| Time |
S |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:01 |
|
chris |
hi brendan |
| 00:01 |
|
brendan |
greetings chris |
| 00:01 |
|
brendan |
going home in a hour to watch game 2 |
| 00:01 |
|
brendan |
got it recording again :) |
| 00:02 |
|
brendan |
first messing with some MARC |
| 00:03 |
|
chris |
:) |
| 00:20 |
|
hdl_laptop |
good night |
| 00:20 |
|
chris |
sleep well |
| 00:24 |
|
brendan |
cya hdl_laptop |
| 01:02 |
|
chris |
http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Sirs[…]ologies,_Sep_2009 |
| 01:02 |
|
brendan |
http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Sirs[…]ogies%2C_Sep_2009 |
| 01:02 |
|
brendan |
heh -- had the same thought |
| 01:02 |
|
chris |
heh |
| 01:02 |
|
chris |
i should tweet it |
| 01:03 |
|
brendan |
race you :) |
| 01:03 |
|
brendan |
you win |
| 01:03 |
|
brendan |
I gotta head home in a minute |
| 01:04 |
|
chris |
done |
| 01:08 |
|
chris |
is that step 3 of gandhi's famous saying |
| 01:09 |
|
richard |
some outrageous stuff in that pdf |
| 01:09 |
|
chris |
yeah, typical proprietary vendor FUD |
| 01:09 |
|
chris |
thank goodness for wikileaks |
| 01:09 |
|
richard |
yeah |
| 01:09 |
|
brendan |
cya you all in a bit |
| 01:09 |
|
brendan |
let's go baseball |
| 01:10 |
|
chris |
:) |
| 01:10 |
|
richard |
looks like they are really, really frightened of evergreen |
| 01:10 |
|
chris |
it sure does |
| 01:20 |
|
|
brendan left #koha |
| 01:20 |
|
chris |
"States Department of Defense, restrict the use of open source software for fear that it could pose a terrorist opportunity. |
| 01:21 |
|
chris |
the next thing they will be saying that only paedophiles use open source software |
| 01:26 |
|
richard |
i guess the commie line isn't that useful anymore - especially since castro retired |
| 01:27 |
|
chris |
heh |
| 01:32 |
|
* chris_n2 |
wanders back |
| 01:33 |
|
chris_n2 |
amazing... both of the links above are dead from here |
| 01:33 |
|
chris |
http://ur1.ca/er73 |
| 01:34 |
|
chris |
that work? |
| 01:35 |
|
chris_n2 |
nope :-( |
| 01:35 |
|
chris_n2 |
times out |
| 01:35 |
|
chris |
k hows this |
| 01:36 |
|
chris_n2 |
doesn't DBIx::Class::Schema::Loader pick up relationships? |
| 01:36 |
|
chris |
http://88.80.16.63/leak/sirsid[…]n-open-source.pdf |
| 01:36 |
|
chris |
i think so |
| 01:36 |
|
chris_n2 |
maybe its catalyst that misses the relationships |
| 01:37 |
|
chris_n2 |
or maybe its my ignorance of things |
| 01:37 |
|
chris_n2 |
got the pdf |
| 01:42 |
|
|
brendan joined #koha |
| 01:46 |
|
* chris_n2 |
did not realize that a library running Koha or EG would need to convert all of their win32 desktops to *nix desktops... |
| 01:46 |
|
chris_n2 |
but that seems to be what this article says |
| 01:46 |
|
chris |
yeah |
| 01:47 |
|
chris |
someone needs to annotate it, point by point |
| 01:47 |
|
chris_n2 |
there's a latin term for stating a point and then citing irrelevant examples to support it |
| 01:49 |
|
chris_n2 |
hmmm.... here goes the dsl |
| 01:53 |
|
pianohacker |
hahahahah |
| 01:53 |
|
pianohacker |
I lived through sirsi's saas platform |
| 01:53 |
|
pianohacker |
it worked through _remote desktop_ and was unavailable so often that our library had to install an offline circ client |
| 01:54 |
|
chris |
yeah, they arent being sued because they offer a good product their customers like |
| 01:54 |
|
pianohacker |
remote desktop! we had to upgrade our internet connection to support it! |
| 01:54 |
|
* pianohacker |
fumes |
| 01:57 |
|
pianohacker |
i also question the assumption that the us miltary's use of sirsi products is a point in either institution's favor |
| 01:57 |
|
chris |
i guarantee you |
| 01:57 |
|
chris |
the military have hte source code for their missile silos |
| 01:57 |
|
chris |
i guarantee thats not some blackbox proprietary crap software |
| 01:58 |
|
pianohacker |
if they have any clue what they're doing (not a guarantee, but i do sincerely hope so) |
| 01:58 |
|
chris |
thd said to me, they may not share it with us, but they have it |
| 01:58 |
|
pianohacker |
yup |
| 01:58 |
|
chris |
also |
| 01:59 |
|
chris |
http://brlcad.org/d/about |
| 01:59 |
|
chris |
For more than 20 years, BRL-CAD has been the primary tri-service solid modeling CAD system used by the U.S. military to model weapons systems for vulnerability and lethality analyses. |
| 01:59 |
|
|
chris_n2 left #koha |
| 02:00 |
|
pianohacker |
yup. non-intuitive ui, but very good at what it does, and open source |
| 02:00 |
|
chris |
yep |
| 02:01 |
|
mason |
lol 'Caveat emptor! ' |
| 02:01 |
|
mason |
hows that for FUD... :/ |
| 02:05 |
|
pianohacker |
"simply put, we do not use lies and overexaggerations against products that don't compete with us" |
| 02:05 |
|
chris |
they said that? |
| 02:07 |
|
pianohacker |
no, riffing off a paragraph in the conclusion about linux, firefox, etc |
| 02:07 |
|
chris |
ahhh |
| 02:07 |
|
chris |
ahh |
| 02:07 |
|
chris |
i see |
| 02:08 |
|
chris |
im just shaking my head |
| 02:10 |
|
pianohacker |
the fact that sirsidynix published it just makes the claims that much more amazing |
| 02:10 |
|
pianohacker |
though the other proprietary ils companies, some of which know what they're doing, probably don't need to resort to things like this |
| 02:11 |
|
chris |
yeah |
| 02:12 |
|
chris |
if you have a product that isnt shite, and customers who dont hate you |
| 02:12 |
|
chris |
you dont need to do this |
| 02:15 |
|
|
ebegin joined #koha |
| 02:15 |
|
ebegin |
Hey #koha! |
| 02:15 |
|
chris |
hi ebegin |
| 02:15 |
|
ebegin |
long time :) |
| 02:15 |
|
chris |
yep, hows things? |
| 02:16 |
|
ebegin |
Good... but busy, which is good by itself :) |
| 02:16 |
|
chris |
yep :) |
| 02:16 |
|
pianohacker |
hi, ebegin |
| 02:17 |
|
chris_n |
wow major weirdness with my dsl |
| 02:17 |
|
chris_n |
any ip on the isp's subnets are ok, but the Internet is gone |
| 02:17 |
|
chris_n |
must be a fiber cut |
| 02:18 |
|
* ebegin |
trying to find a way to debug Koha. Since a while, I have a deep recursion on subroutine "utf8::SWASHNEW" as soon as I have a script error in my .pl files |
| 02:18 |
|
chris |
hmm dont thing ive seen that happen before ebegin |
| 02:18 |
|
chris |
chris_n: could be just an edge router gone |
| 02:18 |
|
chris_n |
vpn to the rescue |
| 02:18 |
|
ebegin |
How come I always have strange errors... :) |
| 02:18 |
|
pianohacker |
ebegin: I've seen that happen with some syntax/compilation errors |
| 02:19 |
|
pianohacker |
try running the script in question from a terminal |
| 02:19 |
|
chris_n |
could be since I'm vpn'd to a circuit on the same isp and it still has Inet access |
| 02:19 |
|
chris_n |
ebegin: I've seen that before too |
| 02:20 |
|
chris_n |
mostly with tight-loops |
| 02:20 |
|
ebegin |
pianohacker, yeah, I know that this is my error... good point to run it through the command line... |
| 02:20 |
|
chris_n |
chris: a wrenched article that |
| 02:21 |
|
pianohacker |
ebegin: it seems to be some weirdness with Carp::die, as utf8::SWASHNEW and Carp::die seem to call each other in a neverending chain |
| 02:21 |
|
chris_n |
they sound afraid of open source |
| 02:21 |
|
pianohacker |
not sure why |
| 02:22 |
|
chris |
chris_n: yep, terrified |
| 02:22 |
|
pianohacker |
chris_n: they should be, given their recent move to replace Horizon (bad) with Symphony (reportedly actually worse) |
| 02:22 |
|
chris |
*nod* |
| 02:22 |
|
ebegin |
I remember that we can get the error listed directly in the browser. Anybody knows how? |
| 02:24 |
|
chris_n |
ebegin: have you consulted 'top' to see if your script is still hung... out of curiosity |
| 02:24 |
|
pianohacker |
ebegin: you can change the DebugLevel syspref to 2, but that seems to break in these situations too |
| 02:25 |
|
chris_n |
vnc viewer via vpn is like working in a room full of jello... :-P |
| 02:25 |
|
ebegin |
chris_n, I have this problem when I have a simple syntax error actually... |
| 02:28 |
|
ebegin |
Well, of course when I run the script from the command line, I get the redirection to the login screen... :( |
| 02:29 |
|
pianohacker |
ebegin: yup, though it's only certain errors that trigger it |
| 02:32 |
|
|
chris_n2 joined #koha |
| 02:32 |
|
chris_n2 |
and we're back |
| 02:32 |
|
chris |
:) |
| 02:32 |
|
chris_n2 |
it appears to have been a dns outage |
| 02:33 |
|
* chris_n2 |
wipes the jello off ;-) |
| 02:33 |
|
ebegin |
be back soon |
| 02:35 |
|
chris_n2 |
opendns to the rescue |
| 02:38 |
|
chris_n2 |
ok, off to sleep early for a change... g'night |
| 02:39 |
|
chris |
night |
| 03:29 |
|
|
Amit joined #koha |
| 03:29 |
|
Amit |
hi |
| 03:29 |
|
Amit |
chirs |
| 03:29 |
|
Amit |
hi chris |
| 03:29 |
|
Amit |
good morning #koha |
| 03:29 |
|
Amit |
heya brendan |
| 03:34 |
|
richard |
hiya amit |
| 03:40 |
|
Amit |
hi richard |
| 04:18 |
|
|
richard left #koha |
| 04:41 |
|
ebegin |
Hi Amit! |
| 04:50 |
|
|
brendan left #koha |
| 04:53 |
|
|
anasha joined #koha |
| 05:04 |
|
* ebegin |
just discovered the "perl -wc script.pl" option... it check your script for syntax errors without running it. |
| 05:11 |
|
|
mahesh joined #koha |
| 05:12 |
|
mahesh |
hello |
| 05:13 |
|
mahesh |
i have small problem with koha3+ldap setup . |
| 05:13 |
|
mahesh |
i put update and replicate to 0 in koha-conf but koha is still updating the tables |
| 06:02 |
|
pianohacker |
mahesh: you might want to ask on the mailing list, most everyone is asleep at the moment |
| 06:02 |
|
pianohacker |
on that note, good night |
| 06:02 |
|
|
pianohacker left #koha |
| 06:10 |
|
|
indradg joined #koha |
| 06:12 |
|
|
greenmang0 joined #koha |
| 06:47 |
|
Ropuch |
Morning |
| 06:53 |
|
|
nicomo joined #koha |
| 06:54 |
|
|
magnusenger joined #koha |
| 07:00 |
|
|
brendan joined #koha |
| 07:01 |
|
nicomo |
hello all |
| 07:02 |
|
Ropuch |
Hi nicomo |
| 07:15 |
|
ebegin |
good nighe all! |
| 07:16 |
|
magnusenger |
hiya #koha! |
| 07:18 |
|
Ropuch |
hello magnusenger |
| 07:18 |
|
magnusenger |
hello Ropuch |
| 07:20 |
|
magnusenger |
must get some breakfast... |
| 07:22 |
|
chris |
hi europe |
| 07:23 |
|
chris |
i guess you have all seen the sirsi dynix attack on open source already? |
| 07:29 |
|
Ropuch |
I'm readinhg atm |
| 07:31 |
|
chris |
its remarkable in a lot of ways, mostly that for a trained librarian you think he would know to cite his quotations |
| 07:31 |
|
|
laurence joined #koha |
| 07:35 |
|
Ropuch |
