IRC log for #koha, 2007-10-19

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
11:28 kyle kados, you around?
12:57 kados kyle: am now
12:57 kados kyle: what's up?
13:05 owen Hi kados
13:05 kados hiya owen
13:07 owen kados, foxnorth: here's the ext toolbar test I put together:
13:08 owen None of the links work, of course, but you get the idea
13:08 owen foxnorth: I was worrying about the fact that the buttons can't function like regular links, for the purpose of open in new tab, or whatever
13:09 foxnorth very nice!
13:09 foxnorth yeah, that is unfortunate!
13:09 owen I don't know if there's a way around that or not. But then I remembered that in our current intranet those are form buttons which can't be right-clicked anyway, so maybe it's a non-issue
13:09 foxnorth maybe not...
13:13 owen foxnorth: I saw this ext forum post: which leads me to believe there isn't a workaround (since it's being suggested as a feature request)
13:14 kados owen: those look very slick
13:15 kados owen: just looking at the page source, it doesn't appear they degrade very well, or is there something I'm missing?
13:16 owen No, they don't degrade at all, without help. I'd have to have ext/jquery overwrite a hard-coded menu
13:16 owen ...which is what I was trying to do with the YUI menu anyway
13:16 kados ahh
13:16 owen One thing I'm not sure of is how picky ext is about changing the style of buttons and menus. For instance, if I play around with margins or padding, is the alignment of the menu dropdown going to get messed up?
13:19 foxnorth that's a good question; i haven't tried playing around w/ the css at all
13:27 hdl owen : I had a js error on your link : zivotdesign
13:27 owen Sorry, I'm working on it just now
13:27 owen Try now
13:28 owen foxnorth: can I not add the same "iconCls:" to the menu items as I can with the toolbar items?
13:28 kados owen: so the css triggers the whole thing?
13:29 owen js
13:29 foxnorth owen: hhmm i'd have to check the docs :)
13:29 kados ahh, ok, I see
13:29 kados ExtMenu.js
13:30 hdl owen : translations may be quite messy if it is not possible to play with margins and so.
13:30 kados ahh, yes, translations
13:30 kados that's something to consider
13:30 kados thanks hdl
13:31 owen Does the translator work on linked js files?
13:31 kados we'll have to test it I suppose
13:31 paul hello world.
13:31 kados hiya paul
13:31 paul owen : what do you call "linked js files" ?
13:31 hdl yes, as far as you have _( ) around the string to translate.
13:32 owen I mean <script src="linked.js"></script>
13:32 kados owen: yea, should
13:32 paul (/me happy to have 2 DSL connexion at home : one for home one for business... the business one is broken since yesterday, but the home one works fine ;-) )
13:32 kados hehe
13:32 kyle kados: I'm almost finished with my Reserves work. Is it safe for me to just commit it to dev_week?
13:33 kados hiya kyle
13:33 kados good question
13:33 hdl owen : maybe you would have to put a dummy gettext function in those files.
13:33 kados kyle: best person to answer that would be ryan actually
13:33 kyle From what I've been told, only npl and ccfls run dev_week. And npl does not use the reserves system.
13:33 kados he's taken on the task of maintaining that version
13:34 owen hdl: Embed the gettext function in the files themselves?
13:34 kyle ok, I'll ask him.
13:34 kados kyle: npl, stow, ccfls, barberton run dev_week
13:34 hdl maybe.
13:34 kyle heh, more than I expected ; )
13:34 kados kyle: he's just walked into the office, he should be at his desk in a few minutes
13:34 owen npl's not getting a dev_week update, though, are we?
13:34 kados (long night last night)
13:34 kados owen: nope
13:37 kados dbs: mornin
13:37 dbs hey kados
13:37 kyle kados: we would like to have an indicator that an item is on reserve from the circ catalog search. I think having the Reserves link say "Reserves (2)" if two people have reserved the item would be nice, but I don't know where to actually put the code.
13:37 kados kyle: right
13:38 kados kyle: I'll show you, just a sec
13:40 kados kyle: you'll want to add it to the items_loop ref to hashrefs
13:41 kyle can you point me to a particular file and line number?
