IRC log for #koha, 2009-10-07

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:07 chris_n2 left #koha
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00:58 pianohackr|work brb, headed home
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01:31 ricardo Sleep time. Take care everyone!  :)
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03:20 Amit hi chris, Jo
03:20 Amit good morning #koha
03:23 pianohacker Hi Amit
03:23 Amit hi pianohacker
03:23 Amit @wunder New Delhi
03:23 munin` Amit: The current temperature in New Delhi, India is 22.0�C (6:00 AM IST on October 07, 2009). Conditions: Fog. Humidity: 100%. Dew Point: 22.0�C. Pressure: 29.68 in 1005 hPa (Rising).
03:24 Amit @wunder Dehradun, india
03:24 munin` Amit: The current temperature in Dehradun, India is 20.0�C (5:30 AM IST on October 07, 2009). Conditions: Mist. Humidity: 98%. Dew Point: 20.0�C. Pressure: 29.63 in 1003 hPa.
03:24 Amit @wunder bangalore, india
03:25 munin` Amit: The current temperature in Bangalore, India is 20.0�C (5:30 AM IST on October 07, 2009). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 87%. Dew Point: 18.0�C.
03:34 Amit left #koha
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04:06 * pianohacker shakes fist at chris - massive merge, with the latest .po updates
04:25 Amit left #koha
04:36 pianohacker good night, all
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05:22 Amit heya nicomo
05:23 nicomo hi Amit
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06:01 hdl_laptop hi
06:01 hdl_laptop chris howdy ?
06:07 Ropuch Morning, #koha
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06:19 kf good morning
06:19 Amit heya kf
06:20 Ropuch Hi kf, Amit
06:20 Amit heya ropuch
06:21 nahuel joined #koha
06:22 kf hi Amit, Ropuch and nahuel
06:23 nahuel Hi
06:24 Amit heya nahuel, magusenger
06:27 hdl_laptop hi Amit
06:27 Amit hi hdl_laptop
06:35 Amit @wunder New Delhi, india
06:35 munin` Amit: The current temperature in New Delhi, India is 30.0�C (11:30 AM IST on October 07, 2009). Conditions: Haze. Humidity: 55%. Dew Point: 20.0�C. Pressure: 29.71 in 1006 hPa (Steady).
06:48 kf @wunder Konstanz
06:48 munin` kf: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Germany is 12.9�C (8:47 AM CEST on October 07, 2009). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 96%. Dew Point: 12.0�C. Pressure: 30.06 in 1017.8 hPa (Steady).
06:54 francharb joined #koha
07:01 Jo Just had the coolest visit with Richard Stallman
07:01 Jo good lecture followed by lovely shared meal and discussion around the library staffroom coffee table
07:02 Jo Koha meeting in 3 hours
07:02 Kivutar joined #koha
07:02 Jo left #koha
07:06 chris yep, was a good visit
07:07 chris "Koha, that's good software" - RMS .. that's something we can all be proud of
07:13 paul_p joined #koha
07:16 nahuel chris, !!!
07:17 nahuel hi !
07:17 chris that's what he said when brenda introduced me to him
07:17 chris hi nahuel :)
07:18 kf hi chris and jo
07:18 nahuel hehe, was he sincere ?
07:18 chris yep
07:19 chris was pretty neat
07:19 paul_p nahuel: rms was in the jury that gave Koha an award at Trophée du Libre, in 2003
07:19 paul_p so, he knows what is Koha, for sure !
07:19 nahuel Ah ok
07:19 nahuel didn't know
07:19 paul_p (the trophy is at our office ;-) )
07:42 paul_p owen++ (once again, for it's blog about customizing koha...)
07:50 kf yes, owen++  - this was again something my library asked for :)
07:52 nicomo joined #koha
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08:02 slef chris: horrified by some, reassured by others
08:03 slef chris: to be frank, terrible LMSes are more common problem for me using library websites than CAPTCHAs at the moment.
08:03 chris yep
08:04 chris it was more the "harden up and get over it" attitude
08:06 slef In general, IT has too many followers of Ayn Rand for my taste.
08:10 chris yep
08:13 kyle joined #koha
08:43 jransom joined #koha
08:43 chris hi jransom
08:48 Amit hi slef, jransom
08:49 jransom hi all
08:54 slef 1h10 to meeting?
08:54 chris yep
08:57 paul_p chris: don't you ever sleep ?
08:58 chris its only 10pm
08:58 paul_p oups, right. I made a mistake (with US waking up early for the meeting)
08:58 chris yep, i had the early one last time :)
09:01 thd-away is now known as thd
09:16 Joann joined #koha
09:18 |Lupin| joined #koha
09:18 |Lupin| hello, everybody
09:19 juan joined #koha
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09:20 xercode-Juan joined #koha
09:20 Amit hi lupin
09:20 Amit 40 min to meeting?
09:22 Joann yep
09:24 |Lupin| hi amit
09:25 mib_2b416n joined #koha
09:31 kf guten morgen |Lupin| :)
09:33 Amit kf: guten morgen meaning
09:34 Joann good morning
09:34 Amit aah!
09:34 Joann morena (in Maori)
09:34 slef bonan matenon
09:35 Joann in what language?
09:36 Amit Joaan: is french
09:36 slef esperanto
09:36 slef bonne matin (in French)
09:37 slef I think
09:37 slef damnit, I so rarely write French at the moment
09:37 slef biab
09:37 mib_2b416n left #koha
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09:40 kf Amit: sorry, I didnt see your question, but Joann is right, its German for good morning
09:40 paul_p slef: true. it's "bon matin" ;-)
09:40 ricardo joined #koha
09:41 hdl_laptop in fact we say bon jour
09:41 hdl_laptop Bon matin is direct translation
09:42 gmcharlt good morning
09:42 hdl_laptop hi gmcharlt
09:42 |Lupin| stack underflow:tags stack is empty
09:42 |Lupin| is anybody familiar with this message found in Koha logs ?
09:42 |Lupin| hi galen
09:42 Joann when chris comes back make sure you ask him what Richard Stallman said to him about Koha today :)
09:43 ricardo hdl_laptop: Bonjour! :)  It's correct to say it as one word also, right?
09:43 |Lupin| ricardo: definitely
09:43 |Lupin| ricardo: it's never written in two words I'd say
09:43 ricardo |Lupin|: Thanks
09:44 chris hdl_laptop: we say ata marie ... morena is a direct translation
09:44 Amit hi galen, ricardo
09:44 hdl_laptop |Lupin|:
09:44 hdl_laptop yes
09:44 chris transliteration even
09:44 ricardo (I only studied French in High School, during 5 years. And that was over 15 years ago. So saying that I'm rusty in French would be an understatement...)
09:44 Joann we say talofa lava in our family
09:44 hdl_laptop you have a problem with TMPL unclosed
09:45 Joann not sure if its samoan for hello or goodmorning
09:45 hdl_laptop or a closing TMPL which closes nothing
09:45 |Lupin| hdl_laptop: yes to what ? the question about the message, or the bonjour ?
09:45 Joann (samoan inlaws)
09:45 chris Joann: its hello
09:45 hdl_laptop |Lupin|: yes to question ;)
09:45 chris malo e lelei in tongan
09:45 |Lupin| hdl_laptop: ok. but the produced document is a valid html one, validated by the W3C validator.
09:45 Joann chris: thank you
09:45 |Lupin| hdl_laptop: so how can I check where the error comes from ?
09:46 Amit now 15 min to meeting
09:46 ricardo |Lupin|: That's probably because the TMPL tags are HTML comments, if I remember correctly. The W3C validator will ignore those
09:46 hdl_laptop look at templates. and try to match any TMPL_IF with /TMPL_IF
09:46 chris Joann: tofa soifua is goodbye in samoan
09:46 hdl_laptop and any TMPL_LOOP with /TMPL_LOOP
09:47 chris and faafetai is thanks
09:47 chris thats about the limit of my knowledge
09:47 hdl_laptop (It is hard when you see, can't imagine how hard it is when you are blind)
09:47 Joann its pretty impressive :)
09:47 |Lupin| hdl_laptop: yeah I'm precisely developing a template. But isn't there a tool that coudl help ? it's a tough job to re-read the whole template...
09:47 |Lupin| hdl_laptop: ah ok, it's hard...
09:48 hdl_laptop (well, not hard, but really trouble maker)
09:48 |Lupin| hdl_laptop: isn't there a way to debug templates, or so ? :)
09:48 brendan joined #koha
09:49 chris Joann: rugby :)
09:49 brendan morning #koha
09:50 ricardo Morning brendan!
09:50 Joann boxing !
09:51 |Lupin| hdl_laptop: does the fact that the produced document is valid prove that the problem necessarily is at the TMPL level ?
09:51 hdl_laptop No
09:51 hdl_laptop It is your Log message which proves that
09:52 Colin joined #koha
09:52 |Lupin| hdl_laptop: you said the message proves there is either an htl problem, or a tmpl problem... no ?
09:52 Nate joined #koha
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09:53 hdl_laptop you have a problem with TMPL unclosed or a closing TMPL which closes nothing
09:54 hdl_laptop Can't see any html ;)
09:54 |Lupin| hdl_laptop: oops, misread / misunderstood, sorry
09:54 gmcharlt @later tell pianohacker go ahead and send the syspref pull request if you haven't already
09:54 munin` gmcharlt: The operation succeeded.
09:55 reed joined #koha
09:56 owen joined #koha
09:57 owen I'm just stopping in to make my apologies
09:58 ricardo owen: You're excused... Now, what did you do wrong... this time?  ;-)
09:58 gmcharlt owen: you got up early for that? ;)
09:58 owen gmcharlt: No, and that's why I can't make the meeting. I got up early to get the kids up and ready for school :)
09:58 brendan owen++
09:58 gmcharlt let'em teach themselves today ;)
09:59 ricardo owen: "Hey Owen! Leave the kids alone!" ... with apologies to "Pink Floyd"  ;-)
09:59 owen If they were older I could tell their teachers they're staying home to sit in on an important example of 21st-century community interaction
10:00 Ropuch ;>
10:00 gmcharlt ok, we're approaching that time
10:00 ricardo gmcharlt: *nod*
10:01 xercode-Juan left #koha
10:01 gmcharlt to all, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, and good night
10:01 gmcharlt welcome to today's general Koha IRC meeting
10:01 ricardo Good attendance for this time of very-early-morning for "you" (people in the US)... I don't know what time is in New Zealand now, but I wouldn't mind pushing this meeting an hour later or so, so it's NOT that early in the US
10:01 ricardo (shutting up now)
10:01 gmcharlt the wiki page for this is[…]etingnotes09oct07
10:02 |Lupin| not participating to the meeting, bye everybody !
10:02 owen is now known as owen-away
10:02 gmcharlt the agenda is
10:02 Joann 11pm here in NZ
10:02 gmcharlt 1.
10:02 gmcharlt Update on Roadmap to 3.2
10:02 gmcharlt 2.
10:02 gmcharlt Update on Koha 3.0 Roadmap
10:02 gmcharlt 3.
10:02 sekjal joined #koha
10:02 gmcharlt Review Wiki Relicensing Ballot
10:02 gmcharlt 4.
10:02 gmcharlt Follow-up on actions from General IRC Meeting 2 September 2009
10:02 gmcharlt 1.
10:02 gmcharlt Koha Tutorials
10:02 nengard joined #koha
10:02 paul_p hi everybody
10:02 gmcharlt 2.
10:02 gmcharlt Bugzilla default assignees and maintenance
10:02 vickiteal joined #koha
10:02 gmcharlt 3.
10:02 gmcharlt Mysql Schema Documentation
10:02 gmcharlt 5.
10:02 gmcharlt Follow-up on actions from Foundation-forming Meeting, 15 September 2009
10:02 gmcharlt 1.