chris: yuo |
| 07:36 |
|
Ropuch |
yes. I mean: if it comes to "let-me-reveal-you-the-truth-behind" bulshit it's rarely supplied with citations |
| 07:36 |
|
chris |
exactly |
| 07:39 |
|
chris |
there are some real doozies in there, including calling equinox a proprietary company, and PINES stupid |
| 07:39 |
|
chris |
they must be panicking |
| 07:40 |
|
Ropuch |
Being considered as possible threat is a compliment |
| 07:40 |
|
|
AmitG joined #koha |
| 07:40 |
|
Ropuch |
We even deserve 12p color brochure! |
| 07:41 |
|
AmitG |
hi ropuch |
| 07:42 |
|
Ropuch |
"Generally there will be significant limitations to the hardware and operating system options. " |
| 07:42 |
|
Ropuch |
hehehe |
| 07:43 |
|
Ropuch |
Oh geez, this paper is like a post on tennagers forum |
| 07:43 |
|
Ropuch |
s/tennagers/teenagers |
| 07:44 |
|
chris |
Ropuch: yeah |
| 07:44 |
|
chris |
the latest spin now is that they always meant it to be public |
| 07:44 |
|
chris |
which flies against what they told a lot of people |
| 07:45 |
|
|
Amit left #koha |
| 07:45 |
|
chris |
i think instead of PINES writing evegreen being a big strategic error, this white paper was the strategic error |
| 07:46 |
|
|
kf joined #koha |
| 07:46 |
|
kf |
good morning #koha |
| 07:47 |
|
Ropuch |
Guten tag, kf |
| 07:47 |
|
Ropuch |
:) |
| 07:47 |
|
kf |
guten Tag, Ropuch! |
| 07:48 |
|
Ropuch |
Aaah, nouns start with capitals, you've got me! |
| 07:48 |
|
chris |
heh |
| 07:49 |
|
chris |
wie gehts? |
| 07:49 |
|
kf |
did not want to correct you, I have great respect for everybody trying to learn German! |
| 07:49 |
|
kf |
chris: gut, und dir? ;) |
| 07:50 |
|
Ropuch |
kf: no no - just look at my english: it's because people didn't want to correct me |
| 07:50 |
|
Ropuch |
So - have no mercy! ;> |
| 07:50 |
|
chris |
auch gut |
| 07:50 |
|
chris |
(can you say it like that kf?) |
| 07:50 |
|
kf |
perfect chris |
| 07:50 |
|
chris |
yay i remembered something |
| 07:51 |
|
kf |
I got the German MARC21 translation today... |
| 07:52 |
|
kf |
chris: will MARC21 labels be included in translation or does it make sense to translate sql files? |
| 07:52 |
|
chris |
i remember when i was in vienna people would say gruss gott (spelling?) instead of guten tag |
| 07:52 |
|
chris |
kf: at this stage translate the sql files |
| 07:53 |
|
chris |
they have been done for ukranian and russian and seem to work well, ricardo is doing portuguese |
| 07:53 |
|
kf |
chris: ok, one more big task for my long todo list :) |
| 07:53 |
|
chris |
:) |
| 07:53 |
|
chris |
i know the feeling |
| 07:54 |
|
chris |
whats the famous austrian cake? sachre torte? |
| 07:54 |
|
kf |
what about new fields and subfields? we added fields (according to marc21 standard) for linking of authorities and bibs |
| 07:54 |
|
kf |
I dont know austria so well... but sachertorte seems possible |
| 07:54 |
|
chris |
hmmm i think translate those too |
| 07:55 |
|
chris |
http://photos.bigballofwax.co.[…]hp?g2_itemId=3941 |
| 07:55 |
|
kf |
they are not in the official framework right now |
| 07:55 |
|
chris |
you were right :) |
| 07:55 |
|
chris |
(thats from when we were installing Koha at the UN) |
| 07:56 |
|
kf |
you make me hungry with photos like this! :) |
| 07:56 |
|
chris |
kf: you might want to email thd about those, he knows more about marc than any person i know |
| 07:56 |
|
chris |
i think he will want them in the official framework toot |
| 07:57 |
|
chris |
too even |
| 07:57 |
|
kf |
ok, more work *sigh* ;) |
| 07:58 |
|
chris |
hehe sorry |
| 07:58 |
|
hdl_laptop |
hi |
| 07:58 |
|
thd |
kf: there is an important problem for use of the Koha MARC 21 frameworks in Germany |
| 07:58 |
|
thd |
kf: the frameworks are out of date. |
| 07:58 |
|
chris |
say MARC and thd comes running :-) |
| 07:59 |
|
chris |
i think kf has been fixing them thd, to bring them up to date more |
| 07:59 |
|
chris |
hi hdl_laptop :) |
| 07:59 |
|
kf |
hi thd |
| 07:59 |
|
thd |
kf: I have a not quite complete and uncommitted update from over a year ago |
| 07:59 |
|
thd |
kf: hhello |
| 08:00 |
|
thd |
kf: have you updated the frameworks for MAB2 unification? |
| 08:00 |
|
kf |
thd: we have hebrew in 880 in our catalog, so we added some fields for that, and fields for linking of bibs, 775? 773? my colleague did that, but perhaps I can work something out, just dont know when |
| 08:00 |
|
|
Kivutar joined #koha |
| 08:01 |
|
thd |
kf: I have the MAB2 unification uncommitted. |
| 08:01 |
|
kf |
thd: we get marc21 from our union catalog, but this is very new, koha is the first ils in our consortia to work with marc21 |
| 08:01 |
|
kf |
thd: not sure if I understand what a MAB2 unification is? |
| 08:01 |
|
thd |
kf: are you in Germany? |
| 08:01 |
|
kf |
thd: yes :) |
| 08:02 |
|
thd |
kf: I assume that you are familiar with MAB2 |
| 08:02 |
|
kf |
and I know of mab2 of course, but not sure about the unification |
| 08:02 |
|
kf |
I am not an expert, but I have seen some mab2 records |
| 08:03 |
|
|
francharb joined #koha |
| 08:04 |
|
thd |
Unification is the process which USMARC went through to add CANMARC, UKMARC, and now MAB2 to form MARC 21 adding fields and subfields needed for conversion of records in the previous local semantics. |
| 08:04 |
|
kf |
ah ok |
| 08:05 |
|
thd |
The most significant issue for MAB2 unification is treatment of authority field links to a record ID in $0 for authority fields. |
| 08:05 |
|
kf |
I know they were some additions to marc21 requested from Germany |
| 08:06 |
|
thd |
Koha uses local use $9 for the record linking purpose but only internally within Koha. |
| 08:06 |
|
kf |
thd: yes, but we convert our data and copy it to $9 without the last number (can be x) to make it work with koha right now |
| 08:06 |
|
kf |
its works very well |
| 08:06 |
|
thd |
kf: If you have converted then there is no problem. |
| 08:07 |
|
kf |
its more difficult to make hierarchies between records work |
| 08:07 |
|
kf |
I cant explain that well... the ids are in $w |
| 08:08 |
|
kf |
we added an index to koha and are working on the xslt-stylesheets to make the linking work |
| 08:08 |
|
thd |
kf: you should merely be aware that using web based record import, internal Koha record editor, or internal Koha Z39.50 client will use the Koha MARC frameworks to act as filter for the data. |
| 08:08 |
|
|
nahuel joined #koha |
| 08:09 |
|
thd |
kf: any of those activities will loose data for any subfield not properly defined in the Koha MARC frameworks. |
| 08:09 |
|
kf |
so you can lose data when the fields are not defined in the framework? |
| 08:09 |
|
chris |
thd++ #for doing the minutes |
| 08:09 |
|
kf |
hm, I did not experience that so far, but perhaps we were just lucky |
| 08:10 |
|
thd |
kf: If you import with bulkmarcimport.pl and never alter the records you safely avoid the frameworks filter. |
| 08:10 |
|
kf |
ok, this need some more thought then... my todo list starts making me feel dizzy |
| 08:10 |
|
thd |
kf: you would only notice a problem for the newest fields and subfields which are absent from the frameworks |
| 08:11 |
|
thd |
kf: Most libraries would never notice. |
| 08:11 |
|
kf |
we already added some of them and missed nothing so far... but I should take a closer look at this for sure |
| 08:11 |
|
thd |
kf: German libraries may have a special issue for recent changes. |
| 08:12 |
|
thd |
kf: The reason I did not commit my last incomplete update is that I have tried to keep all the various books, serials, etc. frameworks coordinated which is much work. |
| 08:13 |
|
kf |
yes, but I think an update would be necessary and important |
| 08:13 |
|
thd |
I had not wanted to commit a set to which the update had not been uniformly applied. |
| 08:13 |
|
thd |
I know that it was a mistake. |
| 08:14 |
|
thd |
Fixing it now is even more work because there were a few changes and more updates since I was last working on it. |
| 08:14 |
|
thd |
MARC 21 frameworks turned into an unfunded mandate for me. |
| 08:15 |
|
kf |
hm should koha default framework include all fields and subfields from marc21 standard? |
| 08:16 |
|
thd |
We should think of an easier process to maintain them using only diffs from the default framework. |
| 08:16 |
|
kf |
or is it a selection of fields that are really used |
| 08:16 |
|
thd |
kf: There is a selection only to make the record editor not overloaded with the whole standard. |
| 08:16 |
|
kf |
I can perhaps do some work on default framework, but we dont use other frameworks (cataloging is done in union catalog, so no need for them) |
| 08:17 |
|
thd |
There are a set of hidden values which will populate the record editor if the record already contains those subfields. |
| 08:19 |
|
thd |
If you do all your cataloguing remotely then you do not have much of a problem unless you might upload your records from the local system to the remote one. |
| 08:19 |
|
thd |
s/remotely/remotely on the union catalogue/ |
| 08:19 |
|
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|Lupin| joined #koha |
| 08:20 |
|
|Lupin| |
hello |
| 08:22 |
|
kf |
but we use staged import for updates |
| 08:22 |
|
thd |
kf: I have some programs for capturing frameworks on an installed system. Making a diff to update translations would be relatively easy. |
| 08:22 |
|
kf |
so we can lose data we might need later (when we try to make all those linkings work) |
| 08:23 |
|
chris |
hi |Lupin| |
| 08:23 |
|
thd |
kf: it had been considered a record simplification feature and not a bug by the original programmer of the frameworks |
| 08:24 |
|
kf |
thd: I think its ok, but I was not aware of it |
| 08:24 |
|
|Lupin| |
hello chris |
| 08:24 |
|
|Lupin| |
gutne morgen kf |
| 08:25 |
|
kf |
thd: its not so bad, as all the data is in our union catalog and we can get them easily to update records in koha |
| 08:25 |
|
kf |
guten morgen Lupin :) |
| 08:25 |
|
thd |
kf: it would be difficult to spot and if you are using MARC 21 records as they had been used before MAB2 unification then there may be no use of the new subfields. |
| 08:27 |
|
thd |
kf: The MAB2 unification issue had been largely for DDB and other libraries sharing the same records with the same use of authority control. |
| 08:27 |
|
kf |
thd: we have all German features in our MARC21 records |
| 08:28 |
|
thd |
kf: Do you have a link for me to your union catalogue where I can see the full MARC records? |
| 08:28 |
|
kf |
