IRC log for #koha, 2009-09-16

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
00:17 chris_n2 is everyone free to add pros and cons to the comparison chart of foundations?[…]aheldbyfoundation
00:17 chris i reckon so
00:17 chris its a wiki :)
00:29 * chris_n2 wanders off to read his 3 year old a book
00:33 chris awesome
00:33 chris superpotamus is a good one :)
00:34 richard heh
00:34 chris[…]739-superpotamus/
00:38 brendan later #koha -- be back in a bit :)
00:38 chris cya brendan
00:48 brendan left #koha
00:57 chris_n2 ifla does not really look like it does what we would be looking for in a foundation
00:57 chris even temporary?
00:57 chris (i agree mind you, just playing devils advocate)
00:57 chris_n2 the closest thing I can find is a "Special Interest Group" dealing w/libraries and web 2.0:
00:58 chris *nod*
00:58 chris_n2 it really does not have any sort of mechanism that I can find whereby 'we' would 'join' as a community/committee/etc
00:59 chris i dont think it is even something the would be interested in doing
00:59 chris the=they
00:59 * chris_n2 agrees
01:00 chris_n2 their purpose appears very broad and much more related to the overall library picture
01:00 chris yeah
01:03 chris_n2 they would be more like the universe and we the planet.... whereas SPI, HLT are more like the sun and we the planet.... in the koha foundation scenario, however, the universe revolves around the planet - koha... ;-)
01:03 chris :)
01:03 chris_n2 maybe the geocentric theory had its merits
01:05 * chris_n2 finds himself locked out by slef :-)
01:06 chris wow, he's up late, maybe he fell asleep at the keyboard
01:06 chris @seen slef
01:06 munin` chris: slef was last seen in #koha 4 hours, 36 minutes, and 27 seconds ago: <slef> gmcharlt: #include <joke/merge-branch-fork-child>
01:06 chris_n2 actually he adds some stuff as we chat
01:08 * chris_n2 looks around for his superpotamus suit
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01:08 chris :)
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01:09 chris_n2 chris: btw, my 3 year old has moved out of nappies and into training pants.... yay!
01:10 chris woo hoo
01:10 chris we are nearly there
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01:11 chris_n2 this is the fourth (and last) time, but somehow it seems to have been just as much a challenge as the first :-P
01:11 * chris_n2 cheers slef on
01:13 slef ok, unlocked
01:13 slef here I was adding random thoughts when I wake up in the middle of the night
01:13 chris ahh :)
01:13 slef thinking I'd be unnoticed... I should know better than to doubt #koha's powers of observation
01:14 gmcharlt slef: Koha is awake 24 hours a day
01:14 slef cool. Can it answer my phones, please? ;-)
01:15 gmcharlt just as soon as somebody contributes an Asterisk plugin
01:15 chris funny you should say that
01:15 chris that was something reed wanted to do
01:16 gmcharlt well, what's he waiting for!?  slef's phones need answering ;)
01:17 slef hrm, some clients aren't happy when they get a simple voicemail... wonder what they'd think if an LMS answered :-D
01:18 gmcharlt depends on the quality of the data in the catalog, I suppose
01:20 chris_n2 asterisk++
01:20 * chris_n2 has plans to trash the pbx and put his asterisk test server into production
01:21 chris another public vendor repo hits the wiki[…]lopment:git_repos
01:22 chris_n2 cool... more pressure
01:26 chris_n2 it's sort of funny: the patches for correcting cutter number splitting will probably hit the main repo before they are applied to our production koha server locally.
01:26 chris hehe
01:26 chris those patches will make a lot of catalogers happy
01:27 chris_n2 and 'snap'... there they are
01:28 gmcharlt chris_n2++
01:30 chris chris_n2++
01:33 chris_n2 a bunch of code could benefit from improvements like those in chris 's patch
01:34 chris what'd i do?
01:35 chris_n2 your dbi patch
01:35 chris_n2 Update some DBI interactions
01:35 chris ohh, that wasnt me i dont think
01:36 * chris looks at git log
01:36 chris_n2 opps... colin campbell
01:36 chris_n2 sorry :-O
01:36 chris yep, some nice patches coming in from ptfs europe
01:37 chris_n2 any thoughts on a line for crontab git fetch && git rebase for multiple branches?
01:37 chris_n2 ie. current branch is 'some-work' but I want crontab to rebase 'master' and 'some-work'
01:38 chris ahhh
01:38 chris id prolly write a bash script
01:38 chris and call that from crontab
01:40 chris_n2 I think 'git rebase origin some-work' && 'git rebase origin master' would do, but leave me in 'master'
01:40 chris_n2 script is probably best, as you suggest
01:42 chris_n2 what might really be cool would be to have a hook to call a perl tidy on commit
01:43 chris if we start that practice, it should be right after a release, cos whitespace changes make diffs really hard to read
01:43 slef chris: enjoy the end of my spi-private email.
01:43 chris but any new files, perltidy away :)
01:43 chris slef: you just sent one?
01:44 chris ah yes
01:44 chris hehe
01:45 slef not what I expected :(
01:54 slef network gone unstable, going away again
02:16 chris_n2 think shell scripting: why does "echo $(`/usr/lib/git-core/git-branch`)" result in "line 2: 0001-Bug-2500-Correcting-incorre​ct-splitting-of-cutter-nu.patch: command not found" (the failed attempt to execute the first file in the dir as a command???)?
02:18 chris_n2 echo `/usr/lib/git-core/git-branch` results in a listing of the current directory.... weirdness indeed
02:35 chris_n2 here's a cool git prompt:
02:36 chris_n2 displays branch and status in your shell prompt
02:39 snail chris_n2: only use fance colours if you always connect from a linux machine. if you're connecting from random windows boxes using random clients enough of them get ansii colour wrong for it to be a pain
02:40 chris chris_n2: i use something similair to that, atz wrote a blog post on it
02:40 * chris_n2 always uses putty from win32 boxes :-)
02:40 chris[…]-koha-developers/
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02:58 chris hmm that wasnt the one i was thinking of, but its a good point nonetheless
02:58 chris s/point/post/
03:04 chris_n2 well, I got bash script and git playing nice together so I think it's time for bed
03:05 chris_n2 g'night
03:05 chris_n2 is now known as chris_n2-away
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03:10 Amit hi chris, brendan
03:10 Amit good morning #koha
03:11 chris hi amit
03:16 snail morning Amit
03:17 richard hi amit and snail
03:18 Amit hi richard, snail
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03:58 brendan hello amit
04:07 chris brendan:[…]koha-and-liblime/
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04:22 brendan Goodnight #koha
04:22 thd-foraging Unfortunately, Roy Tennant has defended the closed nature of the OCLC record sharing policy as if it had been actually encouraging openness.
04:22 thd-foraging is now known as thd
04:22 chris cant win them all
04:23 thd good night brendan
04:23 chris one fight at a time :)
04:23 thd chris: I have been having some trouble with my new website
04:23 chris i am glad pointed out that the redhat analogy is false (well 2 people did)
04:23 thd chris: perhaps you have some insight into my problem
04:24 chris fire away
04:24 thd after several problems, I know seem to have some proxying stuck in Apache.
04:25 chris right
04:25 thd that is after I remove the proxying and attempt to redirect a subdomain it still points to the same proxied service.
