IRC log for #koha, 2008-02-22

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
11:24 Fallor hello paul
12:16 gmcharlt Fallor: to answer your question, for 3.0 you could do a SQL 'delete from import_batches' to delete everything; for 2.2.9 you could 'delete from marc_breeding'
12:16 gmcharlt I'm not aware of a way to do it from the staff interface
13:20 paul 'morning gmcharlt & nengard
13:20 gmcharlt hi paul
13:21 nengard morning
13:27 owen Hello #koha
13:27 paul hello owen
13:35 nengard Hi owen
13:39 paul does anyone around know what is the "items.enumchron" column done for? (added by mason yesterday)
14:00 gmcharlt paul: volume and chronology statements for an item, e.g., vol. 1 (1990)
14:01 paul is there a link with the serials module ?
14:02 gmcharlt not yet (the immediate reason for adding the field is to support a migration from a Voyager database), but would be logically to integrate that field with serials
14:03 paul thx
14:07 owen paul, is tools/ something your libraries use?
14:07 paul yep
14:07 owen I have a couple of questions for you, then
14:08 owen first, would it make sense to you to hide the form after you've submitted a search? I was thinking it made sense to give the whole page to the search results instead of redisplaying the form each time
14:09 kados_ g'morning all
14:09 owen Hi kados_
14:09 kados_ paul: did you have some OAI patches you want in the beta?
14:09 gmcharlt hi kados_
14:10 paul (on phone, sorry)
14:10 kados scheduled ones anyway :-)
14:10 kados gmcharlt: got a sec?
14:11 gmcharlt kados: sure -- I can call you if you want a phone call before 1 pm ;-)
14:11 kados hehe
14:11 kados so ... I was playing around with the installer yesterday, particilarly the web portion, and installing with other languages
14:12 kados so starting in the misc/translator dir I did:
14:12 kados mkdir ../../koha-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/prog/de-DE
14:12 kados ./ install -i ../../koha-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/prog/en/ -o ../../koha-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/prog/de-DE/ -s po/de-DE-i-staf
14:12 kados f-t-prog-v-3000000.po -r
14:12 kados oops, that didn't paste in quite right
14:12 kados mkdir ../../koha-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/prog/de-DE
14:12 kados ./ install -i ../../koha-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/prog/en/ -o ../../koha-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/prog/de-DE/ -s po/de-DE-i-staff-t-prog-v-3000000.po -r
14:12 kados so that will install the German staff templates
14:12 gmcharlt with you so far
14:13 kados when I installed from German, after the install completed, failed witht he following:
14:13 kados Can't call method "delete" on an undefined value at /home/jmf/koha/lib/C4/ line 499.
14:13 kados something wonked up about the session handling I think
14:15 gmcharlt yeah -- does it then work OK if you go to the main page directly (i.e., not following the link you get from the installer?)
14:15 kados no
14:19 kados paul: you around?
14:19 paul (still on phone)
14:19 kados k
14:23 paul back
14:24 paul kados : about OAI patches. There is a problem in encoding, that Ecole des mines want to solve, so that will be for later.
14:25 kados paul: later as in next week? or two months?
14:25 paul next week I think
14:25 kados OK
14:25 paul (quickly I mean)
14:26 paul about installer : maybe you're facing the problem I had and resulted in the patch including yaml that you've reverted.
14:26 paul not sure, but it remind me something
14:28 kados ahh, interesting
14:28 kados it looked like a good patch, but it broke stuff and I didn't have time to figure out why :-)
14:43 gmcharlt kados: re installing in de-DE: no MARC flavour is currently defined -- did you just skip that when you did the install?
14:43 kados hmmm
14:43 kados I guess so!
14:43 gmcharlt anyway, I've now been able to reproduce the problem
14:45 paul mmm... the problem that resulted in the reversed patch was in, not in so maybe your problem is not related to that.
14:45 paul another idea : do you have mysql or /tmp as session storage ?
14:45 gmcharlt mysql
14:47 paul kados : when do you plan to release the beta (pascale nalon is working on french translation to tune & complete some strings)
14:50 kados paul: well, we're getting closer, have to resolve this install prob, and I have some aditional testing to do
14:50 gmcharlt kados: here's what I found so far
14:51 kados paul: when can Pascale submit improvements to french translation?
14:51 gmcharlt de-DE has no marcflavour and no default data to load
14:51 gmcharlt in particular, it has no sysprefs
14:51 gmcharlt since there's no SessionStorage syspref, it defaults to file
14:51 kados gmcharlt: ahh, right ... we overlooked that I guess
14:51 gmcharlt it tries to read from the session file created during install
14:51 gmcharlt but can't read it (so paul's YAML patch is relevant)
14:51 kados which I assume has been deleted
14:52 gmcharlt I will see if deleting the session before handing over to mainpage at least avoids the carp
14:53 gmcharlt but I think for translations that do not have MARC frameworks and sample data
14:53 gmcharlt we either need to default to 'en'
14:53 paul gmcharlt: ++
14:53 gmcharlt or at the very least, load the en sysprefs
15:00 paul the french translation team faces problems to translate "matchpoint"... we can't find a french term...
15:01 kados gmcharlt: I agree
15:02 paul could english-speaking ppl give me some synonyms for "matchpoints" in the Koha context ?
