Time  Nick          Message
23:30 brendan       errr..  good afternoon
23:30 brendan       afternoon everyone
22:44 chris_n2      wow... I was a little over 5 months old
22:43 chris         heh
22:43 richard       Forty years ago, on Oct. 29, 1969, the world entered a new era. A Menlo Park, Calif., outpost of ARPANET, the packet-switched network predecessor of the Internet, received the first ever communication between one computer and another.
22:43 richard       not long now until the interweb becomes self aware.....
22:42 chris_n2      heh
22:42 chris_n2      me too
22:42 chris         "send a patch"
22:42 chris         that i deleted
22:42 chris         well that was my response
22:42 chris_n2      opps
22:42 chris_n2      which would be better used submitting bug fixes instead of complaining
22:42 chris_n2      he must have more time on his hands lately
22:41 chris_n2      I agree there
22:41 chris         i dont think joshua can possibly be serious, glass houses, throwing stones, 2 years late and all that .. he has to be just baiting
22:40 chris         good call :)
22:40 chris_n2      chris: I had written a response email, got called away before sending it, thought about it while away, deleted it when I got back... ;-)
22:38 chris         heh
22:38 richard       but russel hates rugby  ;)
22:37 chris         crazy emails, a good meeting, winning tickets to the semi final, realising i cant go, giving the tickets to russel
22:37 chris         what a day
21:58 cait_laptop   ok, near to falling asleep here - bye chris, wizzyrea and rest of #koha
21:57 chris_n2      http://www.wired.com/autopia/2009/10/motorized-la-z-boy/
21:57 cait_laptop   jquery++
21:57 wizzyrea      but owen's not here ^.^
21:56 cait_laptop   owen would now more ways to do it
21:56 cait_laptop   uh
21:56 chris         cait_laptop++
21:55 wizzyrea      ooh, I like that one too cait
21:55 cait_laptop   going to bed - good night :)
21:54 chris         back at work
21:54 cait_laptop   another solution: $("#bd li a[href=/cgi-bin/koha/circ/branchtransfers.pl]").parent().hide();
21:53 wizzyrea      cait_laptop++
21:53 wizzyrea      I always forget about the indexes
21:53 wizzyrea      YAY ty
21:51 wizzyrea      lemme try
21:51 wizzyrea      well, I think, if something gets added there, I'll deal with that
21:51 wizzyrea      very smart
21:51 wizzyrea      OH !
21:50 cait_laptop   hides the third li element - will break when another link is added on circulation page
21:50 cait_laptop   $("#bd li:eq(2)").hide();
21:46 cait_laptop   ok, let me take a look, perhaps I can help
21:45 wizzyrea      just transfer, not transfers to receive
21:45 wizzyrea      yesm
21:44 cait_laptop   wizzyrea you want to hide transfer on circulation page?
21:28 wizzyrea      but neither show :(
21:28 wizzyrea      and $("#bd li:contains('Transfers to Receive')").show();
21:28 wizzyrea      so I did $("#bd li:contains('Transfer')").hide();
21:27 gmcharlt      wizzyrea: yes
21:27 Nate          gnight #koha
21:26 wizzyrea      you are thinking something like $("#bd li:contains('Transfers to Receive')").show();
21:24 wizzyrea      I shall try both!
21:23 wizzyrea      gmcharlt: that is also a good idea
21:23 gmcharlt      wizzyrea: one thought - if you hide (by changing the visibility of) the elements rather than removing them, you can hide the transnfers, then unhide transfers to receive
21:21 wizzyrea      (sometimes all I need is to write it out)
21:21 wizzyrea      ...sec, i'm going to go look at the yui grids
21:20 Sharon        they are such a pain in your behind ;-)
21:20 wizzyrea      now they want to unhide Transfers to Receive, but still hide Transfer
21:20 wizzyrea      but this removes both Transfer and Transfers to Receive
21:20 wizzyrea      $("#bd li:contains('Transfer')").remove();
21:19 wizzyrea      lemme paste what I've done
21:19 wizzyrea      well here
21:19 gmcharlt      what is bleh?  an attribute?
21:18 wizzyrea      i found contains
21:18 wizzyrea      I can't seem to find a selector that says if bleh IS x, hide
21:18 wizzyrea      how can I select just Transfer, and not Transfers to Receive
21:17 wizzyrea      but I don't want to hide Transfers to Receive
21:17 wizzyrea      I want to hide Transfer, using jquery
21:17 wizzyrea      it'll be ez for you all
21:17 wizzyrea      well
21:17 wizzyrea      ok I have a stumper
20:59 slef          heh, at least two people voted twice... I need to clean this up and rerun the analyses, but it can't see it changing the results
20:56 sekjal        time for my train.  cheers, #koha
20:54 slef          (links from http://www.software.coop/products/phone/ are 404ing)
20:54 slef          that's it... I must chase them up about our broken sales landing page :-/
20:53 pianohacker   http://www.thephone.coop/residential/payu-residential-mobiles ? the co-op idea seems very nice
20:51 slef          pianohacker: and guess what?  The 7p/Mb one is a co-op
20:50 slef          thd: Thanks. Me too.
20:49 pianohacker   slef: that's very reasonable; unless you spring for an unlimited plan, verizon charges 5 cents/kb
20:48 thd           slef: I have to make more effort for the wiki vote
20:47 chris         bbl
20:47 chris         ok im out of here
20:47 slef          thd: and the other phone was 50p for up to some number of Gb in a day.
20:47 pianohacker   bye chris_n
20:47 * chris_n     heads off to supper
20:47 slef          thd: no, but I pay 7p/Mb which is fine for IRCing.
20:46 chris         cya IrmaCalyx
20:46 IrmaCalyx     See you later all...
20:46 thd           slef: Do you have affordable unlimited  data plans which would not cause the problem which chris identified?
20:46 pianohacker   I personally prefer irc meetings, but I'm a geek
20:46 slef          chris: telecommed? :-/
20:46 chris_n       heh
20:46 slef          thd: I don't know. I only have two mobile phones.
20:45 slef          I'll probably regret this, but it seems easier to moderate an IRC meeting than a physical one where ranters studiously avoid your eye contact when speaking
20:45 chris         not if i want to be able to afford to buy food
20:45 thd           slef: Do all UK carriers let you use IRC on standard ports?
20:44 slef          chris: can you IRC from a phone there?
20:44 slef          time to go cook dinner for people :)
20:44 chris         slef: naw, the meeting would had to be 10 mins long for me to make it :)
20:44 sekjal        thanks, jransom!
20:43 jransom       and thanks for a great meeting
20:43 jransom       cya everything
20:43 slef          chris: heh, so not entirely the fault of meeting length
20:43 jransom       but happy to hear from you and your thoughts on the matter
20:43 chris         so i best start walking
20:43 chris         by an hour and 40 mins ...
20:43 jransom       oh never let that be said !
20:43 slef          ok, talk later or tomoz maybe
20:43 * chris       has missed his bus
20:43 slef          jransom: oh yes, the Ohio KSF, but I think brendan has made me partially obsolete.
20:43 jransom       but i have to drive to work now.
20:42 jransom       stuff about why LL should transfer assetys to a sort term HLT solution over the Koha foundation they have already set upo.
20:42 gmcharlt      thanks slef
20:42 schuster      slef great job.
20:42 slef          jransom: what was I taking up with you now? ;-)
20:42 slef          no, thanks to every for not slapping me down when I got verbose
20:41 jransom       ok - better into the office and rugby tackll my day into submission
20:41 slef          they drink so much strong coffee, they have become immune
20:41 hdl_laptop    thanks slef
20:41 thd           wizzyrea: The French may not have all of the crazy late night habits some of us have evolved :)
20:41 slef          IrmaCalyx: I don't think any announced themselves in the roll call.
20:41 IrmaCalyx     Thanks slef :)
20:40 cait_laptop   thx slef
20:40 nicomo        thanks slef
20:40 brendan       slef++
20:40 jransom       slef: you did a great job.
20:40 sekjal        thanks, slef!  brilliantly chaired
20:40 chris         well chaired
20:40 chris_n       great job
20:40 slef          thanks all for coming... a lot of difficult topics answered
20:40 chris_n       tnx slef
20:40 IrmaCalyx     Is anyone from India online now?
20:40 chris         thank you very much slef
20:40 * brendan     offers to be a proxy for anyone near my time-zone
20:40 slef          ok, meeting closed!
20:40 slef          I'll send that within 24h if no-one beats me.  good idea chris
20:40 chris_n       good idea
20:40 nicomo        wizzyrea: yes, it's actually kind of really early
20:40 chris         let them appoint a proxy maybe?
20:39 chris         maybe we need to get some way for the people who cant make it to be able to participate
20:39 slef          ok, let's wait in response to an email announcing the next date
20:39 wizzyrea      1am, while late, is not SO late
20:39 IrmaCalyx     If CALYX is the only affected please dont worry about the early start
20:39 jransom       (took ages for the shift key mark to dissaper :)
20:39 nicomo        chris: +1
20:39 jransom       best to mix it up - to be fair - but we don't want chris falling asleep on the keyboard again
20:39 chris         i think its actually the best time for the majority of people
20:39 chris_n       ouch
20:39 jransom       so 1am for france
20:38 jransom       and singapore india around 6am ?
20:38 slef          I'm just conscious that I think this would make it 3 in a row at 1900Z.
20:38 nicomo        it's currently 9:40pm here in France
20:38 jransom       9am in australia
20:38 sekjal        backward would work for me, but not forward
20:38 thd           should we ask them via email?
20:38 nicomo        not forward please
20:38 chris_n       forward or backward 3 hours would be fine here
20:38 jransom       what happens if we shift it back 3 hours? would make it 10am in NZ
20:38 slef          last question, I promise :)
20:37 slef          ok, so 1900Z.  If we get a strong request from IrmaCalyx, Amit and whoever, should we vary it at all?
20:37 chris_n       thd: as one might expect :-)
20:37 gmcharlt      true enough
20:37 thd           It would be likely to be better for those present than those absent
20:37 IrmaCalyx     No worries 6am start is ok
20:37 Ropuch        It's ok in Europe
20:37 chris         we just should send irma some coffee beans as a thank you :)
20:36 Gary          good for me, same time as today, and 091203
20:36 jransom       as in all of Asia .. and Irma :)
20:36 chris         and early for irma
20:36 chris         i think this is crap for india
20:36 jransom       early for Irma and Asia
20:36 sekjal        worked well for me in NYC
20:36 gmcharlt      yep
20:36 brendan       good for me
20:36 wizzyrea      good for me
20:36 chris_n       me too
20:36 jransom       this time was brilliant for me ... what about the states?