04:25 chris hmm
04:25 thd I restart Apache and have no effect
04:26 chris tried a full stop-start
04:26 chris ?
04:26 thd I cannot remember but I will try that now
04:26 chris i also find
04:26 chris curl -I url
04:26 chris handy
04:27 chris for trying to spot what is going on
04:28 chris  <--andrew works with me .. and we tried this on koha git .. its way way cool ;)
04:32 thd chris: reading the headers tells me nothing other than what I already know that the Apache proxy is still redirecting to a commented out redirect.
04:33 chris well it does tell you its not your browser doing it
04:33 thd Oh I see.
04:33 chris which often it will keep doing, even if you dont want it too
04:33 chris curl doesnt remember, browsers do
04:33 thd So yes I have confirmed that the problem is not in the browser.
04:33 chris cool
04:34 thd So then where can the problem be.
04:34 chris hmm, the access logs confirm it going through the virtual host you expect it to be?
04:35 thd I think that it could not be otherwise but I had fallen asleep the night before last when I was about to check the logs properly.
04:36 chris thats the only other thing i can think og
04:36 chris of even
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05:53 Michael32424234 Hi all, I'm just trying to make an adjustment on an OPAC. Is there a way to hide the 'search' form/buttons from users who have not logged in yet? Also, can it be done without editing the templates? (using jscript is fine) Thanks!
05:53 Michael32424234 is now known as Michael
05:53 pianohacker Michael32424234: That might be a better question for the mailing list
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05:53 pianohacker Owen Leonard, the jQuery expert, is asleep right now
05:54 pianohacker I'd normally be able to help, but it is far to late for me to be thinking clearly enough
05:54 pianohacker (apologies)
05:54 Michael No problems, that's fair enough. Thanks, I might try the mainling list then.
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05:57 Ropuch Morning everybody
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05:59 Ropuch Michael: i think you have to edit tmpl a little bit
06:00 pianohacker It might be possible with jQuery, though it'd be a little roundabout
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06:06 pianohacker Good night, everybody
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06:09 Michael Thanks, I've just put the question to the mailing list.
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06:34 chris evening all
06:34 SelfishMan howdy
06:35 Ropuch hello chris
06:36 chris get some sleep Ropuch ?
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06:39 Amit hi kf, selfishman, ropuch
06:39 chris hi kf
06:40 kf hi Amit and chris
06:41 chris Michael: you want to use
06:42 Ropuch chris: yes :)
06:42 Michael Thanks, I'll take a look. Cheers!
06:43 chris then you can do  var cookie = $.cookie("CGISESSID");
06:43 chris if (!cookie){
06:43 chris hide the search box
06:43 chris }
06:45 chris does that make sense?
06:45 * chris will reply to your email
06:49 Michael Sorry, I was away from irc. I haven't used plugins but I'll see if I can get it working.
06:50 chris essentially you jsut grab that file
06:50 chris call it cookie.js
06:50 chris then add to one of the sysprefs to tell it to be loaded
06:56 Michael OK, I'll try it out, I'm still learning so I'll take it easy. Thanks for your help.
06:56 chris no problem sing out if you get stuck
06:57 chris bbiab
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07:15 paul_p[…]t/1050048905.html
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07:18 chris[…]koha-and-liblime/
07:19 chris i commented on this one, pointing out how biblibre had helped, it must be waiting moderation :)
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07:22 paul_p hi chris (I hadn't seen josh mail on koha ML before answering to your question.
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07:23 paul_p my answer it much different then. yes, we must answer (and on the mailing list)
07:23 paul_p (I thought you wanted a PR)
07:24 paul_p I will answer josh mail, on this, and on many other topics
07:25 chris ahh :)
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07:25 chris i think echoing the call for a public repo is good too, it seems everyone wants that
07:27 chris i am happy that others have said that
07:28 chris and happy to see lots of repo's being added to the wiki
07:33 Ropuch Hm, twinview is acting little strange
07:34 Ropuch But translating with gpoedit and opac open at the same time is worth it ;>
07:34 chris :)
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07:59 |Lupin| hi
08:05 kf hi |Lupin|
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08:12 Michael Night all, for anyone interested in the issue I had earlier (hiding the OPAC search form until users have logged in), I will be posting a solution to the mailing list soon.
08:12 Michael Thanks for everyone's help too.
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08:15 paul_p chris:mail sent
08:23 chris just read it
08:23 chris and its all true
08:27 snail night all
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08:27 * paul_p suggest to call LL fork "LEK"
08:28 paul_p (don't use the term "Koha" ;-) )
08:31 * |Lupin| wishes he could say good night too and go to bed, unfortuntely the day just starts here...
08:31 Amit hi lupin, paul_p
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08:35 |Lupin| hi Amit
08:38 chris is a good stat too
08:41 kf LEK?
08:42 kf ah. liblime enterprise koha?
08:42 chris yep
08:44 |Lupin| well spotted kf !
08:49 paul_p I think we should advertise on "Community Library Koha" ;-)
08:54 kf CLK?
08:54 kf ;)
08:54 chris hehe
08:56 * paul_p think we could release a PR announcing CLK, on exactly the same schema as PR for LEK. That would be funny.
08:58 paul_p something like "BibLibre, Catalyst, ByWaters, Tamil, PTFS, PTFS-Europe announces Community Library Koha". CLK is build on over ten years of completed customer-sponsored development. This free software, available on cloud or local hosting will also give regulare release ,...
08:58 chris :)
08:58 paul_p we could "copy/paste" the complete PR, just changing some key features.
08:58 paul_p s/features/facts/
08:58 Colin Limes are not the only fruit
08:58 chris i think the release notes for 3.2 will serve as the best PR
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09:44 magnusenger[…]/where-goes-koha/
09:44 chris yep, just retweet miromurr :)
09:45 chris and told him he should come on irc more .. and that i agree with most, except i dont see the foundation as a big problem, rather as a big opportunity :)
09:46 magnusenger you beat me to the RT, chris ;-)
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10:00 |Lupin| hmm it seems our KOha only returns those biblios for which there is at least one item available, in opac searches. s this behaviour configurable, pls ?
10:00 |Lupin| couldn't find any syspref for the moment
10:01 chris 2 secs ill check
10:02 chris mine certainly returns results
10:02 |Lupin| chris: for the biblios without an item ?
10:02 chris even for biblios have no items at all
10:02 chris yes
10:02 kf perhaps searchmylibraryfirst or something like that?
10:03 chris http://opac.koha.workbuffer.or[…]
10:03 chris none of those have items
10:04 chris cant find any obvious syspref
10:04 |Lupin| o...
10:04 |Lupin| actually I think our librarian has problems with her browser who didn't perhaps re-submit the query...
10:04 |Lupin| thanks all !
10:04 |Lupin| (lunch time here, bbl)
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10:17 slef chris: is yours and can I have access, please?  Or should we just ditch it?
10:19 chris its one of mine
10:19 chris i have one on github too
10:19 chris but yep you can have access i havent pushed in a while tho
10:19 * chris likes having backups everywhere
10:23 chris whats ur username
10:23 chris slef?
