database ... with insane rules 07:18 chris its the business logic that makes it hard, not the db structure :-) 07:20 chris its the exceptions to the exceptions of the exceptions 07:20 chris and now i must go do the dishes :) 07:21 Ropuch I don't really know how are the things going in other countries, but in Poland being librarian is almost equal to some mental illnes: payments are the lowest, there's no respect associated with the job (librarian? laZy fat ass who could not get a normal job, just sitting here, drinking coffee all day) 07:21 Ropuch Or "you neeed to graduate to be librarian? And what are you doijng during study - meomorizng location of the books?" 07:22 liz-nekls oh, yea, there's a conception in the states that all librarians do is sit in the library and read books 07:24 magnusenger not too different from norway, then... 07:27 liz-nekls it may be fairly universal :D 07:27 Ropuch What a relief ;> 07:29 Ropuch liz-nekls: we're supposed to have exams on drinking coffe and saying "Shh, quiet" techniques 07:30 liz-nekls ooh, I aced shushing 07:30 liz-nekls j/k lol 07:30 Ropuch hehe 07:30 liz-nekls I have a killer "mom look" 07:30 liz-nekls the "if you do that again you'll never have cookies again" look 07:31 Ropuch Damn 07:31 * Ropuch pass the master shushing bel to liz-nekls 07:32 liz-nekls confession: I don't have a library degree -- mostly because I didn't/don't feel they would teach me what I want to know. At least not the schools near me. 07:33 * liz-nekls conjures her best Gandalf and shouts "SILENCE!" 07:33 Ropuch Well, I don't regret becoming librarian, but honestly our librarianship and information scienece studies focus too much on history 07:35 Ropuch I remeber having an argue in last month with some "Big Librarian Fishes" about using IM and microbloging in libraries 07:37 liz-nekls oh man, you might be interested in this: http://www.23thingskansas.org 07:37 Ropuch Instead of making and twitter account and just tweet, they would rather make a "From incunabule to tweeter" conference ;> 07:37 liz-nekls training for librarians re: social technologies 07:40 Ropuch I've ordered "Social software in libraries" - will post a rewiev whet it comes 07:40 liz-nekls I think NEKLS owns that book... 07:41 Ropuch Problem is: in smaller libraries there's often people without proper education (resources and will) to make library a place where people like to be, in university libraries there is "they come to us anyway" thinking 07:42 liz-nekls yea, we struggle with that here as well 07:43 liz-nekls but we have really awesome librarians in our state, i think. For the most part they really "get" that the library in a small town is really a gathering place for the community 08:39 CGI308 hello, anyone? 08:43 CGI308 i have a query, i install a fresyh koha server then i want to transfer the old database of our previous koha, what file im going to copy from the old koha server? im using the koha for windows 08:43 Ropuch You need to dump your database into file 08:45 CGI308 how? technically im a moron with this thing 08:46 paul_p chris: about ? 08:48 Ropuch CGI308: hym, it would be easier if you had Koha installed on linux, if it's windows I can only guess 08:48 Ropuch Ypu should have some mysql database installed on your win box 09:06 slef is there a meeting about now, or am I confused? 09:07 Colin 19:00 Chris has sent out a correction email 09:07 slef not opened that mailbox yet 09:07 slef thanks 09:07 Colin I got here before I did too 09:08 slef I was delayed by pouring coffee over a neighbouring office 09:09 slef oh well, I'll go do other stuff for a while :-) 09:15 Kivutar why is C4 named C4? 09:20 magnusenger something about HLTs old system being called C2, so someone thought naming the new system C4 would make it twice as good, i think? i may be remembering this wrong... 09:22 magnusenger ah, here it is: http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=faq#behind_the_scenesmodules_config_and_so_on 09:23 magnusenger hm, the bit about translations further down on that page seems somewhat out of date... 09:26 * magnusenger added a link to http://translate.koha.org/ - better than nothing... 09:34 chris back now 09:35 paul_p hi chris. did you see marc roberson has a new position ? 09:36 chris Kivutar: magnusenger is mostly right, C4 was a working name, C4 being twice as good ... or it will explode (c4 being the name of a explosive) 09:36 chris paul_p: yes i did 09:42 Kivutar :) 12:56 nengard morning all 12:56 jdavidb Hi, nengard! :) 12:57 nengard trying to decide where to start :) 12:58 jwagner A cup of caffiene might be a good place.... 12:58 * jwagner heads off to get tea 13:05 paul_p morning nengard & jwagner & jdavidb 13:05 jwagner Bonjour paul_p 13:05 jdavidb morning, paul_p! :)\ 13:05 paul_p jdavidb (& others) : did you see that Marc Roberson has left LL ? 13:06 jdavidb I did see that, Paul. 13:06 gmcharlt good morning 13:06 gmcharlt not many left 13:06 paul_p good morning gmcharlt 13:06 paul_p gmcharlt: ??? 13:07 gmcharlt at LL, I mean 13:07 nengard Congrats to Marc!! 13:07 jdavidb [off] There are more members of the LL Exes Association than there are LLers. Not good, for a company so young, I would think. 13:08 nengard [off] jdavidb unfortunatly LL isn't telling customers that - I had a new customer of ours (bywater) tell me that LL said they had 29 employees 13:08 paul_p jdavidb: true. not that good for their customers, for sure. 13:08 slef [off] software.coop has not grown as fast, but we have no exes yet. 13:09 slef we also have no employees, but we're a partnership, so that's OK 13:10 nengard :) 13:15 nengard if you're on LinkedIn - I added KohaCon as an event you can mark your interest in: http://events.linkedin.com/KohaCon-2010/pub/195161 13:40 jwagner @wunder 20817 13:40 munin jwagner: The current temperature in Langley Fork Park, McLean, Virginia is -3.2�C (8:38 AM EST on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 63%. Dew Point: -9.0�C. Windchill: -3.0�C. Pressure: 29.92 in 1013.1 hPa (Steady). 14:01 schuster wizzyrea you here? 14:12 paul_p happy new year schuster ! 14:13 schuster Thanks same to you! It's started off with me finally getting an old laptop running debian lenny last night about 11:30 pm Finally! agh. 14:18 owen @wunder 45701 14:18 munin owen: The current temperature in Athens, Ohio is -8.0�C (8:54 AM EST on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Light Snow. Humidity: 79%. Dew Point: -12.0�C. Windchill: -15.0�C. Pressure: 30.09 in 1019 hPa (Steady). 14:19 paul_p Colin: thanks for your cleaning patches ! 