20:36 slef          ok, 2009-12-03... time?
20:36 cait_laptop   ok
20:36 tajoli        for me Dec 3
20:36 IrmaCalyx     Dec. 3 for me
20:35 sekjal        Dec. 3 for me
20:35 Ropuch        ok
20:35 gmcharlt      fine with me
20:35 jransom       or the 10th
20:35 hdl_laptop    ok
20:35 thd           December 3 should be late enough
20:35 chris         me too
20:35 jransom       good for me
20:35 chris_n       december 3?
20:34 slef          so what date?
20:34 thd           yes the week after would be better
20:34 jransom       then lets makk it 5 weeks - thats cool
20:34 gmcharlt      jransom: generally for USians, it is
20:34 jransom       if people travel for thanks giving is the week after better yet?
20:34 sekjal        I know that I'm out of town the 25th through the 28th
20:34 slef          oh yeah it was Columbus day I didn't know about last time... ok, so we have a suggestion of Tuesday 1 December - 19 UTC, 10 UTC or something new?
20:33 wizzyrea      hehe
20:33 chris_n       heh
20:33 chris_n       gravy++
20:33 wizzyrea      gravy++
20:33 chris         yeah, and no presents
20:33 chris_n       turkey++
20:33 wizzyrea      and gravy
20:33 wizzyrea      turkey and sports
20:33 chris         the best holiday ever
20:33 sekjal        slef: Thanksgiving is on the 26th
20:33 thd           as sekjal reported Monday after would be a problem
20:32 chris         thanksgiving?
20:32 chris_n       jransom++
20:32 slef          sekjal: what holiday just out of interest?
20:32 jransom       what about the tuesday after the long weekend
20:32 chris         yeah my wife would have me say not weekends if possible
20:32 chris         :)
20:32 jransom       personally reluctant about sundays - but american sundays are our mondays :)
20:32 * chris_n     wonders where the others are
20:32 sekjal        Nov. 29th is the end of holiday weekend in the US
20:31 slef          (we're much fewer than 150 people here, which would seem to be the theoretical maximum from the voters)
20:31 chris         i remember back in the day, in ohio with joshua, stephen and owen, laughing and looking forward to the future ... it was only 2002 but it seems a lifetime ago now
20:31 chris_n       slef: depends on the time
20:31 slef          ok, are Sundays a problem for people?  I'm minded to launch a poll within 24 hours with a few times to try to find the maximum attendance because I think there's strength in numbers for this topic.  But we can fix a time now if people wish
20:30 jransom       more or less
20:30 hdl_laptop    thanks brendan
20:30 * wizzyrea    recognizes the irony. le sigh.
20:30 schuster      That may be an "organisation" that jransom and HLT needs to contact.
20:30 chris_n       wizzyrea: how ironic that would be
20:29 slef          wizzyrea: nice drafting of owen!
20:29 IrmaCalyx     gmcharlt: I can ask him as I am not sure
20:29 wizzyrea      maybe Owen's library has a lawyer they could ask?
20:29 thd           exact would be a Sunday
20:29 gmcharlt      IrmaCalyx: and licensed to practice in Ohio?
20:29 slef          moving on to 6. Agree time of next foundation meeting.  jransom: would you like 1 month exact or a bit more/less?
20:28 sekjal        remove the "we were never even contacted!" card from the deck
20:28 IrmaCalyx     brendan: if you like I can ask my brother in law who is an attorney in Chicago Ill.
20:28 sekjal        yes, brendan++
20:28 chris_n       +1
20:28 sekjal        some attempt to contact the Ohio KSF should probably be made, for due diligence
20:28 chris         thank you
20:28 chris         +1 also
20:28 brendan       ok -- we'll let everyone know what we find
20:28 slef          brendan +1
20:28 jransom       would be helpful to know more
20:27 slef          sekjal: liblime and their lawyer?
20:27 chris         thats who's name is on the paper
20:27 slef          brendan: please, if you have capacity.
20:27 chris         liblime's lawyer?
20:27 sekjal        is there anyone associated with the Ohio KSF who can communicate with the community?
20:27 brendan       should we move forward with that?
20:27 brendan       we were going to talk with our lawyers to see if that is true
20:27 slef          like, has that KSF cost anyone anything significant yet?
20:27 wizzyrea      most foundations need a board of directors to function.
20:26 chris_n       I move we move on to the next point of business :-)
20:26 slef          brendan: good question.  It would need someone who knows Ohio's laws, charges and habits to say more.
20:26 jransom       slef: cool
20:26 slef          jransom: I'll take this up with you after.
20:25 brendan       does a filed document for ksf in ohio really = foundation -- or is just intent to form
20:25 jransom       just warning of alternative viewpoints
20:25 jransom       it is reasonable to want to know the plans of the 'new' trust, a short solution, is theebesttplace for them...
20:24 slef          please, hold assets, not owned ;-)
20:24 * chris_n     thinks the community ultimately has greater inertia than one man or his business
20:24 jransom       if I was joshua and had established a trust for koha, and owned assets,
20:24 slef          jransom: well, if someone had set up the Trust for Horowhenua Libraries but it was completely secret and inactive, would that prevent HLT functioning?
20:24 thd           OK now I understand
20:23 thd           about will ask the question
20:23 thd           jransom: I did not understand your previous statement
20:23 chris         i think slef gave the answer jransom , it isnt actually functioning
20:23 jransom       lol
20:23 chris_n       jransom: we should burn that bridge when we come to it
20:23 jransom       ok - lets see how we go and tackle the issues as and if they arise
20:22 slef          but this is the chair speaking too much again...
20:22 chris         its true chris_n
20:22 jransom       ok. but the founders of that trust can and probably will ask the question about why our short term solution has more credibilkity than its specially set up trust.
20:22 slef          Until then, we must continue
20:22 chris_n       we are really second-guessing and speculating at this point
20:22 thd           :)
20:22 chris         :-)
20:22 slef          If someone pulls a rabbit out of that hat and prevents all of us and HLT doing more work by presenting the perfect answer, then hooray.
20:21 chris         exactly
20:21 slef          yes, it exists but does not function, which is why we're here
20:21 chris         just something to bear in mind, because without doubt it isnt a valid objection
20:21 chris         but a ksf already exists
20:21 slef          chris_n: we have almost no data.
20:21 chris         i think that might be another reason given not to transfer assets to hlt
20:20 chris_n       the ohio nonprofit is a one-man show imho
20:20 slef          schuster: no-one knows its bylaws.  I think the names of liblime and its lawyer are linked to it.
20:20 thd           ;)
20:20 slef          schuster: yes, see wiki link to the Ohio business department.
20:20 IrmaCalyx     One is always in a short plan situation (until that changes...)
20:20 slef          jransom: I feel that nonprofit could be the Ohio one, or it might not.  It all depends on what happens.
20:19 schuster      is there a US non profit for Koha established?
20:19 jransom       by its nature, planning for the long haul.
20:19 slef          jransom: I think the long term plan is to spin out into its own independent organisation developed in consultation with the user and developer community.
20:19 chris_n       the legitimacy of the motive of most questions in this regard is probably questionable at this point
20:19 jransom       because, there already is a koha nonprofit set up in the states.
20:19 thd           nicomo: a short term plan would be needed as a transition
20:19 schuster      hard to negotiate a long term plan when things are in place and we don't know what the asset holders will propose when asked.
20:18 nicomo        and if we had the long term plan ready already, no short time plan would be needed, would it?
20:18 schuster      slef++
20:18 chris_n       slef: right
20:18 jransom       lets say I am theroetically asked about the long term business plan for the koha community, now that HLT is THE koha nonprofit. and thus worthy / appropriate recipients of community assets
20:18 slef          jransom: hanging on you
20:18 chris         slef++
20:17 slef          I'm not sure we can resolve the long-term plan if anyone asks... either the giver can try to constrain it, or it's a stalling tactic and time to walk away, but HLT and advisers can decide.
20:17 jransom       ok - hang on.
20:17 schuster      I suspect through negotiations many questions will come up -
20:17 chris         i know i would
20:17 chris         schuster: well the community is asking HLT to ask for stuff, i bet HLT would rather not have to deal with this at all
20:17 slef          right, any other comments on long-term concerns?
20:15 slef          sekjal: ok, sorry. English is broken.
20:15 schuster      ok - just throwing it out there since HLT is asking for stuff.
20:15 jransom       I apologise unreservedly for my language
20:15 chris         schuster: to my mind that is the main need for HLT to be involved is to restore community access
20:15 sekjal        slef: I'm meaning indefinite as 'no definitive timeframe set'
20:15 thd           slef: yes purposes and powers are there
20:15 chris_n       I think we cross one bridge at a time
20:15 slef          please can we keep the language toned down to typical daytime broadcast level?  Thanks.
20:15 chris         schuster: i see that as the role of the subcommittee if/when one is convened
20:15 jransom       if it has to stay with hLT through community indecision then that will work
20:15 thd           reluctant givers may wish to have an idea about the procedure for use.
20:14 slef          sekjal: that wasn't the vote AFAICT
20:14 schuster      Long term concerns - being a technological group - I think plans should be considered on how to "manage" these assetts and if those that are currently managing them are willing to continue with an open community concept - ie access to servers by outsiders.
20:14 IrmaCalyx     that card could be played :(
20:14 slef          I don't really want to reread that blurry PDF.  Wasn't there stuff about powers and purposes in it?
20:14 sekjal        so, can we officially state that we are going with HLT indefinitely?
20:14 jransom       we have to do the short term one
20:14 thd           Once we have assets we would need a procedure for using them for community benefit
20:14 jransom       thats bullshit chris
20:14 Ropuch        Chris is right
20:14 chris         we cant go with a short term solution until we know the long term one, i fear that card will be played
20:13 jransom       if we wind up we HAVE togift to non profit
20:13 jransom       we can sell / gift / trade to anyone
20:13 slef          I'd be surprised if that was raised, but I guess I'm often surprised.
20:12 chris_n       the long term may become long
20:12 slef          well, HLT's involvement puts certain constraints on that by virtue of transferring to other non-profit charities and so on.
