IRC log for #koha, 2009-10-29

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:10 hdl_laptop left #koha
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00:54 chris joined #koha
01:13 rich-away is now known as richard
02:24 chris_n2 back to win32 for a bit
02:26 Topic for #koha is now Discussion channel for the Koha ILS | Final Results of the Koha Foundation Voting:[…]e_in_final_survey | Next Koha foundation forming IRC meeting will be held on #koha 29 October 2009 at 19:00 UTC+0 | Time Converter:
02:26 Topic for #koha is now Discussion channel for the Koha ILS | Next Koha foundation forming IRC meeting will be held on #koha 29 October 2009 at 19:00 UTC+0 | Time Converter:
03:17 brendan left #koha
03:28 Amit joined #koha
03:28 Amit hi chris
03:29 Amit good morning #koha
03:29 chris_n2 howdy Amit
03:29 Amit hi chris_n2
03:30 brendan joined #koha
03:31 Amit heya brendan
03:32 brendan hey Amit
03:32 brendan how you doing?
03:32 brendan you been having a good time?
03:32 Amit everything is fine
03:32 Amit yes
03:33 brendan great
03:45 chris_n2 g'night #koha
03:45 brendan night chirs_n2
03:55 brendan I can't remember right now -- doea bulkmarcimport do any matching on the database
03:55 brendan s/doea/does
03:56 brendan I think to get any matching you have to use the stage/manage found under tools
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04:28 brendan @wunder 93117
04:28 munin brendan: The current temperature in Northwest Goleta, Goleta, California is 15.3�C (9:22 PM PDT on October 28, 2009). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 27%. Dew Point: -4.0�C. Pressure: 29.94 in 1013.8 hPa (Rising). Wind Advisory in effect until 3 am PDT Thursday...
04:28 brendan yup it sure is windy here munin
04:34 Amit @wunder Bangalore
04:34 munin Amit: The current temperature in Bangalore, India is 22.0�C (8:30 AM IST on October 29, 2009). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 75%. Dew Point: 19.0�C.
04:43 brendan @wunder new delhi, indian
04:43 munin brendan: The current temperature in New Orleans Lakefront, Louisiana is 22.0�C (11:19 PM CDT on October 28, 2009). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 83%. Dew Point: 19.0�C. Pressure: 29.92 in 1013 hPa (Steady).
04:43 brendan @wunder new delhi, india
04:43 munin brendan: The current temperature in New Delhi, India is 22.0�C (9:30 AM IST on October 29, 2009). Conditions: Smoke. Humidity: 43%. Dew Point: 9.0�C. Pressure: 30.09 in 1019 hPa (Steady).
05:27 richard joined #koha
05:30 brendan @quote
05:30 munin brendan: Error: "quote" is not a valid command.
05:30 brendan @random
05:30 munin brendan: Error: The command "random" is available in the Dict, Factoids, and Quote plugins.  Please specify the plugin whose command you wish to call by using its name as a command before "random".
05:30 brendan @quote random
05:30 munin brendan: Quote #42: "<chris_n> @gmcharlt: it's broken; how do I fix it? <munin> chris_n: Error: gmcharlt: is not a valid command." (added by chris_n at 09:17 AM, October 28, 2009)
05:46 brendan left #koha
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05:47 yesan Hello everyone
05:47 Amit heya yesan
05:47 yesan looks amith is there
05:50 UTCBLR I think amit is busy
05:50 UTCBLR he is not responding
05:50 yesan hello Israel
05:51 UTCBLR yes
05:51 yesan good
05:51 UTCBLR Koha errorThe following fatal error has occurred:Unable to provide required featuresCompilation failed in require at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/ line 27.BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/ line 27.Compilation failed in require at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/ line 28.BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/ line 28.Compilation failed in require at /usr/shar
05:51 indradg left #koha
05:51 yesan amit
05:52 yesan Amith may have a solution for this problem
05:52 UTCBLR Koha errorThe following fatal error has occurred:Unable to provide required featuresCompilation failed in require at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/ line 27.BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/ line 27.Compilation failed in require at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/ line 28.BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/ line 28.Compilation failed in require at /usr/shar
05:53 yesan or someone
05:53 yesan Chris, Can u help UTCBLR
05:53 UTCBLR Amit will not help us
05:53 yesan he has some problems
05:53 UTCBLR just forget about him
05:53 UTCBLR we can get help from some one else
05:54 yesan I know Amit, he might be too busy
05:54 UTCBLR Mr. Chris can u help me
05:54 UTCBLR Hopefully
05:55 brendan joined #koha
06:08 yesan UTCBLR
06:08 yesan try installing those missing modules
06:09 yesan lik
06:09 yesan like
06:09 yesan Biblio.PM
06:09 yesan
06:09 yesan
06:10 UTCBLR hello
06:10 UTCBLR i was out for a minute
06:11 UTCBLR ok i will do
06:11 yesan u haven't listed all the modules that are missing
06:11 yesan try install these
06:11 yesan bye
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06:48 UTCBLR hello
06:51 Ropuch Morning, #koha
06:51 Amit hi ropuch, indradg
06:52 Ropuch Hello Amit
06:57 magnusenger joined #koha
07:04 Ropuch Hi magnusenger
07:14 kf joined #koha
07:14 kf morning #koha
07:16 Ropuch Morning kf
07:18 kf morning Ropuch :)
07:20 Ropuch I had my first german lesson yesterday
07:21 Ropuch And it seems to be quite easy to learn [;
07:23 Amit heya KF
07:24 greenmang0 Ropuch:
07:24 kf hi Amit
07:25 kf Ropuch: never heard that German is easy before... :)
07:25 Ropuch It seems to be, but letm dive into it more ;>
07:26 kf kf: when you need help with your homework ... ;)
07:26 laurence joined #koha
07:27 kf Ropuch: if you need help with your homework ... (im not really awake right now)
07:27 Ropuch Me neither
07:28 Ropuch kf: thanks [;
07:53 nicomo joined #koha
07:56 Ropuch Hello nicomo
07:58 Ropuch I wonder if can buy a copy of MODx Web Development for my library
07:58 nicomo hello Ropuch and all
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08:25 Amit heya nicomo
08:27 UTCBLR Hello to all
08:27 UTCBLR can anybody help me
08:28 paul_p joined #koha
08:28 Ropuch UTCBLR: what is your problem?
08:28 UTCBLR oh yes Ropuch thanks
08:28 UTCBLR yes my problem is
08:28 Ropuch Morning, paul_p
08:28 UTCBLR Koha errorThe following fatal error has occurred:Unable to provide required featuresCompilation failed in require at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/ line 27.BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/ line 27.Compilation failed in require at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/ line 28.BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/ line 28.Compilation failed in require at /usr/shar
08:29 UTCBLR Mr. Ropuch please help me in this regards, just look at the error message in the chat
08:31 UTCBLR Mr. Ropuch what would be the problem ?
08:31 Ropuch Oh
08:31 Ropuch What distro are you using?
08:32 UTCBLR I am using it on Debian Linux
08:32 Ropuch Ok, give me 1 minute
08:32 UTCBLR ok Mr. Ropuch
08:32 paul_p hello world !
08:32 UTCBLR Hello Mr Paul
08:33 UTCBLR how are you doing sir
08:33 Ropuch UTCBLR: sudo apt-get install libmarc-xml-perl libmarc-record-perl
08:34 Ropuch[…]uide_ubuntu_hardy
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08:36 Ropuch UTCBLR: < - try to install all the packages
08:36 UTCBLR Mr.Ropuch I have install it already
08:37 Ropuch And afair you need 'sudo cpan HTTP::OAI'
08:37 Ropuch UTCBLR: hm
08:38 Ropuch From the error you get I can guess you either don't have zoom & marc modules installed, or koha can't find them
08:38 Ropuch You've  followed hardy install guide?
08:40 UTCBLR hello
08:41 hdl_laptop hi all
08:41 Ropuch Hi hdl_laptop
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08:47 Blr-1 Mr. Ropuch
08:47 Blr-1 waiting for your reply
08:48 Ropuch Blr-1: 09:38 < Ropuch> You've  followed hardy install guide?
08:48 Ropuch 09:39 < UTCBLR> hello
08:48 Blr-1 yes sir
08:48 Ropuch I didn't get your question
08:48 Blr-1 sir
08:48 Blr-1 Koha errorThe following fatal error has occurred:Unable to provide required featuresCompilation failed in require at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/ line 27.BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/ line 27.Compilation failed in require at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/ line 28.BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/ line 28.Compilation failed in require at /usr/share
08:49 Blr-1 I tried to install the modules which u told
08:50 Ropuch It's your first try with koha?
08:51 Ropuch I mean: do you have any koha database, or just doing clean install?
08:51 Blr-1 clean install
08:52 Blr-1 working on KOha for the first time sir
08:53 Ropuch perl -MMARC::File::XML -e 1
08:53 Ropuch Try this
08:53 Ropuch Did you get any output?
08:53 |Lupin| joined #koha
08:54 Ropuch Hi |Lupin|
08:54 |Lupin| hi
08:54 kf hi Lupin
08:55 Blr-1 ok sir
08:56 Blr-1 Mr.Ropuch # UTF-8 Defaults for Koha (added DATE by YOURNAME)init-connect='SET NAMES utf8'character-set-server=utf8c​ollation-server=utf8_general_ci
08:56 Blr-1 sorry
08:56 Blr-1 could not find ParserDetails.ini in /usr/local/share/perl/5.10.0/XML/SAXUnable to provide required featuresCompilation failed in require.BEGIN failed--compilation aborted.
08:56 Blr-1 perl -MMARC::File::XML -e 1could not find ParserDetails.ini in /usr/local/share/perl/5.10.0/XML/SAXUnable to provide required featuresCompilation failed in require.
