| Time |
S |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:22 |
|
chris |
http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/s[…]uakes-off-Vanuatu |
| 00:22 |
|
chris |
:( |
| 00:24 |
|
pianohacker |
yikes |
| 00:24 |
|
pianohacker |
yet another tsunami - I hope this one isn't as damaging |
| 00:24 |
|
pianohacker |
good luck, chris |
| 00:25 |
|
chris |
yeah i hope it is a false alarm |
| 00:25 |
|
mason |
3 in 1 week? |
| 00:26 |
|
pianohacker |
you too, mason, Jo |
| 00:27 |
|
mason |
heya, yep |
| 00:28 |
|
pianohacker |
south |
| 00:28 |
|
pianohacker |
_pacific/*, for that matter. at least the initial earthquake did less damage |
| 00:29 |
|
chris |
yeah, theres not much left in samoa too damage |
| 00:29 |
|
chris |
to even |
| 00:44 |
|
chris |
alert cancelled |
| 00:48 |
|
|
gmcharlt joined #koha |
| 00:50 |
|
chris |
heya gmcharlt |
| 00:51 |
|
gmcharlt |
hi chris |
| 00:51 |
|
* gmcharlt |
loves in-flight wifi |
| 00:53 |
|
chris |
:) |
| 00:55 |
|
|
ricardo joined #koha |
| 00:55 |
|
ricardo |
Hi all |
| 00:56 |
|
ricardo |
chris: stll here? |
| 00:56 |
|
chris |
yep |
| 00:57 |
|
ricardo |
chris: Great! :) |
| 00:57 |
|
ricardo |
With the help of hdl, I located a problem in the PO file... and I fixed it |
| 00:57 |
|
chris |
its weird that it was working fine for me |
| 00:57 |
|
chris |
with the version from git |
| 00:58 |
|
chris |
still does in fact |
| 00:58 |
|
ricardo |
chris: Yeah, weird... But when doing this small correction, when I re-generate the templates, all dirs appear |
| 00:59 |
|
chris |
best fix it in pootle too then, so it makes it into git |
| 01:00 |
|
chris |
or tell me what line and ill fix it |
| 01:00 |
|
ricardo |
chris: Hmm.... The fix is pretty small (just 2 lines). http://git.koha.org/cgi-bin/gi[…]b987b95f;hb=3.0.x |
| 01:00 |
|
ricardo |
http://git.koha.org/cgi-bin/gi[…]b987b95f;hb=3.0.x |
| 01:00 |
|
ricardo |
It's in lines 5635 to 5638 of that file |
| 01:01 |
|
ricardo |
Basically line 5637 should go away |
| 01:02 |
|
ricardo |
and the content of line 5638 should go inside the quotes of line 5636 (the msgstr "" line) |
| 01:03 |
|
chris |
ahh another reason why not to use a text editor to edit .po files :-) |
| 01:03 |
|
ricardo |
Should I submit this as a patch, do you want to fix this yourself or should it be easy for me to do this with Pootle? |
| 01:03 |
|
* chris |
will fix and commit it |
| 01:03 |
|
ricardo |
chris: Great, thanks! :) |
| 01:03 |
|
ricardo |
Oops |
| 01:03 |
|
ricardo |
Small fix-to-the-fix |
| 01:04 |
|
ricardo |
When you put the contents of line 5638 inside the quotes of line 5636... |
| 01:04 |
|
ricardo |
you must change "<a2>" to "<a1>" |
| 01:05 |
|
ricardo |
Clear enough? :-/ |
| 01:05 |
|
ricardo |
chris ? |
| 01:05 |
|
chris |
yep there is an error on the one below it too, will fix that |
| 01:06 |
|
chris |
also |
| 01:07 |
|
ricardo |
chris: Yeah... The one below was not so serious, but sure... it makes sense so correct that as well, while you're at it |
| 01:09 |
|
chris |
pushing now |
| 01:10 |
|
ricardo |
chris: Cool :) |
| 01:10 |
|
ricardo |
Seeing them now |
| 01:11 |
|
ricardo |
chris: Many thanks :) |
| 01:12 |
|
chris |
no worries |
| 01:13 |
|
ricardo |
This was one hard and strange bug to debug (cause and effect were not really logical, apparently) |
| 01:13 |
|
chris |
yeah and it must be related to a version of gettext |
| 01:13 |
|
chris |
since here it just skipped over that and did the rest |
| 01:14 |
|
ricardo |
chris: Interesting... What is your distro / version? What version of gettext are you running? |
| 01:14 |
|
chris |
debian unstable |
| 01:15 |
|
chris |
gettext (GNU gettext-runtime) 0.17 |
| 01:17 |
|
ricardo |
# more /etc/debian_version |
| 01:18 |
|
ricardo |
5.0.3 |
| 01:18 |
|
ricardo |
# gettext --version |
| 01:18 |
|
ricardo |
gettext (GNU gettext-runtime) 0.17 |
| 01:18 |
|
chris |
weird |
| 01:20 |
|
ricardo |
yeah |
| 01:20 |
|
pianohacker |
same here, with same observed effects as ricardo |
| 01:20 |
|
ricardo |
pianohacker: Thanks for the feedback... Some other difference then. |
| 01:23 |
|
ricardo |
(and there's my 1st "silent" conflict in git... a merge done too well. Don't worry: it's NOT related to the problem we were discussing here. It was related to C4/Search.pm) |
| 01:24 |
|
ricardo |
Maybe I should undo my commits locally after sending them by "git-send-email"? |
| 01:25 |
|
chris |
nope |
| 01:25 |
|
chris |
but you shouldnt be doing your commits on master |
| 01:25 |
|
ricardo |
chris: Don't worry. I'm NOT doing that :) |
| 01:25 |
|
chris |
or 3.0.x etc |
| 01:25 |
|
ricardo |
right... |
| 01:25 |
|
ricardo |
I only use those 2 for pulling |
| 01:25 |
|
chris |
good :) |
| 01:26 |
|
chris |
once i submit my patches, my branch is done |
| 01:26 |
|
ricardo |
I have "rickoha30x" and "rickohamaster" for commiting / rebasing / merging |
| 01:26 |
|
chris |
and i start a new one |
| 01:26 |
|
ricardo |
chris: That's what I was thinking... |
| 01:26 |
|
ricardo |
(once i submit my patches, my branch is done) |
| 01:26 |
|
chris |
(i leave it there, just dont use it) |
| 01:26 |
|
ricardo |
Right |
| 01:27 |
|
pianohacker |
chris: do you remove the branch on acceptance of patch |
| 01:27 |
|
pianohacker |
? |
| 01:27 |
|
chris |
sometimes |
| 01:27 |
|
ricardo |
chris: In this case "hdl" didn't apply my proposed patch to the file (C4/Search.pm), but instead changed something else in the file (and I agreed to that)... So, if I do a git pull, the file gets BOTH changes and, in this case, it should only keep hdl change |
| 01:27 |
|
chris |
yeah |
| 01:28 |
|
chris |
i never pull into my work branches |
| 01:28 |
|
chris |
i fetch and rebase my 3.0.x and master one .. then merge into my work branch |
| 01:29 |
|
chris |
pianohacker: if i have pushed that branch up remotely somewhere, then yep i delete it locally |
| 01:29 |
|
ricardo |
chris: rebase? But if you're cleaning your 3.0.x / master "clean", you don't have local commits in those branches to rebase on top of their "origin"s... right? |
| 01:30 |
|
ricardo |
s/ if you're cleaning/if you're keeping |
| 01:30 |
|
chris |
nope but i still like to rebase versus merge |
| 01:30 |
|
chris |
on my pristine branches |
| 01:31 |
|
pianohacker |
for what reason? if it's a clean pull (fast-forward), it's the same difference, no? |
| 01:31 |
|
ricardo |
chris: Well, I think in that case it makes no difference. But, yeah... if you don't "touch" those branches, maybe rebasing instead of merging, avoids getting some "merge" messages in the commit history, not sure |
| 01:31 |
|
chris |
yep, it does |
| 01:31 |
|
chris |
you dont end up wiht merge messages |
| 01:32 |
|
ricardo |
chris: That's the only advantage (and difference) that I see, between both approaches, for a "pure mirror" scenario, like the one you're describing |
| 01:32 |
|
chris |
yep thats the reason i do it |
| 01:32 |
|
ricardo |
OK :) |
| 01:33 |
|
chris |
because i push from there up to gitorious and github |
| 01:33 |
|
ricardo |
I'm officially now TWO steps above... git newbie! ;-) |
| 01:33 |
|
chris |
and i dont want to push up all the merge stuff |
| 01:33 |
|
ricardo |
chris: OK |
| 01:33 |
|
chris |
basically i want it to be an exact mirror |
| 01:33 |
|
ricardo |
chris: RIGHT! |
| 01:36 |
|
thd |
chris: what was the Koha wiki using before DokuWiki? |
| 01:37 |
|
chris |
cant remember |
| 01:38 |
|
thd |
chris: Yet there was one previously? |
| 01:38 |
|
chris |
yes |
| 01:38 |
|
chris |
for ages |
| 01:38 |
|
chris |
hosted by roger buck in australia |
| 01:39 |
|
chris |
march 20, 2002 it started |
| 01:39 |
|
pianohacker |
do you have a url? earliest in wayback is 2006 as dokuwiki |
| 01:39 |
|
thd |
yes so wiki.koha.org was not the URL? |
| 01:39 |
|
chris |
nope |
| 01:40 |
|
chris |
it was http://www.saas.nsw.edu.au/wiki/index.php |
| 01:40 |
|
chris |
then it moved to |
| 01:40 |
|
chris |
http://www.saas.nsw.edu.au/koha_wiki/index.php |
| 01:41 |
|
chris |
didnt move to wiki.koha.org until after liblime existed, sometime in 2006 |
| 01:41 |
|
chris |
or late 2005 |
| 01:43 |
|
pianohacker |
based on http://web.archive.org/web/200[…]edu.au/koha_wiki/, seems to be something called tavi |
| 01:44 |
|
chris |
it did the job |
| 01:44 |
|
ricardo |
chris: Interesting. I didn't know that |
| 01:44 |
|
pianohacker |
looks similar to dokuwiki |
| 01:44 |
|
ricardo |
pianohacker: Thanks for that info as well :) |
| 01:44 |
|
pianohacker |
or moinmoin, rather |
| 01:44 |
|
ricardo |
Well... Almost 3 AM now and I have to wake up early for work. |
| 01:44 |
|
ricardo |
I'm leaving now |
| 01:44 |
|
chris |
night ricardo |
| 01:44 |
|
ricardo |
chris: Thank you very much for everything! :) |
| 01:44 |
|
pianohacker |
good night, thanks for your translation work |
| 01:45 |
|
ricardo |
pianohacker: You're welcome... Thanks for also testing this |
| 01:45 |
|
* chris |
just got updated russian and ukranian .po files plus updated sql |
| 01:45 |
|
pianohacker |
np, least i could do |
| 01:46 |
|
ricardo |
@later tell hdl: Correcting the problematic section of the PO Portuguese staff file that you pointed out solved the "strange redirect problem". Thanks! :) Chris has already pushed the updated version to git |
| 01:46 |
|
munin` |
ricardo: The operation succeeded. |
| 01:46 |
|
pianohacker |
chris: cool. wish I could figure out a good way to make the .pref files translateable, though |
| 01:46 |
|
ricardo |
Thanks munin` ;-) |
| 01:46 |
|
ricardo |
(I hope the syntax was correct) |
| 01:46 |
|
ricardo |
Bye people! |
| 01:46 |
|
pianohacker |
I think the colon will cause problems |
| 01:47 |
|
ricardo |
pianohacker: That's what I was thinking |
| 01:47 |
|
ricardo |
Take 2 |
| 01:47 |
|
ricardo |
@later tell hdl Correcting the problematic section of the PO Portuguese staff file that you pointed out solved the "strange redirect problem". Thanks! :) Chris has already pushed the updated version to git |
| 01:47 |
|
munin` |
ricardo: The operation succeeded. |
| 01:47 |
|
ricardo |
There... just in case. |
| 01:47 |
|
ricardo |
Sleep time. Take care! |
| 01:47 |
|
|
ricardo left #koha |
| 01:48 |
|
|
thd is now known as thd-laundry |
| 01:49 |
|
pianohacker |
what would the koha project do without people with weird sleep schedules |
| 01:51 |
|
chris |
heh |
| 01:51 |
|
gmcharlt |
become a boring 9 to 5 job? |
| 01:52 |
|
pianohacker |
bah. I can't remember the last time I did anything nine to five |
| 01:52 |
|
gmcharlt |
now, did I specify 9 a.m. to 5 p.m.? ;) |
| 01:52 |
|
pianohacker |
ahahaha |
| 01:52 |
|
pianohacker |
there you go |
| 02:18 |
|
|
gmcharlt left #koha |
| 02:28 |
|
|
thd-laundry is now known as thd |
| 02:29 |
|
thd |
jo: are you there? |
| 02:35 |
|
thd |
Is there anyone from NZ around who can clarify an issue about NZ charitable trusts? |
| 02:35 |
|
chris |
probably not |
| 02:36 |
|
thd |
I will ask on the mailing list. |
| 02:37 |
|
thd |
chris: what do you think of the majority vote for foundation now? |
| 02:37 |
|
chris |
it was what i feared would happen |
| 02:38 |
|
chris |
democracy only works if people understand the issues |
| 02:38 |
|
thd |
I presumed that was the less well informed vote about the practical problem |
| 02:38 |
|
chris |
i think most people think they were voting for the final solution |
| 02:39 |
|
chris |
(who voted for form a foundation now) |
| 02:40 |
|
chris |
im also worried that so many think a foundation/association will be able to govern |
| 02:40 |
|
thd |
chris: we need to explain the issues on the mailing list where maybe people will understand that foundation now means foundation later and not now because it would take to long to agree on things. |
| 02:40 |
|
chris |
yeah |
| 02:40 |
|
thd |
chris: What would the foundation have to govern? |
| 02:40 |
|
chris |
i dont know, but people seem to want it to govern |
| 02:41 |
|
chris |
i just want it as a place to store community property |
| 02:41 |
|
chris |
people seem to think it would be able to have stopped things like the fork etc |
| 02:41 |
|
richard |
i would have thought the only thing it would govern are the domain names and being the copyright holder |
| 02:41 |
|
thd |
I suppose I do as well in the sense that we need some procedures for agreeing how to use community property |
| 02:41 |
|
chris |
or would be able to govern the project/control direction |
| 02:42 |
|
thd |
controlling the project in terms of directing development is silly |
| 02:42 |
|
chris |
thd and richard, i agree wholeheartedly |
| 02:43 |
|
chris |
http://www.librarytechnology.o[…]adID=126&BlogID=1 things like this |
| 02:43 |
|
richard |
yeah, the direction of development is from people wanting to develop a feature stuff and getting it done - not some entity saying that this is what you should develop next |
| 02:44 |
|
thd |