20:12 thd           If it comes up in negotiations then the issue can be revisited
20:12 chris_n       HLT == Koha for them
20:12 chris         the perfect stalling tactic
20:12 chris_n       I think not at the present moment
20:12 nicomo        thd: why?
20:12 chris         oh god
20:11 thd           beyond HLT
20:11 thd           those with whom a negotiation is being conducted may like to know what type of organisation they will be giving assets.
20:10 thd           for 4 which we should consider
20:10 slef          thd: ok go on
20:10 thd           there may be one issue
20:10 slef          ok, postponing long term considerations to next meeting.
20:10 slef          thd: for now, it was appointing the bob, chris and gmcharlt.
20:09 chris_n       pianohacker: meeting time
20:09 thd           OK
20:09 pianohacker   hey, #koha
20:09 slef          thd: I think 4 is postponed.
20:09 chris_n       I think that was 4
20:09 thd           slef did we miss part of 4?
20:09 slef          We've already heard about IFLA affiliation alongside other hosting.
20:09 chris         i think wait for details
20:09 chris_n       I say we wait
20:08 hdl_laptop    thd: yes I am
20:08 slef          Anyone want to flag something up at this meeting, or wait for the subcommittee details?
20:08 schuster      jransom - only if they feel they need it.
20:08 slef          5. Long term considerations
20:08 munin         chris_n: Error: "lol" is not a valid command.
20:08 thd           aye
20:08 chris_n       munin: lol
20:08 slef          ok thanks
20:08 munin         chris: Error: You're not allowed to adjust your own karma.
20:08 chris         chris-- #stop being grumpy
20:08 jransom       i will bring back trustees thoughts on the sub committee
20:07 thd           hdl_laptop: so you are happy with those 3?
20:07 chris         no one who came to the meeting anyway jransom :)
20:07 jransom       yes : re subcommittee.
20:07 chris_n       slef: agreed
20:07 brendan       :)
20:07 schuster      Thank you jransom...
20:07 jransom       ok, so noone is feeling leftout and aggrieved then :)
20:07 slef          ok, I think the detail of the subcommittee control procedures should wait for now. Is that OK with everyone?
20:06 slef          schuster: hdl_laptop +1d
20:06 jransom       ok - 3 is grand.
20:06 hdl_laptop    yes.
20:06 brendan       more experience in the long history of koha by that group IMO
20:06 jransom       Brendan: you ok?
20:06 schuster      BibLibre ok with that group?
20:06 slef          we have a +1 from brendan
20:06 Gary          +1 galen
20:06 Ropuch        +1
20:06 richard       +1
20:06 IrmaCalyx     +1
20:06 brendan       +1
20:06 jransom       brendan offered
20:06 sekjal        +1
20:06 hdl_laptop    gmcharlt++
20:06 cait_laptop   +1
20:06 schuster      1+
20:06 slef          Anyone against?
20:06 chris_n       +1
20:06 chris         hows that sound?
20:06 slef          ok, bob, chris and gmcharlt ?
20:06 IrmaCalyx     gmcharlt +1
20:06 chris         yep, bob + galen + myself
20:05 gmcharlt      I am also willing to provide advice
20:05 slef          chris: are you willing to accept the nomination?
20:05 * russel      has to leave to - nice work as the chair slef, thank you
20:05 gmcharlt      +1 to Bob and Chris
20:05 IrmaCalyx     Bob is ok to advise Joe
20:05 jransom       This is NOT the sub committee
20:05 slef          ok, we have a propsal for bob and chris
20:05 chris_n       I'd like to see gmcharlt on board for the month if he will agree
20:05 chris_n       I'
20:05 jransom       Bob and Chris?
20:04 jransom       yep - this is a short term, 1 month, advisory role if trust want more info but don't want to go public during private negotiations
20:04 brendan       agreed bob++ chris++
20:04 schuster      Personally as I think about this the current 3.2 release group would be good as they represent people from all over except possibly slef.
20:04 rhcl          rhcl????
20:04 thd           Long term there should be more of a role for users.
20:04 * brendan     throws his hat in the ring
20:03 chris_n       RM gmcharlt, Releas M: hdl, TM chris, DM, nengard, and rhcl
20:03 slef          is it time for a quick election?
20:03 * owen        has to leave. Feel free to draft me in my absence if I can be useful
20:03 jransom       and Chris (even though you are grumpy today you have a sound understanding of people and the community)
20:03 thd           chris: yes but we should not presume that we have already identified them
20:03 slef          thd: I think RMs and Kaitiaki have historical weight, but this is chicken-and-egg.
20:03 hdl_laptop    bob++
20:03 thd           brendon: The role to which the release manager etc. were elected is different from the role about which jransom is asking
20:02 hdl_laptop    I think I misunderstood
20:02 chris         thd: there are no koha community leaders, thats the point
20:02 IrmaCalyx     jransom: Bob @ CALYX has lots of business and people experience
20:02 hdl_laptop    oh sorry
20:02 slef          chris_n: can you enumerate them?
20:02 schuster      hdl_laptop or paul?  - slef?
20:02 slef          personally, if ca at biblibre, I'm going to suggest info at software.coop too, in an act of blatent self-promotion
20:01 thd           I question whether the software project leaders should be necessarily presumed to be the Koha community leaders on other questions
20:01 brendan       elected positions seems to be the best
20:01 chris_n       there appear to be a total of 5 current position holders?
20:01 hdl_laptop    paul_p nicomo and I
20:01 jransom       and confidential, loads of wisdom and history
20:01 * owen        agrees: koha-manage--
20:01 jransom       1 - 3 max
20:01 chris         that list must die
20:01 hdl_laptop    ca at biblibre dot com ?
20:01 jransom       thats right
20:01 chris         but yeah, koha-manage--
20:01 slef          jransom: but presumably having 171 different opinions isn't OK?
20:01 jransom       and want an opinion
20:01 chris_n       chris as TM
20:01 chris         nengard and i are the other 2 elected roles
20:00 schuster      Ah - no koha-manage
20:00 jransom       if theyt get stuck
20:00 jransom       advise to trustees
20:00 slef          gmcharlt hdl_laptop rach who else?
20:00 jransom       a second opinion
20:00 jransom       more a advise role i think
20:00 chris_n       they are already community appointed positions
20:00 thd           however, do not spoil negotiations by revealing the wrong things too openly.
20:00 slef          jransom wants some person(s) who can make a decision I think
20:00 chris_n       ie RM, etc
20:00 chris_n       maybe the current version position holders?
20:00 slef          mailing lists aren't executive
19:59 chris_n       thd++
19:59 thd           the public mailing list
19:59 jransom       yep - sound principle.
19:59 thd           jransom: as much as possible I would like to see issues discussed on the mailing list
19:59 brendan       no koha-manage
19:59 chris         my brain hurts
19:59 chris         :)
19:59 chris         +1 for someone else
19:59 chris_n       heh
19:59 slef          anyone got thoughts on this?  We could use koha-manage but eeergh
19:59 chris         gah
19:58 chris_n       +1 for chris
19:58 jransom       otherwise I'll just ask Chris Cormack
19:58 thd           slef: either 2.III,c. or 3.
19:58 thd           slef: either 2c. or 3.
19:58 jransom       do I have an 'executive' or subgroup of koha community contact who i can ask questions of?
19:58 thd           slef: either c. or 3.
19:57 jransom       ok - I have a clear understanding of what HLT need to do next
19:57 slef          where are we in the meeting?
19:57 limey         what is this lmfao
19:57 limey         ok bro
19:57 chris         give us a few mintues, and we will be free to answer questions
19:57 jransom       CG1028: having a meeting now my friend, can you wait for a bit?
19:56 chris         limey, we are in a meeting at the moment
19:56 chris_n       heh
19:56 CGI028        how do u hop servers
19:56 jransom       Harvard graduate - so knows american style a bit too
19:56 chris_n       jransom: excellent
19:56 thd           That is exactly why HLT has been a good choice.
19:56 jransom       it will probably be Sharon Crosbie who doe sthe negitiating, the Chair of the Trust. no background or history
19:55 schuster      Yes I think letting HLT do the initial run is better as it keep the community and feelings out of the mix.
19:55 jransom       1 step at a time
19:55 jransom       yep - i prefer that too.
19:55 slef          "3. Scope of activities" has been covered in our request a bit.  Any more comments or questions about this?
19:55 chris_n       least-inflaming++
19:54 chris_n       jransom: the second appears better
19:54 chris         that might work better
19:54 jransom       which is the least 'inflaming' option
19:54 jransom       or whether we let the trustees secure the assets through negotiation, then set up sub committee to go forward with
19:54 chris_n       slef: i think so
19:54 chris         and then report back
19:54 slef          ok, so shall we postpone this are we willing to pay/buy/license to a future meeting?
19:54 thd           chris: did you mean committee or subcommittee?
19:53 jransom       the question will be whether i should influence themmto set up the subcommittee to do the negotiations under the trust name and with their authoruty behind them
19:53 chris         i think that jo needs to take this back to the trustees, at the meeting
19:53 russel        +1
19:53 chris_n       +1
19:53 chris         i think the subcommittee idea has merit
19:53 jransom       the trustees will almost certainly not want to accept or finalise any deals without running past the commnity first
19:53 chris         righto
19:53 slef          Three Letter Acronyms
19:52 slef          companies, assets and trusts have enough jargon already
19:52 chris         tla?
19:52 slef          I know I'm one of the worst offenders, but can we keep the TLAs out as much as possible?
19:52 chris_n       a sort of formal informality
19:52 chris_n       thd: the US gov't has MOU's with entities such as the Red Cross, etc
19:52 slef          2.3 Assignment of trademarks and domains. Is this all left to HLT's discretion now?  Is HLT happy with that?  Do we want to offer more instruction?
19:52 wizzyrea      (sorry I'm late, was at a koha related meeting :))
19:51 chris_n       Memoradum of Understanding
19:51 jransom       memorandum of understanding
19:51 slef          ok, can we talk about the memorandum of understanding a bit more in a mo?
19:51 jransom       sound reasonable?
19:51 thd           MOU?
19:51 jransom       rules of engagement if you like
19:51 jransom       and there will be a MOU
19:51 chris         cool
19:51 slef          and I think a basic letter would cover it.
19:51 jransom       i should think the trustees will want to consider setting up a sub committee of koha folk to 'do' this koha work.
