IRC log for #koha, 2009-11-10

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:22 pianohacker hallo, brendan
01:12 Steven joined #koha
01:12 Steven anybody there?
01:13 Steven can anyone teach how to add multiple copy under cataloguing using Koha 3.0?
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03:13 Amit hi chris, brendan, chris_n2
03:13 chris_n2 hey Amit
03:33 brendan hey Amit
03:33 brendan good evening all
03:36 pianohacker hi brendan
03:36 brendan evening pianohacker
03:44 chris_n2 ahhh... what a beautiful sight... the koha web installer running on win32
03:44 brendan congrats
03:45 pianohacker very nice
03:45 chris_n2 if one can say anything on win32 is beautiful...
03:45 pianohacker beautiful in the sense of reaching the top of a long hill :)
03:49 * chris_n2 thinks this might be more of the carrot and stick sort of thing
03:49 chris_n2 the web installer borks a bit
03:52 * pianohacker is not a fan of owen's new checkout list on circulation.tmpl
03:53 pianohacker too_many_columns--
03:54 * chris_n2 wonders why in the world the installer tries to access db tables that it should well know do not yet exist
03:54 pianohacker I think that's a C4::Languages oddity
03:54 chris_n2 it fills the log with needless bits
03:55 pianohacker that module's broken anyway
03:55 chris_n2 broken_modules--
03:55 chris yup
03:55 chris C4::Search and C4::Languages are both needlessly complex
03:55 chris on the list for 3.4
03:56 chris_n2 must be the getAllLanguages sub
03:56 chris yeah that thing is foul
03:56 chris thats why i cache the hell out of it
03:56 chris its slow and its called on every single page
03:56 chris_n2 I assume that the getTranslatedLanguages sub looks at a dir structure rather than a db table?
03:57 chris it looks at both
03:58 * chris_n2 rips them both out of his local copy to clear up the log for real errors ;-)
04:01 chris ok, time for me to go catch my bus
04:01 pianohacker cya
04:01 pianohacker good night, all
04:02 pianohacker good luck with win32, chris_n2
04:02 chris_n2 tnx
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04:51 chris_n2 wb si
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04:57 chris_n2 now to tackle the big Z
04:58 * chris_n2 notes that the installer is broken on win32
06:08 chris_n2 very nice... the installer is basically fixed for win32
06:11 chris_n2 g'night
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06:46 Ropuch Morning #koha
06:58 chris hi Ropuch
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07:22 CGI818 hai I am nithin
07:22 CGI818 I need ur help
07:23 CGI818 does koha2.2.9 works with mysql 5
07:24 CGI818 pls help
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07:30 Steven Hi, anybody there?
07:30 Steven I m a librarian for Victoria International College
07:31 Steven I wanna implement Koha 3.0 as my library system, but there r few questions i wanna ask....can anybody help me?
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07:33 ftherese Steven: I just started using koha, but I might be able to answer a question or two
07:33 Steven Koha 3.0 only work in Linux server, as my college is using windows server 2003 initially, can actually linux server work with windows server as a whole?
07:34 Steven I can ask my ICT dept to set up a linux server for me to run Koha, but they r asking me how the linux server work with the intitial windows server 2003
07:35 Steven bcoz they cant afford to change all the server to linux os....
07:35 ftherese koha requires a webserver(Apache2), mysql, and a few other -nux services
07:35 ftherese that is just on ONE linux machine
07:36 ftherese otherwise, the other machines will connect to the library service via http
07:37 ftherese the linux server would function independantly of other server functions
07:37 ftherese it is basically a webserver with mysql database
07:38 ftherese you could run the virtual machine version of koha
07:38 ftherese and in that case there would be nothing to change at the server level, except to open up the ports needed to access the webservices provided by koha
07:38 Ropuch Perl modules are main problem
07:39 Steven bcoz what my ICT dept ppl concern is.....they wanna build a linkage with 2 diff servers (Linux and Windows) so they can backup everything regularly in one shot
07:39 Ropuch I'm sure you can run your db on whatever platform you like
07:39 Ropuch Steven: i can't see a problem here
07:40 ftherese if your ICT dept has any clue about what they are doing there should be no problem running koha
07:40 Steven actually i m not so good in those server stuff
07:40 ftherese c'est pas grave
07:41 ftherese if you just want to test it you can get the virtual machine version and have your IT people check it out too
07:41 ftherese[…]ember/012448.html
07:42 ftherese that link does not work
07:42 Steven but got anyone of u....using Linux server with Koha then the main server is windows server based?
