IRC log for #koha, 2007-07-06

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
13:21 jaron toins, can I ask you a question about opencataloger?
13:22 toins yep jaron
13:22 jaron are you using z39.50 extended services to get the records into the zebra database?
13:22 jaron for koha that is.
13:23 toins jaron: i use ZOOM
13:23 toins don't know what is z3950 extended services...
13:23 jaron same thing as zoom
13:23 toins ah...
13:24 jaron so you do something like 'update insert record.xml'
13:25 toins jaron: here is the search script :[…]v=352&view=markup
13:29 jaron toins: Thank you. I'll have a look at the code.
13:30 toins your welcome
13:30 jaron Right now I'm interested in how you get records into the database.
13:30 jaron would that be in
13:31 toins jaron: yes
13:31 jaron thank you, toins.
14:29 jaron hmmm... So I've installed koha-3. The marc structure is broken so I can't get records into the system. I can get records into zebra with yaz-client. Is there any way to get them to show up in the catalog now?
14:49 jaron Is there any way to get records that are directly stored and indexed in zebra to show up in the catalog?  
15:49 kados he jaron_lunch
15:49 kados jaron_lunch: are you sure it's the MARC structure that's broken?
15:49 kados I ran the MARC check and it seemed to be fine
15:55 jaron kados: you're right the MARC Checking shows my configuration is OK.
15:55 kados I think toins committed some changes to the MARC editor recently
15:55 kados maybe we should look to roll those back until they're ready?
15:57 jaron at least for testing it would help to be able to have some records in the system :)
15:57 toins kados: nope i haven't commited any things on the marc edior atm
15:57 toins but soon ;-)
15:57 kados ahh
15:57 kados cool
15:57 kados toins: does the current one in 3.0 work for you?
15:57 kados toins: I'd be curious because we can't seem to get it working
16:01 toins kados: the current marc editor works well yes
16:01 kados that's really strange
16:01 kados maybe it works for UNIMARC and not MARC21?
16:02 toins don't know for marc21... But it works in 2 libraries in unimarc
16:25 hdl kados : what do you mean by not working ?
16:25 hdl you cannot edit ? you cannot save ?
16:28 kados hdl: can't even view the MARC fields
16:28 kados hdl: - kohaadmin / PASSWORD
16:30 ryan don't think that's the right url
16:30 hdl Is there any bibliographic record?
16:30 hdl That is OPAC.
16:30 kados ahh, sorry
16:30 paul liblime guys are fans of the lord of the ring...
16:30 kados
16:30 kados I got confused with which character it was :-)
16:31 paul when does those 2 machines get married ?
16:31 kados (all our servers are named after LOTR characters)
16:31 kados hehe
16:32 hdl any bib data to search for ?
16:32 kados no bib data yet
16:32 kados just try to add a MARC record
16:35 hdl no marc structure in aragorn
16:36 hdl[…]pl?frameworkcode=
16:36 hdl maybe a problem with framework import ???
16:36 kados ahh
16:36 kados but that's not the only prob
16:36 kados even when the frameworks import it's still a blank MARC page
16:36 kados just a sec
16:37 kados I'll re-do the installation
16:37 kados ok
16:37 kados I dropped and re-created the db
16:37 kados hdl: you wanna run the installer?
16:38 kados see if you get any errors?
16:38 kados then, try to add a MARC record?
16:38 kados otherwise I can run the installer and you can try to add a MARC afterwards
16:40 kados hdl: let me know if you perfer to run the installer or want me to
16:40 hdl I did.
16:40 kados cool
16:40 hdl It works now.
16:41 kados wow!
16:41 kados maybe you ran the installer differently than me?
16:42 kados which frameworks did you select? just mandatory ones?
16:43 kados jaron: maybe try droping your datbase and running the installer again
16:43 hdl (ANY)
16:43 hdl :P
16:44 hdl When I find things available, I check....
16:44 kados ok
16:44 kados paul_away: hdl did you see my mail about kohastructure.sql?
16:44 hdl ( I wanted to see all the stuff you did.)
16:45 kados ( right )
16:45 kados it's strange because I did nothing different last time and the MARC page was blank
16:45 kados did you run updatedatabase?
16:45 jaron kados: What do I need to do now?
16:46 kados jaron: I'm still trying to work it out, but the MARC editor seems to be working now
16:46 jaron cool.
16:46 kados hdl has the magic touch apparantly :-)
16:46 hdl lol
16:46 hdl kados : yes
16:48 kados hdl: whats' your opinion about kohastructure.sql?
16:50 hdl I agree kohastructure.sql should be authoritative.