09:00 Ropuch Hm
09:10 Ropuch You may have the same module installed from cpan and .deb at the same time
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09:29 chris Ropuch++ #for trying
09:31 Ropuch I hope i didn't cause more confusion to Blr
09:33 chris im not sure that would be possible :)
09:34 Ropuch I've made him apt-get install perl modules without asking if he had done that via cpan
09:34 Ropuch I wasn't very smart of me
09:35 Ropuch s/I/It
09:36 chris normally that isnt a problem the cpan ones take precedence (because of the way @INC is done)
09:37 Ropuch Koha 3.0 install is quite easy when following wiki tutorial
09:38 Ropuch But maybe I'm saying that beacause I've installed it a few times
09:43 chris there are certainly things a lot harder to install
09:43 chris but it could be easier too
09:44 Ropuch Oh man, scientists are so dumb sometimes
09:45 Ropuch We have to spent lot of money till end of the year, so we're in little hurry. The 'scientists' have to send me lists of books, I;ve prepared a form for them (Title, Author, Year, ISbn etc)
09:46 Ropuch But it proved to be to hard to just fill-in: I've received a document that looks more like mashup than a bibliography
09:46 Ropuch And now i get a list with ISBn fields like: 9,78E+12
09:48 chris heh
09:49 Amit heya chris
09:53 kf hi chris
09:55 kf looking at bugs and enhancement request for notices, should I mark one of them as dublicate?
09:55 kf bug 3494
09:55 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3494 enhancement, P5, ---,, NEW, Option to bcc all notices
09:55 kf bug 3260
09:55 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3260 enhancement, P5, ---,, ASSIGNED, Adding bcc to email notices
09:57 kf chris: I was looking at koha code and database yesterday for options to make notices work as we need them to work and found a table notifys - seems to be a hlt feature that was lost - can you remember how it worked?
10:00 chris hmm nope notifys wasnt an hlt one
10:00 chris and yep those do look like duplicates
10:00 chris hlt had one called attempted_contacts
10:01 chris which was like the messagequeue is now
10:02 kf ah ok, perhaps I got it wrong, I found old templates for notices which seemd to be for hlt
10:02 kf is it ok to mark things as dublicate? I already found 4 bugs for "notice trigger does not work with default library"
10:03 chris yep
10:03 chris marking things as duplicates is great
10:04 chris do you want the bug wrangler job? :-)
10:05 kf I was thinking about it
10:06 chris cool
10:06 kf but not sure if I m the right person for the job
10:06 kf and what it means and how time consuming it is... I want to do many things but time is really a problem :(
10:07 chris *nod*
10:08 chris basically its doing what you just did, finding duplicates, finding old bugs, pesterng people to test etc
10:08 kf when do you think will be decided about the roles for 3.4?
10:09 kf and: how to decide which bug is the duplicate? they are both assigned. hm.
10:09 chris we will talk about about it at next developer meeting
10:10 chris and probably email asking for more volunteers
10:10 kf today is only about koha foundation, right?
10:10 chris then sometime after that we will have a vote on irc probably
10:10 chris yep
10:12 chris my rule for duplicates is, the older one wins, ie the new gets marked a duplicate of the old one
10:12 kf makes sense :)
10:13 kf but they are linked to each other, so it should not be a problem I hope
10:13 chris yeah it will be fine
10:14 kf I worked on translation yesterday, do you have news for those ils-di strings?
10:14 chris nope no new news
10:15 kf hm ok, I just dont like it, when my translation is not 100% :)
10:17 Ropuch hehe
10:20 hdl_laptop Is there a problem with ils-di ?
10:21 kf its a bit difficult in translation
10:22 kf hdl_laptop: perhaps you can take a look at the untranslated strings in German 3.2 intranet translation? Or I can copy you an example.
10:22 kf oh its opac not intrant
10:22 hdl_laptop i will take a look at that.
10:23 kf hdl_laptop: I have it open right now, want an example?
10:23 hdl_laptop yes.
10:27 hdl_laptop Just read the code there.
10:27 hdl_laptop (11:25:43) hdl_laptop: And No it should never be translated.
10:27 hdl_laptop (11:25:57) hdl_laptop: In fact, it is an example of response.
10:27 hdl_laptop (11:26:13) kf: ah ok
10:27 hdl_laptop (11:26:39) hdl_laptop: We should have a <code> tag which would be skipped by the translation
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10:33 kf huh
10:34 crackjack I'm running multiple zebra servers for multiple database hosting. But when I run rebuild_zebra, it doesnot re-build the bibs, it overlaps all the instances with the same record
10:34 kf I just tried to find those string in another translation - chinese. Can not find them there
10:34 crackjack what is the problem????There are data in the database, it also has the bibs record in the database
10:36 crackjack can anyone help me with rebuild_zebra in multiple database, multiple zebra???
10:37 kf hdl_laptop: can you check for ilsdi-strings in french translation? I wonder if there is something wrong with the German translation file
10:38 kf hm it seems its too big
10:39 kf oh my
10:41 crackjack has anyone here tried multiple zebra, multiple database in a single machine???
10:44 slef I'd ask the unassigned bug 3494 how they differ from the other one.
10:44 munin Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3494 enhancement, P5, ---,, RESOLVED DUPLICATE, Option to bcc all notices
10:45 slef marking bugs as resolved without letting the requestor dissent can upset some people
10:45 slef crackjack: yes.  make sure you run different zebras on different ports and/or IPs.
10:45 slef crackjack: then as long as you point to the right KOHA_CONF, all should be fine.
10:46 slef maybe different zebra dbs is enough actually
10:46 slef I forget :)
10:46 kf slef: I think its the same programmer here, both ptfs
10:46 slef oh that only works if you compromise on security between web apps (don't run them as their own users) I think
10:46 slef kf: I've given up trying to understand which ptfs is the same as which ptfs.
10:47 slef anyone got thoughts on that "strange behaviour of 3.04" email?
10:47 hdl_laptop crackjack: different koha-conf.xml and zebra sockets is ok.
10:47 hdl_laptop We use that.
10:48 hdl_laptop slef: I sent a response.
10:48 slef ok, I won't
10:56 crackjack I have added eth0:dummy with proper IP address
10:56 paul_p slef: I've sent a response, asking for more information (maybe they use koha express, and LL adds a link to
10:56 crackjack I have addred Listen 9090 in ports.conf
10:57 crackjack I've written KOHA_CONF=/etc/koha/dummy-conf.xml
10:57 crackjack I've also changed zebra sockets accordingly
10:58 crackjack I have successfully run multiple zebra servers, only problem is with indexing
11:00 slef paul_p: maybe. But if LL is google tracking users, is that even legal for EU libraries?  (export of personal data without safe harbour)  I thought Beda was a long-time user and Koha Express is 3.0.2
11:01 slef crackjack: you need to change to the right KOHA_CONF for the koha you're indexing at least.
11:01 paul_p yes, I know, that's why I just asked for more information about their platform. I'm (probably) wrong with koha express thing
11:03 crackjack slef: do you mean I need to change KOHA_CONF everytime I run rebiuld??
11:05 slef KOHA_CONF needs to match the koha whose index you are trying to rebuild
11:08 crackjack slef: I think I'n not clear to you yet,....let me explain in detail
11:08 crackjack I have a default installation of koha in /usr/share/koha and its configuration files are in /etc/koha
11:09 crackjack then I copied all related files and renamed it accordingly as to
11:10 crackjack koha-conf.xml and koha-httpd.xml to dummy-conf.xml and dummy-httpd.xml
11:11 crackjack then I included the path of dummy-conf.xml in the /usr/share/koha/bin/
11:12 crackjack am I right upto this point???
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11:28 crackjack no one here??
11:29 nicomo left #koha
11:34 slef crackjack: sorry, I'm at work and need to concentrate on work.  Unless you edited the xml files to run them on different ports, that's not enough.
11:35 slef or to run differently somehow
11:36 crackjack where is the place to edit ports in xml file
11:36 crackjack i don't see any
11:36 crackjack ok kool
11:36 crackjack i;ll talk to you when you r freee'
11:37 crackjack can you send me your email id??
11:38 slef lines like <listen id="biblioserver" >unix:/home/ttllp/koha-dev-run/var​/run/zebradb/bibliosocket</listen> defines the socket/port to use
11:39 slef please email rather than me.  If you email me, you'll be pointed there and to
11:39 slef sorry - I try to do what I can, but I am not rich enough to work for everyone for free.
11:41 crackjack ok cool
11:41 crackjack thanks for this buddy
11:41 crackjack it was a great help
11:41 crackjack i'll definitely send a mail to the kists
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11:47 slef I hate letting people down, but I'm getting mobile phone calls about a library network problem.
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12:14 Amit hi slef
12:14 |Lupin| pls everybody
12:15 |Lupin| is there a date scheduled for the rlease of 3.2 ?
12:16 gmcharlt |Lupin|: I'm planning to release a pre-alpha on November 4
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12:16 gmcharlt |Lupin|: at this point, bugfixing and translation would mean an additional month, probably two months before release of 3.2 gold
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12:18 slef[…]opment:roadmap3.2 needs update
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12:20 |Lupin| gmcharlt: ok.
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12:21 jwagner Good morning all.
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12:21 |Lupin| gmcharlt: I assume the changes in the db like the addition of olumns in the branches and borrowers table are not in 3.0.4... are they ?
12:21 gmcharlt I don't think so - 3.0.4 should just be bugfixes
12:22 |Lupin| gmcharlt: ok...
12:23 |Lupin| gmcharlt: hmm I feel a bit stuck because we will need a version of Koha where the translations are more or less corect, but we can't use 3.0.4 because there are missing columns in the db... ny recommandation ?
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12:27 jwagner Good morning, owen.  I gather jdavidb was keeping you updated about all the props I gave you during my training session this week :-)
12:27 owen :)
12:27 jwagner They were well-earned props!
12:27 owen I still haven't gotten any calls from Hollywood agents
12:28 jwagner Who needs Hollywood?  The WORLD is calling!!! At least the Koha world :-)
12:28 paul_p 'morning usa
12:29 jwagner Bonjour France
12:30 |Lupin| hi jwagner
12:30 jwagner Hi |Lupin|
12:30 |Lupin| paul_p: is there a more or less coherent frnech translation maintained for the development version of KOha, pls ?
12:30 paul_p for 3.2 you mean ?
12:32 jwagner Question for folks on reserves and old_reserves.  It looks like when a hold is filled, the entry is moved from reserves to old_reserves, correct?  The "Found" field in old_reserves seems to get an F code for that situation, and it looks like a W code for holds that are cancelled.  Is there a list somewhere of all the possible codes and what they mean (for the Found field in old_reserves)?