thd: sorry, you cant see them there, you would need a cataloging client to see them |
| 08:28 |
|
kf |
its an export format |
| 08:28 |
|
kf |
different form the internal format |
| 08:29 |
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thd |
do you mean a Z39.50 client? |
| 08:29 |
|
kf |
http://swb.bsz-bw.de |
| 08:30 |
|
kf |
z39.50 will be available later, its in testing now |
| 08:30 |
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paul_p joined #koha |
| 08:31 |
|
kf |
we can get data for import in different export formats, different MARC21 formats even, there is an export format for worldcat and one which includes MAB2 unification |
| 08:32 |
|
|Lupin| |
I have records with item fields but which are not bound to real items. Their itemnumber is 0. I tried to get ried of them by deleting the records and then calling ModBiblio but this does not seem to work. Any suggestion, please ? |
| 08:33 |
|
thd |
kf: there is no MARC display for the catalogue to which you linked. |
| 08:33 |
|
thd |
or at least I found none. |
| 08:34 |
|
kf |
thd: you are right, perhaps I can send you some records |
| 08:34 |
|
Ropuch |
"However, it should be stated that customization is not without risk. Extensive customization, especially with potentially little or no documentation can make upgrades and changes increasingly difficult." |
| 08:34 |
|
kf |
thd: marc21 view is only available in cataloging client |
| 08:34 |
|
|Lupin| |
thd: can't you use KOha to catch some record s in Marc ? |
| 08:34 |
|
kf |
oh |
| 08:35 |
|
kf |
hfjs.bsz-bw.de |
| 08:35 |
|
Ropuch |
Uh - "beware of tea: it can burn your throat" |
| 08:35 |
|
kf |
marc21 view is deactivated (library was confused by it, but you can use download) |
| 08:35 |
|
thd |
kf: send some records which have not passed through Koha to me at koha AT agogme.com |
| 08:36 |
|
chris |
@quote add < Ropuch> Uh - "beware of tea: it can burn your throat" |
| 08:36 |
|
munin |
chris: The operation succeeded. Quote #43 added. |
| 08:36 |
|
chris |
hi paul_p |
| 08:36 |
|
paul_p |
hi chris |
| 08:37 |
|
paul_p |
( you could not stay quiet at the end ;-) ) |
| 08:37 |
|
thd |
|Lupin| yes Koha has a Z39.50 client but the records captured with it pass through the frameworks as a filter. |
| 08:37 |
|
|Lupin| |
chris: any idea how I can lceanup this faulty items, pls ? |
| 08:37 |
|
|Lupin| |
chris: I think I added them by mistake when I wrote the scripts to import our stuff in KOha... |
| 08:38 |
|
thd |
|Lupin| Is your system live? |
| 08:38 |
|
Ropuch |
chris: I'm just rereading the SirsixDynix comedy ;> |
| 08:38 |
|
|Lupin| |
thd: not yet |
| 08:38 |
|
thd |
|Lupin| Rewrite your scripts and start again. |
| 08:38 |
|
kf |
thd: ok, added you to my todo list |
| 08:38 |
|
|Lupin| |
thd: I was referring to the download facility offered on OPAC.... |
| 08:39 |
|
|Lupin| |
thd: they work now |
| 08:39 |
|
chris |
paul_p: i didnt respond to joshua :) |
| 08:39 |
|
|Lupin| |
thd: the problem is to remove the old stuff from the DB |
| 08:39 |
|
paul_p |
chris: right. |
| 08:39 |
|
thd |
|Lupin| You can purge the DB of records and reimport. |
| 08:40 |
|
kf |
chris: did I miss one of your mails? |
| 08:40 |
|
thd |
|Lupin| The biggest problem is purging Zebra to avoid ghost records. |
| 08:40 |
|
|Lupin| |
thd: I don't want to remove the records completely. I just would liek to remove the faulty item fields they have |
| 08:40 |
|
chris |
kf: i think paul is referring to my emails with ben |
| 08:40 |
|
chris |
|Lupin|: there is no easy way to do that |
| 08:40 |
|
thd |
|Lupin| I have had trouble removing phantom items in the past. |
| 08:41 |
|
|Lupin| |
chris: hmm.. and how about non-easy ways ? |
| 08:41 |
|
thd |
|Lupin| You could alter the database directly, however, starting again might be better if you have not gone live. |
| 08:42 |
|
chris |
|Lupin|: you cant get to the edit item screen in koha? and delete them there? |
| 08:42 |
|
|Lupin| |
thd: ctually... the thing may not affect zebra because the final koha will run on another machine with another zebra db... |
| 08:42 |
|
thd |
|Lupin| Then you are safe from any mysterious Zebra phantoms. |
| 08:43 |
|
|Lupin| |
chris: there are too many ! |
| 08:43 |
|
chris |
then i think thd is right, starting again |
| 08:43 |
|
|Lupin| |
chris: but if that would work, well... then there sholc be a way to achieve the result through the perl API, no ? |
| 08:44 |
|
chris |
yes but you will have to right a special script |
| 08:44 |
|
chris |
and build a list of all the items to delete |
| 08:44 |
|
|Lupin| |
chris: that's not a problem < |
| 08:44 |
|
chris |
might be faster to just delete and reimport |
| 08:44 |
|
|Lupin| |
chris: I already wrote many scripts to do similar things |
| 08:45 |
|
|Lupin| |
chris: I'm just asking which function to call, since my script that deleted the fields from the MARC records and then called ModBiblio seemed to fail |
| 08:45 |
|
thd |
|Lupin| It could be a fun exercise but there are other things with which you could have fun. |
| 08:45 |
|
|Lupin| |
chris: no, reimport would not be _that_ easy... |
| 08:45 |
|
chris |
paul_p: translations work fine for me |
| 08:46 |
|
paul_p |
strange... ( but i'm happy to see that the problem was fixed ) |
| 08:46 |
|
chris |
i had tested them all before the release |
| 08:47 |
|
chris |
and just redid german now |
| 08:48 |
|
|Lupin| |
http://pastebin.com/f4ef9cfcc |
| 08:48 |
|
chris |
|Lupin|: yeah you dont want to do that |
| 08:48 |
|
chris |
you want to use delitem |
| 08:48 |
|
|Lupin| |
that's the cleanupitems script I used... |
| 08:48 |
|
|Lupin| |
can anyone see something faulty with that ? |
| 08:48 |
|
chris |
deleting fields from the marc is the wrong way to do it |
| 08:49 |
|
|Lupin| |
chris: but the itemnumbers are 0 in all the MARC fields.. and I fear the items have already been deleted... |
| 08:49 |
|
|Lupin| |
(frm the items table) |
| 08:50 |
|
thd |
|Lupin| you may have phantoms |
| 08:51 |
|
|Lupin| |
thd: yeah |
| 08:51 |
|
thd |
|Lupin| exorcism can be painful |
| 08:53 |
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Colin joined #koha |
| 08:54 |
|
chris |
hi Colin |
| 08:58 |
|
Colin |
Hi Chris |
| 09:00 |
|
Colin |
Someone just pointed out something Abram hints at. Theres probably more sirsidynix experience in the koha and evergreen communites than in SD |
| 09:00 |
|
chris |
yes, someone should say "maybe the better questions is why have all these people left SD" |
| 09:24 |
|
paul_p |
what annoys me the most with Sirsi pdf is that they just speak of LL, once again (and, of course, they don't say you can choose your vendor, that would be hard to explain it's a problem...) |
| 09:26 |
|
chris |
i dont think there is anything that doesnt annoy me about that pdf |
| 09:27 |
|
Ropuch |
chris++ |
| 09:27 |
|
Ropuch |
Every paragraph makes "wtf?!" |
| 09:28 |
|
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CGI383 joined #koha |
| 09:28 |
|
Ropuch |
But, looking from different view, thsi pdf is really treasure chest with funny statements ;> |
| 09:28 |
|
gmcharlt |
paul_p: well, they do mention Equinox as the other 'proprietary' vendor |
| 09:29 |
|
paul_p |
gmcharlt: yep. Sorry. I meaned " speak only of LL for Koha" |
| 09:29 |
|
chris |
is there anything factually correct in there? only the stuff lifted from wikipedia without citation i think |
| 09:29 |
|
gmcharlt |
and of course, only ESI for EG is just as wrong - there are other vendors playing in that space |
| 09:30 |
|
paul_p |
a fun question to ask : "you say why does OSS companies hire so many SD alumni ? But why are they SD alumni?" :D |
| 09:31 |
|
gmcharlt |
*cough*two-year noncompetes*cough* |
| 09:32 |
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CGI383 left #koha |
| 09:33 |
|
chris |
yep, i find it funny in its absurdity Ropuch |
| 09:35 |
|
Ropuch |
chris: "Nevertheless, it should be noted that it is rare for completely open source projects to be successful." ;> |
| 09:36 |
|
chris |
yeah, that apache malarky is never gonna catch on |
| 09:36 |
|
Ropuch |
I just don't know what to do: cry or laugh |
| 09:37 |
|
Ropuch |
(writing this on OS gnome-terminal ;-) |
| 09:38 |
|
gmcharlt |
anybody know offhand if SirsiDynix ILSs use Apache as their web server? |
| 09:38 |
|
Colin |
gmcharlt:yes |
| 09:39 |
|
chris |
pianohacker summed it up well |
| 09:40 |
|
chris |
< pianohacker> "simply put, we do not use lies and overexaggerations against products that don't compete with us" |
| 09:41 |
|
chris |
wrt the we dont hate all open source |
| 09:41 |
|
chris |
last paragraph |
| 09:42 |
|
chris |
i also liked colin's tweet |
| 09:42 |
|
chris |
http://twitter.com/cscaim/status/5282608996 |
| 09:49 |
|
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nahuel left #koha |
| 09:51 |
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|Lupin| |
someone knows the syntax to disable foreign key checks in mysql, pls ? |
| 09:53 |
|
hdl_laptop |
SET FOREIGN_KEY_CHECKS=0 |
| 09:53 |
|
Ropuch |
I want to buy a good & up-to-date library science encyclopedia/dictionary, can you recommend me something? |
| 09:53 |
|
hdl_laptop |
odlis.org |
| 09:54 |
|
Ropuch |
I know odlis ;> |
| 09:54 |
|
|Lupin| |
thanks hdl_laptop ! |
| 09:54 |
|
Ropuch |
My boss said I should have some boks for myself, so i bought "MODx Web Development" ;> |
| 09:57 |
|
|Lupin| |
Ropuch: what's MODx ? |
| 10:01 |
|
Ropuch |
It's a CMS |
| 10:01 |
|
Ropuch |
My latest love |
| 10:01 |
|
|Lupin| |
Ropuch: never heard about it... |
| 10:04 |
|
Ropuch |
There's so many CMS around you can't know just everyone ;> |
| 10:04 |
|
Ropuch |
http://php.opensourcecms.com/s[…]s.php?scriptid=48 |
| 10:04 |
|
Ropuch |
They have a demo here |
| 10:04 |
|
|
nahuel joined #koha |
| 10:11 |
|
|Lupin| |
Ropuch: thanks |
| 10:12 |
|
|Lupin| |
Ropuch: actually I saw it uses ajax, and since I'm a lynx ser I assume it won't be very useful to me... |
| 10:12 |
|
Ropuch |
Guess not ;> |
| 10:15 |
|
Ropuch |
Why not elinks? |
| 10:25 |
|
chris |
night all |
| 10:28 |
|
Ropuch |
Night chris |
| 10:28 |
|
hdl_laptop |
night chris |
| 10:28 |
|
gmcharlt |
g'night chris |
| 10:29 |
|
hdl_laptop |
gmcharlt: early for you. |
| 10:39 |
|
|Lupin| |
goodnight chris |
| 11:18 |
|
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ebegin left #koha |
| 11:32 |
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jwagner joined #koha |