14:21 nengard cleaning is a great way to start the new year 14:28 Colin There's plenty of cleaning to do 14:44 brendan @wunder 93117 14:44 munin brendan: The current temperature in Northwest Goleta, Goleta, California is 5.5�C (6:38 AM PST on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 70%. Dew Point: 1.0�C. Windchill: 6.0�C. Pressure: 30.07 in 1018.2 hPa (Rising). 14:47 owen Nice. I wish our windchill was higher than the air temperature! 14:59 liz-nekls @wunder 66047 14:59 munin liz-nekls: The current temperature in Lawrence Live-Courtesy of the Khoury's, Lawrence, Kansas is -13.1�C (8:57 AM CST on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 85%. Dew Point: -15.0�C. Windchill: -13.0�C. Pressure: 30.48 in 1032.1 hPa (Rising). 14:59 liz-nekls how can it be colder here than ohio?! 14:59 liz-nekls that's just not right 15:01 owen liz-nekls: Sorry to break it to you, but at least compared to this part of Ohio Kansas weather is almost always worse. 15:01 liz-nekls *sob* 15:01 jdavidb @wunder 20852 15:01 munin jdavidb: The current temperature in Flower Valley, Rockville, Maryland is -1.6�C (9:53 AM EST on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 56%. Dew Point: -9.0�C. Windchill: -6.0�C. Pressure: 29.63 in 1003.3 hPa (Steady). 15:02 jdavidb Balmy here, by comparison. 15:02 owen liz-nekls: Witness the first snow I experienced here after I moved here in high school: There was an inch or less on the ground and I dutifully trudged to the bus stop only to be told school had been canceled. 15:02 jdavidb jwagner wondered out loud why I wasn't wearing a heavier coat this morning. The answer: because we are not in Kansas. 15:03 liz-nekls owen: hahahaha 15:03 liz-nekls we've got like 8 inches on the ground, it's the most I can remember in a loooong time 15:03 liz-nekls it's not DC snowpocalypse, but it's enough 15:04 owen 8 inches would be a snowpocalypse around here 15:05 jdavidb 8 inches is the Magic Number here, too. (That's the height above ground of the electrified third rail on the Metro. 8" triggers the shutdown of all aboveground segments, which would strand me at home, pretty-much. 15:05 magnusenger @wunder bodo, norway 15:05 munin magnusenger: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is -10.0�C (3:20 PM CET on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 67%. Dew Point: -15.0�C. Windchill: -19.0�C. Pressure: 29.89 in 1012 hPa (Steady). 15:06 owen there you go liz-nekls, you're colder than Norway! 15:06 liz-nekls Ooh, do I win a bad weather prize? 15:06 liz-nekls ok, now i really must get up and get the wee one ready for playtime and get into work. 15:07 owen The bad weather prize is a bronze statuette in the shape of that dirty ice that builds up in back of your tire when you drive in the snow. 15:07 jdavidb Owen! ew! There's a great huge car-sized pile of that stuff in the grass next to my bus stop, still. 15:07 magnusenger hehe - but we've got windchill of -19 15:08 owen magnusenger: True. You'll have to share the prize, like a Nobel prize for bad weather. 15:08 magnusenger cool! (pun intended...) 15:27 moodaepo @wunder 56001 15:27 munin moodaepo: The current temperature in MSU Physics Dept, Mankato, Minnesota is -24.4�C (9:25 AM CST on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 67%. Dew Point: -29.0�C. Windchill: -24.0�C. Pressure: 30.39 in 1029.0 hPa (Steady). 15:45 nengard site set up for koha newsletter - now i just need some articles to include :) 15:45 nengard they can be as short as 2 lines - if you have something to share with the koha world, please email me :) 16:02 hdl_laptop @seen pianohacker 16:02 munin hdl_laptop: pianohacker was last seen in #koha 16 hours, 2 minutes, and 33 seconds ago: <pianohacker> Off to work on college applications, have a great evening, everybody 16:04 rhcl ping wizyrea 16:04 rhcl oops wizzyrea 16:09 rhcl @seen jdavidb 16:09 munin rhcl: jdavidb was last seen in #koha 1 hour, 1 minute, and 21 seconds ago: <jdavidb> Owen! ew! There's a great huge car-sized pile of that stuff in the grass next to my bus stop, still. 16:20 owen Hey liz-nekls, rhcl was lookin' for you 16:20 rhcl liz liz, are you there? 16:22 liz-nekls I saw your message rhcl, i'll have to think about it 16:22 * liz-nekls is in a meetiing :( 16:23 rhcl rog 16:32 nengard thanks to all who have emailed me so far - we're at 6 items in the newsletter!! woo hoo!! 16:34 nengard i think I'm going to set the publication date to the 15th of each month 16:43 paul_p nengard++ 16:44 brendan agreed paul_p 16:44 brendan nengard++ 16:51 jdavidb rhcl: pong? 16:53 rhcl jdavidb: just a sec 16:57 jdavidb okies. 16:58 nengard Colin - re: bug 3945 -- are you saying that it works for you? 17:00 Colin nengard: Works for me and on customer sites 17:00 nengard strange - it's always been an issue for me - and i've installed new dbs - like this one 17:01 nengard anyone have the issue i mentioned in 3945? 17:01 Colin if you select the blank line which supplier is retrieved? 17:09 nengard Colin - nada - nothing - zilch :) 17:10 nengard is it possible that I see that row because I have subscriptions without suppliers? something that should be allowed - the page warns you that you won't be able to claim if you don't enter a vendor - so those subscriptions shouldn't show at all on that page 17:13 Colin Possible.. leave it with me and I'll try and duplicate it (and maybe even fix it!!) 17:15 jdavidb colin++ 17:23 nengard colin++ :) 17:24 Colin nengard: Stage one done.. I now display claims where there's no one to claim to 17:24 nengard ahhh :) 17:24 nengard i love hearing i'm not crazy :) 18:11 * chris is gonna try to catch an early bus 18:12 chris i may be a little late to the meeting 18:12 chris but will try to get to the office before 8am 18:30 * chris_n may be a few minutes late to the meeting 18:44 jransom Morning all. 18:45 jransom Can someplease point me to the agenda for the meeting 18:45 thd http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=en:events:meetings:irc_meetings:meetingnotes10jan05 18:47 thd jransom: meetings have their own namespace so that you can go to en:events:meetings:irc_meetings and find them all 18:48 jransom t. I had a poke around but couldn't find them (must still be in holiday mode :) 18:48 thd jransom: any higher point in the hierarchy such as en:events should have links to what is below 18:50 thd jransom: The simple way may be to find the general link from the main page by searching for meetings within the page at http://wiki.koha.org 18:50 jransom Thd: I have the first draft of rules for Koha foundation here. is it posssible to load them onto this wiki or stick them somewhere else, like the Trust's Kete? 18:51 nengard jransom it should be a new page on the wiki - and/or on the kete 18:51 nengard just so long as we can find a link to it 18:54 thd jransom: a caution from recent experience of nengard. Uploading documents can go wrong where a PDF is not written correctly and then will not open directly in the web browser for many users. Trying again and making a new link to the successful attempt will fix the issue. 