16:50 hdl And should be maintained by someone.
16:51 hdl (or fixed for ONCE before getting further)
16:51 kados cool
16:51 kados so how can we arrive at what the 3.0 kohastructure.sql should be?
16:51 kados should we have a meeting about it?
16:51 kados and go through each table?
16:51 hdl paul is away tommorrow for 2 weeks.
16:51 kados right
16:52 hdl I will be away for 2 in 1week time.
16:52 hdl so now cannot be the time.
16:52 hdl But 1st place to discuss could be the wiki.
16:53 kados I would very much like to get a developers' release of 3.0 out this month
16:53 hdl to explain table by table the field definition
16:53 kados yes
16:53 hdl and relation.
16:53 kados good idea
16:53 kados do you think you'd have time to work on that this month?
16:53 kados do we need it before the developers' release?
17:00 kados hdl: ?
17:00 hdl Yes, If I work nights that month :P
17:00 kados hehe
17:01 kados IKWYM
17:01 kados so I guess the answer is no
17:01 hdl No I don't think taht we need such a definition before developer's release.
17:01 kados which kohastructure.sql should we use for the release?
17:01 hdl But would be VERY helpful.
17:02 hdl which one did you use for aragorn ?
17:02 kados we might need a Database Design Manager
17:02 kados I ahve three on aragorn :-)
17:02 hdl not full time but part time, yes
17:03 kados I think the current one is based on Paul's sqldump
17:03 kados it doesn't have defaultvalue in marc_subfield_structure though
17:03 kados and I don't know what else it doens't have
17:06 hdl maybe we could rely on a 22 base updated to rel30 base ? Couldn't we ?
17:06 kados i don't trust updatedatabase :-)
17:06 kados hmmm
17:08 hdl Moreover updatedatabase fills in some values.
17:09 kados yea
17:09 hdl which is not necessary.
17:09 kados agreed
17:09 hdl But can give us a structure.
17:09 kados maybe we could use one of the french libraries who are running 3.0 in production?
17:09 kados as the structure?
17:09 kados (for the developers' release)
17:10 kados LANG=C mysqldump -cnQ koha >kohastructure.sql
17:10 kados according to MJ is a good way
17:10 kados to get it
17:10 hdl that is to say what paul commited.
17:10 hdl more or less.
17:10 kados the one paul committed failed for me
17:10 kados i did a bug on it
17:10 hdl I will take this part tomorrow.
17:11 kados ok
17:11 kados hdl:[…]oot=koha&view=log
17:12 kados hdl: will explain the error I got and why I reverted to the previous version of kohastructure.sql in CVS
19:06 slef hi all
19:06 kados hey slef
19:07 kados slef++ for ideas on the kohastructure.sql
19:07 kados :-)
19:07 slef kados: spaces in filenames are pain
19:07 slef kados: can we rename files to get rid of them, please?
19:07 kados which ones?
19:08 slef kados: or shall I silently remove them from the tarball?
19:08 kados which files are we talking about?
19:08 slef cd koha ; find . -name '* *'
19:08 kados yowza
19:08 kados it's all those images
19:08 slef yes, mostly images
19:09 slef and one release note
19:09 kados and release notes
19:09 kados I'd say we can rename those files
19:09 slef should any directories that are in CVS not be in the tarball?
19:09 kados hmmm
19:10 kados koha/misc doesn't need to be
19:10 kados koha/t either
19:10 kados and, it appears
19:10 kados koha/rss
19:10 slef koha/t are tests, aren't they?
19:10 kados yea
19:10 kados koha/updater
19:10 slef good to have in the tarball for "make test"
19:11 kados yup
19:11 kados no idea what koha/localfile is
19:11 kados I think everything else should be OK
19:11 slef ; cat localfile/modified_authorities/DO_NOT_REMOVE
19:11 slef do not remove this file, used to avoid cvs deleting this directory
19:12 kados huh
19:12 kados weird
19:12 kados I've no clue what that is
19:12 slef put out an APB on koha-devel?
19:12 slef oh wait
19:12 kados or why it's cluttering my namespace :-)
19:12 slef file DO_NOT_REMOVE was initially added on branch rel_2_2.
19:13 slef adding a field useful only for CVS, to avoid deletion of empty directories. this directory is filled when modifying an authority. the merge_authority script get files here & deals with them
19:13 kados huh
19:13 slef ^^ paul's comments
19:13 kados weird
19:13 kados lets delete it
19:13 kados /usr/tmp is a better place I think
19:13 slef I'll exclude it from the tarball
19:13 slef or even /var/tmp
19:13 kados or even the db
19:13 kados yea
19:14 slef /usr/tmp shouldn't exist IIRC
19:14 kados ahh, /var/tmp is what I meant then
19:15 slef looks like default data is under misc/
19:15 slef or have I misread that?