| 11:32 |
|
chris_n |
g'morning #koha |
| 11:37 |
|
paul_p |
hi chris nigh_n (with the nick, no risk to be mistaken by a too complex name :D ) |
| 11:38 |
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anasha left #koha |
| 11:42 |
|
chris_n |
hehe |
| 11:42 |
|
chris_n |
it is actually Neuenschwander |
| 11:43 |
|
chris_n |
there are about 12 different spellings |
| 11:43 |
|
chris_n |
and a zillion pronunciations ;-) |
| 11:51 |
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jdavidb joined #koha |
| 11:52 |
|
jdavidb |
Good morning, #koha! |
| 12:07 |
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AmitG left #koha |
| 12:12 |
|
jwagner |
Good morning all |
| 12:15 |
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owen joined #koha |
| 12:28 |
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hdl_laptop left #koha |
| 12:45 |
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|Lupin| |
hi jane |
| 12:47 |
|
kf |
hi jane and jdavidb |
| 12:48 |
|
jdavidb |
Hi, kf! :) |
| 12:51 |
|
paul_p |
good morning jdavidb, jwagner & al |
| 12:53 |
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greenmang0 left #koha |
| 12:55 |
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Nate joined #koha |
| 12:57 |
|
jwagner |
Good morning everyone |
| 12:58 |
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schuster joined #koha |
| 12:59 |
|
schuster |
Morning from Texas! |
| 12:59 |
|
jwagner |
paul_p or other French speakers, can I get some syspref translations? |
| 12:59 |
|
schuster |
Are they around? I have a question about groups again as well... |
| 13:00 |
|
schuster |
My question is do groups only work in Staff searching. I don't seem to see them in the OPAC as an option like I do in staff. |
| 13:00 |
|
jdavidb |
Hiya, schuster. :) |
| 13:00 |
|
schuster |
Hey Davie B... |
| 13:03 |
|
|
hdl_laptop joined #koha |
| 13:05 |
|
jwagner |
hdl_laptop, are you available for some syspref translations? |
| 13:05 |
|
hdl_laptop |
yes |
| 13:05 |
|
jwagner |
Rather lengthy, I'll ping offline. Thanks. |
| 13:08 |
|
jwagner |
Anyone wondering what I'm up to :-) see Bug 3738 |
| 13:08 |
|
munin |
Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/b[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3738 enhancement, P5, ---, jwagner ptfs.com, ASSIGNED, Automate login to web-based self-check system |
| 13:12 |
|
schuster |
hdl_laptop - dealing with libraries and groups - do you have that displaying only in staff or in the pac as well? |
| 13:13 |
|
owen |
Is that possible schuster? There's a setting for it? |
| 13:16 |
|
schuster |
I was able to make groups work in the staff client - libraries and groups there is a "search domain" that seems to work, but it only displays the search group in the staff client |
| 13:17 |
|
schuster |
In the advanced search below libraries - groups shows up after I created a library group.(search 2 libraries at once) |
| 13:18 |
|
schuster |
owen does that answer your question? |
| 13:19 |
|
|Lupin| |
is the pm_to_blib file in Koha sources important ? |
| 13:19 |
|
owen |
Looks like it might be a flaw in the opac template... I see a reference to 'searchdomainloop' in opac-search.pl, but nothing in the opac template |
| 13:21 |
|
schuster |
Wondered about that... Easy to fix? If I only had a fraction of owen's knowledge of web stuff. |
| 13:22 |
|
owen |
I'm taking a look now |
| 13:23 |
|
schuster |
Also someone noted that in a newer version of Koha than I have there are options for "Term Loan Policy" - is that in community koha for 3.2? |
| 13:24 |
|
kf |
schuster: its LEK |
| 13:26 |
|
owen |
I wonder if LibLime is using its own version numbering system in LEK. That's going to get tricky for the rest of us to keep track of. |
| 13:29 |
|
schuster |
phewie |
| 13:32 |
|
magnusenger |
hm, a library wants to set the date due for *all* their current loans to a specific date. Is that as easy as "UPDATE issues SET date_due = '2009-12-31';", or am i missing something? |
| 13:33 |
|
jdavidb |
Hm...should be that easy, magnusenger. I'd be asking questions like "All? Even the already-overdue ones?" |
| 13:33 |
|
magnusenger |
yep, they are very lenient with overdues and have very few holds... |
| 13:35 |
|
jdavidb |
If they're running fines.pl, you'll probably want to dink with already-existing fines on those items, too, which complicates things some. |
| 13:36 |
|
owen |
schuster: In your tests of branch groups, do you find the results to be accurate? |
| 13:36 |
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CGI062 joined #koha |
| 13:36 |
|
schuster |
I'd have to explore more, but so far it seems to be. |
| 13:37 |
|
owen |
schuster: I tried a search on my test system... Searching for "pokemon" returned 14 results. Searching for "pokemon" limited to a branch group returned 721 results! |
| 13:38 |
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CGI062 left #koha |
| 13:38 |
|
owen |
Do branch groups require some kind of additional configuration I don't know about? |
| 13:38 |
|
magnusenger |
jdavidb: they are not using fines at all... I'll back up the db and give it a try. Thanks! |
| 13:39 |
|
jdavidb |
Good luck, magnusenger. If they're not using fines, I can't think of anything else that'd be negatively affected. |
| 13:41 |
|
|Lupin| |
question for koha developers pls |
| 13:41 |
|
|Lupin| |
I'm adding a subdirectory in Koha sources |
| 13:41 |
|
|Lupin| |
to store a few perl modules we need |
| 13:42 |
|
|Lupin| |
what should be done so that this directory gets installed correctly ? |
| 13:42 |
|
|Lupin| |
is there something to do at all ? |
| 13:42 |
|
gmcharlt |
Perl modules that you're writing? |
| 13:42 |
|
gmcharlt |
or from CPAN? |
| 13:42 |
|
|Lupin| |
gmcharlt: perl modules I'm writing |
| 13:42 |
|
gmcharlt |
ok, then put them in the C4:: namespaces |
| 13:42 |
|
gmcharlt |
and create your subdirectory under C4 |
| 13:43 |
|
|Lupin| |
ahah |
| 13:43 |
|
|Lupin| |
gmcharlt: btw: on the production system, what's best according to you ? is it to make install, or to run koha directly from sources ? |
| 13:44 |
|
gmcharlt |
well, both |
| 13:44 |
|
gmcharlt |
you can't quite run everything from sources |
| 13:44 |
|
gmcharlt |
so you need to do an install using dev mode to do it |
| 13:44 |
|
|Lupin| |
gmcharlt: right |
| 13:45 |
|
|Lupin| |
gmcharlt: actually that's what I did on the dev system |
| 13:45 |
|
|Lupin| |
gmcharlt: and there I could keep the dir containing our own modules out of C4... |
| 13:45 |
|
gmcharlt |
for production systems, it depends on how you want to manage change |
| 13:45 |
|
gmcharlt |
if you track HEAD, dev mode is actually pretty useful for production systems |
| 13:46 |
|
|Lupin| |
gmcharlt: would you mind elaborating a bit on your last point, pls ? |
| 13:46 |
|
gmcharlt |
if you are a firm believer in *only* running from a released packages, then you wouldn't do that |
| 13:46 |
|
|Lupin| |
gmcharlt: wella ctually it's nieither of this two... We will track our own HEAD, let's say |
| 13:47 |
|
gmcharlt |
if you're doing that, then you almost certainly want to run in dev mode |
| 13:47 |
|
gmcharlt |
as that automatically ensures that any locla customizations you're doing stay under version control |
| 13:47 |
|
|Lupin| |
gmcharlt: yeah I also have the intuition it will simplify things... |
| 13:47 |
|
|Lupin| |
gmcharlt: right |
| 13:48 |
|
schuster |
owen - how many of the book do you have total? and what "libraries" did you add to the groups? |
| 13:48 |
|
|Lupin| |
gmcharlt: the development model is that we will have one developemnt system where everythning is programmed, tested, etc. and then a production, system. The transfers between dev system and prod system will be through tigit.. |
| 13:48 |
|
gmcharlt |
that's the way to do it |
| 13:49 |
|
|Lupin| |
gmcharlt: btw: I have done a make install on the prod machine from a stable version of Koha, just to make sure everything works correctly. Is there a clean way to uninsall this ? |
| 13:49 |
|
owen |
schuster: 13,835 biblios in my test system, 2 libraries added to the group |
| 13:49 |
|
gmcharlt |
there's an uninstall script from a few months ago around |
| 13:50 |
|
gmcharlt |
but you can get all of the directories you need to delete from the instasllation log |
| 13:50 |
|
|Lupin| |
gmcharlt: oh, I'm sorry, I didn't see it. I just tried make uninstall and this didn't work... |
| 13:50 |
|
|Lupin| |
gmcharlt: ok, hope I kept this one... |
| 13:51 |
|
schuster |
owen - so how many pokemon do you have in branch #2? |
| 13:52 |
|
owen |
schuster: I think it's another problem with the template, hang on |
| 13:52 |
|
|Lupin| |
gmcharlt: just out of curiosity: where is the uninstall script ? |
| 13:52 |
|
schuster |
14 to 721 may not be bad but sounds like branch 2 has a lot of graphic novels. |
| 13:53 |
|
schuster |
you doing your searches in pac or staff? |
| 13:53 |
|
owen |
Wait, no, not a template problem unless the problem was already there--I'm testing in the staff client |
| 13:56 |
|
owen |
schuster: The result for branch 1 is 1 title, 4 for branch 2. So the results for my group should be 4 |
| 13:56 |
|
owen |
(1 in common) |
| 13:58 |
|
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joetho joined #koha |
| 14:02 |
|
schuster |
Yep I am seeing a problem with the groups search - it is ignoring the word but combinging the 2 locations only. |
| 14:02 |
|
|Lupin| |
Please specify Zebra database user [kohauser] |
| 14:02 |
|
|Lupin| |
I'm not quite sure what I should answer here... |
| 14:02 |
|
schuster |
so my search for south dakota - location a is 15, location b is 20 - but group location brings me everything between location a and b regardless of the search term kw |
| 14:03 |
|
|Lupin| |
any hint, pls ? |
| 14:03 |
|
schuster |
phewie - again... I was batting 8 yesterday today I'm striking out! |
| 14:05 |
|
Colin |
Lupin:Just take the defaults for zebra db user its just the koha/zebra traffic |
| 14:07 |
|
|Lupin| |
Colin: okay, thanks |
| 14:14 |
|
slef |
why is wiki.koha.org not answering me? does it answer anyone else? |
| 14:15 |
|
jdavidb |
It's answering me, slef. |
| 14:15 |
|
owen |
Working for me too |
| 14:17 |
|
slef |
hrm :-/ |
| 14:19 |
|
|
magnusenger left #koha |
| 14:19 |
|
slef |
now it answers me again |
| 14:19 |
|
jwagner |