12:33 chris_n g'morning
12:34 |Lupin| paul_p: yeah
12:34 paul_p |Lupin|: ask hdl_laptop or laurence, but I don't think so
12:35 hdl_laptop ?
12:35 |Lupin| hdl_laptop: I'm looking for an up-to-date translation for 3.2
12:36 gmcharlt |Lupin|: one possibility would be to work with chris to get the French translation started for 3.2
12:36 |Lupin| hdl_laptop: I have to set-up a developemnt Koha but 3.04 would not work I think because of missing columns in the db
12:36 hdl_laptop hi |Lupin| no french ppl did this as far as i know
12:36 gmcharlt porting the 3.0.x translation would cover most strings, although not all, of course
12:36 hdl_laptop but 3.2 project is on pootle at the moment
12:37 |Lupin| gmcharlt: I think it would be enough, at least for a starting point
12:37 hdl_laptop So it is possible to take this as a start
12:37 hdl_laptop hi gmcharlt
12:37 gmcharlt hi hdl_laptop
12:37 |Lupin| how can that be done ?
12:41 |Lupin| hdl_laptop: ?
12:44 hdl_laptop you can download the po file from take the 3.1 3.2 versions
12:44 hdl_laptop jwagner : i confirm that whe a reserve has been satisfied, it goes to old_reserves.
12:45 hdl_laptop jwagner for a complete list,
12:45 |Lupin| hdl_laptop: and then ? just save them at the right place in git and call install-code fr-FR?
12:45 hdl_laptop see perldoc C4::Reserves
12:46 hdl_laptop |Lupin|: yes
12:47 jwagner hdl_laptop, thanks -- that's what I needed.
12:47 hdl_laptop jwagner: The package is quite well documented
12:47 |Lupin| hdl_laptop: thanks also :)
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13:04 |Lupin| k, see you later all, bye
13:04 |Lupin| left #koha
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13:30 owen Hi schuster
13:37 chris_n hello owen
13:37 hdl_laptop hi owen
13:37 chris_n and hdl_laptop
13:38 owen *sigh*
13:38 owen Joshua would like us to please not release software with bugs.
13:39 owen If only we'd known that before...
13:39 jwagner Of course we all turn out perfect code every time, right?  No problem!
13:39 hdl_laptop koha 3 would never have come out
13:41 Ropuch hehe
13:41 * paul_p think USERS should answer to josh
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13:44 * owen isn't sure anyone should answer him this time
13:44 paul_p (at least not a vendor)
13:45 slef yeah, because Ed's or Brooke's reply will be so diplomatic
13:48 slef or shall I ask someone from the libraries hurt by the long 3.0 slip to reply?
13:48 slef I'm really quite angry about that email, so I'm not going to reply during work time.
13:49 slef hopefully someone else will before I do!
13:49 * chris_n bites his tongue... hard
13:49 hdl_laptop slef: long 3.0 slip... can you explain ?
13:49 slef hdl_laptop: 1mo
13:50 hdl_laptop do you mean the delay ?
13:50 owen slef: do you mean the unexpected delay of the release of 3.0?
13:50 slef yes
13:50 paul_p you mean 3.0.0, right ?
13:50 slef 3.0.0 first announced as releasing by the end of 2006, actually released 11 Aug 2008.
13:51 slef that was josh's last, wasn't it?
13:51 paul_p slef++ (but I suggest not to go this way on the ML, because the answer will be "it was poor quality before, and, thanks us we worked hard to have something of good quality"
13:52 slef yeah and then we go around the why-the-co-op-forked loop again
13:52 slef checkmate in 3 moves
13:52 slef so no, I'm not going that way.
13:53 slef lunchtime in Somerset! bbl
13:53 paul_p chris_n : seen your msg about pdf. You can speak with Kivutar (it's jean-andré nick on IRC) Although he didn't start to upgrade what I did previously (and that you can get on
13:53 paul_p slef: bon appetit. Lunch is more than 1 hour away for us ;-)
13:55 hdl_laptop branch master
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14:06 schuster sad... ;(
14:06 schuster Just read some of the discussion as noted to above.
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14:11 jwagner Stalking through the code, it looks like an acquisition claim email is generated immediately when someone clicks Claim (similar to a hold pickup email).  Is that the case?  It doesn't seem to require a cron job like overdue notices.
14:12 owen Hi sekjal
14:12 sekjal morning, owen
14:16 |Lupin| joined #koha
14:16 |Lupin| hi again, all
14:16 |Lupin| gmcharlt: around ?
14:17 sekjal hi, |Lupin|
14:17 |Lupin| hello sekjal
14:17 gmcharlt |Lupin|: yes
14:17 |Lupin| gmcharlt: I'm wondering: what's the preferred way of creating temporary files in Koha, pls ?
14:18 gmcharlt |Lupin|: File::Temp
14:18 |Lupin| gmcharlt: ok.
14:18 |Lupin| gmcharlt: any funciton there ?
14:18 gmcharlt there's an example in tools/
14:19 |Lupin| gmcharlt: has KOha a well-defined temporary directory that could be used ? perhaps an example of code that is correctly written and could be used as a source of inspiration ?
14:19 |Lupin| gmcharlt: perfect, thanks a lot
14:28 hdl_laptop jwagner: yes
14:33 jwagner Thanks again hdl_laptop
14:57 schuster MYSQL question - I have been noticing these sessions lately when I run show processlist; that are hanging around for like 158 seconds.
14:57 schuster Is there any way to determine what that is?
14:57 schuster eventually they go away, but just odd to have something sit there that long.
14:59 paul_p schuster: do you know EXPLAIN SELECT * FROM blabla ? that let you know the performance of a given query
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15:33 schuster paul_p - nope so how would I know which blabla to look at?
15:34 owen schuster: He just means put "EXPLAIN" before the SELECT you were doing
15:34 paul_p schuster: just put EXPLAIN before any query
15:34 paul_p you'll get an array, saying how many rows from each table mysql will parse
15:34 schuster I wasn't doing a select - it just shows a process and there isn't a select after it so that's what the mystery is to determine "what" that process was doing.
15:35 paul_p ah, ok. No idea
15:35 schuster 9302133 | pisdadmin | localhost | koha_pisd | Sleep   |   56 |       | NULL   when I do show processlist; that is what I get
15:36 paul_p "Sleep   " => probably a process waiting for something to do
15:36 paul_p (mySQL start some process to have some free ones when needed)
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15:50 schuster just came across this oddity - does anyone else have it?  when you search &amp;amp I get 82,000 hits in my catalog, but when you go to look at it to edit the record shows only &
15:50 schuster A display problem?
15:52 owen schuster: You're searching for "&amp;amp" ?
15:53 sekjal schuster: I get the same result
15:55 owen Why search for "&amp;amp" ?
15:57 schuster I think someone was looking for Diane Goode's book of silly stories & songs / and came across Diane Goode's book of silly stories &amp; songs /
15:58 schuster So they searched for &amp and found "&amp;amp" in the records
15:58 schuster When I go to edit it in cataloging though it is just &
15:58 owen it's a problem with the way the OPAC encodes the "&" and how the search link interprets it I think
15:58 schuster Same results though in staff client
16:00 owen I'm just not sure how they would have ended up seeing the "&amp;"
16:00 sekjal I get the same 19206 results when I search "&amp", "&amp;amp", "&amp;amp;amp;" etc.
16:00 sekjal they do appear in a different relevancy order, though
16:00 owen sekjal: You'll probably get the same result from searching for "amp" by itself.
16:01 sekjal one different, but essentially, yes
16:01 sekjal s/different/fewer/
16:02 owen ...but it's certainly not correct that a search for "amp" should return results containing "&"
16:02 schuster when I search - with &amp the display is a little different it just has the &; rather than &amp;
16:02 schuster as mine does
16:02 sekjal searching '&' yields no results for me
16:04 schuster sekjal same here.
16:05 owen Strangely on my test system I'm getting completely different results
16:06 owen My searches for "&amp" return results starting with the title "Camp"
16:06 owen ...which seems correct to me.
16:07 owen schuster: I'm still confused about how a search for "Diane Goode's book of silly stories & songs" would lead to a search containing "&amp;"
16:10 gmcharlt owen: overnormalization of & to the &amp; XML entity
16:10 owen Sure, but where?
16:10 gmcharlt or C4/; probably not the browser
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16:12 owen But what steps would one have to take to reproduce this problem? Searching for a title with "&" in it, then.... what?
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16:32 thd-away is now known as thd
16:38 thd is now known as thd-away
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16:46 thd-away is now known as thd
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16:56 owen Does unapi have to be turned on somehow?
16:59 sekjal I found that doing a title phrase search for a known title phrase containing "&" yielded no results;  Yet when I replace it with "amp", "&amp" or "&amp;", I get my target record
17:00 sekjal searching with "and" in place of "&" does not work, however
17:00 sekjal I could see my catalogers getting upset about this one, once they find out
17:00 owen[…]l+%26+the+Yucatan
17:01 gmcharlt owen: no, unapi is always on
17:01 sekjal left #koha
17:02 owen gmcharlt:[…]78&format=MARCXML
17:02 owen A bug with our installation? Works fine on my test system.
17:02 owen Unfortunately I don't have access to any logs on our production system.
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17:12 chris grrrrrrrrr
17:12 cait_laptop hi chris
17:12 cait_laptop hi #koha
17:13 hdl_laptop hi chris
17:13 chris hi cait_laptop
17:13 paul_p chris: keep quiet :D
17:13 chris :)
17:13 chris he is such a bully
17:13 paul_p sorry, I wanted to say keep cool ;-)
17:14 chris so much so, im not going to bother replying to his ridiculous email
17:14 paul_p ( but maybe it's good to stay quiet as well ;-) )
17:20 juan-xercode joined #koha
17:21 paul_p bye #koha
17:21 paul_p have a good day, evening, night or whatever you want/need depending on your TZ ;-)
17:22 cait_laptop bye paul_p
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17:25 chris not staying for meeting paul?
17:29 owen ...and Ben chimes in with a Very. Important. Question.