13:41 kados sure
13:41 kados
13:41 kados 3521
13:41 kados hehe
13:42 kados kyle: so you'll have to check if there's a lightweight enough function to pull out the count for you
13:43 kados if all you need is the count, might make sense to just do a SQL one-liner
13:43 kyle thanks.
13:43 kyle Yeah, most of my work on Reserves2 are just additional subs and a few modificatinos to existing ones.
13:44 kados sweet
13:44 kyle I'll post a screenshot in a minute.
13:45 kyle if I ever get Krita installed an downloaded ; \ Switched to Kubuntu Gutsy yesterday.
13:45 kados actually, you'll want to do it like onloancount is done
13:45 kados $onloan_count
13:45 kados starting with 3524
13:46 kyle ok
13:56 kados owen: so are you settled on the ext menu?
13:57 owen I don't know. I still need to see how flexible it is to style. But the code seems a lot more straightforward to me. I also need to check out much the ext libraries weigh when configured correctly for what we need
14:03 kados *nod*
14:03 kados makes sense
14:24 kyle New reserves snapshot:[…]es-system-update/
14:24 kyle let me know what you think
14:24 kyle I still need to port it to the npl templates, but that will only take a few minutes.
14:31 owen kyle that looks really great
14:31 owen I love the "lock" idea
14:31 owen We gotta get this stuff for 3.0!
14:31 kyle thanks.
14:32 kados owen: looks swank
14:32 kyle Once I get the all clear to integrate it into dev_week, we can look at 3.0 integration.
14:32 kados kyle++
14:33 owen By the way, kados, be sure to check out the generated source of that ext toolbar example. That's one of the other downsides of ext.
14:33 kyle any idea when ryan might show up here?
14:33 kados he's prolly around now
14:35 ryan hi kyle
14:36 ryan looks nice
14:37 kyle Do you know if any of the libraries using dev_week are using the current reserves system?
14:37 ryan kyle: yep
14:37 ryan not sure if the item-level reserves stuff was committed.
14:38 kyle Can you get clearance for me to commit my updates? I really don't know how this should work.
14:40 ryan kyle: yes, everyone else has drifted from stock cvs
14:40 ryan so np to commit
14:40 ryan do you change the api ?
14:40 ryan or tables ?
14:41 kyle There are some new columns in the reserves table, and some new private and public subs.
14:43 ryan cool - you'll add to updatedatebase ?
14:43 kyle I'll give my code a good twice-over, clean up the docs, and commit it.
14:43 kyle Yes, I'll add those new columns to updatedatabase.
14:44 ryan great ... those are some nice features
14:44 kyle question: does the current reserves system automatically e-mail people who have entered e-mail addresses? I couldn't find anything referencing it in
14:45 kados kyle: no, I don't think that's ever made it into the general release
14:45 kados kyle: but I can send you a patch that does that
14:46 kados it's not really that impressive, it's a couple of lines in perl IIRC
14:46 kyle Ok, I figured I'd do that. Jo from HLT also want's to be able to text message cell phones with reserve messages. That wouldn't be a problem if I could find a public API for texting. I think Yahoo might have one.
14:46 kados tumer's already done that
14:47 kyle I think I should add a prefs for borrowers so they can choose which ways to be contacted about various items.
14:47 kados that code is in rel-TG
14:47 kados kyle: yea, absolutely
14:47 kyle That's cool. I'll check that out.
14:47 kados kyle: I'd love to distinguish between global preferences, library preferences and user preferences
14:48 kados pretty trivial enhancement, it's just the 'death by a thousand papercuts' thing :-)
14:48 kyle You mean, have a default global for each, which is superceded by a default library pref, which is superceded by a user's prefs?
14:48 kados kyle: exactly
14:48 kyle Yeah, I know what you mean.
14:49 kyle Maybe we should write
14:49 kyle Have a standard interface for working with prefs.
14:50 kados yea, well I'm pretty happy with C4::Context->preference for the global ones
14:50 kados but we could look at splitting that stuff out into a separate module I suppose
14:50 kyle seems to work well.
14:50 kados the new session handling in 3.0 is another option I think
14:51 kados the userenv can be arbitrarily expanded
14:51 kados not based on tables like in 2.2
14:51 kyle A good pref manager for php is
14:51 kyle Actually, is the stable version.