10:23 slef let me go register ;-)
10:31 chris :)
10:33 gmcharlt good morning
10:34 chris morning gmcharlt
10:38 chris slef: its all up to date now, and will add you as a user (and anyone else) when i know user names
10:40 slef username is slef
10:40 slef thanks
10:40 chris done
10:43 chris slef: originmaster tracks
10:43 chris the rest are topic branches
10:45 slef thanks... currently trying to make the case for using gitorious to get small fixes out of the co-op sooner
10:47 chris[…]e-koha-community/
10:48 chris what is with people and the red hat forked linux crud?
10:48 chris slef: doing so would be good, it would be yet one more public repo
10:49 chris LEK does not equal Red Hat
10:49 slef LEK?
10:49 gmcharlt LibLime Enterprise K*ha
10:50 slef OIC BFE TLAs
10:51 chris scroll back slef, you will see paul talking bout LEK
10:51 chris magnusenger: yes that is indeed the right south park episode :)
10:52 magnusenger chris: cool! ;-)
10:52 slef chris: scrollback is on another server until it is emailed to me.  This IRC setup is freaky.
10:53 chris heh
10:53 chris 20:28  * paul_p suggest to call LL fork "LEK"
10:53 chris 20:28 < paul_p> (don't use the term "Koha" ;-) )
11:05 chris it never ceases to amaze that people think if they post the same question again and again on the mailing list, someone will magically answer it
11:05 chris oh yes, i wait til the 38th time i see a question before i answer it
11:07 slef if they post the same question again and again, or to every list they can find, the duplicate filter usually kicks in and hides it :)
11:07 chris_n2-away is now known as chris_n2
11:07 chris_n2 g'morning
11:07 chris hiya chris_n2
11:08 chris_n2 "LEK".... lol
11:09 slef pronounced letch?
11:09 slef or leak?
11:09 chris_n2 or leech
11:10 Ropuch Hm, how can i add 3.1/3.2 opac in certain language to projects on pootle?
11:10 chris_n2 re: multiple posts.... after the second or third I suffer from buffer overrun
11:11 * chris_n2 heads out; bbiab
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11:12 chris Ropuch: you ask on koha-translate
11:12 chris and i will do it
11:13 chris bear in mind those will still change a bit before the string freeze, but if you are ok with that
11:13 chris i can set it up
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11:18 Ropuch chris: i was just curious, want to finish 3.00.X first
11:18 chris *nod*
11:19 chris i use the file from 3.0.x as the base for creating one for 3.2.x
11:19 chris so finishing it is a good plan
11:20 Ropuch Opac is quite quick&easy to translate, intranet would be an issue ;>
11:21 |Lupin| back
11:22 gmcharlt paul_p: ping
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11:37 chris hii jwagner
11:38 jwagner hi chris
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11:55 jdavidb Good morning #koha.  :)
11:55 kf good morning jdavidb
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12:11 gmcharlt hdl_laptop: is your latest patch in any of the BL trees?
12:11 hdl_laptop Not on public but I can send it to you if you need
12:13 gmcharlt email it to the patches list, please
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12:13 gmcharlt hdl_laptop: btw, how are you getting on the with the cherry-picking for 3.0.4
12:13 gmcharlt ?
12:14 chris i think we are pretty much done
12:14 chris at least from what i can tell
12:14 chris and with that, im gonna hit the hay
12:15 chris have a good day #koha
12:15 chris cya in 8 hours or so
12:15 kf good night chris
12:15 gmcharlt g'night
12:18 hdl_laptop good night
12:18 hdl_laptop gmcharlt: we might have finished that.
12:18 hdl_laptop Apart from that problem on Auth_with_ldap
12:19 gmcharlt ok, I'll test and it push it once it's on the patches list
12:19 gmcharlt and then time to try a fresh install of the 3.0.4 candidate, then an upgrade
12:20 gmcharlt I got a ping from Amit asking about a DB error on installation from the maintenance branch, but he dropped out before he gave me any details
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12:40 hdl_laptop gmcharlt: sent
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12:41 Nate Good Morning Everyone!
12:41 jdavidb Mornin', Nate. :)
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12:42 schuster I go home and all kinds of things happen!
12:42 jdavidb Indeed.
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12:54 chris_n morning owen
12:54 owen Hi
12:56 owen Some interesting but so far insubstantial communication from LibLime yesterday.
12:57 jdavidb That's a kind way to put it, owne.
12:57 jdavidb owen, even.  :P
12:58 jdavidb Since I've been asked about it several times, I'll say it here:  PTFS will be opening a public git repo for our works-in-progress in the next few days.
12:58 gmcharlt hdl_laptop: I'm not sure about simply removing the principal_name LDAP config setting - I'm pretty sure it's in use
12:59 owen That's great to hear jdavidb. Will you be publicizing it on the mailing list?
12:59 owen You could even submit a news item to :)
13:00 gmcharlt jdavidb++
13:00 jdavidb Yes, I'll be sending a message out once I get it standing up.  We've got a *lot* of WIPs, so it may take a while to get them all up there, but I have several in mind to toss out at once.
13:01 owen Wow, Roy Tennant's post is no-holds-barred.
13:02 jdavidb Indeed.
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13:17 hdl_laptop gmcharlt: would it be really harmful to rely on dn compared with a manually input string ?
13:18 hdl_laptop Is there a way to try and test those ?
13:19 gmcharlt hdl_laptop: making sure it works with MS Active Directory would be the acid test - that's been driving a lot of the changes
13:19 * gmcharlt doesn't have an AD setup, though
13:19 hdl_laptop gmcharlt: I just reported a bug in ModItemFromMarc
13:19 hdl_laptop and sent the patch
13:24 gmcharlt hdl_laptop: looks OK on first glance, but is there going to be an issue stripping away a UNIMARC 100 that presumably contains the UTF8 flag?
13:26 * gmcharlt is also thinking that we could fairly easily get rid of ModItemFromMarc entirely
13:27 gmcharlt add just have a routine that parses a MARC item tag to a hashref and use only ModItem to do the actual updating
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13:48 schuster Owen - what's the link to Roy Tennants post?
13:49 owen[…]t/1050048905.html
13:49 schuster thanks
13:49 schuster Why find it yourself with librarians around ;)
13:49 owen :D
13:49 owen That's why my wife never uses the phone book!
13:49 hdl_laptop gmcharlt: in fact, 100$a is breaking the udpate, so I had to choose
13:50 gmcharlt hdl_laptop: a quick test to see if a diacritic in an item field gets handled correctly is in order, then
13:53 chris_n owen: in that case, my wife must be a librarian because I never use a phone book ;-)
13:54 jdavidb No librarians in our house, at all--and no librarians, either...just a geek who's learned much from them.  :)
13:54 hdl_laptop gmcharlt: tested : No problems with diacritics
13:54 gmcharlt hdl_laptop: cool
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13:55 hdl_laptop gmcharlt: do you have a MSActive Directory Test ?
13:55 gmcharlt hdl_laptop: any chance I could get you to convert that example file from the bug to a test case?
13:55 gmcharlt hdl_laptop: no, I don't have AD
13:56 hdl_laptop gmcharlt: I am already convinced how Usefull it could be.
13:56 hdl_laptop But t/lib is still a bit noisy for me.
13:56 * jdavidb gets grumpy with his typo-ridden keyboard.
