IRC log for #koha, 2009-11-18

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:00 imp *wait*
00:00 imp \o/
00:01 imp it's still slow like a slug :/
00:01 imp but it's working :)
00:01 imp thanks pianohacker :)
00:08 pianohackr|work np :)
00:09 pianohackr|work You most likely got used to high performance with mod_perl
00:09 pianohackr|work but that is really not well supported
00:09 imp didn't even notice a differnce between both
00:09 imp it was slow before
00:09 pianohackr|work on 3.0.1 ?
00:09 imp yes
00:09 pianohackr|work ah
00:11 imp maybe i'm expecting too much from the machine, dunno
00:13 pianohackr|work Koha can be a bit slow currently
00:13 pianohackr|work Fixing that is one of the priorities for 3.4
00:14 imp just saw 7 seconds cpu time for a perlscript
00:15 pianohackr|work Not entirely out of bounds. What specs on the machine?
00:16 imp 500mz sparc, 256mb ram (might be a little bit small, but no problems so far) ->[…]AC200_shared/spec
00:16 imp s/mz/mhz/
00:17 pianohackr|work Yeah, 7 seconds for some of koha's scripts sounds about right for something of that speed
00:18 imp why does it burn so much cputime? ;)
00:19 pianohackr|work oh, so many reasons. XML config file, lots of uncached database calls, etc etc
00:21 imp db access isn't that much (but only based on a quick look on the process infos)
00:21 pianohackr|work It's more several cumulative wasteful things than one particular culprit
00:21 imp anyway, need to sleep now :/
00:21 pianohackr|work Good night, glad it's working
00:22 imp ^^
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01:05 pianohackr|work hi, brendan, Jo
01:05 brendan Hi doctor
01:06 chris heh
01:06 pianohackr|work committee member is closer, I keep coming up with grand plans and never finishing them
01:07 brendan pianohackr|work - I'll stop calling you doctor sometime soon
01:07 brendan by that time you will be a PH.D though
01:07 pianohackr|work right after I take off my bones outfit
01:07 pianohackr|work heh. Don't know if I want to stay in college that long, but that could change :)
01:09 pianohackr|work chris: I have a partially-implemented design for a new marc_subfields_structure.display column where the editor can say something nice and sane like $subfieldlib->{'display'} | DISPLAY_SUBFIELD_EDITOR
01:09 pianohackr|work Instead of -5 <= hidden < 6
01:09 pianohackr|work * ... ->{'display'} & DISPLAY_SUBFIELD_EDITOR, rather
01:33 chris_n2 pianohackr|work: grand plans or grand pianos?
01:33 pianohackr|work I do wish I had a grand piano. You really can tell the difference between a well-made grand and an upright
01:33 pianohackr|work so grand plans :)
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01:56 pianohackr|work bbl, headed home
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02:12 chris_n2 heya brendan
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02:22 Stang Hello
02:22 Stang Is anyone here?
02:23 mason im about stang...
02:23 mason whats up?
02:23 Stang I need some help with a project and I'm going to do my project on Koha so if anyone has any more information on this ILS it would be appreciated, just let me know
02:23 Stang ok
02:24 Stang I'm trying to create a project proposal which would hypothetically use Koha in a library system
02:24 Stang so I have several questions here
02:24 Stang about how long does it take to install koha
02:25 brendan howdy
02:25 mason depends on whos doing it.. ;)
02:25 Stang "Estimation of completion time and costs"
02:25 Stang I know the cost for koha is pretty much free
02:26 mason including OS, hardware, mysql-tuning ?
02:26 Stang because it's open source
02:26 Stang and costs may come down to installation or maintenance
02:26 Stang i just don't know estimated completion time to install this system
02:26 mason apache tuning, etc...
02:26 Stang so operating systems and hardware would also qualify as cost?
02:26 Stang ok
02:27 mason 10 -20  hours , would be a good ball-park number, i think..
02:28 Stang left #koha
02:28 mason your question are probably best answered if you send it the 'koha' and 'koha-devel' mailing-lists
02:28 Stang joined #koha
02:28 Stang if I have any more questions about Koha I will let you all know
02:29 Stang thx all
02:29 mason np, try the mailing-lists first
02:29 mason you'll get a better cross-section of results
02:30 Stang ok
02:32 mason "so operating systems and hardware would also qualify as cost?"
