IRC log for #koha, 2008-04-04

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
12:13 nengard question for manual: do we have a list of template files and what they each control?
12:18 paul nengard: hello.
12:18 nengard hi paul
12:18 paul could you be more specific ? I don't understand your question...
12:19 paul there is no "manual" nick here, so I think the question was for anyone, about "the" manual ;-)
12:19 nengard i want to put together a list of all template files and what part of the system them control - so if i'm a user and i want to change the staff client look and feel i can easily find what file to go to
12:19 paul wow... a very huge task!
12:19 paul the general rule is :
12:19 nengard sorry - i'm writing the manual - so i have a question about writing the manual
12:20 paul the template has the same name than the perl script it relies on.
12:20 nengard ah
12:20 nengard that's good to know
12:20 paul there are some exception, but they should tend to 0 in the future, imho
12:21 nengard thanks for the tip!!
12:21 paul some more tips...
12:21 paul the css directory contains the css
12:22 paul the includes directory contains the parts of the template that are used in many places.
12:22 paul like, for example "" => the toolbar displayed in every "catalogue screen"
12:23 paul it's very powerfull : if you want to add an action, just edit the file, and it will be available everywhere where it is meaningfull
12:28 nengard thanks
14:17 fbcit g'morning #koha
14:17 gmcharlt hi fbcit
14:17 gmcharlt the language is related to the one used by the Swedish chef
14:19 fbcit heh
14:20 fbcit I wonder what happens if one walks into one's kitchen saying 'famfamfam'
14:22 gmcharlt one's spouse/SO/cat looks at one strangely, presumably
14:23 gmcharlt of course, with the cat, you may not be able to tell the difference :)
14:23 custard do not one's cats always look at one strangely?
14:24 gmcharlt custard: precisely my point :)
14:26 gmcharlt[…]2157602776641761/  </shameless_cat_sharing>
14:26 custard quite. :)
14:43 fbcit gmcharlt: Erasmus I can understand, but DSCN0045 ??? ;-)
14:44 gmcharlt fbcit: got to keep them on their toes
14:45 gmcharlt or their claws
14:45 gmcharlt or whatever ;)
14:46 fbcit gmcharlt: Mercy (18mos) just started saying "Meow" a week or so ago when she sees our cat
14:46 gmcharlt awwww - how cute
14:49 ccatalfo fbcit: wow!  my 9 mo old is fascinated by our cats, but has no words for them except a screechy sort-of-"hi" :)
14:50 fbcit she loves to pet the cat while she (the cat) eats and the cat loves it
14:52 ccatalfo fbcit: hehe one of our cats loves our daughter 'cos she pets (well, actually kind of strokes or grabs) her...
14:53 fbcit ccatalfo: I've been amazed at what our cat puts up with from very young children; she has never scratched anyone to my knowledge
14:54 fbcit I would not trade her for another
14:54 ccatalfo fbcit: yeah, we've been really surprised, too.  They seem to know somehow to be gentle with her...
14:56 fbcit does anyone know of a trick to get the *nix terminal window title to automagically display the current file open in vim?
14:57 ccatalfo fbcit: i have my vim status line display it.....would that do?
14:57 fbcit that would be an improvement
14:58 ccatalfo hehe
15:00 custard gmcharlt: some other shameless cats (although maybe not the black one)[…]celot/ocelot.html
15:03 kados ccatalfo: it might be in /etc/vimrc or something
15:03 kados some sort of global setting maybe?
15:03 ccatalfo kados: could be...although I thought i remembered setting it up myself...
15:03 fbcit cool: :set statusline=%F%m%r%h%w\ [FORMAT=%{&ff}]\ [TYPE=%Y]\ [ASCII=\%03.3b]\ [HEX=\%02.2B]\ [POS=%04l,%04v][%p%%]\ [LEN=%L]
15:04 fbcit hrmm
15:05 fbcit
15:07 fbcit :set laststatus=2
15:07 fbcit tnx ccatalfo
15:07 ccatalfo fbcit: glad i could [almost|sorta] help ;/
15:11 atz nice trick
15:16 fbcit atz: yea, but if the filename were autoset in the terminal window, one could quickly switch to the window with the file one needed next
15:17 kados fbcit: you use screen, right?
