IRC log for #koha, 2007-11-20

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
12:41 [K] *** join #koha@FreeNode: ru55el
13:57 [K] *** join #koha@FreeNode: dbs n=dan@pdpc/supporter/active/denials
14:42 owen Does the OPAC's subject cloud feature need special configuration?
14:42 kados owen: no, but you do need to run a script to get it working
14:42 kados I'll give you the syntax ... just a sec
14:42 kados yea
14:43 kados well frankly I looked at that feature over the weekend, along with the 'hierarchy' one and they aren't really ready for 3.0 IMO
14:43 kados unfortunately
14:43 owen Hi atz
14:44 atz greets owen
14:44 kados owen: perl/misc/ -f 050a -t 650 -c
14:45 kados that will get you a subject cloud composed of 650 fields
14:45 kados owen: but the browser feature doesn't work currently
14:45 kados we need to write an english DDC and/or LOC mapping between classification and 'definition'
14:45 kados I think this feature should be disabled by default for 3.0
14:46 kados and perhaps emerge as an official feature in 3.2 or thereafter
14:46 kados hdl or paul around?
14:46 paul yep
14:46 hdl yes
14:47 kados I think we need to talk soon about the searching api
14:47 paul hi kados. I agree about having this feature of by default.
14:47 paul I wanted to suggest it... as search is badly broken
14:47 paul (i'm investigating why, and it appears that it's related to the API)
14:47 kados because the pattern thusfar seems to be that we are overwriting each other's code and breaking features that are important
14:48 paul atm, the search on author don't work for us.
14:48 kados yep
14:48 hdl And in fact, search on anything but kw
14:48 kados in dev_week the search works nearly perfectly
14:48 hdl is broken.
14:49 paul I think it's related to index / limits variables
14:49 kados there were quite a few changes introduced, some of them I'm not sure I understand
14:49 kados especially related to the limits
14:49 kados that section has been re-written
14:50 kados one thing that I find strange
14:50 kados in addition
14:50 kados is the use of wrdl
14:50 kados ie, where I would just use kw, it seems you tend to use kw,wrdl
14:51 kados I don't understand the justification for that
14:51 kados also, some of the other ccl qualifiers have changed names
14:51 kados rt has turned into rtrn
14:51 kados same with lt
14:52 kados and the human_search_desc seems to have been completely refactored
14:52 paul kw, drdl I can explain. I don't know for the others
14:52 kados also, I made an effort to document carefully every block in
14:53 kados but a lot of the new stuff isn't documented in the code at all
14:53 paul when you search "the two towers" as kw. Don't you expect to get all biblios with "two" and "towers" in the biblio ?
14:53 paul (whereever those words are)
14:53 kados yep
14:53 kados I understand what wrdl is
14:54 paul how can you achieve that without wrdl ?
14:54 kados but I don't understand why you need to define it as user-facing search syntax
14:54 kados just map it to word list behind the scenes
14:54 paul user facing search ???
14:54 kados (what the user sees)
14:55 paul the user don't see it (unless he looks at the html, of course)
14:55 paul whay you would prefer would be to have that at zebra level ?
14:55 kados keyword is defined as a wordlist already
14:56 paul maybe I made wrong then. hdl, any idea ?
14:56 kados so it's unnecessary to add wrdl to the definition
14:56 paul (or maybe my zebra config file was/is wrong, and I solved the problem an improper way)
14:56 kados same applies for au, ti, etc.
14:59 hdl kados : in fact, changes are mostly due to the fact that some searches and links were used an unexpected way.
15:00 hdl For instance human search desc was used for page searching.
15:01 hdl I thought it was your way to think things.
15:01 hdl So I had to make human searchdesc be something taht could be processed by zebra.
15:02 kados hmmm
15:02 hdl (which to my mind was quite unclear since zebra ccl is not what I would call human readable)
15:02 kados human search shoudln't have been used for page searching
15:02 kados wait ...
15:02 kados no, not human search
15:02 kados federated search
15:02 kados that's the one that is machine readable
15:03 kados human search is human readable
15:04 hdl About wrdl, I thought that use simple blocks was much more efficient on the long run than hiding all the wrdl in
15:04 hdl if you take au = au,wrdl
15:05 hdl you cannot do a search au,phr
15:05 kados wrdl is zebra's default
15:05 hdl No.
15:05 kados so you don't need to define au = au,wrdl
15:05 hdl it is not.
