Time Nick Message 12:32 kados morning #koha 12:38 paul kados : about your cn proposal. 12:38 kados hi 12:38 paul (beep hdl) 12:38 hdl yes 12:38 paul hdl pointed that in france, libraries often have : 12:39 paul - NNN ABC (NNN=dewey ABC=aiuthor) for docs 12:39 paul and letters for fictions 12:39 paul in this scheme, how will we fill lcsort ? 12:39 kados yes, we have the same problem in US public libraries 12:39 paul (it's the scheme most public libraries use) 12:40 kados for sorting, it's impossible to avoid problems 12:40 kados the user must understand that fiction is ABC and non-fiction is 123 12:40 kados in fact, I had this problem for NPL 12:41 kados http://search.athenscounty.lib.oh.us/search 12:41 kados Check the Call Number 'Sort By ' option 12:41 hdl problem is really HARD for inventory/stocktaking. 12:41 kados do you have any idea for a solution? 12:46 kados gys? 12:46 kados guys? 12:47 paul not from me. hdl, an idea ? (i'm not sure it's solvable. I at least wanted to be sure you were aware of the problem 12:47 paul ) 12:48 hdl I have one. But it is not really satisfying. 12:48 hdl a) having more than one subfield for Call Number 12:49 hdl so that ppl would enter a call number for figures in one subfield, callnumber alpha in another. 12:50 paul we can't say to do that to our librarians i'm afraid ! 12:50 hdl If we cannot tell them, 12:50 hdl then it is up to US to make distinction. 12:50 hdl i.e. : when adding a biblio, 12:51 hdl split cn into : 12:51 hdl classification / callnumber 12:51 hdl (on a callnumber delimiter systempref) 12:52 hdl Then see whether it is figures or alphabetical. 12:52 hdl And class it the right way. 12:52 hdl Many of our clients are requesting a solution for stocktaking. 12:59 kados yea, it's a tough prob 13:02 hdl I do agree. 13:03 kados OK, great 13:03 hdl But it seems we would require at least 2 indexes on callnumber. 13:05 kados yea, and that can be messy IMO 13:05 kados so do you guys have a plan for bug fixing 3.0? :-) 13:05 paul for this specific problem ? 13:06 paul not really 13:06 kados no, just in general 13:06 paul I work almost full time on bugfixing. 13:06 kados excellent 13:06 paul for at least the 2 or 3 coming weeks 13:07 kados great news! 13:07 paul most of our impatient clients have accepted to delay 3.0 setup for some more time. only 1 remaining that need something for oct, 24 13:07 paul hdl take care of it. 13:07 paul the french translation of the new templates are done. 13:08 kados cool 13:10 paul kados : I have only a we bugs affected atm. does every liblime assignee take care of their ? 13:10 paul (only 37 for me, 224 overall) 13:11 kados I've asked chris and ryan to focus on blockers this week 13:11 paul I may be able to fix some bugs that are not mine, but how to be sure a liblimer isn't working on it ? 13:11 kados they will announce each one they plan to fix before fixing it 13:11 paul what about setting statut=ASSI on bugs taken 13:11 paul in the bug notes ? 13:11 kados yep, and they will update the assigned status to themselves 13:12 paul ok, thx 13:12 kados if you want to work on a bug, just change yourself to the assignee and say 'I'm working on it' 13:12 paul for sure. I already did id some times. (& just reaffect to you a bug you've written "partial fix commited, will continue soon" 13:14 kados ok, thanks 13:17 paul kados : about Z3950NormalizeAuthor = 13:18 paul in UNIMARC, an author can be in 200$f and in 700 (as an authority) 13:18 paul usually, and it's supposed to be that, the 200$f should always be filled. 13:18 paul but on some catalogues, it can be empty if the 700 is filled with the authority. 13:19 paul as we have author ordering on 200$f, those records are uncorrectly sorted as '' (1st position) 13:19 paul the Z3950NormalizeAuthor fills the 200$f with the 700 if 200$f is empty & the library want it to be auto filled 13:19 paul hope that sounds more clear. 13:20 paul not sure it can be useful for a marc21 library... 13:20 kados yep, doesn't sound like it's a marc21 feature 13:20 kados thanks for the explanation 13:20 paul (otherwise, MARCfindbreeding patch almost done) 13:20 paul http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1473 13:21 kados paul++ 13:22 kados (just summarlize your comments :-)) 13:32 paul kados : any opinion about ireport ? 14:10 kados huh, interesting 14:10 kados it's Java 14:10 kados :( 14:10 kados means it's going to be hard to troubleshoot later 14:10 paul same reaction : :( 14:10 paul yep 14:11 kados plus, we already hav a new stats module that's coming along nicely 14:11 paul do you know a good reporting tool that don't require java ? 