15:03 kados well, matchpoints could also be 'match points'
15:03 gmcharlt paul: so when a French library is loading a batch of records, and during the load wants to deduplicate the incoming records against the already loaded records on (say) ISBN or national bibliography number, what do the call the concept of using the ISBN or standard number index
15:03 gmcharlt for that matching?
15:04 gmcharlt paul: 'match index' ? 'mathcing index'? 'deduplication index'?
15:14 atz perhaps "match criteria"?
15:14 atz (no semantic overlap with tennis)
15:15 kados hehe
15:16 gmcharlt atz++
15:46 fbcit hi koha
15:48 kados hey fbcit
15:51 kados paul: re: OAI ... do you have some specs for that feature yet?
15:52 paul kados: what kind of specs do you expect ? the script just makes Koha OAI harvestable.
15:53 paul (not sure it's correct english...)
15:53 kados it's correct
15:53 atz correct english is overrated  :)
15:53 kados paul: a full implementation of OAI?
15:56 paul the following methods are implemented (POD doc) :
15:56 paul =item B<new>: initialization step,
15:56 paul =item B<dispose>: clean up step,
15:56 paul =item B<Archive_ListSets>: return list of defined sets,
15:56 paul =item B<Archive_GetRecord>: return a record,
15:56 paul =item B<Archive_ListRecords>: return a list of records,
15:56 paul =item B<Archive_ListIdentifiers>: return a list of record identifiers,
15:57 kados paul: can you add this to the wiki?
15:57 paul which page ?
15:57 kados sec
15:59 kados paul:[…]opment:qanotes3.0
16:00 kados paul: under the APIs section for now
16:00 kados paul: add OAI link please
16:00 kados and I'll make sure to add it to the release notes
16:08 paul kados : done
16:09 kados paul++
16:09 gmcharlt paul, kados: I'm going to signoff on Paul's YAML patch, make another patch to correct an issue with it, then submit set of install patches
16:09 kados gmcharlt: sounds good
16:10 kados gmcharlt: might want to CC me directly at for the install ones so I can push them up unmediated and continue RM testing
16:10 gmcharlt ok
16:15 fbcit heh
16:16 gmcharlt fbcit++
16:17 kados fbcit: wow, that's awesome
16:17 fbcit question for owen, atz, and anyone else interested...
16:17 fbcit should we restrict image types to jpeg only?
16:17 fbcit or allow other formats?
16:17 paul nope, we should also allow png imho
16:17 atz png and probably gif even
16:17 owen And we're just talking about patron images, right?
16:18 fbcit right now, yes
16:19 atz this would simplify the "small logo" kind of stuff in sysprefs too
16:19 fbcit also the restriction on pixel dimensions may become important as images can get pretty big
16:19 fbcit kados: what is the largest number of patrons currently served on a Koha install?
16:19 fbcit or anyone else who knows
16:20 paul SANOP is something like 20 000 patrons.
16:20 paul (active)
16:20 atz that physics institute had tens of thousands, at least
16:21 owen NPL has 53500 total
16:21 atz your backup gets to be a serious pain in the ass
16:21 owen ...but we'll probably never use the feature
16:21 fbcit atz: actually, you have to backup the data one way or the other, but I can see your point.
16:22 kados fbcit: I suspect only the small libraries will store images
16:22 paul yep, I suspect too
16:22 fbcit I am hoping to add the ability to print patron cards from inside koha and would like to have photo on them
16:22 atz i didn't backup pix when I ran k-12 servers (the most reliable users of patron photos)
16:22 paul unless we let the user upload a picture itself from OPAC.
16:23 atz mainly because I received all the images on disc media
16:23 fbcit paul: I had thought of that too.
16:23 atz so the original is the backup
16:24 fbcit paul: the only problem I see there is image restrictions such as pixel dimensions.
16:24 fbcit kados: it would still be wise IMO to benchmark against a large number of records *just-in-case*
16:26 fbcit ok, I'll simply refactor the current patronimage functionality to store images in the db and other changes/improvements can be made from there
16:27 atz does YUI have any image upload tools?
16:27 fbcit I'll also allow for png, gif, and jpeg
16:27 fbcit I'm not sure
16:28 pianohacker Supposing I wanted to submit the necessary patches for my smart rules and issuing specificity ideas, how would I go about doing that?
16:28 kados pianohacker: hiya
16:28 kados pianohacker: are you working on the 3.0 codebase?
16:29 pianohacker Yes
16:30 pianohacker I'll probably backport any patches to my workplace's 2.2.9 install, but yes
16:30 kados sweet, so submitting patches is a snap
16:30 kados here's a guide:
16:30 kados[…]lopment:git_usage
16:30 pianohacker kados: Ahh, thanks
16:30 kados and if you have questions after reading that shout out, we're all here to help :-)
16:31 gmcharlt pianohacker: I'm glad that you're working on 3.0 -- there's a lot of interest in the smart rules desgin
16:31 pianohacker Well, cool
16:31 kados smart_rules_design++
16:31 kados gmcharlt: pushed up the patches you sent
16:32 pianohacker For some godforsaken reason, our library has roughly 30 itemtypes, so a replacement for the 256 cell matrix came about by necessity
16:33 qiqo hi may i know who's incharge of the windows releases?