07:42 ftherese that should pose no problem
07:43 ftherese the linux server running koha lives in its own little world
07:43 ftherese and merely provides a few services
07:43 ftherese that relate directly to the functioning of Koha
07:43 Ropuch I'm running koha on virtual box with linux, I don't realy know or care what is OS on main system, that does not concern me
07:44 ftherese[…]irtual-appliance/
07:44 ftherese there is the link for the virtual appliance
07:44 Ropuch Steven: just ask your IT to provide you with virtual server with linux installed, it's really piece of cake for them
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07:54 Steven virtual server is wat actually? sorry for my stupid question
07:55 ftherese steven: I don't know much personally, but it can run a virtual machine from within the windows server
07:55 ftherese[…]em/virtualserver/
07:56 ftherese you can read more about it there
07:56 ftherese or if you'd like to skip microsoft's take on it, you can go directly to the wiki
07:56 ftherese[…]ft_Virtual_Server
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08:03 kf good morning #koha
08:03 chris hi kf
08:04 kf hi chris :)
08:04 * ftherese is becoming familiar with mysql
08:04 Steven thx for ur help ftherese n ropuch
08:05 Steven hope my ICT dept can really work on it....bcoz Koha is a really good ILS which is FOC to everybody
08:05 ftherese no problem steven, I hope that helps... if you have any further questions feel free to come back!
08:05 Steven problem
08:06 Steven so for virtual machine set up....i need to download from the said link u provided?
08:06 * ftherese is chuffed about how quickly and accurately #mysql answers questions
08:06 kf shown in German and without stylesheet :( I dont like language detection.
08:07 chris its detecting your browser?
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08:13 kf chris: its detecting that Im from Germany. dont know how, but its annoying, because German templates are ugly most of the time (stylesheet only in folder en), I saw a patch from nahuel, I hope it gets better.
08:18 chris hmm, i think its most likely detecting your language setting in your browser
08:18 chris the is no code in koha to do geo-ip matching
08:18 chris but there is code to detect language settings from browsers
08:21 chris yep, its doing that
08:21 chris i just set my language to german in firefox
08:21 chris fugly now
08:22 * chris switches it back to english
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08:24 CGI600 hai good afternoon
08:25 CGI600 is koha 2.2.9 work with mysql 5
08:26 CGI600 hello pls help
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08:35 kf chris: where is this setting in firefox?
08:40 chris preferences
08:40 chris then content
08:41 chris (preferences is under edit (in linux anyway))
08:42 chris you can choose quite a few languages, and the order it will try to do
08:42 chris for eg, mine goes en_nz, en_gb, then en_us
08:43 chris CGI600: no 2.2.9 wont work well with mysql 5 .. but 2.2.9 is very old and out of date
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09:05 kf chris: thx!
09:07 kf chris: ok, now its a beautiful koha opac!
09:10 chris :)
09:10 chris im picking that when they ran install-code for german it didnt complete properly
09:15 kf chris: hm, I discussed this with jdavidb - the css-file from system pref is not copied to de-DE I think, its only en
09:16 chris hmm it should be
09:16 chris ahh specialised css?
09:16 kf chris: and German is not activated, but I think this is something Nahuel corrected, I remember a patch about language detection
09:16 chris the templates must exist, otherwise it wouldnt use it
09:17 chris and the css works for en and fr
09:17 kf chris: yes, but I think its not checked in sys pref for languages
09:17 kf hm
09:18 chris yep the checking in syspref only controls what languages you can pick (along the bottom)
09:19 chris but if you have templates available, and the person hasnt picked a language (that is set in a cookie) it will try to use the language the browser is set for
09:20 chris so the way to not have that happen is don't have templates set up for languages you dont want
09:22 chris but why it didnt copy the css file is another question, since it should copy everything from english (images, js, css)
09:25 kf I think its added after template generaton
09:25 kf chris: you generate the templates during install, but add a custom css later
09:26 chris ahh well yeah, that will never work :)
09:26 chris if you do that, you need to copy that css file
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09:30 kf chris: this is the patch from nahuel I was talking about: [Koha-patches] [PATCH] (bug #3754) fix language choose
09:30 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3754 normal, PATCH-Sent, ---,, ASSIGNED, Language detection doesn't take really care of syspref
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09:34 chris yeah im not sure that the language detection should care about the syspref
09:34 chris the syspref is just to control the options you show on the page
09:35 chris and what the default language is
09:35 chris but i could be convinced either way
09:37 chris :)
09:37 hdl chris we have some customers who ask that the default language should be first
09:40 nicomo I think koha is trying to be too clever here
09:40 nicomo we have a mix with syspref, css, templates, browser, and it's a mess, people don't know what to expect
09:40 kf hdl + nicomo: perhaps the option to choose a language should be always displayed when more than one language is selected
09:40 nicomo yep, might be good
09:41 nicomo + in admin selecting a language as "default"
09:41 kf and english opac is better than a old and incomplete translation with missing stylesheets etc.
09:41 nicomo and stop trying to second-guess the user based on his/her browser
09:41 nicomo kf: indeed
09:41 chris nicomo: the easy answer is dont install templates you dont want to offer the user
09:42 chris we could have a syspref to disable the browser check
09:42 nicomo I want to offer the german version to the user
09:42 nicomo not force it upon them
09:43 chris they can change it
09:43 chris by picking the language at the bottom
09:43 nicomo true
09:43 magnusenger apropos: anyone got an idea why our two norwegian languages are displayed as "Norsk" (correct) and nn-NO (not quite what you want users to see) at the bottom of the OPAC?