02:32 mason if youve got to pay someone to set those up , then yes ;)
02:33 mason theres a reasonable amount of OS-level prep before the koha install proper
02:34 mason deb packages, perl/cpan updating, etc...
02:35 Stang k
02:35 Stang is there a site that has more information on the prep of the os before installation
02:40 chris_n2 g'night #koha
02:46 pianohacker good night
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03:01 Stang_ is now known as Stang
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03:21 Amit hi chris, chris_n2, mason
03:21 Amit good morning #koha
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03:42 brendan Heya Amit
03:42 Amit heya brendan
03:43 brendan how are you doing amit
03:43 brendan I saw the note about another library in India going live with koha
03:43 Amit everything is fine here
03:43 Amit yes
03:43 Amit christ university library
03:43 Amit i think biggest academic library in india which we have done
03:43 brendan that's great
03:43 brendan :)
03:44 Amit i think next month delhi public library server is available like z39.50 server first in india
03:45 brendan excellent
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04:39 pianohacker good night
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06:49 Ropuch Good morning #koha
07:12 Amit hi ropuch
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08:17 richard joined #koha
08:18 richard hi
08:23 chris hi richard
08:23 richard hey chris
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08:29 kf good morning #koha
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08:58 Ropuch Guten Tag, kf
09:00 kf guten morgen Ropuch :)
09:25 Amit heya kf
09:26 imp heyho
11:28 kf lunch time :)
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11:59 mahesh hello all
11:59 mahesh i have problem with koha
12:00 mahesh search is not working with opac and Intranet
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12:28 kf mahesh: have you chosen zebra or nozebra during install? zebra requires cronjobs and zebresrv running
12:28 mahesh zebra
12:29 mahesh i did a rebuild_zebra also
12:29 mahesh its showing a [warn]
12:29 mahesh 16:24:45-18/11 zebraidx(5988) [warn] Index 'any' not found in attset(s)
12:30 mahesh but still no results
12:34 mahesh but journal search is working
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12:40 kf I think your zebra is not running correctly
12:40 mahesh how can i check it ?
12:40 kf uh, im sorry, I am not sure
12:40 kf perhaps someone else can help out?
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12:41 |Lupin| hi there
12:42 kf hi lupin
12:42 |Lupin| guten nachmitag kf :)
12:43 mahesh how can i disable zebra ?
12:43 kf mahesh: perhaps this thread can help you:[…]g-td22472776.html
12:43 kf its about the same error message
12:43 mahesh ok
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12:46 |Lupin| are the barcodes calculated on the server, or in the client, for new items, please ?
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12:57 hdl |Lupin|: serverside
12:58 hdl mahesh: I think it is owed to dom authorities configuration.
12:58 hdl mahesh: it misses an
12:58 hdl any even
12:59 mahesh how can correct it . i am not familiar with that .
13:00 jwagner I have an indexing question for anyone who understands zebra.  One of my sites wants to set off a particular group of items/titles, and it doesn't quite work to give them normal item type or collection code settings.  I tried to set it up so that the 590a would be indexed in the ccode index, thinking I could then fake a ccode search for a particular code -- e.g., mc-ccode:GRANTCOLL.  I've reindexed etc., but a search for that doesn't find anything.  (A r
13:01 |Lupin| hdl: yeah but it's in the script, I think. And since I replaced it by a home-made one, my barcodes are not computed correctly. Actually I thought the calculation would take place somewhere deeper in Koha...
13:02 hdl jwagner: I can surely help.
13:03 hdl would you mind showing your 590$a line and see if there is any melm 590 line in your record.abs
13:04 jwagner Yes, I added the 590a line -- just a sec while I get logged in to find it.
13:05 mahesh hdl: how can i disable zebra in koha 3 ?
13:06 jwagner hdl, the record.abs line is melm 590$a      ccode -- I copied the 952$8 line.
13:08 jwagner A manual search for a "real" collection code works (e.g., mc-ccode:BOOK), so I'm guessing there's something that's checking any mc-ccode search against the list of policies.