16:33 qiqo i couldnt see 2.2.9 anymore
16:36 kados qiqo: I believe fbcit is working on a windows installer that's native to koha 3
16:36 kados pianohacker: *nod*
16:37 fbcit qiqo: still aways to go on Koha 3 on win32
16:38 fbcit qiqo: I'm not familiar with the 2.2.9 win32 release
16:38 fbcit qiqo: but see
16:39 paul kados : i've an updated french translation. Should I send it directly to or ?
16:39 kados paul: send through patches
16:39 fbcit atz: YUI does have an uploader, but it's marked experimental currently.
16:39 paul done
16:40 qiqoqo when i create an adobe file, all that i can see in that file are the barcodes
16:41 qiqoqo no spinelabels and titles even i set the parameters correctly
16:41 fbcit atz:
16:42 fbcit qiqoqo: is this on win32?
16:42 qiqoqo yup
16:43 fbcit I'm not sure there, sorry.
16:43 qiqoqo no problem
16:43 fbcit qiqoqo: there is a win32 list
16:43 fbcit qiqoqo: see[…]stinfo/koha-win32
16:43 qiqoqo but i suspect that it's the items and biblioitems tables which is causing the problem
16:43 qiqoqo yeah im on with that list actually
16:45 qiqoqo ive searched the mailing list.. no luck
16:45 atz fbcit: interesting... flash player upload control
16:45 pianohacker I can see why they did; input type
16:46 pianohacker =file is somewhat crippled
16:46 atz yeah, being able to set a bigger SEND buffer is pretty cool too
16:46 fbcit atz: maybe I'll give it a closer look once I'm done with the other mods
16:47 qiqoqo i just want to ask,, i saw that my itemnumber column in my items table does not have anything,. so you think that's the problem?
16:47 atz isn't itemnumber the primary index?
16:48 atz that would be a problem.
16:48 kados yep
16:48 fbcit bbiab
16:54 qiqoqo hmm
16:59 qiqoqo sorry it was itemcallnumber
16:59 qiqoqo it's blank
17:00 qiqoqo nul
17:01 pianohacker qiqoqo: I can't see that being a huge problem
17:01 pianohacker How about biblioitems.itemtype?
17:02 qiqoqo biblioitems.itemtype is populated
17:13 qiqoqo ohh gosh..
17:18 qiqoqo hmm..
17:18 qiqoqo it really seems that it does not connect to biblioitems
17:20 paul to anyone having a git setup : is tools/hotlidays working for you ?
17:21 paul it's no more working for me (when I click on a day, the "Library" field is empty)
17:22 paul owen: " first, would it make sense to you to hide the form after you've submitted a search? I was thinking it made sense to give the whole page to the search results instead of redisplaying the form each time" ?
17:22 paul :
17:22 paul yes, it could be OK for me (if you have the breadcrumb)
17:23 paul pls if you're working on inventory, also try to understand why the printing display only 1st page (and thus only a small part of the list)
17:25 paul strange : it seems works fine with opera, but not with firefox
17:27 gmcharlt paul: I think I touched tools/ last -- I'll take a lok
17:27 gmcharlt look
17:28 paul thx
17:32 gmcharlt paul: seems OK to me -- when I click on a day, I see the branch code in the 'library' field (although I suppose as an enhancment it ought to display the name, not hte code)
17:32 paul are your superlibrarian ?
17:33 kados shouldn't it also have a 'default holidays' for all libraries?
17:33 paul kados : an other idea would be to be able to copy holidays from one branch to another
17:34 gmcharlt paul: yes
17:35 paul could you try without being (as i'm not)
17:35 paul note also that it works with Opera, so it's a dirty problem i'm afraid
17:36 kados paul: in the french translation, staff client, do you have 'Set' properly wrapped by two parentheses (Set) ?
17:36 kados paul: I'm just noticing that the german translation is missing the )
17:36 paul yes i do
17:36 paul (Définir)
17:36 kados strange
17:37 paul gmcharlt: when i'm superlibrarian, it works fine as well
17:37 kados I'm also seeing a few stray strings like the occassional \t
17:39 gmcharlt paul: still works as a non-superlibrarian user
17:40 paul :-(
17:40 gmcharlt paul: are you using the French templates -- might be a small XHTML error that's cropping in during tmpl_process or something
17:40 paul nope, I did the test in english
17:41 paul (I always work in english when testing, as I already have discovered that translation ADD problems ;-) )
17:57 paul time to leave for me. i'm in paris tomorrow, see you on monday (for a complete week at the office !!!!)
17:58 kados cya paul
17:58 paul (oups, no i've a meeting on thursday ;-) )
17:58 paul_away kados & all liblimer : have a good week at code4lib.
17:58 atz thx
17:58 paul_away "veinards" ;-)
18:12 atz there appears to be a ton of overdues related detritus in the codebase still
18:17 pianohacker I'm going to try to submit a template for the default set along with smart-rules; is there any style guide for that?