15:17 fbcit ??
15:17 kados fbcit: the terminal multiplexor?
15:18 kados goodness, you need to use screen :-)
15:18 fbcit kados: never heard of it
15:18 fbcit enlighten me... please!
15:18 kados fbcit:[…]tions/screen.html
15:18 kados it'll take you an afternoon to lear how to use it, but once you switch you'll never go screenless again :-)
15:19 fbcit I relish the thought :)
16:42 atz wtf "famfamfam" ?
16:47 owen kados said he's already approved a patch for that, but apparently not
17:01 atz sounds like some test/debugging code slipped into production
17:12 owen It's a problem with auto-detecting languages from the directory structure.
18:18 slef Is it safe to remove a couple of entries from the zebraqueue table that seem to be causing zebraqueue_daemon to loop forever?
18:19 slef or do I need to figure out why they are making it loop forever?
18:19 slef and is spot-upgrading zebraqueue_daemon safe? (3.00.00 beta with the daemon from HEAD)
18:24 gmcharlt slef: a spot-upgrade should be OK
18:24 slef I've found the cause of the loop...
18:24 slef                $marcxml = $marc->as_xml_record() if $marc;
18:25 slef anyone remember how to make that crash with debugging output?
18:25 gmcharlt so it's not managing to create a valid MARC XML?
18:25 slef apparently not
18:27 gmcharlt re debug output, I typically just issue a die or croak with a Data::Dumper dump of the record - is that what you're asking?
18:28 slef close enough
18:28 slef :)
18:29 gmcharlt I'm going to be building MARC test cases soon, so a copy of biblioitems.marc from the offending records will be gratefully accepted :)
18:31 slef I see there's a big update of zebraqueue_daemon since the beta
18:31 gmcharlt yep, and is now capable of processing zebraqueue as well
18:35 slef new crashes with an error
18:36 slef Wide character in null operation at /Library/Perl/5.8.6/MARC/Charset/ line 96.
18:36 slef guess it's time for me to get the offending biblioitems.marc fields for you
18:36 slef Do you think the above could be another symptom of the same problem?
18:39 gmcharlt it's quite possible - there was a bug in MARC::Charset that I found and worked around earlier this week
18:39 gmcharlt MARC::Charset doesn't always mark Perl strings correctly when converting from MARC-8 to UTF-8
18:39 gmcharlt and as a result, MARC::File::XML can crash when attempting to constract a UTF-8 XML version
18:40 gmcharlt one specific case, actually, is a MARC-8 record that has no "special" characters except a British pound sign
18:42 slef if I just select biblioitems.marc into a file for the biblionumber shown in zebraqueue.biblio_auth_record is that enough?
18:42 slef to send you
18:43 gmcharlt slef: yes, that should do nicely
18:43 slef outfile or dumpfile?  I never can remember which
18:44 gmcharlt dumpfile
18:44 gmcharlt (so that it doesn't add extraneous newliens, column headings, etc.)
18:44 slef Access denied for user 'kohaadmin'
18:45 slef ok, that's cute
18:45 slef I can't get root on this mysqld
18:47 kados anyone have a preference for the naming convention for that?
18:47 slef kados: just for all the swedish chefs?
18:47 slef 3.00.00.beta2?
18:47 kados this famfamfam thing, the fact that I somehow forgot to install the languages and a few other issues like liblime/liblime being listed as the user/password on the staff client like on the liblime demo
18:48 kados beta2 works
18:48 gmcharlt beta2++
18:48 slef then maybe we can rc1 rc2 rc3 ...