09:43 nicomo but no language is considered "default", and that's sometimes troubling
09:43 chris its just giving them the language they choose their browser to operate in as first option
09:44 chris yep, i like it
09:44 chris so i would like it to be a syspref
09:44 chris so that for those who dont want browser detection they can turn it off
09:44 nicomo chris: ++
09:44 nicomo but then, what's the "default"?
09:45 nicomo first language/template installed/generated?
09:45 chris if you turn off browser detection, whatever you picked as default is default
09:45 chris you can set the default in syspref now
09:45 nicomo ?
09:45 nicomo I'm confused
09:45 nicomo didnt know that
09:45 nicomo where?
09:46 chris opaclanguages
09:47 magnusenger hm, i'm getting some weirdness there...
09:47 magnusenger i searched for "lang" among the sysprefs
09:48 chris its in the I18N/L10N tab magnusenger
09:48 magnusenger and see that for language three are selected, and for opaclanguage one is selected
09:49 magnusenger sorry: for language one is selected, for opaclanguage three are selected
09:49 kf chris: you cant choose your langauge when templates are installed but option for chosing language is not activated - thats my problem. and you cant expect people to change browser settings
09:49 magnusenger when i deselct one in opaclanguage, the coeesponding checkbox in language is "automagically" ticked...
09:50 nicomo kf: Ah, yes, that's another issue
09:50 chris kf: yep if you arent going to offer them the option then you should disable browser detect
09:50 chris there needs to be a sys pref to disable browser detection
09:51 nicomo yes, let's vote that in right on the spot :-)
09:51 chris but dont turn it off for everyone, since some people like it
09:51 nicomo fair enough
09:51 kf chris: I think English libraries are not aware of that - but the result is atm that people curious about koha see ugly opacs, happened to me often
09:51 * chris is sick of things that people like getting taken out completely when it could just be a syspref
09:54 kf chris: I like sysprefs :) but I think the default behaviour should make koha look good, even when your browser is not English ;)
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09:55 chris yep, however i quite like how i can view most kohas in english without having to do anything
09:56 chris so like i say, a syspref for browser language detection is a good way to get both
09:56 chris it could be off by default
09:56 kf chris++
09:57 nicomo ok with that, sounds reasonable enough
09:57 kf perhaps we can add something to css preferences, that the file needs to be copied to other languages as well?
09:57 kf or make it work without copying them?
09:57 nicomo kf, by the way, have you had time to give some thought to the ergonomic of
09:58 nicomo[…]lation_parameters
09:59 chris kf: for 3.4 we are not copying css/images .. only js (since js needs to be translated)
10:01 kf nicomo: sorry - I know I promised to think about it :( I m a bit torn, its nice to see what rules apply to a combination of borrower and item type in one line, but its getting hard to add those rules, so perhaps it would be better to divide them to several pages? Have you looked at LEK? You can define rules there, but I dont like that so much.
10:01 nicomo Haven't looked that way yet
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10:02 CGI483 how to install koha 2.2.9 with mysql 5
10:02 CGI483 pls help me to solve this
10:03 chris why do you want to install 2.2.9 ?
10:03 kf chris: images can be translated to - we use a German version of bridge icon set in our Horizon opacs
10:03 CGI483 koha 2.2.9 with mysql 5
10:03 chris yes but why CGI483
10:03 chris 2.2.9 is very very old and out of date
10:04 CGI483 i was using koha 2.2.5 with mysql 4 and it was working fine
10:04 CGI483 but now i upgraded the server and now i have mysql 5
10:04 chris kf: might need to split the images then, translatable ones and non-translatable ones
10:05 CGI483 whether my kohas 2.2.5 mysql Data base will suite for koha 3 version
10:05 kf chris: perhaps make it just possible to add images when needed and fallback to default (en) when there are no translated images
10:05 chris kf: yep that would work
10:06 CGI483 is there any installtion document for koha 3
10:06 CGI483 on fedor 6
10:06 CGI483 on fedora 6
10:06 * chris has to go to bed
10:06 chris good night all
10:06 CGI483 thank u
10:06 paul_p bye chris. g'night
10:07 CGI483 chris bye good night
10:07 kf good night chris!
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10:19 sunny hello there?
10:21 sunny need support here...does KOHA support to export/import Marc file ? for example a marc file of .001 extension consist info about 100 titles ....can i import on koha...can i export it as marc file?
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10:29 amadan Is there a way to verify if zebra is running
10:29 amadan in fedora
10:32 hdl yaz-client unix:/path/to/bibliosocket
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10:37 amadan hdl, I uploaded some data into koha but I'm unable to search for them since the search engine does not return anything. Could you be of help?
10:43 hdl I could be.
10:44 hdl But there are so many reasons why it fails, that it might be hard.
