IRC log for #koha, 2009-10-29

Time	Nick	Message
00:10		hdl_laptop left #koha
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00:54		chris joined #koha
01:13		rich-away is now known as richard
02:24	chris_n2	back to win32 for a bit
02:26		Topic for #koha is now Discussion channel for the Koha ILS \| Final Results of the Koha Foundation Voting: http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?[…]e_in_final_survey \| Next Koha foundation forming IRC meeting will be held on #koha 29 October 2009 at 19:00 UTC+0 \| Time Converter: http://tinyurl.com/yjvlsam
02:26		Topic for #koha is now Discussion channel for the Koha ILS \| Next Koha foundation forming IRC meeting will be held on #koha 29 October 2009 at 19:00 UTC+0 \| Time Converter: http://tinyurl.com/yjvlsam
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03:28	Amit	hi chris
03:29	Amit	good morning #koha
03:29	chris_n2	howdy Amit
03:29	Amit	hi chris_n2
03:30		brendan joined #koha
03:31	Amit	heya brendan
03:32	brendan	hey Amit
03:32	brendan	how you doing?
03:32	brendan	you been having a good time?
03:32	Amit	everything is fine
03:32	Amit	yes
03:33	brendan	great
03:45	chris_n2	g'night #koha
03:45	brendan	night chirs_n2
03:55	brendan	I can't remember right now -- doea bulkmarcimport do any matching on the database
03:55	brendan	s/doea/does
03:56	brendan	I think to get any matching you have to use the stage/manage found under tools
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04:28	brendan	@wunder 93117
04:28	munin	brendan: The current temperature in Northwest Goleta, Goleta, California is 15.3ï¿½C (9:22 PM PDT on October 28, 2009). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 27%. Dew Point: -4.0ï¿½C. Pressure: 29.94 in 1013.8 hPa (Rising). Wind Advisory in effect until 3 am PDT Thursday...
04:28	brendan	yup it sure is windy here munin
04:34	Amit	@wunder Bangalore
04:34	munin	Amit: The current temperature in Bangalore, India is 22.0ï¿½C (8:30 AM IST on October 29, 2009). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 75%. Dew Point: 19.0ï¿½C.
04:43	brendan	@wunder new delhi, indian
04:43	munin	brendan: The current temperature in New Orleans Lakefront, Louisiana is 22.0ï¿½C (11:19 PM CDT on October 28, 2009). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 83%. Dew Point: 19.0ï¿½C. Pressure: 29.92 in 1013 hPa (Steady).
04:43	brendan	@wunder new delhi, india
04:43	munin	brendan: The current temperature in New Delhi, India is 22.0ï¿½C (9:30 AM IST on October 29, 2009). Conditions: Smoke. Humidity: 43%. Dew Point: 9.0ï¿½C. Pressure: 30.09 in 1019 hPa (Steady).
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05:30	brendan	@quote
05:30	munin	brendan: Error: "quote" is not a valid command.
05:30	brendan	@random
05:30	munin	brendan: Error: The command "random" is available in the Dict, Factoids, and Quote plugins. Please specify the plugin whose command you wish to call by using its name as a command before "random".
05:30	brendan	@quote random
05:30	munin	brendan: Quote #42: "<chris_n> @gmcharlt: it's broken; how do I fix it? <munin> chris_n: Error: gmcharlt: is not a valid command." (added by chris_n at 09:17 AM, October 28, 2009)
05:46		brendan left #koha
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05:47	yesan	Hello everyone
05:47	Amit	heya yesan
05:47	yesan	looks amith is there
05:50	UTCBLR	I think amit is busy
05:50	UTCBLR	he is not responding
05:50	yesan	hello Israel
05:51	UTCBLR	yes
05:51	yesan	good
05:51	UTCBLR	Koha errorThe following fatal error has occurred:Unable to provide required featuresCompilation failed in require at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Biblio.pm line 27.BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Biblio.pm line 27.Compilation failed in require at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Reserves.pm line 28.BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Reserves.pm line 28.Compilation failed in require at /usr/shar
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05:51	yesan	amit
05:52	yesan	Amith may have a solution for this problem
05:52	UTCBLR	Koha errorThe following fatal error has occurred:Unable to provide required featuresCompilation failed in require at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Biblio.pm line 27.BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Biblio.pm line 27.Compilation failed in require at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Reserves.pm line 28.BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Reserves.pm line 28.Compilation failed in require at /usr/shar
05:53	yesan	or someone
05:53	yesan	Chris, Can u help UTCBLR
05:53	UTCBLR	Amit will not help us
05:53	yesan	he has some problems
05:53	UTCBLR	just forget about him
05:53	UTCBLR	we can get help from some one else
05:54	yesan	I know Amit, he might be too busy
05:54	UTCBLR	Mr. Chris can u help me
05:54	UTCBLR	Hopefully
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06:08	yesan	UTCBLR
06:08	yesan	try installing those missing modules
06:09	yesan	lik
06:09	yesan	like
06:09	yesan	Biblio.PM
06:09	yesan	Biblio.pm
06:09	yesan	Reserves.pm
06:10	UTCBLR	hello
06:10	UTCBLR	i was out for a minute
06:11	UTCBLR	ok i will do
06:11	yesan	u haven't listed all the modules that are missing
06:11	yesan	try install these
06:11	yesan	bye
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06:48	UTCBLR	hello
06:51	Ropuch	Morning, #koha
06:51	Amit	hi ropuch, indradg
06:52	Ropuch	Hello Amit
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07:04	Ropuch	Hi magnusenger
07:14		kf joined #koha
07:14	kf	morning #koha
07:16	Ropuch	Morning kf
07:18	kf	morning Ropuch :)
07:20	Ropuch	I had my first german lesson yesterday
07:21	Ropuch	And it seems to be quite easy to learn [;
07:23	Amit	heya KF
07:24	greenmang0	Ropuch: http://www.bbc.co.uk/languages/german/lj/
07:24	kf	hi Amit
07:25	kf	Ropuch: never heard that German is easy before... :)
07:25	Ropuch	It seems to be, but letm dive into it more ;>
07:26	kf	kf: when you need help with your homework ... ;)
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07:27	kf	Ropuch: if you need help with your homework ... (im not really awake right now)
07:27	Ropuch	Me neither
07:28	Ropuch	kf: thanks [;
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07:56	Ropuch	Hello nicomo
07:58	Ropuch	I wonder if can buy a copy of MODx Web Development for my library
07:58	nicomo	hello Ropuch and all
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08:25	Amit	heya nicomo
08:27	UTCBLR	Hello to all
08:27	UTCBLR	can anybody help me
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08:28	Ropuch	UTCBLR: what is your problem?
08:28	UTCBLR	oh yes Ropuch thanks
08:28	UTCBLR	yes my problem is
08:28	Ropuch	Morning, paul_p
08:28	UTCBLR	Koha errorThe following fatal error has occurred:Unable to provide required featuresCompilation failed in require at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Biblio.pm line 27.BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Biblio.pm line 27.Compilation failed in require at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Reserves.pm line 28.BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Reserves.pm line 28.Compilation failed in require at /usr/shar
08:29	UTCBLR	Mr. Ropuch please help me in this regards, just look at the error message in the chat
08:31	UTCBLR	Mr. Ropuch what would be the problem ?
08:31	Ropuch	Oh
08:31	Ropuch	What distro are you using?
08:32	UTCBLR	I am using it on Debian Linux
08:32	Ropuch	Ok, give me 1 minute
08:32	UTCBLR	ok Mr. Ropuch
08:32	paul_p	hello world !
08:32	UTCBLR	Hello Mr Paul
08:33	UTCBLR	how are you doing sir
08:33	Ropuch	UTCBLR: sudo apt-get install libmarc-xml-perl libmarc-record-perl
08:34	Ropuch	http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?[…]uide_ubuntu_hardy
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08:36	Ropuch	UTCBLR: http://pastebin.com/d6f8e165d < - try to install all the packages
08:36	UTCBLR	Mr.Ropuch I have install it already
08:37	Ropuch	And afair you need 'sudo cpan HTTP::OAI'
08:37	Ropuch	UTCBLR: hm
08:38	Ropuch	From the error you get I can guess you either don't have zoom & marc modules installed, or koha can't find them
08:38	Ropuch	You've followed hardy install guide?
08:40	UTCBLR	hello
08:41	hdl_laptop	hi all
08:41	Ropuch	Hi hdl_laptop
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08:47	Blr-1	Mr. Ropuch
08:47	Blr-1	waiting for your reply
08:48	Ropuch	Blr-1: 09:38 < Ropuch> You've followed hardy install guide?
08:48	Ropuch	09:39 < UTCBLR> hello
08:48	Blr-1	yes sir
08:48	Ropuch	I didn't get your question
08:48	Blr-1	sir
08:48	Blr-1	Koha errorThe following fatal error has occurred:Unable to provide required featuresCompilation failed in require at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Biblio.pm line 27.BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Biblio.pm line 27.Compilation failed in require at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Reserves.pm line 28.BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Reserves.pm line 28.Compilation failed in require at /usr/share
08:49	Blr-1	I tried to install the modules which u told
08:50	Ropuch	It's your first try with koha?
08:51	Ropuch	I mean: do you have any koha database, or just doing clean install?
08:51	Blr-1	clean install
08:52	Blr-1	working on KOha for the first time sir
08:53	Ropuch	perl -MMARC::File::XML -e 1
08:53	Ropuch	Try this
08:53	Ropuch	Did you get any output?
08:53		\|Lupin\| joined #koha
08:54	Ropuch	Hi \|Lupin\|
08:54	\|Lupin\|	hi
08:54	kf	hi Lupin
08:55	Blr-1	ok sir
08:56	Blr-1	Mr.Ropuch # UTF-8 Defaults for Koha (added DATE by YOURNAME)init-connect='SET NAMES utf8'character-set-server=utf8collation-server=utf8_general_ci
08:56	Blr-1	sorry
08:56	Blr-1	could not find ParserDetails.ini in /usr/local/share/perl/5.10.0/XML/SAXUnable to provide required featuresCompilation failed in require.BEGIN failed--compilation aborted.
08:56	Blr-1	perl -MMARC::File::XML -e 1could not find ParserDetails.ini in /usr/local/share/perl/5.10.0/XML/SAXUnable to provide required featuresCompilation failed in require.