although I can imagine an interest in marshalling some effort at fixing neglected bugs or allowing companies to cooperate better where there are not enough discrete customers to demand something everyone really wants |
| 02:46 |
|
chris |
yep as long as people realise a foundation has no control over what people do |
| 02:46 |
|
chris |
trying to set one up to control the project = recipe for fail |
| 02:47 |
|
chris |
one to hold property so it cant be misused = win |
| 02:47 |
|
chris |
IMHO anyway |
| 02:47 |
|
thd |
I think that it could do more by degrees |
| 02:47 |
|
chris |
it could influence direction sure |
| 02:48 |
|
chris |
if people wanted to let it |
| 02:48 |
|
chris |
i fear that people think it will magically stop situations like what has occured with liblime happening |
| 02:48 |
|
thd |
It could also help people share resources, exactly if people wanted to provide resources to the foundation expressly for sharing |
| 02:48 |
|
chris |
yep |
| 02:49 |
|
thd |
the license allows LibLime to do what it is doing with the code. |
| 02:50 |
|
chris |
exactly |
| 02:50 |
|
chris |
and having a foundation wouldnt change that one bit |
| 02:51 |
|
thd |
no one can force cooperation from people even with a slightly different license which covers some problems. |
| 02:51 |
|
chris |
yep |
| 02:52 |
|
pianohacker |
you can strongly encourage cooperation, but not force it |
| 02:52 |
|
pianohacker |
same with direction of dev |
| 02:52 |
|
pianohacker |
elopment |
| 02:52 |
|
chris |
things like this make me fearful |
| 02:52 |
|
chris |
I think this article from K Schneider, Free Range Librarian, is well worth everyone's attention, especially as it brings back into the focus the need for a thriving and well structured governance layer within the Koha Foundation. |
| 02:53 |
|
thd |
I have some questions which I would like to put to SFLC but I do not want to be asking merely privately. |
| 02:53 |
|
chris |
http://freerangelibrarian.com/[…]ource-leadership/ |
| 02:53 |
|
Jo |
hi all - just reading back |
| 02:53 |
|
chris |
and that |
| 02:53 |
|
thd |
Jo: Can you answer some question about NZ charitable trusts? |
| 02:53 |
|
Jo |
sure |
| 02:54 |
|
chris |
"Like a lot of software projects, Koha’s movement toward coherent self-government has lagged behind its software development and adoption, and this has left the project in a position where no one legally-recognized entity can say to Liblime, “No, you can’t do that.†Koha has a nascent user group, and has been talking about a foundation, but it hasn’t got to a place where Koha belongs to Koha, with a clearly-defined legal entity." |
| 02:54 |
|
Jo |
(totally confident) |
| 02:54 |
|
chris |
stuff like that, which people seem to believe is possible makes me worried |
| 02:55 |
|
Jo |
This is a good resource too: http://www.community.net.nz/ho[…]ritable-trust.htm |
| 02:55 |
|
chris |
frankly a thriving governance layer that tries to govern the project would probably be the only reason id ever fork :-) |
| 02:55 |
|
thd |
Jo: We discovered that in the US the Internal Revenue Service has a rule that assets cannot be transferred to a non-US based nonprofit. |
| 02:55 |
|
Jo |
and this is relebvant: http://www.community.net.nz/ho[…]s/landingpage.htm |
| 02:55 |
|
Jo |
thd: ok. |
| 02:56 |
|
Jo |
so can't be transferred from 1 us based charitable trust to an off shore charitable trust |
| 02:56 |
|
thd |
Jo: Do you know of any similar tax rule affecting NZ charitable trusts? |
| 02:56 |
|
Jo |
no - but i will investigate |
| 02:56 |
|
Jo |
but regardless, they can be sold for 41 |
| 02:56 |
|
Jo |
sorry $1 (not 41) |
| 02:56 |
|
Jo |
ie sold for a peppercorn |
| 02:57 |
|
Jo |
(muses that I sold a limited liability company for $1 once) |
| 02:58 |
|
thd |
Jo: I am not certain if a $1 sale would pass in the US if some US charity would be watching over the sale and worrying about what the IRS might think.. |
| 02:59 |
|
Jo |
make it a tenner then :) |
| 02:59 |
|
Jo |
(i'm off looking now ...) |
| 02:59 |
|
thd |
Jo: I think many want some place in the US and Europe to give resources |
| 03:00 |
|
Jo |
so US based people who want to give stuff want a US based koha trust/org/foundation? |
| 03:00 |
|
thd |
Jo: Could HLT set up some place to hold money in a US and French bank? |
| 03:01 |
|
Jo |
I don't know the answer to that either. I do however have a lawyer I can all these questions of |
| 03:01 |
|
thd |
Jo: Well the less which is lost through currency conversion the better. |
| 03:02 |
|
thd |
Jo: If donated resources are spent in the originating currency they can pay for a little more. |
| 03:03 |
|
thd |
Jo: There is also the issue of perhaps obtaining grants from US and European organisations which grant only within their own regions. |
| 03:06 |
|
Jo |
sure. |
| 03:08 |
|
Jo |
I think we would be a good body to hold the copyright, trademarks and domain name in trust for the community at large. Not at all sure the Trustees would be keen to get heavily involved personally in lots of big stuff. |
| 03:08 |
|
Jo |
I see the Trust as an interim step |
| 03:08 |
|
Jo |
a fast, immediate, pair of safe hands |
| 03:08 |
|
chris |
i see that as perfect |
| 03:08 |
|
chris |
;) |
| 03:08 |
|
Jo |
whci is what we need - now - immediately. |
| 03:09 |
|
chris |
frankly something that gets heavily involved sounds like a recipe for a mess to me |
| 03:09 |
|
Jo |
the koha.org site is a bloody joke |
| 03:09 |
|
Jo |
its a liblime advertsiing site |
| 03:09 |
|
chris |
yup |
| 03:09 |
|
Jo |
and anyone who didn't know the history would think that liblime IS koha |
| 03:09 |
|
chris |
indeed |
| 03:10 |
|
Jo |
and i think HLT needs to stand up very quietly and politely, and ask for Liblime to give the community assets back to the community. |
| 03:11 |
|
Jo |
if they refuse, or insist on a sale at an unreasonable price ie more than just a token price, then the Koha community needs to seriously rethink what we want to call ourselves.... coz Koha is not and can never be just 1 vendor |
| 03:12 |
|
Jo |
which is the myth being perpetuated in the States and through koha.org at the moment |
| 03:12 |
|
thd |
Jo: I see at as interim as well but people in the US may have an easier time helping the long term if they can give to somewhere that they can pretend is in the US even if it is really in NZ or wherever. |
| 03:12 |
|
Jo |
sure. |
| 03:13 |
|
Jo |
so i see 2 issues: |
| 03:13 |
|
Jo |
immediate problem: reclaim koha assets for the koha community |
| 03:13 |
|
Jo |
mid - long term: tease out the Koha foundation tangle and see what options are and what needs to be done |
| 03:14 |
|
Jo |
2nd one can not be rushed |
| 03:14 |
|
thd |
People need to be persuaded with the reality that the second cannot or should not be rushed. |
| 03:15 |
|
Jo |
yes they do. |
| 03:15 |
|
chris |
yep |
| 03:15 |
|
thd |
Jo: 56% of those who voted did not understand that. |
| 03:15 |
|
Jo |
thatis our very real problem |
| 03:15 |
|
thd |
the second highest vote was for HLT. |
| 03:16 |
|
chris |
if you look at the raw data |
| 03:16 |
|
chris |
the people most involved in koha voted for hlt or spi |
| 03:16 |
|
Jo |
well, thats the problem with democracy :) |
| 03:16 |
|
chris |
the people new to koha voted for a new foundation |
| 03:16 |
|
chris |
this is the issue we face |
| 03:17 |
|
Jo |
i wonder if HLT should just take the lead |
| 03:17 |
|
chris |
naw, dont wanna pull a liblime |
| 03:17 |
|
chris |
thats what it will forever be known as |
| 03:17 |
|
Jo |
and ask for BibLibre and Liblime to please give the stuff back |
| 03:17 |
|
Jo |
immediate problem solved |
| 03:17 |
|
chris |
"pulling a liblime" = doing stuff without consultation |
| 03:17 |
|
Jo |
I know - I get that. |
| 03:17 |
|
thd |
exactly |
| 03:18 |
|
thd |
Jo: HLT has trust because they have never asserted a legacy interest in promoting their own interests |
| 03:19 |
|
Jo |
excatly |
| 03:19 |
|
Jo |
and nor do we want to now |
| 03:19 |
|
thd |
Jo: Showing leadership is one thing but be careful about how to be seen to promote that leadership. |
| 03:20 |
|
Jo |
sigh ... ok ..... which brings us back to the vote whioch was clearly confusing and not understood |
| 03:20 |
|
Jo |
(I'm really a bully / dictator you know ....) |
| 03:21 |
|
chris |
:-) |
| 03:21 |
|
thd |
I think that the biggest disadvantage to SPI and the Conservancy is that the project will not get the attention which it can get from HLT with no real investment on the part of HLT |
| 03:21 |
|
pianohacker |
we want to consider the results carefully, though, to avoid charges of "well why did you have the poll if you're just going to ignore it?" |
| 03:22 |
|
thd |
At least nengard thinks that the question was not explained well on the ballot |
| 03:22 |
|
Jo |
yep |
| 03:22 |
|
Jo |
totally agree |
| 03:22 |
|
chris |
spi, conservancy, hlt are all fine with me |
| 03:22 |
|
Jo |
we need wise words from the kaitiaki |
| 03:23 |
|
chris |
hlt would be the preference |
| 03:23 |
|
Jo |
i don't want the community to be expecting big 'action-man' response from HLT |
| 03:23 |
|
Jo |
coz it won't happen |
| 03:23 |
|
chris |
thats why i favour hlt |
| 03:23 |
|
chris |
:) |
| 03:23 |
|
Jo |
we are low key, relaxed, honest, trusting |
| 03:23 |
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Amit joined #koha |
| 03:23 |
|
thd |
pianohacker: we obviously cannot ignore the result of the poll. The only advantage we have is a little time before the final poll on the issue. |
| 03:23 |
|
Amit |
hi chris, brendan |
| 03:24 |
|
Jo |
hiya |
| 03:24 |
|
chris |
yeah someone who is gonna tell me what to work on = not gonna fly |
| 03:24 |
|
Amit |
good morning #koha |
| 03:24 |
|
pianohacker |
thd: yes |
| 03:24 |
|
Amit |
heya Jo |
| 03:24 |
|
Jo |
and we absolutely do believe in the koha community is the best 'ruler' of the koha community |
| 03:24 |
|
thd |
We can also be certain that the wording of the poll is reviewed by everyone before it is published. |
| 03:25 |
|
pianohacker |
chris: if the foundation were to pull together resources and _hire_ a developer, that would be entirely different |
| 03:25 |
|
Jo |
its almost like there is a part A and part B |
| 03:25 |
|
Jo |
part A has 2 questions: |
| 03:25 |
|
chris |
pianohacker: indeed :) |
| 03:25 |
|
chris |
pianohacker: that would be great |
| 03:25 |
|
Jo |
Q1: should HLT be asked to secure koha stuff and hold in trust for the community |
| 03:26 |
|
Jo |
yes and no |
| 03:26 |
|
Jo |
immediate response in other words |
| 03:26 |
|
pianohacker |
(of course, this is a fully-fledged foundation and not an intermediate trust) |
| 03:26 |
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| 03:26 |
|
thd |
Jo: the statement in the wiki about how HLT would accommodate the project would give more autonomy to the project than any non-independent entity. |
| 03:27 |
|
Jo |
Q2 Or should the community do nothing in haste and proceed with investigations to either set up a koha foundation or join something bigger |
| 03:27 |
|
Jo |
then the second part of the poll comes in : ie a bunch of options. |
| 03:28 |
|
thd |
Jo: I like the way you put those questions. |
| 03:28 |
|
thd |
You can get any result you want if you ask in the right way. |
| 03:29 |
|
Jo |
needs to be made very clear to koha community at large that the trustees would do this with a light hand ... the commun ity will still have to step forward and volunteer and nominate officeholders and coordinate development, training, conferences etc |
| 03:29 |
|
thd |
The questions should be seen to be a little more neutral. |
| 03:30 |
|
Jo |
(I speak a little too crisply or bluntly sometimes - especially wjhen excited :) My words can always be smoothed and softened and rephrased ;) |
| 03:30 |
|
thd |
Jo: all the competing organisations let the projects run themselves but others have more rules about how to interact with the holding organisation. |
| 03:30 |
|
chris |
well not IFLA |
| 03:31 |
|
Jo |
My Trustees want to be clear what the communitys expectations of them are. |
| 03:31 |
|
Jo |
not into overpromising and underdelivering |
| 03:31 |
|
thd |
IFLA is not a holding organisation and should have been a different ballot question. |
| 03:31 |
|
chris |
yeah |
| 03:31 |
|
chris |
ppl voted for it though |
| 03:32 |
|
chris |
librarians seem to like huge committees that talk all the time and do very little |
| 03:32 |
|
* chris |
generalises grossly |
| 03:32 |
|
thd |
Jo: People should not expect more than what the project contributes on its own. |
| 03:32 |
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gmcharlt left #koha |
| 03:32 |
|
pianohacker |
*cough* frbr *cough* |
| 03:33 |
|
thd |
Jo: People just need a legal entity to allow the project to do whatever it needs to do without too much trouble. |
| 03:33 |
|
Jo |
Chris: agreed .. and get all over organised and bossy and nit picky and 'superior' (and yes I am a librarian) |
