IRC log for #koha, 2009-05-19

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
12:28 gmcharlt good morning
12:31 hdl_laptop hi gm
13:14 ort9217 hi, anyone in here right now that might be able to answer some questions of mine?
13:15 hdl_laptop some of us are here.
13:15 ort9217 ok, cool
13:15 ort9217 so i was wondering if its possible to dictate the path of the opac
13:16 ort9217 for example, have it be http://<hostname>/<something i dictate>
13:16 ort9217 and then have some other web service run on the server
13:16 ort9217 and have it serve up /
13:17 ort9217 like, say, mediawiki?
13:17 ort9217 i know with evergreen, it isn't possible
13:17 ort9217 it "totally hijacks apache," so to speak
13:18 ort9217 the best you can do is put some html/php docs in /openils/var/web/otherStuffThatIsntOpac
13:19 ort9217 or else symlink that to some dir elsewhere
13:20 slefmobile hi all - not tried IRC from pidgin before
13:20 paul_p hi slefmobile :D
13:20 paul_p (all: slef is sitting on the chair right from me :D )
13:21 owen Hi slefmobile and paul_p. Where are you guys?
13:21 slefmobile London event
13:21 slefmobile I beat paul_p at typing
13:21 paul_p :D
13:21 slefmobile noisy venue at lunch, so with my French and his English => hopeless
13:23 gmcharlt ort9217: with some Apache config work, you can server other apps off of the same virtual host that serves the Koha OPAC
13:23 slefmobile paul_p just got picked out as koha's RM in reply by a PTFS developer to a question
13:23 gmcharlt PTFS seems a bit out of date :)
13:23 slefmobile to be frank, I'd be going slightly crimson with irritation if I hadn't seen it all before
13:24 slefmobile lots of slightly-wrong info being disseminated
13:24 slefmobile South West Wales Higher Ed Partnership introducing the Virtual Academic Library now.. might or might not be anything to do with us
13:24 gmcharlt ort9217: and you can probably mod_rewrite your way into having a http://<hostname>/<whatever you want> for the OPAC, but there will still be a lot of links to /cgi-bin/koha/foo
13:25 slefmobile You could overcome that with mod_proxy_html but it really is tons simpler to use a few extra VirtualHosts
13:26 slefmobile (sorry I missed the start of the Q)
13:26 slefmobile just remembered how to connect to slef... brbr
13:27 slef aha
13:32 slef well that stopped the conversation... even paul_p put his laptop down now
13:45 owen I wonder if this is an example of Bug 3219?[…]blionumber=208592
13:45 owen ...and I wonder if there's any way to tell without seeing the log?
13:48 gmcharlt owen: possibly - twiddling the Amazon syspref would probably answer
13:54 owen Hmmm...that was weird. The only thing that changed when I turned off Amazon content was that I was prompted to download the Perl script instead of just getting nothing.
13:56 slef owen: that means the script crashed with 0 bytes output most times
13:56 slef was a particular pain during 2.2 for us
13:56 slef see if you get a 0-byte download
13:57 slef about to put laptop to sleep again now
13:57 owen I get a file full of junk characters
13:58 slef oh wow
13:58 slef file /path/to/downloaded/file
13:58 slef does that give a clue?
13:59 slef anyway, it sounds like a bug... also check opac-error_log
14:00 slef question for the assembled throng: should I suggest that OpenLibraries become a democratic foundation for open source library software?
14:00 slef I call myself MJ but it is still a bit freaky sitting in a presentation discussing MARC a lot
14:01 gmcharlt slef:
14:01 slef Uni Strathclyde want to launch professional development course in Koha
14:02 slef gmcharlt: aye
14:02 slef gmcharlt: PTFS + Ken Chad Consulting event vehicle at the moment
14:02 gmcharlt slef: do you have any expectation that such a suggestion would be taken seriously?
14:02 slef gmcharlt: expect the worst, hope for the best
14:03 slef gmcharlt: (in other words no, based on how happily my last email suggesting opening it up was received)
14:03 gmcharlt slef: or tweak people's noses with the best of them? ;)
14:03 slef gmcharlt: but pearls are formed from repetitive irritation
14:04 owen Tell that to my shoes.