18:55 thd ... the original name for the upload apparently cannot be overwritten without the assistance of the site administrator. 18:55 hdl_laptop hi jransom 18:55 jransom alrighty. I have put it on our Kete: http://kete.library.org.nz/documents/0000/0000/0046/Koha_Committee_Rules_Jan10.pdf 18:57 nengard jransom can you add that link to the meeting page 19:00 thd That wording 'intellectual property' gives rise to consternation from Richard Stallman where such 'property' is of a sufficiently different kind that he thinks the common word property is misapplied in referring to it collectively. 19:00 chris back 19:00 jransom done 19:00 chris yeah, i hate the term IP too 19:01 chris i think calling thigns what they are, trademarks, copyright etc is much more honest 19:02 * jdavidb feeds thd's last back through his English language parser again. 19:02 jransom thd: this is absolutely the first cut and I havn't read it thoroughly yet either. Welcome all comments and dicussion. I would prefer them on the Kete site as either added comments or in the body of the wiki article. 19:02 jransom I would appreciate lots of brains and unput to this :) 19:03 chris :) 19:03 thd jransom: just making idle comment about what might actually be the best term to use by legal conventions. 19:03 nengard who's running this meeting? :) 19:04 jransom nominates Nicole 19:04 * jdavidb nominates nengard. 19:04 thd Is it not you nengard? 19:04 nengard LOL 19:04 nengard okay so - i call this meeting to order 19:04 chris yep, first one to ask, runs the meeting, its the rule 19:04 jdavidb That's three. you're drafted. 19:04 slef heh, first person to ask 19:04 nengard and we should all start with introductions 19:04 nengard Nicole C. Engard, ByWater 19:04 slef MJ Ray, member of software.coop 19:04 jdavidb J. David Bavousett, PTFS 19:04 jwagner Jane Wagner, PTFS 19:04 owen Owen Leonard, Nelsonville Public Library 19:04 jransom Joann Ransom. HLT, NZ. 19:04 brendan Brendan Gallagher, ByWater Solutions 19:05 chris Chris Cormack, Catalyst, NZ 19:05 Colin Colin Campbell PTFS Europe 19:05 thd Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City 19:05 rhcl Greg Lawson, Rolling Hills Consolidated Library, St. Joseph, MO 19:05 sekjal Ian Walls, NYU Health Sciences Libraries 19:05 collum Garry Collum, Kenton County Public Library, KY 19:05 chilts Andrew Chilton, Catalyst IT, NZ 19:06 kyle Kyle Hall, Crawford County Federated Library System, Meadville, PA 19:06 wizzyrea Liz Rea NEKLS 19:06 nengard today's agenda can be found online at: http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=en:events:meetings:irc_meetings:meetingnotes10jan05 19:06 nengard who will be taking notes? 19:06 Nate Nate Curulla ByWater Solutions 19:06 hdl_laptop Henri-Damien LAURENT, BibLibre 19:06 magnusenger Magnus Enger, Libriotech, Norway 19:07 schuster David Schuster - Plano ISD 19:07 nengard volunteers to take notes? 19:07 chris its being logged, so its more a volunteer to write it up from the logs 19:08 slef I noticed the last meeting was not noted - maybe it's a good idea not to compile short notes until some dust has settled. 19:08 nengard okey dokey - then our first agenda item 19:08 chris yeah i think write up the minutes from the log after the meeting might be best 19:08 nengard Report on forming HLT Koha foundation committee. (First draft of rules: http://kete.library.org.nz/site/documents/show/46-rules-for-koha-subcommittee-of-hlt) 19:09 jransom Bob has kindly helped us by writing a starting point for the rules of the koha subcommittee of hlt. 19:09 jransom It is a starting point only. 19:09 nengard where should we send suggestions/edits to? 19:10 jransom I would like to take the HLT Trustees a starting point at the end of january 19:10 jransom I think on the Kete either as a comment or else in the body of the entry. its a wiki 19:10 slef What do the yellow bits mean? To be decided? 19:11 jransom unknown 19:11 jransom the whole thing is to bedecided 19:11 Ropuch Heloo everybody 19:11 jransom there are gaps too 19:11 GeorgeSue Happy New Year everyone: 19:11 thd slef: Is there any reason not to have notes for the benefit of those who would not take the time to read the log? 19:12 slef Kete requires registration which is a pain and does HLT want a load of one-comment koha people registering? Can we gather comments on the wiki or a thread? 19:12 nengard jransom, can you give us a link to the kete page? I only have a link to the PDF which I cannot comment on or edit 19:12 jransom Hey George ( Horowhenua Library Trust trustee) 19:12 jransom http://kete.library.org.nz/site/documents/show/46-rules-for-koha-subcommittee-of-hlt 19:12 jransom sorry folks 19:12 chris_n Chris Nighswonger, FBC 19:12 jransom would it better to take commenst on the koha wiki instead 19:12 slef thd: alerting the press and certain others who aren't taking time to participate. That may or may not matter, depending on what is reported to this meeting. 19:12 jransom rather than take it offsite 19:13 slef let me see if I can convert the PDF to a wiki page 19:13 * Ropuch Piotr Wejman, Biblioteka CSNE 19:13 slef yes, that works OK-ish. I'll convert that to a page immediately after this meeting 19:13 slef if that's OK with HLT? 19:14 thd slef: I partly meant to encourage involvement by more interested parties at future meetings. 19:14 jransom absolutely 19:14 chris slef: i think that thats a great idea 19:14 slef ok, I've landed myself more work :-/ ;-) 19:14 thd :) 19:14 nengard should we note what edits we've made? I know that the history keeps track of that - but it may not be easy to see what everyone added/changed/suggested using the history 19:15 slef thd: yes, I appreciate the arguments for noting. 