IRC log for #koha, 2007-07-18

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
12:00 kados cool
12:00 jaron sounds like things are moving along with 3, huh?
12:01 kados yea, definitely got some good momentum going
12:01 jaron did you get things resolved with the framework?
12:02 kados yep, seems to be working fine now
12:02 kados needed a new column in for 'defaultvalue' was one prob
12:03 jaron ah
12:21 kados jaron: did you see that mail from mohamed fekry on the koha list?
12:21 kados jaron: asking about conversion from an access db?
12:22 jaron no, I hadn't.
12:23 kados I thought I say you say yesterday you had some ruby code to convert from non-marc to marc
12:23 jaron well, I don't know if there is a perfect program, huh.
12:23 kados hehe
12:23 kados everyone wants a perfect program :-)
12:23 jaron no, I'm just doing copy cataloging.
12:24 kados ahh, ok
12:24 jaron At some point I'd like to write a cvs to marc script in ruby, but not yet
12:24 kados have you considered packaging up your ruby stuff and putting it on
12:24 kados ?
12:24 jaron I'd at least put a link there to the rubyforge project:
12:25 jaron You'll see I'm also working on grabbing authority records much easier as a part of grabbing marc records.
12:25 kados sweet
12:25 jaron uses worldcat identities, but hasn't been incorporated into the main script yet.
12:26 kados man, I wish I could get you and chris catalfo to work together :-)
12:26 kados you could do all the back-end and he could do the web interface
12:26 jaron yeah, I'm weak on the web interface stuff right now.
12:27 hdl jaron :
12:27 jaron I'd be happy to work with him but I'm really only interested in writing Ruby right now.
12:27 kados *nod*
12:27 jaron yes, hdl?
12:27 dewey rumour has it hdl is here
12:27 hdl toins is rewriting MARCeditor
12:28 toins jaron: you speak about the koha marc editor ?
12:28 jaron is that a particular program or the opencataloger?
12:28 hdl No KohaMARCEditor
12:28 kados jaron: toins is, I think, working on the koha MARC editor
12:28 jaron hi, toins. no, not a marc editor right now, but a copy cataloging script right now.
12:29 toins ok
12:29 jaron you can edit subfields that already exist
12:29 jaron but it doesn't want to be a full blown marc editor--yet.
12:29 jaron it's mainly a project to learn Ruby and help catalog my PT job's collection.
12:31 jaron I needed something quicker than the current marc editor that would do scripted changes to records.
12:31 jaron and would create csv files for label making
12:32 jaron right now it's only command line, but the objects created for the next version will allow the library to be reused as a web or gui, I think.
12:34 kados toins: are you altering the functionality of the KohaMARCEditor? or just cleaning the code?
12:36 toins kados: cleaning the code and rewriting some functions
12:37 toins my work is fully test currently by a french library (IPT)
12:37 toins (but in unimarc)
12:37 kados of course
12:37 kados what I hear is that the biggest problem is the speed
12:38 toins speed ?
12:38 dewey somebody said speed was just crazy fast
12:38 kados it's because we load a HUGE html page
12:38 toins yep
12:38 toins i 've made some optimisation too..
12:38 jaron that's what I'd say is the worst problem with it.
14:37 kados hey foxnorth
14:37 dewey i think foxnorth is the programmer working on the new cataloging app for google summer of code
14:37 kados hehe
14:37 foxnorth hey kados!
14:38 kados dewey: botsnack
14:38 dewey thanks kados :)
14:38 foxnorth just writing back to your email
14:38 kados sweet
14:38 foxnorth 1 sec :)
14:44 foxnorth kados: just emailed you current status
14:44 kados w00t
14:45 kados woops, looks like I missed your last email, sorry :(
14:46 kados LOC doesn't do Unicode properly
14:46 kados so I'm not surprised you're having trouble there
14:46 kados i generally download using marc-8 and convert on the fly :-)
14:46 kados (downloading marc21 rather than marcxml records should also reduce the network traffic between you and LOC by a factor of 10
14:47 jaron I agree with kados on the above.