14:04 slef and I have no idea whether I'm joking there
14:04 gmcharlt slef: go for it, but a practical basis for a foundation is more likely an existing pan-EU library org whose membership is actual libraries
14:07 slef after this Uni Strathclyde session, there's an Ex Libris person, then Talis, then Q+As
14:08 gmcharlt slef: besides Koha, did Strathclyde announces courses for any other FOSS library software?
14:09 slef gmcharlt: not as I understood it, but I'm trying to answer customer emails at the same time. Will ask later (I have contacts but not customers at Strathclyde already IIRC0
14:10 slef hehehe we've got a Director of Marketing now, whose second slide was legal small print clicked through faster than anyone can read... given what Mike(?) from indexdata said in his presentation this AM, bet she regrests that
14:12 slef gar... do I suspend the laptop now or hope that I can get a power-point on the train home?
14:16 ort9217 hrmmm... anyone get an answer to my question earlier?
14:17 gmcharlt [09:23]  <gmcharlt> ort9217: with some Apache config work, you can server other apps off of the same virtual host that serves the Koha OPAC
14:17 gmcharlt [09:24]  <gmcharlt> ort9217: and you can probably mod_rewrite your way into having a http://<hostname>/<whatever you want> for the OPAC, but there will still be a lot of links to /cgi-bin/koha/foo
14:17 gmcharlt [09:25]  <slefmobile> You could overcome that with mod_proxy_html but it really is tons simpler to use a few extra VirtualHosts
14:17 gmcharlt [09:26]  <slefmobile> (sorry I missed the start of the Q)
14:18 gmcharlt trying again
14:18 gmcharlt [09:23]  <gmcharlt> ort9217: with some Apache config work, you can server other apps off of the same virtual host that serves the Koha OPAC
14:18 gmcharlt [09:24]  <gmcharlt> ort9217: and you can probably mod_rewrite your way into having a http://<hostname>/<whatever you want> for the OPAC, but there will still be a lot of links to /cgi-bin/koha/foo
14:18 gmcharlt [09:25]  <slefmobile> You could overcome that with mod_proxy_html but it really is tons simpler to use a few extra VirtualHosts
14:18 gmcharlt [09:26]  <slefmobile> (sorry I missed the start of the Q)
14:19 ort9217 alright, thanks, gmcharlt
14:19 ort9217 is this channel logged anywhere?
14:19 slef has a link
14:19 slef OTTOMH
14:20 slef ok detaching for a few hours or more
14:20 gmcharlt cya
14:20 owen I'll be interested to hear more about the day slef
14:23 kf owen: I like your new software-icon! we use the bridge icon set in our current opac - may I replace the old floppy disc with your new software icon?
14:26 ort9217 gmcharlt: actually, would you mind elaborating a bit?
14:26 ort9217 as someone who isn't really an apache whiz, how much googlking around would that take to implement?
14:26 gmcharlt ort9217: some - the default vhost config that comes with Koha includes some examples of mod_rewrite
14:27 owen kf, I'm not sure what you mean by replace?
14:27 ort9217 and by 'someone who isn't really an apache whiz,' i mean 'someone who would need to look up almost every one of the technical terms relating specifically to apache in your explanation'
14:27 ort9217 like an hour?
14:27 ort9217 20 mins?
14:29 ort9217 gmcharlt?
14:29 gmcharlt probably a bit longer than an hour if you're starting from scratch with no knowledge of Apache
14:29 gmcharlt and I'm sorry, but I don't have time at the moment to walk you through it
14:29 gmcharlt perhaps others on channel can help
14:30 ort9217 i can (and have) follow simple instructions, so i guess im familiar with the locations and syntax of certain a2 config & log files, but thats about it
14:31 ort9217 i just dont have any /understanding/ per se of what goes on
14:32 kf owen: display software-icon instead of floppy disc - but not in Koha, but our current opac
14:32 ort9217 (when it has to do with apache, i'm plenty knowledgable about other technical topics)
14:33 owen kf: the new icons were created by a Koha-using library based on the original set, found here:[…]ary/bridge_icons/
14:33 owen I committed them on their behalf.