19:50 chris         so that if katipo went *poof* they werent locked in without support
19:50 slef          http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?TruckNumber I think the above is about
19:50 slef          ok, finished reading
19:50 rhcl          OK. got it
19:50 chris         rhcl: thd is refering to a slide i used to explain why hlt and katipo decided to gpl koha
19:50 thd           rhcl: It was a hypothetical
19:50 chris         rhcl: no
19:50 jransom       sounds very reasonable
19:50 rhcl          I'm confused. So once a bus with everybody from Katipo slid off a road? Does Katipo - HLT?
19:50 jransom       yep
19:49 chris         ?
19:49 chris         we are grateful of the trust put in us by the community, we promise to hold them in trust yadda yadda
19:49 jransom       no country restrictions
19:49 jransom       i would expect, but we should have confirmed in writing, that the koha community assets be transferred to another koha community org
19:49 thd           jransom: there should be a guarantee that the similar minded non-profit would be at the direction of the Koha community
19:49 chris_n       jransom: is there any in or out of country restriction?
19:49 chris         maybe a letter frm hlt saying
19:48 jransom       in the event the trust winds up the assets have to be given to a similar minded nonprofit
19:48 thd           there should be some provision for the unthinkable.
19:48 jransom       ok.
19:47 thd           Katipo once had a slide about the Katipo excursion with everyone in the bus
19:47 chris         thd: like an act of parliament?
19:47 slef          anyone else got questions/comments?
19:47 slef          sorry, I'm waiting for that PDF to download NZ-England :-/
19:47 chris         im not parsing that thd
19:47 thd           there should also be some provision for what if something happens to HLT outside anyone's control
19:47 chris         ?
19:46 thd           the purposes of the trust seem to have some limit on any real problems
19:46 slef          For those unfamiliar with an asset lock, it's explained a little in http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?r.s=sc&r.l1=1073858808&r.lc=en&r.l3=1077475650&r.l2=1073859215&type=RESOURCES&itemId=1077475743
19:46 jransom       we can buy and sell whatever we like
19:45 jransom       yuck - sorry wireless keyboard
19:45 jransom       wcan bud sell wha like towhomevwe lke
19:45 jransom       this is or trust deed.
19:45 jransom       http://kete.library.org.nz/trust/documents/show/39-deed-of-trust
19:45 hdl_laptop    +1
19:45 thd           jransom: post the link to the charter
19:44 thd           so there are some issues for consideration perhaps some will want a letter when giving assets stating that they are held for the Koha community in some formal legalistic way.
19:44 slef          Does that cover it?
19:44 slef          jransom: is HLT legally capable of selling assets that it holds?  If so, are there restrictions of transferring assets out of NZ if a future Koha foundation isn't NZ-based?
19:44 jransom       and asset details
19:44 slef          good catch thd!
19:43 slef          oh yes... an unresolved pair of questions about HLT from the fact-finding
19:43 jransom       can i ask that i be fed through the contact details d details of everone we need to negotiate with please
19:43 thd           slef: some such as yourself wanted to know about asset locks and similar guarantees
19:42 slef          thd: can you introduce "2.2 discussion of guarantees" please?
19:42 IrmaCalyx     that is a sound plan
19:42 nicomo        +1
19:42 jransom       (Kiwis don't like mucking about)
19:42 thd           I agree with slef that HLT will be in the best position to assess a reasonable timeline
19:42 rhcl          +1
19:42 slef          ok. everyone, start checking your calendars for 1 month's time ready for the end of the meeting
19:42 Ropuch        +1
19:42 sekjal        +1
19:42 sekjal        chris_n: okay
19:42 chris_n       +1
19:42 chris         +1
19:41 jransom       but, we will meet back in 1 month to assess progress. either call it quits or take another month.
19:41 slef          jransom: any reply?
19:41 slef          personally, I'm happy with that, but I lean towards HLT deciding the timeline.
19:41 chris_n       sekjal: I think we are giving HLT the authority to make the call as they see fit
19:40 sekjal        and up to one month more, if negotiations in in progress 1 month from now?
19:40 sekjal        the community is agreeing to give HLT 1 month from this date for negotiations
19:40 slef          sekjal: please go on
19:39 slef          thd: OK. I'll ask you about it once sekjal finishes.
19:39 thd           slef: I drafted the agenda initially in the absence of nengard
19:39 jransom       answers can only be : yes, no and 'heres my price'
19:39 sekjal        so, just to reiterate:
19:39 schuster      jransom - I believe whoever is running the "request" will have a good idea on if people are acting in good faith or being difficult after you have been in contact with them 2-3 times.
19:39 chris         its not like its coming out of the blue
19:39 slef          ok, shall we move on to 2.2 Discussion of guarantees?  Whose is this?
19:39 chris         *nod*
19:38 jransom       everuone knows whats happening, what the requests will be,
19:38 thd           I suggest reporting the state of negotiations which have not completed by some date and indicating prospects
19:38 cait_laptop   jransom+
19:38 jransom       i would like it resolved quite quickly. there are no surporiuses here
19:38 chris_n       slef++
19:38 jransom       and then we decide, based on my gut feeling, if another month would be productive time?
19:38 slef          I think jransom should pick the timeline and just announce it.
19:37 jransom       how about you gve me a month
19:37 thd           jransom ... to avoid that very problem
19:37 jransom       yes, yes and yes :)
19:37 chris         *nod*
19:37 slef          or cut our losses, at least.
19:37 thd           jransom: you have to be the judge of genuine progress
19:37 chris         i think we need to be flexible, but we also need to be able to call BS when it is apparent progress is not being made
19:37 jransom       thd: but people can spin things on for ever with no intention of ever settling. I'm not mucking around with this.
19:36 jransom       but they will meet earlier as i request
19:36 IrmaCalyx     Does HLT meet in December? January?
19:36 schuster      jransom - do you know all of the players that need to be contacted?  You will need time to draft a letter, send it to the parties involved and wait for a response.
19:36 jransom       the last thursday in november
19:36 thd           I think it is a mistake to cancel a negotiation by a particular date if genuine progress seems apparent
19:36 slef          ok... let's see how that goes
19:36 hdl_laptop    Q2.1 +1
19:36 gmcharlt      belated +1
19:36 chris_n       jransom: do they meet monthly
19:36 IrmaCalyx     jransom: and then the next meeting ?
19:36 jransom       i have inititaed contact with joshua and it is pleasant
19:35 jransom       they have a paper for discussions
19:35 jransom       trustees meeting next thursday 5th nov.
19:35 brendan       +1
19:35 slef          or just one announced?
19:35 slef          right, jransom what date, do you know?
19:35 chris_n       jransom++
19:35 jransom       and heres fair warning, I will stick to a date ... no pony trading and game playing afterwards.
19:34 slef          fun fun fun
19:34 slef          ok, I'm overruled.  Anyone who wants to vote later, please put "Q2.1 +1" or similar for -1/0 in IRC before the close.
19:34 chris_n       jransom: +1
19:34 richard       +1
19:34 chris_n       slef: I'd think the vote would end at this meeting
19:33 jransom       Is it the will of the community that we work towards a date for end of negotiations?
19:33 russel        err vote later?
19:33 slef          ok, I'm +1 too.  Anyone who wants to vote later, please add it to the wiki.
19:33 thd           chris: does table not mean shelve in NZ and call the question not an immediate vote?
19:33 chris         ahh, different meaning here
19:33 schuster      slef chris yes that's what table means by roberts rules.
19:32 chris_n       chris: what slef said
19:32 owen          +1
19:32 slef          any -1s or 0s?
19:32 nicomo        +1
19:32 Nate          +1
19:32 Ropuch        +1
19:32 slef          chris: I think table means shelve to the USA.
19:32 IrmaCalyx     +1
19:32 rhcl          +1
19:32 schuster      +1
19:32 sekjal        aye
19:32 cait_laptop   +1
19:32 thd           aye
19:32 russel        +1
19:32 jransom       +1
19:32 chris         aye
19:32 chris_n       +1
19:32 slef          ok, who is for this?
19:32 chris         table the motion :)
19:31 thd           call the question
19:31 slef          ok, so the question is "those present resolve to authorise HLT to enter into negotiations about finding ways to secure koha community assets" - anyone want to speak for or against it?
19:31 jransom       then we bring the negotiated proposal/s back to the community for endorsement
19:31 russel        slef: i think that what you have suggested is the next step if there is no response
19:30 russel        jransom:  sounds good to me
19:30 chris         sounds like a good step forward to me
19:30 jransom       I think the poll results, and a resolution from this meeting authorising HLT to enter into negotiations with whoever about finding a way o secure community assets.
19:30 chris         ie holding the community assets in safe hands
19:29 chris         im not sure i see hlt exerting anymore control, more just stopping others
19:29 slef          jransom: so maybe some request signed by rach, RMs, nengard and whoever else we can muster, indicating the voters who request it?
19:29 jransom       I think that is the first, and maybe only job to concentrate on
19:29 chris_n       russel: I think that is what is meant
19:29 jransom       the trustee 'need' the authority of the community to secure the community assets
19:29 owen          sorry slef I'm just trying to understand in general what the process needs to be
19:28 thd           IrmaCalyx: There is no absolute time limit but merely a practical one when there is the will and resource to create an independent foundation.
19:28 slef          russel: with HLT as the community's proxy at first
19:28 chris         +!
19:28 jransom       nods
19:28 * russel      wasnt sure this was about giving HLT more control of koha, i thought it was about giving the community more control over koha
19:28 slef          let's get the basic step done first before the nitty gritty
19:28 jransom       carry on - and I'll wave a hand
19:28 jransom       I'm thinking ...
19:28 slef          owen: can we deal with asset transfer in a mo, please?
19:28 slef          jransom: can you tell us how to give HLT (more) control of Koha?
19:28 owen          In that case, who draws up the agreement? Is each agreement the same?
19:27 richard       hi
19:27 IrmaCalyx     ok
19:27 chris         owen: probably
19:27 owen          Would each person with assets to transfer need their own individual agreement with HLT?
19:27 chris         i guess as long as its needed
19:27 chris_n       not unless we make one
19:27 slef          time limit from whom?
19:27 chris         not as far as i know
19:27 chris         ?
19:26 IrmaCalyx     Is there a time limit on the affiliation of Koha with HLT Foundation?