10:44 hdl and long
10:49 hdl amadan: are you used to command line ?
10:50 amadan sure
10:52 amadan hdl please chk your private messages
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12:39 jdavidb good morning, #koha!
12:43 Ropuch Hi jdavidb
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12:47 Nate joined #koha
12:47 Nate Good Morning Everyone!
12:48 jwagner Good morning Nate
12:49 Nate morning jwagner
12:49 kf good morning jdavidb, jwagner and Nate
12:49 Nate morning!
12:50 jwagner Hi kf
12:52 nicomo morning Nate, morning North America
12:52 Nate hiya nicomo
12:55 chris_n g'morning #koha
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13:08 Nate hi chris_n!
13:09 hdl hi all
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13:29 Nate Hi hdl, gmcharlt
13:32 paul_p hello Nate & chris_n & jwagner & jdavidb & America (north & south, even if I don't think there are south-A here)
13:32 Nate Hi paul_p
13:34 chris_n howdy paul_p, gmcharlt, hdl, Nate, et al
13:34 * paul_p playing with XSLT for intranet today...
13:34 chris_n gmcharlt: I have koha HEAD installed and mostly running on win32 under strawberry
13:35 chris_n I'm working on getting zebra jump-started
13:36 * paul_p really against Koha on win, as our customer will request us to install Koha on windows (you'll say that I can answer, yes, it's 10x the price for Debian. But in fact I don't care. I can't ask any of our employee to do that... he would dismiss...)
13:37 paul_p ( nb : ;-) )
13:37 gmcharlt hdl: ping
13:37 gmcharlt paul_p: we get the occassional person asking if EG can be installed on Win2k
13:37 gmcharlt sure, if you're small and are running a VM
13:38 paul_p that's what we answer sometimes too ;-)
13:38 hdl gmcharlt: pong
13:38 gmcharlt but somehow that question is *always* asked with implication of "where can I download setup.exe for the EG (or Koha) server"
13:39 gmcharlt hdl: looking for "coderun" branch - not seeing it on
13:39 gmcharlt what's the actual one for new_acq?
13:39 hdl gmcharlt:
13:40 hdl it contains new_acq and our devs.
13:40 chris_n gmcharlt, hdl: win32 install is not for the faint-of-heart atm and will finally only be as "easy" as any *nix install unless someone else takes up the task of creating and maintaining an msi type installer
13:40 paul_p s/our devs/other devs sponsored by Marseille universities/
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13:40 gmcharlt chris_n: are there any cheap or libre tools for creating MSIs?
13:41 paul_p chris_n: yes and no. even 'apt-get install koha' will sound complex to a real small library...
13:41 chris_n but the availability of it will at least proved the opportunity for koha to expand its base in some environs where M$ is the order of the day
13:41 chris_n gmcharlt: yes and even a perl module for assisting in the creation of msi's
13:41 * gmcharlt suspects that most vendors and consultants woudl happily charge a bunch of small libraries $50 each to run apt-get install koha for them ;)
13:42 paul_p $50 ? you're kidding ! noless than $500 :D
13:42 chris_n heh
13:42 chris_n just think of what they'd pay if they called M$$$$$$$
13:42 gmcharlt the other $450 pays for vetting the customer's server, installing security patches, etc., of course :P
13:43 paul_p koha is a high level software. being cheap (money) means it's cheap (features)
13:44 chris_n gmcharlt:[…]l-Dist-WiX-1.000/
13:44 chris_n also, I think M$'s msi stuff is available at no charge
13:47 chris_n paul_p: good observation.... people often equate a low price with low quality
13:50 gmcharlt hdl: I'm going to close the gap in the DBrev numbers when I merge if that's OK with you
13:54 hdl ok for me.
13:54 hdl It was a mere convienience for us not to have to change the DBrev all the time.
14:17 pastebot "gmcharlt" at pasted "DB update errors" (12 lines) at
14:17 gmcharlt hdl: ^^
14:25 gmcharlt hdl: the merge of is bad
14:26 gmcharlt it will not do to have things like the old (branchzip, etc.) be moved to a new DB rev
14:41 kf paul_p: will xslt for intranet be available in 3.2? plz say yes :)
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14:42 paul_p kf : yes :)
14:42 kf paul_p: yay!!
14:43 paul_p but i'll write only the unimarc xslt (from the opac unimarc one)
14:43 paul_p it's easy, but a lot of changes must be done in html tags
14:43 kf paul_p: I think this is a projekt I probably could work on - can u use opac xslt as a start? and will it be possible to activate it for marc21?
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14:44 hdl gmcharlt: mmm.
14:46 paul_p kf: I copied the unimarc from opac to staff, and changes it. mainly, it's some s/opac-search/\/catalogue\/search/ and <span> to <li> or <strong>
14:47 kf paul_p: thats great news, I think is doable
14:48 hdl I can make it right For tomorrow
14:48 hdl tonight would be better
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14:54 jwagner gmcharlt, still online?