When you delete an item from a title, is it supposed to go into the deleteditems table? I've been testing creating an item, deleting it (with zebra between each step), but nothing is showing up in deleteditems. |
| 14:21 |
|
hdl_laptop |
It should go there. |
| 14:26 |
|
jwagner |
Hrmmmm. It's not showing up, and I'm not seeing the code (yet) that would actually put it there. In additem.pl, under $op eq "delitem" there's a check for if the item is on loan or on hold, but I don't see where id does anything with it if it's not. |
| 14:26 |
|
schuster |
jwagner - mine does that but I don't know what version you are "testing" on. |
| 14:27 |
|
jwagner |
I'm finding some code in C4:Items.pm for handling deleteds, still looking at it. I'm testing on 3.01.00.041 with a lot of custom work on top. I'll try on another system. |
| 14:32 |
|
hdl_laptop |
jwagner: it is on master |
| 14:33 |
|
Colin |
jwagnar: _koha_delete_item is where its done |
| 14:35 |
|
jwagner |
On one system, with master active (no custom stuff), it works fine. On another, with master active, it doesn't. Something wrong with the table itself, maybe? |
| 14:42 |
|
hdl_laptop |
jwagner: could be |
| 14:43 |
|
jdavidb |
_koha_delete_items is built so that the fields can be in any arbitrary order, but the same fields must exist in both tables, or the INSERT will fail. We've tinkered, and have some added fields in items. |
| 14:43 |
|
kf |
I think both tables need same columns |
| 14:43 |
|
jwagner |
That's the problem :-( |
| 14:44 |
|
kf |
perhaps it will work, once you added them to the other table too |
| 14:44 |
|
kf |
when adding columns to borrowers that seemed to be all that was needed |
| 14:46 |
|
schuster |
I would love a field in deleteditems for when it was added to deleted... That is a problem I am having now |
| 14:46 |
|
kf |
I would love a coloum for accession numbers... :) |
| 14:46 |
|
schuster |
When you "delete" the item it doesn't update the last seen automatically it just copies it over. |
| 14:46 |
|
jwagner |
schuster, there's a timestamp field in deleted items that gets set when it's deleted |
| 14:46 |
|
schuster |
accession numbers? wouldn't that be like the barcode? |
| 14:46 |
|
kf |
no, not here |
| 14:47 |
|
kf |
but it should be unique for each book, so its a pk as a barcode is |
| 14:47 |
|
schuster |
jwagner! Really! I don't see that in the show columns from deleteditems I'll have to look again. |
| 14:47 |
|
kf |
libraries need to track what they buy with acession numbers and track what the delete too |
| 14:47 |
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| 14:48 |
|
jwagner |
schuster, e.g. timestamp -- 2009-10-30 10:27:53 |
| 14:48 |
|
schuster |
Please don't tell me you are still using a shelf list.... why can't you track adds through koha and deletes through koha using barcodes ? All of the data is there, the barcode maybe changed? |
| 14:49 |
|
schuster |
jwagner - you are my hero today! whooo who! |
| 14:49 |
|
schuster |
finally a base run! I'm using baseball analogies today. |
| 14:49 |
|
jwagner |
*blush* but was the previous question for me or kf? |
| 14:50 |
|
schuster |
jwagner - for kf - still trying to figure out why you need accession numbers with automation. |
| 14:50 |
|
kf |
schuster: its not my choice and Im not working in a library ;) |
| 14:50 |
|
jwagner |
I'm working on a report to count items deleted in the previous month, so I'll be using the timestamp field. For kf, the other item fields all still seem to be there, so if you have it in the item data now, it should still be reachable. |
| 14:50 |
|
wizzyrea |
hrm |
| 14:50 |
|
kf |
jwagner: which question? |
| 14:51 |
|
wizzyrea |
can someone tell me how the tablesorter in waitingreserves.pl is sorting the Patron column? It looks totally nonsensical to me |
| 14:51 |
|
kf |
schuster: I know its difficult to explain, but its a historical thing too, inventory/accesscion numbers where there before barcodes |
| 14:51 |
|
kf |
schuster: and I think there is a law which makes it necessary - I dont say you cant use an automation system for the tasks needed |
| 14:52 |
|
hdl_laptop |
wizzyrea: which version ? 3.0.4? |
| 14:52 |
|
schuster |
wizzyrea - looks like location only but not sorting by call after that. |
| 14:52 |
|
wizzyrea |
3.01.00.00.37 |
| 14:52 |
|
wizzyrea |
if you click the sorter on patron, |
| 14:52 |
|
wizzyrea |
It's not in a pattern I can discern |
| 14:53 |
|
schuster |
when did you get to upgrade to 3.01.00.00.37 - i'm still .32 |
| 14:53 |
|
wizzyrea |
we had some enhancements |
| 14:53 |
|
wizzyrea |
done |
| 14:53 |
|
wizzyrea |
in... june? |
| 14:53 |
|
schuster |
no comment |
| 14:53 |
|
wizzyrea |
that probably bumped the db |
| 14:53 |
|
wizzyrea |
i know. |
| 14:54 |
|
kf |
hmpf. dbavousett @wizzyrea http://koha.incolsa.net has a similar green look. Fun with CSS! |
| 14:54 |
|
schuster |
title and patron don't sort right here either. |
| 14:55 |
|
jdavidb |
kf: :P |
| 14:55 |
|
kf |
there is no green for me :( |
| 14:55 |
|
kf |
Im forced to look at the German version |
| 14:55 |
|
wizzyrea |
i'm looking at the code, and looking at the tablesorter docs, but I'm clearly not seeing what's wrong |
| 14:55 |
|
jdavidb |
Oh? Didn't know they had that set up, even. |
| 14:55 |
|
wizzyrea |
well, green happens to be one of my 2 favorite colors |
| 14:55 |
|
owen |
wizzyrea: I see what you mean. I'll take a look |
| 14:55 |
|
|Lupin| |
wizzyrea: 'm sorry, I didn't follow the conversation very well. Do you now know how the borrower column is sorted ? |
| 14:56 |
|
kf |
its bad, happens all the time. and I cant change to english :( |
| 14:56 |
|
wizzyrea |
|Lupin| no sir, I do not |
| 14:57 |
|
owen |
wizzyrea: It could be a problem with markup in the <td>, I've seen that before. |
| 14:57 |
|
wizzyrea |
owen++ ty |
| 14:57 |
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| 14:57 |
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|Lupin| |
wizzyrea: ok, I'm continuing to review the code then |
| 14:57 |
|
wizzyrea |
:D thanks |
| 14:58 |
|
kf |
jdavidb: is the header background green in english? it just looks not right for me, there is not enough space for the logo in my version and its the normal blue |
| 14:59 |
|
jdavidb |
yes, kf. Looks very good in English. I wonder how/why it's figuring out to shove you into the German version.. |
| 14:59 |
|
kf |
ip perhaps |
| 14:59 |
|
kf |
? |
| 14:59 |
|
|Lupin| |
wizzyrea: do you have independent branches, or not ? |
| 15:00 |
|
kf |
but I dont like it. I wanted to make screenshots from a really nice opac for my presentation and it got really ugly |
| 15:01 |
|
kf |
is there a url parameter perhaps to make it switch to english? |
| 15:02 |
|
jdavidb |
hm... |
| 15:04 |
|
jwagner |
FYI on my deleteditems problem, jdavidb found & added the missing fields & it works OK now :-) |
| 15:05 |
|
jdavidb |
see, they don't even have other languages selected. I wonder why it's doing that in the first place. |
| 15:05 |
|
owen |
wizzyrea: It looks like whitespace in the <td> is causing the problem. |
| 15:05 |
|
wizzyrea |
AH! |
| 15:05 |
|
* wizzyrea |
goes to look |
| 15:05 |
|
owen |
Editing a locally-saved version to remove the whitespace made the sorting work correctly for me. |
| 15:06 |
|
kf |
jdavidb: sorry, its just driving me crazy every time I find a catalog doing that to me :) |
| 15:06 |
|
kf |
jdavidb: and i dont understand it really, I think they must have changed their templates? using just css and sysprefs should work for any language |
| 15:07 |
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jdavidb |
Should, i would think. We just got this customer, already running. I suspect they have some template customizations. |
| 15:08 |
|
owen |
Remember: CSS is in the /lang/ folder, so it sounds like they have a custom stylesheet in /en/ but not in any others |
| 15:08 |
|
kf |
owen: ah! |
| 15:08 |
|
jdavidb |
owen++ |
| 15:08 |
|
kf |
owen++ |
| 15:08 |
|
kf |
but its sad |
| 15:09 |
|
owen |
kf: I'm surprised they even have alternate language templates available! |
| 15:09 |
|
owen |
The US is so very English-centric. |
| 15:09 |
|
kf |
perhaps they are not active but just generated? |
| 15:11 |
|
slef |
nah, the US hates English. Look at how its residents torture it. |
| 15:11 |
|
kf |
its just sad because im sure it looks nice, but I cant see it :( and I cant send the link to others to show them how nice koha opac can look. |
| 15:11 |
|
wizzyrea |
slef: burn! |
| 15:11 |
|
owen |
:D |
| 15:11 |
|
kf |
:D |
| 15:11 |
|
slef |
wizzyrea: you're a day early. |
| 15:11 |
|
* jdavidb |
might be able to fix that for you, kf. |
| 15:12 |
|
wizzyrea |
*sob* |
| 15:12 |
|
owen |
Does Koha respond to the user's browser's language setting? |
| 15:12 |
|
kf |
it seems so |
| 15:12 |
|
kf |
hm pehaps I can deactivate this somewhere |
| 15:13 |
|
jdavidb |
try now? |
| 15:13 |
|
kf |
YAY! |
| 15:13 |
|
kf |
jdavidb++ |
| 15:13 |
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joetho left #koha |
| 15:14 |
|
|Lupin| |
is it possible to download .po files from pootle, or is the site justfor editing translations ? |
| 15:14 |
|
wizzyrea |
jdavidb++ |
| 15:14 |
|
wizzyrea |
international_koha_users_keeping_us_on_track++ |
| 15:14 |
|
owen |
Now there's a mouthful |
| 15:14 |
|
kf |
now I can show this catalog to other German users :) |
| 15:15 |
|
* kf |
loves green |
| 15:15 |
|
owen |
If Koha is automatically picking the translation based on the browser's language setting, I wonder if we should detect this and display the language chooser for those users even if it hasn't been enabled |
| 15:16 |
|
kf |
owen: I would really like that. |
| 15:17 |
|
kf |
jdavidb: have you deleted templates to achieve this? or just deactivated in sysprefs? |
| 15:17 |
|
|
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| 15:18 |
|
jdavidb |
renamed a template directory. Since they don't intend to be using any internationalizations anyway, it doesn't make sense to have the tmpls generated. |
| 15:18 |
|
jdavidb |
I'll talk to the customer site, and see what their real intentions are--either we need to copy that CSS over into tmpl directories, or dump 'em. |
| 15:22 |
|
kf |
jdavidb: big thx :) just dont break it again - I just added it to my bookmarks with tags: koha_opac, nice, green, jdavid++ ;) |
| 15:23 |
|
jdavidb |
okay. :) I'll either get it working correctly in German, or remove the possibilities, after i talk with the site. |
| 15:57 |
