IRC log for #koha, 2007-02-09

All times shown according to UTC.

Time S Nick Message
12:38 cm hi kados
12:38 cm do you have a minute?
12:57 rch hi cm
12:57 paul hi cm & rch
12:57 rch kados is in NZ... it's still a bit early there
12:57 rch hey paul
13:07 cm hi guys.  :)
13:07 cm maybe one of you can answer my question.
13:08 cm i just ran, and got this error:
13:09 cm counting first
13:09 cm no recent items to update
13:09 cm finding biblionumbers
13:09 cm fetching marc and items data, updating
13:09 cm Can't call method "fetchrow" on an undefined value at /usr/local/koha/intranet/cg​i-bin/misc/ line 93.
13:10 cm i had just changed my kohaadmin password and was running this from the command line to test it,
13:10 cm so I don't know if it's related to that or not.
13:11 paul mmm... if it's your 1st error message, then no, it's not related to the kohaadmin password change
13:11 bureado I haven't used update_items, but I don't think it's related with the authentication.
13:11 bureado I think there might be an empty table somewhere.
13:11 paul you would have something like "connection refused, for XXXX@kohaadmin on <mysql_db_name>"
13:12 cm yeah.  but zebra has the password stored in all those kohalis files.  that's why I ran it.
13:13 paul Can't call method "fetchrow" is related to mySQL, NOT zebra
13:13 paul zebra errors are more weird ;-)
13:13 cm I know, on both counts.  :D
13:13 rch cm: you ran it with -all ?
13:14 cm i was just wondering why this fetchrow error would crop up.  
13:14 cm okay, now i feel silly...I forgot to add the option on the end.
13:15 cm ran it with -today and it worked.  
13:15 cm sorry to bug you all!
13:15 paul cm ++
13:15 paul your welcome.
13:15 cm yep, thank you.  :)
13:15 paul should I write "you're welcomed", our "your welcome" ???
13:16 bureado Don't feel silly. I've been fighting with the Intranet for 30 minutes trying to add a MARC framework until I found that the "OK" button in the spanish translation isn't type="submit" :(
13:16 cm technically, it should be "you're welcome"
13:16 paul what do kados in NZ ?
13:16 paul works with katipo ?
13:17 cm bureado: yeah, koha can be humbling like that. ;)
13:21 cm i won't be getting to NZ anytime soon, but at least I'm going to Las Vegas next month.  :)
14:36 paul ok, time to leave for dinner. read you back in 2 yours for the irc meeting.
15:29 bureado In Koha 2.2.7, when you Add a biblio, why is it so slow to load the MARC tags form? Does it load information about ALL tags? I assume that, from the User's Guide. Is there a way to avoid that? How do you improve the performance in the Add Biblio form.
15:34 waylon heya all.
15:40 kados hi all
15:40 waylon 20 minutes till meeting, ya?
15:41 kados and I think paul said he needed more time
15:41 kados we maybe need to push it back an hour
15:41 waylon thats fine.. if it is for the rest...
15:52 kados chris can't make it either, he's got a conflicting tech meeting
15:53 waylon -nods- push it back then. hey, we need chris.
15:54 hdl hi toins
15:54 hdl hi kados.
15:54 toins hello
15:54 toins hi all
15:55 hdl kados : I can be  back in an hour if every one agrees.
15:55 kados hdl: great, read you then
15:55 kados mail sent to koha-devel too
16:00 thd kados: what would an SQL version of release 3 actually mean?
16:15 slef hi all
16:16 bureado Hey
16:24 paul hello world
16:25 paul baby sleeping, wife reading book to the 2nd boy, 1st reading alone.
16:25 paul i'm ready ;-)
16:27 paul thd : a sql version of koha 3.0 would mean a version that don't need zebra.
16:27 paul it would be interesting for "small" libraries
16:27 paul (up to something like 30 000 biblios)
16:27 thd paul: I understood that much but ...
16:27 paul you want to know how much work it requires to develop it ?
16:29 thd paul: actually, yes, my point of view without any customers to support is that maintaining multiple versions is too much work for the developers
16:29 paul the idea would be to have only 1 version. Only a few things would have to be modified.
16:29 paul 2 in fact :
16:30 thd paul: but what my original question meant is that why would you not continue with 2.X if you wanted to maintain SQL?
16:30 paul because there are many many new features in 3,0 that would be a pain to backport to 2.2
16:31 paul - zebraop function : zebraop stores something to tell zebra that the biblio has to be reindexed. we could check for a systempref, and, if zebra=off, we could use a reverted index to store things in SQL. I already wrote something about this when we started investigating tools for koha 3.0
16:31 thd paul: why would anyone not want the advantages of Zebra?
16:32 waylon what exactly does Zebra do?
16:32 paul because it is hard to setup & maintain (from a user point of view)
16:33 paul waylon: when a biblio or an authority is added, we store the "raw" record (XML) in SQL. we (almost) don't have any index on it
16:33 paul but :
16:33 paul we send a message to zebra saying "hey, zebra, please index this XML for me"
16:33 paul then, when someone search in the catalogue, koha ask zebra :
16:34 paul "hey, retrieve biblios with title=XXX ..., pls"
16:34 waylon ah.. this is instead of the MARC style indexing...
16:34 paul zebra does only this, but as fast as lightning
16:34 thd paul; what about maintaining zebra is complex for the user after installation, and what users are maintaining there own?
16:34 paul thd :
16:34 paul 1- impossible to dump a zebradatabase
16:34 thd s/there/their/
16:35 paul 2- it sometimes crashes & requires full "reindexing"
16:35 paul 3- it's really hard to change anything in the index structure (and unavailable to a librarian I bet)
16:35 waylon less flexiblity... right.
16:36 paul so, if the library decides that (in UNIMARC) 502 field is now usefull, they have to activate it in Koha, THE?
16:36 paul THEN
16:36 paul going to zebra config file & update them (which is a pain)
16:36 paul THEN
16:36 paul reindexing everything
16:36 paul quite a complex things.
16:36 waylon how long does an indexing take?
16:36 paul for a library with a full time computer scientist, it's possible.
16:37 paul for a small library without, it's impossible
16:37 thd waylon: actually Zebra is perhaps more flexible for the effort required but alien to the common SQL knowledge people already have.
16:37 paul waylon: mmm... for example, for a 200 000 biblios database (like SAN-OP),
16:37 slef dagnabbit, meeting was postponed by an hour
16:37 slef only just saw that message
16:37 slef now I've aimed dinner for the wrong time :-/
16:37 paul reindexing requires around 1 hour
16:38 paul (exporting datas from SQL to iso2709 & indexing in zebra
16:38 paul )
16:38 thd paul: yes but what small libraries are actually running Koha on their own even with just SQL in version 2 already?