19:15 chris_n nengard: good idea 19:15 slef thd: it's unusual that we have reasons not to note, so I mention it. 19:15 slef nengard: it should not matter who wrote what. 19:15 chris_n slef: unless someone would like clarification on a point 19:15 nengard well i like knowing who to contact for clarification 19:15 slef but this is an argument which has been circulating around the co-op for months, so ho hum. 19:15 nengard chris_n reading my mind 19:15 chris_n :-) 19:16 slef either the clarification can be provided by anyone or the point should be struck 19:16 slef just write FIXME next to it and leave it a while 19:16 jransom timeframes: I would like to get this doc on the next agenda, so he 2nd to last Thursday in Jan 19:16 jransom however we don't have to make that deadline. 19:17 nengard so basically we all need to carve out some time to submit comments/edits/etc in the next couple weeks 19:17 chris thats the next HLT meeting jransom ? 19:17 jransom There is no panic or rush here but steady progress would be good. 19:17 jransom yes 19:17 chris seems like a good point to aim for 19:17 chris_n steady progress++ 19:17 nengard jransom if something gets held up can you submit a draft at that meeting? 19:17 masonj hi everyone 19:17 thd Someone could attach his clear name or initials if they think that they may need to explain further about a comment in the wiki. 19:17 nengard thd works for me 19:18 masonj Mason James, KohaAloha NZ 19:18 thd s/they/his/g 19:18 jransom I could but we do try to get all papers out with the agenda so trustees have time to read and digest before the meeting; makes for better quality deciionmaking :) 19:18 nengard jransom - makes sense! 19:19 GeorgeSue We eill need a short minutes for each meeting for the records. 19:19 nengard okay - so can we all agree to try to take some time to make edits/additions? 19:19 slef +1 19:19 chris yep 19:19 thd ++ 19:19 jransom yes 19:19 schuster + 19:19 chris_n +1 19:19 GeorgeSue yes 19:19 chris id also like to propose a motion of thanks to bob birchall at calyx for the initial draft 19:19 nengard awesome - so we'll try to finish the Weds before the meeting - does that work? 19:19 chris_n seconded 19:19 nengard what date is that? 19:20 schuster draft motion for Bob!+ 19:20 nengard bob++ 19:20 jransom bob++ 19:20 jransom (i don't have a calender handy) 19:20 slef BobCalyx++ 19:20 chris_n Jan 21 ?? 19:20 slef thu 21 jan? 19:20 hdl_laptop +1 19:21 nengard So Weds the 20th - is that enough time? and remember we're talking the 20th in NZ time 19:21 chris thats the 19th for most of youse fullas 19:21 jransom yep. Thats good. 19:21 chris_n looks fine to me 19:21 slef ok to me 19:21 nengard okay - so next item on the agenda 19:21 nengard Report on status of negotiations over assignment of trademarks and domains. 19:21 nengard is Vikki here? 19:22 jransom no. 19:22 schuster No but I am in her place kind of. 19:22 schuster David Schuster 19:22 jransom I have apologies and a statement from her 19:22 jransom from Vicki: I've had conversion with Joshua Ferraro at LibLime and there will be opportunity for continued discussion and negotiation. I ask for a postponement to allow negotiations to continue." 19:23 nengard which kind of brings us to #3 Possible suggestions on unresolved negotiations. 19:23 GeorgeSue Sorry away form 18 to 2nd Feb, My apologies,, may not have coverage 19:23 thd We should be sure to have the NZ time translated to be clear. 19:23 jransom The 16th Jan has been requested as a postponement date 19:23 jransom David: anthing to add? 19:23 thd Which negotiations are unresolved? 19:24 nengard those to get the koha domain and trademarks transferred to HLT 19:24 schuster No you are right on. FYI that is also the American Library Association Conference. 19:24 thd or are we referring to LibLime still? 19:24 jransom as Nicole said. 19:25 jdavidb vicki++ , for having those conversations with Josh. 19:25 chris i think if negotiations are still continuing, it is in our best interest to let them continue a bit more 19:25 nengard okay - so does anyone want to say anything about postponing until ALA Midwinter - aka 16th of Jan 19:25 jransom (stunned silence) 19:25 wizzyrea I am for it 19:25 chris_n I agree w/chris 19:25 jransom me to 19:25 owen +1 19:25 thd there is an issue in parallel 19:25 Nate +1 19:25 masonj +1 19:25 Ropuch +1 19:25 thd ++ 19:25 slef I do not support it, but will not oppose. 19:25 sekjal +1 19:25 GeorgeSue me too 19:26 nengard I'm with slef - i'll go with the majority 19:26 thd I would like to introduce the parallel issue 19:26 nengard k 19:26 schuster + 19:26 nengard thd what issue? 19:26 * chris_n thinks it best to let LL slam the door 19:26 jransom renaming, rebranding and relaunch with 3.2 19:26 thd As part of my communication with the Software Freedom Law Center ... 19:27 thd in the context of relicensing the wiki content the US trademark came up 19:27 thd they are interested in researching the possibility of having the US trademark nullified 19:27 jransom :) 19:28 chris_n nice 19:28 nengard thd and what would that entail? 19:28 schuster Interesting... 19:28 rhcl ? details? we're all ears 19:28 GeorgeSue What does that mean 19:28 thd they also mentioned a possibility that control of the domain might be challenged independently of trademark control 19:28 slef What does that mean? Would that leave it open to future registration, or make Koha a generic term? 19:28 * chris hopes for the latter 19:28 chris cos thats how it is in NZ already 19:29 thd I wanted community approval and participation to help them with their research 19:29 jransom Oh I'll vote a big yes 19:29 nengard thd - what does that require from us? how do we help exactly? 19:29 * chris_n too 19:29 nengard i am by the way on board as well - just want to be clear on where we go next 19:29 chris_n it can certainly provide greater leverage on all fronts 19:29 jdavidb I would support that. It won't hurt a thing to find out the how-and-what-it-means. 19:29 thd Well they have no background really and I did not want to act unilaterally 19:30 thd the only background they have is my brief verbal explanation 19:30 nengard thd I have some background research that I did already after the last meeting and can send that to you or to them 19:30 jransom would love to see the word Koha treated internationally as it is in NZ 19:30 jransom (would protect kete as well..) 19:30 thd I have a contact person there with whom I consulted about the wiki 19:31 slef thd: I'd be happy for you to continue exploring this, but would like that you to "the community" in some way before acting on it. 19:31 schuster I would also suggest that maybe their questions be written and posted on listservs/wiki so many people could respond to them with contact information? 