14:52 kados the cool thing about using sessions is you can hot-copy the session data into a user's account, and easily copy it back to their session, merge it with other sessions, etc.
14:52 kados CGI::Session++
14:52 kyle Something like it for perl would be great.
14:52 kyle agreed.
15:54 fbcit Are there plans to expand Koha to include the ability to track library fines?
15:55 kados fbcit: ?
15:55 kados fbcit: it's done that since version 1.0 8 years ago :=)
15:56 fbcit kados: sorry. I typed before I looked.... :-(
15:58 kados :)
15:58 fbcit kados: We are looking to integrate a library management system with an accounting package so that fines are charged to student accounts.
15:58 kados fbcit: which accounting package?
15:59 fbcit kados: We are looking at LedgerSMB with some mods for non-profit.
16:00 hdl kados ? did you receive my email ?
16:00 fbcit kados: I'm not clear from the website or docs.... does Koha support PostgreSQL?
16:01 kados fbcit: to use postgres you'd have to tweak some queries
16:01 kados fbcit: we do use DBI, which has a driver for postgres
16:01 kados but there are a few mysql specific queries still that would need to be adjusted
16:01 kados fbcit: we humbly await your patch :-)
16:02 fbcit kados: Ahh... I see it is in Perl...
16:02 kados yup
16:03 kados hdl: yes, I did
16:03 kados hdl: sorry, haven't responded yet
16:03 kados I'll look closely now
16:03 fbcit kados: any estimate on the size of job doing the query convert would be?
16:04 fbcit I've not looked at the code yet....
16:04 kados I dunno, maybe a few days
16:04 hdl kados: it is just that if you want to ask some questions, we could now.
16:04 kados for someone who knows the differences
16:05 kados hdl: sure
16:05 fbcit we just finished moving several apps from MSSQL to PostgreSQL... What could be more different than tsql and every other sql? :-)
16:05 kados hdl: I'm wondering if we should just leave the issue of truncation to Zebra at the back end
16:05 kados hdl: it handles right and left truncation natively
16:06 kados fbcit: :-)
16:06 kados fbcit: if you've done that already, it will likely be a cinch for your team
16:06 kados fbcit: you'll want to nab the 3.0 version though
16:06 kados fbcit: and get familiar with Git
16:07 kados fbcit:[…]lopment:git_usage
16:07 fbcit kados: Ok. And I'm not familiar with Zebra though saw references to it on the website.
16:07 kados yep, there is a zebra option and a no-zebra option
16:08 kados fbcit: the no-zebra option is easy :-)
16:08 fbcit the query times with zebra were impressive...
16:08 fbcit what is it? (besides brother to a horse...)
16:09 kados zebra is an indexing engine
16:09 kados and yes, it's extremely fast
16:15 fbcit kados:tnx. I'll have a look at the code over the next week.
16:28 kados hdl: got a sec?
16:28 kados hdl: we are hoping you can explain the practice of call numbers among your libraries
16:28 kados hdl: which fields in the koha tables do they use for storage of call numbers at the biblioitem level?
16:28 kados if any
16:31 kados hdl: ?
16:36 tnb paul: ?
16:36 tnb hdl: ?
16:36 tnb atz: hi joe!
16:37 atz greets
16:37 paul kados : they use dewey, or nothing (and only itemcallnumber)
16:37 paul tnd : yes ?
16:37 paul all : git-send-semail is no more in git ???
16:38 atz for real?
16:38 paul time to leave for frenchies...
16:38 kados git-send-email ?
16:38 paul atz : yes
16:38 kados yowser
16:38 paul unless i'm really really really tired...
16:38 kados :-)
16:38 atz so what great new feature makes it worthwhile to upgrade to then?
16:39 kados I wonder if there's a new way to send email patches
16:40 paul time to leave. I'll look later if someone has an explanation...
16:40 kados 09:39 < kados> did git-send-email get removed from and is there an alternative utility?
