IRC log for #koha, 2007-11-30

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
14:01 owen paul?
14:25 paul hi owen
14:25 owen Hi paul, I had a question about your RSS bug
14:25 owen I found the markup that got taken out
14:26 owen It's wrapped in TMPL_IF "RSS"... Is that a system pref?
14:26 paul no, iirc
14:33 owen ?
14:33 owen And where does <!-- TMPL_VAR name="site_url"--> come from?
14:36 paul (and i'm the author of that, so I should, sorry)
14:36 owen Shall I reassign the bug to you?
14:38 paul it used to work, so someone should have removed something. but assign it to me, i'll investigate when I have some time. Note that "opensearch" pb is not for me
14:39 owen the opensearch stuff I copied from dev_week, thinking it was coming along with other fixes coming over from dev_week.
14:39 owen It's easily removed if provides the same functionality
14:44 paul owen, does opac work for you atm ?
14:45 paul (because it does not work for me, on an uptodate opac setup)
14:45 paul http://o16.bureau.paulpoulain.[…]koha/ (search "histoire")
14:45 paul while the staff works fine
14:46 owen Yeah, except for a problem with the layout of the advanced search page, everything seems to be working okay for me. I'm not getting the error that you are.
14:47 paul mmm... there's something wrong with the translator...
14:48 owen Could that be what's causing the problem with the layout? Looks much different from mine:[…]koha/
14:49 paul i've switched to english, and the look is the same
14:50 owen Really? It fixes it for me, on your site
14:51 paul i mean same as you.
14:51 paul but still impossible to search :-(
15:02 fbcit g'morning koha
15:02 paul hi fbcit
15:18 paul owen : strange, OPAC works for 2 of my 3 setups, but not for o16...
15:18 paul (works fine for o11 and o15)
15:24 hdl paul : have you checked that your QueryStemming QueryFuzzy and other is disable ?
15:24 hdl (32 enables it by default.)
15:24 paul yep, the search works for staff
15:25 paul it does not work only for opac
15:25 paul I get the following query in zebra :
15:25 paul 16:23:50-29/11 zebrasrv(20) [request] Search biblios ERROR 114 1 1+0 RPN @attrset Bib-1 @not chaos @or @and @and @and lost st-numeric gt 0 @not @attr "1=_ALLRECORDS" @attr 2=103 '' @attr 1=8002 @attr 2=103 ''
15:35 hdl lost st-numeric gt 0
15:35 hdl set off hide lostitems.
15:35 hdl paul
15:36 hdl it should work.
15:36 paul it's already off, sorry
15:37 hdl then... you should NOT have lost st-numeric gt 0
15:37 hdl I already bugged kados about that.
15:38 hdl I set it on then back off and
15:38 hdl search happend to work.
15:39 paul gotcha !!!
15:39 paul it works !!!
15:59 fbcit can someone provide me with a concise set of symlinks that need to be created to run koha from my clone (aka dev install)?
16:00 owen Line 342 of
16:00 owen if ($getiteminfo->{'holdingbranch'} ne $num_res->{'branchcode'} ) {
16:00 owen        $getWaitingReserveInfo{waitingat}    = GetBranchName( $num_res->{'branchcode'} );
16:00 owen        }
16:01 owen That's supposed to show the location of the item if the item is not waiting at the branch where the librarian is logged in?
16:11 owen If only dewey were here, he'd know
16:19 fbcit owen: any thoughts on why when I go to change marc framework under "Add MARC Record" the resulting form has no fields?
16:19 fbcit am I missing a setting somewhere?
16:20 owen fbcit: from
16:20 owen sorry:
16:20 fbcit that's it
16:21 owen Do you have "Default" in the framework drop-down?
16:21 fbcit Default displays ok, the sample frameworks do not.
16:22 owen So you know you have more than just the default framework, but they're not showing up?
16:22 fbcit I have dropped the db and reinstalled it twice now with the same effects..
16:22 fbcit right
16:24 fbcit the drop-down shows all 8 sample frameworks as available...