16:38 paul thd ???
16:38 dewey it has been said that thd is just dying to tell you but I fear that if I reveal all I will lose the ability to obtain funding for a business myself. or skeptical about that as I would have seen only changes in the DOM that provide enhanced methods of access to the document historically.
16:38 slef dewey: shut up
16:38 dewey slef: i'm not following you...
16:38 slef dewey: silence
16:38 dewey slef: huh?
16:38 thd dewey: forget it
16:38 dewey thd: I forgot it
16:38 slef dewey: mute
16:38 dewey slef: huh?
16:40 thd paul: are any small libraries maintaining their own installation of Koha now?
16:40 paul yes & no.
16:40 paul once installed & integrated in the local network, there's nothing to do.
16:41 paul for example, backups are easy to do & well known.
16:41 paul most of my customers don't have a computer geek near them & the server is always up.
16:41 thd paul: could the issues for maintainance not be automated in a script?
16:42 thd or set of scripts
16:42 paul not all i'm afraid, because zebra is like unix : it's friendly, but very picky with who it's friends are...
16:43 thd paul: do you mean it requires authentication for the server?
16:43 paul no.
16:44 paul I mean many things can't be automated because they require you to know exactly how to do them.
16:44 thd paul: what do you mean.  Zebra functions are scriptable like any other good Unix application.
16:45 paul maybe you're right and i'm not confident enough with zebra for instance.
16:45 paul but I feel that it will be harder to maintain a zebra server than a full SQL one
16:46 hdl dewey : forget thd
16:46 dewey hdl: I forgot thd
16:47 slef can someone put 'installer' under the 2.2.8 heading on[…]ndandnotes07feb07 please?
16:48 paul can't you do it yourself slef ? you don't have write access to the wiki ?
16:48 slef apparently I do
16:48 slef sorry about that
16:48 thd paul: I take it as given that Zebra is more difficult because Index Data does not believe in producing or has never been paid enough to produce full and complete documentation of the sort Ross Singer and I like.
16:48 slef there are many wikis I can't edit - I thought this was another
16:48 paul thd : indexdata produces long & large docs.
16:48 slef buh!? "This page is read only. You can view the source, but not change it. Ask your administrator if you think this is wrong."
16:49 paul the problem is that it's usually very hard to understand !
16:49 slef paul: I don't have write access to the wiki.
16:50 thd paul: I think the documentation is sufficient but it is not always as detailed and helpful as some MySQL documentation for the corresponding example.
16:50 paul hdl around ?
16:51 hdl yes
16:51 paul you speak of web installer to slef ?
16:51 hdl not yet.
16:51 hdl was wiating for a good occasion.
16:52 thd paul: do your Zebra scripts not work reliably every time?
16:52 paul thd : i'm not sure, i don't have enough experience
16:52 thd slef: what wiki page claimed you had no permission?
16:54 slef thd: (Edit page link from agenda)
16:54 thd slef: there have been some authentication/permission problems with the Koha wiki and I would appreciate a very complete bug report.
16:55 thd slef: what was the exact error message. Can you reproduce ti?
16:55 thd s/ti/it/
16:55 slef thd: yes.  Exact error was in ""s above.
16:57 thd slef: Kados had imagined it was a template change which I had introduced but I think it is something else if he has actually reverted completely.
16:58 thd slef: what browser were you using when permission was denied?
17:00 thd slef: and what cookie and JavaScript policy do you have set for that browser?
17:01 thd slef: do you know what the page is locked by another user dokuwiki message is?
17:05 thd slef: sorry to pester you about this but maybe we could resolve the problem, which I have never seen myself in my own usage, if we had more diagnostic information.  Kados said that nothing appears in the error logs.
17:05 kados hi all
17:05 paul hi kados
17:05 toins hello
17:05 kados sorry I'm late :(
17:06 paul 3mn late is not too much
17:06 paul ;-)
17:06 kados :-)
17:06 kados so I suppose we can start
17:06 paul + you're maybe still "jetlagged"
17:06 kados well, I would like to use that as an excuse
17:06 kados but I've been in NZ for two weeks no :-)
17:06 thd kados: slef just reported a permissions problem with the wiki.  We could discuss what it might be at your convenience.
17:06 kados thd: so maybe the problem is not with the template
17:07 kados slef: did you have trouble editing a page after you logged in?
17:07 slef kados: yep
17:07 thd kados: I know the template code very well but I do have some ideas for diagnosis if you want to discuss it after the meeting
17:07 kados shoot
17:07 kados thd: sure, lets do that
17:08 kados hehe
17:08 kados so I guess first a roll call is in order
17:08 kados who's here?
17:08 thd kados: maybe you had not completely reverted but we will discuss after
17:08 kados slef, thd, hdl, toins, and kados so far :-)
17:08 slef MJ Ray
17:08 kados hey rch
17:08 kados rch is Ryan Higgins, he works for LibLime :-)
17:08 paul waylon was here few minuts ago
17:09 tnb i'm here :)
17:09 paul while r*a*ch is Rachel, from katipo.
17:09 kados chris is still at a tech meeting
17:09 waylon im here
17:09 kados great, I'd say that's quorum
17:10 kados tnb is Tina Burger, also from LibLime
17:10 paul paul, hdl and toins are all from the same company too.
17:10 kados paul++ :-)
17:11 waylon must be cool, getting paid for doing koha work.
17:11 kados waylon: remind me where you're from?
17:11 paul all frenchies and probably all listening or looking for france-argentina soccer match maybe
17:11 kados ahh, cool
17:11 kados so we have an agenda
17:12 kados but I assume since slef had trouble editing maybe others didn't get their stuff added?
17:12 thd kados: you would recognise the former nick of waylon
17:12 kados anyone have anything to add to the agenda?
17:12 kados thd: what's that?
17:12 paul I don't have any problem adding what slef wanted to add
17:12 paul s/don't/didn't/
17:12 waylon Genjimoto
17:12 waylon genji...
17:12 dewey genji is waylon_'s username
17:12 waylon eh.. i abandoned it, liking to use my real name.
17:12 kados ahh, righ!
17:12 kados right even :-)
17:13 kados waylon: been a while since I've seen you, welcome back :-)
17:13 kados paul: ok, great
17:13 paul (hdl added "web installer" line too
17:13 kados so we did the introductions already :-)
17:13 paul )
17:13 paul it seems ;-)
17:13 kados who has some news? :-)
17:14 paul some business news : we are starting 3 new installs in france.
17:14 kados (/me got first introduction to rubgy and cricket here in NZ)
17:14 waylon sweet, paul!
17:14 paul 2 on public libraries & one for a high school
17:14 kados great paul!
17:14 kados paul: 3.0 installs?
