IRC log for #koha, 2007-10-09

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
12:32 kados morning #koha
12:38 paul kados : about your cn proposal.
12:38 kados hi
12:38 paul (beep hdl)
12:38 hdl yes
12:38 paul hdl pointed that in france, libraries often have :
12:39 paul - NNN ABC (NNN=dewey ABC=aiuthor) for docs
12:39 paul and letters for fictions
12:39 paul in this scheme, how will we fill lcsort ?
12:39 kados yes, we have the same problem in US public libraries
12:39 paul (it's the scheme most public libraries use)
12:40 kados for sorting, it's impossible to avoid problems
12:40 kados the user must understand that fiction is ABC and non-fiction is 123
12:40 kados in fact, I had this problem for NPL
12:41 kados
12:41 kados Check the Call Number 'Sort By ' option
12:41 hdl problem is really HARD for inventory/stocktaking.
12:41 kados do you have any idea for a solution?
12:46 kados gys?
12:46 kados guys?
12:47 paul not from me. hdl, an idea ? (i'm not sure it's solvable. I at least wanted to be sure you were aware of the problem
12:47 paul )
12:48 hdl I have one. But it is not really satisfying.
12:48 hdl a) having more than one subfield for Call Number
12:49 hdl so that ppl would enter a call number for figures in one subfield, callnumber alpha in another.
12:50 paul we can't say to do that to our librarians i'm afraid  !
12:50 hdl If we cannot tell them,
12:50 hdl then it is up to US to make distinction.
12:50 hdl i.e. : when adding a biblio,
12:51 hdl split cn into :
12:51 hdl classification / callnumber
12:51 hdl (on a callnumber delimiter systempref)
12:52 hdl Then see whether it is figures or alphabetical.
12:52 hdl And class it the right way.
12:52 hdl Many of our clients are requesting a solution for stocktaking.
12:59 kados yea, it's a tough prob
13:02 hdl I do agree.
13:03 kados OK, great
13:03 hdl But it seems we would require at least 2 indexes on callnumber.
13:05 kados yea, and that can be messy IMO
13:05 kados so do you guys have a plan for bug fixing 3.0? :-)
13:05 paul for this specific problem ?
13:06 paul not really
13:06 kados no, just in general
13:06 paul I work almost full time on bugfixing.
13:06 kados excellent
13:06 paul for at least the 2 or 3 coming weeks
13:07 kados great news!
13:07 paul most of our impatient clients have accepted to delay 3.0 setup for some more time. only 1 remaining that need something for oct, 24
13:07 paul hdl take care of it.
13:07 paul the french translation of the new templates are done.
13:08 kados cool
13:10 paul kados : I have only a we bugs affected atm. does every liblime assignee take care of their ?
13:10 paul (only 37 for me, 224 overall)
13:11 kados I've asked chris and ryan to focus on blockers this week
13:11 paul I may be able to fix some bugs that are not mine, but how to be sure a liblimer isn't working on it ?
13:11 kados they will announce each one they plan to fix before fixing it
13:11 paul what about setting statut=ASSI on bugs taken
13:11 paul in the bug notes ?
13:11 kados yep, and they will update the assigned status to themselves
13:12 paul ok, thx
13:12 kados if you want to work on a bug, just change yourself to the assignee and say 'I'm working on it'
13:12 paul for sure. I already did id some times. (& just reaffect to you a bug you've written "partial fix commited, will continue soon"
13:14 kados ok, thanks
13:17 paul kados : about Z3950NormalizeAuthor =
13:18 paul in UNIMARC, an author can be in 200$f and in 700 (as an authority)
13:18 paul usually, and it's supposed to be that, the 200$f should always be filled.
13:18 paul but on some catalogues, it can be empty if the 700 is filled with the authority.
13:19 paul as we have author ordering on 200$f, those records are uncorrectly sorted as '' (1st position)
13:19 paul the Z3950NormalizeAuthor fills the 200$f with the 700 if 200$f is empty & the library want it to be auto filled
13:19 paul hope that sounds more clear.
13:20 paul not sure it can be useful for a marc21 library...
13:20 kados yep, doesn't sound like it's a marc21 feature
13:20 kados thanks for the explanation
13:20 paul (otherwise, MARCfindbreeding patch almost done)
13:20 paul[…]w_bug.cgi?id=1473
13:21 kados paul++
13:22 kados (just summarlize your comments :-))
13:32 paul kados : any opinion about ireport ?
14:10 kados huh, interesting
14:10 kados it's Java
14:10 kados :(
14:10 kados means it's going to be hard to troubleshoot later
14:10 paul same reaction : :(
14:10 paul yep
14:11 kados plus, we already hav a new stats module that's coming along nicely
14:11 paul do you know a good reporting tool that don't require java ?