16:24 owen Ah, but when you choose one, the page reloads as empty?
16:24 fbcit exactly
16:26 owen Sorry, no clue. But then again, the only framework I have is the default one.
16:30 fbcit :-(
16:31 ryan fbcit: fbcit works ok for me
16:32 ryan must have been an error in adding the framework data
16:32 fbcit ryan: it worked for me yesterday too, but then I dropped the db and reinstalled and you know the rest...
16:34 owen fbcit, did your install come with 8 sample frameworks?
16:35 fbcit owen: yes. they are in installer/data/mysql/en/marcflavour/marc2​1/optional/marc21_simple_bib_frameworks.sql I believe....
16:37 fbcit hrm... probably unrelated, but " Warning: something's wrong at /usr/lib/cgi-bin/kohaclone1/circ/ line 199."
16:39 fbcit it looks like the sample frameworks loaded ok.
16:47 ryan owen: i do get a wacky flash of multicolored lines behind the 'loading' box
16:49 owen Is it the graphic?
16:52 ryan related, anyway.
16:52 ryan might just be css issue
16:52 ryan i'll file a bug if it persists
16:52 paul ok, problem solved for me : I can search on opac and the behaviour is the same in french and in english !
16:53 paul was tricky...
16:53 ryan fbcit: must be problem with installer.
16:55 ryan fbcit: you can manually apply installer/data/mysql/en/marcflavour/marc2​1/optional/marc21_simple_bib_frameworks.sql
16:56 fbcit I don't think that's it as when I do the import manually, mysql complains about dup keys
16:56 fbcit and bails out
16:56 fbcit so it would appear the data is already loaded...
16:57 ryan and /cgi-bin/koha/admin/
16:57 ryan what do you see frm 'MARC Structure' links there ?
16:59 fbcit Create framework for SR (Audio Cassettes, CDs) using Default...
16:59 fbcit with no other options in the drop-down
16:59 fbcit ?
17:20 fbcit ryan: you were right... the framework data did not fully load for some reason...
17:21 fbcit I'll take a look at
17:21 fbcit tnx ryan, owen
17:24 ryan fbcit: there's quite a bit of work being done on installer right now, with a bunch of patches in the queue
17:33 owen ryan and/or atz: have we got the date-picker widget working properly with the dateformat system pref?
17:33 atz yes
17:33 owen I get errors from the ones on, and the format is wrong for the one on
17:33 atz but not every script uses it yet
17:33 owen It's a script issue?
17:34 atz if you see  "use C4::Date"  
17:34 atz instead of   "use C4::Dates"
17:34 atz then it is still the "old style"
17:34 atz somewhere my patches of C4 modules were reverted recently too
17:35 atz so basically, the module is fine but the integration is lacking
17:36 atz that's on my plate after I polish up my LDAP integration
17:36 owen Forgive the Perl-ignorant question, but what does C4:Dates do compared to Date::Calc?
17:37 atz Calc allows you to say "how many days between X and Y dates"
17:37 atz C4::Dates just provides the format-independent and syspref-aware date storage
17:37 atz it doesn't do computation
17:38 owen gotcha
17:39 owen So atz, you'll be doing a systematic look at date-handling in scripts, so I shouldn't file bugs for date problems?
17:39 atz if it is still using C4:Date, then you don't need to bother
17:40 atz but if it is Dates, then please do
17:40 owen Okay
17:40 ryan owen: should be correct.
17:41 atz there are likely to be some snags w/ different javascript validation functions that are not in the same pattern of usage
17:41 owen ryan, I'm getting iso format dates from the date picker even though my sys pref says US
17:42 ryan ah, i see.
17:42 ryan i'll update that.
17:42 atz i think that was a patch from paul recently
17:42 atz moving the default from "if object declared in a format, then remember the format" to "forget declared format, default to syspref"
17:43 atz which I can see now fits our application better
17:44 ryan so  DHTMLformat   => C4::Dates->DHTMLcalendar(),
17:46 ryan seems to return wrong format now.