14:54 gmcharlt hdl: ok
14:54 gmcharlt jwagner: yes
14:55 jwagner We talked last week about a patch you did to improve record matching -- you were going to let me know when/where that could be found.  Did you have a chance to look it up?
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15:00 Melanie I am using the report for circulation statistics.    I select the type as "checkouts."  There is also the option to select renewals.  Does checkouts only count "checkouts" or is it also counting renewals?  (just clarifying our stats.)
15:01 wizzyrea bleh I wish sharon were here she would know that.
15:01 owen checkouts and renewals are counted separately in the statistics table, so it's very possible checkouts only counts checkouts
15:02 Melanie ok. Thanks.
15:05 Melanie We also have a report to count users who were active in a month: SELECT YEAR(issuedate), MONTH(issuedate), categorycode, COUNT(DISTINCT borrowernumber) FROM old_issues LEFT JOIN borrowers USING (borrowernumber) GROUP BY YEAR(issuedate), MONTH(issuedate), categorycode    ***is this just counting "unique" borrowers?  i.e. just counting them only once for the month if they checked out?
15:11 owen Should be, given the "DISTINCT borrowernumber"
15:12 Melanie k.... Thanks.  I figured but being new to reading all this, don't want to assume much!
15:23 * owen hadn't tried that report before, looks useful
15:25 jwagner is now known as jwagner_meeting
15:26 rhcl I assume you all have read/are aware of the article in American Libraries about Queens Borough Public Library filing suit against Sirsi for "fraudulent bait-and switch"
15:27 * owen has read about the suit, if not that particular article
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15:32 reiko hello
15:34 reiko i'm having error 114 when searching for authorities with attr="1=Any", any ideas ?
15:34 kf paul_p: where can I test xslt in intranet, is it already in head?
15:34 paul_p nope, i'm working on it
15:35 kf paul_p: oh, ok. perhaps you can tell me when its publicly available, so that I can try for MARC21
15:35 owen paul_p++ # for xslt in intranet!
15:36 kf yes, paul_p++ !
15:36 * paul_p slow on keyboard those days, because a lizard has small fingers ( private joke for owen :D )
15:38 wizzyrea owen: can you use jquery to hide elements in the OPAC results? (asking you before I go whole hog trying to figure it out)
15:38 wizzyrea rhcl I would post a link, I have heard of this suit but not read that particular article
15:39 owen wizzyrea: The main obstacle to that is that many things do not have unique ids or spans
15:39 wizzyrea Humbug.
15:39 owen Don't take my word for it, that's just my concern.
15:39 wizzyrea no no I feel your concern
15:40 wizzyrea that would definitely make the job harder :(
15:41 wizzyrea (we wanted to get rid of the call number row, among other things, since it shows the LC call number which has no real relevance to our patrons)
15:41 wizzyrea (since all of our stuff has local call numbers)
15:41 owen How is that not a bug?
15:41 wizzyrea well, configurability of the results display is a bug in general, imo
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15:42 wizzyrea I oughta be able to have in the back interface a settings page where I check boxes to say which elements I want to show
15:42 wizzyrea check title, check author, check location, check pubdate, etc
15:43 wizzyrea uncheck lc call number
15:43 wizzyrea i know. big job, no one will pay for it.
15:43 wizzyrea blah blah
15:45 chris_n gmcharlt, hdl, anyone else: any problems with XML::Simple not parsing xml back into a hash consistently?
15:46 gmcharlt chris_n: in some cases, XML::Simple can be a little too simple
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15:48 pastebot "chris_n" at pasted "XML::Simple Example 1" (71 lines) at
15:49 pastebot "chris_n" at pasted "XML::Simple Example 2" (40 lines) at
15:49 sekjal wizzyrea: I'd like a similar interface for choosing which columns to display in both OPAC and staff client tables
15:49 chris_n here ^^ are two examples showing what I think is a problem
15:49 chris_n opps
15:49 chris_n above that is
15:50 sekjal wizzyrea: and for choosing which order to show the OPAC tabs in (i.e. Holdings, Description, Subscriptions, etc.)
15:50 sekjal but yes, the trick is getting it prioritized on someone's list
15:52 chris_n gmcharlt: do you have a recommendation on a more reliable approach to xml?
15:52 * chris_n imagines XML::Difficult and XML::Hard and maybe XML::Impossible :-)
15:55 gmcharlt chris_n: (1) check the list of parameters for XML::Simple - doing things like using ForceArray can help keep things consistent
15:56 gmcharlt chris_n: (2) XML::Sax or XML::Twig and walking through parse tree directly
15:56 chris_n tnx gmcharlt
15:57 wizzyrea sekjal: yea. Well, maybe the first thing to work on is getting the results with unique enough spans/id's so that we can toggle them with jquery
15:57 wizzyrea since that's the "easiest" way to handle the problem at the moment
15:58 wizzyrea maybe owen would disagree
15:58 sekjal wizzyrea:  yes; everything should have a unique handle so we can manipulate it with precision
16:00 * wizzyrea loves the word "precision"
16:00 wizzyrea :)
16:05 reiko i'm having error 114 when searching for authorities with attr="1=Any", any ideas ?