18:25 gmcharlt pianohacker: I can e-mail you the template I made when I updated your 2.2 template to 3.0 for my testing -- that should give you an idea
18:27 gmcharlt pianohac1er: (since it looks like you may have dropped out for a moment) I can e-mail you the template I made when I updated your 2.2 template to 3.0 for my testing -- that should give you an idea
18:27 pianohac1er Woops, wrong button
18:28 pianohac1er gmcharlt: Ahh, thank you
18:29 gmcharlt pianohac1er: email sent
18:40 qiqoqo it really seems that it does not connect to biblioitems
18:43 pianohacker Hmm. Only connection I can see is items.biblioitemnumber
18:43 pianohacker Is _that_ filled?
19:11 qiqoqo yup
19:11 qiqoqo it is
19:13 qiqoqo so which perl script does the job of forwarding data to the label-print-pdf
19:14 qiqoqo almost going crazy
19:23 kados hey tim
19:28 qiqoqo oh gosh,, going crazy over this
19:28 tim Hey kados
19:39 atz warn (length($var) > 100 ? "\$var is too big to display" : $var);    # cheap workaround
20:29 kados atz: got a sec to brainstorm?
20:29 atz ok
20:29 kados atz: I'm trying to overcome the problem where zebraqueue wails on C4::Context-dbh before the db is created
20:29 kados my thinking was an internal sub in
20:29 kados that manages the dbh ...
20:30 kados ie, when it's invalid, it sleeps 20 seconds and tries agin or something
20:30 atz i haven't looked inside zebraqueue much at all
20:32 atz probably should just do   my $dbh = C4::Context->dbh or sleep/warn /whatever
20:33 kados that would work once
20:33 atz my $sth = $dbh->prepare ("blahblah")   or  sleep/warn/whatever
20:33 kados woudln't it also throw an error with my ?
20:34 kados if that variable is used later?
20:34 atz it should declare the variable somewhere, if it uses it
20:35 atz it doesn't matter (to me) what scope it does the declaration in.  the Context call failing is the important thing to catch.
20:35 kados zebraqueue is a deamon, so it's persistant
20:35 kados we don't want it dieing
20:36 atz i didn't say die anywhere
20:36 kados well, if I go:
20:36 kados my $dbh = C4::Context->dbh or sleep 3;
20:36 kados $dbh->prepare(something)
20:36 kados that will kill the script if  C4::Context->dbh doesn't evaluate as true
20:36 atz you would need to kick out to redo the loop
20:37 kados because $dbh woudln't exist
20:37 atz right, see above
20:37 kados what loop?
20:37 kados I think that's just it, we need a loop
20:37 atz whatever block
20:37 kados every time there's a dbh call
20:37 kados so I'm thinking maybe an internal function for managing all dbhes?
20:38 kados does that make sense?
20:38 kados but then I begin wondering if that should, in fact be handled by ->dbh :-)
20:38 atz you can do      unless ($dbh = C4::Context->dbh )   { sleep 30;  warn "hey!~"; &some_log_function();}
20:39 atz there are many references to dbh, but only 1 connection
20:39 atz (per session)
20:39 atz so there is nothing to manage any further, as far as that goes
20:40 atz you might do something like C4::Daemon
20:40 atz and add the loopified, conditionally sleepy dbh stuff there
20:41 atz but I don't think it's much worth it, just for this
20:42 kados the alternative is 34,000 lines in your error logs every hour :-)
20:42 atz any problem w/ the unless version?
20:42 kados so that version still needs a loop
20:43 kados because what happens is after 30 seconds it logs the error and proceeds normally
20:43 kados what I think we need, is to capture the dbh call and make it sleepy every time it's called in this script
20:43 kados and re-try when it times out
20:44 kados ie, after 30 seconds, we want it to try again
20:44 kados and then wait another 30 seconds
20:44 atz while (!$dbh) {  the_rest_of_it }
20:44 kados and so-on
20:44 kados make sense?
20:44 atz this isn't that hard
20:44 kados my $dbh;
20:44 kados while (!$dbh) { $dbh = C4::Context->dbh }
20:44 kados like that?
20:46 atz while (!$dbh) { $dbh = C4::Context->dbh;  ($dbh) or warn/sleep/log;}
20:48 atz or you can do   while (1){ ... ;  $dbh and last;   warn;sleep;log;}
20:49 kados *nod*
20:49 atz i'd recommend the escalating kind of delay like TCP does.      
20:50 atz having already declared:   my $minsleep = 30;  my $maxsleep = 5000;
20:51 atz the sleep line becomes like:
20:51 atz sleep $minsleep *= 2;
20:52 atz sleep ($minsleep *= 2 > $maxsleep) ? $maxsleep : $minsleep;
20:53 kados I like it
20:53 kados thanks
20:53 atz yeah, that kind of thing is reasonable machine (or protocol) behavior
20:54 atz it's like, "well, you've been broken 6 times in  a row now, maybe I shouldn't still  be expecting you to be online in next second"
20:54 kados *nod*
20:58 atz someday, i might like to get deeper into zebra/zebraqueue code
20:59 atz look at benchmarking it (inside vs. ouside a VM), optimize caching, etc.
01:02 thd Is there a problem with or is it just me?
01:03 kados thd: working for me
01:03 kados thd: long time no see!
01:03 qiqoqo wow so you guys are releasing beta?
01:03 qiqoqo coool!