| 03:33 |
|
Jo |
pianohacker: bad cough mate - should get that looked at :) |
| 03:34 |
|
pianohacker |
Jo: yeah, yeah |
| 03:34 |
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Amit left #koha |
| 03:34 |
|
Jo |
so, we appear to be all agreed |
| 03:34 |
|
thd |
people should be thankful that HLT is there to help even a little. |
| 03:34 |
|
Jo |
so how to proceed |
| 03:36 |
|
thd |
Jo: People need to comment on the poll results and related matters. |
| 03:36 |
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Amit joined #koha |
| 03:36 |
|
Jo |
hello AMit! |
| 03:36 |
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| 03:36 |
|
Jo |
so this discussion we have just had really needed to be on the list |
| 03:36 |
|
Jo |
waves at Galen |
| 03:37 |
|
* gmcharlt |
waves at Jo |
| 03:37 |
|
thd |
People should express what they believe about whether the ballot question was well understood. |
| 03:37 |
|
Jo |
I don't think it was clear |
| 03:37 |
|
Jo |
so really good exercise to go through in that it has higghlighted the con fusion |
| 03:37 |
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| 03:38 |
|
thd |
The question should be asked as to whether people think that a foundation could really be set up now. |
| 03:38 |
|
thd |
How many people have set up foundations and had them flourish. |
| 03:39 |
|
Amit |
heya Jo |
| 03:39 |
|
thd |
I have seen organisations killed on the first meeting with some poor bylaws. |
| 03:39 |
|
Amit |
chris: Today Bangalore workshop started |
| 03:39 |
|
gmcharlt |
whether a foundation *can* be set up I would argue is not actually something that Koha people in general can answer - it will ultimately depend on *some* people having the will and/or the institution backing to go through with it |
| 03:41 |
|
Jo |
I'm going to scan and load the HLT trust deed online. |
| 03:41 |
|
Jo |
sets out what we can and can' |
| 03:41 |
|
thd |
gmcharlt: I am confident it was there but it took Jbrice 2 years to start KUDOS because he became too busy. |
| 03:41 |
|
Jo |
cant do |
| 03:42 |
|
thd |
Jo: Do you have an accountant or someone to ask about holding monetary donations in the US and France? |
| 03:43 |
|
Jo |
yep. |
| 03:43 |
|
chris |
Amit: cool :) |
| 03:44 |
|
thd |
Actually, with only 165 votes it would be very easy to find a few more votes to swing any outcome which is my biggest concern about contentious issues. |
| 03:44 |
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| 03:44 |
|
Jo |
heres our HLT Trust Deed: http://kete.library.org.nz/tru[…]/39-deed-of-trust |
| 03:45 |
|
thd |
We should have more people voting if we can have informed people voting. |
| 03:46 |
|
thd |
Jo: How independent is HLT of local government control? |
| 03:47 |
|
Jo |
"Trust has all of the same powers as a natural person" |
| 03:47 |
|
Jo |
the trustees are appointed by the District Council |
| 03:47 |
|
Jo |
we have a management agreement which sets out agreed performance measures |
| 03:48 |
|
Jo |
are audited by Audit NZ (central Govt auditors) |
| 03:48 |
|
Jo |
get 85% funding from local council rest from fees and charges and grants and donations |
| 03:49 |
|
Jo |
so, basically if it got really shitty council could theoretically starve us of funding, or appoint crappy trustees. |
| 03:49 |
|
Jo |
but it has never happened. |
| 03:50 |
|
Jo |
clause 20 of the deed looks interesting: Power to Create Classes of members |
| 03:51 |
|
Jo |
and the schedule |
| 03:51 |
|
Jo |
we can invrest in NZ or overseas |
| 03:52 |
|
Jo |
schdule 20s: delegate to committee |
| 03:53 |
|
Jo |
"Bank accounts: open an account at any bank" schedule k |
| 03:53 |
|
Jo |
schedules for delegate to committee |
| 03:53 |
|
Jo |
that was what i envisaged for the Koha group : a sub committee of the Trust |
| 03:54 |
|
Jo |
so yes to bank account in France or USA (we have a paypall account in the states :) |
| 03:55 |
|
Jo |
schedule t: (I love this one) Do such other acts and things as the Trustees wants ... |
| 04:03 |
|
pianohacker |
off to vpn land, cya all tomorrow |
| 04:03 |
|
thd |
Jo: Wow, you seem to have much more discretion than any US non-profit would have. |
| 04:03 |
|
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| 04:04 |
|
thd |
Jo: In the US non-profits cannot do things outside far to many rules. |
| 04:04 |
|
chris |
thd: yes charitable trusts are set up for that reason |
| 04:05 |
|
thd |
chirs: Does that mean that there are much more restrictive non-profits in NZ like those in the US? |
| 04:05 |
|
chris |
yep incorporated societies |
| 04:06 |
|
chris |
http://www.societies.govt.nz/c[…]porated-societies |
| 04:07 |
|
chris |
bascially you have to set up a bunch of rules ... and stick to them |
| 04:07 |
|
thd |
Jo: People would probably want a legal guarantee as a formality ensuring that assets would be used as directed by the Koha community. |
| 04:08 |
|
chris |
ok, gotta go catch my bus |
| 04:10 |
|
Jo |
sure. |
| 04:11 |
|
Jo |
The powers seem pretty wide but uit is heavily monitored and scritinised |
| 04:11 |
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| 04:12 |
|
Jo |
full team of auditors here every year auditing everything, not only money, by goals, plans, strategies etc and how and why we did everything. |
| 04:12 |
|
thd |
Jo: slef will want a really solid guarantee. |
| 04:12 |
|
Jo |
thats all by agreement :) |
| 04:13 |
|
thd |
Jo: It is not the accounting which would be at issue it is the use of any assets. |
| 04:13 |
|
Madar |
G.morning |
| 04:13 |
|
Jo |
sure - and once we agree on something we have to do it |
| 04:13 |
|
Jo |
its about transparency and accountability |
| 04:13 |
|
Jo |
and thats what the auditors check - not just money |
| 04:14 |
|
Jo |
ok - have to go - pilates class. |
| 04:14 |
|
Jo |
talk tomorrow :) |
| 04:14 |
|
thd |
Jo: have fun stretching |
| 04:14 |
|
Jo |
cya |
| 04:14 |
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| 04:14 |
|
thd |
good morning Madar |
| 04:23 |
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| 04:25 |
|
Madar |
i 've a question about Koha Error |
| 04:26 |
|
Madar |
when i finished add record |
| 04:28 |
|
Madar |
thi caNT SAVE IT |
| 04:28 |
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| 04:57 |
|
Madar |
this the Error - <thd> |
| 04:57 |
|
Madar |
Koha error The following fatal error has occurred: Tag "" is not a valid tag. at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Biblio.pm line 1542 Apache Server version: Apache/2.2.8 (Ubuntu) Server built: Jun 11 2009 18:39:41 Koha 3.00.00.107 Koha DB 3.0000107 MySQL mysql Ver 14.12 Distrib 5.0.51a, for debian-linux-gnu (i486) using readline 5.2 OS Linux web.com 2.6.24-23-generic #1 SMP Wed Apr 1 21:47:28 UTC 2009 i686 GNU/Linux Perl 5.008008 |
| 05:04 |
|
thd |
Madar: What error do you see displayed in the staff client record editor? |
| 05:06 |
|
thd |
Madar: Is it via using the record editor where you have this bug? |
| 05:32 |
|
Madar |
Koha error The following fatal error has occurred: Tag "" is not a valid tag. at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Biblio.pm line 1542 Apache Server version: |
| 05:43 |
|
Ropuch |
Morning, #koha |
| 05:50 |
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richard |
hi Ropuch |
| 06:12 |
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kf joined #koha |
| 06:17 |
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kf |
morning :) |
| 06:29 |
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| 07:00 |
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|
hdl_away is now known as hdl |
| 07:01 |
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chris |
hi all |
| 07:02 |
|
hdl |
hi chris |
| 07:10 |
|
hdl |
About translations, |
| 07:11 |
|
hdl |
sql and some js should get into po. |
| 07:11 |
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hdl |
do you have a suggestion for that ? |
| 07:13 |
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kf |
hi chris and hdl |
| 07:13 |
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| 07:15 |
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chris |
nope |
| 07:15 |
|
chris |
just have to write another copy of tmpl_process3.pl |
| 07:15 |
|
chris |
that understands .js |
| 07:15 |
|
chris |
and one for sql as well |
| 07:16 |
|
Madar |
<thd> Is it via using the record editor where you have this bug? |
| 07:16 |
|
Madar |
nope |
| 07:16 |
|
Ropuch |
I have a book added with book framework with itemtype book, yet i typed 1 in # Volume/Copy for serials (orderreceive.pl) |
| 07:17 |
|
Ropuch |
I did it by mistake, but then the book was shown line an serial in opac |
| 07:17 |
|
Madar |
it is after finished tha save record from Home › Cataloguing › Add MARC Record |
| 07:17 |
|
Ropuch |
Shoud it be that way? I was sure it depends on itemtype |
| 07:17 |
|
hdl |
chris tmpl_process3.pl :((((( |
| 07:17 |
|
Ropuch |
Hello chris, Madar |
| 07:18 |
|
Ropuch |
and hdl :) |
| 07:18 |
|
hdl |
i'd rather use gettext from bare command-line ;) |
| 07:18 |
|
chris |
:) |
| 07:18 |
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chris |
well make one that does that |
| 07:18 |
|
chris |
just a .sh script |
| 07:18 |
|
chris |
might be the win |
| 07:19 |
|
Madar |
hi Tag "" is not a valid tag. at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Biblio.pm line 1542 |
| 07:19 |
|
Madar |
Hi all, I have an error while while adding a book in the koha.i am getting the error like: Tag "" is not a valid tag. at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Biblio.pm line 2462 |
| 07:19 |
|
chris |
hdl: actually yeah a shell script that calls gettext would probably work fine ;) |
| 07:20 |
|
chris |
i might try that this weekend if i get some time |
| 07:35 |
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| 07:35 |
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CGI944 |
hi there anybody can help me |
| 07:37 |
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| 07:38 |
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CGI944 |
the error what am getting when am adding a book is "Tag "" is not a valid tag. at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Biblio.pm line 1542" |
| 07:38 |
|
CGI944 |
what can i do to solve this problem? |
| 07:39 |
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Ropuch |
Hello paul_p |
| 07:48 |
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| 07:55 |
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hdl |
CGI944: I think this comes out of a problem in your Biblio framework. |
| 07:55 |
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hdl |
have you checked that ? |
| 07:55 |
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hdl |
(in administration= |
| 07:59 |
|
Madar |
Biblio framework ??? how ?? |
| 08:04 |
|
hdl |
in Administration/ you have a link to check your framework |
| 08:19 |
|
Madar |
يهي ع ةثشى : MARC Bibliographic framework |
| 08:19 |
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Madar |
did u mean MARC Bibliographic framework |
| 08:36 |
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hdl |
yes |
| 09:04 |
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|
Topic for #koha is now General IRC Meeting took place 7 October 2009, 1000 UTC (date -d @1254909600), here in #koha - http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?[…]etingnotes09oct07 |
| 09:22 |
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| 09:33 |
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ricardo |
Good morning paul_p ! |
| 09:37 |
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Madar |
sry but am still i dnt know what i have 2 do in MARC Bibliographic framework ??? |
| 09:50 |
|
hdl |
Madar : |
| 09:51 |
|
hdl |
have you checked you frameworks ? |
| 09:52 |
|
hdl |
cgi-bin/koha/admin/checkmarc.pl |
| 09:52 |
|
hdl |
and look at the results |
| 09:56 |
|
Ropuch |
I've just send my chief link to prototype of our opac, it would be his first contact with live Koha |
| 09:57 |
|
Ropuch |
I hoping for the best as i want him to share some bandwitch and server space for polsih Koha site ;> |
| 09:57 |
|
Ropuch |
s/polsich/polisch |
| 10:09 |
|
magnusenger |
Having some value_builder problems... Trying to create a normarc_field_008.pl, but when I select it for the 008 field, it doesn't "stick". Neither does marc21_field_008.pl. Then I set it to normarc_field_008.pl "by hand" in MySQL, but when I click on "..." next to 008, up pops marc21_008_field.pl. Any ideas? |
| 10:11 |
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hdl |
have you reloaded your page ? |
| 10:15 |
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magnusenger |
hdl: yes, and the marc_subfield_structure.value_builder wasn't set to enything before I set it to normarc_field_008.pl |
| 10:15 |