14:11 paul another idea then ? 14:11 paul (the subject is not yet defined ) 14:11 kados we have built our own 14:11 kados it's a very difficult process! 14:12 kados we should be done with testing this week 14:12 paul I know. In my previous position, we had investigated to find something 14:12 kados and I can show you something perhaps next week 14:13 kados we have a three-phase process, and we're on phase 1 14:16 hdl paul, kados, maybe talend could provide some bricks for that ? 14:19 kados talend? 14:20 kados ahh, neat 14:20 paul kados : talend is pierrick company ;-) 14:22 kados ahh, cool 14:22 kados pierrick++ 14:22 kados he owns the company, or just works there? 14:22 paul just works here 14:22 kados ahh, ok :-) 14:22 kados otherwise, I'd be very impressed :-) 14:22 kados (still impressed) :-) 14:40 slef hi all. I've ala written on my schedule for now but I can't remember why... are the ALA doing anything interesting online now? ;-) 14:47 kados ALA = American Library Association? 14:58 hdl new Authorities Editor based on MARCeditor on the way. 15:10 kados hdl++ 15:10 kados hdl: I noticed something else, maybe you can explain 15:10 kados it's in the frameworks editor for authorities 15:10 hdl yes ? 15:11 kados it has the visibility flags separated out into three areas, editor, opac and staff 15:11 kados did you do that? 15:11 kados it's very nice 15:11 kados it woudl be a nice addition to the biblio frameworks 15:12 hdl I would like to say yes. But unfortunately, it is tumer's code. 15:12 hdl I did not test if it worked as expected. 15:14 kados ahh, ok 15:14 hdl But I think provided we have a char, we can map to existing behaviour 15:20 kados *nod* 15:20 kados it's nice window dressing, to add after we have fixed blockers :) 15:35 [K] *** join #koha@FreeNode: eloise212 n=aimecs@cpe-74-79-243-242.twcny.res.rr.com 15:35 [K] *** part FreeNode!#koha: eloise212 n=aimecs@cpe-74-79-243-242.twcny.res.rr.com 16:13 paul kados around ? 16:15 kados paul: yep 16:15 paul i have a marc21 default setup. 16:15 paul i have checked all checkboxes, so I have many datas. 16:16 paul seems I have a lot of patrons, with personnal datas. 16:16 paul are the personal datas "false" ? 16:16 paul otherwise, i think it's a major problem (at least if I was a patron & discovered my address & phone... are installed with Koha, i would be very very unhappy !) 16:18 kados yes, it's all false info 16:18 kados completely random 16:19 ryan made from a list of most popular names in US. 17:00 paul bye bye world. see you tomorrow 17:01 kados later paul 17:01 paul_away (8 patches from hdl to test, i'll do it in the morning. 8 patches sent) 17:02 kados great 17:02 kados we'll get those pushed through tonight 20:12 hdl kados : 20:12 hdl are you around ? 20:16 chris i think he is on a flight at the moment hdl 20:16 hdl chris : I wanted to have a brainstorming with him about bulkedit. 20:16 hdl Do you know something about this feature ? 20:26 hdl chris ? 20:26 chris hmm nope, what is it for? bulkediting marc records? 20:27 hdl yes. 20:27 chris sounds like a good feature 20:27 hdl I did it on Result page. 20:27 hdl But Joshua asked to do it preferably in tools. 20:28 hdl My problem is that I see 4 different uses for this tool : 20:28 hdl basket 20:28 hdl virtualshelves 20:28 hdl result of a ccl query 20:29 chris right 20:29 hdl direct search. 20:29 hdl (pqf query) 20:29 chris does he want the bulkedit script to live in tools? or the whole thing? 20:30 chris i guess we need to ask him that 20:30 hdl This is my question. 20:30 hdl The whole thing would require to duplicate search and results. 20:31 chris yes, that wouldnt be good, because it will get out of synx 20:31 hdl anyway, librarians should have a way to create a basket in intranet. 20:31 chris sync 20:31 chris yep 20:31 chris i agree 20:31 hdl This is what I think too. 20:32 hdl Would you tell him if you happen to get in touch with him tonight ? 