14:33 ort9217 gmcharlt, do you know of any good resources that i can start with, to learn the basic paradigm of how things work in apache?
14:33 kf owen: so they are still free to use
14:34 owen yes, of course!
14:34 kf owen: I just wanted to make sure, because they are not listed on the project page yet.
14:35 owen gmcharlt: Note on the link above for the Bridge icons that they require attribution, and we don't have any mechanism for that
14:35 kf owen: and we have a link to the project page in the opac - ouf course
14:35 gmcharlt owen: is attribution via an about page sufficient?
14:35 gmcharlt or does it require a link on every page that displays the icons
14:36 owen I'm not sure,but it's the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 2.5 License
14:36 owen Their page says simply "you must provide attribution on your site"
14:37 owen I guess what we need then is an About page for the OPAC
14:37 wizzyrea ort: for starters
14:37 gmcharlt sounds like it
14:39 ort9217 wizzyrea: i've tried poking around a little on the official website, but you end up having to piece stuff together, much like technical information on wikipedia
14:40 ort9217 its like a reference book, but what i'm looking for is more of a beginner's tutorial
14:40 ort9217 any others?
14:41 slef there's a guide in the apache docs as well as the ref man
14:43 ort9217 btw, this is sooo awesome
14:43 ort9217[…]er_Avian_Carriers
14:43 ort9217 and thanks, i'm about to check it out
14:47 gmcharlt owen: agreed re about page for OPAC
14:48 schuster Clarification needed on the "sounds" patch that is coming...
14:49 schuster Will that be part of 3.2 with the Java circ pieces or earlier?
14:49 schuster Sounds at checkin that is.
14:49 gmcharlt schuster: most likely
14:52 ort9217 alright, thanks for the help, all... i'm out
14:59 slef who from koha is working on jangle?
15:00 gmcharlt slef: I'm not sure if anybody is actively working on it
15:00 gmcharlt biblibre, maybe, if they're playing with it in conjunction with their SOPAC work
15:00 gmcharlt it's something that's on my (long) backburner list to look into eventually
15:03 slef ok
15:55 pianohacker morning
16:00 gmcharlt hi pianohacker
16:00 pianohacker hello
16:00 pianohacker Do you have a little bit of time to talk about an architecture problem?
16:01 gmcharlt sure
16:05 pianohacker Okay
16:05 pianohacker Working on a project to set hold fees by itype
16:06 pianohacker adding a 'reservefee' column to issuingrules was a possibility, but it would mean that three different kinds of rules would be in the same table
16:07 pianohacker What would you think of splitting issuingrules into two tables, issuingrules and finerules, and adding a new table, holdrules? This would involve that UNIQUE hack I discussed a while back, but could theoretically work
16:09 gmcharlt pianohacker: please look at this[…]c32_circ_policies
16:09 gmcharlt regarding adding reservefee to issuingrules as a starting point
16:09 gmcharlt I don't actually have a problem with that
16:10 gmcharlt as thus far the interpretation of checkout rules & fine rules by branch/itype/patron category hasn't been a problem
16:10 pianohacker This idea does sound good
16:10 gmcharlt since the table doesn't have bunches of longtext columns
16:10 gmcharlt adding columns isn't a big cost
16:11 gmcharlt better *naming* of the columns may be called for, of course
16:11 pianohacker One would hope :)
16:13 gmcharlt afk, bbiab
19:08 slef on the train home after - guess paul_p will be airborne now
19:10 slef that's a crazy station building but so few people stop to see it
19:17 owen How was the rest of the day slef?