13:16 chris_n |Lupin| it depends on the syspref for auto generating barcodes
13:17 chris_n |Lupin|: there is a code in the script, but also plugins which are eval'd depending on the syspref
13:17 chris_n but both are server side
13:18 chris_n it's rather convoluted and not pretty atm iirc
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13:23 |Lupin| k, till soon everybody
13:23 |Lupin| bye
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13:31 chris_n hi owen
13:31 owen Hi
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14:04 Nate good morning #Koha!
14:06 chris_n howdy Nate, top of the morning to you :-)
14:07 chris_n or whatever time of the day it is at your locale
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14:25 Nate same to you chris_n!
14:56 chris_n arggg....
14:57 * chris_n has somehow lost hours of code in a commit which appears to contain empty files >:-(
14:57 chris_n if that is so, this will not be a good day
15:06 hdl git fsck can help you
15:06 * chris_n definitely needs help atm :-P
15:34 jwagner @quote random
15:34 munin jwagner: Quote #23: "<gmcharlt> /msg munin register nick password" (added by wizzyrea_ at 12:25 PM, August 06, 2009)
15:34 jwagner @quote random
15:34 munin jwagner: Quote #45: "<CGI988> sekjal - you are a genious!!!!! asking me about the browser!!!! yes it's the #$%$#%$#ing IE was messing my cataloguing, oh I hate miscrosoft, the evil!" (added by gmcharlt at 02:00 PM, November 05, 2009)
15:41 jdavidb @quote random
15:41 munin jdavidb: Quote #31: "<@gmcharlt> but hacking Koha *should* be a restful part of any vacation ;)" (added by chris at 07:31 PM, September 02, 2009)
15:43 chris_n lol
15:47 chris_n hdl: any wisdom on how to apply git fsck to my situation?
15:47 chris_n I see a number of dangling blobs
15:47 chris_n and one commit
15:49 hdl git log -p -n1 your commit id
15:52 chris_n well the situation is more hopeless as the commit contains empty files :-(
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16:01 hdl chris_n : are you sure you commited ?
16:03 pastebot "chris_n" at pasted "git log" (14 lines) at
16:03 chris_n hdl: ^^
16:05 hdl the commit is a snapshot of your tree
16:06 hdl mmmm
16:06 hdl maybe digging into objects.
16:06 hdl but then you would need #git assitance
16:06 hdl not mine
16:06 chris_n I tried doing 'git reset --soft HEAD~3' to roll back before the commit
16:07 chris_n but the files still show up blank... and I know I was not dreaming when all of that code worked... ;-)
16:07 chris_n I'll wander over to #git and see what comes up
16:07 chris_n tnx
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16:52 LadyNight32 hola a todos
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16:53 owen Hi LadyNight32
16:53 LadyNight32 hi
16:54 LadyNight32 alguien que hable español?
16:55 LadyNight32 I am from Cuba
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17:39 chris_n hdl: well it appears through some unknown sequence of keystrokes or just dumb blind misfortune, my code is lost
17:40 jdavidb :((
17:40 chris_n I can retrace exactly what I did, but the present state of my repo makes no sense in light of it
17:40 hdl chris_n sorry
17:40 chris_n #git is at a loss as well it appears
17:40 * chris_n reaches for another box of tissues :-(
17:41 hdl mmm... could have been a problem of file permissions for reading.
17:41 chris_n and the changes got pushed to my github repo over night.... so much for backups
17:53 brendan oh man
17:53 brendan doesn't sound too good there chris_n
17:58 chris_n yeah, I think I abused git a little too much on this one and confused it
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18:15 jwagner One of my sites found a brand new holds bug, I think -- see Bug 3792
18:15 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3792 normal, P3, ---,, NEW, Checking out on-hold item to someone else replaces item-level hold with next available
18:15 jwagner Any ideas?