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hdl |
which page ? addbiblio.pl ? |
| 10:17 |
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magnusenger |
hdl: yes |
| 10:21 |
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magnusenger |
sorry, found it, There's some JavaScript in *_field_008.pl which tells addbiblio.pl which value_builder to use. |
| 10:22 |
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magnusenger |
So my normarc_field_008.pl was telling addbiblio.pl to open marc21_field_008.pl... |
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| 11:01 |
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slef |
Afternoon all. Why is the default search order often surname,firstname instead of cardnumber? |
| 11:09 |
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| 11:29 |
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hdl |
hi |
| 11:30 |
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gmcharlt |
slef: not sure why - do you have enough overlap between patron card numbers and names that it makes a difference? |
| 11:32 |
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hdl |
slef: in little libraries, name and surnames are more often searched on |
| 11:32 |
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| 11:38 |
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Madar |
<hdl> yesss i was checked |
| 11:39 |
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Madar |
i see the results |
| 11:40 |
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Madar |
did u mean i must edit some of it ? and how ? |
| 11:41 |
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| 11:44 |
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slef |
gmcharlt: no. I'm having poor performance on some searches and have traced it back to sorting by names being a filesort, while sorting by cardnumber has an index. |
| 11:44 |
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slef |
hdl: Not the search itself, but the order. |
| 11:45 |
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gmcharlt |
slef: do we need to just add indexes on the surname and firstname columns, then? |
| 11:46 |
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slef |
gmcharlt: can't index text fields on a MyISAM table. |
| 11:46 |
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slef |
(IIRC) |
| 11:47 |
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gmcharlt |
what about an InnoDB table? ;) |
| 11:47 |
|
slef |
I think that can do fulltext indexing, yes, but why are we using MyISAM? |
| 11:47 |
|
gmcharlt |
the point I'm trying to make is that we're not using MyISAM |
| 11:47 |
|
slef |
ok, I'll recheck my notes |
| 11:48 |
|
gmcharlt |
but if InnoDB doesn't do indexes on text columns either, we could change the name columns to varchar |
| 11:49 |
|
slef |
"FULLTEXT indexes are supported only for MyISAM tables" |
| 11:49 |
|
slef |
ok, I'm backwards |
| 11:49 |
|
slef |
changing them to varchar() would also allow indexing |
| 11:49 |
|
slef |
but why are they mediumtext and text? |
| 11:50 |
|
|
davi joined #koha |
| 11:50 |
|
gmcharlt |
probably for the same reason many, many columns are mediumtext and text - it was easier at the time to go with a data type that didn't require you to guess a maximum length |
| 11:53 |
|
|
chris_n2 is now known as chris_n |
| 11:53 |
|
slef |
so are users going to be bitten if we introduce a maximum length? |
| 11:53 |
|
chris_n |
g'morning |
| 11:53 |
|
chris_n |
slef: see my comment on bug 3583 |
| 11:53 |
|
munin` |
Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/b[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3583 blocker, P5, ---, cnighswonger foundations.edu, ASSIGNED, Patron Card Labels should print |
| 11:53 |
|
slef |
chris_n: hi. No, I haven't yet. |
| 11:54 |
|
chris_n |
slef: this week has been a schedule killer so it will be sometime next week before I get back on the pcard stuff |
| 11:55 |
|
slef |
chris_n: ok. Thanks for the comment. I had forgotten that there was a batch-former option on the marc import. |
| 11:56 |
|
chris_n |
slef: there are a number of "bells and whistles" enhancements that can be added based on the new label and pcard code |
| 11:57 |
|
chris_n |
the one you suggest is a good idea and shouldn't take much time |
| 11:57 |
|
slef |
chris_n: probably. I should go play with it more, but I'm trying to catch up with user requests just now, so am trying to make sure we're feeding to bugs.koha.org where appropriate. |
| 11:57 |
|
slef |
lunchtime here. bbi30ish |
| 11:59 |
|
chris_n |
gmcharlt: that win32 port of Koha is looking like it may be doable in the next 12 months or so |
| 11:59 |
|
|
gmcharlt left #koha |
| 12:00 |
|
* chris_n |
did not realize the stimulating effect he has on some people ;-) |
| 12:01 |
|
|
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| 12:02 |
|
jwagner |
chris_n, it's far too early in the morning for stimulation.... |
| 12:02 |
|
chris_n |
@later tell gmcharlt that win32 port of Koha is looking like it may be doable in the next 12 months or so |
| 12:02 |
|
munin` |
chris_n: The operation succeeded. |
| 12:03 |
|
chris_n |
jwagner: probably a heavy dose of coffee would help :-) |
| 12:04 |
|
|
paul_p joined #koha |
| 12:07 |
|
jwagner |
But I don't drink coffee :-( However, my tea should be brewed by now. Let me go retrieve it.... |
| 12:08 |
|
chris_n |
jwagner: tea should do just as well.... I like either... and the more variety the better |
| 12:12 |
|
jwagner |
A friend of mine owns a button, which comes in very handy at groggy moments. It reads Tea. Earl Grey. Hot. |
| 12:13 |
|
jwagner |
Can't get much more succinct than that. |
| 12:23 |
|
chris_n |
lol... Earl Grey is probably at the top of my list |
| 12:29 |
|
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| 12:35 |
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davi left #koha |
| 12:36 |
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| 12:36 |
|
gmcharlt |
chris_n: cool (re win32 port) - tell me more |
| 12:38 |
|
chris_n |
gmcharlt: as you can see here https://rt.cpan.org/Public/Bug[…]lay.html?id=48576 it is hoped that XML::LibXML will be part of the next Strawberry release |
| 12:39 |
|
chris_n |
I was able to get it installed under the beta_2 release of strawberry |
| 12:40 |
|
chris_n |
I'm currently working to get the rest of the perl deps installed under strawberry beta to see if Koha will run |
| 12:40 |
|
gmcharlt |
chris_n++ |
| 12:40 |
|
chris_n |
of course this is a very back-burner project |
| 12:40 |
|
chris_n |
gmcharlt: I assume this might be of interest to the EG project as well? |
| 12:45 |
|
magnusenger |
i'm almost certain i have seen a value_builder-script where at first you see only one or two fields, then when you make a choice the other, relevant fields appear, but i can't seem to find it now... sound familiar to anyone? |
| 12:46 |
|
chris_n |
gmcharlt: the chances of XML::LibXSLT being in the the October release of Strawberry have just been greatly boosted by the release of XML::LibXSLT 1.70 yesterday.... this is very nice |
| 12:48 |
|
gmcharlt |
chris_n: probably would be - I don't know if anybody's pursued porting EG server to Windows, but XML::LibXML and XML::LibXSLT would be prereqs, sure |
| 12:52 |
|
chris_n |
bbl |
| 13:09 |
|
thd |
gmcharlt: do you see the problem which I have identified for the relicensing ballot? |
| 13:09 |
|
slef |
thd: what problem? |
| 13:10 |
|
thd |
slef: There is no proper question on the ballot |
| 13:10 |
|
|
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| 13:10 |
|
thd |
See my message to the koha list |
| 13:10 |
|
slef |
thd: even after the rewording I mentioned in the meeting? |
| 13:10 |
|
|
pianohacker joined #koha |
| 13:10 |
|
slef |
ok, looking at koha list |
| 13:13 |
|
owen |
Hi pianohacker, you're in early |
| 13:13 |
|
pianohacker |
good morning |
| 13:13 |
|
pianohacker |
yup, thought I'd try getting up before 10:00 once this week |
| 13:14 |
|
* owen |
can't imagine why |
| 13:17 |
|
pianohacker |
bbl |
| 13:17 |
|
|
pianohacker left #koha |
| 13:18 |
|
owen |
Hmmm.... Did I get him thinking about going back to bed? |
| 13:20 |
|
thd |
slef: whatever the question should be that people are asked to ascent to should appear at the top of the ballot page for people to agree or not. |
| 13:24 |
|
thd |
slef: the way in which GPL is mentioned could mean GPL 1 which no one would really understand but in a ballot about relicensing more precision should be given than in more casual use. |
| 13:24 |
|
slef |
thd: I am very cross with you. |
| 13:24 |
|
thd |
why |
| 13:24 |
|
thd |
? |
| 13:25 |
|
gmcharlt |
thd: licensing of the wiki and the Koha software itself are different matters |
| 13:25 |
|
slef |
This was covered in the meeting. You were here. |
| 13:26 |
|
thd |
gmcharlt: yes, I understand that they are different. |
| 13:26 |
|
thd |
I also understood that there was an attempt to make them compatible |
| 13:26 |
|
thd |
maybe I missed something at some point during the meeting |
| 13:27 |
|
thd |
All I am asking is that the ballot question be precise. |
| 13:28 |
|
thd |
I know that my message is long but it has a simple conclusion that the ballot question simply needs wording about how the relicensing is to be invoked. |
| 13:28 |
|
slef |
Do you want the relicensing ballot postponed? |
| 13:28 |
|
thd |
No |
| 13:28 |
|
thd |
I did not want to imply that |
| 13:29 |
|
gmcharlt |
thd: thanks for saying that - otherwise, frankly I would consider your email to be a purely dilatory move |
| 13:29 |
|
kf |
owen: thx for solving 3676 :) |
| 13:29 |
|
gmcharlt |
can we agree that the question will specify a GPL version, e.g., GPL v2 or later? |
| 13:30 |
|
thd |
gmcharlt: I was really only trying to be helpful with very little time because I had thought the issue deferred until the meeting. |
| 13:30 |
|
thd |
I had asked chris about it last week and he suggested that the issue had been deferred |
| 13:30 |
|
thd |
Of course I asked the wrong person. |
| 13:31 |
|
thd |
Ignore my call for lawyers to look at the issue. They are unlikely to give an answer really helpful to the community and I will write another message to say so. |
| 13:33 |
|
thd |
gmcharlt: Yes if the question is relicense under GPL 2 or later and that appears at the top of the ballot page then I think that the question has been properly asked. |
| 13:35 |
|
thd |
gmcharlt slef: I would be doubtful of enough response in the small ballot window if an email message is not sent to each of the people on the list of names as well. |
| 13:36 |
|
gmcharlt |
thd: which, oddly enough, is why slef and I doing exactly that during the meeting yesterday |
| 13:36 |
|
|
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| 13:36 |
|
gmcharlt |
please pay more attention before assuming that we didn't take that into account |
| 13:38 |
|
thd |
gmcharlt: I am sorry but I did loose attention at a certain point and was surprised that the issue was being reintroduced at this particular moment. |
| 13:38 |
|
thd |
I am all for it if that is not clear |
| 13:38 |
|
thd |
I just want to be certain that it is done well. |
| 13:38 |
|
slef |
This has been bumped in the last few general meetings. It shouldn't be a surprise. |
| 13:39 |
|
thd |
I may have missed something from the context earlier. |
| 13:40 |
|
thd |
I kept looking at the wiki relicensing page and seeing vote to be held in May. |
| 13:45 |
|
slef |
it probably should have been updated sooner and linked from meetings pages when it was bumped, but http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?[…]ch&id=relicensing does show it. |
| 13:50 |
|
thd |
gmcharlt slef: looking at kohatoday I missed nothing but the issue was rushed by so quickly I had no idea what was happening.. |
| 13:50 |
|
slef |
thd: what is kohatoday? |
| 13:50 |
|
thd |
The current IRC logs |
| 13:50 |
|
thd |
Is logbot working again? |
| 13:51 |
|
slef |
NAFAIK |
| 13:51 |
|
|
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| 13:51 |
|
thd |
http://stats.workbuffer.org/irclog/koha/ |
| 13:52 |
|
thd |
I am sorry that I did not have time in May to properly address the issue and am happy for any reasonable resolution of it. |
| 13:53 |
|
thd |
I realise that my long message may cause confusion so I will fix that now. |
| 13:54 |
|
thd |
slef: If you know or know where to check I am quite curious about what advise the Debian project had from lawyers about using the GPL as a documentation license. |
| 13:54 |
|
slef |
Not OTTOMH |
| 13:54 |
|
slef |
but we've been using it for a decade or so |
| 13:55 |
|
slef |
and we're not broken yet |
| 13:55 |
|
slef |
the move to the GPL was inspired by problems with the OPL IIRC but it's before my time |
| 13:55 |
|
thd |
I know there is much that goes by because people basically want it to work |
| 13:55 |
|
slef |