09:00	Ropuch	Hm
09:10	Ropuch	You may have the same module installed from cpan and .deb at the same time
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09:29	chris	Ropuch++ #for trying
09:31	Ropuch	I hope i didn't cause more confusion to Blr
09:33	chris	im not sure that would be possible :)
09:34	Ropuch	I've made him apt-get install perl modules without asking if he had done that via cpan
09:34	Ropuch	I wasn't very smart of me
09:35	Ropuch	s/I/It
09:36	chris	normally that isnt a problem the cpan ones take precedence (because of the way @INC is done)
09:37	Ropuch	Koha 3.0 install is quite easy when following wiki tutorial
09:38	Ropuch	But maybe I'm saying that beacause I've installed it a few times
09:43	chris	there are certainly things a lot harder to install
09:43	chris	but it could be easier too
09:44	Ropuch	Oh man, scientists are so dumb sometimes
09:45	Ropuch	We have to spent lot of money till end of the year, so we're in little hurry. The 'scientists' have to send me lists of books, I;ve prepared a form for them (Title, Author, Year, ISbn etc)
09:46	Ropuch	But it proved to be to hard to just fill-in: I've received a document that looks more like mashup than a bibliography
09:46	Ropuch	And now i get a list with ISBn fields like: 9,78E+12
09:48	chris	heh
09:49	Amit	heya chris
09:53	kf	hi chris
09:55	kf	looking at bugs and enhancement request for notices, should I mark one of them as dublicate?
09:55	kf	bug 3494
09:55	munin	Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/b[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3494 enhancement, P5, ---, kohaprogrammersptfs.com, NEW, Option to bcc all notices
09:55	kf	bug 3260
09:55	munin	Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/b[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3260 enhancement, P5, ---, dbavousettptfs.com, ASSIGNED, Adding bcc to email notices
09:57	kf	chris: I was looking at koha code and database yesterday for options to make notices work as we need them to work and found a table notifys - seems to be a hlt feature that was lost - can you remember how it worked?
10:00	chris	hmm nope notifys wasnt an hlt one
10:00	chris	and yep those do look like duplicates
10:00	chris	hlt had one called attempted_contacts
10:01	chris	which was like the messagequeue is now
10:02	kf	ah ok, perhaps I got it wrong, I found old templates for notices which seemd to be for hlt
10:02	kf	is it ok to mark things as dublicate? I already found 4 bugs for "notice trigger does not work with default library"
10:03	chris	yep
10:03	chris	marking things as duplicates is great
10:04	chris	do you want the bug wrangler job? :-)
10:05	kf	I was thinking about it
10:06	chris	cool
10:06	kf	but not sure if I m the right person for the job
10:06	kf	and what it means and how time consuming it is... I want to do many things but time is really a problem :(
10:07	chris	nod
10:08	chris	basically its doing what you just did, finding duplicates, finding old bugs, pesterng people to test etc
10:08	kf	when do you think will be decided about the roles for 3.4?
10:09	kf	and: how to decide which bug is the duplicate? they are both assigned. hm.
10:09	chris	we will talk about about it at next developer meeting
10:10	chris	and probably email asking for more volunteers
10:10	kf	today is only about koha foundation, right?
10:10	chris	then sometime after that we will have a vote on irc probably
10:10	chris	yep
10:12	chris	my rule for duplicates is, the older one wins, ie the new gets marked a duplicate of the old one
10:12	kf	makes sense :)
10:13	kf	but they are linked to each other, so it should not be a problem I hope
10:13	chris	yeah it will be fine
10:14	kf	I worked on translation yesterday, do you have news for those ils-di strings?
10:14	chris	nope no new news
10:15	kf	hm ok, I just dont like it, when my translation is not 100% :)
10:17	Ropuch	hehe
10:20	hdl_laptop	Is there a problem with ils-di ?
10:21	kf	its a bit difficult in translation
10:22	kf	hdl_laptop: perhaps you can take a look at the untranslated strings in German 3.2 intranet translation? Or I can copy you an example.
10:22	kf	oh its opac not intrant
10:22	hdl_laptop	i will take a look at that.
10:23	kf	hdl_laptop: I have it open right now, want an example?
10:23	hdl_laptop	yes.
10:27	hdl_laptop	Just read the code there.
10:27	hdl_laptop	(11:25:43) hdl_laptop: And No it should never be translated.
10:27	hdl_laptop	(11:25:57) hdl_laptop: In fact, it is an example of response.
10:27	hdl_laptop	(11:26:13) kf: ah ok
10:27	hdl_laptop	(11:26:39) hdl_laptop: We should have a <code> tag which would be skipped by the translation
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10:33	kf	huh
10:34	crackjack	I'm running multiple zebra servers for multiple database hosting. But when I run rebuild_zebra, it doesnot re-build the bibs, it overlaps all the instances with the same record
10:34	kf	I just tried to find those string in another translation - chinese. Can not find them there
10:34	crackjack	what is the problem????There are data in the database, it also has the bibs record in the database
10:36	crackjack	can anyone help me with rebuild_zebra in multiple database, multiple zebra???
10:37	kf	hdl_laptop: can you check for ilsdi-strings in french translation? I wonder if there is something wrong with the German translation file
10:38	kf	hm it seems its too big
10:39	kf	oh my
10:41	crackjack	has anyone here tried multiple zebra, multiple database in a single machine???
10:44	slef	I'd ask the unassigned bug 3494 how they differ from the other one.
10:44	munin	Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/b[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3494 enhancement, P5, ---, kohaprogrammersptfs.com, RESOLVED DUPLICATE, Option to bcc all notices
10:45	slef	marking bugs as resolved without letting the requestor dissent can upset some people
10:45	slef	crackjack: yes. make sure you run different zebras on different ports and/or IPs.
10:45	slef	crackjack: then as long as you point to the right KOHA_CONF, all should be fine.
10:46	slef	maybe different zebra dbs is enough actually
10:46	slef	I forget :)
10:46	kf	slef: I think its the same programmer here, both ptfs
10:46	slef	oh that only works if you compromise on security between web apps (don't run them as their own users) I think
10:46	slef	kf: I've given up trying to understand which ptfs is the same as which ptfs.
10:47	slef	anyone got thoughts on that "strange behaviour of 3.04" email?
10:47	hdl_laptop	crackjack: different koha-conf.xml and zebra sockets is ok.
10:47	hdl_laptop	We use that.
10:48	hdl_laptop	slef: I sent a response.
10:48	slef	ok, I won't
10:56	crackjack	I have added eth0:dummy with proper IP address
10:56	paul_p	slef: I've sent a response, asking for more information (maybe they use koha express, and LL adds a link to ll.com)
10:56	crackjack	I have addred Listen 9090 in ports.conf
10:57	crackjack	I've written KOHA_CONF=/etc/koha/dummy-conf.xml
10:57	crackjack	I've also changed zebra sockets accordingly
10:58	crackjack	I have successfully run multiple zebra servers, only problem is with indexing
11:00	slef	paul_p: maybe. But if LL is google tracking users, is that even legal for EU libraries? (export of personal data without safe harbour) I thought Beda was a long-time user and Koha Express is 3.0.2
11:01	slef	crackjack: you need to change to the right KOHA_CONF for the koha you're indexing at least.
11:01	paul_p	yes, I know, that's why I just asked for more information about their platform. I'm (probably) wrong with koha express thing
11:03	crackjack	slef: do you mean I need to change KOHA_CONF everytime I run rebiuld??
11:05	slef	KOHA_CONF needs to match the koha whose index you are trying to rebuild
11:08	crackjack	slef: I think I'n not clear to you yet,....let me explain in detail
11:08	crackjack	I have a default installation of koha in /usr/share/koha and its configuration files are in /etc/koha
11:09	crackjack	then I copied all related files and renamed it accordingly as koha-zebra-server.sh to dummy-zebra-server.sh
11:10	crackjack	koha-conf.xml and koha-httpd.xml to dummy-conf.xml and dummy-httpd.xml
11:11	crackjack	then I included the path of dummy-conf.xml in the /usr/share/koha/bin/dummy-zebra-ctl.sh
11:12	crackjack	am I right upto this point???
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11:28	crackjack	no one here??
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11:34	slef	crackjack: sorry, I'm at work and need to concentrate on work. Unless you edited the xml files to run them on different ports, that's not enough.
11:35	slef	or to run differently somehow
11:36	crackjack	where is the place to edit ports in xml file
11:36	crackjack	i don't see any
11:36	crackjack	ok kool
11:36	crackjack	i;ll talk to you when you r freee'
11:37	crackjack	can you send me your email id??
11:38	slef	lines like <listen id="biblioserver" >unix:/home/ttllp/koha-dev-run/var/run/zebradb/bibliosocket</listen> defines the socket/port to use
11:39	slef	please email kohalists.katipo.co.nz rather than me. If you email me, you'll be pointed there and to http://www.software.coop/contact/
11:39	slef	sorry - I try to do what I can, but I am not rich enough to work for everyone for free.
11:41	crackjack	ok cool
11:41	crackjack	thanks for this buddy
11:41	crackjack	it was a great help
11:41	crackjack	i'll definitely send a mail to the kists
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11:47	slef	I hate letting people down, but I'm getting mobile phone calls about a library network problem.
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12:14	Amit	hi slef
12:14	\|Lupin\|	pls everybody
12:15	\|Lupin\|	is there a date scheduled for the rlease of 3.2 ?
12:16	gmcharlt	\|Lupin\|: I'm planning to release a pre-alpha on November 4
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12:16	gmcharlt	\|Lupin\|: at this point, bugfixing and translation would mean an additional month, probably two months before release of 3.2 gold
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12:18	slef	http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?[…]opment:roadmap3.2 needs update
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12:20	\|Lupin\|	gmcharlt: ok.
12:20		CGI451 left #koha
12:21	jwagner	Good morning all.
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12:21	\|Lupin\|	gmcharlt: I assume the changes in the db like the addition of olumns in the branches and borrowers table are not in 3.0.4... are they ?
12:21	gmcharlt	I don't think so - 3.0.4 should just be bugfixes
12:22	\|Lupin\|	gmcharlt: ok...
12:23	\|Lupin\|	gmcharlt: hmm I feel a bit stuck because we will need a version of Koha where the translations are more or less corect, but we can't use 3.0.4 because there are missing columns in the db... ny recommandation ?
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12:27	jwagner	Good morning, owen. I gather jdavidb was keeping you updated about all the props I gave you during my training session this week :-)
12:27	owen	:)
12:27	jwagner	They were well-earned props!
12:27	owen	I still haven't gotten any calls from Hollywood agents
12:28	jwagner	Who needs Hollywood? The WORLD is calling!!! At least the Koha world :-)
12:28	paul_p	'morning usa
12:29	jwagner	Bonjour France
12:30	\|Lupin\|	hi jwagner
12:30	jwagner	Hi \|Lupin\|
12:30	\|Lupin\|	paul_p: is there a more or less coherent frnech translation maintained for the development version of KOha, pls ?
12:30	paul_p	for 3.2 you mean ?