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18:38 chris sure sounds like a bug to me
18:39 chris hdl: i sent a patch to fix the internal server error on with invalid biblionumber, do you want me to cherry-pick and submit for 3.0.x as well
18:39 chris (if you are still awake)
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19:37 richard hi
19:44 chris morning richard
19:44 richard hi chris
19:44 brendan morning richard
19:45 richard hi brendan
19:45 richard and everyone :)
19:45 brendan :)
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20:02 Jo Morning all
20:02 richard hi jo
20:05 * mdhafen needs some help with make.
20:06 mdhafen I have a value with a '$', but it doesn't make it to the koha-conf.xml
20:07 mdhafen I see it at the bottom of Makefile as 'export __VARIABLE__ := $10000' but make renders it as '__VARIABLE__ =000'
20:08 mdhafen is it export, or is it in ?
20:09 chris im guessing in the perl
20:09 mdhafen That's kinda what I'm thinking too.  I'll have to take a closer look at
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20:26 mdhafen nope, looks like it's the export.  I added a warn to rewrite-config.PL.  In the Makefile it's $1000, but when rewrite-config.PL checks $ENV it's 000
20:29 mdhafen I've tried adding single quotes to the Makefile too, that doesn't work either.  It ends up as '000'
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20:29 chris slash?
20:30 chris \$100000
20:30 chris ?
20:30 mdhafen hmm, yeah, I'll try that
20:31 mdhafen apparently not, I got \000
20:32 * mdhafen thinks this is a good time to also consult google ;)
20:33 chris yup :)
20:44 hdl jwagner bug 3792 has a similar bug defined
20:44 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3792 normal, P3, ---,, NEW, Checking out on-hold item to someone else replaces item-level hold with next available
20:44 hdl chris please cherry-pick directly
20:45 chris will do
20:49 chris ahhh 3.0.x doesnt have the problem its ok
20:49 hdl jwagner: see 2830
20:49 hdl should be the same.
20:49 hdl I wanted to fix that for 3.0.4 and then for 3.0.5
20:49 hdl But had no time.
20:50 hdl I could ask nahuel to do it he had some ideas about that and a clear vision of C4/ but might take time as well
20:51 jwagner hdl, I saw 2830, but it seemed to be the reverse -- comment #2 says it's going back into the holds queue as a copy specific instead of next available.  I'm guessing it's probably related, though.
20:56 wizzyrea wait...
20:57 jwagner Not very long 'cause I'm about to hit the road :-)
20:57 wizzyrea I don't think you can specify the behavvior either way
20:57 wizzyrea because we would WANT it to be title level if that happened
20:57 wizzyrea which is probably what 2830 is saying...
20:58 wizzyrea yes, yes it is
20:58 jwagner No, the problem my people are having is that an item-specific hold suddenly becomes a title level hold, which is a problem if they're trying to reserve one particular issue of a journal, for example.
20:58 wizzyrea right, but if you change it
20:59 wizzyrea then that would break the way we use it (or want it to work)
20:59 wizzyrea seewhatimean?
20:59 wizzyrea i'm not saying what your library wants is wrong
20:59 wizzyrea it's totally right, for them
20:59 jwagner no.  Why wouldn't you want to keep an item-level hold as item-level?
21:00 wizzyrea sorry, thinking... we can talk more about it later
21:00 wizzyrea let me think about this
21:01 wizzyrea have a good evening
21:01 chris it should be an option
21:01 wizzyrea :)
21:01 jwagner Yes, let's talk tomorrow.  I've got to brave the Beltway traffic now....
21:01 chris libraries act in retarded ways all the time
21:01 wizzyrea good luck, jwagner
21:01 wizzyrea may the force be with you
21:01 chris but its best to just let them
21:01 chris is my theory
21:02 jwagner But this one makes sense to me -- an item-level hold should STAY an item-level hold.  Same for a title-level hold.
21:02 chris liz is saying they want an item level to change to title level
21:03 wizzyrea if it has been checked out
21:03 wizzyrea to another patron
21:03 chris so you cant fix it for someone and break it for someone else
21:03 chris too much of that happens with koha
21:03 wizzyrea we may be talking about two different things, which is why I'm thinking about it
21:03 * chris looks in the direction of ohio
21:04 wizzyrea in NExpress, we really try to avoid starting out with item level holds
21:04 jwagner Right, but I don't understand why you would want it to change to a title level hold.  Our particular case is journal issues, for example.  If you've put a hold on Vol 32. No 5, you don't want it satisfied by Vol 31. No 2.