17:46 atz ?
17:46 ryan should return syspref fmt , right ?
17:46 ryan not iso ?
17:48 atz sub DHTMLcalendar ($;$) {   # interface to posix_map
17:48 atz    my $class = shift;
17:48 atz    my $format = (@_) ? shift : $prefformat;
17:48 atz    return $posix_map{$format};
17:48 atz }
17:49 atz not much to it.
17:49 ryan i'm not seeing the problem.
17:49 atz me either.
17:50 atz lol
17:50 atz nice.
17:51 ryan huh
17:51 ryan ok, owen's right
17:51 atz if you had iso syspref... you get iso
17:53 atz try this:  perl -MC4::Dates -e 'print C4::Dates->DHTMLcalendar, "\n";'
17:54 atz perl -MC4::Dates -e 'print C4::Dates->new->format(), "\n";'
17:59 atz rch: i have a high degree of certainty those tests will produce correct results
18:00 ryan yeah - is template bug.
18:00 ryan my fault
18:02 atz i get some updatedabase errors
18:02 atz DBD::mysql::db do failed: Duplicate column name 'damaged' at /home/atz/koha/production/intranet/cgi-bi​n/installer/data/mysql/ line 561.
18:05 atz also duplicates:  column name 'itype' (line 584), entries 'QueryStemming','QueryFuzzy','QueryWeightFields'  for key 1 (lines 711-713)
18:05 ryan np there
18:05 atz i assume this is fine, since it's just dups
18:05 ryan yep
19:13 fbcit uhoh...
19:14 fbcit when attempting to add a marc record retrieved from, I get the following:
19:14 fbcit Can't coerce array into hash at /usr/lib/cgi-bin/kohaclone​1/cataloguing/ line 690.
19:47 [K] *** join #koha@FreeNode: rangi
20:03 fbcit hi chris
20:04 chris hi
20:06 fbcit chris: what is the relationship between authorities and marc records?
20:08 chris ahhh thats a librarian question :) basically from what ive gathered, you have authority records to stop you having 28 slightly different spellings of an authors name
20:08 chris or subjects
20:09 fbcit I'm trying to figure out why things break when I go to save a marc record imported from
20:10 owen-away Did you get an error when you tried that?
20:10 chris
20:10 fbcit yes
20:10 fbcit Can't coerce array into hash at /usr/lib/cgi-bin/kohaclone​1/cataloguing/ line 690.
20:10 owen I got an error yesterday when I tried to save something that I grabbed via z3950.
20:10 fbcit looks like there is no authority record....
20:10 owen But then the next time I tried something it worked okay.
20:11 fbcit and the 'else' breaks
20:11 fbcit do I have to create authorities for each 'foo'... whatever 'foo' is?
20:11 owen I don't understand--why do you think it's related to authority records?
20:12 chris no you shouldnt have to
20:12 fbcit owen: only because it breaks in the section of code which looks like it builds an authority record when none exists....
20:16 gmcharlt fbcit: this is code that is automatically trying to create authority records for each bib heading
20:17 gmcharlt if this is blocking something else you're pursuing, you can turn off the BibloAddsAuthorities preference
20:17 gmcharlt to disable this
20:18 fbcit gmcharlt: I'm actually trying to get a copy into production here. Is turning it off a "safe" option?
20:18 owen gmcharlt: Koha now creates authority records every time a record is saved?
20:18 gmcharlt yes -- automatically creating authorities is not something every library will want turned on
20:18 chris ohh how cool
20:19 fbcit should it work ok?
20:19 gmcharlt fbcit: yes, it should
20:19 fbcit bugzilla?
20:19 gmcharlt yeah, go ahead and file a bug
20:20 gmcharlt it may be a configuration issue -- either missing framework or setting up Zebra authority index
20:20 gmcharlt but if it is just config, probably indicates install doc bug
20:20 chris i suspect youd get a bunch of duplicates ... but for places like NZ .. where the national library charges an arm and a leg for authority records
20:21 chris a lot of libraries will like it
20:21 gmcharlt main issue I have it with is that it happens completely silently to the cataloger at the moment
20:21 aklibrarian As a librarian, I would like it if it asked my approval before adding it.