16:40 kados 09:40 -!- arwed is now known as alley_cat
16:40 kados 09:40 < aroben> kados: it did not get removed
16:40 kados paul_away: so looks like it's not removed :-)
16:40 kados 09:40 < kados> ahh, cool, thanks
16:40 kados paul_away: you must be tired :-)
17:10 tnb paul: when you have time, will you please send me a list of all the libraries you support in France? If we don't add those libraries as "koha users" to some of the US researcher websites, the Koha project is goign to continue to be under-represented. I'm happy to add them, but the users wiki is pretty out of date at this point
17:11 kados tnb: I think paul has gone for the day
17:11 kados tnb: best time to catch him is in the morning on EST
17:11 tnb ok, good to know
17:12 tnb do i remember correctly that an African library recently went live?
17:12 kados sounds familiar
17:12 kados can't rememeber which one thoug
17:12 kados maybe look on the koha lists
17:12 tnb yeah, i can't find it now :/
17:15 Frederic hello
17:23 kados hiya Frederic
17:26 tnb frederic: hi (This is Tina with LibLime). I see you didn't yet make it on the pay for support page on I actually don't have access right now to directly edit the website, but if you send your company info to, russel should be able to add you
17:27 tnb seeing you name just reminded me!
17:27 tnb your name
17:27 tnb :)
17:27 tnb Frederic: also, if you have any clients you'd like included in the 'koha users' lists, please let me know
17:28 tnb we have several US researchers who track who is using Koha, so it benefits the project if I add any new libraries using Koha to those databases
17:31 Frederic Hi Tina, I send a text to you June 16th... I will resend it. Thx. Feel free to accomate my idiom to English :)
17:32 tnb ok, thanks Frederic! I'll forward your test to Russel so he can add it to the site
17:34 Frederic hiya (?) Kados,
17:34 Frederic Are you integrating YUI to Koha as JS and UI framework, or are you just picking up some pieces, mixing with other libraries (jQuery...)?
17:34 kados hi
17:34 kados Frederic: just pieces
17:34 kados ajax and ui pieces
17:35 Frederic Tnb: email sent...
17:37 tnb great!
17:37 Frederic YUI is a very powerfull framework, as you know.
17:37 Frederic I don't understand why jquery is used.
17:51 tnb atz: did you receive my email about the bio?
17:51 atz yes
17:51 atz sounds like a good idea
17:51 tnb ok, great. I just wanted to make sure it did not get lost in cyber space!
17:52 tnb I'm gunning for early next week for that announcement, so the sooner you can get something to me the happier I'll be :)
17:54 atz ok, i've got some already written... up to about 4th grade when my pet turtle died.
17:54 atz j/k
17:55 tnb ha!
18:05 hdl kados : back
18:09 hdl tnb :
18:10 tnb hdl: hi
18:10 tnb :)
18:11 tnb could you send me a list of the french libraries you and paul are supporting? There is a widely-used US research database that we'd like to include them in
18:11 tnb It's important for the project for all Koha libraries to be represented in it
18:12 hdl I saw the figures rported on NGC4LIB.
18:12 tnb yep, that researcher was using a specific method for counting
18:12 tnb that's why we need to make sure Koha libraries get counted
18:12 hdl
18:13 tnb i see there are only 6 french libraries currently in the database that is used for this research
18:13 hdl In This programme you will find some libraries using Koha in Africa.
18:13 hdl Kinshasa University is using Koha.
18:14 tnb ah, great!
18:14 tnb those aren't in the wiki  (i don't think they are)
18:15 tnb hdl: i don't see that university listed... it is on this url?
18:15 hdl Yes look For Kabeya
18:15 tnb oh, it is in the pdf, probably
18:15 hdl Yes.
18:16 hdl Botwsana and malawi too, iirc.
18:16 tnb and your libraries are listed here as well? (I am opening the pdf now)
18:16 hdl Nope.
18:16 hdl This was a conference in Dakar, where Koha was much represented.
18:17 hdl was there too. Bess sadler took part.
18:17 tnb that's very exciting.
18:18 tnb Would you prefer to add french libraries to the database yourself?
18:18 hdl
18:18 tnb I only offered because it is time-consuming and I was trying to be helpful :)
18:19 hdl Sidarec implemented a Koha in an african country.
18:19 hdl Can't find the name.
18:19 hdl (remember.)
18:19 tnb yes, i knew about sidarec, but I'm not sure if i've added them yet.
18:19 tnb thanks for the reminder
18:20 hdl tnb: I think you'll have to wait for Paul to get a full list of Koha users.