14:48 kados foxnorth: I'd say lets focus on the UI for now
14:49 kados foxnorth: particulary the cataloging workflow and the editing process
14:49 foxnorth ok that's good to know
14:49 foxnorth about loc!
14:49 foxnorth agreed on the ui
14:49 kados because I can always handle the searching and saving
14:49 kados but I'm all thumbs with UI stuff
14:49 foxnorth ok--
14:49 foxnorth have you checked out the latest incarnation?
14:50 foxnorth the editor needs some serious work still
14:50 foxnorth but that should be a fun part
14:51 kados *nod*
14:51 kados what's a good search to try?
14:51 kados it's just giving me errors for the ones I've tried
14:52 foxnorth um
14:52 foxnorth xml as keyword?
14:52 kados there we go
14:52 kados cool
14:53 kados it'd also be swank if you could preview the record
14:53 kados is that what the bottom panel is for?
14:53 kados in the results page?
14:53 kados btw: I found this really great book on interface design
14:53 kados Designing Interfaces: Patterns for Effective Interaction Design  by Jenifer Tidwell
14:54 kados it has some 'patterns' that I think might be useful for this
14:55 foxnorth huh
14:55 foxnorth ah ok
14:55 foxnorth should have your test records i believe too
14:55 foxnorth dbl-click to open record
14:56 kados yep
14:56 kados that's pretty swank
14:56 foxnorth actually i was thinking about a pop-up sort of window to preview in!
14:56 foxnorth like hovering over record in search results would show you most pertinent other data or something
14:56 kados well, one of the complains I often get about our current z39.50 client
14:57 kados is that you can't preview the marc record while browsing the list
14:57 foxnorth ah the bottom panel is supposed to be a status bar:for searching, saving status etc.
14:57 foxnorth seems like a good idea to me
14:57 foxnorth i would have loved to be able to do that as a cataloger
14:57 kados maybe a two-panels side by side pattern would be something to try
14:57 foxnorth for the preview?
14:57 kados as you scroll down, the second panel updates
14:57 kados yea
14:57 foxnorth uh huh
14:57 kados kind like when you're reading email
14:57 foxnorth gotcha
14:58 kados phone, brb
15:39 Frederic kados: how are you? I'm converting data into a koha 3 marc21 db. I've just seen you're about to modify marc21 framework file for koha 3. Why for? Do I need to wait this commit?
15:39 Frederic thd: Are you there? I would like to phone you?
16:04 foxnorth jaron: are you still around?
16:05 jaron I'm just heading out to lunch right now, but I'll be back in 30.
16:05 jaron unless it's something quick?
16:11 foxnorth no problem!  i
16:11 foxnorth i'll hang around :)
16:59 jaron foxnorth: still there?
16:59 dewey it has been said that there is no spoon
17:00 foxnorth jaron: hey! still here
17:01 foxnorth jaron: kados mentioned he'd passed on the url to the cataloging app i'm working on
17:01 foxnorth jaron: now that it's a little farther along, if you have time sometime, i'd love for some feedback from a fellow cataloger's perspective! :)
17:01 jaron yes. I started jotting notes if you're interested.
17:01 foxnorth i'd love to hear your thoughts!
17:02 jaron UI stuff: I get some funny artifacts between lines of the editor. It loads quickly. I'd like the subfield indicators to be highlighted so '|a' would be in bold. Keyboard shortcuts to move between tabs. Long lines should wrap. No scrolling side to side. Indicators need only be one character wide. Center the fixed fields. Don't want to mess with record length unless you really know what you're doing so make it uneditable?
17:02 foxnorth if you've got a lot, feel free to email them
17:02 jaron well, that's a start.
17:02 foxnorth yep
17:02 foxnorth agree with all of that!