01:04 kados qiqoqo: soon my friend, soon
01:05 kados hopefully in time for Code4libCon
01:05 qiqoqo hehe wow great job guys
01:05 thd kados: I have remote: aborting due to possible repository corruption on the remote site
01:06 qiqo i can see the release notes for beta
01:06 qiqo i always get that error when i use the git repository,, sorta like with the indexing or stuff
01:06 kados qiqo: yep, they're not completely done
01:07 qiqo so excited.. our university launched it's own ils.. i dont like it.. it's over priced and they wont opensource it. hehe
01:07 thd qiqo: If you get that error, how do you use git?
01:08 qiqo i just folow the installation instruction on debian..
01:08 qiqo sorry i just merely forgot how to do that, im on a windows server machine at the moment,
01:09 qiqo copied and pasted the one which is in debianinstall which is option one..
01:10 qiqo anyway i never get successful with it so i always use option two
01:11 qiqo which is to download koha manually..
01:17 thd kados: when did you last fetch from git?
01:17 kados thd: this morning IIRC
01:18 kados thd: I'll try right now
01:18 kados thd: working fine for me thusfar
01:19 thd Yet I have this fatal error
01:19 thd for the past 3 hours
01:19 kados :(
01:22 pianohacker Hello there
01:23 pianohacker How should I add smart-rules to the admin-home page?
01:24 gmcharlt pianohacker:  add links to koha-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/prog/en​/modules/admin/admin-home.tmpl
01:24 gmcharlt and koha-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/prog​/en/includes/
01:24 pianohacker Okay, cool
01:24 gmcharlt in same fashion as links to
01:25 pianohacker How to deal with the overlap of functionality, though?
01:25 pianohacker Call it Circulation and Fines Rules (NEW) ?
01:27 gmcharlt Circulation and Fines Rules (alternative interface), perhaps
01:27 gmcharlt title can be changed later once everybody is comfortable with it and ready to remove (or deemphasize) the existing
01:29 pianohacker You guys use 4-space indentation, right?
01:30 pianohacker bbl
01:30 pianohacker|foo Engfeh
01:34 gmcharlt pianohacker|afk: 4-space indents in Perl code
01:34 gmcharlt pianohacker|afk: in practice, less disciplined indented in the HTML templates ;)
01:34 kados indenting html templates consistently is hard
01:36 gmcharlt hmm, is[…]oding%20standards all there is on the wiki -- could stand a little more meat, if so
01:39 kados there's also a page on the site
01:39 kados
01:39 kados that unfortunately isn't easy to edit
01:39 kados until we move to plone
01:53 fbcit g'night koha. I'm off to sleep.
01:55 thd kados: what does git --version report for you?
01:56 kados git --version
01:56 kados git version
01:57 thd I have the same so that cannot be the problem
01:57 kados try a fresh clone
01:57 thd :(
01:57 qiqo is there a way to recheck the database of koha? it seems that my problem is about the database.. i really cannot print spinelabels, i only get barcodes and item type, no call number
01:59 thd qiqo: did you create items for your bibiographic records with ca numbers?
02:00 thd s/ca/call/
02:01 qiqo yeah
02:01 qiqo 082, 900 series right?
02:01 qiqo both of them are filled up
02:03 thd qiqo: I do not mean the MARC 21 standard location for call numbers but the one specific for Koha items
02:04 qiqo where is that?
02:04 qiqo because i only see "null" on the itemcallnumber field on the items table
02:04 thd ]qiqo: I should know immediately but let me verify
02:04 qiqo that field is never populated
02:05 thd qiqo: which version are you testing
02:05 thd ?
02:05 qiqo 2.2.8 on windows
02:05 qiqo win 2003 server sp2
02:06 qiqo will it be fine if the cardinality of records from items table is not equal to the number of records in biblioitems?
02:09 thd qiqo: Koha should manage the incrementation for you and if it has done that should not be a problem
02:10 qiqo ahh ok
02:10 thd qiqo: Koha items should be in 952 for rel_2_2
02:11 qiqo let me check
02:11 thd and also for 3.0
02:11 qiqo it's 942 in mine
02:14 thd qiqo: I suspect that you are confusing 952 and 942
02:15 thd qiqo: 942 call numbers are only used for sorting
02:15 thd a result set
02:16 thd qiqo: of course you may have changed the defaults but unless you remember changing them you probably did not
02:17 thd qiqo: have you followed the step for some test records of adding items (copies) to your biblio records?
02:17 qiqoqo sorry bout that
02:17 qiqoqo got disconnected
02:18 qiqoqo darn isp
02:18 thd qiqo: have you followed the step for some test records of adding items (copies) to your biblio records?
02:18 qiqoqo nope.. i started from a blank db
02:18 qiqoqo previously i was on linux
02:19 qiqoqo and it's like i was printing spine labels manually
02:20 thd qiqooqo: well you cannot expect good results with an empty db but I expect that you did not mean to say that your DB is empty :)
02:20 qiqoqo ah.. only the framework
02:20 qiqoqo hehe
02:20 qiqoqo hmm.. i already have 300 records.. aww..
02:21 qiqoqo is started with 2.2.7, there was no spine label printing then
02:21 thd qiqoqo: and do those records have items (copies) attached for holdings?
02:22 qiqoqo yup
02:22 qiqoqo i use koha for my library
02:23 thd qiqoqo: in the same field as the one holding the barcode, probably 952 on a Koha MARC 21 system, do you have call numbers?