14:11 paul another idea then ?
14:11 paul (the subject is not yet defined )
14:11 kados we have built our own
14:11 kados it's a very difficult process!
14:12 kados we should be done with testing this week
14:12 paul I know. In my previous position, we had investigated to find something
14:12 kados and I can show you something perhaps next week
14:13 kados we have a three-phase process, and we're on phase 1
14:16 hdl paul, kados, maybe talend could provide some bricks for that ?
14:19 kados talend?
14:20 kados ahh, neat
14:20 paul kados : talend is pierrick company ;-)
14:22 kados ahh, cool
14:22 kados pierrick++
14:22 kados he owns the company, or just works there?
14:22 paul just works here
14:22 kados ahh, ok :-)
14:22 kados otherwise, I'd be very impressed :-)
14:22 kados (still impressed) :-)
14:40 slef hi all.  I've ala written on my schedule for now but I can't remember why... are the ALA doing anything interesting online now? ;-)
14:47 kados ALA = American Library Association?
14:58 hdl new Authorities Editor based on MARCeditor on the way.
15:10 kados hdl++
15:10 kados hdl: I noticed something else, maybe you can explain
15:10 kados it's in the frameworks editor for authorities
15:10 hdl yes ?
15:11 kados it has the visibility flags separated out into three areas, editor, opac and staff
15:11 kados did you do that?
15:11 kados it's very nice
15:11 kados it woudl be a nice addition to the biblio frameworks
15:12 hdl I would like to say yes. But unfortunately, it is tumer's code.
15:12 hdl I did not test if it worked as expected.
15:14 kados ahh, ok
15:14 hdl But I think provided we have a char, we can map to existing behaviour
15:20 kados *nod*
15:20 kados it's nice window dressing, to add after we have fixed blockers :)
15:35 [K] *** join #koha@FreeNode: eloise212
15:35 [K] *** part FreeNode!#koha: eloise212
16:13 paul kados around ?
16:15 kados paul: yep
16:15 paul i have a marc21 default setup.
16:15 paul i have checked all checkboxes, so I have many datas.
16:16 paul seems I have a lot of patrons, with personnal datas.
16:16 paul are the personal datas "false" ?
16:16 paul otherwise, i think it's a major problem (at least if I was a patron & discovered my address & phone... are installed with Koha, i would be very very unhappy !)
16:18 kados yes, it's all false info
16:18 kados completely random
16:19 ryan made from a list of most popular names in US.
17:00 paul bye bye world. see you tomorrow
17:01 kados later paul
17:01 paul_away (8 patches from hdl to test, i'll do it in the morning. 8 patches sent)
17:02 kados great
17:02 kados we'll get those pushed through tonight
20:12 hdl kados :
20:12 hdl are you around ?
20:16 chris i think he is on a flight at the moment hdl
20:16 hdl chris : I wanted to have a brainstorming with him about bulkedit.
20:16 hdl Do you know something about this feature ?
20:26 hdl chris ?
20:26 chris hmm nope, what is it for? bulkediting marc records?
20:27 hdl yes.
20:27 chris sounds like a good feature
20:27 hdl I did it on Result page.
20:27 hdl But Joshua asked to do it preferably in tools.
20:28 hdl My problem is that I see 4 different uses for this tool :
20:28 hdl basket
20:28 hdl virtualshelves
20:28 hdl result of a ccl query
20:29 chris right
20:29 hdl direct search.
20:29 hdl (pqf query)
20:29 chris does he want the bulkedit script to live in tools? or the whole thing?
20:30 chris i guess we need to ask him that
20:30 hdl This is my question.
20:30 hdl The whole thing would require to duplicate search and results.
20:31 chris yes, that wouldnt be good, because it will get out of synx
20:31 hdl anyway, librarians should have a way to create a basket in intranet.
20:31 chris sync
20:31 chris yep
20:31 chris i agree
20:31 hdl This is what I think too.
20:32 hdl Would you tell him if you happen to get in touch with him tonight ?
20:33 chris sure will
20:33 hdl (he marked this as blocker :S )
20:35 hdl good nite.