|
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| 16:08 |
|
kf |
ok, time to leave - have a nice weekend everybody :) |
| 16:08 |
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joetho left #koha |
| 16:08 |
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kf left #koha |
| 16:18 |
|
|
owen is now known as owen-away |
| 16:20 |
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Kivutar left #koha |
| 16:32 |
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sekjal left #koha |
| 16:41 |
|
|Lupin| |
hmm |
| 16:41 |
|
|Lupin| |
I'm encountering the classical problem: |
| 16:42 |
|
|Lupin| |
opac searches do not work... |
| 16:42 |
|
|Lupin| |
I never know where it can come from / what to check... |
| 16:42 |
|
|Lupin| |
can someone help ? |
| 16:43 |
|
hdl_laptop |
hidelostitems |
| 16:43 |
|
hdl_laptop |
QueryWeightFields |
| 16:43 |
|
wizzyrea |
indexing? |
| 16:43 |
|
|Lupin| |
hmm |
| 16:44 |
|
|Lupin| |
I re-indexed and the rebuild_zebra -r -b didn't print any serious problem |
| 16:44 |
|
hdl_laptop |
QueryStemming ? |
| 16:44 |
|
|Lupin| |
regarding the settings: the db on the production system (where the problmem occurs) is a dump of the db on the dev system, where the problem does not occur |
| 16:45 |
|
hdl_laptop |
All those sys pref should be checked. |
| 16:45 |
|
|Lupin| |
hdl_laptop: I tend to suspect a problem in Koha-Zebra commnications... |
| 16:45 |
|
hdl_laptop |
you could also look at zebra logs. |
| 16:46 |
|
|Lupin| |
right |
| 16:47 |
|
|Lupin| |
hdl_laptop: in the message saying that there is no result for a title search for blip, it says ti,wrdl: blip |
| 16:49 |
|
|
paul_p left #koha |
| 16:51 |
|
|Lupin| |
just looking for the logs... |
| 16:51 |
|
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laurence left #koha |
| 16:53 |
|
hdl_laptop |
I meant zebra outputs not the interface. |
| 16:54 |
|
|Lupin| |
hdl_laptop: yeah I understood |
| 16:54 |
|
|Lupin| |
hdl_laptop: just checking the parameters in koha-zebra-ctl.sh |
| 16:54 |
|
|Lupin| |
hdl_laptop: should DBNAME be the koha database ? |
| 16:55 |
|
hdl_laptop |
in zebra ? no |
| 16:55 |
|
|Lupin| |
hdl_laptop: in the script... there is a variable called DBNAME... I'm asking what it should contain... |
| 16:57 |
|
hdl_laptop |
koha database. |
| 16:57 |
|
hdl_laptop |
But I think it is unused. |
| 16:58 |
|
|Lupin| |
hdl_laptop: ok |
| 16:58 |
|
|Lupin| |
hdl_laptop: and USER and GOUP ? in a dev install, should they be set to the user and group of the user who did the dev install ? |
| 17:02 |
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nahuel left #koha |
| 17:11 |
|
|Lupin| |
hdl_laptop: ok, now it works, thanks. there were old instances of the koha-zebra daemon which prevented the new (right) one from being ran. |
| 17:16 |
|
wizzyrea |
gmcharlt: I just did that thing I always do with my patches, so ignore the first one |
| 17:16 |
|
wizzyrea |
>.< |
| 17:16 |
|
gmcharlt |
ok, Ms. Root ;) |
| 17:16 |
|
wizzyrea |
har de har har |
| 17:17 |
|
wizzyrea |
:) |
| 17:18 |
|
|Lupin| |
:) |
| 17:18 |
|
|Lupin| |
I think we all do that |
| 17:18 |
|
|Lupin| |
the worst is to stop after the first (wrong) patch :) |
| 17:18 |
|
|Lupin| |
that's what I do |
| 17:18 |
|
wizzyrea |
hehe |
| 17:23 |
|
wizzyrea |
lulz, I just increased the brightness on my monitor, it's been at minimum for weeks b/c I'm too lazy to go change it, I kept accidentally hitting the f12 button to decrease brightness, but there's no button on my keyboard to increase brightness |
| 17:23 |
|
wizzyrea |
so I just set it |
| 17:23 |
|
wizzyrea |
and now I'm wondering if this is why I've been getting headaches |
| 17:23 |
|
wizzyrea |
lol |
| 17:23 |
|
wizzyrea |
(because my monitor was too dim) |
| 17:24 |
|
gmcharlt |
back in the days of CRT, I used to go around bumping up the refresh frequency to the max |
| 17:24 |
|
* gmcharlt |
never got why people didn't go simply insane starting at a montor refreshing at only 60 Hz |
| 17:24 |
|
wizzyrea |
oh I KNOW. Maybe we're just more sensitive |
| 17:27 |
|
jdavidb |
wizzyrea: I was only running at about a 40hz refresh rate yesterday. Too many days on the road.... probably gave some folks headaches. :P I *know* I wasn't making much sense. |
| 17:28 |
|
wizzyrea |
lol... that (plus my monitor) explains my vague headache yesterday |
| 17:28 |
|
wizzyrea |
and you made plenty of sense |
| 17:28 |
|
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Colin left #koha |
| 17:29 |
|
jdavidb |
My brain was *soooo* tired. I only-vaguely recall the drive to KC airport, and I have murky memories of the folks on the plane. Slept a good hour or so on the flight. |
| 17:46 |
|
* |Lupin| |
wonders who sighted persons do to use computers... it is already such a big source of headaches without having to look at a screen ! How tiring it must be when one has to look at one, plus thinking, etc. |
| 17:49 |
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| 17:51 |
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jdavidb |
|Lupin|: I wasn't aware that you were not sighted. |
| 17:53 |
|
|Lupin| |
jdavidb: oh ? ok. |
| 17:54 |
|
|Lupin| |
gmcharlt: around ? |
| 17:54 |
|
gmcharlt |
|Lupin|: yes |
| 17:56 |
|
|Lupin| |
gmcharlt: C4/Biblio.pm:1123: I'd like to add a || ''; |
| 17:56 |
|
jwagner |
wizzyrea, still around? |
| 17:56 |
|
wizzyrea |
yesm |
| 17:56 |
|
|Lupin| |
gmcharlt: beause without htat my logs are full of warningts saying $issn is used undefined... is that ok ? |
| 17:57 |
|
gmcharlt |
|Lupin|: $issn = $record->subfield('011','a'); ? |
| 17:57 |
|
gmcharlt |
if so, should be OK - matches what is done for MARC21 a few lines further down |
| 17:57 |
|
|Lupin| |
gmcharlt: yes exactly |
| 17:57 |
|
|Lupin| |
gmcharlt: I'm preparing the patch then |
| 17:58 |
|
jwagner |
wizzyrea (and anyone else interested), to follow up on our problem with wanting to place holds on on-order items, but the site doesn't allow on-shelf holds, we tried several permutations, but the only thing that really works is checking all the dummy items out to a dummy user. I set up a separate branch called ORDER (description ON ORDER) and tied the dummy user to it, then logged in as the dummy user and checked the item out to the dummy user. Then th |
| 17:59 |
|
gmcharlt |
jwagner: too long - split it up |
| 17:59 |
|
jwagner |
Sorry -- it shows OK in mine so I wasn't aware. |
| 17:59 |
|
jwagner |
To split: |
| 17:59 |
|
jwagner |
wizzyrea (and anyone else interested), to follow up on our problem with wanting to place holds on on-order items, but the site doesn't allow on-shelf holds, we tried several permutations, but the only thing that really works is checking all the dummy items out to a dummy user. |
| 17:59 |
|
|Lupin| |
jwagner: shows up correctly here, too |
| 17:59 |
|
jwagner |
I set up a separate branch called ORDER (description ON ORDER) and tied the dummy user to it, then logged in as the dummy user and checked the item out to the dummy user. Then the OPAC display shows ON ORDER for the location column. |
| 17:59 |
|
jwagner |
If anyone has any other solution, I'd love to hear it. |
| 18:02 |
|
chris |
morning |
| 18:04 |
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| 18:05 |
|
jdavidb |
Hi, chris. |
| 18:12 |
|
|Lupin| |
hello chris |
| 18:15 |
|
|Lupin| |
and goodbye all ! |
| 18:15 |
|
|
|Lupin| left #koha |
| 18:16 |
|
wizzyrea |
jwagner, hrm. that seems awfully convoluted :( |
| 18:16 |
|
wizzyrea |
wish it were easier |
| 18:16 |
|
wizzyrea |
i'm sure you do too |
| 18:16 |
|
wizzyrea |
mornin chris |
| 18:17 |
|
wizzyrea |
this would be a change (don't hit me gmcharlt) |
| 18:18 |
|
wizzyrea |
it would be neat if you could specify an itemtype to allow on shelf holds |
| 18:18 |
|
wizzyrea |
that would pretty much solve the whole problem |
| 18:18 |
|
wizzyrea |
we have "holds from this library only" and "holds from any library" why not "on shelf items" |
| 18:19 |
|
wizzyrea |
maybe itypes isn't the place to do it |
| 18:19 |
|
wizzyrea |
idk |
| 18:19 |
|
wizzyrea |
or even "on order items" |
| 18:19 |
|
wizzyrea |
if you wanted to be very specific |
| 18:20 |
|
wizzyrea |
...silence is unnerving. |
| 18:20 |
|
jwagner |
wizzyrea, I was thinking about two different possible long-term fixes. One is something like what you're saying -- in item type setup have a setting that says this itype can have an onshelf hold even if nothing else can. |
| 18:20 |
|
wizzyrea |
yea, that's the first thing that came to my mind |
| 18:21 |
|
wizzyrea |
what's the other? |
| 18:21 |
|
jwagner |
The other possibility would be for sites that don't want to have to create dummy items -- whether or not they allow onshelf holds. We were talking about this here a while back. That would be to have something in the title record that says this title can have a hold even if there are no items. |
| 18:21 |
|
wizzyrea |
hmm |
| 18:21 |
|
jwagner |
I was thinking about looking at the 942 subfields, to see if any are available, and if one could be used for this purpose. |
| 18:21 |
|
jwagner |
That way things like online resources wouldn't allow holds, but on-order stuff could. |
| 18:21 |
|
wizzyrea |
true |
| 18:22 |
|
wizzyrea |
well either solution allows that |
| 18:22 |
|
wizzyrea |
er, |
| 18:22 |
|
wizzyrea |
nm |
| 18:22 |
|
jwagner |
Yes, but having it in the item record saves extra work with creating the dummy item. |
| 18:22 |
|
wizzyrea |
conceptual fail |
| 18:22 |
|
jwagner |
sorry, I mean having it in the title record saves the extra work. |
| 18:23 |
|
wizzyrea |
true... but at least in the case of on order physical items you're going to have to add that item anyway |
| 18:23 |
|
wizzyrea |
at some point |
| 18:23 |
|
wizzyrea |
is it easier to edit existing or create new? |
| 18:23 |
|
wizzyrea |
I guess is the question |
| 18:23 |
|
wizzyrea |
it's always going to be two steps |
| 18:24 |
|
|
cait_laptop joined #koha |
| 18:24 |
|
jwagner |
Yes, eventually. I'm thinking of a workflow like this -- acquisitions adds a brief record with no items. Quick & simple. Then someone does the actual cataloging with item records -- maybe 50 copies for Harry Potter. In OCLC or somewhere else, create all the 952s appropriately. Then import that record & overlay the brief one. |
| 18:24 |
|
wizzyrea |
well... maybe not |
| 18:25 |
|
wizzyrea |
(I was unaware you could overlay... interesting) |
| 18:26 |
|