19:26 chris_n       lol
19:26 russel        :-)
19:26 chris         heh
19:26 slef          heh, timing!
19:26 chris         yeah, i agree with russel
19:26 chris_n       I'd think the vote is the offer to give
19:26 russel        i think what jransom proposed in her email to the list about making contact is the first step
19:25 thd           It also means what does HLT do to receive Koha.
19:25 chris         i suspect HLT needs to ask
19:25 slef          who wants this?  jransom? chris?
19:25 slef          2. What do we do next?  2.1 Legal issues and procedures.  I guess this means: how do we give HLT koha?
19:24 slef          moving on...
19:24 thd           sorry that I ran out of time to raise the absolute majority examination on the mailing list
19:24 slef          ok, any more comments on the vote or move on?
19:23 slef          it's pretty close
19:23 slef          and the benefit of the ranking is that a run-off election wouldn't change that
19:23 russel        +1
19:23 thd           yes that is agreed, I hoped it could be expressed even more clearly
19:23 chris_n       and I
19:23 jransom       +1
19:23 chris         that was the conclusion i had drawn also
19:23 slef          anyway, by almost any measure, it's Q1: HLT and Q2: KOHA
19:22 chris_n       yes
19:22 slef          I've excluded votes with no email address - isn't that how to spot completed?
19:22 thd           However, if you do not count noncompeted votes for the first rank in Q! then there is an absolute majority
19:22 slef          and yes
19:22 chris         yes
19:22 chris_n       Q1 => short term and Q2 => long term.... right?
19:22 slef          for KOHA, yes, sorry
19:22 chris         for new foundation?
19:21 slef          and a winning margin of 68 out of 156 in Q2
19:21 chris_n       slef: I thought the results looked clear
19:21 slef          I see a winning margin of 78 for HLT in Q1 out of 157
19:21 thd           slef: I did not check Q2 so maybe not Q2
19:20 jransom       I think the results look clear
19:20 slef          for Q1 anyway
19:20 thd           yes short and long term respectively
19:20 slef          do we?  I'm not seeing that in the analysis but maybe I'm reading them wrong
19:20 thd           and also for Koha foundation in Q2?
19:19 schuster      Plus in my opinion gives it some Validity in "ownership" since they "originated" the project.
19:19 chris         for short term ?
19:19 thd           could we not consider that we have an absolute majority of completed votes for HLT?
19:19 chris_n       true
19:18 chris         the good thing with HLT is it doesnt really close off any possibilities
19:18 slef          ok
19:18 thd           yes
19:18 slef          any more comments before we move onto 2. What do we do next?
19:18 slef          wait a mo
19:18 slef          point of information: I think the preference rankings were: Q1: HLT > SPI > SFC > IFLA > NONE; Q2: KOHA > LIB > HLT > SPI > SFC > IFLA > NO
19:18 thd           sekjal: It should not
19:17 sekjal        does proceeding with HLT close off any possibilities of affliating with IFLA down the road?
19:17 thd           it is not something which needs to be addressed immediately
19:16 thd           chris is probably right
19:16 jransom       nods
19:16 slef          I think that's fair comment and something to bear in mind at each step onwards.
19:16 chris         that sounds to me more like a question for the long term foundation
19:16 thd           however, it was in many comments from the first survey
19:15 thd           the ballot did not really ask about IFLA to elicit that
19:15 schuster      David Schuster - Plano ISD, TX USA
19:15 thd           I think that many people especially outside the US wanted to affiliate with IFLA in addition to the other options
19:14 slef          anyone else, just raise your hand to go next
19:14 owen          slef++ # for working on the analysis
19:14 slef          thd first: please go ahead
19:14 thd           yes
19:14 slef          I'll post the analysis Real Soon Now. Are there any other comments on the vote?
19:13 slef          sorry, borda-elim
19:13 thd           which is the one?
19:13 slef          The one measure which didn't result in HLT (borda) results in an unresolved tie.
19:13 rhcl          jdavidb is on a plane back to Maryland ATT
19:13 slef          By all measures except one so far, HLT wins the "first step" vote.
19:13 chris         nicole sends her apologies she is on a bus at the moment
19:13 slef          I've got the vote results and I've run Q1 through the voteengine.
19:12 hdl_laptop    Henri-Damien LAURENT, BibLibre, Montpellier
19:12 owen          Owen Leonard, Nelsonville Public Library
19:12 slef          1. Conclusion from the final foundation forming vote.
19:12 slef          ok - anyone else can announce themselves when they remember :)
19:12 gmcharlt      Galen Charlton, ESI, 3.2 RM
19:12 thd           Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
19:11 rhcl          Greg Lawson Rolling Hills Consolidated Libary
19:11 IrmaCalyx     I am here and awake (6.10 am in Sydney)
19:11 chris_n       Chris Nighswonger, FBC
19:11 Ropuch        Piotr Wejman, CSNE LIbrary, Poland
19:11 Nate          Nate Curulla ByWater Solutions
19:11 nicomo        Nicolas Morin, BibLibre
19:11 russel        russel garlick, catalyst IT
19:11 sekjal        Ian Walls, NYU Health Sciences Libraries
19:11 jransom       Joann Ransom, Horowhenua Library Trust, NZ
19:11 brendan       brendan gallagher - ByWater Solutions
19:11 jwagner       Jane Wagner, PTFS
19:11 cait_laptop   Katrin Fischer, BSZ Germany
19:11 slef          thd: that's fine
19:11 chris         chris cormack, translation manager, catalyst it
19:11 thd           late tonight
19:11 brendan       no nengard for the meeting
19:11 slef          ok, who's here?  I'm MJ Ray (slef), a member of software.coop
19:10 slef          thanks thd
19:10 thd           I will
19:10 slef          someone to summarise the meeting onto the wiki when we're done?
19:10 slef          someone, please?
19:10 russel        back
19:10 slef          who will summarise?
19:10 slef          ok, the agenda is at http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=en:events:meetings:irc_meetings:meetingnotes09oct29
19:09 hdl_laptop    slef++
19:09 hdl_laptop    not me
19:09 hdl_laptop    note me
19:09 gmcharlt      +1 for slef running it
19:09 slef          ok, let me dig my desktop out from under these windows... any dissenters?
19:08 jransom       second slef
19:08 chris_n       +1
19:08 chris         i vote slef to chair
19:08 hdl_laptop    And if he says he is not sure.
19:08 slef          ok, so shall we go on anyway and who wants to chair?  Now that the votes have taken place, I think I don't have a prohibitive conflict any more.
19:08 jransom       so with no Nicole or Rach, we need to find a scrum manager for this meeting
19:08 hdl_laptop    brendan should know better than me.
19:07 jransom       ok.
19:07 slef          is this a work thing or a personal thing? ;-)
19:07 chris         slef: im 99% sure she wont
19:07 jransom       (and yes I know she is logged in :)
19:07 slef          hdl_laptop: do you know if nengard will be here?
19:07 jransom       Is Rachel here, as the Kaiwhakahaere
19:07 slef          I thought that was a reason for this time.
19:06 thd           who will be conducting the meeting?
19:05 IrmaCalyx     G'day
19:05 hdl_laptop    hi
19:05 brendan       I'm not so sure -- she is down in the LA area
19:03 chris         im not sure that she is, i think she is in california still
19:03 slef          I'll be here just as soon as I'm done running the voteengine
19:03 slef          yes, I think so
19:03 thd           Is nengard expected?
19:00 Ropuch        Good evening #koha
18:58 jwagner       Hi chris
18:55 chris_n       howdy jransom
18:55 jransom       morning
18:55 chris         morning jo
18:51 chris         hi jwagner
18:49 * russel      does the school run, back soon
18:45 * slef        checks lists and starts processing the Final Foundation Vote
18:44 slef          free time... I used to have some of that
18:44 sekjal        I should spend more time configuring my home server to do neat things for me, but I am sadly without free time
18:43 chris         there goes my ssh tunnel idea ;)
18:42 chris         ahh
18:42 sekjal        the strict NetSec policies were a contributing factor in our decision to leave our previous ILS vendor
18:41 sekjal        chris: only over the VPN, and only then if your account is set up for it
18:41 chris         ssh out?
18:41 chris         makes sense
18:39 sekjal        the external IT department here (I'm with the library's internal IT) is VERY strict with network security.  Hospital records and all
18:38 owen          Lucky for me we don't have a network administrator ;)
18:37 chris         i think its the ports that are blocked owen
18:36 * owen        does xulrunner + Chatzilla
18:35 chris         heh
18:34 sekjal        either that, or my IT department is experimenting with blocking that, too
18:34 sekjal        there.  mibbit was down for a while, it seems.
18:31 sekjal        brb; switching clients
18:31 brendan       hello richard
18:31 sekjal        hey, brendan
18:31 brendan       hi sekjal
18:31 chris         here's hoping
18:29 sekjal        chris: maybe, maybe not.  I think the thread has reached a point of clarity and understanding now, so hopefully things will be smoother from now on
18:26 chris         sekjal: thanks ... i fear i shouldnt have replied the first time though
18:25 russel        hiya
18:25 chris         heya russel :)
18:25 sekjal        chris++
18:21 * sekjal      reads his email, winces, reads more
18:18 sekjal        hi, chris.
18:18 chris         yeah, when they are ready, they will be merged in (the biblibre acquisitions one)
18:18 hdl_laptop    schuster : biblibre is having its branch too based on master :
18:18 schuster      http://git.koha.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi
18:17 schuster      There are two other branches there that people are working on so that was why I was confused.
18:17 chris         nope
18:17 schuster      OK so nothing has happened with the branch since 2009-10-14?
18:17 chris         heya sekjal :)
18:16 chris         git.koha.org master branch
18:16 schuster      Where is the current 3.2 git?  I just like to watch development happen.
18:16 schuster      WHEW!
18:15 chris         coffee and chocolate, all better :)
18:13 hdl_laptop    french coffe mug
18:12 chris         ohh chocolate, thanks :)
18:12 chris         who brought the coffee?
18:12 * cait_laptop offers chris some virtual chocolate
18:10 chris         its too early in the morning for this stuff
18:10 chris         *sigh*
17:34 chris         ive just called him on his behaviour, not that i think it will stop it
17:33 owen          Yes. I'm being sarcastic.
17:33 hdl_laptop    owen : which question ? about 3.0.4_son_of_final ?