12:32	jwagner	Question for folks on reserves and old_reserves. It looks like when a hold is filled, the entry is moved from reserves to old_reserves, correct? The "Found" field in old_reserves seems to get an F code for that situation, and it looks like a W code for holds that are cancelled. Is there a list somewhere of all the possible codes and what they mean (for the Found field in old_reserves)?
12:33	chris_n	g'morning
12:34	\|Lupin\|	paul_p: yeah
12:34	paul_p	\|Lupin\|: ask hdl_laptop or laurence, but I don't think so
12:35	hdl_laptop	?
12:35	\|Lupin\|	hdl_laptop: I'm looking for an up-to-date translation for 3.2
12:36	gmcharlt	\|Lupin\|: one possibility would be to work with chris to get the French translation started for 3.2
12:36	\|Lupin\|	hdl_laptop: I have to set-up a developemnt Koha but 3.04 would not work I think because of missing columns in the db
12:36	hdl_laptop	hi \|Lupin\| no french ppl did this as far as i know
12:36	gmcharlt	porting the 3.0.x translation would cover most strings, although not all, of course
12:36	hdl_laptop	but 3.2 project is on pootle at the moment
12:37	\|Lupin\|	gmcharlt: I think it would be enough, at least for a starting point
12:37	hdl_laptop	So it is possible to take this as a start
12:37	hdl_laptop	hi gmcharlt
12:37	gmcharlt	hi hdl_laptop
12:37	\|Lupin\|	how can that be done ?
12:41	\|Lupin\|	hdl_laptop: ?
12:44	hdl_laptop	you can download the po file from translate.koha.org take the 3.1 3.2 versions
12:44	hdl_laptop	jwagner : i confirm that whe a reserve has been satisfied, it goes to old_reserves.
12:45	hdl_laptop	jwagner for a complete list,
12:45	\|Lupin\|	hdl_laptop: and then ? just save them at the right place in git and call install-code fr-FR?
12:45	hdl_laptop	see perldoc C4::Reserves
12:46	hdl_laptop	\|Lupin\|: yes
12:47	jwagner	hdl_laptop, thanks -- that's what I needed.
12:47	hdl_laptop	jwagner: The package is quite well documented
12:47	\|Lupin\|	hdl_laptop: thanks also :)
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13:04	\|Lupin\|	k, see you later all, bye
13:04		\|Lupin\| left #koha
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13:30	owen	Hi schuster
13:37	chris_n	hello owen
13:37	hdl_laptop	hi owen
13:37	chris_n	and hdl_laptop
13:38	owen	sigh
13:38	owen	Joshua would like us to please not release software with bugs.
13:39	owen	If only we'd known that before...
13:39	jwagner	Of course we all turn out perfect code every time, right? No problem!
13:39	hdl_laptop	koha 3 would never have come out
13:41	Ropuch	hehe
13:41	* paul_p	think USERS should answer to josh
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13:44	* owen	isn't sure anyone should answer him this time
13:44	paul_p	(at least not a vendor)
13:45	slef	yeah, because Ed's or Brooke's reply will be so diplomatic
13:48	slef	or shall I ask someone from the libraries hurt by the long 3.0 slip to reply?
13:48	slef	I'm really quite angry about that email, so I'm not going to reply during work time.
13:49	slef	hopefully someone else will before I do!
13:49	* chris_n	bites his tongue... hard
13:49	hdl_laptop	slef: long 3.0 slip... can you explain ?
13:49	slef	hdl_laptop: 1mo
13:50	hdl_laptop	do you mean the delay ?
13:50	owen	slef: do you mean the unexpected delay of the release of 3.0?
13:50	slef	yes
13:50	paul_p	you mean 3.0.0, right ?
13:50	slef	3.0.0 first announced as releasing by the end of 2006, actually released 11 Aug 2008.
13:51	slef	that was josh's last, wasn't it?
13:51	paul_p	slef++ (but I suggest not to go this way on the ML, because the answer will be "it was poor quality before, and, thanks us we worked hard to have something of good quality"
13:52	slef	yeah and then we go around the why-the-co-op-forked loop again
13:52	slef	checkmate in 3 moves
13:52	slef	so no, I'm not going that way.
13:53	slef	lunchtime in Somerset! bbl
13:53	paul_p	chris_n : seen your msg about pdf. You can speak with Kivutar (it's jean-andrÃ© nick on IRC) Although he didn't start to upgrade what I did previously (and that you can get on git.biblibre.com/biblibre_head)
13:53	paul_p	slef: bon appetit. Lunch is more than 1 hour away for us ;-)
13:55	hdl_laptop	git.biblibre.com/koha branch master
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14:06	schuster	sad... ;(
14:06	schuster	Just read some of the discussion as noted to above.
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14:11	jwagner	Stalking through the code, it looks like an acquisition claim email is generated immediately when someone clicks Claim (similar to a hold pickup email). Is that the case? It doesn't seem to require a cron job like overdue notices.
14:12	owen	Hi sekjal
14:12	sekjal	morning, owen
14:16		\|Lupin\| joined #koha
14:16	\|Lupin\|	hi again, all
14:16	\|Lupin\|	gmcharlt: around ?
14:17	sekjal	hi, \|Lupin\|
14:17	\|Lupin\|	hello sekjal
14:17	gmcharlt	\|Lupin\|: yes
14:17	\|Lupin\|	gmcharlt: I'm wondering: what's the preferred way of creating temporary files in Koha, pls ?
14:18	gmcharlt	\|Lupin\|: File::Temp
14:18	\|Lupin\|	gmcharlt: ok.
14:18	\|Lupin\|	gmcharlt: any funciton there ?
14:18	gmcharlt	there's an example in tools/picture-upload.pl
14:19	\|Lupin\|	gmcharlt: has KOha a well-defined temporary directory that could be used ? perhaps an example of code that is correctly written and could be used as a source of inspiration ?
14:19	\|Lupin\|	gmcharlt: perfect, thanks a lot
14:28	hdl_laptop	jwagner: yes
14:33	jwagner	Thanks again hdl_laptop
14:57	schuster	MYSQL question - I have been noticing these sessions lately when I run show processlist; that are hanging around for like 158 seconds.
14:57	schuster	Is there any way to determine what that is?
14:57	schuster	eventually they go away, but just odd to have something sit there that long.
14:59	paul_p	schuster: do you know EXPLAIN SELECT * FROM blabla ? that let you know the performance of a given query
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15:33	schuster	paul_p - nope so how would I know which blabla to look at?
15:34	owen	schuster: He just means put "EXPLAIN" before the SELECT you were doing
15:34	paul_p	schuster: just put EXPLAIN before any query
15:34	paul_p	you'll get an array, saying how many rows from each table mysql will parse
15:34	schuster	I wasn't doing a select - it just shows a process and there isn't a select after it so that's what the mystery is to determine "what" that process was doing.
15:35	paul_p	ah, ok. No idea
15:35	schuster	9302133 \| pisdadmin \| localhost \| koha_pisd \| Sleep \| 56 \| \| NULL when I do show processlist; that is what I get
15:36	paul_p	"Sleep " => probably a process waiting for something to do
15:36	paul_p	(mySQL start some process to have some free ones when needed)
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15:50	schuster	just came across this oddity - does anyone else have it? when you search &amp I get 82,000 hits in my catalog, but when you go to look at it to edit the record shows only &
15:50	schuster	A display problem?
15:52	owen	schuster: You're searching for "&amp" ?
15:53	sekjal	schuster: I get the same result
15:55	owen	Why search for "&amp" ?
15:57	schuster	I think someone was looking for Diane Goode's book of silly stories & songs / and came across Diane Goode's book of silly stories & songs /
15:58	schuster	So they searched for &amp and found "&amp" in the records
15:58	schuster	When I go to edit it in cataloging though it is just &
15:58	owen	it's a problem with the way the OPAC encodes the "&" and how the search link interprets it I think
15:58	schuster	Same results though in staff client
16:00	owen	I'm just not sure how they would have ended up seeing the "&"
16:00	sekjal	I get the same 19206 results when I search "&amp", "&amp", "&amp;amp;" etc.
16:00	sekjal	they do appear in a different relevancy order, though
16:00	owen	sekjal: You'll probably get the same result from searching for "amp" by itself.
16:01	sekjal	one different, but essentially, yes
16:01	sekjal	s/different/fewer/
16:02	owen	...but it's certainly not correct that a search for "amp" should return results containing "&"
16:02	schuster	when I search myacpl.org - with &amp the display is a little different it just has the &; rather than &
16:02	schuster	as mine does
16:02	sekjal	searching '&' yields no results for me
16:04	schuster	sekjal same here.
16:05	owen	Strangely on my test system I'm getting completely different results
16:06	owen	My searches for "&amp" return results starting with the title "Camp"
16:06	owen	...which seems correct to me.
16:07	owen	schuster: I'm still confused about how a search for "Diane Goode's book of silly stories & songs" would lead to a search containing "&"
16:10	gmcharlt	owen: overnormalization of & to the & XML entity
16:10	owen	Sure, but where?
16:10	gmcharlt	opac-search.pl or C4/Search.pm; probably not the browser
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16:12	owen	But what steps would one have to take to reproduce this problem? Searching for a title with "&" in it, then.... what?
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16:56	owen	Does unapi have to be turned on somehow?
16:59	sekjal	I found that doing a title phrase search for a known title phrase containing "&" yielded no results; Yet when I replace it with "amp", "&amp" or "&", I get my target record
17:00	sekjal	searching with "and" in place of "&" does not work, however
17:00	sekjal	I could see my catalogers getting upset about this one, once they find out
17:00	owen	http://acpl.kohalibrary.com/cg[…]l+%26+the+Yucatan
17:01	gmcharlt	owen: no, unapi is always on
17:01		sekjal left #koha
17:02	owen	gmcharlt: http://acpl.kohalibrary.com/cg[…]78&format=MARCXML
17:02	owen	A bug with our installation? Works fine on my test system.
17:02	owen	Unfortunately I don't have access to any logs on our production system.
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17:12	chris	grrrrrrrrr
17:12	cait_laptop	hi chris
17:12	cait_laptop	hi #koha
17:13	hdl_laptop	hi chris
17:13	chris	hi cait_laptop
17:13	paul_p	chris: keep quiet :D
17:13	chris	:)
17:13	chris	he is such a bully
17:13	paul_p	sorry, I wanted to say keep cool ;-)
17:14	chris	so much so, im not going to bother replying to his ridiculous email
17:14	paul_p	( but maybe it's good to stay quiet as well ;-) )
17:20		juan-xercode joined #koha
17:21	paul_p	bye #koha
17:21	paul_p	have a good day, evening, night or whatever you want/need depending on your TZ ;-)
17:22	cait_laptop	bye paul_p
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17:25	chris	not staying for meeting paul?