19:31 thd They would also of course need any information which anyone could find that might be thought of as legal grounds 19:31 chris id agree with that 19:32 jransom I think Brendan raised an issue once about this 19:32 thd exactly slef, I have been very cautious because I certainly do not want to even be perceived as acting unilaterally 19:32 thd remember though we are only speaking about researching the possibility 19:32 chris_n thd: I have an email which outlines several pertinent points which could be forwarded 19:33 nengard my suggestion on this issue is that we research between now and the new deadline - the 16th - and if negotiations go well then we can stop research - and if not we can see what is needed to move forward 19:33 nengard how's that work for you all? 19:33 thd I also think that the issue is too important to leave to one set of lawyers and we should seek alternate advice via EFF for example 19:34 chris_n EFF? 19:34 thd Electronic Frontier Foundation 19:34 hdl_laptop nengard++ 19:34 thd they also have lawyers who volunteer time to free software projects 19:34 schuster Too many lawyers creates too much confusion and who is right.??? 19:35 Nate nicole, i agree with you, but think we should try to have as many ducks in a row as possible before the 16th 19:35 slef The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) is an international non-profit advocacy and legal organization based in the United States with the stated purpose of being dedicated to preserving the right to freedom of speech, such as protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, in the context of today's digital age (see also digital rights)... http://a.vu/w:Electronic_Frontier_Foundation 19:35 thd big projects like Debian SPI consult several sets of lawyers do they not slef? 19:35 slef only one per issue, generally, I think 19:35 chris_n imho, we should work all possible fronts at the same time to provide maximum pressure 19:35 thd ok I stand corrected 19:36 thd SFLC seems enthusiastic and has a legal director who is a patent and trademarks expert 19:36 slef SPI has two sets of lawyers but I think they ask whoever is more available 19:36 nengard might I jump in and remind you all about law librarians :) they too can help :) 19:37 thd We need all the help that we can get on this issue 19:37 chris_n thd++ 19:37 thd Even if the trademark might not be actively used against the community at this moment there is always the uncertainty of the future 19:37 schuster thd - we have some possible positive action with the group you are currently working with so I think it would be good to exhaust that before turning elsewhere, and not to move to far until we know what the outcome of the Jan 16th deadline is. 19:38 nengard schuster research is always worthwhile 19:38 richard hi 19:38 thd I agree that I am corrected schuster 19:38 schuster nengard - agreed - in all maters! 19:38 sekjal having_more_information++ 19:38 nengard we should know what our rights are - and I think we should see what these people have to say 19:38 jransom protetcting the futre ++ 19:39 nengard we can make it clear that we're in negotiations 19:39 schuster future ++ 19:39 thd I have very convenient access even directly to this lawyer although SFLC has been busy recently with busybox lawsuits but I do not want to be the exclusive contact person 19:40 nengard okay - so where are we on this issue? research done in the open while negotiations continue until the 16th of Jan 19:40 chris_n I propose that we authorize thd to continue communications with SFLC on behalf of the koha community 19:40 thd being situated in NYC where SFLC is gives me an advantage 19:40 chris doing_stuff_in_the_open++ 19:40 chris chris_n: +1 19:40 nengard chris_n +1 19:40 nengard chris +1 19:41 thd I would like to coordinate things with at least one other person for what might be necessary 19:41 Ropuch chris_n +1 19:41 jransom thd: if you need anything from HLT just ask 19:41 hdl_laptop chris_n++ chris++ 19:41 sekjal chris_n +1 19:41 rhcl +1 19:41 thd However, I think that information could be passed openly on the mailing list unless there is some fear about some particular bit of information 19:41 schuster thd - it would make sense for HLT to be in the loop on these discussions.. 19:41 jransom thd: Chris C? 19:42 chris dear god no 19:42 jransom lol 19:42 chris im juggling 5 million balls at the moment already 19:42 masonj chris_n +1 19:42 thd nothing should be pursued without consulting HLT 19:42 jransom but youknow stuff from early days og koha 19:42 chris im happy to help out with historical stuff if needed 19:43 chris_n thd: did you have anyone in mind? 19:43 schuster As HLT is going to be the holder - it wouldn't hurt for someone jransom or GeorgeSue? to be involved to understand what the US Lawyers are saying. 19:43 thd Each of us may have some information about historical stuff which we might have heard or discover in the public record of the mailing list etc. if we would look. 19:43 chris but cant offer much more time than that 19:43 jransom Schuster: nods 19:44 thd schuster: I intend for HLT to be consulted on every step and I think that most communication can be forwarded to the mailing list 19:44 jransom sounds excellent - mailing list for evrything wherever possible 19:45 chris yes, i agree 19:45 chris_n +1 19:45 schuster thd - I thought you were asking for another individual to be involved with your direct discussions. 19:45 nengard +1 19:45 hdl_laptop +1 19:45 masonj +1 19:46 chris thd often thinks aloud, it's a process i appreciate 19:46 jransom It should probably be from hLT since we are the parent org fr koha community 19:46 chris_n jransom +1 19:46 jransom but it may not be the most useful 2nd person. 19:46 thd We need to find anything we think might help such as statements that LibLime intended to hold assets in question for the community until a community organisation was ready etc. 19:46 GeorgeSue HLT will help 19:47 chris_n thd: I went through some of that a while back 19:47 schuster If items are found where are we posting/linking/sending for future reference? 19:47 chris_n it may be in an email or the channel log 19:47 GeorgeSue Hlt will help where possible 19:47 thd well GeorgeSue could be a contact person at HLT. 19:48 schuster GeorgeSue ++ if willing 19:49 thd I would actually like a contact person at BibLibre because in addition to anyone else becuase their co-operation could be essential for any actual challenge on at least one possible point. 19:49 nengard okay so the next agenda item I think we can skip since negotiations are not concluded: 'Next issues if negotiations have concluded.' 