13:56 gmcharlt hdl_laptop: oh, I'm sure - I'm just being lazy and hoping you'll convert it to a test case so that I don't have to ;)
13:57 hdl_laptop But I can do t/db_dependant
13:57 gmcharlt that's fine
14:10 jwagner XSLT question -- how do you escape a character?  I'm putting together a string in XSLT (continuing the SFX link thing) that includes an ampersand, and XSLT does not like the ampersand at all.  I've tried \& but that doesn't work.  What's the escape code?
14:11 jdavidb &amp;  ?
14:11 jwagner With the semicolon?
14:11 jdavidb yes.
14:12 jwagner Thanks, that seems to have done it.
14:12 jdavidb yabetcha.  :)
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14:33 chris_n hdl_laptop: I run an AD domain here; I might be able to do some AD auth tests, but it will be later this week or weekend
14:34 * chris_n wishes the first menu item in all context menus was 'Paste'
14:36 nicomo_laptop1 joined #koha
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14:46 rhcl_away is now known as rhcl
14:50 owen left #koha
15:02 |Lupin| bye all
15:02 |Lupin| left #koha
15:07 owen joined #koha
15:11 jwagner gmcharlt, around?
15:11 gmcharlt jwagner: yep
15:12 jwagner Got a fix coming for my XSLT/syspref patch that you just pushed -- one of our people spotted a duplicated line which means the record count is getting doubled.
15:13 gmcharlt ok
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15:32 wizzyrea dangit owen, I was SO writing that message!
15:32 wizzyrea almost verbatim!
15:32 owen :)
15:32 wizzyrea you're way to fast, and I'm too concerned with not skeeving people off
15:33 wizzyrea :)
15:33 owen I'd love to have your version posted too. Everyone on that list is sick of my ranting by now
15:33 wizzyrea fair enough, I'll send it :)
15:33 owen Besides, that post REALLY needed to be rebutted.
15:34 owen "LibLime is the only company doing librarian-driven development?" What have they been telling people?
15:35 wizzyrea I think they've been told lots of things
15:35 wizzyrea like, I"m not sure they are really clear on who the RM is for 3.2
15:35 wizzyrea and what 3.2 even is, for that matter
15:35 owen Exactly.
15:35 wizzyrea ok, I sent it
15:35 wizzyrea *ducks and covers*
15:36 wizzyrea who exactly do they think is commissioning all of the other features? Firemen?
15:36 wizzyrea wtf.
15:37 owen I don't know, it seems like gmcharlt has been approving an awful lot of firemen-oriented features lately.
15:37 owen Like that shiny pole leading from cataloging to circulation?
15:37 kf which post are you talking about?
15:38 Willem joined #koha
15:38 owen Sorry kf, we're discussing a message on a mailing list for Liblime customers
15:38 kf ah ok, no problem
15:38 gmcharlt owen: alas!  you've discovered my secret plot to turn Koha into a fire station management system!
15:38 owen A discussion has been started on the subject of the Koha Foundation, and the first post showed some misconceptions
15:39 wizzyrea based on the immediate goals of the community re: what the foundation should do
15:39 * owen should be buried in Drupal themes, but koha drama keeps distracting him
15:39 wizzyrea ok, poll
15:40 wizzyrea phonetically, droo pahl, or droo pal, or droo pul
15:40 chris_n drool pool maybe
15:40 wizzyrea <3
15:41 wizzyrea or droolpool
15:41 owen 'The name Drupal, pronounced "droo-puhl," derives from the English pronunciation of the Dutch word "druppel," which means "drop."'
15:41 owen
15:41 wizzyrea ok, that's what I thought
15:41 wizzyrea i get so annoyed when people say "droo pahl
15:41 * owen too
15:42 owen Sounds like RuPaul
15:42 wizzyrea yes, their emPHAsis is on the wrong syllAble
15:42 wizzyrea among other things
15:42 kf droo pahl bringt me to something, how do you pronounce koha and horowhenua?
15:44 owen "Koh'-hah" is how I've always heard it
15:44 jdavidb The O is long, like in "owen," but pulled back in the throat a little.  the a is like the a in "father."
15:45 kf owen: thx - giving my first koha presentation on tuesday and start to doubt everything
15:45 kf ok, that mathes how it would be pronounced in German
15:45 owen And "Hore - ah - when -ah" I believe, but chris would be able to say more accurately
15:46 kf I considered writing horowhenua on my slide and just speaking of hlt...
15:46 owen Very pragmatic :)
15:46 kf afraid people will ask :)
15:46 wizzyrea hehe
15:48 jdavidb I heard him pronounce it close to "hore-ah-when-wah", but he was talking fast; I could be wrong.
15:49 owen Yeah, jdavidb that might be better
15:50 owen Alright, long afternoon-killing meeting approaching. Time to eat a nap-inducing lunch.
15:50 owen left #koha
15:51 kf ok, time to go home (to perhaps finally start working on my slides :( ) - thx and bye :)
15:51 kf left #koha
15:53 * jdavidb reads the scrollback, and laughs at wizzyrea's way of speech.  "skeeving people off?"   :P
15:54 wizzyrea well I didn't think it was quite appropriate to "piss them off"
15:55 wizzyrea but I just said it so
15:55 wizzyrea *sigh*
15:55 rhcl use "piece" as in , "piece them off"
15:55 paul_p2 left #koha
15:56 jdavidb "torque"
16:01 Willem left #koha
16:03 wizzyrea rhcl: good idea
16:06 jdavidb @dict skeeve
16:06 munin` jdavidb: No definition for "skeeve" could be found.
16:39 sekjal joined #koha
16:43 wizzyrea come on, you don't find skeeve to be absolutely conveying what I meant, regardless of it's actual existence as a word?
16:44 jdavidb Oh, absolutely, wizzyrea...I knew exactly what you meant.  Just never heard it before.   :P
16:44 wizzyrea my husband always laughs at me because I was an english major... but I always make up words
16:44 wizzyrea but everyone always knows what I mean so...
16:44 wizzyrea I'm like the mashup english major
16:45 wizzyrea I think the internet has corrupted me though.
16:45 wizzyrea somebody: best link to koha history?
16:46 wizzyrea most descriptive, thorough web posting regarding said history?
16:46 sekjal[…]=docs/history.txt
16:47 wizzyrea yes, indeed.
16:47 * jdavidb snaps his fingers.  sekjal beat me to the most complete one.
16:47 wizzyrea not the most prosaic history, but complete for sure
16:49 sekjal at least up to Sept 6
16:49 sekjal events have, of course, transpired since then.
16:50 wizzyrea well, sure :P
16:51 sekjal I should get the details of the KUDOS meeting at ALA 09, and pass them along.  previous KUDOS meetings were listed
16:57 nicomo_laptop left #koha
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17:09 wizzyrea have any of you ever coded a feature for koha that wasn't asked for by librarians?
17:10 jdavidb Not a full feature, no.
17:14 jdavidb I've fixed a number of dodgy things that bugged me that librarians wouldn't have ever known about (like the annoying message out of rebuild_zebra that I patched last week).  But no big features.