I doubt it changed without a few detailed discussions |
| 13:56 |
|
slef |
http://lists.debian.org/search.html may know |
| 13:56 |
|
thd |
I just remember it being a huge controversy recently in the context of GFDL. |
| 13:57 |
|
slef |
it predates FDL. FSF asked debian contributor opinions on FDL, then seemed to ignore nearly all of them. |
| 13:57 |
|
thd |
I do consider GFDL to be a big problem and I say so in my message to the list that GPL is the only real option |
| 13:58 |
|
slef |
getting debian contributors to do work and then essentially rejecting it is a pretty easy way to cause a huge controversy |
| 13:58 |
|
thd |
Bradley Kuhn said that developers were consulted quite poorly about GFDL |
| 13:58 |
|
slef |
yeah, I've read similar messages from him |
| 13:59 |
|
thd |
Consulting developers a little and publishers much more is what I think that he meant. |
| 14:01 |
|
thd |
slef: If the current comment process existed which SFLC helped design I think that the issue would have been addressed from the beginning. |
| 14:01 |
|
slef |
By the current comment process, do you mean stet? |
| 14:02 |
|
thd |
Well it is not perfect but yes |
| 14:02 |
|
thd |
It is much better than the absence of it. |
| 14:02 |
|
slef |
If so, it's a buggy mess and there are tons of unanswered comments in it. |
| 14:02 |
|
thd |
Mostly unanswered comments yes. |
| 14:03 |
|
slef |
The problem is with the process QA and the accountability, not the technicalities. |
| 14:03 |
|
|
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| 14:03 |
|
thd |
However, every comment is read at SFLC. |
| 14:03 |
|
thd |
Eben Moglen personally reads each comment. |
| 14:04 |
|
thd |
as do others. |
| 14:04 |
|
thd |
Unfortunately they do not have enough people to respond to everyone. |
| 14:06 |
|
thd |
I managed to help influence the wording of GPL 3 so I know that it works. The wording change took my statement almost exactly when I was not attempting to specify wording. |
| 14:08 |
|
thd |
slef: I am very sorry for missing the bumping. Bumping is easy to miss. I will try to fix any confusion which I may have caused with my message now. |
| 14:09 |
|
thd |
I did at least see everything in yesterdays meeting |
| 14:09 |
|
thd |
ing |
| 14:09 |
|
thd |
ing |
| 14:09 |
|
thd |
ing |
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thd |
ing |
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thd |
ing |
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thd |
ing |
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thd |
ing |
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thd |
ing |
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thd |
ing |
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thd |
ing |
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thd |
ing |
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thd |
ing |
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thd |
ing |
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thd |
ing |
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thd |
ing |
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thd |
ing |
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thd |
ing |
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thd |
ing |
| 14:09 |
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thd |
ing |
| 14:09 |
|
thd |
ing |
| 14:09 |
|
pianohacker |
? |
| 14:09 |
|
thd |
ing |
| 14:10 |
|
thd |
oops |
| 14:11 |
|
* thd |
have been having keyboard trouble for months |
| 14:11 |
|
|
Nate joined #koha |
| 14:11 |
|
thd |
I have read something that suggests it may be a kernel bug. |
| 14:12 |
|
thd |
Replacing the keyboard does no good |
| 14:13 |
|
wizzyrea |
is it wireless? |
| 14:13 |
|
wizzyrea |
because my wireless one does similar stupid things sometimes |
| 14:14 |
|
wizzyrea |
(and I use a Mac) |
| 14:14 |
|
thd |
no, I never want a wireless keyboard. |
| 14:15 |
|
thd |
It is not USB which could now be part of the problem in some recent Linux kernels |
| 14:19 |
|
thd |
slef: The license choice in the Wiki is a DokuWiki default. The previous wiki had no license statement. I doubt anyone ever decided anything in examining DokWiki configuration. |
| 14:23 |
|
slef |
on customer call |
| 14:33 |
|
slef |
back |
| 14:34 |
|
slef |
thd: is "Yes, I am in favor of changing the wiki page license to the GPLv2+ terms used by the main Koha download" clear enough? |
| 14:35 |
|
thd |
I prefer "or later version" to "+" for clarity. |
| 14:35 |
|
thd |
I know what you mean but others may find it too subtle. |
| 14:35 |
|
slef |
just "or later" and expand the "v" to "version"? |
| 14:36 |
|
owen |
gmcharlt around? |
| 14:36 |
|
gmcharlt |
owen: yes |
| 14:37 |
|
owen |
Is there a patch floating around for sounds-on-checkout? |
| 14:37 |
|
thd |
slf: yes |
| 14:37 |
|
gmcharlt |
there's something in Michael Hafen's tree, I think |
| 14:37 |
|
thd |
slef: yes, the way you last put it seems fine |
| 14:37 |
|
gmcharlt |
as I recall, main issue is making sure that sounds are not tied to requiring Flash, but it's been a while |
| 14:39 |
|
slef |
http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=relicensing updated |
| 14:41 |
|
thd |
slef: I would use the word 'software' instead of "download" for clarity but there is no point of confusion anymore. |
| 14:41 |
|
* owen |
sees Flash-based audio stuff in mhafen's tree |
| 14:42 |
|
* owen |
wonders if HTML5 has improved our options |
| 14:42 |
|
|
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| 14:43 |
|
gmcharlt |
owen: I believe so, in theory |
| 14:47 |
|
tomascohen |
hi everyone, just wanted to say I'm happy i managed to bypass the firewall to be with you |
| 14:47 |
|
tomascohen |
:-D |
| 14:48 |
|
owen |
Hi tomascohen |
| 14:48 |
|
hdl |
hi tomascohen |
| 14:54 |
|
|
tomascohen left #koha |
| 14:55 |
|
|
tomascohen joined #koha |
| 14:58 |
|
kf |
hi tomascohen |
| 14:59 |
|
davi |
|
| 15:03 |
|
* owen |
is looking for some nice open-source-licensed beeps |
| 15:06 |
|
ricardo |
@quote add <tomascohen> hi everyone, just wanted to say I'm happy i managed to bypass the firewall to be with you *** tomascohen quit (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 15:06 |
|
munin` |
ricardo: The operation succeeded. Quote #40 added. |
| 15:06 |
|
ricardo |
Sorry, couldn't resist ;-) |
| 15:07 |
|
tomascohen |
ricardo++ |
| 15:07 |
|
ricardo |
Hi tomascohen :) |
| 15:08 |
|
slef |
thd: reply emailed to list |
| 15:09 |
|
thd |
slef: I was about to send a correcting message |
| 15:10 |
|
* jdavidb |
pinches his daughter, and records the eeps and squeaks she makes, sticks a CC license on 'em, and sends them to owen. |
| 15:10 |
|
owen |
jdavidb: Can she make a noise that expresses the idea "Your checkout has failed?" |
| 15:11 |
|
jdavidb |
I bet she could, owen. Teens are good at expressing their opinion of adults' failure. |
| 15:11 |
|
owen |
it would be funny if you could load different personalities for your audio feedback |
| 15:12 |
|
* owen |
is really just looking for a couple of good beeps |
| 15:12 |
|
jdavidb |
Like my GPS, which speaks NZ English, since the USian voices in it are *boring.* |
| 15:12 |
|
hdl |
a sound like ouch ;) |
| 15:13 |
|
pianohacker |
owen: I used the ubuntu sound set for a similar project |
| 15:14 |
|
owen |
pianohacker: I was just thinking there must be such a thing |
| 15:14 |
|
pianohacker |
it was internal, so I didn't check the license, but I'd imagine they're open source |
| 15:15 |
|
pianohacker |
I'd go for a major and minor arpeggio chord, but that may not be the personality you have in mind |
| 15:18 |
|
owen |
pianohacker: Any idea if there is a way to browse those sounds on the web? |
| 15:20 |
|
pianohacker |
owen: looking through packages.ubuntu.com right now |
| 15:20 |
|
pianohacker |
there's this, looking for normal one http://packages.ubuntu.com/kar[…]theme-freedesktop |
| 15:21 |
|
pianohacker |
http://packages.ubuntu.com/karmic/ubuntu-sounds |
| 15:21 |
|
pianohacker |
both have .tar.gz's that you can look through |
| 15:22 |
|
owen |
Thanks |
| 15:23 |
|
owen |
FWIW, Firefox 3.5 and Safari 4 both autoplay wav files using the HTML5 <audio> tag |
| 15:26 |
|
* owen |
would feel a certain satisfaction telling people they'd need to ditch Internet Explorer if they wanted audio feedback in Koha |
| 15:27 |
|
pianohacker |
bug 42 - koha only works on standards-compliant browsers |
| 15:27 |
|
munin` |
Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/b[…]how_bug.cgi?id=42 normal, P2, ---, tonnesencmsd.bc.ca, RESOLVED FIXED, installer.pl could prompt user to send testing results in |
| 15:27 |
|
pianohacker |
hah, thanks, munin |
| 15:28 |
|
|
tomascohen left #koha |
| 15:28 |
|
* jdavidb |
enjoys telling people they need to ditch IE for any reason whatever. |
| 15:29 |
|
owen |
"IE causes scurvy!" |
| 15:31 |
|
Ropuch |
;> |
| 15:31 |
|
Ropuch |
Shame on you to speak in public such obscene word like "IE"! |
| 15:32 |
|
pianohacker |
owen: I was able to get results (if not consistent ones) using embed, no autoplay, and the exposed js methods of the embed tag |
| 15:32 |
|
* owen |
likes the potential simplicity of using <audio src="beep.mp3" autoplay="true"> |
| 15:33 |
|
pianohacker |
that is nice. if you're using ajax, no autoplay allows load-once and play-many |
| 15:33 |
|
pianohacker |
not an issue with circulation, though |
| 15:33 |
|
* pianohacker |
pokes gmcharlt |
| 15:39 |
|
|
Kivutar left #koha |
| 15:41 |
|
gmcharlt |
pianohacker: good enough - somebody can add IE support later if they want (though preferably *not* be having Koha need to start check user agent strings, which hasn't been necessary thus far) |
| 15:42 |
|
pianohacker |
gmcharlt: most likely a note on the off |
| 15:42 |
|
pianohacker |
-by-default syspref that sound alerts don't work in ie would be enough |
| 15:43 |
|
gmcharlt |
sadly, there are enough users stuck with IE for the staff interface that *somebody* will have to deal with it at some point |
| 15:43 |
|
pianohacker |
right |
| 15:44 |
|
pianohacker |
though a lot of the stuck on ie people have ie 6 |
| 15:44 |
|
pianohacker |
which as far as I know, won't even be seen in the same room as koha's staff interface |
| 15:45 |
|
gmcharlt |
actually, I think some people are (painfully) actively using IE6 with the Koha staff interface |
| 15:45 |
|
pianohacker |
the modern martyrs of the library world |
| 15:46 |
|
gmcharlt |
s/library world/world of anybody stuck with a hidebound or overly paranoid IT department/ |
| 15:46 |
|
pianohacker |
lots of those to go around |
| 15:47 |
|
pianohacker |
daily wtf needs a permanent entry on _that_ particular policy |
| 15:47 |
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| 15:48 |
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owen_ |
pianohacker: Actually aside from some visual quirks IE6 manages with the staff client quite well in my limited experience. |
| 15:49 |
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pianohacker |
for which you are partly to blame :) |
| 15:53 |
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owen_ |
I have wondered if we should be including support for Google's Chrome Frame |
| 15:54 |
|
pianohacker |
I myself am not too familiar with it, but have you taken a look at the mozilla community's response to it? |
| 15:54 |
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pianohacker |
saw something about it on webmonkey not too long ago |
| 15:55 |
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owen_ |
pianohacker: Only a cursory look |
| 15:55 |
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| 15:55 |
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owen_ |
I did hear one comment that Mozilla folks would be opposed to it because it give IE users another reason not to switch |
| 15:56 |
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| 15:56 |
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| 15:56 |
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* pianohacker |
wonders if same it paranoia that has locked users into ie would allow something like chrome-frame in |
| 15:56 |
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pianohacker |
*if the same |
| 15:56 |
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owen |
That's my question too. |
| 15:57 |
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| 15:58 |
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owen |
It's also worth noting that Chrome Frame doesn't help those who are stuck with IE6 because they're stuck on Win98 or Win2K: no Chrome support in those OSes |
| 15:59 |
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pianohacker |
right |
| 15:59 |
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* owen |
wonders if it's IE6 or Chrome Frame crashing at the moment |
| 15:59 |