17:29	owen	...and Ben chimes in with a Very. Important. Question.
17:32	cait_laptop	hm reading mails
17:32		paul_p left #koha
17:33	hdl_laptop	owen : which question ? about 3.0.4_son_of_final ?
17:33		schuster left #koha
17:33	owen	Yes. I'm being sarcastic.
17:34	chris	ive just called him on his behaviour, not that i think it will stop it
17:35		schuster joined #koha
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18:10	chris	sigh
18:10	chris	its too early in the morning for this stuff
18:12	* cait_laptop	offers chris some virtual chocolate
18:12	chris	who brought the coffee?
18:12	chris	ohh chocolate, thanks :)
18:13	hdl_laptop	french coffe mug
18:15	chris	coffee and chocolate, all better :)
18:16	schuster	WHEW!
18:16	schuster	Where is the current 3.2 git? I just like to watch development happen.
18:16	chris	git.koha.org master branch
18:17		sekjal joined #koha
18:17	chris	heya sekjal :)
18:17	schuster	OK so nothing has happened with the branch since 2009-10-14?
18:17	chris	nope
18:17	schuster	There are two other branches there that people are working on so that was why I was confused.
18:18	schuster	http://git.koha.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi
18:18	hdl_laptop	schuster : biblibre is having its branch too based on master :
18:18	chris	yeah, when they are ready, they will be merged in (the biblibre acquisitions one)
18:18	sekjal	hi, chris.
18:19		juan-xercode left #koha
18:21	* sekjal	reads his email, winces, reads more
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18:25	sekjal	chris++
18:25	chris	heya russel :)
18:25	russel	hiya
18:26	chris	sekjal: thanks ... i fear i shouldnt have replied the first time though
18:29	sekjal	chris: maybe, maybe not. I think the thread has reached a point of clarity and understanding now, so hopefully things will be smoother from now on
18:31	chris	here's hoping
18:31	brendan	hi sekjal
18:31	sekjal	hey, brendan
18:31	brendan	hello richard
18:31	sekjal	brb; switching clients
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18:34	sekjal	there. mibbit was down for a while, it seems.
18:34	sekjal	either that, or my IT department is experimenting with blocking that, too
18:35	chris	heh
18:36	* owen	does xulrunner + Chatzilla
18:37	chris	i think its the ports that are blocked owen
18:38	owen	Lucky for me we don't have a network administrator ;)
18:39	sekjal	the external IT department here (I'm with the library's internal IT) is VERY strict with network security. Hospital records and all
18:41	chris	makes sense
18:41	chris	ssh out?
18:41	sekjal	chris: only over the VPN, and only then if your account is set up for it
18:42	sekjal	the strict NetSec policies were a contributing factor in our decision to leave our previous ILS vendor
18:42	chris	ahh
18:43	chris	there goes my ssh tunnel idea ;)
18:44	sekjal	I should spend more time configuring my home server to do neat things for me, but I am sadly without free time
18:44	slef	free time... I used to have some of that
18:45	* slef	checks lists and starts processing the Final Foundation Vote
18:49	* russel	does the school run, back soon
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18:51	chris	hi jwagner
18:54		jransom joined #koha
18:55	chris	morning jo
18:55	jransom	morning
18:55	chris_n	howdy jransom
18:58	jwagner	Hi chris
19:00	Ropuch	Good evening #koha
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19:03	thd	Is nengard expected?
19:03	slef	yes, I think so
19:03		irma joined #koha
19:03	slef	I'll be here just as soon as I'm done running the voteengine
19:03	chris	im not sure that she is, i think she is in california still
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19:05	brendan	I'm not so sure -- she is down in the LA area
19:05		collum joined #koha
19:05	hdl_laptop	hi
19:05	IrmaCalyx	G'day
19:06	thd	who will be conducting the meeting?
19:07	slef	I thought that was a reason for this time.
19:07	jransom	Is Rachel here, as the Kaiwhakahaere
19:07	slef	hdl_laptop: do you know if nengard will be here?
19:07	jransom	(and yes I know she is logged in :)
19:07	chris	slef: im 99% sure she wont
19:07	slef	is this a work thing or a personal thing? ;-)
19:07	jransom	ok.
19:08	hdl_laptop	brendan should know better than me.
19:08	jransom	so with no Nicole or Rach, we need to find a scrum manager for this meeting
19:08	slef	ok, so shall we go on anyway and who wants to chair? Now that the votes have taken place, I think I don't have a prohibitive conflict any more.
19:08	hdl_laptop	And if he says he is not sure.
19:08	chris	i vote slef to chair
19:08	chris_n	+1
19:08	jransom	second slef
19:09	slef	ok, let me dig my desktop out from under these windows... any dissenters?
19:09	gmcharlt	+1 for slef running it
19:09	hdl_laptop	note me
19:09	hdl_laptop	not me
19:09	hdl_laptop	slef++
19:10	slef	ok, the agenda is at http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?[…]etingnotes09oct29
19:10	slef	who will summarise?
19:10	russel	back
19:10	slef	someone, please?
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19:10	slef	someone to summarise the meeting onto the wiki when we're done?
19:10	thd	I will
19:10	slef	thanks thd
19:11	slef	ok, who's here? I'm MJ Ray (slef), a member of software.coop
19:11	brendan	no nengard for the meeting
19:11	thd	late tonight
19:11	chris	chris cormack, translation manager, catalyst it
19:11	slef	thd: that's fine
19:11	cait_laptop	Katrin Fischer, BSZ Germany
19:11	jwagner	Jane Wagner, PTFS
19:11	brendan	brendan gallagher - ByWater Solutions
19:11	jransom	Joann Ransom, Horowhenua Library Trust, NZ
19:11	sekjal	Ian Walls, NYU Health Sciences Libraries
19:11	russel	russel garlick, catalyst IT
19:11	nicomo	Nicolas Morin, BibLibre
19:11	Nate	Nate Curulla ByWater Solutions
19:11	Ropuch	Piotr Wejman, CSNE LIbrary, Poland
19:11	chris_n	Chris Nighswonger, FBC
19:11	IrmaCalyx	I am here and awake (6.10 am in Sydney)
19:11	rhcl	Greg Lawson Rolling Hills Consolidated Libary
19:12	thd	Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
19:12	gmcharlt	Galen Charlton, ESI, 3.2 RM
19:12	slef	ok - anyone else can announce themselves when they remember :)
19:12	slef	1. Conclusion from the final foundation forming vote.
19:12	owen	Owen Leonard, Nelsonville Public Library
19:12	hdl_laptop	Henri-Damien LAURENT, BibLibre, Montpellier
19:13	slef	I've got the vote results and I've run Q1 through the voteengine.
19:13	chris	nicole sends her apologies she is on a bus at the moment
19:13	slef	By all measures except one so far, HLT wins the "first step" vote.
19:13	rhcl	jdavidb is on a plane back to Maryland ATT
19:13	slef	The one measure which didn't result in HLT (borda) results in an unresolved tie.
19:13	thd	which is the one?
19:13	slef	sorry, borda-elim
19:14	slef	I'll post the analysis Real Soon Now. Are there any other comments on the vote?
19:14	thd	yes
19:14	slef	thd first: please go ahead
19:14	owen	slef++ # for working on the analysis
19:14	slef	anyone else, just raise your hand to go next
19:15	thd	I think that many people especially outside the US wanted to affiliate with IFLA in addition to the other options
19:15	schuster	David Schuster - Plano ISD, TX USA
19:15	thd	the ballot did not really ask about IFLA to elicit that
19:16	thd	however, it was in many comments from the first survey
19:16	chris	that sounds to me more like a question for the long term foundation
19:16	slef	I think that's fair comment and something to bear in mind at each step onwards.
19:16	jransom	nods
19:16	thd	chris is probably right
19:17	thd	it is not something which needs to be addressed immediately
19:17	sekjal	does proceeding with HLT close off any possibilities of affliating with IFLA down the road?
19:18	thd	sekjal: It should not
19:18	slef	point of information: I think the preference rankings were: Q1: HLT > SPI > SFC > IFLA > NONE; Q2: KOHA > LIB > HLT > SPI > SFC > IFLA > NO
19:18	slef	wait a mo
19:18	slef	any more comments before we move onto 2. What do we do next?
19:18	thd	yes
19:18	slef	ok
19:18	chris	the good thing with HLT is it doesnt really close off any possibilities
19:19	chris_n	true
19:19	thd	could we not consider that we have an absolute majority of completed votes for HLT?
19:19	chris	for short term ?
19:19	schuster	Plus in my opinion gives it some Validity in "ownership" since they "originated" the project.
19:20	thd	and also for Koha foundation in Q2?
19:20	slef	do we? I'm not seeing that in the analysis but maybe I'm reading them wrong
19:20	thd	yes short and long term respectively
19:20	slef	for Q1 anyway
19:20	jransom	I think the results look clear
19:21	thd	slef: I did not check Q2 so maybe not Q2
19:21	slef	I see a winning margin of 78 for HLT in Q1 out of 157
19:21	chris_n	slef: I thought the results looked clear
19:21	slef	and a winning margin of 68 out of 156 in Q2
19:22	chris	for new foundation?
19:22	slef	for KOHA, yes, sorry
19:22	chris_n	Q1 => short term and Q2 => long term.... right?
19:22	chris	yes
19:22	slef	and yes
19:22	thd	However, if you do not count noncompeted votes for the first rank in Q! then there is an absolute majority
19:22	slef	I've excluded votes with no email address - isn't that how to spot completed?
19:22	chris_n	yes
19:23	slef	anyway, by almost any measure, it's Q1: HLT and Q2: KOHA
19:23	chris	that was the conclusion i had drawn also
19:23	jransom	+1
19:23	chris_n	and I
19:23	thd	yes that is agreed, I hoped it could be expressed even more clearly
19:23	russel	+1
19:23	slef	and the benefit of the ranking is that a run-off election wouldn't change that
19:23	slef	it's pretty close
19:24	slef	ok, any more comments on the vote or move on?
19:24	thd	sorry that I ran out of time to raise the absolute majority examination on the mailing list
19:24	slef	moving on...
19:25	slef	2. What do we do next? 2.1 Legal issues and procedures. I guess this means: how do we give HLT koha?
19:25	slef	who wants this? jransom? chris?
19:25	chris	i suspect HLT needs to ask
19:25	thd	It also means what does HLT do to receive Koha.
19:26	russel	i think what jransom proposed in her email to the list about making contact is the first step
19:26	chris_n	I'd think the vote is the offer to give
19:26	chris	yeah, i agree with russel
19:26		jransom left #koha
19:26	slef	heh, timing!