17:03 foxnorth i'm actually working right now on making the editor prettier (e.g. highlighting of subfield codes)
17:03 foxnorth i'm trying out tiny_mce as a rich text editor
17:03 jaron cool.
17:03 foxnorth need to figure out how to disable its button toolbar, though
17:03 foxnorth believe i'll have to do it w/ css
17:03 foxnorth doesn't seem to have a config option for this that i've found
17:03 foxnorth so that's unfortunate
17:04 foxnorth i was thinking, i always wanted to be able to tab between subfields of a tag
17:04 jaron good.
17:04 foxnorth not sure if that's what you meant, or just tab betweeen tags?
17:04 foxnorth how about general workflow?
17:04 jaron tab between the tabs on the top
17:04 foxnorth i've tried to model this on oclc connexion
17:04 foxnorth that's a good idea
17:04 foxnorth a bit
17:04 jaron I see that.
17:05 foxnorth i havent' set up "status" values in the sqlite db yet
17:05 foxnorth and i'm thinking of making those user configurable
17:05 foxnorth as in connexion (at least desktop client version w/ its status indicators)
17:05 jaron or with a little about what's commonly in that field for marc21?
17:05 foxnorth woops brb
17:05 jaron maybe with link to oclc bib formats?
17:05 jaron ok
17:22 foxnorth jaron: agreed. thanks for your thoughts so far! i'll bbiab--
17:57 hdl jaron : 2character wide for indicators seems wiser.
17:57 jaron hdl: and then just have one text field for both indicators?
17:57 hdl since sometimes, 2 indicateors may be needed (for 200, 701  710 Unimarc)
17:58 hdl OK.
17:58 jaron yeah, 2 indicators are used a lot in marc21 as well
17:59 jaron right now each of the two indicator fields is wider than one character
18:00 jaron and that's a mistake
18:49 atz greets
19:02 kados hiya atz
19:02 atz what's up?
19:03 kados need to get more coffee :-)
19:03 atz i also recommend sleep
19:03 atz :)
19:03 kados hehe
19:03 kados how about you, what're you up to?
19:04 atz just coding.... present more features to the group tomorrow morning
19:04 atz oh, and mocking sirsi.  
19:05 atz They posted their (decade overdue) OSS code to FTP
19:05 atz  (user: opensource, pass: freesoftware)
19:05 atz but their tarfile is corrupt.  Classic.
00:40 kados foxnorth: you around?
01:20 thd seen kados ?
01:20 dewey kados was last seen on #koha 39 minutes and 51 seconds ago, saying: foxnorth: you around? [Wed Jul 18 12:40:48 2007]
01:21 thd kados: you around?
01:28 kados thd: am now
01:46 thd kados: are you still now
01:46 thd ?
01:50 kados thd: yes :-)
01:50 kados thd: are you? :-)
01:51 thd yes
01:51 thd kados: did you see my koha-zebra list message?
01:56 thd kados: are we playing message tag?
01:56 kados yes
01:57 kados I saw it
01:57 kados I didn't know about that limitation
01:57 thd kados: so how much will it cost to fix the problem?
01:57 kados what circumstances is it most relevant to?
01:57 kados and how did you discover it?
01:58 kados I'm not sure I believe it
02:00 thd kados: f you want a big library which has Cyrillic, Greek, Arabic, Hebrew, Chinese, etc. which they need indexed in the original language instead of merely the Latin transliteration then you need a fix for that problem.
02:00 kados *nod*
02:01 kados but I'm not sure I believe that it's a limit in zebra 2.0
02:01 thd kados: did you read the linked message from the Index Data Zebra mailing list?
02:01 kados yep
02:01 thd kados: frederic found the problem and told me about it on telephone today
02:02 kados ahh, I see now
02:02 kados yep, looks like it will need to be sponsored
02:02 kados I have no idea how much, why don't you ask the zebralist?