19:15 kados misc/sql-datas/
19:15 kados IIRC
19:16 kados but that's a bad namespace I think
19:16 kados or do you mean default data as in everything?
19:16 kados we need to organize that better
19:16 kados any ideas?
19:16 kados types of data are:
19:16 kados frameworks
19:17 slef definitely a bad namespace... I'm confused by what to package
19:17 kados sample bibliographic data
19:17 kados sample authoritis data
19:17 kados stopwords
19:17 kados system preferences
19:17 kados user flags
19:17 kados sample patron data
19:18 kados sample authorized values
19:18 kados sample itemtypes
19:18 kados sample borrower categories
19:18 kados sample libraries (branch defs)
19:18 kados sample circulation matrices
19:18 kados namespace ideas?
19:19 slef what are the misc/*.pl files?
19:19 kados misc scripts that have accumulated over the years
19:19 slef scripts not cgi-bins?
19:19 kados command-line utilities ... basically misc is where you put all the unorganized shit
19:20 kados right, not cgi-bins
19:21 slef ok, I'm putting modules into the main perl module namespace
19:21 slef cgi-bins under koha/cgi-bin/...
19:22 slef misc scripts under koha/scripts/...
19:22 slef what other file types need a home?
19:22 slef presumably tmpls and sqls?
19:22 kados hmmm
19:22 kados sqls?
19:22 slef the .sql files
19:23 slef where does the web installer expect to find them?
19:23 kados ahh
19:23 kados atm they are in koha/misc/sql-datas
19:23 kados but we should move them
19:23 kados cuz that's ugly
19:23 kados IMO
19:25 slef so if I patch the web installer to find them wherever I put them, that's fine?
19:25 kados yep, fine with me
19:25 kados but I'd like to see what namespace you intend to use if that's alright
19:25 kados lets make it right in the CVS
19:26 kados IYKWIM
19:26 kados like maybe a
19:26 kados koha/data
19:26 kados ?
19:26 slef works for me
19:26 kados koha/data/sql
19:26 kados koha/data/sample_bibliographic
19:26 slef or should they be in koha/installer?
19:26 kados yea, maybe that
19:26 kados I dunno
19:26 slef Does anything other than the installer use them?
19:27 kados no, not those specifically
19:27 kados just the installer
19:27 kados the koha/misc/sql-datas ones are only used by the installer
19:27 kados so installer/data/en installer/data/fr ?
19:28 slef sounds good
19:28 slef do I want to install everything from koha-tmpl?
19:29 slef koha-tmpl/errors contains CGI scripts... that's nice.
19:35 kados weird
19:36 slef seems I already handled that with rules I'd already written
19:36 kados everything else looks OK
19:36 kados why is errors in there I wonder
19:37 slef someone taking advantage of Options ExecCGI on their server, at a guess
19:37 kados should we relocate it as well?
19:37 slef doesn't matter to me
19:38 slef I call *.pl a CGI as long as it's not in misc
19:38 kados cool
19:41 slef dinner time here... bbi60
20:19 slef back early
20:33 hdl kados : localfiles stores authorities modification
20:33 hdl misc stores overdue scripts.
20:33 hdl and updater should be in tarball for sure.
20:34 kados hdl: updater shouldn't be in cgi though
20:34 kados misc is pretty dissorganized for my tasts
20:34 kados tastes even
20:35 slef so updater in the tarball?
20:35 kados yep, but not in the cgi
20:35 slef what about rss?
20:36 kados same I think
20:37 hdl And it is interesting.
20:37 hdl I agree reorganizing things could be a good thing.
20:38 hdl But should be explained on koha-devel... at least.
20:38 kados hdl: yep
20:38 kados hdl: good to get a plan first, then post to koha-devel for comments
20:39 hdl remember we have two libraries running koha rel30 cvs
20:39 kados right
20:40 slef do they cvs up automatically? ;-)
20:40 hdl IPT no, we do it.
20:41 hdl neither do San WP.
20:41 hdl If a big warning is on koha-devel.
20:41 hdl It will be OK.
20:42 slef why is there a koha/.htaccess ?
20:43 slef those could go in koha-production-httpd.conf
20:43 slef and anyway: /cgi-bin/koha/koha-tmpl/errors/ ??? cgi-bin/koha/koha-tmpl!  My eyes, they burn, they burn! ;-)
20:43 slef more seriously - I don't like koha-tmpl being put under cgi-bin
20:44 slef hdl: are you getting gales and rainstorms too?