17:21 wizzyrea i'm not talking about bugfixes, but features
17:22 wizzyrea like adding a "checkin all" button or local holds
17:22 wizzyrea ok, I just wanted to ask
17:22 wizzyrea because there is an implication elsewhere that the community codes features based on personal desire, and not for the benefit or at the direction of librarians
17:23 wizzyrea which I find to be laughable
17:25 ColinC Agreed. It would be pointless to do it in a library system
17:43 ColinC left #koha
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18:04 Ropuch Good evening
18:05 chris *sigh*
18:06 chris[…]t/1050048905.html
18:07 chris ben ide is back
18:08 chris jdavidb: the wh sound in maori close to an f
18:09 chris i feel that someone rebut his small group of programmers, but i cant cos im a programmer so my opinion doesnt count
18:10 * jdavidb suggests we take up a collection, and mail Ben Ide a big box of clues.
18:15 brendan left #koha
18:16 * chris_n wonders just who "Ben Ide" is
18:17 chris[…]les/BenIde/122774
18:17 chris his library is a WALDO member
18:17 chris_n chris: Is this the same Ben that posted on your blog the other day?
18:17 chris yes
18:18 chris i have had correspondence with him since, and thought he might be getting it, but nope, it appears not
18:18 * chris reads back
18:18 chris ahh, and misinformation being spread on the LL users list too
18:18 chris_n interesting comms on code4lib earlier
18:18 chris oh? missed that
18:20 chris hmm yeah, i dont think i have added a feature not asked for by a librarian either
18:22 chris oh except that time .. when katipo decided to write an ils just for fun, then forced HLT to use it
18:22 chris forgot that bit
18:22 chris_n lol :-O
18:22 brendan joined #koha
18:23 gmcharlt @quote add <chris> oh except that time .. when katipo decided to write an ils just for fun, then forced HLT to use i
18:23 munin` gmcharlt: The operation succeeded.  Quote #33 added.
18:23 gmcharlt @quote remove 33
18:23 munin` gmcharlt: The operation succeeded.
18:23 gmcharlt @quote add <chris> oh except that time .. when katipo decided to write an ils just for fun, then forced HLT to use it
18:23 munin` gmcharlt: The operation succeeded.  Quote #34 added.
18:29 wizzyrea oh wow... someone's on the kool aid selilng path again
18:29 wizzyrea selling*
18:32 chris oh?
18:32 wizzyrea yea, it's like
18:32 wizzyrea the things this guy says are practically proxies for what a certain CEO would say
18:33 Nate left #koha
18:33 chris yes
18:33 * chris_n is always leery about drinking koolaid
18:34 * jdavidb has a very advanced model of Baloney Detector, so is mostly immune to Kool-Aid.
18:34 chris hehe
18:35 wizzyrea i hear that red40 causes hyperactivity. maybe that's the problem
18:35 * gmcharlt dislikes mixing baloney and kool-aid
18:35 wizzyrea not even in the blender, gmcharlt?
18:35 wizzyrea perhaps especially not there
18:35 jdavidb eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeewwwwww  liz!
18:35 gmcharlt I just had lunch :(
18:35 wizzyrea oh... sorry
18:35 * wizzyrea apologizes profusely
18:35 gmcharlt ;)
18:36 chris the only thing that annoys me, is the reducing anyone who disagrees with liblime to "a small group of developers" the rest of the FUD doesnt worry me so much
18:36 wizzyrea yea, you mean... the 60 or so of us that were here yesterady?
18:36 jdavidb There are more people in that "small group" than there are that *work* for LibLime.
18:36 wizzyrea which is no small group... would barely fit in our large meeting room
18:36 Nate joined #koha
18:37 chris wb Nate
18:37 Nate hey chris!
18:37 Nate dunno what happened there
18:37 wizzyrea it's kind of telling to me that "community" is being demonized :(
18:38 chris this your second week at bywater nate?
18:38 chris (fulltime that is)
18:38 Nate yes sir
18:38 chris wizzyrea: yeah, thats pretty nasty
18:38 chris Nate: hows it going? keeping ya busy?
18:38 Nate loving every minute of it
18:38 Nate submerged in the bywater
18:39 chris_n heh
18:40 chris excellent :)
18:40 Nate crazy about all of this liblime stuff
18:41 Nate kinda like when the hobbits returned home to the shire only to find it walled off and scoured by the evils of industrialization
18:41 gmcharlt hi Nate
18:41 chris hehe
18:41 Nate hi gmcharlt
18:41 chris speaking of the hobbit, the movie is all go again
18:42 Nate best news ive heard all day
18:42 Nate they better not mess it up
18:42 wizzyrea no doubt, but that's great
18:42 Nate I'm a bit of a fan if you haven't noticed
18:43 wizzyrea tell me they didn't demolish hobbiton....
18:43 wizzyrea though I guess it's been years
18:43 chris[…]ay-for-The-Hobbit
18:43 wizzyrea best use of an army ever
18:43 wizzyrea building hobbiton
18:43 Nate definately
18:43 chris the army were also orcs and uruk hai
18:43 chris in two towers, all those ones marching
18:43 chris who better to get to march in formation :)
18:44 Nate peter jackson looks skinny
18:44 chris wizzyrea: most of it's still there
18:44 wizzyrea i know! it's nuts! wth happened to him?
18:45 chris yeah he has lost a lot of weight
18:46 Nate he went from a dwarf to a wizard
18:46 chris nate: have i shown you my pictures from the return of the king premiere?
18:46 Nate no but I would love to see them
18:47 Nate you were there!? Luuckeee
18:47 chris[…]hp?g2_itemId=3564
18:49 * jdavidb sees the "Stamps and Coins" shop in the background, and drools a li'l.  Must go there during KohaCon '10.
18:50 Nate those are awsome!
18:51 Nate I shoudve been cast for the roll of pippin
18:51 chris[…]hp?g2_itemId=1001
18:51 chris we now have galadriel and nazguls in our christmas parades hehe
18:51 chris[…]hp?g2_itemId=1004
18:52 chris Nate: my brother in law died as an uruk hai in all 3 movies :)
18:52 chris i auditioned for a rider of rohan, couldnt ride well enough tho
18:52 wizzyrea didn't guillermo del toro do one of the harry potter movies?
18:52 wizzyrea the time travel one?
18:52 Nate man i would have loved to be in any part of those movies
18:53 Nate ive read all the books just about every year since i was nine
18:53 wizzyrea awww, one of the previews on the side was (I think) kahu pointing at something, very sweet picture
18:54 Nate im a little puney to be an uruk hai but i could have passed for a hobbit!
18:54 chris when all the orcs and uruk hai of the white hand are chanting before they go off to attack the hornburg
18:54 chris that was recorded at a cricket match in wellington
18:54 chris at the lunch break
18:54 wizzyrea hahahahaha
18:54 wizzyrea i think I saw that in the special features
18:54 Nate whaaat thats great
18:54 chris peter jackson came on the field, and got us all to stamp
18:54 chris and chant
18:54 chris so my voice is in there :)
18:55 magnusenger well here we are, confirming the myth of the Koha-techie-nerds... What next? SW and Hitchiker's? ;-)
18:56 Nate im moving to New Zealand so  im there in 30 years when they do a re-make
18:56 wizzyrea mean, exclusive, koha techie nerds, i think you mean
18:56 sekjal is there a link that will provide me with the date of the last patch submitted by LibLime?
18:57 cait discworld?
18:57 wizzyrea ehh, that point is proven, it's he said/he said at this point
18:57 magnusenger wizzyrea: yeah that goes without saying, doesn't it?