10:02 gmcharlt Comparison chart of associations and foundations
10:02 gmcharlt 2.
10:02 gmcharlt Vote for Foundation Options (pt 1)
10:02 gmcharlt 6.
10:02 gmcharlt Agree times of next meetings: Foundation-forming 19 UTC 28 October 2009; General 19 UTC 4 November 2009
10:02 gmcharlt (oops, sorry about that bad paste)
10:02 gmcharlt let's get started with intros
10:02 * gmcharlt = Galen Charlton, release manager, Equinox
10:02 kmkale joined #koha
10:03 * slef = MJ Ray, member,
10:03 * nengard Nicole Engard, Doc Manager, ByWater/BibLibre
10:03 jwagner Jane Wagner, PTFS
10:03 * kf = Katrin Fischer, BSZ Konstanz, Germany
10:03 * Ropuch = Piotr Wejman, CSNE Library, Poland
10:03 chris chris = Chris Cormack, Translation Manager, Catalyst
10:03 vickiteal Vicki Teal Lovely, SCLS, Madison WI
10:03 Amit Amit Gupta, Nucsoft Osslabs
10:03 brendan Brendan Gallagher, ByWater Solutions
10:03 paul_p Paul P. BibLibre owner
10:03 * sekjal = Ian Walls, NYU Health Sciences Libraries
10:03 magnusenger Magnus Enger, Libriotech, Norway
10:03 Nate Nate Curulla ByWater Solutions
10:03 Joann Joann Ransom, Horowhenua Library Trust, NZ
10:03 hdl_laptop Henri-Damien LAURENT BibLibre owner
10:03 Colin Colin Campbell - PTFS-Europe
10:03 |Lupin| left #koha
10:04 kmkale Koustubha Kale, Anant Corporation,
10:04 reed Reed Wade, Catalyst, NZ
10:04 jfield joined #koha
10:04 ricardo ricardo = Ricardo Dias Marques, author of installation guide of Koha in openSUSE and contributor/approver to Portuguese translation, Portugal
10:04 custard left #koha
10:04 thd Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
10:05 gmcharlt ok, cool
10:05 gmcharlt slef: before we get started, are you willing to do the wiki updates?
10:05 slef gmcharlt: yes, I can
10:05 gmcharlt thanks
10:05 custard joined #koha
10:05 thd which wiki updates?
10:06 slef thd: notes/actions and transcript I think
10:06 gmcharlt yes
10:06 gmcharlt so for first agenda item, 3.2
10:07 gmcharlt as I'm sure it's been obvious, september has not been a good month for me, workload wise
10:07 slef amen!
10:07 gmcharlt however, the dust is settling, and I'll be pulling together an alpha release before the 4 November 2009 meeting come hell or high water
10:08 chris sweet
10:08 gmcharlt beyond, that, I don't have much to say unless people would like to talk a bit about what they've been up to, coding-wise
10:08 gmcharlt (not much more to say than extneding my apologies, of course)
10:08 hdl_laptop We have made a branch over master
10:08 hdl_laptop gathering all our work.
10:08 hdl_laptop And even our work in progress
10:09 hdl_laptop You can see that in
10:09 xercode-Juan joined #koha
10:09 gmcharlt BibLibre++
10:09 hdl_laptop results can also be tested on biblibre_head.git.biblibre.
10:09 hdl_laptop com
10:09 hdl_laptop and
10:09 francharb left #koha
10:09 paul_p ( )
10:10 nahuel hi
10:10 hdl_laptop many things improved.
10:10 nahuel :)
10:10 davi joined #koha
10:10 hdl_laptop newacq is integrated on that branch
10:10 paul_p hdl_laptop: login/password ?
10:10 davi hi
10:10 hdl_laptop will create one
10:10 andy oopse, hi ... (Andy Chilton, Catalyst)
10:10 hdl_laptop But test/test might work
10:10 andy is now known as pie
10:10 hdl_laptop or biblibre/reblibib
10:11 paul_p hdl_laptop: none of them works
10:11 rafael joined #koha
10:11 hdl_laptop so I will create test/test
10:11 gmcharlt cool
10:11 ricardo paul_p: What you're complaining about... It's the proof that it's a very secure system  ;-)
10:12 paul_p ricardo: lol
10:12 * gmcharlt just had a wicked thought: *don't* create a test account, and really find out how secure Koha is ;)
10:12 slef Sorry that we've been reacting to customer requests for the new academic year rather than cleaning/publishing.
10:12 ricardo All kidding aside. Thumbs up to Biblibre! (Paul, Henri and theis other colleagues)
10:12 ricardo s/theis/their
10:12 kf biblibre++
10:12 sekjal biblibre++, indeed
10:13 hdl_laptop And we are also working on some refactoring for item inputs
10:13 paul_p just 2 things missing in new_acq, that we expect to work soon on: improving pdf generation, and choosing delivery place
10:13 hdl_laptop best integration of all the features added for instance ExtendedAttributes.
10:14 hdl_laptop and Search is also a place of choice for bug fixes.
10:14 slef I ask other developers to refrain from caustic comments about how easy/hard it is to clean up code - our non-contracted collaborators *do* read the lists, *do* see those comments and it *does* discourage them from helping.  Often there's no benefit in giving back in the short term.
10:14 slef Not for them, anyway.
10:15 gmcharlt ok, let's move on to 3.0 : hdl_laptop?
10:15 slef Longer term, yeah, they'll sell more to Koha-using libraries, but they're a bit sceptical about the value of that at the mo. EOL
10:15 hdl_laptop no other ppl want to speak on 3.2?
10:16 hdl_laptop ok 3.0
10:16 hdl_laptop We have been testing that over the last 2 weeks.
10:17 hdl_laptop I announced that translation work was to be done.
10:17 hdl_laptop And French OPAC has been all suggested.
10:17 hdl_laptop PT-pt is translated
10:17 hdl_laptop German is also thx kf ;)
10:17 chris and polish
10:18 kf :)
10:18 hdl_laptop But I think that we can get some more in the next few days.
10:18 hdl_laptop And we could release next week.
10:18 chris and dutch
10:18 chris yep
10:18 ricardo hdl_laptop: "pt-PT" translation is almost finished, yes... at least the PO files (will also translate UNIMARC frameworks, but that work may only be finished by the end of this month)...
10:18 ricardo hdl_laptop: So, it's fine by me if 3.0.4 only has the updated translation of PO files
10:19 hdl_laptop I would like to release official before 14 Oct.
10:19 rafael we are on the process to translate all unimarc frameworks for portuguese and after that a complete manual
10:19 hdl_laptop congratulations.
10:19 ricardo Hi rafael! Didn't see you there  :)
10:19 hdl_laptop nengard: is working on docbook for documentation.
10:20 rafael I have just arrived. Finally!!!
10:20 hdl_laptop It should be easier to translate.
10:20 nengard hdl_laptop - nicolas and i talked and are looking into easier options than docbook to update
10:20 hdl_laptop (should be 3.2)
10:20 ricardo hdl_laptop: *nod*
10:20 nengard but that are still translatable
10:20 slef I see bug 3306 and bug 3678 seem to be blocking the release
10:21 munin` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3306 blocker, PATCH-Sent, ---,, ASSIGNED, ReturnBeforeExpiry and RenewalPeriodBase problems
10:21 munin` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3678 blocker, PATCH-Sent, ---,, ASSIGNED, Reserved biblionumber not detected
10:21 hdl_laptop will cherry pick if not already done ;)
10:22 slef ta
10:22 hdl_laptop and bug 3678 has been adressed by nahuel
10:22 hdl_laptop patch pushed
10:23 ricardo Bug 3689
10:23 munin` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3689 major, PATCH-Sent, ---,, ASSIGNED, Searching for a single keyword returns no results, although they exist
10:23 slef ok, both bugs are marked as patch-sent, but are still open
10:24 gmcharlt which would be OK, if the patch hasn't been pushed yet or is still awaiting testing
10:24 hdl_laptop I have not announced path pushed and ask for closing.
10:24 hdl_laptop I should have.
10:25 slef ok, as long as they're done, no problem... just stealing the QA hat for a mo
10:25 gmcharlt although maybe we should think about adding a status to indicate that a bug is believed to be fixed (patch pushed, in particular) but that we're awaiting confirmation from the original bug reporter
10:25 ricardo hdl_laptop: I understand that you're swamped in work and I really appreciate your great work. I would just want to know if the patch will be commited for 3.0.4 (when you have the time to read it)
10:25 slef we've also got bug 2830 and bug 3432 in the critical column for 3.0.4
10:25 munin` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=2830 critical, P3, ---,, NEW, Hold not removed when "trapped" item on hold shelf is checked out to a different patron in the holds queue
10:25 ricardo gmcharlt: *nod*
10:25 munin` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3432 critical, PATCH-Sent, ---,, ASSIGNED, Returning lost items
10:26 slef the second looks done, again
10:26 kf I think many bugs remain open although the bug is fixed - can somebody else test and close too?
10:27 slef the first hasn't changed since January... anyone want to pick it up?
10:27 hdl_laptop Will pick that up.
10:27 * gmcharlt encourages somebody to do so, please
10:27 slef kf: yes. anyone: please do if you can.  I think we have no long-term QA manager.
10:27 gmcharlt hdl_laptop++
10:27 davi not me, I have one which I have not done anything yet
10:27 slef hdl_laptop++
10:28 nengard we talked about this at the last meeting - and all promised to go test our open bugs and close them if they were done - the problem is that the patch writer shouldn't be closing bugs
10:28 nengard they should be tested by the reporter
10:28 jfield left #koha
10:28 slef nengard: in the case of forwarded-from-vendor bugs, the patch writer will be the reporter
10:28 gmcharlt and if the reporter isn't available, ideally by somebody other than the person who made the patch
10:28 ricardo gmcharlt: *nod*
10:28 gmcharlt slef: yes, that case is different
10:28 nengard slef - true and I do go in and test a bunch of those when I document the feature - in fact I close a lot of bugs after I document the features
10:28 hdl_laptop I propose to open a testing interface for 3.0.x
10:29 hdl_laptop So that ppl can have a reference for testing and closing bugs.
10:29 slef I have reassigned that bug to hdl_laptop
10:29 hdl_laptop But we should have then MARC21 and UNIMARC interfaces.
10:29 kf hdl_laptop: I think thats a good idea!
10:30 hdl_laptop And Zebra and NoZebra too (should we not ricardo ? ;) )
10:30 gmcharlt hdl_laptop: if you need MARC21 data, I can supply it
10:30 ricardo hdl_laptop: Eheh... True  :)
10:30 hdl_laptop I think there are some commited
10:31 hdl_laptop in order to make tests
10:31 gmcharlt have we exhausted the topic of 3.0?
10:31 slef This is a good idea, but hard to do well.
10:31 paul_p hdl_laptop & all: test / test now working
10:31 hdl_laptop thx paul_p.
10:31 gmcharlt let's move on to 3. Review Wiki Relicensing Ballot
10:31 ricardo hdl_laptop: I have a testing interface for UNIMARC + NoZebra. I'm not sure how I should secure it from possible "attacks" though... Maybe set up a cron job that restores the Koha MySQL database from some good known state.
10:31 paul_p hdl_laptop: missing buttons on members (to add a member, or modify permissions. I suspect granular perms are missing
10:31 gmcharlt
10:32 paul_p (I had to paste the complete url from a 3.0 ;-) )
10:32 slef gmcharlt: I need to add a "duplicate username" section to the ballot, but does anyone have any comments apart from that?
10:32 slef gmcharlt: I could not commit to sending emails because I do not have the user database in the wiki dump I have.