20:44 kados ok, so .htaccess is probably in there for those of us that run off of CVS
20:44 kados I'm guessing
20:45 kados in that case, cgi-bin is symlinked directly to the koha dir
20:46 slef so far, so good
20:46 hdl .htacess is only redefining error pages.
20:46 hdl to cgi-bin.
20:47 slef ok, I'll not install it anywhere
20:47 kados hdl++
20:47 hdl 23PM in France time to go to bed
20:47 kados hdl: g'night, thanks for your help this evening
20:48 slef Package does not provide a long description -  Please fill it in manually.
20:56 slef it copies files to half-sane locations
20:56 slef but it doesn't yet generate config files
20:56 slef perldoc Makefile.PL
20:56 slef if you want to see the notes
20:57 slef damn... ytpo
21:03 kados slef++
21:03 kados w00t
21:04 kados hehe
21:13 slef any luck?
21:13 kados I get a ton of [Thu Jul  5 14:18:49 2007] Makefile.PL: Warning: prerequisite PDF::API2 2 not found.
21:14 kados when i do perl Makefil.PL
21:14 slef Do you have it installed?
21:14 slef anyway, it will work anyway... it just checks for koha's prerequisites
21:15 slef that's so one day we can make cpan install stuff automatically
21:15 slef and also to help the deb and rpm packaging
21:15 slef which should be able to generate their dependencies from it
21:16 kados gotta buy this ticket for Chris to come to the US ;-)
21:18 slef sadist
21:18 chris lol
21:18 slef ;-)
08:19 [K] *** join #koha@FreeNode: kwak
08:20 [K] *** part FreeNode!#koha: kwak
08:59 chris hi hdl
09:09 toins hello chris
09:09 toins how are things in NZ ?
09:35 chris hi toins, things are cold and rainy
09:35 chris how are things in france?
09:36 toins fine... we have a pretty hot summer here..
09:38 chris we have been having tornadoes in nz over the last few days
09:39 chris[…]objectid=10450116
09:40 toins wow
09:44 chris yep, weird weather
10:16 devin greetings
10:18 chris hi devin
10:20 devin How are you chris?  I've been working on installing Koha and have a question about the 'items' table.  Could you help out?
10:22 chris i can try :)
10:24 devin OK.  I just imported all our MARC records, but they don't have any 'item type' or branch associated.  So I want to mass change them through MySQL.  I'm wondering if it's correct to just adjust the items table directly.
10:25 chris hmmm
10:25 chris if you want to be able to search on those values
10:25 chris then they will need to be in the marc_word table also
10:26 chris itemtype is on the biblioitems table, and branch (holdingrbanch and homebranch) are on the items table
10:27 chris but you will want to put entries into marc_subfield_table and marc_word also
10:27 chris it might be easier to check why it wasnt made (probably framework, or marc2koha links set up problem) and reimport them
10:28 devin Ok, it wasn't made because they didn't have those values
10:28 chris ahh
10:28 chris well it might be easier to use MARCedit
10:28 chris and add the values to the marc records then import them
10:29 devin So I should export them all to MARC, edit them, then re-import them?
10:29 devin Do you know any MARC editor not for windows?
10:30 chris yep export them from whatever system you are coming from, edit them to have the info you want, then import them into Koha
10:30 chris hmm i think you can use marcedit under mono
10:31 chris[…]it/html/index.php
10:31 chris but i havent tried .. i have an old windows laptop i use just for marcedit :)
10:31 chris if you had to do it in mysql
10:31 devin OK, thanks.  I guess I'll do that.  I was hoping it would be easier though.
10:32 chris it wouldnt be that easy, unless the marc files are pretty small .. ie there is nothing in the marc records that isnt in the koha tables (biblio,biblioitems and items)
10:33 chris if that was the case, then you could change biblioitems and items
10:33 chris and run
10:33 chris but if you had stuff in the marc records that wasnt in one of those tables, it would get wiped
10:34 devin I think there is other information, and you're making sense.
10:34 devin I have another question.  Is there a search that will return all items?
10:35 chris hmm i think if you do a keyword search on %%%% you get everything, let me just check
10:36 devin I can't get that to work
10:39 chris ahh yep, they have stopped that
10:40 chris nope since that hole has been plugged i dont think there is anymore ... i have one other idea
10:41 chris ah ha
10:41 chris go to cataloging
10:41 devin yes
10:41 chris adn try %%%% there in the title
10:43 chris or just one %
10:43 chris ah no %% or more work
10:44 devin Well it returned a few books with %% or %%%%, but not all of them for sure.