jwagner |
If you have proper match points, you should be able to, right? OCLC # or ISBN or whatever? |
| 18:26 |
|
jwagner |
That's the whole point of the matching rules. |
| 18:26 |
|
wizzyrea |
(but i'm not a proper cataloger, I don't do it every day) |
| 18:26 |
|
wizzyrea |
(I'm sure you're right) |
| 18:27 |
|
wizzyrea |
in your case, yes, I think you're right, for your workflow, that would work well |
| 18:27 |
|
wizzyrea |
in our case |
| 18:27 |
|
wizzyrea |
often we have a single person who 1. orders, 2. receives 3. catalogs the item |
| 18:28 |
|
wizzyrea |
no passing between departments (and we don't use acq) |
| 18:28 |
|
wizzyrea |
so... I think you should go with your best judgement |
| 18:28 |
|
jwagner |
The particular site I'm working with is multi-library, but the central branch does all the ordering. But they do their cataloging in OCLC & then just import. |
| 18:28 |
|
jwagner |
At least we have a workaround for them right now, and have time to think about proper solutions. Thanks much for your help! |
| 18:28 |
|
wizzyrea |
ah, yea, we do z-target searches for our records, and catalog in koha |
| 18:29 |
|
wizzyrea |
hey np, i'm always willing to argue. :) |
| 18:29 |
|
wizzyrea |
er, discuss |
| 18:29 |
|
jwagner |
Now, if someone wants to sponsor the long-term development..... :-) |
| 18:30 |
|
wizzyrea |
hehe, maybe they will ;) |
| 18:30 |
|
wizzyrea |
oh emm gee this is so annoying somebody fix it ASAP we have money we'll pay!!!!!!! |
| 18:30 |
|
wizzyrea |
er, |
| 18:30 |
|
jwagner |
Talk To Me :-) |
| 18:30 |
|
wizzyrea |
an example of an enthusiastic koha user |
| 18:31 |
|
wizzyrea |
hey, we can't PAY our vendor to do stuff for us |
| 18:31 |
|
wizzyrea |
seriously |
| 18:31 |
|
wizzyrea |
er, we have paid and they still don't do stuff for us, |
| 18:31 |
|
wizzyrea |
so |
| 18:31 |
|
wizzyrea |
... |
| 18:31 |
|
wizzyrea |
not much to lose there. |
| 18:32 |
|
jwagner |
Well, if someone else pays us to do it, you'll get it eventually.... |
| 18:32 |
|
wizzyrea |
<3 |
| 18:32 |
|
wizzyrea |
really you ought to just check a box and say, item is on order. allow holds. |
| 18:32 |
|
thd |
gmcharlt: are you here? |
| 18:34 |
|
wizzyrea |
OH |
| 18:34 |
|
wizzyrea |
jwagner |
| 18:34 |
|
|
owen-away is now known as owen |
| 18:35 |
|
wizzyrea |
what if, when you were adding the title, you did just that.. checked a box and it *created the dummy item for you* |
| 18:35 |
|
wizzyrea |
with all of the right settings |
| 18:36 |
|
cait_laptop |
thd: sorry, had no time to look for some nice marc21 records to send to you, but will do tomorrow - is .mrk ok? are you interested in something special? |
| 18:36 |
|
wizzyrea |
cait: thanks again for the help yesterday, my librarians are squee happy now |
| 18:36 |
|
jwagner |
That would be nice too. But part of our problem is getting the OPAC to say that it's on order. That's why I ended up using the separate library, because that displays as the location. Anything like an item status would have to be cleared manually by the cataloger, but the library clears with a checkin. |
| 18:36 |
|
thd |
cait_laptop: nothing special |
| 18:36 |
|
cait_laptop |
wizzyrea: you are welcome! it made me happy that I was able to help |
| 18:36 |
|
wizzyrea |
right, but if the itype is ON ORDER |
| 18:36 |
|
wizzyrea |
that would display in the opac |
| 18:37 |
|
jwagner |
Yes, a possibility. |
| 18:37 |
|
wizzyrea |
if you overlay anyway... |
| 18:37 |
|
wizzyrea |
it would go away when they recatalog, right? |
| 18:37 |
|
thd |
cait_laptop: standard MARC communications format which often appears in .mrc files is fine. |
| 18:37 |
|
jwagner |
They'd have to edit the item record -- overlay just affects the title record and adds new items, so far as I know. |
| 18:38 |
|
jwagner |
Trying to think of a workflow with as few steps as possible..... |
| 18:38 |
|
cait_laptop |
jwagner: what about a temporary location like PROC that can be reset by check in? |
| 18:38 |
|
wizzyrea |
so doesn't remove existing |
| 18:38 |
|
cait_laptop |
jwagner: have not tried temp locations yet, but nicoles doc is on my desk at work :) |
| 18:38 |
|
jwagner |
cait_laptop, I tried working with the In Processing (PROC) but wasn't wholly satisfied with the OPAC display. It didn't jump out and bite you, so to speak :-) |
| 18:39 |
|
cait_laptop |
I think its the way our current system works too |
| 18:39 |
|
jwagner |
We wanted something to make it REALLY OBVIOUS to the patrons, so they'd understand where the item was. |
| 18:39 |
|
cait_laptop |
with a temporary status |
| 18:39 |
|
wizzyrea |
so, acq orders the item, adds the brief record, checks the box "On Order". Koha creates the dummy item with ON ORDER itype. Item is received, goes to cataloging who then does the OCLC magic and overlays 50 copies... the dummy is still existant? |
| 18:40 |
|
jwagner |
Yes, so far as I know. Someone would then have to delete the dummy. |
| 18:40 |
|
cait_laptop |
items cant be overlayed as far as i know |
| 18:40 |
|
wizzyrea |
hrm |
| 18:41 |
|
cait_laptop |
ah ok, sorr |
| 18:41 |
|
jwagner |
For OPAC display, if we went the title-no-items route, we'd have to have some kind of a check for the "allow holds" setting and do a screen display saying it was on order. |
| 18:41 |
|
cait_laptop |
y |
| 18:42 |
|
gmcharlt |
hi thd |
| 18:42 |
|
wizzyrea |
yeah... this is an interesting problem |
| 18:42 |
|
thd |
hello gmcharlt |
| 18:42 |
|
jwagner |
Something to turn over in the back of the head for a while. It's amazing how many problems get solved there. Or about 2:00 AM when I wake up with Perl code running through my head..... |
| 18:43 |
|
wizzyrea |
hee |
| 18:43 |
|
thd |
gmcharlt: who does the Equinox FUD responses now that Karen Schneider has left? |
| 18:43 |
|
jwagner |
Hey, there are things I'd RATHER be dreaming about! |
| 18:43 |
|
wizzyrea |
kittens, rainbows, hot chocolate, surfing |
| 18:43 |
|
wizzyrea |
(I have lots of dreams about surfing, for whatever reason) |
| 18:43 |
|
gmcharlt |
thd: depends - are you refering to the SirsiDynix white paper |
| 18:43 |
|
thd |
gmcharlt: yes |
| 18:44 |
|
thd |
gmcharlt: It is significantly aimed at Evergreen while casting general aspersions. |
| 18:45 |
|
gmcharlt |
thd: basically, ESI has no comment for now - initial community response is doing a good job of dealing with it |
| 18:45 |
|
cait_laptop |
jwagner: my dreams about perl are strange, like being in a labyrinth and finding no way out |
| 18:45 |
|
joetho |
"Someone would then have to delete the dummy." |
| 18:45 |
|
joetho |
archive that. |
| 18:46 |
|
joetho |
or quotify or whatever you call it. |
| 18:46 |
|
thd |
gmcharlt: OK, so no one is yet planning any detailed response? |
| 18:46 |
|
cait_laptop |
perhaps will get better when I finally finish reading this perl book ) |
| 18:46 |
|
gmcharlt |
thd: we're thinking about it |
| 18:47 |
|
thd |
gmcharlt: I would like to offer my assistance in any detailed refutation if anyone is interested. |
| 18:47 |
|
jwagner |
cait_laptop, "You are in a twisty maze of passages, all alike." Isn't that a quote from some game? |
| 18:47 |
|
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brendan left #koha |
| 18:47 |
|
thd |
gmcharlt: There are some easy responses to some parts which could go overlooked. |
| 18:48 |
|
thd |
gmcharlt: Like all effective FUD, there is also some truth in the report which is why responding may be helpful. |
| 18:50 |
|
chris |
the only truths contained are truths about software development, not constrained to FLOSS |
| 18:51 |
|
wizzyrea |
thd: there is a google doc available for general refutation comment |
| 18:51 |
|
chris |
at least the only ones i could find |
| 18:51 |
|
wizzyrea |
if you would like access |
| 18:51 |
|
chris |
also there is |
| 18:51 |
|
chris |
http://wiki.code4lib.org/index[…]ms_on_Open_Source |
| 18:51 |
|
chris |
and an etherpad doc too |
| 18:53 |
|
chris |
http://etherpad.com/9OzS9eowye |
| 18:53 |
|
chris |
i have received 3 invites to the googledocs one, but when i click on them it says i dont have access |
| 18:53 |
|
chris |
whats that about then |
| 18:54 |
|
chris |
ah ha, the 4th one worked |
| 18:54 |
|
owen |
I've experienced that problem before with other docs, when someone invited me using a none-gmail address of mine |
| 18:54 |
|
chris |
yeah |
| 18:54 |
|
wizzyrea |
dear lord, it's almost 2 |
| 18:54 |
|
thd |
chris: there are some comments in the report which are generally true about free software or specifically true for the case given but still very misleading. |
| 18:54 |
|
wizzyrea |
no wonder I"m hungry |
| 18:55 |
|
jwagner |
Gotta run, happy weekend everyone! |
| 18:55 |
|
thd |
happy weekend jwagner |
| 18:55 |
|
chris_n |
etherpad says "Sorry, only 16 people are allowed to edit a single pad at the same time in the free version of EtherPad." |
| 18:56 |
|
cait_laptop |
happy weekend jwagner |
| 18:56 |
|
chris |
ahh |
| 18:56 |
|
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jwagner left #koha |
| 18:56 |
|
wizzyrea |
lol wowie |
| 18:57 |
|
chris |
the googledoc is coming along really well |
| 18:59 |
|
chris_n |
missed the googledoc one |
| 19:00 |
|
chris |
plenty of "citation needed" |
| 19:00 |
|
chris |
or as my friend at work says "jpg or it didnt happen" |
| 19:01 |
|
jdavidb |
I'm on the Etherpad one, at the moment. Trying very hard not to get seriously nasty. |
| 19:02 |
|
chris_n |
heh |
| 19:04 |
|
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indradg left #koha |
| 19:05 |
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pianohackr|work joined #koha |
| 19:12 |
|
wizzyrea |
hehe |
| 19:12 |
|
wizzyrea |
that's funny... I always say "pic or it didn't happen" |
| 19:12 |
|
owen |
wizzyrea is file format agnositc |
| 19:13 |
|
chris |
thats cos she helps the terrorists, you have to stick to proprietary formats if you can, i shoulda send patent encumbered .gif from the early 90s or it didnt happen |
| 19:18 |
|
wizzyrea |
O.o |
| 19:18 |
|
* wizzyrea |
is not a terrist |
| 19:19 |
|
wizzyrea |
chat terrorist, maybe |
| 19:19 |
|
owen |
It doesn't count until you get put on a "no-fly" list like me ;) |
| 19:20 |
|
wizzyrea |
seriously? |
| 19:20 |
|
owen |
Well, a mailing list "no-fly" list! |
| 19:20 |
|
wizzyrea |
HAHA |
| 19:20 |
|
chris |
if you use floss = terrorist |
| 19:20 |
|
wizzyrea |
ok yea, you win |
| 19:21 |
|
chris |