17:32 cait_laptop   hm *reading mails*
17:29 owen          ...and Ben chimes in with a Very. Important. Question.
17:25 chris         not staying for meeting paul?
17:22 cait_laptop   bye paul_p
17:21 paul_p        have a good day, evening, night or whatever you want/need depending on your TZ ;-)
17:21 paul_p        bye #koha
17:14 paul_p        ( but maybe it's good to stay quiet as well ;-) )
17:14 chris         so much so, im not going to bother replying to his ridiculous email
17:13 paul_p        sorry, I wanted to say keep cool ;-)
17:13 chris         he is such a bully
17:13 chris         :)
17:13 paul_p        chris: keep quiet :D
17:13 chris         hi cait_laptop
17:13 hdl_laptop    hi chris
17:12 cait_laptop   hi #koha
17:12 cait_laptop   hi chris
17:12 chris         grrrrrrrrr
17:02 owen          Unfortunately I don't have access to any logs on our production system.
17:02 owen          A bug with our installation? Works fine on my test system.
17:02 owen          gmcharlt: http://acpl.kohalibrary.com/cgi-bin/koha/unapi?id=koha:biblionumber:1578&format=MARCXML
17:01 gmcharlt      owen: no, unapi is always on
17:00 owen          http://acpl.kohalibrary.com/cgi-bin/koha/opac-search.pl?q=Frommer's+Cancun%2C+Cozumel+%26+the+Yucatan
17:00 sekjal        I could see my catalogers getting upset about this one, once they find out
17:00 sekjal        searching with "and" in place of "&" does not work, however
16:59 sekjal        I found that doing a title phrase search for a known title phrase containing "&" yielded no results;  Yet when I replace it with "amp", "&amp" or "&", I get my target record
16:56 owen          Does unapi have to be turned on somehow?
16:12 owen          But what steps would one have to take to reproduce this problem? Searching for a title with "&" in it, then.... what?
16:10 gmcharlt      opac-search.pl or C4/Search.pm; probably not the browser
16:10 owen          Sure, but where?
16:10 gmcharlt      owen: overnormalization of & to the & XML entity
16:07 owen          schuster: I'm still confused about how a search for "Diane Goode's book of silly stories & songs" would lead to a search containing "&"
16:06 owen          ...which seems correct to me.
16:06 owen          My searches for "&amp" return results starting with the title "Camp"
16:05 owen          Strangely on my test system I'm getting completely different results
16:04 schuster      sekjal same here.
16:02 sekjal        searching '&' yields no results for me
16:02 schuster      as mine does
16:02 schuster      when I search myacpl.org - with &amp the display is a little different it just has the &; rather than &
16:02 owen          ...but it's certainly not correct that a search for "amp" should return results containing "&"
16:01 sekjal        s/different/fewer/
16:01 sekjal        one different, but essentially, yes
16:00 owen          sekjal: You'll probably get the same result from searching for "amp" by itself.
16:00 sekjal        they do appear in a different relevancy order, though
16:00 sekjal        I get the same 19206 results when I search "&amp", "&amp", "&" etc.
16:00 owen          I'm just not sure how they would have ended up seeing the "&"
15:58 schuster      Same results though in staff client
15:58 owen          it's a problem with the way the OPAC encodes the "&" and how the search link interprets it I think
15:58 schuster      When I go to edit it in cataloging though it is just &
15:58 schuster      So they searched for &amp and found "&amp" in the records
15:57 schuster      I think someone was looking for Diane Goode's book of silly stories & songs / and came across Diane Goode's book of silly stories & songs /
15:55 owen          Why search for "&amp" ?
15:53 sekjal        schuster: I get the same result
15:52 owen          schuster: You're searching for "&amp" ?
15:50 schuster      A display problem?
15:50 schuster      just came across this oddity - does anyone else have it?  when you search &amp I get 82,000 hits in my catalog, but when you go to look at it to edit the record shows only &
15:36 paul_p        (mySQL start some process to have some free ones when needed)
15:36 paul_p        "Sleep   " => probably a process waiting for something to do
15:35 schuster      9302133 | pisdadmin | localhost | koha_pisd | Sleep   |   56 |       | NULL   when I do show processlist; that is what I get
15:35 paul_p        ah, ok. No idea
15:34 schuster      I wasn't doing a select - it just shows a process and there isn't a select after it so that's what the mystery is to determine "what" that process was doing.
15:34 paul_p        you'll get an array, saying how many rows from each table mysql will parse
15:34 paul_p        schuster: just put EXPLAIN before any query
15:34 owen          schuster: He just means put "EXPLAIN" before the SELECT you were doing
15:33 schuster      paul_p - nope so how would I know which blabla to look at?
14:59 paul_p        schuster: do you know EXPLAIN SELECT * FROM blabla ? that let you know the performance of a given query
14:57 schuster      eventually they go away, but just odd to have something sit there that long.
14:57 schuster      Is there any way to determine what that is?
14:57 schuster      MYSQL question - I have been noticing these sessions lately when I run show processlist; that are hanging around for like 158 seconds.
14:33 jwagner       Thanks again hdl_laptop
14:28 hdl_laptop    jwagner: yes
14:19 |Lupin|       gmcharlt: perfect, thanks a lot
14:19 |Lupin|       gmcharlt: has KOha a well-defined temporary directory that could be used ? perhaps an example of code that is correctly written and could be used as a source of inspiration ?
14:18 gmcharlt      there's an example in tools/picture-upload.pl
14:18 |Lupin|       gmcharlt: any funciton there ?
14:18 |Lupin|       gmcharlt: ok.
14:18 gmcharlt      |Lupin|: File::Temp
14:17 |Lupin|       gmcharlt: I'm wondering: what's the preferred way of creating temporary files in Koha, pls ?
14:17 gmcharlt      |Lupin|: yes
14:17 |Lupin|       hello sekjal
14:17 sekjal        hi, |Lupin|
14:16 |Lupin|       gmcharlt: around ?
14:16 |Lupin|       hi again, all
14:12 sekjal        morning, owen
14:12 owen          Hi sekjal
14:11 jwagner       Stalking through the code, it looks like an acquisition claim email is generated immediately when someone clicks Claim (similar to a hold pickup email).  Is that the case?  It doesn't seem to require a cron job like overdue notices.
14:06 schuster      Just read some of the discussion as noted to above.
14:06 schuster      sad... ;(
13:55 hdl_laptop    git.biblibre.com/koha branch master
13:53 paul_p        slef: bon appetit. Lunch is more than 1 hour away for us ;-)
13:53 paul_p        chris_n : seen your msg about pdf. You can speak with Kivutar (it's jean-andré nick on IRC) Although he didn't start to upgrade what I did previously (and that you can get on git.biblibre.com/biblibre_head)
13:53 slef          lunchtime in Somerset! bbl
13:52 slef          so no, I'm not going that way.
13:52 slef          checkmate in 3 moves
13:52 slef          yeah and then we go around the why-the-co-op-forked loop again
13:51 paul_p        slef++ (but I suggest not to go this way on the ML, because the answer will be "it was poor quality before, and, thanks us we worked hard to have something of good quality"
13:51 slef          that was josh's last, wasn't it?
13:50 slef          3.0.0 first announced as releasing by the end of 2006, actually released 11 Aug 2008.
13:50 paul_p        you mean 3.0.0, right ?
13:50 slef          yes
13:50 owen          slef: do you mean the unexpected delay of the release of 3.0?
13:50 hdl_laptop    do you mean the delay ?
13:49 slef          hdl_laptop: 1mo
13:49 hdl_laptop    slef: long 3.0 slip... can you explain ?
13:49 * chris_n     bites his tongue... hard
13:49 slef          hopefully someone else will before I do!
13:48 slef          I'm really quite angry about that email, so I'm not going to reply during work time.
13:48 slef          or shall I ask someone from the libraries hurt by the long 3.0 slip to reply?
13:45 slef          yeah, because Ed's or Brooke's reply will be so diplomatic
13:44 paul_p        (at least not a vendor)
13:44 * owen        isn't sure anyone should answer him this time
13:41 * paul_p      think USERS should answer to josh
13:41 Ropuch        hehe
13:39 hdl_laptop    koha 3 would never have come out
13:39 jwagner       Of course we all turn out perfect code every time, right?  No problem!
13:39 owen          If only we'd known that before...
13:38 owen          Joshua would like us to please not release software with bugs.
13:38 owen          *sigh*
13:37 chris_n       and hdl_laptop
13:37 hdl_laptop    hi owen
13:37 chris_n       hello owen
13:30 owen          Hi schuster
13:04 |Lupin|       k, see you later all, bye
12:47 |Lupin|       hdl_laptop: thanks also :)
12:47 hdl_laptop    jwagner: The package is quite well documented
12:47 jwagner       hdl_laptop, thanks -- that's what I needed.
12:46 hdl_laptop    |Lupin|: yes
12:45 hdl_laptop    see perldoc C4::Reserves
12:45 |Lupin|       hdl_laptop: and then ? just save them at the right place in git and call install-code fr-FR?
12:45 hdl_laptop    jwagner for a complete list,
12:44 hdl_laptop    jwagner : i confirm that whe a reserve has been satisfied, it goes to old_reserves.
12:44 hdl_laptop    you can download the po file from translate.koha.org take the 3.1 3.2 versions
12:41 |Lupin|       hdl_laptop: ?
12:37 |Lupin|       how can that be done ?
12:37 gmcharlt      hi hdl_laptop
12:37 hdl_laptop    hi gmcharlt
12:37 hdl_laptop    So it is possible to take this as a start
12:37 |Lupin|       gmcharlt: I think it would be enough, at least for a starting point
12:36 hdl_laptop    but 3.2 project is on pootle at the moment
12:36 gmcharlt      porting the 3.0.x translation would cover most strings, although not all, of course
12:36 hdl_laptop    hi |Lupin| no french ppl did this as far as i know
12:36 |Lupin|       hdl_laptop: I have to set-up a developemnt Koha but 3.04 would not work I think because of missing columns in the db
12:36 gmcharlt      |Lupin|: one possibility would be to work with chris to get the French translation started for 3.2
12:35 |Lupin|       hdl_laptop: I'm looking for an up-to-date translation for 3.2
12:35 hdl_laptop    ?