19:49 GeorgeSue I think Jo should be the the contact person as I will be out of coverage 19:49 hdl_laptop thd: you can count on me. 19:49 jransom me too 19:49 thd thanks hdl_laptop and jransom 19:50 nengard great so hdl_laptop and jransom will work with thd in communicating with the lawyer and we will all share research and info on the mailing list 19:50 jransom yes 19:50 schuster nengard - I don't know about skipping - getting things in place physically is a good idea as well or at least an outline of a plan. 19:50 nengard okay - so then the next agenda item is: Next issues if negotiations have concluded. 19:51 chris well, cant really answer that 19:51 jransom well concluded negotiations can be of 2 sorts: we have the stuff or we don't 19:51 nengard that's what i thought :) 19:51 chris cos negotiations might conclude in 12 different ways 19:51 chris or 23 19:51 chris or 431 19:51 nengard hehe 19:51 chris_n lol 19:51 nengard okay so i repeat okay so the next agenda item I think we can skip since negotiations are not concluded: 'Next issues if negotiations have concluded.' 19:52 jransom We are still posiitioning us incase we have to relaunch aye... 19:52 nengard which brings us to the final agenda item of coming up with a next meeting 19:52 jransom like grabbing wiki and bugzilla copies? 19:52 thd One of the next issues is if the answer from LibLime is complete silence do we put up openkoha.org or some such which is where researching the trademark may become immediately important not that the presence of the trademark should stop us 19:52 chris i think if silence is the result 19:52 chris we need to break the silence 19:52 chris and by we, i mean libraries 19:52 slef openkoha is still a awful name 19:53 chris_n libraries-break-silence++ 19:53 nengard libraries-break-silence++++ 19:53 * chris_n thinks they should in any case 19:53 chris as you all know by now, im sick of being attacked when i point out things 19:53 nengard but then again i said that already openly and was shot down by libraries 19:53 jransom We must be seen to be actively taking positive steps to reclaim Koha for the community. I like open koha :) 19:53 thd slef: It is not my favourite either but please win favour for a beter one 19:53 slef thd: let's cross that bridge if we need to. 19:53 chris and im not prepared to do it anymore 19:53 nengard :( 19:53 masonj i like 'openkoha' too 19:53 chris if the libraries are not willing to back us up 19:54 thd not prepared to do what chris? 19:54 nengard argue for librarians 19:54 nengard he wants them to stand up for themselves 19:54 slef well, one of our libraries has asked me to report what happens here 19:54 chris what she said 19:54 jransom I think a Liblime client problem has become a Koha community problem. 19:55 nengard are we getting off topic - should we come up with a next meeting and then close this meeting? 19:55 chris i think perhaps so 19:55 jransom and LL need to be honest about problems and take steps to resolve them. 19:55 schuster LibLime clients are trying to be legally correct in dealing with our vendor. Working in the background until Jan 16th. 19:55 nengard okay - so do we do the first Tues of Feb at this time 19:55 schuster Yes please. 19:55 * chris just had to put that out there, it was making me deeply unhappy and ive resolved not to let it anymore 19:55 chris_n feb 2+ 19:56 chris_n + 19:56 schuster chris ++ 19:56 jdavidb chris++ #for all sorts of reasons. 19:56 nengard okay so the next meeting is Tuesday, 2 February 2010 at 19:00 UTC+0 19:56 GeorgeSue My apology 19:56 nengard I hearby close this meeting - let the ranting begin 19:56 nengard or continue or whatever :) 19:56 jransom ok. Thanks Nicole. 19:56 jransom thanks everyone. 19:56 thd I think that jransom raises an important point that, if I interpret correctly, it is unrealistic to expect customers to overtly risk damaging their relationship with a company while they have an ongoing contract with the company. 19:56 chris thanks nengard 19:56 hdl_laptop thanks nengard 19:56 nengard no prob all :) 19:57 schuster But... Deadlines are Jan 16th and 20th so we'll sit on things until Feb 2nd - ?? 19:57 jdavidb Good job, nengard. nice and quick. 19:57 Ropuch :) 19:57 jransom good point 19:57 chris schuster: we can always call a special meeting if somethign happens such that one is needed 19:57 nengard schuster - the info after the 16th can be shared on list and then what chris said 19:57 Nate thd: isn't that a bit backwards 19:58 chris Nate++ 19:58 masonj nate++ lol 19:58 nengard Nate++ 19:58 thd Nate: Is what backwards? 19:58 Nate I thought the customer made their vendor fear for damaging a relationship 19:58 chris_n if expressing dissatisfaction with QOS puts relations at a risk, then the relationship was already sour 19:58 sekjal Nate++ 19:58 thd Nate++ 19:58 thd yes 19:59 thd at least as it should be Nate 19:59 schuster OK thanks for the meeting Nicole - Feb 2nd! Looking forward to good news between now and then. Have a great day everyone off to another meeting! This one F2F! 19:59 chris_n and "being legally correct" does not exclude the right to express dissatisfaction imho 19:59 Nate Well, it is with some companies :) 19:59 nengard chris_n i think you're required to express disatisfaction - otherwise how does the company know they need to fix something? 20:00 nengard and how do others know what to expect from the company? 20:00 chris_n nengard: exactly ;-) 20:00 Nate AMEN! 20:00 thd for the immediate record my contact person at SFLC 20:00 thd Aaron Williamson 20:00 slef LMSes are mission-critical, so librarians seem to be a bit scared of upsetting them. 20:00 thd Counsel 20:00 thd Software Freedom Law Center 20:00 thd 1995 Broadway, 17th Fl. 20:00 thd New York, NY 10023 20:00 thd (212) 461-1911 direct 20:00 thd (212) 580-0898 fax 20:00 thd www.softwarefreedom.org 20:00 nengard slef - but the thing with Koha is - if you upset the vendor you still get to use/keep the software 20:00 slef Given the postponement, I don't think there's any harm in noting this meeting. 20:01 slef nengard: not LLEK... 20:01 nengard but the libraries who are upset don't want LLEK - they have Koha and want to keep Koha 20:01 nengard and they're not speaking up 20:01 thd at least he has been the contact person about the wiki and volunteered to research the trademark issue 20:01 masonj thd: thanks for your effort with SFLC, too 20:01 slef yeah, that's a bit odd 20:01 nengard they're sending me emails out of the public eye and nagging chris to do something 20:01 slef thd: where in the namespace should the draft rules go? 20:02 slef en:organisations:koha_project_organisation:hlt:rules ? 