17:14 paul nope. 2.2.x
17:15 kados gotcha
17:15 cm ccfls should be going live with meadville in march...
17:15 cm though we keep moving our target date.  :)
17:15 kados hi cm
17:15 waylon Good. im kinda taking on 2.2.x as a pet project.
17:15 cm hi all
17:15 kados waylon++
17:15 paul pet project ???
17:15 hdl (3.0 is in production at SAN WP but you knew.)
17:16 kados paul: it's an english idiom, means 'on the side project for fun'
17:16 waylon Ya.. when i don't have anything to do.. i pick up a bug and fix it.
17:16 kados paul: at least in american english, dunno in NZ english ;-)
17:16 paul lol
17:16 slef it's in English too
17:16 paul so, 2.2.8 ?
17:17 hdl + there was a french bug session Monda 22 January ... 108 bugs were raised.)
17:17 hdl most of them fixed.
17:17 paul hdl: 149 at the end ;-)
17:17 kados hdl++
17:17 kados wow, that's great!
17:17 waylon which version, hdl?
17:17 hdl but there are still some tricky ones with zebra.
17:17 hdl (3.0)
17:18 kados so some of you may have heard already
17:18 kados LibLime and Katipo have signed a 'heads of agreement' for LibLime to take over Katipo's Koha operation in NZ, including hiring Chris, Russ and Mason
17:19 hdl WoW.
17:19 cm indeed!
17:19 kados I'll post again for slef's benefit
17:19 kados LibLime and Katipo have signed a 'heads of agreement' for LibLime to take over Katipo's Koha operation in NZ, including hiring Chris, Russ and Mason
17:19 paul hiring chris/russ/mason full time ?
17:19 thd kados: what is a 'heads of agreement'?
17:19 kados it's quite big news for us :-)
17:19 kados paul: correct
17:19 slef thd: like a memorandum of understanding, I think
17:19 paul wow !
17:20 kados it's an agreement that will help both companies streamline our business workflow
17:20 kados katipo isn't a Koha company, they are web development company
17:20 kados and LibLime needs more capacity for Koha development and support
17:20 kados so the arrangement is good for both of us
17:20 waylon Will Katipo keep working on Koha, or totally give over to LibLine?
17:21 waylon s/line/lime/
17:21 toins waylon, good question..
17:21 kados waylon: not sure 'give over' is the right phrase, but yea, katipo won't be working on Koha any more
17:21 thd kados: what degree of difference will that likely mean for Koha development in terms of the time that chris, russ, and mason have as compared to the present?
17:22 paul LibLime Ltd NZ will be a part of LibLime US, or something else ?
17:22 waylon LibLime Ltd NZ?
17:22 kados paul: it's a subsidiary of LibLime US
17:23 kados chris and mason will have more time to devote on koha development
17:23 kados so it will be especially good for the koha project
17:23 toins great !
17:23 kados waylon: :-)
17:23 thd kados: that is understood but would you estimate the degree as compared to the time they are currently spending?
17:23 paul so they leave katipo if iiuc
17:23 kados and russ will be expanding the market in the austrialasia area
17:23 kados paul: correct
17:24 waylon iiuc?
17:24 paul if i understand correctly
17:24 waylon ah.
17:25 kados so that's probably it for news unless anyone has any other items :-)
17:25 kados or questions, etc.
17:25 kados so 2.2.8
17:25 waylon liblime got a job list?
17:26 kados waylon:
17:26 kados 2.2.8
17:26 kados I know there is at least one feature that still ahs some bugs
17:27 kados the new corporate serials module
17:27 kados it will be fixed soon though
17:27 rch has anyone tested the holidays feature in 2_2?
17:28 kados rch: was it committed to 2_2?
17:28 rch yep
17:28 kados cool
17:28 cm rch, it seems to work in dev_week.
17:28 paul rch : yep
17:28 rch mason added to 2_2
17:28 kados excellent
17:28 kados mason++
17:28 paul I have 68 commits to check on rel_2_2
17:28 kados paul++
17:29 kados paul: we also discussed doing something with templates for 2.2.8
17:29 paul (you'll say ++ when it will be done ;-) )
17:29 kados hehe
17:29 paul right
17:29 kados paul: do we want to eliminate default/css? or is it not appropriate?
17:30 paul that would be a good thing. but i'm afraid we can't "afford" it here (in France)
17:30 kados ahh, ok
17:30 hdl atm I don't favour this idea.
17:30 paul we already have too many things to do.
17:30 kados because no french translation + no stylesheets for french libraries
17:30 paul kados: ++
17:30 kados ok, no problem
17:30 hdl should be a great job to translate all the stuff.
17:30 paul s/great/huge/
17:30 kados maybe for 2.2.9 :-)
17:30 kados yea, I can understand that
17:31 kados it's a lot of work
17:31 kados I have a small feature I created recently
17:31 kados paul: you can tell me if you want me to commit it
17:31 thd we need an internationalisation model which is not necessarily template dependent
17:31 kados paul:
17:32 kados paul: see the 'save record' feature?
17:32 kados paul: allows saving record in a variety of formats
17:32 paul would be great.
17:33 kados ok, I'll put that on my list then
17:33 paul although i'm afraid DC schema will not work for UNIMARC
17:33 kados ahh, good point
17:33 kados what about MODS?
17:33 kados probably not either
17:33 paul right
17:33 waylon thats interesting. Saving via MARC frameworks?
17:33 hdl Cool. Are you using XSLT ?
17:33 kados hdl: yep :-)
17:33 hdl loc ones ?
17:33 kados hdl: I just used default LOC stylesheets
17:33 hdl :P
17:34 paul you show me the stuff, but did not commit anything yet, right ?
17:34 hdl Lucky you.
17:34 kados paul: right
17:34 kados paul: is commited to dev_week and rel_3
17:34 kados paul: but not the new version that actually works
17:34 thd paul: what do you mean by Dublin core not working with UNIMARC?
17:35 kados paul: and it is completely independent of the rest of the system so it should work fine with rel_2
17:35 hdl UNIMARC is way back to have so good standard helps.
17:35 paul i know for months that someone will have to write the XSLT for UNIMARC => DC if it does not exist
17:35 paul thd : the DC says "DC.Title" for the title.
17:35 paul the XSLT must know where is the title.
17:35 paul in MARC21, it's in 245
17:35 paul in UNIMARC, it's in 200$a
17:35 kados paul: i can hide the MODS + DC based on UNIMARC vs MARC21
17:35 kados paul: until you or someone ahs time to create a stylesheet
17:35 paul right. that was my plan too
17:36 kados cool
17:36 kados so what else for 2.2.8?