20:33 chris sure will 20:33 hdl (he marked this as blocker :S ) 20:35 hdl good nite. 20:35 chris good night, sleep well 20:35 hdl_away will try 20:44 kados bulkedit should be in tools, it shouldn't be available after every search 20:44 kados esp since the html it generates is HUGE 20:44 kados but it's a nice feature 20:45 chris ok 20:45 chris but could it work 20:45 chris by you going by tools 20:45 chris and the link there is a link to the search page, with a variable passed in, bulkedit=1 20:46 chris so you do a search, and it passes bulkedit=1 to the results too 20:46 chris and then you get the bulkedit 20:46 kados yea, that'd work 20:46 chris cool 20:46 kados that would be cnfusing thoug 20:46 kados though 20:47 chris well you could do things in the template 20:47 kados it's not clear to the librarian that you're in 'bulk edit' mode 20:47 chris if bulkedit 20:47 kados if we could maek that explicit it'd be fine 20:47 chris <h1>Bulk Editing</h1> 20:47 kados yea 20:47 chris thats how catalogue maintenance worked 20:47 kados cool 20:48 chris that way we dont have to rewrite the search 20:48 kados yea, makes sens 20:57 chris theres a big one that i couldnt apply, of french templates, i think maybe the locales on merry are wrong or something .. somthing to with utf8 anyway 20:57 chris so im getting paul to send it to my liblime address, see if zimbra and the mac handle it better 21:00 kados strange 21:00 chris i got it with the french systempreferences 21:00 chris corrupt patch 21:01 chris and if you look at it, its got manky characters 21:01 chris instead of the proper accents etc 21:01 chris so at some point its getting converted to ascii/iso-9960 (or whatever) 21:01 chris which is busting it up 21:02 kados you check your mutt setings? 21:02 kados it could also be postfix I guess 21:02 chris yeah 21:02 chris so if it comes thru to my liblime mailbox ok 21:02 chris then that narrows it down to something on merry 21:03 chris if it still comes thru munched 21:03 kados *nod* 21:03 chris then its something else 06:48 paul hello world. 06:48 paul chris around ? 08:17 chris hi paul 08:17 chris i am now 08:17 paul hello chris. 08:17 paul 2 questions : 08:17 paul - do you know why kados reverted my #1485 patch ? 08:18 chris ahh he sent you a mail i think 08:18 paul he sended me a mail, to say he had problems with it 08:18 chris i think it didnt fix the problem 08:19 paul I will speak of this with kados later then. I haven't updated my copy atm. 08:19 paul but if I do i'll revert my patch 08:19 paul how can I un-revert it again ? 08:19 paul (to test & complete it if needed) 08:19 chris ahh you can revert the revert :) 08:20 chris its commit 464b0e25e798a87b2b124e840c8eeebb46ade7eb 08:20 chris so you can revert 464b0e25e798a87b2b124e840c8eeebb46ade7eb 08:20 chris and that will revert it 08:21 chris or 08:21 paul right ! then kados will revert the revert of the revert of the patch. 08:21 chris hehe 08:21 chris yep 08:21 paul sounds nice ;-) 08:21 paul my 2nd question then: 08:21 chris or you can apply the patch 08:21 chris that you sent to joshua, and that will make the changes 08:21 chris so 2 ways to do it 08:22 paul in the default english loaded datas, there are some branches defined. 08:22 paul with some branchcategories : 08:22 chris hmm 08:22 paul INSERT INTO branchcategories ( `categorycode`,`categoryname`,`codedescription`) VALUES 08:22 paul -- Org Unit-style categories 08:22 paul ('CON', 'Consortium', 'Consortium library category for scoped searching'), 08:22 paul INSERT INTO branchrelations ( `branchcode`,`categorycode`) VALUES 08:22 paul ('ML','BRA'), -- branch-level library 08:22 paul ('MAIN','PE'), -- for acqui 08:23 paul ('SPL','SYS'), -- system-level library 08:23 paul does branchcategories really work ? 08:23 paul what does it do ? 08:23 chris getbranches() 08:23 chris can take a categorycode as an argument 08:24 chris so at HLT 08:24 chris the have some branches which are categorycode IS (of issuing) 08:24 chris and some which arent 08:24 chris in the opac-reserve.pl it only gets branches which are of category IS 08:25 chris so people can only choose to pick up a reserve from a branch that can issue 08:26 chris so they might also have a branch they call Mending (where a book goes when its damaged to be fixed) 08:26 paul wow ! I never saw that feature ! 08:26 paul mmm... 08:26 paul opac-reserve.pl says : 08:26 paul my $branches = GetBranches(); 08:26 paul need some fixes it seems ;-) 08:27 chris yeah, at hlt it says my $branches = GetBranches('IS'); 08:27 chris yeah, it needs to be documented and fixed, i think joshua was documenting it 08:27 paul ok, thanks. 08:29 paul wow... an analysis of F <> NZ match... 08:29 chris hehe 08:29 paul france won 197 to 47 08:29 paul ... 08:29 paul for "plaquages" ! 08:29 chris ? 08:29 paul (don't know the word in english) 08:29 paul when you make a guy falling 08:29 chris hmmm i wonder if google can tell us 08:29 chris tackle 08:29 paul yep 08:30 chris yeah, france won because they defending so well 08:30 paul 30% vs 70% of ball owning 08:30 chris yeah 08:30 chris nz has no one to blame except themselves, they had much more ball, but made to many mistakes 08:33 chris but now you must beat england .. or slef will laugh at both of us :-) 08:33 paul for sure ! 