16:09 kf going home now - bye #koha
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16:12 hdl reiko: attr 1=Any
16:13 hdl Not attr="1=Any"
16:14 reiko but
16:14 reiko my query says @attr "1=Any"
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16:16 reiko hdl do you know why that happens?
16:17 paul_p jwagner_meeting: ping me when you're back pls
16:18 hdl reiko: I donot know what your code is coming from
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16:34 jwagner_meeting is now known as jwagner
16:34 jwagner paul_p, I'm back
16:35 paul_p hi jane
16:35 Nate Heya everyone can someone tell me what version of the GNU Koha falls under? Is it v3?
16:35 gmcharlt Nate: GPL v2 or later
16:36 Nate thanks gmcharlt!
16:36 paul_p i thought I remembered a patch (from you ?) displaying items in a more visible way (with "my branch items" highlighted). Investigating I just find a patch for 3070 (oct, 9th).
16:36 paul_p did I remember wrong ?
16:37 paul_p my goal is to have items on my branch displayed 1st, or highlighted, it's important for consortiums & serials, where you can have 200+ items
16:37 paul_p (on OPAC, for patrons identified)
16:37 wizzyrea ooh, I like that paul_p
16:37 wizzyrea if you are going to do that, could you make the spans/ID's more unique too?
16:38 paul_p wizzyrea: bad news => i'm really a poor css/html/xhtml man
16:38 wizzyrea humbug. :)
16:39 * wizzyrea toddles off to see about procuring funding for that project
16:39 jwagner paul_p, see Bug 3702 -- I wrote a patch for staff mode to force display of library in alphabetical order by branch description.  owen was going to write an equivalent patch for OPAC.
16:39 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3702 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---,, ASSIGNED, Change sort order of items in staff title display
16:39 paul_p yes, this one I applied it on my branch. But i was looking for something else.
16:40 paul_p but maybe it was a dream I thought became true (yes we can)
16:40 owen jwagner: it sounds like paul_p's approach is going to be superior
16:40 jwagner I can't account for your dreams :-) but 3702 is the only one I've done on item/library display.
16:41 jwagner owen, agreed on paul_p's approach. But it will take a better programmer than I am to do it :-(
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17:14 paul_p all = how do you say a serial subscription is still "alive" (frenchism) ie, you still recieve issues for it ?
17:14 paul_p owen ? jwagner ?
17:14 owen Hmmm... good question...
17:15 * owen honestly doesn't know the answer!
17:15 sekjal paul_p: "alive" is pretty good.  Perhaps also "active", or "current"?
17:15 owen "Current" would have been my guess
17:15 owen I don't think "alive" is right
17:16 sekjal owen: it certainly isn't a standard way of saying it in English, but it evokes the right meaning (to me, at least)
17:17 paul_p alive is a frenchism, I was sure. I'll say current (i'm working on serials tab display on opac)
17:17 owen I'd vote for either "active" or "current," but I've never actually worked with another ILS that did serials management
17:20 paul_p owen: & sekjal, what do you think of that :
17:20 paul_p yikes.
17:20 paul_p not what I wanted.
17:20 paul_p old image
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17:20 pianohacker Good morning, #koha
17:20 pianohacker owen: around?
17:20 owen Yes
17:21 pianohacker owen: just saw the new checkouts list on the circulation screen
17:21 pianohacker it's more consistent with, but it's a bit... crammed
17:21 owen Yup, saw your comment about it. I've brought the boxing gloves ;)
17:21 pianohacker hehe
17:22 owen But seriously, I agree about the crammed.
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17:22 paul_p owen & sekjal: what do you think of that :
17:22 pianohacker Though, if possible, we should find some things we can drop from both
17:22 paul_p (MISSING and OPAC NOTE being what is in the DB (the list of missing issues and the subscriptionhistory opac note field)
17:23 * paul_p removing () on "There are X subscription(s) associated...", they are useless
17:23 owen paul_p: I think your notation for subscription dates/status is logical
17:24 owen pianohacker: Is question prompted by work on ajax_circ? Just curious.
17:24 sekjal paul_p: I agree with owen on that, though displaying both "now" and "current" is slightly redundant
17:24 pianohacker owen: why yes :)
17:25 paul_p owen: I remove one of now (current) ? which one ?
17:26 owen I actually don't think it's redundant
17:26 paul_p that was my feeling too. so I keep both.
17:27 paul_p thanks, guys. time to leave for me (6:30PM in France)
17:28 pianohacker bye, paul_p
17:28 sekjal goodnight, paul_p
17:31 * pianohacker is not a circ worker, but the charge and price columns in particular seem not particularly useful; could we drop them from both?