17:36 thd paul, kados: we just need a UNIMARC implementation of the XSLT transform
17:36 kados thd: yep
17:36 paul thd : yep
17:36 kados thd: you wanna work on that? ;-)
17:36 thd yes
17:36 kados actually it might not be too much work
17:37 kados taking the LOC marc21 as an example
17:37 kados thd++
17:37 paul +
17:37 paul and maybe :[…]y/dc_unimarc.html
17:37 kados cool
17:37 slef when is 2.2.8 aimed for?
17:39 paul just to point 1 important thing
17:39 paul (that I should have pointed as "news")
17:39 kados sure
17:39 slef hdl: can we get installer-NG ready for it?
17:39 paul we are waiting for our 4th boy, and he should be here for late feb/early march.
17:39 kados right
17:39 paul so in march, don't expect too many things from me
17:40 slef paul: there's a 'brown paper bag' error in 2.2.7's installer
17:40 hdl maybe.
17:40 paul brown paper bag error ???
17:40 slef barcorde not barcode
17:40 paul right slef.
17:40 paul i also fixed a CRI bug in z3950 search today
17:40 kados CRI?
17:40 paul (when searching on title)
17:40 paul critical
17:40 kados ahh
17:40 kados paul++
17:41 slef paul: mistake so embarassing that developer should wear a brown paper bag over head in shame
17:41 paul (probably BLO for you in fact ;-) )
17:41 slef aha! paul++
17:41 kados hehe
17:41 waylon paul++ ... was goingto look at that today... had my linux boxen set up, to go ZOOM.
17:41 paul slef : ok, I understand. in french : "bonnet d'ane"
17:41 slef anyone?
17:42 waylon huh? guess we've done alot of bugfixing.
17:42 paul would be better that a poorly tested 2.2.8, with new features like holidays
17:43 paul in fact, the 68 commits I have to check are related to bug for around 20 of them, and improvements/new features for around 50
17:43 kados slef: i worry we've done too much between 2.2.7 and now
17:43 slef so just 2.2.7 + paul's CRI + barcode + what else?
17:43 kados slef: to do a mini release
17:43 kados ahh, I see what you mean
17:43 slef kados: I'll branch rel_2_2_7 and backport fixes if you want
17:43 kados paul: that OK with you?
17:43 paul yep.
17:43 kados slef++ for offering
17:44 kados slef+++ when it's done ;-)
17:44 paul rch : I see you did some commit for mySQL5 fixes.
17:44 paul is 2.2 cmopliant with mySQL5 now ?
17:44 slef aye... sort of stuff that's been going on/going wrong this week, you never know  ;-)
17:44 rch haven't tested thoroughly
17:44 waylon huh? So.... I add bugfixes to rel_2_2_7, new features to rel_2_2?
17:44 rch but am running 2_2 on mysql5
17:45 slef waylon: no, add everything to rel_2_2 and email koha-devel about any blockers/CRIs for please
17:46 waylon ah. okay. so won't have the new features, that right?
17:46 kados so before we talk about rel_3_0 and the release of 3.0
17:46 paul waylon: right
17:46 slef waylon: or flag it in if you want (as that's something I'll check)
17:46 slef waylon: right... just fix the worst cockups
17:46 kados can we talk about the future of 2.2?
17:46 kados esp as it relates to the improvements that are in rel_3_0?
17:46 kados we have two options I think:
17:46 paul it's related to  SQL version of rel3 or backport improvements to rel2_2?
17:47 kados 1. backport improvements gradually from rel_3_0 to rel_2_2
17:47 kados paul: yes
17:47 kados 2. stop support on rel_2_2 and create a SQL version of rel_3_0
17:47 paul I investigated a lot this question, can I explain ?
17:47 kados paul: sure
17:48 slef 3. create a SQL version of rel_3 and /then/ stop support on rel_2_2
17:48 kados slef: yea, that's what I meant
17:48 slef 3. feature-freeze rel_2_2, create a SQL version of rel_3 and /then/ stop support on rel_2_2
17:48 kados slef++ for clarifying
17:48 paul the problem with point 1 is that rel_3_0 has been cleaned a lot by toins. So it will be a pain, to backport things.
17:49 paul the API changed in almost all .pm packages.
17:49 paul for example, adding a biblio was :
17:49 paul (3 parameters) = NEWnewbiblio(3 parameters) in 2.2
17:49 paul (2 parameters) = AddBiblio(3 parameters) in 3.0
17:49 paul the problem with the other possibility is that :
17:50 paul - it should be "easy" to store a reverted index of records.
17:50 paul i already have investigated that before we decided to go to zebra.
17:50 kados what do you mean by 'reverted index of records'?
17:51 paul we just had to improve "zebraop" to handle "indexing" of MARC records.
17:51 paul the mac_words idea
17:51 kados ahh, right
17:51 paul marc_words idea
17:51 paul the BIGGEST problem being :
17:51 paul how to SEARCH with CCL/CQL/RPN in this db
17:51 kados yea
17:51 paul I don't have the answer to the question.
17:51 kados that's tricky
17:52 paul maybe we could use only a small subset of CCL for example
17:52 paul considering that small libraries means smaller features.
17:52 paul but i'm not 100% happy with this idea.
17:52 waylon "CCL/CQL/RPN?
17:52 kados one more problem
17:52 kados is that almost all koha libraries, hundreds of them, use rel_2
17:52 slef waylon: zebra-helpful query languages
17:52 kados rel_2_2 I mean
17:53 paul waylon: CCL/CQL/RPN are the 3 languages we can use to query a zebra DB.
17:53 kados it's critical that we don't leave them hanging
17:53 kados and the process of upgrading from 2.2.x to 2.2.y works fairly well
17:53 thd paul: had you not told me that option 2 would be relatively easy before kados appeared?
17:54 kados I fear upgrading from 2.2.x to 3.0_nozebra could be difficult to implement without a long testing period
17:54 toins thd, i think so too
17:54 paul thd : no, I just spoke of the 1st part of the job.
17:54 kados toins: how long did you work on improving the API in rel_3?
17:54 paul kados arrived just before I spoke ot the 2nd pard.
17:54 kados toins: was it about two months?
17:55 toins humm... yep 2 months i think
17:55 paul kados: something like that. Maybe 3 months in fact.
17:55 thd kados: have your version 2 to 3 migrations been going any better lately?
17:55 kados thd: we've only done one of those
17:55 kados thd: and its' a real pain!
17:55 paul 2 to 3 or dev_week ?
17:55 slef the cleaned api seems miles better.  no contest to me.  option 2 and crack the problems
17:55 thd kados: you do not have enough practise :)
17:56 kados sorry, right
17:56 kados 2.2 -> dev_week
17:56 paul because we added many things to rel_3_0 to ease the process.