15:05 hdl At first when we typed paul Saint
15:05 hdl as an author
15:06 hdl we got no or wrong results because it searched paul and then saint
15:06 hdl This is why I had to add wrdl.
15:07 kados
15:07 paul (hdl is not speaking of me here, he speak of the St paul of the holy bible ;-) )
15:07 kados hehe
15:07 kados hdl: take a look at the way it works in dev_week
15:07 kados we have au and au,phr
15:08 kados in
15:08 kados Author 5=1 1=1003 s=pw
15:08 kados au Author
15:08 kados and then:
15:08 kados st-phrase 4=1
15:08 kados phr st-phrase
15:09 hdl s stands for ?
15:10 kados structure
15:10 kados identical to 4
15:10 hdl In our until today, we donot have s=pw
15:10 kados yep, someone removed it I'm afraid
15:11 hdl It is not added for all the subjects.
15:11 hdl which should be searchable via word or phrase.
15:12 kados for subjects we should have two options:
15:12 hdl (I found it on your /etc/
15:12 kados 1. with authorities, search authorities db, and show headings in results
15:12 kados 2. without authorities, search biblios fields and show results in results
15:13 hdl This would be the same as Auth link vs "Link" link
15:14 hdl (Where Auth jumps to the authorities and display authnumber=authid)
15:14 hdl (Link does a search on the subfield content in biblios)
15:16 kados where is that link?
15:16 hdl link is the old feature in koha2.2
15:16 hdl which allow you to search biblio database for a value in a field
15:17 hdl It use to take in a '200f','200g' list
15:17 hdl But now, it takes an index.
15:18 kados right
15:18 hdl where is word list stated by default ?
15:19 kados word list is default for zebra
15:19 kados it's the 'any' definition in bib1 I think
15:20 kados nope, I'm wrong
15:25 owen Is opac/ used?
15:32 gmcharlt owen: yes, it's where OPAC user is directed if DB is in need of a databaseupdate
15:33 owen Ah, I thought it might be something controlled by a system pref
15:33 kados owen: it is controlled by a syspref in dev_week
15:33 kados owen: which is useful if you are, for instance, re-indexing your bib data
15:33 kados it's on my list of things to port
16:07 owen In my test installation, there are many places where the call number does not appear (, for instance)
16:07 owen the list of checkouts
16:21 hdl kados : is devweek up to date for search code ?
16:22 hdl Do you think I should investiguate And try harder and get it work on rel_3_0 ?
16:40 hdl kados ?
16:47 hdl kados : buildQuery seems to always return undef as first parameter. Why is it that way ?
17:07 paul owen around ?
17:07 owen yes
17:07 paul I've a question about detail.tmpl.
17:07 paul is it important for you to have the title in <h1> ?
17:07 owen Why do you ask?
17:07 paul because for french libraries, it's something ... mmm... fool ?
17:08 paul the ? being that I'm not sure of the term
17:08 owen I don't understand
17:08 paul but they find that : strange, annoying, non isbd standard, and many other adverb that I can't copy here ;-)
17:08 paul they want something like :
17:08 paul title [itemtype] / author
17:08 paul in a standard size, not that large
17:09 paul and in the yui-block, not on top.
17:09 paul so, is it important for us libraries to have things as you did them ?
17:09 owen Can you show me an example of another French interface that uses that kind of formatting?
17:10 paul
17:10 paul sudoc catalogue
17:10 paul type "harry potter" in the 1st <input
17:10 paul choose the 1st.
17:10 paul you should see :
17:11 paul Titre : Harry Potter et la coupe de feu [Texte imprimé] / J. K. Rowling ; trad. de l'anglais par Jean-François Ménard
17:11 owen I can't reach
17:11 paul title : Harry potter and the fire cup [printed] / JK Rowling, translated from english by JF Ménard
17:11 paul maybe ?
17:12 paul yep
17:14 owen I'm not sure how to solve our difference. All the major examples I look at show it as a heading:
17:14 owen
17:14 owen
17:15 paul :(
17:18 owen anyway, you get the idea. To me the format in the sudoc example is less friendly
17:19 hdl owen : but it is less useful for a research index.
17:19 paul owen : maybe moving the title inside the yui-b & lowering the size ot the title could be more friendly.
17:19 owen I'm not sure what you mean, hdl
17:20 paul + I thing the large space between the 2 columns is something that make the libraries unhappy
17:21 hdl if you are a student or a searcher, having things presented in a way that is close to normalized ISBD is more interesting.