20:04 slef nengard: write a really good canned reply saying you'd love to help, but you cannot be the lone gunmen any more. 20:04 slef The Lone Gunmen are a trio of fictional characters, Richard "Ringo" Langly, Melvin Frohike and John Fitzgerald Byers, who had recurring roles on The X-Files and also starred in a short-lived spin-off, also called The Lone Gunmen. The name was derived from the lone gunman theory of the John F. Kennedy assassination. http://a.vu/w:The_Lone_Gunmen 20:04 nengard I wrote it publically :) don't want to be a hypocrite and ask others to be public when I wouldn't :) 20:05 slef sure, I saw that - be ready to email the link out lots too ;-) 20:05 slef I think I commented... quite often, you can post to blogs which I can't/won't because they discriminate against users with disabilities 20:06 slef posting at the namespace location I said 20:08 thd slef: I am not the arbitrator of namespace rules :) 20:08 thd slef: just create one if you do not find one suitable 20:08 thd However I can help 20:09 thd I spent all of a weekend putting some things in namespaces when I could not find discussions about the foundation in one place 20:09 thd they were not in fact linked in the wiki only in email messages 20:09 slef http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=en:organisations:koha_project_organisation:hlt:rules posted 20:10 thd I was so exhausted by my effort from that weekend that I neglected to note what I had done for the mailing list. 20:11 thd The real problem was that I had trouble initially using the correct syntax for namespaces 20:11 slef yeah, it's quite unlike any other wiki I've seen 20:11 thd I kept getting pages when trying to create namespaces 20:12 thd Hence, my effort to describe how to do it so that it actually works 20:12 slef damn... when I was editing the rules for wiki markup, I remember seeing something and thinking "that looks odd" but now I can't remember what ;-) 20:14 thd I was merely reconstituting something from KohaCon 2006 DevWeek which was apparently lost when peirrick left the community in consequence of INNEO leaving 20:16 slef fond it in section 6 20:16 slef found, even 20:16 slef and another in section 5 20:17 chris_n what TZ is the wiki in? 20:18 slef probably Ohio USA 20:18 slef no, -0800 AFAICT 20:19 chris its on ec2 somewhere i think 20:19 slef It's at Spry Hosting, Seattle 20:19 chris ahh that'd be right 20:20 slef you know more than my traceroute ;-) 20:20 chris :) 20:20 slef Does it lock more nicely if you edit sections not the whole thing? 20:21 slef I'll come back and play again after dinner, probably 20:21 chris sweet thanks for doing that slef 20:21 thd slef: yes, sections are good for avoiding locking conflicts 20:21 chris i wonder thd do you want to email the list about the SFLC ? 20:21 slef fbcit has it locked I think 20:23 thd chris: I could do that immediately but I was wondering if I should wait for some answer from SFLC about they type of information which they would find helpful in case I might miss something in my first announcement which will get the most attention 20:23 chris not sure, i think it might be good for the community to know that legal advice is being sought 20:24 thd I agree completely 20:24 thd I just do not want to miss the participation of someone who would ignore everything after the first post 20:25 chris_n slef: unlocked now... sorry 20:26 thd I will try to obtain an immediate answer about what might be helpful and then post what I can think of with a stay tuned message. 20:26 chris_n slef: did you see my post about the patron card tool? 20:32 wizzyrea EC2 is either in US Eastern or US Pacific 20:33 wizzyrea (I learned that this week, aren't you glad) 20:34 * chris_n feels very enlightened on learning that bit of knowledge ;-) 20:35 chris :) 20:35 chris wizzyrea: you should do a blog post about mpm-tik 20:35 chris it would be useful for koha too 20:36 chris specially for anyone running more than one koha instance on the same machine 20:36 chris that way you can tighten the privileges on koha-conf.xml right up 20:36 wizzyrea ooh 20:36 * wizzyrea puts that on her to do list 20:36 owen mpm-tik? 20:37 wizzyrea seriously, mpm-tik = WIN 20:37 chris apache2-mpm-tik ... ill let wizzyrea explain :) 20:37 nengard k time for me to log off - i'll probably be back - as you all know i can't stay away :) hehe 20:37 wizzyrea ooh, I don't really have time to explain right now owen, but ask me later, okies? 20:38 * owen will 20:40 collum cool! http://mpm-itk.sesse.net/ 20:43 wizzyrea collum: I KNO!!! 20:44 wizzyrea it's so great. 20:44 wizzyrea so. So. Great. 20:46 davi slef, I was late in the meeting because I did not know about it. Reading the log now. 21:12 chris_n bbl 21:14 collum @wunder 41017 21:14 munin collum: The current temperature in Taylor Mill, Taylor Mill, Kentucky is -6.1�C (4:10 PM EST on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Light Snow. Humidity: 83%. Dew Point: -8.0�C. Windchill: -6.0�C. Pressure: 28.84 in 976.5 hPa (Rising). Winter Storm Watch in effect from Thursday morning through Thursday evening... 21:15 collum snow 21:20 davi openkoha is a bad name 21:20 davi very bad I would say. 21:21 wizzyrea @wunder 66047 21:21 munin wizzyrea: The current temperature in Lawrence Live-Courtesy of the Khoury's, Lawrence, Kansas is -6.3�C (3:19 PM CST on January 05, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 68%. Dew Point: -11.0�C. Windchill: -6.0�C. Pressure: 30.39 in 1029.0 hPa (Falling). 21:22 davi At the right time I will propose a better name 21:22 davi 'open' is a very bad prefix. 21:27 rhcl Is OpenOffice bad? OpenBSD? Open Sesame? OpenSuse? 21:28 pianohacker It is a bit generic, but others have used it 21:32 rhcl Well, I certainly think it's possible to argue that we have too many Open* somethings now, but OpenKoha might indicate clearly that there is a "closed" Koha and an "open" Koha in the same sense that there is a closed Office and an Open Office. 21:32 * chilts like Open Koha ... it's implicit of it's meaning 21:32 chilts because of prior art 21:34 Ropuch I like Open Koha too 21:34 rhcl It might be a poor second choice, since Koha should be truly free and open as it was originally designed to be, but the only other name I like is Koala, and nobody besides me seems to like that. 21:35 Ropuch There's Koala Player 21:35 chris i think i have to renounce my nz citizenship if we change the name to an australian animal 21:35 rhcl Well, there's lots of Koala bears too, but Koala ILS has a certain charm. 