02:23 qiqoqo i started up with it.. so im in the middle of cataloguing things
02:25 qiqoqo field on the database?
02:26 qiqoqo as far as im concerned,  the field that only has the call number is biblioitems.classification
02:26 qiqoqo nothing for items.itemcallnumber, it's empty
02:26 thd qiqoqo: items.itemcallnumber
02:26 qiqoqo and if i put something on items.itemcallnumber it prints to the pdf
02:27 thd qiqoqo: hooray
02:28 qiqoqo but the problem is, i cant paste data from biblioitems.classification to items.itemcallnumber
02:28 qiqoqo they dont have the same cardinality
02:28 qiqoqo and the titles wont also print
02:29 thd qiqoqo: if you edit your items manually and add call numbers to each item then you should be fine
02:29 qiqoqo aww..
02:29 qiqoqo that's 300 records.. a
02:29 qiqoqo hehe
02:29 atz you can script yourself a mysql update
02:29 atz might be easier
02:30 qiqoqo haha,, i only have a limited knowledge on mysql
02:30 qiqoqo but hmm.
02:30 thd atz: qiqoqo is worried about a difference in cardinality
02:31 thd qiqoqo: there is something that can help
02:31 thd qiqoqo: what classification scheme are you using?
02:31 qiqoqo also the title is not printing im suspecting that its a miscommunication between items and biblioitems tables
02:31 qiqoqo DDC
02:32 thd qiqoqo: is 082 populated for your records?
02:32 qiqoqo 082 and 942
02:34 qiqoqo OMG i really dont want to startr over again, books are already on the shelves.
02:34 thd qiqoqo: can you export your records successfully in MARC 21?
02:35 qiqoqo hold on i'll try
02:35 qiqoqo ok i exported it
02:36 thd qiqoqo: are you more comfortable with Perl than SQL?
02:37 qiqoqo neither of them hehe..
02:37 qiqoqo i actually check the perlscripts..
02:38 qiqoqo the sql statements there seem to be fine
02:38 qiqoqo i really think it's with my database structure which causes the problem
02:39 thd qiqoqo: items.itemcallnumber is not filled automatically
02:39 qiqoqo well i havent tested this on 3.0 because im getting a "frey 50" thing on field 100
02:40 thd frey 50?
02:40 atz that's a marc21 error
02:40 atz i thought it was fixed though...
02:41 thd atz: qiqoqo is using 2.2.8
02:41 qiqoqo oh i already reported it
02:41 thd when does that error occur?
02:42 qiqoqo yeah when i exported 2.2.8, then it goes successfully
02:42 qiqoqo when i search the opac.. it has 'frey 50' after the author
02:42 qiqoqo and if a title does not have an author, system replaces it with a date in YYYYMMDD format + frey 50
02:43 qiqoqo tried it on zebra and non zebra
02:43 edjarima good night
02:43 qiqoqo gmcharlt already saw this.. and he said you're fixing it
02:43 qiqoqo we were on remote desktop connection last time
02:43 qiqoqo :)
02:43 edjarima good night
02:43 thd good night edjarima
02:44 qiqoqo nyty edjarima
02:46 qiqoqo so this problem was already fixed?
02:46 qiqoqo i can try it again..
02:48 thd qiqoqo: I assume that the fix requires updating to a CVS version of Koha
02:49 thd qiqoqp: but maybe you could merely copy one file which fixed the issue
02:52 thd qiqoqo: do you care what your barcodes are or anything else already in your items?
02:52 qiqoqo barcodes are printing fine
02:53 qiqoqo my only concern is the title and the call number..
02:53 qiqoqo i really cant do the manual thing anymore,, causes me stress.
02:54 thd qiqoqo: So you do not care about retaining some particular barcodes as long as they are unique?
02:54 qiqoqo hmm.. what do you mean..
02:55 qiqoqo i have to retain barcodes actually
02:55 qiqoqo because some of the stuff, merely 200 items already have their barcodes
02:55 qiqoqo and are on the shelves already
02:55 thd qiqoqo: OK
02:55 qiqoqo sorry if i dont understand it right..
02:56 thd you understood
02:56 qiqoqo oh cool.. hehe
02:56 qiqoqo my only frustration is that.. it's an ILS, automation, i should not go on with the manual thing
02:59 thd qiqoqo: there is some automation for adding call numbers in 2.2.8 but it is limited to adding something like 082 $a but misses $b so you would miss the cutter number
02:59 qiqoqo ohhh..
02:59 qiqoqo so can this be seen on 3.0?
03:00 thd qiqoqo: this feature in 2.2.8 also only works if you configure it and operates as part of the manual process for adding items
03:01 thd qiqoqo: your records could most easily be fixed from an exported set of records
03:01 qiqoqo uhuh
03:01 qiqoqo but will mess up my barcode right?
03:01 thd qiqoqo: no
03:01 qiqoqo ahh ok
03:02 pianohacker|afk Hrmfrgldammit
03:02 pianohacker|afk I can't get postfix to send correctly
03:02 thd the current version of my script would move them but you do not want that either
03:02 pianohacker|afk Is there some other way to get patches to the right place?
03:02 qiqoqo hmmm..
03:02 qiqoqo so im really traped..