20:35 chris good night, sleep well
20:35 hdl_away will try
20:44 kados bulkedit should be in tools, it shouldn't be available after every search
20:44 kados esp since the html it generates is HUGE
20:44 kados but it's a nice feature
20:45 chris ok
20:45 chris but could it work
20:45 chris by you going by tools
20:45 chris and the link there is a link to the search page, with a variable passed in, bulkedit=1
20:46 chris so you do a search, and it passes bulkedit=1 to the results too
20:46 chris and then you get the bulkedit
20:46 kados yea, that'd work
20:46 chris cool
20:46 kados that would be cnfusing thoug
20:46 kados though
20:47 chris well you could do things in the template
20:47 kados it's not clear to the librarian that you're in 'bulk edit' mode
20:47 chris if bulkedit
20:47 kados if we could maek that explicit it'd be fine
20:47 chris <h1>Bulk Editing</h1>
20:47 kados yea
20:47 chris thats how catalogue maintenance worked
20:47 kados cool
20:48 chris that way we dont have to rewrite the search
20:48 kados yea, makes sens
20:57 chris theres a big one that i couldnt apply, of french templates, i think maybe the locales on merry are wrong or something .. somthing to with utf8 anyway
20:57 chris so im getting paul to send it to my liblime address, see if zimbra and the mac handle it better
21:00 kados strange
21:00 chris i got it with the french systempreferences
21:00 chris corrupt patch
21:01 chris and if you look at it, its got manky characters
21:01 chris instead of the proper accents etc
21:01 chris so at some point its getting converted to ascii/iso-9960 (or whatever)
21:01 chris which is busting it up
21:02 kados you check your mutt setings?
21:02 kados it could also be postfix I guess
21:02 chris yeah
21:02 chris so if it comes thru to my liblime mailbox ok
21:02 chris then that narrows it down to something on merry
21:03 chris if it still comes thru munched
21:03 kados *nod*
21:03 chris then its something else
06:48 paul hello world.
06:48 paul chris around ?
08:17 chris hi paul
08:17 chris i am now
08:17 paul hello chris.
08:17 paul 2 questions :
08:17 paul - do you know why kados reverted my #1485 patch ?
08:18 chris ahh he sent you a mail i think
08:18 paul he sended me a mail, to say he had problems with it
08:18 chris i think it didnt fix the problem
08:19 paul I will speak of this with kados later then. I haven't updated my copy atm.
08:19 paul but if I do i'll revert my patch
08:19 paul how can I un-revert it again ?
08:19 paul (to test & complete it if needed)
08:19 chris ahh you can revert the revert :)
08:20 chris its commit 464b0e25e798a87b2b124e840c8eeebb46ade7eb
08:20 chris so you can revert 464b0e25e798a87b2b124e840c8eeebb46ade7eb
08:20 chris and that will revert it
08:21 chris or
08:21 paul right ! then kados will revert the revert of the revert of the patch.
08:21 chris hehe
08:21 chris yep
08:21 paul sounds nice ;-)
08:21 paul my 2nd question then:
08:21 chris or you can apply the patch
08:21 chris that you sent to joshua, and that will make the changes
08:21 chris so 2 ways to do it
08:22 paul in the default english loaded datas, there are some branches defined.
08:22 paul with some branchcategories :
08:22 chris hmm
08:22 paul INSERT INTO branchcategories ( `categorycode`,`categoryname`,`codedescription`) VALUES
08:22 paul -- Org Unit-style categories
08:22 paul ('CON', 'Consortium', 'Consortium library category for scoped searching'),
08:22 paul INSERT INTO branchrelations ( `branchcode`,`categorycode`) VALUES
08:22 paul ('ML','BRA'), -- branch-level library
08:22 paul ('MAIN','PE'), -- for acqui
08:23 paul ('SPL','SYS'), -- system-level library
08:23 paul does branchcategories really work ?
08:23 paul what does it do ?
08:23 chris getbranches()
08:23 chris can take a categorycode as an argument
08:24 chris so at HLT
08:24 chris the have some branches which are categorycode IS (of issuing)
08:24 chris and some which arent
08:24 chris in the it only gets branches which are of category IS
08:25 chris so people can only choose to pick up a reserve from a branch that can issue
08:26 chris so they might also have a branch they call Mending (where a book goes when its damaged to be fixed)
08:26 paul wow ! I never saw that feature !
08:26 paul mmm...
08:26 paul says :
08:26 paul my $branches = GetBranches();
08:26 paul need some fixes it seems ;-)
08:27 chris yeah, at hlt it says my $branches = GetBranches('IS');
08:27 chris yeah, it needs to be documented and fixed, i think joshua was documenting it
08:27 paul ok, thanks.
08:29 paul wow... an analysis of F <> NZ match...
08:29 chris hehe
08:29 paul france won 197 to 47
08:29 paul ...
08:29 paul for "plaquages" !
08:29 chris ?
08:29 paul (don't know the word in english)
08:29 paul when you make a guy falling
08:29 chris hmmm i wonder if google can tell us
08:29 chris tackle
08:29 paul yep
08:30 chris yeah, france won because they defending so well
08:30 paul 30% vs 70% of ball owning
08:30 chris yeah
08:30 chris nz has no one to blame except themselves, they had much more ball, but made to many mistakes
08:33 chris but now you must beat england .. or slef will laugh at both of us :-)
08:33 paul for sure !