17:32 cait_laptop hm *reading mails*
17:32 paul_p left #koha
17:33 hdl_laptop owen : which question ? about 3.0.4_son_of_final ?
17:33 schuster left #koha
17:33 owen Yes. I'm being sarcastic.
17:34 chris ive just called him on his behaviour, not that i think it will stop it
17:35 schuster joined #koha
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18:10 chris *sigh*
18:10 chris its too early in the morning for this stuff
18:12 * cait_laptop offers chris some virtual chocolate
18:12 chris who brought the coffee?
18:12 chris ohh chocolate, thanks :)
18:13 hdl_laptop french coffe mug
18:15 chris coffee and chocolate, all better :)
18:16 schuster WHEW!
18:16 schuster Where is the current 3.2 git?  I just like to watch development happen.
18:16 chris master branch
18:17 sekjal joined #koha
18:17 chris heya sekjal :)
18:17 schuster OK so nothing has happened with the branch since 2009-10-14?
18:17 chris nope
18:17 schuster There are two other branches there that people are working on so that was why I was confused.
18:18 schuster
18:18 hdl_laptop schuster : biblibre is having its branch too based on master :
18:18 chris yeah, when they are ready, they will be merged in (the biblibre acquisitions one)
18:18 sekjal hi, chris.
18:19 juan-xercode left #koha
18:21 * sekjal reads his email, winces, reads more
18:22 russel joined #koha
18:25 sekjal chris++
18:25 chris heya russel :)
18:25 russel hiya
18:26 chris sekjal: thanks ... i fear i shouldnt have replied the first time though
18:29 sekjal chris: maybe, maybe not.  I think the thread has reached a point of clarity and understanding now, so hopefully things will be smoother from now on
18:31 chris here's hoping
18:31 brendan hi sekjal
18:31 sekjal hey, brendan
18:31 brendan hello richard
18:31 sekjal brb; switching clients
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18:34 sekjal there.  mibbit was down for a while, it seems.
18:34 sekjal either that, or my IT department is experimenting with blocking that, too
18:35 chris heh
18:36 * owen does xulrunner + Chatzilla
18:37 chris i think its the ports that are blocked owen
18:38 owen Lucky for me we don't have a network administrator ;)
18:39 sekjal the external IT department here (I'm with the library's internal IT) is VERY strict with network security.  Hospital records and all
18:41 chris makes sense
18:41 chris ssh out?
18:41 sekjal chris: only over the VPN, and only then if your account is set up for it
18:42 sekjal the strict NetSec policies were a contributing factor in our decision to leave our previous ILS vendor
18:42 chris ahh
18:43 chris there goes my ssh tunnel idea ;)
18:44 sekjal I should spend more time configuring my home server to do neat things for me, but I am sadly without free time
18:44 slef free time... I used to have some of that
18:45 * slef checks lists and starts processing the Final Foundation Vote
18:49 * russel does the school run, back soon
18:50 jwagner joined #koha
18:51 chris hi jwagner
18:54 jransom joined #koha
18:55 chris morning jo
18:55 jransom morning
18:55 chris_n howdy jransom
18:58 jwagner Hi chris
19:00 Ropuch Good evening #koha
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19:03 thd Is nengard expected?
19:03 slef yes, I think so
19:03 irma joined #koha
19:03 slef I'll be here just as soon as I'm done running the voteengine
19:03 chris im not sure that she is, i think she is in california still
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19:05 brendan I'm not so sure -- she is down in the LA area
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19:05 hdl_laptop hi
19:05 IrmaCalyx G'day
19:06 thd who will be conducting the meeting?
19:07 slef I thought that was a reason for this time.
19:07 jransom Is Rachel here, as the Kaiwhakahaere
19:07 slef hdl_laptop: do you know if nengard will be here?
19:07 jransom (and yes I know she is logged in :)
19:07 chris slef: im 99% sure she wont
19:07 slef is this a work thing or a personal thing? ;-)
19:07 jransom ok.
19:08 hdl_laptop brendan should know better than me.
19:08 jransom so with no Nicole or Rach, we need to find a scrum manager for this meeting
19:08 slef ok, so shall we go on anyway and who wants to chair?  Now that the votes have taken place, I think I don't have a prohibitive conflict any more.
19:08 hdl_laptop And if he says he is not sure.
19:08 chris i vote slef to chair
19:08 chris_n +1
19:08 jransom second slef
19:09 slef ok, let me dig my desktop out from under these windows... any dissenters?
19:09 gmcharlt +1 for slef running it
19:09 hdl_laptop note me
19:09 hdl_laptop not me
19:09 hdl_laptop slef++
19:10 slef ok, the agenda is at[…]etingnotes09oct29
19:10 slef who will summarise?
19:10 russel back
19:10 slef someone, please?
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19:10 slef someone to summarise the meeting onto the wiki when we're done?
19:10 thd I will
19:10 slef thanks thd
19:11 slef ok, who's here?  I'm MJ Ray (slef), a member of
19:11 brendan no nengard for the meeting
19:11 thd late tonight
19:11 chris chris cormack, translation manager, catalyst it
19:11 slef thd: that's fine
19:11 cait_laptop Katrin Fischer, BSZ Germany
19:11 jwagner Jane Wagner, PTFS
19:11 brendan brendan gallagher - ByWater Solutions
19:11 jransom Joann Ransom, Horowhenua Library Trust, NZ
19:11 sekjal Ian Walls, NYU Health Sciences Libraries
19:11 russel russel garlick, catalyst IT
19:11 nicomo Nicolas Morin, BibLibre
19:11 Nate Nate Curulla ByWater Solutions
19:11 Ropuch Piotr Wejman, CSNE LIbrary, Poland
19:11 chris_n Chris Nighswonger, FBC
19:11 IrmaCalyx I am here and awake (6.10 am in Sydney)
19:11 rhcl Greg Lawson Rolling Hills Consolidated Libary
19:12 thd Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
19:12 gmcharlt Galen Charlton, ESI, 3.2 RM
19:12 slef ok - anyone else can announce themselves when they remember :)
19:12 slef 1. Conclusion from the final foundation forming vote.
19:12 owen Owen Leonard, Nelsonville Public Library
19:12 hdl_laptop Henri-Damien LAURENT, BibLibre, Montpellier
19:13 slef I've got the vote results and I've run Q1 through the voteengine.
19:13 chris nicole sends her apologies she is on a bus at the moment
19:13 slef By all measures except one so far, HLT wins the "first step" vote.
19:13 rhcl jdavidb is on a plane back to Maryland ATT
19:13 slef The one measure which didn't result in HLT (borda) results in an unresolved tie.
19:13 thd which is the one?
19:13 slef sorry, borda-elim
19:14 slef I'll post the analysis Real Soon Now. Are there any other comments on the vote?
19:14 thd yes
19:14 slef thd first: please go ahead
19:14 owen slef++ # for working on the analysis
19:14 slef anyone else, just raise your hand to go next
19:15 thd I think that many people especially outside the US wanted to affiliate with IFLA in addition to the other options
19:15 schuster David Schuster - Plano ISD, TX USA
19:15 thd the ballot did not really ask about IFLA to elicit that
19:16 thd however, it was in many comments from the first survey
19:16 chris that sounds to me more like a question for the long term foundation
19:16 slef I think that's fair comment and something to bear in mind at each step onwards.
19:16 jransom nods
19:16 thd chris is probably right
19:17 thd it is not something which needs to be addressed immediately
19:17 sekjal does proceeding with HLT close off any possibilities of affliating with IFLA down the road?
19:18 thd sekjal: It should not
19:18 slef point of information: I think the preference rankings were: Q1: HLT > SPI > SFC > IFLA > NONE; Q2: KOHA > LIB > HLT > SPI > SFC > IFLA > NO
19:18 slef wait a mo
19:18 slef any more comments before we move onto 2. What do we do next?
19:18 thd yes
19:18 slef ok
19:18 chris the good thing with HLT is it doesnt really close off any possibilities
19:19 chris_n true
19:19 thd could we not consider that we have an absolute majority of completed votes for HLT?
19:19 chris for short term ?
19:19 schuster Plus in my opinion gives it some Validity in "ownership" since they "originated" the project.
19:20 thd and also for Koha foundation in Q2?
19:20 slef do we?  I'm not seeing that in the analysis but maybe I'm reading them wrong
19:20 thd yes short and long term respectively
19:20 slef for Q1 anyway
19:20 jransom I think the results look clear
19:21 thd slef: I did not check Q2 so maybe not Q2
19:21 slef I see a winning margin of 78 for HLT in Q1 out of 157
19:21 chris_n slef: I thought the results looked clear
19:21 slef and a winning margin of 68 out of 156 in Q2
19:22 chris for new foundation?
19:22 slef for KOHA, yes, sorry
19:22 chris_n Q1 => short term and Q2 => long term.... right?
19:22 chris yes
19:22 slef and yes
19:22 thd However, if you do not count noncompeted votes for the first rank in Q! then there is an absolute majority
19:22 slef I've excluded votes with no email address - isn't that how to spot completed?
19:22 chris_n yes
19:23 slef anyway, by almost any measure, it's Q1: HLT and Q2: KOHA
19:23 chris that was the conclusion i had drawn also
19:23 jransom +1
19:23 chris_n and I
19:23 thd yes that is agreed, I hoped it could be expressed even more clearly
19:23 russel +1
19:23 slef and the benefit of the ranking is that a run-off election wouldn't change that
19:23 slef it's pretty close
19:24 slef ok, any more comments on the vote or move on?
19:24 thd sorry that I ran out of time to raise the absolute majority examination on the mailing list
19:24 slef moving on...
19:25 slef 2. What do we do next?  2.1 Legal issues and procedures.  I guess this means: how do we give HLT koha?
19:25 slef who wants this?  jransom? chris?
19:25 chris i suspect HLT needs to ask
19:25 thd It also means what does HLT do to receive Koha.
19:26 russel i think what jransom proposed in her email to the list about making contact is the first step
19:26 chris_n I'd think the vote is the offer to give
19:26 chris yeah, i agree with russel
19:26 jransom left #koha
19:26 slef heh, timing!
