IRC log for #koha, 2008-02-27

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
13:26 paul 'morning owen
13:26 owen Hi paul
13:54 owen What is stored in items.location? In my sample data it's 0,1,2,3, or 4. What does that represent?
14:01 paul owen : in my installs, it usually contains the "room" where the books are stored.
14:01 paul physical location  = branch+location+callnumber
14:02 owen Yeah, that makes sense. I wonder why the sample data has those numbers...
14:51 fbcit g'morning koha
14:51 owen Hi fbcit
15:10 fbcit owen: I notice at when I click on a letter in "Browse by last name" the single downward arrow in the "New" button becomes two.
15:10 fbcit I seem to remember this happening elsewhere too.
15:11 owen What's your browser and platform?
15:11 fbcit Firefox && Fedora 7
15:11 fbcit it does not happen with every such button, only with some.
15:12 paul owen : the same problem appears sometimes for me, in many places (biblio edit for example, or "More" button)
15:13 owen Hunh... I can't duplicate the problem in any of my Windows browsers
15:14 fbcit paul: are you using firefox on *nix?
15:16 fbcit owen: does setting the yui path to local in the staff client also set it local in opac?
15:17 owen Yes
15:19 fbcit owen: I notice if I shift the focus, the double arrows disappear.
15:24 owen What kind of search is being performed by  Title? Keyword?
15:30 paul fbcit: yep, using FF on linux
15:30 paul owen : title & isbn if I don't mind
15:31 owen The results of a search from don't match OPAC search results by keyword /or/ title
15:34 fbcit morning gmcharlt
15:34 gmcharlt hi fbcit
15:34 fbcit how was camp?
15:35 gmcharlt went OK
15:36 gmcharlt a couple technical glitches, but nobody fell asleep :)
15:36 paul hello gmcharlt.
15:36 gmcharlt hi paul
15:36 paul a session without technical glitches wouldn't be a "normal" session...
15:37 fbcit hehe
15:41 fbcit can an item be categorized under multiple item types? (ie. Reference && Language)
15:43 gmcharlt fbcit: an item can have only one item type -- at least for item-level item types, it's mostly for setting circulation policies, although also affects display (e.g., the icon in the search results)
15:44 gmcharlt there isn't a direct equivalent to something like an item statistical category with which you might classify items (although something like Language as an item category is more of a bibish data element -- can get a little fuzzy)
15:46 fbcit gmcharlt: so item type is really a very broad category?
15:47 owen fbcit: Yes. As gmcharlt said, it's primarily used for setting circulation rules
15:48 owen At NPL we've been using a combination of itemtype and collection code for finer classification
15:48 owen I'm not sure how that's going to work out in 3.0
15:48 fbcit gmcharlt: so say I have a college course that proscribes reading in certain categories. Would the best approach be to setup virtual shelves to "house" volumes which fall w/in those categories?
15:48 fbcit or owen
15:48 fbcit or :)
15:48 gmcharlt fbcit: a list/virtual shelf would be one way of doing it, yes
15:48 owen It sounds like you're talking about subject headings
15:49 owen If you're talking about a virtual shelf, you have complete control over what to put on the shelf
15:49 gmcharlt I agree with owen; subject headings might also be a good way of doing it - depends on whether the criteria lasts for all time or (for a course reading list) is more transitory
15:50 owen If it needs to be more dynamic, you could build a search that hits only the relevant titles, based on any combination of item type, subject, etc.
15:50 fbcit this would be a bit more specific than what I imagine a subject heading to be
15:52 fbcit ie. we have a course entitled Theological Readings which encompasses reading from various theologians of the contemporary (late 19th cen to present). It would be nice for a student to be able to pull a list of available books that fall in that vein.
15:53 fbcit perhaps a virtual shelf might be more appropriate for that purpose?
15:55 gmcharlt fbcit: yes, I think so
15:55 fbcit thanks gmcharlt && owen
15:56 fbcit it is also very helpful to the uninitiated to know that item type is primarily a circ categorization.
15:57 gmcharlt owen: I want to add a fragment link in the catalogue reservoir serach (cataloging/ to jump down to the list of bibs from the reservoir (for cases where there are a lot of search results from the main cataloging) -- such a link would go near the top, near the new button
15:57 gmcharlt is there a existing convetion for styling such a jump link?
15:57 owen I saw that bug report.