09:01 chris[…]hp?g2_itemId=9824
09:01 chris kahurangi with food stuck on his nose :)
10:04 kados paul: you around?
10:04 paul hi kados
10:04 paul yep
10:04 kados paul: did you see my note about the one patch?
10:04 paul (although going to lunch in a few minuts)
10:04 paul yep
10:04 paul & i need more info...
10:04 paul you wrote :
10:05 paul I tried applying this patch, then re-installing Koha and testing the
10:05 paul fines saving.
10:05 kados right
10:05 paul but my patch was about *issuing* rules, not fines
10:05 kados hmmm
10:05 kados I thought the bug was about *finds* rules
10:06 paul + the itemtype default are useless because they mean nothing functionnaly.
10:06 kados really?
10:06 kados they have meaning for my libraries
10:06 paul mmm... I may have miswritten the note.
10:07 paul the feature "an adult can issue 3 books, 2 videos, but no more than 4 things" is ok, for sure
10:07 paul but the feature " an adult can issue 3 books, a children can issue 2 books, a staff member can issue 5 books, but nobody can issue more than 5 books means nothing"
10:07 kados paul:[…]w_bug.cgi?id=1485 (it's a bug report about fines rules)
10:08 kados hmmm
10:08 kados that's not what 'default' means in the US context
10:08 kados in the US, it means 'if you don't specific a value by borrower type, here is the default'
10:09 kados so it means 'by default, everyone can issue 5 books'
10:09 kados then, maybe you will specify that 'children' can only issue 3 books
10:09 kados but adults, staff, etc., may just be in the default
10:10 kados does that make sense?
10:10 paul i'm afraid no
10:10 paul ah, ok
10:10 paul got it.
10:10 paul but it's not the way it's handled by koha.
10:11 paul it does not mean "default", it means "any case"
10:11 paul think the itemtype rule :
10:11 paul 3 books, 5 videos, 5 total maximum
10:11 paul when you issue something, every rule is checked
10:12 kados most applications provide for rules that transition from 'general rule' to 'specific rule'
10:12 kados that's what users expect
10:12 kados and that's how Koha 2.2 works
10:12 kados I'm not sure if that's changed in 3.0
10:12 paul ??? no !
10:12 paul that not how it works in 2.2
10:13 kados hmmm
10:13 kados so if you fill out the default values they will override all other values?
10:13 paul that's one of the reason why we had some/many questions.
10:13 paul nope.
10:13 paul all values are checked.
10:13 paul if a cell is empty, it is considered as 0,0
10:14 paul (0 = no issuing possible)
10:14 paul a lot of users thought that the most right line was for "consider this if I don't fill a cell", but it was not the way it worked.
10:14 paul (and it is still not)
10:14 paul we could reintroduce that feature in this way
10:15 paul but that would be confusing with itemtype wildcard
10:15 paul (3 books, 5 dvd, 5 total)
10:15 paul which is totally different.
10:15 kados what's total?
10:15 paul "any document"
10:15 paul don't you have such rules in US ?
10:15 paul in Marseille, PL, the rules are :
10:15 paul - up to 10 books
10:16 kados so '*' means 'any document' ?
10:16 paul - up to 1 DVD
10:16 paul - up to 1 fiction DVD
10:16 paul - up to 10 documents averall
10:16 paul yep, * = any doc
10:16 kados wow, that's not what people think at all!
10:16 kados this needs to be discussed on koha-devel
10:16 paul and the previous * on the left means * = any patron category, which is silly
10:17 paul s/left/right
10:17 kados it's not silly at all
10:17 paul if we consider it as fdefault, right
10:17 kados most US libraries assume it is a default that can be overridden by a more specific case
10:17 paul not silly at all.
10:17 kados same with the itemtype *
10:17 kados we need a separate one for 'total'
10:17 kados that is more explicit
10:17 kados total != *
10:18 kados I think we need this to be discussed on koha-devel
10:18 kados it's a very important topic
10:18 paul I agree.
10:18 kados I'm glad I asked :-)
10:18 paul I let you go to breakfast, I go to lunch
10:19 kados ok, sounds good
10:19 paul (how does npl handle that ... as it's the way it works in 2.2)
10:19 paul (& in dev_week as well probably)
10:19 paul you send the mail to koha-devel, or I do it ?
10:20 paul (as you want)
10:24 kados paul_lunch: could you send it? thx :-)
10:24 kados have a good lunch

| Channels | #koha index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | plain, newest first | summary