17:32 owen pianohacker: Firing up my VM, hang on
17:33 pianohacker How smoothly is Linux/Koha on VM working for you? I have a library with only windows machines that needs Koha, and the 2.2 installer is unpleasant
17:34 owen I can't really comment because I've only used it for minor testing so far
17:35 owen Here's what I know about the charge/price issue:
17:35 owen Circ desk people want the price to be visible because people want to know the replacement cost of books they've lost
17:36 owen And since no one wants to have to click to get to anything, there it is.
17:36 owen My library doesn't do overdue fines, but I'm assuming that's what the "charge" column does: shows you the oustanding fine for a particular item?
17:37 owen I would think that's a high priority bit of info too
17:37 owen If I could do anything I'd move the renew/check in functionality out of that table somehow
17:37 owen But I know it was added because folks wanted it at their fingertips
17:38 owen That's the problem, everyone wants to add stuff to keep it up front and accessible.
17:42 pianohacker right
17:42 pianohacker after canvassing a sample of circ clerks, you could find out that every element in that table is crucial (plus some stuff that is currently missing)
17:42 owen One idea I had (no idea how this would be implemented) would be to add a separate tab for checkin/renewal, just like there's another tab for holds
17:43 pianohacker That would help some
17:43 pianohacker Make the basic checkouts tab into simply an informational table
17:44 * pianohacker tries to ignore large flashing "INTERFACE CREEP" light in his head
17:44 pianohacker would the same interface work on, do you think?
17:44 * owen hates
17:45 owen Actually what I hate is the fuzzy distinction between the two pages
17:45 sekjal or we just make the large and tedious commentment to make both the OPAC and staff client interface pages fully user configurable
17:45 owen I hate that part of what does is duplicate what does, in terms of displaying information
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17:46 sekjal s/commentment/commitment/
17:46 * sekjal has problems with words
17:46 owen sekjal: I think that pretty much guarantees that libraries will create the most cumbersom, information-heavy display possible
17:47 sekjal owen: true, but it'd be their choice
17:49 owen sekjal: If we're talking about 3.4, then we definitely have to focus on working with what we've got.
17:49 owen The kind of change you're talking about would be pretty drastic.
17:50 owen I'm not even sure what kind of framework would be robust enough to handle that variety of customizations
17:52 chris morning
17:52 chris i agree about 3.4
17:52 pianohacker Maybe we could simply excise all of the circ functionality from
17:52 chris but moving forward after that
17:53 chris i think the win, is to write a webservices layer
17:53 pianohacker Thus, the two pages would be like this:
17:53 pianohacker Checkouts / Renew / Holds
17:53 pianohacker Checkouts / Holds
17:53 pianohacker chris: I've got a partial start on that with svc/checkouts/ for ajaxcirc; how much more did you have in mind?
17:54 chris continuing along that vein
17:54 chris something that hands back xml or json (you can ask for either) or yaml ... not sure yet
17:55 chris then customising the display becomes possible
17:55 chris so does non browser based circ too
17:55 owen That's all greek to me, does that become possible? XSLT?
17:56 chris owen: if the webservice hands back JSON, it can be totally rendered by js
17:56 sekjal gtg: meeting to help convince another local library to migrate to Koha
17:57 chris the ultimate goal is to seperate the display logic, from the functional logic
17:57 owen sekjal: Be sure to bring your lead "convincin'" pipe
17:57 brendan morning #koha
17:57 pianohacker Yes, it can; I'm actually thinking of having the checkouts webservice send back html after a successful checkout (a rendering of the new table row), however
17:57 pianohacker duplicating rendering logic in js is ugly and slow, with our current tools
17:58 chris pianohacker: itd be nice if you could make that an option
17:58 chris html=1
17:58 pianohacker chris: that's what I was thinking
17:59 pianohacker 'twould probably be put into C4::Service
17:59 chris im thinking down the line here, when you have an iphone circ ap etc
17:59 chris itd be nice to have a webservices layer, that is display agnostic, so the client app can control that
18:06 owen pianohacker: I think my inclination is to remove the checkouts/fines/holds table from completely. Why duplicate it at all?
18:07 owen I guess the only question is: does need to display that information (and more) because needs to be made leaner
18:07 pianohacker owen: i was thinking just an informational display on, but completely removing it would also work
18:08 owen Maybe should only display information about the patron himself
18:09 pianohacker Perhaps have a link to with the text "3 Checkouts, 2 holds?" in the main area?
18:10 pianohacker getting very summarized, but I think it'd be useful for circ staff to have some idea of whether the patron has anything checked out
18:11 pianohacker but have to go for for any detail
18:12 owen Yeah, I like that idea
18:12 pianohacker I'll implement all this as part of fixing ajaxcirc, then
18:13 jwagner owen, pianohacker, chris, on the patron display, we'd be interested in anything that speeds up loading the page.  One of our siges allows a whole lot of checkouts, and if a patron has 70-80 things checked out, the page takes forever to load.
18:13 pianohacker right
18:13 pianohacker another argument in favor of cutting it
18:14 pianohacker jwagner: ajaxcirc will also greatly speed up checkouts for same patrons
18:16 jwagner That would be very nice.