15:58 gmcharlt yep, it's 1893
15:58 owen There's not. I thought you might add it to the same line that describes the results found in the catalog
15:58 owen So you'd have: "11 results found in the catalog. 12 results found in the reservoir"
15:59 owen With the jump link wrapped around the "12 results found..."
16:00 gmcharlt owen: sounds good -- I'll do that
16:01 owen gmcharlt-phone: I would have done it myself, but it didn't look like there was a variable available for the reservoir results count
16:02 gmcharlt-phone owen: yeah, I need to add that count
16:18 MatthewMetzger Hello
16:18 MatthewMetzger Does anyone have qiqo's email address?
16:18 MatthewMetzger I've been trying to connect with qiqo about how (s)he solved his search problem with 3.0
16:19 MatthewMetzger Time zones are making it difficult on the chat channel
16:32 fbcit owen: cgi-bin/koha/catalogue/ does not display the images for item types
16:32 fbcit here at least
16:33 fbcit it appears to be looking here: /opac-tmpl/prog/itemtypeimg/Non-fiction.gif
16:33 fbcit for the source
16:33 owen That sounds right
16:34 fbcit the image exists on my system at that location
16:35 fbcit problem is, the docroot for the staff client is /usr/share/koha/intranet/htdocs
16:35 fbcit so maybe we should be looking here: /intranet-tmpl/prog/img/it​emtypeimg/Non-fiction.gif
16:37 fbcit but that does not fix it either :(
16:37 owen In my installation I have a symlink from koha-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/prog/img to opac-tmpl/prog/itemtypeimg
16:39 fbcit actually that does work
16:39 fbcit owen: you're running a dev install?
16:40 owen I'm working on an installation that Liblime set up for me
16:41 fbcit in any case, I don't think that a relative ref to /opac-tmpl/prog/itemtypeimg/foo.gif will resolve from w/in the staff client
16:42 fbcit I'm curious, if you open that screen what does firebug say those references are?
16:42 owen background-image:url(/opac-tmpl/p​rog/itemtypeimg/Video-disc.gif);
16:44 gmcharlt-phone fbcit: may or not be directly related; I submitted a patch recently to copy the staff and OPAC itemtypeimg directories and make them separate, instead of having a symlink
16:44 fbcit <img border="0" alt="Non-fiction" src="/opac-tmpl/prog/itemt​ypeimg/Non-fiction.gif"/>
16:45 fbcit gmcharlt-phone: I was just checking the history on a few things :)
16:45 nengard morning all
16:45 fbcit I think getitemtypeimagesrc() needs to be told where it was called from
16:45 fbcit morning nengard
16:46 fbcit gmcharlt: I'll work on fixing that this afternoon
16:48 fbcit I knew I remember this issue: getitemtypeimagesrc() has a conditional for where it was called from (I added it)..
16:49 fbcit fixed
16:51 fbcit patch emailed
16:51 fbcit tnx owen, gmcharlt again
17:49 owen fbcit: does getitemtypeimagesrc handle remote images?
17:49 kados g'morning Koha
17:49 owen Hi kados
17:49 kados dependent on timezone I suppose
17:58 owen So what's new kados?
17:58 kados not much, portland's nice :-)
17:58 kados I had a good mtg with hdl last night, over a few drinks
17:58 kados plotting the future of Koha :-)
17:59 kados owen:  sounds like i need to give you some better sample data
17:59 kados that has item-level call numbers
18:00 kados hmmm, though looking at the sample batch in your home dir, it does have item-level call numbers
18:02 kados not all the records though, I see
18:03 owen enough to get the idea
18:03 kados owen: you are, i assume, aware of the safari cart issue, where the label is beneath the icon?
18:03 kados not a huge bug, just noticed it in safari
18:04 owen Yes. Internet Explorer 6 has even more serious problems with the cart and list buttons
18:04 owen I've been working on it over the last few days, without much success
18:04 kados ahh, that's a priority :-)
18:04 kados so one question I have regarding itemtype images in results lists, the current design makes sense for when there's only one itemtype per bib, but what about when you've got several?
18:05 kados shoud the itemtypes 'stack' side by side like the call numbers do?
18:06 owen How do you get several itemtypes per bib?
18:06 kados turn on item-level itemtypes, and catalog some items with different itemtypes
18:08 kados huh, your default framework doesn't have itemtype defined
18:08 kados nor your other frameworks
18:11 kados ahh, it's there
18:11 kados but the display in the frameowrks only goes up to x
18:11 kados y and z are visible when you click on edit
18:13 kados owen: do you ever recall a 'browse' feature with the spydus system?