17:56 kados we don't have any rel_3_0 systems in production
17:56 kados just dev_week
17:56 cm yeah, please tell me dev_week -> 3_0 won't be too bad!  ;)
17:56 paul and hdl & me already tried on 4 different DB (although not in production), and it's not a pain.
17:56 kados paul: we're still testing rel_3_0
17:56 paul it's just a nightmare now ;-)
17:57 kados right
17:57 kados cm: yea, don't worry
17:57 cm good.  :)
17:57 kados cm: that shouldn't be very hard, the hard part is going to zebra in the first place
17:57 cm yes, indeed!
17:57 paul hdl : maybe it's time to show up our new surprise ?
17:57 hdl rebuildzebra you did ?
17:58 thd paul: you mean to say that 'a nightmare' is less painful than 'a pain'
17:58 thd ?
17:58 paul yep.
17:58 kados hey russ
17:58 paul no, web installer. but it's not time, wait a minut ;-)
17:58 russ hello all
17:58 kados a web installer?
17:58 hdl hi russ.
17:58 waylon hiya russ.
17:58 paul hi new liblimer.
17:58 kados paul: not just yet :-)
17:58 kados paul: April 1st if all goes smoothly :-)
17:59 paul ah, I understand, it's a joke in fact...
17:59 kados :-)
17:59 paul I almost thought it was the truth...
17:59 kados russ: the cat's out of the bat
17:59 paul libLime conquering the world !!!
17:59 kados russ: s/bat/bag/
17:59 toins hehe
17:59 kados russ: how was the cricket?
18:00 russ good fun even though the results didnt got the way we wanted
18:00 kados bummer
18:00 russ :-)
18:00 slef kados: swine
18:00 kados hehe
18:00 paul so, back to 2.2.7/8 questions ?
18:01 kados sure
18:01 slef kados: rooting used to be funny to aussies
18:02 kados hehe
18:02 kados so I guess we don't have any strong direction
18:02 kados for what to do regarding the 2.2 vs 3.0 prob
18:02 slef the cleaned api seems miles better.  no contest to me.  option 2 and crack the problems
18:02 rch (cleaned api)++
18:03 paul so, I may investigate (& write something on the wiki) my idea.
18:03 kados paul++
18:03 paul to see what kind of limits it will have.
18:03 paul and see if they are acceptable or have to be solved.
18:03 kados I'm behind a SQL version of 3.0, but we will need to make sure 2.2->3.0_nozebra upgrade is seamless
18:03 kados excellent
18:04 kados so the next and last item is 3.0 itself
18:04 thd paul: given your thoughts for option 2 would the primary record be the XML record stored as whole instead of MARC in SQL?
18:04 waylon so.. basically.. import all the SQL access/update stuff into 3.0?
18:04 waylon marc_word tables etc?
18:04 hdl thd : if you do so, how can you index ?
18:05 slef thd: can't mysql handle xml yet?
18:05 paul i'll explain my idea deeper on the wiki.
18:05 kados slef: dont think so
18:05 paul slef: I don't think either
18:05 kados slef: at least not fielded searches
18:05 kados slef: maybe full text on the whole document
18:05 kados even that I'm not sure about
18:05 kados paul++
18:05 waylon so marc_word is still the best SQL way of searching.
18:05 thd hdl: you could still have the nonmarc fields for indexing in SQL
18:06 kados so the next and last item is 3.0 itself
18:06 dewey i already had it that way, kados.
18:06 slef Beginning with MySQL 5.1.5, two functions providing basic XPath (XML Path Language) capabilities are available.
18:06 hdl thd : it is not enough
18:06 kados as everyone probably knows, we're about a year behind our original estimates for the release date :-)
18:06 thd hdl: I was referring to where the record is taken for display and editing not indexing
18:06 kados slef: ahh, so that's worth looking at
18:07 thd kados: welcome to the real world of apparent work versus actual work required :)
18:07 kados slef: esp if we switched to XPath in zebra
18:07 kados slef: I wonder how basic they are
18:07 rch xpath is much slower, yes?
18:07 rch (in zebra)
18:07 paul so, we speak of 3.0 or still 3.0_nonzebra ?
18:07 slef kados: I expect the world will be mysql 5.1 by the time koha 3.0sql is ready
18:07 slef[…]ml-functions.html
18:08 kados paul: so far 30=.0_nonzebra
18:08 kados oops
18:08 kados 3.0_nonzebra I meant
18:08 paul it seems ;-)
18:08 thd rch: XPath is much slower for indexing but should be comparably fast to no XPath after indexing
18:09 thd rch: unless someone has tests showing otherwise
18:09 kados slef: so xpath might solve part of the problem, but we still will need to re-implement one or all of the query languages (CCL, CQL, PQF/RPN) if we want a consistant search API
18:10 rch thd: yes probably just indexing
18:10 paul kados: right
18:10 kados so can we move to discussing 3.0 itself?
18:10 slef kados: aye... I think it's more probable someone develops a query language -> XPath mapping for us
18:10 slef if we're lucky ;-)
18:10 kados yea, that would rock
18:11 paul (/me starts training for the 4 voting days we will have soon ;-) )
18:11 hdl (Indexdata may have worked on that already.
18:11 kados so there's a new installer for 3.0?
18:11 paul yep...
18:11 kados hdl: added to 3.0 section ?
18:11 kados good news!
18:11 dewey good news is that search?q=callnum works now.  :)
18:11 slef I can ask a friend and see whether we can get a grant to fund a student to hack on a query language to xpath converter
18:11 waylon OS independant web installer?
18:11 paul slef: ++
18:12 paul hdl, throw the URL ;-)
18:12 hdl​gi-bin/koha/install/
18:12 hdl password and login you can get in your emila boxes.
18:12 slef waylon: there'll be a system-semi-dependent perl installer for doing the sysadmin install... then hdl's super web installer takes over for web and database
18:12 paul (you should prefill them in the template for the demo)
18:13 hdl (slef knows it)
18:13 slef (I've a problem with the perl installer... it keeps putting the CGI scripts in /usr/lib/site-perl, which isn't ideal)
18:13 mason hiya everyone
18:14 hdl So you have the link ?
18:14 tnb hey mason :)
18:14 hdl It is a web installer for all the data and datasets populating in Mysql.
18:14 slef and language selection
18:15 kados hdl: so the installer is just two steps? :-)
18:15 paul + create the DB itself
18:15 hdl It uses sqldumps user can make.
18:15 hdl 3.
18:15 hdl 1) languageselection + module verification.
18:15 hdl throws a warning to librarian if not OK.
18:16 kados cool
18:16 paul (the step 3 is : http://i12.hdlaurent.paulpoula[…]=selectframeworks and nothttp://i12.hdlaurent.paulpoula[…]ectframeworks%22)
18:16 hdl 2) looks mysqlconnection and database structure.