19:26 chris heh
19:26 russel :-)
19:26 chris_n lol
19:26 IrmaCalyx Is there a time limit on the affiliation of Koha with HLT Foundation?
19:27 chris ?
19:27 chris not as far as i know
19:27 jransom joined #koha
19:27 slef time limit from whom?
19:27 chris_n not unless we make one
19:27 chris i guess as long as its needed
19:27 owen Would each person with assets to transfer need their own individual agreement with HLT?
19:27 chris owen: probably
19:27 IrmaCalyx ok
19:27 richard joined #koha
19:27 richard hi
19:28 owen In that case, who draws up the agreement? Is each agreement the same?
19:28 slef jransom: can you tell us how to give HLT (more) control of Koha?
19:28 slef owen: can we deal with asset transfer in a mo, please?
19:28 jransom I'm thinking ...
19:28 jransom carry on - and I'll wave a hand
19:28 slef let's get the basic step done first before the nitty gritty
19:28 * russel wasnt sure this was about giving HLT more control of koha, i thought it was about giving the community more control over koha
19:28 jransom nods
19:28 chris +!
19:28 slef russel: with HLT as the community's proxy at first
19:28 thd IrmaCalyx: There is no absolute time limit but merely a practical one when there is the will and resource to create an independent foundation.
19:29 owen sorry slef I'm just trying to understand in general what the process needs to be
19:29 jransom the trustee 'need' the authority of the community to secure the community assets
19:29 chris_n russel: I think that is what is meant
19:29 jransom I think that is the first, and maybe only job to concentrate on
19:29 slef jransom: so maybe some request signed by rach, RMs, nengard and whoever else we can muster, indicating the voters who request it?
19:29 chris im not sure i see hlt exerting anymore control, more just stopping others
19:30 chris ie holding the community assets in safe hands
19:30 jransom I think the poll results, and a resolution from this meeting authorising HLT to enter into negotiations with whoever about finding a way o secure community assets.
19:30 chris sounds like a good step forward to me
19:30 russel jransom:  sounds good to me
19:31 russel slef: i think that what you have suggested is the next step if there is no response
19:31 jransom then we bring the negotiated proposal/s back to the community for endorsement
19:31 slef ok, so the question is "those present resolve to authorise HLT to enter into negotiations about finding ways to secure koha community assets" - anyone want to speak for or against it?
19:31 thd call the question
19:32 chris table the motion :)
19:32 slef ok, who is for this?
19:32 chris_n +1
19:32 chris aye
19:32 jransom +1
19:32 russel +1
19:32 thd aye
19:32 cait_laptop +1
19:32 sekjal aye
19:32 schuster +1
19:32 rhcl +1
19:32 IrmaCalyx +1
19:32 slef chris: I think table means shelve to the USA.
19:32 Ropuch +1
19:32 Nate +1
19:32 nicomo +1
19:32 slef any -1s or 0s?
19:32 owen +1
19:32 chris_n chris: what slef said
19:33 schuster slef chris yes that's what table means by roberts rules.
19:33 chris ahh, different meaning here
19:33 thd chris: does table not mean shelve in NZ and call the question not an immediate vote?
19:33 slef ok, I'm +1 too.  Anyone who wants to vote later, please add it to the wiki.
19:33 russel err vote later?
19:33 jransom Is it the will of the community that we work towards a date for end of negotiations?
19:34 chris_n slef: I'd think the vote would end at this meeting
19:34 richard +1
19:34 chris_n jransom: +1
19:34 slef ok, I'm overruled.  Anyone who wants to vote later, please put "Q2.1 +1" or similar for -1/0 in IRC before the close.
19:34 slef fun fun fun
19:35 jransom and heres fair warning, I will stick to a date ... no pony trading and game playing afterwards.
19:35 chris_n jransom++
19:35 slef right, jransom what date, do you know?
19:35 slef or just one announced?
19:35 brendan +1
19:35 jransom trustees meeting next thursday 5th nov.
19:35 jransom they have a paper for discussions
19:36 jransom i have inititaed contact with joshua and it is pleasant
19:36 IrmaCalyx jransom: and then the next meeting ?
19:36 chris_n jransom: do they meet monthly
19:36 gmcharlt belated +1
19:36 hdl_laptop Q2.1 +1
19:36 slef ok... let's see how that goes
19:36 thd I think it is a mistake to cancel a negotiation by a particular date if genuine progress seems apparent
19:36 jransom the last thursday in november
19:36 schuster jransom - do you know all of the players that need to be contacted?  You will need time to draft a letter, send it to the parties involved and wait for a response.
19:36 IrmaCalyx Does HLT meet in December? January?
19:36 jransom but they will meet earlier as i request
19:37 jransom thd: but people can spin things on for ever with no intention of ever settling. I'm not mucking around with this.
19:37 chris i think we need to be flexible, but we also need to be able to call BS when it is apparent progress is not being made
19:37 thd jransom: you have to be the judge of genuine progress
19:37 slef or cut our losses, at least.
19:37 chris *nod*
19:37 jransom yes, yes and yes :)
19:37 thd jransom ... to avoid that very problem
19:37 jransom how about you gve me a month
19:38 slef I think jransom should pick the timeline and just announce it.
19:38 jransom and then we decide, based on my gut feeling, if another month would be productive time?
19:38 chris_n slef++
19:38 jransom i would like it resolved quite quickly. there are no surporiuses here
19:38 cait_laptop jransom+
19:38 thd I suggest reporting the state of negotiations which have not completed by some date and indicating prospects
19:38 jransom everuone knows whats happening, what the requests will be,
19:39 chris *nod*
19:39 slef ok, shall we move on to 2.2 Discussion of guarantees?  Whose is this?
19:39 chris its not like its coming out of the blue
19:39 schuster jransom - I believe whoever is running the "request" will have a good idea on if people are acting in good faith or being difficult after you have been in contact with them 2-3 times.
19:39 sekjal so, just to reiterate:
19:39 jransom answers can only be : yes, no and 'heres my price'
19:39 thd slef: I drafted the agenda initially in the absence of nengard
19:39 slef thd: OK. I'll ask you about it once sekjal finishes.
19:40 slef sekjal: please go on
19:40 sekjal the community is agreeing to give HLT 1 month from this date for negotiations
19:40 sekjal and up to one month more, if negotiations in in progress 1 month from now?
19:41 chris_n sekjal: I think we are giving HLT the authority to make the call as they see fit
19:41 slef personally, I'm happy with that, but I lean towards HLT deciding the timeline.
19:41 slef jransom: any reply?
19:41 jransom but, we will meet back in 1 month to assess progress. either call it quits or take another month.
19:42 chris +1
19:42 chris_n +1
19:42 sekjal chris_n: okay
19:42 sekjal +1
19:42 Ropuch +1
19:42 slef ok. everyone, start checking your calendars for 1 month's time ready for the end of the meeting
19:42 rhcl +1
19:42 thd I agree with slef that HLT will be in the best position to assess a reasonable timeline
19:42 jransom (Kiwis don't like mucking about)
19:42 nicomo +1
19:42 IrmaCalyx that is a sound plan
19:42 slef thd: can you introduce "2.2 discussion of guarantees" please?
19:43 thd slef: some such as yourself wanted to know about asset locks and similar guarantees
19:43 jransom can i ask that i be fed through the contact details d details of everone we need to negotiate with please
19:43 slef oh yes... an unresolved pair of questions about HLT from the fact-finding
19:44 slef good catch thd!
19:44 jransom and asset details
19:44 slef jransom: is HLT legally capable of selling assets that it holds?  If so, are there restrictions of transferring assets out of NZ if a future Koha foundation isn't NZ-based?
19:44 slef Does that cover it?
19:44 thd so there are some issues for consideration perhaps some will want a letter when giving assets stating that they are held for the Koha community in some formal legalistic way.
19:45 thd jransom: post the link to the charter
19:45 hdl_laptop +1
19:45 jransom[…]/39-deed-of-trust
19:45 jransom this is or trust deed.
19:45 jransom wcan bud sell wha like towhomevwe lke
19:45 jransom yuck - sorry wireless keyboard
19:46 jransom we can buy and sell whatever we like
19:46 slef For those unfamiliar with an asset lock, it's explained a little in[…]itemId=1077475743
19:46 thd the purposes of the trust seem to have some limit on any real problems
19:47 chris ?
19:47 thd there should also be some provision for what if something happens to HLT outside anyone's control
19:47 chris im not parsing that thd
19:47 slef sorry, I'm waiting for that PDF to download NZ-England :-/
19:47 slef anyone else got questions/comments?
19:47 chris thd: like an act of parliament?
19:47 thd Katipo once had a slide about the Katipo excursion with everyone in the bus
19:48 jransom ok.
19:48 thd there should be some provision for the unthinkable.
19:48 jransom in the event the trust winds up the assets have to be given to a similar minded nonprofit
19:49 chris maybe a letter frm hlt saying
19:49 chris_n jransom: is there any in or out of country restriction?
19:49 thd jransom: there should be a guarantee that the similar minded non-profit would be at the direction of the Koha community
19:49 jransom i would expect, but we should have confirmed in writing, that the koha community assets be transferred to another koha community org
19:49 jransom no country restrictions
19:49 chris we are grateful of the trust put in us by the community, we promise to hold them in trust yadda yadda
19:49 chris ?
19:50 jransom yep
19:50 rhcl I'm confused. So once a bus with everybody from Katipo slid off a road? Does Katipo - HLT?
19:50 jransom sounds very reasonable
19:50 Sharon joined #koha
19:50 chris rhcl: no
19:50 thd rhcl: It was a hypothetical
19:50 chris rhcl: thd is refering to a slide i used to explain why hlt and katipo decided to gpl koha
19:50 rhcl OK. got it
19:50 slef ok, finished reading
19:50 slef I think the above is about
19:50 chris so that if katipo went *poof* they werent locked in without support
19:51 jransom i should think the trustees will want to consider setting up a sub committee of koha folk to 'do' this koha work.
19:51 slef and I think a basic letter would cover it.
19:51 chris cool
19:51 jransom and there will be a MOU
19:51 jransom rules of engagement if you like
19:51 thd MOU?
19:51 jransom sound reasonable?