10:44 chris darn
10:44 chris guess we cant anymore
10:45 jamesa hi, i have a suggestion - publication date 1900 - 2100 ?
10:45 jamesa assuming you do not have old books !
10:46 jamesa and that info is in the marc
10:46 chris yep that would work as long as that info is there
10:46 devin And strangly it says they are in the resovior, when I thought I had none there.  When using, are the books supposed to go to the resovior?
10:47 devin None of my books have that field
10:47 jamesa oh well
10:47 chris hm nope devin reservior is from uploading marc, or from z3950 searchs
10:47 chris are you running 2.2.9?
10:48 devin 2.2.8  Strange then, how there could be books there
10:49 devin Ah, I think I know.  I tried to upload them, but it failed mysteriously.  Maybe it still uploaded a few.
10:49 jamesa phpmyadmin tells me how many rows I have in the items table if that helps
10:50 chris ok 2 secs devin
10:51 chris how are you at editing perl? :) if we comment out 2 lines in C4/
10:51 chris we should be all good
10:52 chris around line 212 is  @$value[$i] =~ s/^%//g;
10:52 chris if we make that #  @$value[$i] =~ s/^%//g;
10:52 chris then line 221 (ish) is  $word =~ s/%//g unless length($word)>4;
10:52 chris if we make that #  $word =~ s/%//g unless length($word)>4;
10:53 chris then searching on % in the keyword should get us everything
10:53 devin Let me try
10:54 chris (me was looking at the 2.2.9 file so the line numbers might be a little out)
10:58 devin no luck
10:58 devin I mean it is the same as before
10:58 chris dang
10:59 chris ahh one more line
10:59 chris 246
10:59 chris  $word =~ s/%//g unless length($word)>4;
10:59 chris again
10:59 chris #  $word =~ s/%//g unless length($word)>4;
11:01 devin Thanks that does the trick.  %% now returns all books.  % still returns nothing
11:01 chris actually i think if we uncomment that
11:01 chris then %%%%%% should work
11:02 chris cos that code says remove the first % making it %%%%% .. then if its not greater than 4 remove the other %'s
11:02 chris so as long as we have 6 or more it should get all things (% is the wildcard in mysql)
11:03 devin Yes, how unnessesary.  I don't want to have to ever explain that to my users.  But I just want it working now for cataloging, to make sure I don't miss anything
11:03 devin So are you a Koha developer?
11:04 chris well searching on everything is a nightmare for big libraries
11:04 chris you dont want 10 ppl doing that on your opacs at once
11:04 chris when you anything over 100k titles
11:04 devin Well, since you only return the first 10 or 50 records, it shouldn't be so bad
11:05 chris still has to find them all
11:05 chris specially if its a title search
11:05 devin That's the bug then.  Searching on everything is too useful to forgo
11:05 chris so it can order them by title
11:05 chris no way you can order them unless you see them all
11:06 devin how about with a mysql index?
11:06 chris searching on everything is fine for the librarians
11:06 chris it uses indexes
11:06 chris but its still has to sort everything
11:07 devin But the index is already sorted
11:07 chris yes, but you return all the rows, not just the index
11:08 chris and it has to join them with the other tables to find things like callnumber, and branch
11:09 devin Yes, but since there is already a sorted index for title, it simply loads those first 20 rows, then joins them.  It shouldn't take more resources then other sources.  There is no reason to look at the other rows
11:10 chris that might be true if you only ever look at 245a
11:10 chris for title
11:11 chris but koha allows you to define what you want title to search, so it can search subtitles and unititles as well
11:11 chris unless you simply did select * from biblio order by title .. it cant make good use of the index for sorting
11:11 devin Anyway, probably however Koha does it, it's slow.  So I can understand blocking it.  But like you just explained, using %%%%%%% will search everything anyway
11:12 chris super fast in 3.0 and zoom, slower in 2.2.x
11:13 chris more flexibility = slower, its the tradeoff
11:14 chris but with the zebra backend we get a ton more flexibility and lots faster search too
11:14 devin So when using zebra does it use MySQL at all?
11:14 chris yep just not for bibliographical data
11:14 chris still uses it for transactions
11:14 chris and patron data
11:15 devin OK, well I look forward to it.
11:15 devin BRB
11:16 chris or yep as jamesa said you can do a select * from biblio in phpmyadim :) or from the mysql commmandline
11:22 chris but now i have to go to sleep
11:22 jamesa cul
11:23 _devin goodnight

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