19:20 slef a little better and a good chat with paul_p but the event didn't finish brilliantly for me
19:20 slef they didn't take Q+As about openlibraries - preferred to finish earlier
19:21 slef I'm about to go into Box Tunnel, so I'm signing off again in a tick
19:21 slef back in 2 or 3 hours
19:22 slef (rther - I'll fall off the network in a tick)
19:34 hdl_laptop1 gmcharlt: I juste sent to you some patches which includes the refactoring engaged on C4/ and C4/
19:37 gmcharlt hdl_laptop1: got them
19:58 pianohacker Does "branch" being verboten apply to cronjob options and usage messages?
19:59 gmcharlt batch job messages and options are still part of the UI, so we should be consistent with the 'library' usage where possible
19:59 chris morning
20:00 gmcharlt hi chris
20:00 chris course in the en_NZ translation it says libraries or branches in a lot of places now :)
20:01 chris but yeah id go with the default saying just library
20:02 brendan heya #koha
20:02 pianohacker Hi
20:02 chris hey there brendan
20:03 brendan afternoon - pianohacker, chris, gmcharlt
20:03 gmcharlt hi brendan
20:04 chris owen: hows being back at work going?
20:04 slef moo
20:04 owen I can't tell which is busier, home or work
20:05 chris heh, probably home :)
20:05 slef marc
20:05 pianohacker slef: "245 $a Milk /" ?
20:06 rhcl slef: whats the G.W.R. Paddington building?
20:07 slef marc21 authorities
20:07 slef bloody tunnels
20:08 slef rhcl: train station
20:08 rhcl ah, ic
20:08 slef in london for trains to west country
20:09 wizzyrea gmcharlt: where do you set the global default for the messaging settings?
20:09 wizzyrea (I think I"m looking right past it)
20:09 slef and south wales and cotswolds and thames valley
20:10 gmcharlt wizzyrea: no such thing - defaults are per patron category
20:10 wizzyrea Ah so there is no global default gotya
20:11 slef back in Somerset now. ergo the disconnects
20:11 wizzyrea er, global default is 'no messaging"
20:11 gmcharlt wizzyrea: yeah, hardcoded that way for new and existing patron categories
20:11 wizzyrea cool, just wanted to make sure
20:11 wizzyrea thx muchas
20:16 wizzyrea re: patron import, the CSV file should have the columns for messaging added maybe?
20:17 wizzyrea good idea? bad idea?
20:17 gmcharlt in principle, OK
20:17 gmcharlt not sure how often it would actually be needed
20:17 owen How would OpenID authentication for the OPAC work? Would you have to first tie an existing OpenID identity to your Koha patron record?
20:18 gmcharlt owen: pretty much
20:18 wizzyrea i'll add that to the enhancement bug report just so it's noted for the future. It's not a big deal
20:18 gmcharlt or rather, the patron can do that
20:18 wizzyrea just like things to be complete and consistent :P
20:18 gmcharlt wizzyrea: actually, a separate bug would be better
20:18 wizzyrea okies
20:18 wizzyrea will do that
20:19 gmcharlt otherwise I can't experience the joy of ticking the original one closed ;)
20:19 gmcharlt owen: basically, it would be a matter of doing *something* to authenticate the patron the first time to Koha
20:20 gmcharlt but once set up, it does allow the patron to forget whatever PIN or password originally assigned by the library
20:22 wizzyrea hehe! well I wouldn't want to deny you that glee, gmcharlt
20:26 pianohacker If implemented well, that might actually be very useful
20:27 pianohacker You could advertise it as "use your yahoo password to log in to koha" or some such; I think even my slightly... rural community might get into it
20:27 chris *nod*
20:29 chris lenora is gonna file an enhancement at
20:29 gmcharlt cool
20:30 gmcharlt although I wonder to what extent OpenIDs are actually used outside of early adopters and school and university systems
20:31 gmcharlt in any event, marketing it as "fewer passwords to remember" may be slightly better than "use your foo password to log into the catalog"
20:31 chris yeah but if you can get said early adopters and school and uni students using your public library
20:31 chris win win win
20:32 pianohacker And there is work being done on the UI side of it:[…]_OpenID_Confusion
20:32 gmcharlt as the latter can turn into (a) people reading that statement too literally or (b) wondering if the library is going to be able to check their Yahoo mail or the like
20:33 chris yep, you can have an how do this work link
20:33 chris where you explain its openid for those who are curious
20:33 chris but market it as less passwords to remember
20:33 chris how do this work ... good england there
20:34 gmcharlt don't blame an entire country for your typing, chris ;)
20:36 chris they shouldnt have colonised nz if they didnt want to get the blame :)
20:55 chris morning jo
20:55 Jo good morning Chris
21:02 gmcharlt chris: do you have any examples or screenshots of what catalogue/ and opac/ where supposed to do?