17:21 owen Then shouldn't ISBD be set as the default biblio view for those institutions?
17:22 hdl (If we had zotero interface, this argument would not be so interesting. But at the moment, since we have many institutions ...)
17:51 paul owen: in the bibloitems table, there is a "place" table.
17:51 paul is it for the "place of publication" or is there another meaning for this "place"?
17:52 owen place of publication.
17:52 paul (this "place" is not in detail.tmpl, and could be added)
17:52 owen Ah, you're right.
18:13 owen paul:
18:14 owen kados: that also shows the view tabs I worked on the other day (still not committed)
18:19 hdl owen : when there is many notes, things are quite unbalanced.
18:20 owen the alternative is to stick with the single-column layout of 2.x
19:29 owen Should the ISBD view be considered a replacement for the "normal" view? Will ISBD fans want to see the normal view too?
19:33 owen ISBD doesn't show holdings, of course...
20:25 owen ryan: kados and I have been trying to draw a distinction between "views" and "actions" in the UI, with actions in a toolbar and views in a sidebar menu
20:26 owen That's our justification for moving the views out of the toolbar
20:33 fbcit g'afternoon koha
20:39 hdl owen: about your question for ISBD. The fact is that information from one view to another is not the same.
20:41 hdl For instance ISBD can provide ppl with higly personnalized URLs, so that you can have links on MANY information and display only selected and required information
20:41 owen hdl: Sure, but if a library wants the ISBD view, wouldn't they want it to contain all the information the "normal" view includes? why would they want to switch between the two?
20:41 hdl Normal viw has availability statuses.
20:41 hdl Normal view has availability statuses, which MARC and ISBD has not.
20:42 hdl MARC is quite convenient when cataloguing is concerned.
20:42 owen But that could be easily fixed, if it were preferable to have ISBD as the primary view instead of normal.
20:46 hdl then librarians would be able to have a very flexible and customizable display system.
20:47 hdl Because Normal view will always be a problem. Some will want it amazon way, others abes way, others star trek way.
20:48 martinmorris hello, can someone point me to instructions on how to checkout the version 3.0 beta
20:56 kados martinmorris:[…]lopment:git_usage
20:57 kados hdl: I've committed the xslt example I think
20:57 kados hdl: if you look at the actual stylesheet it's really simple
20:57 kados hdl: could take you about 20 minutes to do a unimarc one I bet
20:58 martinmorris ah marvellous, thanks kados
20:58 fbcit kados: you were looking me earlier?
20:58 kados fbcit: ahh, yea, just wanted to let you know I had chris working on the installer a bit over the weekend
20:59 fbcit great! what's new? I sent up a couple of patches to change the zebradb dir structure to make more sense...
20:59 kados there are a few patches ... but I think we need to take a few of the issues to koha-devel
20:59 fbcit k
20:59 kados ahh, cool, well chris can see how they fit in with what he did too
20:59 kados where to put things seems to be the trickiest part :-)
20:59 kados there don't seem to be any conventions unfortunately
21:00 kados for a full blown web app anyway
21:00 fbcit I simply broke out into markflavour to be consistent...
21:00 kados cool
21:00 fbcit with existing structures in koha...
21:00 kados chris did much the same with marcflavour and language IIRC
21:00 fbcit I was working on adding lang selection to makefile....
21:01 kados chris did that bit already
21:01 fbcit it appears that rfc has changed
21:01 kados rfc?
21:01 kados you mean rfc4646?
21:02 fbcit that's the one... gmcharlt mentioned 3066, but I "discovered" 4646 Friday...
21:02 kados yea, 3066 is obsoleted
21:02 kados by 4646
21:02 fbcit so what's left?
21:02 kados I've actually already written code to handle that
21:02 kados parsing the language code strings that is
21:02 hdl kados : will you answer my questions on buildQuery ?
21:02 kados hdl: which questions?
21:02 kados fbcit: yea, it's a nightmare of a regex, lemme tell ya :-)
21:03 hdl <hdl> kados : is devweek up to date for search code ?
21:03 hdl [17:30:52] <hdl> Do you think I should investiguate And try harder and get it work on rel_3_0 ?
21:03 hdl [17:48:26] atz [] a quitté IRC : Quit: viva la koha
21:03 hdl [17:49:09] <hdl> kados ?
21:03 hdl [17:56:09] <hdl> kados : buildQuery seems to always return undef as first parameter. Why is it that way ?