21:35 Ropuch chris: ;-) 21:36 richard aw mate, they are so cuddly :) 21:36 Ropuch rhcl: I thinkd we should preserve "Koha" part of name 21:36 davi rhcl, Completed the log reading 21:36 rhcl Let's see Koala Koha? 21:36 Ropuch Karmic Koala Koha? 21:36 Ropuch ;> 21:36 davi OpenOffice bad? OpenBSD? Open Sesame? OpenSuse? There are better names 21:37 davi What about LibreLib ? 21:37 rhcl Hey, how about "Lemon Koha" since there is a "Lime Koha"? 21:37 davi OpenSource is weak 21:37 Ropuch It's like mix of LibLime & BibLibre 21:38 davi Free Software add the user freedom value 21:38 davi and LibreLib does not sound bad 21:38 pianohacker A bit awkward to pronounce 21:38 rhcl Just so :) 21:38 davi I will propose LibreLib in the next meeting 21:38 davi LibreLib 21:39 rhcl Note that many people would take to writing LibreLib as "LL" 21:39 pianohacker Also, I am extremely confident that I would hear it said "LeeberLib" 21:39 Ropuch davi: removing Koha from name is giving up 10 years of history and recognition 21:39 davi That can be even a good thing 21:39 chris yeah i will strongly resist removing koha from the name 21:39 davi You are right Ropuch 21:39 pianohacker Koha has, among other things, very obvious pronunciation in a lot of languages 21:39 davi What about LibreKoha 21:40 chris as a maori, im not having some american company removing a maori word from my usage 21:40 davi LibreLib Koha 21:40 chilts Open Koha is way easier 21:40 davi LibreLib (Koha) 21:40 Ropuch pianohacker: it sounds exactly like (he|she) loves in polish 21:40 davi LibreLib Koha 21:41 davi LibreLib (Koha) 21:41 davi LibreLib Koha 21:41 Ropuch Trying to make some asci art? ;> 21:41 davi I do not know. I am confused 21:43 davi What about 21:44 davi LibKoha 21:44 davi ? 21:44 davi or 21:44 davi Lib Koha 21:44 davi or 21:44 davi Koha Lib 21:44 rhcl Tuatara? 21:44 pianohacker not bad. In any case, I have to head off, see y'all 21:49 lee8buttemib_bp I know I missed the IRC meeting can I get the link to the archives chat from someone? 21:52 davi I can send you it. 21:52 davi Can you let me know your email in private? 21:52 lee8buttemib_bp thanks lee8phillips2@gmail.com 21:53 davi processing ... 21:58 davi Sent 21:58 chris http://stats.workbuffer.org/irclog/koha/2010-01-05#i_368182 21:58 davi Who you work for lee8buttemib_bp ? 21:58 lee8buttemib_bp many thanks 21:59 chris its all publicly logged 21:59 lee8buttemib_bp Butte Public Library 21:59 davi ack 21:59 lee8buttemib_bp hi Chris 21:59 lee8buttemib_bp long time no chat 22:00 thd hdl_laptop: I just had a conversation with the lawyer from SFLC who indicates that a message on the mailing list about researching the trademark / domain issue would be likely to be construed as antagonistic and harmful to the possibility of an easy painless resolution of the issue. 22:02 thd If anyone thinks that it would be a mistake to take that legal advice against an announcement about legal research at this point on the mailing list please let me know. 22:03 chris ill defer to the lawyers on that 22:03 thd jransom: do you see my two messages above? 22:03 chris course, this is all publicly logged anyway 22:03 thd chris: I explained that to the lawyer. 22:03 Nate goodnight #Koha 22:04 thd chris: There is an issue of degree of forwardness and the interpretation of hostility despite the best possible research only explanation. 22:04 chris fair enough 22:05 thd jransom: are you there? 22:10 slef chris_n: not yet (post about patron card tool) 22:18 slef thd: I have no problem with not posting this yet. The reasons seem similar to why I thought we might not want to compile notes of the meeting yet. 22:19 thd slef: yes I had imagined that had been your reasoning about the notes but it was not perfectly clear to me. 22:20 slef well, that and not tipping them off cheaply 22:20 chris anything you guys dont want in the public log 22:20 chris prefix with [off] 22:20 chris otherwise it all ends up there 22:21 chris just fyi 22:21 slef in line with http://mjr.towers.org.uk/writing/fightingshadows#Information 22:21 chris_n2 [off] /me wonders if logbot needs to take a break during meetings like this 22:21 thd chris does off allow everyone logged in to see it but avoid logging? 22:21 chris_n2 yes 22:21 chris yes 22:22 slef chris: I didn't realise that. Something earlier today makes more sense now. 22:22 chris_n2 thd: see http://stats.workbuffer.org/irclog/koha/2010-01-05#i_368756 22:22 slef I'm not particularly bothered to hide the TM questions, but I don't see any reason to actively publicise them just now. 22:22 chris_n2 where my comment with [off] does not appear 22:22 slef biab 22:24 thd |off| chris_n2: I think that we should be as public as we reasonably can and I would only favour using off for a meeting if there would be a direct and immediate threat to the community where we could not respond properly in the open 22:24 slef thd: square brackets [] not bars || 22:26 chris_n2 [off] I agree, but we need to inform meeting participants of the [off] usage for sensitive discussions 22:26 thd [off] chris_n2: even in the worst case I think that a log should be kept which could be available to those interested with appropriate promises about not publicising it. 22:27 chris_n2 [off] perhaps a second logbot logging to an access controlled log... transparency is the number one rule, but at times it could be the undoing of itself 22:28 thd [off] There should be no real secret here it is merely an issue of perception about the level of publicity and an adverse reaction to that which interferes with a friendly request. 22:30 chris_n2 [off] in that case, I'd say that the channel log is about as non-advertised a publicly available record as you could ask for and so no need to keep those things [off] record 22:33 thd [off] The knowledge that [off] is ever used probably provokes an interest as much as it may suppress the ease of obtaining the information. As slef stated, the interest would not be pursued cheaply. 22:37 chris off is more use when doing things like email addresses 22:37 chris or phone numbers 22:37 chris that you dont want in the log 22:37 chris imho 22:43 brendan I feel like I'm reading the movie airplane 22:43 chris_n2 lol 22:43 brendan [over] 22:45 chris hehe 22:49 slef http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=en:events:meetings:irc_meetings:meetingnotes10feb02 created 22:50 chris thanks slef 22:50 slef I'll read back the logs later and see if the agenda should change, but please beat me to it.