18:57 wizzyrea and it frankly doesn't matter who has done more
18:57 wizzyrea because that's the past, and this is now
18:57 chris ohh discworld, i love them too cait
18:58 chris sekjal: it would have been one from either atz or gmcharlt before they resigned
18:58 chris have to go back to march for the last one from joshua
18:58 chris but like wizzyrea says, i think that point has been made
18:59 sekjal ok.  I'm drafting something, and want to have as many references to back up what I say as possible.
18:59 chris and that people are willfully not understanding at this point
18:59 wizzyrea there was discussion this morning that only liblime does development for librarians, with librarians in mind
18:59 wizzyrea which is ludicrous
19:00 sekjal completely
19:00 wizzyrea (and I'm technically a customer and I think their behavior is appalling)
19:00 chris yeah
19:00 sekjal sorry, gtg, circ meeting.  be back in a bit
19:00 wizzyrea me too, staff meeting (nap time)
19:01 magnusenger so all the sponsored development - that's just libraries paying good money to let developers scratch their own itches?
19:01 Ropuch Wish i cuold take a nap at staff meetings... ;>/
19:01 wizzyrea that's the claim
19:01 collum wizzyrea: Huh? I was in a meeting all morning and missed that one.
19:03 chris collum: on the liblime users list .. are you on that?
19:04 hdl_laptop joined #koha
19:04 jdavidb Certainly none of the development we're doing is like that.  The libraries involved very definitely are driving it, with their dollars.
19:04 chris it seems most of the outrageously false stuff is being said there, where it cant be combated by the people being defamed/slandered
19:04 collum chris: nope
19:05 * chris_n works to grind out another non-librarian useful feature to generate patron cards
19:05 collum So an ILS can exist for 10 years without librarian/library input?
19:06 wizzyrea well, I would like to say that I truly appreciate all of the hard work you all do to generate features that librarians don't want
19:06 chris @quote 33
19:06 munin` chris: I've exhausted my database of quotes
19:06 gmcharlt @quote 34
19:06 munin` gmcharlt: I suck
19:06 gmcharlt @quote get 34
19:06 munin` gmcharlt: Quote #34: "<chris> oh except that time .. when katipo decided to write an ils just for fun, then forced HLT to use it" (added by gmcharlt at 06:23 PM, September 16, 2009)
19:06 chris_n wizzyrea: hehe
19:06 wizzyrea because if that's the case you've all been doing marvelously at guesswork
19:06 collum :)
19:06 chris_n coding blindfolded... there's a thought
19:07 cait Im with wizzyrea, koha is great software and I hope I can get more involved with it and the community
19:07 * jdavidb struggles with his nifty-new feature that librarians won't want--new books list in the OPAC with some syspref configurability..
19:07 brendan yeah I don't any librarians that are interested in that
19:08 * gmcharlt awaits first company to tout how their development is actually driven by _patrons_
19:08 chris hehe
19:08 wizzyrea hey, that would be epic
19:08 hdl_laptop hehe
19:08 hdl_laptop I think that nicomo would like that :)
19:08 brendan gmcharlt dully noted :)
19:08 chris[…]25-vokal-meeting/ looks interesting
19:09 chris brendan: will you be participating?
19:09 brendan yes I will
19:09 chris excellent
19:09 gmcharlt hdl_laptop: so, what are these strange non-library entities in France that BibLibre has been busily writing code for?
19:09 brendan hopefully talking about some development
19:09 chris make sure you ignore the librarians
19:09 brendan hehe
19:09 hdl_laptop gmcharlt: ?
19:09 brendan I'm excited -- maybe jessmyn will be there
19:10 gmcharlt hdl_laptop: a joke - see scrollback about 300 lines back for some interesting claims
19:10 * brendan always finds sometime to read her blog
19:12 wizzyrea hdl: omg, that firefox addon for offline circ = CAN. NOT. WAIT.
19:12 wizzyrea so...very...exciting
19:12 wizzyrea of course, it's precluded by actually getting patron db's occasionally.
19:12 wizzyrea sigh
19:12 * wizzyrea mutters something about her support company not being very responsive to requests for the patron sqlite data.
19:13 jdavidb they *still* don't have that right, wizzyrea ?
19:13 wizzyrea no. I think it died when you left
19:13 hdl_laptop wizzyrea: no, it doenot fetch patron table at the moment.
19:13 chris
19:13 hdl_laptop But maybe could.
19:13 jdavidb tacky, tacky...but I'm not surprised that they dropped it in the floor.  That is not the only one of my good ideas that fell thru.
19:13 chris ben gets it right ... but not for the reasons he thinks
19:14 jdavidb May have to join Twitter, just t point the Finger of Doom at him.
19:15 wizzyrea wowie.
19:18 chris_n hehe
19:20 chris for a guy who has yet to participate in the koha community at all, apart from to slander it, he certainly has a lot of opinions
19:23 chris[…]pment%3Agit_repos
19:24 chris this makes me happy
19:24 jdavidb Some persons are just pathologically unable to appreciate what others do.  The stuff they're involved in is all-important, and nothing else matters.  It may be that he's that sorta fellow.
19:24 chris i note biblibre's public repo is there now too
19:24 chris with all their topic branches
19:24 chris awesome
19:24 chris biblibre++
19:25 jdavidb chris, did you catch my announce after you left this morning?  We'll be standing one up in the next few days, too.  The chokepoint is me, now--only so many hours in a day.
19:26 chris w00t
19:26 chris public_repos++
19:26 chris and i like this blog post
19:26 chris[…]/koha-manoeuvres/
19:27 chris specifically
19:27 chris "Second, many of these developers are straight from the library community and the developer orientation – to the extent that you can imply it’s a dominating community feature  â€“ is and was needed due to the limited leadership and vision coming out of the library land to make sensible technology investment decisions. Without them, you can’t build something from nothing, and that libraries are somehow divorced from this process is ludicrous. You
19:29 slef bah, has an eyetest.  Meanies.
19:33 chris slef: you can buy 2000 captcha cracks for about $2 now
19:33 chris its a fairly ineffective anti spam method
19:34 brendan see you in a bit #koha
19:34 brendan left #koha
19:43 magnusenger god night #koha
19:44 jdavidb left #koha
19:49 collum left #koha
19:52 chris ok, time to catch my bus
19:52 chris cyas in a bit
19:52 chris keep up the ignoring
19:53 cait bye chris
19:53 magnusenger left #koha
19:54 chris oh before i go[…]-equinox-promise/
19:54 chris smart people
19:54 * chris goes now
19:54 owen joined #koha
19:58 chris_n equinox++
20:01 brendan joined #koha
20:03 brendan heya #koha
20:05 jwagner Hi brendan
20:06 brendan afternoon jwagner
20:09 jwagner Haven't had a chance to look at that diacritic stuff.  In my "someday" pile for now....
20:09 hdl_laptop equinox++
20:10 hdl_laptop jwagner: is there a bug you are referring to ?
20:10 jwagner No, just an email conversation I was having with brendan.
20:10 jwagner Sorry for the confusion.
20:10 brendan hdl_laptop -- I was having a little trouble with searching in OPAC
20:11 brendan for items with the diacritic é
20:12 brendan I thought that if I typed the author name danielou -- I should get back results with  " daniélou"
20:12 hdl_laptop Is this composed characters ?
20:12 jwagner And I've been having the same problems -- was hoping to pick his brain if he'd come up with anything.
20:12 hdl_laptop Or NFC ?