20:21 gmcharlt cataloger should have an option to review the new records first
20:21 aklibrarian gm, I agree with you
20:21 chris ahhh yep good point
20:22 fbcit so authority records basically help enforce rules?
20:22 fbcit data entry rules?
20:22 fbcit for marc records?
20:23 gmcharlt fbcit: that's a part of it
20:23 gmcharlt here's authority records in a nutshell:
20:23 gmcharlt 1. create unique entry for each name or subject heading
20:23 gmcharlt 2. related different forms of names (e.g., think of Shakespeare's name in every language his plays were published in)
20:24 gmcharlt 3. link subjects -- i.e., urology is a part of medicine; or if you're interested in cars, see automobiles
20:25 gmcharlt 4. link variant forms of titles for the same work -- e.g., "War and Piece" is the English name of whatever the Russian title is
20:25 gmcharlt War and Peace, rather
20:25 gmcharlt 5. (and in a way, this is the least important function) catch typos when entering access headings
20:25 gmcharlt here endeth the nutshell
20:25 chris :)
20:26 fbcit gmcharlt: so authorities can be added after the fact?
20:26 gmcharlt often
20:26 gmcharlt e.g., if you're cataloging the first book by an author, no authority exists yet, so you can create one for that person
20:27 owen fbcit: In the U.S. libraries are probably most accustomed to buying their authority records from someone else, rather than creating them from scratch
20:27 gmcharlt national libraries and library collectivies like LC, OCLC, NLA, NLNZ, etc maintain big authority files
20:27 owen I think in France the records are free to Frech libraries
20:27 gmcharlt so yeah, as owen said, most catalogers try to look up and get a valid authority record before creating one from scratch
20:27 fbcit I notice that has auth records for free
20:28 gmcharlt yep, but at present not in the most convenient fashion to actually get at
20:28 gmcharlt so people often end up paying OCLC or so-called authority control vendors for the records
20:29 gmcharlt the authority control vendors can also analyze a library's bib file, determine which authorities fit, and supply the authorities in a MARC file
20:29 gmcharlt authority control vendors can also correct outdated forms of various headings
20:30 owen Someone's gotta add a year to all the recently-dead authors...
20:30 fbcit :-)
20:30 gmcharlt and you'd be amazed about the long and bitter debates about author death dates in name authority records
20:31 owen Wow, I can think of better things to do with my time!
20:31 fbcit so really I should: 1. turn off the BibloAddsAuthorities &&
20:32 fbcit 2. Get some accurate auth records
20:32 aklibrarian I don't know anyone that has enough time to worry about death dates.
20:32 fbcit 3. Add marc records...?
20:32 owen fbcit, there's no reason why you /need/ authority records
20:35 gmcharlt right -- MARC 21 authority support is in fact in need of tweaking atm
20:35 fbcit do authority records assist in patron searches as well?
20:35 owen One benefit of having authority records is that the patron can browse by authority in the OPAC
20:36 owen I'm not sure how Koha does it, but other systems use authority records to provide feedback to the patron about "see also" references
20:36 fbcit ok, so I think I'll proceed w/o them for the time being.
20:37 fbcit tnx everyone for the MARC 21 Authorities 101 class... :-)
20:39 aklibrarian I don't think they help that much  Either that or I haven't taught my patrons enough about their use.
20:39 owen aklibrarian: With Koha, or another system?
20:42 aklibrarian Any system
20:42 aklibrarian Koha will the third I have used.
20:43 aklibrarian I don't know if any of my patrons use it as much as they should, but I am trying this year.
20:43 aklibrarian This is the first year we will have interlibrary loan between branches.
20:44 masonj morning #koha
20:44 fbcit hi masonj
20:46 aklibrarian I love being at my desk.  I am trying to install Koha on Ubuntu this morning.  It is much easier to do from your own desk and not in a different village.