21:03 kados hdl: I'm working on today, I hope to be finished by this evening
21:04 kados hdl: unfortunately, though dev_week works quite well, so much has been changed in 3.0 I'm going to have to re-factor what we have
21:04 hdl oh. ok.
21:05 kados I should have something for you to test by morning
21:05 hdl ok. send it to me.
21:05 fbcit kados: so what direction should I proceed? with chris?
21:07 kados fbcit: yea, I'd say talk with chris
21:09 kados chris: you around?
21:09 fbcit chris?
21:09 fbcit heh
21:09 fbcit what do they say? Great minds get stuck in the same rut?
21:09 kados hehe
21:10 fbcit isn't chris in NZland?
21:10 kados yup
21:13 fbcit brb
21:26 ryan cgi-bin/koha/reserve/
21:26 ryan anyone ?
21:28 ryan <!--TMPL_IF NAME="issuecount"-->
21:28 ryan    <form action="/cgi-bin/koha/reserve/" method="post">
21:32 ryan hmm.... temporary blindness.  nm
21:32 masonj_ :)
21:44 laura good day
21:44 laura can any one advise if this koha open source offers SIP or NCIP?
21:51 atz SIP
21:51 atz NCIP is in development, afaict
21:51 laura very exciting!
21:52 laura we are a vendor who uses SIP for our library customers and our library customers have asked us to support this
21:52 laura thank you for your answer
21:52 atz ryan or kados would be able to speak more authoritatively
21:54 laura Ok I will stay on for them to confirm
21:54 laura thank you
21:54 ryan laura: feel free to contact me  for details:
21:54 ryan yes, the upcoming release support SIP2
21:56 laura thanks I will email you.  we have several customers that have asked if they can use your service with our service I will email you the details
21:56 ryan great, i'll look for your email
22:02 fbcit chris: ping
22:03 masonj_ fbcit , chris is out, back in about 1.5 - 2 hours
22:08 martinmorris can someone remind me where i get zoom 1.16 from?
22:12 ryan
22:13 ryan martinmorris: do you have problems with 1.20 ?
22:18 masonj .
23:56 fbcit-1 hi chris
02:18 fbcit-1 hi chris
02:19 fbcit-1 -;-)
02:22 chris you were after me before?
02:24 fbcit-1 chris: kados said you worked on the installer this weekend.
02:24 fbcit-1 I was wondering where things stand and what direction I need to go...
02:27 chris right
02:28 chris currently what i have done is get it so it sets up the right zebra files so if you choose unimarc it copies the right file to be record.abs
02:29 fbcit-1 I assume that is based on the value of MARCFLAVOUR?
02:29 chris this is the Makefile.PL
02:29 fbcit-1 right
02:30 chris so yeah it can be an ENV or it can prompt when you run perl Makefile.PL
02:30 fbcit-1 I was referring to an env var.
02:30 chris it'll prompt if there isnt an env var set
02:31 chris same with language (for zebra only en or fr at this stage)
02:31 fbcit-1 how about the language selection?
02:31 fbcit-1 so the installer is done?
02:31 chris and it will copy the right sort-string.chr
02:31 chris not quite ive been moving the opac scripts out of hte same dir as the staff side on install
02:33 chris and im not sure the templates should end up under lib/perl5/koha/templates
02:33 chris thats about it
02:34 fbcit-1 sounds good.
02:40 fbcit-1 tnx chris.
08:07 hdl chris ?
08:07 chris hi hdl
08:07 hdl hi how are you ?
08:08 chris good thanks, kahurangi turned 1 year old today
08:08 chris so he has gone to bed with his new teddy bear :)
08:08 hdl happy birthday kahurangi
08:08 masonj heya hdl
08:09 hdl I was wondering whether joshua could fix search problems.
08:09 hdl hi masonj
08:09 chris ahh i havent seen a patch yet, i think he is still working on them
08:13 chris i have 34 patches that i have checked and sent through
08:14 chris that are waiting for joshua to check
08:14 chris but lots of them are from paul
08:15 chris i expect ill have some from joshua waiting when i wake up
08:15 chris he is concentrating on fixing search
08:16 hdl In fact, I would have liked to test what joshua did in order to improve for us or adapt our defaults configuration files.
08:16 chris right
08:17 chris if i see him, ill ask him to cc you on any patches he sends
08:18 hdl hopefully, i will catch him before you.
08:18 chris yep, 3.20am for him so he will be awake before me :)
08:24 hdl :D

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