hehe |
| 19:21 |
|
wizzyrea |
(terrible joke) Clean teeth are the enemy! |
| 19:21 |
|
chris |
i wonder how that proprietary mailing lists is going |
| 19:22 |
|
owen |
Heh, Frank Coster just sent the "Koha vs Follet comparison" thread to himself @follett.com and cc'ed the Koha list |
| 19:22 |
|
owen |
Cover blown. |
| 19:22 |
|
chris |
*nod* i just let it through |
| 19:23 |
|
wizzyrea |
LOL |
| 19:23 |
|
thd |
I will create a GoogleDocs account tonight. |
| 19:23 |
|
thd |
I see some important aspects which people are missing. |
| 19:23 |
|
owen |
I guess the lesson of the day is: They notice us! |
| 19:24 |
|
thd |
but it is progressing nicely |
| 19:24 |
|
thd |
owen: yes, it shows more than that |
| 19:25 |
|
thd |
owen: it shows that there business is beginning to be challenged |
| 19:25 |
|
chris |
there were at least 3 proprietary vendors in my Koha talk |
| 19:25 |
|
chris |
at LIANZA |
| 19:25 |
|
thd |
chris: do they not always come? |
| 19:27 |
|
chris |
nope |
| 19:30 |
|
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brendan joined #koha |
| 19:31 |
|
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davi_ joined #koha |
| 19:31 |
|
pianohackr|work |
hi brendan, davi_ |
| 19:31 |
|
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davi left #koha |
| 19:32 |
|
brendan |
hey painohackr|work |
| 19:33 |
|
thd |
Someone with familiarity needs to address the PINES specific attacks. Other than no library would continue using software with the alleged poor performance, I would not know how to answer. |
| 19:34 |
|
pianohackr|work |
is phasefx involved with that? I believe he/she is involved with evergreen, but not sure if that extends to pines specifically |
| 19:34 |
|
pianohackr|work |
looks like they're especially afraid of losing consortium clients |
| 19:34 |
|
chris |
i think someone outside of ESI would be the best, just to remove any suggestions of bias |
| 19:35 |
|
pianohackr|work |
ah, true |
| 19:35 |
|
thd |
I prefer well informed sources. I can make my own judgements about bias. |
| 19:35 |
|
thd |
Well informed sources might know about some historical problem which has long since been fixed. |
| 19:36 |
|
thd |
Well informed sources may also know about similar bugs in SirsiDynix software. |
| 19:37 |
|
pianohackr|work |
Yes, especially any major symphony clients |
| 19:37 |
|
gmcharlt |
thd: if _PINES_ wants to respond for themselves, that would be good. but note that in no way does ESI speak for PIENS |
| 19:37 |
|
chris |
thd: horizon has been found to be horribly insecure |
| 19:38 |
|
thd |
gmcharlt: of course I was as careless in my wording as the author of the report in using his language |
| 19:38 |
|
thd |
gmcharlt: Is PINES software Evergreen or is it a very different version? |
| 19:39 |
|
gmcharlt |
PINES (the consortium in Georgia) is running Evergreen |
| 19:39 |
|
thd |
gmcharlt: It is the Evergreen software on which the report is commenting in referring to PINES. |
| 19:41 |
|
thd |
gmcharlt: My point was merely that someone with strong familiarity would be best placed to answer those very specific allegations about performance problems. |
| 19:41 |
|
gmcharlt |
thd: sometimes the best way to win is not to play |
| 19:42 |
|
chris |
first they ignore you, then they laugh, then they fight you, then you win |
| 19:42 |
|
gmcharlt |
definitely the third stage |
| 19:42 |
|
thd |
gmcharlt: Sometimes that is true. |
| 19:42 |
|
chris |
we are at step 3, i agree with galen, FLOSS vendors shouldnt play |
| 19:42 |
|
chris |
but if librarians and users want to, then that is up to them |
| 19:43 |
|
moodaepo |
chris++ |
| 19:43 |
|
thd |
I wish that I knew the bugs of other systems as well as Koha. |
| 19:44 |
|
gmcharlt |
well, that's the tricky thing about bugs - once those with the capacity to fix them start using bugs as a way to bash others rather than help fix them, the process becomes hopelessly mired in needless noise |
| 19:44 |
|
moodaepo |
Had to look up the line, did not know it was a Gandhi one. |
| 19:45 |
|
thd |
Certainly the tactic of the original report would backfire merely by seeming to be unfair for not being public and inviting criticism. |
| 19:46 |
|
chris |
moodaepo: and in interesting side note, ghandi was influenced by the passive resistance happening in NZ |
| 19:46 |
|
thd |
gmcharlt: I avoid reporting most bugs I see because it seems easier to fix them than report them. |
| 19:47 |
|
gmcharlt |
not sure I would go that far - recording what you've fixed is useful |
| 19:47 |
|
moodaepo |
chris I see, any readings you could point to would be great. |
| 19:47 |
|
thd |
gmcharlt: yes because I found in 2005 that my fixes became broken again very quickly. |
| 19:48 |
|
moodaepo |
thd but you thought you fixed it and wouldn't want other's to re-invent the fix |
| 19:48 |
|
chris |
http://gandhifoundation.org/20[…]runner-of-gandhi/ |
| 19:48 |
|
moodaepo |
and if you don't document it... |
| 19:49 |
|
thd |
gmcharlt: I have too high a standard for the quality of my bug reports. It takes me too long to write them to make them understandable by those who had not seen the original bug. |
| 19:49 |
|
|
jdavidb left #koha |
| 19:51 |
|
thd |
mondaepo: yes, it is less likely for people to break a bug fix if it is well documented. The code is also cleaner now than in 2005 so new patches are less likely to break old ones in mysterious ways. |
| 19:53 |
|
cait_laptop |
I have a list of possible bugs on my desk... but all need more testing in 3.2 :( |
| 19:54 |
|
thd |
mondaepo: I also had the wrong reaction in 2005 to having my patches quickly broken. Instead of trying to document my fixes so that others would be aware I retreated from fixing things for not enough time to fix them when they would be broken again. |
| 19:55 |
|
thd |
mondaepo: I think that part of the reaction of kados recently to the community is a similar frustration with a misplaced response. |
| 19:56 |
|
moodaepo |
really you think so? |
| 19:58 |
|
thd |
moodaepo: actually I know that in the case of kados, that frustration over various problems is an important part of the origin of his response. |
| 19:59 |
|
thd |
moodaepo: I just wish he would have a calm civil discussion about it openly and we could address those issues collectively. |
| 19:59 |
|
thd |
moodaepo: Not that it would change anything at this point but a little more openness on discussion from kados would help. |
| 19:59 |
|
chris |
unfortunately a lack of humility and too much hubris resulted in what could have been a valid point being a venom ridden attack on a person who most certainly did not deserve it |
| 19:59 |
|
moodaepo |
It somewhat makes sense |
| 20:00 |
|
moodaepo |
like an ugly divorce aye |
| 20:00 |
|
thd |
chris: yes I was not even referring to recently |
| 20:01 |
|
thd |
chris: The problems I recognise and how kados reacts go back to at least 2006. |
| 20:02 |
|
thd |
Unfortunately, now the reactions from kados have been more severe. |
| 20:04 |
|
chris |
i think in order to have a good discussion about bugs, you ahve to be able to recognise that you are capable of making them |
| 20:04 |
|
chris |
and that seems to me the root cause of this whole thing |
| 20:04 |
|
chris |
the inability to do that |
| 20:05 |
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thd |
People make bugs fairly much in the degree to which they contribute to the code |
| 20:06 |
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chris |
thd++ |
| 20:06 |
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thd |
It is difficult for most anyone to look at his own faults clearly |
| 20:06 |
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moodaepo |
thd++ # that would be me : ) |
| 20:06 |
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chris |
well being able to acknowledge its possible you could make a mistake most people can do |
| 20:06 |
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moodaepo |
I mean the bug reporting + code contribution |
| 20:07 |
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owen |
I wonder how much of the emergence of LEK stems from the vision of a future in which LibLime wasn't release manager. |
| 20:08 |
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gmcharlt |
@quote add <thd> People make bugs fairly much in the degree to which they contribute to the code |
| 20:08 |
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munin |
gmcharlt: The operation succeeded. Quote #44 added. |
| 20:10 |
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* thd |
was supposed to be in a different county hours ago |
| 20:10 |
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chris |
heh, you best get going |
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thd is now known as thd-away |
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owen |
Hi atz |
| 20:13 |
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atz |
greets |
| 20:13 |
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chris |
wb atz!!! |
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brendan |
hi atz |
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pianohackr|work |
hi, atz |
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cait_laptop |
ok, time to go to bed - good night #koha |
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owen |
ok, time to go home - good evening #koha |
| 20:27 |
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pianohackr|work |
good night owen |
| 20:27 |
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brendan |
cya woen |
| 20:27 |
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brendan |
owen |
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| 20:28 |
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atz |
how did the meeting go today? |
| 20:28 |
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chris |
ahh that was yesterday |
| 20:28 |
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chris |
and well i thought |
| 20:28 |
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wizzyrea |
yes, mostly very rational |
| 20:29 |
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chris |
http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?[…]etingnotes09oct29 |
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brendan |
cya later all -- enjoy hallowenn |
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