18:16 kados is this committed?
18:16 hdl slef told me. Had no chance to correct this.
18:16 hdl kados not yet.
18:16 hdl Still working on it.
18:16 kados it's really great!
18:17 hdl BUT
18:17 hdl kados and all ther is a BUT.
18:17 paul (on step 3, select "french" to see what it will be done for)
18:17 kados hdl: what's the but :-)
18:17 hdl Now sqldatas should be in misc/sqldata/
18:18 hdl Now sqldatas should be in misc/sql-data/(en| fr)/ <your level>
18:18 kados ahh
18:19 hdl your level beeing required/recommended  or additionals or any other name you like.
18:19 hdl It is not hardcoded.
18:19 thd paul: what  is the login for that page?
18:19 kados hdl: what is 'level'?
18:20 hdl required : for datas taht are necessary for Koha to Work.
18:20 hdl recommended : things that will highly ease the work of librarian.
18:21 hdl additionals would be any fancy framework or list for instance CD frameworks..
18:21 kados right
18:21 paul or a subset to setup a classic public library
18:21 hdl in the level directory, you have sql and text files.
18:21 paul (like patron categories, itemtypes...)
18:21 paul some authorized values
18:21 paul ...
18:22 hdl sql to import data to mysql base.
18:22 hdl and text to describe them.
18:22 hdl French language version of this page is more explicit than english atm.
18:23 hdl english I had no data to put in.
18:23 hdl I didnot know which framework to propose to persons for MARC21.
18:23 hdl (which was the good one.
18:23 hdl )
18:23 thd hdl: all I see is an authentication form.
18:24 hdl in you have login and password.
18:24 hdl kados ; same for you.
18:24 hdl Cookies must be enabled.
18:25 thd hdl: no every hidden directory on my site is open if you know where it is :)
18:25 hdl (your email box)
18:25 hdl kohaadmin
18:25 kados hdl: yep, I got it
18:26 thd hdl: well, authentication is required there
18:26 hdl Normally at the end. When install is finished.
18:26 kados so the installer looks great!
18:26 kados I'm excited about seeing the code when it's done :-)
18:26 kados great job hdl
18:26 hdl I thought about chmodding dirr to 000  and getting to
18:27 paul the other part of koha setup being setting config file & virtual host can easily be put in a .deb / .rpm I think
18:27 thd hdl: I trust that it looks great even if I cannot see for myself?
18:27 kados paul: great idea
18:28 kados slef: isn't threre already work on a .deb for 2.2.8?
18:28 paul that could be slef job + I had a french candidate from Debian to create a .deb
18:28 paul kados: right
18:28 kados there remains 'what to do with rel_3 and HEAD'
18:28 paul kados : no
18:28 kados my opinion is to delete HEAD and replace with rel_3_0 :-)
18:29 paul we havent spoke of rel_3_0 status yet !
18:29 kados paul: oops, did I jump the gun? :-)
18:29 thd :)
18:29 paul here in France, we have SAN-OP going live with 3.0
18:29 kados ahh, two items under rel_3_0 status were hdl's installer and what to do with HEAD & rel_3_0
18:30 paul but they don't use some features like acquisitions.
18:30 kados right
18:30 paul we plan to setup a 3.0 at IPT.
18:30 kados there is still a lot of testing that must be done before rel_3_0 can become 3.0 IMO
18:30 kados rch has been testing on our end
18:30 kados rch: wanna speak to that?
18:30 paul right. the question being : who works on those tests ;-)
18:31 rch i've been working mostly on dev_week
18:31 rch t/ ++
18:31 hdl slef++
18:31 kados paul: it's the classic prob with OSS library software: librarians don't want to pay for testing software :-)
18:31 slef kados: yes, but it really needs the web installer and new perl installer
18:31 paul I have librarians that don't want to pay for testing, but are OK to test if they don't pay ;-)
18:31 kados I have just resolved myself that 3.0 will be ready when it's ready
18:31 kados hehe
18:31 slef kados/paul: can we change installer for 2.2.8?
18:32 paul slef : maybe.
18:32 slef if it's ready, of course
18:32 kados right
18:32 paul what hdl is doing is not specifically related to 3.0
18:32 waylon why do we have two virtual hosts, when they coexist on one server happily?
18:32 thd rch: what has happened with the general purpose test suite Katipo was developing for company wide use?
18:32 slef waylon: dunno... would help many people to merge them IMO
18:32 kados thd: we'd have to ask russ or mason I think
18:32 rch you mean rach?
18:33 hdl (some of the modules are 3.0 specific)
18:33 toins becareful t/ directory can only test module function but not all the scripts individually
18:33 waylon slef: ive already done that..
18:33 slef toins++
18:33 kados toins: good point
18:33 thd rch: sorry,  yes I Imagined that you were rach :)
18:33 rch :)
18:33 waylon check out
18:33 waylon cardnumber: pntskoha ... password.. the usual default.
18:34 thd russ: are you still here?
18:34 rch thd: i hope liblime will be adding to the t/ dir
18:34 russ in spirit only :-)
18:35 slef ; cvs checkout koha
18:35 slef cvs [checkout aborted]: connect to failed: Connection refused
18:35 thd russ: what has happened with the general purpose test suite Katipo was developing for company wide use?
18:35 waylon actually.. password not theusual default....
18:35 waylon slef: cvs? don't have it.
18:35 slef waylon: so how do I checkout it?
18:36 waylon slef: oh.... right.. you want a download...
18:36 thd russ: chris had mentioned that a test suite was being developed at Katipo during devel week
18:36 russ we trialled a few things, but nothing really worked out
18:36 slef or just an instruction?  is it a simple 'merge the two VirtualHost'?
18:36 slef <waylon> check out
18:36 paul toins tried to work on /t, but we concluded that we could not do anything really interesting.
18:37 hdl slef : waylon wanted to say look at
18:37 paul because we can't test .pl, that are 90% of our code.
18:37 paul kados : you said that 3.0 will be release when it will be ready. what do you plan to do to have it ready ?
18:37 slef why can't we test .pl?
18:38 toins and we can't test with multiple client connected to koha
18:38 hdl what about selenium ?
18:38 toins (to discover some mod_perl specific bugs)
18:38 paul slef : because the result is a html page, that is hard to say wether it succeded or failed.
18:38 kados paul: well for one, chris will be working on Koha full time soon
18:38 waylon slef: its basically... put opac/ into the main cgi-bin/koha. put cgi-bin/koha, just the koha directory, into cgi-bin of the server.
18:38 hdl
18:39 slef paul: we could perl -c (syntax check) them maybe?
18:39 kados paul: last time we investigated rel_3_0 it wasn't as stable as dev_week
18:39 slef but I know much will have to wait until koha is configured
18:39 kados paul: but a lot has been fixed since then
18:39 hdl perl -c is a first step.