12:34 paul_p        |Lupin|: ask hdl_laptop or laurence, but I don't think so
12:34 |Lupin|       paul_p: yeah
12:33 chris_n       g'morning
12:32 jwagner       Question for folks on reserves and old_reserves.  It looks like when a hold is filled, the entry is moved from reserves to old_reserves, correct?  The "Found" field in old_reserves seems to get an F code for that situation, and it looks like a W code for holds that are cancelled.  Is there a list somewhere of all the possible codes and what they mean (for the Found field in old_reserves)?
12:30 paul_p        for 3.2 you mean ?
12:30 |Lupin|       paul_p: is there a more or less coherent frnech translation maintained for the development version of KOha, pls ?
12:30 jwagner       Hi |Lupin|
12:30 |Lupin|       hi jwagner
12:29 jwagner       Bonjour France
12:28 paul_p        'morning usa
12:28 jwagner       Who needs Hollywood?  The WORLD is calling!!! At least the Koha world :-)
12:27 owen          I still haven't gotten any calls from Hollywood agents
12:27 jwagner       They were well-earned props!
12:27 owen          :)
12:27 jwagner       Good morning, owen.  I gather jdavidb was keeping you updated about all the props I gave you during my training session this week :-)
12:23 |Lupin|       gmcharlt: hmm I feel a bit stuck because we will need a version of Koha where the translations are more or less corect, but we can't use 3.0.4 because there are missing columns in the db... ny recommandation ?
12:22 |Lupin|       gmcharlt: ok...
12:21 gmcharlt      I don't think so - 3.0.4 should just be bugfixes
12:21 |Lupin|       gmcharlt: I assume the changes in the db like the addition of olumns in the branches and borrowers table are not in 3.0.4... are they ?
12:21 jwagner       Good morning all.
12:20 |Lupin|       gmcharlt: ok.
12:18 slef          http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=en:development:roadmap3.2 needs update
12:16 gmcharlt      |Lupin|: at this point, bugfixing and translation would mean an additional month, probably two months before release of 3.2 gold
12:16 gmcharlt      |Lupin|: I'm planning to release a pre-alpha on November 4
12:15 |Lupin|       is there a date scheduled for the rlease of 3.2 ?
12:14 |Lupin|       pls everybody
12:14 Amit          hi slef
11:47 slef          I hate letting people down, but I'm getting mobile phone calls about a library network problem.
11:41 crackjack     i'll definitely send a mail to the kists
11:41 crackjack     it was a great help
11:41 crackjack     thanks for this buddy
11:41 crackjack     ok cool
11:39 slef          sorry - I try to do what I can, but I am not rich enough to work for everyone for free.
11:39 slef          please email koha@lists.katipo.co.nz rather than me.  If you email me, you'll be pointed there and to http://www.software.coop/contact/
11:38 slef          lines like <listen id="biblioserver" >unix:/home/ttllp/koha-dev-run/var/run/zebradb/bibliosocket</listen> defines the socket/port to use
11:37 crackjack     can you send me your email id??
11:36 crackjack     i;ll talk to you when you r freee'
11:36 crackjack     ok kool
11:36 crackjack     i don't see any
11:36 crackjack     where is the place to edit ports in xml file
11:35 slef          or to run differently somehow
11:34 slef          crackjack: sorry, I'm at work and need to concentrate on work.  Unless you edited the xml files to run them on different ports, that's not enough.
11:28 crackjack     no one here??
11:12 crackjack     am I right upto this point???
11:11 crackjack     then I included the path of dummy-conf.xml in the /usr/share/koha/bin/dummy-zebra-ctl.sh
11:10 crackjack     koha-conf.xml and koha-httpd.xml to dummy-conf.xml and dummy-httpd.xml
11:09 crackjack     then I copied all related files and renamed it accordingly as koha-zebra-server.sh to dummy-zebra-server.sh
11:08 crackjack     I have a default installation of koha in /usr/share/koha and its configuration files are in /etc/koha
11:08 crackjack     slef: I think I'n not clear to you yet,....let me explain in detail
11:05 slef          KOHA_CONF needs to match the koha whose index you are trying to rebuild
11:03 crackjack     slef: do you mean I need to change KOHA_CONF everytime I run rebiuld??
11:01 paul_p        yes, I know, that's why I just asked for more information about their platform. I'm (probably) wrong with koha express thing
11:01 slef          crackjack: you need to change to the right KOHA_CONF for the koha you're indexing at least.
11:00 slef          paul_p: maybe. But if LL is google tracking users, is that even legal for EU libraries?  (export of personal data without safe harbour)  I thought Beda was a long-time user and Koha Express is 3.0.2
10:58 crackjack     I have successfully run multiple zebra servers, only problem is with indexing
10:57 crackjack     I've also changed zebra sockets accordingly
10:57 crackjack     I've written KOHA_CONF=/etc/koha/dummy-conf.xml
10:56 crackjack     I have addred Listen 9090 in ports.conf
10:56 paul_p        slef: I've sent a response, asking for more information (maybe they use koha express, and LL adds a link to ll.com)
10:56 crackjack     I have added eth0:dummy with proper IP address
10:48 slef          ok, I won't
10:48 hdl_laptop    slef: I sent a response.
10:47 hdl_laptop    We use that.
10:47 hdl_laptop    crackjack: different koha-conf.xml and zebra sockets is ok.
10:47 slef          anyone got thoughts on that "strange behaviour of 3.04" email?
10:46 slef          kf: I've given up trying to understand which ptfs is the same as which ptfs.
10:46 slef          oh that only works if you compromise on security between web apps (don't run them as their own users) I think
10:46 kf            slef: I think its the same programmer here, both ptfs
10:46 slef          I forget :)
10:46 slef          maybe different zebra dbs is enough actually
10:45 slef          crackjack: then as long as you point to the right KOHA_CONF, all should be fine.
10:45 slef          crackjack: yes.  make sure you run different zebras on different ports and/or IPs.
10:45 slef          marking bugs as resolved without letting the requestor dissent can upset some people
10:44 munin         04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3494 enhancement, P5, ---, kohaprogrammers@ptfs.com, RESOLVED DUPLICATE, Option to bcc all notices
10:44 slef          I'd ask the unassigned bug 3494 how they differ from the other one.
10:41 crackjack     has anyone here tried multiple zebra, multiple database in a single machine???
10:39 kf            oh my
10:38 kf            hm it seems its too big
10:37 kf            hdl_laptop: can you check for ilsdi-strings in french translation? I wonder if there is something wrong with the German translation file
10:36 crackjack     can anyone help me with rebuild_zebra in multiple database, multiple zebra???
10:34 crackjack     what is the problem????There are data in the database, it also has the bibs record in the database
10:34 kf            I just tried to find those string in another translation - chinese. Can not find them there
10:34 crackjack     I'm running multiple zebra servers for multiple database hosting. But when I run rebuild_zebra, it doesnot re-build the bibs, it overlaps all the instances with the same record
10:33 kf            huh
10:27 hdl_laptop    (11:26:39) hdl_laptop: We should have a <code> tag which would be skipped by the translation
10:27 hdl_laptop    (11:26:13) kf: ah ok
10:27 hdl_laptop    (11:25:57) hdl_laptop: In fact, it is an example of response.
10:27 hdl_laptop    (11:25:43) hdl_laptop: And No it should never be translated.
10:27 hdl_laptop    Just read the code there.
10:23 hdl_laptop    yes.
10:23 kf            hdl_laptop: I have it open right now, want an example?
10:22 hdl_laptop    i will take a look at that.
10:22 kf            oh its opac not intrant
10:22 kf            hdl_laptop: perhaps you can take a look at the untranslated strings in German 3.2 intranet translation? Or I can copy you an example.
10:21 kf            its a bit difficult in translation
10:20 hdl_laptop    Is there a problem with ils-di ?
10:17 Ropuch        hehe
10:15 kf            hm ok, I just dont like it, when my translation is not 100% :)
10:14 chris         nope no new news
10:14 kf            I worked on translation yesterday, do you have news for those ils-di strings?
10:13 chris         yeah it will be fine
10:13 kf            but they are linked to each other, so it should not be a problem I hope
10:12 kf            makes sense :)
10:12 chris         my rule for duplicates is, the older one wins, ie the new gets marked a duplicate of the old one
10:10 chris         yep
10:10 chris         then sometime after that we will have a vote on irc probably
10:10 kf            today is only about koha foundation, right?
10:10 chris         and probably email asking for more volunteers
10:09 chris         we will talk about about it at next developer meeting
10:09 kf            and: how to decide which bug is the duplicate? they are both assigned. hm.
10:08 kf            when do you think will be decided about the roles for 3.4?
10:08 chris         basically its doing what you just did, finding duplicates, finding old bugs, pesterng people to test etc
10:07 chris         *nod*
10:06 kf            and what it means and how time consuming it is... I want to do many things but time is really a problem :(
10:06 kf            but not sure if I m the right person for the job
10:06 chris         cool
10:05 kf            I was thinking about it
10:04 chris         do you want the bug wrangler job? :-)
10:03 chris         marking things as duplicates is great
10:03 chris         yep
10:02 kf            is it ok to mark things as dublicate? I already found 4 bugs for "notice trigger does not work with default library"
10:02 kf            ah ok, perhaps I got it wrong, I found old templates for notices which seemd to be for hlt
10:01 chris         which was like the messagequeue is now
10:00 chris         hlt had one called attempted_contacts
10:00 chris         and yep those do look like duplicates
10:00 chris         hmm nope notifys wasnt an hlt one
09:57 kf            chris: I was looking at koha code and database yesterday for options to make notices work as we need them to work and found a table notifys - seems to be a hlt feature that was lost - can you remember how it worked?
09:55 munin         04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3260 enhancement, P5, ---, dbavousett@ptfs.com, ASSIGNED, Adding bcc to email notices
09:55 kf            bug 3260
09:55 munin         04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3494 enhancement, P5, ---, kohaprogrammers@ptfs.com, NEW, Option to bcc all notices
09:55 kf            bug 3494
09:55 kf            looking at bugs and enhancement request for notices, should I mark one of them as dublicate?