20:47 masonj hiya back fbcit
20:48 fbcit one other librarian type question....
20:49 fbcit when importing a marc record, does one modify the dewey decimal classification number to match the local copy?
20:51 aklibrarian I change it
20:51 aklibrarian The local copy gets it from 082
20:52 fbcit tnx aklibrarian
21:11 owen chris?
21:12 chris yep
21:12 owen do you have ReservesNeedReturns turned on in sys prefs?
21:12 chris lemme check
21:13 chris ahh that'll be it
21:13 chris its off
21:14 owen Off for me too
21:14 chris hmm  then maybe not
21:14 chris weird
21:14 chris ill turn it on and retest
21:17 chris ok reserved it to be picked up at southwest bend
21:17 chris gonna return it to main
21:18 chris i get hold found
21:18 chris and a button to confirm and transfer
21:18 chris clicked that
21:18 chris now im gonna go return it at southwest bend
21:19 chris hold found (item is already waiting)
21:19 chris seems to be working fine
21:19 chris hmm do you have independentbranches on?
21:20 owen Dang, working for me now too. I wonder if I've got the steps wrong
21:20 owen Or maybe I'm just crazy
21:20 chris heh
21:21 owen Are you seeing the "hold waiting" message on the circ screen of the patron you reserved for?
21:21 chris havent looked, ill go check
21:21 chris yep there it is
21:23 owen Right there on the screen, rather than down in the "holds" tab?
21:24 chris its in both places
21:24 chris on the right, and in the holds tab
21:24 owen I'm not seeing the message on the right for my patron. Does that patron have other messages?
21:24 chris yep, overdue and fines
21:25 chris that might be the issue a misplaced tmpl_if maybe
21:25 owen There must be a bug in the template for those with no other messages. I'll have to check it out tomorrow
21:25 owen Thanks for your help chris
21:25 chris no worrie
21:25 chris s
23:31 aklibrarian Chris, I am back to installing Koha.  I am trying to Open Hints and I can't do it.  It tells me permission denied.  Any ideas?  I am using Ubuntu
23:31 chris open hints?
23:32 aklibrarian I tried that and i get permission denied.  Unable to open vt 7
23:32 chris i meant what is open hints? im unsure what you are trying to do
23:34 aklibrarian Hints is one of the files in the program
23:34 aklibrarian I want to open it before I go on to see how it could help me, I seem to need a lot of help.
23:35 chris ahh im fairly sure nothing in there will be helpful, let me just check
23:37 chris nope thats old and out of date
23:37 aklibrarian lol, I have been trying to open it for an hour now.
23:38 chris you have the installing koha on ubuntu webpage eh ... thats about the best resource there is for getting 2.2.9 going on ubuntu
23:39 chris basically you have to get all the software koha depends on, like mysql, and apache and the perl modules installed, then as root run perl
23:41 aklibrarian That worked.  Thanksz
23:49 aklibrarian I found that I only thought I had all the prerequisistes done for this.
01:10 aklibrarian Is YAZ 2.1.8 earlier than 2.1.5  I am getting an installation error for this.
01:11 masonj_ hmm, its a later version.
01:12 aklibrarian I thought it was, but I get an error message that I have YAZ 2.1.8 AND I need at least 2.1.50
01:13 masonj_ ah,  2.1.5 is 45 versions behind 2.1.50 :)
01:14 aklibrarian Got it.  I thought the numbering was different.
01:14 masonj_ yeah,  2.1.50 isnt
01:15 masonj_ its got me before too :)
01:18 aklibrarian Does the command sudo perl -MCPAN -e ' install "You will need PDF::AP12 for barcode generator"' Sound correct
01:20 masonj_ try, sudo perl -MCPAN -e ' install "PDF::AP12"'
01:21 aklibrarian Cannot install PDF::AP12, don't know what it is
01:22 masonj_ ooh, typo
01:22 masonj_ API2, not AP12
01:23 masonj_ I not 1
01:32 aklibrarian Correct words makes all the difference

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