19:51 slef ok, can we talk about the memorandum of understanding a bit more in a mo?
19:51 jransom memorandum of understanding
19:51 chris_n Memoradum of Understanding
19:52 wizzyrea (sorry I'm late, was at a koha related meeting :))
19:52 slef 2.3 Assignment of trademarks and domains. Is this all left to HLT's discretion now?  Is HLT happy with that?  Do we want to offer more instruction?
19:52 chris_n thd: the US gov't has MOU's with entities such as the Red Cross, etc
19:52 chris_n a sort of formal informality
19:52 slef I know I'm one of the worst offenders, but can we keep the TLAs out as much as possible?
19:52 chris tla?
19:52 slef companies, assets and trusts have enough jargon already
19:53 slef Three Letter Acronyms
19:53 chris righto
19:53 jransom the trustees will almost certainly not want to accept or finalise any deals without running past the commnity first
19:53 chris i think the subcommittee idea has merit
19:53 chris_n +1
19:53 tajoli joined #koha
19:53 russel +1
19:53 chris i think that jo needs to take this back to the trustees, at the meeting
19:53 jransom the question will be whether i should influence themmto set up the subcommittee to do the negotiations under the trust name and with their authoruty behind them
19:54 thd chris: did you mean committee or subcommittee?
19:54 slef ok, so shall we postpone this are we willing to pay/buy/license to a future meeting?
19:54 chris and then report back
19:54 chris_n slef: i think so
19:54 jransom or whether we let the trustees secure the assets through negotiation, then set up sub committee to go forward with
19:54 CGI884 joined #koha
19:54 jransom which is the least 'inflaming' option
19:54 chris that might work better
19:54 chris_n jransom: the second appears better
19:54 CGI884 left #koha
19:55 chris_n least-inflaming++
19:55 slef "3. Scope of activities" has been covered in our request a bit.  Any more comments or questions about this?
19:55 jransom yep - i prefer that too.
19:55 CGI028 joined #koha
19:55 jransom 1 step at a time
19:55 schuster Yes I think letting HLT do the initial run is better as it keep the community and feelings out of the mix.
19:56 jransom it will probably be Sharon Crosbie who doe sthe negitiating, the Chair of the Trust. no background or history
19:56 thd That is exactly why HLT has been a good choice.
19:56 chris_n jransom: excellent
19:56 jransom Harvard graduate - so knows american style a bit too
19:56 CGI028 how do u hop servers
19:56 chris_n heh
19:56 CGI028 is now known as limey
19:56 chris limey, we are in a meeting at the moment
19:57 jransom CG1028: having a meeting now my friend, can you wait for a bit?
19:57 chris give us a few mintues, and we will be free to answer questions
19:57 limey ok bro
19:57 limey what is this lmfao
19:57 slef where are we in the meeting?
19:57 limey left #koha
19:57 jransom ok - I have a clear understanding of what HLT need to do next
19:58 thd slef: either c. or 3.
19:58 jransom do I have an 'executive' or subgroup of koha community contact who i can ask questions of?
19:58 thd slef: either 2c. or 3.
19:58 thd slef: either 2.III,c. or 3.
19:58 jransom otherwise I'll just ask Chris Cormack
19:58 chris_n +1 for chris
19:59 chris gah
19:59 slef anyone got thoughts on this?  We could use koha-manage but eeergh
19:59 chris_n heh
19:59 chris +1 for someone else
19:59 chris :)
19:59 chris my brain hurts
19:59 brendan no koha-manage
19:59 thd jransom: as much as possible I would like to see issues discussed on the mailing list
19:59 jransom yep - sound principle.
19:59 thd the public mailing list
19:59 chris_n thd++
20:00 slef mailing lists aren't executive
20:00 chris_n maybe the current version position holders?
20:00 chris_n ie RM, etc
20:00 slef jransom wants some person(s) who can make a decision I think
20:00 thd however, do not spoil negotiations by revealing the wrong things too openly.
20:00 chris_n they are already community appointed positions
20:00 jransom more a advise role i think
20:00 jransom a second opinion
20:00 slef gmcharlt hdl_laptop rach who else?
20:00 jransom advise to trustees
20:00 jransom if theyt get stuck
20:00 schuster Ah - no koha-manage
20:01 chris nengard and i are the other 2 elected roles
20:01 chris_n chris as TM
20:01 jransom and want an opinion
20:01 slef jransom: but presumably having 171 different opinions isn't OK?
20:01 chris but yeah, koha-manage--
20:01 jransom thats right
20:01 hdl_laptop ca at biblibre dot com ?
20:01 chris that list must die
20:01 jransom 1 - 3 max
20:01 * owen agrees: koha-manage--
20:01 jransom and confidential, loads of wisdom and history
20:01 hdl_laptop paul_p nicomo and I
20:01 chris_n there appear to be a total of 5 current position holders?
20:01 brendan elected positions seems to be the best
20:01 thd I question whether the software project leaders should be necessarily presumed to be the Koha community leaders on other questions
20:02 slef personally, if ca at biblibre, I'm going to suggest info at too, in an act of blatent self-promotion
20:02 schuster hdl_laptop or paul?  - slef?
20:02 slef chris_n: can you enumerate them?
20:02 hdl_laptop oh sorry
20:02 IrmaCalyx jransom: Bob @ CALYX has lots of business and people experience
20:02 chris thd: there are no koha community leaders, thats the point
20:02 hdl_laptop I think I misunderstood
20:03 thd brendon: The role to which the release manager etc. were elected is different from the role about which jransom is asking
20:03 Gary joined #koha
20:03 hdl_laptop bob++
20:03 slef thd: I think RMs and Kaitiaki have historical weight, but this is chicken-and-egg.
20:03 thd chris: yes but we should not presume that we have already identified them
20:03 jransom and Chris (even though you are grumpy today you have a sound understanding of people and the community)
20:03 * owen has to leave. Feel free to draft me in my absence if I can be useful
20:03 slef is it time for a quick election?
20:03 owen left #koha
20:03 chris_n RM gmcharlt, Releas M: hdl, TM chris, DM, nengard, and rhcl
20:04 * brendan throws his hat in the ring
20:04 thd Long term there should be more of a role for users.
20:04 rhcl rhcl????
20:04 schuster Personally as I think about this the current 3.2 release group would be good as they represent people from all over except possibly slef.
20:04 brendan agreed bob++ chris++
20:04 jransom yep - this is a short term, 1 month, advisory role if trust want more info but don't want to go public during private negotiations
20:05 jransom Bob and Chris?
20:05 chris_n I'
20:05 chris_n I'd like to see gmcharlt on board for the month if he will agree
20:05 slef ok, we have a propsal for bob and chris
20:05 jransom This is NOT the sub committee
20:05 IrmaCalyx Bob is ok to advise Joe
20:05 gmcharlt +1 to Bob and Chris
20:05 * russel has to leave to - nice work as the chair slef, thank you
20:05 slef chris: are you willing to accept the nomination?
20:05 russel left #koha
20:05 gmcharlt I am also willing to provide advice
20:06 chris yep, bob + galen + myself
20:06 IrmaCalyx gmcharlt +1
20:06 slef ok, bob, chris and gmcharlt ?
20:06 chris hows that sound?
20:06 chris_n +1
20:06 slef Anyone against?
20:06 schuster 1+
20:06 cait_laptop +1
20:06 hdl_laptop gmcharlt++
20:06 sekjal +1
20:06 jransom brendan offered
20:06 brendan +1
20:06 IrmaCalyx +1
20:06 richard +1
20:06 Ropuch +1
20:06 Gary +1 galen
20:06 slef we have a +1 from brendan
20:06 schuster BibLibre ok with that group?
20:06 jransom Brendan: you ok?
20:06 brendan more experience in the long history of koha by that group IMO
20:06 hdl_laptop yes.
20:06 jransom ok - 3 is grand.
20:06 slef schuster: hdl_laptop +1d
20:07 slef ok, I think the detail of the subcommittee control procedures should wait for now. Is that OK with everyone?
20:07 jransom ok, so noone is feeling leftout and aggrieved then :)
20:07 schuster Thank you jransom...
20:07 brendan :)
20:07 chris_n slef: agreed
20:07 jransom yes : re subcommittee.
20:07 chris no one who came to the meeting anyway jransom :)
20:07 thd hdl_laptop: so you are happy with those 3?
20:08 jransom i will bring back trustees thoughts on the sub committee
20:08 chris chris-- #stop being grumpy
20:08 munin chris: Error: You're not allowed to adjust your own karma.
20:08 slef ok thanks
20:08 chris_n munin: lol
20:08 thd aye
20:08 munin chris_n: Error: "lol" is not a valid command.
20:08 slef 5. Long term considerations
20:08 schuster jransom - only if they feel they need it.
20:08 slef Anyone want to flag something up at this meeting, or wait for the subcommittee details?
20:08 hdl_laptop thd: yes I am
20:09 chris_n I say we wait
20:09 chris i think wait for details
20:09 slef We've already heard about IFLA affiliation alongside other hosting.
20:09 thd slef did we miss part of 4?
20:09 pianohacker joined #koha
20:09 chris_n I think that was 4
20:09 slef thd: I think 4 is postponed.
20:09 pianohacker hey, #koha
20:09 thd OK
20:09 chris_n pianohacker: meeting time
20:10 slef thd: for now, it was appointing the bob, chris and gmcharlt.
20:10 slef ok, postponing long term considerations to next meeting.
20:10 thd there may be one issue
20:10 slef thd: ok go on
20:10 thd for 4 which we should consider
20:11 thd those with whom a negotiation is being conducted may like to know what type of organisation they will be giving assets.
20:11 thd beyond HLT
20:12 chris oh god
20:12 nicomo thd: why?
20:12 chris_n I think not at the present moment
20:12 chris the perfect stalling tactic
20:12 chris_n HLT == Koha for them
20:12 thd If it comes up in negotiations then the issue can be revisited
20:12 slef well, HLT's involvement puts certain constraints on that by virtue of transferring to other non-profit charities and so on.
20:12 chris_n the long term may become long
20:13 slef I'd be surprised if that was raised, but I guess I'm often surprised.