10:33 gmcharlt slef: no problem - I can give you the email addresses of the registered voters
10:33 slef gmcharlt: one other thing: I will make the ballot more explicit than "this change".  Instead it will say "the change to the GPL"
10:34 gmcharlt cool
10:34 slef gmcharlt: thanks.  Any time before tomorrow? ;-)  Are the dates OK for people otherwise?
10:34 slef gmcharlt: between 9 October and 11 October 2009 (UTC)
10:34 gmcharlt that's fine with me
10:35 hdl_laptop Is there a url for the ballot ?
10:35 slef everyone, please, if you recognise a username and think they might have changed email or not see a bulk email, let them know.
10:35 gmcharlt
10:35 hdl_laptop ok for me
10:35 ricardo slef: One question... Doesn't FSF "lead" people towards the GFDL for documentation (instead of the GPL)? Just asking
10:36 davi GFDL add the attribution invariant sections, which IMHO does not add any value in our case
10:36 slef ricardo: yes, but we'd need at least dual-licensing with GPL; also, wikis have had an escape clause to CC-BY under the FDL.
10:36 slef ricardo: the escape clause I think means that even FSF acknowledges that FDL is not great for wikis.
10:36 ricardo slef / davi: OK. Thanks for the explanation  :)
10:37 slef ok, any other questions?
10:37 slef If not, I look forward to those listed voting on Friday-Sunday-ish.
10:38 davi left #koha
10:38 slef gmcharlt: I propose that we move on.
10:38 ricardo slef: So, if I'm reading that page correctly, no one has voted on it yet, right?
10:38 gmcharlt ricardo: correct
10:38 ricardo gmcharlt: OK, thanks
10:39 gmcharlt next are follow-ups from the last IRC meeting
10:39 gmcharlt let's try to keep this brief so that we can move on to the foundation followup
10:39 gmcharlt first up, Koha Tutorials
10:39 gmcharlt[…]ntation:tutorials
10:39 nengard I wrote a few up as gmcharlt and chris taught me how to do things, but we could use more - and we still havne't had any live demos
10:40 kmkale how so a live demo of a tutoril?
10:40 nengard I plan on putting together video tutorials once 3.2 is released with usage information to go along with the manual - but that's not quite what we're talking about here
10:40 kmkale * tutorial
10:40 nengard kmkale we talked about experts training us newbies using some sort of screen sharing app so that we could see how things were done
10:41 nengard and ask questions in a webinar format
10:41 kmkale yes I remember
10:41 kmkale thanks nengrad
10:41 hdl_laptop nengard: could Selenium tests be integrated in 'Tutorials' ?
10:41 nengard hdl_laptop - I'm not sure what a Selenium test is?
10:41 thd ricardo: They might only because the GPL is not a documentation license.  The problem comes when quoting code.  The GPL and GFDL are not compatible.
10:41 hdl_laptop It records the web activity of your browser
10:42 ricardo hdl_laptop:  ?
10:42 hdl_laptop so that it can be replayed afterwards.
10:42 hdl_laptop ricardo: yes
10:42 ricardo hdl_laptop: right, thanks
10:42 gmcharlt hdl_laptop: but for testing purposes - can you make the equivalent of a screencast of it for training somebody?
10:43 hdl_laptop when you replay slowly....
10:43 nengard hehe
10:43 hdl_laptop But you cannot see the mouse
10:43 nengard I'd say - anything is better than nothing - but more detailed videos - or a live webinar would be best to make people feel comfortable bout jumping in and editing code etc etc
10:44 sekjal nengard:  yes
10:44 sekjal and it would be a good chance for us to test some tools before KohaCon '10
10:44 rafael left #koha
10:44 nengard many people expressed an interest but a fear of not doing things right
10:44 kmkale yeh I am still trying to get my head around the templating sustem itself ;)
10:44 nengard and having an expert show them would make them feel better and get more people contributing/bug fixing
10:45 nengard that said - we all seem to be busy with getting 3.2 out - so I do understand the balancing act
10:45 nengard the wiki lists possible software and options and volunteers - so if you can volunteer - just set up a meeting and invite us all via the mailing lists :)
10:46 sekjal perhaps those of us particularly interested in getting tutored soon could get our institutions to agree to some kind of sponsorship...
10:46 sekjal I'll talk to my boss
10:47 nengard sekjal that would be great
10:47 sekjal no guarantees, of course; I don't have that kind of authority.  but we really want to get prepared to start contributing code
10:47 sekjal I've got a list of enhancement requests from my staff a couple pages long
10:48 nengard I think that's about it on tutorials - if we want to move on
10:48 gmcharlt next is '#
10:48 gmcharlt Bugzilla default assignees and maintenance
10:48 gmcharlt '
10:48 gmcharlt I think this one mostly depends on people volunteering to become default assignee for various components
10:49 gmcharlt as well as people volunteering to go in and look at bugs and test and close them out
10:49 nengard which ties into the previous topic :) if we all learned more we might feel comfortable doing that :) hehe
10:49 Ropuch That's so true ;>
10:50 kf nengard: I found your tutorial about how to make database changes very useful!
10:50 nengard thanks to chris and gmcharlt!! they gave me the instructions and I just put it on the wiki
10:50 kmkale one query on this. how can I run multiple versions of koha on a single machine?
10:51 kmkale separate datbases and apache sites?
10:51 gmcharlt kmkale: pretty much
10:51 nahuel kmkale, and koha-conf files
10:51 kmkale ok
10:52 gmcharlt ok, moving on unless there's more to say on BZ
10:52 reed kmkale, virtualbox or other virtual machine configs are pretty handy for that
10:52 gmcharlt next is "#
10:52 gmcharlt Mysql Schema Documentation
10:52 gmcharlt "
10:52 owen-away left #koha
10:52 kmkale reed :my laptop would die ;)
10:53 nengard is this:[…]cture.sql;hb=HEAD not enough?
10:53 nengard what do want on the schema documentation?
10:53 nengard I can probably add some of this to the manual/wiki but would need some help on certain tables
10:54 paul_p nengard: what would be usefull would be to add comments on the SQL itself
10:54 nengard paul_p I can do that too
10:54 paul_p (it didn't exist on mySQL 3, when koha 1 was released, but now, it's possible)
10:54 paul_p would be very usefull for beginners to know what tables / rows are done for
10:54 nengard maybe a new guidline - if you edit a sql table add comments to the table :)
10:55 nengard guideline
10:55 gmcharlt yeah, I think the mechanics were actually the main topic of dispute last meeting
10:55 slef gmcharlt: was this from tajoli?  Not here this meeting AFAICT.  Move to email list?
10:56 gmcharlt yes, this was tajoli  - and I agree to move this to the ML
10:56 gmcharlt he had started a thread on koha-devel after the Sept meeting
10:56 gmcharlt not sure if anybody followed up on it
10:56 davi joined #koha
10:56 gmcharlt ok, let's move on to the foundation
10:56 ricardo wb davi
10:56 nengard I'll follow up on it - like i said, i don't mind documenting the tables
10:56 nengard if we all agree on comments
10:57 gmcharlt nengard: just make sure not the duplicate work - tajoli has already done much of that
10:57 nengard okay - foundation - first - sorry all for the mistakes in the numbers and results - i gave you all the results from my open source survey
10:57 nengard okay gmcharlt
10:58 paul_p nengard: shame on you. I thought at 1st glance that 1500ppl answered the survey, that was awesome ! now, I see just 120, it's great, but not so much ;-)
10:58 ricardo nengard: No problem... I was finding it VERY strange to have more than 1000 people answering
10:58 nengard hehe
10:58 paul_p (note I immediatly understood the mistake when reading the result ;-) )
10:58 nengard herea re the notes/inks:[…]etingnotes09sep15
10:59 nengard I got a lot of comments on the survey itself
10:59 nengard and want you all to know I was learning how to use a new package - I'm going to recreate the survey taking all suggestions into account
10:59 nengard the point was to guage our opinions before reseraching the options
10:59 laurence left #koha
11:00 nengard I also think we decided on the mailing list that the option to build a foundation is the eventual goal - but not the goal of this original research
11:00 slef I need to analyse the raw data to see how it compares to the poll because it's not obvious from the PDF.  What conclusions would you draw?
11:01 nengard slef seems to me that most people wanted to form a foundation of our own - hence my comment on the error in making the survey the wya I did
11:02 nengard then the top 2 things people want the foundation to do are hold the trademark and then the domain
11:03 nengard anyone else?
11:03 nengard any comments/questions/ideas?
11:03 thd Yes, I think a poll needs to have explanatory wording and not presume that people understand the intent perfectly from previous discussion.
11:03 slef Is that an impression, or have you done a more robust analysis of the ranking?
11:03 nengard slef - that is based on the numbers given to the first and second rank questions
11:03 nengard based on the totals
11:04 slef ok, we'll see what comes out when we do some better stats tests on it
11:04 thd We have no knowledge if people are opposed to a foundation doing any of those things or whether people have no opinion.
11:04 paul_p just analysing the 1st is not enough, for sure
11:04 nengard hence the reason I sent all the results along with the PDF :)
11:05 slef nengard: yes, thanks for that
11:05 paul_p analysing 2 is better, but maybe we could analyse up to 5, with #1 = 10points, #2 = 8, #3=6 ...
11:05 thd If we have to many polls, however,  people will lose interest.
11:05 paul_p and sum() the result
11:05 slef paul_p: we can analyse them all with a proper stats package
11:05 nengard thd there is only supposed to be one more poll - a final poll after everyone researches the options
11:05 nengard the first was just to guage where we were before the research
11:05 nengard at least that's how i understood it
11:06 slef off the top of my head, I'm thinking ANOVA but I'd look at my reference books to check
11:06 gmcharlt thd: I think we have to decide that if somebody is not interested in responding to the poll and have no opinion on the matter, that we not give any great weight to that
11:06 nengard comparison chart here:[…]aheldbyfoundation
11:06 slef Anyway, I don't think I'll have that ready before Monday.
11:06 thd nengard: That is what I had thought but a statement made me doubt that.
11:06 gmcharlt we can make sure that the poll includes explicit options to do nothing
11:07 nengard okay - i can do that
11:07 thd gmcharlt: by not interested or opposed I was referring to particular goals for any foundation.
11:07 thd gmcharlt: Only ranking was a given option.
11:07 davi left #koha
11:07 nengard yes - the fact that you had to pick from 17 options was a bad design decision on my part
11:08 nengard and my lack of knowledge of how to limit it
11:08 nengard I have been given tips on how to improve that from those who know the software
11:08 slef thd: the doodle straw poll was for/against, but smaller audience and no "don't care" options.
11:08 ricardo Does anyone oppose asking LibLime for the current status of "their" KSF (Koha Software Foundation) on the Koha mailing list (with Cc to Joshua Ferraro)? Things like charter / statutes (if they have been set up). Or does anyone here already have that info, by now?
11:08 slef ricardo: not I.  Check it hasn't been done, though.
11:09 nengard marshall breeding send out a pdf of a registration of the foundation to the mailing lilst
11:09 nengard that's all we know
11:09 nengard so far
11:09 thd slef: yes, even I did not understand the overlap for the straw poll.
11:10 slef thd: the against/no-opinion overlap was because doodle is quick+poor.  I had hoped we'd drop the bottom few options from the ranking survey, but nengard and I didn't communicate well.
11:10 nengard we will do much better this time :)
11:11 gmcharlt so as I understand it, the next steps are (1) a new poll and (2) a foundation meeting on 19 October?
11:11 * nengard has a furry baby girl on her mouse (off topic - but cute)
11:11 slef maybe we should fix a time in a few days to draft the second poll while on IRC so more people can input?
11:12 nengard gmcharlt yes - but I'd like to see some more discussion on the mailing list or IRC so that people can explain why they think certain options make sense
11:12 nengard discussion is always going to get us better ideas than a poll
11:12 slef gmcharlt: I think we've drifted a few days, so if the new poll is also two weeks, 19 Oct is too soon.