18:45 jwagner I was away & just skimmed the discussion, sorry, but if while things are getting reworked, you can make and use the same rules for checkin, that would be great :-)  See Bug 3514
18:45 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3514 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---,, NEW, Returning items through patron Details tab doesn't activate all circulation functions
18:55 owen jwagner: What we propose is to eliminate the option of checking in or renewing from
18:56 owen What would remain is making sure checking in via follows all the rules checking in from does
18:58 jwagner That would do the trick -- thanks.
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19:36 sekjal well, that meeting went well.
19:36 sekjal looks like a prominent NY-area law school is looking to make the switch
19:39 pianohacker sekjal++
19:39 * sekjal didn't even have to bust out the lead "convincin'" pipe
19:39 pianohacker can I borrow that pipe?
19:40 * pianohacker thinks it would be useful in determining which feature requests he needs to get done at work
19:40 * sekjal scans the pipe's barcode and passes it to pianohacker.
19:40 sekjal due 12/11/09
19:41 * pianohacker attempts to check in locally, and is foiled by by bug 3514
19:41 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3514 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---,, NEW, Returning items through patron Details tab doesn't activate all circulation functions
19:41 pianohacker curse you, circ logic
19:43 chris back
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19:53 jwagner pianohacker, the problem is that you tried checking it in through the patron details page!  Try it through the Checkout tab :-)
19:53 pianohacker oh noes
19:59 sekjal and time for another meeting...
20:02 owen I gotta run. See y'all tomorrow.
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20:03 chris ack meeting for me too
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21:50 CGI409 I have a question regarding the circulation module of Koha. Is it possible to create reserve requests for building rooms? It would need to allow the request to be scheduled for certain dates and time lengths.
21:50 pianohacker CGI409: Koha does not include that functionality at the moment (at least not directly)
21:51 pianohacker it does allow holds to be placed on items at a future date
21:51 CGI409 meaning you can schedule the hold for a certain pick-up time?
21:51 pianohacker so what you could do, is create a "record" for each room, an item for each length you think would be common
21:51 pianohacker CGI409: just date, not time
21:52 CGI409 So it is possible to set a two hour check out period, correct?
21:53 CGI409 But no calendar feature so the item can be checked out more than once on the same day
21:55 CGI409 Is there plans to construct this feature in the future?
21:55 pianohacker hmm. actually, come to think of it, hourly loans are missing two (a certain company developed them, and has not released it to the community)
21:55 pianohacker I believe so, but I don't know details
21:55 pianohacker you might try asking on the mailing list
21:56 CGI409 do you know the shortest loan period available straight from the Koha download?
21:59 pianohacker one day, as far as limits go
22:00 pianohacker You can check something out, then go right back and check it in
22:00 pianohacker but it can only _limit_ checkouts with the granularity of a day
22:00 CGI409 ok
22:01 pianohacker heading out for now, be back in an hour or so
22:01 pianohacker CGI409: good luck; you may consider a dedicated meeting room package
22:01 pianohacker left #koha
22:02 CGI409 is there anyone else available to answer questions?
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22:05 wizzyrea always lots of people listening
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22:06 wizzyrea blehg
22:06 paul_p left #koha
22:06 chris heh
22:14 wizzyrea chris! Hi!
22:14 wizzyrea I feel like I've been in a whirlwind the last two days
22:14 chris internets asploding?
22:14 wizzyrea good lord yes!
22:15 chris thats no fun
22:15 wizzyrea between power outages, multiplexer failures at our ISP, bad UPS units, and human error it's definitely been murphy's heaven.
22:15 brendan hey wizzyrea
22:15 wizzyrea yo brendan
22:15 brendan @wunder santa barbara, ca
22:15 munin brendan: The current temperature in Near Mission - TC, Santa Barbara, California is 26.0�C (2:14 PM PST on November 10, 2009). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 17%. Dew Point: -1.0�C. Pressure: 29.96 in 1014.4 hPa (Steady).
22:16 brendan wow hot today
22:38 chris_n @wunder 28334
22:38 munin chris_n: The current temperature in Erwin, North Carolina is 16.0�C (5:19 PM EST on November 10, 2009). Conditions: Light Rain. Humidity: 88%. Dew Point: 14.0�C. Pressure: 30.14 in 1020 hPa (Steady). Flash Flood Watch in effect from 1 am EST Wednesday through Thursday evening...
22:38 wizzyrea @wunder lawrence, ks
22:38 munin wizzyrea: The current temperature in Channel 6 Downtown, Lawrence, Kansas is 16.4�C (4:37 PM CST on November 10, 2009). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 60%. Dew Point: 9.0�C. Pressure: 30.32 in 1026.6 hPa (Steady).
22:39 chris_n hmmm... remnants of Ida coming through
22:47 Nate goodnight #koha!
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23:44 chris_n2 evening #koha
23:44 brendan evening chris_n2

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