20:13 jransom we can sell / gift / trade to anyone
20:13 jransom if we wind up we HAVE togift to non profit
20:13 francharb left #koha
20:14 chris we cant go with a short term solution until we know the long term one, i fear that card will be played
20:14 Ropuch Chris is right
20:14 jransom thats bullshit chris
20:14 thd Once we have assets we would need a procedure for using them for community benefit
20:14 jransom we have to do the short term one
20:14 sekjal so, can we officially state that we are going with HLT indefinitely?
20:14 slef I don't really want to reread that blurry PDF.  Wasn't there stuff about powers and purposes in it?
20:14 IrmaCalyx that card could be played :(
20:14 schuster Long term concerns - being a technological group - I think plans should be considered on how to "manage" these assetts and if those that are currently managing them are willing to continue with an open community concept - ie access to servers by outsiders.
20:14 slef sekjal: that wasn't the vote AFAICT
20:15 thd reluctant givers may wish to have an idea about the procedure for use.
20:15 jransom if it has to stay with hLT through community indecision then that will work
20:15 chris schuster: i see that as the role of the subcommittee if/when one is convened
20:15 slef please can we keep the language toned down to typical daytime broadcast level?  Thanks.
20:15 chris_n I think we cross one bridge at a time
20:15 thd slef: yes purposes and powers are there
20:15 sekjal slef: I'm meaning indefinite as 'no definitive timeframe set'
20:15 chris schuster: to my mind that is the main need for HLT to be involved is to restore community access
20:15 jransom I apologise unreservedly for my language
20:15 schuster ok - just throwing it out there since HLT is asking for stuff.
20:15 slef sekjal: ok, sorry. English is broken.
20:16 rhcl is now known as rhcl_away
20:17 slef right, any other comments on long-term concerns?
20:17 chris schuster: well the community is asking HLT to ask for stuff, i bet HLT would rather not have to deal with this at all
20:17 chris i know i would
20:17 schuster I suspect through negotiations many questions will come up -
20:17 jransom ok - hang on.
20:17 slef I'm not sure we can resolve the long-term plan if anyone asks... either the giver can try to constrain it, or it's a stalling tactic and time to walk away, but HLT and advisers can decide.
20:18 chris slef++
20:18 slef jransom: hanging on you
20:18 jransom lets say I am theroetically asked about the long term business plan for the koha community, now that HLT is THE koha nonprofit. and thus worthy / appropriate recipients of community assets
20:18 chris_n slef: right
20:18 schuster slef++
20:18 nicomo and if we had the long term plan ready already, no short time plan would be needed, would it?
20:19 schuster hard to negotiate a long term plan when things are in place and we don't know what the asset holders will propose when asked.
20:19 thd nicomo: a short term plan would be needed as a transition
20:19 jransom because, there already is a koha nonprofit set up in the states.
20:19 chris_n the legitimacy of the motive of most questions in this regard is probably questionable at this point
20:19 slef jransom: I think the long term plan is to spin out into its own independent organisation developed in consultation with the user and developer community.
20:19 jransom by its nature, planning for the long haul.
20:19 schuster is there a US non profit for Koha established?
20:20 slef jransom: I feel that nonprofit could be the Ohio one, or it might not.  It all depends on what happens.
20:20 IrmaCalyx One is always in a short plan situation (until that changes...)
20:20 slef schuster: yes, see wiki link to the Ohio business department.
20:20 thd ;)
20:20 slef schuster: no-one knows its bylaws.  I think the names of liblime and its lawyer are linked to it.
20:20 chris_n the ohio nonprofit is a one-man show imho
20:21 chris i think that might be another reason given not to transfer assets to hlt
20:21 slef chris_n: we have almost no data.
20:21 chris but a ksf already exists
20:21 chris just something to bear in mind, because without doubt it isnt a valid objection
20:21 Nate left #koha
20:21 slef yes, it exists but does not function, which is why we're here
20:21 chris exactly
20:21 Nate joined #koha
20:22 slef If someone pulls a rabbit out of that hat and prevents all of us and HLT doing more work by presenting the perfect answer, then hooray.
20:22 chris :-)
20:22 thd :)
20:22 chris_n we are really second-guessing and speculating at this point
20:22 slef Until then, we must continue
20:22 jransom ok. but the founders of that trust can and probably will ask the question about why our short term solution has more credibilkity than its specially set up trust.
20:22 chris its true chris_n
20:22 slef but this is the chair speaking too much again...
20:23 jransom ok - lets see how we go and tackle the issues as and if they arise
20:23 chris_n jransom: we should burn that bridge when we come to it
20:23 jransom lol
20:23 chris i think slef gave the answer jransom , it isnt actually functioning
20:23 thd jransom: I did not understand your previous statement
20:23 thd about will ask the question
20:24 thd OK now I understand
20:24 slef jransom: well, if someone had set up the Trust for Horowhenua Libraries but it was completely secret and inactive, would that prevent HLT functioning?
20:24 jransom if I was joshua and had established a trust for koha, and owned assets,
20:24 * chris_n thinks the community ultimately has greater inertia than one man or his business
20:24 slef please, hold assets, not owned ;-)
20:25 jransom it is reasonable to want to know the plans of the 'new' trust, a short solution, is theebesttplace for them...
20:25 jransom just warning of alternative viewpoints
20:25 brendan does a filed document for ksf in ohio really = foundation -- or is just intent to form
20:26 slef jransom: I'll take this up with you after.
20:26 jransom slef: cool
20:26 slef brendan: good question.  It would need someone who knows Ohio's laws, charges and habits to say more.
20:26 chris_n I move we move on to the next point of business :-)
20:27 wizzyrea most foundations need a board of directors to function.
20:27 slef like, has that KSF cost anyone anything significant yet?
20:27 brendan we were going to talk with our lawyers to see if that is true
20:27 brendan should we move forward with that?
20:27 sekjal is there anyone associated with the Ohio KSF who can communicate with the community?
20:27 chris liblime's lawyer?
20:27 slef brendan: please, if you have capacity.
20:27 chris thats who's name is on the paper
20:27 slef sekjal: liblime and their lawyer?
20:28 jransom would be helpful to know more
20:28 slef brendan +1
20:28 brendan ok -- we'll let everyone know what we find
20:28 chris +1 also
20:28 chris thank you
20:28 sekjal some attempt to contact the Ohio KSF should probably be made, for due diligence
20:28 chris_n +1
20:28 sekjal yes, brendan++
20:28 IrmaCalyx brendan: if you like I can ask my brother in law who is an attorney in Chicago Ill.
20:28 sekjal remove the "we were never even contacted!" card from the deck
20:29 slef moving on to 6. Agree time of next foundation meeting.  jransom: would you like 1 month exact or a bit more/less?
20:29 gmcharlt IrmaCalyx: and licensed to practice in Ohio?
20:29 thd exact would be a Sunday
20:29 wizzyrea maybe Owen's library has a lawyer they could ask?
20:29 IrmaCalyx gmcharlt: I can ask him as I am not sure
20:29 slef wizzyrea: nice drafting of owen!
20:30 chris_n wizzyrea: how ironic that would be
20:30 schuster That may be an "organisation" that jransom and HLT needs to contact.
20:30 * wizzyrea recognizes the irony. le sigh.
20:30 hdl_laptop thanks brendan
20:30 jransom more or less
20:31 slef ok, are Sundays a problem for people?  I'm minded to launch a poll within 24 hours with a few times to try to find the maximum attendance because I think there's strength in numbers for this topic.  But we can fix a time now if people wish
20:31 chris_n slef: depends on the time
20:31 chris i remember back in the day, in ohio with joshua, stephen and owen, laughing and looking forward to the future ... it was only 2002 but it seems a lifetime ago now
20:31 slef (we're much fewer than 150 people here, which would seem to be the theoretical maximum from the voters)
20:32 sekjal Nov. 29th is the end of holiday weekend in the US
20:32 * chris_n wonders where the others are
20:32 jransom personally reluctant about sundays - but american sundays are our mondays :)
20:32 chris :)
20:32 chris yeah my wife would have me say not weekends if possible
20:32 jransom what about the tuesday after the long weekend
20:32 slef sekjal: what holiday just out of interest?
20:32 chris_n jransom++
20:32 chris thanksgiving?
20:33 thd as sekjal reported Monday after would be a problem
20:33 sekjal slef: Thanksgiving is on the 26th
20:33 chris the best holiday ever
20:33 wizzyrea turkey and sports
20:33 wizzyrea and gravy
20:33 chris_n turkey++
20:33 chris yeah, and no presents
20:33 wizzyrea gravy++
20:33 chris_n gravy++
20:33 chris_n heh
20:33 wizzyrea hehe
20:34 slef oh yeah it was Columbus day I didn't know about last time... ok, so we have a suggestion of Tuesday 1 December - 19 UTC, 10 UTC or something new?
20:34 sekjal I know that I'm out of town the 25th through the 28th
20:34 jransom if people travel for thanks giving is the week after better yet?
20:34 gmcharlt jransom: generally for USians, it is
20:34 jransom then lets makk it 5 weeks - thats cool
20:34 thd yes the week after would be better
20:34 slef so what date?
20:35 chris_n december 3?
20:35 jransom good for me
20:35 chris me too
20:35 thd December 3 should be late enough
20:35 hdl_laptop ok
20:35 jransom or the 10th
20:35 gmcharlt fine with me
20:35 Ropuch ok
20:35 sekjal Dec. 3 for me
20:36 IrmaCalyx Dec. 3 for me
20:36 tajoli for me Dec 3
20:36 cait_laptop ok
20:36 slef ok, 2009-12-03... time?
20:36 jransom this time was brilliant for me ... what about the states?
20:36 chris_n me too
20:36 wizzyrea good for me
20:36 brendan good for me
20:36 gmcharlt yep
20:36 sekjal worked well for me in NYC
20:36 jransom early for Irma and Asia
20:36 chris i think this is crap for india
20:36 chris and early for irma
20:36 jransom as in all of Asia .. and Irma :)
20:36 Gary good for me, same time as today, and 091203
20:37 chris we just should send irma some coffee beans as a thank you :)
20:37 Ropuch It's ok in Europe
20:37 IrmaCalyx No worries 6am start is ok
20:37 thd It would be likely to be better for those present than those absent
20:37 gmcharlt true enough
20:37 chris_n thd: as one might expect :-)
20:37 slef ok, so 1900Z.  If we get a strong request from IrmaCalyx, Amit and whoever, should we vary it at all?