03:03 thd qiqoqo: no I could fix the script
03:03 qiqoqo really?
03:03 qiqoqo but ill be shifting to 3.0 soon..
03:03 qiqoqo so.. i guess i'll have to wait until the frey 50 thing is fixed
03:03 thd qiqoqo: are you issuing items on loan already?
03:04 qiqoqo nope not yet
03:04 qiqoqo i'll be going to thailand and india to enter data from there
03:04 qiqoqo after that i'll open this library
03:04 qiqoqo my server is located here in manila
03:05 thd pianohacker: you could email an attachment to the correct address
03:05 pianohacker thd: That won't cause any problems?
03:06 pianohacker Cause if it would make their lives easier, I'll try to get this godforsaken thing working
03:06 thd pianohacker: you need the special magic word in the subject line to pass the spam filter
03:06 qiqoqo lol
03:06 thd pianohacker: do try to fix postfix of course
03:07 pianohacker thd: Weird thing is, it doesn't seem to be postfix; I can't telnet to any of gmail's incoming SMTP servers. Ah well
03:08 thd pioanohacker: add [patch] to the subject line of a manual message with the patch attached and the appropriate comment about its function in the subject and or body
03:09 qiqoqo hey i'll try 3.0 and see if things will get fixed
03:09 pianohacker Well, hope that worked
03:11 thd qiqoqo: call numbers are poorly automated in Koha record creation because of a lack of understanding by most of the programmers working on Koha about how they are used.
03:11 qiqoqo the last time gmcharlt screenshared with me, he saw some irregularities with my marc records and i think he fixed it
03:12 qiqoqo yeah thd, that's what my professor thinks about koha..
03:12 qiqoqo but anyway, he is also waiting for version 3.0 since they are going to deploy it in our National Library
03:13 thd qiqoqo: If you know someone who wants to sponsor much improved automation of adding call numbers it is not difficult to achieve but just time consuming to generalise properly.
03:13 qiqoqo he already sent some staff to learn perl
03:13 thd qiqoqo: which nation?
03:13 qiqoqo Philippines
03:14 qiqoqo hold on ill be transfering to my macbook
03:14 qiqoqo brb
03:16 pianohacker Night all
03:17 kados thd:  you may want to look more closely at call number handling in 3.0
03:17 kados thd: it's improved considerabley
03:17 thd kados: you did what you said there was no time to do? :)
03:17 kados thd: no, but gmcharlt did :-
03:18 kados )
03:18 kados though I will point out that apparantly call numbers are less and less important to libraries
03:19 kados for instance, worldcat local doesn't even support searching by call numbers
03:19 qiqo hmm then how do you search for the physical location of items?
03:20 qiqo well we're still old school here.. "location, co location"
03:20 thd kados: only ignorant librarians like the WorldCat who manage the WorldCat local project believe that
03:20 thd s/like the /like the ones/
03:21 qiqo @thd i dunno about worldcat, never heard it in library school
03:21 thd qiqo: WorldCat is the name of the OCLC union catalogue
03:22 qiqo ahh ok
03:22 qiqo oclc.. i get it
03:22 qiqo it may have been the name
03:22 qiqo we still rely on lc though..
03:22 qiqo well it's a part of the curiculum
03:23 thd qiqo: WorldCat local is OCLC's new OPAC which does not have other ILS features
03:23 qiqo well gonna research on that, i might teach at the university
03:24 thd qiqo: kados just told me that 3.0 development has some call number management features which I have not seen
03:24 qiqo ohh that's good
03:24 qiqo im installing debian at the moment.. etch right?
03:25 qiqo i already changed servers so i have no choice but to install it again
03:25 thd qiqo: If you can wait until 3.0 is usable you would be much better off than migrating from 2.2.X
03:25 qiqo hmmm... when would that be?
03:26 kados 3.0 is usable now
03:26 qiqo it's fine for me to test it anyways..
03:26 qiqo yeah i think 3.0 is usable
03:26 kados several libraries are in production with 3.0
03:26 thd kados: are there no terrifying bugs left?
03:26 qiqo i mean, the most important thing for us here is opac
03:26 kados thd: nope, only one annoying one with zebra
03:27 kados zebraqueue specifically
03:27 thd kados: I will have to file some ;)
03:27 kados but nothing that doesn't have a workaround to my knowledge
03:27 kados thd: :-)
03:28 qiqo aw..
03:28 thd qiqo: is the Philippine national library also the largest library in the Philippines?
03:28 qiqo nope,, the second one
03:29 qiqo the largest library is my university: University of the philippines
03:29 qiqo 1.5Million records
03:29 qiqo national lib i think only has 260,000
03:29 qiqo more or less
03:29 thd qiqo: is the University library also a copyright depository library for the Philippines?
03:30 qiqo when you publish a book in the philippines, you have to send a copy to national library and UP
03:31 thd qiqo: do you have the Z39.50 server parameters for those libraries?
03:31 qiqo hmmm i think there's none
03:31 qiqo they dont invest on those things
03:32 qiqo no z3950 servers here in the philippines to the best of my knowledge
03:32 atz wow, that's remarkable
03:32 thd qiqo: what classification and subject heading thesauri do they use?
03:32 qiqo libraries here rely on manual copycat from lc or ohio
03:33 qiqo UP is using LC classification and LC subject heading
03:33 kados qiqo: you will have a Z-server if you instal 3.0 :-)
03:33 qiqo wow!