19:26	chris	heh
19:26	russel	:-)
19:26	chris_n	lol
19:26	IrmaCalyx	Is there a time limit on the affiliation of Koha with HLT Foundation?
19:27	chris	?
19:27	chris	not as far as i know
19:27		jransom joined #koha
19:27	slef	time limit from whom?
19:27	chris_n	not unless we make one
19:27	chris	i guess as long as its needed
19:27	owen	Would each person with assets to transfer need their own individual agreement with HLT?
19:27	chris	owen: probably
19:27	IrmaCalyx	ok
19:27		richard joined #koha
19:27	richard	hi
19:28	owen	In that case, who draws up the agreement? Is each agreement the same?
19:28	slef	jransom: can you tell us how to give HLT (more) control of Koha?
19:28	slef	owen: can we deal with asset transfer in a mo, please?
19:28	jransom	I'm thinking ...
19:28	jransom	carry on - and I'll wave a hand
19:28	slef	let's get the basic step done first before the nitty gritty
19:28	* russel	wasnt sure this was about giving HLT more control of koha, i thought it was about giving the community more control over koha
19:28	jransom	nods
19:28	chris	+!
19:28	slef	russel: with HLT as the community's proxy at first
19:28	thd	IrmaCalyx: There is no absolute time limit but merely a practical one when there is the will and resource to create an independent foundation.
19:29	owen	sorry slef I'm just trying to understand in general what the process needs to be
19:29	jransom	the trustee 'need' the authority of the community to secure the community assets
19:29	chris_n	russel: I think that is what is meant
19:29	jransom	I think that is the first, and maybe only job to concentrate on
19:29	slef	jransom: so maybe some request signed by rach, RMs, nengard and whoever else we can muster, indicating the voters who request it?
19:29	chris	im not sure i see hlt exerting anymore control, more just stopping others
19:30	chris	ie holding the community assets in safe hands
19:30	jransom	I think the poll results, and a resolution from this meeting authorising HLT to enter into negotiations with whoever about finding a way o secure community assets.
19:30	chris	sounds like a good step forward to me
19:30	russel	jransom: sounds good to me
19:31	russel	slef: i think that what you have suggested is the next step if there is no response
19:31	jransom	then we bring the negotiated proposal/s back to the community for endorsement
19:31	slef	ok, so the question is "those present resolve to authorise HLT to enter into negotiations about finding ways to secure koha community assets" - anyone want to speak for or against it?
19:31	thd	call the question
19:32	chris	table the motion :)
19:32	slef	ok, who is for this?
19:32	chris_n	+1
19:32	chris	aye
19:32	jransom	+1
19:32	russel	+1
19:32	thd	aye
19:32	cait_laptop	+1
19:32	sekjal	aye
19:32	schuster	+1
19:32	rhcl	+1
19:32	IrmaCalyx	+1
19:32	slef	chris: I think table means shelve to the USA.
19:32	Ropuch	+1
19:32	Nate	+1
19:32	nicomo	+1
19:32	slef	any -1s or 0s?
19:32	owen	+1
19:32	chris_n	chris: what slef said
19:33	schuster	slef chris yes that's what table means by roberts rules.
19:33	chris	ahh, different meaning here
19:33	thd	chris: does table not mean shelve in NZ and call the question not an immediate vote?
19:33	slef	ok, I'm +1 too. Anyone who wants to vote later, please add it to the wiki.
19:33	russel	err vote later?
19:33	jransom	Is it the will of the community that we work towards a date for end of negotiations?
19:34	chris_n	slef: I'd think the vote would end at this meeting
19:34	richard	+1
19:34	chris_n	jransom: +1
19:34	slef	ok, I'm overruled. Anyone who wants to vote later, please put "Q2.1 +1" or similar for -1/0 in IRC before the close.
19:34	slef	fun fun fun
19:35	jransom	and heres fair warning, I will stick to a date ... no pony trading and game playing afterwards.
19:35	chris_n	jransom++
19:35	slef	right, jransom what date, do you know?
19:35	slef	or just one announced?
19:35	brendan	+1
19:35	jransom	trustees meeting next thursday 5th nov.
19:35	jransom	they have a paper for discussions
19:36	jransom	i have inititaed contact with joshua and it is pleasant
19:36	IrmaCalyx	jransom: and then the next meeting ?
19:36	chris_n	jransom: do they meet monthly
19:36	gmcharlt	belated +1
19:36	hdl_laptop	Q2.1 +1
19:36	slef	ok... let's see how that goes
19:36	thd	I think it is a mistake to cancel a negotiation by a particular date if genuine progress seems apparent
19:36	jransom	the last thursday in november
19:36	schuster	jransom - do you know all of the players that need to be contacted? You will need time to draft a letter, send it to the parties involved and wait for a response.
19:36	IrmaCalyx	Does HLT meet in December? January?
19:36	jransom	but they will meet earlier as i request
19:37	jransom	thd: but people can spin things on for ever with no intention of ever settling. I'm not mucking around with this.
19:37	chris	i think we need to be flexible, but we also need to be able to call BS when it is apparent progress is not being made
19:37	thd	jransom: you have to be the judge of genuine progress
19:37	slef	or cut our losses, at least.
19:37	chris	nod
19:37	jransom	yes, yes and yes :)
19:37	thd	jransom ... to avoid that very problem
19:37	jransom	how about you gve me a month
19:38	slef	I think jransom should pick the timeline and just announce it.
19:38	jransom	and then we decide, based on my gut feeling, if another month would be productive time?
19:38	chris_n	slef++
19:38	jransom	i would like it resolved quite quickly. there are no surporiuses here
19:38	cait_laptop	jransom+
19:38	thd	I suggest reporting the state of negotiations which have not completed by some date and indicating prospects
19:38	jransom	everuone knows whats happening, what the requests will be,
19:39	chris	nod
19:39	slef	ok, shall we move on to 2.2 Discussion of guarantees? Whose is this?
19:39	chris	its not like its coming out of the blue
19:39	schuster	jransom - I believe whoever is running the "request" will have a good idea on if people are acting in good faith or being difficult after you have been in contact with them 2-3 times.
19:39	sekjal	so, just to reiterate:
19:39	jransom	answers can only be : yes, no and 'heres my price'
19:39	thd	slef: I drafted the agenda initially in the absence of nengard
19:39	slef	thd: OK. I'll ask you about it once sekjal finishes.
19:40	slef	sekjal: please go on
19:40	sekjal	the community is agreeing to give HLT 1 month from this date for negotiations
19:40	sekjal	and up to one month more, if negotiations in in progress 1 month from now?
19:41	chris_n	sekjal: I think we are giving HLT the authority to make the call as they see fit
19:41	slef	personally, I'm happy with that, but I lean towards HLT deciding the timeline.
19:41	slef	jransom: any reply?
19:41	jransom	but, we will meet back in 1 month to assess progress. either call it quits or take another month.
19:42	chris	+1
19:42	chris_n	+1
19:42	sekjal	chris_n: okay
19:42	sekjal	+1
19:42	Ropuch	+1
19:42	slef	ok. everyone, start checking your calendars for 1 month's time ready for the end of the meeting
19:42	rhcl	+1
19:42	thd	I agree with slef that HLT will be in the best position to assess a reasonable timeline
19:42	jransom	(Kiwis don't like mucking about)
19:42	nicomo	+1
19:42	IrmaCalyx	that is a sound plan
19:42	slef	thd: can you introduce "2.2 discussion of guarantees" please?
19:43	thd	slef: some such as yourself wanted to know about asset locks and similar guarantees
19:43	jransom	can i ask that i be fed through the contact details d details of everone we need to negotiate with please
19:43	slef	oh yes... an unresolved pair of questions about HLT from the fact-finding
19:44	slef	good catch thd!
19:44	jransom	and asset details
19:44	slef	jransom: is HLT legally capable of selling assets that it holds? If so, are there restrictions of transferring assets out of NZ if a future Koha foundation isn't NZ-based?
19:44	slef	Does that cover it?
19:44	thd	so there are some issues for consideration perhaps some will want a letter when giving assets stating that they are held for the Koha community in some formal legalistic way.
19:45	thd	jransom: post the link to the charter
19:45	hdl_laptop	+1
19:45	jransom	http://kete.library.org.nz/tru[…]/39-deed-of-trust
19:45	jransom	this is or trust deed.
19:45	jransom	wcan bud sell wha like towhomevwe lke
19:45	jransom	yuck - sorry wireless keyboard
19:46	jransom	we can buy and sell whatever we like
19:46	slef	For those unfamiliar with an asset lock, it's explained a little in http://www.businesslink.gov.uk[…]itemId=1077475743
19:46	thd	the purposes of the trust seem to have some limit on any real problems
19:47	chris	?
19:47	thd	there should also be some provision for what if something happens to HLT outside anyone's control
19:47	chris	im not parsing that thd
19:47	slef	sorry, I'm waiting for that PDF to download NZ-England :-/
19:47	slef	anyone else got questions/comments?
19:47	chris	thd: like an act of parliament?
19:47	thd	Katipo once had a slide about the Katipo excursion with everyone in the bus
19:48	jransom	ok.
19:48	thd	there should be some provision for the unthinkable.
19:48	jransom	in the event the trust winds up the assets have to be given to a similar minded nonprofit
19:49	chris	maybe a letter frm hlt saying
19:49	chris_n	jransom: is there any in or out of country restriction?
19:49	thd	jransom: there should be a guarantee that the similar minded non-profit would be at the direction of the Koha community
19:49	jransom	i would expect, but we should have confirmed in writing, that the koha community assets be transferred to another koha community org
19:49	jransom	no country restrictions
19:49	chris	we are grateful of the trust put in us by the community, we promise to hold them in trust yadda yadda
19:49	chris	?
19:50	jransom	yep
19:50	rhcl	I'm confused. So once a bus with everybody from Katipo slid off a road? Does Katipo - HLT?
19:50	jransom	sounds very reasonable
19:50		Sharon joined #koha
19:50	chris	rhcl: no
19:50	thd	rhcl: It was a hypothetical
19:50	chris	rhcl: thd is refering to a slide i used to explain why hlt and katipo decided to gpl koha
19:50	rhcl	OK. got it
19:50	slef	ok, finished reading
19:50	slef	http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?TruckNumber I think the above is about
19:50	chris	so that if katipo went poof they werent locked in without support
19:51	jransom	i should think the trustees will want to consider setting up a sub committee of koha folk to 'do' this koha work.
19:51	slef	and I think a basic letter would cover it.
19:51	chris	cool
19:51	jransom	and there will be a MOU
19:51	jransom	rules of engagement if you like
19:51	thd	MOU?