20:38 slef last question, I promise :)
20:38 jransom what happens if we shift it back 3 hours? would make it 10am in NZ
20:38 chris_n forward or backward 3 hours would be fine here
20:38 nicomo not forward please
20:38 thd should we ask them via email?
20:38 sekjal backward would work for me, but not forward
20:38 jransom 9am in australia
20:38 nicomo it's currently 9:40pm here in France
20:38 slef I'm just conscious that I think this would make it 3 in a row at 1900Z.
20:38 jransom and singapore india around 6am ?
20:39 jransom so 1am for france
20:39 chris_n ouch
20:39 chris i think its actually the best time for the majority of people
20:39 jransom best to mix it up - to be fair - but we don't want chris falling asleep on the keyboard again
20:39 nicomo chris: +1
20:39 jransom (took ages for the shift key mark to dissaper :)
20:39 IrmaCalyx If CALYX is the only affected please dont worry about the early start
20:39 wizzyrea 1am, while late, is not SO late
20:39 slef ok, let's wait in response to an email announcing the next date
20:39 chris maybe we need to get some way for the people who cant make it to be able to participate
20:40 chris let them appoint a proxy maybe?
20:40 nicomo wizzyrea: yes, it's actually kind of really early
20:40 chris_n good idea
20:40 slef I'll send that within 24h if no-one beats me.  good idea chris
20:40 slef ok, meeting closed!
20:40 * brendan offers to be a proxy for anyone near my time-zone
20:40 chris thank you very much slef
20:40 IrmaCalyx Is anyone from India online now?
20:40 chris_n tnx slef
20:40 slef thanks all for coming... a lot of difficult topics answered
20:40 chris_n great job
20:40 chris well chaired
20:40 sekjal thanks, slef!  brilliantly chaired
20:40 jransom slef: you did a great job.
20:40 brendan slef++
20:40 nicomo thanks slef
20:40 cait_laptop thx slef
20:41 IrmaCalyx Thanks slef :)
20:41 slef IrmaCalyx: I don't think any announced themselves in the roll call.
20:41 thd wizzyrea: The French may not have all of the crazy late night habits some of us have evolved :)
20:41 hdl_laptop thanks slef
20:41 slef they drink so much strong coffee, they have become immune
20:41 jransom ok - better into the office and rugby tackll my day into submission
20:42 slef no, thanks to every for not slapping me down when I got verbose
20:42 slef jransom: what was I taking up with you now? ;-)
20:42 schuster slef great job.
20:42 gmcharlt thanks slef
20:42 jransom stuff about why LL should transfer assetys to a sort term HLT solution over the Koha foundation they have already set upo.
20:43 jransom but i have to drive to work now.
20:43 slef jransom: oh yes, the Ohio KSF, but I think brendan has made me partially obsolete.
20:43 * chris has missed his bus
20:43 slef ok, talk later or tomoz maybe
20:43 jransom oh never let that be said !
20:43 chris by an hour and 40 mins ...
20:43 chris so i best start walking
20:43 jransom but happy to hear from you and your thoughts on the matter
20:43 slef chris: heh, so not entirely the fault of meeting length
20:43 jransom cya everything
20:43 jransom and thanks for a great meeting
20:44 sekjal thanks, jransom!
20:44 chris slef: naw, the meeting would had to be 10 mins long for me to make it :)
20:44 slef time to go cook dinner for people :)
20:44 slef chris: can you IRC from a phone there?
20:44 jransom left #koha
20:45 thd slef: Do all UK carriers let you use IRC on standard ports?
20:45 chris not if i want to be able to afford to buy food
20:45 Gary left #koha
20:45 slef I'll probably regret this, but it seems easier to moderate an IRC meeting than a physical one where ranters studiously avoid your eye contact when speaking
20:46 slef thd: I don't know. I only have two mobile phones.
20:46 chris_n heh
20:46 slef chris: telecommed? :-/
20:46 pianohacker I personally prefer irc meetings, but I'm a geek
20:46 jwagner left #koha
20:46 thd slef: Do you have affordable unlimited  data plans which would not cause the problem which chris identified?
20:46 IrmaCalyx See you later all...
20:46 chris cya IrmaCalyx
20:46 IrmaCalyx left #koha
20:47 slef thd: no, but I pay 7p/Mb which is fine for IRCing.
20:47 * chris_n heads off to supper
20:47 pianohacker bye chris_n
20:47 slef thd: and the other phone was 50p for up to some number of Gb in a day.
20:47 chris ok im out of here
20:47 chris bbl
20:48 thd slef: I have to make more effort for the wiki vote
20:49 nicomo left #koha
20:49 pianohacker slef: that's very reasonable; unless you spring for an unlimited plan, verizon charges 5 cents/kb
20:50 pianohacker left #koha
20:50 slef thd: Thanks. Me too.
20:50 pianohacker joined #koha
20:51 slef pianohacker: and guess what?  The 7p/Mb one is a co-op
20:53 pianohacker[…]sidential-mobiles ? the co-op idea seems very nice
20:54 tajoli left #koha
20:54 slef that's it... I must chase them up about our broken sales landing page :-/
20:54 slef (links from are 404ing)
20:56 sekjal time for my train.  cheers, #koha
20:56 sekjal left #koha
20:59 slef heh, at least two people voted twice... I need to clean this up and rerun the analyses, but it can't see it changing the results
21:07 schuster left #koha
21:17 wizzyrea ok I have a stumper
21:17 wizzyrea well
21:17 wizzyrea it'll be ez for you all
21:17 wizzyrea I want to hide Transfer, using jquery
21:17 wizzyrea but I don't want to hide Transfers to Receive
21:18 wizzyrea how can I select just Transfer, and not Transfers to Receive
21:18 wizzyrea I can't seem to find a selector that says if bleh IS x, hide
21:18 wizzyrea i found contains
21:19 gmcharlt what is bleh?  an attribute?
21:19 wizzyrea well here
21:19 wizzyrea lemme paste what I've done
21:20 wizzyrea $("#bd li:contains('Transfer')").remove();
21:20 wizzyrea but this removes both Transfer and Transfers to Receive
21:20 wizzyrea now they want to unhide Transfers to Receive, but still hide Transfer
21:20 Sharon they are such a pain in your behind ;-)
21:21 wizzyrea ...sec, i'm going to go look at the yui grids
21:21 wizzyrea (sometimes all I need is to write it out)
21:23 gmcharlt wizzyrea: one thought - if you hide (by changing the visibility of) the elements rather than removing them, you can hide the transnfers, then unhide transfers to receive
21:23 wizzyrea gmcharlt: that is also a good idea
21:24 wizzyrea I shall try both!
21:26 wizzyrea you are thinking something like $("#bd li:contains('Transfers to Receive')").show();
21:27 Nate gnight #koha
21:27 Nate left #koha
21:27 gmcharlt wizzyrea: yes
21:28 wizzyrea so I did $("#bd li:contains('Transfer')").hide();
21:28 wizzyrea and $("#bd li:contains('Transfers to Receive')").show();
21:28 wizzyrea but neither show :(
21:44 cait_laptop wizzyrea you want to hide transfer on circulation page?
21:45 wizzyrea yesm
21:45 wizzyrea just transfer, not transfers to receive
21:46 cait_laptop ok, let me take a look, perhaps I can help
21:50 Topic for #koha is now Discussion channel for the Koha ILS | Next Koha foundation IRC meeting will be held on #koha 3 December 2009 at 19:00 UTC+0 | Time Converter:
21:50 cait_laptop $("#bd li:eq(2)").hide();
21:50 cait_laptop hides the third li element - will break when another link is added on circulation page
21:51 wizzyrea OH !
21:51 wizzyrea very smart
21:51 wizzyrea well, I think, if something gets added there, I'll deal with that
21:51 wizzyrea lemme try
21:53 wizzyrea YAY ty
21:53 wizzyrea I always forget about the indexes
21:53 wizzyrea cait_laptop++
21:54 cait_laptop another solution: $("#bd li a[href=/cgi-bin/koha/circ/branch​]").parent().hide();
21:54 chris back at work
21:55 cait_laptop going to bed - good night :)
21:55 wizzyrea ooh, I like that one too cait
21:56 chris cait_laptop++
21:56 cait_laptop uh
21:56 Sharon left #koha
21:56 cait_laptop owen would now more ways to do it
21:57 wizzyrea but owen's not here ^.^
21:57 cait_laptop jquery++
21:57 chris_n2[…]torized-la-z-boy/
21:58 cait_laptop ok, near to falling asleep here - bye chris, wizzyrea and rest of #koha
21:58 cait_laptop left #koha
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22:37 irma left #koha
22:37 chris what a day
22:37 chris crazy emails, a good meeting, winning tickets to the semi final, realising i cant go, giving the tickets to russel
22:38 richard but russel hates rugby  ;)
22:38 chris heh
22:40 chris_n2 chris: I had written a response email, got called away before sending it, thought about it while away, deleted it when I got back... ;-)
22:40 chris good call :)
22:41 chris i dont think joshua can possibly be serious, glass houses, throwing stones, 2 years late and all that .. he has to be just baiting
22:41 chris_n2 I agree there
22:42 chris_n2 he must have more time on his hands lately
22:42 chris_n2 which would be better used submitting bug fixes instead of complaining
22:42 chris_n2 opps
22:42 chris well that was my response
22:42 chris that i deleted
22:42 chris "send a patch"
22:42 chris_n2 me too
22:42 chris_n2 heh
22:43 richard not long now until the interweb becomes self aware.....
22:43 richard Forty years ago, on Oct. 29, 1969, the world entered a new era. A Menlo Park, Calif., outpost of ARPANET, the packet-switched network predecessor of the Internet, received the first ever communication between one computer and another.
22:43 chris heh
22:44 chris_n2 wow... I was a little over 5 months old
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23:30 brendan afternoon everyone
23:30 brendan errr..  good afternoon
23:56 IrmaCalyx left #koha

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