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pianohacker |
seriously? that's irony in motion right there |
| 16:03 |
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jwagner |
Fines question for folks -- is there a list somewhere of what the various accountype codes in the accountlines table mean? Like F, FU, A, etc.? I found this page on the wiki, but it only lists the hardcoded codes, not what they mean: http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?[…]ment:hard_coded&s[]=accounttype |
| 16:05 |
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pianohacker |
jwagner: not really, unfortunately. best way is to go to those places in the code that create the fines |
| 16:05 |
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jwagner |
Darn. Why isn't there ever an EASY answer with Koha? |
| 16:05 |
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pianohacker |
sorry |
| 16:06 |
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pianohacker |
fines especially :) |
| 16:07 |
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jwagner |
*grumble* Do I feel like stalking code right now, or going to lunch instead? Somehow, I think lunch may win that argument..... |
| 16:07 |
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pianohacker |
bah, who needs food when you have code |
| 16:12 |
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kf |
for f and fu nicole wrote something on koha.org |
| 16:13 |
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kf |
I think f is the first fine and fu accrued or something like that |
| 16:13 |
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kf |
http://koha.org/documentation/[…]searchterm=f%20fu |
| 16:14 |
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| 16:16 |
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jwagner |
kf, thanks. I'll track it down after I get done resolving the current crisis/panic attack. Sigh. |
| 16:18 |
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* kf |
hands jwagner a cup of earl grey tea |
| 16:25 |
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jwagner |
Nope, I've already had my two cups for the day. But thanks :-) |
| 16:25 |
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owen |
jwagner: What do you do after you've used up your allotted 2? Nap? |
| 16:27 |
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jwagner |
owen, depends on if I'm working from home :-) |
| 16:27 |
|
* owen |
usually needs the caffeine infusion after lunch rather than in the morning |
| 16:29 |
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jwagner |
Well, I work an early schedule -- usually in the office by 7:30 which means getting up at a perfectly horrible time. Just because I've made it into the office does NOT mean I'm awake! You've heard of sleepdriving? |
| 16:29 |
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owen |
So, labels_recon and biblibre-sopac have been integrated into HEAD, but we're still waiting on sysprefs_editor and biblibre's acquisitions stuff? |
| 16:31 |
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pianohacker |
owen: yes on sysprefs |
| 16:31 |
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pianohacker |
finally working on koha again after a school crunch |
| 16:31 |
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pianohacker |
to that will happen |
| 16:31 |
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pianohacker |
*so |
| 16:33 |
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| 16:34 |
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jwagner |
owen, re your message to the list yesterday about OPAC detail page sorting by itemtype, changing to branch -- couple of questions. One is are you doing a patch, and the other is would it also fix the problem in the staff interface? |
| 16:34 |
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owen |
jwagner: I'd be happy to work on a patch, but so far the conversation is between only you and me! I'd love to hear someone else put in their vote |
| 16:35 |
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jwagner |
You mean I can't vote 57 times? |
| 16:35 |
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owen |
I hadn't planned on adding holdings table sorting to the staff client for the reason I stated yesterday: I'm concerned about performance for libraries with lots of items |
| 16:36 |
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owen |
jwagner: You'll have to at least use different voices. How's your Cookie Monster? |
| 16:36 |
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jwagner |
Cooooooookkkkkkkkkeeeeeeeee |
| 16:36 |
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kf |
I think sorting by serial enum could be interesting too |
| 16:37 |
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jwagner |
I'm trying to check, but I looked it up a week or two ago, and I think it already does sort by serial enum. Question of whether we could add branchcode in there too, I guess. |
| 16:38 |
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kf |
perhaps im just confused :) are we talking about default sorting or possible to sort? |
| 16:38 |
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owen |
default sorting |
| 16:39 |
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jwagner |
Sorry, not on serial enum. If I have the right place, it's accessiondate -- ORDER BY items.dateaccessioned |
| 16:39 |
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kf |
ok, just checked - its not sorted by serial enum |
| 16:39 |
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kf |
found a title where all other columns are the same |
| 16:44 |
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jwagner is now known as jwagner_lunch |
| 16:44 |
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kf |
and I will leave work now (to test some things on my laptop at home... *sigh*) bbl, bye #koha |
| 16:44 |
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| 16:51 |
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| 16:52 |
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owen |
If I want to test biblibre-integration, how should I update my database? |
| 16:55 |
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owen |
"then run through the database update (in the case of labels_recon) or run the atomic update scripts (in case of biblibre-integration)" |
| 16:55 |
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owen |
atomic update scripts? |
| 16:57 |
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| 17:01 |
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| 17:02 |
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thd |
slef: I have appended my response to you to my previously written correction for confusion. |
| 17:03 |
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| 17:04 |
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thd |
slef: I agree with you on every significant point except one which is unimportant, given the lack of alternatives. |
| 17:07 |
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| 17:11 |
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thd |
gmcharlt: are you there for a moment? |
| 17:11 |
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| 17:12 |
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| 17:12 |
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gmcharlt |
thd: what's up? |
| 17:13 |
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| 17:13 |
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thd |
gmcharlt: I hope that my new message has corrected any confusion caused by my previous message. |
| 17:14 |
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thd |
gmcharlt: I am curious about why the election window is so small. |
| 17:16 |
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gmcharlt |
not sure, slef picked it, but there's no sure formula for picking a length |
| 17:16 |
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thd |
gmcharlt: Does 9-11 October not risk having low turnout and defeating the effort. |
| 17:16 |
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gmcharlt |
regardless, if it turns out we get insufficient turnout, we can hold another vote or extend the voting period |
| 17:16 |
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thd |
I trust in slef's good judgement. |
| 17:17 |
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gmcharlt |
since the electorate is fixed, there's not a question of any risk of electorate padding |
| 17:17 |
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thd |
gmcharlt: Yes we can always extend the vote without being unfair. |
| 17:17 |
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| 17:17 |
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thd |
Thanks gmcharlt |
| 17:18 |
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CGI333 |
hi i need to ask something about audit trails in koha |
| 17:18 |
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gmcharlt |
CGI333: go for it |
| 17:18 |
|
CGI333 |
Audit trail |
| 17:18 |
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CGI333 |
The system should contain an audit trail that records the movement of files throughout the departments. It should allow the administrator to view who processed a specific file on a specific date. This audit trail should record the details of the movement (action, person, file reference code) and the operator details (username, date, time). |
| 17:18 |
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CGI333 |
is this supported in KOHA |
| 17:21 |
|
CGI333 |
? |
| 17:23 |
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gmcharlt |
CGI333: by file you mean digital resource file (image, movie, sound recording, etc?) |
| 17:23 |
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rhcl_busy |
Maybe I'm out of the loop, but what do you mean by "movement of files thoughout the departments", in regards to an ILS? |
| 17:23 |
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CGI333 |
by files I ment books |
| 17:23 |
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thd |
CG1333: Or do you mean printed files |
| 17:24 |
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thd |
CG1333: there is a circulation module. |
| 17:24 |
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CGI333 |
sorry but i took this from a clients request and they call books as files |
| 17:24 |
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CGI333 |
just books |
| 17:25 |
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gmcharlt |
Koha's circ system woudl provide a sufficient audit trail of circulation, IMO, but it sounds like from your wording that they may be talking about auditing internal processing of books |
| 17:26 |
|
CGI333 |
basically they want sort of a report that shows the history of a book between a certain date (say last year) |
| 17:26 |
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CGI333 |
who loaned it, when did he loan it, etc |
| 17:28 |
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thd |
CG1333: You should be able to query for the circulation history by an identifier for the book. |
| 17:29 |
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thd |
CG1333: You may have to write a special SQL query or Perl script for that but it should not be difficult. |
| 17:29 |
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CGI333 |
oh ok that was what i was looking to confirm |
| 17:30 |
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CGI333 |
i knew it could but i wanted to confirm if it was implemented or it had to be done via a script |
| 17:30 |
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CGI333 |
thanks for your help |
| 17:31 |
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thd |
CG1333: It is probably not implemented in quite the way you ask. |
| 17:31 |
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thd |
CG1333: You have to be certain not to set the option for erasing the history. |
| 17:31 |
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| 17:35 |
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| 17:44 |
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chris |
morning |
| 17:44 |
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chris |
owen++ |
| 17:47 |
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| 17:48 |
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ricardo |
Morning chris |
| 17:50 |
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ricardo |
chris: I'll probably have a new version of translation in the next few days... I have to solve an (apparent) merge conflict in Subversion. Let's see how that works |
| 17:50 |
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ricardo |
(Portuguese translation, I mean) |