11:12 gmcharlt ok, then it looks like we'll need a new date for a foundation-specific meeting
11:13 gmcharlt 10/28, perhaps?
11:13 slef nengard: it has been discussed pretty much to death over the last 3.5 years.  We need to divide on the possible actions and then build a consensus around the most viable of them.
11:13 nengard I'll be out of town and presenting on that date ... but it depends on the time and i guess as long as my opinion is in the poll i'll be okay
11:14 thd I have also discovered more options for a holding foundation
11:14 gmcharlt in any event, I gree with slef that assuming that we can agree on a course of action, we should try to avoid unlimited deadlines for dsicussion
11:14 gmcharlt nengard: of course, 27 or 29 October woudl be optins as well
11:14 nengard gmcharlt self agreed
11:14 nengard and I vote for the 29th
11:14 nengard I'll be at a hotel all day that day :) hehe
11:15 hdl_laptop ok for me.
11:15 slef thd: can you summarise to koha@lists soon, request for comments and we'll add any that gets really strong support
11:15 thd slef: Did you have an answer from SPI about transferring assets to a non-US non-profit?
11:15 nengard slef i'll email you and work closely with you on fixing the survey
11:15 slef thd: yes, see the link I eamiled to the list.
11:15 slef nengard: thanks
11:15 slef 29th looks OK for me
11:16 gmcharlt ok, 10/29 for the foundation IRC meeting
11:16 slef thd:[…]g.spi.general/917
11:16 gmcharlt and 4 Novmeber for the next general meeting
11:16 thd what times?
11:17 collum joined #koha
11:17 slef both were pencilled in at 19 UTC
11:17 gmcharlt keeping with our cycle, let's do 19:00 UTC+0 for the 4 November meeting
11:17 gmcharlt and 19:00 UTC+0 worked for the first foundation-forming meeting
11:17 slef nengard: any time better for you than others?
11:17 nengard it seems like 19 UTC worked well for the last foundation meeting - lots of people were there
11:18 nengard and that's noon in CA - I think :) so it would be find for me (that's where I'll be)
11:18 gmcharlt ok, we seem to have run through our agenda
11:18 gmcharlt anything else before I declare this meeting closed?
11:19 ricardo gmcharlt: One small thing...
11:20 ricardo Is content integrated in[…]:codingguidelines ?
11:20 gmcharlt no
11:20 Amit left #koha
11:20 kmkale thats past midnight in India
11:20 davi joined #koha
11:20 gmcharlt the version on the wiki is the authoritative version at present
11:20 davi sorry for the cuts
11:20 ricardo gmcharlt: OK, thanks for clearing that up
11:21 thd slef: The problem as you pointed out is that non-spendable assets are trapped in the US.
11:22 slef thd: no answer on that yet.  Needs chasing.  Feel free to nudge if you have a mo.
11:22 thd slef: I had a similar answer from the Software Freedom Conservancy
11:23 gmcharlt ok
11:23 thd slef: The only better answer I had from the Software Freedom Conservancy is that there is a French conservancy with which they are affiliated.
11:23 * gmcharlt encourages that discussion to take place on the mailing list, btw
11:23 gmcharlt I declare this meeting over
11:23 gmcharlt we'll meet again on the 29th for foundation-forming
11:23 gmcharlt and again on the 4th for the general IRC meeting
11:23 gmcharlt thanks to everybody
11:23 Joann ok. Good night all. Way past my bedtime :)
11:23 slef thd: how is that better?  SPI are affiliated with German and I forget what other association(s).
11:23 slef ok, thanks all
11:24 reed left #koha
11:24 ricardo gmcharlt: Great, many thanks (to you and all)... This meeting took much less time than I anticipated
11:24 ricardo Joann: Bedtime? Are you kidding? It's lunch time (12H23 PM). What do you mean by "Not in New Zealand"?  ;-)
11:24 thd slef: not trapping assets is good if the tax laws or rules in other jurisdictions do not trap them.
11:25 Joann Ricardo: cheeky man ... its almost half after midnight
11:25 thd slef: the US is prone to litigation culturally.  Other places can be safer.
11:26 vickiteal Breakfast time for me! Bye!
11:26 ricardo gmcharlt: "Mailing List" = right ?
11:26 Joann left #koha
11:26 vickiteal left #koha
11:27 ricardo OK. Lunch time now (really!) Take care everyone and thanks again  :)
11:27 ricardo is now known as ricardo_away
11:27 jwagner left #koha
11:28 * sekjal stretches.
11:28 sekjal time to get ready for work
11:28 hdl_laptop thx gmcharlt
11:28 custard and my thanks to those that decided this was a good time for a meeting :)
11:28 jransom left #koha
11:28 kmkale yeh this IS a good time for meetings
11:28 slef thd: but other places are accessible to fewer people and would get fewer tax-exempt donations.  Pros and cons either way.
11:28 brendan see you all in a bit
11:30 thd slef: yes, I agree there needs to be some presence in major countries but for the most important assets the US has a small but real risk.
11:31 thd slef: I assume that you know about the lawsuit over Zotero.
11:31 slef thd: I saw it, yes.
11:33 sekjal left #koha
11:33 thd slef: Thomson probably would have pursued that anywhere but the EU does not recognise software patents yet which reduces the scariest risk.
11:34 jwagner joined #koha
11:34 hdl_laptop is now known as hdl_lunch
11:35 thd The Zotero suit was over the DMCA I think and I know that France now has a similar law but at least not patents over software yet.
11:37 thd slef: How long does it take to have a project accepted at SPI?
11:40 xercode-Juan left #koha
11:44 davi I do not know the background too much, but I think SPI would be the best option if we will not create our own association from the start
11:47 jdavidb joined #koha
11:49 thd davi: SPI certainly has the best governance process and the most prominence but I am not persuaded that best governance is enough.
11:50 davi no comment
11:50 thd davi: I think that we have no bad choices really.
11:51 thd davi: Why do you think SPI the best choice?
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11:53 thd davi: I will not pester you for not being willing to state the reasons for your assertions but the issues need discussing on the mailing list as part of an informed discussion.
11:53 slef thd: at least two weeks.  Depends if you hit legal questions.
11:54 slef then it is a function of lawyer time
11:54 thd slef: that is very speedy.
11:55 slef thd: they've done it quite a lot now.
11:56 thd slef: the biggest negative for the Conservancy is that they have a 3-6 month waiting list so that they can give every project enough attention.
11:56 davi left #koha
11:56 thd slef: the majority picked form an independent formation now.
11:56 slef thd: consequence of being lawyer-led and more conservative, do you think?
11:57 slef thd: have you done a better analysis than the summary in the PDF?
11:57 thd slef: no its a question of resources for an all volunteer organisation.
11:57 thd slef: Well I read what people said in the comments in the raw data.
11:58 slef !!! SPI is an all-volunteer organisation too... except for the bookkeeper who I think gets paid
11:58 slef not sure if they were temporary though
11:59 slef IMO the biggest negative for the Conservancy is that it's accountable only to the US government, not its users.
12:00 slef I'll wait to see how strong the view on the independent formation was until I read the data myself.  Currently summarising the meeting.
12:01 thd slef: I have yet to answer you on the list but I think you would have more influence on the Conservancy than on SPI because of the relative sizes of the organisations.
12:01 slef I suspect we may need to focus on that a bit in the second survey to see if it is viable (who will donate time, money or other things?)
12:01 Amit joined #koha
12:02 thd slef: I am concerned that the form a foundation now option is a choice of the uninformed.
12:02 slef thd: idealism may be more important than speed to some.  After all, we have dragged this out over 3 years now.
12:03 thd slef: How long do you think it would take to agree upon all the bylaws etc. for an independent foundation?
12:04 slef thd: depends if we can agree on using a particular set of model rules.  If so, probably a few months?
12:04 thd slef: I mean how long do you think it would take 165 or more people to agree?
12:04 thd Exactly.
12:04 slef 165 people spread around the world, no less
12:04 slef if we could get them all in one room, probably two afternoons would suffice
12:04 thd form a foundation now is really form a foundation later option
12:05 slef but you know, all of the interim options have some drawback with the asset handling
12:05 thd all the options have drawbacks certainly.
12:06 slef I should link that gmane discussion from the cons of the chart... going to
12:06 thd and actually IFLA probably is not set up to hold any assets of affiliated organisations.
12:06 thd slef I have updated the text page but not the chart yet.
12:07 thd The text page has more information than could ever fit in the chart people should see both.
12:08 francharb left #koha
12:10 thd slef: do you know why SPI discourages people from assigning code to it?
12:10 francharb joined #koha
12:10 slef thd: not for sure.  I think it's because it preserves contributor autonomy.
12:11 slef thd: as the recent French case[…]009-09-22.en.html shows, it's no longer only the copyright holder who can enforce public licensing.
12:12 thd slef: The GNU project gives a grant back to all developers which people at SPI know and is the right way to assign copyright preserving autonomy of contributors.
12:13 slef thd: two problems with that.  Firstly, copyright assignment is not recognised globally (moral rights in most Roman-style legal systems); secondly, it assumes that copyright assignment is worthwhile.
12:14 slef thd: the FSFEurope's FLA can address the first problem; the second is to be decided.
12:14 slef now I go lunch.  meeting summary is on the wiki
12:14 thd slef: You do not need to be a copyright holder to defend your rights but you need to be an interested party..
12:14 francharb left #koha
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12:26 gmcharlt slef: I have emailed you the email addresses
12:32 nahuel gmcharlt, bug 2688 was not applied on head :(
12:32 munin` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=2688 normal, PATCH-Sent, ---,, NEW, does not reports connection failure
12:32 nahuel I don't find it on git log
12:34 gmcharlt nahuel: git log | grep 'Report to user the connections errors to z39.50 server, like timeout(10007), and refused(10000).'
12:34 gmcharlt shows that it *was* applied
12:34 nahuel arf ok
12:34 nahuel scuse me :)
12:36 brendan left #koha
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12:40 kmkale bye all
12:40 kmkale left #koha
12:42 custard night.
12:43 custard left #koha
12:46 owen joined #koha
12:50 jdavidb mornin', owen.
12:50 owen Hi jdavidb
12:50 * owen is reading through the meeting log
12:50 francharb1 left #koha
12:51 owen chris++ for the new #koha log
12:51 jwagner owen, I don't think you missed much.  Except for the part where we stopped logging and voted to make you responsible for all the new bug reports :-)
12:51 kf gmcharlt: checking on my bugs right now - can you perhaps check for bug 3559? chris sent a patch for this, but I think it was not pushed yet
12:51 munin` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3559 major, PATCH-Sent, ---,, ASSIGNED, Zotero does not work on opac detail page with xslt on
12:52 kf hi jwagner - how are you?
12:52 francharb joined #koha
12:52 owen jwagner: I'll be sure to check the log for "lost time" ;)
12:52 jwagner sehr gut, kf!
12:52 jwagner owen, they probably edited it out!
12:53 kf jwagner: schön zu hören / nice to hear that :)
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13:02 hdl_lunch ricardo : are you using QueryAutoTruncate ?
13:03 Amit left #koha
13:13 owen Holy Bugzilla activity explosion, Batman!
13:14 jwagner nahuel, have you decided to single-handedly fix everything???
13:14 nahuel what ?
13:14 nahuel jwagner, what do you mean ?
13:15 jwagner All the bug reports you've been closing :-)
13:15 nahuel héhé, It's all my assigned bugs that have already been pushed
13:15 nahuel I'm verifying that they are cleaned applied
13:15 nahuel and "fix" them
13:16 nahuel set as fixed
13:16 jwagner Darn.  I thought you were going to fix everything that was outstanding :-)
13:16 nahuel But i'm seeing that there is a huge list of non-applied patches
13:20 jwagner Speaking of bugzilla, I'd like to run a report that shows me every bug I'm cc'd on, but I can't figure out how.  I tried going under Reports, but when I select the CC etc. contains field, it tells me You didn't define any axes to plot.  How do I set one up?  I want to be able to keep an eye on all the bugs I'm monitoring, not just the ones I've reported.