18:14 owen Yes, vaguely
18:14 kados this gets to your question about lists and call numbers, etc.
18:15 kados in most systems, when you do a call number browse, it will show each unique call number separately, and if that means repeating titles, so be it
18:16 kados I _think_ that's also the way a call number search is 'supposed' to work
18:37 owen Hi qiqo, MatthewMetzger  was looking for you earlier
18:54 qiqo hi owen
18:54 qiqo ohh sorry i was busy doing some stuff here
18:54 qiqo so he hasnt solved his problem yet?
18:54 owen I don't know, he was asking for your email address
18:54 qiqo hmm..
18:55 qiqo im still noob lolz
18:55 qiqo so i might not help him
18:55 qiqo anyway,, incase you catch him again my email is qiqo _at_
18:56 kados fbcit: you around?
19:14 fbcit yup
19:15 fbcit owen: I don't think so
19:18 fbcit owen: it merely concatenates the sysprefs for intrahtdocs/opachtdocs, and template with the imagetype path
19:18 fbcit then returns it to the caller
19:19 fbcit ie. return C4::Context->config('opachtdocs') . '/' . C4::Context->preference('template') . '/itemtypeimg';
19:19 fbcit results in
19:19 fbcit /opac-tmpl/prog/itemtypeimg/
19:19 fbcit on my installation
19:19 owen Have you seen the "remote image" option in admin/itemtypes ?
19:19 fbcit yes
19:20 fbcit but I have not messed with it any
19:20 fbcit is it broken?
19:21 owen It is in some cases
19:21 fbcit I would think it is looking for a complete uri maybe?
19:22 owen It is, but in some places Koha tries to build a link to /opac-tmpl/prog/itemtypeimg/
19:22 qiqo i have a question, where do you exactly modify the yui path of opac?
19:22 fbcit owen:can you point me to where it tries that
19:22 qiqo i cant seem to see it in syspref > opac
19:23 fbcit qiqo: under admin-staff client
19:23 owen qiqo: YUI path is the same for staff client and opac
19:23 qiqo ah ok...
19:23 qiqo already changed that.. but my opac is still slow
19:25 owen fbcit: opac-detail, for instance
19:26 owen ...unless I'm looking at changes in my system that haven't made it to you yet
19:27 kados fbcit: I'm thinking we need a new syspref that's a choice about which field to associate with a given icon
19:27 kados fbcit: based on the use cases I've just compiled, it looks like there are some libraries that want a material-type at the bib level, some that want itemtype at the item level and some that want collection code (items.ccode) at the item level
19:29 fbcit kados: I do think that piggybacking on the itemtypes for advanced searches is a bit confusing if one does not understand the intended use of itemtype categories.
19:30 gmcharlt-conf for bib-level stuff, may want multiple images for bib
19:30 gmcharlt-conf e.g., format, adult/juvenile reading level (from fixed fields), etc.
19:31 fbcit the advanced search page of the Athens opac does a nice job of granulating searches
19:32 owen ...but it's true that using those images to denote different search types is confusing because those same images are used to refer to specific collection codes elsewhere
19:32 fbcit gmcharlt-conf: yup
19:34 fbcit owen brings up a good point: the "meaning" associated with a given image by a user should probably remain consistent throughout in order to avoid confusion
19:38 kados gmcharlt-conf also makes a good point that bib-level icons can be of more than one type
19:39 kados ie, format vs audience vs content
19:40 fbcit right, so the icons always mean the same thing, but appear in a variety of contexts
19:41 fbcit ie. non-fiction is always non-fiction but may apply to item type, search scope, content, etc.
19:42 kados well, the current iconset was developed for NPL
19:43 kados and they use icons for 'collections'
19:43 kados a collection is often a combination of a format, audience, and sometimes content
19:43 kados so for example, Juvenile Non-Fiction would be one of NPL's collections
19:44 kados it's both a audience (Juvenile) and a content designation (non-fiction)
19:46 fbcit it appears that the icons in the current code are associated with item type categories which are used to determine circ rules?
19:46 kados yes, that's historical
19:46 fbcit so the whole thing needs to be revamped
19:46 fbcit the use of images that is
19:47 kados handling icons for display should be refactored IMO
19:47 fbcit so your initial suggestion was a syspref to accomplish that?
19:48 kados well, in thinking about it, sysprefs may be too simplistic
19:48 kados but basically, we've got libraries that will want to maintain the status quo
19:48 kados ie, a single bib-level icon
19:49 kados we've got libraries that will want multiple bib-level icons, for each designation (format, audience, content, etc.)