21:04 wizzyrea why would you have those on the same bib? (this may be a dumb question)
21:05 wizzyrea (and I am not really sure how we do it)
21:05 jwagner Because it's the same title?
21:05 chris this all worked fine in koha 1
21:05 chris cos you had group level holds
21:05 chris so if you had 2 copies of Vol 32. No 5
21:06 chris you could place a group level reserve, and either of those would satisfy it
21:06 wizzyrea oh those halcyon days
21:06 chris the problem with item level, say you have 28 copies
21:06 chris of the same thing
21:06 jwagner Hmmm.  But a checkin of something outside that group wouldn't fill the hold?
21:06 chris (in a consortia quite possible)
21:06 chris jwagner: thats right
21:07 wizzyrea that would probably be an enhancement to the special holds rules
21:07 wizzyrea (walkin, local hold)
21:07 wizzyrea etc
21:07 jwagner Well, that sounds like a useful feature.  I take it that it bit the dust with later versions?
21:07 wizzyrea so you were looking at both macro and micro title
21:07 chris it died when we started storing marc interntally
21:07 wizzyrea i may have to draw myself a picture
21:07 chris koha used to have a three tier structure, biblio, biblioitem and item
21:08 chris 1 to many, 1 to many
21:08 chris now its 1 to 1, 1 to many
21:08 jwagner (one biblio, one biblioitem, many items?)
21:08 chris thats how it is now
21:08 chris cos marc doesnt understand manifestations of the same work
21:09 chris or similair work
21:09 chris we'll get back there, its a tradeoff, internal marc support, breaking the group model
21:09 wizzyrea i am pretty sure, that in the case of magazines, each month has a bib, and every library adds their copy to that bib
21:09 wizzyrea this may be the wrong method of handling it
21:10 chris now we just have to reimplement groups
21:10 jwagner That would mean that you get gazillions of hits in the hitlist, if you search that title?
21:10 wizzyrea (that's in NExpress)
21:10 chris yes
21:10 wizzyrea yes
21:10 chris so the solution for that
21:10 chris well a solution
21:10 wizzyrea but you could say Time, january
21:10 chris is a meta record
21:10 chris that groups biblio records together
21:10 wizzyrea I will have to do a little looking into how we do that
21:11 chris so you can group all the months together, and the search displays just one row
21:11 chris this doesnt exist in koha yet
21:11 chris but its on my list
21:11 chris personally i hate nothing more than getting 6 rows of the same item
21:11 wizzyrea BUT, I can say that once an item is assigned to a patron, it essentially becomes an item level hold, and if that item is checked out to another patron, we WANT it to go back to being a title level, instead of waiting in the queue for that specific item
21:12 chris *nod*
21:12 jwagner Yes, a de-duping routine of some kind would be nice.
21:12 chris that is the problem right there wizzyrea
21:12 wizzyrea i'm afraid that if you fixed all item level holds to only map back to item level holds, that functionality would break
21:12 jwagner So it sounds like fixing it the way we want really wouldn't work for you, wizzyrea.
21:12 wizzyrea right, that's what I was trying to get across, I think
21:12 chris once a hold is marked waiting, its switched to item-level from title
21:12 chris but if it gets issued, it needs to go back to title
21:13 jwagner I have one of the programmers looking at it now.  Sounds like we could either do it as a local fix, or maybe make it controlled by one of the all-proliferating sysprefs?
21:13 chris consequently, if it started as item at the start, it should stay item
21:13 chris its a trickier problem than it seems
21:13 jwagner Sounds like it :-(
21:13 chris to do it properly, you need to know the state the reserve started in
21:13 chris not how it is now
21:13 chris if that makes sense
21:14 wizzyrea yes yes yes
21:14 jwagner It makes sense.  Does the barcode in the reserves table change if it gets assigned?
21:14 wizzyrea thank you, I knew there was something there that made my gut go EEKS!