02:02 thd kados: would the Index Data mailing list have incorrect information from such a recent date?
02:02 kados no, you're right, it looks legit
02:03 thd kados: do you mean that I should ask on Index Data's own list?
02:03 kados yep
02:03 thd kados: OK I will subscribe later
02:04 jaron yeah, I'd hope that if they'd like many parties to throw in together for the change they might also be willing to throw a figure out there.
02:04 jaron gotta go.
02:05 thd kados: Frédéric told me that he did an install of MARC 21 Koha 3.0 today and did not encounter the bug for the missing framework column.  How could that be?
02:06 kados dunno
02:06 thd kados: under what circumstance did you see an error?
02:07 kados durring the install IIRC
02:07 kados and while editing a framework
02:07 thd kados: which installer were you using?
02:08 kados the web installer of course
02:09 thd kados: is the command line installer unfinished for 3.0?
02:09 kados no
02:10 thd kados: to add the column to the framework I need to know what order the columns are in or where default_value is in the order
02:10 kados defaultvalue is last
02:11 kados it's defined in kohastructure.sql
02:11 kados[…]=koha&view=markup
02:12 thd kados: I used less verbose INSERT statements so that I could edit the frameworks without excess noise so the safeguard about column order is absent.
02:12 kados cool
02:12 thd kados: the safeguard is only an issue when a new column is added such as now
02:13 thd kados: I asked paul about the issue at the time and he said not to worry until we added more columns
02:13 kados hehe
02:13 kados sounds like it's worry time :-)
02:14 thd kados: I assume that you were not updating an existing install when you tested.  Is that correct?
02:14 kados correct
02:15 thd kados: were you using MySQL 4.X?
02:15 kados 5.0
02:19 thd kados: I will update default_structure.sql which the installer uses as well as the DROP the framework tables and start again scripts
02:21 kados great!
02:21 kados[…]oot=koha&view=log
02:21 kados that's the currently used default_structure.sql
02:22 thd kados: is there an optional directory with other versions?
02:22 kados could be
02:23 thd kados: what does mandatory mean in that context?
02:24 kados it means mandatory :-)
02:24 thd ;)
02:28 thd kados: frederic told me that there was discussion today on IRC about a GUI editor for Koha
02:28 thd kados: Is someone actually working of a GUI editor?
02:29 thd s/of/on/
09:42 slef Hi all.  Does koha 3.0 still use Net::Z3950?
09:43 chris not afaik
09:43 lloyd slef - howdy
09:43 lloyd been looking for you
09:43 chris uses ZOOM
09:43 slef lloyd: oh aye, you were meeting people on Friday?
09:44 lloyd I was supposed to but couldn't make it. It's been rearranged for the 26th
09:44 slef chris: still lists Net::Z3950
09:44 chris hmm
09:45 chris im not sure i trust at all
09:45 chris lemme go look
09:46 chris i suspect no one has edited to update it
09:47 slef if someone could, that would help me with Makefile.PL
09:47 slef thanks
09:47 slef search for @component_names
09:47 chris yeah
09:48 chris hasnt been updated since april
09:48 chris ill ask hdl or toins if i see them tonight
09:49 hdl hi
09:49 toins hi too
09:49 hdl (on phone)
09:53 chris yeah the only references to Net::Z3950 I can find are in and (and the safe-installer)
10:03 slef chris: do you have time to take a look at Makefile.PL:/PREREQ_PM for any other red herrings?
11:05 zsh Hi! I've been trying to print barcodes using koha but I keep getting "Internal server error". I google'd and i noticed several people have been getting the same problem. Does anyone have a solution for it?
11:05 slef check your error_log for what actually broke
11:05 slef "Internal server error" is Apache's equivalent of "something went wrong"
11:05 slef so it's hard to solve it just from that
11:06 zsh ok. lemme paste the error i got.