19:49 kados we've got libraries that will want item-level icons for itemtypes and/or collections
19:49 kados some libraries might want all of the above! :-)
19:50 fbcit let's go for pleasing all of the people all of the time ;-)
19:50 kados and I'm not sure the current iconset will handle all of these cases ... and I'm thinking we should have a 16x16 iconset too, the current one is 32x32 I think
19:50 kados fbcit: I like the way you think :-0
19:50 kados :-)
19:52 fbcit owen: I just entered a bogus external image (helloworld.jpg) and now when I go back to an "internal" image, the img ref is hidden on the form???
19:53 fbcit owen: I have to go early today, but I'll look at this issue later this evening or tomorrow and get at least the current code working correctly.
20:00 fbcit well, I found the problem and will fix it tonight
20:00 kados fbcit: any ideas for how to accomplish a more flexible icon display?
20:00 kados oops, cya later
20:01 fbcit-away kados: I'll think about it and let you know what I think this evening
20:01 fbcit-away bbl
20:02 kados cya
21:11 MatthewMetzger Hello, I've been working on my koha 3 search problem some more and still have not been able to solve my problem. Is there any utility to check the mysql database to make sure that everything is in the right place?
23:04 MatthewMetzger kados: do you have a few minutes for a 2.2.9 question concerning a script you sent me last summer?
23:58 fbcit kados around?
00:19 tinaburger hdl: ?
00:19 tinaburger are you there?
00:20 tinaburger does anyone on the channel now have information about the 'IssuingInProcess' system preference?
00:20 tinaburger help would be much appreciated :)
00:21 chris yep
00:21 chris say you have $5 limit
00:21 tinaburger ok
00:21 tinaburger hi chris :)
00:21 chris and a borrower rocks up with 5 books
00:22 chris and $4 in charges owing
00:22 chris now 1 of the books has a rental charge of $1
00:22 chris (hi :))
00:22 chris so we issue that book
00:22 chris bam, $5
00:22 chris can no longer issue the other 4
00:22 chris issuing in process will let you continue issuing to that borrower
00:23 tinaburger ah, so it lets you override the fines module settings for s specific transaction?
00:23 tinaburger or, does it automatically?
00:23 tinaburger is there like an 'override' button in the checkout screen
00:23 chris nope
00:23 masonj its a global override ?
00:24 tinaburger ok, another question
00:24 chris it does it automatically for that session .. ie if the user started under the limit but during that session hit the limit
00:24 tinaburger but if he comes up and already has $5 in fines
00:24 chris no issues
00:24 tinaburger and this preference is enabled then he can't issue
00:24 chris no
00:24 chris if the issuing limit is enabled
00:24 tinaburger 'no' meaning i said it right? ;)
00:24 chris and set at $5
00:25 chris issuinginprocess doesnt block issues
00:25 tinaburger ok i understand
00:25 tinaburger thank you so much!!!
00:25 chris no worries
00:26 chris its only really useful for libraries that charge for issues
00:26 chris (which quite a few do .. for dvd etc)
00:27 tinaburger wait: but it means that patron comes up to renew an item that already has the charge on it
00:27 tinaburger and has other items too
00:28 MatthewMetzger I've given up on my 3.0 upgrade for now and I'm back to trying to fix some smaller errors in 2.2.9.
00:28 tinaburger because that's the only time a charge would suddenly be incurred
00:28 tinaburger during checkout process
00:29 chris not nessecarily
00:29 MatthewMetzger The call number doesn't show up, even though it has been entered in 942k. kados helped me out with this last summer by giving me a script, but that script must not work anymore (I've upgraded since that script was first used, I think).
00:29 chris he might come up with a new dvd to checkout which incurs a charge
00:31 tinaburger ah, so not necessariy 'late' fees
00:31 tinaburger but fees
00:31 tinaburger in general
00:31 chris yes
00:31 tinaburger now i understand
00:31 tinaburger thank you chris!
00:31 tinaburger i'm headed out for a bit
00:33 MatthewMetzger Any ideas on why the dewey call number isn't showing in the bib view on 2.2.9? Should I worry about this before attempting upgrading to 3.o again?
00:34 chris if its in the data, i wouldnt worry
00:35 MatthewMetzger chris: it does seem to be entered for every item, just not showing up in the opac search for booked entered after last summer.