20:12 hdl_laptop Or NFD ?
20:12 brendan not sure what you mean composed characters --
20:13 gmcharlt brendan: composed means that a character with a diacritic is represented as a single Unicode code point
20:13 gmcharlt e.g., the character E WITH ACUTE
20:13 jwagner In my tests I've been cutting & pasting from text which had the diacritic.  Haven't tried composing one (you mean typing it on the keyboard with the Alt-whatever code?)
20:13 gmcharlt decomposed means that it represented as two separate Unicode code points
20:13 gmcharlt E, followed by COMBINING CHARACTER ACUTE
20:14 * gmcharlt isn't shouting, just taking it from the Unicode doc, btw ;)
20:14 hdl_laptop Maybe you should try and test word-phrase-utf8.chr from fr then.
20:14 brendan hdl_laptop that is where I ended up
20:14 hdl_laptop Another hint would be to use icu-chains
20:14 brendan was looking at the file - then got distracted
20:16 brendan thanks will add the icu-chains (when I get back to that project)
20:16 brendan I mean add looking at them :)
20:16 jwagner I remember seeing somewhere a config file where you could enter stuff like search the e with & without the acute -- is that the same file?
20:16 gmcharlt yes
20:17 jwagner OK, it's on my "look-at" pile when I dig out from under all the current stuff.
20:17 brendan yup -- so the defaults all look like that is already set
20:18 jwagner My site was looking at Korean characters.  Don't know if it will paste properly -- title starting with Usu?m kwa kamdong
20:18 cait we have hebre
20:18 cait w
20:18 ianB left #koha
20:18 cait it only worked after we changed indexing to icu
20:18 jwagner That's Usum with the sideways paren over the um part (sorry, don't know the names of all the diacritics)
20:18 cait i think you cant use this mentioned config file with icu
20:19 jwagner Do you mean you're using something other than Zebra for your indexing?
20:19 gmcharlt cait: right
20:19 cait zebra with icu
20:19 cait using a file from gmcharlt I think (when I remember correctly this time)
20:20 gmcharlt jwagner: ICU = C library that handles character normalization
20:20 gmcharlt Zebra is able to use it
20:20 jwagner Where do you set that up?
20:20 hdl_laptop there is one on domwip on biblibre repositori
20:20 cait I didnt - let my colleague do that, but I think there is a mail describing it
20:21 Nate left #koha
20:21 cait no it was hdl's file...[…]fzx+state:results
20:21 Nate joined #koha
20:22 Nate i gotta stop doing that
20:22 cait will I ever get this right? sorry hdl.. (again)
20:25 cait better go to bed now :) - good night #koha
20:25 * wizzyrea prays that this DB import works... stupid help desk software...
20:25 cait left #koha
20:27 wizzyrea ...sorry, had to bmw (b****, moan, whine)
20:31 owen left #koha
20:32 * wizzyrea wonders if there is an OTRS irc channel...
20:32 * wizzyrea wanders off to find it
20:33 wizzyrea <mumble> <groan>
20:36 jwagner wizzyrea sounds like she needs a chocolate fix...
20:38 wizzyrea this is definitely possible
20:38 jwagner Would you settle for a virtual chocolate bar?
20:41 * chris_n commits some initial work on the new patron card creator
20:42 chris_n it should be available in my public repo after 0600 UTC 17/09/09
20:42 * chris_n hopes that's not holding it back too long... ;-) crontab only works so fast
20:43 wizzyrea jwagner: it's the thought that counts :) at least you made me smile
20:43 richard joined #koha
20:43 richard hi
20:43 wizzyrea chris_n: I dunno... we want our code and we want it NOW
20:43 wizzyrea ;) jk
20:43 chris_n hehe
20:44 chris_n but it's only half-baked and has not been 'vetted' yet....
20:45 chris_n actually the module test script generates a nice pdf with a patron card full of default values
20:45 chris_n @later tell slef patron card work for 3.2 is under way
20:45 munin` chris_n: The operation succeeded.
20:46 chris_n bbl
20:48 Jo joined #koha
20:50 chris back
20:54 chris good god
20:54 chris is ben being paid by liblime?
20:54 hdl_laptop gmcharlt: about C4/ ?
20:54 chris he's commenting everywhere he can
20:55 jwagner chris, where now?
20:55 chris jo ransoms blog
20:55 chris go after the original koha library .. he's all class
20:55 chris http://library-matters.blogspo[…]e-forks-koha.html
20:55 hdl_laptop I could put principal_name and $userldapentry->dn as default.
20:56 sekjal left #koha
20:56 * chris comments too
20:57 chris i deleted my first comment
20:57 chris which was
20:57 jwagner chris, one of my favorite t-shirts is from the thinkgeek site.  It's the SQL query shirt -- select * from users where clue > 0 (0 rows returned)
20:57 chris "Ben maybe you are too busy attacking people on the liblime mailing list to read the rest of the thread from that email you posted, its far from categorically untrue"
20:59 gmcharlt hdl_laptop: that woudl work, I think
20:59 hdl_laptop So Resend ?
20:59 gmcharlt please
21:01 jwagner Good night all....
21:01 jwagner left #koha
21:03 magnusenger joined #koha
21:03 magnusenger left #koha
21:09 hdl_laptop sent
21:12 chris hdl_laptop: do you think we should merge the maintenance branch back into 3.0x
21:12 hdl_laptop yes.
21:12 hdl_laptop Will do it right away
21:12 chris fabulous
21:14 hdl_laptop there may be still some caveats though.
21:15 chris oh yeah, we need to do some good testing
21:15 chris its software freedom day on sunday
21:15 hdl_laptop But would be less dangerous than leaving this branch as broken as it is.
21:15 richard oh yep. chris are you heading along?
21:15 chris complete with a hackfest
21:15 chris im gonna see if i can get some testing/fixing of 3.0.x branch there
21:15 chris yep, you too richard?
21:16 richard yep
21:17 hdl_laptop Circulation would be the more tricky to test
21:17 hdl_laptop and the more important too
21:17 chris yep, i have been testing that
21:17 schuster My head hurts need to go home.
21:17 chris spotya later schuster
21:18 chris oops i shoulda ignored him, he is a librarian
21:18 * chris forgets the rules already
21:18 schuster be nice - I do have a minor in computer science, but wouldn't wave that in front of anyone...;)
21:19 schuster left #koha
21:22 Nate left #koha
21:22 brendan Well there is a response from a LL customer -- quoting Josh
21:23 brendan on the mailing list
21:27 chris well all uncertainty is gone then
21:27 chris it is a fork
21:27 chris no 2 ways about it
21:30 hdl_laptop If one really wants to remove customer sensitive data from files, they could.
21:30 hdl_laptop chris pushed
21:31 wizzyrea sigh
21:31 wizzyrea at least it's over
21:32 chris yep, i hope someone responds to say that, ill give it a few hours then i might thank daniel for confirming it
21:39 chris hdl_laptop: awesome !!!
21:43 chris_n2 jerks--
21:43 chris_n2 opps....