21:15 chris in the case of a title level hold, an item now gets assigned
21:15 jwagner I know if you place an item-level hold to begin with, it embeds the barcode.  The hold isn't triggered yet when our problem starts, it's still sitting there as priority 1.  So at that point, if there's a barcode, it should be because it was set that way.
21:15 chris yep, but a barcode gets set once an item is marked waiting
21:15 wizzyrea I think this is a case for a special hold rule
21:15 wizzyrea I really do
21:15 chris so if you just check that, a title level hold that is waiting, looks the same as an item-level
21:15 jwagner So if there's a barcode but the "waiting" flag isn't set yet, keep the hold as an item-level, otherwise make title-level?
21:16 * wizzyrea thinks that would work
21:16 * wizzyrea is still thinking...
21:17 wizzyrea that seems logical to me, insomuch as my puny brain can grasp it
21:17 jwagner chris, do you think that would be enough of a safeguard?
21:17 chris that oughta work
21:18 wizzyrea i like this, actually
21:18 mdhafen what about the constraint column in reserves?  I believe it was used for group reserves, but I don't know what it's for now.  Maybe targetted holds?
21:18 jwagner OK, I think I'll summarize the discussion in the bug report & see if anyone else has any input.  Tomorrow.  I've really gotta hit the road now....
21:18 chris there used to be a field
21:18 wizzyrea bye jwagner, sorry to make you late :)
21:19 chris that had either an a
21:19 chris or an o in it
21:19 chris a = all
21:19 jwagner We'll just hope the traffic give me a break...
21:19 chris o = only the ones specified in constraints
21:19 chris if that is still in use, all you need to check is that column
21:19 mdhafen right.  Maybe that field could be re-purposed to track the original state of the hold?
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21:20 mdhafen I suspect it is still in use, but I'm not certain.  I don't see many item-level holds
21:20 wizzyrea we don't either
21:20 wizzyrea i can say it's relatively annoying that holds become true item level once assigned
21:21 wizzyrea they're hard to work around, those irritating exceptions that make ILS's so hard to write
21:21 mdhafen chris is right, if the field is still in use it would indicate if a reserve was originally item level
21:22 mdhafen I think
21:23 mdhafen the reservecontraints table doesn't have itemnumber though, so maybe that isn't right.
21:23 mdhafen be cool if it did though.
21:23 mdhafen reserve constraints could be expanded to track item-level holds too.
21:23 wizzyrea so I've been thinking more about that weird status deal we looked at yesterday
21:24 wizzyrea it said that the issuingbranch was SIPTERM, even though we don't have an issuing branch of SIPTERM ?!
21:24 wizzyrea we have users named sipterm...
21:25 mdhafen chris:  I found the manual for make.  Looks like anything with a $ is a variable in make, except $$.  I'm going to try that now.
21:27 mdhafen chris: yeah, $$1000 ends up $1000.  Maybe Makefile.PL::_get_value needs to be checking for '$'?
21:28 chris yeah sounds likely
21:30 Nate left #koha
21:31 mdhafen chris: yeah, a simple s/\$/\$\$/g before the return in _get_value should do the trick.  I make a patch for that.
21:34 mdhafen nope, the prev-install-log value is missed that way.  Have to add that to that block too
21:56 mdhafen left #koha
22:19 chris_n2 g'evening
22:28 brendan evening chris_n2
22:28 wizzyrea hi chris
22:28 wizzyrea _n2
22:28 wizzyrea it gets so confusing!
22:28 wizzyrea ;)
22:29 * chris_n2 gets confused by himself on occasion too :-)
22:37 joetho left #koha
23:05 Nate joined #koha
23:09 chris hiya Nate
23:09 Nate hey chris!
23:09 Nate how goes it
23:10 chris not too bad, just finished a big rfi so thats good
23:11 Nate that always feels like a weight off the shoulders!
23:12 chris hell yeah
23:18 Nate ok I just popped on for a sec time to munch some pizza
23:19 Nate ive got a 1 year old comming over so ive got to kiddy-proof the house
23:19 chris_n2 heh... good luck
23:20 Nate thanks
23:20 Nate im gonna need it
23:21 Nate left #koha
23:35 * chris_n2 's virtual box install becomes a virtual disaster :-P

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