18:20 tnb ok, I will send him an email
18:20 hdl I would certainly forget some.
18:20 tnb thanks for the link to the program! i did not know about those!
19:43 fbcit kados: r u around?
19:43 hdl kados : patch sent to manage truncation
19:44 hdl It is only on non stemmed and non ranked search
19:44 kados hdl: ok, did you see the link I sent you for the parser?
19:44 hdl But it works.
19:44 hdl yes.
19:44 hdl thanks.
19:45 hdl But i couldnot have time enough to get deep into this.
19:45 kados *nod*
19:45 hdl I should have read the doc of the parser and install it.
19:45 hdl Before beeing able to do anything.
19:46 hdl Now going to sleep
19:46 kados cool, I'll have a look
19:46 kados thanks hdl
19:46 hdl I hope you won't have any problems with it.
19:51 hdl kados : what does r=r stand for in ?
19:52 kados is'nt it documented?
19:52 hdl we have problem when searching publication dates.
19:52 hdl I searched for that and couldnot see.
19:52 kados it's for date fields maybe
19:53 kados check bib1.att
19:53 hdl Yeah, should be but cannot find where you took it from
19:53 kados r = relation maybe?
19:54 kados # Date
19:54 kados # Used if structure=date (@attr 4=5)
19:54 kados index d
19:54 kados completeness 0
19:54 kados charmap @
19:54 kados default.idx
20:00 hdl cannot simulate query for yaz-client.
20:00 hdl It is frustrating not to be able to debug query on Publication date.
20:00 kados with or without zebra?
20:01 hdl with zebra.
20:01 kados it's indexed as a date field?
20:01 hdl as a year field
20:02 kados it won't work
20:02 kados it expects nnnn
20:02 ryan should run a regexp before indexing ?
20:02 ryan or store a pubyear in 942 ?
20:02 hdl UNIMARC
20:03 ryan hdl : does unimarc have a pub year field ?
20:03 thd hdl: all text subfield dates in MARC need normalising
20:04 hdl yes, but catalogers ususally add some texts before and after.
20:04 ryan well, sort by pub year needs to work...
20:05 ryan so do we add an extra field?  or index the regexp'ed field rather than the actual text (in 260$c, eg)
20:05 thd hdl: just be thankful that UNIMARC actually provides a separate subfield for publication and copyright dates unlike MARC 21 in which it is not always possible to determine which is which
20:06 hdl :P
20:06 hdl I think that we should rather index regexp'ed field.
20:07 hdl This could be the solution.
20:07 thd ryan: can you index the regular expression result without actually storing the regular expression?
20:07 hdl kados : Does your search and sorting on dates works on dev_week ?
20:09 hdl thd : with zebra, yes. but then, we would need to make a zebra specific record before indexing.
20:09 thd ryan: can you index the regular expression result in Zebra without actually storing the regular expression result in the record?
20:09 ryan thd: i do not know ...
20:09 thd I asked improperly.  Ignore the first form of the question.
20:10 hdl Since you index after the record is stored in database, you could process it before indexing.
20:10 kados hdl: yes
20:10 kados hdl: http://search.athenscounty.lib[…]rt_by=1%3D32+%3Ei
20:10 masonj morning koha
20:10 kados search for harry potter published between 2005-2007 and sort by acquisition date
20:12 kados hdl: r=r might be for ranking
20:12 kados no, nevermind
20:12 kados it's not
20:13 hdl are you using dates in 008 or in an other specific field ?
20:13 kados dates are several places
20:13 hdl Some dates are not showing up in the list you pointed me.
20:13 kados check the record.abs and search for 'Date'
20:14 hdl + I did quite the same on ccfls some time ago and order was quite messy.
20:14 hdl (cannot remember the query I did)
20:14 kados date is very problematic in marc
20:14 kados esp marc21
20:15 kados there is no machine-readable place that it's stored except 008
20:15 hdl Are you processing date fields before storing them ?
20:15 kados no
20:15 kados but if I do it over I might
20:16 ryan no, record.abs says it's only using 008.
20:16 hdl Is dev_week branch up to date for all you did ?
20:16 kados yep
20:17 kados I think so anyway
20:18 hdl Ok. Now going to bed.