13:21 ricardo_away is now known as ricardo
13:23 ricardo hdl_lunch: Hi... Apparently yes: "QueryAutoTruncate" is set to ON (but I think that's the default because I don't remember ever changing it)
13:24 hdl_lunch mmm... I guess we should disable that when NoZebra is used. Unless it really is usefull for you.
13:25 ricardo hdl_lunch: For me, there's no problem... I don't even know what "QueryAutoTruncate" /query truncation is :D
13:26 ricardo hdl_lunch:  but is there any problem with my proposed patch (adding the "kw" to that line)?
13:26 hdl_lunch QueryAutoTruncate is to automatically look for operands as truncated words.
13:26 hdl_lunch is now known as hdl
13:27 hdl yes. would make some trouble in zebra. Since it would disable autotruncation for general searches ;)
13:31 ricardo hdl: Hmmm... And what about adding an additional condition to that "if (QueryAutoTruncate) ON" condition is enabled to check if Zebra is enabled (and only compare also with "kw" if Zebra is NOT enabled)?
13:33 hdl There is already such a condition (or was
13:33 hdl )
13:34 hdl if ( C4::Context->preference("NoZebra") ) {
13:34 hdl $stemming      = 0;
13:34 hdl $weight_fields = 0;
13:34 hdl $fuzzy_enabled = 0;
13:34 hdl }
13:34 hdl We could add $auto_truncation=0
13:34 hdl would it be ok for you ?
13:35 hdl line 999 of C4/
13:38 ricardo hdl: Sorry... phone
13:43 ricardo is now known as ricardo_phone
13:45 thd slef: are you back?
13:45 slef thd: yes
13:46 thd slef: What is the license for Bugzilla contributions?
13:47 slef thd: should be GPL, because they're derived works of the koha code.
13:48 slef the grey area will be enhancements which are more contribs than patches... let me guess: it's not stated on
13:48 thd slef: Is there any statement about licensing for
13:49 thd slef: most bug reports have no code attached.
13:50 slef thd: maybe not, but could still not be created without having read any of koha's code.
13:51 ricardo_phone is now known as ricardo
13:52 slef there should be an agreement offered on[…]createaccount.cgi but there is not.  Yet Another Thing To Fix.
13:52 ricardo hdl: I think that change would be OK, but then I suggest that you also add a change to the System Preferences code to refuse enabling "QueryAutoTruncate" and that explains that it may not be enabled if NOT using Zebra
13:52 slef "you can contact the maintainer of this Bugzilla installation at" - oh really?
13:52 slef gmcharlt: chris: can either of you update that?
13:54 thd slef: gmcharlt had provided a link to a dump of the Bugzilla database for you in the same message as one about the wiki for identifying contributors presumably.
13:54 owen slef: gmcharlt said at one time that he would contact Clay at LibLime to get that changed, I don't know if that happened or not.
13:55 gmcharlt slef: I've updated the BZ admin email address
13:55 thd own: do you mean changing the lack of a license statement on
13:55 slef thd: I forget the reason for the dump.  I'll check, but let's eat the licensing-check elephant one bite at a time.
13:55 gmcharlt I don't recall that licensing content in has come up before
13:55 gmcharlt or at any rate, nobody had made any requests
13:56 gmcharlt but putting in an agreement right away is putting the cart before the horse
13:56 thd gmcharlt:  Most bug reports could be quoted as fair use without problem in any case.
13:56 slef I'm pretty sure that patches are implicitly licensed under the GPL by virtue of being offered to a code-is-GPL project.  Each step away from that is a bit less safe, though.
13:57 gmcharlt presumably there should at least be any email to the mailing lists stating that we want to apply an explicit license
13:57 slef thd: WE DO NOT HAVE FAIR USE.  Sorry for shouting, but USians need to recognise that it's a local quirk.
13:57 owen In what context is the licensing an issue? Migrating the database to another host? Something else?
13:57 |Lupin| joined #koha
13:57 gmcharlt and a vote
13:57 |Lupin| hi again
13:57 slef global projects cannot rely on US Fair Use
13:57 thd slef: do you not have a good approximation which is understandably less permissive in the UK?
13:58 slef thd: no, we have Fair Dealing which is completely useless for most people.
13:59 thd slef: Why is it useless for most people?
13:59 gmcharlt owen: I'm not sure.  Of course, practically speaking the issue would come up only in the context of somebody asserting copyright of the entire bugs database or for individual bugs in a way that is meant to restrict access
13:59 slef thd: it allows pretty much no commercial use IIRC.  It's a plaything for rich people and academics.
13:59 ricardo @quote search ricardo
13:59 munin` ricardo: 2 found: #13: "<atz> ricardo: ask and ye shall receive......." and #15: "<|Lupin|>ricardo: you are like the Portuguese..."
13:59 ricardo @quote get #15
13:59 munin` ricardo: (quote get [<channel>] <id>) -- Gets the quote with id <id> from the quote database for <channel>. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent in the channel itself.
13:59 ricardo @quote get 15
13:59 munin` ricardo: Quote #15: "<|Lupin|>ricardo: you are like the Portuguese Hitchcock!!" (added by wizzyrea at 02:58 PM, July 10, 2009)
14:00 slef thd: and look up the Copyright Designs and Patents Act to see the legislation text.
14:00 thd slef: You need  to exercise your vote and fix copyright law in the UK :)
14:01 slef thd: I'm trying.  Should I become a pirate?[…]party-membership/
14:01 ricardo @quote add <owen> Holy Bugzilla activity explosion, Batman!
14:01 munin` ricardo: The operation succeeded.  Quote #38 added.
14:01 ricardo @quote get 38
14:01 munin` ricardo: Quote #38: "<owen> Holy Bugzilla activity explosion, Batman!" (added by ricardo at 02:00 PM, October 07, 2009)
14:01 ricardo Perfect!  ;-)
14:01 gmcharlt slef: only if a free eye patch comes with party membership
14:01 thd gmcharlt++
14:05 thd slef: I think that abolishing copyright as some pirates advocate would discourage cooperation by some over software and take away the trust which people have with others whom they do not know  in sharing with copyleft licenses.
14:06 slef surely you use copyleft licences when you *don't* trust others?
14:08 thd slef: I know my words were not quite right
14:10 thd but yes copyleft helps people to trust those they might not have reason to trust if copyleft would be ineffective in a world without copyright protection.
14:11 magnusenger left #koha
14:15 |Lupin| is there a canonical way in Koha scripts to find out the current date with year, month, day and time in separate fields, please ?
14:18 slef I think I've seen code simply using localtime() (man perlfunc) but that was old and crufty code so might not be the best way.
14:19 schuster joined #koha
14:20 |Lupin| slef: ok, thanks
14:20 ricardo For all the git gurus here...
14:21 ricardo In .git/config I have:
14:21 ricardo [branch "3.0.x"]         remote = origin         merge = refs/heads/3.0.x
14:21 ricardo Did a "git pull". Got "Already up-to-date". But if I do "git log --pretty=fuller" I only get changes until 30 Sep 2009
14:22 ricardo Ah, one more note... Here's the setup for "origin":
14:22 ricardo [remote "origin"]         url =         fetch = +refs/heads/*:refs/remotes/origin/*
14:22 ricardo What am I doing wrong here? :-/
14:22 thd I have forgotten how to avoid backreference $1 bing mistake for undefined backreference $10 in s/(something)/$10/
14:23 slef ${1} and ${10} I think
14:23 thd ${1}0
14:23 slef yep
14:24 slef ricardo: git branch -l says you're on which branch?
14:25 ricardo slef: " * 3.0.x "
14:28 slef nengard: "No surveys available; please create one."
14:28 slef ricardo: can you see origin/3.0.x on git branch -l -a ?  Can you try git:// or not?
14:29 nengard slef - hmm - okay off to poke at permissions again
14:29 slef nengard: ta
14:30 nengard slef refresh
14:30 ricardo slef: "git : - / / " What's that?
14:33 Nate left #koha
14:33 ricardo slef: "git show origin/3.0.x" also only shows commits until 30-Sep-2009
14:34 ricardo slef (and others): What's the URL that you have for "origin" ?
14:38 slef ricardo: url = git://
14:38 |Lupin| ricardo: do you really need one ? doesn't origin/master work ?
14:38 slef ricardo: I'll pull and see what I see on 3.0.x.
14:38 ricardo |Lupin|: I need to also follow the 3.0.x branch
14:38 ricardo slef: Thanks. I appreciate it  :)
14:39 slef nengard: worksforme
14:39 paul_p git hint: if you want to see on which branch(es) a patch has been applied : git branch -a --contains <commitSHA>
14:39 paul_p ( did I say I love git ? )
14:40 ricardo paul_p: I, on the other hadn think that I have a love-hate relationship with git, eheh
14:40 paul_p yep, it's because there are too much things to learn. I had the same problem at the beginning. Now, it's better
14:41 paul_p (the opposite as in real love affairs: at the beginning, the woman has only qualities, after some years...)
14:41 ricardo paul_p: LOL!
14:41 paul_p (married 15 years ago)
14:42 ricardo (One more quote to add... On second thougt, never mind. I don't want to be sued by Paul ;-)
14:43 paul_p (note I still love my wife, definetly, but I see now she's not perfect. Fortunatly, she sees i'm not perfect either ;-) )
14:43 ricardo paul_p: Yeah... And there are still some people say that eye sight gets *worse* with aging. Pfff....  ;-)
14:44 slef ; git log -1 '--pretty=oneline' origin/3.0.x
14:44 slef ba72e844b5c5197a9bfe8ea89c92b76d94f7e7e2 BugFixing  : 3306
14:44 slef
14:48 ricardo slef: Thanks... Could this problem be due to me having to clone over http protocol instead of over the git protocol? It doesn't seem likely, but still...
14:49 ricardo slef: For that git query, I get:
14:49 ricardo 8316fc92ff9cd56144dadaec262cdc8c376fc236 German and Italian updates
14:52 slef ricardo: actually, it seems likely to me.  http protocol on a dumb http server requires a special git update-server-info command to be run after push. I don't know if that is run on
14:52 slef ricardo: can you use git protocol?
14:53 ricardo slef: Ah... Thanks for the info. No, here I can't use the git protocol, I'm afraid. I'm behind a "Big Bad Firewall"
14:53 slef ricardo: then you need someone who else can check http
14:53 slef either another http user or someone who knows the server
14:53 slef or you could try one of the http mirrors on the wiki
14:54 slef see if that gives different results
14:54 ricardo slef: right. Thanks for the info. Will check that  :)
14:55 ricardo OK. First conclusion: koha.git for "http" is not getting updated:
14:55 ricardo
14:55 ricardo "8316fc92ff9cd56144dadaec262cdc8c376fc236refs/heads/3.0.x"
14:56 thd where is the license statement for the Koha manuals?
14:56 ricardo That matches the most recent commit that I get with the "http" protocol (and that makes sense)
14:56 Ropuch Can you recommend me a free forum engine?
15:01 slef Ropuch: it depends what you are trying to do.  phpbb is popular.
15:02 thd nengard: Do your Koha manuals have a copyright license statement?
15:02 slef I'm sure the manuals used to have a copyright license statement.
15:03 slef and were GPL 2
15:03 slef sorry, 2+
15:04 Ropuch slef: I'm thinking about phpBB or smf, I want to integrate forum with modx
15:04 slef links to GPL 2.0 from "Distributed under the GNU GPL license"
15:04 Ropuch Guess I'll try both
15:04 slef Ropuch: smf is evil, isn't it?