19:51	jransom	sound reasonable?
19:51	slef	ok, can we talk about the memorandum of understanding a bit more in a mo?
19:51	jransom	memorandum of understanding
19:51	chris_n	Memoradum of Understanding
19:52	wizzyrea	(sorry I'm late, was at a koha related meeting :))
19:52	slef	2.3 Assignment of trademarks and domains. Is this all left to HLT's discretion now? Is HLT happy with that? Do we want to offer more instruction?
19:52	chris_n	thd: the US gov't has MOU's with entities such as the Red Cross, etc
19:52	chris_n	a sort of formal informality
19:52	slef	I know I'm one of the worst offenders, but can we keep the TLAs out as much as possible?
19:52	chris	tla?
19:52	slef	companies, assets and trusts have enough jargon already
19:53	slef	Three Letter Acronyms
19:53	chris	righto
19:53	jransom	the trustees will almost certainly not want to accept or finalise any deals without running past the commnity first
19:53	chris	i think the subcommittee idea has merit
19:53	chris_n	+1
19:53		tajoli joined #koha
19:53	russel	+1
19:53	chris	i think that jo needs to take this back to the trustees, at the meeting
19:53	jransom	the question will be whether i should influence themmto set up the subcommittee to do the negotiations under the trust name and with their authoruty behind them
19:54	thd	chris: did you mean committee or subcommittee?
19:54	slef	ok, so shall we postpone this are we willing to pay/buy/license to a future meeting?
19:54	chris	and then report back
19:54	chris_n	slef: i think so
19:54	jransom	or whether we let the trustees secure the assets through negotiation, then set up sub committee to go forward with
19:54		CGI884 joined #koha
19:54	jransom	which is the least 'inflaming' option
19:54	chris	that might work better
19:54	chris_n	jransom: the second appears better
19:54		CGI884 left #koha
19:55	chris_n	least-inflaming++
19:55	slef	"3. Scope of activities" has been covered in our request a bit. Any more comments or questions about this?
19:55	jransom	yep - i prefer that too.
19:55		CGI028 joined #koha
19:55	jransom	1 step at a time
19:55	schuster	Yes I think letting HLT do the initial run is better as it keep the community and feelings out of the mix.
19:56	jransom	it will probably be Sharon Crosbie who doe sthe negitiating, the Chair of the Trust. no background or history
19:56	thd	That is exactly why HLT has been a good choice.
19:56	chris_n	jransom: excellent
19:56	jransom	Harvard graduate - so knows american style a bit too
19:56	CGI028	how do u hop servers
19:56	chris_n	heh
19:56		CGI028 is now known as limey
19:56	chris	limey, we are in a meeting at the moment
19:57	jransom	CG1028: having a meeting now my friend, can you wait for a bit?
19:57	chris	give us a few mintues, and we will be free to answer questions
19:57	limey	ok bro
19:57	limey	what is this lmfao
19:57	slef	where are we in the meeting?
19:57		limey left #koha
19:57	jransom	ok - I have a clear understanding of what HLT need to do next
19:58	thd	slef: either c. or 3.
19:58	jransom	do I have an 'executive' or subgroup of koha community contact who i can ask questions of?
19:58	thd	slef: either 2c. or 3.
19:58	thd	slef: either 2.III,c. or 3.
19:58	jransom	otherwise I'll just ask Chris Cormack
19:58	chris_n	+1 for chris
19:59	chris	gah
19:59	slef	anyone got thoughts on this? We could use koha-manage but eeergh
19:59	chris_n	heh
19:59	chris	+1 for someone else
19:59	chris	:)
19:59	chris	my brain hurts
19:59	brendan	no koha-manage
19:59	thd	jransom: as much as possible I would like to see issues discussed on the mailing list
19:59	jransom	yep - sound principle.
19:59	thd	the public mailing list
19:59	chris_n	thd++
20:00	slef	mailing lists aren't executive
20:00	chris_n	maybe the current version position holders?
20:00	chris_n	ie RM, etc
20:00	slef	jransom wants some person(s) who can make a decision I think
20:00	thd	however, do not spoil negotiations by revealing the wrong things too openly.
20:00	chris_n	they are already community appointed positions
20:00	jransom	more a advise role i think
20:00	jransom	a second opinion
20:00	slef	gmcharlt hdl_laptop rach who else?
20:00	jransom	advise to trustees
20:00	jransom	if theyt get stuck
20:00	schuster	Ah - no koha-manage
20:01	chris	nengard and i are the other 2 elected roles
20:01	chris_n	chris as TM
20:01	jransom	and want an opinion
20:01	slef	jransom: but presumably having 171 different opinions isn't OK?
20:01	chris	but yeah, koha-manage--
20:01	jransom	thats right
20:01	hdl_laptop	ca at biblibre dot com ?
20:01	chris	that list must die
20:01	jransom	1 - 3 max
20:01	* owen	agrees: koha-manage--
20:01	jransom	and confidential, loads of wisdom and history
20:01	hdl_laptop	paul_p nicomo and I
20:01	chris_n	there appear to be a total of 5 current position holders?
20:01	brendan	elected positions seems to be the best
20:01	thd	I question whether the software project leaders should be necessarily presumed to be the Koha community leaders on other questions
20:02	slef	personally, if ca at biblibre, I'm going to suggest info at software.coop too, in an act of blatent self-promotion
20:02	schuster	hdl_laptop or paul? - slef?
20:02	slef	chris_n: can you enumerate them?
20:02	hdl_laptop	oh sorry
20:02	IrmaCalyx	jransom: Bob @ CALYX has lots of business and people experience
20:02	chris	thd: there are no koha community leaders, thats the point
20:02	hdl_laptop	I think I misunderstood
20:03	thd	brendon: The role to which the release manager etc. were elected is different from the role about which jransom is asking
20:03		Gary joined #koha
20:03	hdl_laptop	bob++
20:03	slef	thd: I think RMs and Kaitiaki have historical weight, but this is chicken-and-egg.
20:03	thd	chris: yes but we should not presume that we have already identified them
20:03	jransom	and Chris (even though you are grumpy today you have a sound understanding of people and the community)
20:03	* owen	has to leave. Feel free to draft me in my absence if I can be useful
20:03	slef	is it time for a quick election?
20:03		owen left #koha
20:03	chris_n	RM gmcharlt, Releas M: hdl, TM chris, DM, nengard, and rhcl
20:04	* brendan	throws his hat in the ring
20:04	thd	Long term there should be more of a role for users.
20:04	rhcl	rhcl????
20:04	schuster	Personally as I think about this the current 3.2 release group would be good as they represent people from all over except possibly slef.
20:04	brendan	agreed bob++ chris++
20:04	jransom	yep - this is a short term, 1 month, advisory role if trust want more info but don't want to go public during private negotiations
20:05	jransom	Bob and Chris?
20:05	chris_n	I'
20:05	chris_n	I'd like to see gmcharlt on board for the month if he will agree
20:05	slef	ok, we have a propsal for bob and chris
20:05	jransom	This is NOT the sub committee
20:05	IrmaCalyx	Bob is ok to advise Joe
20:05	gmcharlt	+1 to Bob and Chris
20:05	* russel	has to leave to - nice work as the chair slef, thank you
20:05	slef	chris: are you willing to accept the nomination?
20:05		russel left #koha
20:05	gmcharlt	I am also willing to provide advice
20:06	chris	yep, bob + galen + myself
20:06	IrmaCalyx	gmcharlt +1
20:06	slef	ok, bob, chris and gmcharlt ?
20:06	chris	hows that sound?
20:06	chris_n	+1
20:06	slef	Anyone against?
20:06	schuster	1+
20:06	cait_laptop	+1
20:06	hdl_laptop	gmcharlt++
20:06	sekjal	+1
20:06	jransom	brendan offered
20:06	brendan	+1
20:06	IrmaCalyx	+1
20:06	richard	+1
20:06	Ropuch	+1
20:06	Gary	+1 galen
20:06	slef	we have a +1 from brendan
20:06	schuster	BibLibre ok with that group?
20:06	jransom	Brendan: you ok?
20:06	brendan	more experience in the long history of koha by that group IMO
20:06	hdl_laptop	yes.
20:06	jransom	ok - 3 is grand.
20:06	slef	schuster: hdl_laptop +1d
20:07	slef	ok, I think the detail of the subcommittee control procedures should wait for now. Is that OK with everyone?
20:07	jransom	ok, so noone is feeling leftout and aggrieved then :)
20:07	schuster	Thank you jransom...
20:07	brendan	:)
20:07	chris_n	slef: agreed
20:07	jransom	yes : re subcommittee.
20:07	chris	no one who came to the meeting anyway jransom :)
20:07	thd	hdl_laptop: so you are happy with those 3?
20:08	jransom	i will bring back trustees thoughts on the sub committee
20:08	chris	chris-- #stop being grumpy
20:08	munin	chris: Error: You're not allowed to adjust your own karma.
20:08	slef	ok thanks
20:08	chris_n	munin: lol
20:08	thd	aye
20:08	munin	chris_n: Error: "lol" is not a valid command.
20:08	slef	5. Long term considerations
20:08	schuster	jransom - only if they feel they need it.
20:08	slef	Anyone want to flag something up at this meeting, or wait for the subcommittee details?
20:08	hdl_laptop	thd: yes I am
20:09	chris_n	I say we wait
20:09	chris	i think wait for details
20:09	slef	We've already heard about IFLA affiliation alongside other hosting.
20:09	thd	slef did we miss part of 4?
20:09		pianohacker joined #koha
20:09	chris_n	I think that was 4
20:09	slef	thd: I think 4 is postponed.
20:09	pianohacker	hey, #koha
20:09	thd	OK
20:09	chris_n	pianohacker: meeting time
20:10	slef	thd: for now, it was appointing the bob, chris and gmcharlt.
20:10	slef	ok, postponing long term considerations to next meeting.
20:10	thd	there may be one issue
20:10	slef	thd: ok go on
20:10	thd	for 4 which we should consider
20:11	thd	those with whom a negotiation is being conducted may like to know what type of organisation they will be giving assets.
20:11	thd	beyond HLT
20:12	chris	oh god
20:12	nicomo	thd: why?
20:12	chris_n	I think not at the present moment
20:12	chris	the perfect stalling tactic
20:12	chris_n	HLT == Koha for them
20:12	thd	If it comes up in negotiations then the issue can be revisited
20:12	slef	well, HLT's involvement puts certain constraints on that by virtue of transferring to other non-profit charities and so on.
20:12	chris_n	the long term may become long
20:13	slef	I'd be surprised if that was raised, but I guess I'm often surprised.