18:39 waylon slef: Determine if you can set your PERL5LIB.. if not, you'll have to do a find and xarg, to set 'use lib'
18:39 paul guys... we are speaking of 4 things at the same time, and it's quite confusing...
18:39 hdl But it is usually  OK.
18:39 waylon oh.. sorry paul..
18:40 slef paul: flame the chairman ;-)
18:40 kados hehe
18:40 kados paul: so the question was 'what will be done for rel_3_0 to be ready for 3.0', right?
18:40 paul kados, what do we speak about now ?
18:40 paul yep.
18:41 paul I see 3 differents things to work on :
18:41 paul - installer
18:41 kados as I see it we need 1. to test every component; 2. to make the install easier; 3. make migration scripts work better
18:41 paul - testing & bugfixing (if we consider we are feature freeze, which is not official)
18:41 paul - default CSS for OPAC & intranet.
18:41 paul kados : right
18:41 paul point 4 : migration
18:42 kados hehe
18:42 kados I'd say that's what needs to be done
18:42 hdl kados:  point 1 we have done to a certain extent with our day in Paris Jan 22.
18:42 slef 2. should be solved by hdl's great work and forward-porting whatever we do for 2.2.8
18:42 kados yep
18:43 hdl 3 paul worked on It.
18:43 hdl and provided good bases.
18:43 hdl That still need some work on.
18:43 kados so I will set some time for LibLime staff to do internal testing of rel_3_0 and we will post bugs to
18:43 paul (which 3 ? mine or kados one ?)
18:43 hdl kados' one
18:44 paul ok, then i'm OK.
18:44 kados we will await hdl's new installer with great anticipation :-)
18:44 paul does anyone have any suggestion for point 4 (stylesheets) ?
18:44 hdl But default css would be a great thing too.
18:44 kados doesn't san have some?
18:44 waylon suppose i could start installing rel_3_0.... can it run under windows as well as rel_2_2?
18:44 paul yep, but I think they are quite basic & could be improved.
18:45 kados owen is on maternity leave
18:45 paul maternity leave ?
18:45 kados but I could nominate him to work on it in his absense :-)
18:45 kados paul: new baby
18:45 paul a baby too ?
18:45 kados yep :-)
18:45 paul already born ?
18:45 kados yep
18:45 kados about a week ago I think
18:45 kados i was in NZ, so don't know exact date
18:45 hdl i think so
18:45 paul wow, there are many babies in koha team...
18:46 slef paul: stop assigning bugs to them
18:46 paul lol
18:46 paul when I see liblime demo opac, I think he could do a great job at designing "official" OPAC.
18:47 kados so I will talk to him about that when I return on the 15th
18:47 paul I don't expect koha 3.0 before this date :-D
18:47 slef aw
18:48 kados hehe
18:48 kados anyone have any other points to discuss?
18:48 waylon kados: any reason why we have two virtual hosts?
18:48 paul yes, a last one : do we declare feature freeze on rel_3_0 branch ?
18:48 kados waylon: lets discuss that after the meeting
18:49 paul waylon: reminder : it's 11PM here in france ;-)
18:49 rch are we still hitting rel_3 v HEAD
18:49 kados rch: good point
18:49 rch if there's a feature freeze, we need a head
18:50 paul tumer is not here, but I think branching head => tumer and rel_3_0 => head is a good point.
18:50 paul tumer is not here, but I think branching head => tumer and rel_3_0 => head is a good idea.
18:50 rch that makes sense to me
18:50 waylon Tumer?
18:50 dewey i heard Tumer was having lots of authentication problems
18:50 paul waylon: tumer is a guy from Cyprus
18:50 thd kados: why would you ever delete head?
18:51 paul thd : not delete head.
18:51 slef paul: france needs to move to english time ;-)
18:51 kados paul: yea
18:51 paul but say that tumer version is not head, but a specific one.
18:51 kados yep
18:51 paul and say rel_3_0 is the official one, so in head.
18:51 kados paul++
18:52 thd paul: Was branch head what was meant by kados?
18:52 waylon ahh.. like Debian freezes?
18:52 paul thd : I think so
18:52 thd paul: you understand English better than I do :)
18:53 hdl tumer could not commit on head for quite a long time now.
18:53 hdl But there are killer fetures in it.
18:53 paul thd : I already spoke of this with kados, so it's not my english :-)
18:53 hdl He has problems with mod_perl under Windows.
18:54 thd hdl: what is preventing him from committing?
18:54 hdl he wnated to ask some more information to kados.
18:54 hdl Maybe an auhtentication problem.
18:55 hdl on savannah
18:55 hdl or is it windows related.
18:56 hdl tumer said he still waited for us in Cyprus :P
18:56 paul (in my bedroom :-D )
18:56 kados hehe
18:56 kados so lets close the meeting
18:56 hdl So do I.
18:56 kados and I'll make sure to schedule another one soon
18:56 kados within a couple of weeks
18:57 hdl Thx
18:57 thd kados; so is it to late to discuss wiki authentication problems today?
18:57 paul I'll be here (even if baby is here)
18:57 rch perhaps more discussion of HEAD on devel list?
18:57 paul rch ++
18:57 kados thd: unfortunatly yes, today is super busy
18:57 kados thd: maybe write a mail to koha-devel? or to me privately?
18:57 waylon someone ableto tell me why we use two virtual hosts?
18:57 kados thd: I won't have time till probably fri or sat to work on it though :(
18:58 paul rch / kados i'll write something on koha-devel about tumer/head/rel_3_0 branches
18:58 paul (tomorrow morning)
18:58 thd kados: what is happening with the Copyright assignment for Koha with respect to Katipo and LibLime Ltd?
18:59 rch paul: great
18:59 paul kados : you'll write something on koha-devel about other topics ?
18:59 kados thd: info is forthcoming on that
18:59 kados paul: yes
18:59 paul ok, great
18:59 paul oh !!!!
18:59 paul I missed a VERY IMPORTANT NEWS !!!
19:00 thd kados: I need more deailed diagnostic information for the wiki problem because I have not seen it myself
19:00 paul the french NPO should be born next month.
19:00 thd slef: are you here?
19:00 toins NPO ?
19:00 paul ENSMP + sociology + me had the 1st meeting, we have signed the papers.
19:00 paul (Non Profit Organization)
19:00 toins ok
19:01 paul ENSMP should have transmitted them to governement
19:01 paul we should have the feedback in something like 1 month.
19:01 kados wow, that's great paul!
19:01 paul with the feedback, the "kohala" will be a reality.