00:35 MatthewMetzger I can see it if I go to MARC View and look at 942k
00:36 chris right, i think you'll be ok upgrading to 3.0 then
00:37 MatthewMetzger thanks chris. I've had a terrible time getting search to work at all in my past attempts to 3.0, but I've discovered a database error that might contribute to that, so I'm now trying it with a backup taken before that error occurred.
00:38 chris cool
00:38 MatthewMetzger I'll let you know how it goes.
00:38 chris getting zebra to play nice is the hardest bit with 3
00:39 MatthewMetzger I've been attempting nozebra as we have less than 6000 items.
00:39 chris ahh that shouldnt be too bad, yell out if you get stuck
00:40 MatthewMetzger thanks
00:46 qiqo MatthewMetzger my call number is with 942k also
00:46 qiqo i had difficulties with it
00:47 MatthewMetzger what difficulties did you have?
00:47 qiqo like for barcodes
00:47 qiqo and spine labels.. i had a hard time
00:48 MatthewMetzger We won't be printing either of those, but I'd like it to show up in searches. Did it show up after your upgrade to 3.0?
00:49 qiqo yep
00:49 qiqo but im using zebra.. so there might be a difference
00:49 MatthewMetzger okay. thanks. I'll give the upgrade another try.
00:50 qiqo i know it's really painful..
00:50 qiqo i can feel it too
00:51 MatthewMetzger I'm hoping that after 3.0 koha will feel a lot more streamlined. It seems that a lot of great improvements have been made. I'd just like to get there....
00:51 qiqo yep
09:31 Fallor hi #koha
09:33 frederic Hi Fallor
09:34 Fallor i need to know a few things
09:34 Fallor anybody got time to help me out a bit?
09:35 frederic What kind of 'few things'?
09:35 Fallor well... things like how do i clear koha's reservoir?
09:35 Fallor it has triple entrien now for some titles...
09:36 Fallor entries
09:36 Fallor it will probably require running some mysql command, but what and how?
09:37 Fallor it's to do with importing records from another librarysystem (Voyager)
09:38 frederic What version of Koha do you use?
09:38 Fallor 2.2.9
09:38 Fallor it's a brand new installation
09:39 frederic if you do bulk import, you'd rather use /misc/migration_tools/ script.
09:39 Fallor the records were imported with
09:39 frederic In v3, you can delete reservoir entries from web interface. Not sur for v2.
09:39 Fallor i could try that, but the problem might be that bulkmarcimport also imports item records
09:40 Fallor (afaik)
09:40 Fallor the item records are different for this library
09:41 Fallor from the item records in ISO-2709 file, that is
09:41 Fallor I don't think there is an option to clear reservoir in the interface of koha 2
09:42 frederic So you should proceed in two steps: (1) you prepare an ISO2709 file from your Voyager DB containing both biblio & item data, (2) you import file prepared at step (1) with
09:43 Fallor the ISO file is produced by our national library
09:44 Fallor it has item records, but i don't want them to be imported
09:44 Fallor because they are national library's items, not ours
09:44 frederic So you have to clear item info from your MARC records and then import them
09:45 Fallor so i only want to import cataloging information
09:45 Fallor item records will be created separately
09:46 Fallor and then there is another problem...
09:46 Fallor it's to do with character encoding
09:47 Fallor the ISO file uses UTF-8 just as our system does
09:47 Fallor but for some reason some characters are not correct
09:47 Fallor would bulkmarcimport help with that also?
09:48 frederic UTF8 support is a huge issue in Koha 2. A lot of work have been done concerning encoding support in Koha 3.
09:49 Fallor utf-8 works fine as long as the cataloging is done manually
09:49 Fallor but on importing records no such luck
09:49 Fallor be it Z39.50 or ISO2709
09:50 Fallor they're always wrong :(
09:50 frederic Have you read that?
09:50 Fallor have i read what?
09:51 frederic[…]ncodingscratchpad
09:51 Fallor nope, i hadn't seen that
09:52 Fallor how stable is Koha 3 at the moment?
09:53 frederic With Z3950, some trancoding is required. My understanding is that it wasn't handled properly in v2. If you were in UT8, it was required to target UTF8 target (with exception for UNIMARC targets, maybe)...
09:53 Fallor er...?
09:53 frederic For my perspective, Koha 3 is more stable than Koha 2 :)
09:53 Fallor i see, that's interesting...
09:53 frederic But please, take advices from other...
09:54 Fallor well it's unlikely that this system will be upgraded to koha 3 anytime soon
09:54 Fallor but it would be interesting to test 3

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