| 17:52 |
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chris |
cool |
| 17:56 |
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hdl |
pianohacker: around ? |
| 17:56 |
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ricardo |
chris / hdl : Could you tell me in |
| 17:56 |
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brendan |
morning chris, ricardo hdl et. al |
| 17:56 |
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hdl |
hi all |
| 17:57 |
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hdl |
yes i can : "in" |
| 17:57 |
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hdl |
(silly joke) |
| 17:57 |
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ricardo |
hdl: LOL... Funny. I'm having problems rearranging the "Mibbit" and "git.koha.org" in Firefox :) (too many tabs...) |
| 17:58 |
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ricardo |
OK. Done... |
| 17:58 |
|
ricardo |
Take 2 |
| 17:58 |
|
ricardo |
chris / hdl : Could you tell me in |
| 17:58 |
|
ricardo |
http://git.koha.org/cgi-bin/gi[…]5d35e6e46bda9a22a |
| 17:59 |
|
ricardo |
... if lines 1842 to 1849 are translatable? Just by looking at them, I'm suspecting they're NOT (but I might be wrong) |
| 18:00 |
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hdl |
ricardo : you should not translate that. |
| 18:00 |
|
hdl |
those are codes ;) |
| 18:01 |
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hdl |
pianohacker: i'll test your sys pref branch. |
| 18:01 |
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ricardo |
hdl: Right... That's what I thought. So, should I just leave the msgstr "blank", meaning with: msgstr "" ? |
| 18:02 |
|
hdl |
yes |
| 18:02 |
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hdl |
pianohacker: How have you solved translation context ? |
| 18:02 |
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ricardo |
hdl: OK. In that case, it assumes the original "words" (from "msgid"), right? |
| 18:03 |
|
hdl |
yes |
| 18:03 |
|
hdl |
or you can just copy paste the string |
| 18:03 |
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ricardo |
hdl: OK. Thanks |
| 18:04 |
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owen-away is now known as owen |
| 18:04 |
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owen |
hdl: can you tell me what I need to do to update my database to test biblibre_integration? |
| 18:05 |
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hdl |
owen : updatedatabase.pl + all the "atomicupdate" scripts in installer/data/mysql/atomicupdate |
| 18:05 |
|
pianohacker |
hdl: I have not yet. just getting back to work on that |
| 18:06 |
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owen |
hdl: if I am not prompted to update the database via the installer, does that mean all I need are the atomicupdate scripts? |
| 18:06 |
|
hdl |
I think so. |
| 18:07 |
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hdl |
db version should be 115 |
| 18:28 |
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| 18:36 |
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chris |
gah, 2 sick kids, 'working' from home today |
| 18:37 |
|
wizzyrea |
booo |
| 18:37 |
|
gmcharlt |
:( |
| 18:38 |
|
wizzyrea |
are yours like mine, when they get sick all they want to do is lay on you |
| 18:38 |
|
wizzyrea |
which can actually work out, if you have a laptop :P |
| 18:39 |
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gmcharlt |
depends if the kids are like my cats |
| 18:40 |
|
gmcharlt |
if they are, better hope they're transparent so that you can see the screen ;) |
| 18:40 |
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chris |
hehe |
| 18:40 |
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chris |
yeah trying to get as close as possible |
| 18:41 |
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| 18:43 |
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pianohacker |
enjoy it now, we become pains in the butt when we reach teenagerhood |
| 18:43 |
|
pianohacker |
chris: sorry to hear they're sick, tho |
| 18:44 |
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cait_laptop |
good evening |
| 18:44 |
|
ricardo |
chris: echoing pianohacker, I hope your kids get well really soon |
| 18:44 |
|
ricardo |
Going home now. See you later! |
| 18:44 |
|
pianohacker |
see ya |
| 18:45 |
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| 18:49 |
|
owen |
Anyone know of an example of the type of image referred to in Bug 2069? |
| 18:49 |
|
munin` |
Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/b[…]w_bug.cgi?id=2069 enhancement, P3, ---, oleonardmyacpl.org, NEW, Label Example Image |
| 18:53 |
|
wizzyrea |
huj |
| 18:53 |
|
wizzyrea |
hrm |
| 18:58 |
|
chris |
heh |
| 18:58 |
|
owen |
hunh? |
| 19:00 |
|
pianohacker |
resembles something from a word processing program |
| 19:00 |
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| 19:01 |
|
pianohacker |
you could have a static image showing what each dimension was (simple diagram) |
| 19:01 |
|
wizzyrea |
sec, looking in word for something like it |
| 19:01 |
|
pianohacker |
or, even better, start with that diagram and update proportions as the user entered dimensions, with <canvas> |
| 19:01 |
|
cait_laptop |
chris: problem: subject in emails and subjects in cataloging are different translation in German, but only on string in po - is there a way to split it? |
| 19:02 |
|
chris |
not easily |
| 19:02 |
|
cait_laptop |
chris: just an example, its a problem in differnt places |
| 19:02 |
|
wizzyrea |
http://screencast.com/t/zbH8Bvag |
| 19:02 |
|
wizzyrea |
presumably this would change if you told it different label size |
| 19:03 |
|
cait_laptop |
cancel is another example - most of the time its abbrechen, but sometimes it should be stornieren |
| 19:03 |
|
owen |
pianohacker: Thanks I'll get right on that :| |
| 19:04 |
|
pianohacker |
owen: I'm just fantasizing. really, a static diagram of a label sheet with some labeled dimensions would be helpful for the bug |
| 19:05 |
|
cait_laptop |
chris: hm. no easily is not good, will try to work around it as best as possible. |
| 19:06 |
|
wizzyrea |
http://screencast.com/t/GrViib75p |
| 19:06 |
|
wizzyrea |
actually never mind |
| 19:06 |
|
wizzyrea |
that's probably not it at all |
| 19:08 |
|
hdl |
pianohacker: I can see 3 branches prefs prefs-compact prefs-submit ? |
| 19:08 |
|
hdl |
which one is test-able ? |
| 19:09 |
|
pianohacker |
hdl: compact is a temporary branch, prefs is original work, and prefs-submit is the code as submitted to git.koha.org |
| 19:10 |
|
pianohacker |
sysprefs_editor on git.koha.org is best for testing |
| 19:10 |
|
pianohacker |
I'll push further changes to it from prefs_submit |
| 19:11 |
|
hdl |
ok thanks. |
| 19:17 |
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| 19:49 |
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| 19:49 |
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richard |
hi |
| 19:49 |
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pianohacker |
hello richard |
| 19:49 |
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richard |
hiya pianohacker |
| 19:50 |
|
hdl |
good night |
| 19:50 |
|
hdl |
thx pianohacker |
| 19:51 |
|
pianohacker |
see ya hdl |
| 19:51 |
|
chris |
night hdl |
| 19:57 |
|
pastebot |
"pianohacker" at 192.168.15.101 pasted "Possible easy solution to new syspref data file translation (YAML)" (27 lines) at http://paste.workbuffer.org/24 |
| 19:57 |
|
pianohacker |
any thoughts from devs? |
| 19:58 |
|
gmcharlt |
pianohacker: what do you mean my storing preferences in a cookie? preference values? |
| 19:59 |
|
pianohacker |
gmcharlt: that's cruft from pastebot |
| 19:59 |
|
pianohacker |
everything from "plain text..." down is not part of the paste |
| 20:00 |
|
gmcharlt |
ah, ok |
| 20:00 |
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| 20:00 |
|
gmcharlt |
at first glance, your proposal seems workable |
| 20:00 |
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pianohacker |
overuse_of_monospace-- |
| 20:01 |
|
pianohacker |
got idea from http://search.cpan.org/~drtech[…]ct/Plugin/YAML.pm |
| 20:04 |
|
pianohacker |
chris: any thoughts as one of the reluctant translation helpers? |
| 20:09 |
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chris |
reading now |
| 20:10 |
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| 20:11 |
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chris |
looks like it'll work |
| 20:11 |
|
chris |
thats how we would have to do the js too from what i can tell |
| 20:11 |
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chris |
if we dont want to try and implement something mad like tmpl_process3.pl |
| 20:12 |
|
Jo |
morning all |
| 20:12 |
|
cait_laptop |
good morning |
| 20:13 |
|
chris |
pianohacker: i like it |
| 20:15 |
|
chris_n |
owen about? |
| 20:15 |
|
owen |
For another few minutes |
| 20:15 |
|
chris_n |
re bug 2069... I might have an image you can use for that |
| 20:15 |
|
munin` |
Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/b[…]w_bug.cgi?id=2069 enhancement, P3, ---, oleonardmyacpl.org, NEW, Label Example Image |
| 20:16 |
|
chris_n |
if you are interested I'll shoot it your way later this evening or tomorrow morning |
| 20:17 |
|
owen |
Sure, I'd like to see it. I've been working something, but it's off the top of my head |
| 20:17 |
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| 20:18 |
|
chris_n |
@later tell gmcharlt to give his computer stronger coffee to drink so it will stay awake longer ;-) |
| 20:18 |
|
munin` |
chris_n: The operation succeeded. |
| 20:18 |
|
chris |
pianohacker: and the display code strips the _ out before handing it to the browser eh? |
| 20:19 |
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| 20:20 |
|
pianohacker |
chris: actually, I was thinking of making a generic module for handling YAML like this |
| 20:21 |
|
chris |
that works even better then |
| 20:21 |
|
pianohacker |
at least handling YAML::Syck's quirks and _ stripping |
| 20:21 |
|
chris |
yep |
| 20:21 |
|
pianohacker |
that way, preferences.pl wouldn't notice the difference |
| 20:21 |
|
chris |
*nod* |
| 20:22 |
|
chris |
and using xgettext.pl |
| 20:22 |
|
chris |
that would be easily translatable |
| 20:22 |
|
pianohacker |
yup. |
| 20:23 |
|
chris |
i think for the js, we ahve 2 options |
| 20:23 |
|
chris |
declare all the strings as variables |
| 20:23 |
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| 20:23 |
|
pianohacker |
(I've been putting of the task of making misc/translator/ understand the quirky .pref format for a while now, so this is better) |
| 20:24 |
|
chris |
then write code to generate .po from that |
| 20:24 |
|
chris |
or have a base one, with _ leading translatable strings |
| 20:24 |
|
chris |
and have a process to strip that out |
| 20:25 |
|
chris |
there seems to be no nice way of localizing js that i can find |
| 20:26 |
|
pianohacker |
it would have to be slightly flexible, to handle both the YAML's simple _ and js's _('') and _(""), but I like the second approach better |
| 20:27 |
|
pianohacker |
the first will make the js files much harder to read and change |
| 20:29 |
|
chris |
yep |
| 20:30 |
|
pianohacker |
the hardest part will be making xgettext and tmpl_process generic; tmpltokenizer is baked in pretty deep at the moment |
| 20:31 |
|
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| 20:32 |
|
pianohacker |
theoretically you could make a tokenizer that emulated the interface and output of tmpltokenizer, allowing that to stay in place |
| 20:33 |
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| 20:34 |
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| 20:35 |
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| 20:36 |
|
chris |
pianohacker: i want tmpl_process to go away |
| 20:36 |
|
chris |
so will be working hard on my template toolkit stuff |
| 20:36 |
|
chris |
(not before 3.2 of course) |
| 20:37 |
|
pianohacker |
yeah, too many cycles of "we just need it do this one little thing more" |
| 20:37 |
|
chris |
*nod* |
| 20:37 |
|
pianohacker |
how does your template::toolkit stuff deal with translation? |
| 20:41 |
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| 20:42 |
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| 20:44 |
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| 20:47 |
|
chris |
https://wiki.mozilla.org/Bugzi[…]te_Toolkit_syntax |
| 20:47 |
|
chris |
copying the way the bugzilla dudes do it |
| 20:49 |
|
chris |
basically localize on the fly from the .po files |
| 20:49 |
|
chris |
rather than having different template sets |
| 20:49 |
|
chris |
and through the magic of tt, cache the translated template |
| 20:51 |
|
chris |
(preprocess where applicable too) |
| 20:51 |
|
pianohacker |
hmm. that looks survivable |