21:02 chris nope
21:02 chris i have no idea what they are
21:03 gmcharlt well, at the moment nonfunctional
21:03 gmcharlt and have been that way since 2.2.x
21:03 chris git blame tells me paul might know
21:03 chris not something i have ever looked at
21:06 Jo The proposed new enhancement proposed for automatic credit refund of a lost book which turns up ... we have this working now in 2.9.
21:06 chris 2.2.9 :)
21:06 Jo it must have been dropped out in 3.0 but shouldn't be that hard to resurrect should it Chris?
21:06 Jo oops ... 2.2.9
21:06 chris nothing is that hard :)
21:06 chris its just a matter of resource
21:07 Jo cool. and we will have to find that resource then because we do want it.
21:07 chris yay!
21:07 Jo yay!
21:07 Jo the bug is asking for co-funders.
21:07 Jo someone might even go in with us!
21:14 schuster Enhancement process at work!  There may be someone out there that has already funded it too - that's part of the problem we don't know who is doing what at the moment.
21:16 Jo Schuster: its an old old standard feature from Koha 2.x
21:17 Jo we;ve had it for at least 8 years I would think.
21:21 schuster Well it's gone now!  #3.0.x
21:22 schuster So is the spelling helper in pac gone.
21:22 chris the fines have changed in 3.0 (the way they are stored) and are changing again for the better for 3.2 so we would need to do a bit of work to make it work properly
21:22 chris but certainly doable
21:22 schuster I thought I would start with that enhancement and then work my way down the list.
21:23 schuster That is also part of the problem with 3.2 who is sponsoring what - some of this may be covered already but only a developer would know.
21:23 chris sounds good, if they are in bugzilla then they wont get missed
21:23 schuster (the developer working on it that is...)
21:23 chris *nod*
21:23 schuster Yep and then we wouldn't have 3 people working on similar problems... waisting those valuable programming minutes!
21:29 wizzyrea Schuster ++
21:29 wizzyrea verra naiiice
21:30 schuster Off to ponder other enhancements and how we can get more done with less time!
21:32 pianohacker bye
03:19 Amit hi brendan, chris, mason
03:19 Amit good morning
03:19 brendan heya amit
03:30 Jo hiya Amit
03:31 Amit hi Jo
04:37 chris any liblimers about?
05:46 elwell ... or any biblibrians?
05:46 elwell wondered if they were attending
05:47 elwell seems to have a bit of a public admin / education slant. Course, I haven't looked at the cost of attending yet
06:20 chris nicomo: did you see what elwell posted?
06:20 chris <--- work for anyone?
06:22 elwell chris: not for me earlier
06:22 elwell 502 (ditto with www.)
06:25 chris ywah
06:26 chris been done for a while now
06:27 chris done=down
06:30 nicomo hi all, hi chris and elwell
06:30 nicomo chris: what as it you wanted me to see?
06:31 chris ah the conference in switzerland
06:32 chris
06:36 nicomo we won't be there
06:36 nicomo but i didn't know this conf existed
06:36 nicomo and it's about 2 hrs train for me from Lyon
06:36 nicomo next year maybe
06:37 elwell yeah - somewhat late notice I guess for this ye
06:38 nicomo yep, I have stuff scheduled for these dates already
06:38 nicomo but then i probably should have spotted this conf earlier myself
06:38 nicomo chris: "I personally think that internal storage is irrelevant, ie we dont need to
06:38 nicomo store the records in MARC format. As long as we can import from and export
06:38 nicomo to MARC record format."