18:48 slef and 3.00.00!
18:49 kados yea
18:50 gmcharlt slef: if on Debian, check  /etc/mysql/debian.cnf  for another way in
18:54 slef gmcharlt: Mac OS X :-/
18:54 kados slef: also, try with no password :-)
18:58 slef Fri Jan 11 - Reset mysql password
18:59 kados hehe
18:59 slef ok, now to cross-reference that with other logs :)
18:59 kados slef: i'd have lost patience by now and just reset it myself
18:59 kados :)
19:00 slef kados: I don't know who else is using it...
19:00 slef kados: and it's always embarrassing admitting a last password
19:01 slef found it!
19:02 slef There's a <C2><BA> in this dumpfile... deadly to zebraqueue?
19:03 slef and what's the correct fix - edit the MARC record?
19:04 slef gmcharlt: what email address do you want this sent to?
19:04 slef thanks
19:05 gmcharlt <C2><BA> would be OK, as it's a valid UTF-8 sequence, although the Unicode character it represents is an odd one to find in a bib record
19:05 gmcharlt solution will ultimately either involve fixing MARC record or perhaps regenerating biblioitems.marcxml from biblioitems.marc
19:06 slef gmcharlt: You have M@IL!
19:06 slef yeah, I can't see why it's in there... maybe when I bring it up in the editor
19:08 gmcharlt do you know if the record had been upgraded from a pre-3.0 database or had been entered or loaded directly
19:08 slef 8 p-in-a-circle crossed-delta?!?!
19:08 slef Z39.50 import I suspect
19:08 slef probably from our university friends :-/
19:08 slef who use strange encodings
19:09 gmcharlt and rather incomplete cataloging, I see
19:10 gmcharlt well, if it is from z39.50 search, it might show up in the reservoir as well, and tell us which server it is coming from
19:15 slef cleaned it and now zebraqueue_daemon seems to be happy
19:16 slef checking reservoir
19:20 fbcit is it possible that title or author data might contain a user-meaningful '/' ?
19:21 fbcit as opposed to a segmentation '/'
19:21 owen Yes
19:21 slef user-meaningful?
19:22 fbcit in other words, is there such a title as "How to Use /'s in Meaningful Ways" by John-the-/ Doe
19:22 owen The author example might be doubtful, but the title one isn't
19:23 slef erm, guys, where's the reservoir?
19:23 owen I don't know examples offhand, but what about a title like "Black/White" ? Sounds plausible to me.
19:23 gmcharlt slef: import_batches and related tables
19:23 fbcit I have seen some titles like "Fifty Ways to do the Same Task/"
19:24 owen Yeah, in that case the / is really just junk from the MARC record
19:24 fbcit I was thinking it would be nice to strip out /
19:24 gmcharlt fbcit: good old MARC21 with its belt-and-half-broken-suspenders approach to ISBD punctuation
19:24 fbcit if they always occur at the end its easy
19:24 slef gmcharlt: is that new since 2.2?
19:25 owen I would guess that you could strip off trailing /es safely...but it's just a guess
19:25 fbcit slef:hehe
19:25 gmcharlt slef: yes, as of last fall
19:25 fbcit do libraries really print their spine labels with the segmentation marks in the call numbers?
19:25 gmcharlt marc_breeding was moved to import_batches et al., and the staging MARC import feature added
19:26 slef gmcharlt: can you tell me how to identify the source of an import?
19:26 gmcharlt fbcit: in theory, yes (or rather the marks themselves shouldn't print, just signal newlines)
19:26 fbcit gmcharlt: I thought so, so I fixed the label code to strip them on print and wrap the lines accordingly
19:26 slef ah, the end of the table has data :)
19:27 fbcit gmcharlt: do you see any problem with stripping '/' when they appear at the end of the title?
19:27 fbcit for displaying/printing that is
19:27 slef so if it's not in import_biblios, is it definitely locally-compiled?