03:33 qiqo hahaha
03:33 atz ohio?   (i live in ohio)
03:33 kados as will the national library
03:33 qiqo ohiolink
03:33 qiqo cool!
03:33 kados qiqo: a SRU server too
03:33 atz i used to work w/ INFOhio (the k12 version of OhioLink)
03:34 qiqo cool
03:34 qiqo yeah... but they have to customize things in the national lib
03:34 thd qiqo: what is done for cataloguing locally published material not in LC or OCLC?
03:35 qiqo LC SH and LC C is very limited for the US.. so they designed a customized LC SH and LC C
03:35 qiqo and sometimes we produce our own local theusaurus
03:36 qiqo as for the national library, it's DDC which they use
03:36 qiqo i dunno why? hehe
03:36 qiqo well gotta invite you guys to go to manila sometime..
03:36 qiqo haha
03:36 thd qiqo: what are the titles of the published standard for Philippine thesauri?
03:37 thd s/standard/standards/
03:38 qiqo well we have thesauri on local languages.. like we have 80 languages and dialects here in the philippines
03:38 qiqo we also have philippine medical thesaurus
03:38 qiqo and i tell you guys, if our asian neighbours here in the philippines see that the national library is using koha, they might follow us
03:39 qiqo we have thesaurus for women studies
03:40 thd qiqo: can you send me a list of the titles of those thesauri?
03:40 qiqo hold on ill check
03:41 qiqo thd what is your email?
03:41 qiqo or can i just post here?
03:41 thd qiqo: koha AT
03:41 thd qiqo: but you could post it here
03:42 thd qiqo: after all everyone should want to know
03:43 thd qiqo: you should have a little help migrating your exported 2.2.X records to Koha 3.0
03:44 qiqo ahmm yeah i think so
03:44 qiqo like indexing zebra and stuff
03:45 thd qiqo: Koha specific default fields and subfields have been rearranged so the records should be changed accordingly.
03:46 qiqo ohh what does that ean
03:46 qiqo mean
03:46 thd qiqo: If you have no patrons, loans, etc. to migrate then the task should be fairly easy.
03:47 qiqo ahh nope, dont have that yet
03:47 qiqo i have a question, since im only the librarian here in our organization..
03:48 thd qiqo: EAN? European Article Number or standard barcode symbology for products
03:49 qiqo and the task for the national library is to deploy koha as replacement for TLC
03:49 qiqo since there is division of work there.. my professor asks if they could like assign priviledges?
03:50 qiqo thd,, im using code39
03:50 qiqo like for the ones who only catalogues... or on the circulation desk
03:50 kados qiqo: has the national library considered getting support from a koha vendor?
03:51 kados qiqo: or your university even?
03:51 thd qiqo: yes, Koha has a very flexible system for restricting different librarians to different types of privileges
03:51 qiqo oh ok
03:52 qiqo @kados we are thinking about that, but at the moment, i guess they need training first
03:52 thd qiqo: privileges are documented very well in one or more of the documents on setting up Koha
03:52 qiqo oh ok
03:53 qiqo ill talk to my professor one of this days,, we will have a beer session or something
03:53 qiqo well i need to tell him to request from one of you guys to go here in manila
03:54 thd qiqo: migrating any large collection should have assistance
03:54 qiqo because they are actually fed up paying $30,000 every year for a lousy ILS
03:54 qiqo yeah,, ill be telling him about that
03:54 atz amen!
03:55 thd qiqo: even with only 300 books so far in the database that you have been using, fixing something simple is more work than you want to undertake manually
03:56 qiqo hehe
03:57 qiqo look at their opac:
03:59 thd kados: I think I found the answer
03:59 qiqo brb i'll take a shower
03:59 thd kados: "Trying again somewhat later went through flawlessly [not for me]. Might have been git running out of memory."
04:00 thd kados: I no longer have enough free RAM to update my git repository even in console mode
04:12 qiqo back..
04:19 qiqo mygosh you a daemon killer... you're archangel lolz
04:30 thd apparently I did not kill enough daemons
04:40 thd git is working so far now hooray
04:41 thd kados: do you have any spare RAM cards for me?
04:42 qiqo how much ram do you have thd?
04:43 thd qiqo: 256 MB with many daemons running
04:43 thd git finally failed although at a much later point
04:44 qiqo ohh ok
04:44 qiqo ddr or ddr2?
04:45 thd qiqo: pre DDR SDRAM
04:47 thd qiqo: my money always goes to pay for non-computer necessities each month with nothing remaining to fix these little problems
04:48 qiqo awww..
04:48 qiqo wish i could help you ther
04:48 qiqo i have spare here, but shipping might have been a lot more expensive than buying a new one
04:48 qiqo :)
04:50 thd qiqo: RAM is very cheap now but my landlord is very expensive :)
04:52 thd s/cheap now/cheap now compared to even 2 years ago/
04:53 qiqo yeah
04:54 qiqo like ddr2 is a lot cheaper
04:54 qiqo if could fit 4GB in my macbook id love to do that
04:54 qiqo but im only limited with 2
04:55 qiqo hmm brb lunck
04:55 qiqo hmm brb lunch

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