06:39 nicomo ++ to that (2001)
06:39 nicomo problem is : whan the RFP requires that the system be internally in Marc,
06:39 nicomo what is one supposed to do?
06:39 nicomo Convince the library that their request is really irrelevant? :-)
06:40 chris yeah, tell them to get off the drugs :-)
06:40 chris i know what you mean though, sometimes you have to do things you know are stupid, to meet what a client thinks they need
06:41 chris doesnt mean you have to like it though :-)
06:52 nicomo right : and i don't
06:52 nicomo but then I see national libraries and such thinking about RDA and I put my head in the sand
06:54 chris yeah
07:41 chris right that's kahu asleep
07:44 kf morning chris
07:49 hdl_laptop hi chris
07:50 chris hi kf and hdl_laptop
08:14 kf hi there, I m doing some research atm how to handle records catalogued in German and Hebrew using field 880
08:15 kf I need to get those 880 fields displayed and searchable, but not sure if its necessary to move them out of 880 to 9xx fields or if I can import them just as they are
08:18 soul9 so you want zebra to index 880?
08:19 soul9 doesn't look like 880 is used in either unimarc or marc21, so you'll need to customize /etc/zebradb/marc_defs/marc21/biblios/record.abs or /etc/zebradb/marc_defs/unimarc/biblios/record.abs
08:20 kf yes, but I think its more difficult than that
08:23 soul9 after that i guess you have to add it to a framework
08:26 kf my problem is, that I want to integrate it
08:26 kf so 880 //245... can be searched in title index
08:27 kf and 880 footnotes in footnotes... etc.
08:28 kf and I must change xslt-files for opac-display
08:28 kf wondering if this is something other libraries might be interested too
08:38 Hui_Nan_ hi all
08:38 Hui_Nan_ after make install I run git status
08:38 Hui_Nan_ it says
08:38 Hui_Nan_ # On branch 3.0.x
08:38 Hui_Nan_ # Untracked files:
08:38 Hui_Nan_ #   (use "git add <file>..." to include in what will be committed)
08:38 Hui_Nan_ #
08:38 Hui_Nan_ #       Makefile
08:38 Hui_Nan_ #       blib/
08:38 Hui_Nan_ #       pm_to_blib
08:38 Hui_Nan_ #       t/test-config.txt
08:39 Hui_Nan_ should not all these files be in .git/.gitignore?
08:41 Hui_Nan_ .git/info/.gitignore
08:41 Hui_Nan_ of course
08:43 slef probably should be
08:44 slef gmcharlt: whoever else: seems down 502 Bad Gateway
08:44 slef gmcharlt: owen: facebook starting to allow OpenID logins AIUI
08:45 chris slef: its been down for a while, ... and did you see the enhancement request to allow ppl to authenticate to the opac via OpenID ?
08:50 hdl_laptop kf: everything you neeed, you can propose the community.
08:50 hdl_laptop koha-patches list is open
08:52 kf hdl: propose?
08:53 chris kf: i think it would be something other libraries would be interested in, and i think hdl is suggesting you write a mail to koha-devel, or koha-patches .. or make a page on the wiki with the idea and see if others are interested
08:58 kf ok
09:09 hdl_laptop kf
09:09 hdl_laptop in fact : you can open a bug on bugzilla
09:09 hdl_laptop and propose that as enhancement.
09:10 hdl_laptop And if you happen to make the change in your code, you can then make a patch out of it and either send it on koha-patches
09:10 kf but first I have to do a little bit more research
09:10 hdl_laptop or attach it to the bug
09:13 kf got example data today, will try to import it later :)
11:51 Hui_Nan_ could anyone say how to format-patch of the last 3 commits?
11:53 soul9 git format-patch firstrev..lastrev
11:53 Hui_Nan_ ok
11:54 gmcharlt git format-patch HEAD^^^ # lot's of options :)
11:54 Hui_Nan_ I didn't noticed an '..' operator $-)
11:54 Hui_Nan_ thank you!
11:59 Hui_Nan_ huh, the first three patches!
11:59 Hui_Nan_ $-)

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