19:28 gmcharlt for labels, probably OK - unless you're printing catalog cards, in which case you want to keep the ISBD punct
19:28 gmcharlt slef: yes, if there isn't a corresponding import_biblios row (biblionumber = matched_biblionumber), it's likely locally entered
19:28 gmcharlt or adding via bulkmarcimport
19:29 fbcit afaik, koha does not generate catalog cards
19:29 slef mysql> select * from import_biblios where matched_biblionumber is not NULL;
19:29 slef Empty set (0.00 sec)
19:29 slef erm, I'm sure they imported some from z39.50 sources...
19:30 gmcharlt sorry, I was wrong - the connection between bib and reservoir wouldn't exist for a record imported via Z39.50
19:32 slef I can't see the title in there anyway.  I guess it's something done locally.  I will ask the librarians.
19:33 gmcharlt yeah, I curious what was supposed to be in the 300$a
19:33 slef MARC21 library
19:34 slef PHYSICAL DESCRIPTION, a = extent, c = Dimensions
19:35 gmcharlt slef: right; I meant what characters were supposed to follow the '8' in that record's 300$a
19:59 r0ver hello guys. Any news about the koha-plone contest ?
19:59 r0ver my team is very ansious... :D
20:01 kados r0ver: hi!
20:01 kados r0ver: the person who was organizing it has vanished, we're not sure what happened to her
20:01 kados r0ver: her name was Darci, and she hasn't responded to any emails I've sent in the past two weeks
20:02 kados r0ver: have you guys got a submission ready?
20:02 r0ver kados: we sent the skin, probably is running somewhere. Let me check
20:02 kados r0ver: who did you send it to?
20:03 r0ver kados: we used the web form
20:03 kados r0ver: OK, I will try to contact Darci again
20:04 kados r0ver: very sorry for the inconvenience :/
20:06 owen That's a bummer, kados
20:07 r0ver this is the menttes skin:
20:07 r0ver (my team)
20:08 r0ver it's very weird. I had met Darci and she's a very commited person, i'm sure something happen to her...
20:09 r0ver ok. Beyond the contest, any comment is very appreciated. Thank you
20:09 kados OK, just called her
20:09 kados it seems she'd had some health issues, but she's just back at work now, so she will try to get the three submissions on separate hosted plones
20:09 kados and I'm going to get a voting mechanism set up so the community can vote on the entries
20:10 r0ver great!
20:10 r0ver thk
20:11 kados r0ver: thanks for asking!
20:12 r0ver you're welcome
20:12 r0ver we keep in touch
20:23 russel does anyone have contact details for r0ver?
20:24 russel
20:32 russel hi r0ver - i have to dash to a meeting but i sent my contact details to the menttes site
20:32 russel want to contact me off list some time  and have a chat?
20:33 r0ver sure
20:34 russel cool
20:40 Arsenic Hi guys.  Long time no see (or talk) :)
20:54 arsenic re-hi :)
20:54 gmcharlt hi arsenic
20:55 arsenic So quiet here... :)
20:56 arsenic hey kados!  (late) congratulation for the beta release!
20:57 arsenic congratulation to everyone, of course :)
20:58 arsenic what is the status of the installer to install Koha in another place than the default location?
20:59 arsenic For example, I want to install it in /home/myusername/koha/mylib
20:59 gmcharlt arsenic: what do you mean? during perl Makefile.PL you're prompted for the directories you want to use
21:00 atz or you can specify $PREFIX  (or something similar)
21:00 arsenic gmcharlt, I agree, it works for the file location, but the content of some files, ex: koha-httpd.conf seems to not taking care of what I set in the installer
21:01 gmcharlt it depends on your installer mode - standard follows FHS, although you can override directory targets individual using environment variables
21:03 arsenic gmcharlt, i'm using the <single> mode
21:03 gmcharlt same thing
21:04 gmcharlt if it's not setting the directory correct for specific places in a configuration file, please submit as specific bugs (or let me know the bug numbers, if you've already done so)
21:08 arsenic gmcharlt, ok, let's take the previous sample.  if I set /home/myusername/koha/mylib as installed directory, the opac's DocumentRoot value in the koha-httpd.conf should be set to /home/myusername/koha/mylib/opac/htdocs, right?