15:04 Ropuch Don't know yet ;>
15:04 slef Ropuch: as in, you're not allowed to modify it and share those mods
15:05 DarrellUlm joined #koha
15:05 ricardo Hi DarrellUlm ! :)
15:06 DarrellUlm left #koha
15:06 slef thd: I think the rule of thumb may be "if it moved to a server, the copyright notice probably got lost in the move". :-(
15:06 ricardo Bye Darrell ...
15:06 DarrellUlm joined #koha
15:06 slef Hi DarrellUlm!  Is ricardo scary?
15:06 ricardo slef: Me? :-0
15:07 nengard thd - yes the gpl - somewhere - or it used to - either way when i move it I'll put one on it
15:07 thd slef: the website where the manuals are now has GPL 2 license designation at the bottom without an "or later version" invoking statement.
15:08 thd nengard: do not forget the or later version at your option part.
15:08 ricardo owen: Are you here?
15:08 owen Yes
15:09 ricardo owen: Good :)  I have a debugging challenge for you... Private please
15:09 nengard thd i can't update the footer - but i'll put that on the updated versions
15:09 slef thd: where's the licensing notice on by the way?
15:10 slef nengard: make sure you can prove your employers consented and we don't get work-made-for-hire blowback from anyone.
15:10 thd slef: have a look at the bottom of an old experiment
15:10 DarrellUlm left #koha
15:11 DarrellUlm joined #koha
15:11 slef thd: complete, but one wrong icon and allows non-free-software licensing.
15:11 thd slef: I had not thought about that much.
15:11 thd which icon is wrong?
15:12 slef thd: showing a CC-BY-SA for FDL
15:12 |Lupin| I'm wondering: when a text such as a book title is inserted in an XML document, as a node text, does it have to be escaped somehow ?
15:12 thd slef: that is a DokuWiki formatting problem
15:12 slef |Lupin|: depends what it contains.  Might be safest to put it in a CDATA but that break some things.
15:13 thd the logos are underneath the text statement.
15:13 slef oic
15:14 thd I could not find one for GFDL but I wish that FSF would get on with releasing GSFDL so we could discard GFDL in real use.
15:16 DarrellUlm left #koha
15:16 |Lupin| slef: well it's more or less regular text I'd say. It may contain apostrophes, quoes and the like
15:16 thd However even the simple license will not likely be GPL compatible which is a problem for quoting source code.
15:18 wizzyrea hdl, did you ever commit anything for bug 1981?
15:18 thd slef: answering your question about my website better.  There is a context sensitive credits page with relevant licensing information.
15:18 munin` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=1981 enhancement, P3, ---,, NEW, Renewal limit should be in circ matrix
15:19 wizzyrea (the report would indicate not, was curious as to why)
15:19 slef thd: I looked at that and didn't see any permissions for the site content.
15:20 DarrellUlm joined #koha
15:20 thd I had been waiting for the GSFDL but I might be waiting a very long time.
15:21 slef I didn't realise SFDL wasn't out yet
15:22 thd slef: GSFDL has been in draft form only for a few years now.
15:22 thd slef: I expect that there will be an upgrade path from GFDL to GSFDL in some later version of GFDL.
15:23 thd ... provided the work has no invariant sections.
15:23 kf wizzyrea: I saw that in biblibres test installation today, so I think we will get it in 3.2
15:24 hdl wizzyrea: I think nahuel commited that on 3.2
15:24 owen Hi DarrellUlm
15:24 wizzyrea sweet ty
15:24 slef thd: anyway, I was using your site to suggest that even the best of the koha-linked .coms doesn't permissively license its website, so maybe we shouldn't be surprised that the .com-hosted koha sites haven't quite got it right
15:25 hdl i thought it would be taken when biblibre branch wil be merged
15:25 thd slef: we were discussing the site
15:25 DarrellUlm left #koha
15:25 thd sites
15:25 wizzyrea is hosted by a US company
15:25 slef thd: yes, but you're missing the point.
15:26 thd I recognise the point.
15:26 kf wizzyrea: another item on my wish list: number of days before renewal is possible in circ matrix
15:27 kf wizzyrea: but duration of renewal period would be great too, only circ matrix will get bigger and bigger
15:27 slef thd: I suggest the .com hosting probably got it wrong because we all didn't hold them to account on it at startup, rather than the content being mislicensed necessarily.
15:28 thd slef: footers are designed to be largely ignored.
15:28 wizzyrea yea, e just added it
15:28 wizzyrea kf, we added a note to 1981
15:28 kf wizzyrea: thinking about adding mine as a note too, but perhaps better add a new bug for this
15:29 wizzyrea kf: that would probably be better
15:29 thd slef: Which is why the credits link on my website is at both the top and the bottom of every page.
15:29 slef thd: courts disagree.  I was looking at email footer case law earlier today for another reason.
15:29 thd slef: legally the bottom is fine
15:30 thd slef: I want people to notice the link and want to make it as prominent as I reasonably can.
15:31 kf wizzyrea: selfcheck machines got installed last week in our project library - thx for your help again. we ended up with deactivating renewals, but I think patrons will get more and better information in opac anyway.
15:31 wizzyrea :D awesome!
15:31 wizzyrea are they working well?
15:32 kf so far yes, but only librarian-tested
15:33 kf students will get chance to test and break them next week :)
15:36 owen hdl still around?
15:36 kf bug 3694
15:36 hdl yes
15:36 munin` Bug[…]w_bug.cgi?id=3694 critical, P5, ---,, NEW, Items being cataloged are not appearing in the catalog
15:37 owen hdl: ricardo and I are discussing a problem in 3.0.x in which the wrong version of a jquery plugin is being loaded under some circumstances
15:38 kf hm, its a waldo library
15:38 owen hdl: The result is that any keypress in the staff client login form causes a js redirect to
15:38 hdl wow. this is critical
15:39 gmcharlt kf, hdl: may simply be a glitch
15:39 hdl I knew that jquery change would be a problem for 3.0.x
15:40 gmcharlt (re 3694)
15:41 hdl 2 solutions : either stick to old jquery, or make a "last minute change" and apply the changes for jquery upgrade.
15:42 Kivutar left #koha
15:42 owen hdl, why did you expect problems from the jquery upgrade?
15:43 owen More details about ricardo's experience: When logging in from the English version, the correct version of the plugin is loaded and the problem doesn't occur. If you choose the Portuguese translation, the wrong version of the plugin is loaded and the problem does occur.
15:44 ricardo owen: What would be the correct version of the plugin, BTW?
15:44 gmcharlt kf: I've updated that bug to send a response to Warren
15:44 gmcharlt suggesting that they check with their support vendor
15:44 gmcharlt most likely, it's just a glitch getting on the cron list
15:44 kf gmcharlt: thx :) I just was not sure how to answer the bug
15:45 hdl owen: what about disabling hotkeys ?
15:45 hdl owen: oh.... This could be a translation update problem.
15:45 hdl then.
15:46 hdl ricardo: have you updated all your translations after rebase ?
15:46 ColinC joined #koha
15:46 ricardo hdl: I think I ran " pt-PT"... I might try to run it again. But given that owen is also getting this problem, I'm thinking it may not be the problem only with my setup
15:46 hdl owen: Because I had some bugs here and there (table sorter or highlight plugins which changed names.)
15:47 ricardo hdl: OK. I can create a new git branch and get updates for it... Should i run " pt-PT" on that branch, after doing that?
15:47 hdl mmmm... Is there the same problem on biblibre_3.0.x ?
15:48 ricardo hdl: I don't know... I don't follow "biblibre_3.0.x", just regular "3.0.x"
15:48 hdl yes.
15:48 ricardo hdl: OK
15:48 owen ricardo: I could duplicate your problem *before* a fresh rebase, but now I can't
15:48 hdl but is a simple official head.
15:49 ricardo hdl: Cool :)
15:49 ricardo Let me reboot that machine
15:52 Colin left #koha
15:52 ricardo BRB
15:53 davi joined #koha
15:56 |Lupin| Which perl function would you guys use to xml-quote a string ?
15:59 schuster In the template/pl item type was added for opac-detail - my question - is there a way to get it to sort on location by default rather than the item type?
16:00 schuster Looks like some java script?
16:01 owen schuster: Yes, it's javascript, and the default sort column is part of the template
16:01 owen I can't remember the history here...was Location previously the first column in the table, then Item type was added?
16:01 DarrellUlm joined #koha
16:01 owen If so, then Item type probably just took the place of Location as the default sorted column
16:01 schuster Yes that is correct on the history...  Item type was added in front of the location.
16:02 owen which case the original intent was to sort by Location by default, and it just didn't get updated.
16:02 schuster that is correct and it is driving the librarians crazy...
16:02 owen Of course, sorting Location by default was probably something I or someone else made up off the top of our heads :)
16:03 schuster Prefered as most item types for the book are the same so sorting on it is almost useless.
16:03 * nengard lunching
16:03 schuster You can click on title to sort, but that is an extra step and the kids/librarians don't want to do that.
16:03 schuster sorry location
16:04 ricardo Back
16:05 ricardo OK... Ran " pt-PT" in /root/kohaclone/misc/translator .... Now, English translation asks to run "Web Installer" again (probably some database update... will run it)
16:05 ricardo Yep: "We are upgrading from Koha to, you must update your database "
16:06 paul_p left #koha
16:06 DarrellUlm left #koha
16:07 schuster sortList: [[0,0]] - would this be the place to play in the template? or is there another place to adust which column is first?
16:07 owen Yes
16:07 pastebot "ricardo" at pasted "Some warnings on Web Installer for the 3.0.x branch (update database structure)" (11 lines) at
16:08 ricardo Nope... The problem remains
16:08 owen schuster: You'd change that to [[1,0]] to sort on the second column
16:08 schuster So what would I do to get it to sort on the second column? - sortList: [[1,1]] ?
16:08 ricardo But today it's only happening it for me in:
16:08 schuster Thanks!  I'll try that.
16:08 ricardo (1) Internet Explorer 7 (in Windows)
16:09 owen schuster: sortList: [[1,1]] would sort on the second column, descending order.
16:09 ricardo (2) Firefox 2.0.x (in a different computer running Linux)
16:09 schuster Cool learned something today about tmpl!
16:09 ricardo Not happening in (3) Firefox 3.5.3 (in the same Windows computer as 1)
16:09 owen schuster: You learned about the jquery tablesorter plugin!
16:10 owen ricardo: Have you cleared the cache on your IE7 and FF2 browsers?
16:11 ricardo owen: Yesterday I did and didn't make a difference. Let me try it again today (for IE7)
16:11 owen And by the way schuster, it looks like opac-detail has always been set up like that, the only difference is whether you have the OPACDisplayItypes preference turned on.
16:13 ricardo owen: Yep, in IE 7 the problem remains, after clearing the cache and reopening the browser
16:14 chris_n2 joined #koha
16:15 ricardo owen: Are we using "jsquery.hotkeys.min.js"? In that case could we test it to change to "jsquery.hotkeys.js"? Or vice-versa? Or wouldn't changes in the jsquery file make any difference?
16:16 ricardo left #koha
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16:17 ricardo joined #koha
16:18 owen ricardo: I suspect a problem with your installation or with your translated template
16:18 ricardo owen: Probably...
16:19 ricardo owen: Any particular files / sections that I should look for?
16:19 ricardo I think hdl mentioned "" yesterday
16:19 owen Since the official version of the jquery plugin for 3.0.x is jsquery.hotkeys.min.js, the presence of jsquery.hotkeys.js in your translated templates suggests a problem with the translation process?
16:19 owen But I don't really know.
16:22 chris_n left #koha
16:23 hdl owen: ricardo feel free to file the bug and bug me
16:23 ricardo hdl: LOL!