09:53 kf            hi chris
09:49 Amit          heya chris
09:48 chris         heh
09:46 Ropuch        And now i get a list with ISBn fields like: 9,78E+12
09:46 Ropuch        But it proved to be to hard to just fill-in: I've received a document that looks more like mashup than a bibliography
09:45 Ropuch        We have to spent lot of money till end of the year, so we're in little hurry. The 'scientists' have to send me lists of books, I;ve prepared a form for them (Title, Author, Year, ISbn etc)
09:44 Ropuch        Oh man, scientists are so dumb sometimes
09:43 chris         but it could be easier too
09:43 chris         there are certainly things a lot harder to install
09:38 Ropuch        But maybe I'm saying that beacause I've installed it a few times
09:37 Ropuch        Koha 3.0 install is quite easy when following wiki tutorial
09:36 chris         normally that isnt a problem the cpan ones take precedence (because of the way @INC is done)
09:35 Ropuch        s/I/It
09:34 Ropuch        I wasn't very smart of me
09:34 Ropuch        I've made him apt-get install perl modules without asking if he had done that via cpan
09:33 chris         im not sure that would be possible :)
09:31 Ropuch        I hope i didn't cause more confusion to Blr
09:29 chris         Ropuch++ #for trying
09:10 Ropuch        You may have the same module installed from cpan and .deb at the same time
09:00 Ropuch        Hm
08:56 Blr-1         perl -MMARC::File::XML -e 1could not find ParserDetails.ini in /usr/local/share/perl/5.10.0/XML/SAXUnable to provide required featuresCompilation failed in require.
08:56 Blr-1         could not find ParserDetails.ini in /usr/local/share/perl/5.10.0/XML/SAXUnable to provide required featuresCompilation failed in require.BEGIN failed--compilation aborted.
08:56 Blr-1         sorry
08:56 Blr-1         Mr.Ropuch # UTF-8 Defaults for Koha (added DATE by YOURNAME)init-connect='SET NAMES utf8'character-set-server=utf8collation-server=utf8_general_ci
08:55 Blr-1         ok sir
08:54 kf            hi Lupin
08:54 |Lupin|       hi
08:54 Ropuch        Hi |Lupin|
08:53 Ropuch        Did you get any output?
08:53 Ropuch        Try this
08:53 Ropuch        perl -MMARC::File::XML -e 1
08:52 Blr-1         working on KOha for the first time sir
08:51 Blr-1         clean install
08:51 Ropuch        I mean: do you have any koha database, or just doing clean install?
08:50 Ropuch        It's your first try with koha?
08:49 Blr-1         I tried to install the modules which u told
08:48 Blr-1         Koha errorThe following fatal error has occurred:Unable to provide required featuresCompilation failed in require at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Biblio.pm line 27.BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Biblio.pm line 27.Compilation failed in require at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Reserves.pm line 28.BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Reserves.pm line 28.Compilation failed in require at /usr/share
08:48 Blr-1         sir
08:48 Ropuch        I didn't get your question
08:48 Blr-1         yes sir
08:48 Ropuch        09:39 < UTCBLR> hello
08:48 Ropuch        Blr-1: 09:38 < Ropuch> You've  followed hardy install guide?
08:47 Blr-1         waiting for your reply
08:47 Blr-1         Mr. Ropuch
08:41 Ropuch        Hi hdl_laptop
08:41 hdl_laptop    hi all
08:40 UTCBLR        hello
08:38 Ropuch        You've  followed hardy install guide?
08:38 Ropuch        From the error you get I can guess you either don't have zoom & marc modules installed, or koha can't find them
08:37 Ropuch        UTCBLR: hm
08:37 Ropuch        And afair you need 'sudo cpan HTTP::OAI'
08:36 UTCBLR        Mr.Ropuch I have install it already
08:36 Ropuch        UTCBLR: http://pastebin.com/d6f8e165d < - try to install all the packages
08:34 Ropuch        http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=koha_3_install_guide_ubuntu_hardy
08:33 Ropuch        UTCBLR: sudo apt-get install libmarc-xml-perl libmarc-record-perl
08:33 UTCBLR        how are you doing sir
08:32 UTCBLR        Hello Mr Paul
08:32 paul_p        hello world !
08:32 UTCBLR        ok Mr. Ropuch
08:32 Ropuch        Ok, give me 1 minute
08:32 UTCBLR        I am using it on Debian Linux
08:31 Ropuch        What distro are you using?
08:31 Ropuch        Oh
08:31 UTCBLR        Mr. Ropuch what would be the problem ?
08:29 UTCBLR        Mr. Ropuch please help me in this regards, just look at the error message in the chat
08:28 UTCBLR        Koha errorThe following fatal error has occurred:Unable to provide required featuresCompilation failed in require at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Biblio.pm line 27.BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Biblio.pm line 27.Compilation failed in require at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Reserves.pm line 28.BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Reserves.pm line 28.Compilation failed in require at /usr/shar
08:28 Ropuch        Morning, paul_p
08:28 UTCBLR        yes my problem is
08:28 UTCBLR        oh yes Ropuch thanks
08:28 Ropuch        UTCBLR: what is your problem?
08:27 UTCBLR        can anybody help me
08:27 UTCBLR        Hello to all
08:25 Amit          heya nicomo
07:58 nicomo        hello Ropuch and all
07:58 Ropuch        I wonder if can buy a copy of MODx Web Development for my library
07:56 Ropuch        Hello nicomo
07:28 Ropuch        kf: thanks [;
07:27 Ropuch        Me neither
07:27 kf            Ropuch: if you need help with your homework ... (im not really awake right now)
07:26 kf            kf: when you need help with your homework ... ;)
07:25 Ropuch        It seems to be, but letm dive into it more ;>
07:25 kf            Ropuch: never heard that German is easy before... :)
07:24 kf            hi Amit
07:24 greenmang0    Ropuch: http://www.bbc.co.uk/languages/german/lj/
07:23 Amit          heya KF
07:21 Ropuch        And it seems to be quite easy to learn [;
07:20 Ropuch        I had my first german lesson yesterday
07:18 kf            morning Ropuch :)
07:16 Ropuch        Morning kf
07:14 kf            morning #koha
07:04 Ropuch        Hi magnusenger
06:52 Ropuch        Hello Amit
06:51 Amit          hi ropuch, indradg
06:51 Ropuch        Morning, #koha
06:48 UTCBLR        hello
06:11 yesan         bye
06:11 yesan         try install these
06:11 yesan         u haven't listed all the modules that are missing
06:11 UTCBLR        ok i will do
06:10 UTCBLR        i was out for a minute
06:10 UTCBLR        hello
06:09 yesan         Reserves.pm
06:09 yesan         Biblio.pm
06:09 yesan         Biblio.PM
06:09 yesan         like
06:09 yesan         lik
06:08 yesan         try installing those missing modules
06:08 yesan         UTCBLR
05:54 UTCBLR        Hopefully
05:54 UTCBLR        Mr. Chris can u help me
05:54 yesan         I know Amit, he might be too busy
05:53 UTCBLR        we can get help from some one else
05:53 UTCBLR        just forget about him
05:53 yesan         he has some problems
05:53 UTCBLR        Amit will not help us
05:53 yesan         Chris, Can u help UTCBLR
05:53 yesan         or someone
05:52 UTCBLR        Koha errorThe following fatal error has occurred:Unable to provide required featuresCompilation failed in require at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Biblio.pm line 27.BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Biblio.pm line 27.Compilation failed in require at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Reserves.pm line 28.BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Reserves.pm line 28.Compilation failed in require at /usr/shar
05:52 yesan         Amith may have a solution for this problem
05:51 yesan         amit
05:51 UTCBLR        Koha errorThe following fatal error has occurred:Unable to provide required featuresCompilation failed in require at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Biblio.pm line 27.BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Biblio.pm line 27.Compilation failed in require at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Reserves.pm line 28.BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Reserves.pm line 28.Compilation failed in require at /usr/shar
05:51 yesan         good
05:51 UTCBLR        yes
05:50 yesan         hello Israel
05:50 UTCBLR        he is not responding
05:50 UTCBLR        I think amit is busy
05:47 yesan         looks amith is there
05:47 Amit          heya yesan
05:47 yesan         Hello everyone
05:30 munin         brendan: Quote #42: "<chris_n> @gmcharlt: it's broken; how do I fix it? <munin> chris_n: Error: gmcharlt: is not a valid command." (added by chris_n at 09:17 AM, October 28, 2009)
05:30 brendan       @quote random
05:30 munin         brendan: Error: The command "random" is available in the Dict, Factoids, and Quote plugins.  Please specify the plugin whose command you wish to call by using its name as a command before "random".
05:30 brendan       @random
05:30 munin         brendan: Error: "quote" is not a valid command.
05:30 brendan       @quote
04:43 munin         brendan: The current temperature in New Delhi, India is 22.0�C (9:30 AM IST on October 29, 2009). Conditions: Smoke. Humidity: 43%. Dew Point: 9.0�C. Pressure: 30.09 in 1019 hPa (Steady).
04:43 brendan       @wunder new delhi, india
04:43 munin         brendan: The current temperature in New Orleans Lakefront, Louisiana is 22.0�C (11:19 PM CDT on October 28, 2009). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 83%. Dew Point: 19.0�C. Pressure: 29.92 in 1013 hPa (Steady).
04:43 brendan       @wunder new delhi, indian
04:34 munin         Amit: The current temperature in Bangalore, India is 22.0�C (8:30 AM IST on October 29, 2009). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 75%. Dew Point: 19.0�C.
04:34 Amit          @wunder Bangalore
04:28 brendan       yup it sure is windy here munin
04:28 munin         brendan: The current temperature in Northwest Goleta, Goleta, California is 15.3�C (9:22 PM PDT on October 28, 2009). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 27%. Dew Point: -4.0�C. Pressure: 29.94 in 1013.8 hPa (Rising).  Wind Advisory in effect until 3 am PDT Thursday... 
04:28 brendan       @wunder 93117
03:56 brendan       I think to get any matching you have to use the stage/manage found under tools
03:55 brendan       s/doea/does
03:55 brendan       I can't remember right now -- doea bulkmarcimport do any matching on the database
03:45 brendan       night chirs_n2
03:45 chris_n2      g'night #koha
03:33 brendan       great
03:32 Amit          yes
03:32 Amit          everything is fine
03:32 brendan       you been having a good time?
03:32 brendan       how you doing?
03:32 brendan       hey Amit
03:31 Amit          heya brendan
03:29 Amit          hi chris_n2
03:29 chris_n2      howdy Amit
03:29 Amit          good morning #koha
03:28 Amit          hi chris
02:24 chris_n2      back to win32 for a bit