09:01 chris http://photos.bigballofwax.co.nz/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=9824 09:01 chris kahurangi with food stuck on his nose :) 10:04 kados paul: you around? 10:04 paul hi kados 10:04 paul yep 10:04 kados paul: did you see my note about the one patch? 10:04 paul (although going to lunch in a few minuts) 10:04 paul yep 10:04 paul & i need more info... 10:04 paul you wrote : 10:05 paul I tried applying this patch, then re-installing Koha and testing the 10:05 paul fines saving. 10:05 kados right 10:05 paul but my patch was about *issuing* rules, not fines 10:05 kados hmmm 10:05 kados I thought the bug was about *finds* rules 10:06 paul + the itemtype default are useless because they mean nothing functionnaly. 10:06 kados really? 10:06 kados they have meaning for my libraries 10:06 paul mmm... I may have miswritten the note. 10:07 paul the feature "an adult can issue 3 books, 2 videos, but no more than 4 things" is ok, for sure 10:07 paul but the feature " an adult can issue 3 books, a children can issue 2 books, a staff member can issue 5 books, but nobody can issue more than 5 books means nothing" 10:07 kados paul: http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1485 (it's a bug report about fines rules) 10:08 kados hmmm 10:08 kados that's not what 'default' means in the US context 10:08 kados in the US, it means 'if you don't specific a value by borrower type, here is the default' 10:09 kados so it means 'by default, everyone can issue 5 books' 10:09 kados then, maybe you will specify that 'children' can only issue 3 books 10:09 kados but adults, staff, etc., may just be in the default 10:10 kados does that make sense? 10:10 paul i'm afraid no 10:10 paul ah, ok 10:10 paul got it. 10:10 paul but it's not the way it's handled by koha. 10:11 paul it does not mean "default", it means "any case" 10:11 paul think the itemtype rule : 10:11 paul 3 books, 5 videos, 5 total maximum 10:11 paul when you issue something, every rule is checked 10:12 kados most applications provide for rules that transition from 'general rule' to 'specific rule' 10:12 kados that's what users expect 10:12 kados and that's how Koha 2.2 works 10:12 kados I'm not sure if that's changed in 3.0 10:12 paul ??? no ! 10:12 paul that not how it works in 2.2 10:13 kados hmmm 10:13 kados so if you fill out the default values they will override all other values? 10:13 paul that's one of the reason why we had some/many questions. 10:13 paul nope. 10:13 paul all values are checked. 10:13 paul if a cell is empty, it is considered as 0,0 10:14 paul (0 = no issuing possible) 10:14 paul a lot of users thought that the most right line was for "consider this if I don't fill a cell", but it was not the way it worked. 10:14 paul (and it is still not) 10:14 paul we could reintroduce that feature in this way 10:15 paul but that would be confusing with itemtype wildcard 10:15 paul (3 books, 5 dvd, 5 total) 10:15 paul which is totally different. 10:15 kados what's total? 10:15 paul "any document" 10:15 paul don't you have such rules in US ? 10:15 paul in Marseille, PL, the rules are : 10:15 paul - up to 10 books 10:16 kados so '*' means 'any document' ? 10:16 paul - up to 1 DVD 10:16 paul - up to 1 fiction DVD 10:16 paul - up to 10 documents averall 10:16 paul yep, * = any doc 10:16 kados wow, that's not what people think at all! 10:16 kados this needs to be discussed on koha-devel 10:16 paul and the previous * on the left means * = any patron category, which is silly 10:17 paul s/left/right 10:17 kados it's not silly at all 10:17 paul if we consider it as fdefault, right 10:17 kados most US libraries assume it is a default that can be overridden by a more specific case 10:17 paul not silly at all. 10:17 kados same with the itemtype * 10:17 kados we need a separate one for 'total' 10:17 kados that is more explicit 10:17 kados total != * 10:18 kados I think we need this to be discussed on koha-devel 10:18 kados it's a very important topic 10:18 paul I agree. 10:18 kados I'm glad I asked :-) 10:18 paul I let you go to breakfast, I go to lunch 10:19 kados ok, sounds good 10:19 paul (how does npl handle that ... as it's the way it works in 2.2) 10:19 paul (& in dev_week as well probably) 10:19 paul you send the mail to koha-devel, or I do it ? 10:20 paul (as you want) 10:24 kados paul_lunch: could you send it? thx :-) 10:24 kados have a good lunch