16:24 DarrellUlm joined #koha
16:24 DarrellUlm Hello Again
16:27 CGI282 joined #koha
16:27 DarrellUlm Hello
16:27 ricardo OK... I'm being deceived for something...
16:28 DarrellUlm What?
16:28 CGI282 left #koha
16:29 ricardo owen /hdl:  This is still redirecting to "" although the "staff-global.js" file is the default one that doesn't redirect to that URL but to the /cgi-bin/ (or something). Weird.... I have to see if there's other "staff-global.js" file at work here
16:29 * nengard back
16:29 hdl OK... I'm being deceived for something.. ?????
16:30 ricardo hdl: Actually, I meant that "I'm being deceived BY something"  :)
16:30 DarrellUlm I think I messed the meeting.
16:30 hdl disappointed or dismissed/puzzled ?
16:31 DarrellUlm Missed!
16:31 DarrellUlm I was called away serveral times. Normal.
16:31 |Lupin| see you later, all, have a nice day
16:31 hdl[…]day&recall=recall
16:31 |Lupin| left #koha
16:32 hdl mmm.That link is broken
16:32 DarrellUlm What time was the meeting supposed to happen EST? :)
16:32 owen DarrellUlm: The meeting was at 6AM EST
16:32 DarrellUlm Any progress?
16:32 owen
16:32 DarrellUlm Thank you!
16:35 jdavidb left #koha
16:36 kf ok, time to leave - bye all :)
16:36 kf left #koha
16:36 ricardo Easy question for the find / grep gurus here: how do I get a list of "*.js" files in current directory and below that have the string "" ?
16:36 DarrellUlm left #koha
16:38 chris_n2 ricardo: maybe 'grep -En "sapo\.pt" *.js'
16:38 chris_n2 is now known as chris_n
16:39 ricardo chris_n: I think that the fact that the shell expands the wildcards in the current directory will make that NOT work for the subdirectories
16:39 chris_n ricardo: right so try this: 'grep -En "sapo\.pt" *' | grep \.js
16:40 schuster owen - I don't have OPACDisplayItypes???
16:40 schuster This all came about in the august update for me.
16:40 ricardo chris_n: Cool, thanks.  :)  Let me test it
16:40 chris_n ricardo: or recursively: 'grep -Ern "sapo\.pt" *' | grep \.js
16:41 chris_n correcting single quotes: 'grep -Ern "sapo\.pt" * | grep \.js'
16:42 owen schuster: Sorry, that was outdated info
16:42 ricardo chris_n: find . -iname '*.js' | xargs grep 'sapo' -sl
16:43 ricardo chris_n:  this works... Based on:
16:43 ricardo Linux: Find a string in files and display just the filename
16:43 ricardo Linux: Find a string in files and display just the filename
16:43 ricardo[…]_string_files.php
16:43 ricardo chris_n: Didn't test your solution(s) yet. Sorry!
16:43 ricardo chris_n: But thanks for helping  :)
16:45 schuster whew...  Thought my system was worse off than I thought!
16:45 owen schuster: Item type will display on your detail page if you have item-level item types turned on.
16:46 chris_n ricardo: np; beware that <grep 'sapo'> will find every instance of the four letter combination rather than just those followed by <.pt> (if that matters to you)
16:47 * chris_n wonders about schuster's thinking ;-)
16:47 ricardo chris_n: *nod*
16:47 ricardo owen: I'm starting to think I'm being bitten by our Proxy (maybe it's also caching pages)
16:49 schuster Ah - interesting - If ON, enables Item-level Itemtype / Issuing Rules - so does that impact holds as well?
16:50 schuster Thought my system was worse off than I thought - self hosted - and we have been doing development so this next community upgrade should be interesting.
16:50 owen schuster: item-level holds are enabled separately if that's what you mean
16:50 owen OPACItemHolds
16:52 schuster hmm may play with turning that off and on and see what happens...  Now if only was able to apply in the staff client on the detail.tmpl I'd be in business!  Making even more librarians happy!
16:52 ricardo owen: Yep... It's either the IE cache that's not being deleted by "Delete all" or our proxy that's being a bit too "cache friendly"
16:53 owen schuster: It could certainly be added. I know some libraries have problems with the tablesorter because they have huge amounts of items and the tablesorter bogs down loading of the page
16:53 schuster what is interesting to me is the detail.tmpl is not sorted, but the additem.tmpl screen is...
16:54 owen Not sorted, or not sorted in a way that is discernable?
16:55 schuster not sorted in a discernable way - possibly by added?  but when you click on edit items - they are sorted by homelocation.
16:56 owen Yeah, probably by added.
17:17 ColinC left #koha
17:22 pianohacker joined #koha
17:22 pianohacker hello
17:24 owen Hi pianohacker
17:24 pianohacker hi owen
17:24 pianohacker were you here for the meeting?
17:24 owen Nope
17:31 ricardo left #koha
17:40 chris morning
17:40 pianohacker good morning, chris
17:40 * chris fell asleep about 20 mins into the meeting and just woke up again now
17:41 pianohacker you are a valiant soul for at least trying :)
17:44 ricardo joined #koha
17:45 ricardo I'm back
17:45 ricardo owen: Still here?
17:45 owen Yes
17:45 ricardo owen: Cool  :)  Bad news: the redirect to http://koha30xman.kohademo.inf[…]talogue/ is still happening  :(
17:45 ricardo (at least in Firefox... the local cache of IE here is acting "weird-beyond-belief")
17:47 brendan left #koha
17:48 ricardo owen:  OK... Also "tamed" the cache in IE browser. Yep, redirect still happening
17:48 chris its not the redirect that is the problem (and its not even redirecting)
17:49 chris its that the form is being submitted
17:50 chris by any keypress, rather than just by ctrl-q
17:50 ricardo chris: Hi Chris! Isn't the FIRST redirect caused by "location.href" in "staff-global.js"? After that it may be submitted because, as you say, the form action is the "self" page (and after you're redirected to well, the form that's submitted is also
17:51 chris its not a redirect
17:51 chris the js is telling it to go to that page
17:51 ricardo chris: OK... redirect in that sense ("js is telling it to go to that page")
17:52 chris yep, but redirect means something quite different
17:52 ricardo chris: You mean like a "302" HTTP Response Header?
17:52 chris redirect is when you go to one page/location and are automatically sent to another
17:53 chris this one only sends you to a another location when you type a key in the username or password field
17:53 ricardo chris: OK. Then, in this case, it's a "conditional redirect": if you type anything, you get redirected!  ;-)
17:53 chris no you get directed :)
17:54 ricardo chris: same thing to me, but I won't argue
17:57 chris its the the hot key to jump to catalogue search (alt-q) is not being bound properly
18:00 ricardo chris: Right... Any suggestion to fix that?
18:00 chris nope, ive made it my aim in life not to learn js or html
18:00 ricardo chris:LOL
18:00 chris its true
18:01 chris otherwise i end having to fix stuff like this :)
18:01 owen ricardo's problem is that under some circumstances the template is attempting to call the wrong version of the hotkeys plugin.
18:01 ricardo @quote add chris <chris> nope, ive made it my aim in life not to learn js or html
18:01 munin` ricardo: The operation succeeded.  Quote #39 added.
18:01 ricardo ;-)
18:01 owen It's not a javascript or jquery problem per se
18:01 pianohacker chris: and yet you learned perl :)
18:01 owen It's a problem with the template...perhaps with template generation during the translation process
18:02 ricardo chris: After what pianohacker wrote, it's now the time that you should write "touché"  ;-)
18:02 owen When I switched to a 3.0.x branch I was able to duplicate the problem, but after a rebase the problem went away
18:03 chris ricardo: that would mean i think perl is as retarded as js ... and i dont :)
18:03 ricardo owen: What is the file that loads the hotkeys plugin ?
18:04 chris owen: can we see the line in the template that is getting the wrong file?
18:04 ricardo chris: I think it's just a case of different tools (languages) for different things
18:04 owen chris, when you view the source you can see that the wrong file is being called
18:04 ricardo (js "vs" perl)
18:05 chris ricardo: i dont mind jquery, but js is in fact, retarded :)
18:05 chris owen: cool, what line?
18:06 pianohacker right. they're kind of similar in the fact that they've been haphazardly cobbled together to meet a need, and the makers are now frantically attempting cleanup efforts (see ecmascript and perl 6)
18:07 owen chris: line 26 of the "view source"
18:08 chris ta
18:08 chris <script type="text/javascript" src="/intranet-tmpl/prog/en/lib/jquery/p​lugins/jquery.hotkeys.min.js"></script>  that one?
18:08 owen Right.
18:08 chris and is that the right or wrong one?
18:09 owen The right one.
18:09 owen In ricardo's test installation when you switch to the Portuguese translation you get the wrong one.
18:09 owen <script type="text/javascript" src="/intranet-tmpl/prog/en/lib/j​query/plugins/jquery.hotkeys.js">
18:09 chris whats the wrong one? the non minified version?
18:10 owen The non-minifed version is an older version and the wrong one for the most recent 3.0.x
18:11 ricardo hdl had mentioned "" and he's right
18:11 ricardo Line 21 of that
18:12 ricardo koha-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/prog/pt-PT/includes
18:12 pianohacker could there be some odd line in the .po that is "translating" that file name?
18:12 ricardo # view
18:12 ricardo Line 21
18:12 chris seems likely pianohacker
18:12 ricardo <script type="text/javascript" src="<!-- TMPL_VAR name="themelang" -->/lib/j                                             query/plugins/ui.tabs.js"></script><script type="text/javascript" src="<!--                                              TMPL_VAR name="themelang" -->/lib/jquery/plugins/jquery.hotkeys.js"></script
18:14 ricardo And for the english one
18:14 ricardo koha-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/prog/en/includes
18:14 ricardo # view
18:14 ricardo Line 21
18:14 ricardo <script type="text/javascript" src="<!-- TMPL_VAR name="themelang" -->/lib/j                                             query/plugins/ui.tabs.js"></script><script type="text/javascript" src="<!--                                              TMPL_VAR name="themelang" -->/lib/jquery/plugins/jquery.hotkeys.min.js"></sc
18:19 ricardo How does "" get generated?
18:20 brendan joined #koha
18:24 chris the same way all the other files do, by the translation scripts ( etc)
18:27 chris cant find anything suspicious in the .po file
18:29 chris ricardo: can you change into your git repo
18:29 * pianohacker neither
18:29 ricardo chris:Sure
18:29 ricardo chris: and...?
18:29 chris cd koha-tmpl
18:29 chris grep "jquery.hotkeys" -r *
18:31 chris i suspect that the english file in there has the wrong one, and since the translated one is based on it, it has the wrong one too
18:31 chris thats my latest theory
18:31 jdavidb joined #koha
18:32 gmcharlt_ joined #koha
18:32 owen But when you switch to the English translation in his test server you get the correct file
18:32 pastebot "ricardo" at pasted "Output of grep "jquery.hotkeys" -r * in koha-tmpl" (11 lines) at
18:32 chris yes, thats a red herring owen
18:33 chris because he copied the translated files elsewhere, which means they arent being run out of git
18:34 chris in that case, recreate the templates right now :)
18:35 ricardo chris: I do have a /root/rickoha30x/...  and a /root/rickohamaster ... for 2 different Virtual Hosts... But, in both cases, the translated files reside in "/root/ricardokohaclone" (AFAICT)
18:36 chris i just generated the pt templates
18:36 chris and its showing the right thing
18:36 ricardo # pwd/root/ricardokohaclone/misc/translator
18:36 ricardo # pwd
18:37 ricardo I'm in /root/ricardokohaclone/misc/translator
18:37 ricardo running
18:37 ricardo ./ pt-PT
18:37 ricardo right?