| 20:51 |
|
pianohacker |
we have gigantic .po's, though; how would you deal with first |
| 20:51 |
|
chris |
and then my plan to release language packs |
| 20:52 |
|
pianohacker |
-time lag |
| 20:52 |
|
chris |
yeah, break them up |
| 20:52 |
|
chris |
we have one giant one for the intranet now |
| 20:52 |
|
pianohacker |
ahh, okay. By module, maybe? |
| 20:52 |
|
chris |
that also can solve cait_laptop's problem |
| 20:53 |
|
chris |
where the same string needs to be translated different in different templates |
| 20:53 |
|
* cait_laptop |
starts reading |
| 20:53 |
|
chris |
(different contexts) |
| 20:53 |
|
chris |
also once we do this |
| 20:53 |
|
pianohacker |
diff translations in different templates, or merely different modules? |
| 20:54 |
|
chris |
it becuase easy to check translations inside context |
| 20:54 |
|
chris |
becomes even |
| 20:54 |
|
chris |
pianohacker: probably module .. there will be some trial and error |
| 20:55 |
|
chris |
we can have .pot files too |
| 20:56 |
|
chris |
and a terminology list |
| 20:57 |
|
chris |
so that we can create .po files using the teminology list .. and then it would just be changing the ones that need to be different |
| 20:57 |
|
chris |
rather than translating the same thing again and again |
| 20:58 |
|
chris |
or we could have one big .po in pootle the way we do now |
| 20:58 |
|
chris |
and have a script to split it (there are lots of these) |
| 20:59 |
|
chris |
so in the release you get the split ones, and if you run from git, you can run the script to do it yourself |
| 21:00 |
|
chris |
basically i havent decided yet :) |
| 21:01 |
|
pianohacker |
all sounds good |
| 21:01 |
|
chris |
my ultimate goal |
| 21:01 |
|
chris |
is to be able to translate from within koha |
| 21:02 |
|
chris |
and if you are rendering from the .tt + .po file |
| 21:02 |
|
chris_n2 |
@later tell owen I added a suggested image to bug 2069 as well as a couple of other observations |
| 21:02 |
|
munin` |
chris_n2: The operation succeeded. |
| 21:02 |
|
cait_laptop |
I think translators would really like that - but sounds like a lot of work |
| 21:02 |
|
chris |
that makes it a lot easier to see you translation right away |
| 21:03 |
|
chris |
but a first step is |
| 21:04 |
|
chris |
have my koha running using the .tt and .po files |
| 21:04 |
|
chris |
so that when you change something in pootle it changes .po file .. and it shows up in my translation koha right away |
| 21:05 |
|
chris |
that should make translation easier |
| 21:05 |
|
chris |
or at least easier to check |
| 21:07 |
|
cait_laptop |
chris++ |
| 21:08 |
|
cait_laptop |
good night :) |
| 21:09 |
|
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| 21:11 |
|
pianohacker |
chris: last-gasp use of the tmpl_process architecture could be to accurately convert everything to .tt- |
| 21:12 |
|
chris |
*nod* |
| 21:12 |
|
chris |
there is a perl module to do that too, which seems to do an ok job |
| 21:15 |
|
pianohacker |
bbl later, off to library and ice cream |
| 21:17 |
|
chris |
nice |
| 21:39 |
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| 21:40 |
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| 21:44 |
|
chris |
hmmwb gmcharlt |
| 21:44 |
|
chris |
heh, wb even |
| 21:57 |
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| 21:57 |
|
CGI028 |
Hey all |
| 21:57 |
|
CGI028 |
I've got a small question regarding items in Koha |
| 21:57 |
|
CGI028 |
branch, barcode, itemtype) to the MARC data |
| 21:58 |
|
CGI028 |
But when I view the biblio record |
| 21:58 |
|
CGI028 |
so 4) |
| 21:58 |
|
CGI028 |
Can anyone give me a quick hand? |
| 22:01 |
|
chris |
sorry i dont understand your question |
| 22:04 |
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| 22:05 |
|
CGI028 |
One second, I may have figured it out myself =) |
| 22:13 |
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| 22:29 |
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|Lupin| joined #koha |
| 22:29 |
|
|Lupin| |
good evening, all |
| 22:29 |
|
|Lupin| |
good day NZ |
| 22:37 |
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| 22:41 |
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| 22:58 |
|
pianohacker |
hi |Lupin| |
| 23:09 |
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| 23:11 |
|
|Lupin| |
hey pianohacker |
| 23:11 |
|
|Lupin| |
pianohacker: how are you ? |
| 23:11 |
|
pianohacker |
alright |
| 23:11 |
|
|Lupin| |
great |
| 23:12 |
|
pianohacker |
typing one-handed due to broken fingers, but otherwise okay |
| 23:12 |
|
pianohacker |
what are you up to? |
| 23:14 |
|
|Lupin| |
pianohacker: what happened toyour fingers ? |
| 23:14 |
|
|Lupin| |
pianohacker: just install |
| 23:14 |
|
|Lupin| |
pianohacker: just installing a production Koha |
| 23:14 |
|
pianohacker |
(bicycle accident) |
| 23:15 |
|
pianohacker |
cool |
| 23:15 |
|
|Lupin| |
pianohacker: oops |
| 23:15 |
|
|Lupin| |
pianohacker: how long are you gonna be handicapped ? |
| 23:15 |
|
pianohacker |
a few more weeks |
| 23:16 |
|
pianohacker |
good opportunity to relearn touch typing |
| 23:16 |
|
|Lupin| |
sure... |
| 23:16 |
|
|Lupin| |
pianohacker: and to learn to appreciate the abilities one has with two hands... :-) |
| 23:17 |
|
pianohacker |
no kidding on that one :) |
| 23:17 |
|
pianohacker |
who's the production koha for? |
| 23:17 |
|
* |Lupin| |
is wondering why cpan persists to place the .cpan directory in a user's home directory whereas cpan initialize is ran as root |
| 23:17 |
|
|Lupin| |
pianohacker: my employer, the BrailleNet non-profit organisation |
| 23:18 |
|
pianohacker |
|Lupin|: cpan is quite strange |
| 23:18 |
|
pianohacker |
|Lupin|: nice! are you going live soon? |
| 23:18 |
|
|Lupin| |
pianohacker: ok, but there is no reference to this directory in the environment for instance, so I'm really wonderign where it takes it from... |
| 23:19 |
|
|Lupin| |
pianohacker: hmm, delicate question |
| 23:19 |
|
pianohacker |
|Lupin|: are you running it with sudo? sudo can copy environment sometimes |
| 23:19 |
|
pianohacker |
uh-oh |
| 23:20 |
|
|Lupin| |
pianohacker: the developments are not finished yet. We need to adapt KOha so that our librarians can use it to upload files in addition to cataloguing, so I'm working on that now |
| 23:20 |
|
pianohacker |
ahh |
| 23:20 |
|
|Lupin| |
pianohacker: no I did a sdo su - |
| 23:20 |
|
pianohacker |
any chance of public patches? That sounds really nice |
| 23:20 |
|
|Lupin| |
pianohacker: and just looked at env's output |
| 23:20 |
|
pianohacker |
hmm. |
| 23:20 |
|
|Lupin| |
pianohacker: hmm... |
| 23:22 |
|
|Lupin| |
pianohacker: not sure the KOha community is that interested... for ppl here cataloguing the files in Koha and storing them in a digital library management sstem should be two distinct actions, but for our use-case it is not very convenient |
| 23:22 |
|
|
rhcl_busy is now known as rhcl_away |
| 23:22 |
|
pianohacker |
I dunno. You could put it in a public git branch and see what people thought |
| 23:23 |
|
|Lupin| |
pianohacker: sure |
| 23:24 |
|
pianohacker |
If it wasn't too intrusive, could be useful for the occasional pdf someone wanted to put in their catalog |
| 23:24 |
|
chris |
not so much should be distinct actions, but you should store digital documents in a digital document management system |
| 23:24 |
|
chris |
wether you catalogue them in koha or not |
| 23:24 |
|
chris |
otherwise you are just making your life difficult for the future |
| 23:25 |
|
|Lupin| |
pianohacker: also, for the moment the integration is perhaps not as smooth as it could be. In particular, the part that transfers the files to the library management system should probably go into a plgin, but since this involves javascripting which is hard for me to do and test, I just replaced the additem script and template by a non-javscript version that uses only simple forms |
| 23:25 |
|
pianohacker |
that additem two alone might actually be |
| 23:25 |
|
pianohacker |
(sorry, hit enter by accident, nvm) |
| 23:26 |
|
chris |
with a digital repository you get version control, full text searchign (where applicable) interface to remove/move the documents etc |
| 23:26 |
|
|Lupin| |
chris: yeah I think in the long run this is what's going to happen. It's just that for the moment we have a home-made thing which hardly deserves the name of library management system but which we don't want to replace now. |
| 23:27 |
|
chris |
so as long as the patches head towards allowing koha to work happily with a digital repository, like kete,fedora,greenstone etc |
| 23:27 |
|
|Lupin| |
chris: the strategy which has been decided was to first replace the home-made web server by KOha (keeping the initial file server at that time), and then perhaps replace the file server by a genuine igital library management system |
| 23:27 |
|
pianohacker |
brb dinner |
| 23:27 |
|
chris |
if its a step along that path, then im sure everyone would like it |
| 23:28 |
|
|Lupin| |
chris: even n its present state ? (no plugins...?) |
| 23:29 |
|
|Lupin| |
chris: do you have an idea about the previously mentionned cpan issue, pls ? |
| 23:29 |
|
chris |
if you put it in a public branch and keep it up to date, then its a step along a path, if you dont, its a dead end :) |
| 23:29 |
|
* chris |
reads back |
| 23:30 |
|
chris |
yeah sudo su - |
| 23:30 |
|
chris |
isnt the same as |
| 23:30 |
|
chris |
su - root |
| 23:31 |
|
|Lupin| |
chris: what's the difference ? |
| 23:32 |
|
|Lupin| |
chris: I didn't know the root password that's why I was forced to use sudo. Now I changed the root password so I can use sudo - root |
| 23:33 |
|
chris |
basically youre environment doesnt change when you run sudo |
| 23:33 |
|
chris |
your |
| 23:34 |
|
chris |
at least it doesnt always |
| 23:34 |
|
|Lupin| |
well I checked that and the environment looked to me as a genuine root environment |
| 23:35 |
|
chris |
well its obviously not :) |
| 23:35 |
|
chris |
or cpan would have no idea what user you actually were |
| 23:35 |
|
|Lupin| |
chris: now when I run cpan initialize even as root, it seems it remembers some settings. For instance it doesn't ask me if it is ok to guess configuration values |
| 23:35 |
|
|Lupin| |
(although the .cpan dir in the user's home dir has been removed) |
| 23:35 |
|
chris |
did you su root |
| 23:35 |
|
chris |
? |
| 23:36 |
|
|Lupin| |
yes |
| 23:36 |
|
|Lupin| |
I su - root |
| 23:36 |
|
chris |
and is there a .cpan dir in /root now? |
| 23:37 |
|
|Lupin| |
chris: no |
| 23:37 |
|
chris |
no idea then |
| 23:37 |
|
|Lupin| |
chris: does cpan use some other configuraiton files where it could store settings or so ? |
| 23:37 |
|
chris |
yes |
| 23:38 |
|
|Lupin| |
chris: where are they ? |
| 23:38 |
|
chris |
no idea on your system |
| 23:38 |
|
|Lupin| |
chris: looked in /etc but couldn't find anything whose name contained cpan |
| 23:38 |
|
|Lupin| |
chris: it's a freshly installd debian lenny |
| 23:38 |
|
chris |
most of it is the module |
| 23:39 |
|
chris |
and is overriden by the settings in .cpan |
| 23:39 |
|
|Lupin| |
when I run cpan as root it imediately creates a directory under the user's home and asks whether it is OK to connect to the iinernet |
| 23:41 |
|
chris |
what user? |
| 23:42 |
|
|Lupin| |
I'm sorry ? |
| 23:42 |
|
|Lupin| |
ah, |
| 23:42 |
|
chris |
if you are running as root, then root is your user |
| 23:42 |
|
|Lupin| |
my non-root user's account |
| 23:43 |
|
|Lupin| |
but I just examined the output of set and env |
| 23:43 |
|
|Lupin| |
and they don't mention this directory |
| 23:43 |
|
|Lupin| |
except in OLDPWD |
| 23:44 |
|
|Lupin| |
chris: yeah UID=0, USER=root, LOGNAME=root, HOME=/root |
| 23:44 |
|
|Lupin| |
everything seems correct |
| 23:44 |
|
chris |
what directory are you in when you run cpan |
| 23:44 |
|
|Lupin| |
/root |
| 23:44 |
|
chris |
weird |
| 23:45 |
|
chris |
works fine for me |
| 23:45 |
|
chris |
rootchris-laptop:/# ls -la /root/ |
| 23:45 |
|
chris |
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 2009-10-09 12:42 .cpan |
| 23:45 |
|
|Lupin| |
I'm gonna strace the command and have a look to which files it opens... |
| 23:45 |
|
chris |
(just tried it on my laptop) |
| 23:47 |
|
|Lupin| |
chris: ok |
| 23:48 |
|
chris |
there must be some remnant of it been run before that it remembers |
| 23:51 |
|
|Lupin| |
yeah |
| 23:51 |
|
|Lupin| |
I think it has a debugging mode |
| 23:51 |
|
|Lupin| |
if looking at the list of files it opens does not succeed, I'll turn to that |
| 23:52 |
|
|Lupin| |
/etc/perl/CPAN/Config.pm |
| 23:52 |
|
|Lupin| |
hmm |
| 23:52 |
|
|Lupin| |
didn't think about an pper-case name, grrr |
| 23:53 |
|
|Lupin| |
'build_dir' => q[/home/dirnat/hinderer/.cpan/build], |
| 23:53 |
|
|Lupin| |
here it is... |
| 23:57 |
|
chris |
:) |
| 23:58 |
|
* |Lupin| |
promises to use -iname rather than -name when running find.. |