20:13	jransom	we can sell / gift / trade to anyone
20:13	jransom	if we wind up we HAVE togift to non profit
20:13		francharb left #koha
20:14	chris	we cant go with a short term solution until we know the long term one, i fear that card will be played
20:14	Ropuch	Chris is right
20:14	jransom	thats bullshit chris
20:14	thd	Once we have assets we would need a procedure for using them for community benefit
20:14	jransom	we have to do the short term one
20:14	sekjal	so, can we officially state that we are going with HLT indefinitely?
20:14	slef	I don't really want to reread that blurry PDF. Wasn't there stuff about powers and purposes in it?
20:14	IrmaCalyx	that card could be played :(
20:14	schuster	Long term concerns - being a technological group - I think plans should be considered on how to "manage" these assetts and if those that are currently managing them are willing to continue with an open community concept - ie access to servers by outsiders.
20:14	slef	sekjal: that wasn't the vote AFAICT
20:15	thd	reluctant givers may wish to have an idea about the procedure for use.
20:15	jransom	if it has to stay with hLT through community indecision then that will work
20:15	chris	schuster: i see that as the role of the subcommittee if/when one is convened
20:15	slef	please can we keep the language toned down to typical daytime broadcast level? Thanks.
20:15	chris_n	I think we cross one bridge at a time
20:15	thd	slef: yes purposes and powers are there
20:15	sekjal	slef: I'm meaning indefinite as 'no definitive timeframe set'
20:15	chris	schuster: to my mind that is the main need for HLT to be involved is to restore community access
20:15	jransom	I apologise unreservedly for my language
20:15	schuster	ok - just throwing it out there since HLT is asking for stuff.
20:15	slef	sekjal: ok, sorry. English is broken.
20:16		rhcl is now known as rhcl_away
20:17	slef	right, any other comments on long-term concerns?
20:17	chris	schuster: well the community is asking HLT to ask for stuff, i bet HLT would rather not have to deal with this at all
20:17	chris	i know i would
20:17	schuster	I suspect through negotiations many questions will come up -
20:17	jransom	ok - hang on.
20:17	slef	I'm not sure we can resolve the long-term plan if anyone asks... either the giver can try to constrain it, or it's a stalling tactic and time to walk away, but HLT and advisers can decide.
20:18	chris	slef++
20:18	slef	jransom: hanging on you
20:18	jransom	lets say I am theroetically asked about the long term business plan for the koha community, now that HLT is THE koha nonprofit. and thus worthy / appropriate recipients of community assets
20:18	chris_n	slef: right
20:18	schuster	slef++
20:18	nicomo	and if we had the long term plan ready already, no short time plan would be needed, would it?
20:19	schuster	hard to negotiate a long term plan when things are in place and we don't know what the asset holders will propose when asked.
20:19	thd	nicomo: a short term plan would be needed as a transition
20:19	jransom	because, there already is a koha nonprofit set up in the states.
20:19	chris_n	the legitimacy of the motive of most questions in this regard is probably questionable at this point
20:19	slef	jransom: I think the long term plan is to spin out into its own independent organisation developed in consultation with the user and developer community.
20:19	jransom	by its nature, planning for the long haul.
20:19	schuster	is there a US non profit for Koha established?
20:20	slef	jransom: I feel that nonprofit could be the Ohio one, or it might not. It all depends on what happens.
20:20	IrmaCalyx	One is always in a short plan situation (until that changes...)
20:20	slef	schuster: yes, see wiki link to the Ohio business department.
20:20	thd	;)
20:20	slef	schuster: no-one knows its bylaws. I think the names of liblime and its lawyer are linked to it.
20:20	chris_n	the ohio nonprofit is a one-man show imho
20:21	chris	i think that might be another reason given not to transfer assets to hlt
20:21	slef	chris_n: we have almost no data.
20:21	chris	but a ksf already exists
20:21	chris	just something to bear in mind, because without doubt it isnt a valid objection
20:21		Nate left #koha
20:21	slef	yes, it exists but does not function, which is why we're here
20:21	chris	exactly
20:21		Nate joined #koha
20:22	slef	If someone pulls a rabbit out of that hat and prevents all of us and HLT doing more work by presenting the perfect answer, then hooray.
20:22	chris	:-)
20:22	thd	:)
20:22	chris_n	we are really second-guessing and speculating at this point
20:22	slef	Until then, we must continue
20:22	jransom	ok. but the founders of that trust can and probably will ask the question about why our short term solution has more credibilkity than its specially set up trust.
20:22	chris	its true chris_n
20:22	slef	but this is the chair speaking too much again...
20:23	jransom	ok - lets see how we go and tackle the issues as and if they arise
20:23	chris_n	jransom: we should burn that bridge when we come to it
20:23	jransom	lol
20:23	chris	i think slef gave the answer jransom , it isnt actually functioning
20:23	thd	jransom: I did not understand your previous statement
20:23	thd	about will ask the question
20:24	thd	OK now I understand
20:24	slef	jransom: well, if someone had set up the Trust for Horowhenua Libraries but it was completely secret and inactive, would that prevent HLT functioning?
20:24	jransom	if I was joshua and had established a trust for koha, and owned assets,
20:24	* chris_n	thinks the community ultimately has greater inertia than one man or his business
20:24	slef	please, hold assets, not owned ;-)
20:25	jransom	it is reasonable to want to know the plans of the 'new' trust, a short solution, is theebesttplace for them...
20:25	jransom	just warning of alternative viewpoints
20:25	brendan	does a filed document for ksf in ohio really = foundation -- or is just intent to form
20:26	slef	jransom: I'll take this up with you after.
20:26	jransom	slef: cool
20:26	slef	brendan: good question. It would need someone who knows Ohio's laws, charges and habits to say more.
20:26	chris_n	I move we move on to the next point of business :-)
20:27	wizzyrea	most foundations need a board of directors to function.
20:27	slef	like, has that KSF cost anyone anything significant yet?
20:27	brendan	we were going to talk with our lawyers to see if that is true
20:27	brendan	should we move forward with that?
20:27	sekjal	is there anyone associated with the Ohio KSF who can communicate with the community?
20:27	chris	liblime's lawyer?
20:27	slef	brendan: please, if you have capacity.
20:27	chris	thats who's name is on the paper
20:27	slef	sekjal: liblime and their lawyer?
20:28	jransom	would be helpful to know more
20:28	slef	brendan +1
20:28	brendan	ok -- we'll let everyone know what we find
20:28	chris	+1 also
20:28	chris	thank you
20:28	sekjal	some attempt to contact the Ohio KSF should probably be made, for due diligence
20:28	chris_n	+1
20:28	sekjal	yes, brendan++
20:28	IrmaCalyx	brendan: if you like I can ask my brother in law who is an attorney in Chicago Ill.
20:28	sekjal	remove the "we were never even contacted!" card from the deck
20:29	slef	moving on to 6. Agree time of next foundation meeting. jransom: would you like 1 month exact or a bit more/less?
20:29	gmcharlt	IrmaCalyx: and licensed to practice in Ohio?
20:29	thd	exact would be a Sunday
20:29	wizzyrea	maybe Owen's library has a lawyer they could ask?
20:29	IrmaCalyx	gmcharlt: I can ask him as I am not sure
20:29	slef	wizzyrea: nice drafting of owen!
20:30	chris_n	wizzyrea: how ironic that would be
20:30	schuster	That may be an "organisation" that jransom and HLT needs to contact.
20:30	* wizzyrea	recognizes the irony. le sigh.
20:30	hdl_laptop	thanks brendan
20:30	jransom	more or less
20:31	slef	ok, are Sundays a problem for people? I'm minded to launch a poll within 24 hours with a few times to try to find the maximum attendance because I think there's strength in numbers for this topic. But we can fix a time now if people wish
20:31	chris_n	slef: depends on the time
20:31	chris	i remember back in the day, in ohio with joshua, stephen and owen, laughing and looking forward to the future ... it was only 2002 but it seems a lifetime ago now
20:31	slef	(we're much fewer than 150 people here, which would seem to be the theoretical maximum from the voters)
20:32	sekjal	Nov. 29th is the end of holiday weekend in the US
20:32	* chris_n	wonders where the others are
20:32	jransom	personally reluctant about sundays - but american sundays are our mondays :)
20:32	chris	:)
20:32	chris	yeah my wife would have me say not weekends if possible
20:32	jransom	what about the tuesday after the long weekend
20:32	slef	sekjal: what holiday just out of interest?
20:32	chris_n	jransom++
20:32	chris	thanksgiving?
20:33	thd	as sekjal reported Monday after would be a problem
20:33	sekjal	slef: Thanksgiving is on the 26th
20:33	chris	the best holiday ever
20:33	wizzyrea	turkey and sports
20:33	wizzyrea	and gravy
20:33	chris_n	turkey++
20:33	chris	yeah, and no presents
20:33	wizzyrea	gravy++
20:33	chris_n	gravy++
20:33	chris_n	heh
20:33	wizzyrea	hehe
20:34	slef	oh yeah it was Columbus day I didn't know about last time... ok, so we have a suggestion of Tuesday 1 December - 19 UTC, 10 UTC or something new?
20:34	sekjal	I know that I'm out of town the 25th through the 28th
20:34	jransom	if people travel for thanks giving is the week after better yet?
20:34	gmcharlt	jransom: generally for USians, it is
20:34	jransom	then lets makk it 5 weeks - thats cool
20:34	thd	yes the week after would be better
20:34	slef	so what date?
20:35	chris_n	december 3?
20:35	jransom	good for me
20:35	chris	me too
20:35	thd	December 3 should be late enough
20:35	hdl_laptop	ok
20:35	jransom	or the 10th
20:35	gmcharlt	fine with me
20:35	Ropuch	ok
20:35	sekjal	Dec. 3 for me
20:36	IrmaCalyx	Dec. 3 for me
20:36	tajoli	for me Dec 3
20:36	cait_laptop	ok
20:36	slef	ok, 2009-12-03... time?
20:36	jransom	this time was brilliant for me ... what about the states?
20:36	chris_n	me too
20:36	wizzyrea	good for me
20:36	brendan	good for me
20:36	gmcharlt	yep
20:36	sekjal	worked well for me in NYC
20:36	jransom	early for Irma and Asia
20:36	chris	i think this is crap for india
20:36	chris	and early for irma
20:36	jransom	as in all of Asia .. and Irma :)
20:36	Gary	good for me, same time as today, and 091203
20:37	chris	we just should send irma some coffee beans as a thank you :)
20:37	Ropuch	It's ok in Europe
20:37	IrmaCalyx	No worries 6am start is ok
20:37	thd	It would be likely to be better for those present than those absent
20:37	gmcharlt	true enough
20:37	chris_n	thd: as one might expect :-)
20:37	slef	ok, so 1900Z. If we get a strong request from IrmaCalyx, Amit and whoever, should we vary it at all?