11:08 masonj zsh: ive recently done a tidy up of the barcodes stuff in cvs
11:10 zsh masonj: ok, i'll have a look
11:10 masonj if you are keen, you can grab the latest barcodes stuff from the koha rel_2_2 branch in cvs, and see if that solves your problem
11:10 slef masonj: updated to use the current modules?
11:12 masonj hmm, more  a template tidy-up for default and npl templates
11:13 zsh [Wed Jul 18 14:11:40 2007] [error] [client] Can't locate object method "barcode" via package "PDF::API2" at /usr/local/koha/intranet/cgi-bi​n/barcodes/ line 237., referer: http://localhost:8002/cgi-bin/[…]codes/
11:13 masonj aaaah
11:13 slef that's the modules problem... I'll go grab the patch from the client site once I've finished these emails
11:13 slef zsh: 2.2.9?
11:15 zsh slef: not sure i think so, lemme check. i grabbed the latest release from www.koha.or
11:15 zsh *
11:15 zsh yes 2.2.9
11:16 masonj is from the orig. barcodes work, done by  Physics Library UNLP Argentina
11:18 masonj i was refering to a different barcodes module
11:19 masonj but, yes, slef has a known fix, for that known bug :)
11:19 slef masonj: which is standard in 2.2?
11:22 masonj hmm, i think the new barcodes code may not be in the 2.2 tgz, yet
11:23 masonj so it might be just the orig. barcodes code as standard
11:23 zsh masonj: is the code in cvs relatively complete, may i use it on a production machine?
11:25 zsh masonj: the barcode stuff that is.
11:25 masonj sure, we have been using it on our prod boxes for a while
11:26 slef masonj: is there an orig barcodes V new barcodes summary somewhere?
11:26 masonj its pretty harmless, but you should have a look on a test box first
11:27 zsh masonj: ok
11:29 masonj slef: i sent a summary email to the koha-dev list a long while back about the new barcodes stuff, but apart from that there, isnt  any summary that i know of yet
11:29 slef masonj: that tells me where to search.  Thanks.
11:30 slef Someone should make a koha development federated search... lots of stuff is indexed already and general search engines suck for koha, giving me lots of links to Albanian newspapers.
11:31 masonj yikes
11:31 zsh slef: :)
11:32 slef depending on search terms, of course
11:33 hdl slef: about perl module dependancies,
11:34 hdl i can send you a processed list of all the modules with the filenames which use it.
11:34 hdl Are you interested ?
11:35 slef hdl: yes, please. I was using grep -r '^use' koha or similar.
11:36 hdl (Basically, this is what I did... But in a perl script to get output better...)
11:36 hdl :P
11:42 zsh slef: you mentioned a patch for the barcode problem, i'd like to try that before i start messing around with cvs, could you send me a link or something  
11:43 slef zsh: 1 email to do.  (I'm at work.)
11:43 zsh slef: ok, np.
11:46 hdl sent to phonecoop adress.
11:47 slef hdl: thanks
11:49 slef ok, now looking for patch
11:50 zsh slef: thanks
11:50 slef No route to host
11:50 slef ok, that's a problem
11:50 slef oh yes, they changed ISP
11:51 slef I'll see if I've got the new address
11:54 slef new firewall too... I'll email their network admin, but first I'll see
11:54 slef if I have a copy of the patch somewhere
11:55 slef I wonder if it's this one called "barcodefix.patch"!
11:55 slef zsh:
11:56 slef zsh: if it still works, please tell me and I'll commit it to rel_2_2
11:56 zsh slef: thanks, you r a lifesaver
11:56 zsh zsh: ok, will do
11:56 slef zsh: say that after you've tested it ;-)
11:57 slef zsh: you OK with patching?
11:57 zsh slef: yeah, np
11:57 slef cool
11:58 slef right, 4 hours at work and I've just finished basic correspondence :-/
11:58 slef big project management --

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