21:44 chris heh
21:45 chris_n2 interesting, Asterisk turns 10 this year
21:45 chris asterisk rules
21:47 * brendan <-----  want's clarification on "eventually" - from what I know - "eventually" = "never"
21:48 brendan oh well -- time to settle in and do some work -- turn off the koha soap opera for the moment
21:56 chris_n2 imho the strongest rebuke to LL now would be for their customers to either go "in-house" or with another vendor
21:57 * chris_n2 can't stand doing business with businesses with little to no character, no matter how much I may appreciate their past contributions
21:57 chris i hear ya chris_n2
21:57 wizzyrea very long contracts for some of us :(
21:58 chris_n2 another alternative would be to demand source code per contractual agreement
21:59 chris_n2 if it was not produced.... breach of contract
21:59 jdavidb joined #koha
21:59 moodaepo chris_n2 depends on what the contract says
22:01 * jdavidb thinks that one other nice thing about this community is that it is rarely dull.  ;-)
22:01 chris heh
22:02 jdavidb So there it is; as soon as that slacker jdavidb gets off his tail and gets PTFS's repo up, LL will be the only one of the big busy vendors without one.
22:03 moodaepo PTFS?
22:03 chris and they have confirmed they will never have one
22:03 jdavidb <--  works for PTFS :
22:03 moodaepo aaah yes I am fairly new but I did know that : )
22:05 jdavidb :)
22:05 chris i wonder if they ahve a different repo for each customer
22:05 jdavidb They didn't, when I was there.
22:06 chris they better, or they are mixing up client sensitive data with other client sensitive datea
22:06 collum joined #koha
22:06 chris of course, this only holds if i believe that is the reason why, and of course i dont
22:06 jdavidb right.
22:06 chris the lies are becoming more thin and transparent every day
22:07 rhcl I'm trying to stay very much on the sideline, but from watching this it reaffirms that there are some advantages to keeping your server in-house rather than hosted.
22:07 chris rhcl++
22:07 jdavidb It's kinda like watching a video of a car crash; you *know* it is going to end horribly, but you just can't tear your eyes away...
22:07 jdavidb rhcl++
22:08 brendan ha -- jdavidb  -- so true
22:09 brendan I think -- how quickly can you run a company into the ground ???
22:09 jdavidb In this deeply-inbred industry?  Doesn't take long.  Word gets around in a hurry.
22:09 brendan ok admit -- maybe a little to harsh -- like the car crash a little bit more
22:09 rhcl Waldo seems to have put some serious coin in their pocket..that could last a while.
22:10 chris thats contingent on LL having anyone left to do the work rhcl
22:10 jdavidb True enough, rhcl, 'specially since they have no staff to pay....  Lose a couple more, and PTFS's Koha team will be bigger than LL's.
22:10 chris biblibre's already is
22:11 chris not an order of magnitude tho :-)
22:11 rhcl But I assume they've been hiring?
22:11 chris rhcl: we'd be the last to know, since the wont be on the mailing lists, irc or submitting patches
22:11 jdavidb They have an ad up on their website, but I don't think much of their chances to hire anyone.
22:12 chris i cant see that many open source programmers queueing up to work on a vendor fork
22:12 jdavidb They'd have to grab someone young and dumb, and that won't help much.
22:12 jdavidb (someone who buys the Kool-Aid from management, too)
22:12 chris now that joshua has officially confirmed the fork, i feel free to speak my mind
22:12 moodaepo or there are always proprietary ones who can be brought into the company
22:13 chris just to explain why i am being so frank
22:13 rhcl chris: and you've been holding back!!! :_
22:13 brendan chris++
22:13 jdavidb chris++
22:13 * brendan listening
22:13 brendan :)
22:13 moodaepo How long did it take to run LL into the ground by the way
22:13 chris moodaepo: i dont know of many proprietary perl programmers .. i guess there must be some though ;)
22:14 moodaepo I actually have a friend with the darkside who uses's the bsd license which is attractive. Another one uses it at UBS.
22:15 jdavidb moodaepo:  As I see it, the wheels started to fall off about last Christmas.  The crash-landing isn't complete yet, so maybe a year, by the time it all falls over.
22:15 rhcl Hey, does anybody know/remember who it was that released the Koha VM iso?
22:15 chris BSD is not copyleft, but its still open source
22:15 chris yep, lemme find the link rhcl
22:15 jdavidb Kyle, wasn't it?
22:15 brendan yes Kyle
22:15 chris kyle did one
22:15 chris
22:16 brendan and the livecd
22:16 chris this one is the most recent i know of
22:16 rhcl We're having a heck of a time setting static IP addresses with it.
22:16 chris ahh the VM one, is kyle yep
22:16 chris ping him on the mailing list
22:20 hdl_laptop left #koha
22:20 hdl_laptop joined #koha
22:26 chris_n2 well, I had to post a response :-P
22:27 chris_n2 bbl
22:27 chris_n2 is now known as chris_n2-away
22:27 chris chris_n2++
22:28 chris that is a wonderful response
22:31 collum excellent response chris_n2
22:34 brendan chris_n2-away++
22:41 hdl_laptop left #koha
22:52 rhcl is now known as rhcl_away
22:52 jdavidb left #koha
22:56 chris poor owen
22:56 chris
22:57 chris how did joe wilson get on the liblime users list i wonder
22:57 gmcharlt it's a peculiarly USian thing, I think, that the term socialist is a deadly insult
22:57 chris oh yeah, over here thats a compliment
22:58 chris its like "oh you care about people other than yourself"
22:58 brendan yup I agree with gmcharlt - that's an insult here
22:58 chris brendan: yep im sure they meant it as insult
22:58 chris ad hominem = you lost
22:58 brendan *sigh*
23:10 Jo whoah ..
23:10 Jo jjust read my emails
23:11 Jo Chris_n2 message was pretty hnoinest
23:11 chris yeah
23:12 chris i wish that the supporters could show the same level of intellectual honesty
23:12 chris (supporters of the fork that is)
23:13 chris for librarians, they seem spectularly unable to do basic research
23:13 chris labouring under the delusion liblime created koha, and that no one else ever has had anything to do with it
23:14 chris and that even if they had, it would be without any input from libraries/librarians
23:14 Jo well liblime kminds encouraged that myth
23:14 Jo hence why we had to stick to our guns with the code4lib story
23:14 chris of course, but its not hard to disprove with some basic research
23:15 chris its also telling that the biggest detractors of the community, are those that have chosen never to become involved
23:17 chris anyone who resorts to calling someone a socialist as if it was an insult, probably has a tenuous grasp on reality anyway
23:17 * chris is over this bullshit
23:17 chris can you tell?
23:21 Jo yep :)
23:21 Jo i am too tobe honest
23:22 Jo i think joshua has made his bed now and will have to lie in it.
23:22 brendan overthisbullshit++
23:22 brendan hi Jo
23:23 brendan little embarrassed for my home state (ben ide) is from the same state that I grew up in
23:29 Jo waves at Brendan ;)
23:30 Jo (still feeling very warm towards to Brendan for hiring Nicole :)
23:30 brendan YAY -- we are so excited
23:30 brendan nengard++
23:31 brendan Nicole will help us out so much
23:31 brendan And we are going encourage her to get more involved in the community -- if that is even possbile
23:37 Jo enough picking over old bones - off to do real work now - librarian work ... not developer work :) (coz you know, they are like the bad guys :)
23:37 chris hehe
23:37 gmcharlt socialist non-librarian developers of the world, unite!
23:43 brendan United !!
23:44 brendan Looking for a KOHA socialist t-shirt to send to owen

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