20:38	slef	last question, I promise :)
20:38	jransom	what happens if we shift it back 3 hours? would make it 10am in NZ
20:38	chris_n	forward or backward 3 hours would be fine here
20:38	nicomo	not forward please
20:38	thd	should we ask them via email?
20:38	sekjal	backward would work for me, but not forward
20:38	jransom	9am in australia
20:38	nicomo	it's currently 9:40pm here in France
20:38	slef	I'm just conscious that I think this would make it 3 in a row at 1900Z.
20:38	jransom	and singapore india around 6am ?
20:39	jransom	so 1am for france
20:39	chris_n	ouch
20:39	chris	i think its actually the best time for the majority of people
20:39	jransom	best to mix it up - to be fair - but we don't want chris falling asleep on the keyboard again
20:39	nicomo	chris: +1
20:39	jransom	(took ages for the shift key mark to dissaper :)
20:39	IrmaCalyx	If CALYX is the only affected please dont worry about the early start
20:39	wizzyrea	1am, while late, is not SO late
20:39	slef	ok, let's wait in response to an email announcing the next date
20:39	chris	maybe we need to get some way for the people who cant make it to be able to participate
20:40	chris	let them appoint a proxy maybe?
20:40	nicomo	wizzyrea: yes, it's actually kind of really early
20:40	chris_n	good idea
20:40	slef	I'll send that within 24h if no-one beats me. good idea chris
20:40	slef	ok, meeting closed!
20:40	* brendan	offers to be a proxy for anyone near my time-zone
20:40	chris	thank you very much slef
20:40	IrmaCalyx	Is anyone from India online now?
20:40	chris_n	tnx slef
20:40	slef	thanks all for coming... a lot of difficult topics answered
20:40	chris_n	great job
20:40	chris	well chaired
20:40	sekjal	thanks, slef! brilliantly chaired
20:40	jransom	slef: you did a great job.
20:40	brendan	slef++
20:40	nicomo	thanks slef
20:40	cait_laptop	thx slef
20:41	IrmaCalyx	Thanks slef :)
20:41	slef	IrmaCalyx: I don't think any announced themselves in the roll call.
20:41	thd	wizzyrea: The French may not have all of the crazy late night habits some of us have evolved :)
20:41	hdl_laptop	thanks slef
20:41	slef	they drink so much strong coffee, they have become immune
20:41	jransom	ok - better into the office and rugby tackll my day into submission
20:42	slef	no, thanks to every for not slapping me down when I got verbose
20:42	slef	jransom: what was I taking up with you now? ;-)
20:42	schuster	slef great job.
20:42	gmcharlt	thanks slef
20:42	jransom	stuff about why LL should transfer assetys to a sort term HLT solution over the Koha foundation they have already set upo.
20:43	jransom	but i have to drive to work now.
20:43	slef	jransom: oh yes, the Ohio KSF, but I think brendan has made me partially obsolete.
20:43	* chris	has missed his bus
20:43	slef	ok, talk later or tomoz maybe
20:43	jransom	oh never let that be said !
20:43	chris	by an hour and 40 mins ...
20:43	chris	so i best start walking
20:43	jransom	but happy to hear from you and your thoughts on the matter
20:43	slef	chris: heh, so not entirely the fault of meeting length
20:43	jransom	cya everything
20:43	jransom	and thanks for a great meeting
20:44	sekjal	thanks, jransom!
20:44	chris	slef: naw, the meeting would had to be 10 mins long for me to make it :)
20:44	slef	time to go cook dinner for people :)
20:44	slef	chris: can you IRC from a phone there?
20:44		jransom left #koha
20:45	thd	slef: Do all UK carriers let you use IRC on standard ports?
20:45	chris	not if i want to be able to afford to buy food
20:45		Gary left #koha
20:45	slef	I'll probably regret this, but it seems easier to moderate an IRC meeting than a physical one where ranters studiously avoid your eye contact when speaking
20:46	slef	thd: I don't know. I only have two mobile phones.
20:46	chris_n	heh
20:46	slef	chris: telecommed? :-/
20:46	pianohacker	I personally prefer irc meetings, but I'm a geek
20:46		jwagner left #koha
20:46	thd	slef: Do you have affordable unlimited data plans which would not cause the problem which chris identified?
20:46	IrmaCalyx	See you later all...
20:46	chris	cya IrmaCalyx
20:46		IrmaCalyx left #koha
20:47	slef	thd: no, but I pay 7p/Mb which is fine for IRCing.
20:47	* chris_n	heads off to supper
20:47	pianohacker	bye chris_n
20:47	slef	thd: and the other phone was 50p for up to some number of Gb in a day.
20:47	chris	ok im out of here
20:47	chris	bbl
20:48	thd	slef: I have to make more effort for the wiki vote
20:49		nicomo left #koha
20:49	pianohacker	slef: that's very reasonable; unless you spring for an unlimited plan, verizon charges 5 cents/kb
20:50		pianohacker left #koha
20:50	slef	thd: Thanks. Me too.
20:50		pianohacker joined #koha
20:51	slef	pianohacker: and guess what? The 7p/Mb one is a co-op
20:53	pianohacker	http://www.thephone.coop/resid[…]sidential-mobiles ? the co-op idea seems very nice
20:54		tajoli left #koha
20:54	slef	that's it... I must chase them up about our broken sales landing page :-/
20:54	slef	(links from http://www.software.coop/products/phone/ are 404ing)
20:56	sekjal	time for my train. cheers, #koha
20:56		sekjal left #koha
20:59	slef	heh, at least two people voted twice... I need to clean this up and rerun the analyses, but it can't see it changing the results
21:07		schuster left #koha
21:17	wizzyrea	ok I have a stumper
21:17	wizzyrea	well
21:17	wizzyrea	it'll be ez for you all
21:17	wizzyrea	I want to hide Transfer, using jquery
21:17	wizzyrea	but I don't want to hide Transfers to Receive
21:18	wizzyrea	how can I select just Transfer, and not Transfers to Receive
21:18	wizzyrea	I can't seem to find a selector that says if bleh IS x, hide
21:18	wizzyrea	i found contains
21:19	gmcharlt	what is bleh? an attribute?
21:19	wizzyrea	well here
21:19	wizzyrea	lemme paste what I've done
21:20	wizzyrea	$("#bd li:contains('Transfer')").remove();
21:20	wizzyrea	but this removes both Transfer and Transfers to Receive
21:20	wizzyrea	now they want to unhide Transfers to Receive, but still hide Transfer
21:20	Sharon	they are such a pain in your behind ;-)
21:21	wizzyrea	...sec, i'm going to go look at the yui grids
21:21	wizzyrea	(sometimes all I need is to write it out)
21:23	gmcharlt	wizzyrea: one thought - if you hide (by changing the visibility of) the elements rather than removing them, you can hide the transnfers, then unhide transfers to receive
21:23	wizzyrea	gmcharlt: that is also a good idea
21:24	wizzyrea	I shall try both!
21:26	wizzyrea	you are thinking something like $("#bd li:contains('Transfers to Receive')").show();
21:27	Nate	gnight #koha
21:27		Nate left #koha
21:27	gmcharlt	wizzyrea: yes
21:28	wizzyrea	so I did $("#bd li:contains('Transfer')").hide();
21:28	wizzyrea	and $("#bd li:contains('Transfers to Receive')").show();
21:28	wizzyrea	but neither show :(
21:44	cait_laptop	wizzyrea you want to hide transfer on circulation page?
21:45	wizzyrea	yesm
21:45	wizzyrea	just transfer, not transfers to receive
21:46	cait_laptop	ok, let me take a look, perhaps I can help
21:50		Topic for #koha is now Discussion channel for the Koha ILS \| Next Koha foundation IRC meeting will be held on #koha 3 December 2009 at 19:00 UTC+0 \| Time Converter: http://tinyurl.com/yh4g3ed
21:50	cait_laptop	$("#bd li:eq(2)").hide();
21:50	cait_laptop	hides the third li element - will break when another link is added on circulation page
21:51	wizzyrea	OH !
21:51	wizzyrea	very smart
21:51	wizzyrea	well, I think, if something gets added there, I'll deal with that
21:51	wizzyrea	lemme try
21:53	wizzyrea	YAY ty
21:53	wizzyrea	I always forget about the indexes
21:53	wizzyrea	cait_laptop++
21:54	cait_laptop	another solution: $("#bd li a[href=/cgi-bin/koha/circ/branchtransfers.pl]").parent().hide();
21:54	chris	back at work
21:55	cait_laptop	going to bed - good night :)
21:55	wizzyrea	ooh, I like that one too cait
21:56	chris	cait_laptop++
21:56	cait_laptop	uh
21:56		Sharon left #koha
21:56	cait_laptop	owen would now more ways to do it
21:57	wizzyrea	but owen's not here ^.^
21:57	cait_laptop	jquery++
21:57	chris_n2	http://www.wired.com/autopia/2[…]torized-la-z-boy/
21:58	cait_laptop	ok, near to falling asleep here - bye chris, wizzyrea and rest of #koha
21:58		cait_laptop left #koha
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22:37	chris	what a day
22:37	chris	crazy emails, a good meeting, winning tickets to the semi final, realising i cant go, giving the tickets to russel
22:38	richard	but russel hates rugby ;)
22:38	chris	heh
22:40	chris_n2	chris: I had written a response email, got called away before sending it, thought about it while away, deleted it when I got back... ;-)
22:40	chris	good call :)
22:41	chris	i dont think joshua can possibly be serious, glass houses, throwing stones, 2 years late and all that .. he has to be just baiting
22:41	chris_n2	I agree there
22:42	chris_n2	he must have more time on his hands lately
22:42	chris_n2	which would be better used submitting bug fixes instead of complaining
22:42	chris_n2	opps
22:42	chris	well that was my response
22:42	chris	that i deleted
22:42	chris	"send a patch"
22:42	chris_n2	me too
22:42	chris_n2	heh
22:43	richard	not long now until the interweb becomes self aware.....
22:43	richard	Forty years ago, on Oct. 29, 1969, the world entered a new era. A Menlo Park, Calif., outpost of ARPANET, the packet-switched network predecessor of the Internet, received the first ever communication between one computer and another.
22:43	chris	heh
22:44	chris_n2	wow... I was a little over 5 months old
23:00		IrmaCalyx joined #koha
23:05		CGI945 joined #koha
23:05		CGI945 left #koha
23:30	brendan	afternoon everyone
23:30	brendan	errr.. good afternoon
23:56		IrmaCalyx left #koha

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