19:01 kados w00t
19:01 paul kohala = "Koha Libre Association"
19:01 thd paul: if johnb does not do anything I nominate the French organisation to run the international association
19:02 russ great news paul
19:02 russ thd: small steps small steps
19:02 paul i'll let you know whent it will be official, of course.
19:02 thd russ: US grants are wasting away :(
19:03 paul once the association exist, we will have our 1st public meeting, with everybody that want to join the association.
19:03 paul ENSMP is very very experienced in such structures.
19:04 paul so I'm confident we made something very sure for the future
19:04 rch sounds good, paul!
19:04 paul now, I can go to bed ;-)
19:04 thd slef: are you still awake?
19:04 paul bye world
19:04 toins bye all
19:05 thd good night France
19:05 rch g'night, France
19:05 cm bye all
19:05 thd goodbye Ohio
19:06 thd slef: I am still hoping you have not gone to sleep
19:06 waylon so thats it? I can ask my two virtualhost question now?
19:06 thd waylon: yes but your audience is now much smaller
19:08 thd waylon: what are your virtual host questions?
19:08 waylon anyway... ive managed, without support from the sysadmin at all, to put koha into a userspace enviroment, with no CPAN access, no PERL5LIB access, no virtualhosts (except for the subdomain that they gave me) .. no logs (CGI:Carp is your friend) ...
19:09 waylon So.. in other words... a extremely constricted enviroment.
19:09 waylon no ScriptAlias.
19:10 waylon The question is.. why do we use two virtualhosts in the default koha?
19:11 thd waylon: one is for the OPAC which library readers use and the other is for administration which only librarians use.
19:12 rch waylon: i think it just makes sense.  two interfaces, two interfaces
19:12 chris thats not enough for most places
19:12 waylon no?
19:12 chris most places have the intranet on another ipnumber entirely
19:13 chris with firewall rules in place
19:13 chris at least ones ive been involved with do
19:14 chris not really
19:14 thd waylon: if the address of the librarian interface is maximally secure it is probably also not widely distributed as an extra measure
19:14 chris you might want ot put the intranet under https too
19:15 chris s/intranet/librarian interface/
19:15 slef thd: no. phone again.
19:15 thd slef: ping me when you are off phone
19:17 waylon what could someone do, with a intranet, without a password, to comprimise it?
19:18 thd waylon: they could attempt to guess a password for one
19:20 waylon thd: hmm.. secure passwords, not less than x characters.... adding of some password rules, like having compulsory requirement to have a few numbers.... mixed case...
19:22 rch then the sysadmin constantly gets called to reset people's passwords :)
19:22 rch people are bad with passwords.
19:23 rch always better to have more security in place.
19:23 chris waylon: there is no reason to open the librarian interface up to the whole internet
19:24 thd waylon: they could try devious means to gain access to the server.  Security does not require obscurity but it does help.  There is no reason that Koha should be a real target for a cracking attempt but that is no reason to be complacent and therefore the most visible target to some cracking system wanting to make mischief in libraries
19:25 slef thd: ping
19:25 thd waylon: storing backups in a safe place is probably more important than passwords
19:26 slef waylon: constraining the password reduces the search space for attackers... remember enigma?
19:26 thd slef: you may have missed a couple of questions I asked when you were tripping over things
19:26 thd slef: I am trying to diagnose the wiki authentication problem
19:26 waylon ah.. adding rules, means the attackers have more rules to enter into their password generators?
19:27 thd slef: what browser were you using when you had the permission denied message?
19:27 slef thd: I suspect it's browser config.  It's an iceweasel, default policy is to deny everything (and blame the french).
19:28 slef thd: I don't know what settings are needed by the wiki - could you list them on the login screen?
19:28 thd slef: so you do not accept cookies by default
19:28 waylon slef: Okay. in essense, having koha in such a constricted enviroment, as a production basis, is not good.
19:29 slef thd: no, nor execute scripts, allow new windows, load images ...
19:29 thd slef: I am not an admin of that system but I have modified dokuwiki templates to good effect in the past
19:30 waylon So.... I just put the intranet host, in another subdomain, and obscurity of the subdomain plus passwords are better than just passwords alone?
19:30 slef waylon: I have no qualms with it, if it's all that we have.  I think I'd want SSL on librarian if we can but may still be neater to merge the VirtualHost sections and SSLRequireSSL the librarian interface.
19:31 thd slef: I noticed to my disappointment that dokuwiki uses some buggy javaScript in the editor
19:31 waylon slef:who you setting up with koha?
19:32 slef waylon: obscurity of the subdomain is probably worse than having both on one host... if someone discovers the hostname for the librarian pages, http://librarianhostname/ redirects them to the admin login... if it's on the same hostname as the OPAC, it's less obvious IMO
19:32 slef waylon: some academics
19:33 chris it wasnt obscurity i was suggesting, just a different ip range for a start, one not externally routed
19:33 slef that has reason
19:34 waylon_ btw... you don't even need any virtualhost entries, if you want koha running from the main hostname.
19:34 thd slef: my suspicion is that the wiki authentication problems others have had on the wiki are browser, JavaScript, and cookie configuration specific problems.  I have made many posts to a small set of pages without any problem so I have been left out of the fun.
19:35 slef waylon_: just a SetEnv PERL5LIB in .htaccess files?
19:36 waylon_ slef: Dont even need that. A find | xarg line can put use lib '<path' statements into all your pl pm files.
19:36 slef waylon_: SSLRequireSSL in .htaccess... as long as your web host gives you a modssl server configured by default.
19:37 slef waylon_: modding all the files seems a little messy.
19:38 waylon_ as far as moddile allthe files.. not messy. One, well.. two lines. Doesn't take long to process, on my p3 box. 192 mb ram.
19:39 waylon_ 450mhz i think...
19:45 waylon if you assume that all p* files have use strict; in them.. then this line works.
19:46 waylon find -name "*.p*" | xargs perl -pi -e "s/(use strict\;)/use strict\;\nuse lib \'<pathtoC4>'\;\n/gi";
19:46 waylon or is that "*.p?"..
19:51 slef asleep at the prompt, sorry
19:51 slef bbl
19:51 waylon eh.. night then, slef.
20:45 tnb chris: you still around?
20:50 chris yep
22:58 tnb chris: ?
22:58 chris yo
22:58 tnb oh good :)
22:58 tnb hi :)
22:58 tnb I need to get ahold of josh ASAP... you seen him?
22:58 tnb he's not answering his phone
22:59 chris hmmm ill ask russ
22:59 tnb thanks, sorry for the bother
22:59 chris no worries
23:00 chris he's probably in starbucks :)
23:00 chris ahh no, russ tells me he's on the bus to my house
23:01 tnb ok, thanks :)
23:01 chris so when he gets here ill let him know you are after him
23:02 tnb ok, thanks
23:02 tnb :)

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