21:00 fbcit kados:in the table 'labels_templates' is the collation of the tmpl_code, tmpl_desc, and units columns different from the rest of the table or could the collation be set the same for the entire table?
21:07 kados fbcit: honestly I'm not sure, but masonj or ryan should know
21:08 fbcit postgresql does not do collation at the column level.
21:09 kados IMO using consistant collation should be the goal
21:09 kados are you seeing something else in the kohastructure.sql?
21:09 masonj hiya fbcit , can u explain a bit more? :)
21:09 kados looks like both are set to utf8 fbcit
21:09 kados fbcit: are you seeing other behavior?
21:10 fbcit masonj: I'm most of the way through converting kohastructure.sql to postgresql
21:10 masonj ah, all columns should be the same, utf*
21:11 masonj oops, utf8
21:11 kados fbcit: cool!
21:11 fbcit masonj: just to be sure: I can disregard the column collate settings and make the entire db utf8?
21:12 kados fbcit: well, there are a lot of mysqlisms in the installer/data dirs I'm afraid
21:12 kados we do things like INSERT INTO BRANCH (a,b,c) VALUES (x,y,z),(x,y,z)
21:13 fbcit kados: that's ok. As long as I can drop in here and get some help when I get stuck on the mysql, I'll keep plowing.
21:13 kados because in mysql that's much much faster thatn separate statemnts
21:13 kados (also easy to fix with a regex :-)
21:13 fbcit sed all the way :-)
21:13 kados hehe
21:13 kados sed++
21:13 kados fbcit: so did you read over the basics of Git?
21:14 kados because we'd love to get your patch when you're done
21:14 kados :-)
21:14 masonj im not too sure on the other tables, but the labels* tables can all be utf8
21:14 kados all the tables should be utf8
21:14 masonj sounds good
21:15 fbcit kados: yum install git....
21:15 kados there's another git out there :/
21:16 fbcit I'm used to svn, but git seems straight forward enough...
21:16 kados I'm not sure about the red hat, but in debian you want git-core
21:16 fbcit the one I git seems to work ok...
21:16 fbcit ;-)
21:16 kados git is completely different in that it's a distributed vcs
21:16 kados so you have a local copy of the entire repo when you clone
21:17 fbcit Everything worked following the ex on the page you pointed me to.
21:17 kados sweet
21:21 fbcit off for the night...
21:21 kados laters
21:21 masonj cya,
21:22 masonj great move with the postgres too, fbcit :)
23:54 [K] *** part FreeNode!#koha: rangi
00:33 [K] *** join #koha@FreeNode: rangi
04:54 ATA hi all
04:55 chris hi ata
04:55 ATA How do you do chris?
04:55 ATA Would you mind telling me about the release of koha 3.0?
04:56 chris what about it?
04:56 chris :)
04:56 ATA hmmm
04:56 ATA I mean when it is going to release?
04:56 chris ahh when we get the last of the bugs fixed
04:56 ATA I am windows user of koha
04:56 chris there really isnt a set time, but it shouldnt be far away we are working hard on closing all the bugs at the moment
04:57 ATA Ok
04:57 atz liblime is hiring 4 new people.  including me.
04:57 atz :)
04:57 chris not sure when it will be ported to windows
04:57 ATA One more question, when koha 2.29 is going to be released for windows?
04:57 chris that i dont know
04:57 ATA :) @ atz
04:57 chris the windows port is done by rob weir
04:58 chris koha for windows is sorta unofficial :-)
04:58 ATA I asked him a couple of time but no response, i think he is really a buzy man
04:58 atz is it a cygwin version?
04:59 chris no its a fullblown apache for windows, mysql for windows, active state perl etc
04:59 chris rob does a pretty neat click click its installed thing
04:59 atz nice
04:59 atz i'd recommend just doing VMware w/ linux image on win32
05:00 ATA vmware image is good but how to enter its gui mode?
05:00 chris that i dont know
05:00 chris either :)
05:00 ATA You know windows users always look for gui
05:00 atz remote desktop
05:00 atz :)
05:01 ATA lol
05:01 ATA Ok friends thanks
05:02 ATA Thank you chris and atz
05:02 ATA BYE
05:02 atz ttyl
05:02 chris cya later

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