21:11 gmcharlt arsenic: yep, that's what it should be doing
21:14 arsenic ok.  I'll fill a bug then. :)
21:35 kados hmmm, /me notices that zebra 2.0.28 has 'Updated OAI-PMH example.' among the updates
21:35 kados I didn't realize we had OAI, when did that get added? :-)
21:36 gmcharlt in Koha? paul added that three or four weeks ago?
21:37 kados no, zebra
21:37 gmcharlt dunno
21:37 kados I remember seb talking about it at an ALA a while back, they must have gotten sponsorship for that
21:37 koha r0ver:
21:38 gmcharlt yikes, everybody should just use yaz and zebra then - Z39.50, SRU/W, OAI-PMH out of the box
21:38 gmcharlt and I'm sure opensearch would be trivial for ID to add
21:39 kados yea
22:04 arsenic Hey!  using the webinstall (koha 3.0 beta) there is a "famfamfam" language... funny :) was that fix (or maybe this is a real language that I don't speak) :)
22:05 arsenic How can we get other languages?
22:06 kados arsenic: it was a bug introduced by the release manager (me) and will be fixed in the forthcoming 3.0-beta2 (this week)
22:08 arsenic Ha, those RM... :)  Thanks Joshua.  Is there a way to get the other languages?
22:09 kados arsenic: yes, they will be included in 3.0-beta2 ... or, you can install them yourself, with the misc/translator/ script (or one at a time following the directions on
22:12 arsenic thx, i'll check that after the install then.  Is there a list about what will be fix in beta2?
22:16 kados arsenic: famfamfam, missing languages, and liblime/liblime listed on the staff loging page ...
22:34 arsenic kudos: maybe beta should also fix[…]_bug.cgi?id=1664?
22:45 arsenic also, here is some stuff I noted during the installation of perl modules: requires Data::Dumper 1.21_08 (?!?)
22:50 arsenic There is not a big difference between POSIX 1.08 and 1.09.  Are we sure Koha really need 1.09?
22:53 gmcharlt arsenic: does requiring 1.09 vs. just 1.08 cause any difficulty?  we could easily reach a point where we spend a lot of time second-guessing the specific verions of required modules
22:57 arsenic gmcharlt, as far as i can remember it was quit complicate to update to POSIX 1.09.  Let me check again
23:03 arsenic gmcharlt: ok, the latest version of POSIX available on CPAN is 1.13, but to install it, we must install perl 5.10
01:16 arsenic anybody alive? :)
01:31 r0ver me, but i can answer question about plone only :D
03:25 atz arsenic: i seriously doubt we actually require perl 5.10 for anything
03:39 atz more lame code....
03:39 atz    my @methods = ();
03:39 atz    foreach my $method (sort keys %methods) {
03:39 atz        push @methods,$method;
03:39 atz    }
03:39 atz so... you want an array of the hash keys... why build it a piece at a time?
03:41 ryan so they're in order ?
03:41 atz (sort keys %methods) isn't good enough?
03:41 atz (sort {$b cmp $a} keys %methods) if you want reverse
03:42 ryan we like enjoying multiple redundancy ?
03:44 atz sometimes, yeah...
03:46 atz odd
03:47 atz Algorithm::CheckDigits has an AUTOLOAD sub
03:47 atz but doesn't use AutoLoader
03:49 atz i guess by design... but not really sure it looks right... returns '' if it doesn't croak
04:03 atz just realized the bug that I'm looking at was updated by josh at 9AM, christmas morning
04:03 atz dude, wtf!  take a day off!

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