18:37 chris yep
18:37 chris pt-PT/includes/<script type="text/javascript" src="<!-- TMPL_VAR name="themelang" -->/lib/jquery/plugins/ui.​tabs.js"></script><script type="text/javascript" src="<!-- TMPL_VAR name="themelang" -->/lib/jquery/plugins/jquer​y.hotkeys.min.js"></script>
18:38 ricardo Lots and lots of output...
18:38 ricardo ...
18:38 ricardo Creating ../../koha-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/prog​/pt-PT//modules/cataloguing/value_​builder/unimarc_field_124e.tmpl...
18:38 ricardo ...
18:38 chris yep if you are impatient
18:38 chris you can open another term and just go have a look at that file
18:38 chris it is created right near the start :)
18:38 ricardo The install seems to be successful.
18:39 gmcharlt left #koha
18:40 ricardo # cd ../../koha-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/prog/pt-PT
18:40 ricardo # cd includes
18:40 ricardo # view
18:40 ricardo Line 21:
18:40 ricardo <script type="text/javascript" src="<!-- TMPL_VAR name="themelang" -->/lib/j                                             query/plugins/ui.tabs.js"></script><script type="text/javascript" src="<!--                                              TMPL_VAR name="themelang" -->/lib/jquery/plugins/jquery.hotkeys.js"></script
18:41 ricardo # date
18:41 ricardo Wed Oct  7 18:39:58 UTC 2009
18:41 ricardo # ls -l
18:41 ricardo -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4027 2009-06-08 14:22
18:42 ricardo OK... so let's admit that I'm being "deceived"... This "" should be dated today... Shouldn't it?
18:42 chris yes
18:42 ricardo # updatedb
18:43 ricardo # locate -i "" | grep -i "pt-pt"
18:43 chris you could do mv pt-PT pt-PT.old
18:43 chris then regen the templates
18:44 Nate joined #koha
18:44 pastebot "ricardo" at pasted "Output of locate -i "" | grep -i "pt-pt"" (10 lines) at
18:45 ricardo chris: OK. Let me try to do that
18:45 ricardo chris: NOTE... I'm not running "perl Makefile.PL; make; make install" in these experiments. Should I have done that?
18:47 ricardo Anyway...
18:47 ricardo # pwd
18:47 ricardo I'm in /root/ricardokohaclone/koh​a-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/prog
18:47 ricardo mv pt-PT pt-PT-old
18:47 chris no you shouldnt
18:48 ricardo chris: OK, thanks
18:48 ricardo # pwd
18:48 ricardo I'm in /root/ricardokohaclone/misc/translator
18:49 ricardo # ./ pt-PT
18:49 chris yep
18:50 ricardo OK
18:50 ricardo "The install seems to be successful. "
18:50 ricardo let's see the templates folder again
18:51 ricardo # pwd
18:51 ricardo I'm in /root/ricardokohaclone/koh​a-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/prog
18:51 ricardo # ls
18:51 ricardo en  img  pt-PT  pt-PT-old
18:51 ricardo # ls
18:52 ricardo uh-oh
18:52 ricardo I only get this:
18:52 ricardo js  modules
18:52 ricardo Shouldn't I get also "includes", for instance?
18:52 chris yep
18:52 ricardo Well, then... "Houston, we have a problem!"  :-/
18:53 chris what was the last line just before the successful
18:53 ricardo Let me run this... again (removing pt-PT folder) and put the entire output in
18:53 chris k
18:53 pianohacker ricardo: I was missing the includes folder when I tried it, so something strange is going on
18:54 ricardo pianohacker: OK, thanks for the feedback. Maybe "therein lies the bug"
18:54 ricardo # cd ../..
18:54 ricardo # rm -rf pt-PT
18:55 chris i will rebase and try again
18:55 chris too
18:55 chris cos it worked last time (20 mins ago)
18:55 chris rebasing now
18:55 ricardo # pwd
18:55 ricardo I'm in /root/ricardokohaclone/misc/translator
18:55 chris and running pt-PT npw
18:56 ricardo ./ pt-PT >
18:56 ricardo (I wonder if I also should be redirecting standard error)
18:57 ricardo viewing file
18:57 pastebot "chris" at pasted "generated templates" (8 lines) at
18:57 ricardo Answer... Yeah... I should also redirect standard error. Let's do this... again
18:57 pianohacker ricardo: if you have the xclip tool installed, you can pipe output to xclip -selection clipboard
18:57 chris right that is on a fresh 3.0.x rebased to latest version
18:57 pianohacker then just paste with no intermediate step
18:57 chris and it created all the files
18:58 chris and those times tell me its time to catch my bus very soon
18:58 ricardo chris: PANIC!
18:58 ricardo OK...
18:58 ricardo Redirecting file
18:59 hdl good morning chris.
19:00 ricardo (Darn AJAX console)
19:00 pianohacker ahh, right, if its over ssh that trick won't work
19:01 ricardo running...
19:01 ricardo (still running... argh)
19:01 chris ok, so it works fine here on a 3.0.x up to date
19:01 ricardo done!
19:02 chris so we are looking for some error back before it starts making the opac-tmpl files
19:02 ricardo Now let me put this somewhere visible in the web server... as a text file even... Suggestions for directory?
19:02 chris and you have fetch and rebased recently?
19:02 ricardo chris: Yes, today
19:03 chris weird, works perfectly fine here
19:03 chris but that explains it, it was never updating the includes
19:04 ricardo Repeating
19:04 ricardo ow let me put this somewhere visible in the web server... as a text file even... Suggestions for directory?
19:04 chris no idea
19:04 ricardo OK
19:04 chris right gotta go, ill be back in an hour, but i suspect just grep that file for doc-head-close
19:04 pianohacker you could throw it in koha
19:05 ricardo pianohacker: I'll try in cgi-bin/koha
19:05 pianohacker (nvm)
19:05 chris dont put it in cgi-bin
19:05 chris the server will try to execute it
19:05 chris but now i really have to go
19:05 pianohacker sorry, realized that wouldn't work (hitting enter accidentally a lot)
19:05 pianohacker bye
19:06 ricardo bye chris. Sorry and thanks. See you later
19:29 brendan wow lots to read back through :)
19:29 paul_p joined #koha
19:29 richard joined #koha
19:29 richard hi
19:29 pianohacker hello
19:30 richard hi pianohacker
19:30 brendan hi richard
19:30 richard hey brenday
19:31 richard ack
19:31 brendan howdy pianohacker
19:31 richard brendan, even
19:31 brendan hehe
19:31 ricardo Hi paul_p and richard
19:31 pastebot "ricardo" at pasted "Full output of pt-PT" (1352 lines) at
19:32 hdl bonsoir pa
19:33 pianohacker ricardo: wow, that broke impressively
19:35 ricardo pianohacker: That's me... "Ricardo Breakage, Inc."  ;-)
19:38 hdl Warning: guided_reports_start.tmpl: <a2>: Anchor 2 not found for msgid "&nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;  <a1>Assistente de  relatórios</a> &nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;  <a2>Relatórios guardados</a> &nbsp;&gt;&nbsp;  Relatório <em>%s</em>" Can't call method "string" on an undefined value at line 983, <$handle> line 57.
19:38 hdl seems to be there
19:39 davi left #koha
19:41 ricardo hdl: OK... Let me check the PO file for that
19:42 collum left #koha
19:46 ricardo hdl: Yep... You seem to be right
19:46 ricardo[…]b987b95f;hb=3.0.x
19:47 ricardo Lines 5632 to 5646 seem to be having problems
19:48 davi joined #koha
19:50 ricardo hdl: Actually, the output you mentioned points to lines 48137 to lines 48142
19:51 ricardo Although I'm not seeing reasons for trouble
19:53 ricardo No... Back to square 1
19:54 ricardo It's really lines 5632 tp 5638
19:54 ricardo hdl: OK... I guess I'll have to correct this and submit again to Chris...
19:54 ricardo hdl: Not sure if it could have a side effect, but it has to be corrected.
19:55 paul_p owen and nahuel are competing today on updating bugzilla...
19:55 ricardo paul_p: LOL!
19:55 owen paul_p: I don't think I can beat nahuel's numbers!
19:55 paul_p (owen, nahuel told me he still has 30 to do, will do them tomorrow, you won't win ;-) )
19:58 ricardo Got to go... BBL, maybe
19:59 ricardo Bye everyone. Thanks chris , owen and hdl !
19:59 owen Bye ricardo
19:59 owen If OPACViewOthersSuggestions is ON, shouldn't I be able to see suggestions from other users?
19:59 ricardo left #koha
19:59 owen There are three outstanding suggestions in the system, but I only see the one owned by the logged in user in the opac
20:00 hdl owen it is the reverse
20:00 hdl mmm... Yes. with OPACViewothersSuggestion ON you should be able to see those suggestions
20:02 chris @later tell ricardo i generated the templates fine with the version of the .po file that is in 3.0.x
20:02 munin` chris: The operation succeeded.
20:03 owen Is anyone else finding that they do no see others' purchase suggestions in the OPAC?
20:03 schuster Chris so the next time Ricardo logs in he will get this message is that what that means?
20:04 schuster owen sorry we are not using that feature kids and comments probably not a good mix.
20:04 chris yeah the next time he either logs in, or if he was already logged in, the next time he said something
20:08 pianohacker hi jwagner. how are you?
20:08 hdl owen will try that.
20:09 owen hdl: I'm speaking of HEAD, by the way
20:09 hdl oh....
20:10 hdl Will test on 3.0.x soon
20:10 hdl (before)
20:19 davi left #koha
20:23 gmcharlt_ left #koha
20:24 jwagner left #koha
20:26 nengard left #koha
20:27 paul_p left #koha
20:33 davi joined #koha
20:43 jdavidb left #koha
20:45 owen left #koha
20:57 gmcharlt joined #koha
21:01 chris wb gmcharlt
21:02 * gmcharlt is sitting in airport again
21:02 chris ahh, on your way back to florida?
21:02 gmcharlt to Boston for a NISO meeting
21:03 chris ahhh cool
21:03 chris NCIP stuff?
21:03 gmcharlt no, just a general forum
21:03 chris ah
21:04 Nate left #koha
21:04 rhcl_busy NISO like National Information Standards Organization?
21:05 gmcharlt rhcl_busy: yes
21:06 rhcl_busy Well, RHCL is impressed.
21:06 rhcl_busy is now known as rhcl
21:07 schuster Well I'm off won't be around now until Monday again busy next 4 days.
21:07 schuster left #koha
21:19 rhcl is now known as rhcl_busy
21:22 gmcharlt left #koha
21:26 hdl owen ok for viewOthersSuggestion on 3.0.x
21:26 Jo joined #koha
21:27 Jo Mornin g all
21:29 pianohacker hi Jo
21:29 hdl good night Koha
21:30 pianohacker good night hdl
21:31 chris night hdl
21:32 hdl is now known as hdl_away
22:00 brendan afternoon #koha
22:00 chris[…]ington-bungy-ride
22:01 brendan quick questions what is the encryption on the user passwords in the mysql database
22:02 chris md5_base64
22:04 brendan cool
22:04 brendan gotten close
22:04 brendan happy invention of the barcode day -- I guess
22:05 chris heh
22:15 sekjal joined #koha
22:17 sekjal Hi, everyone. Trying IRC on the train; hoping it works smoothly
22:17 chris :)
22:17 brendan heya sekjal
22:17 brendan seems smooth so far
22:17 sekjal Looks like it's working. Hey, chris and brendan
22:18 sekjal Tried downloading an app, but the only free one didn't like our server
22:18 sekjal Yay mibbit
22:22 sekjal I've been working on a script to push our Acquisitions orders to Accounts Payable in an EDI file
22:23 sekjal I'm curious, how have others marked their orders as "paid" or " ready to pay"?
22:34 sekjal left #koha
23:35 pianohacker back
23:48 ofish joined #koha

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